The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[KingKhanWC]

The S400 is vulnerable against a foe that has an integrated network based air force. Even then its dangerous. Most experts seem to feel it is better to hit it with long range Cruise missiles like the Russians have been doing against the Ukrainians s300. Once its knocked out by stand off missiles you can make some in roads..but it is deadly..and a headache. Plus the Russians have their own version not the one they export..and you have to train against it..not an easy task. They have an integrated homogonous network..everything links together..the uk and us will never send any top of the line aircraft..imagine the headlines of a f35 gets smoked by an s400?

The effect on the share price would be crazy. Just remember lockheed Martin were slapping each others backsides when they heard we shot down ans su30..at best they may send some f16's from Poland or Norway but it will take ages..

My theory is they know its over...they are waiting for the eventual collapse of the final defence line and long retreat of the ukrops to western Ukraine. This will be portrayed as a heroic event and then negotiations will begin..a ceasefire is inevitable its just a matter of when..

On the other hand the Russians could completely screw it up get bogged down and then more nato equipment starts arriving with newly trained troops..can't see it but anything is possible..

Appreciate it thanks !

Imo if an F35 is downed by S400 western media after being instructed by MOD will suggest this is a lie. The amount lies and false propaganda by west in this war has never seen in history.

 

[sweep_shot]

Appreciate it thanks !

Imo if an F35 is downed by S400 western media after being instructed by MOD will suggest this is a lie. The amount lies and false propaganda by west in this war has never seen in history.

Was there ever a time when they said the truth?

9/11, WMD in Iraq, Russia etc.

It is remarkable that many people blindly fall for it.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is simply no point talking with you further. You deliberately misconstrue most points, and your understanding of history is lacking. So onto Ignore you go.

Good. Run away like the Yankees did in Vietnam.

I also don't want to engage with someone who supported American invasion of Iraq. I mean how naive can someone be?

Again, this is your post (just for the record): http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Quran-burning-protest&p=11743837#post11743837.

You can use pretty English words to sugarcoat things but that post is clear about your stances.

They didn't lose in Vietnam. They won every major battle. But their troops were hamstrung by the rules of engagement, which centred on NVA and Viet Cong killed instead of taking and holding territory. Eventually the peaceniks at home got tired of seeing more and more of their lads come home in boxes, and the war wound down.

As for Afghanistan, the forty nations of ISAF could have controlled that nation forever, but gave it up as a bad job.

LOL at the excuse.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Was there ever a time when they said the truth?

9/11, WMD in Iraq, Russia etc.

It is remarkable that many people blindly fall for it.

West lied about Iraq, Syria, Libya but now some people think they are telling the truth now about Ukraine? lol.

Deception is their best skill.

 

[Robert]

UK has only 100 or so fighter jets which ready to go. If you want Germany and France to protect UK first then sure it would be more difficult but my example is if its only Russia V UK in a conventional war. Once the Russian troops land the British army are not capable of resisting. What may and will help them is the ordinary folk esp the ethnic minorities such as the Muslims. It would be ironic blacks and browns fighting against Russia for Ukraine when most Ukrainians are racist clowns.

If the Russians cannot defeat Ukrainian part-timers equipped with fifty year old tanks, there is no way they could defeat British Army professionals armed with modern vehicles.

But it will never happen because the NATO doctrine of collective defence will apply. The Yanks will pour ships, troops and planes in.

A more likely scenario would be a Russian pre-emptive attack on Finland or Sweden.

 

[MenInG]

Volodymyr Zelenskyy has received a standing ovation and cheers from parliament as he called on the UK and the West to provide Ukraine with fighter jets during a surprise visit to London.

The Ukrainian president is the first foreign leader to address parliamentarians in Westminster Hall, the oldest part of parliament, since former Myanmar leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who is now in jail, in 2012.

Wearing his usual outfit of military fatigues, Mr Zelenskyy entered the famous hall, where the Queen's coffin lay in state, to a standing ovation and cheers from MPs and peers.

"We know freedom will win. We know Russia will lose."

He thanked "all the people of England and Scotland, of Wales and Northern Ireland" for their support, on behalf of "our fighters who are now in the trenches under enemy artillery fire".

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak received a handful of mentions from his Ukrainian counterpart, especially as he thanked the PM for providing more equipment to his country.

After saying he will "have the honour" to meet King Charles, Mr Zelenskyy presented the Speaker of the House of Commons, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, with a signed helmet from "one of our most successful" Ukrainian Air Force pilots.

"He's one of our kings," he said.

SKY

 

[KingKhanWC]

If the Russians cannot defeat Ukrainian part-timers equipped with fifty year old tanks, there is no way they could defeat British Army professionals armed with modern vehicles.

But it will never happen because the NATO doctrine of collective defence will apply. The Yanks will pour ships, troops and planes in.

A more likely scenario would be a Russian pre-emptive attack on Finland or Sweden.

Ukraine is done and dusted Robert, they are hanging on and while western nations are helping out their military industry by giving away stuff like a jumble sale. Also dont forget Russia only sent in a small force with mainly contractors, militias and chechens. 500k Russian troops in UK would mean we are toast.

The point is its idiotic for UK to be hosting Zelensky.

Let me ask you a simple question. A YEs or No will do.

Are you willing to DIE and your family to DIE for Ukraine?

 

[Robert]

Ukraine is done and dusted Robert, they are hanging on and while western nations are helping out their military industry by giving away stuff like a jumble sale. Also dont forget Russia only sent in a small force with mainly contractors, militias and chechens. 500k Russian troops in UK would mean we are toast.

The point is its idiotic for UK to be hosting Zelensky.

Let me ask you a simple question. A YEs or No will do.

Are you willing to DIE and your family to DIE for Ukraine?

But how are Russians going to get 500k troops here? The RN’s carrier and hunter-killer boats would sink the troopships. Not that 500k Russian troops would be any good if they did land. You can see how badly equipped and poorly motivated they are - I honestly expected Kyiv to fall by last March.

