Persecution of Shia Muslims in Pakistan?

junoon

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I came across this website about sectarian killings of shia muslims in Pakistan, and i was shocked. While i was aware that there was a problem of sectarian violence in Pakistan but did not know about the magnitude of the problem.

Every month, around 10 shias are killed in target killings across Pakistan and most of them tend to be successful people like doctors, lawyers & bureaucrats etc.
After every few months a shia procession/mosque is bombed or attacked by armed men and dozens are killed.
 
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It is shameful. Once a community is designated as Kaafir, it is open season on them.

A sad truth, but it has become acceptable practice to declare fellow Muslims as non-Muslims. They imitate the Catholic Church, which routinely excommunicated the faithful. Islam, however, is not a church. Nor does it belong to any-one or any sect.

These acts of violence are but manifestations of intolerance, arrogance and ignorance. And whilst some are pre-ocupied with glorifying nationalism, weapons of mass destruction as well as a non-existent Muslim brother-hood, Muslim on-Muslim killing continues on unabated.

When will Muslims wake up and realize their self-righteous claims to moral superiority collapse in heaps everytime one Muslim is murdered by another?

May Allah SWT Grant to those slain the station of martyrs. And may HE avenge their slaughter. Surely, Allah SWT is Al-Muntaqeem - The Avenger. Ameen.
 
sectarian violence is not the only thing that is wrong


reading some of these things doesnt surprise me

it seeems everybody hates eachother
 
A lot of people are dying in: Pakistan...not only shia muslims.

We need to tackle this problem collectively instead of highlighting groups of people.
 
A lot of people are dying in: Pakistan...not only shia muslims.

We need to tackle this problem collectively instead of highlighting groups of people.

Spot on.

How many Sufi shrines have been blown up in recent times?

It is shameful. Once a community is designated as Kaafir, it is open season on them.

Do you have any evidence people in Pakistan have openly designated Shia's or anyone else as non-believers?

People who attack minorities or those ideoligies they dislike are cowards and do this in hidding.

We also have to understand causing divisions are well known tactics used by those who want to cause turmoil in places.
 
Can the OP dig up the # of sunni people who died in suicide stuff which took place in the open markets in Peshawer / Lahore / Karachi?

Can the OP dig up the # of sunni army men who lost their lives fighting those in Tribal Areas?

I remember Shaheed Lft. of PNS Mehran's picture with Shia symbolic references written over it and spread on internet as if shias are trying to portray that "see, we also love Pakistan and can give our lives". This is wrong.

if you start highlighting groups then it wont solve the problem.
 
Not that I condone these attacks at all but people ignore the fact that:

Everyday:

Pushtoons die
Sindhis die
Punjabis die
Muhajirs die
Sufis die
Sunnis die
Qadiyanis die
Wahabi die

People from Every minority/majority die. Its unfortunate but that's how the security situation is in Pakistan.

However, I would like to point out that many ppl grossly exegerate these numbers killings.

Similarly to shias, qadianis also make a great deal even if one person die. Their attitude becomes along the lines of: qadianis are being persecuted for no reason etc.

Nobody raises the issue of shias abusing Abu Bakr r.a, Aisha r.a, Umer r.a, Usman r.a and have disrespectful stories made up about these four.
 
Can the OP dig up the # of sunni people who died in suicide stuff which took place in the open markets in Peshawer / Lahore / Karachi?

Can the OP dig up the # of sunni army men who lost their lives fighting those in Tribal Areas?

I remember Shaheed Lft. of PNS Mehran's picture with Shia symbolic references written over it and spread on internet as if shias are trying to portray that "see, we also love Pakistan and can give our lives". This is wrong.

if you start highlighting groups then it wont solve the problem.

Absolutely spot on.
 
There is a difference between people dieing alongside each other and one party attacking another specifically.

so, which one is it?
 
long time ago probably 1987 my father got transfered to Sargodha and he wanetd me to learn Quran with Tajweed etc .i was 6

I was enrolled in a Madrissa for evening classes and quite Naive...i was learing quran regularly fro 3 months ...

my Mulana sahib who use to teach every day once just disappeared from the scene and i asked the fellow kids where has he gone ?

Almost all replied on JIhad....


i went what Jihad?

they went To kill Kafirs...


I went who are Kafirs?

They went All Shias ...i didnt know what Shia was ..i said Wow good on him....

A week later my father asked me how i was going i said i m learing Quran would Soon go on Jihad....He was shocked waht was i Talking about ...then he realised i was studtying with these fundamentals ...he took me off from that place and i never went there again....

BUT imagine 6 year Old kids geting Brain washed...and thats 1987


No wonder Pakistan is feeling the brunt of that Now ....
 
long time ago probably 1987 my father got transfered to Sargodha and he wanetd me to learn Quran with Tajweed etc .i was 6

I was enrolled in a Madrissa for evening classes and quite Naive...i was learing quran regularly fro 3 months ...

my Mulana sahib who use to teach every day once just disappeared from the scene and i asked the fellow kids where has he gone ?

Almost all replied on JIhad....


i went what Jihad?

they went To kill Kafirs...


I went who are Kafirs?

They went All Shias ...i didnt know what Shia was ..i said Wow good on him....

A week later my father asked me how i was going i said i m learing Quran would Soon go on Jihad....He was shocked waht was i Talking about ...then he realised i was studtying with these fundamentals ...he took me off from that place and i never went there again....

BUT imagine 6 year Old kids geting Brain washed...and thats 1987


No wonder Pakistan is feeling the brunt of that Now ....

as this actually not so farfetched, i can assure you that shia brothers do the same brain washing..

and i speak from experience here, not rambling bs. my high school best friend is a shia. and the amount of hate he had for the great scholars and leaders of the Ummah was just mind boggling...he had cursed them at many a times..

when shias say their names, they don't pay the same respect infact they show disrespect as i myself has experienced this on nuemrous occassions.
 
as this actually not so farfetched, i can assure you that shia brothers do the same brain washing..

and i speak from experience here, not rambling bs. my high school best friend is a shia. and the amount of hate he had for the great scholars and leaders of the Ummah was just mind boggling...he had cursed them at many a times..

when shias say their names, they don't pay the same respect infact they show disrespect as i myself has experienced this on nuemrous occassions.

I agree but What do we do to STOP it..?

the answere is NOTHING
 
Striver, regarding the following -

Nobody raises the issue of shias abusing Abu Bakr r.a, Aisha r.a, Umer r.a, Usman r.a and have disrespectful stories made up about these four.

I suggest, with respect, that the principle reason the Shi'aa community are regularly targetted is because they are incessantly accused of demeaning the Sahaba (rda)

It is about time each sect ceased blaming the other for historical wrongs. Re-living past events - over which none of us had any say or control - is utterly futile and ludicrous. Repeat history and it will never change.

Pakistan was founded upon Islam. It was never intended to be excusively Sunni or Shi'aa or Ahmedi or whatever. Minorities must be accorded respect, and tolerance must be shown to them. Muslim minorities in the West and other parts of the world demand equitable treatment. And quite right too. Thus, it is only right and proper that Muslims treat one another with compassion, generosity and patiance.

