Raymond Davis Case

Well everyone criticizing my last post, well we got what we deserved, our govt., was bent upon releasing Davis without anything, so in that regard its good the family got something, and regarding talking about our national pride and citizens lives being important, well we gave all that away when we picked up the "kashkool" for begging.
 
hey its not like raymond davis paid this out personally... this sort of money is peanuts for a government to pay out to save a spy who was caught red handed!

pakistan government again has shown itself to be a complete joke! now imagine if a ISI spy killed to guys in the UK or US and tell me if they would get let off scot free?

What does Shariah say about where the money has to come from?

Is it still permissible to 'forgive' after taking money if the money did not come from the offender himself?
 
What does Shariah say about where the money has to come from?

Is it still permissible to 'forgive' after taking money if the money did not come from the offender himself?

i guess they didnt read up on that part of the small print. An absolute joke to use this to get out of what was an obvious case of murder and espionage.
 
What does Shariah say about where the money has to come from?

Is it still permissible to 'forgive' after taking money if the money did not come from the offender himself?
Err, can't the US government easily give him a "bonus" that Davis can then use ? All of his money has come from the US government anyway.
 
oh boy, the liberals fascists in Pakistanis are having a field day over this application of sharia law. This will further strengthen their atheistic beliefs. If only they took the time out to actually read about origin of deeyat. But oh well. Let them have their mazey
 
Imran Khan just came on ARY digital calling this whole event a fraud fixed at beforehand. Calling the government shoe polishers of the Americans.

Tehrik e Insaf will also hold demonstrations on friday.

Perhaps some one can upload the video.
 
Imran Khan just came on ARY digital calling this whole event a fraud fixed at beforehand. Calling the government shoe polishers of the Americans.

Tehrik e Insaf will also hold demonstrations on friday.

Perhaps some one can upload the video.

how is this a fraud?

The family has accepted the money. The family has accepted the US visa. They want to move to a better life there.

Now let us please move on
 
How on earth can this law be described as 'barbaric' of all things?


people are just stupid and think that they are too advanced for any law. if they think that islamic laws are barbaris then i recommend them to renounce Islam all together, and to convert to some other religion.
 
people are just stupid and think that they are too advanced for any law. if they think that islamic laws are barbaris then i recommend them to renounce Islam all together, and to convert to some other religion.

its barbaric in this case because it allows someone with wealth and power (US government) to simply pay a pitance for taking a life. I bet raymond davis never had to meet the family to appologise for the death.
 
The most realistic and probably the best solution.

The US have to pay up.

The family benefits financially and could change their lives.
 
its barbaric in this case because it allows someone with wealth and power (US government) to simply pay a pitance for taking a life. I bet raymond davis never had to meet the family to appologise for the death.

this is a win-win deal for all parties

What the hell could the the family have achieved by continuing to live in their oppressive lives where they never had the luxery of electricity, food, clean water, health and education for their children?

Now, they will have the money (60m Rs) and the country (US) where their children can live a prosperous lives. Put yourself in the family situation. Go to their home and spend a week there. It would be craziness of epic proportions to say no to a new and a different lifestyle that awaits them

As for US, they get their spy back in return who will get a good whipping from all CIA officers for screwing their mission up.

At the end of the day, everyone in this episode wins.
 
this is a win-win deal for all parties

What the hell could the the family have achieved by continuing to live in their oppressive lives where they never had the luxery of electricity, food, clean water, health and education for their children?

Now, they will have the money (60m Rs) and the country (US) where their children can live a prosperous lives. Put yourself in the family situation. Go to their home and spend a week there. It would be craziness of epic proportions to say no to a new and a different lifestyle that awaits them

As for US, they get their spy back in return who will get a good whipping from all CIA officers for screwing their mission up.

At the end of the day, everyone in this episode wins.


Except the dead men. The Pakistani state also loses because the Americans know they can do this again and get away with it.

But yes I see your point - it's unfair to judge these families unless we know their true circumstances.
 
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Except the people who were killed. This isn't justice.

