Raymond Davis Case

I believe we have taken a very narrow approach to this Davis case.

Granted that he was charged with murder but he could easily be kept on the grounds that he was conducting espionage in Pakistan.

With the recent history of bombings in mosque and the news that foreign elements are instigating sectarian violence, he could have been kept in custody on these grounds as well.

Bottom line is that PPP wanted to send this man to the US, by hook or by crook.

(All these points and many more were made on Kashif Abbasi's talk show which I must say had three very knowledgeable people on its panel, one of them being Imran Khan)
 
The law is not pathetic. It's how it was implemented. If the families were forced, which they probably were, then it is wrong.
 
So if you disagree with this decision, you are insulting the quran, and hence you can be tried under the Blasphemy Law ! :yk




i am not saying disagreeing to this decision is against quran ,PUT you glass on and READ carefully ...There are different circumstances in which this law is permitted and ofcourse if the family is being threatened it does not apply

BUT if the family is happy with it (I doubt) then ofcourse whats wrong with it?
SO DON’T put your head in the sand please
 
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Can anyone supply me with a link where it says the family have been coerced into this? If they are satasfied there is nothing left to debate unless you want to debate the law itself.
 
Since the family had the option of Diyya am I to presume they were given the option of Qisas ;-)
 
Our government has given in to the US government once again . If they wanted to keep Raymond Daymond , really , then he had other charges on him as well like spying , shooting in public places , possessing a weapon .
 
Somethings confusing me...can someone with an understanding of the correct implementation of the law please clarify something for me...I presumed part of paying blood money (diyya) is that you accept liability right?...

In this case and others such as for instance Shell in Nigeria...they paid out $15.5 to but denied any wrongdoing...they stated that the payment is part of a "process of reconciliation". It doesnt appear here that Raymond Davis has accepted any liablity nor that he has done anything wrong. Is that not problematic?...

I'm not fully aware of exactly how Qisas and Diyya work in Pakistan but my general understanding correct me if I am wrong is that the victims are given the option of Qisas which essentially hasnt been provided here...Diyya is supposed to be one of two options and also requires the party paying it to accept responsibility which isnt the case with what the West calls out of court settlements...so the law isnt wrong but isnt it being misapplied...for it to be applied correctly shouldnt there be a retributive punishment if the family were to ask for Qisas...to only get one option kind of violates the law or have I missed something?...
 
Somethings confusing me...can someone with an understanding of the correct implementation of the law please clarify something for me...I presumed part of paying blood money (diyya) is that you accept liability right?...

In this case and others such as for instance Shell in Nigeria...they paid out $15.5 to but denied any wrongdoing...they stated that the payment is part of a "process of reconciliation". It doesnt appear here that Raymond Davis has accepted any liablity nor that he has done anything wrong. Is that not problematic?...

I'm not fully aware of exactly how Qisas and Diyya work in Pakistan but my general understanding correct me if I am wrong is that the victims are given the option of Qisas which essentially hasnt been provided here...Diyya is supposed to be one of two options and also requires the party paying it to accept responsibility which isnt the case with what the West calls out of court settlements...so the law isnt wrong but isnt it being misapplied...for it to be applied correctly shouldnt there be a retributive punishment if the family were to ask for Qisas...to only get one option kind of violates the law or have I missed something?...

I think you are right but the families may not have known this since:

Faizan Haider, a lawyer representing the family of one of those killed, told the BBC that the "blood money" deal was done without his knowledge and that he was in detention when it was made.

"I was not allowed to participate in the proceedings of the case... and could not see or approach my clients," Asad Manzoor Butt said.

"I and my associate were kept under forced detention for four hours.

"If my clients have indeed signed a blood money deal, then this has been done behind my back and I don't know anything about it."

As recently as three days ago, relatives told the BBC they wanted justice not compensation.

Aijaz Ahmad, a cousin of Faizan Haider, said that eight members of his immediate family have not been traceable since news of the deal emerged.

"There is a padlock on their door. Their phones are all switched off. If they have done this then they have acted dishonourably," he said.

The immediate family of the other man killed is also reported to have gone missing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12757244
 
I think you are right but the families may not have known this since:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12757244

Lol am I being naive by presuming that counsel should be present at these things :-)

This whole thing has really been a joke and now the attempts at scapegoating Islam...

If it really was down to Islam then not only would Raymond Davis have to accept his guilt but the state would have to accept the families desire for Qisas if they wanted it...obviously that option was never on the table so this law has been misapplied completely...

Blood money is an option in Islam not the ONLY option...

And if we were really thinking Islamically the guy should have been treated as a terrorist...
 
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Why was Raymond Davis not charged with espionage and terrorism. Our political and military leadership is in american pockets and they refuse to stand for men and women in shalwar kameez.
 
