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[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast-bowler in the world right now

jnaveen1980 said:
DOn't care what you view that as. THat is a fact. So basically when team loses fans cry. I presume you do that too when your team loses. With that theory i cry a lot less than you.
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I don't cry at all, difference is I know Pakistan is a average side in all 3 formats

So my sense of reality is that they ain't going to win trophies. I dont over hype players like gods.

I have a sense a reality for all sports teams I follow.

Yet you guys think whole world revolves around India so when you do fail you do cry.

I didn't expect Pakistan to get out of the group stages of the last 2 ODI world cup, they didnt. So my sense of reality was proven right.

Yet you think India has a god given right to win everything, when they don't you roll out the excuses and tears

Huge difference, I ain't delusional about my team and players
 
Amjid Javed said:
I don't cry at all, difference is I know Pakistan is a average side in all 3 formats

So my sense of reality is that they ain't going to win trophies. I dont over hype players like gods.

I have a sense a reality for all sports teams I follow.

Yet you guys think whole world revolves around India so when you do fail you do cry.

I didn't expect Pakistan to get out of the group stages of the last 2 ODI world cup, they didnt. So my sense of reality was proven right.

Yet you think India has a god given right to win everything, when they don't you roll out the excuses and tears

Huge difference, I ain't delusional about my team and players
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You are doing right now. This post is proof lol Case closed.
 
Fox's broadcast of bowler's biomechanics has cast a huge doubt on the legality of Bumrah's action. RP Singh had hyperextension but he had one of the cleanest actions. You can't exonerate Bumrah's chucking by dismissing it as hyperextension. Hyperextension just means that you can put your arm go beyond 180 degrees. That doesn't mean that you necessarily need to have a bend in your action.
 
shariqnoor said:
Fox's broadcast of bowler's biomechanics has cast a huge doubt on the legality of Bumrah's action. RP Singh had hyperextension but he had one of the cleanest actions. You can't exonerate Bumrah's chucking by dismissing it as hyperextension. Hyperextension just means that you can put your arm go beyond 180 degrees. That doesn't mean that you necessarily need to have a bend in your action.
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Take it to that "leagality of bumrah action" thread. This is just about his status.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc struggled to remove Thakur and Sundar (was basically a net bowler) in the Gabba test lol. They must be chokers too. They couldn't dislodge Ashwin/Vihari (both injured) for 43 overs. They must be chokers too. You can pick and choose such instances for any bowler.
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They haven't frozen pretty much all the time like bumrah in knockout stages. They all have helped Australia win WC's and have memorable performances at knockout stages while bumrah has forgettable ones.
 
khyberlion said:
They haven't frozen pretty much all the time like bumrah in knockout stages. They all have helped Australia win WC's and have memorable performances at knockout stages while bumrah has forgettable ones.
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Cummins ran away after first loss in India lol So should we call him a coward? Come on. He won because he had a good team. India had guys like Rahul, Kohli. india was 10/4 in 2019 semi final. You are blaming Bumrah. That is stupid. Atleast be objective to fault where the issue is. So MSD dropping a catch, Kohli dropping a catch is an excuse?
 
jnaveen1980 said:
How are these excuses. Do you watch the match or just say from cricinfo. In the WC 2019 he bowled brilliantly. Removed Guptill in 4th over. He was outstanding in first spell. Then for some weird reason Kohli did not bring him for 22 overs. After 22 overs when he was brought on he created a chance first over. MS Dhoni spilled an easy catch. You basically say if a bowler is part of a failed match then he is a choker lol Marshall, Ambrose, Bishop have all been part of lost world cups. They must be chokers too.
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I watched the game and have watched pretty much every ball of WC semi finals from 2007 onwards. If you watched the WC you would know that guptill was one of the worst players in that WC, so it's not an achievement getting him out. He was outbowled by pretty much every NZ pacer. If and buts don't work. Can you name any memorable performances by him in a WC knockout games. You are comparing him with guys who have already proven them self by winning WC.
 
Amjid Javed said:
I ain't crying 🤡, I'm responding you. I already explained my stance and reality on Pakistan team.

