Khuda Ke Liye (In the Name of God) - A Pakistani movie by Shoaib Mansoor

[batter]

praying is one of the 5 pillars of islam you dumbo, its meantioned many times in the quraan.

i guess that just proves your knoldage on islam,

I know.

What Quran doesn't mention is how to pray. i.e what to recite in your prayer , when to go into sajdah and when to go into rukoh etc

So if you don't follow sunnah and hadith and only take guidance from quran ,you can't even say your prayers in a proper manner.

 

[batter]

I disagree with this, see my post above yours.

Except Ghazali (who only allows certain musical instruments) almost all the other scholars are agreed that music is forbidden in Islam.

All the 4 legal schools are agreed on it.

Imam Abu Hanifa, malik, Shafi'i, Ibn Hanbal, Abu yusuf , Tabari, Ibn kathir, Sufyan Thwari, Abdullah bin Malik , Suyuti, Ibn Hajar,etc etc..........the list is too long


2-3 ulema against thousnads of other ulemas

It is not even a contest

 

[suhaib]

I know.

What Quran doesn't mention is how to pray. i.e what to recite in your prayer , when to go into sajdah and when to go into rukoh etc

So if you don't follow sunnah and hadith and only take guidance from quran ,you can't even say your prayers in a proper manner.

it mentions you must pray 5 times a day, alot of times and that is enough.
if it says it then it must be done,

now tell me where in the quraan has it mentioned about music,

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

You need some education in Islamic history.

Starting from Prophet's own son Hazrat ibrahim on to several umayyad caliphs and almost all of the abbasid caliphs.

To name the most famous

1) Marwan II (744-750) son of a kurdish concubine

2) Abu Jafar Al- Mansur (754-775) son of a berber concubine

3) The famous Harun al Rashid (786-809) son of Khayzuran , a yemenite concubine

4) Mamun (813-833) son of Harun and a persian concubine named Marajil

Infact 35 of the 37 Abbasid Caliphs were sons of concubines ...the only exceptions being the first abbasid caliph Al Saffah and the 5th caliph Al Amin

Similarly most of the ottoman sultans were sons of concubines. Infact none of the ottoman sultans of fifteenth and sixteenth century ever married except Suleyman the magnificent .They all had huge number of concubines in ther harems.

next time, you want a girlfriend: go upto a girl and ask her if she wants to be your concubine and push out your children so that they can become Ottoman sultans one day.

if she says no, beat her until she changes her mind. because nothing turns a woman on like getting beaten up and becoming someone's concubine. beat her even harder if she tries to listen to music.

way to go dumbass. you're onto a winner here.

 

[batter]

next time, you want a girlfriend: go upto a girl and ask her if she wants to be your concubine and push out your children so that they can become Ottoman sultans one day.

if she says no, beat her until she changes her mind. because nothing turns a woman on like getting beaten up and becoming someone's concubine. beat her even harder if she tries to listen to music.

way to go dumbass. you're onto a winner here.

What non sense

 

[batter]

it mentions you must pray 5 times a day, alot of times and that is enough.
if it says it then it must be done,

now tell me where in the quraan has it mentioned about music,

But HOW would you do it. That is the big question

Quran alone can't guide you here.

You need sunnah and hadith

 

[mumtaz]

Except Ghazali (who only allows certain musical instruments) almost all the other scholars are agreed that music is forbidden in Islam.

All the 4 legal schools are agreed on it.

Imam Abu Hanifa, malik, Shafi'i, Ibn Hanbal, Abu yusuf , Tabari, Ibn kathir, Sufyan Thwari, Abdullah bin Malik , Suyuti, Ibn Hajar,etc etc..........the list is too long


2-3 ulema against thousnads of other ulemas

It is not even a contest

Why cant you get it into your head that I am not discussing with you whether music is allowed or not. If you want to do that, open another thread. All I am saying is:

1) A significant minority of great religious scholars think that music in itself is allowed although sometimes when its accompanied with vulgarity makes it haram.

2) Shoaib Mansoor has based the movie on the opinion of this significant minority of scholars specifically Javed Ghamidi and not on any personal opinion.

Now tell me which of the two points you diasagree with. If you want to dispute "significant minority", I can give you at least 20 names and then to dispute that you would have to give me at least 2000 names of those well-known scholars who think that music is not allowed. Are you prepared to do that?

 

[Zechariah]

You need sunnah and hadith

So Sunnah and Hadith are two different things now!

Sunnah literally means ways of the Prophet(PBUH) and we get that way only through few hadiths, not the whole collection, which is nothing but a mere of lies against the prophet which our so called scholars have approved. Hadiths should be used a reference but the ultimate source of guidance is te Quran and only Quran.

 

[suhaib]

But HOW would you do it. That is the big question

Quran alone can't guide you here.

You need sunnah and hadith

the quraan says it, thats the main thing. if it says it then you should find out how to perform it.

about music it doesnt say a single word.

 

[suhaib]

Some Muslims believe that Music is prohibited/sinful in Islam. According to Islam: Music that leads to sinful acts such as drugs, sex, violence, etc... is absolutely sinful in Islam. But otherwise, how would it be sinful when Allah Almighty Himself allowed it to Prophet David peace be upon him?

Narrated Abu Musa: "That the Prophet said to him 'O Abu Musa! You have been given one of the musical wind-instruments of the family of David.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues of the Qur'an, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 568)"

Did Allah Almighty or Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him prohibit music?

There is not a single Noble Verse in the Noble Quran that prohibits music. In fact, music and songs are allowed in the Noble Quran as we saw above. Some Muslims however claim that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did prohibit music. Well, the section below actually proves the otherwise from the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad himself.

Muslims must also remember that when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him reached the Holy City of Madina from the Holy City of Mecca with his best friend Abu Bakr; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him, the Muslims played music and sang the famous Islamic song "Talaa El-Badru Alayna" which means "The full moon had come upon us."

The music that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him prohibited was the one that the infidels used to play which involved sexual activities by the women. It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom, and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him wanted to prevent Muslims to be anywhere near that type of music, because it was a sinful music; a music that led to sinful activities.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him allowed music:

Now if music and musical instruments are so bad, why did the Prophet (pbuh) tell Abu Bakr "Let the show go on!"?

