The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[90MPH]

Isn’t that up to the people of Ukraine? If they want to join EU for prosperity and NATO for protection, isn’t that their right?

How convenient the contrarians in this thread ignore the above question.
The Ukrainians certainly do not want to be a satellite or a puppet state for an oligarchic led petrol state because actions speaker louder than words as we have seen the evidence in elections and protests in the last 20 years.

The message is loud and clear that Ukrainians want to look West instead of east for a more prosperous future. I know this personally because I have spoken to Ukrainians on what their aspirations are - something Putin doesn’t want to accept and neither do his apologists.

 

[the Great Khan]

How convenient the contrarians in this thread ignore the above question.
The Ukrainians certainly do not want to be a satellite or a puppet state for an oligarchic led petrol state because actions speaker louder than words as we have seen the evidence in elections and protests in the last 20 years.

The message is loud and clear that Ukrainians want to look West instead of east for a more prosperous future. I know this personally because I have spoken to Ukrainians on what their aspirations are - something Putin doesn’t want to accept and neither do his apologists.

I believe that's fine for the Russians. But they can't join NATO was their demand.

 

[Technics 1210]

Liberals should stop talking about democracy given their antics in 2016 (Brexit and Trump).

Bunch of hypocritical racists and facists.

 

[bones]

The message is loud and clear that Ukrainians want to look West instead of east for a more prosperous future. I know this personally because I have spoken to Ukrainians on what their aspirations are - something Putin doesn’t want to accept and neither do his apologists.

Are you speaking to Ukranians from the west and north of the country or the south and east? I very much doubt you'vespoken to anyone from the Donbas - people on the receiving end of violence for years.

 

[bones]

If you guys haven't seen it yet, then I suggest you watch the translated videos of the former Israeli PM about Zelensky and Putin. I suppose being who he is, he'll be in no danger of being killed so he can speak openly and against the western agenda.

To summarise.

- Zelensky was hiding in bunkers until the Russians said they won't kill him - he then came out as a "courageous leader"
- The west stopped the Ukranians from negotiating

 

[Robert]

There wasnt half a million in Kyiv. Rose up? Nazis were used to shoot and murder people inc police. Are you suggesting you support this?

WW2 referenc is because you are happy nukes to be used on people so what type of violence do you stop at when it comes to those you support?

The demonstration in Kyiv was around 500k, though that might be an underestimate. I’ve also seen a figure of a million mentioned.

No, I said losing 250K lives in two nuclear blasts was better than losing millions in an invasion of the Japanese mainland or by starvation following a blockade.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The demonstration in Kyiv was around 500k, though that might be an underestimate. I’ve also seen a figure of a million mentioned.

No, I said losing 250K lives in two nuclear blasts was better than losing millions in an invasion of the Japanese mainland or by starvation following a blockade.

Not that many at all.

Lets leave the figure to one side.

You keep ignoring it was a bloody coup with NAzis shooting down people and police. How can such a violent extremist fascist coup be seen as legitimate?

 

[the Great Khan]

I think we are diverging from the main topic..let's continue to discuss the current situation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I think we are diverging from the main topic..let's continue to discuss the current situation.

Ukrainians are expecting an full on assault this month. In a few weeks will see Russian troops trained properly with elite weapons mowing through the Ukranians.

It makes sense for Ukraine to make a peace deal now. Reports suggest Macron was requested to call Putin by Zelenskly, but imo this was probably a desperate deception to save more time. The tanks from America wont arrive for months.

It is important to realise how this started esp for those who support Nato. Soros wrote of such a plan back in 1994 or around then. So much planning so much time to weaken Russia but a total humiliation is awaiting the west and their Nazi mates.

 

[sweep_shot]

It makes sense for Ukraine to make a peace deal now.

It made sense to make a peace deal a long time ago.

Zelensky is being greedy and selfish. He is using his troops and people as cannon fodders. Escalation is not the way to go (something Zelensky is not understanding).

 

[Technics 1210]

This war is not ending anytime soon

NATO were handed their backsides in Afghanistan, and as soon as NATO were kicked out of Afghanistan, NATO start the Ukrainian war.