Leave all differences in belief and practice to Allah SWT. HE Is The Judge - Al-'Adl. Otherwise, Pakistan will fragment along sectarian and tribal lines. It is already in states of disintegration. Wa Llahu 'Alam
 
Shias also kill Sunnis in Iraq for instance...but in essence if there is one thing that is evident and this is worldover Muslims kill a lot more Muslims than anybody else...
 
shias are 20% of Pak populations................the events listed on that sites doesn't even make 10% of major attacks on pak public..................and how do we know they happened just coz they were shias...........

i've never heard or witnessed any such thing for my 14 year experience in PAk.........
some of my family members are shias but most are sunnis............

Every month, around 10 shias are killed in target killings across Pakistan and most of them tend to be successful people like doctors, lawyers & bureaucrats etc.
and how many sunnis or other sects or religions people killed???

what im saying is...that website and ur numbers don't prove/disprove anything.........
 
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I suggest, with respect, that the principle reason the Shi'aa community are regularly targetted is because they are incessantly accused of demeaning the Sahaba (rda)

Sister, root cause is that many of them demean, curse and disrespect openly; hence, inviting fury of others. I am yet to see a Sunni Muslim cursing or even disrespecting the Ahlul Bayt but I personally have met many shias who spew filth at some of the most beloved and revered Sahaba r.a.

I don't support the voilence used against these shias because this will increase their hatred even further. But what can you do really, as long as lack of education, lack of tolerance and close mindedness is there, sectarian voilence will continue.

Pakistan was founded upon Islam. It was never intended to be excusively Sunni or Shi'aa or Ahmedi or whatever. Minorities must be accorded respect, and tolerance must be shown to them. Muslim minorities in the West and other parts of the world demand equitable treatment. And quite right too. Thus, it is only right and proper that Muslims treat one another with compassion, generosity and patiance.

I have lived in Pakistan for good 18 yrs of life, in my area we had Sunnis/Shias/Qadianis/Christians, not once i came accross such incidence of voilence. Thats why it lead me to say that these facts i.e. 10 shias die/day are grossly exagerated. I challenge anyone to pickup the news over the next 30 days, and show me 300 shias dying in Pakistan. Chances are limited to none.


Leave all differences in belief and practice to Allah SWT. HE Is The Judge - Al-'Adl. Otherwise, Pakistan will fragment along sectarian and tribal lines. It is already in states of disintegration. Wa Llahu 'Alam

Again it is very easy to say but way difficult to act on these advises. How can one listen to garbage being said about the mother of the believers and the leaders of the Ummah? Surely many people can simply ignore the stupid but at the same time we have many who are short tempered.

I tried to reason with my Shia friend but didn't see it changing, simply stopped talking to him because I couldn't bear the friendship of a such person.
 
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You guys are missing the point. The point is they are being targeted specifically for being Shia. Just like Balochis are being targetted for just being from Balochistan. There is a world of difference between that and people dying in general. Thats like me saying my friend was stabbed for being brown and someone saying well yeah white people also get stabbed. Huge difference between the two.
Stop trying to justify murder. Least anyone can do is to admit or call out something is wrong when they see it instead of justifying it.
 
long time ago probably 1987 my father got transfered to Sargodha and he wanetd me to learn Quran with Tajweed etc .i was 6

I was enrolled in a Madrissa for evening classes and quite Naive...i was learing quran regularly fro 3 months ...

my Mulana sahib who use to teach every day once just disappeared from the scene and i asked the fellow kids where has he gone ?

Almost all replied on JIhad....


i went what Jihad?

they went To kill Kafirs...


I went who are Kafirs?

They went All Shias ...i didnt know what Shia was ..i said Wow good on him....

A week later my father asked me how i was going i said i m learing Quran would Soon go on Jihad....He was shocked waht was i Talking about ...then he realised i was studying with these fundamentals ...he took me off from that place and i never went there again....

BUT imagine 6 year Old kids getting Brain washed...and thats 1987


No wonder Pakistan is feeling the brunt of that Now ....


Thanks for that honest account.

Good on your father to pick on the early signs otherwise you might be holding a gun instead of a keyboard right now! lol
 
Its shameful when muslims attack other muslims... whatever their assessment of historical records is.....
 
long time ago probably 1987 my father got transfered to Sargodha and he wanetd me to learn Quran with Tajweed etc .i was 6

I was enrolled in a Madrissa for evening classes and quite Naive...i was learing quran regularly fro 3 months ...

my Mulana sahib who use to teach every day once just disappeared from the scene and i asked the fellow kids where has he gone ?

Almost all replied on JIhad....


i went what Jihad?

they went To kill Kafirs...


I went who are Kafirs?

They went All Shias ...i didnt know what Shia was ..i said Wow good on him....

A week later my father asked me how i was going i said i m learing Quran would Soon go on Jihad....He was shocked waht was i Talking about ...then he realised i was studtying with these fundamentals ...he took me off from that place and i never went there again....

BUT imagine 6 year Old kids geting Brain washed...and thats 1987


No wonder Pakistan is feeling the brunt of that Now ....

Congratulations on being saved:19:! Real credit goes to your father who acted accordingly. I wish each brainwashed kid had a father like you at a point of time:22:.
 
Guys - please refrain from sectarian or strongly offensive comments, many thanks! :)
 
One question

Why do kids need to go to madrasa to learn Quran ? Can't they read it at home?
 
One question

Why do kids need to go to madrasa to learn Quran ? Can't they read it at home?

I see it to be that parents often think that a "prefessional" should teach their children about religion. It is not all about being able to read the Arabic in it. People think that they will gain a better understanding of things if they attend a Madrassah.

Others are welcome to correct me if I am wrong here.
 
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Its shameful when muslims attack other muslims... whatever their assessment of historical records is.....

I read comments like this a lot on this forum. Its shameful when any innocent person is attacked, regardless of religion.

The number of times I've read it makes me feel like Muslim attacking a Muslim is especially bad, not as bad as a Muslim attacking a kaafir.

The treatment of Ahmedis was sanctioned by the silence of both Shias and Sunnis. Once it became ok to target one section of society it was only a matter of time before others were targeted.
 
I see it to be that parents often think that a "prefessional" should teach their children about religion. It is not all about being able to the Arabic in it. People think that they will gain a better understanding of things if they attend a Madrassah.

Others are welcome to correct me if I am wrong here.

At what age do most children start attending madrassas?
 
At what age do most children start attending madrassas?

Can´t tell really since I haven´t had an experience of it. I hope others will answer it:).
 
I see it to be that parents often think that a "prefessional" should teach their children about religion. It is not all about being able to the Arabic in it. People think that they will gain a better understanding of things if they attend a Madrassah.

Others are welcome to correct me if I am wrong here.
What I learnt from this forum is mostly children remember the arabic version though they do not understand anything (due to arabic language).

If that is what they need to do, the parents should let their children read it at home and remember. No need to expose them to these brainwashers.

But again whats the point just remembering it if they do not understand the meaing of it ?
 
One question

Why do kids need to go to madrasa to learn Quran ? Can't they read it at home?