Not my fault your dumb enough to understand
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No you are venting about a team that is playing a team that repeately pound your team as well. Indians criticize their own team more than others. They are way more practical than you. You atleast should know where your team stands in different formats before mocking other teams. You got booted out by USA, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe. Lost to ireland as well. But for a few mistake Canada would ahve beaten you as well.
 
khyberlion said:
I watched the game and have watched pretty much every ball of WC semi finals from 2007 onwards. If you watched the WC you would know that guptill was one of the worst players in that WC, so it's not an achievement getting him out. He was outbowled by pretty much every NZ pacer. If and buts don't work. Can you name any memorable performances by him in a WC knockout games. You are comparing him with guys who have already proven them self by winning WC.
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"outbowled" is one of the over-rated term. Indian batting bricking it is not his fault. They just collapsed under pressure against bowlers. Not his fault. He did his bit. It was a case of NZ outbatted them. Even then India would have won but for MSD's run out as Jadeja was thrashing htem in the end. India lost because they had an unsettled line up. Bringing pant in at the last minute, playing DK as well. Total of 3 wicket keepers. You are pinning all the other chaos on Bumrah just because you have to make a case againt Bumrah. That is dishonest way of arguing.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Cummins ran away after first loss in India lol So should we call him a coward? Come on. He won because he had a good team. India had guys like Rahul, Kohli. india was 10/4 in 2019 semi final. You are blaming Bumrah. That is stupid. Atleast be objective to fault where the issue is. So MSD dropping a catch, Kohli dropping a catch is an excuse?
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I am not pinning the blame on bumrah alone. The Indian team is full of chokers and he's one of them. He's flopped in most of the crucial games for India. You already made plenty of excuses already.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
"outbowled" is one of the over-rated term. Indian batting bricking it is not his fault. They just collapsed under pressure against bowlers. Not his fault. He did his bit. It was a case of NZ outbatted them. Even then India would have won but for MSD's run out as Jadeja was thrashing htem in the end. India lost because they had an unsettled line up. Bringing pant in at the last minute, playing DK as well. Total of 3 wicket keepers. You are pinning all the other chaos on Bumrah just because you have to make a case againt Bumrah. That is dishonest way of arguing.
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Read the below post I am not pinning the blame on him alone. If anything you are being dishonest by making excuses. I have already called him one of the greats but it doesn't change the fact that he's a bottler. It has happened too many times. Some times he young other times it's batsmens fault, then it's his injury, then dropped catches.
 
khyberlion said:
I am not pinning the blame on bumrah alone. The Indian team is full of chokers and he's one of them. He's flopped in most of the crucial games for India. You already made plenty of excuses already.
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There are keepers, there are batsmen, bowlers, fielders. THey all have to come together to win matches.Besides teams come with a strategy of seeing him off carefully and going after others. In one dayers it is possible due to field sets, easy batting conditions.
 
khyberlion said:
Read the below post I am not pinning the blame on him alone. If anything you are being dishonest by making excuses. I have already called him one of the greats but it doesn't change the fact that he's a bottler. It has happened too many times. Some times he young other times it's batsmens fault, then it's his injury, then dropped catches.
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Dropped catches are not excuses. Those are game changing moments. HE dropped Ross Taylor who was taking the game away. Also not bringing him on for 22 overs was a cardinal sin.
 
People harp on about Bumrah being greatest All format bowler, yet in ODIs
He was exposed in a world cup semi vs NZ, a world cup final vs Aus and a CT final vs pakistan. No one cares what bowlers do in meaningless bilateral ODIs now, its pretty much what do you do in ODI ICC tournaments. I don't care what bowler x,y,z has or hasn't done. Bumrah has done fk all in ODI big games, let alone to be called an ATG ODI bowler.

It's actually embarrassing
 
jnaveen1980 said:
There are keepers, there are batsmen, bowlers, fielders. THey all have to come together to win matches.Besides teams come with a strategy of seeing him off carefully and going after others. In one dayers it is possible due to field sets, easy batting conditions.
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I don't deny that. That's why I think kohli is one of the most overrated player ever. Even with a ridiculous record he has, he hardly has any notable knockout games innings. Same is the case with bumrah at the moment.
 