NATO could've ended this war, weeks after it had started, but NATO, and its financiers, Zionists, are not interested in peace.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It made sense to make a peace deal a long time ago.

Zelensky is being greedy and selfish. He is using his troops and people as cannon fodders. Escalation is not the way to go (something Zelensky is not understanding).

I think Zelensky is under pressure from other Ukrainians ie Vladimir Klitchko who is the mayor of Kyiv. But Boris turns up again in Ukraine when he is no longer relevant in the UK to scupper any chance of peace. It was BOJO who did the same back in April.

Zelensky is not hiding he is a puppet now, he openly said “Ukraine War Is Good For Business!” Ukranians are dying , their nation is being desultory so the others can make money esp the Yanks. Yet we have people still deluded thinking this isnt a proxy war but a just war.

 

[daytrader]

Ukraine to replace Reznikov amid corruption scandal: Legislator
Oleksii Reznikov’s removal would be the highest-profile government change since a corruption scandal at the defence ministry last month.

Ukraine is set to replace defence minister Oleksii Reznikov with the chief of its military spy agency, a senior legislator has said, in a high-profile cabinet reshuffle following corruption scandals and ahead of an expected Russian offensive.

Reznikov, 56, would be transferred to another ministerial job and replaced by Kyrylo Budanov, 37, who heads Ukraine’s GUR military intelligence agency, David Arakhamia said on the Telegram messaging app on Sunday.

“War dictates personnel policies,” said Arakhamia, a close ally of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...ce-defence-minister-after-corruption-scandals

 

[Robert]

Not that many at all.

Lets leave the figure to one side.

You keep ignoring it was a bloody coup with NAzis shooting down people and police. How can such a violent extremist fascist coup be seen as legitimate?

The term “bloody coup” is exaggerating the violence. That doesn’t mean there were no violent and deadly clashes. There were, starting with the police attacking peaceful protesters camping on Independence Square with water cannon. Ukraine government mercenaries murdered protesters, and I expect far right elements n the crowds attacked police too, killing ten.

But President Yanukovych was ousted by the Parliament. He fled to Russia to avoid impeachment.

 

[Pakpak]

Big Russian offensive coming up reading from general news.

 

[Reddy]

5th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:


️ Russian forces kill over 235 Ukrainian troops in Donetsk Republic, West Russia as they continue offensive in region.

️ 2 Ukrainian drones and 11 rockets from Uragan (Hurricane) and US-supplied HIMARS launche Rockets shot down by Russian air defenses.

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12453578@egNews

 

[KingKhanWC]

The term “bloody coup” is exaggerating the violence. That doesn’t mean there were no violent and deadly clashes. There were, starting with the police attacking peaceful protesters camping on Independence Square with water cannon. Ukraine government mercenaries murdered protesters, and I expect far right elements n the crowds attacked police too, killing ten.

But President Yanukovych was ousted by the Parliament. He fled to Russia to avoid impeachment.

Police and public were shot dead by Nazis , this is a fact. See photos of Kyiv after, it looks like a bomb hit it.

Politicians were held at gun point too.

We will agree to disagree now because Russia is nearly ready to finish the Nazis off soon. Its best we keep an eye on these events from now on.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Israeli Mossad leaked a report on Ukrainian casualties.

However, the claims do not contradict other unofficial estimations of Ukrainian losses.

For example, Turkish Hurseda media reported, referring to Mossad sources, that irretrievable losses of the AFU exceeded 150, 000 servicemen. The number likely includes only dead servicemen. The reported numbers also revealed the losses of NATO countries on the Ukrainian front lines:

Irretrievable losses of the AFU – 157,000;
Irretrievable losses of NATO – 8052;
Wounded – 234,000;
Prisoners – 17,230;
Aviation – 302 aircraft and 212 helicopters
UAVs – 2,750 (excluding quadrocopters);
Air defense – 497 anti-missile systems and radars;
Armored vehicles – 6320 tanks, BMP, APC, MRAP, etc.;
Artillery – 7360 units of towed artillery, mortars, self-propelled guns, MLRS, short-range ballistic missile systems.
Various sources and military specialists estimated that losses of the Ukrainian military have already exceeded 200 000 servicemen since the beginning of the Russian special military operation. Some US military specialists have already claimed losses of about 400 000 servicemen.

https://southfront.org/ukrainian-ge...ence-reveal-ukrainian-russian-losses-reports/

Mossad have their own agenda but much of these figures match up with other reports.