That's such a stupid question....its like saying why do people go to Med school to become doctors when they can by reading books at home and operating on animals...

religion is a subject for which you require experts to let you know the nitty gritty of it all....i can 100% say you can't understand 10% of the Bhagavad Gita unless you don't seek guidance of a scholar...
 
One question

Why do kids need to go to madrasa to learn Quran ? Can't they read it at home?

At what age do most children start attending madrassas?

Muslim kids goto madrasa to learn Quran because there is a proper way to learn Quran which is called Tajweed.

In Pakistan, a minute percentage from the previous generation knew how to read the Quran with Tajweed.

Even if you were to have a pole here on PP asking how many people could read the Quran properly with the Tajweed rules, i am positive that minority will turn up and say THEY CAN unfortunatly.

Reading Quran with Tajweed is highl important because the meaning of a word changes completely when not read with proper pronounciation.

Example: Qalb and Kalb, translation Heart and Dog..... so the Q in the first letter has to be spoken from the throat with full mouth and so on....
 
Muslim kids goto madrasa to learn Quran because there is a proper way to learn Quran which is called Tajweed.

In Pakistan, a minute percentage from the previous generation knew how to read the Quran with Tajweed.

Even if you were to have a pole here on PP asking how many people could read the Quran properly with the Tajweed rules, i am positive that minority will turn up and say THEY CAN unfortunatly.

Reading Quran with Tajweed is highl important because the meaning of a word changes completely when not read with proper pronounciation.

Example: Qalb and Kalb, translation Heart and Dog..... so the Q in the first letter has to be spoken from the throat with full mouth and so on....

Thanks Striver. From what I know, the Quran has to be read out aloud only in Arabic. Do they actually teach Arabic in the madrassas or do they only teach you how to pronounce the words?
 
Can the OP dig up the # of sunni people who died in suicide stuff which took place in the open markets in Peshawer / Lahore / Karachi?

Can the OP dig up the # of sunni army men who lost their lives fighting those in Tribal Areas?

I remember Shaheed Lft. of PNS Mehran's picture with Shia symbolic references written over it and spread on internet as if shias are trying to portray that "see, we also love Pakistan and can give our lives". This is wrong.

if you start highlighting groups then it wont solve the problem.

+1 well said :clap:
these suicide bombers dont give a damn about who they kill
 
That's such a stupid question....its like saying why do people go to Med school to become doctors when they can by reading books at home and operating on animals...

religion is a subject for which you require experts to let you know the nitty gritty of it all....i can 100% say you can't understand 10% of the Bhagavad Gita unless you don't seek guidance of a scholar...


Not really. I can understand sanskrit and understand what it says.

Anyway, my parents never expected me to remember the whole Bhagwat Gita by heart. :)

Anyway.. may be different requirement.
 
Muslim kids goto madrasa to learn Quran because there is a proper way to learn Quran which is called Tajweed.

In Pakistan, a minute percentage from the previous generation knew how to read the Quran with Tajweed.

Even if you were to have a pole here on PP asking how many people could read the Quran properly with the Tajweed rules, i am positive that minority will turn up and say THEY CAN unfortunatly.

Reading Quran with Tajweed is highl important because the meaning of a word changes completely when not read with proper pronounciation.

Example: Qalb and Kalb, translation Heart and Dog..... so the Q in the first letter has to be spoken from the throat with full mouth and so on....
Thanks for the detail. Makes sense.

Do they also translate or just emphasis on pronounciation while teaching the kids?
 
Thanks Striver. From what I know, the Quran has to be read out aloud only in Arabic. Do they actually teach Arabic in the madrassas or do they only teach you how to pronounce the words?

Quran doesnt HAVE TO BE READ outloud, you can recite silently, in your heart also. In smaller madrasas they only teach you the correct pronounciation and may be memorizing of the Quran. to learn how to speak/understand Arabic, its much intensive and require studying in bigger madrasa



Not really. I can understand sanskrit and understand what it says.

Anyway, my parents never expected me to remember the whole Bhagwat Gita by heart. :)
Anyway.. may be different requirement.

Garuda, there is a great virtue and reward for memorizing the Quran, partial Surahs or All of it. As many parents expect their kids to study abroad, become doctors, engineers and so onn.... many Muslim parents want their kids to be Ulema or Hufaz "Memorizers"

Every Muslim has memorized some short Surahs of Quran to the very minimum.
 
Thanks for the detail. Makes sense.

Do they also translate or just emphasis on pronounciation while teaching the kids?

well in non Arab countries, not many put emphises on actually learning the language of Quran and usually people consider correct pronounciation enough sadly.

Example: I wish had memorized the whole Quran, I wish I could understand the beautiful language.

e.g. a person listening to hindi/urdu song who doesnt understand the language at all will only enjoy the music and not the essence of poetry....
 
Garuda, there is a great virtue and reward for memorizing the Quran, partial Surahs or All of it. As many parents expect their kids to study abroad, become doctors, engineers and so onn.... many Muslim parents want their kids to be Ulema or Hufaz "Memorizers"

Every Muslim has memorized some short Surahs of Quran to the very minimum.

You misunderstood. I was not implying that muslims shouldn't memorize quran.

I was just repying to other post where he asks me if I understand Gita by studying at home. My dad used to read Gita everyday and by hearing him everyday, I had remembered almost all of Gita. But for us it was never a priority.
 
well in non Arab countries, not many put emphises on actually learning the language of Quran and usually people consider correct pronounciation enough sadly.

Example: I wish had memorized the whole Quran, I wish I could understand the beautiful language.

e.g. a person listening to hindi/urdu song who doesnt understand the language at all will only enjoy the music and not the essence of poetry....
Yah I have read here that a lot of non-arabic ppl just remember the quran but donno the meaning of it.

Personally, I am not sure what is the benefit of that exercise. The meaning is the real thing.
 
Yah I have read here that a lot of non-arabic ppl just remember the quran but donno the meaning of it.

Personally, I am not sure what is the benefit of that exercise. The meaning is the real thing.

That's true-meaning is important. Personally, I also started off with reading and then memorizing the Quran (I got up to memorizing 16 siparas (there are 30 in total)), without really understanding what it was I was reading. I think because Arabic was a foreign language for me, the Maulvi sahab started off with just teaching me how to read the Quran and pronouncing the words etc...we later took the initiative to understand the meaning of the words (which is harder than just reciting as I soon found out, for me anyways...which is why I think my Maulvi sahab waited until I had fully grasped the reading aspect of the Quran (perhaps this is why young kids begin learning how to recite the words first).

I don't know about other parents, but my parents thought just reciting the words (i.e. reading the entire Quran in Arabic) was enough. But as I got older, I felt dissatisfied simply reciting words I didn't understand and hence began to read the translation as well (I felt like I was losing interest because although I could read, I didn't really understand what I was saying).

Emphasis should also be put on understanding what you are reading IMO.
 
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That's true-meaning is important. Personally, I also started off with reading and then memorizing the Quran (I got up to memorizing 16 siparas (there are 30 in total)), without really understanding what it was I was reading. I think because Arabic was a foreign language for me, the Maulvi sahab started off with just teaching me how to read the Quran and pronouncing the words etc...we later took the initiative to understand the meaning of the words (which is harder than just reciting as I soon found out, for me anyways...which is why I think my Maulvi sahab waited until I had fully grasped the reading aspect of the Quran (perhaps this is why young kids begin learning how to recite the words first).