Amjid Javed said:
People harp on about Bumrah being greatest All format bowler, yet in ODIs
He was exposed in a world cup semi vs NZ, a world cup final vs Aus and a CT final vs pakistan. No one cares what bowlers do in meaningless bilateral ODIs now, its pretty much what do you do in ODI ICC tournaments. I don't care what bowler x,y,z has or hasn't done. Bumrah has done fk all in ODI big games, let alone to be called an ATG ODI bowler.

It's actually embarrassing
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Shami is the GOAT in ODIs. Nobody has a world cup record like him that too in two new ball era.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Dropped catches are not excuses. Those are game changing moments. HE dropped Ross Taylor who was taking the game away. Also not bringing him on for 22 overs was a cardinal sin.
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Again if and buts. If he was bought on as you have suggested and got hit around you would have use the same excuse of why he was bought earlier.
 
khyberlion said:
I don't deny that. That's why I think kohli is one of the most overrated player ever. Even with a ridiculous record he has, he hardly has any notable knockout games innings. Same is the case with bumrah at the moment.
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Kohli can bat all 50 overs. Bumrah can bowl only 10 overs. That too 4 overs with bowling restriction.
 
khyberlion said:
Again if and buts. If he was bought on as you have suggested and got hit around you would have use the same excuse of why he was bought earlier.
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Fact is he didn't bring. So you cannot assume he would have failed. They never attempted to go after him.
 
Amjid Javed said:
People harp on about Bumrah being greatest All format bowler, yet in ODIs
He was exposed in a world cup semi vs NZ, a world cup final vs Aus and a CT final vs pakistan. No one cares what bowlers do in meaningless bilateral ODIs now, its pretty much what do you do in ODI ICC tournaments. I don't care what bowler x,y,z has or hasn't done. Bumrah has done fk all in ODI big games, let alone to be called an ATG ODI bowler.

It's actually embarrassing
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Who is the greatest all format bowler according to you? We can then compare his failures to Bumrahs.
 
anikrc1 said:
Who is the greatest all format bowler according to you? We can then compare his failures to Bumrahs.
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Someone who was taken apart in 1999 wc final? or 2003 world cup group stage? or someone who ran away being afraid of facing India in 1996?
 
Amjid Javed said:
People harp on about Bumrah being greatest All format bowler, yet in ODIs
He was exposed in a world cup semi vs NZ, a world cup final vs Aus and a CT final vs pakistan. No one cares what bowlers do in meaningless bilateral ODIs now, its pretty much what do you do in ODI ICC tournaments. I don't care what bowler x,y,z has or hasn't done. Bumrah has done fk all in ODI big games, let alone to be called an ATG ODI bowler.

It's actually embarrassing
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Let's also not forget he went wicket less in the WTC final. Agreed about the post I rather have a player score a match winning 80 odd in a WC final then him having 30 centuries in bilateral games.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Kohli can bat all 50 overs. Bumrah can bowl only 10 overs. That too 4 overs with bowling restriction.
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Like every other player. It's not limited to these guys. I know you don't want to accept it but this is the bottom line at the moment.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Someone who was taken apart in 1999 wc final? or 2003 world cup group stage? or someone who ran away being afraid of facing India in 1996?
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Wasim didn't play t-20s. No need to mention him. Actually that's what I don't like about comparing players between India and Pakistan. It makes us blind and we insult geniuses needlessly. Wasim was a genius, so is Bumrah, anyone with any cricketing sense can see that without going into statistics. We can compare them without making derogatory comments about one.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Someone who was taken apart in 1999 wc final? or 2003 world cup group stage? or someone who ran away being afraid of facing India in 1996?
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Seems like you are reaching here. No one mentioned any names.

Why don't you name all of Bumrahs ATG odi achievements?
 
Amjid Javed said:
Why are we comparing failures? What a dumb set of criteria. You compare best vs best what they have won.

So let me know what exactly are bumrahs great ODi achievements?
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Because you listed Bumrah's failures? Tournaments are not won by one player. You have repeatedly said that Marshall is the greatest bowler you have seen. Marshal didn't win a single world cup despite playing for the greatest or second greatest team ever? Steyn didn't win any odi or t-20 world cup. Yet most lists of greatest fast bowlers have them in top 6.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Seems like you are reaching here. No one mentioned any names.