I don’t think the West will allow Ukraine to fall. If Putin wins there, he will push somewhere else. I think the Western strategy is to bleed the Russian military until there is a coup in the Kremlin. Perhaps the next guy will be more reasonable.

No, I wouldn’t want me or my family to die unless in defence of my own land. Don’t understand the purpose of the question though.

 

[KingKhanWC]

But how are Russians going to get 500k troops here? The RN’s carrier and hunter-killer boats would sink the troopships. Not that 500k Russian troops would be any good if they did land. You can see how badly equipped and poorly motivated they are - I honestly expected Kyiv to fall by last March.

I don’t think the West will allow Ukraine to fall. If Putin wins there, he will push somewhere else. I think the Western strategy is to bleed the Russian military until there is a coup in the Kremlin. Perhaps the next guy will be more reasonable.

No, I wouldn’t want me or my family to die unless in defence of my own land. Don’t understand the purpose of the question though.

Russia never had plans to occupy Kyiv. This has been explained numerous times on here.

Ukraine is done like a bad Yorkshire toast! Wake up to reality Robert not stay in dreamland. Putin has never suggested he wants to conquer any other areas in Europe, you are confusing him with western state terrorist imperialism.

If they did manage to land, 500k would be too much for the British forces. In Afghanistan they sent over so called heros who were so scared when a fire fight took place. Most are back with mental issues aka PTSD. The Chechens alone would be more than enough to fight British troops. British best chances will lie with its citizens.

UK got involved in helping Ukraine, if this escalates into a nuclear war(of course this is too much for you to imagine but IF), YOU WILL DIE and the world would be in ruins for what , some small towns in Eastern Ukraine?

 

[cpleigh]

Sunak 'nothing is off the table... It takes 3 years to train on typhoons... But Ukraine has had 2.5 years already'

Looks like the typhoon is going to enter the room

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sunak 'nothing is off the table... It takes 3 years to train on typhoons... But Ukraine has had 2.5 years already'

Looks like the typhoon is going to enter the room

)

He is taking you for a fool imo.

If UK typhoon is shot down and this escalates into a war with UK, will you be happy to die for Ukraine?

 

[cpleigh]

)

He is taking you for a fool imo.

If UK typhoon is shot down and this escalates into a war with UK, will you be happy to die for Ukraine?

Why would that escalate it to a war? I have ZERO fear of anything Russian.

 

[Technics 1210]

Let me ask you a simple question. A YEs or No will do.

Are you willing to DIE and your family to DIE for Ukraine?

You have got to be kidding! Liberals are not even prepared to house Ukrainian refugees!

 

[Robert]

Russia never had plans to occupy Kyiv. This has been explained numerous times on here.

Ukraine is done like a bad Yorkshire toast! Wake up to reality Robert not stay in dreamland. Putin has never suggested he wants to conquer any other areas in Europe, you are confusing him with western state terrorist imperialism.

If they did manage to land, 500k would be too much for the British forces. In Afghanistan they sent over so called heros who were so scared when a fire fight took place. Most are back with mental issues aka PTSD. The Chechens alone would be more than enough to fight British troops. British best chances will lie with its citizens.

UK got involved in helping Ukraine, if this escalates into a nuclear war(of course this is too much for you to imagine but IF), YOU WILL DIE and the world would be in ruins for what , some small towns in Eastern Ukraine?

Remember South Ossetia, and Crimea. Pure land-grabs. He wants the Baltic states back too. Guy sees himself as a Tsar.

This 500k is a silly scenario to talk about, it will not happen because NATO, so let us stop.

I lived through the eighties. We half expected to die in nuclear fire. There was a period of detente after 1989, but by about 2008 Putin started to turn up the heat again. Climate change will get a lot of us anyway.

 

[bones]

Sunak 'nothing is off the table... It takes 3 years to train on typhoons... But Ukraine has had 2.5 years already'

Looks like the typhoon is going to enter the room

So more fancy tools to add to the growing collection of hodge podge.

You never tell us how the Ukrainians will manage logistics for all this equipment from all these nations. I suppose in your world this western equipment doesn’t require re supply, maintenance or upgrades. Only Russian equipment does doesn’t it? You told us the Russians ran out of missiles in June… how is that going?

 

[sweep_shot]

You have got to be kidding! Liberals are not even prepared to house Ukrainian refugees!

Radical liberals only seem interested in lip services. They don't have any practical solutions.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why would that escalate it to a war? I have ZERO fear of anything Russian.

Acc to offiical history, WW1 started after an assaniation. If Brits keep arming Ukrainians, comitting terrorist attacks as they did on Nord Stream and the Crimean bridge, Russia will retaliate. Of course Brits think Europe and Yanks will come to the rescue but it might be too late.

Im assuming you have no fear as you are happy its the Ukrainians shedding blood for Nato and west and not you and them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why would that escalate it to a war? I have ZERO fear of anything Russian.

Remember South Ossetia, and Crimea. Pure land-grabs. He wants the Baltic states back too. Guy sees himself as a Tsar.

This 500k is a silly scenario to talk about, it will not happen because NATO, so let us stop.

I lived through the eighties. We half expected to die in nuclear fire. There was a period of detente after 1989, but by about 2008 Putin started to turn up the heat again. Climate change will get a lot of us anyway.

Those were historic Russian areas where the majority wanted to be with Russia. Can you cite an official quote where Putin has stated this? It seems more like western paranoia or western lies again.

Russia could wipe out all Nato ex USA within a day. But you are not willing to die for Ukrainian towns and neither should any Brit, the difference is some want the war to continue , which is rather foolish imo.

No fault of the west , just Putin? Ill leave climate change for the relevant thread.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have got to be kidding! Liberals are not even prepared to house Ukrainian refugees!

People live in a delusional bubble thinking its always going to be others who suffer from bombs and missiles. Imagine if it does happen to the UK? The people here would have nervous breakdowns.

 

[Robert]

Those were historic Russian areas where the majority wanted to be with Russia. Can you cite an official quote where Putin has stated this? It seems more like western paranoia or western lies again.

Russia could wipe out all Nato ex USA within a day. But you are not willing to die for Ukrainian towns and neither should any Brit, the difference is some want the war to continue , which is rather foolish imo.