I don't know about other parents, but my parents thought just reciting the words (i.e. reading the entire Quran in Arabic) was enough. But as I got older, I felt dissatisfied simply reciting words I didn't understand and hence began to read the translation as well (I felt like I was losing interest because although I could read, I didn't really understand what I was saying).

Emphasis should also be put on understanding what you are reading IMO.
Good for you. Its a different feeling when you understand the meaning of something which you care so much.

If everyone understands the real meaning a lot of brainwashing will stop.

I donno about others, but a lot of dependence on religeous scholars to explain the meaning should reduce as many of the scholars (in every religion) twist the real meaning to their agenda.
 
Striver, appreciate your reply Brother, thankyou.

We must make the distinction between what some members of the Shi'aa community say, and the rest. Abusing the Sahaba (rda) is not, I repeat, not an aspect of Shi'aa core belief and practice.

Ever since the Shi'aa were founded, they have suffered persecution at the hands of the majority. It is ludicrous to suggest that a tiny minority would deliberately set out to annihilate the majority. By force of arms or use of words.

The patiance and tolerance you exhibited towards your misguided Shi'aa freind is to be highly commended. That is exactly how one is required to behave in the face of provocation and ignorance. One does not join a pseudo-jihadist group in order to eliminate every Shi'aa in the vicinity and/or country.

Ignorant, intolerant and aggressive conduct is not confined to one Muslim sect. Since the Sunni sect are in the majority, the number of extremists is bound to be greater. This is a self-evident truth.

Now, you may dispute the figures in respect of the numbers of Shi'aa which are daily killed in certain areas of Pakistan. But the fact remains that they are being targetted because of who they are.

Let us recall the manner in which the Prophets (pbut) were routinely abused, demeaned, insulted, accused, attacked, etc. Some of them were martyred (Zachariah and his son, John pbut) How did the Messengers of Allah SWT respond to verbal, intellectual, psychological warfare? Did they set about killing each and every person who sought to oppress/persecute them? Or, did they turn to Allah SWT, beseeching HIM to grant them patiance in the face of these blatant and constant provocations?

Thus, if the Sahaba (rda) are verbally attacked by the misguided and foolish, Muslims ought to turn away, and seek patiance through prayer. Meeting aggression with ignorance is bound to lead to catastrophe. As has occured over the course of centuries.

I too have Shi'aa freinds, and found them to be nothing but loving, generous, kind, tolerant and humble human beings. They understand my non-sectarian position - as do my Sunni freinds - and respect it. Neither have ever sought to "convert" me.

I am a firm believer in unity. It will only ever be achieved if Muslims desist from attacking and/or insulting one another. I look forward to that day. In Sha Allah Ta'aala.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum
 
I read comments like this a lot on this forum. Its shameful when any innocent person is attacked, regardless of religion.

The number of times I've read it makes me feel like Muslim attacking a Muslim is especially bad, not as bad as a Muslim attacking a kaafir.

The treatment of Ahmedis was sanctioned by the silence of both Shias and Sunnis. Once it became ok to target one section of society it was only a matter of time before others were targeted.


You may rest assured that Muslims condemn the killing of all innocents, irrespective of who they are.

For the purposes of clarification: In no way, shape or form are Muslims permitted to kill non-Muslims. All killing is strictly prohibited. Unless it be within the context of a just war in self-defence.

Muslim-on-Muslim violence is not new. But dates back to the period immediately following upon the death of the Prophet (pbuh) The causes of this warfare vary. Most differences are centred upon political and theological matters. That covers a great deal of Muslim life, belief and practice.

The reason why Muslims have always been greatly concerned about this, is because all such internecine conflicts have broken up the unity of the Muslim Ummah (community/nation/peoples)

Whilst Islam remains intact - since it is not a church and has no priestly class - Muslim communities themselves have fragmented along sectarian, tribal and national lines. These divisions have caused bloodshed and bitter hatreds.

Qur'an, Chapter 5, The Repast, Verse 32
Because of this did WE Ordain to the Children of Isra'el that if anyone slays a human being - unless it be (in punishment) for murder or for spreading corruption on earth - it shall be as though he had slain all mankind: whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind.


The above Verse emphasizes the inherent unity underpinning humankind. Thus, the killing of one human being affects the entire body of humanity. Similarly, the killing of one Muslim by another, adversely affects the entire body of the Ummah. Wa Llahu 'Alam (And Allah SWT Knows Best)
 
Good for you. Its a different feeling when you understand the meaning of something which you care so much.

If everyone understands the real meaning a lot of brainwashing will stop.

I donno about others, but a lot of dependence on religeous scholars to explain the meaning should reduce as many of the scholars (in every religion) twist the real meaning to their agenda.


It is was the practice of Muslims of earlier generations to both learn and seek comprehension of the Qur'an, in its own language. Namely, Arabic. Which is why they excelled in virtually all fields of human endeavour and thought.

Over the course of the centuries, study of the Qur'an came to be restricted to scholars, who then interpreted and explained it in light of their own understanding.

Eventually, Muslims became fearful of misunderstanding or misinterpreting the Qur'an, which is why dependance and reliance on the scholarly class grew. An inevitability.

Scholars are only tasked with the job of imparting knowledge, not withholding or distorting it -

"If he (the teacher) is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind"
Khalil Gibran "The Prophet"

If we turn to the actual Text, we are informed that it has been made easy to understand and remember. Thus, many Muslims have memorized the entire Scripture. A feat in itself. The next step is comprehending it. That too is a gradual, but inevitable, process:

Qur'an, The Moon, Verse 22
Hence, indeed, WE have made this Qur'an easy to bear in mind: who, then, is willing to take it to heart?


(The supreme importance of the above exhortation is emphasized by being repeated in Verses 32 and 40 of the same Chapter)

Like everything else, learning a subject is made infinitely easier if there is real desire. Thus, there is really no sound reason for Muslims not seeking to acquire knowledge of the Qur'an in its own language. I am. It is not rocket science.
 
it happens too all the minoritys in the world .. in pak its shias and ahmadis ..in iran its sunnis ..in US its mexicans and blacks ...in india its dalits muslims sikhs and christans ..in australia it aborigines..but the media makes it look like it only happens in muslim world ...just like they make it look like muslim men abuse there women but the fact is in america every 17 seconds a women is raped HIGEST NUMBER in the world...
 
when i was growing up, it was very bad situation. There was lot of shia muslim killings going on in pakistan. There was lot of hate spread among kidz too. but now situation is comparatively better for young shia kidz growing up there. Now i see lots of sunnis molvis coming in shia majalis and talk about sahabas and ahlebait. There is an atmosphere of "itehad bain ul muslimeen" now.
 
Concerning the other topic started off in this thread, I would like to say that I prefer understanding the Holy Qur´an to its real depth than memorizing it. Of course there is a reward regarding every positive thing done about the Holy Qur´an.

I also think that the dominance of religious scholars needs a check, be they be from any religion. They rather wish to make children blind followers.

