[PICTURES] Is Joe Root’s reputation in danger due to Indian propaganda?

[Hitman]

I'm going to post a few things that are not propaganda, but facts.

So far, just 4 players have scored 13,000 Test runs or more. Here are the number of innings they each took to reach 13,000 Test runs.

Sachin Tendulkar - 266 innings
Jacques Kallis - 269 innings
Ricky Ponting - 275 innings
Rahul Dravid - 277 innings

Joe Root is currently on 12,754 Test runs in 273 innings.

Now before insecure people come behind me calling me a hater or a loser, remember that I haven't even given any opinion in my post. I have merely posted some statistical data that can't be denied.​

 

[Romali_rotti]

I'm going to post a few things that are not propaganda, but facts.

So far, just 4 players have scored 13,000 Test runs or more. Here are the number of innings they each took to reach 13,000 Test runs.

Sachin Tendulkar - 266 innings
Jacques Kallius - 269 innings
Ricky Ponting - 275 innings
Rahul Dravid - 277 innings

Joe Root is currently on 12,754 Test runs in 273 innings.

Now before insecure people come behind me calling me a hater or a loser, remember that I haven't even given any opinion in my post. I have merely posted some statistical data that can't be denied.​

Everyone knows Root is not in the league of SRT. Even Pakistanis know it, the Pakistanis that are now on Root's bandwagon hoping he would surpass SRTs test runs tally are the ones that have been traumatised by SRT. These Pakistanis need some hope to keep living because SRT has their lives in his control even after he last step foot on a cricket field.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm going to post a few things that are not propaganda, but facts.

So far, just 4 players have scored 13,000 Test runs or more. Here are the number of innings they each took to reach 13,000 Test runs.

Sachin Tendulkar - 266 innings
Jacques Kallius - 269 innings
Ricky Ponting - 275 innings
Rahul Dravid - 277 innings

Joe Root is currently on 12,754 Test runs in 273 innings.

Now before insecure people come behind me calling me a hater or a loser, remember that I haven't even given any opinion in my post. I have merely posted some statistical data that can't be denied.​

Root had the perfect opportunity to upstage pakistan in pakistan.

One of the points Mamoon made was that Sachin had a comparatively poor record in pakistan compared to how he played in other countries.

When pakistan stopped cultivating roads and curated pitches similar to uae spin pitches, Root had the perfect opportunity to show Sachin fans up.

I'm not saying he would be > Sachin, but he could have made a strong case showcasing how even difficult pitches are easy as pie for him to score on and I'm sure had he done so, Brother Mamoon would have highlighted this fact and spammed it over and over for the rest of eternity.

Instead Root looked just as clueless as Brooks who's often considered a test easy pitch flat track bully when it came to playing on such pitches meanwhile i have seen Sachin take Warne on spin friendly pitches as well.

Again don't wish to start any controversy but all I'm saying is when it comes to playing spin Sachin > Root.

 

[mb3407]

Roots avg is bordering on 50. He has to play an away ashes and also a home series against India. Doubt he will finish with 50+ avg.

 

[Rajdeep]

Root should just retire now man...he is embarrassing himself. His legacy will forever be a good player who could never score a ton in Australia.

Aur inko Tendulkar ko surpass karna hai

 

[mominsaigol]

Root should just retire now man...he is embarrassing himself. His legacy will forever be a good player who could never score a ton in Australia.

Aur inko Tendulkar ko surpass karna hai

Why would he retire? Unlike steve smith and kohli who's careers have been going in a downward spiral, Root's career is receiving am upward trajectory?

Ik you like Sachin but relax, nahi tooti Teri Sachin ki record.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Why would he retire? Unlike steve smith and kohli who's careers have been going in a downward spiral, Root's career is receiving am upward trajectory?

Ik you like Sachin but relax, nahi tooti Teri Sachin ki record.

Roots' career will ways be in upwards as long as the wickets he plays on are dead flat and do absolutely nothing.

 

[Varun]

Roots avg is bordering on 50. He has to play an away ashes and also a home series against India. Doubt he will finish with 50+ avg.

Par for the course for an English cricketer - they haven't produced a 50+ averaging batsman or a 25- averaging bowler in living memory.

 

[Mamoon]

Roots avg is bordering on 50. He has to play an away ashes and also a home series against India. Doubt he will finish with 50+ avg.

He will be just fine vs India. He owned Bumrah and others in 2021-22.

No team has conceded more runs and centuries to Root than India. In fact, if India was the only team that Root played in his career, he would have already galloped past Tendulkar.

Playing India at home is exactly the boost Root needs at this stage of his career to maintain a 50+ average and get within touching distance of Tendulkar.

 

[Mamoon]

Not sure why India are so obsessed with Root’s record in Australia. He is only one century away from surpassing Tendulkar’s bang average legacy in Pakistan.

Also, if Root scores a century in Australia, it won’t be a fraud innings like Tendulkar’s 194* in Multan, which was such a selfish stat padding effort that Dravid and Ganguly risked incurring the wrath of billions of fanatics when they declared the inning and refused to let Tendulkar score a selfish 200*.

Both families received death threats on that day and had to deploy extra security for the next few weeks.

 

[Mamoon]

Tendulkar vs Pakistan is the biggest fraud in cricket history. One selfish stat padding century in Multan; one bottle job in Chennai where he stole the man of the match from Afridi.

Thats all he had to show for vs Pakistan in Test cricket.

 

[Buffet]

Par for the course for an English cricketer - they haven't produced a 50+ averaging batsman or a 25- averaging bowler in living memory.

50 avg for batsmen and 25 avg for bowlers are used as a short cut for sure, but alone means very little.