No fault of the west , just Putin? Ill leave climate change for the relevant thread.

Obviously Putin is not laying out a public plan of conquest. As if Lao Tzu or Alexander or Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Hitler told their enemies what they were planning! I’m amazed at such a naive question from you.

And NATO can obliterate Russia in a day - minutes actually - without American help. Which is why neither will attack the other.

 

[Robert]

Acc to offiical history, WW1 started after an assaniation. If Brits keep arming Ukrainians, comitting terrorist attacks as they did on Nord Stream and the Crimean bridge, Russia will retaliate. Of course Brits think Europe and Yanks will come to the rescue but it might be too late.

Im assuming you have no fear as you are happy its the Ukrainians shedding blood for Nato and west and not you and them.

But no WW1 imperial powers had a plethora of nukes, so this is a false equivalency.

 

[Reddy]

8th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:

️Russian forces destroy factory of Ukrainian aviation industry enterprise, in which modernization of drones took place in Kharkov, East Ukraine.

️More than 130 Ukrainian soldiers ELIMINATED in Krasny Liman, Donetsk Republic

️Russian forces eliminate more than 215 Ukrainian soldiers and destroy 5 Ukrainian ammunition depots in Donetsk region

️Russian air defense systems destroy 11 US-made HIMARS MLRS shells and 10 Ukrainian drones.

️35 Ukrainian soldiers eliminated in Kupyansk, Kharkov, East Ukraine.

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12453960@egNews

 

[KingKhanWC]

Obviously Putin is not laying out a public plan of conquest. As if Lao Tzu or Alexander or Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Hitler told their enemies what they were planning! I’m amazed at such a naive question from you.

And NATO can obliterate Russia in a day - minutes actually - without American help. Which is why neither will attack the other.

Exactly the whole world will come to a near end or be left in ruins. Also exactly Russia for this reason has no intentions of attacking Nato nations or anyone else. If only Iraq, Syria and Libya had nukes, the yanks and others wouldnt act so brave then.

The point is its highly irresponsible and frankly idiotic to take on a nuclear power like Russia. Putin said something like what kind of world will be left without Russia. Its all very well sitting on sofas in London or Leeds cheerleading wars but the UK hasnt faced attacks here since WWII. The people here now are nothing of the sort we had back then. Make peace not war.

 

[KingKhanWC]

But no WW1 imperial powers had a plethora of nukes, so this is a false equivalency.

Did Germany and Ottomans have nukes in WW1?

 

[KingKhanWC]

George Galloway will be debating Ben Wallace and a high ranked Army officer at the Oxford Union regarding Ukraine conflict.

Not always agreed with George but on Ukraine he has been 100% spot on. He will make mince meat of the two of them.

 

[Robert]

Did Germany and Ottomans have nukes in WW1?

Nobody did until 1945. That’s why there was a Great War. The doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction didn’t exist.

Now it does, which is why there will be no WW3. There have been numerous proxy wars since - Vietnam, USSR-Afghanistan, where superpowers intervene in a small nation and others arm them.

 

[Robert]

George Galloway will be debating Ben Wallace and a high ranked Army officer at the Oxford Union regarding Ukraine conflict.

Not always agreed with George but on Ukraine he has been 100% spot on. He will make mince meat of the two of them.

On 14th February last year Galloway tweeted:

“Y'all said #Russia was about to invade #Ukraine. I told you it wasn't.
You were wrong. I was right. Again.“

Ten days later, Russia invaded.

Less than 100% spot on.

I can’t post it here as it’s a bit sweary.

 

[MenInG]

Ukraine's leader has taken his request for fighter jets to France and Germany after meeting UK officials.

President Volodymyr Zelensky met the two countries' leaders in Paris on Wednesday evening, where they pledged ongoing support to Ukraine.

France's Emmanuel Macron and Germany's Olaf Scholz restated their belief that Russia must not win the war.

Mr Zelensky will make more requests for jets when he meets European Union leaders in Brussels on Thursday.

He believes the fighter jets and long-range missiles are important in addition to the Leopard 2 tanks Western nations have recently committed to supplying.

Speaking at a joint news conference on Wednesday evening with Mr Macron and Mr Scholz, Mr Zelensky said France and Germany had potential to be "game-changers" in the battle against Russia by providing Ukraine with battle tanks, modern fighter planes and long-range missiles.

He said the supply of the jets had been discussed, and warned there was "very little time" to provide the weaponry.

Mr Macron said Ukraine could count on France's support and that the country was "determined to help Ukraine to victory and the re-establishment of its legitimate rights".

BBC

 

[the Great Khan]

Nobody did until 1945. That’s why there was a Great War. The doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction didn’t exist.

Now it does, which is why there will be no WW3. There have been numerous proxy wars since - Vietnam, USSR-Afghanistan, where superpowers intervene in a small nation and others arm them.

Why are you getting into hypotheticals. Stick to the main topic. We are getting bogged down with this stuff.

To get back to the topic if Bakhmut falls where next for ukrops?

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Russia is akin to Israel. They will keep on fighting until their aim is met.

While there are dissidents, Russian will die for their soil.

They have a patriotism that is unique insofar as it isn't entirely built on ethnicity nor religion though it obviously has played its part mostly to defend against dissidence, wich it ironically promotes in neighbouring countries.

It and Serbia want to bring back the USSR and Yugoslavia.

But Ukraine has a president who was a comedian who then became an actor playing a president.

It's surely only a matter of time before Julia Dreyfus is the first American Lady President.

 

[daytrader]

Ukraine’s Zelenskyy calls for fighter jets on Europe trip
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says ‘nothing is off the table’ after Ukrainian leader calls for allies to send fighter jets.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has urged the United Kingdom and other Western allies to send combat aircraft to ensure his country’s victory in the war with Russia as he began a tour of Europe.

On just his second trip abroad since the war began a year ago, Zelenskyy met British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and King Charles on Wednesday.

He was later due in Paris for dinner with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

In an address to the UK Parliament in London, the Ukrainian leader praised the UK for its support and reiterated his plea for combat aircraft, which he referred to as “wings for freedom”.