This is Sharia. If you are against this, you are against the teachings of Quran

Now either you choose one or another. We cannot change Islam to comfort all parties here. This verdict is in-line with Islamic law.
 
This is Sharia. If you are against this, you are against the teachings of Quran

Now either you choose one or another. We cannot change Islam to comfort all parties here. This verdict is in-line with Islamic law.

And since when was pakistani law totally complaint with Sharia? are all murder cases dealt in this way in pakistan? this is exactely how religion is miss used by the rich and powerful and debate is stifled.

This wasnt just any murder, this was a clear case of an agent of another country commiting cold blooded murder in broad daylight in front of countless witnesses.

this is a great message to RAW and other agencys. Tell me, had this been a RAW agent would the law even been applied in that case?
 
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And since when was pakistani law totally complaint with Sharia? are all murder cases dealt in this way in pakistan? this is exactely how religion is miss used by the rich and powerful and debate is stifled.

This wasnt just any murder, this was a clear case of an agent of another country commiting cold blooded murder in broad daylight in front of countless witnesses.

this is a great message to RAW and other agencys. Tell me, had this been a RAW agent would the law even been applied in that case?

Well we all know what has happened here, but was there any other option, what else do you think would have happened, there is a lot of difference in what we wanted to happened and what would have actually happened. And I will keep on repeating that in this case at least the families were compensated.
 
Hypakracy (noun)

When a Pakistani poster on a Pakistani forum blames the faults of Pakistan on Muslim law.
 
"Mate" ... religion and common law are two things that the rest of the world has very smartly learned to keep separate.

If they mix you get humiliating and unjust outcomes like this situation.

Im not sure you would prefer an 'enlightened' western model of justice. You may get Pakistani secret agents doing the same deeds that Raymond Davis did abroad. All in the name of those enlightened secularist ideals of 'promoting peace and stability in the region'!

But I guess if that happened it would just be a few people 'misusing' secularist ideals then wouldnt it?
 
He would have been let off anyway by one means or another. If everything else had failed there would have been presidential pardon or similar. American have a habbit of going scott free from Asia. Its nothing compared to Bhopal Gas Tragedy.

That was an accident unlike cold blooded murder by Davis.
 
its a misuse of the shariah..this is an enemy combatant or renegade who has been caught commiting an act of espionage..someone should read the Islamic ruling on dealing with such people..especially in times of war!
 
its a misuse of the shariah..this is an enemy combatant or renegade who has been caught commiting an act of espionage..someone should read the Islamic ruling on dealing with such people..especially in times of war!

I agree with this.

Blood money is fine in some case but not all cases.

One important part of any law including Islamic law is deferent. Blood money will not deter more American terrorists operating with the backing of their government not to kill Pakistani civilians, in fact it now gives them a type of licence to kill.

People who agree this is enough shouldn't moan if it happens again.
 
I agree with this.

Blood money is fine in some case but not all cases.

One important part of any law including Islamic law is deferent. Blood money will not deter more American terrorists operating with the backing of their government not to kill Pakistani civilians, in fact it now gives them a type of licence to kill.

People who agree this is enough shouldn't moan if it happens again.

I will reinstate

If the family accepted , the blood money is fine is this case. This is in-line with Quran.

The million dollar question is if this happen with the consent of family or not. If it did, than this case should now be sealed.
 
Why does not Pakistan act like a self dependent and rich country? Why begging? How do pakistanis treat beggars on the streets, that's how the rest of the world treat us since we are beggars
 
Law or no law, some kind of pressure must have been put upon the family....

But when we have :zardari in charge and he is obviously buddies with the US, so when US asked :zardari for help he was more than willing to bend over :107: and let the US do what they normally do when they ask him to bend over, they charge with their stick :131:

I have no proof of any of this, I'm assuming this on true rumours!
 
I will reinstate

If the family accepted , the blood money is fine is this case. This is in-line with Quran.

The million dollar question is if this happen with the consent of family or not. If it did, than this case should now be sealed.

Even if the family was pressured, there is nothing that we could have done, now lets hope the families get the full money rather than the red tape getting their share from it.
 