Root can go down as an great if he can have 3-4 big away series against good teams despite averaging 49.
Having avg of 50 without any big away series agasint good team is simply not greatness.

Now if you are just talking stats, then yes. I would love to see Root cross stats of aggregate tally of runs by SRT. Anderson and Root both should be proud of effort they put to play for so many tests and produce these volume of runs/wickets.

 

[Varun]

Not sure why India are so obsessed with Root’s record in Australia. He is only one century away from surpassing Tendulkar’s bang average legacy in Pakistan.

Tendulkar didn't play 5 tests vs Pakistan every 1.5 years. If he did, he would have been closer to 120 centuries.

 

[Mamoon]

Tendulkar didn't play 5 tests vs Pakistan every 1.5 years. If he did, he would have been closer to 120 centuries.

It is Tendulkar’s good fortune that he didn’t play Tests vs Pakistan. He was clearly not up for the challenge mentally. Pakistan reduced him to a Pujara level batsman.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root is lucky not to face Steyn, Philander at their peak. If he faced them at their prime, his stats would have dented even more. In the 2016 series, SA were fielding bowlers like Chris Morris and Hardus Vijoen. Only Rabada was the quality bowler in that attack. In 2019-20 tour, he hardly got big runs despite Philander at verge of retirement picking only 8 wickets in 4 tests.

Root has to lot to improve in Aus, SA and India. In India, he got really good batting conditions in 2016-17 tour and pretty balanced pitches in last tour too. The 2021 tour when he was at his career’s prime was his golden chance to produce a series defining performance but he did nothing beyond first test which was a patta on Day 1 and 2.

In Australia, there is really nothing to write about.

Root has only dominated Sri Lanka out of all nations away from home. Yes, he has been excellent at home vs top teams too but away from home, he has just been a Sri Lanka basher.

 

[Varun]

It is Tendulkar’s good fortune that he didn’t play Tests vs Pakistan. He was clearly not up for the challenge mentally. Pakistan reduced him to a Pujara level batsman.

Both Tendulkar and Pujara would have made hay on the patta wickets in Pakistan if they got to play more on them (Tendulkar) or play at all (Pujara).

The only caveat is they should have had the opportunity to bat in those games - especially if Sehwag/Dravid blasted 500 runs off their own bats.

 

[mominsaigol]

Root isn't > Sachin but Indian posters need to calm down. I'm sick of this propaganda and you're clearly proving the OP right lol.

Root is a solid test batter, Their many Indian posters who have now created narratives such as flat track bully or bunny on pitches or Australia records when Sachin was even worse then Root against Aus , granted in odi's and not test.

Sachin is > Root but Root is an atg, this propaganda of downplaying root to a crap.batter and hyping Sachin up to a messiah needs to stop.

Theirs one so worship him only. No need to make the likes of Sachin, Sharukh Khan, Bumrah, Amita Bachin, Amir Khan, Priyanka chopra and God knows who else into your idols.

 

[Mamoon]

Both Tendulkar and Pujara would have made hay on the patta wickets in Pakistan if they got to play more on them (Tendulkar) or play at all (Pujara).

The only caveat is they should have had the opportunity to bat in those games - especially if Sehwag/Dravid blasted 500 runs off their own bats.

Tendulkar played on dead wickets vs Pakistan home and away and couldn’t even average more than 42-43.

He failed on the same pitches where Sehwag and Dravid made hay vs Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

Root is lucky not to face Steyn, Philander at their peak. If he faced them at their prime, his stats would have dented even more.

Deluded Indian fans would have said the same had Root not faced prime Bumrah.

Root faced prime Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions and kicked his backside left right and center.

 

[Mamoon]

Root overtaking Sachin would cause even more heartburn for Indian fans because of the fact that no team has conceded more runs to Root than….drum roll….India.

Not only have they conceded the most runs by volume, Root’s average of 58 vs India is his highest average (min. 15 innings) vs any team.

No one asked India to roll over for Root. The fact is that Root wouldn’t even have been in contention to overtake Sachin if Indian bowlers were good enough to bowl to him.

 

[Hawkeye]

Deluded Indian fans would have said the same had Root not faced prime Bumrah.

Root faced prime Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions and kicked his backside left right and center.

On one hand Indian fans say Bumrah is the greatest bowler of all time and above even Steyn.

And when Root smashes peak Bumrah all around the park they come up with “but but but he didn’t face Steyn!!!111”.

Ugh.

Make up your mind Indians.

Either Bumrah is equal to or better than Steyn or he’s a nobody and Morkel level.

 

[atreus]

I see how the Indians fans are borderline toxic to Root here and Pakistani fans to Tendulkar, Tribalism is sad guys, they're both great bats though one (Tendulkar) is clearly better than the other, it doesn't mean the other isn't one of the ever either.

 

[Ab Fan]

Deluded Indian fans would have said the same had Root not faced prime Bumrah.

Root faced prime Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions and kicked his backside left right and center.

What did Root do in India? Performed in 1 inning in the series. Or Are you saying and accepted that Bumrah is better than Steyn now?

Anyways, Root has weakness vs pace and bounce. His struggle vs Cummins is a well known thing. Facing Steyn and Philander in SA would have been nightmare for him, he has given enough evidence to suggest he is no Virat Kohli vs pace and bounce and has weakness in those conditions. He is yet to face real challenging conditions or bowling attack of known quality in SA and yet his record there is nothing special.

 

[atreus]

What did Root do in India? Performed in 1 inning in the series. Or Are you saying and accepted that Bumrah is better than Steyn now?

Anyways, Root has weakness vs pace and bounce. His struggle vs Cummins is a well known thing. Facing Steyn and Philander in SA would have been nightmare for him, he has given enough evidence to suggest he is no Virat Kohli vs pace and bounce and has weakness in those conditions. He is yet to face real challenging conditions or bowling attack of known quality in SA and yet his record there is nothing special.

