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Pakistan vs Bangladesh | 1st Test | Rawalpindi | Feb 7-11, 2020 | Day 1 Thread

tyron_woodley said:
shaheen afridi. take a bow sir. what a bowler he is. As long as he is managed well this boy is destined to be a great player. ATG potential.
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Don't get me wrong but if him taking a couple wickets in the morning against an ATG BD team makes you this excited then God knows what you will do if he gets a five fer or something.

I keep hearing about his ATG potential but yet to see a decent performance against good teams in any format. I am not a stats and spreadsheets guy so people are welcome to seal my mouth with facts.
 
Hyperion66 said:
Don't get me wrong but if him taking a couple wickets in the morning against an ATG BD team makes you this excited then God knows what you will do if he gets a five fer or something.

I keep hearing about his ATG potential but yet to see a decent performance against good teams in any format. I am not a stats and spreadsheets guy so people are welcome to seal my mouth with facts.
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that's why I said there is potential. he showed how good he is when he destroyed England and n.z in the world cup.
 
Naseem need atleast 2 years of international cricket to become a consistent bowler. Good thing for him is that he has showed enought ability and talent to be stick with.
 
Naseem should not be an automatic right now he needs couple of A tours and has to be rotated with Hasan Ali/ 2nd spinner.
 
Should have batted first and put Bangladesh out of the game on the first two days.

The pitch looks very good to bat on.
 
Naseem is an example of PCB forcefully hyping someone with dishonest marketing.

He is roughly the same age as Shaheen but far behind in terms of development. He is not ready for Test cricket and needs at least one full domestic season.
 
Bowling has been good in some parts but also a few two many bad balls.

95/3 at lunch - Honours even.
 
Terrible decision to bowl first. Bangladesh have been provided an opportunity to compete here.
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is an example of PCB forcefully hyping someone with dishonest marketing.

He is roughly the same age as Shaheen but far behind in terms of development. He is not ready for Test cricket and needs at least one full domestic season.
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Didn't he pick a fifer recently against Sri Lanka ?
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is an example of PCB forcefully hyping someone with dishonest marketing.

He is roughly the same age as Shaheen but far behind in terms of development. He is not ready for Test cricket and needs at least one full domestic season.
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Naseem is from a different u 19 batch to Shaheen and is minimum 1-2 younger then him which is a big difference at this stage of the career I agree with you he is not ready but even if he is 19-20 how many boys of this age bowl this pace with movement in and out .

Naseem has huge potential but Pakistan has to develop him well as he is far from finished product and can go pear shaped quite easily.
 
Pak wins the first session. Batting should get easier in the second session. If BD doesn't loose any early wickets, it can get to 170+ in the next session.
 
Mesozoic said:
Didn't he pick a fifer recently against Sri Lanka ?
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Weak lineup. Even if he picks a 5-fer today I will still say the same.

Naseem has raw ingredients but at the moment, he is not ready to play against Australia, India, England, New Zealand etc.

He needs to improve and develop and that is why he needs more FC experience.
 
Knives out for a bowling attack, with two teen pacers, on a flat wicket on Day 1 of a test.

Pakistan fans :salute
 
Mamoon said:
Weak lineup. Even if he picks a 5-fer today I will still say the same.

Naseem has raw ingredients but at the moment, he is not ready to play against Australia, India, England, New Zealand etc.

He needs to improve and develop and that is why he needs more FC experience.
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Which india are you talking about ?The one i know doesn't play test cricket with Pakistan from last 11 years .if you are talking about odi or t20 he is yet to debut for Pakistan and it not confirm he will be in asia cup(t20 format) which features india
 
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Mamoon said:
Weak lineup. Even if he picks a 5-fer today I will still say the same.

Naseem has raw ingredients but at the moment, he is not ready to play against Australia, India, England, New Zealand etc.

He needs to improve and develop and that is why he needs more FC experience.
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But what options have you got other than him ? Amir and Wahab are retired and the next best options are Imran khan sr and Musa, who looked club level in Australia. Shaheen and Naseem are the best options for Pak right now as far as Tests are concerned.
 
saeed5646 said:
Which india are you talking about ?The one i know doesn't play test cricket with Pakistan from last 11 years .if you are talking about odi or t20 he is yet to debut for Pakistan and it not confirm he will feature in asia cup(t20 format) which features india
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I was referring to top sides in general. If he were to play against India both him and Shaheen would get stress fractures from bowling for 2 full days and conceding 600+ runs.
 
