Pakistan General Elections 2024 - The ins/outs and mechanics

[Rana]

So you think he didn't lose.

Of course he lost,

As I said, he would lose to any random independent because it’s a popularity contest against PTI

 

[Rana]

What is this rule that independent must join a party. Whats the meaning of Independent candidate then.

Lol they are basically independently gathering votes for PPP and PMLN

But PTI happy that they won the votes over the other two parties. This election is an absolute joke.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is my 4th election of Pakistan that i am following here on PP. My understanding of it is this:

1. The establishment will decide the winner.

2. No one will get even a simple majority.

3. No PM will last 5 years.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lol they are basically independently gathering votes for PPP and PMLN

But PTI happy that they won the votes over the other two parties. This election is an absolute joke.

Well let's see. Some will take the money but just look like the losers in the VONC, they will spend the rest of their lives in hiding and be humiliated. If the people have sacrificed so much, they don't expect these guys to take the 30 crore and become political whores. I think you still don't get how angry people are

 

[Bewal Express]

This is my 4th election of Pakistan that i am following here on PP. My understanding of it is this:

1. The establishment will decide the winner.

2. No one will get even a simple majority.

3. No PM will last 5 years.

I think you missed the bit that Munir thinks he is god and like all earthly gods, he will have to hide

 

[JaDed]

This time, we have a very cunning COAS, Asim, who is playing politics like a pro. They have already sidelined IK; now PMLN and PPPP, together with independents, will form the government, and it will be the weakest government. The military might take some extreme steps to eliminate IK once and for all, as they have already provided a chance to the Pakistani public to vote for him. Many seats were rigged in favor of PMLN and also for PTI. The winning of Khoosa is very suspicious.

They have selected only those prominent PMLN candidates who are really close to Shahbaz Sharif, while all those close to NS were neglected, like Rana Sana, Shair Ali, Tanveer, Lateef Khoosa, Khawaja Saad, etc.

NS might get the shock of his life within a few months, as he will be discarded like a used paper, and Shahbaz will take his place, or Bilawal might become PM after some years

Yup Asim clearly was sharp and cunning and as rumored had said the same.

 

[zn426]

This is my 4th election of Pakistan that i am following here on PP. My understanding of it is this:

1. The establishment will decide the winner.

2. No one will get even a simple majority.

3. No PM will last 5 years.

It doesn't suit the establishment's interest to see a PM last five years. If it did they would have allowed it by now.
Same with getting a simple majority as that would allow for Parliament and PM to make real changes which would undermine establishment's power.
And yes, Establishment will decide the winner.
They might have bitten off a bit more than they could chew this time though. Too incompetent and obvious this time.

 

[JaDed]

I think you missed the bit that Munir thinks he is god and like all earthly gods, he will have to hide

I think Pakistanis have been underestimating the Establishment for too long now.

I forgot which Pakistani journalist said it but he said something along the lines.

“Gaadi to Wahin chalate hai, kabhi aage ki seat main bethkar aur kabhi peeche bethkar humein steering pakadne dete haii”

And that’s absolutely true. ISI to Establishment is under one wing for a reason.

 

[Major]

Going oof to bed now.

We will only get to know tomr if Zardari sides with PMLN, PTI or sits in opposition

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think you missed the bit that Munir thinks he is god and like all earthly gods, he will have to hide

Tumse pehle wo jo ek shaksh yaha takht nashin tha,

Usko bhi apne khuda hone pe itna hi yakeen tha,

Koi thehra ho jo logon ke muqaabil to batao,

Vo kahaan hain ki jinhen naaz bahut apne tai tha,

Aaj soye hain tah-e-khaak na jaane yahan kitne

Koi shola koi shabnam koi mahtaab-jabeen tha.

 

[Hextro]

Can you explain what kind of monstrosity or enslavement the people of Pakistan have faced by these two parties? It’s easy to just say these things as if Pakistan is like Iran or Afghanistan that doesn’t allow flexibility in expressing yourself….but what has the PDM and PPP done to the people of Pakistan where they are desperate for freedom like the Iranians or the Afghans?

It's simple, people didn't know what was possible because it was never given to them as an option. I'm not talking about a religious police or communist government, I'm talking about a government/military that convinced people that they should accept their current state. Look at Bangladesh, we suppressed those poor innocent people the same way(or in an even worse way) we are suppressing people now. The Bangladeshis knew their own potential, and look at them now, ahead of Pakistan in almost every parameter. They got rid of our political infrastructure and took off.

What do you think stopped Bangladesh's progress while it was a part of Pakistan? It was the establishment that was leaching off their resources while trying to dictate the terms at the same time, luckily for Bangladesh, someone came up that carried enough weight of his own to change the status quo and rip off the leach.

Bonus, I should probably tell you a bit about PMLN and PPP and their unique quirks which are famous in Pakistan. PMLN is known for prioritizing Lahore over all else since Lahore is their main voter base. They numerous times used Punjab's budget on Lahore leaving little for the rest of Punjab and Pakistan as a whole. PPP on the other hand is famous for using the 18th amendment in their favor and preventing development in Karachi. Despite being the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi only got its first public transport project a few years ago, and that project is still smaller than KPK's BRT, a province that's littered with terrorism. PPP also uses federal lords to influence the population in Sindh, which is one of the poorest in Pakistan and has only gotten poorer over time.

Coming back to Pakistan, people were always frustrated with PMLN, MQM, and PPP taking turns ruling the country for over 30+ years with the odd military dictatorship, Imran emerged as another man who could challenge the status quo, thus he was censored by the government and not taken seriously till 2013 when people's frustrations began to boil over and Imran rode that wave to power in 2018.

Honestly, it's uncomfortable when you change something that was the same for so many decades, it was India's misadventure that boosted Imran and the military's repute enough that people weren't really mad at them despite the macroeconomics of Pakistan taking a hit in 2021, it was the no-confidence motion that reminded everyone of the past 30 decades. When PDM took over they made the WORST economic decisions of Pakistan's history. There were no answers given for why the election kept getting delayed. Inflation reached the highest points in Pakistan's history and the general living standards fell, again, there were no answers or excuses given for any of this because that's the expectation these people have from the people they are ruling. MNAs being bought out during the no-confidence motion also made people feel like their votes meant nothing.

When IK started doing protests and didn't gain much momentum until he got shot in the leg twice, that got him domestic and international attention. The shooter himself was quite suspicious and most people in Pakistan seem to think that the assassination attempt was an inside job.

To make a long story short, IK got arrested at a time when people were already frustrated and the 9th May incident happened where on the ground witnesses claimed that people from the Establishment were instigating violence and the protests got out of control, this was the result of 2 years worth of frustration with the system that has haunted Pakistan since its inception. It was the crackdown post-9th May that reminded people of what happened in 1970 Bangladesh. It's estimated that over 40K PTI supporters were arrested. That includes party members like Asad Umar, Fawad Choudry, etc, basically anyone that openly supported PTI. All that combined adds up to a lot of anger. Teenagers were getting their houses raided and parents beaten up because the kid Tweeted something the military found offensive from a Twitter account with a few thousand followers. I'm not joking, this actually happened, multiple times.

The violence woke people up to the reality of Pakistan. Everything in the country was kept the same for a reason, we were/are living under a shadow dictatorship. Why has the sugar mafia never been taken care of? Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

And now we come to the present day, the frustrations that were built up over the past two years have fueled PTI's election, for which they were not allowed to campaign. People don't want to go back to that 20-30-year cycle where PMLN and PPP take turns ruling while the establishment oversees everything. People finally want independence from the system that was imposed on us since the beginning.

I haven't gone into specifics like model town, or the time when the military fired rockets into Islamabad. Writing about all that would take far too long.

I'm tapping out after writing this much because the history is far too detailed, with too many events to be written in a single post. I hope you get the basic idea of why people are willing to vote for donkeys over PMLN and PPP.