 

[sweep_shot]

Israeli Mossad leaked a report on Ukrainian casualties.



https://southfront.org/ukrainian-ge...ence-reveal-ukrainian-russian-losses-reports/

Mossad have their own agenda but much of these figures match up with other reports.

The numbers seem realistic.

I hope all the Azov Nazis are gone by now. Russia is breaking their back.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I would est the number is higher.

Around 200k dead, 400k wounded/incapacitated.

50k missing.

5k foreign fighters.

And interestingly a few hundred UK/US and other western troops killed.

 

[the Great Khan]

I would est the number is higher.

Around 200k dead, 400k wounded/incapacitated.

50k missing.

5k foreign fighters.

And interestingly a few hundred UK/US and other western troops killed.

They've lost about 14 brigades in bakhmut alone..the above figures show that the ukrops army have been destroyed for all intents and purposes.

Hence why the begging for hundreds of tanks etc. Once bakhmut false the defence lines are practically gone. Some experts are saying the Russians can possible simply walk into Odessa at this rate..I tend to think not but it is looking like the endgame now..

 

[KingKhanWC]

They've lost about 14 brigades in bakhmut alone..the above figures show that the ukrops army have been destroyed for all intents and purposes.

Hence why the begging for hundreds of tanks etc. Once bakhmut false the defence lines are practically gone. Some experts are saying the Russians can possible simply walk into Odessa at this rate..I tend to think not but it is looking like the endgame now..

A brigade is around 5k troops but I think around 3K for the Ukrainians. Still a lot of men dying for one area even though its important.

They can retreat to other grounds but its just a matter of time now. Ukraine lost he war months ago, they are hanging on for no reason imo.

Expect a false flag when the Russians enter or a diversion to China/Taiwan, some sort of attack.

Nato/West are on a mission for some sort of global destruction it seems.

 

[Reddy]

6th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:

️ Russian forces take control of Nikolaevka, Donetsk Republic and eliminate pver 100 Ukrainian soldiers in Liman direction, Donetsk Republic (DPR).

️ Russian forces shoot down 4 Ukrainian drones and 15 US-supplied HIMARS rockets, destroying radar station of Ukrainian S-300 air defense system and US-made AN/TPQ-36 counter-battery radar in Kharkov, East Ukraine.

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12453705@egNews

 

[the Great Khan]

A brigade is around 5k troops but I think around 3K for the Ukrainians. Still a lot of men dying for one area even though its important.

They can retreat to other grounds but its just a matter of time now. Ukraine lost he war months ago, they are hanging on for no reason imo.

Expect a false flag when the Russians enter or a diversion to China/Taiwan, some sort of attack.

Nato/West are on a mission for some sort of global destruction it seems.

The numbers are astonishing I don't understand why they didn't call for a ceasefire after kherson.

They could have milked that.

 

[bones]

Have you guys notice that cpleigh and junaids have been very very quiet for several weeks now.

They kept telling us Ukraine was winning.

 

[sweep_shot]

Have you guys notice that cpleigh and junaids have been very very quiet for several weeks now.

They kept telling us Ukraine was winning.

Junaids was saying Russia ran out of missiles and was about to lose.

I wonder what he thinks now.

It shows that some people are not in touch with facts.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Have you guys notice that cpleigh and junaids have been very very quiet for several weeks now.

They kept telling us Ukraine was winning.

Maybe they are in Bakhmut helping out?

MSM have also gone mute.

6 months ago, it was all headlines of how Russia is losing, Putin is about to die due to illness etc.

Now we have

Bakhmut, Kyiv, and the other key Ukrainian cities and towns in Russia's sights

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64533495

 

[Reddy]

They've lost about 14 brigades in bakhmut alone..the above figures show that the ukrops army have been destroyed for all intents and purposes.

Hence why the begging for hundreds of tanks etc. Once bakhmut false the defence lines are practically gone. Some experts are saying the Russians can possible simply walk into Odessa at this rate..I tend to think not but it is looking like the endgame now..