The "music prohibition" is yet another instance in which the Salafy have committed bidah by innovating prohibitions NOT FOUND IN THE QURAN!

The "music prohibition" is a fiction, that finds scant support even in the various ahadith collections.

If the Salafys want to abstain from music, they are free to do so. But don't tell the rest of Islam that the "music prohibition" is THE WORD OF ALLAH! It Isn't!

Conclusion:

Music is not prohibited in Islam. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran allowed music and inspired it upon David peace be upon him. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him didn't prohibit music unless it was used for sinful activities. Otherwise, music is allowed. It's been proven by science that music relaxes the mind and helps the person to gain energy and refresh himself. Most production plants in the industrial countries allow their workers to play music while working to helping them gain more energy.

Allah Almighty created music so we can use it in a positive and Islamic way to help us ease some of the burden of life from us. Even animals enjoy good music. In the Middle East, some people have their horses dance beautiful dances on music in many of the rural areas while they're celebrating.

My notes on music and music videos that use foul language and sinful acts:

As I said above, music that leads to sinful acts such as drugs, sex, violence, etc... is absolutely sinful in Islam. But sometimes the song is still very nice in rhythm and yet still contains some bad things in it. Personally, I believe that if the words in the song are ignored and the person only enjoys the music and rhythm of the song and it doesn't cause him to do any of the evil things that I mentioned, then in my opinion (only) that song and music is lawful.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_351_400/is_music_prohibited_in_islam.htm

 

[batter]

Some Muslims believe that Music is prohibited/sinful in Islam. According to Islam: Music that leads to sinful acts such as drugs, sex, violence, etc... is absolutely sinful in Islam. But otherwise, how would it be sinful when Allah Almighty Himself allowed it to Prophet David peace be upon him?

Narrated Abu Musa: "That the Prophet said to him 'O Abu Musa! You have been given one of the musical wind-instruments of the family of David.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues of the Qur'an, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 568)"

Did Allah Almighty or Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him prohibit music?

There is not a single Noble Verse in the Noble Quran that prohibits music. In fact, music and songs are allowed in the Noble Quran as we saw above. Some Muslims however claim that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did prohibit music. Well, the section below actually proves the otherwise from the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad himself.

Muslims must also remember that when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him reached the Holy City of Madina from the Holy City of Mecca with his best friend Abu Bakr; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him, the Muslims played music and sang the famous Islamic song "Talaa El-Badru Alayna" which means "The full moon had come upon us."

The music that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him prohibited was the one that the infidels used to play which involved sexual activities by the women. It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom, and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him wanted to prevent Muslims to be anywhere near that type of music, because it was a sinful music; a music that led to sinful activities.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him allowed music:

Now if music and musical instruments are so bad, why did the Prophet (pbuh) tell Abu Bakr "Let the show go on!"?

The "music prohibition" is yet another instance in which the Salafy have committed bidah by innovating prohibitions NOT FOUND IN THE QURAN!

The "music prohibition" is a fiction, that finds scant support even in the various ahadith collections.

If the Salafys want to abstain from music, they are free to do so. But don't tell the rest of Islam that the "music prohibition" is THE WORD OF ALLAH! It Isn't!

Conclusion:

Music is not prohibited in Islam. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran allowed music and inspired it upon David peace be upon him. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him didn't prohibit music unless it was used for sinful activities. Otherwise, music is allowed. It's been proven by science that music relaxes the mind and helps the person to gain energy and refresh himself. Most production plants in the industrial countries allow their workers to play music while working to helping them gain more energy.

Allah Almighty created music so we can use it in a positive and Islamic way to help us ease some of the burden of life from us. Even animals enjoy good music. In the Middle East, some people have their horses dance beautiful dances on music in many of the rural areas while they're celebrating.

My notes on music and music videos that use foul language and sinful acts:

As I said above, music that leads to sinful acts such as drugs, sex, violence, etc... is absolutely sinful in Islam. But sometimes the song is still very nice in rhythm and yet still contains some bad things in it. Personally, I believe that if the words in the song are ignored and the person only enjoys the music and rhythm of the song and it doesn't cause him to do any of the evil things that I mentioned, then in my opinion (only) that song and music is lawful.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_351_400/is_music_prohibited_in_islam.htm

The girls were playing duff.

As i said before this is the only musical instrument allowed in Islam and all scholars are agreed upon it

 

[Zechariah]

The point is if my I listen to music sitting in my room, minding my own business, am not committing any adultery or doing any sin, I am sitting and lisening to my music in my free time, I have not let it stray me from the worship of Allah, I read my Hole Book very often, I do thigns that God wants me to do then then how am I doing a sin?

There is no big deal about it. It's haram if you are doing haram with it.

 

[batter]

the quraan says it, thats the main thing. if it says it then you should find out how to perform it.

about music it doesnt say a single word.

U keep avoiding my question.

How will you find it.

You won't be able to do it without Sunnah

 

[deviously~fading~away]

The girls were playing duff.

As i said before this is the only musical instrument allowed in Islam and all scholars are agreed upon it

Because at that time they didn't have electric quitars...

 

[suhaib]

The girls were playing duff.

As i said before this is the only musical instrument allowed in Islam and all scholars are agreed upon it

they were obviously playing the instruments they had in those times.

how do you expect them to be playing guitars and smacking drums when they didnt exist.

you seem to be a very clever bloke, keep it up.

 

[Wazeeri]

He is an idiot then. In his dancing days, he must have seen An Kahi, Tanhaiyaan, Alf Bravo Charlie etc and there is never any 'dawah' in Shoaib Mansoor's productions, unimaginable. Either he is lying or he is an idiot, take your pick!

In his interview he said that he spoke to Shoaib mansoor and it gave him the impression that the movie would present the true islam to the world. He saw it as a means of Dawah and agreed.

He later retracted because he feallt that he would have to compromise a lot of his religion for the film. Not because of death threats which some of our secular bratharan like to harp on about.

 

[Wazeeri]

this film has really rattled wazeeris and tg khan's cage...am looking forward to seeing it

It's not the film but Shoaib mansoor calling JJ confused just because he believes most music is against islam, which rattled our cage.