 

[Savak]

IK's downfall started when he refused to take dictation from the Establishment. He wanted to work with them but their intentions was that he will work for them. Things started to deteriorate b/w Bajwa and IK when he refused to listen to him with regards to changing Buzdar in Punjab with Aleem Khan. IK then started to throw his weight around as PM and did not want to appoint Nadeem Anjum as DG ISI.

IK gave a brutal dressing down to Asim Munir when the later during an intelligence operation ordered a hit on a target where his family was murdered as well. Munir also caused a severe diplomatic incident during Pak Iran billateral meetings in Iran where Iran proposed a joint Pakistan Iran border patrol to stop the smuggling of oil and Munir misbehaved with the Iranian counterparts because he along with Faisal Naseer have made $millions from the smuggling of Oil which takes place at the Pak Iran border and it was after this incidence when IK as PM ordered Munir's removal. Munir has not forgotten these episodes and hates IK with a vengeance.

The entire Pakistani Establishment senior leadership is under the cabal of Asim Munir, Nadeem Anjum, Faisal Naseer, Faheem Raza and Co and these people are keeping a very brutal lid on the Establishment and purging soldiers, mid tier officers to stay clear of PTI and IK sympathizing.

Munir wants to govern Pakistan with a Stalin, Saddam Hussein approach and will resort to brutal extra judicial methods to get what he wants.

Nawaz Sharif has video recorded Munir agreeing to help PML N against PTI and helping PML N to power and keeps blackmailing him and succeeds in getting him to get the Establishment to operate like the Punjab Police.

 

[Markhor]

Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

Well said. Pakistan's military reportedly runs around 50 commercial entities worth up to about $26bn including even cereal and cement companies.

Explainer: A historical trail of Pakistan’s powerful military enterprise

How did Pakistan Army grow from 140,000 men in 1947 into the world’s seventh most powerful army, and arguably the country’s “king maker” institution?

theconversation.com

There's an old saying that while most countries have a military, Pakistan's military have a country.

 

[Technics 1210]

It's simple, people didn't know what was possible because it was never given to them as an option. I'm not talking about a religious police or communist government, I'm talking about a government/military that convinced people that they should accept their current state. Look at Bangladesh, we suppressed those poor innocent people the same way(or in an even worse way) we are suppressing people now. The Bangladeshis knew their own potential, and look at them now, ahead of Pakistan in almost every parameter. They got rid of our political infrastructure and took off.

What do you think stopped Bangladesh's progress while it was a part of Pakistan? It was the establishment that was leaching off their resources while trying to dictate the terms at the same time, luckily for Bangladesh, someone came up that carried enough weight of his own to change the status quo and rip off the leach.

Bonus, I should probably tell you a bit about PMLN and PPP and their unique quirks which are famous in Pakistan. PMLN is known for prioritizing Lahore over all else since Lahore is their main voter base. They numerous times used Punjab's budget on Lahore leaving little for the rest of Punjab and Pakistan as a whole. PPP on the other hand is famous for using the 18th amendment in their favor and preventing development in Karachi. Despite being the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi only got its first public transport project a few years ago, and that project is still smaller than KPK's BRT, a province that's littered with terrorism. PPP also uses federal lords to influence the population in Sindh, which is one of the poorest in Pakistan and has only gotten poorer over time.

Coming back to Pakistan, people were always frustrated with PMLN, MQM, and PPP taking turns ruling the country for over 30+ years with the odd military dictatorship, Imran emerged as another man who could challenge the status quo, thus he was censored by the government and not taken seriously till 2013 when people's frustrations began to boil over and Imran rode that wave to power in 2018.

Honestly, it's uncomfortable when you change something that was the same for so many decades, it was India's misadventure that boosted Imran and the military's repute enough that people weren't really mad at them despite the macroeconomics of Pakistan taking a hit in 2021, it was the no-confidence motion that reminded everyone of the past 30 decades. When PDM took over they made the WORST economic decisions of Pakistan's history. There were no answers given for why the election kept getting delayed. Inflation reached the highest points in Pakistan's history and the general living standards fell, again, there were no answers or excuses given for any of this because that's the expectation these people have from the people they are ruling. MNAs being bought out during the no-confidence motion also made people feel like their votes meant nothing.

When IK started doing protests and didn't gain much momentum until he got shot in the leg twice, that got him domestic and international attention. The shooter himself was quite suspicious and most people in Pakistan seem to think that the assassination attempt was an inside job.

To make a long story short, IK got arrested at a time when people were already frustrated and the 9th May incident happened where on the ground witnesses claimed that people from the army were instigating violence and the protests got out of control, this was the result of 2 years worth of frustration with the system that has haunted Pakistan since its inception. It was the crackdown post-9th May that reminded people of what happened in 1970 Bangladesh. It's estimated that over 40K PTI supporters were arrested. That includes party members like Asad Umar, Fawad Choudry, etc, basically anyone that openly supported PTI. All that combined adds up to a lot of anger. Teenagers were getting their houses raided and parents beaten up because the kid Tweeted something the military found offensive from a Twitter account with a few thousand followers. I'm not joking, this actually happened, multiple times.

The violence woke people up to the reality of Pakistan. Everything in the country was kept the same for a reason, we were/are living under a shadow dictatorship. Why has the sugar mafia never been taken care of? Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

And now we come to the present day, the frustrations that were built up over the past two years have fueled PTI's election, for which they were not allowed to campaign. People don't want to go back to that 20-30-year cycle where PMLN and PPP take turns ruling while the establishment oversees everything. People finally want independence from the system that was imposed on us since the beginning.

I haven't gone into specifics like model town, or the time when the military fired rockets into Islamabad. Writing about all that would take far too long.

I'm tapping out after writing this much because the history is far too detailed, with too many events to be written in a single post. I hope you get the basic idea of why people are willing to vote for donkeys over PMLN and PPP.

Post of the month.

 

[mon858]

He have said that he will forgive for crimes against him buy how can forgive these thugs for the murder of Arshad Sharif, Zille Shah and many others. If he does, many like me would ask what was the point of all the sacrifices. So the short answer is no

khalid bin waleed fought wars against prophet SAW and sahaba before becoming sahabi himself. anything can be done. those who passed away are shaheed in the cause of azadi. my point is they will never accept "Defeat" and "punishment". you have to make them feel like they did not lose and will not be held accountable. at some point have to move on for the sake of the country. and then next 5 years you fix all the key institutions, judiciary, ecp, police, education, change laws, etc., so such interference doesn't happen again.

 

[Bewal Express]

khalid bin waleed fought wars against prophet SAW and sahaba before becoming sahabi himself. anything can be done. those who passed away are shaheed in the cause of azadi. my point is they will never accept "Defeat" and "punishment". you have to make them feel like they did not lose and will not be held accountable. at some point have to move on for the sake of the country. and then next 5 years you fix all the key institutions, judiciary, ecp, police, education, change laws, etc., so such interference doesn't happen again.

But he asked for forgiveness and became a Muslim, these guys are never changing. They are addicted to power, they love playing God and there should be no compromise. If we compromise on our core principles, how are we any different from them. We become enablers of their evil.

 

[rpant_gabba]

so its a doom loop with no hope? If this is the behavior of the establishment forever, how did they enjoy public support for such a long time?

 

[Rana]

It's simple, people didn't know what was possible because it was never given to them as an option. I'm not talking about a religious police or communist government, I'm talking about a government/military that convinced people that they should accept their current state. Look at Bangladesh, we suppressed those poor innocent people the same way(or in an even worse way) we are suppressing people now. The Bangladeshis knew their own potential, and look at them now, ahead of Pakistan in almost every parameter. They got rid of our political infrastructure and took off.

What do you think stopped Bangladesh's progress while it was a part of Pakistan? It was the establishment that was leaching off their resources while trying to dictate the terms at the same time, luckily for Bangladesh, someone came up that carried enough weight of his own to change the status quo and rip off the leach.

