Nawaz Sharif played a major role in my release : Raymond Davis

[Mian]

So finally Raymond Davis book is released with shocking claims.

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] now call this book of Raymond another saazish of deep state actors against democracy!

 

[Mian]

So SM Qureshi was standing on the right side at that time.

This is what Imran said in 2011

 

[Major]

He said general pasha.

Dont know when he said nawaz sharif.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

So finally Raymond Davis book is released with shocking claims.

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] now call this book of Raymond another saazish of deep state actors against democracy!

Keep Writing.


Meri Bala se beshak issay Holy Divine book samajh lou. Mera kya jaata hai ?


I tagged you in Markhor's post. Wahan q chup k se patli gali se nikal jaatay ho ?

Kya Syed1 ki post mein bhee tumhein Tag kerun Major ji ?


Kya DW44 aor Nostalgic ki posts mein bhee tumhein tag kiya kerun ?


Sub ko meinay bewaqoof pagal banaya hai Pakpassion pe ?


Detailed Answer is needed.

 

[WebGuru]

He said general pasha.

Dont know when he said nawaz sharif.

Nawaz, Zardari, Pasha and Hussain Haqaani (total 4 people)

ریمنڈ ڈیوس کا کہنا ہے کہ مجھے کوٹ لکھپت جیل سے رہا کرانے میں جان کیری، نواز شریف، آصف زرداری، جنرل پاشا اور حسین حقانی نے مل کر مدد کی۔

جان کیری کی نواز شریف سے ملاقات کے بعد رہائی کے راستے ہموار ہونا شروع ہوئے، اس کی رہائی کے بعد جنرل پاشا کو مدت ملازمت میں توسیع بھی مل گئی تھی

https://jang.com.pk/latest/338819-nawaz-zardari-and-general-pasha-helped-me-free-raymond-davis

 

[Bewal Express]

And Nooras accuse of IK of being a foreign agent, whilst all along conspiring with Foreigners to steal elections and steal poor peoples hard earnt cash.

 

[WebGuru]

And Uncle Sam paid back during 2013 GE

 

[Major]

At the end of the day, islamic law was used. People should be happy

This guy showed the whole world the loop holes in pakistan's islamic laws

 

[WebGuru]

At the end of the day, islamic law was used. People should be happy

This guy showed the whole world the loop holes in pakistan's islamic laws

23 Crores from Tax payers money not from Raymond Davis or Uncle Sam's pocket...

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

He said general pasha.

Dont know when he said nawaz sharif.

Nawaz, Zardari, Pasha and Hussain Haqaani (total 4 people)

ریمنڈ ڈیوس کا کہنا ہے کہ مجھے کوٹ لکھپت جیل سے رہا کرانے میں جان کیری، نواز شریف، آصف زرداری، جنرل پاشا اور حسین حقانی نے مل کر مدد کی۔

جان کیری کی نواز شریف سے ملاقات کے بعد رہائی کے راستے ہموار ہونا شروع ہوئے، اس کی رہائی کے بعد جنرل پاشا کو مدت ملازمت میں توسیع بھی مل گئی تھی

https://jang.com.pk/latest/338819-nawaz-zardari-and-general-pasha-helped-me-free-raymond-davis

And Nooras accuse of IK of being a foreign agent, whilst all along conspiring with Foreigners to steal elections and steal poor peoples hard earnt cash.

As per Rauf Klasra who quoted Raymond Davis backdoor all political and Establishment players including PPP, PML N & Army were on One Page with Major significant Role played by DG ISI General Shuja Pasha.


But what was than sold to Pak Media through media stooges ? Ppp are traitors & anti Pakistan and Zardari did Soudaa Deal with USA. This is what so called free media sold Us.


And Now this :

 

[Major]

23 Crores from Tax payers money not from Raymond Davis or Uncle Sam's pocket...

Then maybe its time to look at the loopholes in these laws

 

[WebGuru]

As per Rauf Klasra who quoted Raymond Davis backdoor all political and Establishment players including PPP, PML N & Army were on One Page with Major significant Role played by DG ISI General Shuja Pasha.


But what was than sold to Pak Media through media stooges ? Ppp are traitors & anti Pakistan and Zardari did Soudaa Deal with USA. This is what so called free media sold Us.


And Now this :

SMQ is looking like a hero now...

 

[WebGuru]

Then maybe its time to look at the loopholes in these laws

There are so many flaws and loopholes in our system created by our own leaders to use later. The whole system is fixed and they will make sure it remains this way...

 

[WebGuru]

As per Rauf Klasra who quoted Raymond Davis backdoor all political and Establishment players including PPP, PML N & Army were on One Page with Major significant Role played by DG ISI General Shuja Pasha.

It says:

جان کیری کی نواز شریف سے ملاقات کے بعد رہائی کے راستے ہموار ہونا شروع ہوئے، اس کی رہائی کے بعد جنرل پاشا کو مدت ملازمت میں توسیع بھی مل گئی تھی

That means Pasha and ISI role came later and who convinced them? hint hint black kot, memogate, kiani call, lawyer movement... (A Sharif sapoot was their blue eyed boy during PPP govt)

 

[Syed1]

Nawaz Sharif is a security threat for Pakistan

 

[Mian]

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] bhai finding it hard to defend his democratic leaders without bashing deep state loo

 

[Black Zero]

Isn't Pasha the master mind behind several PTI led dharnas?