My humble opinion only:)!
 
when i was growing up, it was very bad situation. There was lot of shia muslim killings going on in pakistan. There was lot of hate spread among kidz too. but now situation is comparatively better for young shia kidz growing up there. Now i see lots of sunnis molvis coming in shia majalis and talk about sahabas and ahlebait. There is an atmosphere of "itehad bain ul muslimeen" now.

nice to hear that ..inshallah things will improve further ..ISI should make a hit list of all the shia sunni molvis who teach hatred against each other and kill them one by one ..and make it look like they died in accidents or nutural deaths ...thats how china was cleaned by chairman mao
 
In pakistan its all abt .... Iran vs Saudi Arabia .... Finances , training , motivation all comes from these two States . However In last 15 years , the conflict and clash has gone down to even lower levels , sunnis fighting sunnis ....

ppl also blame it on Intel as creation of SSP , Sunni Tehreek , Tehreek e Nifaz e Fiqah e Jaafriya were all alleged brainchilds of pakistani ISI to balance the inter state district level politics with religious outfits . Also Some of these groups helped Pakistan to get a upper hand in Afghanistan and Kashmir .

Militants of Teherik-i-Jafariya Pakistan were allegedly trained by IRGC of Iran while Al-Qaeda and Taliban members of pakistani origin found refuge into the ranks of Sunni outfits after Afghan Jihad . Taliban already were fighting with Iran supported Northern Alliance in Afghanistan so they had a new battlefield to renew the clash .

The Sunni outfits of Punjab's origin are more violent and better equipped due to the participation in Afghan and Kashmir Jihad . While the Shias enjoy the elite class rule , Higher designations , govt. posts etc due to better education and wealth .... Earliest cases of target killings in pakistan were of sectarian nature , alot before the creation of Mqm , or rise of Anp and PPP militants wings etc . During Zia times , Middle class shias due to social fears of no defense against the violence and state run anti Shia policy got into the ranks of these secular parties and today many of thier leaders are shias as a result .

.... funny thing is that sectarian ppl with Takfeer running mouths like to do discrimination only in Muslims land , peaceful cities , their neighborhoods , streets etc .... Same takfeeri Mullah likes to live in christian or jewish lands , work for an atheist , has jewish or buddhist friends ... they are all good to him but he likes to designate other fellow Ummati's as Kuffars . We in gulf fought for a decade over sects and at the end of the day we had a common enemy to face .... ironically we understood it only after 4 million deaths , all dieing in name of Islam ... atleast to them .
 
The Sunni outfits of Punjab's origin are more violent and better equipped due to the participation in Afghan and Kashmir Jihad . While the Shias enjoy the elite class rule , Higher designations , govt. posts etc due to better education and wealth .... Earliest cases of target killings in pakistan were of sectarian nature , alot before the creation of Mqm , or rise of Anp and PPP militants wings etc . During Zia times , Middle class shias due to social fears of no defense against the violence and state run anti Shia policy got into the ranks of these secular parties and today many of thier leaders are shias as a result .

I have noticed that a lot of shias blame Zia-ul-haq for starting the sectarian violence in Pakistan. What is the reason for that? Was General zia considered anti-shia?
 
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I have noticed that a lot of shias blame Zia-ul-haq for starting the sectarian violence in Pakistan. What is the reason for that? Was General zia considered anti-shia?

Yes blatantly anti-shia. Some of it could be attributed to Bhutto who was also supposedly shia - atleast his wife is shia. So Zia was paranoid and enacted actual laws to counter what he considered shia influences. It was during Zia's time that shia-sunni issue came to a loggerheads. He promoted hard-line factions with-in Islamic institutions (both political and government) and stroked the flames which were always there.
 
I have noticed that a lot of shias blame Zia-ul-haq for starting the sectarian violence in Pakistan. What is the reason for that? Was General zia considered anti-shia?

yes they do , but look at zia and circumstances that he was facing at that time , Soviet invasion of Afghanistan had to be stopped and in doing so he had to rely upon the traditional Mujaheddin warfare which itself was backed by Sunni Religious Students of Pakistan . Then Heavy funding from Saudi Arabia and USA left him no choice other than what he did .

Militancy , finances , of that era resulted in Sunni Militant Outfits that started to target Shias in Pakistan because of Direct Saudi backing . These groups first fought Shias then they themselve went through further segregations and resulted in Inter Sectarian militancy .... Today more sectarian deaths are resulted from Deobandi / Ahl e Hadees Sunnis / Wahabbi vs Barelwi Sunnis in pakistan then Shia vs Sunni ... Anyways Iran was at war with Iraq at that time , in which Saudi Arabia was supporting Iraq through all means , while at the same time Saudi Influence upon Pakistan was growing fast So Iran started funding Shia militancy in Pakistan and it was quite successful .

Pakistani intelligence agencies are no less evil in this regard .... They armed these groups to take advantage against India in kashmir or in Afghanistan which resulted into more turmoil for pakistan itself . This doesnt stop here e.g in order to suppress mqm which was an ethnic movement back then , pakistani intel first segregated it into two separate movements and then barelwi followers were separated as Sunni Tehreek .... At the same time sipah sahaba pakistan was also being shaped up for kashmir .... and now these two groups clash like wild dogs on sectarian basis though both are Sunnis ...

from Ismaili Shia Jinnah to Bhutto , to Benazir to Zardari .... pakistani ruling class has always been shia ... even military ... Genral Kayani is a shia . So if One Zia ul Haq was a Sunni then whats bad abt it ... yes zia was a devout Sunni Sectarian , a Deobandi ( indian Sunni Movement ) .
 
I remember in the summer of 1993 when i was studying at Army Public School in Sargodha, students often used to bring their own water flasks to beat the extreme heat.

I once shared my flask and cup with a shia friend of mine and when I went to re-fill my flask my fellow classmate told me to wash the flask & cup with soap and to recite the kalama to ‘purify’ it before drinking from the flask again.

This is just one of the many anti-shia sentiments i encountered while growing up.
 
from Ismaili Shia Jinnah to Bhutto , to Benazir to Zardari .... pakistani ruling class has always been shia ... even military ... Genral Kayani is a shia . So if One Zia ul Haq was a Sunni then whats bad abt it ... yes zia was a devout Sunni Sectarian , a Deobandi ( indian Sunni Movement ) .

Jinnah later converted to become an Ithna ashari shia, mainstream shia. Also, Gen Kayani is not a shia.
 
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yes they do , but look at zia and circumstances that he was facing at that time , Soviet invasion of Afghanistan had to be stopped and in doing so he had to rely upon the traditional Mujaheddin warfare which itself was backed by Sunni Religious Students of Pakistan . Then Heavy funding from Saudi Arabia and USA left him no choice other than what he did .

Militancy , finances , of that era resulted in Sunni Militant Outfits that started to target Shias in Pakistan because of Direct Saudi backing . These groups first fought Shias then they themselve went through further segregations and resulted in Inter Sectarian militancy .... Today more sectarian deaths are resulted from Deobandi / Ahl e Hadees Sunnis / Wahabbi vs Barelwi Sunnis in pakistan then Shia vs Sunni ... Anyways Iran was at war with Iraq at that time , in which Saudi Arabia was supporting Iraq through all means , while at the same time Saudi Influence upon Pakistan was growing fast So Iran started funding Shia militancy in Pakistan and it was quite successful .