Bonus, I should probably tell you a bit about PMLN and PPP and their unique quirks which are famous in Pakistan. PMLN is known for prioritizing Lahore over all else since Lahore is their main voter base. They numerous times used Punjab's budget on Lahore leaving little for the rest of Punjab and Pakistan as a whole. PPP on the other hand is famous for using the 18th amendment in their favor and preventing development in Karachi. Despite being the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi only got its first public transport project a few years ago, and that project is still smaller than KPK's BRT, a province that's littered with terrorism. PPP also uses federal lords to influence the population in Sindh, which is one of the poorest in Pakistan and has only gotten poorer over time.

Coming back to Pakistan, people were always frustrated with PMLN, MQM, and PPP taking turns ruling the country for over 30+ years with the odd military dictatorship, Imran emerged as another man who could challenge the status quo, thus he was censored by the government and not taken seriously till 2013 when people's frustrations began to boil over and Imran rode that wave to power in 2018.

Honestly, it's uncomfortable when you change something that was the same for so many decades, it was India's misadventure that boosted Imran and the military's repute enough that people weren't really mad at them despite the macroeconomics of Pakistan taking a hit in 2021, it was the no-confidence motion that reminded everyone of the past 30 decades. When PDM took over they made the WORST economic decisions of Pakistan's history. There were no answers given for why the election kept getting delayed. Inflation reached the highest points in Pakistan's history and the general living standards fell, again, there were no answers or excuses given for any of this because that's the expectation these people have from the people they are ruling. MNAs being bought out during the no-confidence motion also made people feel like their votes meant nothing.

When IK started doing protests and didn't gain much momentum until he got shot in the leg twice, that got him domestic and international attention. The shooter himself was quite suspicious and most people in Pakistan seem to think that the assassination attempt was an inside job.

To make a long story short, IK got arrested at a time when people were already frustrated and the 9th May incident happened where on the ground witnesses claimed that people from the army were instigating violence and the protests got out of control, this was the result of 2 years worth of frustration with the system that has haunted Pakistan since its inception. It was the crackdown post-9th May that reminded people of what happened in 1970 Bangladesh. It's estimated that over 40K PTI supporters were arrested. That includes party members like Asad Umar, Fawad Choudry, etc, basically anyone that openly supported PTI. All that combined adds up to a lot of anger. Teenagers were getting their houses raided and parents beaten up because the kid Tweeted something the military found offensive from a Twitter account with a few thousand followers. I'm not joking, this actually happened, multiple times.

The violence woke people up to the reality of Pakistan. Everything in the country was kept the same for a reason, we were/are living under a shadow dictatorship. Why has the sugar mafia never been taken care of? Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

And now we come to the present day, the frustrations that were built up over the past two years have fueled PTI's election, for which they were not allowed to campaign. People don't want to go back to that 20-30-year cycle where PMLN and PPP take turns ruling while the establishment oversees everything. People finally want independence from the system that was imposed on us since the beginning.

I haven't gone into specifics like model town, or the time when the military fired rockets into Islamabad. Writing about all that would take far too long.

I'm tapping out after writing this much because the history is far too detailed, with too many events to be written in a single post. I hope you get the basic idea of why people are willing to vote for donkeys over PMLN and PPP.

So you are basically arguing that ‘you couldn’t make it’ in Pakistan under all other governments besides the vision provided by IK?

 

[Hextro]

So you are

So you are basically arguing that ‘you couldn’t make it’ in Pakistan under all other governments besides the vision provided by IK?

I wrote all that just for you to reply with this. I give up.

Believe what you want to believe. I couldn't care less honestly.

 

[Rana]

I wrote all that just for you to reply with this. I give up.

Believe what you want to believe. I couldn't care less honestly.

That’s pretty much what I summarised? What is the crux of your argument? Was Pakistan or Pakistanis under extreme oppression under those two parties?

If yes, why were they still in power or winning elections until 2018? What drastically changed for them in 2018-2022?

IMO, you guys are over exaggerating the issue. Yes I admit Pakistan isn’t perfect, but to say PTI or Imran Khan is some kind of Moses for Pakistan is a serious stretch. How has IK or his vision improved the average Pakistani?

 

[Rana]

so its a doom loop with no hope? If this is the behavior of the establishment forever, how did they enjoy public support for such a long time?

Give them a war and they will show you how.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Give them a war and they will show you how.

So basically, establishment has been playing the India bogeyman card to keep the awam at bay?

 

[rpant_gabba]

That’s pretty much what I summarised? What is the crux of your argument? Was Pakistan or Pakistanis under extreme oppression under those two parties?

If yes, why were they still in power or winning elections until 2018? What drastically changed for them in 2018-2022?

IMO, you guys are over exaggerating the issue. Yes I admit Pakistan isn’t perfect, but to say PTI or Imran Khan is some kind of Moses for Pakistan is a serious stretch. How has IK or his vision improved the average Pakistani?

now you have done it!

 

[FearlessRoar]

The happiest thing that happened today is that Diesel lost.

 

[IMMY69]

That’s pretty much what I summarised? What is the crux of your argument? Was Pakistan or Pakistanis under extreme oppression under those two parties?

If yes, why were they still in power or winning elections until 2018? What drastically changed for them in 2018-2022?

IMO, you guys are over exaggerating the issue. Yes I admit Pakistan isn’t perfect, but to say PTI or Imran Khan is some kind of Moses for Pakistan is a serious stretch. How has IK or his vision improved the average Pakistani

There was no argument.
Did you read his post?

 

[Rana]

So basically, establishment has been playing the India bogeyman card to keep the awam at bay?

Well, yeah. How else are they relevant?

 

[Rana]

There was no argument.
Did you read his post?

Well then if there was no argument, what was the answer to my initial question? What is this ‘freedom’ or breaking of the shackles for which IK and only IK is the answer? Sitting outside of Pakistan, every time I’ve gone back I see Pakistan as a pretty free nation with free people…so what is the enslavement? He tried to argue it but that’s all I kind of understood that he wanted to say?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Sialkot Sadar police have registered a case against Istehkam-e-Pakistan Party (IPP) leader Firdous Ashiq Awan for allegedly slapping a policeman deputed at a polling station.

According to the police, Firdous Ashiq Awan had slapped a policeman in Sialkot on Thursday – an election day.

A case has been registered against Firdous Ashiq Awan for slapping a policeman by Sadar Sialkot police on the complaint of ASI Amjad.

According to the FIR, a police official was on election duty at Government High School Gana Kalan in Sialkot NA 70 when Firdous Ashiq Awan misbehaved with the policeman and slapped him.


Source: Dunya News

 

[moghul]

This is the first time in my life time Establishment has been defeated by a politician , that too by a big margin. I know most of the people who go to Establishment are those who are not smart enough to get into some professional college/university but still they are smart enough to engineer the elections to their liking. This Establishment has proved himself to be the dumbest one.

 

[moghul]

Well then if there was no argument, what was the answer to my initial question? What is this ‘freedom’ or breaking of the shackles for which IK and only IK is the answer? Sitting outside of Pakistan, every time I’ve gone back I see Pakistan as a pretty free nation with free people…so what is the enslavement? He tried to argue it but that’s all I kind of understood that he wanted to say?

You're compromising to a very limited freedom. If you're not allowed to pick up your government , journalist has no freedom , judiciary has no freedom , can't question to any corrupt politician or general , what kind of freedom is that. Slaves also have some sort of limited " freedom".

 

[Rana]

You're compromising to a very limited freedom. If you're not allowed to pick up your government , journalist has no freedom , judiciary has no freedom , can't question to any corrupt politician or general , what kind of freedom is that. Slaves also have some sort of limited " freedom".

All of this is questionable

-You can pick your government,

But your government better stay in line with the establishment. I don’t necessarily agree with this, but this is the rule upon which your country is surviving. Ask the establishment to take a hike and watch how you have no country. It’s as simple as that.

-Your journalists are not free?

Was freedom of complete transparency in journalism enabled during IK’s reign as PM? Be honest in your response

-Judiciary

Is their no freedom in the judiciary now because IK has had to bear the brunt of it? Or has this been the case for the past 50-70 years or so? That means all the decisions made by the judiciary (that were also in the favour of PTI) are questionable. So what is it? You want to have your cake and eat it too?