Western countries have so far stopped short of providing planes or weapons that can attack deep inside Russia

Offering an air force helmet, the president told the speaker of the House of Commons, “We have freedom. Give us wings to protect it.”

“I appeal to you and the world with simple and yet the most important words – combat aircraft for Ukraine, wings for freedom.”

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-to-meet-pm-sunak-in-first-wartime-trip-to-uk

 

[the Great Khan]

Not sure what planes can be offered at such short notice. They are saying f16's but these will be older models. If they are that desperate they should try and get mig29's but it sounds like most of those pilots are dead.

If they supply f16's will they come with the amraam bvr..the aim120d? If not then how will it deal with the su57 which has long range bvr and has already been credited with taking out some of ukraines su27's. Also if they are supplied with aim120's it takes time to train on tactics etc..

My biggest question is why didn't the west help Ukraine with its airforce before the war? What's the point now? Russia will launch a massive attack on Ukrainian air bases using its long range bombers and Cruise missiles.

What do they mean by it will be too late? Too late for what? I thought Ukraine was winning so what's the rush?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nobody did until 1945. That’s why there was a Great War. The doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction didn’t exist.

Now it does, which is why there will be no WW3. There have been numerous proxy wars since - Vietnam, USSR-Afghanistan, where superpowers intervene in a small nation and others arm them.

This is my point. Russia will NOT LOSE and sit there broken when it has nukes. To beat Russia is to destroy Russia inc yourself.

Russia has stated today sending fighter jets means the line will be crossed into a conflict with those sending them.

On 14th February last year Galloway tweeted:

“Y'all said #Russia was about to invade #Ukraine. I told you it wasn't.
You were wrong. I was right. Again.“

Ten days later, Russia invaded.

Less than 100% spot on.

I can’t post it here as it’s a bit sweary.

Russia didnt want to invade, they wanted a solution but had no choice since the Nazis of Ukraine, continued to kill innocents in Donbass.

Regardless Galloway will destroy the clown Brit General and Wallace. It was posted more for people who want to listen to George, if you dont , no point even thinking about it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not sure what planes can be offered at such short notice. They are saying f16's but these will be older models. If they are that desperate they should try and get mig29's but it sounds like most of those pilots are dead.

If they supply f16's will they come with the amraam bvr..the aim120d? If not then how will it deal with the su57 which has long range bvr and has already been credited with taking out some of ukraines su27's. Also if they are supplied with aim120's it takes time to train on tactics etc..

My biggest question is why didn't the west help Ukraine with its airforce before the war? What's the point now? Russia will launch a massive attack on Ukrainian air bases using its long range bombers and Cruise missiles.

What do they mean by it will be too late? Too late for what? I thought Ukraine was winning so what's the rush?

Its always a steady build up. At first no Howitzers, then No Tanks, then no Long range missiles but they all arrived. Western nations need to brainwash their populations or risk a revolt. Slow fearmongering has been a proven tatic for the west, see Iraq, Libya, Syria, it was all fear fear pornography which led to butchering of people under the disguise of helping the oppressed.

Fighter jets will be sent. If you watch Zelenskys visit to London it was all designed to move to the next stage, air power. Bringing out a helmet, meeting Charlie boy who was a pilot, seeing jets, seeing troops , talking about training on jets.

It will take 6-8 months and by then it will be easy to hand over fighter jets to Nazis.

Now people may think why would the UK risk war with Russia but these people are clueless and still believe UK is some sort of democracy lol. The people who rule the UK have no love for the UK. Its almost as if the aim is to bring down the west, if so its working well.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan also needs to stop sending weapons to Ukraine. The PDM imported government is a selling out its people to return favours to their Gods in Washington. PDM is a security risk, alongside the ever growing treasonous Army Generals in Pakistan.

 

[bones]

Looks like this British Army commander is seeing the end game and is getting desperate. Remember a few weeks ago when the likes of him, our own cpleigh and many members told us the Russians were done. Well seems like they're realising that was just pure fantasy.

_____________________________________________________________

With Russia back on the offensive after significant Ukrainian combat successes around Kharkiv and Kherson in the second half of 2022, the past few weeks have been the bloodiest so far of an already bloody war, with both sides taking extraordinarily heavy casualties. Expect it to get worse.

Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov says Russia has mobilised “much more” than 300,000 troops, perhaps up to half a million, and these are pouring into Ukraine in preparation for what is expected to be a major offensive in the coming days and weeks. Although Kyiv has also been building up its forces and supplying them with modern equipment donated by the West, Putin has a much greater advantage in troop numbers than he did when he invaded a year ago. Despite repeated optimistic reports of Russia running low on artillery shells – a battle winner in this conflict – Putin’s war stocks are vast, and his factories have been working around the clock to churn out even more.

Under pressure towards the end of last year, Russia withdrew its forces to positions of strength, trading ground for time as it massed resources for a planned hammer blow while grinding down the Ukrainians in the east, softening them up for the assault to come. Much of this has been done by infantry attack, throwing away “expendable” troops in time-honoured Russian style. The Kremlin has at the same time been conserving artillery shells (though expending thousands each day around Bakhmut alone) and the armoured vehicles that are so essential for the fast-moving blitzkrieg Putin is planning.

Until now, the narrative in the West has been that Ukraine is comfortably winning this war, albeit while facing heavy bombardments on its major cities. The reality is more complex. The latest estimates suggest that each side may have taken upwards of 120,000 casualties already – hardly indicative of a triumph for Ukraine. And there may be worse to come: the truth is that recent promises of new combat equipment for Ukraine – especially longer range missiles, tanks and other armoured vehicles – are unlikely to be fulfilled in time to have an impact in this battle if Putin launches his offensive on the timetable Kyiv predicts.

With so many more men and resources at its disposal, Moscow will be able to sustain higher casualty rates. This is why Russia tends to do better in wars the longer they go on – it can bring more to bear over time. Even today, Putin does not fear high casualties: disproportionate numbers of his troops are recruited from distant provinces rather than cities such as Moscow and St Petersburg, where a stream of body bags could have some effect on what still remains rock solid support for him and his war.