Pakistani intelligence agencies are no less evil in this regard .... They armed these groups to take advantage against India in kashmir or in Afghanistan which resulted into more turmoil for pakistan itself . This doesnt stop here e.g in order to suppress mqm which was an ethnic movement back then , pakistani intel first segregated it into two separate movements and then barelwi followers were separated as Sunni Tehreek .... At the same time sipah sahaba pakistan was also being shaped up for kashmir .... and now these two groups clash like wild dogs on sectarian basis though both are Sunnis ...

from Ismaili Shia Jinnah to Bhutto , to Benazir to Zardari .... pakistani ruling class has always been shia ... even military ... Genral Kayani is a shia . So if One Zia ul Haq was a Sunni then whats bad abt it ... yes zia was a devout Sunni Sectarian , a Deobandi ( indian Sunni Movement ) .

I agree with your assessment except for the bolded part. You can say based on the % of total population shias have enjoyed their fair share in power. That is true to an extent. But the people you mentioned above except for Jinnah none of them were Shia. Pakistan never had a shia COAS. The only Shia head of states were Jinnah and Sikandar Mirza.
Even if you look at the state backed militant outfits none of them were shia. Infact the only militant outfit that was successfully eliminated from Pakistan was Sihpah-e-Muhamadi a shia militant outfit. So if the sate backed these militant outfits evenly you would have seen alot more shia militant outfits.
 
Jinnah later converted to become an Ithna ashari shia, mainstream shia. Also, Gen Kayani is not a shia.

lol ... i have heard a Famous Deobandi Scholar in karachi claiming that Jinnah later converted to Sunni Islam ...wow ... probably Pakistani Hanbalis would claim him being a Wahabi .... As far as I know he was a Ismaili Shia and so was His sister ... his funeral was performed according to Shia traditions ....

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Ismaili Shia inheritance law.


In late 1970s ... Pakistani courts recognized Jinnah and his family as ismaili Shiites and His property division was then estimated on basis of ismaili traditions .

As for fatima herself ... In the 1965 presidential election, Fatima Jinnah, who was contesting against President Ayub Khan, used the Shia card heavily in Shia majority areas .


I agree with your assessment except for the bolded part. You can say based on the % of total population shias have enjoyed their fair share in power. That is true to an extent. But the people you mentioned above except for Jinnah none of them were Shia. Pakistan never had a shia COAS. The only Shia head of states were Jinnah and Sikandar Mirza.

totally a wrong claim ....

Jinnah ... Shia
Iskandar Mirza ... Shia
Mohammad Ali Bogra .... Shia
Yahya khan .... Shia
Zulfiqar Bhutto ... Shia
Benazeer bhutto ... Shia
Zardari .... Shia

take Zia , Nawaz Shareef out and you will find all others as Shias ...

these are just head of states ... if National Assmebly Speakers , Ministers , CM's are to be counted then u would be amazed to see the stats ... even those who are not shias are sunni barelwis like gillani ... I guess Musharraf's wife Sehba Musharraf was even a Qadiyani so what makes musharraf ? ...

As for kayani .... Kayanis are established Sistani Shiites of Iran ... while in pakistan most of them settled in hazara and potohari region ... both of these areas have comparatively high % of shias ... Another clan of mogol kayanis are Qizilbashi and tarkhans .... I dont know abt tarkhans but Qizilbashis are also shias ( yahya Khan was Qizlbaashi ) .... there may be converts but I have yet to meet a kayani who is not shia ....


P.S. ... I am not against Shia brothers ... To me only being Muslim Matters rest is left for Allah to decide .
 
I remember in the summer of 1993 when i was studying at Army Public School in Sargodha, students often used to bring their own water flasks to beat the extreme heat.

I once shared my flask and cup with a shia friend of mine and when I went to re-fill my flask my fellow classmate told me to wash the flask & cup with soap and to recite the kalama to ‘purify’ it before drinking from the flask again.

This is just one of the many anti-shia sentiments i encountered while growing up.

wow!

Cant imagine what would have happened if it was a hindu :danish
 
wow!

Cant imagine what would have happened if it was a hindu :danish

i guess that would not have mattered .... Funny thing abt sectarian ppl ... they r ok with Non muslims but they like to fight fellow muslims ...
 
lol ... i have heard a Famous Deobandi Scholar in karachi claiming that Jinnah later converted to Sunni Islam ...wow ... probably Pakistani Hanbalis would claim him being a Wahabi .... As far as I know he was a Ismaili Shia and so was His sister ... his funeral was performed according to Shia traditions ....

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Ismaili Shia inheritance law.
.

and Shia Khoja Mohammedan somehow means Ismaili shias? :)

From Stanely Wolpert's Jinnah of Pakistan

Though religion never played an important role in Jinnah's life-except for its political significance- he left Agha Khan's sevener khoja community at this stage of his maturation, opting to join less hierarchically structred Isna Ashari sect of "Twelver" khojas. "
http://books.google.com/books?ei=y8...&dq=jinnah+of+pakistan&q=ashari#search_anchor

Infact his funeral was led by a renowned shia cleric, Allama Anis.


In late 1970s ... Pakistani courts recognized Jinnah and his family as ismaili Shiites and His property division was then estimated on basis of ismaili traditions .

lol...it wasnt that simple.
Here is a detailed account on the Quaid's inheritance issue.
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/24122010/page27.shtml

As for kayani .... Kayanis are established Sistani Shiites of Iran ... while in pakistan most of them settled in hazara and potohari region ... both of these areas have comparatively high % of shias ... Another clan of mogol kayanis are Qizilbashi and tarkhans .... I dont know abt tarkhans but Qizilbashis are also shias ( yahya Khan was Qizlbaashi ) .... there may be converts but I have yet to meet a kayani who is not shia ....

As far as Gen. Kayani is concerned, my father knows him since his days as an instructor in the Pakistan Army Staff college Quetta. Him and all his family are sunni muslims. Infact almost an year ago he married his son in the month of Muharram.
And to me it seems strange that every kayani you have met is a shia.Because I am a shia, and I'v lived and traveled all over the country but I have never come across a shia kayani.
 
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lol ... i have heard a Famous Deobandi Scholar in karachi claiming that Jinnah later converted to Sunni Islam ...wow ... probably Pakistani Hanbalis would claim him being a Wahabi .... As far as I know he was a Ismaili Shia and so was His sister ... his funeral was performed according to Shia traditions ....

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Ismaili Shia inheritance law.


In late 1970s ... Pakistani courts recognized Jinnah and his family as ismaili Shiites and His property division was then estimated on basis of ismaili traditions .

As for fatima herself ... In the 1965 presidential election, Fatima Jinnah, who was contesting against President Ayub Khan, used the Shia card heavily in Shia majority areas .




totally a wrong claim ....

Jinnah ... Shia
Iskandar Mirza ... Shia
Mohammad Ali Bogra .... Shia
Yahya khan .... Shia
Zulfiqar Bhutto ... Shia
Benazeer bhutto ... Shia
Zardari .... Shia

take Zia , Nawaz Shareef out and you will find all others as Shias ...

these are just head of states ... if National Assmebly Speakers , Ministers , CM's are to be counted then u would be amazed to see the stats ... even those who are not shias are sunni barelwis like gillani ... I guess Musharraf's wife Sehba Musharraf was even a Qadiyani so what makes musharraf ? ...