 

[WebGuru]

Isn't Pasha the master mind behind several PTI led dharnas?

See this statement of Imran Khan in 2011. The year when pasha was in office and PTI was on rise. Pasha and ISI was being criticized for supporting PTI behind the scene in 2011/12. Even thn IK was criticizing Establishment...

 

[DW44]

Number of times Shuja Pasha's involvement is mentioned in OP: 0
I rest my case. Sarkari Pakistanis can wax eloquent about how anti corruption and anti status quo they are but that facade is exposed for what it is when it comes to holding the biggest crooks of them all to the same standards they demand for everyone else.

 

[Waseem]

Isn't Pasha the master mind behind several PTI led dharnas?

That's the irony, Pasha was allegedly sponsor of Imran's 2011 jalsa which was extremely successful and historic. Any sane person would know Pasha or anyone can NEVER force hundreds of thousands of people to attend a jalsa (it wasn't rent a crowd either with unmatched passion).

Also at the time Pasha was allegedly behind PTI, he was also working with Nawaz on these adventures as well.

One thing i have never understood, PMLN always hestitate to name any ISI/Army rep but for some reason Pasha is only person they almost always blame for everything. Possible understanding with Pasha i would say and this understanding also adds to that.

 

[Mian]

That's the irony, Pasha was allegedly sponsor of Imran's 2011 jalsa which was extremely successful and historic. Any sane person would know Pasha or anyone can NEVER force hundreds of thousands of people to attend a jalsa (it wasn't rent a crowd either with unmatched passion).

Also at the time Pasha was allegedly behind PTI, he was also working with Nawaz on these adventures as well.

One thing i have never understood, PMLN always hestitate to name any ISI/Army rep but for some reason Pasha is only person they almost always blame for everything. Possible understanding with Pasha i would say and this understanding also adds to that.

Just saw Imran press conference video from same year 2011 criticizing agencies and establishment for the release of this murderer. The anti Imran brigade always ignore these facts

 

[Slog]

General Pasha playing on both sides of the wicket?

 

[King-Misbah]

He said general pasha.

Dont know when he said nawaz sharif.

He said Pasha, Nawaz Sharif, Zardari and Hussain Hakkani!

Pasha was even texting Munter during the court hearing and Nawaz was head of Punjab.

Everything highlights how Imran is a saint amongst these politicans and generals.

 

[King-Misbah]

Just saw Imran press conference video from same year 2011 criticizing agencies and establishment for the release of this murderer. The anti Imran brigade always ignore these facts

That particular interview cost Imran the elections. Nawaz was then bought into power.

 

[the Great Khan]

thanks Nawaz..as a gift for releasing this terrorist we got Salala...26 brave soldiers sacrificed to cover up america's involvement in terrorism in pakistan..

 

[Black Zero]

See this statement of Imran Khan in 2011. The year when pasha was in office and PTI was on rise. Pasha and ISI was being criticized for supporting PTI behind the scene in 2011/12. Even thn IK was criticizing Establishment...

We are in 2017, "Azad I March" was in 2014. So if you tell me that IK was against establishment in 2011, then I would not argue with you but just to be clear you are not answering my question.

That's the irony, Pasha was allegedly sponsor of Imran's 2011 jalsa which was extremely successful and historic. Any sane person would know Pasha or anyone can NEVER force hundreds of thousands of people to attend a jalsa (it wasn't rent a crowd either with unmatched passion).

Also at the time Pasha was allegedly behind PTI, he was also working with Nawaz on these adventures as well.

One thing i have never understood, PMLN always hestitate to name any ISI/Army rep but for some reason Pasha is only person they almost always blame for everything. Possible understanding with Pasha i would say and this understanding also adds to that.

My question was not about 2011 jalsa.

 

[WebGuru]

We are in 2017, "Azad I March" was in 2014. So if you tell me that IK was against establishment in 2011, then I would not argue with you but just to be clear you are not answering my question.



My question was not about 2011 jalsa.

Pasha retired in March 2012 from ISI and FYI he is working for a Tycoon since thn i hope you don't think Pasha was running the ISI show 2 and a half years after his retirement. His term was from 2008 to 2010 and thn given 2 years extension to make it till 2012.

 

[Black Zero]

See this statement of Imran Khan in 2011. The year when pasha was in office and PTI was on rise. Pasha and ISI was being criticized for supporting PTI behind the scene in 2011/12. Even thn IK was criticizing Establishment...

Pasha retired in March 2012 from ISI and FYI he is working for a Tycoon since thn i hope you don't think Pasha was running the ISI show 2 and a half years after his retirement. His term was from 2008 to 2010 and thn given 2 years extension to make it till 2012.

Pasha was just a poor middle man with some agenda.

And I believe he tricked IK about Umpire's real intentions as finger was never raised.

 

[WebGuru]

Pasha was just a poor middle man with some agenda.

And I believe he tricked IK about Umpire's real intentions as finger was never raised.