A brigade is around 5k troops but I think around 3K for the Ukrainians. Still a lot of men dying for one area even though its important.

They can retreat to other grounds but its just a matter of time now. Ukraine lost he war months ago, they are hanging on for no reason imo.

Expect a false flag when the Russians enter or a diversion to China/Taiwan, some sort of attack.

Nato/West are on a mission for some sort of global destruction it seems.

It will not be easy even now, Have you seen the Telegram videos of Ukrainian recruitment process? They are dragging men out of their homes, subway stations, roads etc. From old men to as young as 16, even half blind, deaf and other disabled people. The man/husband fighting with the guards and getting dragged out of house, whole family crying, miserable scenes all around.

The Ukrainian elite will easily throw another 100k-200k bodies at the Russian forces, so unless negotiations start, it will be one long meat grinder after another.

 

[Technics 1210]

Look, lets get real here. The NATO/Liberal apologists were chest thumping and claiming Russia would be defeated within months of the war starting, now we are approaching the 1st year anniversary of the war, with NATO humiliated, with Liberals exposed, and Ukrainians refugees importing their brand of racism in the UK.

My ideal outcome would be for Trump to return to power, negotiate peace with Putin, and to send every single liberal packing. I will settle with 2/3.

All the NL-ZMSM claims of Russian missiles are no more, Russians army no more, Russian economy no more, Russian currency no more - all of these - have turned out to be lies.

As it has been said, the truth is the first casualties of war, and in this war, the liberals were the first causalities, followed by NATO.

 

[SalimBhai]

Also the Russians were predicting the war will end within a month. And here we are 1 year on

 

[Technics 1210]

As it has been said, the truth is the first casualties of war, and in this war, the liberals were the first causalities, followed by NATO.

Correction : Liberals were the 2nd causalities, and NATO the 3rd.

 

[bones]

Also the Russians were predicting the war will end within a month. And here we are 1 year on

It was a SMO. Once the negotiations in April collapsed it then escalated and turned into what it is now. The AFU has been largely obliterated.

 

[Reddy]

7th February Briefing, Russian Ministry of defence:

Russian forces eliminate more than 50 Ukrainian soldiers in Kupyansk, Kharkov, East Ukraine.

More than 190 Ukrainian soldiers eliminated in Donetsk Republic

Russian forces eliminate up to 20 Ukrainian soldiers, destroy a self-propelled howitzer Akatsiya in Kherson

More than 80 Ukrainian soldiers eliminated, 2 D-20 howitzers, 2 D-30 howitzers, and a Gvozdika howitzer destroyed in South Donetsk and Zaporozhye directions


https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12453851@egNews

 

[in_cutter]

I see Zelensky has arrived in the UK, in the middle of a war with his begging bowl. The guy is a fraud.

 

[The_KING]

You look at the way Zelensky dresses and wonder from which angle does this guy look like a president?

 

[sweep_shot]

You look at the way Zelensky dresses and wonder from which angle does this guy look like a president?

His previous profession was comedian.

 

[sweep_shot]

I see Zelensky has arrived in the UK, in the middle of a war with his begging bowl. The guy is a fraud.

He seems to be a shameless guy. Draining resources of other countries without the desire to end the war. He seems to think money grows on trees and countries can send them unlimited resources.

He is like one of those trophy wives. Wants to spend but doesn't want to work.

 

[in_cutter]

He seems to be a shameless guy. Draining resources of other countries without the desire to end the war. He seems to think money grows on trees and countries can send them unlimited resources.

He is like one of those trophy wives. Wants to spend but doesn't want to work.

Or maybe it’s a shopping trip for the wife

 

[Technics 1210]

NYT journalist reporting Amreeka was behind the Nord Pipeline sabotage attack.

"The Nord Stream pipelines were destroyed last September by the US in a covert operation, Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has claimed. The legendary reporter made the bombshell revelation in an article posted to his newly launched blog on Substack on Wednesday."

The critical thinkers knew this already.

 

[sweep_shot]

NYT journalist reporting Amreeka was behind the Nord Pipeline sabotage attack.