Another concern is that, while Russian forces have performed abysmally – thwarted by low troop morale, inadequate numbers, badly maintained equipment, clumsy tactics, substandard battle discipline, poor logistics, the stiffest Ukrainian resistance and an unexpectedly united effort from the West – some Ukrainian reports from the front indicate the Russians have been learning hard lessons and making much needed improvements, at least at the level of battle tactics and discipline. The Russian army was bleeding before, but it appointed new commanders and – as in the Second World War – may be recovering from its earlier disasters.

We must therefore be prepared for significant Russian gains in the coming weeks. We need to be realistic about how bad things could be – otherwise the shock risks dislodging Western resolve. The opposite occurred last summer and autumn, as flagging support in parts of Europe and the US was galvanised by Ukrainian success.

It is essential that we not only maintain our combat supplies to Ukraine, but step it up even further and even faster. If Putin gains more ground, then Kyiv will need to counterattack more strongly, and will need more armoured vehicles, better air defences, longer-range missiles and vast quantities of artillery shells and ammunition. The only alternative is that President Zelensky is forced to come to terms, handing victory to Russia and defeat to Ukraine and Nato.

Colonel Richard Kemp is a former infantry commander

 

[Robert]

This is my point. Russia will NOT LOSE and sit there broken when it has nukes. To beat Russia is to destroy Russia inc yourself.

Russia has stated today sending fighter jets means the line will be crossed into a conflict with those sending them.

Russia lost in Afghanistan.

Regardless Galloway will destroy the clown Brit General and Wallace. It was posted more for people who want to listen to George, if you dont , no point even thinking about it.

Wallace perhaps. All the Tories with brains were purged for being Remainers and only the ideologues remain

I wouldn't describe a General as a clown. Why are you so disrespectful? These are very, very bright and capable people, in charge of the lives of thousands. In a fierce meritocracy, they would not ascend to the top otherwise.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Russia lost in Afghanistan.




Wallace perhaps. All the Tories with brains were purged for being Remainers and only the ideologues remain

I wouldn't describe a General as a clown. Why are you so disrespectful? These are very, very bright and capable people, in charge of the lives of thousands. In a fierce meritocracy, they would not ascend to the top otherwise.

Russia was never in Afghanistan, it was the Soviet Union, there is a huge difference, please read up and learn.

I was being kind, the General is a complete and utter idiot. Being respectful isnt the law, telling the truth is most important. Lets watch the debate to see how smart he is against GG.

 

[sweep_shot]

Russia was never in Afghanistan, it was the Soviet Union, there is a huge difference, please read up and learn.

I was being kind, the General is a complete and utter idiot. Being respectful isnt the law, telling the truth is most important. Lets watch the debate to see how smart he is against GG.

Well said.

Being citizen doesn't mean one has to agree with everything the state does. If there is a fault, a citizen should have the right to point it out so that it can be rectified.

It is funny when a radical liberal like Robert lectures about "respect" when he himself disrespects the Tories (ruling government of UK).

This is the issue with radical liberals. They like to dish it out but can't take it. They try to behave like world police.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well said.

Being citizen doesn't mean one has to agree with everything the state does. If there is a fault, a citizen should have the right to point it out so that it can be rectified.

It is funny when a radical liberal like Robert lectures about "respect" when he himself disrespects the Tories (ruling government of UK).

My issue with these generals is they are lying through their teeth. Will he mention the new Seymour Hersh report on Nord Stream 2?

US bombed Nord Stream gas pipelines, claims investigative journalist Seymour Hersh

The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims.

Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using a Nato military exercise as a cover, planted mines along the pipelines that were later detonated remotely.

In September, a series of powerful explosions destroyed the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines that run through the Baltic Sea from Russia to Germany and provide cheap gas to mainland Europe. The attack was soon revealed to have been a deliberate act but no culprit has yet been identified.

Hersh, 85, who broke stories such as the mass murder of 500 civilians at My Lai in Vietnam and the torture of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, says that the “Black Op” was ordered by President Biden, and that the attack was carried out by the CIA in co-operation with Norway.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...estigative-journalist-seymour-hersh-s730dnnfz

Europeans should look out for Europe first not be puppets of US.

 

[the Great Khan]

Russia lost in Afghanistan.




Wallace perhaps. All the Tories with brains were purged for being Remainers and only the ideologues remain

I wouldn't describe a General as a clown. Why are you so disrespectful? These are very, very bright and capable people, in charge of the lives of thousands. In a fierce meritocracy, they would not ascend to the top otherwise.

There's a big difference between mujahideen and nazis.

 

[Technics 1210]

My issue with these generals is they are lying through their teeth. Will he mention the new Seymour Hersh report on Nord Stream 2?



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...estigative-journalist-seymour-hersh-s730dnnfz

Europeans should look out for Europe first not be puppets of US.

Give it time - Western Liberals, NATO apologists, and the ZMSM will claim Seymour Hersh is a Russian agent.

Every Liberal/NATO claim has been destroyed or turned out to be lie - propaganda, and the Liberals in this thread have fled from the facts.

Liberals are the enemy, not the Russians.

 

[the Great Khan]

By the way those magical typhoons [MENTION=145891]cpleigh[/MENTION] was shouting about aren't coming. I told you.

Look you two on here need to look at the basic military reality here. Its very simple. Why can't you see it. The general in the above article is being polite.

The equation is simple. Who can supply their forces quickly? Who can replenish their forces quickly? Who can continue to fight despite losses? Who can resupply and succeed on both a tactical level as well as strategic. Who controls the sky?

Ukraine is about to face the biggest Russian assault in Europe for nearly 70 years. And it will be sustained. They are prepared to take massive casualties but ultimately the aim is to evicserate the Armed force of Ukraine so they will be left with a rump.

They are already kidnapping 16 year olds to fight..how long do you think that sort of force will last.

The clock is ticking.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Give it time - Western Liberals, NATO apologists, and the ZMSM will claim Seymour Hersh is a Russian agent.