Nah i don't know from where you info came but it's actually opposite of the facts because PMLN and other govt allies claimed Zaheer-ul-Islam the DG of ISI at that time (2014) was behind dherna and Pasha was accused of creating that popular wave for PTI in 2011/12 when he was DG specially the 2011 jalsa when leaders from other parties started jumping into PTI. You are mixing up 2 different events and 2 different type of accusations.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

It says:

جان کیری کی نواز شریف سے ملاقات کے بعد رہائی کے راستے ہموار ہونا شروع ہوئے، اس کی رہائی کے بعد جنرل پاشا کو مدت ملازمت میں توسیع بھی مل گئی تھی

That means Pasha and ISI role came later and who convinced them? hint hint black kot, memogate, kiani call, lawyer movement... (A Sharif sapoot was their blue eyed boy during PPP govt)

ایکستینشن پچھلے 25 سال میں بہت سے آرمی چیف اور ڈی جی آئی ایس آئی کو اسلیئے دی گئی کہ خوف تھا کہ مارشل لاء نہ لگا دیں یا فائلوں کو پہیئے نہ لگا دیں۔

سوات آپریشن کے بعد پالیسی کے تسلسل کے لیئے بھی ایکستینشنز دی گئیں۔

اب کیا ریمنڈ کو آزاد کرنے کے تحفے میں امریکہ کی طرف سے ایکستینشن دی گئی پی پی پی کی طرف سے یہ ممکن ہوسکتا ہے مگر کچھ حتمی نہیں کہا جا سکتا اس ضمن میں۔


بھٹو/زرداری/شریف سے دوستی دشمنی کے ویشیئس سرکل پچھلے 30 سال سے جاری ہیں۔ انکو لانے میں بھی مدد کی جاتی ہے پھر انکے ہاتھ بھی باندھے جاتے ہیں اور پھر یہ کھولنے کی کوشش بھی کرتے ہیں۔ایک بیان دیا تھا گیلانی نے تو منشیات کا کیس بنا دیا گیا پھر شہید گورنر کا بیٹا بھی اٹھا لیا گیا اور الیکشن مہم میں گیلانی جونیئر بھی اٹھا کے غائب کیا گیا۔ اگر کرپشن کی بھی تھی تو ایک دو ارب دے کر ہی چھٹے ہونگے۔ اب آخری سانس تک اسٹیبلشمنٹ کے خلاف بات نہیں کریں گے گیلانی صاحب بجز اسکے کے شریف یا زرداری یا عمران اسٹیبلشمنٹ کی کمر توڑنے میں کامیاب ہو جائیں۔


امریکہ سے جب ہم کھربوں کی بھیک لے رہے تھے تو زرداری صاحب تھے یا شریف صاحب کوئی نا نہیں کر سکتا تھا ریمنڈ کے معاملے پر امریکہ کو سوائے اسکے کے فوج کہتی پر فوج بھی ایک پیج پر تھی سو پھر کیا غلط ہوا ؟ جس سے بھیک لیتے ہیں اسے آنکھیں دکھا سکتے ہیں ؟ کیری لوگر بل میں کیا فوج نے موجیں نہیں کی ؟ کیا آڈٹ ہوا ؟ آج تک نہ ہوا نہ ہوگا۔

مگر سوال یہ ہے کہ مبشر لقمان اور کمپنی عوام کو کیا بیچتے رہے تھے سو کالڈ آزاد میڈیا کے ذریعے ؟ انکی ڈوریں وہی کھینچتے ہیں جو عدالت سے امریکیوں کو لمحہ بہ لمحہ اطلاع دے رہے تھے کہ آپکا بندر رہا ہورہا ہے۔ سو کون گندی ڈبل گیم کھیل رہا تھا ؟ زرداری ؟ نواز یا کوئی اور ؟ یہ بھی زرداری یا نواز پہ ڈال دو

 

[Major]

He said Pasha, Nawaz Sharif, Zardari and Hussain Hakkani!

Pasha was even texting Munter during the court hearing and Nawaz was head of Punjab.

Everything highlights how Imran is a saint amongst these politicans and generals.

how so?

Wasn't islamic law used here?

 

[King-Misbah]

how so?

Wasn't islamic law used here?

If you remember correctly, the family did not want money initially. It can be stated to be a mis use of the islamic law by influencing or even forcing the victims family to make a settlement.

 

[Black Zero]

Nah i don't know from where you info came but it's actually opposite of the facts because PMLN and other govt allies claimed Zaheer-ul-Islam the DG of ISI at that time (2014) was behind dherna and Pasha was accused of creating that popular wave for PTI in 2011/12 when he was DG specially the 2011 jalsa when leaders from other parties started jumping into PTI. You are mixing up 2 different events and 2 different type of accusations.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1174163

"Dharna was Gen Shuja Pasha's brainchild, alleges Javed Hashmi"

 

[WebGuru]

GHQ isn't going to like this tweet of IK today. Yeh banda khud apne paon per kulhaara maar raha when he is in strong position should avoid this but yeh banda safe play ker he nae skta...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A shameful account of how our top pol & mly leadership collaborated to let a cold blooded killer, responsible for 4 deaths, go scot-free <a href="https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY">https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881044604451041280">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This book shd be read by Pakistanis to understand why we are treated with so little respect internationally. <a href="https://t.co/REkW5iWmIW">pic.twitter.com/REkW5iWmIW</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881043699542577153">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[carbon11]

If anything the blame also goes onto pasha , with Raymond Davis clearly mentioning his role


That just shows our generals have sold the country out. that tweet by the saudi minister that Pakistanis are our slaves is holding greater water by the day .

We have been auctioned off too china USA Saudi , and totally violated in every sense on all our borders

 

[King-Misbah]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1174163

"Dharna was Gen Shuja Pasha's brainchild, alleges Javed Hashmi"

Because Hashmi is very credible! You have no argument when your relying on people like Hashmi.