"The Nord Stream pipelines were destroyed last September by the US in a covert operation, Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has claimed. The legendary reporter made the bombshell revelation in an article posted to his newly launched blog on Substack on Wednesday."

The critical thinkers knew this already.

Not the first time Yankees have done something like this.

But, some naive people of course think Yankees are the good guys. They don't seem to know about American military industrial complex.

 

[Robert]

He seems to be a shameless guy. Draining resources of other countries without the desire to end the war. He seems to think money grows on trees and countries can send them unlimited resources.

He does want to end the war - when every Russian boot leaves Donbas and Crimea.

HM Gov won’t give him fighters though. RAF and RN don’t have enough to defend UK and the fleet from Putin and his allies.

 

[sweep_shot]

He does want to end the war - when every Russian boot leaves Donbas and Crimea.

HM Gov won’t give him fighters though. RAF and RN don’t have enough to defend UK and the fleet from Putin and his allies.

Trophy wife Zelensky needs to understand his and his country's limitation.

It is better to accept defeat gracefully than to behave like a trophy wife.

It is remarkable how certain countries are damaging their economies just to unnecessarily prolong a conflict.

 

[Technics 1210]

Want to end the war with more fighters, but not peace talks.

Utterly delusional liberal thinking.

 

[bones]

He does want to end the war - when every Russian boot leaves Donbas and Crimea.

What he wants like most of the west, is fantasy. I didn't realise it, but the Ukranians have gone through 12 waves of mobilisation. They have lowered the conscription age. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Just in Bakhmut alone in 2 months the Ukranians lost 20k soldiers!

The war will end, only you and Zelensky are not going to like the outcome.

 

[Technics 1210]

Not the first time Yankees have done something like this.

But, some naive people of course think Yankees are the good guys. They don't seem to know about American military industrial complex.

Amreeka and Isrealis - masters of false flag operations and mass propaganda.

 

[sweep_shot]

Amreeka and Isrealis - masters of false flag operations and mass propaganda.

Yeah. Don't forget UK too.

Here's what they did in Iran in 1953 (just one of many examples):

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد), was the U.S.- and UK-instigated overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favor of strengthening the monarchical rule of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, on 19 August 1953.[5] It was aided by the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project[6] or "Operation Ajax") and the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot").[7][8][9][10] The clergy also played a considerable role.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état.

These hypocrites cry when Russia allegedly interfere in their "democracies". But, what about them? When will they stop interfering?

 

[cpleigh]

Have you guys notice that cpleigh and junaids have been very very quiet for several weeks now.

They kept telling us Ukraine was winning.

Because nothing's happening. We are in the winter pause, which was always coming.

April will kick in again.

Sounds like Typhoons will be incoming to Ukraine soon after todays Visit.

 

[cpleigh]

What he wants like most of the west, is fantasy. I didn't realise it, but the Ukranians have gone through 12 waves of mobilisation. They have lowered the conscription age. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Just in Bakhmut alone in 2 months the Ukranians lost 20k soldiers!

The war will end, only you and Zelensky are not going to like the outcome.

Put that Russian propaganda away... 20k ha ha ha ha

I mean... do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[cpleigh]

Israeli Mossad leaked a report on Ukrainian casualties.



https://southfront.org/ukrainian-ge...ence-reveal-ukrainian-russian-losses-reports/

Mossad have their own agenda but much of these figures match up with other reports.

Why even link that? its fictitous and fantasy land stuff. The Turkish source doesn't even exist according to Turkish people, its a Russian propaganda tool.

Like MOSSAD would leak it to a Turkish paper....

No NATO troops have died, as confirmed by the UK. LOL at Ukraine having 6k tanks to lose, and 500 aircraft. Thats way more than they started the war with.

Do people really fall for this garbage??

 

[Robert]

Trophy wife Zelensky needs to understand his and his country's limitation.

It is better to accept defeat gracefully than to behave like a trophy wife.

It is remarkable how certain countries are damaging their economies just to unnecessarily prolong a conflict.

Have you noticed how you often you knock other men’s masculinity? While simultaneously bowing to the bully he is standard up to.

Let’s see you defend your nation against an implacable invader.

