The 2016 U.S. Elections Thread

[Deosai]

This is a perfect illustration of what we call being a dheet haddi.

morelike partypooper trying to crash the trump party

 

[Stewie]

Damn.. I still can't believe trump will be the GOP Nominee

 

[Deosai]

Damn.. I still can't believe trump will be the GOP Nominee

populism always wins.

Studies show that people care more about how you say stuff than what you say; master marketer, businessman and now politician Trump knows this better than anybody.

 

[anuk]

well done to donald trump.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Even if Trump becomes President, i just dont see him living up to all his crazy ideas and promises. The US surely is too democratic a country and society to let him do and get away with what he wants.

 

[Markhor]

Well the silver lining is that Lucifer (as John Boehner called Ted Cruz this week) got his backside handed to him.

 

[Markhor]

Damn.. I still can't believe trump will be the GOP Nominee

This is the Republican Party's Frankenstein's Monster coming home to roost. They've built up the ideology behind the creature for decades, with Fox News playing the role of propagandists-in-chief.

They've encouraged a political culture on the right of anti-government extremism, dogmatism, scapegoating, swiftboating, poor bashing, sexism and the casual racism towards blacks, Muslims and Latinos hidden behind clever codewords and dog whistles like "anti PC". This is the Tea Party fantasy coming to fruition.

Trump has ditched the dogwhistles and simply blurts out the truth about Republican values. Its hilarious seeing Lindsay Graham going ballistic and the GOP tearing itself apart. Maybe a third election defeat will hammer into their skulls how out of touch they are and the need for them to return to sanity.

 

[Stewie]

This is the Republican Party's Frankenstein's Monster coming home to roost. They've built up the ideology behind the creature for decades, with Fox News playing the role of propagandists-in-chief.

They've encouraged a political culture on the right of anti-government extremism, dogmatism, scapegoating, swiftboating, poor bashing, sexism and the casual racism towards blacks, Muslims and Latinos hidden behind clever codewords and dog whistles like "anti PC". This is the Tea Party fantasy coming to fruition.

Trump has ditched the dogwhistles and simply blurts out the truth about Republican values. Its hilarious seeing Lindsay Graham going ballistic and the GOP tearing itself apart. Maybe a third election defeat will hammer into their skulls how out of touch they are and the need for them to return to sanity.

I am not so sure about it. They have really done a good job of creating anti establishment sentiment within the blue collar whitesof the nation to counter the Hispanic vote domination of the dems. That's the shortest route to the white house fr them and they took it laying the blame on the minorities and immigration.

 

[Stewie]

The blue collar whites are still the majority and they are primed now to beat the dems. Trump is going to go hard on Hillary and the skeletons in her closet. Libya and private email server will be mentioned trillion times a day from now on. Just watch!

 

[Robert]

Much of the GOP apparatus is not going to support Trump.

A flier is going around the GOP urging the Party to unite behind Trump, or die.

Newt Gingrich allegedly replied: "I choose death."

 

[Stewie]

Much of the GOP apparatus is not going to support Trump.

A flier is going around the GOP urging the Party to unite behind Trump, or die.

Newt Gingrich allegedly replied: "I choose death."

LOL.. really? Thats funny... I dont know if GOP wants to stay out of the white house for another 4 years. Maybe its a bitter pill they are willing to swallow. Just shows how disliked Trump is within the inner circle. I have a feeling they are hoping he loses and Paul Ryan can take on Hilary in 2020.

 

[Markhor]

I am not so sure about it. They have really done a good job of creating anti establishment sentiment within the blue collar whitesof the nation to counter the Hispanic vote domination of the dems. That's the shortest route to the white house fr them and they took it laying the blame on the minorities and immigration.

That's where I disagree, recent elections have shown getting blue collar whites ain't enough. Romney carried white voters by 20 points, and yet he still lost in 2012. Nonwhite voters constituted 28% of the electorate in 2012, but in 2016 about 38% of Americans are minorities.

Trump's toxic rhetoric has led to a surge in Latino voter registration especially in key states like Florida, Nevada and Colorado.

84% of nonwhite voters say they won’t vote for Trump and 70% of women view him unfavourable.

I'm sorry folks but Donald Trump CANNOT win with those numbers ! The only thing that'll save him is Hillary getting indicted.

 

[Markhor]

The blue collar whites are still the majority and they are primed now to beat the dems. Trump is going to go hard on Hillary and the skeletons in her closet. Libya and private email server will be mentioned trillion times a day from now on. Just watch!