Every Liberal/NATO claim has been destroyed or turned out to be lie - propaganda, and the Liberals in this thread have fled from the facts.

Liberals are the enemy, not the Russians.

Hersh is a brilliant journalist. He exposed Abh Ghraib, Vietnam war crimes, bombing of Cambodia and even exposed OBLs 'killing' and more.

This report on Nord Stream should be huge news , near on par with 911 but not a peep from MSM.

 

[KingKhanWC]

DPR Chief warns Ukrainian forces use drone-dropped chemical weapon

Denis Pushilin reveals that he has been receiving reports of chemical weapons being used by Ukrainian forces for approximately three weeks now.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news...s-ukrainian-forces-use-drone-dropped-chemical

Remember the big uproar when claimed Syria used chemical weapons, which now know was a lie. But again not a peep when Nazis are using such weapons.

 

[sweep_shot]

https://english.almayadeen.net/news...s-ukrainian-forces-use-drone-dropped-chemical

Remember the big uproar when claimed Syria used chemical weapons, which now know was a lie. But again not a peep when Nazis are using such weapons.

If Yankees/West uses chemical or nuclear weapon = Good.

If another country does it = Bad.

Some naive people sadly seem to think like this.

 

[Reddy]

9th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:

️ Russian forces ELIMINATE up to 175 Ukrainian soldiers, destroy ammunition depot during offensive in Donetsk direction

️ Russian air defense shot down a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft near Kherson

️ More than 140 Ukrainian soldiers eliminated, an M-777 artillery system, and an ammunition depot destroyed in Kharkov region, East Ukraine.

️Russian air defense systems destroyed 11 Ukrainian drones and shot down 13 US-made HIMARS rocket shells.

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12454108@egNews

 

[the Great Khan]

Sunak 'nothing is off the table... It takes 3 years to train on typhoons... But Ukraine has had 2.5 years already'

Looks like the typhoon is going to enter the room

Funny post. The typhoons aren't going anywhere and the only thing entering the room is the smell of defeat.

 

[Robert]

There's a big difference between mujahideen and nazis.

Which Nazis? The Azov Battalion or the Wagner Group?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Which Nazis? The Azov Battalion or the Wagner Group?

Wagner have no ideological principles. Some members may share this but there are more in the British army who are hardcore racists/fascists. Azov on the other hand are ideologically Nazis, their symbols, flags, gestures and heros are Nazis.

 

[sweep_shot]

Wagner have no ideological principles. Some members may share this but there are more in the British army who are hardcore racists/fascists. Azov on the other hand are ideologically Nazis, their symbols, flags, gestures and heros are Nazis.

Azov Brigade are neo-Nazis and yet Ukraine allowed them to be integrated within Ukrainian military. I think that tells a lot about Ukraine.

Russia are hopefully barbequing and vaporizing these nasty Nazis.

 

[Gilly]

Azov Brigade are neo-Nazis and yet Ukraine allowed them to be integrated within Ukrainian military. I think that tells a lot about Ukraine.

Russia are hopefully barbequing and vaporizing these nasty Nazis.

I don't think I have read anything so disgusting, may your god have mercy on your soul.

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't think I have read anything so disgusting, may your god have mercy on your soul.

Are you pro-Nazi?

Check who Azov Brigade is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment.

The Special Operations Detachment "Azov" (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), also known as the Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк «Азов», romanized: Polk "Azov") and formerly the Azov Battalion[a] (Ukrainian: батальйон «Азов», romanized: Batalion "Azov"), is a unit of the National Guard of Ukraine formerly based in Mariupol, in the coastal region of the Sea of Azov, from which it derives its name.[10] The unit was founded in May 2014 as a volunteer paramilitary militia under the command of Andriy Biletsky to fight pro-Russian forces in the Donbas War, and was formally incorporated into the National Guard on 11 November 2014.[11][12]

The unit has drawn controversy over its early and allegedly continuing association with far-right groups and neo-Nazi ideology,[13] its use of controversial symbols linked to Nazism, and early allegations that members of the unit participated in torture and war crimes.[14][15][16] Some experts are critical of the regiment's role within the larger Azov Movement, a political umbrella group made up of veterans and organizations linked to Azov, and its possible far-right political ambitions, despite claims of the regiment's depoliticization.[17][9] Others argue that the regiment has evolved beyond its origins as street militia, tempering its neo-Nazi and far-right underpinnings as it became part of the National Guard.[18][19][11] Since 2014, criticism of the Azov Regiment has been a recurring theme of Russian propaganda,[20] and the unit has been designated a terrorist group by Russia since August 2022.[21]

The regiment's size was estimated to be around 900 to 2,500 combatants in 2017–2022.[22][3] Most of the unit's members are Russian speakers and come from the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine. It also includes members from other countries.[11][23] In the wake of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the regiment gained renewed attention, as one of the reasons given by Russian president Vladimir Putin for the invasion was the "denazification" of Ukraine, to remove the alleged control of the country by far-right forces such as Azov. During the Siege of Mariupol the regiment played a prominent role in the city's defense, and made its final stand at the Azovstal steel plant.[24][25] The siege ended when a significant amount of the regiment's fighters, including the regiment's commander, Denys Prokopenko, surrendered to Russian forces on orders from the Ukrainian high command.

 

[sweep_shot]

It is remarkable some people have a problem with being anti-Nazi.

You need to get off Nazism. This ain't 1940's. Russia smashed Nazis in WW2 and they are doing it again now.

 

[Robert]

Wagner have no ideological principles. Some members may share this but there are more in the British army who are hardcore racists/fascists. Azov on the other hand are ideologically Nazis, their symbols, flags, gestures and heros are Nazis.

I see no difference between Azov group and Wagner.

 

[LongHorn]

It is remarkable some people have a problem with being anti-Nazi.

You need to get off Nazism. This ain't 1940's. Russia smashed Nazis in WW2 and they are doing it again now.

Russia or its Orthodox cousins have also "smashed" and "vaporized" Afghans, Syrians, Chechens, Bosnians in recent decades

But yet you support them, so much for "Muslim solidarity".