-who says you can’t question corrupt politicians? Go for it, who’s stopping you?


Overall, I feel Pakistanis are not grateful for the freedom they have right now if this is how feel about it. Do you not think that the PMLN or PPP didn’t feel the same way as you feel right now (enslaved apparently) when it was their politicians and party members that were being towed in line? You probably thought they deserved it don’t you?

 

[moghul]

All of this is questionable

-You can pick your government,

But your government better stay in line with the establishment. I don’t necessarily agree with this, but this is the rule upon which your country is surviving. Ask the establishment to take a hike and watch how you have no country. It’s as simple as that.

-Your journalists are not free?

Was freedom of complete transparency in journalism enabled during IK’s reign as PM? Be honest in your response

-Judiciary

Is their no freedom in the judiciary now because IK has had to bear the brunt of it? Or has this been the case for the past 50-70 years or so? That means all the decisions made by the judiciary (that were also in the favour of PTI) are questionable. So what is it? You want to have your cake and eat it too?

-who says you can’t question corrupt politicians? Go for it, who’s stopping you?


Overall, I feel Pakistanis are not grateful for the freedom they have right now if this is how feel about it. Do you not think that the PMLN or PPP didn’t feel the same way as you feel right now (enslaved apparently) when it was their politicians and party members that were being towed in line? You probably thought they deserved it don’t you?

Not sure in which world you're living in. establishment is the main reason Pakistan is in a mess right now and its not getting any better . broke Pakistan by not respecting the mandate of the people of then East Pakistan and playing the same shameful game now .

 

[Rana]

Not sure in which world you're living in. establishementis the main reason Pakistan is in a mess right now and its not getting any better . broke Pakistan by not respecting the mandate of the people of then East Pakistan and playing the same shameful game now .

I’m living in the world where the establishement was all fine and dandy for PTI when you needed their support to come into power in 2018. It’s the same establishement, they’ve just become villains all of sudden have they?

 

[Rana]

so its a doom loop with no hope? If this is the behavior of the establishment forever, how did they enjoy public support for such a long time?

Because they dump him until recently. Before that, they were the the saviours

 

[rpant_gabba]

I’m living in the world where the establishement was all fine and dandy for PTI when you needed their support to come into power in 2018. It’s the same establishement, they’ve just become villains all of sudden have they?

now watch the the mental gymnastics to answer your very plain question.

everything about the establishment was fine till late 2021/S.

 

[Arzy8]

It's simple, people didn't know what was possible because it was never given to them as an option. I'm not talking about a religious police or communist government, I'm talking about a government/military that convinced people that they should accept their current state. Look at Bangladesh, we suppressed those poor innocent people the same way(or in an even worse way) we are suppressing people now. The Bangladeshis knew their own potential, and look at them now, ahead of Pakistan in almost every parameter. They got rid of our political infrastructure and took off.

What do you think stopped Bangladesh's progress while it was a part of Pakistan? It was the establishment that was leaching off their resources while trying to dictate the terms at the same time, luckily for Bangladesh, someone came up that carried enough weight of his own to change the status quo and rip off the leach.

Bonus, I should probably tell you a bit about PMLN and PPP and their unique quirks which are famous in Pakistan. PMLN is known for prioritizing Lahore over all else since Lahore is their main voter base. They numerous times used Punjab's budget on Lahore leaving little for the rest of Punjab and Pakistan as a whole. PPP on the other hand is famous for using the 18th amendment in their favor and preventing development in Karachi. Despite being the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi only got its first public transport project a few years ago, and that project is still smaller than KPK's BRT, a province that's littered with terrorism. PPP also uses federal lords to influence the population in Sindh, which is one of the poorest in Pakistan and has only gotten poorer over time.

Coming back to Pakistan, people were always frustrated with PMLN, MQM, and PPP taking turns ruling the country for over 30+ years with the odd military dictatorship, Imran emerged as another man who could challenge the status quo, thus he was censored by the government and not taken seriously till 2013 when people's frustrations began to boil over and Imran rode that wave to power in 2018.

Honestly, it's uncomfortable when you change something that was the same for so many decades, it was India's misadventure that boosted Imran and the military's repute enough that people weren't really mad at them despite the macroeconomics of Pakistan taking a hit in 2021, it was the no-confidence motion that reminded everyone of the past 30 decades. When PDM took over they made the WORST economic decisions of Pakistan's history. There were no answers given for why the election kept getting delayed. Inflation reached the highest points in Pakistan's history and the general living standards fell, again, there were no answers or excuses given for any of this because that's the expectation these people have from the people they are ruling. MNAs being bought out during the no-confidence motion also made people feel like their votes meant nothing.

When IK started doing protests and didn't gain much momentum until he got shot in the leg twice, that got him domestic and international attention. The shooter himself was quite suspicious and most people in Pakistan seem to think that the assassination attempt was an inside job.

To make a long story short, IK got arrested at a time when people were already frustrated and the 9th May incident happened where on the ground witnesses claimed that people from the army were instigating violence and the protests got out of control, this was the result of 2 years worth of frustration with the system that has haunted Pakistan since its inception. It was the crackdown post-9th May that reminded people of what happened in 1970 Bangladesh. It's estimated that over 40K PTI supporters were arrested. That includes party members like Asad Umar, Fawad Choudry, etc, basically anyone that openly supported PTI. All that combined adds up to a lot of anger. Teenagers were getting their houses raided and parents beaten up because the kid Tweeted something the military found offensive from a Twitter account with a few thousand followers. I'm not joking, this actually happened, multiple times.

The violence woke people up to the reality of Pakistan. Everything in the country was kept the same for a reason, we were/are living under a shadow dictatorship. Why has the sugar mafia never been taken care of? Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

And now we come to the present day, the frustrations that were built up over the past two years have fueled PTI's election, for which they were not allowed to campaign. People don't want to go back to that 20-30-year cycle where PMLN and PPP take turns ruling while the establishment oversees everything. People finally want independence from the system that was imposed on us since the beginning.

I haven't gone into specifics like model town, or the time when the military fired rockets into Islamabad. Writing about all that would take far too long.

I'm tapping out after writing this much because the history is far too detailed, with too many events to be written in a single post. I hope you get the basic idea of why people are willing to vote for donkeys over PMLN and PPP.

Post of the week for me- well done good sir.

 

[BouncerGuy]

This is a fact that no party is in a position to form a govt on its own. They need help and PML N has already started to attract whatever party they can join hands with to make a government.

----------------------------------

Shehbaz Sharif, Asif Ali Zardari discuss political landscape of centre, Punjab

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) President Shehbaz Sharif and Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari had discussed the political landscape of the centre and Punjab.

Former President Asif Ali Zardari held a meeting with PML-N President Shehbaz Sharif. Zardari was also flanked by PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto-Zardari during the 45-minute-long meeting with the former prime minister at the residence of interim Punjab Chief Minister Mohsin Naqvi in Lahore.

Shehbaz Sharif had also conveyed an important message from PML-N supremo Nawaz Sharif to Asif Ali Zardari.

In the meeting, matters in line with power sharing were also discussed.

The discussions were also held to pick up the prime minister and finalise the names of the key federal ministeries.

Earlier, Shehbaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari played vital roles in the formation of the Pakistan Democratic Movement's (PDM) government.

SAMAA

 

[Kianig89]

Despite the rigging PTI ind. have sizable mandate now astute leadership is req. to make it count

 

[moghul]

It's simple, people didn't know what was possible because it was never given to them as an option. I'm not talking about a religious police or communist government, I'm talking about a government/military that convinced people that they should accept their current state. Look at Bangladesh, we suppressed those poor innocent people the same way(or in an even worse way) we are suppressing people now. The Bangladeshis knew their own potential, and look at them now, ahead of Pakistan in almost every parameter. They got rid of our political infrastructure and took off.