The majority of US voters are women and minorities.

The latest polls indicate that Hillary Clinton could beat Trump among women by 40 points, an astounding margin without precedent in American political history. A gender gap half that size would deliver the White House to Clinton in a massive landslide and will lead to crushing Congressional losses for Republicans.

And as I mentioned, 84% of nonwhites will not vote for Trump. This is why the GOP establishment cannot bear to unite behind Trump, they realise they face an impending disaster.

If the GOP were sensible, they should've plumped for Kasich. He actually beats Hillary in the head to head polls.

 

[Markhor]

Donald Trump in 2006: I 'sort of hope' real estate market tanks

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/19/p...6-hopes-real-estate-market-crashes/index.html

(CNN)Two years before the housing market collapsed in 2008 and millions of Americans lost their homes, Donald Trump said he was hoping for a crash.

"I sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy," Trump said in a 2006 audiobook from Trump University, answering a question about "gloomy predictions that the real estate market is heading for a spectacular crash."

The U.S. housing bubble burst two years later, triggering the stock market crash of 2008 that plunged the U.S. economy into a deep recession, leaving millions of Americans unemployed.

Trump was speaking with Jon Ward, a marketing consultant who "masterminded all the initial education programs for Trump University," according to his website. The audiobook is available on iTunes.

"If there is a bubble burst, as they call it, you know you can make a lot of money," Trump said in the 2006 audio book, "How to Build a Fortune." "If you're in a good cash position -- which I'm in a good cash position today -- then people like me would go in and buy like crazy."

The 2008 crash destroyed $16 trillion of American households' net worth. It wiped out more than $2 trillion of Americans' retirement savings. People could no longer afford their medicines, or put their kids through school. People even committed suicide due to the financial pressures becoming too much to bear.

But Trump didn't give a damn about any of that, as long as he could make a ton of money on the back of millions of his countrymen suffering.

Trump voters get it through your skulls - this man doesn't give a DAMN about people like you.

 

[anuk]

Donald Trump in 2006: I 'sort of hope' real estate market tanks

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/19/p...6-hopes-real-estate-market-crashes/index.html



The 2008 crash destroyed $16 trillion of American households' net worth. It wiped out more than $2 trillion of Americans' retirement savings. People could no longer afford their medicines, or put their kids through school. People even committed suicide due to the financial pressures becoming too much to bear.

But Trump didn't give a damn about any of that, as long as he could make a ton of money on the back of millions of his countrymen suffering.

Trump voters get it through your skulls - this man doesn't give a DAMN about people like you.

Nothing wrong with what he said. He was a businessman at the time and wanted to maximize his wealth. It's the American dream, don't hate him cos he was smart about the bubble.

 

[Shayan]

Please keep it civil

 

[gattaca]

What choice people have ? The only sane one was John kasich. To choose between Hillary and trump it is tough choice for Americans. The popularity of trump wins over Hillary. But the only problem he keeps changing his mind.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=137535]anuk[/MENTION] I can't read your reply as its deleted. Anyway let's try again. Trump claims he foresaw the mortgage crisis coming and was warning everybody about it.

Yet back in 2006, he claimed it was a "great time to set up a mortgage company" ! Which he indeed did and goes down in history as just another failed Trump venture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ortgage-economy-2006-2008-crash-a6904796.html

“I think it’s a great time to start a mortgage company,” Trump told a CNBC interviewer in April 2006, adding that “the real estate market is going to be very strong for a long time to come.”

Within 18 months, as the experts’ worst fears began to pan out and home prices began to dip, Trump Mortgage closed, leaving some bills unpaid and a spotty sales record that fell short of Trump’s lofty predictions. Trump distanced himself from the firm’s demise, saying at the time that he had not been involved in the company’s management and that its executives had performed poorly.

Not only did he set Trump Mortgages up, but claimed it would be an industry leader !

Recently, as a candidate, Trump has presented himself as a truth teller who sounded an early alarm about the pending mortgage crisis. He told MSNBC last July that he had known the housing market “was a bubble that was waiting to explode.”

“I told a lot of people,” Trump said. “And I was right. You know, I’m pretty good at that stuff.”

Trump revealed no such concern when he launched the mortgage firm in 2006. He batted away skepticism from CNBC anchor Maria Bartiromo, who cited a 10 per cent decline in new-home sales in one recent month.