Why don't you name all of Bumrahs ATG odi achievements?
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Indivdiual achievement is one of the best. IN 2 new ball era his ER is 4.23. SHami is the GOAT though. Better than Bumrah on par with anyone in history

Post 2011 world cup performance by bowlers.


Screenshot-2025-01-05-143237.jpg
 
The only bowler you can argue to not have any blemishes in his career is Mcgrath. He is the only bowler who have won everything. But something tells me if Mcgrath is rated higher than Imran and Wasim, you will take into account different things like team strength or catching ability etc.
 
anikrc1 said:
The only bowler you can argue to not have any blemishes in his career is Mcgrath. He is the only bowler who have won everything. But something tells me if Mcgrath is rated higher than Imran and Wasim, you will take into account different things like team strength or catching ability etc.
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If your goal is to put down a player you invent crappy filters lol That is what he is doing.
 
Again makes me laugh how insensitive and clueless most Indian fans are with this cross era nonsense.

If you go back in time to before T20 was players there was just 2 formats.

Teams put more emphasis on ODis, you had more tri series, multi team series outside of world cups

Now you have tests, t20, IPL, ODIs.

Let's be real team Litterally put bilateral ODI series as their lowest priority. That's a fact and how cricket is. Most players are more interested in playing T20 money leagues etc.. so essentially CT and ICC world cup are where teams put out full strength teams

Whereas before T20, teams took ODIs more serious. Comparing eras, when focus on games has shifted. Also ODIs have had that many rule changes thar players aren't playing in same conditions. Litterally in 80s you could have all your fielders out on boundary if you wanted in ODIs. Now you have restrictions etc ...

Lack of common sense from Indian fans is hilarious
 
anikrc1 said:
The only bowler you can argue to not have any blemishes in his career is Mcgrath. He is the only bowler who have won everything. But something tells me if Mcgrath is rated higher than Imran and Wasim, you will take into account different things like team strength or catching ability etc.
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Mcgrath was better than both in test by quite a bit.

In ODis mcgrath vs wasim is closer contest.
 
anikrc1 said:
Because you listed Bumrah's failures? Tournaments are not won by one player. You have repeatedly said that Marshall is the greatest bowler you have seen. Marshal didn't win a single world cup despite playing for the greatest or second greatest team ever? Steyn didn't win any odi or t-20 world cup. Yet most lists of greatest fast bowlers have them in top 6.
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I asked a simple question what has bumrah done in ODis that makes him the greatest ever ODI bowler?
 
jnaveen1980 said:
If your goal is to put down a player you invent crappy filters lol That is what he is doing.
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I don't really have a problem with him. Saying Bumrah bowled badly in the CT final or the 2019 semi final. But I have no idea how can any one who says that stats is not everything and you have to see them play can say that Bumrah bowled badly in the 2023 final. Bumrah was basically beating the Australian batsmen every second ball in his opening spell. Plus what he forgets is every bowler no matter how great he is has failed some time. Roger Binny won a world cup. Marshal didn't. I guess that makes Marshal a choker. Or for that matter Steyn
 
anikrc1 said:
I don't really have a problem with him. Saying Bumrah bowled badly in the CT final or the 2019 semi final. But I have no idea how can any one who says that stats is not everything and you have to see them play can say that Bumrah bowled badly in the 2023 final. Bumrah was basically beating the Australian batsmen every second ball in his opening spell. Plus what he forgets is every bowler no matter how great he is has failed some time. Roger Binny won a world cup. Marshal didn't. I guess that makes Marshal a choker. Or for that matter Steyn
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Mohidner AMarnath MOM in semi final and final (for bowling). Basically Amarnath outbowled Garner, Holding, Roberts lol
 
Amjid Javed said:
I asked a simple question what has bumrah done in ODis that makes him the greatest ever ODI bowler?
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Nobody ever said that lol We rate Shami above Bumrah within India even though he had this insane 2023 ER record as everyone tried to play him out. In a high scoring world cup where everyone went for well over only Bumrah and Hazlewood went below 5. Bumrah is closer to 4.00 which is good even in the 1980s


Screenshot-2025-01-05-144852.jpg
 
Amjid Javed said:
I asked a simple question what has bumrah done in ODis that makes him the greatest ever ODI bowler?
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No one said that Bumrah is the greatest ever odi bowler? In fact just from this generation Starc is better than him. You can argue for Shami and Hazelwood also. But Bumrah is quiet clearly the best test and t-20 bowler of this generation. That makes him the greatest all format bowler of all time, as previous era bowlers didn't play t-20.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Indivdiual achievement is one of the best. IN 2 new ball era his ER is 4.23. SHami is the GOAT though. Better than Bumrah on par with anyone in history

Post 2011 world cup performance by bowlers.