Russian atrocities in Syria was the most recent and no less cruel than what people accuse Americans of

 

[Gilly]

Are you pro-Nazi?

Check who Azov Brigade is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment.

Am I pro Nazi, No I'm not.

I have no desire to see anyone dead, vaporized, barbequed or wiped out. Only terrorists and Nazi's resort to those type of actions.

 

[bones]

I see no difference between Azov group and Wagner.

Then you are definitely and deliberately ignoring facts. One is a private fighting organisation hiring mercenaries with no political agenda - they are there to make money. The other is an organisation that has an open agenda to wipe out based on race.

 

[Robert]

Russia or its Orthodox cousins have also "smashed" and "vaporized" Afghans, Syrians, Chechens, Bosnians in recent decades

But yet you support them, so much for "Muslim solidarity".

Russian atrocities in Syria was the most recent and no less cruel than what people accuse Americans of

And don’t forget that Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. It’s really no surprise that the Ukrainians hate Russia, after the 1930s genocide.

The Nazis are not unique in history, but just one iteration of totalitarianism, where the Big Political Idea becomes more important than people. See also The Great Leap Forward and the Khmer Rouge.

 

[daytrader]

Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia reports multiple Russian missile attacks
A new wave of attacks targets energy infrastructure in the southeastern city, as well as in Kharkiv, officials say.

Ukraine’s second-biggest city of Kharkiv and the southeastern city of Zaporizhzhia have been targeted in a wave of Russian missile attacks, according to officials.

At least 17 Russian missiles hit Zaporizhzhia in one hour on Friday morning, its acting mayor, Anatolii Kurtiev, said on Telegram, adding that the missiles targeted energy infrastructure.

Russian forces also launched a series of overnight attacks that knocked out power supplies in parts of Kharkiv.

“The occupiers hit critical infrastructure. There were about 10 explosions,” Kharkiv Governor Oleh Synehubov said on Telegram. “In some regions, there are power cuts. Emergency services are on site.”

There were no immediate words on casualties in either Zaporizhzhia or Kharkiv.

Russian forces have been advancing recently for the first time in half a year, in hard-fought battles that both sides describe as some of the bloodiest of the war.

Al-Jazeera

 

[bones]

^^^Impossible because cpleigh and many others told us that the Russians ran out of missiles in June.

 

[Robert]

Then you are definitely and deliberately ignoring facts. One is a private fighting organisation hiring mercenaries with no political agenda - they are there to make money. The other is an organisation that has an open agenda to wipe out based on race.

Putin said he was deNazifying Donbas. You don’t deNazify by adding more Nazis. Can’t you see the I get contradiction?

Be honest, and accept that this is an imperialist land-grab.

 

[bones]

Putin said he was deNazifying Donbas. You don’t deNazify by adding more Nazis. Can’t you see the I get contradiction?

Be honest, and accept that this is an imperialist land-grab.

Given that you stand for democracy and the free world with your support of Zelensky In surprised you didn’t volunteer to go out there and fight against the Russians.

You still have the chance to, they are taking anyone right now and you will be welcomed with open arms. Not sure how long you would last under the constant Barrage of artillery though.

 

[Robert]

Given that you stand for democracy and the free world with your support of Zelensky In surprised you didn’t volunteer to go out there and fight against the Russians.

You still have the chance to, they are taking anyone right now and you will be welcomed with open arms. Not sure how long you would last under the constant Barrage of artillery though.

I’ve already said that at my age I and speaking no Ukrainian I would just be underfoot. And not protected by the Geneva Convention.

There’s work left for me to do in UK before my end. Do my bit to see the back of this awful government for instance.

 

[the Great Khan]

Then you are definitely and deliberately ignoring facts. One is a private fighting organisation hiring mercenaries with no political agenda - they are there to make money. The other is an organisation that has an open agenda to wipe out based on race.

That's actually not entirely true. Wagner is a branch of the Russian military similar to many militia used by the CIA..they are a cross between that and blackwater.

 

[the Great Khan]

^^^Impossible because cpleigh and many others told us that the Russians ran out of missiles in June.

Frankly his ignorance is just laughable. At least you can have a civil conversation with [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION].

 

[sweep_shot]

Russia or its Orthodox cousins have also "smashed" and "vaporized" Afghans, Syrians, Chechens, Bosnians in recent decades

But yet you support them, so much for "Muslim solidarity".

Russian atrocities in Syria was the most recent and no less cruel than what people accuse Americans of

Everyone has blood on hands. No state is innocent. I am aware that Russia weren't always perfect. But, what Americans did were far worse.

It is a matter of "lesser of the two evils". We all know which country has a track record of destabilizing other countries and it definitely is not Russia. What they are doing in Ukraine is all about securing their borders. Zelensky can end it if he chooses to come to negotiation table.

I am not a Russian and I don't care what they do. But, I am glad they are smashing/weakening those Nazis. These Nazis are threats to Muslims living in West.

 

[sweep_shot]

^^^Impossible because cpleigh and many others told us that the Russians ran out of missiles in June.

Remember Junaids?

He was saying Russia were out of missiles/people/resources.

It doesn't seem like they watch anything beyond CNN.

 

[Technics 1210]

Look at what this war has exposed, apart from what has already been mentioned, we now have Liberals appeasing Nazis in Ukraine!

 

[the Great Khan]

Remember Junaids?

He was saying Russia were out of missiles/people/resources.

It doesn't seem like they watch anything beyond CNN.

He seems to have gone into hibernation..

 

[KingKhanWC]

I enjoyed Junaids posts, always helps to reaffirm your arguments make sense. I hope he returns [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], esp after he insisted the missile which killed two farmers in Poland was launched by Russia.

Barrage of missiles around Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia in the last 24 hrs.

But acc to the Ukrainians they shot down 61 of the 71 missiles. Ok

 

[Robert]

Frankly his ignorance is just laughable. At least you can have a civil conversation with [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION].

Thank you.

I never expected Ukraine to last this long. I thought Kyiv would have fallen by the end of last March.