“I think the market is very good,” Trump responded. “We’re going to have a great company. It’s Trump Mortgage and trumpmortgage.com. And it’s going to be a terrific company,”one he predicted would quickly become an industry leader.

So can we stop talking about how savvy a businessman Trump is and talk about the fact he's a professional conman.

 

[Mahmood101]

Who's leading?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[godzilla]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/pres_general/

this is really interesting - polls suggest that if its trump vs clinton its neck and neck, but if its trump vs sanders its a landslide for sanders.

clinton vs sanders has clinton well ahead.

makes sense really, since clinton and trump are pretty much both extreme right wing options, what one has in stupidity is made up for the other's corruption. they also both better service corporate interests better of course.

i would guess it will be a coin toss between clinton and trump, and i reckon either will harken a very dark period for humanity.

 

[s28]

Sanders would be a good selection as even the 'real' Gordon Gekko acknowledged on CNBC

 

[godzilla]

it would be a good indicative precursor to a possible corbynistan.

 

[Anfield]

According to CBS and NYT Clinton has a 6 points lead over Trump. It has gone down from 10 to 6 still but still a considerable lead. According some other polls (maybe fox news?) trump is leading.

Trump is sending out quite a few personal and below the belt punches against Hillary.

Trump says he is just getting started and personal attacks would continue..

 

[The_KING]

Only in America could you have a bigot like Trump be in the running for presidency. Just goes to show that America is pseudo first world country. In reality, America is a third world crap hole.

 

[Indiafan]

Sanders would be a good selection as even the 'real' Gordon Gekko acknowledged on CNBC

He is losing by one of the biggest margins in democratic primaries. How can anyone even dream he will be selected? Hillary was losing only by 80 delegates against Obama at similar period and she still lost heavily

 

[Indiafan]

According to CBS and NYT Clinton has a 6 points lead over Trump. It has gone down from 10 to 6 still but still a considerable lead. According some other polls (maybe fox news?) trump is leading.

Trump is sending out quite a few personal and below the belt punches. He has been saying Pres Bill Clinton used to r*pe girls in his oval office and Hillary helped her.

Trump says he is just getting started and personal attacks would continue..

General polls at this time means nothing when Hillary is just concentrating on primaries. Clinton is going to win easily.

 

[James]

i would guess it will be a coin toss between clinton and trump, and i reckon either will harken a very dark period for humanity.

I'm finding it to be a little bit like waiting for an enormous species-threatening meteor to impact the Earth, with the only remaining question being whether it will hit on land or water.

 

[hussain.r97]

Both parties may end up divided on election day. Republicans are already divided, but a large number of Sanders supporters won't vote for Clinton either.

A Clinton vs Trump election would be an election between the least popular candidates in US election history. Sadly people will end up voting for the lesser evil (or not voting at all) rather than voting someone they truly believe in.

 

[Slog]

The majority of US voters are women and minorities.

The latest polls indicate that Hillary Clinton could beat Trump among women by 40 points, an astounding margin without precedent in American political history. A gender gap half that size would deliver the White House to Clinton in a massive landslide and will lead to crushing Congressional losses for Republicans.

And as I mentioned, 84% of nonwhites will not vote for Trump. This is why the GOP establishment cannot bear to unite behind Trump, they realise they face an impending disaster.

If the GOP were sensible, they should've plumped for Kasich. He actually beats Hillary in the head to head polls.

Democracy is about will of the people

If the GOP had made a more direct effort conspiracy theorists would be having a field day.

 

[Indiafan]

Both parties may end up divided on election day. Republicans are already divided, but a large number of Sanders supporters won't vote for Clinton either.

Again complete fiction. At least 40% Clinton supporters said they wont vote for Obama. But people did. Only 20% Sanders supporters say this according to poll, most will still vote democrat

 

[Indiafan]

i would guess it will be a coin toss between clinton and trump, and i reckon either will harken a very dark period for humanity.

Lol, first - Why do you think Clinton has any such designs? Her agenda aligns with Obama for the larger part

And secondly, being the President of the US does not mean supreme dictator of the world. Heck, Obama was more popular than Clinton yet had so much trouble getting anything he wanted past the congress. Nothing will change, the President simply doesn't have that kind of power

 

[Slog]

Again complete fiction. At least 40% Clinton supporters said they wont vote for Obama. But people did. Only 20% Sanders supporters say this according to poll, most will still vote democrat

dynamics are different though

Many Sanders supporters are 'anti establishment, kick-out-politicians' type and would be more amenable to Trump than Clinton.