 

[Robert]

Why even link that? its fictitous and fantasy land stuff. The Turkish source doesn't even exist according to Turkish people, its a Russian propaganda tool.

Like MOSSAD would leak it to a Turkish paper....

No NATO troops have died, as confirmed by the UK. LOL at Ukraine having 6k tanks to lose, and 500 aircraft. Thats way more than they started the war with.

I would imagine a few special forces guys have died.

But I agree that the story is Moscow propaganda. Amazing how people here don’t believe a word from the “MSM” while simultaneously believing everything from the Kremlin.

 

[Technics 1210]

NATO turned a blind eye to the Muslim genocide in Bosnia.

NATO attacked, illegally, helpless nations in the ME, Iraq and Afghanistan.

NATO sanctions on Russia have failed.

NATO funding the proxy Ukraine war has failed

NATO does not have the sand to attack Russia.

NATO is not interested in peace talks, but the blood of innocent lives.

NATO is funded by Zionists and supported by Liberals.

NATO, like the UN, has been an abject failure in defense, but a champion in attack.



Time to destroy NATO - North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation.

 

[Robert]

Because nothing's happening. We are in the winter pause, which was always coming.

April will kick in again.

Sounds like Typhoons will be incoming to Ukraine soon after todays Visit.

Doubt it. We can’t spare them. The 2010 Defence Review gutted the RAF.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yeah. Don't forget UK too.

Here's what they did in Iran in 1953 (just one of many examples):



Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état.

These hypocrites cry when Russia allegedly interfere in their "democracies". But, what about them? When will they stop interfering?

It was the UK that was instrumental in overturning a democratic elected leader in Iran in the 50s, yet these Liberal peasants and Western hemisphere believe Iran is the enemy. Typical Liberals, cannot accept a democratic result when not in their warmongering racist and fascist favour.

Liberalism is worse than Nazism.

 

[The_KING]

His previous profession was comedian.

There is something off about this guy.

How hard is for him to get a suit? He looks so unprofessional.

 

[sweep_shot]

Let’s see you defend your nation against an implacable invader.

As per one of your previous posts, you initially supported American invasion of Iraq. You also supported American invasion of Afghanistan and nuking Japan in WW2 (reference to your post: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Quran-burning-protest&p=11743837#post11743837).

So, you are basically saying when America/NATO invades, it is okay. But, if Russia does it, it is bad.

Okay. Got it.

 

[cpleigh]

NATO turned a blind eye to the Muslim genocide in Bosnia. - NATO intervend whilst Russia did nothing.

NATO attacked, illegally, helpless nations in the ME, Iraq and Afghanistan. - Russia gassed innocent people in Syria

NATO sanctions on Russia have failed. - No they haven't

NATO funding the proxy Ukraine war has failed - HAs it? Russia hasn't won

NATO does not have the sand to attack Russia. - NATO hasn't been attacked.

NATO is not interested in peace talks, but the blood of innocent lives. - Russia is the only aggressor

NATO is funded by Zionists and supported by Liberals. - Casual racism again. What have Jewish people got to do with NATO?

NATO, like the UN, has been an abject failure in defense, but a champion in attack. - Thats Russia isn't it?



Time to destroy NATO - North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation. - Good Luck.... NATO is the thing that keeps you safe and allows you to post drivel on a forum from your safe London home.

Corrected a few things for you

 

[sweep_shot]

It was the UK that was instrumental in overturning a democratic elected leader in Iran in the 50s, yet these Liberal peasants and Western hemisphere believe Iran is the enemy. Typical Liberals, cannot accept a democratic result when not in their warmongering racist and fascist favour.

Liberalism is worse than Nazism.