Screenshot-2025-01-05-143237.jpg
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Why just world cups? Is CT not an ODi tournament? Also the stats need context? Who were these wickets against? Which games were semi finals, finals etc.. your doing a buffet here and just posting stats which give zero indication of impact when it mattered.

For example shaheen is on that list for the large part his stats look good, but he's not done anything of real note in ODI ICC tournaments. So I mmaking this point as criteria is same for everyone

Whats context of these bowlers in the ODI tournaments they played.

Any bowler can have good stats, reality might be they performed in group stages, super sixes, super 8s etc... then failed in semi finals and finals
 
Amjid Javed said:
Why just world cups? Is CT not an ODi tournament? Also the stats need context? Who were these wickets against? Which games were semi finals, finals etc.. your doing a buffet here and just posting stats which give zero indication of impact when it mattered.

For example shaheen is on that list for the large part his stats look good, but he's not done anything of real note in ODI ICC tournaments. So I mmaking this point as criteria is same for everyone

Whats context of these bowlers in the ODI tournaments they played.

Any bowler can have good stats, reality might be they performed in group stages, super sixes, super 8s etc... then failed in semi finals and finals
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CT is a low quality tournament. Nobody cares. Unless you think bowlers should also score runs your argument makes no sense. This was ahigh scoring tournament where INdia posted a total well below par.
 
anikrc1 said:
I don't really have a problem with him. Saying Bumrah bowled badly in the CT final or the 2019 semi final. But I have no idea how can any one who says that stats is not everything and you have to see them play can say that Bumrah bowled badly in the 2023 final. Bumrah was basically beating the Australian batsmen every second ball in his opening spell. Plus what he forgets is every bowler no matter how great he is has failed some time. Roger Binny won a world cup. Marshal didn't. I guess that makes Marshal a choker. Or for that matter Steyn
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Steyn was a bonified chocker in ODI Icc tournaments.

In Tests he was one of best ever. ODIs he failed when it matter most, that's SA for you in ODIs chokers
 
Amjid Javed said:
Your only saying that because you got pasted in the final in 2017 and in general India have been embarrassing in most CT tournaments
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That's not true. We have won two CT and runner up in another two. We are probably the most successful team in CT history.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Your only saying that because you got pasted in the final in 2017 and in general India have been embarrassing in most CT tournaments
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Include Asia cup too then lol Both Srilanka and Bangladesh ahve done better than Pakistan against Bumrah

TeamMatOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIAveEconSR45
v Bangladesh217.417643/3719.004.3026.500view innings
v Pakistan422.147052/2314.003.1526.600view innings
v Sri Lanka212.025332/3017.664.4124.000view innings
 
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Amjid Javed said:
Asia cup ain't an ICC tournament
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I shared world cup stat too. He has insane stats. In 2023 as well. There is nothing wrong with his stat. Team not winning cannot be blamed on him. Even in this BGT he won player ofr the series. Nobody can deny his contribution. You are clutching at straw. You desperately try to link team win with Bumrah's performance.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Context - Bumrah should not have good numbers? Because he played only one CT. That too when he wsa completely raw. Developing bowler.
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I don't doubt he's got good numbers, my point is he's failed when it matter most In semi finals, finals. So how can you be greatest ODI bowler when you don't turn up in those games.

An ATG ODI bowler is someone like Warne who turned regularly in semi finals and finals for his team (yeah he's a spinner) but just proving a point on stats + achievements and impact
 
Amjid Javed said:
I don't doubt he's got good numbers, my point is he's failed when it matter most In semi finals, finals. So how can you be greatest ODI bowler when you don't turn up in those games.