I think a guy who bases his fatwas on what he feels should be in islam rather than studying islam and coming to a conclusion, is the one who warrants the title of confused.

 

[suhaib]

U keep avoiding my question.

How will you find it.

You won't be able to do it without Sunnah

im not avoiding your question, i have allready told you if the quraan mentions it you should do it, on how to perform it, you should find out yourself.
sunnah guides you on how to do things
quraan tells you what to do and what not to do.

 

[Zechariah]

Anyways, back to the movie.

People should watch it at all costs. If the movie is infact controversial [ i have not seen it yet] then we must watch it so we atlesat have some knowledge about it. There is no need to strick your head in the ground like an ostrich because a Mullah said so. Plus today's Mullahs are against anything that challnges them even if its right. Anyone who doesnt follow the Mullahs is a kafir, and we need to put these mullahs in thier place and take Islam back from them and make every effort to bring forth the true form of it.

Watch the movie. You all can watch bollywood movies so why not this one, cuz a mullah said so, come on.

 

[Wazeeri]

Why cant you get it into your head that I am not discussing with you whether music is allowed or not. If you want to do that, open another thread. All I am saying is:

1) A significant minority of great religious scholars think that music in itself is allowed although sometimes when its accompanied with vulgarity makes it haram.

2) Shoaib Mansoor has based the movie on the opinion of this significant minority of scholars specifically Javed Ghamidi and not on any personal opinion.

Mumtaz

First of all Ghamidi is not considered a scholar by most Islamic scholars. He has disagreed with every teacher he has studied under which means he has brought about his own version of islam. Biggest apologist if you can find one.

2ndally you are absolutely right and so is Shoaib Mansoor in saying and beleiving that there is a minority interpretation of islam which allows all forms of music, a very small minority as it maybe but it allows music.

But if Shoaib Mansoor has the right to call Junaid Jamshed confused for accepting the majority view than why should Shoaib mansoor be spared for accepting the minority point of view?

Shoaib mansoor started off with the conclusion that music is allowed and conveniently found scholars who agreed with him. His approach to islam is confused and therefore his imbecility should be given due credit alongside his cinematic genius.

 

[the Great Khan]

strange the conversation starts from a movie and its subject and directors opinion and has now gone to concubines?? fascinating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by foojam
this film has really rattled wazeeris and tg khan's cage...am looking forward to seeing it


It's not the film but Shoaib mansoor calling JJ confused just because he believes most music is against islam, which rattled our cage.

I think a guy who bases his fatwas on what he feels should be in islam rather than studying islam and coming to a conclusion, is the one who warrants the title of confused.

exactly...what rattled my cage is the fact that shoaib mansoor is of the opinion that anyone who once followed a secular lifestyle but rejected it for a austere Islamic one must be confused...I dont think its right for him to base a whole film on this issue...I think he's wrong to say the things he said in that interview...I still havent watched the film and if you read my posts properly will understand the point im making...it seems anyone who disagrees with the prevailing view of this film is deemed a mullah terrorist etc etc....those who are religiously supporting Mansoor need to accept that not everyone will like the film...and those that say one should reserve judgment until theyve seen the film are right also, but you can still form an opinion by reading a review before they see a film...or whats the point of a critic?

 

[mumtaz]

Mumtaz

First of all Ghamidi is not considered a scholar by most Islamic scholars. He has disagreed with every teacher he has studied under which means he has brought about his own version of islam. Biggest apologist if you can find one.

2ndally you are absolutely right and so is Shoaib Mansoor in saying and beleiving that there is a minority interpretation of islam which allows all forms of music, a very small minority as it maybe but it allows music.

But if Shoaib Mansoor has the right to call Junaid Jamshed confused for accepting the majority view than why should Shoaib mansoor be spared for accepting the minority point of view?

Shoaib mansoor started off with the conclusion that music is allowed and conveniently found scholars who agreed with him. His approach to islam is confused and therefore his imbecility should be given due credit alongside his cinematic genius.

Yeah I have heard those scholars who instead of responding to Ghamidi's arguments one by one just try to discredit him by saying he is not a scholar. Ghamidi, on the other hand, has never discredited anyone while patiently giving his POV with arguments strictly from the Quran and Sunnah. IMO, the biggest contribution that Ghamidi has made is his approach that except Allah and the Prophet, each and every person can be questioned, no one's judgement (Ijtihad) is beyond question, otherwise you are giving them the status of Prophets. So when these so-called scholars say that he has disagreed with his teachers, he has done that under this very approach. He has singlehandedly revived Islamic scholarship and challenged those so-called scholars who just keep parroting what they learn from their teachers and have given rise to sectarian Islam by doing so.

That was just to set the record straight about Ghamidi. If you want to discuss him more, we can do that in another thread provided you stick to arguments and his opinions and dont resort to any name-calling or character assassination.

Shoaib Mansoor shouldnt have called JJ confused although it may have been prompted in part by JJ flip-flopping between working in the movie and not working. He might have felt that he had the right to do so based on him being JJ's mentor for over 16 years.

You say that Shoaib Mansoor started off with the conclusion that music is allowed and then found the arguments but I ask dont we all do that. We all do it all the time. How many of us are true students whose only aim is to find the truth. I will give you one very glaring example. We were born Muslims, how many of us ever considered that Islam might be a false religion, we always try to find arguments in favour of Islam and dont even give a second thought to arguments against Islam. Go even further back, we believe in Allah, how many of us have ever considered the possibility that there might be no God, we are forever trying to find arguments in favour of existence of God and never consider the arguments against such a possibility.

By nature, humans are not unprejudiced. We are biased and can rarely tolerate a view other than our own always looking for whatever justifications we can find. This board is one prime example, I have actually never seen anyone conceding his point, putting his hands up and saying, hey I was wrong, your arguments are better. Why then, do you expect, Shoaib Mansoor, of all people, to study Islam with an open mind and come to a conclusion based solely on the basis of arguments. If he can do that, he might as well become an Islamic scholar.

 

[161]

eh ??

i thought this thread was supposed to be about some movie ?

anyway how can i get a hold of this movie in the US ?

 

[zaf1986]

You need some education in Islamic history.