What do you think stopped Bangladesh's progress while it was a part of Pakistan? It was the establishment that was leaching off their resources while trying to dictate the terms at the same time, luckily for Bangladesh, someone came up that carried enough weight of his own to change the status quo and rip off the leach.

Bonus, I should probably tell you a bit about PMLN and PPP and their unique quirks which are famous in Pakistan. PMLN is known for prioritizing Lahore over all else since Lahore is their main voter base. They numerous times used Punjab's budget on Lahore leaving little for the rest of Punjab and Pakistan as a whole. PPP on the other hand is famous for using the 18th amendment in their favor and preventing development in Karachi. Despite being the largest city in Pakistan, Karachi only got its first public transport project a few years ago, and that project is still smaller than KPK's BRT, a province that's littered with terrorism. PPP also uses federal lords to influence the population in Sindh, which is one of the poorest in Pakistan and has only gotten poorer over time.

Coming back to Pakistan, people were always frustrated with PMLN, MQM, and PPP taking turns ruling the country for over 30+ years with the odd military dictatorship, Imran emerged as another man who could challenge the status quo, thus he was censored by the government and not taken seriously till 2013 when people's frustrations began to boil over and Imran rode that wave to power in 2018.

Honestly, it's uncomfortable when you change something that was the same for so many decades, it was India's misadventure that boosted Imran and the military's repute enough that people weren't really mad at them despite the macroeconomics of Pakistan taking a hit in 2021, it was the no-confidence motion that reminded everyone of the past 30 decades. When PDM took over they made the WORST economic decisions of Pakistan's history. There were no answers given for why the election kept getting delayed. Inflation reached the highest points in Pakistan's history and the general living standards fell, again, there were no answers or excuses given for any of this because that's the expectation these people have from the people they are ruling. MNAs being bought out during the no-confidence motion also made people feel like their votes meant nothing.

When IK started doing protests and didn't gain much momentum until he got shot in the leg twice, that got him domestic and international attention. The shooter himself was quite suspicious and most people in Pakistan seem to think that the assassination attempt was an inside job.

To make a long story short, IK got arrested at a time when people were already frustrated and the 9th May incident happened where on the ground witnesses claimed that people from the Establishment were instigating violence and the protests got out of control, this was the result of 2 years worth of frustration with the system that has haunted Pakistan since its inception. It was the crackdown post-9th May that reminded people of what happened in 1970 Bangladesh. It's estimated that over 40K PTI supporters were arrested. That includes party members like Asad Umar, Fawad Choudry, etc, basically anyone that openly supported PTI. All that combined adds up to a lot of anger. Teenagers were getting their houses raided and parents beaten up because the kid Tweeted something the military found offensive from a Twitter account with a few thousand followers. I'm not joking, this actually happened, multiple times.

The violence woke people up to the reality of Pakistan. Everything in the country was kept the same for a reason, we were/are living under a shadow dictatorship. Why has the sugar mafia never been taken care of? Why does the military have its own housing, construction, and food companies? And why are these companies subsidized? How come contacts are signed with interest rates that far exceed the global average? I think you get the idea. People realized that the establishment was a thing and that they were the kingmakers. And guess what? They weren't gonna trust someone from outside the system who has proven that he can get too big to control, IK wasn't gonna get another shot from them.

And now we come to the present day, the frustrations that were built up over the past two years have fueled PTI's election, for which they were not allowed to campaign. People don't want to go back to that 20-30-year cycle where PMLN and PPP take turns ruling while the establishment oversees everything. People finally want independence from the system that was imposed on us since the beginning.

I haven't gone into specifics like model town, or the time when the military fired rockets into Islamabad. Writing about all that would take far too long.

I'm tapping out after writing this much because the history is far too detailed, with too many events to be written in a single post. I hope you get the basic idea of why people are willing to vote for donkeys over PMLN and PPP.

Very well said, a sad but true story of last 50-60 years of Pakistan. I grew up in Pakistan and we were told Bengali's were this and than and they were " ghaddar" and Influenced by India for their cessation from Pakistan . But later when I was able to read more into the real story , I sadly found out the facts you described, how the Establishment along with many other character , Bhutto the most important one , caused the breakdown of Pakistan . Luckily for Bengali's they had a leader ( Like we have Imran Khan ) who was bold enough to face the Establishment for his people .

Pakistan has enormous potential for progress but unless we tame the Establishment, things will get from bad to worst. This is just the beginning , hope IK will be successful in freeing the country from the Establishment. People have spoken out , loud and clear , they are ready for the long struggle under the leadership of this great man , Imran Khan.

 

[Major]

Ppp has seem to joined pmln

 

[BouncerGuy]

Ppp has seem to joined pmln

Yes, Zardari and Shehbaz have met to discuss the coalition stuff but still not confirmed yet that it has been finalized. But TBH this is always on the cards now. They will join each other yet against to form PDM 2 which will make things much worse for Pakistan.

PPP built the whole narrative against PML N to win some seats in Punjab and now they are trying to be brothers again. LOL. hypocrisy will be at its peak yet again. These people only want to make money and for that they need to be in government. You guys might have heard the phrase (Musheebat me gadhe ko bhi baap banana parta hai -> means, in the worst of times, you have to be friends with your enemies) or (in the worst of times, you have to make donkey your father).

 

[Kianig89]

tbh this scenario is not bad for PTI keeping in view where they were before 8 Feb. N league is further dented with all veterans like Rana Sanaullah, Javed Latif, Saad Rafique, Talaal's baap all defeated.

With this election keeping PTI aside one can say Bilawal has emerged as a stronger leader than Maryam

 

[BouncerGuy]

Army chief congratulates nation on successful polls

Chief of Army Staff Gen Asim Munir has congratulated the nation on the successful conduct of the 2024 general elections.

In a statement issued by ISPR, Gen Munir also congratulated the caretaker government, Election Commission of Pakistan, political parties and all winning candidates.

“Free and unhindered participation by Pakistani people to exercise their right of vote demonstrated their commitment to democracy and the rule of law as enshrined in Constitution of Pakistan,” the statement says.

“Leadership and personnel of law-enforcement agencies deserve our highest appreciation for creating a safe and secure environment for the electoral process, despite overwhelming odds.

“The constructive role played by national media, civil society, members of civil administration and judiciary enabled the successful conduct of the largest electoral exercise in national history.”​

DAWN

 

[Varun]

Army chief congratulates nation on successful polls

Chief of Army Staff Gen Asim Munir has congratulated the nation on the successful conduct of the 2024 general elections.

In a statement issued by ISPR, Gen Munir also congratulated the caretaker government, Election Commission of Pakistan, political parties and all winning candidates.

“Free and unhindered participation by Pakistani people to exercise their right of vote demonstrated their commitment to democracy and the rule of law as enshrined in Constitution of Pakistan,” the statement says.

“Leadership and personnel of law-enforcement agencies deserve our highest appreciation for creating a safe and secure environment for the electoral process, despite overwhelming odds.

“The constructive role played by national media, civil society, members of civil administration and judiciary enabled the successful conduct of the largest electoral exercise in national history.”​

DAWN

This guy makes a good stand-up comedian.

 

[Mohraheem]

So who won ???? I’m still confused yaar

 

[BouncerGuy]

So who won ???? I’m still confused yaar

Still results of 15 Constituencies left for ECP to announce, but according to the current position, Independents are leading with 99 seats, PMLN at 71.

 

[adi_62941]

Army chief congratulates nation on successful polls

Chief of Army Staff Gen Asim Munir has congratulated the nation on the successful conduct of the 2024 general elections.

In a statement issued by ISPR, Gen Munir also congratulated the caretaker government, Election Commission of Pakistan, political parties and all winning candidates.

“Free and unhindered participation by Pakistani people to exercise their right of vote demonstrated their commitment to democracy and the rule of law as enshrined in Constitution of Pakistan,” the statement says.