Lol am I being naive by presuming that counsel should be present at these things :-)

This whole thing has really been a joke and now the attempts at scapegoating Islam...

If it really was down to Islam then not only would Raymond Davis have to accept his guilt but the state would have to accept the families desire for Qisas if they wanted it...obviously that option was never on the table so this law has been misapplied completely...

Blood money is an option in Islam not the ONLY option...

Exactly bro, this whole episode has been a farce. Those people accepting this easily should look into it a bit more deeper.

Their lawyer was locked up, you couldn't make it up even for Pakistan. lol

Why was Raymond Davis not charged with espionage and terrorism. Our political and military leadership is in american pockets and they refuse to stand for men and women in shalwar kameez.

Too optomistic here brother, he was probably bought in whisky and cigarettes each night knowing he will be back in USA soon.
 
Dear idiots,

This law of blood money is mentioned in the Qur'an. So in actual fact, you are insulting Allah and His messenger.

I guess you should renew your imaan. That is, if you claim to be a muslim.

However, whether this law was justly applied in this case, is a different matter.

Amen brother, preah on...you tell these secular islamophobes how it ought to be...
 
Haha. Mullahs got their own medicine. Americans are very smart people.

And the state of Pakistan got screwed over by it's inability to prosecute an american spy openly engaged in espionage...and guess what true to form, secular islamophobes are jubilant...
 
And the state of Pakistan got screwed over by it's inability to prosecute an american spy openly engaged in espionage...and guess what true to form, secular islamophobes are jubilant...

oh the secular fascists are having a field day today. They have embraced Islam like nothing else after this event.
 
TODAY Judiciary has Died , may be it was DeaD anyway but people had the perception of being Alive

How can he be acquitted of everything ?

Ok (If families took money within law it fine)


What about his links to TTP etc?

The Fact is that Pakistan has lost its Ghairat and America has played smartly to loot it
 
oh the secular fascists are having a field day today. They have embraced Islam like nothing else after this event.

Many here are not criticising the law itself but its misapplication...

On what basis were the counsel of the families detained?...

Is it not the right for Qisas to be an option?...

And on what basis can you give Diyaa without accepting liablity...Davis was acquitted...

Do you not see the problems here?...

I for one am not criticising Islam but its application here seems to be infact a misapplication no?...
 
Fox News are appalled by the verdict lol...btw for those saying that Davis wasnt punished...he did apparently get a $250 fine for weapons possession ;-)

CIA Contractor Raymond Davis Is Free -- Now Is the Time to Reconsider Our Support for Pakistan's Government

By Christian Whiton
Published March 16, 2011

The return of a U.S. official illegally held by Pakistan is welcome news, but the overall incident is outrageous and the U.S. role in directly or indirectly providing a “blood money” payment is potentially scandalous. The Obama administration backed down to lawless behavior by a supposed U.S. ally, and in so doing, again made America look weak. This episode adds to a list of reasons to reconsider our support for Pakistan.

Raymond Davis was detained in Pakistan on January 27 after shooting two men in self-defense. Mr. Davis was accredited to the U.S. consulate in Lahore, which means he had diplomatic immunity. Under article 29 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, to which the U.S. and Pakistan are both party, it was unlawful for Pakistani officials to detain Mr. Davis, much less imprison him for over a month. He was released on Wednesday after the families of the dead reportedly were paid $2.3 million in so-called “blood money” compensation—effectively a bribe.

The fact that Mr. Davis was acknowledged after his arrest to be a contractor, or that he works for the Central Intelligence Agency, is irrelevant. All major U.S. missions have representatives of several agencies who perform various diplomatic and administrative functions. Whether they work for the State Department or another agency does not impact the diplomatic immunity to which they are entitled—and which is essential for effective communication between governments.

If a government dislikes the affiliation or conduct of a certain diplomat, its recourse is to expel that person. That is the arrangement Pakistan broke by effectively taking Mr. Davis hostage.

Pakistan’s conduct would be outrageous for any government. But what happened is even more appalling from a government that purports to be an ally and which has never had a problem holding its hand out for U.S. money. Assistance from U.S. taxpayers to Pakistan has increased to a sky-high average of $1.5 billion per year. The gall of asking for an extra $2.3 million payment on top of this is insulting.

We should take this opportunity to reconsider our support for Pakistan’s government.

Exactly what is that $1.5 billion a year supposed to buy us? Pakistan is far too corrupt for economic assistance to work, and pouring money into a corrupt system only encourages corruption. The Pakistani military still seems more seized with poking the eye of its nemesis, India, than defeating the violent Islamists within its own borders. Enthusiasts of Pakistan have long claimed progress in changing this, but nearly a decade after 9/11, evidence is lacking.
Pakistan still uses and supports terrorists as tools of national policy, as was again demonstrated vividly when Pakistani terrorists went on a killing spree in India in 2008. Anti-Americanism is pervasive and violent. Sending billions of U.S. dollars to Islamabad and paying bribes does nothing to help these matters.