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Mesozoic said:
But what options have you got other than him ? Amir and Wahab are retired and the next best options are Imran khan sr and Musa, who looked club level in Australia. Shaheen and Naseem are the best options for Pak right now as far as Tests are concerned.
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That’s the job of the selectors. If Naseem, Imran and Musa are the best Test pacers in the country after Shaheen and Abbas, we are a lot worse than I think.
 
tyron_woodley said:
that's why I said there is potential. he showed how good he is when he destroyed England and n.z in the world cup.
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You gotta be kidding me right? He didn't even play against England in the wc, was temporarily dropped due to mediocre performance against England before the wc. He did good against NZ and took 3 wickets if that excited you this much and gave you ATG vibes then you'll have unbelievably low standard for fast bowling sorry to say.
 
Mesozoic said:
But what options have you got other than him ? Amir and Wahab are retired and the next best options are Imran khan sr and Musa, who looked club level in Australia. Shaheen and Naseem are the best options for Pak right now as far as Tests are concerned.
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Please stop trying to understand Pakistan fans who would like XYZ removed, rejected or dropped, while providing no possible alternative solutions.

It's an epidemic that afflicts the whole population. People are making very good money doing exactly that on TV channels.

Our back-up pacers are Imran Khan snr, Rahat Ali, Ehsan Adil or Tabish Khan. Shaheen and Naseem are our best hope going forward, given the fact that our domestic pitches in the last five years have made heroes out of trundlers.
 
Amazing how casually people throw around terms like 'ATG talent' 'ATG Potential' these days. Not sure about quality of cricket but the standard of fans have surely gone down post 2000.
 
Mamoon said:
I was referring to top sides in general. If he were to play against India both him and Shaheen would get stews fractures from bowling for 2 full days and conceding 600+ runs.
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Alot of ifs and buts
India is no 1 test side their is no denial in that but pretty premature to think india will play test with Pakistan anytime soon.
 
Hyperion66 said:
Amazing how casually people throw around terms like 'ATG talent' 'ATG Potential' these days. Not sure about quality of cricket but the standard of fans have surely gone down post 2000.
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There's no such thing as 'ATG potential'. There is potential to succeed in international cricket, that's it.

Shaheen and Naseem have that.
 
For first time ever in history of PP Mamoon is talking sense Naseem is a little to raw for test cricket and needs development from an experience point of view of playing more domesic cricket and also we dont want burn out or injuries so early in his career.

At same time if he is to continue to be picked this is where Abbas and Waqar as senior bowler and coach respectively need to help naseem with his development.

a test series in UK in early summer is not somewhere we can afford any of our bowlers to be having very bad days with the ball in conditions will be helpful to the bowlers.
 
The team management have deluded themselves into believing that we now have a pace attack that can win us matches against good batting sides.

We clearly don’t, it is still one of the worst attacks in the world minus Shaheen. This drama of bowling first on decent batting wickets needs to end. It will backfire big time against the superior sides.

You might get away with against a weak Bangladesh lineup without their two best batsmen, but that’s about it.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Please stop trying to understand Pakistan fans who would like XYZ removed, rejected or dropped, while providing no possible alternative solutions.

It's an epidemic that afflicts the whole population. People are making very good money doing exactly that on TV channels.

Our back-up pacers are Imran Khan snr, Rahat Ali, Ehsan Adil or Tabish Khan. Shaheen and Naseem are our best hope going forward, given the fact that our domestic pitches in the last five years have made heroes out of trundlers.
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Agree. People are too impatient over here.
They want to drop Imam ul Haq (easily the second best Pak batter in ODIs) , Hafeez (arguably the most imp Pak T20 batsman) and Naseem, who've picked a fifer in his last test even though their alternatives are way worse.

Same with Amir in T20s and Masood in Tests.
 
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We had the likes of Tabish Khan, Sadaf Hussain and Mir Hamza consistently performing in domestic. But wasted.

I don't know about new kids in domestic but we have performers. Shinwari, Hasan Ali, Sameen Gul, Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali, Ehsan Adil and Junaid Khan.

That's about it I think.
 
Usman Chadda said:
There's no such thing as 'ATG potential'. There is potential to succeed in international cricket, that's it.

Shaheen and Naseem have that.
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I partially agree, if someone is performing consistently for sometime over 30+ tests then we can argue over an ATG potential, like Rabada for example.

Yes, Shaheen has what it takes to succeed in international cricket. Not sure about Naseem.
 
I just find it ridiculous that BCB has agreed to play tests without any practice match.

We could have been competitive if we had a full strength team and a practice match. I mean we picked Mohammad Mithun, that guy isn't good to get into Namibia 2nd XI.

Anyways decent session for both teams. Looking forward to Bangladesh Batsmen to cash in on the start.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
He's a very good talent. Bowled very well in Australia.
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Well that is your opinion and I don't agree. I think he didn't bowl well at all considering he has the gift of height and a great seam position. If Rahat Ali or Imran Khan did what Shaheen did in Aus it would have been considered decent because that is their level. Shaheen has a considerably higher ceiling than them, wouldn't you agree?
 