“Leadership and personnel of law-enforcement agencies deserve our highest appreciation for creating a safe and secure environment for the electoral process, despite overwhelming odds.

“The constructive role played by national media, civil society, members of civil administration and judiciary enabled the successful conduct of the largest electoral exercise in national history.”​

DAWN

Atleast they have stopped coming up on TV every now and then like they used to before 2022. ISPR already warra hua hai. They are not releasing any stupid songs and dramas online now.
Some blessings in disguise.

 

[chinaman00]

Quite an interesting analysis

“
The pattern needs to be read carefully: All PTI's probable candidates for KP CM slot have lost especially @Jhagra. Not a single National Assembly candidate of PTI has won in Karachi, Rawalpindi. Look at Jhelum where PTI was sweeping in exit polls and given the massive turn out it had on elections day.

Next: Independent candidates of PTI will be pressurized with every trick of trade to join PPP or PML-N or create a group to join new Govt. Unending litigation and procedural hiccups for those PTI candidates who seek court orders for justice.

It will be made sure that PTI-backed don't join any party or they get party symbol anytime soon to keep their number in NA static hence no reserve seats for women.

Just look at MQM. Unbelievably, over a dozen seats awarded to them in Karachi to keep them afloat in federal and "use" them as a bargaining chip to keep ruling coalition on their toes.”

https://x.com/i/web/status/1756191601381224598

 

[BouncerGuy]

Quite an interesting analysis

“
The pattern needs to be read carefully: All PTI's probable candidates for KP CM slot have lost especially @Jhagra. Not a single National Assembly candidate of PTI has won in Karachi, Rawalpindi. Look at Jhelum where PTI was sweeping in exit polls and given the massive turn out it had on elections day.

Next: Independent candidates of PTI will be pressurized with every trick of trade to join PPP or PML-N or create a group to join new Govt. Unending litigation and procedural hiccups for those PTI candidates who seek court orders for justice.

It will be made sure that PTI-backed don't join any party or they get party symbol anytime soon to keep their number in NA static hence no reserve seats for women.

Just look at MQM. Unbelievably, over a dozen seats awarded to them in Karachi to keep them afloat in federal and "use" them as a bargaining chip to keep ruling coalition on their toes.”

https://x.com/i/web/status/1756191601381224598

That is some analysis and he is right with each word said. MQM has just been made to win so that they can make or break governments if they go out of hands of the establishment. Well played.

 

[adi_62941]

Zardari and NS will be the top getter of this elections. Zardari will be able to revive PPP in punjab by forming a coalition government with PMLN and maybe pushing bilawal more further to PM post and getting him necessary experience for future PM post.

PMLN will be very much eliminated in next elections as NS is already old out dated now and other family members lacks that charisma to be a called a replacement of PMLN party. Maybe they can revive this party by naming someone outsider as head but that not gonna happen in this century.

NS on the other hand is extremely conscious to become 4th time PM at any cost in order to revive his reputation as a all time best political leader next to jinnah. Nobody in a history has such success as NS.

My prediction is that he will become PM for a year or so and then hand it over to someone else. He just wanted to prove a point here by becoming PM again.

 

[chinaman00]

That is some analysis and he is right with each word said. MQM has just been made to win so that they can make of break governments if they go out of hands of the establishment. Well played.

The blatant disregard for the will of the people by the Pakistan establishment is just so astonishing. The blatant rigging where losers were made winners overnight through absurd maths proves both the incompetency of the Pakistan establishment and their desperation.

I hope the Pakistani nation never accepts these riggings.

 

[IMMY69]

The blatant disregard for the will of the people by the Pakistan establishment is just so astonishing. The blatant rigging where losers were made winners overnight through absurd maths proves both the incompetency of the Pakistan establishment and their desperation.

I hope the Pakistani nation never accepts these riggings.

Well this was already predicted after the "absurd" court decisions against IK, his wife and other PTI stalwarts.

The judiciary has proven the country is lawless for the establishment so the very blatant rigging should be no surprise.

The country is under martial law, PPP/PMLN are the stooges and this status quo will remain so with disregard to what the people want.

Meanwhile, the country will continue to be looted and the poor will remain suppressed and millions more will die due to poverty and of health care.

 

[BouncerGuy]

These elections have started a wave against the corrupt guys who want nothing but to loot the people and want all the power to press the opposing parties. This wave is not going to stop any time soon now. IA

 

[IMMY69]

These elections have started a wave against the corrupt guys who want nothing but to loot the people and want all the power to press the opposing parties. This wave is not going to stop any time soon now. IA

IA

 

[BouncerGuy]

MOFA rejects global objections on Pakistan's Elections 2024

Ministry of Foriegn Affairs spokesperson on Saturday took note of statements from certain countries and organizations on the general elections held in Pakistan and said: "We are surprised by the negative tone of some of these statements, which neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process, nor acknowledge the free and enthusiastic exercise of the right to vote by tens of millions of Pakistanis."

The FO spokesperson said:: "hese statements ignore the undeniable fact that Pakistan has held general elections, peacefully and successfully, while dealing with serious security threats resulting primarily from foreign sponsored terrorism."

"Some statements are not even factual. There was no nationwide internet shutdown. Only mobile services were suspended for the day to avoid terrorist incidents on the polling day. The elections exercise has demonstrated that the concerns of many commentators were misplaced," the FO statement claimed.

The MOFA spokesperson said: "Pakistan held the elections as part of its commitment to building a stable and democratic society. While we value constructive advice from our friends, making negative commentary even before the completion of electoral process is neither constructive nor objective."

The statement reads, "Pakistan will continue to work towards building a vibrant democratic polity. Every election and peaceful transition of power brings us closer to that goal. We do this not on account of the concerns expressed by others but because that is the aspiration of our people and the vision of our founding fathers."

SAMAA

 

[Bewal Express]

MOFA rejects global objections on Pakistan's Elections 2024

Ministry of Foriegn Affairs spokesperson on Saturday took note of statements from certain countries and organizations on the general elections held in Pakistan and said: "We are surprised by the negative tone of some of these statements, which neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process, nor acknowledge the free and enthusiastic exercise of the right to vote by tens of millions of Pakistanis."

The FO spokesperson said:: "hese statements ignore the undeniable fact that Pakistan has held general elections, peacefully and successfully, while dealing with serious security threats resulting primarily from foreign sponsored terrorism."

"Some statements are not even factual. There was no nationwide internet shutdown. Only mobile services were suspended for the day to avoid terrorist incidents on the polling day. The elections exercise has demonstrated that the concerns of many commentators were misplaced," the FO statement claimed.

The MOFA spokesperson said: "Pakistan held the elections as part of its commitment to building a stable and democratic society. While we value constructive advice from our friends, making negative commentary even before the completion of electoral process is neither constructive nor objective."

The statement reads, "Pakistan will continue to work towards building a vibrant democratic polity. Every election and peaceful transition of power brings us closer to that goal. We do this not on account of the concerns expressed by others but because that is the aspiration of our people and the vision of our founding fathers."

SAMAA

As the World laughs these clowns look even more pathetic

 

[Hextro]

Well then if there was no argument, what was the answer to my initial question? What is this ‘freedom’ or breaking of the shackles for which IK and only IK is the answer?

Freedom from the establishment that has been manipulating Pakistan's politics and using the civilians' money as their own. The same thing they were doing in Bangladesh. Making policies that negatively impact the average Pakistanis for personal gain. Like eating up Pakistan's reserves to prop up the PKR for the short term making Pakistan almost go bankrupt in 2018, before we had to decrease our currency's value because we didn't have enough reserves to pay off our loans. Things like that.

Imran Khan is the only party leader who's actively against the establishment out of everyone contesting. He wouldn't be in prison otherwise.

And as I mentioned before, IK isn't one of the big 2 that has been ruling Pakistan for nearly 3 decades, he's a guy from outside the system.

There's no other politician in Pakistan who is popular enough to take on the state machinery except IK. Not like anyone else will be willing to either since they have been the beneficiaries of the establishment for as long as Pakistan has existed.