Says the jahil-e-mutlaq of PP

Starting from Prophet's own son Hazrat ibrahim

Don't you dare give me tha ********. His mother Mariya was a wife of the Prophet and the daughter of the king of Qibtiya. Take your own advice and read some history.

To name the most famous

1) Marwan II (744-750) son of a kurdish concubine

2) Abu Jafar Al- Mansur (754-775) son of a berber concubine

3) The famous Harun al Rashid (786-809) son of Khayzuran , a yemenite concubine

4) Mamun (813-833) son of Harun and a persian concubine named Marajil

Infact 35 of the 37 Abbasid Caliphs were sons of concubines ...the only exceptions being the first abbasid caliph Al Saffah and the 5th caliph Al Amin

Similarly most of the ottoman sultans were sons of concubines. Infact none of the ottoman sultans of fifteenth and sixteenth century ever married except Suleyman the magnificent .They all had huge number of concubines in ther harems.

Ah so you name me the sharaabi and zaani caliphs as models of your Islam? I'll be a kafir, thanks.

 

[kablooee87]

eh ??

i thought this thread was supposed to be about some movie ?

anyway how can i get a hold of this movie in the US ?

at this point, you can't. The movie has so far only been released in Pakistan (with announcement of release in the UK but nothing for the US) and as far as I know, a dvd rip of the film doesn't yet exist. I also haven't yet seen any pirated copy of the movie leaking online. For now, just bide your time, it'll become available soon (hopefully in some sort of official capacity so we don't have to resort to piracy).

I'm all for the "support Pakistani cinema" bit but I'm not planning on going to Pakistan or the UK or anything in the foreseeable future. If they movie isn't going to be released in Canada (doesn't have to be now, I don't mind waiting) then I can safely assume that I have no choice but to "acquire" a copy.

 

[161]

at this point, you can't. The movie has so far only been released in Pakistan (with announcement of release in the UK but nothing for the US) and as far as I know, a dvd rip of the film doesn't yet exist. I also haven't yet seen any pirated copy of the movie leaking online. For now, just bide your time, it'll become available soon (hopefully in some sort of official capacity so we don't have to resort to piracy).

ehhh right ... this is the one time i wont resort to piracy .. i'd like to get my hands on it in a legal manner and support of the makers of this movie because it seems to be a original pakistani movie and not some bollywood style garbage.

 

[Asim2Good]

only pakistani community can make arguments out of no where. and then we complain why our conutry is in this condition

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

another rubbish petition thrown out.

Senior liar MD Tahir should try watching an Indian movie next to determine if it is against Islamic values. dumbass.

-----------------------------

LHC dismisses plea against Khuda Kay Liye

link: http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=67306

By our correspondent

LAHORE: The Lahore High Court on Monday dismissed a petition challenging the screening of the film “Khuda Kay Liye” which, according to the petitioner, was against Islamic values.

Senior lawyer MD Tahir had filed the petition on Aug 4, pleading that the screening of the film was severely injuring feelings of the Muslims and that on the same basis the Indian government had not allowed its screening in India.

He claimed that the movie was a conspiracy to deteriorate law and order in Pakistan, and added that it was full of “objectionable” material, which would incite extremism in the country. The petitioner submitted that Indian actor Naseerud Din Shah stated in the movie stated that music was permitted in Islam and Hazrat Dawood (AS) was a good singer, and in another act he stated that Islam permitted marriage of a Muslim girl with a Christian man.

Tahir further submitted that in the film, a Muslim religious scholar was rudely called a mullah and a message was conveyed that Taliban were not against non-Muslims but they were killing only Muslims. The petitioner said Pakistanis could not accept anything against Islam. He submitted that the film was against the teachings of Islam.

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

only pakistani community can make arguments out of no where. and then we complain why our conutry is in this condition

well what do you think is going to happen when a guy argues that having girlfriends and changing them every 5-6 months is fine because the Ottoman kings had concubines. but he thinks that the movie should be banned because it says music is not haram.

so, he thinks fornication is fine but music is the mother of all sins. I don't know about you but I think that's a little messed up.

 

[Asim2Good]

LHC dismisses plea against Khuda Kay Liye

link: http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=67306

By our correspondent

LAHORE:
Senior lawyer MD Tahir had filed the petition on Aug 4, pleading that the screening of the film was severely injuring feelings of the Muslims and that on the same basis the Indian goverment had not allowes its screening in India

2 points :
A: I think movie so far been released in Paksitan and not in any other country yet.
2 : don't think Pakistani movie is allowed in cinema in India jsut as Indian movie is not allowed in Paksitani cinema. and DVD hasn't come out yet to be banned.

so I dunno where this guy MD Tahir coming from

 

[pakistani_banda]

another rubbish petition thrown out.

Senior liar MD Tahir should try watching an Indian movie next to determine if it is against Islamic values. dumbass.

-----------------------------

LHC dismisses plea against Khuda Kay Liye

link: http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=67306

By our correspondent

LAHORE: The Lahore High Court on Monday dismissed a petition challenging the screening of the film “Khuda Kay Liye” which, according to the petitioner, was against Islamic values.

Senior lawyer MD Tahir had filed the petition on Aug 4, pleading that the screening of the film was severely injuring feelings of the Muslims and that on the same basis the Indian government had not allowed its screening in India.

He claimed that the movie was a conspiracy to deteriorate law and order in Pakistan, and added that it was full of “objectionable” material, which would incite extremism in the country. The petitioner submitted that Indian actor Naseerud Din Shah stated in the movie stated that music was permitted in Islam and Hazrat Dawood (AS) was a good singer, and in another act he stated that Islam permitted marriage of a Muslim girl with a Christian man.

Tahir further submitted that in the film, a Muslim religious scholar was rudely called a mullah and a message was conveyed that Taliban were not against non-Muslims but they were killing only Muslims. The petitioner said Pakistanis could not accept anything against Islam. He submitted that the film was against the teachings of Islam.

since when was mullah a rude word. and wat more extremism would this film incite.
hello mr tahir, there is already extremism which is alone destroying the muslims and pakistan. the movie showed taliban fighting against the northern alliance (as far as i remember), and shoaib has shown that,and there is a scene where sarmad kills a man while he defends himself, but just before dying the man recites the kalma, and then sarmad is shocked to wat he has done. shoaib is trying to show that we r all muslims and we r all brothers and that we should not kill eachother,or infact anybody else.