 

[the Great Khan]

Thank you.

I never expected Ukraine to last this long. I thought Kyiv would have fallen by the end of last March.

Me.too but I think the Russians miscalculated and expected the Ukrainians to negotiate with the west intervening. When they saw that response was fierc3 they changed tactics..

They decided to eliminate as much of the Ukrainian standing army as possible and withdraw to build up for a later invasion. Gloves are off now. Russians are traditionally slow to wake up but once the bear awakens well you see now..

Also I think the west are betraying the Ukrainians..things gonna come back to haunt us..

 

[Robert]

Me.too but I think the Russians miscalculated and expected the Ukrainians to negotiate with the west intervening. When they saw that response was fierc3 they changed tactics..

They decided to eliminate as much of the Ukrainian standing army as possible and withdraw to build up for a later invasion. Gloves are off now. Russians are traditionally slow to wake up but once the bear awakens well you see now..

Also I think the west are betraying the Ukrainians..things gonna come back to haunt us..

I think eventually Putin will conquer Ukraine and there will be a long-term partisan resistance, as the Baltic states resisted USSR for decades, assisted by Western gun-running and training by special forces. Partisans will make Russia bleed for as long as the occupation lasts

 

[the Great Khan]

I think eventually Putin will conquer Ukraine and there will be a long-term partisan resistance, as the Baltic states resisted USSR for decades, assisted by Western gun-running and training by special forces. Partisans will make Russia bleed for as long as the occupation lasts

Logic would say that..but i have this feeling there is a swerve coming up from both parties..i believe he will take the donbass. Then odessa..and then create a buffer zone..they'll station troops and aircraft in the donbass and continue operations into hostle territory. Good for the Russian defence industry and for the west too..in the end the Ukrainians will suffer..

 

[KingKhanWC]

Logic would say that..but i have this feeling there is a swerve coming up from both parties..i believe he will take the donbass. Then odessa..and then create a buffer zone..they'll station troops and aircraft in the donbass and continue operations into hostle territory. Good for the Russian defence industry and for the west too..in the end the Ukrainians will suffer..

Ukraine will not be like Afghanistan, this was the plan at the start but a rather foolish one. Reason is simple, the lands which Russia has integrated into their federation consist of people who fully support Russia. If outsiders try to enter they will be wiped out or missiles will be sent flying into deeper Ukraine. If Putin wants, he can turn the rest of Ukraine into rubble and eventually the west will stop supporting its existence as it will cost too much .

Ukraine should be wise, negotiate now so they can keep some territory and more importantly live in peace.

The problem is the puppet has taken over completely as he has been given the money to maintain a team which isnt really caring for the interests of the nation or people. Wladimir Klitschko raised concerns, his office was raided with some staff locked up. HE is more Ukrainian than Zelensky will ever be.

 

[Reddy]

10th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:

️ More than 285 Ukrainian soldiers eliminated during Russia's offensive in Donetsk region.

️ 4 ammunition depots and 3 US-made M-777 artillery systems DESTROYED.

️ Russian forces eliminate 70 Ukrainian soldiers in Kupyansk, Kharkov, East Ukraine.

️ Russian air defense systems destroy 12 Ukrainian drones and shoot down 14 HIMARS rockets.

️ Russian troops eliminate up to 60 Ukrainian soldiers in Kherson

️Russian Aerospace Forces DESTROY a Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter in Zaporozhye

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12454209@egNews

 

[Reddy]

Massive Russian Missile Strikes: Summary for February 10, 2023 as of 12:01 p.m.(Moscow Time)

This morning, the attacks initially began on facilities in the Kharkiv region, in the occupied territories of Zaporozhye and Dnepropetrovsk, after which they spread to Odessa, the Kiev region, the Poltava region, and other regions. A Russian missile hit the turbine section of the Kryvyi Rih Thermal Power Plant; - apparently, this was the result of a morning arrival. Judging by the few photos and videos from Ukrainian citizens, the valiant Ukrainian air defense was again actively firing missiles but failed to shoot down the Russian missiles.

Confirmed damage to critical infrastructure in:
– Kyiv (CHP-5)
— Kharkov
— Odessa
— Kryvyi Rih (turbine department of Kryvyi Rih CHPP)
— Zaporozhye
— Dnepropetrovsk
— Khmelnytsky
— Vinnytsia region

️Emergency shutdowns in:
— Kyiv
— Kyiv region
— Poltava region
— Zhytomyr
— Dnepropetrovsk
— Zaporozhye
— Khmelnytsky

source: Slavyangrad

 

[Gilly]

As Russia’s Losses in Ukraine Spike, Those Tracking the Deaths Are Overwhelmed

An independent media outlet tallying the number of Russian military fatalities in Ukraine advertised this week for volunteers because — for the first time since the start of the war — it did not have enough people to process the incoming reports of deaths.

Mediazona’s staffing issues are just one of a series of recent indicators that Russia is suffering particularly high casualties in Ukraine as it intensifies military efforts ahead of what some believe is an imminent offensive.
*********
Mediazona, which uses public sources to compile a database of killed soldiers, said on Jan. 27 that its staff had confirmed the deaths of 876 Russian soldiers in the previous 10 days.
*****
Satellite imagery showed that a Wagner cemetery plot in Russia’s southern Krasnodar region had grown sevenfold in two months, The New York Times reported in late January.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023...se-tracking-the-deaths-are-overwhelmed-a80173

 

[Robert]

Ukraine will not be like Afghanistan, this was the plan at the start but a rather foolish one. Reason is simple, the lands which Russia has integrated into their federation consist of people who fully support Russia. If outsiders try to enter they will be wiped out or missiles will be sent flying into deeper Ukraine. If Putin wants, he can turn the rest of Ukraine into rubble and eventually the west will stop supporting its existence as it will cost too much .

You didn’t read my post. I said Ukrainian partisans will carry on guerilla warfare in the occupied territories, blowing up post offices and sniping Russian collaborators. In the same way the Maquis resisted Nazi occupation of Vichy France and the Forest Brothers resisted Soviet occupation of Latvia.