Law or no law, some kind of pressure must have been put upon the family....

But when we have :zardari in charge and he is obviously buddies with the US, so when US asked :zardari for help he was more than willing to bend over :107: and let the US do what they normally do when they ask him to bend over, they charge with their stick :131:

I have no proof of any of this, I'm assuming this on true rumours!

It is convenient to put all the blame on Zardari in this case but the fact is that the hypocrite clean shaven Mullahs i.e The Ameer-ul-Momineens of Punjab Nawaz and Shahbaaz also facilitated this deal.


Your's is a typical post supporting ...Bud acha, Budnaam Bura!
 
I will reinstate

If the family accepted , the blood money is fine is this case. This is in-line with Quran.

The million dollar question is if this happen with the consent of family or not. If it did, than this case should now be sealed.


lol. No need to reinstate as it's your view, doesn't make it correct. You are not an expert on the Sharia and neither am I but I do know deterrent is a major principle in Islamic criminal law.

Now you tell me how does this deter the next yank to spray bullets into a Pakisani citizen?

If Islamic law was in play these terrorists working for a terrorist government wouldn't be in the country in the first place.
 
It is convenient to put all the blame on Zardari in this case but the fact is that the hypocrite clean shaven Mullahs i.e The Ameer-ul-Momineens of Punjab Nawaz and Shahbaaz also facilitated this deal.


Your's is a typical post supporting ...Bud acha, Budnaam Bura!
You are right, but this is a typical view of most Pakistanis who are born and live abroad. I can't claim to know as much/more than you as you are their..... But that is still how I feel.
 
Why do people keep blaming the GoP only?

Isn't the Pakistan Army and the powerful ISI to blame as well?

There was tacit approval by the Pak Army and the ISI to secure his release.
 
Why do people keep blaming the GoP only?

Isn't the Pakistan Army and the powerful ISI to blame as well?

There was tacit approval by the Pak Army and the ISI to secure his release.

They are the mard-e-mujhaid and the savior of this "castle of Islam", How can they go wrong or sell their country like this?..Surely it would have been at the behest of traitor, Yahoodi/Indian agent i.e theSecular PPP?? :D
 
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They are the mard-e-mujhaid and the savior of this "castle of Islam", How can they go wrong or sell their country like this?..Surely it would have been at the behest of traitor, Yahoodi/Indian agent i.e theSecular PPP?? :D

PPP secular? Is that why they so appallingly left ST on his own after his stance on Aasia?
 
They are the mard-e-mujhaid and the savior of this "castle of Islam", How can they go wrong or sell their country like this?..Surely it would have been at the behest of traitor, Yahoodi/Indian agent i.e theSecular PPP?? :D

Zaid Hamid FTW :P

Btw Najam Sethi on Geo said that the deal happened with the approval of the ISI/Army, the Saudi King, the Imam of Kaaba and the Federal government.

Not to mention the double faced PML(N) who publicaly spoke against Davis but the CM was instrumental in securing his release.

The million dollar question now is that what can the Pakistan Army hoping to gain out of this?
 
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Well the reality is he was gonna walk anyway. It was a matter of time. So the family did what was best for them. If they rejected it you think he would have been hanged ? or would have spent a term in pakistani jail ? No chance, we are a commodity. We have been getting sold to the highest bidder for a very long time. Its just now that religion is used as a tool to justify it. Well not now but since the 80's.
All the kiddies and grown ups who get all crazy when religion is mentioned remember this as a lesson. People in power use whatever is necessary and available to get what they want so next time use your head instead of letting your emotions get the best of you.
 
How Ironic Raymond Davis Was Released on March 16.

2 years ago people were out on streets protesting for independent judiciary because they thought that might lead to them getting some Insaf at some level but exactly two years from that date Raymond Davis murderer of two pakistanis is freed by courts without even hearing Shumaila's last plea where she demanded blood for blood and not money. Peshawar court had already ruled against this law.

Here are shumaila's last words. I guess people have to come out on streets again to get their rights.
[utube]tTxsb3PFtus[/utube]
 
A couple of points I would like to make.