 

[batter]

Says the jahil-e-mutlaq of PP


Don't you dare give me tha ********. His mother Mariya was a wife of the Prophet and the daughter of the king of Qibtiya. Take your own advice and read some history.

What non sense.

You don't have an iota of knowledge about islamic history and make such stupid claims here.

FYI There is complete consensus in Islam that hazrat Mariya Qubtiya (RA) was a concubine of the prophet (PBUH) .There is nothing bad in it as concubinage is allowed according to holy Quran.

I challenge you to refute it .

 

[batter]

well what do you think is going to happen when a guy argues that having girlfriends and changing them every 5-6 months is fine because the Ottoman kings had concubines. but he thinks that the movie should be banned because it says music is not haram.

so, he thinks fornication is fine but music is the mother of all sins. I don't know about you but I think that's a little messed up.

Tarar, trying to be extra clever..

Don't try to put words in my mouth.

I have always admitted that having girlfriends is not allowed in islam.

 

[Joseph K.]

What non sense.

You don't have an iota of knowledge about islamic history and make such stupid claims here.

FYI There is complete consensus in Islam that hazrat Mariya Qubtiya (RA) was a concubine of the prophet (PBUH) .There is nothing bad in it as concubinage is allowed according to holy Quran.

I challenge you to refute it .

Tarar, trying to be extra clever..

Don't try to put words in my mouth.

I have always admitted that having girlfriends is not allowed in islam.

Are you really that confused (read stupid) or are you being silly so that this thread could be locked? You come across as a highly unintelligent person.

 

[batter]

Are you really that confused (read stupid) or are you being silly so that this thread could be locked? You come across as a highly unintelligent person.

People like you don't read Holy quran and then come here with pre concieved notions.

As for concubinage, check Surah noor and surah Mominoon of quran. You will get the relevant verses there.

Similarly check the authentic hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim.A number of Hadith deal with concubinage.


As far as i know concubinage is a issue on which every islamic scholar is agreed that it is allowed in islam.

Girlfriends are a different matter. There used to be no concept of girls mixing freely with boys in those times and so there is no validation of it in islam

 

[Joseph K.]

People like you don't read Holy quran and then come here with pre concieved notions.

As for concubinage, check Surah noor and surah Mominoon of quran. You will get the relevant verses there.

Similarly check the authentic hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim.A number of Hadith deal with concubinage.


As far as i know concubinage is a issue on which every islamic scholar is agreed that it is allowed in islam.

Girlfriends are a different matter. There used to be no concept of girls mixing freely with boys in those times and so there is no validation of it in islam

Since there is no mention of girlfriends in Qura'an or Hadith, you will automatically presume that you are forbidden whereas concubines are allowed in Quraan, they are OK? What a sheep. It's people like you with their literal, rigid understanding of the scriptures who have always turned the good message into a harmful one and who destroy religions. What's the difference between a concubine and a girlfriend?

 

[zaf1986]

What non sense.

You don't have an iota of knowledge about islamic history and make such stupid claims here.

FYI There is complete consensus in Islam that hazrat Mariya Qubtiya (RA) was a concubine of the prophet (PBUH) .There is nothing bad in it as concubinage is allowed according to holy Quran.

I challenge you to refute it .

Not only are you ignorant in history, but you are ignorant in philosophy as well. I didn't come in here claiming I had a million letters after my name - you did.

You made the claim - you bring the proof. Thats the case in the court of law, in an argument, in a philosophical discussion. Mariya Qibtiya was the daughter of the KING of Qibtiya, which makes her a princess, not a slave. It is saddening to see the jealousy of the Muslims against the wife of the Prophet who bore him a child.

 

[Joseph K.]

There are some resident Maulvis on this forum who should refute or clarify this situation about Hazrat Maria Qibtia RAA.

 

[batter]

Not only are you ignorant in history, but you are ignorant in philosophy as well. I didn't come in here claiming I had a million letters after my name - you did.

You made the claim - you bring the proof. Thats the case in the court of law, in an argument, in a philosophical discussion. Mariya Qibtiya was the daughter of the KING of Qibtiya, which makes her a princess, not a slave. It is saddening to see the jealousy of the Muslims against the wife of the Prophet who bore him a child.

I have read enough of my history to know facts.

Egypt at the time of rise of Islam wasn't an independent kingdom. It was a province of Byzantine empire ruled by emperor Heraclius (610-641). As there was no kingdom so there can't be any king of Egypt at that time.

Maria Qibtiya (RA) was a coptic slave who alongwith her sister was sent to Prophet by the governor of Egypt . The prophet kept her for himself while he gave her sister to Hazrat Hasaan (RA) who was one of the Ansar.

About her legal status (that she was a slave) there is no doubt in any of the history books.

And next time try to learn some Islamic history before arguing with me.

 

[Joseph K.]

I have read enough of my history to know facts.

Egypt at the time of rise of Islam wasn't an independent kingdom. It was a province of Byzantine empire ruled by emperor Heraclius (610-641). As there was no kingdom so there can't be any king of Egypt at that time.

Maria Qibtiya (RA) was a coptic slave who alongwith her sister was sent to Prophet by the governor of Egypt . The prophet kept her for himself while he gave her sister to Hazrat Hasaan (RA) who was one of the Ansar.

About her legal status (that she was a slave) there is no doubt in any of the history books.

And next time try to learn some Islamic history before arguing with me.

If you had read 'enough' Islamic history, you would have realised that this is a controversial issue and according to many historians she was given her freedom and then married by the prophet. She was certainly not a free woman, a present from the archbishop of Alexandria, still according to many accounts the prophet married her. She is always called 'umm ul mominin', a title that she shares with other wives of the prophet. Why give only one side of a historical controversy just to prove your point. There are certain things that happen to be bigger than you and your ego. Show some consideration.