An ATG ODI bowler is someone like Warne who turned regularly in semi finals and finals for his team (yeah he's a spinner) but just proving a point on stats + achievements and impact
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Why do you call it a failure? Second of all you are lying blatantly that we are calling him the greatest ODI bowler. I say he is the second best within India. You keep saying the same thing.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I shared world cup stat too. He has insane stats. In 2023 as well. There is nothing wrong with his stat. Team not winning cannot be blamed on him. Even in this BGT he won player ofr the series. Nobody can deny his contribution. You are clutching at straw. You desperately try to link team win with Bumrah's performance.
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I'd rate Mitchell starc as a better ODI bowler then Bumrah. Starc performed in both semi final and final in 2015 and 2023 world cups. Not only that he was best bowler in 2015.

That's an example of good stats, performed when it mattered most, achievements.

Doesn't mean bumrah isn't good, but until he makes a difference in semi finals and finals he ain't the greatest ODI bowler ever.
 
Amjid Javed said:
I'd rate Mitchell starc as a better ODI bowler then Bumrah. Starc performed in both semi final and final in 2015 and 2023 world cups. Not only that he was best bowler in 2015.

That's an example of good stats, performed when it mattered most, achievements.

Doesn't mean bumrah isn't good, but until he makes a difference in semi finals and finals he ain't the greatest ODI bowler ever.
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I don't say Bumrah is better than Starc. In the post 2 new ball era Starc and Shami are the stand out fast bowlers. Bumrah comes next
 
bumrah is a great bowler and one of the best in modern cricket but he’s not even in the debate when you talk about the greatest ever fast bowlers. He’s not even in the top 10 list of greatest fast bowlers. Pollock, Hadlee, McGrath, Akram, Lee, Ambrose they all wipe the floor with Bumrah
 
Amjid Javed said:
How can you be greatest all format bowler, if you have achieved anything of note in ODIs?
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I thought this thread about best fast bowler in the world right now. In current situatoin he is the best all format bowler given that he bowled his side to win in a near impossible situation in the world T20. He won man of the series too. Mcgrath is probably the best all format bowler. But he didn't play T20. Also in one dayers i do not compare anyone from 2 new ball era with anyone with 1 new ball where you got reverse. Also post 2015 they started having only 4 fielders during large chunk of 10 to 40th over. It is way overly batsman friendly. SO it is unfair to compare their stat with current bowlers. Current bowlers should be measure on a different scale.


Starc is definitely not ATG T20 bowler or Test bowler. Definitely one of the ATG ODI bowler. So it is highly subjective. Someone neutral has to make that call. For now Nasser Hussain has proclaimed "HE is the best all format bowler bar none" currently. There is no such thing ATG all format bowler given the rule changes that happeend over the years.
 
People claiming he’s the best have recency bias. His performance in the BGT was unreal but that still didn’t help India win anything. He needs to perform at this level for at least 4 more years and win India big trophies to be considered a great of the game.
 
Amjid Javed said:
How can you be greatest all format bowler, if you have achieved anything of note in ODIs?
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Let's keep bowlers before 2007 out of it as they never played t-20s. I would say after that the best test fast bowlers are Steyn Bumrah Cummins, Rabada and Anderson
The best odi fast bowlers are Starc Shami Hazelwood Boult and Bumarh. The best t-20 bowlers are Gul, Malinga, Bumrah, Hazelwood.. No idea about the 5th one. Basically I think Bumrah is the only one who can say he is among top 5 fast bowlers in every format. That makes him the greatest all format bolwer. Though I don't like mixing formats like this.
 
psyoptica said:
People claiming he’s the best have recency bias. His performance in the BGT was unreal but that still didn’t help India win anything. He needs to perform at this level for at least 4 more years and win India big trophies to be considered a great of the game.
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Don't you think that is ignorant post lol India's captain averaged 6 in this series. Kohl averaged 7 in the first innings in 2024. Jaiswal dropped 3 catches. Pant played a stupid shot. He got broken down.You are going to blame Bumrah for all that?
 