That 1953 event was criminal. Why did they do it? Check:

Mosaddegh had sought to audit the documents of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), a British corporation (now part of BP), to verify that AIOC was paying the contracted royalties to Iran, and to limit the company's control over Iranian oil reserves.[12] Upon the AIOC's refusal to cooperate with the Iranian government, the parliament (Majlis) voted to nationalize Iran's oil industry and to expel foreign corporate representatives from the country.[13][14][15] After this vote, Britain instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.[16] Initially, Britain mobilized its military to seize control of the British-built Abadan oil refinery, then the world's largest, but Prime Minister Clement Attlee (in power until 1951) opted instead to tighten the economic boycott[17] while using Iranian agents to undermine Mosaddegh's government.[18]: 3  Judging Mosaddegh to be unreliable and fearing a Communist takeover in Iran, UK prime minister Winston Churchill and the Eisenhower administration decided in early 1953 to overthrow Iran's government, though the preceding Truman administration had opposed a coup, fearing the precedent that Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) involvement would set.[18]: 3  British intelligence officials' conclusions and the UK government's solicitations were instrumental in initiating and planning the coup, despite the fact that the U.S. government in 1952 had been considering unilateral action (without UK support) to assist the Mosaddegh government.[19][20][21]

Following the coup in 1953, a government under General Fazlollah Zahedi was formed which allowed Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the last Shah of Iran (Persian for 'king'),[22] to rule more firmly as monarch. He relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power.[13][14][15][23] According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on 19 August.[5] Other men paid by the CIA were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.[24] Between 200[3] and 300[4] people were killed because of the conflict. Mosaddegh was arrested, tried and convicted of treason by the Shah's military court. On 21 December 1953, he was sentenced to three years in jail, then placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life.[25]: 280 [26][27] Other Mosaddegh supporters were imprisoned, and several received the death penalty.[15] After the coup, the Shah continued his rule as monarch for the next 26 years[14][15] until he was overthrown in the Iranian Revolution in 1979.[14][15][18]

In August 2013, the U.S. government formally acknowledged the U.S. role in the coup by releasing a bulk of previously classified government documents that show it was in charge of both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.[28][29] The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government".[30]

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état.

Can you imagine another entity trying to do this in UK or US? BBC/CNN would probably cry about this for years.

 

[Technics 1210]

That 1953 event was criminal. Why did they do it? Check:

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état.

Can you imagine another entity trying to do this in UK or US? BBC/CNN would probably cry about this for years.

Here's the funny part, UK and USA liberal governments blame Russia for trying to influence democratic exercises - foreign influence as the call it - (Brexit/Trump), but these same pansies were, are, and still engage in regime change on a daily basis!

Here's another. Obama uses Cambridge analytics to help his election, Trump does the same, and he's accused of being a Russian agent!

 

[bones]

So according to cpleigh and MSM. Ukraine with logistics in place for Polish, German, British, French, American, Russian, Soviet, Turkish equipment will turn the tide in their favour after the winter pause. They will do this not only with the logistics in place, the ability to repair and maintain the equipment, but with conscripts who have 2-3 months of training.

Someone thinking about the situation might say the Ukrainians have been doomed since day 1 and any number of this hodge podge collection of western equipment will not change the tide.

 

[bones]

Apparently if you look into the finer details, the Americans are sending their "game-changing" Abrams tanks with 1970s armour and 1980s tech. Not only are they sending old tanks to Ukraine, they are building from scratch because their don't have many in their warehouses readily available.

If the feedback of the Javelins by the AFU is anything to go by, then the equipment coming in from the west will be more crap that is regularly malfunctioning and difficult to service.

 

[sweep_shot]

Apparently if you look into the finer details, the Americans are sending their "game-changing" Abrams tanks with 1970s armour and 1980s tech. Not only are they sending old tanks to Ukraine, they are building from scratch because their don't have many in their warehouses readily available.

If the feedback of the Javelins by the AFU is anything to go by, then the equipment coming in from the west will be more crap that is regularly malfunctioning and difficult to service.

Their equipment are overrated. Their military is overrated. I am referring to Yankees. Their pampered troops may lose against North Korea if there are no airstrikes. Remember they lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

They are only relevant because of their nukes and fighter jets.

 

[Reddy]

Some interesting info from last two days regarding drones, Mysteriously a drone manufacturing facility caught fire in Latvia and was completely destroyed and then 6 missiles hit a drone/aviation factory in Ukraine. So, Two major drone suppliers for Ukraine have been destroyed within 48 hours

 

[bones]

The big heavy equipment being sent to Ukraine, even some MSM can't cover the issues they will face. Lighter more mobile Russian equipment is "ancient junk" but heavier and older western equipment is "game-changing". Look at the cope in the comment section.

https://www.newsweek.com/nato-tanks-abrams-challenger-2-leopard-2-weight-ukraine-1779040?amp=1

 

[the Great Khan]

Why even link that? its fictitous and fantasy land stuff. The Turkish source doesn't even exist according to Turkish people, its a Russian propaganda tool.