As for kayani .... Kayanis are established Sistani Shiites of Iran ... while in pakistan most of them settled in hazara and potohari region ... both of these areas have comparatively high % of shias ... Another clan of mogol kayanis are Qizilbashi and tarkhans .... I dont know abt tarkhans but Qizilbashis are also shias ( yahya Khan was Qizlbaashi ) .... there may be converts but I have yet to meet a kayani who is not shia ....


P.S. ... I am not against Shia brothers ... To me only being Muslim Matters rest is left for Allah to decide .

Thanks for letting me know about Yahya Khan and Bogra didnt know about those guys.
But I can tell you with absolute impunity that ZAB, Zardari and Baynazair are not shia. If you watch the footage of their funerals you will know. They didnt have triditional Shai funerals and on top the wedding of Zardari and Baynazair was done by none shia alims.
The Shia in that household was the wife of ZAB and Baynazairs mother. She was a persian shia. By that token we cant really start calling Bibi persian now.
 
lol ... i have heard a Famous Deobandi Scholar in karachi claiming that Jinnah later converted to Sunni Islam ...wow ... probably Pakistani Hanbalis would claim him being a Wahabi .... As far as I know he was a Ismaili Shia and so was His sister ... his funeral was performed according to Shia traditions ....

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Ismaili Shia inheritance law.


In late 1970s ... Pakistani courts recognized Jinnah and his family as ismaili Shiites and His property division was then estimated on basis of ismaili traditions .

As for fatima herself ... In the 1965 presidential election, Fatima Jinnah, who was contesting against President Ayub Khan, used the Shia card heavily in Shia majority areas .




totally a wrong claim ....

Jinnah ... Shia
Iskandar Mirza ... Shia
Mohammad Ali Bogra .... Shia
Yahya khan .... Shia
Zulfiqar Bhutto ... Shia
Benazeer bhutto ... Shia
Zardari .... Shia

take Zia , Nawaz Shareef out and you will find all others as Shias ...

these are just head of states ... if National Assmebly Speakers , Ministers , CM's are to be counted then u would be amazed to see the stats ... even those who are not shias are sunni barelwis like gillani ... I guess Musharraf's wife Sehba Musharraf was even a Qadiyani so what makes musharraf ? ...

As for kayani .... Kayanis are established Sistani Shiites of Iran ... while in pakistan most of them settled in hazara and potohari region ... both of these areas have comparatively high % of shias ... Another clan of mogol kayanis are Qizilbashi and tarkhans .... I dont know abt tarkhans but Qizilbashis are also shias ( yahya Khan was Qizlbaashi ) .... there may be converts but I have yet to meet a kayani who is not shia ....


P.S. ... I am not against Shia brothers ... To me only being Muslim Matters rest is left for Allah to decide .

Just an FYI Bogra on his wiki page is listed as sunni muslim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Bogra

Who knows maybe that is incorrect.
 
http://www.rferl.org/content/pakistan_hazara_minority_struggles_to_survive/24349098.html

Pakistan's Tiny Hazara Minority Struggles To Survive

October 04, 2011

By Abubakar Siddique, Khudainoor Nasar

QUETTA, Pakistan -- A deadly attack in southwest Pakistan has added to the heavy toll suffered by a small Shi'ite minority amid a broad sectarian conflict.

The October 4 attack, carried out against a bus carrying mostly Hazaras on the outskirts of Quetta, claimed the lives of 12 people. There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but similar attacks against the community have previously been claimed by Sunnis affiliated with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Thousands have died in the ongoing conflict between rival hard-line Shi'a and Sunni sects in Pakistan, but the Hazaras have particularly suffered. The minority has been left reeling from a sharp increase in attacks in recent years, prompting some members to call on the government to provide more land to accommodate fresh graves.

Obtaining justice in the Sunni-majority state has proved elusive for some Hazaras like Rukhsana Ahmed Ali, a prominent political activist and social worker whose husband, Ahmed Ali Najafi, was killed at his workplace two years ago.

She says two eyewitnesses, young students of a religious seminary, said they heard the killers order her husband out of his car and asking them how he had wronged them.

"The killers then told him, 'You have not done anything wrong, but we have been told that killing one Shi'a will open five doors of heaven for us,'" Ahmed Ali says. "He was then forced out of his car and killed by a whole burst of Kalashnikov fire."

'Are We Humans Or Insects?'

Najafi's September 2009 killing marked the beginning of bloodshed against Hazaras centered in Balochistan Province that has continued to this day. Hazara leaders claim that nearly 600 members of their community have been killed since 1999.

Lashkar-e Jhangvi, a banned extremist Sunni organization now seen as allied with Al-Qaeda, has claimed responsibility for most of the attacks.

Middle-aged coal-mine owner Sayed Nasir Ali Shah represents Quetta's Hazara's in the Pakistani parliament. He was elected on the ticket of the governing Pakistan People's Party in 2008, but has since turned into one of its most outspoken critics. These days, his only mission is to try to save Hazara lives by calling for government protection.

Shah was undeterred even when he was targeted in a suicide attack last year, which left one of his young sons paralyzed. He says that protests and petitions with senior leaders have so far fallen on deaf ears.

"The government is only watching, and I am now tired after constantly shouting to grab their attention," Shah says. "I have been pleading to them to [do something to protect us] for God's sake. Are we humans or insects? We have no confrontation with our [neighboring] Balochi and Pashtun communities. We are targeted because our tormentors believe that we are infidels."

Losing Battle

A century ago, Shah's Hazara ancestors fled the poverty and oppression of their Afghan homeland to the safety offered by Quetta, a British garrison town. Compared to their Afghan cousins, the Hazaras in Quetta prospered in British India and later on in Pakistan. But the tiny minority turned into a target for radical Sunnis.

Quetta once led the rest of Pakistan as an example of interfaith harmony. But Sunni extremism gradually gained traction in Balochistan's secular political culture and changed the landscape of its capital. This transformation was aided by Pakistan's alliance with radical Islamists who have fought its proxy wars in neighboring Afghanistan since the 1980s.

Abdul Khaliq Hazara, chairman of the Hazara Democratic Party, says the government has abdicated its responsibility of protecting his community. The small political party he leads hopes to provide protection to Quetta's 400,000 Hazaras by relentlessly advocating their rights.

He now sees no light at the end of the tunnel, and laments that many youths in the community are opting to seek asylum abroad.

"Nobody is listening to us -- the parliament, Islamabad, the government in Balochistan, and our powerful [security] institutions," Khaliz Hazara says. "We feel that it's the government's policy to promote sectarian terrorism here. So that people keep on fighting each other because of sectarian tensions."

Balochistan, Pakistan's largest and least populated province, is the scene of complex regional rivalries and home to many insurgent movements. The province has been destabilized by a separatist ethnic Balochi insurgency since 2004 that Islamabad is trying to crush militarily.

Insurgents' Foothold?