 

[batter]

If you had read 'enough' Islamic history, you would have realised that this is a controversial issue and according to many historians she was given her freedom and then married by the prophet. She was certainly not a free woman, a present from the archbishop of Alexandria, still according to many accounts the prophet married her. She is always called 'umm ul mominin', a title that she shares with other wives of the prophet. Why give only one side of a historical controversy just to prove your point. There are certain things that happen to be bigger than you and your ego. Show some consideration.

It is not a controversial issue.

Prophet did not marry her.

She isn't counted among the 11 wives of prophet.

 

[Joseph K.]

According to Islamic Encyclopedia by Syed Qasim Mahood and Encyclopedia of Seerah Vol II by Afzal ur Rehman she was the maid of the Holy Prophet. Where as according to Encyclopedia of Islam (New Edition) by Leidar E. J. Brill she was the concubine. However according to Sarkar -e-Do Alam by Monas Zubairi The Holy Prophet married her.

http://b.domaindlx.com/islamiclegacy/hazrat_maria_qibtia.htm#_ftn1

 

[zaf1986]

It is not a controversial issue.

Prophet did not marry her.

She isn't counted among the 11 wives of prophet.

Where did you get the arbitary figure? The prophet had 16, and in some riwayat, 18 wives.

You are yet to provide a single credible historian to prove your claim that she was not a wife of the Prophet. I discount what Joseph has provided since he didn't claim he is the allama of history as you have.

 

[batter]

Where did you get the arbitary figure? The prophet had 16, and in some riwayat, 18 wives.

You are yet to provide a single credible historian to prove your claim that she was not a wife of the Prophet. I discount what Joseph has provided since he didn't claim he is the allama of history as you have.

Ok i will.

The sources pointed out by Joseph are all secondary sources. They derive their information from primary sources which are as follows

The first ever biography of Prophet written by Ibn Ishaq (d. 767). This is the source of most of the information about prohet's life. He was a ntive of Medina.

Then we have Waqidi's (d.823) biography of prophet . He was like ibn Ishaq a ntive of Medina.

The next is Ibn-i- Sad (d. 845) . He was a student of Waqidi and lived in baghdad.

Finally we have tabari (d. 923) who wrote the most massive of all the history books on early islamic history.He again was a native of Baghdad.

Finally we have the great collections of Hadith by imam Bukhari (d.870) and Imam muslim (d. 874)..

Now every one of the above has very clearly written in their books that Maria Qibtia (RA) was prophet's concubine.

If you are interested in secondary sources then read Allama Shibli Naumani's Seerat un Nabi. He also says that maria (RA) was prophet's concubine.

There is not a single source in Islamic history which says that Prophet married her.

As for the number of wives , i agrre that the number is controversial. In some sources the number has reached 31 also but still no source mentions Maria (RA) as prophets wife.

i mentioned the number 11 because the books of Hadith mention only eleven wives of prophet

 

[foojam]

]Ok i will.[/B]


man are u still going at it ????

 

[batter]

]Ok i will.[/B]


man are u still going at it ????

Whatever i have contended in this thread on both the issues (Music and concubinage) is fully supported from Quran, hadith , fiqh and Islamic history.

On the second of these issues(concubinage) there is no disagreement at all though a small minority of scholars have considered music allowed in Islam.

 

[mamoo gogo]

Can we get back to discussing the movie please?

 

[foojam]

Whatever i have contended in this thread on both the issues (Music and concubinage) is fully supported from Quran, hadith , fiqh and Islamic history.

On the second of these issues(concubinage) there is no disagreement at all though a small minority of scholars have considered music allowed in Islam.

 

[Joseph K.]

His (Sheraz's) primary purpose is to get this thread locked, that ain't gonna happen boy, you can talk manure till cows come home, that ain't gonna happen.

 

[kablooee87]

If a month and a half ago somebody told me that this thread would end up the way it has, I would've called him captain obvious.

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

His (Sheraz's) primary purpose is to get this thread locked, that ain't gonna happen boy, you can talk manure till cows come home, that ain't gonna happen.

I still can't believe that he has the guts to lecture others over music being haram etc when he himself has girlfriends and changes them every 5-6 months.

wow. I mean just wow. from what little I know, fornication is suppsed to be a much bigger sin than listening to music. the punishment for zina is much harsher than most other sins.

 

[deviously~fading~away]

Found another review of the movie (hopefully this will bring the discussion back to the movie & away from Mr. Sheraz1977)...

Ever since 9/11, Muslims worldwide have been looked at with suspicion and distrust. Moderate Muslims suffer due to the actions of a few fundamentalists. Moderate Muslims are looked at with disgust by these fundamentalists due to their attire and outlook on life, and are looked at with distrust by the Western world. Khuda Ke Liye tries to bring these issues into the limelight, and tries to highlight what moderate Muslims worldwide have to go through, on a routine basis, in their homelands, as well as in foreign countries.

Shoaib Mansoor has been accredited for his work on Pakistani Serials such as "Alpha Bravo Charlie", and "Fifty Fifty", and is also the main person behind the "Vital Signs", Pakistan’s most inspirational pop band.

Many have considered Khuda Ke Liye to be a controversial movie as it will undoubtedly rattle many a Moulvi and many a Western Hardliners. The story runs around a Pakistani student, a moderate Muslim, who is planning on getting married, but is arrested on the charges of aligning with fundamentalist terrorists. Now the story is spot on, as well as the overall visualization, but there are a few hiccups. Before you read on further, let me warn you that this will be somewhat of a spoiler.

No doubt Shaan is a great actor, but does he really look young enough to play a young student? And that too, if he’s working along side Fawad Khan; as Fawad’s older brother. Another thing that I’ve noticed is that the songs haven’t really been visualized all that well. The audio is just superb, but the visuals don’t really capture the feel of the stunning music.
Adding to that, the movie sped through the first half, but then slowed down considerably in the second half, specially since it’s a three hour movie. That slowdown just didn’t fit, as viewers can get bored with it.

Fawad and Iman acted really well, and Naseeruddin Shah stole the show, as is always expected. Shaan also carried himself quite well, specially during the jail scenes.