Sitting outside of Pakistan, every time I’ve gone back I see Pakistan as a pretty free nation with free people…so what is the enslavement?

Unless you believe that freedom is anything above being a literal slave (you'll find many in rural Sindh and Punjab), then the people in Pakistan have very little freedom. If you read my original comment, which I doubt you've read or understood, then you would've quickly surmised that I did in fact reference some freedoms that were taken away per and post the no-confidence motion. Tweets deemed offensive can get you arrested and holding an unfavorable opinion of the armed forces is another way to get sentenced, or killed in the case of Arshad Sharif and a few other journalists.

The closure of the internet every time a certain political party is streaming on Twitter is not something that doesn't happen where you live, right?

Here are Pakistan's scores in the World Press Index over the years:

2020 - Score 54.48(World rank 145), PTI

2021 - Score 53.14(World rank 145), PTI

2022 - Score 37.99(World rank 157, one place lower than Afg that year), PDM

2023 - Score 39.95(World rank 150), PDM

According to WPI's methodology, 0-40 means very serious, 40-55 means difficult, and 55-70 means problematic.

You're calling the worst category in this list "free".

In 2023, Pakistan ranks only 2 places higher than Afghanistan in this Index. It isn't just the censorship of PDM's rivals that dropped Pakistan's press freedom ranking, the killing of multiple journalists was the main contributing factor.

I wanted to do all the PTI comparisons at the beginning to end your whataboutism before it began.

This election itself is a perfect example of Pakistan not being free. PTI was not allowed to campaign for this election the same way PMLN and PPP were. PTI got their election symbol snatched away and their candidates had to run in the elections as independents. Internet and phone services were cut during the elections stopping people from even finding out their constituency's PTI candidate and their symbol. Form 45 results are being contradicted with open rigging.

All that sounds very free to me.

All the evidence via Form 45 points to a landslide victory for PTI and yet it is being stolen in plain sight. The people's choice matters, if they aren't allowed to decide who they can elect, then they are living in a dictatorship.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The Foreign Office said on Saturday that it was "surprised" by the negative tone of some statements from foreign countries and organisations over the February 8 general elections held in Pakistan.

In a statement, the FO said it had "taken note" of such statements.

Western capitals on Friday called into question the "undue restrictions" put in place during the February 8 elections in Pakistan and expressed concern over allegations of vote-rigging, but pledged to work with whoever formed the next government.

The United States, the United Kingdom and the European Union, in their separate statements, called upon the relevant Pakistani authorities to ensure a timely and full investigation of all the reported irregularities in Thursday’s elections.

"We are surprised by the negative tone of some of these statements, which neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process nor acknowledge the free and enthusiastic exercise of the right to vote by tens of millions of Pakistanis," said the statement by FO Spokesperson Mumtaz Zahra Baloch.

The spokesperson maintained that the statements "ignore" that elections were held in Pakistan peacefully and successfully while mitigating "serious security threats resulting primarily from foreign-sponsored terrorism".

The FO added that some statements were not factual as there was no nationwide internet shutdown and only mobile services were suspended due to terror threats on election day.

"The elections exercise has demonstrated that the concerns of many commentators were misplaced."

The spokesperson said while advice is valued, the criticism was neither constructive nor objective as the electoral process has not been completed.

"Pakistan held the elections as part of its commitment to building a stable and democratic society."

Concluding the statement, the FO maintained that Pakistan will continue working towards building a "vibrant democratic polity".

"Every election and peaceful transition of power brings us closer to that goal. We do this not on account of the concerns expressed by others but because that is the aspiration of our people and the vision of our founding fathers."

Source: Express Tribune

Criticism by foreign capitals neither constructive, objective: FO | The Express Tribune

FO 'suprised' by negative tone of foreign statements on polls

tribune.com.pk

 

[FearlessRoar]

PTI calls on party workers to protest outside RO offices where results ‘delayed’

PTI leader Barrister Gohar Ali Khan has called on party workers and supporters to hold a protest tomorrow outside the offices of returning officers in constituencies where the poll results were being “withheld and delayed”.

“According to [Imran] Khan sahib’s instructions, the areas in which our results were withheld and delayed — we will share that list with you — and intentionally our majority is being converted… to turn a winning seat into a defeat.

“This is why, God-willing, the areas in which the results were not declared, we will hold protests tomorrow in those constituencies outside the relevant RO offices.”

Gohar added that the protest would be peaceful, urging party workers and supporters to protest “according to the law”, adding that it was a constitutional right.

Dawn

 

[FearlessRoar]

Re-poll to be held in 26 polling stations of NA-88 on Feb 15

According to the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP), a re-poll would be conducted in Punjab’s NA-88 for 26 polling stations on Feb 15.

Earlier, a Dawn report had stated, “In NA-88, Khushab, Moazam Kallu, an independent candidate, was elected.” It had said he was also affiliated with the PML-N.

Dawn

 

[FearlessRoar]

PM rules out ‘political motive’ behind mobile network suspension on election day

Caretaker premier Anwaarul Haq Kakar has said that there was no political motive behind communications blackout on the election day, adding that people were able to peacefully exercise their right to vote.

In an interview with TRT World, he emphasised that the government’s primary responsibility has always been the security and well-being of the people.

Referring to two violent incidents occurring in Balochistan the day before the election, he highlighted the ongoing security challenges faced by the government.

He further stated that part of addressing these challenges involved temporarily blocking communication channels to counter terrorist activities.

Dawn

 

[Bewal Express]

PM rules out ‘political motive’ behind mobile network suspension on election day

Caretaker premier Anwaarul Haq Kakar has said that there was no political motive behind communications blackout on the election day, adding that people were able to peacefully exercise their right to vote.

In an interview with TRT World, he emphasised that the government’s primary responsibility has always been the security and well-being of the people.

Referring to two violent incidents occurring in Balochistan the day before the election, he highlighted the ongoing security challenges faced by the government.

He further stated that part of addressing these challenges involved temporarily blocking communication channels to counter terrorist activities.

Dawn

When the PTI have a jalsa, it was turned off, when the PTI do anything online its turned off, when the elections start we have it turned off.

 

[shortbread]

The Foreign Office said on Saturday that it was "surprised" by the negative tone of some statements from foreign countries and organisations over the February 8 general elections held in Pakistan.

In a statement, the FO said it had "taken note" of such statements.

"We are surprised by the negative tone of some of these statements, which neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process nor acknowledge the free and enthusiastic exercise of the right to vote by tens of millions of Pakistanis," said the statement by FO Spokesperson Mumtaz Zahra Baloch.

Not a lot of bright people in the FO it looks like. What does 'neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process' mean? Is the FO saying that these nations have zero experience holding elections?!

Or are they trying to say these western nations do not understand the complexity of running a military dictatorship under the guise of pseudo-democracy? The latter I understand and can completely sympathise with them.

 

[FearlessRoar]

In a statement issued today, Matthew Miller, Department Spokesperson, addressed the recent elections in Pakistan, emphasizing the importance of upholding democratic principles while expressing concerns over reported irregularities.

Millions of Pakistanis made their voices heard by voting in Pakistan’s elections on February 8, with record numbers of Pakistani women, members of religious and ethnic minority groups, and youth registered,” said Miller. “We commend Pakistani poll workers, civil society, journalists, and election observers for their work to protect and uphold Pakistan’s democratic and electoral institutions. We now look forward to timely, complete results that reflect the will of the Pakistani people.”

However, Miller also highlighted concerns raised by international and local election observers regarding restrictions on freedoms of expression, association, and peaceful assembly. “We join credible international and local election observers in their assessment that these elections included undue restrictions,” he stated. “Claims of interference or fraud should be fully investigated.”

Despite these concerns, the United States remains committed to working with the next Pakistani government, irrespective of political affiliation, to advance shared interests. “We look forward to bolstering our partnership by supporting Pakistan’s economy through trade and investment,” Miller affirmed. “We will continue to support Pakistan in strengthening its democratic institutions, engaging through the U.S.-Pakistan Green Alliance Framework, broadening people-to-people ties, and promoting human rights, including freedom of expression.”