Rabada is better than either in South Africa and he doesn't struggle witn him, also his technical flaw is with express pace + constant high bounce, bounce in South Africa is variable and Philander is the farthest thing from express pace, he is entirely a low bounce + sideway movement merchant, he isn't gonna pressure him.

Steyn, well, ifs and buts but considering how he plays Rabada and Bumrah he'll be fine. Morkel might be annoying though with the high bounce he gets from height.

 

[Ab Fan]

It’s a valid point made by @Buffet.

Root has toured South Africa twice, Australia thrice and India thrice. That’s 8 tours where he has batted vs top teams and they were in good batting friendly conditions and all he has managed is a total of 4 tons.

8 tours, 37 matches, 4 tons only.

Virat Kohli for example has 7 tons in Australia only.

Steve Smith would have 7-8 tons or more in India and England combined.

Root only has 4 tons in 37 matches in India, Australia and South Africa.

That by no means is what ATGs achieve over their test career. It is more on lines of Clarke level performance.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rabada is better than either in South Africa and he doesn't struggle witn him, also his technical flaw is with express pace + constant high bounce, bounce in South Africa is variable and Philander is the farthest thing from express pace, he is entirely a low bounce + sideway movement merchant, he isn't gonna pressure him.

Steyn, well, ifs and buts but considering how he plays Rabada and Bumrah he'll be fine. Morkel might be annoying though with the high bounce he gets from height.

Rabada is not better than Steyn. How did he become better? Moreover, in South African conditions, Philander is actually even more effective in SA.

Root has had relatively more easier challenges to deal in Sourh Africa as compared to what Kohli or Williamson got. Imagine facing them as a bowling attack combined, that’s a real nightmare for any batsman.

 

[atreus]

Rabada is not better than Steyn. How did he become better? Moreover, in South African conditions, Philander is actually even more effective in SA.

Root has had relatively more easier challenges to deal in Sourh Africa as compared to what Kohli or Williamson got. Imagine facing them as a bowling attack combined, that’s a real nightmare for any batsman.

Rabada has a bowling average of 19 odd with the strike rate of 33 odd in South Africa, Literally absurd, other SA bowlers in Steyn's career average 25 while Rabada they average 21, truth is South Africa in modern times is far, far tougher as far as conditions go than it was in Steyn's era. South Africa these days take 3-4 bowlers with inexperienced batting so they make the pitches pacer friendly, back then they were more balanced as south Africa had an ATG batting lineup.

Eh, Root faced Rabada, Steyn and Morkel in 2016 and had a 55 averaging series, only one pitch was flat and he didn't bother scoring there anyway (it was a draw). Virat gets horrible tracks there as CSA seems bitter about the 2015 Indian pitches, Kane? eh, not really? at home Rabada is more threatening in modern times than Steyn, and Kane averages 21 to Root's 50 so doesn't mean anything anyway.

 

[Varun]

Tendulkar played on dead wickets vs Pakistan home and away and couldn’t even average more than 42-43.

He failed on the same pitches where Sehwag and Dravid made hay vs Pakistan.

Pakistan were lucky to dodge Tendulkar through his 90s peak, and after that, only saw him during his tennis elbow days - where he still piled on the runs like 194* Multan (after S and D had pounded you into submission). If there was no declaration in that game, Pakistan would have been the first team to concede 2 triple centurions in a single game.

Of course, I am only talking about test cricket. ODIs were more common and the two countries didn't go years without playing them like the test series. Right from your hero Imran Khan all the way to Afridi, Tendulkar was MoM or top scorer in all world cup matches leading to a streak you are now counting on Mohammad Rizwan to break in 2027.

 

[Buffet]

Rabada has a bowling average of 19 odd with the strike rate of 33 odd in South Africa, Literally absurd, other SA bowlers in Steyn's career average 25 while Rabada they average 21, truth is South Africa in modern times is far, far tougher as far as conditions go than it was in Steyn's era. South Africa these days take 3-4 bowlers with inexperienced batting so they make the pitches pacer friendly, back then they were more balanced as south Africa had an ATG batting lineup.

Eh, Root faced Rabada, Steyn and Morkel in 2016 and had a 55 averaging series, only one pitch was flat and he didn't bother scoring there anyway (it was a draw). Virat gets horrible tracks there as CSA seems bitter about the 2015 Indian pitches, Kane? eh, not really? at home Rabada is more threatening in modern times than Steyn, and Kane averages 21 to Root's 50 so doesn't mean anything anyway.

Agree with this mostly. SA pitches have been more spicy in recent years. Rabada is not really standing out among others. Other SA pacers has done equally well as Rabada in the last 5 years. Virat does get horroble pitches in SA due to bitterness with 2015 Indian series.

 

[KP From India]

Some one should start a thread on this, it will be an interesting discussion. That way this thread remains on track.

No point in comparing a bowler to a batsman.
Comparison should be between 50+ averaging batsmen of similar era.
Let's leave Ponting aside.
Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis and Sangakkara had similar level teams( Good but not Great, Great batting/Serviceable bowling of vice a versa.
What are Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis and Sangakkara records in Tests won, Lost and drawn?

 

[Buffet]

It’s a valid point made by @Buffet.

Root has toured South Africa twice, Australia thrice and India thrice. That’s 8 tours where he has batted vs top teams and they were in good batting friendly conditions and all he has managed is a total of 4 tons.

8 tours, 37 matches, 4 tons only.

Virat Kohli for example has 7 tons in Australia only.

Steve Smith would have 7-8 tons or more in India and England combined.

Root only has 4 tons in 37 matches in India, Australia and South Africa.