Some would conclude that our largesse for Pakistan buys us access to neighboring Afghanistan, and the “privilege” of assaulting terrorists in areas within Pakistan’s borders but beyond its control. If the Pakistani government views these activities as being in its interest, they will continue without our massive handout of cash. If not, then Pakistan is not an ally at all, and the U.S. ought to seek alternatives to relying on an adversary. This could involve seeking more access points to Afghanistan from Central Asia.

Others believe that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons capability compels continued U.S. handouts. But a better defense against the use or proliferation of nuclear weapons would be cooperating with democratic India on missile defense, counter-force and counter-proliferation.

President Obama, who presumably signed off on the payment for Mr. Davis’s release, whether it was direct or indirect, has again displayed profound weakness to the world. If governments we believe to be allies and pay handsomely not only get away with treating us like this, but benefit financially from it, then what will our adversaries conclude? As with every major foreign policy of the Obama administration--and Mr. Obama’s conduct in every foreign crisis--those who wish us harm see only blue skies ahead.

Much damage has already been done from this episode, but Congress should act. Ideally, aid to Pakistan should be halted. But at a minimum, regardless of its source, the bribe paid for Mr. Davis’s release should be subtracted from this month’s check for Islamabad to send a message. Congress should also demand and release all information and communications related to this episode, including any direct or indirect U.S. role in the “blood money” payment. Congress should also pass a law prohibiting U.S. government bribery for the release of hostages, and debate alternatives to our reliance on Pakistan. Through this, Congress can at least mitigate the damage while shining light on Mr. Obama’s dangerous and negligent conduct in foreign affairs.

Christian Whiton is a former U.S. State Department senior adviser and is a principal at D.C International Advisory. He is a frequent contributor to Fox News Opinion.
 
This is a classic example of religion should be far away from politics. How could you justify his release. If you have money then just go killing spree coz u can buy their families off.
Religion is suppose to be clean, and politics is never clean nor it will ever be in millions of years. So if we are to consider religion clean then it has to cut tie with politics.
It's about time now that we don't let these power hunger clerics missuse the religion. The time of ruling the world in the name of religion is passed. It's about time that we as Islamic nation realize that religion is personal thing whether you believe in it or not and should not dictate your everyday life if you choose to not believe.
Just look at the state of Pakistan and think what if we lived in harmony and people did not kill in the name of religion. And In this case murders did not get away from punishment in the name of religion. Wake up people it's time to realize that religion is personal thing and every human is free to believe in whatever they want. So secular is the way forward.
 
This is a classic example of religion should be far away from politics. How could you justify his release. If you have money then just go killing spree coz u can buy their families off.
Religion is suppose to be clean, and politics is never clean nor it will ever be in millions of years. So if we are to consider religion clean then it has to cut tie with politics.
It's about time now that we don't let these power hunger clerics missuse the religion. The time of ruling the world in the name of religion is passed. It's about time that we as Islamic nation realize that religion is personal thing whether you believe in it or not and should not dictate your everyday life if you choose to not believe.
Just look at the state of Pakistan and think what if we lived in harmony and people did not kill in the name of religion. And In this case murders did not get away from punishment in the name of religion. Wake up people it's time to realize that religion is personal thing and every human is free to believe in whatever they want. So secular is the way forward.
+1...and just so you guys know, according to professor Raess of lums, this dubious law of diyat was implemented by the clean-shaven Ameer-ul-momineen of punjab Nawaz Shareef (much like how previously his god father Zia introduced the controversial blasphemy law to the constitution) and just like the blasphemy law has a history of being abused to settle personal scores, similarly, this law of diyat is being continously abused by the masses in those typical cases of honour killings and jaidaad where typically a father first encourages his son to kill his daughter and then pays the diyat to have him get out of jail

SO MUCH FOR THE OBSESSION WITH SHARIA IN PAKISTAN!

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Just saw on Geo that an inside source in the government said that the money was paid not by the US government or Raymond Davis but from the 'National Treasury'. This was done to preserve 'Qoum ki Ghairat'.
 
He was going to go free anyway, Pak officials just needed to find the right loophole. Does anyone seriously think Pakistan was going to punish an important American?
 
This was always going to happen. Pakistan got some good miles out of it and then it amounted to nothing from a legal point of veiw.
Blood money is a total sin in my view as it would mean a rich person can or could kill when they felt like it and then just pay blood money for the killings.
This was a total behind closed doors deal done for advatage to the pakistan government. The money involved between the governments is mind blowing, and i would not be surprised at all if the Pakistan goverment paid the blood money. Have you noticed both the American and Pakistan goverments have not said a single word about whom paid the money. America has said they did not pay the money, so who did!!!!!!