 

[Mian]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1174163

"Dharna was Gen Shuja Pasha's brainchild, alleges Javed Hashmi"

Hashmi really? The fake messiah of democracy who was part of General zia cabinet and later received funds from isi to derail Benazir government.

 

[WebGuru]

Raymond Davis writing about SMQ in his book

 

[Couch Cricketer]

With Raymonds book coming out at the time it has it solidifies my belief that the establishment is planning to remove Nawaz Sharif and the JIT was put in place for time for them to set up someone as a replacement. IK is to rigid in his stances for the establishment to allow to come to power so who will they bring.

Sent from the mobile client - Forum Talker

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

GHQ isn't going to like this tweet of IK today. Yeh banda khud apne paon per kulhaara maar raha when he is in strong position should avoid this but yeh banda safe play ker he nae skta...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A shameful account of how our top pol & mly leadership collaborated to let a cold blooded killer, responsible for 4 deaths, go scot-free <a href="https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY">https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881044604451041280">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This book shd be read by Pakistanis to understand why we are treated with so little respect internationally. <a href="https://t.co/REkW5iWmIW">pic.twitter.com/REkW5iWmIW</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881043699542577153">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Bilkul theek ker raha hai. This is why I love Imran Khan.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Imran Khan calls on Pakistanis to read Raymond Davis' memoir

OP is obsessed with TSPK. Hehe.


OP, Imran Khan ne OP aor " gehri rayasatt " ko Slap kerai hai. This is Dalairr (Brave) Imran Khan Niazi.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This book shd be read by Pakistanis to understand why we are treated with so little respect internationally. <a href="https://t.co/REkW5iWmIW">pic.twitter.com/REkW5iWmIW</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881043699542577153">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A shameful account of how our top pol & mly leadership collaborated to let a cold blooded killer, responsible for 4 deaths, go scot-free <a href="https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY">https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881044604451041280">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Napa]

Everything highlights how Imran is a saint amongst these politicans and generals.

Imran was the Pak Army's tool to weaken a democratically elected government.

If a democracy is to work, those who lose an election have to wait for the next elections. That is something Imran never followed, and his effect on Pakistani democracy has therefore largely been negative.

 

[inam_1]

Imran was the Pak Army's tool to weaken a democratically elected government.

If a democracy is to work, those who lose an election have to wait for the next elections. That is something Imran never followed, and his effect on Pakistani democracy has therefore largely been negative.

Democratically elected government??? It was a Super power elected government not the government that the nation chose. Election results were tempered with. Everyone know that. Imran accepted the result and is waiting patiently for the next elections. He is head of the opposition, so anything he does looks like he is going against democracy but he is actually doing the right thing and making the democracy work.

 

[Black Zero]

Because Hashmi is very credible! You have no argument when your relying on people like Hashmi.

In reality you neither got argument nor credibility.

 

[Black Zero]

Hashmi really? The fake messiah of democracy who was part of General zia cabinet and later received funds from isi to derail Benazir government.

We'll then why IK begged "baghi" to join PTI and gave him the utmost importance??
Shame on IK for making such a person, president of the party.

Anyway, "baghi" resigned from the seat that he won on PTI ticket.

Anyway, I'll take "fake" messiah words on the words of "real" saviors like Qadri, Sheikhoo, KuPatan.

 

[PakLFC]

We don't need Raymond to tell us this. Zardari, Nawaz and Hussain Haqqani all worked together to have him released.

 

[King-Misbah]

In reality you neither got argument nor credibility.

Atleast, i have decency and morals to not support a mafia. Look in the mirror and question your being. How can you support the corrupt, murderers, liars and incompetent #PMLN.

 

[Pakpak]

Imran was the Pak Army's tool to weaken a democratically elected government.

If a democracy is to work, those who lose an election have to wait for the next elections. That is something Imran never followed, and his effect on Pakistani democracy has therefore largely been negative.

Massive ignorance on display here.

Only person or party who in the past has been CONVICTED of taking money from the ISI and the Army to rig an election against another democratically chosen government (PPP) has been PLMN and Nawaz. The only reason Nawaz has survived is because of the Army, Raheel Sharif himself and a lot of PMLN leaders openly admit that he saved him in 2014 and told him not to resign.

Nawaz Sharif and his party were made by Zia to counter PPP, he served under the most brutal military dictatorship we have ever seen, in our nation, himself as a minister. This is all common knowledge, so educate yourself a little, no offence.

Considering the power the Army has it would easily have made Imran Khan PM multiple times over, but it hasn't due to his regular criticisms of the Army and the fact that he can't be blackmailed and kept in line like Nawaz because he is clean without a single case of corruption on him.

You asked me to take you seriously in the other thread, but just basic lack of knowledge about our political history just makes your posts come across as winding people up.

 

[Syed1]

GHQ isn't going to like this tweet of IK today. Yeh banda khud apne paon per kulhaara maar raha when he is in strong position should avoid this but yeh banda safe play ker he nae skta...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A shameful account of how our top pol & mly leadership collaborated to let a cold blooded killer, responsible for 4 deaths, go scot-free <a href="https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY">https://t.co/Yye6ECfZpY</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881044604451041280">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This book shd be read by Pakistanis to understand why we are treated with so little respect internationally. <a href="https://t.co/REkW5iWmIW">pic.twitter.com/REkW5iWmIW</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/881043699542577153">July 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
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This shows that this man is only loyal to Pakistan and nothing else. Unfortunately in Pakistan you have to be disloyal or down-right traitor to be elected.