Many of these are from 'occupy Wall Street' movements as well so it will be hard to imagine them switching over to Clinton

 

[hussain.r97]

Again complete fiction. At least 40% Clinton supporters said they wont vote for Obama. But people did. Only 20% Sanders supporters say this according to poll, most will still vote democrat

This is a different group of people to last time though. The dynamics of this millennial situation is new, and it is uncharted territory when it comes to elections.

 

[hussain.r97]

dynamics are different though

Many Sanders supporters are 'anti establishment, kick-out-politicians' type and would be more amenable to Trump than Clinton.

Many of these are from 'occupy Wall Street' movements as well so it will be hard to imagine them switching over to Clinton

Exactly. The main Bernie supporters are an extremely passionate bunch, and it's hard to see them voting for Hillary. Many will stay home, a few will vote Trump, and a few will even vote Green. There's even talk out there of 'writing in' Bernie' on the ballot during the general election.

Personally if I was part of this election, I would find it hard voting for either of Trump or Hillary.

 

[s28]

Incredible to find that nobody on this thread mentions either 'FBI' or 'Impeach'

There is an ongoing FBI investigation into Clinton's email and other scandals.

If/when she is charged no reason why Democrat super-delegates taking into account Hillary's already poor polling versus Trump decide at the Convention to switch to Sanders.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Trump for President.

 

[godzilla]

I'm finding it to be a little bit like waiting for an enormous species-threatening meteor to impact the Earth, with the only remaining question being whether it will hit on land or water.

couldnt have said it better!

 

[godzilla]

Lol, first - Why do you think Clinton has any such designs? Her agenda aligns with Obama for the larger part

And secondly, being the President of the US does not mean supreme dictator of the world. Heck, Obama was more popular than Clinton yet had so much trouble getting anything he wanted past the congress. Nothing will change, the President simply doesn't have that kind of power

well its all rank speculation for one, we are at a distance after all. but the corruption of the clinton foundation, the banking and corporate hand shakes, backing and deals, the hawkish foreign policy committments and the data leak, lies and corruption with respect to het private server all are very worrying dark clouds overhead.

agree that whoever it is simply a figure head on a monster that does what it wants anyway and makes a mockery of the concept of democracy. that said however, the figurehead if public in commitment can find itself held accountable - so there are scenarios in which it momentarily becomes more than a figurehead.

 

[hussain.r97]

Incredible to find that nobody on this thread mentions either 'FBI' or 'Impeach'

There is an ongoing FBI investigation into Clinton's email and other scandals.

If/when she is charged no reason why Democrat super-delegates taking into account Hillary's already poor polling versus Trump decide at the Convention to switch to Sanders.

I really hope she gets indicted, it will pave the way for Bernie to win the whole thing. Can't believe that someone being investigated by the FBI (that too with overwhelming evidence against her) is winning the democratic nomination.

 

[gattaca]

I really hope she gets indicted, it will pave the way for Bernie to win the whole thing. Can't believe that someone being investigated by the FBI (that too with overwhelming evidence against her) is winning the democratic nomination.

Lol Did you even look at Bernie plans for every thing ? US will be socialist country than anything. To provide free education,health care. Someone has to pay the bills it will the hard working middle class the business folks never pay taxes anyway.

 

[hussain.r97]

Lol Did you even look at Bernie plans for every thing ? US will be socialist country than anything. To provide free education,health care. Someone has to pay the bills it will the hard working middle class the business folks never pay taxes anyway.

If every major western nation in the world can provide free healthcare, affordable education, and all these benefits, why can't the USA? He's outlined his plan, so I think he deserves a chance to do what he can for the people.

 

[s28]

And Britain built the NHS and Education systems in the immediate aftermath of the 2nd World War when we were bankrupt whilst Germany built their economy having been defeated in the 2nd World War !

This argument about we can't afford it is b.s.
We can't afford not to invest in the future and that means investing in physical and human capital.

 

[Markhor]

Trump thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax designed to damage American manufacturing...yet wants to build a wall on his Irish golf resort to protect against rising sea levels.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...limate-change-is-a-hoax-but-tries-to-protect/

Trump nailing that hypocrisy.

 

[hussain.r97]

Trump thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax designed to damage American manufacturing...yet wants to build a wall on his Irish golf resort to protect against rising sea levels.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...limate-change-is-a-hoax-but-tries-to-protect/

Trump nailing that hypocrisy.