That by no means is what ATGs achieve over their test career. It is more on lines of Clarke level performance.

It has not been easy to score a ton for vistors in SA, Aus, Eng and Ind since Root Debuted. India had Ashwin/BUmrah, Eng had Anderson/Broad , SA had Steyn/Rabada , Aus had Johnson/Cummins

All visiting batsmen including Root have just 4-5 tons in these 4 venues. Smith and Kohli are exception. See below,


Tons by visiting batsmen in Eng, Aus, SA and Ind after Root debuted.





But then to make a case for greatness, you got be an exception.

There is level for being very good and for being great. Fans can have diferent cut offs but I draw a line with doing well away. Yes, I expect to have a good record at home by default. That's minimum requirment. I mean Root is jsut a test specialis and play long series often in these countries. In fact, you can see that no one else has played more tests in these venues as visitor after his debute.

 

[Buffet]

No point in comparing a bowler to a batsman.

Ashwin and Anderson, both are bowler. I am not sure if you are quoting me by mistake. Why will I compare a batsman with a bowler.

 

[KP From India]

Ashwin and Anderson, both are bowler. I am not sure if you are quoting me by mistake. Why will I compare a batsman with a bowler.

Oh, I thought Anderson and Tendulkar.

 

[Romali_rotti]

@Buffet

Can you show how many 100s SRT had combined in Eng/SA/Aus and how many matches ?

Also please show how many 100s Root had in India/Aus/SA and how many test matches.

Cheers

 

[Buffet]

@Buffet

Can you show how many 100s SRT had combined in Eng/SA/Aus and how many matches ?

Also please show how many 100s Root had in India/Aus/SA and how many test matches.

Cheers

If you take away tons Ind, Aus, Eng and SA:

SRT : 15 tons in 52 tests
Root : 4 tons in 37 tests


You can see it youself for entire history of cricket involving only these 4 teams.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Root does not show up in the first page, but you can see him in next page.


I think it's easier to do the same generation comparisons because the same set of players in similar conditions are involved. That's why, away tons in Ind, SA, Eng, Aus after debute year of Root is a better way to compare. Everyone, including Root, has found it hard to score many tons. Main reason is that these 4 countries had many bowlers averaging below 25 with a large sample size. Only two batsmen have been able to score lots of tons, Smith and Kohli.

If Root can get a 2-3 big series in Ind, Aus, SA then it will up his tons tally, but it's easier said than done. The next series in Aus will be a big chance to increase tons tally. He just need to have 2-3 series like Pujara, Kohli, Smith, Warner etc had it these venues and not usual one or zero ton in long series with cute 50s. He has gotten much better in getting rid of cute 50s issues in recent years but not when playing in SA, Aus or Ind.

 

[Ab Fan]

It has not been easy to score a ton for vistors in SA, Aus, Eng and Ind since Root Debuted. India had Ashwin/BUmrah, Eng had Anderson/Broad , SA had Steyn/Rabada , Aus had Johnson/Cummins

All visiting batsmen including Root have just 4-5 tons in these 4 venues. Smith and Kohli are exception. See below,


Tons by visiting batsmen in Eng, Aus, SA and Ind after Root debuted.

View attachment 148175



But then to make a case for greatness, you got be an exception.

There is level for being very good and for being great. Fans can have diferent cut offs but I draw a line with doing well away. Yes, I expect to have a good record at home by default. That's minimum requirment. I mean Root is jsut a test specialis and play long series often in these countries. In fact, you can see that no one else has played more tests in these venues as visitor after his debute.

Number of test matches also matter. For example, Root has played 37 tests and only 4 tons.

Kohli and Smith have 11 tons respectively in same number of tests. Amla and Pant have 4 tons like Root but only in 17/19 matches respectively. That’s good enough for that sample size.

@atreus , @Mamoon quite clearly claim of Root being ATG seems over the top here because against top teams, the two standouts here are Smith and Kohli. This pretty much ends the whole debate and any argument favouring Root’s standing in Test cricket among ATGs.

 

[Buffet]

Number of test matches also matter. For example, Root has played 37 tests and only 4 tons.

Kohli and Smith have 11 tons respectively in same number of tests. Amla and Pant have 4 tons like Root but only in 17/19 matches respectively. That’s good enough for that sample size.

True, only 3 other batsmen have played 30 plus tests. Smith/Kohli/Pujara and all of them have more tons and Smith/Kojli actually have almost triple the numbers. Amla and Pant have same number of tons despite playing half. But Amla and Pant are fantastic players.

Root needs at least 2-3 big series in Aus, SA and India to catch up with tons tally of Smith/Kohli. I hope he starts it with a big series next Ashes and help his team to win or draw it. I am tired of Asjes in Aus being a one sided series. Ashes deserves a good contest even if it happens in Aus.

 

[Ab Fan]

^ Root seems to be way behind Amla and Pant also.

Root - 4 tons in 37 tests
Amla - 4 tons in 17 tests
Pant - 4 tons in 19 tests

 

[Romali_rotti]

There we have it folks this discussion is too one sided. It is cruel to compare SRT with Root, Root is way out of his depth here.

Let's see if Root can be in the league of Steve Smith when his career comes to an end. Stat padding by scoring cheap runs on easy wickets won't cut it I am afraid.

 

[Buffet]

There we have it folks this discussion is too one sided. It is cruel to compare SRT with Root, Root is way out of his depth here.

Let's see if Root can be in the league of Steve Smith when his career comes to an end. Stat padding by scoring cheap runs on easy wickets won't cut it I am afraid.

Isn't it asking for a lot? Smith is the best 3 test batsman I have seen in the last 30 years alongside SRT and Lara.