 

[Black Zero]

Atleast, i have decency and morals to not support a mafia. Look in the mirror and question your being. How can you support the corrupt, murderers, liars and incompetent #PMLN.

No, you have misunderstood yourself.
You can add decency and moralality to the absentee list, which already included argument and credibility.

IK is no different from NS or AAZ.(Agencies would use and play with these so called politicians)
and
PTI's supporters are no different from PMLN's or PPPP's supporters.

 

[Napa]

Massive ignorance on display here.

Only person or party who in the past has been CONVICTED of taking money from the ISI and the Army to rig an election against another democratically chosen government (PPP) has been PLMN and Nawaz. The only reason Nawaz has survived is because of the Army, Raheel Sharif himself and a lot of PMLN leaders openly admit that he saved him in 2014 and told him not to resign.

Nawaz Sharif and his party were made by Zia to counter PPP, he served under the most brutal military dictatorship we have ever seen, in our nation, himself as a minister. This is all common knowledge, so educate yourself a little, no offence.

Considering the power the Army has it would easily have made Imran Khan PM multiple times over, but it hasn't due to his regular criticisms of the Army and the fact that he can't be blackmailed and kept in line like Nawaz because he is clean without a single case of corruption on him.

You asked me to take you seriously in the other thread, but just basic lack of knowledge about our political history just makes your posts come across as winding people up.

I didn't say that Nawaz was clean. I basically said three things:

1) Nawaz won an elections. Let us assume there was some amount of rigging. But it doesn't appear that PTI would have won a completely clean election. IK was very popular with the young educated voters (like you), but not so much with the rest.

2) If a democracy is to grow, then IK should have realized that losing an election is not the end of his political career. He should have given Nawaz a chance to perform during his term without all these bandhs. Similarly, when IK won the next elections (which is quite likely) he is more likely to succeed if the opposition does not try to create chaos in the country.

3) The Army used IK's agitations to weaken the democratic government. They put limits on Nawaz's domestic and foreign policies and Nawaz had to accept their limits.

I didn't ask you to take me seriously, my earlier post was not written for you. It doesn't matter a whole lot what I think of Pakistan, it is your country and it will succeed or fail based on what Pakistanis do. I am just giving my assessment of the situation, that is where my involvement ends. I can say with confidence that this is what I believe is happening.

 

[Waseem]

I didn't say that Nawaz was clean. I basically said three things:

1) Nawaz won an elections. Let us assume there was some amount of rigging. But it doesn't appear that PTI would have won a completely clean election. IK was very popular with the young educated voters (like you), but not so much with the rest.

2) If a democracy is to grow, then IK should have realized that losing an election is not the end of his political career. He should have given Nawaz a chance to perform during his term without all these bandhs. Similarly, when IK won the next elections (which is quite likely) he is more likely to succeed if the opposition does not try to create chaos in the country.

3) The Army used IK's agitations to weaken the democratic government. They put limits on Nawaz's domestic and foreign policies and Nawaz had to accept their limits.

I didn't ask you to take me seriously, my earlier post was not written for you. It doesn't matter a whole lot what I think of Pakistan, it is your country and it will succeed or fail based on what Pakistanis do. I am just giving my assessment of the situation, that is where my involvement ends. I can say with confidence that this is what I believe is happening.

IK himself said many times that he just wanted investigation on 4 seats and i am not going to become PM just based on these 4 seats so yes all he asked for was investigations? Why did it take 3-4 years to decide cases on those 4 seats? Wasn't rigging proved on 3/4 seats he asked for and 4th one had thousands of ballots missing as well?

Now if Ik was trying to throw government, who was stopping those forces to take over during dharna when people were being killed in protests?

The fact that establishment is being blamed yet again for Panama case which was exposed at international level, proves that EVEYRHING in Pakistan is blamed on hidden forces despite clear evidences.

 

[Pakpak]

I didn't say that Nawaz was clean. I basically said three things:

1) Nawaz won an elections. Let us assume there was some amount of rigging. But it doesn't appear that PTI would have won a completely clean election. IK was very popular with the young educated voters (like you), but not so much with the rest.

2) If a democracy is to grow, then IK should have realized that losing an election is not the end of his political career. He should have given Nawaz a chance to perform during his term without all these bandhs. Similarly, when IK won the next elections (which is quite likely) he is more likely to succeed if the opposition does not try to create chaos in the country.

3) The Army used IK's agitations to weaken the democratic government. They put limits on Nawaz's domestic and foreign policies and Nawaz had to accept their limits.

I didn't ask you to take me seriously, my earlier post was not written for you. It doesn't matter a whole lot what I think of Pakistan, it is your country and it will succeed or fail based on what Pakistanis do. I am just giving my assessment of the situation, that is where my involvement ends. I can say with confidence that this is what I believe is happening.