Hyperion66 said:
I partially agree, if someone is performing consistently for sometime over 30+ tests then we can argue over an ATG potential, like Rabada for example.

Yes, Shaheen has what it takes to succeed in international cricket. Not sure about Naseem.
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Naseem has pace. Has a good seam position. Can move the ball, as was evident against Sri Lanka. Has a fantastic bouncer.

In an ideal world, he wouldn't be playing a Test right now at this age. But it is what it is. He will develop control eventually.

Naseem has a higher ceiling than Shaheen IMO.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Naseem has pace. Has a good seam position. Can move the ball, as was evident against Sri Lanka. Has a fantastic bouncer.

In an ideal world, he wouldn't be playing a Test right now at this age. But it is what it is. He will develop control eventually.

Naseem has a higher ceiling than Shaheen IMO.
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We have a few professional wrist-slitters who have no real interest in Pakistan cricket - lets concentrate on the positives and ignore their negativity.
 
MenInG said:
We have a few professional wrist-slitters who have no real interest in Pakistan cricket - lets concentrate on the positives and ignore their negativity.
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Its not like people are negative. People wants to see our team doing well and perform all around the World bring few cups every often. They don't want to our team is at the bottom in every format. Some people are satisfied with team around 6-8 in test and ODI. But many people at least want to see our team around 3-4. Don't think they are too greedy.
 
Very poor batting by Bangladesh. You dont chase such a wide delivery in a test match. Mahmudullah being a captain should have been more responsible. Long way to and lot to learn for BD as far as test match is concerned. Its okay to win U19s/few ODIs etc. But test cricket is what seperate men from boys.
 
Reminds me of the Indore test when Bangladesh lost last 7 wickets for 50 runs and were bowled out for 150 on the very first day I think.
 
Shafi said:
Its not like people are negative. People wants to see our team doing well and perform all around the World bring few cups every often. They don't want to our team is at the bottom in every format. Some people are satisfied with team around 6-8 in test and ODI. But many people at least want to see our team around 3-4. Don't think they are too greedy.
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There's a difference between objective criticism based on circumstances and mindless ranting and wrist slitting defying logic and stemmed only in pessimism and negativity.

It's not easy for Pakistan to be in the top 3-4 at this moment as the teams above them have both good talent pools and considerable financial advantage which in the professional world is a massive advantage.

Bring solutions, back the team by being at the ground/follow online, buy sports subscriptions, and help the team in whichever way that's possible instead of being bandwagoners and then we may have a slight case to complain about the lack of performance.
 
Naseem is consistently bowling fast. He is already the fastest bowler in Asia. Keep em coming. The pace factory never stops.pace is pace yaar
 
Hyperion66 said:
You gotta be kidding me right? He didn't even play against England in the wc, was temporarily dropped due to mediocre performance against England before the wc. He did good against NZ and took 3 wickets if that excited you this much and gave you ATG vibes then you'll have unbelievably low standard for fast bowling sorry to say.
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dude I am not saying he will definitely become an all time great. He has raw potential. That's pretty obvious. He has bounce, good variations in speed, Yorker, can swing the ball both ways.
If he works on improving his lengths he can become a great player without a doubt.

Beating new zealand isn't special now? it was a crunch game and pakistan had to win it to qualify and he delivered.

He wasn't dropped mate. he was not selected due to pakistan preferring hasan ali over him for ungodly reason.
 
Naseem is like Babar 2016-17 in tests you ca see the talent you will see flashes of it here and there but not ready enough to string performances together.
 
Things are getting worse. In the past we could see good looking 50s in patches from our batsmen, once they were set. Now the benchmark is fighting 20s or 30s.
 
After two decades of mediocrity, Pakistani fans are under no obligation to be optimistic and supportive, especially when there is no hope for the future either.

The fans owe PCB nothing.
 
That was a great catch, but calling Asad Shafiq Superman from Sindh is a bit much.
 
Hyperion66 said:
Well that is your opinion and I don't agree. I think he didn't bowl well at all considering he has the gift of height and a great seam position. If Rahat Ali or Imran Khan did what Shaheen did in Aus it would have been considered decent because that is their level. Shaheen has a considerably higher ceiling than them, wouldn't you agree?
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he had carry the brunt of the attack all by himself. He had no support. musa was too raw. naseem was fresh too. Abbas was next to useless in that series. yasir was getting brutally smashed around.
 
Pretty poor batting from bangladesh, quite a few players getting in and out.

Bangladesh 137/5

Yasir shah has been poor, needs to bowl with some control here at least.
 
Mamoon said:
After two decades of mediocrity, Pakistani fans are under no obligation to be optimistic and supportive, especially when there is no hope for the future either.