Not a fan of Trump, but I don't see how that's hypocrisy. He said climate change caused by humans is a chinese hoax, and also went on to say temperatures rise and fall naturally (alongside see levels).

 

[Markhor]

Not a fan of Trump, but I don't see how that's hypocrisy. He said climate change caused by humans is a chinese hoax, and also went on to say temperatures rise and fall naturally (alongside see levels).

It is hypocrisy if you read the application to build the sea wall from Trump's company to the Irish government. It SPECIFICALLY mentions concerns over rising sea levels due to global warming.

“If the predictions of an increase in sea level rise as a result of global warming prove correct, however, it is likely that there will be a corresponding increase in coastal erosion rates not just in Doughmore Bay but around much of the coastline of Ireland,” the application notes.

It discredits his own personal stance. Trump's repeatedly called global warming "BS" and an "expensive hoax" - despite the fact global temperatures have reached a record high for the 12th consecutive month - the longest streak ever recorded !

Trump's ignorance on this incredibly serious and threatening issue alone is enough to disqualify him for the Presidency.

 

[godzilla]

i think this sums it all up quite succinctly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8TSkG1PYyo

 

[godzilla]

And Britain built the NHS and Education systems in the immediate aftermath of the 2nd World War when we were bankrupt whilst Germany built their economy having been defeated in the 2nd World War !

This argument about we can't afford it is b.s.
We can't afford not to invest in the future and that means investing in physical and human capital.

i think that argument is bs. theres only so much you can borrow from the future. thats not investing in it, its debilitating it. greece is one of many examples. pakistan another. of course affordability matters. to think that the future is simply a function of how much money you throw at human (or physical) capital is meaninglessly simplistic. wont help if that human capital is too lazy or entitled to do anything about it for example.

 

[Spookiewookie]

If every major western nation in the world can provide free healthcare, affordable education, and all these benefits, why can't the USA? He's outlined his plan, so I think he deserves a chance to do what he can for the people.

how exactly is it free when taxpayers like me are paying over 50% of our income to fund these public services........

the NHS is however free to the health tourists....

 

[endymion248]

how exactly is it free when taxpayers like me are paying over 50% of our income to fund these public services........

the NHS is however free to the health tourists....

It's half free.

 

[endymion248]

Cuba has universal healthcare, similar life expectancy to the US yet spends 20x less on healthcare. That's gotta sting.

 

[endymion248]

Of course, people will argue that the money in the US is spent by private people while the money in other countries is spent by government which is so expensive that the government needs borrowing (thus not sustainable).

However, the US government itself spends a significant amount of money on healthcare through medicaid, obamacare etc...

How can anyone complain about NHS being too expensive for the citizens?

I got to say, from reading these forums, a lot of british people come across as deeply irrational about issues like healthcare, european union, immigration etc...

 

[Spookiewookie]

Universal isn't the same as Free - lets get the semantics right.

Regarding the NHS - it is expensive for the service we receive and the reason for that is the extortionate amount of inefficiency, wastage and corruption in the system - why because it's all on the house attitude....

All in all it's better to have it than not to - but we can and should do better - the benchmark are the services (not just health) in the scandinavian countries.

 

[hussain.r97]

how exactly is it free when taxpayers like me are paying over 50% of our income to fund these public services........

the NHS is however free to the health tourists....

US taxes aren't as low as we think. My uncle visited from Texas, and the taxes there are almost the same as the taxes we pay in New Zealand. We get a lot more benefits + healthcare is covered by the taxes.

Basically they pay taxes + pay for health insurance which adds up to way more than what we pay here.

 

[s28]

Spot on

 

[Spookiewookie]

US taxes aren't as low as we think. My uncle visited from Texas, and the taxes there are almost the same as the taxes we pay in New Zealand. We get a lot more benefits + healthcare is covered by the taxes.

Basically they pay taxes + pay for health insurance which adds up to way more than what we pay here.

much lower than Europe - especially when compared to States like Texas.

 

[Spookiewookie]

'Euphoric about Trump': meet the Muslim American backing Donald all the way

Click Here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/6c8285b3-e19a-4997-be90-c768e38c03bd

 

[James]

Trump is now officially the GOP nominee.

 

[hussain.r97]

Trump to possibly debate Sanders ahead of the California primary! This is going to be epic!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN0YH1ST

 

[Syed1]

Trump is now officially the GOP nominee.

The beginning of the end..

 

[James]

The beginning of the end..