Root has scored tons on some tough pitches as well at home so not all runs are cheap, but I can't think of any any ATGs who didn't go big few times in tough away tours despite playing so many long series. All of them scored more than one ton a few times and some of them did it in much shorter series as well.

Root does not need to finish at Smith's level. He needs to score 2-3 big series in Aus, Ind and SA where he can score more than one ton. Right now all serieses have been zero or one ton.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Btw , update on the SENA averages, Joe Root averages 43.4 in SENI, Kohli averages 44.7 in SENA

If this guy is better than Tendulkar than so is Kohli.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Deluded Indian fans would have said the same had Root not faced prime Bumrah.

Root faced prime Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions and kicked his backside left right and center.

Yeah some kick!.

Bumrah has dominated both Smith and Root, and that too consistently.

 

[Ab Fan]

Btw , update on the SENA averages, Joe Root averages 43.4 in SENI, Kohli averages 44.7 in SENA

If this guy is better than Tendulkar than so is Kohli.

This is adding more fuel to the fire.
So, Root is no match to Kohli and Smith when looking at SEI conditions in terms of not only tons but also in terms of average in SENA, he is at best comparable to Kohli.

This 43 average sounds like stats of VVS Laxman or Michael Clarke. This is pretty much what Joe Root’s level is right now in his favourite format, Test cricket. Including white ball will only put him well behind Smith, Kohli, ABDV and probably Warner as well. Comparisons with SRT, Ponting or Viv are laughable.

 

[Hitman]

There we have it folks this discussion is too one sided. It is cruel to compare SRT with Root, Root is way out of his depth here.

Let's see if Root can be in the league of Steve Smith when his career comes to an end. Stat padding by scoring cheap runs on easy wickets won't cut it I am afraid.

And if Indian fans and Indian media could ruin legacies with their 'propaganda', than Lara and Ponting would have had lesser legacies. On the other side, if Pakistani fans could decide legacies, Tendulkar would not have made it to 99% of every World XI and made it to top 5 of 99% of all All Time Greatest Cricketers list, and Miandad would have replaced Tendulkar in those teams and lists compiled.

Bottom line, you cannot evevate and reduce the legacy a player deserves. The cricketing world decides that, not the media.​

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan were lucky to dodge Tendulkar through his 90s peak, and after that, only saw him during his tennis elbow days - where he still piled on the runs like 194* Multan (after S and D had pounded you into submission). If there was no declaration in that game, Pakistan would have been the first team to concede 2 triple centurions in a single game.

Of course, I am only talking about test cricket. ODIs were more common and the two countries didn't go years without playing them like the test series. Right from your hero Imran Khan all the way to Afridi, Tendulkar was MoM or top scorer in all world cup matches leading to a streak you are now counting on Mohammad Rizwan to break in 2027.

Tendulkar was lucky to dodge Pakistan in Test cricket. First they made him pee his trousers when he was 16, then he bottled it in Chennai, then he played 4 Test series vs Pakistan in the 4 years and only scored 1 century across those 4 series and that too had to be cut short by his captain because he was stat padding after Pakistan was also buried thanks to Sehwag.

 

[Mamoon]

View attachment 148179

Yeah some kick!.

Bumrah has dominated both Smith and Root, and that too consistently.

This is not tennis. No one gives a flying fig about H2H stats between an individual batsman and bowler.

As a batsman, you are judged by how you do against bowling attacks not by how you do against individual bowlers.

Root averaged 100+ vs an Indian attack led by Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions. That is all.

 

[RexRex]

Tis shocking that a quality batsman like Root has zero knocks of worth in Australia, his biggest rival.

Maybe not so hi-quality after all ?

 

[Mamoon]

What did Root do in India? Performed in 1 inning in the series. Or Are you saying and accepted that Bumrah is better than Steyn now?

Anyways, Root has weakness vs pace and bounce. His struggle vs Cummins is a well known thing. Facing Steyn and Philander in SA would have been nightmare for him, he has given enough evidence to suggest he is no Virat Kohli vs pace and bounce and has weakness in those conditions. He is yet to face real challenging conditions or bowling attack of known quality in SA and yet his record there is nothing special.

Root has done far better in India than Kohli has done in England.

 

[Mamoon]

Tis shocking that a quality batsman like Root has zero knocks of worth in Australia, his biggest rival.

Maybe not so hi-quality after all ?

Statistical anomalies are always there. It is cricket.

For example, billions of Indians worship a godly batsman who could only average 42-43 vs Pakistan in Test cricket in spite of the fact he had the advantage of playing in conditions that suited him.

 

[Bhaijaan]

In all honesty, Root is having a test career similar to what Sangakkara, Kallis had only that his test average is much inferior but overall a lot of test runs and centuries playing in the shadows of much more popular batters of his era.

Just like Tendulkar, Lara and to a lesser extent Ponting were THE batters if their era ahead of Kallis, Sangakkara.

In this era it is Virat Kohli who has comfortably been THE batters of this era. He maybe out of form but it takes one century like last week or one match winning knock like against Pakistan at MCG in 2002 to make everyone bow down to him immediately.

As much as we rightly try to narrow it down to formats, but people have historically shown a tendency to rate cricketers in totality across formats which is why Tendulkar is the GOAT in his era for dominating both formats and the same reason why Virat is the GOAT in this era because in totality he’s dominated cricket for almost two decades now across formats and leagues with Root, Smith, Williamson and all people distant contenders to him.

It’s the same reason why Bumrah is the GOAT in this era with just 160 something test wickets. In totality he’s been by far the greatest bowler of this era.