The fans owe PCB nothing.
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how can you say that mate? naseem, shaheen, rauf, shinwari, amir and abbas is plenty of talent to cover all 3 formats.

Especially naseem and shaheen. It's like watching 2 young babars except in bowling.
You can clearly notice their talent.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
There's a difference between objective criticism based on circumstances and mindless ranting and wrist slitting defying logic and stemmed only in pessimism and negativity.

It's not easy for Pakistan to be in the top 3-4 at this moment as the teams above them have both good talent pools and considerable financial advantage which in the professional world is a massive advantage.

Bring solutions, back the team by being at the ground/follow online, buy sports subscriptions, and help the team in whichever way that's possible instead of being bandwagoners and then we may have a slight case to complain about the lack of performance.
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People are supporting team for last 20 years even after consistently failing. I don't blame players but blame PCB doing nothing and damn care about that. We are on par with WI and Zim board. Fail miserably for years still don't initiate anything positive to bring up the team instead they keep recycling players or people in PCB.
People had high hope in IK knowing he was a great player himself once upon a time but instead he appointed Misbah (who doesn't even qualify for the head coach position job), Waqar (3 times failure of a coach) and Wasim Khan with big talk. Its time we better lower our hope/expectation and be satisfy with soe wins here and there.
 
Except Tamim's, all wickets were due to poor shots than good bowling.
 
Yasir pushing the ball through to quickly which means the odd half tracker to cut and slash away.

Needs to just hold up an end here.
 
Mamoon said:
After two decades of mediocrity, Pakistani fans are under no obligation to be optimistic and supportive, especially when there is no hope for the future either.

The fans owe PCB nothing.
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Exactly. Many people are happy around 8-10 in ranking but complain when we crush by India either by 10/8/9 wickets or big runs.
Also PCB don't give a damn of improving our team whether we have talent or not at least make a professional set up.
Don't think Indian U19 has all 15 super talented kids. Apart from 5-6 others are good but not extra ordinary but they are highly professional and skilled with the help of BCCI.
 
Naseem hasnt bowled as well as last time but his speeds are very high and he has been unlucky with some edges he is a must or do we need rahat Ali back...to be honest i think this pitch is pretty flat looking at the wickets all drives away from body so we have done well here
 
Liton needs to get a big one today. He is becoming a specialist of good-looking 20s and 30s and then throwing his wicket away.
 
Dios said:
Liton needs to get a big one today. He is becoming a specialist of good-looking 20s and 30s and then throwing his wicket away.
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He has got all the ingredients to become a very good batsman. Just need to improve his shot selection and temperament.
 
Shafi said:
Its not like people are negative. People wants to see our team doing well and perform all around the World bring few cups every often. They don't want to our team is at the bottom in every format. Some people are satisfied with team around 6-8 in test and ODI. But many people at least want to see our team around 3-4. Don't think they are too greedy.
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You are a genuine well-wisher of Pakistan cricket. No issues at all.
 
Why dont Bangladesh batsmen stand out of the crease like others vs Abbas?
 
Mamoon said:
After two decades of mediocrity, Pakistani fans are under no obligation to be optimistic and supportive, especially when there is no hope for the future either.

The fans owe PCB nothing.
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Yes Pakistan fans have that privilege but only those who have genuine interest in this country's cricket and the nation itself.
 
tyron_woodley said:
how can you say that mate? naseem, shaheen, rauf, shinwari, amir and abbas is plenty of talent to cover all 3 formats.

Especially naseem and shaheen. It's like watching 2 young babars except in bowling.
You can clearly notice their talent.
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These players will ensure that Pakistan hover around 5, 6 and 7 in Test and ODI rankings. We need 2-3 batsmen like Babar and 2-3 bowlers like Shaheen to become a top 3 side. That is not happening.
 
Liton averages 48 plus in first class cricket including 31 test innings where he averages only 24. If u deduct his test record from first class, Liton's average will go up to 53 plus. Another Graham Hick in progress?
 
MenInG said:
Yes Pakistan fans have that privilege but only those who have genuine interest in this country's cricket and the nation itself.
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I will say the opposite. In my view, those who overrate this team and pretend that everything is okay and will be okay in the future, are the ones who don’t have genuine interest.
 
Mamoon said:
I will say the opposite. In my view, those who overrate this team and pretend that everything is okay and will be okay in the future, are the ones who don’t have genuine interest.
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There is something called constructive criticism. That happens only if one has genuine interest at heart.
 
Dios said:
Liton needs to get a big one today. He is becoming a specialist of good-looking 20s and 30s and then throwing his wicket away.
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He is a wonderful shot maker and I really hope he doesn't throw it away today like he always does. He is much better than what his stats suggest.
 
Very impressed with Liton. Not flustered at all. Any score above 300+ is danger for Pakistan batting.
 
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