IK did not stop Nawaz not performing, all he asked was to investigate 4 seats where it was suspected rigging was happening. Nawaz rejected a basic request and hence got deserved protests. Clearly millions thought like me and backed him in the streets, including my own family. (He was proved correct later on ofcourse, all four seats were found to be rigged)

The only reason Nawaz accepted the Army's limits because is of the dirt they have on him, ranging from corruption scandals to rigging. This is all also true for Zardari when he was the leader. The fact you think such a corrupt man, who in the past was convicted of accepting bribes to win an election to topple another government, sitting in as PM does not weaken democracy but a man rightfully protesting corruption does (who was later and even now is proving to be correct) and this fact alone also means Imran Khan will probably never be PM as he can't be blackmailed and that THIS isn't weakening democracy, what can I say to you?

 

[King-Misbah]

No, you have misunderstood yourself.
You can add decency and moralality to the absentee list, which already included argument and credibility.

IK is no different from NS or AAZ.(Agencies would use and play with these so called politicians)
and
PTI's supporters are no different from PMLN's or PPPP's supporters.

New PMLN trick, oh, PTI is the same too lol Nice try!

 

[Napa]

IK did not stop Nawaz not performing, all he asked was to investigate 4 seats where it was suspected rigging was happening. Nawaz rejected a basic request and hence got deserved protests. Clearly millions thought like me and backed him in the streets, including my own family. (He was proved correct later on ofcourse, all four seats were found to be rigged)

The only reason Nawaz accepted the Army's limits because is of the dirt they have on him, ranging from corruption scandals to rigging. This is all also true for Zardari when he was the leader. The fact you think such a corrupt man, who in the past was convicted of accepting bribes to win an election to topple another government, sitting in as PM does not weaken democracy but a man rightfully protesting corruption does (who was later and even now is proving to be correct) and this fact alone also means Imran Khan will probably never be PM as he can't be blackmailed and that THIS isn't weakening democracy, what can I say to you?

We are probably not going to agree on the following two points:

1) During IK's agitation, that was the main news in newspapers for weeks/months. This creates political uncertainty which leads to economic uncertainty and discourages investment.

2) The Army may have dirt on Nawaz, but during IK's agitation there was a real threat that the Army would use that agitation as an excuse for a coup against Nawaz. Like Nawaz, when IK is overthrown in a coup, locked in a small cell in which you can neither stand nor lie down, and then exiled will I believe that IK's courage in facing the Army is as much as Nawaz's.

 

[Macho Mann]

We are probably not going to agree on the following two points:

1) During IK's agitation, that was the main news in newspapers for weeks/months. This creates political uncertainty which leads to economic uncertainty and discourages investment.

2) The Army may have dirt on Nawaz, but during IK's agitation there was a real threat that the Army would use that agitation as an excuse for a coup against Nawaz. Like Nawaz, when IK is overthrown in a coup, locked in a small cell in which you can neither stand nor lie down, and then exiled will I believe that IK's courage in facing the Army is as much as Nawaz's.

do you want me to share the funniest imran khan story from dharna? or you already know? tell me if you need a good laugh

 

[Napa]

do you want me to share the funniest imran khan story from dharna? or you already know? tell me if you need a good laugh

Please do share

 

[Pakpak]

We are probably not going to agree on the following two points:

1) During IK's agitation, that was the main news in newspapers for weeks/months. This creates political uncertainty which leads to economic uncertainty and discourages investment.

2) The Army may have dirt on Nawaz, but during IK's agitation there was a real threat that the Army would use that agitation as an excuse for a coup against Nawaz. Like Nawaz, when IK is overthrown in a coup, locked in a small cell in which you can neither stand nor lie down, and then exiled will I believe that IK's courage in facing the Army is as much as Nawaz's.

We are not going to agree because your knowledge of our political scene is very poor and atleast 15 years old. There is no ''coup'' happening in Pakistan anytime soon. There is no appetitie in military circles for another coup tamasha. Raheel Shareef, rightly, refused to ask Nawaz to step down, and everyone knows the mutual dislike among the two. Even now Bajwa is widely known as someone who wants Army to be kept away from a situation such as a coup. Zardari's government openly asked for US to intervene but there was no coup and he was on the ropes ten times worse than Nawaz has been anytime in the last 4 years. Why would Army remove Nawaz when he gives them everything he wants? And you talk about agitation? Nawaz and his brother were on the streets every week during Zardari's tenure asking him to be removed and even, now the famous pledge, ''to drag him through the streets''. But, again, you don't know anything of it. Hence why bother winding people up?

There was no ''IK agitation''. Normal people like me came out pouring in the streets because we have had enough of the political mafia running our state. He did not force millions of us to march out.

As for courage, Nawaz was a coward who ran away in exile. There was no real chance of him being executed, anyone with any kind of rudimentary knowledge knows that would never have happened. His nephew stayed, Ishaq Dar (his right hand man) stayed, Javed Hashmi the main man then stayed, all in jails for democracy. THAT is called courage. Even Zardari suffered and stayed in Pakistani jails under Nawaz where it was widely accepted he was tortured. That is called having cojones and courage. But then again, as I said, I doubt you know about anything I am saying. You're just trolling for the sake of it, with having no real knowledge of how things happen in Pakistan. Its the reason I never comment in Modi thread as I have no clue what's happening in India.

 

[Mian]

We are probably not going to agree on the following two points:

1) During IK's agitation, that was the main news in newspapers for weeks/months. This creates political uncertainty which leads to economic uncertainty and discourages investment.