1. Those criticising the family for accepting the money need to do a reality check. It is they who have lost someone, they know their situation better then anyone, it is easier to say "I would have done this or that" but I suggest that we pray to Allah that we never have to be in such a situation.

2. I see nothing wrong with the family accepting blood money. However, that is all that it should be - Blood money. It should basically restrict the court from giving the defendant a death penalty however it does not mean that he should not get life imprisonment.

When you kill someone you commit two crimes. A crime against an individual and a crime against the State. Fair enough you avoid the death sentence by paying the family of the individual but then you still have to face the consequences of your acts.

I hope this does not become the precedent otherwise crimes like murder and rape would be on the rise and those with money and power will openly abuse this religious provision.

Bloody Money accepted = You cannot be sentenced to death if found guilty

If found guilty, Life imprisonment sentence should be handed out.
 
Court completely ignoring shumaila's last words is pathetic.

[utube]tTxsb3PFtus[/utube]

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere :king
 
Inshallah the ppl will come out in vast numbers tomorrow!

Imran Khan Zindabad!
 
guns dont kill, people do. And in this case the law didnt set anyone free, the family members did.
 
A couple of points I would like to make.

1. Those criticising the family for accepting the money need to do a reality check. It is they who have lost someone, they know their situation better then anyone, it is easier to say "I would have done this or that" but I suggest that we pray to Allah that we never have to be in such a situation.

2. I see nothing wrong with the family accepting blood money. However, that is all that it should be - Blood money. It should basically restrict the court from giving the defendant a death penalty however it does not mean that he should not get life imprisonment.

When you kill someone you commit two crimes. A crime against an individual and a crime against the State. Fair enough you avoid the death sentence by paying the family of the individual but then you still have to face the consequences of your acts.

I hope this does not become the precedent otherwise crimes like murder and rape would be on the rise and those with money and power will openly abuse this religious provision.

Bloody Money accepted = You cannot be sentenced to death if found guilty

If found guilty, Life imprisonment sentence should be handed out.
Your comments are very sane but i am afraid they are very naive when it comes to differenting between that years old tussle betweem the secular vs religious laws.


The "crime against state" law is a secular law and hence gets conveniently undermined by those ages old religious laws which frankly speaking have no regard for an entity like "nation state" to begin with .

Neverthless the crime against the state is a very reasonsble and logical law in such cases which ensures that the culprit doesn't get away with punishment (remember its not always capital in nature) after wasting a humam life which is simply priceless!
Sent from my Ideos using Tapatalk
 
Your comments are very sane but i am afraid they are very naive when it comes to differenting between that years old tussle betweem the secular vs religious laws.


The "crime against state" law is a secular law and hence gets conveniently undermined by those ages old religious laws which frankly speaking have no regard for an entity like "nation state" to begin with.

Neverthless the crime against the state is a very reasonsble and logical law in such cases which ensures that the culprit doesn't get away with punishment (remember its not always capital in nature) after wasting a humam life which is simply priceless!
Sent from my Ideos using Tapatalk

I am sure if relevant people work together then both religious law and State law can co-exist. (Wait till I become Law Minister in the near future lol)
 
I do question this law. Islamic law should call for stoning to death in this case.
 
Your comments are very sane but i am afraid they are very naive when it comes to differenting between that years old tussle betweem the secular vs religious laws.





The "crime against state" law is a secular law and hence gets conveniently undermined by those ages old religious laws which frankly speaking have no regard for an entity like "nation state" to begin with.



Neverthless the crime against the state is a very reasonsble and logical law in such cases which ensures that the culprit doesn't get away with punishment (remember its not always capital in nature) after wasting a humam life which is simply priceless!

Sent from my Ideos using Tapatalk



I am sure if relevant people work together then both religious law and State law can co-exist. (Wait till I become Law Minister in the near future lol)

Actually this is what pakistani constititionalists were hoping for when they tried to mix religion with what was mostly a secular constituton but we all saw as to how much of confused and adha/ teetar adha batair kind of state pakistan has become due to such flawed approach.