Am i wrong in thinking there is no such thing as blood money in the muslim religion, but it can only be paid to the family if it was an accident and it is to compensate for the money a family member would earn the family over there life?? Because if you kill someone in cold blood and you are wealthy and the money you pay the family of the person you killed, even when you admit you did wrong, that seems very wrong as a religious law.
 
^ But why shoot the Americans ? Who is compromising Pakistan's sovergnity ? Who has granted blanket access to air space and drone attacks to Americans ? Who is accepting aid from Americans ? I like the guy's passion though although he mentions being educated 3-4 times, not sure why.
 
^ But why shoot the Americans ? Who is compromising Pakistan's sovergnity ? Who has granted blanket access to air space and drone attacks to Americans ? Who is accepting aid from Americans ? I like the guy's passion though although he mentions being educated 3-4 times, not sure why.

Typical emotional outburst in a public gathering which has mostly nothing to do with facts and is just based on pure rhetoric and emotionalism.

Hoewever, in his case, since he is very cleverly mixing religious ideas like jehad with nationalism to provoke people therefore i am not really sure if he even has any regard for the state of pakistan deepdown inside or is just a "ummah lover" tbh
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^True. I am actually still in awe of the mastermind who solved this problem. It was a political masterstoke. I thought Davis will get away but not this easily.

"ronic isn’t it? The very Shariah law that has made US lawmakers jittery and angry ended up being Davis’ ticket out of here. Under Shariah law, relatives of the victims are able to pardon those accused of the crime in exchange for compensation. And that is what we are told took place here. When Prime Minister Gilani had announced that he will be asking the Ullema to help with the decision, did we know this was coming? Perhaps. And what a fantastic masterstroke it was – how will our religious parties argue this one? But then again we can’t underestimate their zeal either. But why did this transaction take place now? And why under such cloudy circumstances?

But then again when have we ever conducted anything in a ‘fair and transparent’ manner? The US says it did not pay, Pakistan isn’t saying who paid. The families were apparently paid but then why have they disappeared? The US insisted over and over again that Davis had diplomatic immunity – then why all the thank yous for ‘Pakistan’s generosity’ last night? If he was a diplomat, if he indeed did have immunity, blood money and generosity was not even needed.

Will the US ever contradict themselves over Davis’ immunity? Unlikely. For those of you who watched US Department of State Deputy Spokesman Mark Toner’s conference last night, you will see the sheer panic on America’s face. It was the ‘uh-oh’ expression over and over again as journalists grilled Toner over the immunity issue and the blood money rescue plan. The spokesman fumbled and mumbled. He cleared his throat a few times and politely stated that a) he is no legal expert and can not comment and b) they are thankful to Pakistan for its commitment to its relationship with the US.

Yeah that doesn’t tell us much other than the fact that the Pakistani authorities and the US will keep taking us for a ride over and over the next few weeks, we will be fed various lies, contradictions, pacifications and denials until the episode blows over. But the good part is, the strategic dialogue will be back on schedule and the aid money will keep rolling in.

As a new set of questions regarding immunity, Pakistan-US relationship, ISI-CIA partnership and Shariah law set into the minds of Pakistanis, we let go of the previously held questions which revolved around CIA operatives in Pakistan, what they did here and how they managed to get away with it. Because fact of the matter is, Pakistan is a playground. You can take anything and anyone for a ride – all we ask for in return is money. Lots and lots of money."

http://blog.dawn.com/2011/03/17/pakistans-alternative-tourism-industry/
 
And yet people support those in charge in Pakistan when they let a murder get away clean slate in daylight cause the big boys called.
 
Nawaz and Zardari facilitated my release - Raymond Davis

Pak Government paid 200 million rupees to the heirs of the two man whom I killed - Raymond Davis.
 
Nawaz and Zardari facilitated my release - Raymond Davis

Pak Government paid 200 million rupees to the heirs of the two man whom I killed - Raymond Davis.

ISI also had a parallel role to play in securing raymond davis release
 
And yet people support those in charge in Pakistan when they let a murder get away clean slate in daylight cause the big boys called.

Yeah, it's disgusting what the khakis and their lumber one intel agency can get away with because of the unquestioning public support they have. A damning indictment of our public's intelligence. The DG ISI, Ahmad Shuja Pasha, was providing live updates to the US ambassador from the court room. The same ISI that walks around in Pakistan like a bunch of thugs, disappearing, torturing and murdering anyone who questions their corruption and illegal activities, was reduced to a munshi when it came to a US citizen with the DG personally providing updates.
 
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