2) The Army may have dirt on Nawaz, but during IK's agitation there was a real threat that the Army would use that agitation as an excuse for a coup against Nawaz. Like Nawaz, when IK is overthrown in a coup, locked in a small cell in which you can neither stand nor lie down, and then exiled will I believe that IK's courage in facing the Army is as much as Nawaz's.

It's funny these perosis with no knowledge of pakistan politics come up to save their buddy nawaz time and time again. I hope you know about nawaz long March during lawyers movement and the call from army chief kayani? Or the memogate drama where nawaz went to court for army against democratic government? Or the release of Raymond? These all examples are from recent past lets not even go back to 90s and 80s where nawaz was the laadla bacha of establishment playing dirty games against Benazir government all the time and was being funded by ISI proved in court and funded by laden.

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] yeh nawaz in perosyon ko itna acha lagta he to india kyun nae lrjaate isko modi ki jaga elect kerlen we don't need this crook

 

[Macho Mann]

Please do share

imran used to escape from dharna at night to sleep at his house and people started mocking him

the media took this story one day and would reach imran's container before he went to sleep. entire pakistani media showed imran dozing off like a baby was being put to sleep with baby monitor or something and PTI fans started to post images of imran's humility and how great a leader he is bla bla and that he is sleeping in the container just like his party workers and not escaping to his house.

but suddenly at midnight media caught imran khan in his car silently running away while his workers were sleeping live

and funny thing is that this drama kept repeating again and again before he was forced to sleep till morning

 

[Pakpak]

It's funny these perosis with no knowledge of pakistan politics come up save their buddy nawaz. I hope you know about nawaz long March during lawyers movement and the call from army chief kayani? Or the memogate drama where nawaz went to court for army against democratic government? Or the release Raymond? These all examples are from recent past lets not even go back to 90s and 80s whetr nawaz was thr laadla bacha of establishment playing dirty games against Benazir government all the time and was being funded by ISI proved in court and funded by laden.

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] yeh nawaz in perosyon ko itna acha lagta he to india kyun nae lrjaate isko modi ki jaga elect kerlen we don't need this crook

The guy knows, as I told him, that Nawaz's party was made by Zia and Nawaz himself served as a minister under an army dicatator. He's on a wind-up, what can we do? The guy above, ''Macho'' man, also made the same absurd points. When he was told of Nawaz's past his reply was ''I can't reply as no time''.

 

[King-Misbah]

Dont take Indians seriously when it comes to Nawaz and Pakistan. May factors points towards Nawaz being their asset and Indians generally do not want Pakistan to do well.

 

[Macho Mann]

The guy knows, as I told him, that Nawaz's party was made by Zia and Nawaz himself served as a minister under an army dicatator. He's on a wind-up, what can we do? The guy above, ''Macho'' man, also made the same absurd points. When he was told of Nawaz's past his reply was ''I can't reply as no time''.

bhutto also served in ayub khan cabinet and was a minister, do you know tht it was bhutto who coaxed ayub khan to invade kashmir which led to 1965 war?

imran khan also demanded 90 seats from ex president musharraf and this was confirmed from miraj khan (video is present on the internet)

 

[Napa]

The guy knows, as I told him, that Nawaz's party was made by Zia and Nawaz himself served as a minister under an army dicatator. He's on a wind-up, what can we do? The guy above, ''Macho'' man, also made the same absurd points. When he was told of Nawaz's past his reply was ''I can't reply as no time''.

Every politician in Pakistan at some point in his career has benefitted from the Army's help.

The point is not to find the perfect politician who does not exist.

The point is to find the best among the alternatives you have. Therefore you must always judge them together rather than individually.

The same is very true in the US. Both Trump and Clinton have massive flaws. Supporters of one would say "Do you know that the other did such and such?" and I would reply "Relevant question is not what one did, but who is better?"

 

[Pakpak]

bhutto also served in ayub khan cabinet and was a minister, do you know tht it was bhutto who coaxed ayub khan to invade kashmir which led to 1965 war?

imran khan also demanded 90 seats from ex president musharraf and this was confirmed from miraj khan (video is present on the internet)

Musharraf offered Imran Khan the PMship, he rejected it. This is basic knowledge.

Bhutto was as corrupt too and is to blame for 71 along with the military.

However there is only one party who was created by the military, and who since then has 30 decades of rules with 3 PMships and that ain't PTI.

 

[Macho Mann]

Musharraf offered Imran Khan the PMship, he rejected it. This is basic knowledge.

Bhutto was as corrupt too and is to blame for 71 along with the military.

However there is only one party who was created by the military, and who since then has 30 decades of rules with 3 PMships and that ain't PTI.

this is a fake and concocted story the reality is pretty much the opposite, it was imran khan who wanted to become PM just listen to imran khan's party leader late miraj khan

 

[Pakpak]

Every politician in Pakistan at some point in his career has benefitted from the Army's help.

The point is not to find the perfect politician who does not exist.

The point is to find the best among the alternatives you have. Therefore you must always judge them together rather than individually.

The same is very true in the US. Both Trump and Clinton have massive flaws. Supporters of one would say "Do you know that the other did such and such?" and I would reply "Relevant question is not what one did, but who is better?"

Not really, the only politicians who haven't are Imran Khan and some of the PMLN leadership. From NRO with Musharraf, to serving under a dicatator bhai Nawaz has done it all. Only foolish thing Imran has ever done is wanting Army to remove Nawaz and he was rightly bashed for it.