It's pretty impressive that he started as a dark horse and then simply swept away a massive 16 other candidates, whilst Hillary despite being the clear favourite since before the beginning of voting is still struggling to shake off her main rival.

 

[Robert]

Spot on

Well, you have to ask why we allowed that to happen.

It's because we were sick of the trade unions screwing up industrial production and building cars that didn't work, sick of rampant inflation, sick of power cuts, sick of our terrible public rail network, and of rubbish piling up in the streets. So we turned to Thatcher and neoliberalism.

 

[Robert]

It's pretty impressive that he started as a dark horse and then simply swept away a massive 16 other candidates, whilst Hillary despite being the clear favourite since before the beginning of voting is still struggling to shake off her main rival.

Trump is ahead of Clinton in the polls.

It's pretty awful that the USA can only field two such poor candidates.

 

[anuk]

It's pretty impressive that he started as a dark horse and then simply swept away a massive 16 other candidates, whilst Hillary despite being the clear favourite since before the beginning of voting is still struggling to shake off her main rival.

she mathematically won it ages ago afaik? it's just that bernie is just out there fighting for his agenda.

 

[James]

she mathematically won it ages ago afaik? it's just that bernie is just out there fighting for his agenda.

The difference is that sustained, strong and genuine leadership from Hillary would have blown a glorified Occupy Wall Street protester like Sanders away months ago. Even now the loony left of Facebook is still sharing Bernie videos every day and proclaiming him as the scribe of the Third Testament. This is and will continue to chip away at Clinton's credibility as the Democratic candidate. A woman of her dexterity and charisma should have dispensed with someone like Sanders very quickly.

When you compare Hillary's messy, tarnished tiptoe over the finishing line to Trump's blitzkrieg of a huge pool of equally disparate candidates, it becomes very clear that Trump has every commonly documented personality trait of 'a successful person': he is using all of his networking & business experience to maximum effectiveness - he is extremely good at 'winning friends and influencing people'.

All of which makes the possibility that The Donald will get the top job more and more real, and simultaneously the sheer terror of that prospect grows for the rest of us as well.

 

[hussain.r97]

Trump is ahead of Clinton in the polls.

It's pretty awful that the USA can only field two such poor candidates.

Clinton is a horrible candidate. She's only winning because she's part of the democratic establishment.

It's amazing how Bernie has done so far even though he was a nobody to most people at the beginning of last year, and is fighting against the entire democratic establishment. Winning 46% of the pledged delegates so far is a huge achievement

I really hope that we somehow end up seeing a Bernie vs Trump match up. It would truly be a contest of ideologies people there actually believe in and people wouldn't be voting against an ideology or for the lesser evil, they would be voting for what they believe, which is what a democracy is all about.

 

[hussain.r97]

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2071

According to U.S. Law, Hillary Clinton belongs in jail and is ineligible from holding office

 

[Markhor]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662

Donald Trump claims a net worth of more than $10 billion and an income of $557 million. But he appears to get there only by overvaluing properties and ignoring his expenses.

POLITICO spoke with more than a dozen financial experts and Trump’s fellow multimillionaires about the presumptive Republican nominee’s latest financial statement. Their conclusion: The real estate magnate’s bottom line — what he actually puts in his own pocket — could be much lower than he suggests. Some financial analysts said this, and a very low tax rate, is why Trump won’t release his tax returns.

“I know Donald; I’ve known him a long time, and it gets under his skin if you start writing about the reasons he won’t disclose his returns,” said one prominent hedge fund manager who declined to be identified by name so as not to draw Trump’s ire. “You would see that he doesn’t have the money that he claims to have and he’s not paying much of anything in taxes.”

Trump is certainly wealthy. But in a campaign where the New Yorker has portrayed himself as the biggest, the richest, the classiest and the best at everything, disclosing that he is less rich than he lets on could be damaging. And it is a line of attack Democrats are already using and hope to pound away on until November.

The case against Trump’s accounting of his wealth: His businesses apparently generate a lot of revenue but may not put much cash in his pocket; he assigns himself a net worth that is impossible to verify and may be based in part on fantasy; and he is selling assets and increasing debt in ways that suggest a man scrambling for ready cash.

In response to a list of questions for this story, Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks emailed: “The report speaks for itself.” If it does, the 104-page report — which Trump filed with the Federal Election Commission on May 17 — does not speak clearly.

The financial disclosure form showed Trump adding fresh debt of at least $50 million, though a campaign news release said Trump is using increased revenue to reduce his debt, which is now at least $315 million and possibly more than $500 million. The disclosure also suggests that Trump sold fund assets to raise as much as $7 million in cash and individual securities to raise up to $9 million more.