Sadly the bitter truth is that there will always be confusion as long as we will continue to mix religion up with state and its constitution.
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Davis may still be tried in the US ... quite ironic.

And as for all the Islamists out on the streets protesting about him .. well it's self pwnage for them ... their very own belief system sets him free .. go figure.


this mustbe the first islamic law u fully support since it has freed ur master:))
 
some people here have no knowledge of islam.so first of all they should have some knowledge first rather then just saying what comes comes to their mind.

Secondly,bloodmoney does exist in islam as there are many instances where it has been used.

Thirdly,those who are claiming this law should be changed or is barbaric....please keep these type of foolish cooments to your selves....you cant just give your own opinioins here.These are laws practiced by the prophet(S.A.W) would you say what he did was barbaric???
So please ppl refrain from saying such things..
 
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Court completely ignoring shumaila's last words is pathetic.

[utube]tTxsb3PFtus[/utube]

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere :king

Exactly... I'm just not getting this.
Imran Khan made a good point when he was on a programme today, saying that Aafia Siddiqui had been arrested for 'attempt to murder' and yet has not been released, and how Raymond Davis actually did commit a murder and he's been released. Yes I know he has been released because of the 'diyat' law.
 
Seriously after this whole episode of diyat now i can say it for sure that there is at least one non muslim caucasian westerner in this world who actually thinks of sharia as BLESSING IN DISGUISE :)))

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ascher, sometimes, i really value your opinions. Seriously. 95% of the time, you come across as a learned informed guy

But you seriously ought to stop this Islam bashing. There are serious sentiments that you hurt without realizing. You are free to live your life as an atheist, but does that give you the right to offend Muslims?

We can still agree upon most of the things together, inspite of our differences. Your religion, or lack of, is your private matter. But please refrain from posting jokes on the religion. It does not come across as cool. Don't do it
 
So if any of these news true then it clearly shows how much of poodle muslim governments have become...just so that they cna have blessing of Uncle sam for years to come.

Either the family was forced to agree in court (and possibly they won't get much in return) or the Pakistani tax money is used to pay the diyat.


http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/16/us-did-not-pay-for-daviss-release-in-pakistan-says-clinton.html

http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=12707

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011/03/110316_raymond_release_zz.shtml
 
ascher, sometimes, i really value your opinions. Seriously. 95% of the time, you come across as a learned informed guy

But you seriously ought to stop this Islam bashing. There are serious sentiments that you hurt without realizing. You are free to live your life as an atheist, but does that give you the right to offend Muslims?

We can still agree upon most of the things together, inspite of our differences. Your religion, or lack of, is your private matter. But please refrain from posting jokes on the religion. It does not come across as cool. Don't do it

Accept my apology if i hurt your feelings with my last non-serious posts but trust me just as my public sharing of such thoughts are hurting your feeling, our stubborn attitude of implementing a personal entity like religion on each and every individual irrespective of his cast, creed and beliefs is hurting our state.

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Accept my apology if i hurt your feelings with my last non-serious posts but trust me just as my public sharing of such thoughts are hurting your feeling, our stubborn attitude of implementing a personal entity like religion on each and every individual irrespective of his cast, creed and beliefs is hurting our state.

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Yes i agree

Religion should be seperated from state as soon as possible. Pakistan will struggle to survive otherwise

But we must realize that there is not a single man or party in Pakistan who can be considered a leader or an example. Pakistan just does not have any politicians like Jinnah today. There are none

Among the rest, i will rather pick Imran Khan than our so called 'secular' party PPP. Imran won't create a secular nation but perhaps down the line, a new leader will emerge who will take the nation towards that direction. Right now, Pakistan needs an honest and uncorruptable politician and there is none better than him
 
Finally a good decision made by the courts.

I dont know why people are so surprised here. I have been saying all along this time that this will happen :)
 
So if any of these news true then it clearly shows how much of poodle muslim governments have become...just so that they cna have blessing of Uncle sam for years to come.