Whatever Khan is, it would never be as bad serving under Zia, the worst leader Pakistan has ever had and the godfather of all the terrorist organisations.

 

[Pakpak]

this is a fake and concocted story the reality is pretty much the opposite, it was imran khan who wanted to become PM just listen to imran khan's party leader late miraj khan

What's your proof its fake?

I can't take someone seriously who's defending a PM who SERVED under a dictator vs someone who ''allegedly'' wanted to be PM. Which is nonsense from everyone's knowledge. [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

 

[Macho Mann]

What's your proof its fake?

I can't take someone seriously who's defending a PM who SERVED under a dictator vs someone who ''allegedly'' wanted to be PM. Which is nonsense from everyone's knowledge. [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

the proof tht its fake is PTI's own party leader late miraj khan statement on imran khan begging 90 seats from musharraf and musharraf refusing because he had already created PMLQ

 

[Pakpak]

the proof tht its fake is PTI's own party leader late miraj khan statement on imran khan begging 90 seats from musharraf and musharraf refusing because he had already created PMLQ

He said a lot of things, the guy joined the communist party in the end. If your only proof is a politician bad mouthing another politician after leaving their party (surprise surprise) then good luck!

 

[DW44]

There are so many flaws and loopholes in our system created by our own leaders to use later. The whole system is fixed and they will make sure it remains this way...

Come on man, you and I both know where the particular loophole Davis used to get away comes from and it's not our leaders, as bad as they are.

 

[Pakpak]

Come on man, you and I both know where the particular loophole Davis used to get away comes from and it's not our leaders.

Pretty much.

 

[Mian]

the proof tht its fake is PTI's own party leader late miraj khan statement on imran khan begging 90 seats from musharraf and musharraf refusing because he had already created PMLQ

Oh wait proof from own partt? [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] let's share all the statements of pmlq leader against nawaz during mush era they all came from pmln and why not take all the stories of sheikh rasheed seriously against nawaz after all they had a love relationship when he was the front man of nawaz in 90s

 

[Macho Mann]

He said a lot of things, the guy joined the communist party in the end. If your only proof is a politician bad mouthing another politician after leaving their party (surprise surprise) then good luck!

sorry if you really doubt miraj khan's statement who was one of the most senior leader in PTI and is considered as one of the most reputed ideological politicians then i cant do anything

i have many more thing to share, but as i said, time is constraint, and i dont wanna argue PTI brainwashed workers, i have enough of my share of arguments for a very long time

the arguments cannot change anyone's political view since its like a religion to some people or blind faith

 

[Macho Mann]

Oh wait proof from own partt? [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] let's share all the statements of pmlq leader against nawaz during mush era they all came from pmln and why not take all the stories of sheikh rasheed seriously against nawaz after all they had a love relationship when he was the front man of nawaz in 90s

to compare lota jaagirdar politicians to respected miraj khan is just shameful

 

[Pakpak]

sorry if you really doubt miraj khan's statement who was one of the most senior leader in PTI and is considered as one of the most reputed ideological politicians then i cant do anything

i have many more thing to share, but as i said, time is constraint, and i dont wanna argue PTI brainwashed workers, i have enough of my share of arguments for a very long time

the arguments cannot change anyone's political view since its like a religion to some people or blind faith

''Proof'' from statements used by politicians against politicians shows the extreme level of ''clutching at straws''. Surely even you know that, especially our politicians.

 

[Mian]

sorry if you really doubt miraj khan's statement who was one of the most senior leader in PTI and is considered as one of the most reputed ideological politicians then i cant do anything

i have many more thing to share, but as i said, time is constraint, and i dont wanna argue PTI brainwashed workers, i have enough of my share of arguments for a very long time

the arguments cannot change anyone's political view since its like a religion to some people or blind faith

Sorry but if you doubt Sheikh Rasheed or Ch Shujaat statements against Nawaz than i can't do anything both were senior leaders of PMLN and very close to Nawaz. Today even a well respected man like Zafar Ali Shah and Khosas are exposing Nawaz Sharif they were the most senior guys from his party and stood for him against Mush when nawaz was sitting comfortably in Jeddah.

 

[Mian]

to compare lota jaagirdar politicians to respected miraj khan is just shameful

Oh yea a well respected man like Zafar Ali Shah is a jageedar? Grapes are sour when same example of yours is being used against your argument

 

[Macho Mann]

''Proof'' from statements used by politicians against politicians shows the extreme level of ''clutching at straws''. Surely even you know that, especially our politicians.

do i also tell what edhi said about imran khan and gen hameed gul?

the miraj khan's statement has been 'verified' by pervez musharraf himself who negated tht he offered any PMship to imran and then told this 'fact'

there are many things im not sharing, but there is no benefit as blind followers will keep having blind faith

 

[Pakpak]

do i also tell what edhi said about imran khan and gen hameed gul?

the miraj khan's statement has been 'verified' by pervez musharraf himself who negated tht he offered any PMship to imran and then told this 'fact'

there are many things im not sharing, but there is no benefit as blind followers will keep having blind faith

What Edhi said we all bashed Imran, as far as I know.

Musharraf is hardly going to admit otherwise, all he said was that he did not offer any PMship. Again, if we are going to accept politician vs politician statements as gospel where do we start with Nawaz?

As for blind followers, the day Imran Khan serves with a dictator or the day he embezzles our money I'd spit on his image too.