psyoptica said:
People claiming he’s the best have recency bias. His performance in the BGT was unreal but that still didn’t help India win anything. He needs to perform at this level for at least 4 more years and win India big trophies to be considered a great of the game.
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And let's be real, this performance against a garbage Aussie line up. Who even struggled against our fast bowling last December and also drew to a minnow WI side. Who won the same amount of Tests these bestest players in the entire universe did.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Don't you think that is ignorant post lol India's captain averaged 6 in this series. Kohl averaged 7 in the first innings in 2024. Jaiswal dropped 3 catches. Pant played a stupid shot. He got broken down.You are going to blame Bumrah for all that?
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Nope not blaming Bumrah at all. He was the reason India stayed slightly competitive but Bumrah ain’t richard hadlee who made a weak new zealand competitive and win historical test championships. He’s not even on the same level is Kapil Dev who captained his team and achieved memorable feats in Indian cricket history.
 
psyoptica said:
Nope not blaming Bumrah at all. He was the reason India stayed slightly competitive but Bumrah ain’t richard hadlee who made a weak new zealand competitive and win historical test championships. He’s not even on the same level is Kapil Dev who captained his team and achieved memorable feats in Indian cricket history.
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Impartial fans will be judge of that. So far they are in the opposite direction of you. I am sure you listened to every Australian commentators. Australian podcasts about him.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Impartial fans will be judge of that. So far they are in the opposite direction of you. I am sure you listened to every Australian commentators. Australian podcasts about him.
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Let’s see what the world says about him in a few years time or when he finishes his career.
 
psyoptica said:
Let’s see what the world says about him in a few years time or when he finishes his career.
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They are already saying that. Kerry O Keefe every sentence call him Greatest of all time. He did play with guys like LIllee, Thommo. Not a random forum poster like us.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
They are already saying that. Kerry O Keefe every sentence call him Greatest of all time. He did play with guys like LIllee, Thommo. Not a random forum poster like us.
Click to expand...
Like I said, it’s recency bias. Commentators have a habit of doing that getting excited in the moment without considering the historical context. Messi was being called the greatest of all time in 2010-11 when he was far from that. It took him year after year of consistent performances for 15 more years and winning world cup and copa trophies to finally cement his legacy and end the debate.
 
psyoptica said:
His performance in the BGT was unreal but that still didn’t help India win anything.
Click to expand...

Thread is still active, lol. Just saw this last 2-3 comments. This cracked me up.

Top 5 pacers : 5-fers in away win

1736112168735.png



Top 5 pacers in 5-fers in win -- Oh, we should ignore wins, it's about team.

Greatest display of fast bowling in decades with 32 wickets at Avg 13, - oh, he did not win anything.

Stand out in tough tours in entire history -- Oh, standard of cricket is poor.

No one else is doing what he is doing --- Oh, you are not showing any context.


It's circular logic and comical. I admit it's not all posters and all of them don't say the same thing, but hillarious to hear all these counter arguments taken together for the same player. None of these comments make any sense when you take entire picture.


Some time it's far easier to take your hats off and admire a genius who has left most greats behind and comfortably among the top 10 test pacers in history right now. Exact place will be determined only after he hangs his boots. He is not the top 5 in test for me yet. Some way to go.

---------------------

Comments with curcular logics are entertaining.

Ducking out of here because I don't have anything to add and thread has lost it's purpose. He is so much ahead of other pacers of his generation that it's meanigless to discuss.
 
psyoptica said:
Like I said, it’s recency bias. Commentators have a habit of doing that getting excited in the moment without considering the historical context. Messi was being called the greatest of all time in 2010-11 when he was far from that. It took him year after year of consistent performances for 15 more years and winning world cup and copa trophies to finally cement his legacy and end the debate.
Click to expand...

He has already toured twice. This is not receny bias. If he had no injured he could have potentiall gone closer to Ambrose. They know what they are talking about.

Screenshot-2025-01-05-154854.jpg
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He has already toured twice. This is not receny bias. If he had no injured he could have potentiall gone closer to Ambrose. They know what they are talking about.

Screenshot-2025-01-05-154854.jpg
Click to expand...

Yeah he has toured in Aus twice and won series but stats don't matter to Pakistanis here because for this instance as they don't have stats to back up their arguement, their cover is: trust me bro...
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He has already toured twice. This is not receny bias. If he had no injured he could have potentiall gone closer to Ambrose. They know what they are talking about.

Screenshot-2025-01-05-154854.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh interesting, I didn't realise even Kapil Dev has outbowled Wasim in Aus.

:ba_shock
 
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