Either the family was forced to agree in court (and possibly they won't get much in return) or the Pakistani tax money is used to pay the diyat.


http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/16/us-did-not-pay-for-daviss-release-in-pakistan-says-clinton.html

http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=12707

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011/03/110316_raymond_release_zz.shtml

U.S is simply denying it because if they accept it then not only will they have to face the complex ramifications of it by their own law but also the insult of using a non-humanitarian tribal law of diyat despite their tall claims of being a civilized society .

Rest assured that the bill has been paid by Kerrys and Logers of this world.

How much of tax do we pay as a nation anyway? :D
 
This is Sharia. If you are against this, you are against the teachings of Quran

Now either you choose one or another. We cannot change Islam to comfort all parties here. This verdict is in-line with Islamic law.

HOLD ON....there is a big IF....if the lives of the families were threatened or if they were pressured in anyway....then this law was completely misused
 
HOLD ON....there is a big IF....if the lives of the families were threatened or if they were pressured in anyway....then this law was completely misused

Yes Sir

I am of course assuming that they took the money and accepted the US citizenship

If not, then of course this law is a misuse

If yes, then i am afraid this law is in-line with Sharia. We need to move on from this
 
U.S is simply denying it because if they accept it then not only will they have to face the complex ramifications of it by their own law but also the insult of using a non-humanitarian tribal law of diyat despite their tall claims of being a civilized society .

Rest assured that the bill has been paid by Kerrys and Logers of this world.

How much of tax do we pay as a nation anyway? :D


haha...you mean thats better than what Americans do in the US...where a guy accidentally shooting his own log gets 2 years in Jail...while a guy driving Drunk and killing a pedestrian gets probation

some ppl love to live in denial
 
haha...you mean thats better than what Americans do in the US...where a guy accidentally shooting his own log gets 2 years in Jail...while a guy driving Drunk and killing a pedestrian gets probation

some ppl love to live in denial

At least both of them get some "semblance" of punishment which is certainly not the case... you know where .......:D

anyways, I am not an apologist of any stupid law or logic, be it secular or Religious :D

Two wrongs don't make a right anyway! ;)
 
Yes Sir

I am of course assuming that they took the money and accepted the US citizenship

If not, then of course this law is a misuse

If yes, then i am afraid this law is in-line with Sharia. We need to move on from this

Yes, but dont you see the clear misuse of the law for the agenda of a foreign country? What self respecting country and citizens take such things in stride?
 
Yes, but dont you see the clear misuse of the law for the agenda of a foreign country? What self respecting country and citizens take such things in stride?

dude its just a case of using the 'law' umbrella to get out of jail....nothing else

they couldn't find another way to they abuse a law thats probably not even allowed to be used here...bc this douchebag probably took a lot more lives and caused a lot more damage then just killing 2 lives and then paying blood money for them
 
dude its just a case of using the 'law' umbrella to get out of jail....nothing else

they couldn't find another way to they abuse a law thats probably not even allowed to be used here...bc this douchebag probably took a lot more lives and caused a lot more damage then just killing 2 lives and then paying blood money for them

Yes I agree with that. Hence my post was expressing surprise at a few people actually defending the act
 
I think most of the people commenting are living outside Pakistan and they are trying to tell someone what to do or not to get out of the country. This is crazy.
 
I think most of the people commenting are living outside Pakistan and they are trying to tell someone what to do or not to get out of the country. This is crazy.

Are you for real ? Most of us did not strike " deals " with any country to come here . How can you compare us with the victims' families ?
 
He was released because of a ridiculous law where a murderer can be pardoned by the family of the victim.

In other words the Americans paid them off.
 
this doesnt make sense.

Insaftak its not time t play games. live with peace and let live
 
He was released because of a ridiculous law where a murderer can be pardoned by the family of the victim.

In other words the Americans paid them off.

The family was clearly pressures.

I seen an interview on ARY where the mother of shumila stated this. She got arrested later :yk
 
our public is a joke. they'd rather come out and defend a murderer like qadri and would vote for zardari. No hope left.
 
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