Afghan and Western officials, however, are more concerned about the presence of Afghan insurgents in Balochistan. They blame Pakistan for sheltering the leadership of Afghan Taliban movement in Quetta.

Police officials claim that the security environment in Balochistan is stretching their small force. Hamid Shakeel, a senior police officer in Quetta, says they always urge Hazaras traveling from Quetta to request police protection before embarking outside the provincial capital, often en route to Iran.

But there is only so much they can do, Shakeel says. "We only have 1,100 police officers for Quetta and their responsibility is not only to prevent target assassinations but they have to provide protection to senior officials," he says.

The situation prompted the Hazaras of Quetta to call for international protests this month. The Hazara Democratic Party is counting on Hazara diaspora communities to demonstrate in major cities across Europe, Australia, and North America throughout October. A protest in Vienna on October 1 attracted hundreds of supporters, and the October 4 bloodshed prompted hundreds more to condemn the killings during a rally in London.

Back in Quetta, fear and uncertainty remain high. Muhammad Ismail, a Harzara trader, says that living a normal life in his once peaceful hometown is now impossible.

"When we leave our houses [in the morning] we are not sure about returning in the evening," Ismail says. "When our children go out into the bazaar, we are worried about something happening to them. These are the kind of problems we live with."
 
Shias live all over Pakistan , to me it seems that only Hazaras are being targeted here .
 
what i dont get is that when hundreds of sunnis die every month in bomb lasts nobody mentions that they are sunni..

but when shia or for that matter ahmedis die,, everyone is up in arms as if it was some targetted operation by the establishment or sth..

the percentage of innocent sunnis dying is prolly much more than any other sect..

we should work and highlight the problem of innocent pakistanis being killed rather than innocent sunnis,shias etc
 
what i dont get is that when hundreds of sunnis die every month in bomb lasts nobody mentions that they are sunni..

but when shia or for that matter ahmedis die,, everyone is up in arms as if it was some targetted operation by the establishment or sth..

the percentage of innocent sunnis dying is prolly much more than any other sect..

we should work and highlight the problem of innocent pakistanis being killed rather than innocent sunnis,shias etc

Brother its not that hard to understand.

The sunnis killed, is it because of their religious beliefs? Terrorist attack at public places kills all shias, sunnis, christians everyone.

Wheras shias are being killed and persecuted because of their beliefs.
 
Brother its not that hard to understand.

The sunnis killed, is it because of their religious beliefs? Terrorist attack at public places kills all shias, sunnis, christians everyone.

Wheras shias are being killed and persecuted because of their beliefs.

so when a sunni mosque is bombed is it because of their religious beliefs? def the incidence of that is much higher.. infact in the media when a sunni mosque is bombed you just hear in the news that a mosque is bombed.. but when its a shia imambargah, the whole background is mentioned.

what my point is.. these terrorists have no religion and attack religious places indiscriminately
 
so when a sunni mosque is bombed is it because of their religious beliefs? def the incidence of that is much higher.. infact in the media when a sunni mosque is bombed you just hear in the news that a mosque is bombed.. but when its a shia imambargah, the whole background is mentioned.

First of all we should be thankful that sunni mosques are not attacked, atleast not as much as the shia ones.
But I tell you the whole background needs to be told whenever there is an attack. The blanket coverage gets us no where. It is the biggest injustice to the victims as it is concealing the identity of the attackers.
Only when we get to know whether the attacked mosque is a shia one, a barelvi one etc we can get an idea about the groups these attackers belong to.

what my point is.. these terrorists have no religion and attack religious places indiscriminately

Yes they have no religion.
But no, they do not attack places indiscriminately and it would be naive to think that they do.
 
http://tribune.com.pk/story/329312/sectarian-attack-one-killed-in-gulberg-area-of-karachi/


KARACHI: A wave of killings continue to plague Karachi, as another man from the Shia sect was targeted in the limits of Gulberg Police Station on Monday.Taseer Abbas Zaidi was killed in FB Area Block 20 when two men on a motorbike open fired on him.
He was the brother of noha khawan Raza Abbas. The deceased will be buried at Wadai-e-Hussain.
Tension gripped the area immediately after the incident and unidentified men forced shopkeepers to close their stores in Ancholi and the Water Pump areas. Shara-e-Pakistan is also reported to be blocked.
Protestors also blocked the media and targeted media personnel. They were present on the Ancholi side of the Sohrab Goth bridge and members of Pashtun community were on the other side.
Protestors clashed with the security forces deployed in the area. Police fired shots into the air and arrested 20 men.
Booths under the bridge and a bus were also set on fire during the protests.

The city has been under the grip of sectarian and political violence during the last couple of weeks, with the death toll standing at above 20 in the month of January.
In another act of targeted killing, 59-year-old Jaffar Mohsin Rizvi, alias doctor, the son of Syed Baqar Rizvi, was gunned down in Gulberg on Saturday.
Three men killed in New Karachi attack
Three men were killed on Monday when unidentified men opened fired at their vehicle in New Karachi.
The men were fired upon outside Pir Bazaar near Powerhouse roundabout in North Karachi.

SHO Ilyas Shah of Bilal Colony police station, who immediately reached the spot, said that three men were sent to Abbasi Shaheed Hospital in an injured condition.
However, they succumbed to their injuries while being moved to the hospital. The dead were identified as Adnan, a resident of New Karachi, Nizamuddin alias Adil, a resident of Orangi town and Irfan alias Shahrukh.

SP Chaudhry Asad though told The Express Tribune that the men belonged to the MQM. However, he refused to confirm whether this was an ethnic attack. “Investigations are still underway,” he said.

Police has set up a cordon at the scene of the crime. Shops in the area have been closed following the incident. Reports of tensions from New Karachi, North Karachi, Nazimabad, FB area and Nazimabad have been received.
 
wow!

Cant imagine what would have happened if it was a hindu :danish

Washing the glass/flask 7 times before drinking from it :p

However, that happened only during my childhood. and there are no strict rules.
 
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Not surprised . In the 90s they were being targeted for being Shias , many of them had to move to Shia majority areas . You would even hear the supposedly moderates saying , when giving anything to a Sunni , Shias spit on it . :zoni

But what have they done now ?
 
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I don't see any hope for Pakistan when major issues such as this are brushed aside. It's an outright tragedy.
 
In today's scenario, Are shia muslims safer and treated better in Pakistan or in india?

What are people's opinion on this issue?
 
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I find it tragic that so many people take the crutches of religion to perpetrate crimes. In terms of religious belief, Real belief should be a question of trust in God.

Do you believe in God enough that you trust him to eventually put to right whatever is wrong. If you are willing to take up arms and break his own rules, that means you do not believe and do not have faith in God's all powerfulness. So, anyone who claims to be fighting 'God's War' is simply deluding himself.

If there are significant amount of people with different belief's, no doubt God has a plan for them like he has everything. It is not up to us to usurp his authority.

Crimes have no justification, religious or not. The minute we raise our hands to an unarmed person with a view to harm, we lose all justification and all godliness.
 
There have been waves where hundreds of Shias were targeted and killed in a single year. Early part of 2010s, then mid-late 1990s. Things are far more stable right now, but could start up again if things goes sideways again.
 
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