The story circulates around three continents. Mansoor (Shaan) and Sarmad (Fawad) are brothers, who also happen to be successful musicians, but extremism finds them, in the form of Sarmad coming into the influence of a convoluted, hard-lined form of Islamic teachings. This spells the end of their musical band, and the start of a controversial story. Iman Ali, making her film debut, plays the role of a Pakistani Briton, who wants to marry her non-Muslim boyfriend. But her father, and Sarmad’s and Mansoor’s uncle, Hussain Shah, played by Humayun Kazmi, brings her to Pakistan, and asks Mansoor to marry her, but Mansoor refuses. Hussain Shah’s older brother, Shershah, played by Hameed Shaikh takes her to his village somewhere near the Pak-Afghan border. There she tries to escape but Shershah tracks her down and brings her back to the village.

Now starts Mansoor’s story. He falls in love with an American Girl, played by Austin Sayre, and they eventually agree to get married. Then the events of 9/11 unfold, and everyone’s life turns into an impossible-to-pass test. Everyone’s acting in this movie is quite literally superb, albeit Shaan still did his usual thing.

Now let’s go over the music. There are very few Pakistani movie songs out there that come to par with the quality of major pop songs, but Khuda Ke Liye’s soundtracks take the cake. Their lyrics carry a Sufi feel, and the music gives a soft but mystic touch. I personally liked the song “Khuda Ke Liye” because of its upbeat music, and ‘Hamd’ like demeanor. Another very good song is “Janie Janie”, sung by Ahmed Jahanzeb. Its a romantic ballad about a person’s feeling towards his heart’s desire. The music, again, is just superb; you almost start flowing with it while you’re listening. The quality of the music and soundtracks can be guessed quite easily as Shoaib Mansoor is the person behind the pop kings of Pakistan, the Vital Signs. Even though Khuda Ke Liye doesn’t employ all the big guns of our music industry, but the singers have still done justice to the superb lyrics, and the overall feel of each soundtrack is just awesome. Ahmed Jahanzeb and Shuja Haider have done a tremendous job with their songs, and the lyrics written up by Shoaib himself, really make this one stand out of the crowd.

All in all, Khuda Ke Liye has set new standards for the Pakistani cinema, be it in music, or be it in screenplay. Employing new, as yet unheard, talent and major big screen names, this movie is definitely a benchmark for the Pakistani movie industry. Shoaib’s at it again, setting standards and creating a wave in the industry that will start off a ripple effect.

Kashif
Editor
Rasala Publications Group

 

[Zechariah]

I still can't believe that he has the guts to lecture others over music being haram etc when he himself has girlfriends and changes them every 5-6 months.

wow. I mean just wow. one would think that fornication is a much bigger sin than listening to music. the punishment for zina is much harsher than most other sins.

haha true, That's laughable really. We are branded as secularists and liberals and we have someone here with a girlfriend thing going on but music is haram!

 

[zaf1986]

I still can't believe that he has the guts to lecture others over music being haram etc when he himself has girlfriends and changes them every 5-6 months.

wow. I mean just wow. from what little I know, fornication is suppsed to be a much bigger sin than listening to music. the punishment for zina is much harsher than most other sins.

Exactly. And he's so qabil that he doesn't know "iqrar-e-gunah badtar az gunnah" - to confess a sin (in front of the people) is worse than committing it.

 

[the Great Khan]

Moderate Muslims suffer due to the actions of a few fundamentalists. Moderate Muslims are looked at with disgust by these fundamentalists due to their attire and outlook on life, and are looked at with distrust by the Western world.

poor "moderate Muslims" such oppression against these poor guys...yaar aik whicsky ka hi glass pina hay..kya masla hay in maulvi sahibs ko?

can someone tell me what a moderate Muslim is please? anyone? I still havent got a definition for enlightenend moderation...???

 

[foojam]

poor "moderate Muslims" such oppression against these poor guys...yaar aik whicsky ka hi glass pina hay..kya masla hay in maulvi sahibs ko?

can someone tell me what a moderate Muslim is please? anyone? I still havent got a definition for enlightenend moderation...???

its not difficult...pick up a dictionary and it will tell you what moderate means then apply that to a muslim...hey presto

 

[Wazeeri]

Why was mine and Mumtaz's dialogue deleted when all this crap is being allowed to be posted?

 

[foojam]

what crap? and what dialogue was deleted?

 

[Joseph K.]

poor "moderate Muslims" such oppression against these poor guys...yaar aik whicsky ka hi glass pina hay..kya masla hay in maulvi sahibs ko?

can someone tell me what a moderate Muslim is please? anyone? I still havent got a definition for enlightenend moderation...???

Khan sahib, is there no middle ground. To you, one who questions the dogma and refuses to follow mindlessly is nothing more than a 'sharabi, zaani'. Is there no middle ground at all? You think people either go round in ridiculous medieval costumes or they participate in orgies. What a simplistic view of human nature.

 

[Wazeeri]

Sheraz

There is a difference of opinion as to whether Hadhrat Maria Qitibah was a slave or not but there is no refuting the fact that the Prophet(pbuh) married her. There is a hadith in which hadhrat Aisha(RAA) claimed that Hadhrat maria was from a royal family. You don't give royal family women away as slaves so it is highly unlikely that, that was the case.

The confusion arise from two hadiths, in one of them it is said that from Alexandria prophet(pbuh) received two slaves Maria and Sirin and in the other it says that the prophet(pbuh) received Maria and Sirin and their two slaves.

I don't know the hadith of by heart but will try to find it.

 

[Saj]

Folks, I wouldnt want to remove this thread, but can we please stick to discussions relating to the film - thanks

 

[Joseph K.]

Folks, I wouldnt want to remove this thread, but can we please stick to discussions relating to the film - thanks

I knew this would happen as some people want this thread to be removed. I'll bring it back on the track.

Anybody else who has seen the film, specially people from Pakistan? Is the soundtrack becoming more mainstream? Is it as popular as Ankahi and Tanhaiyan?

 

[waqar_ahmad]

I knew this would happen as some people want this thread to be removed. I'll bring it back on the track.