All said and done Root is a very fine person and a very fine batter of this era and must be given all the due respect. Threads like this are just a propaganda to attract unwarranted criticism and ridicule to such cricketers and Pakistanis are masters of creating such propaganda threads from which even their own cricketers are not immune. Their understanding of the game is mediocre which could be a case of low IQ and could be connected to generational inbreeding hence I generally don’t debate this topic much as it could be hurtful to many so it’s better to avoid. But all said and done, I don’t know what purpose do threads like Younis Khan vs Sachin, Root vs Sachin etc. serve other than the inferior batting getting ridiculed by educated fans of the game.

 

[RexRex]

Statistical anomalies are always there. It is cricket.

For example, billions of Indians worship a godly batsman who could only average 42-43 vs Pakistan in Test cricket in spite of the fact he had the advantage of playing in conditions that suited him.

It's a grave anomaly.

Australia, unlike Pakistan, are the gold standard in world cricket. All the greats like Kohli, Lara, Sachin and KP have mutiple tons against the ozzies. Root has failed on mutiple tours, a bunny down under.

 

[atreus]

Number of test matches also matter. For example, Root has played 37 tests and only 4 tons.

Kohli and Smith have 11 tons respectively in same number of tests. Amla and Pant have 4 tons like Root but only in 17/19 matches respectively. That’s good enough for that sample size.

@atreus , @Mamoon quite clearly claim of Root being ATG seems over the top here because against top teams, the two standouts here are Smith and Kohli. This pretty much ends the whole debate and any argument favouring Root’s standing in Test cricket among ATGs.

Yeah Kohli is better against Pace/Bounce than Root is, he is also better than a lot of ATGs against Pace and Bounce, don't know why that makes his argument strong as he has always been weak to sideways movement and quality spin.

I hope you're ready to use the same logical thinking and have Kohli above Viv too lol

 

[atreus]

It's a grave anomaly.

Australia, unlike Pakistan, are the gold standard in world cricket. All the greats like Kohli, Lara, Sachin and KP have mutiple tons against the ozzies. Root has failed on mutiple tours, a bunny down under.

Kevin Pietersen over Joe Root? Yikes

 

[Varun]

Tendulkar was lucky to dodge Pakistan in Test cricket. First they made him pee his trousers when he was 16, then he bottled it in Chennai, then he played 4 Test series vs Pakistan in the 4 years and only scored 1 century across those 4 series and that too had to be cut short by his captain because he was stat padding after Pakistan was also buried thanks to Sehwag.

Make Joe Root have a tennis elbow (god forbid) and watch his stats in Australia flounder from the current Asad Shafiq level 35.68 average to a Vernon Philander level 27.42.

 

[Hellion]

Root first needs to finish his career with a batting average of 50 + before his fans and pseudo fans start jizzing themselves.

 

[atreus]

don't really know what to say here other than I'm seeing how things work around here, Pakistani fans would get someone and then overrated him over Tendulkar which makes zero sense here as Tendulkar is way clear of modern era batters, and then Indian fans would turn around and downplay that person to dust IE Root being Clarke level (lmao), tragic state of affairs.

 

[Rajdeep]

England's biggest rival is Australia and Ashes cricket for them is the pinnacle. So Root having 0 hundreds down under after playing 14 games and 3 tours is rightfully highlighted. Not sure why pointing that out irks some posters so much. His overall avgs of just 40 against Australia also means he cant handle pressure of Ashes series. Yes Root has great record against India and we all appreciate that. However, India is not the biggest rivalry as far as England cricket is concerned.

Next winter this time it will be 4th Australian tour by Root. If he still bats like a tailender there, he must consider retirement and not sticking around to beat Sachin's record just bcoz of some desperate Pakistani fans. He will never be better than Sachin anyway.

Also, Sachin's test avg of 42 against Pakistan is misplaced. Remember, even Kohli avgs 0 against Pakistan in test cricket. You can only score runs if you play and Sachin didn't play with Pakistan at all in better part of his prime. Same goes for Pakistani fast bowlers and that is why Waqar Younis avg 52 with ball against India. Sachin had 3 man of the matches in 5 WC games where he played against Pakistan.

Having said all that avg of 42 in those era is still better than Root's embarrassing avg of 40 against Aussies.

#FACTS

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Root overtaking Sachin would cause even more heartburn for Indian fans because of the fact that no team has conceded more runs to Root than….drum roll….India.

Not only have they conceded the most runs by volume, Root’s average of 58 vs India is his highest average (min. 15 innings) vs any team.

No one asked India to roll over for Root. The fact is that Root wouldn’t even have been in contention to overtake Sachin if Indian bowlers were good enough to bowl to him.

Yeah, Root is going to average less than 50 even if he does achieve that feat and that's gonna be amazing. This guy is struggling to average 50 in his prime.

How stupid is this - Indian fans reaching new lows every day.

This is not tennis. No one gives a flying fig about H2H stats between an individual batsman and bowler.

As a batsman, you are judged by how you do against bowling attacks not by how you do against individual bowlers.

Root averaged 100+ vs an Indian attack led by Bumrah in excellent bowling conditions. That is all.

How stupid is this.

As a bowler you are judged by your individual bowling not the whole bowling attack, if you are judging root based on his individual performance than I am rating Bumrah by his individual performance. I know your iq is not high but this is layman stuff.

Also Bumrah has won 2 series against Root and has drawn one in England, so all in All Bumrah wins.

You told me Root has kicked Bumrah, when infact Bumrah has kicked him and you on the face.

 

[NishanKonar]

Joe Root is modern day Jacques Kallis or Hashim Amla. Terrific stats but always goes missing in tough conditions. Scores heavily at home but struggles overseas

True test of a ATG batter is his ability to score runs against tough opponents abroad. Scoring at home never has the same aura / value as u are used to such conditions. Zero tons in Australia is a huge red flag in his resume. U cannot be considered ATG if u fail consistently against ur biggest rival

 

[Mamoon]

Make Joe Root have a tennis elbow (god forbid) and watch his stats in Australia flounder from the current Asad Shafiq level 35.68 average to a Vernon Philander level 27.42.