Miller concluded by reiterating the US commitment to security cooperation with Pakistan. “We are also committed to strengthening our security cooperation and creating an environment of safety and security that affords the Pakistani people the peace, democracy, and progress they deserve,” he stated.

Source: ARY

US ready to work with new Pakistani govt

In a statement issued today, Matthew Miller, Department Spokesperson, addressed the recent elections in Pakistan, emphasizing the importance of upholding

arynews.tv

 

[Hextro]

After recounting in Shangla, PML N Amir Muqaam has lost his NA-11 seat. PTI wins.

According to media and people on Twitter.

 

[Bewal Express]

Not a lot of bright people in the FO it looks like. What does 'neither take into account the complexity of the electoral process' mean? Is the FO saying that these nations have zero experience holding elections?!

Or are they trying to say these western nations do not understand the complexity of running a military dictatorship under the guise of pseudo-democracy? The latter I understand and can completely sympathise with them.

Establishment is expert in holding elections- other countries have no idea about the complexities

 

[FearlessRoar]

General Election results update by ECP so far.

 

[Hextro]

Freedom from the establishment that has been manipulating Pakistan's politics and using the civilians' money as their own. The same thing they were doing in Bangladesh. Making policies that negatively impact the average Pakistanis for personal gain. Like eating up Pakistan's reserves to prop up the PKR for the short term making Pakistan almost go bankrupt in 2018, before we had to decrease our currency's value because we didn't have enough reserves to pay off our loans. Things like that.

Imran Khan is the only party leader who's actively against the establishment out of everyone contesting. He wouldn't be in prison otherwise.

And as I mentioned before, IK isn't one of the big 2 that has been ruling Pakistan for nearly 3 decades, he's a guy from outside the system.

There's no other politician in Pakistan who is popular enough to take on the state machinery except IK. Not like anyone else will be willing to either since they have been the beneficiaries of the establishment for as long as Pakistan has existed.



Unless you believe that freedom is anything above being a literal slave (you'll find many in rural Sindh and Punjab), then the people in Pakistan have very little freedom. If you read my original comment, which I doubt you've read or understood, then you would've quickly surmised that I did in fact reference some freedoms that were taken away per and post the no-confidence motion. Tweets deemed offensive can get you arrested and holding an unfavorable opinion of the armed forces is another way to get sentenced, or killed in the case of Arshad Sharif and a few other journalists.

The closure of the internet every time a certain political party is streaming on Twitter is not something that doesn't happen where you live, right?

Here are Pakistan's scores in the World Press Index over the years:

2020 - Score 54.48(World rank 145), PTI

2021 - Score 53.14(World rank 145), PTI

2022 - Score 37.99(World rank 157, one place lower than Afg that year), PDM

2023 - Score 39.95(World rank 150), PDM

According to WPI's methodology, 0-40 means very serious, 40-55 means difficult, and 55-70 means problematic.

You're calling the worst category in this list "free".

In 2023, Pakistan ranks only 2 places higher than Afghanistan in this Index. It isn't just the censorship of PDM's rivals that dropped Pakistan's press freedom ranking, the killing of multiple journalists was the main contributing factor.

I wanted to do all the PTI comparisons at the beginning to end your whataboutism before it began.

This election itself is a perfect example of Pakistan not being free. PTI was not allowed to campaign for this election the same way PMLN and PPP were. PTI got their election symbol snatched away and their candidates had to run in the elections as independents. Internet and phone services were cut during the elections stopping people from even finding out their constituency's PTI candidate and their symbol. Form 45 results are being contradicted with open rigging.

All that sounds very free to me.

All the evidence via Form 45 points to a landslide victory for PTI and yet it is being stolen in plain sight. The people's choice matters, if they aren't allowed to decide who they can elect, then they are living in a dictatorship.

Twitter is currently blocked in many areas of Pakistan. And that guy was asking me about what "freedoms" Pakistanis lack.

What a joke.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Why has the government blocked Twitter? It's not working.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Why has the government blocked Twitter? It's not working.

A nation-scale disruption of social media platform X, formerly Twitter, is being reported by users and internet watchdogs in Pakistan on Saturday.

NetBlocks, a global internet watchdog, said the incident comes "amid political turmoil after a controversial election held under an internet and mobile network blackout".

Pakistan on Thursday witnessed a countrywide shutdown of internet and cellular phone services during the polling process with the authorities attributing the move "to maintain law and order" in the wake of the violence that occurred a day earlier.

However, the suspension was denounced by Amnesty International, which described it as a “reckless attack on people’s rights”, as well as experts and political stakeholders, particularly the PTI, a political party that relied heavily on social media platforms for its electoral campaign.

In the run-up to the February 8 elections in Pakistan, the country suffered from multiple internet disruptions and slow-downs. The interim government justified the disruptions as 'technical glitches'.

Just earlier today, the Foreign Office denied that there was any wide-scale internet disruption on polling day.

It must be noted that all internet shutdowns have coincided with virtual events organised by the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI).

Source: Express Tribune

Internet watchdog reports nation-scale disruption of social media | The Express Tribune

Incident comes 'amid political turmoil after a controversial election', says NetBlocks

tribune.com.pk

 

[Hextro]

Hammad Azhar on Twitter - "Some RO’s going round asking candidates to commit to join PMLN and then they will recount and issue authentic result as per form 45. Otherwise they will temper records and their applications will be either rejected by courts or stuck at election tribunals indefinitely."

 

[I think therfore I am]

This is my 4th election of Pakistan that i am following here on PP. My understanding of it is this:

1. The establishment will decide the winner.

2. No one will get even a simple majority.

3. No PM will last 5 years.

Pakistan is the definition of a true banana republic.

 

[Hextro]

After recounting in Shangla, PML N Amir Muqaam has lost his NA-11 seat. PTI wins.

According to media and people on Twitter.

Update - The recounting application at NA-11 has been rejected. PMLN Amir Muqam still stands as the leading candidate from here. PTI Syed Fareen lost despite the irrgularties in the 47 Form.

 

[Bewal Express]

Hammad Azhar on Twitter - "Some RO’s going round asking candidates to commit to join PMLN and then they will recount and issue authentic result as per form 45. Otherwise they will temper records and their applications will be either rejected by courts or stuck at election tribunals indefinitely."

NS and Establishment and have destroyed any last bit of dignity of the system. The bad thing is that we aren't close to the bottom of the sewer.

 

[Sher Khan]

I am sick of this farce. We never learn. This was a golden opportunity to set things right. Allow a democratically elected party their right to form government how hard is it.

Everything from politics to cricket is rotten to the core in Pakistan. I feel sorry for people that live there.

 

[Kianig89]

so millions wasted on elections from a country near bankruptcy very insightful

 

[Rana]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1756310409307373601

PTI or the party who snaps up the INDs?

Whose this lunatic joining btw?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The rigging in Karachi was worse than what happened in Punjab. MQM has very little support, yet they won the majority of seats. In terms of popularity its PTI, and then JI.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am sick of this farce. We never learn. This was a golden opportunity to set things right. Allow a democratically elected party their right to form government how hard is it.

Everything from politics to cricket is rotten to the core in Pakistan. I feel sorry for people that live there.

When you have a party that couldn't win 20 legitimate seats, a party where all the leadership got smashed, and then claims it won because Establishment fears for his own future and uses them, then as a country you have no chance. NS had the chance to make up for his mistakes and come out and say, the country has spoken and IK has our support. Let's work together on constitutional issues such as COAS extension, which should be banned.

 

[Bewal Express]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1756310409307373601

PTI or the party who snaps up the INDs?

Whose this lunatic joining btw?

So you don't describe any murderers, kidnapper, and other thug as a lunatic but only this guy. Is it because those evil guys are the " We" you referred to. You must feel humiliated this week. All your sacred cows slaughtered