The apparent increase in debt and securities sales raises questions about the amount of cash Trump has on hand.

“If he is swimming in so much cash for all his holdings, why is he selling this stuff to raise cash?” asked another ultra-high-net-worth individual who also reviewed the filings and declined to be identified by name to avoid Trump’s wrath.

Trump’s tax returns could clarify a great deal about his actual income. But Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, said in an interview with The Huffington Post last week that he would be “surprised” if Trump ever releases the returns, which is not required but which every major presidential candidate has done since 1976.

Trump attributes the refusal to ongoing audits. But there is no prohibition on individuals releasing returns under scrutiny by the IRS. The refusal has led to rampant speculation among Wall Street executives who have done deals with Trump that his returns would show surprisingly low income.

There is no dispute that Trump owns many valuable properties that contribute to a high net worth. But there is a great deal of dispute about how high that worth actually is. The financial disclosure form lists assets worth at least $1.5 billion, but the ranges included are far too wide for an observer to determine anything close to a precise figure.

“Trump has a tendency to value his brand at a very high amount, but these are usually intangible valuations just pulled out of thin air,” said Steve Stanganelli, a certified financial planner at Clear View Wealth Advisors. “And he appears to be reporting gross revenue. There is a huge difference between that and net income. What really matters is what you put in the bank.”

Estimates of Trump’s net worth range from a low of $150 million to $250 million asserted by journalist Timothy O’Brien in a 2005 book that earned him a libel lawsuit from Trump that was eventually dismissed. O’Brien saw Trump’s tax returns as part of the discovery in that suit but the records were sealed by the court and O’Brien is not allowed to discuss them in any detail.

One revelation made public as part of the suit was that Trump’s valuation of himself and his empire fluctuates based on his own “feelings.” Fortune magazine earlier this month estimated Trump’s net worth at $3.92 billion based on the latest financial disclosure.

A big chunk of Trump’s net worth figure comes from high valuations he bestows on his golf course properties. Trump values nine of his golf properties at “over $50 million” for a total of at least $450 million. He values at least four more at up to $25 million and a fifth at up to $50 million. But golf course valuation experts say there is nothing in the report to support these lofty figures.

“Unless we really know what the income and expenses for the clubs are, it’s impossible to even guess at what the value would be,” said Larry Hirsh, a founder of the Society of Golf Appraisers and the president of Golf Property Analysts. “He’s a classic example of a guy that, when he wants to get a loan or tell you how wealthy he is, he’ll tell you something is worth a bazillion dollars. But when he wants to get taxes reduced, he’ll tell you it’s worth $2.95.”

Total and utter fraud.

 

[gattaca]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662



Total and utter fraud.

May be to choose between him and Hillary. People probably choose him because of Hillary's History.

 

[s28]

CNN Ignored DNC's Request To Not Count Superdelegates Before They Vote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BO90pXeoMao" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[James]

Clinton has won.

To prove that he is a man of integrity and class (which I think he probably is), Sanders should now officially step aside in the race.

 

[confused_amoeba]

Clinton has won.

To prove that he is a man of integrity and class (which I think he probably is), Sanders should now officially step aside in the race.

Not sure what is going inside Uncle Bernie's mind. The political revolution never happened, get over it. Just endorse Hillary, move on and work towards making Trump unelectable.

Per reports Obama is itching to enter the campaign and go all out against Trump. His roast of Trump at a previous White House correspondents dinner must go down in history as the most clever yet scathing attack on Trump.

 

[hussain.r97]

The way the AP announced Hillary is the presumptive nominee a day before the primaries is absolutely disgusting. I don't even know why these media outlets include super-delegates in their count when they haven't even voted yet! Yesterday's announcement obviously had an effect on today's primaries.

Anyway, what's done is done. I personally don't see this as a loss for Bernie Sanders, in fact, he's a winner. Even if he didn't clinch this nomination he's made sure that the democratic agenda will have some of his policies on it, he's brought millions of millennials into the fold, and he has raised his voice on some very important issues. Bernie will go down in history as the man who brought socialism into a positive light in the USA, and eventually, the US will adopt Bernie's policies. This is a given looking at the overwhelming support he receives from under 45s.