Anybody else who has seen the film, specially people from Pakistan? Is the soundtrack becoming more mainstream? Is it as popular as Ankahi and Tanhaiyan?

i havent seen the film yet, and since it is a shoaib mansoor project, im sure it wll be great. but i have to say i dont find the music all that interesting. it is diff from pak and indian film music, which is a good thing coz i hate film music, but stil, i dont think the music of the film is that good

 

[Joseph K.]

i havent seen the film yet, and since it is a shoaib mansoor project, im sure it wll be great. but i have to say i dont find the music all that interesting. it is diff from pak and indian film music, which is a good thing coz i hate film music, but stil, i dont think the music of the film is that good

I think this is typical Pakistani modern music, radically different from the Bollywood and Lollywood music. Although this is very reactionary stuff but still it is rooted in our folk traditions and reflects the mysticism which once used to be a dominant feature of Islam. I must admit that I haven't heard sub-continent popular music since the demise of Vital Signs (I listen to ghazals only) but this music brings back memories of the Vital Signs era. Must be a Shoaib Mansoor thing then.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

I think this is typical Pakistani modern music, radically different from the Bollywood and Lollywood music. Although this is very reactionary stuff but still it is rooted in our folk traditions and reflects the mysticism which once used to be a dominant feature of Islam. I must admit that I haven't heard sub-continent popular music since the demise of Vital Signs (I listen to ghazals only) but this music brings back memories of the Vital Signs era. Must be a Shoaib Mansoor thing then.

that is the thing i like the most here, bollywood and lollywod churn out the same trash again and again, i hate both of them. so it is good that shoaib mansor came up with somethign different, but then, he always does. however, i didnt get into it at all. except for Bandya Ho, rest of the songs aren't interesting

 

[Hash]

What non sense.

You don't have an iota of knowledge about islamic history and make such stupid claims here.

FYI There is complete consensus in Islam that hazrat Mariya Qubtiya (RA) was a concubine of the prophet (PBUH) .There is nothing bad in it as concubinage is allowed according to holy Quran.

I challenge you to refute it .

Someone like you with such an amazing education should know that 'nonsense' is actually one word

 

[HillRock]

Exactly. And he's so qabil that he doesn't know "iqrar-e-gunah badtar az gunnah" - to confess a sin (in front of the people) is worse than committing it.

Since we are discussing 'qabliyat', I think it is necessary to quote exact proverb, not by changing it to your needs. The exact proverb is "Azr-e-Gunah BadTar Az Gunnah" - to make excuse for a sin is worse than committing it.

 

[the Great Khan]

Khan sahib, is there no middle ground. To you, one who questions the dogma and refuses to follow mindlessly is nothing more than a 'sharabi, zaani'. Is there no middle ground at all? You think people either go round in ridiculous medieval costumes or they participate in orgies. What a simplistic view of human nature.

on the contrary, I believe in the middle ground and consider myself a centrist..however others have divided things into moderate and extremist..(in this case moderate means liberal secualrised muslim)...the whisky comment is a sarcastic satirical swipe...

 

[waqar_ahmad]

i think this thread should be locked now. no one is discussing the movie here. people who want to discuss other topics should jsut create separate threads. why r u guys spoiling this one?

 

[Joseph K.]

on the contrary, I believe in the middle ground and consider myself a centrist..however others have divided things into moderate and extremist..(in this case moderate means liberal secualrised muslim)...the whisky comment is a sarcastic satirical swipe...

... and is totally and utterly needles unless one's own mind is totally and utterly filled with these sinful fantasies

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

i think this thread should be locked now.

absolutely not. others and I have invested a lot of time and energy into posting news about the film in this thread. imo, the correct way is to either delete all irrelevant posts or warn the posters who're intent on discussing everything but the movie to take their crap elsewhere.

frankly the folks who're intent on issuing fatwas on music while having girlfriends and changing them every 5-6 months are actually doing this nonsense to get this thread locked. and hence, binning this thread will be very unfair to people who have taken a lot of time to post news, reviews, etc of the movie to raise awareness about it.

 

[HillRock]

This thread should not be locked. I am looking forward to the release of movie in North America or DVD. We will be better able to comment on it once we have seen it. So far, only some people in Pakistan have watched it and nobody commented on the story, may be due to spoiler warning. But I guess, one thing almost all people agree on is that this movie is way ahead in terms of cinematography and direction standards compare to the rubbish that is being produced in Pakistan.

 

[Joseph K.]

Too much time and effort has gone into this thread, people should be warned and told to behave themselves, locking and binning the whole thread would not be a good thing.

 

[the Great Khan]

and is totally and utterly needles unless one's own mind is totally and utterly filled with these sinful fantasies

well dont reply to the post if youre that bothered..in my experience most seculars love a good whiskey!!...why, dont you? and so now your a psychologist too? or maybe just full of oneself?...

ill say what i want and continue my opposition to secularism with plenty of satirical, windup comments thankyou very much...now go and have a whiskey or something..

 

[Wazeeri]

Great Khan

It is wrong to say that all the seculars drink whichky

Especially for all the suicide bombing Mullahs like yourself, who control Pakistan didn't you know.

On topic

This movie was made by Shoaib mansoor on terrorism.

 

[Joseph K.]

well dont reply to the post if youre that bothered..in my experience most seculars love a good whiskey!!...why, dont you? and so now your a psychologist too? or maybe just full of oneself?...

ill say what i want and continue my opposition to secularism with plenty of satirical, windup comments thankyou very much...now go and have a whiskey or something..

Still busy trying to get the thread locked, Khan saab!

 

[the Great Khan]

Still busy trying to get the thread locked, Khan saab

lol..acha bhai joseph bhai maaf kurdo...hum Mullah haat joartay hain..hamara humour thura sa karva lug raha hay logoan ko...chul asay sahi...b(but i do believe i made my point on gross generalisations of individuals..seems only wazeeri picked up on it..lol)

anyway back to the movie...when is this available on DVD as i doubt it will be opening in any cinema nearby?

 

[Wazeeri]

Yeh go dance to a Bollywood tune you Mullah.


Nassirudin Shah is in the movie did you know?

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

anyway back to the movie...when is this available on DVD as i doubt it will be opening in any cinema nearby?

the DVD release is probably some time away.

the movie is supposed to be released in the UK in September/October. so it will be playing in UK cinemas.

just don't suicide bomb one that is playing the movie. j/k. but since you have such a great sense of humour, I'm sure you took that in the right spirit.

 

[mamoo gogo]

What about the US? Do you know if we are getting a theatrical release?