Lame excuses. Tendulkar dominated Australia in the same period where he played 4 Test series vs Pakistan and only scored 1 century.

 

[Mamoon]

It's a grave anomaly.

Australia, unlike Pakistan, are the gold standard in world cricket. All the greats like Kohli, Lara, Sachin and KP have mutiple tons against the ozzies. Root has failed on mutiple tours, a bunny down under.

Funny how you sneaked Kohli and KP into the Test greats list as if nobody would notice. 47-48 averaging middle-order Test batsmen cannot be greats.

 

[Mamoon]

Root first needs to finish his career with a batting average of 50 + before his fans and pseudo fans start jizzing themselves.

Root has a much better chance of finishing with a 50+ average than Kohli.

Only in India can a 47-48 averaging Test batsman with less than 10k runs by the age of 36 be advertised as one of the GOATs of cricket, but then again, it is the same nation that has romanticized an inconsistent batsman like Laxman as a man of crisis and has advertised a bang average Test cricketer like Dhoni as a legendary WK batsman.

The Indian delusion needs to be studied.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Make Joe Root have a tennis elbow (god forbid) and watch his stats in Australia flounder from the current Asad Shafiq level 35.68 average to a Vernon Philander level 27.42.

Can't rely on what ifs. We can make similar excuses for most players.

 

[Hellion]

Root has a much better chance of finishing with a 50+ average than Kohli.

Only in India can a 47-48 averaging Test batsman with less than 10k runs by the age of 36 be advertised as one of the GOATs of cricket, but then again, it is the same nation that has romanticized an inconsistent batsman like Laxman as a man of crisis and has advertised a bang average Test cricketer like Dhoni as a legendary WK batsman.

The Indian delusion needs to be studied.

The whataboutism is completely unnecessary. If Root does average above 50 then we can discuss his greatness.

Does not matter if other batters are advertised as GOATs or not.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah, Root is going to average less than 50 even if he does achieve that feat and that's gonna be amazing. This guy is struggling to average 50 in his prime.

Root has a much better chance of finishing his career with a 50+ average than “GOAT” Kohli.

How stupid is this.

As a bowler you are judged by your individual bowling not the whole bowling attack, if you are judging root based on his individual performance than I am rating Bumrah by his individual performance. I know your iq is not high but this is layman stuff.

My IQ is 150+. If you have a problem you can take it up with Mensa.

Also Bumrah has won 2 series against Root and has drawn one in England, so all in All Bumrah wins.

You told me Root has kicked Bumrah, when infact Bumrah has kicked him and you on the face.

I love Bumrah. He is the guy who gifted Pakistan the Champions Trophy and orchestrated the biggest thrashing ever in an ICC tournament final, a record that might never be broken because the chances of a team losing an ICC Final by 180 runs is extremely unlikely.

We will always be super grateful to Bumrah. He is a national hero in Pakistan. We will never forget his service to Pakistan cricket.

As a batsman, you are judged by how you perform against the overall attack. No one cares about performances against individual bowlers.

When people talk about XYZ’s batting record vs Australia, England, Pakistan, India etc., no one cares what the breakdown was vs individual bowlers. Similarly, when people talk about XYZ bowler’s record vs Australia, England, Pakistan, India etc., no one cares about breakdown vs individual batsmen.

This is just a deflection exercise to cover up the fact that Root has dominated India in swinging conditions. His batting in the 2021 series was one of the highest levels of batting ever demonstrated and anyone who has any appreciation for Test cricket would recognize that.

I can understand the frustration of Indian fans. Root has a strong chance of overtaking Tendulkar, he has scored more runs and centuries vs india than any other nation, and he also denied India an opportunity of winning a series in England, which means that the so called GOAT Asian Test team has won 0 away Test series vs the top sides minus their bogey team, Australia.

 

[Mamoon]

The whataboutism is completely unnecessary. If Root does average above 50 then we can discuss his greatness.

Does not matter if other batters are advertised as GOATs or not.

It is not. Any India who criticizes Root’s average will be shown his station by being reminded of how big of a circus clown Kohli has been in Test cricket post COVID.

Indians have some nerve to talk about Root’s average when Kohli himself is averaging 47-48.

 

[Hellion]

It is not. Any India who criticizes Root’s average will be shown his station by being reminded of how big of a circus clown Kohli has been in Test cricket post COVID.

Indians have some nerve to talk about Root’s average when Kohli himself is averaging 47-48.

What station? Kohli is not an ATG in Test cricket . Go and remind those who have claimed that. Instead of mouthing off randomly

 

[Romali_rotti]

It is not. Any India who criticizes Root’s average will be shown his station by being reminded of how big of a circus clown Kohli has been in Test cricket post COVID.

Indians have some nerve to talk about Root’s average when Kohli himself is averaging 47-48.

I would agree that Kohli post Covid totally ruined his legacy, only way to claim the atg status back is to have phenomenal series in Aus, ENg and SA...

 

[Buffet]

If Root does average above 50 then we can discuss his greatness.

He will go down as an ATG if he has couple of big series in tough tours. He can average 49.

Avg of 49 + big series in tough tours >> avg of 50 with no big series in tough tours.

Some era like 2000s were drastically easier to bat due to universal flat pitches so averaging 50 plus was much easier if you happen to play during that period. I think this short cut of 50 avg is good but still a short cut.

 

[BaankeJi]

Not sure why India are so obsessed with Root’s record in Australia. He is only one century away from surpassing Tendulkar’s bang average legacy in Pakistan.