 

[s28]

Hilary could still be impeached
Superdelegates could still switch support
Staying in allows Sanders to push progressive agenda and change Democrat platform

Makes sense to stay in the race. Sanders has taken on Democrat Esrablishment just as Corbyn did with Labour. There is genuine demand for new progressive anti-austerity politics. If Dem establishment don't accept that fact he should run as an Independent.

 

[hussain.r97]

Hilary could still be impeached
Superdelegates could still switch support
Staying in allows Sanders to push progressive agenda and change Democrat platform

Makes sense to stay in the race. Sanders has taken on Democrat Esrablishment just as Corbyn did with Labour. There is genuine demand for new progressive anti-austerity politics. If Dem establishment don't accept that fact he should run as an Independent.

Agreed. Here's hoping Clinton get's indicted, Trump as president is the last thing we want...

 

[confused_amoeba]

The way the AP announced Hillary is the presumptive nominee a day before the primaries is absolutely disgusting. I don't even know why these media outlets include super-delegates in their count when they haven't even voted yet! Yesterday's announcement obviously had an effect on today's primaries.

Anyway, what's done is done. I personally don't see this as a loss for Bernie Sanders, in fact, he's a winner. Even if he didn't clinch this nomination he's made sure that the democratic agenda will have some of his policies on it, he's brought millions of millennials into the fold, and he has raised his voice on some very important issues. Bernie will go down in history as the man who brought socialism into a positive light in the USA, and eventually, the US will adopt Bernie's policies. This is a given looking at the overwhelming support he receives from under 45s.

Suck it up buddy. Hillary has more pledged delegates than Bernie even before yesterdays results so why would the super delegates vote for him. Bernie's insistence on staying in the race is looking foolish and idiotic at this point. Also, keep dreaming about Hillary getting indicted under a democratic President's rule who is supporting her. Not going to happen.

Speaking of Obama.Looks like Uncle Bernie has been called to the Principal's office on Thursday. Expect him to endorse Hillary after that meeting. If not, than he is even a bigger fool than anyone expected.

 

[hussain.r97]

Suck it up buddy. Hillary has more pledged delegates than Bernie even before yesterdays results so why would the super delegates vote for him. Bernie's insistence on staying in the race is looking foolish and idiotic at this point. Also, keep dreaming about Hillary getting indicted under a democratic President's rule who is supporting her. Not going to happen.

Speaking of Obama.Looks like Uncle Bernie has been called to the Principal's office on Thursday. Expect him to endorse Hillary after that meeting. If not, than he is even a bigger fool than anyone expected.

I know nothing is going to happen. It pisses me off how Hillary has used backhanded and unethical ways to reach this nomination. I concede that Bernie has lost, and if you read the second part of my original post properly, you would know that.

 

[Markhor]

The political revolution never happened, get over it.

A self-declared socialist getting 46% of the delegates in a country that is the heartland of global capitalism, despite being 60% behind Hillary Clinton in the national polling last year, with next to nothing in terms of fundraising, media support or name recognition, and with all the establishment against him - that my friend is a political revolution.

 

[hussain.r97]

A self-declared socialist getting 46% of the delegates in a country that is the heartland of global capitalism, despite being 60% behind Hillary Clinton in the national polling last year, with next to nothing in terms of fundraising, media support or name recognition, and with all the establishment against him - that my friend is a political revolution.

Thank you!

And the revolution hasn't ended, it has only just begun.

 

[James]

Clinton has reached a total number that's less than 200 delegates away from securing the nomination anyway, regardless of what the 600-ish superdelegates decide to do in July; and the vast majority of the superdelegates seem to be backing her.

Also agree with the point that Obama will now find a method to privately block any further FBI investigations into Hillary. Technically he could pardon any misdemeanour that he wanted up until early January as well. If it was one of your best mates, your long-time colleague and your ideal successor, anyone else would be likely to do the same - effectively, protect them.

In short, the nomination has been decided.

(Fair play to Sanders for a gargantuan 2nd-placed effort however!)

 

[s28]

What happens if the investigation drags through the election process and becomes a major issue between Trump and Clinton ?

What if the decision comes after Trump's inauguration ?

Superdelegates need to take that into account. Clinton already behind Trump in GE polling. If Trump goes after her or there is an economic crash in the US (very likely) it would damage the Democrat Establishment and damage Obama and Clinton. Superdelegates need to take into account Sanders beats Trump in GE polling.

So the maths is take a risk on potential liabiity Clinton who only won amongst the Democrat Party selectorate vs Sanders who has shown ability to reach outside Democratic selectorate and win with floaters/Independents.