Also, if Root scores a century in Australia, it won’t be a fraud innings like Tendulkar’s 194* in Multan, which was such a selfish stat padding effort that Dravid and Ganguly risked incurring the wrath of billions of fanatics when they declared the inning and refused to let Tendulkar score a selfish 200*.

Both families received death threats on that day and had to deploy extra security for the next few weeks.

How do you classify Root's legacy in Australia? Will he surpass Tendulkar's bang average legacy in Pakistan? What are the chances?

 

[Varun]

Lame excuses. Tendulkar dominated Australia in the same period where he played 4 Test series vs Pakistan and only scored 1 century.

Yep, Tendulkar scored a near double century (194*) and a near century (94) in the 12 tests across those 4 series. Meanwhile, Root is yet to clock up even a single century - near or far - versus Australia across 14 tests.

Umar Akmal could have done better, given the opportunity.

 

[Mamoon]

Yep, Tendulkar scored a near double century (194*) and a near century (94) in the 12 tests across those 4 series. Meanwhile, Root is yet to clock up even a single century - near or far - versus Australia across 14 tests.

Umar Akmal could have done better, given the opportunity.

That 194* was such a joke his captain forced him to declare because he was stat padding. It is one of the humiliating moments in Tendulkar’s career. The value of your innings can be summed up by the fact that your captain isn’t even interested in waiting for one more over for you to get to the milestone.

Tendulkar’s face as he left the pitch and made the slow walk to the dressing room is a sight that we will never forget.

Tendulkar was a bigger joke in Pakistan than Root is in Australia because Pakistani conditions were much more similar to Indian conditions so it was much easier to Tendulkar to score in Pakistan as opposed to Root scoring in Australia.

The difference between English and Australian conditions are far greater than the difference between Pakistan and Indian conditions.

In addition, Root has the burden to carry the England batting in Australia because he has had very little support from others, although the upcoming Ashes might be a little different due to the emergence of Brook.

In comparison, Tendulkar couldn’t do jack vs Pakistan even though he had the likes of Sehwag and Dravid to do the heavy lifting for him.

 

[mominsaigol]

That 194* was such a joke his captain forced him to declare because he was stat padding. It is one of the humiliating moments in Tendulkar’s career. The value of your innings can be summed up by the fact that your captain isn’t even interested in waiting for one more over for you to get to the milestone.

Tendulkar’s face as he left the pitch and made the slow walk to the dressing room is a sight that we will never forget.

Tendulkar was a bigger joke in Pakistan than Root is in Australia because Pakistani conditions were much more similar to Indian conditions so it was much easier to Tendulkar to score in Pakistan as opposed to Root scoring in Australia.

The difference between English and Australian conditions are far greater than the difference between Pakistan and Indian conditions.

In addition, Root has the burden to carry the England batting in Australia because he has had very little support from others, although the upcoming Ashes might be a little different due to the emergence of Brook.

In comparison, Tendulkar couldn’t do jack vs Pakistan even though he had the likes of Sehwag and Dravid to do the heavy lifting for him.

That innings by Tendulkar was one of his biggest stains.

It's why alot of people in Urdu commonly say

"Sachin bhoot Acha player tha, magar apnei lyei khelta tha"

^^ Id be a Billionaire if I got 100 dollars every time I heard this quote lol.

People point to this exact innings to justify their case.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Deep dive into Tendulkars stats in Aus and he racked it up mainly in the most subcontinent friendly pitch at Sydney which back then was either helpful to spinners or a phatta.

 

[Rajdeep]

That innings by Tendulkar was one of his biggest stains.

It's why alot of people in Urdu commonly say

"Sachin bhoot Acha player tha, magar apnei lyei khelta tha"

^^ Id be a Billionaire if I got 100 dollars every time I heard this quote lol.

People point to this exact innings to justify their case.

How can that innings be a stain considering India went onto win that game?

I thought the accusation against him by Pakistanis was whenever he used to score century India used to lose?

Everyday I get to hear a new logic here.

And who had stained that innings? Not any Indians that I know off. Are you talking about Pakistanis who is yet to produce a batsman 25% of his calibre?

 

[Rajdeep]

Sachin with his 49 test centuries, 16 thousand test runs by playing for 22 years yet maintaining 54 avg was not a match winner according to Pakistanis.

Joe Root without a single century in Australia after 3 tours/14 tests and avg only 40 in Ashes series is an ATG.

The extent these guys go I tell you.

One dude was even arguing with me yesterday using big words like intent, x-factor etc. Probably have watched too many Shahid Afridi batting vidoes in youtube.

 

[Rajdeep]

Deep dive into Tendulkars stats in Aus and he racked it up mainly in the most subcontinent friendly pitch at Sydney which back then was either helpful to spinners or a phatta.

Sachin scored a test century in Perth as an 18 year old.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Deep dive into Tendulkars stats in Aus and he racked it up mainly in the most subcontinent friendly pitch at Sydney which back then was either helpful to spinners or a phatta.

Which is why Joe Root is terrible, he can't even score on a Sydney Phatta.

 

[Rajdeep]

Deep dive into Tendulkar's stats it seems.

If we start doing deep dive and nitpicking for the sake of it, every cricketer will have some flaws or the other including Bradman.

More importantly, if we start doing deep dive there won't be any ATG players in Pakistans history including Ws, Xs or Ys whatever you call them.

 

[Rajdeep]

Which is why Joe Root is terrible, he can't even score on a Sydney Phatta.

Poor Joe in the firing line of Indians just bcoz Pakistani's want him to do the dirty job for them bcoz their own country is incapable of producing a class batsman.

I actually admire Joe Root a lot as a batsman. However, you cannot compare him to an institution of batsmanship like Tendulkar. Rooty himself will laugh at the desperation of some here.