Like MOSSAD would leak it to a Turkish paper....

No NATO troops have died, as confirmed by the UK. LOL at Ukraine having 6k tanks to lose, and 500 aircraft. Thats way more than they started the war with.

Do people really fall for this garbage??

It doesn't really matter. Because you can extrapolate from western sources and even Ukraines own statements.

For example zel2nsky has asked for 350 to 400. Which is fine but his general practically asked for a new army. Therefore one can extrapolate that they do not have this equipment because it has either been utterly destroyed or immobilised. They also say they need this equipment before August or it will be too late. Too late for what? If Ukraine is winning they should have plenty of time together new equipment onto the battlefield.

Look I get it. Your on Ukraines side. I have no bone in this fight and yes I do call out the hypocrisy but I'm looking at this from a military perspective as that is my hobby and interest.

Ukraine are now asking for western fighter jets. A Mig29 pilot needs at least a full years training to get fully upto speed with a modern western jet..some say they can never really be proficient. So you need new young pilots who haven't flown before. That will take at least 8-12 months..some jet pilots say it takes at least 4 years to fully become proficient. How will thisnbe possible? Unless retired NATO and other pilots are drafted in to fly these places while Ukrainians train. It could be all over before then

Coming onto the tanks. According to western sources beforenthe war Ukraine had about 500-600 tanks with about 1000 t72s in storage and in variety of conditions. Mostly not good. Clearly they have lost the majority of the tank force. So you bring in leopard 1's that are cold war tech. They will fare like the t72 etc. The leopard 2 won't be on the field in massive numbers till at least the end of the year..by then it could be all over..

Having said all this Ukraine could carry out some strategic operations and slow the Russian advance. Bog them down. Use tanks as fire support and attack logistics and communication notes.. but you dont control the air and they will be sitting ducks..

Overall the best the ukrops can hope for is Russian incompetence and a negotiated settlement.

 

[MenInG]

Number 10 responds to Zelenskyy's direct appeal for UK to send jets
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has asked Defence Secretary Ben Wallace to investigate what jets the UK could potentially give to Ukraine, Downing Street has said.

A spokesman for Mr Sunak said it was a "long-term solution" and that "short-term capability" is what Kyiv needs most at the moment.

Earlier, in an address to MPs in Westminster Hall, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy urged the UK and the UK to provide "wings for freedom" by supplying his air force with advanced jets.

Mr Zelensky used the address to thank the UK for its steadfast support since Russia invaded.

But, as he presented a Ukrainian fighter pilot's helmet to Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle, he said more planes were needed to defeat Vladimir Putin's forces.

Rishi Sunak earlier announced plans to train Ukrainian pilots, eventually paving the way for them to be able to fly NATO-standard jets.

"Obviously we want it to start as soon as possible," the spokesman said.

"I think we are keen to do whatever is possible to get these pilots trained up as fast as possible.

"But these are complex pieces of military equipment. And as you know the current training period for UK pilots is around five years.

"We think this is right to provide both short-term equipment like Challenger tanks, additional guns, longer-range capabilities that can help win the war now, but also look to the medium-to-long term to ensure Ukraine has every possible capability it requires.

"The prime minister has tasked the defence secretary with investigating what jets we might be able to give but, to be clear, this is a long-term solution rather than a short-term capability, which is what Ukraine needs most now."

The supply of British planes is "actively" being considered by the defence secretary, Number 10 insisted, but stressed no decision had been taken on whether to supply jets to Ukraine.

SKY

 

[KingKhanWC]

The UK is broke but has money to gift fighter jets to Ukraine. lol.

I find it hard to believe Ukranians will learn to fly Eurofighter Typhoon or F35B quickly enough. Chances are British RAF will fly these covertly and be shot down by S400 , which could trigger a war between UK and Russia and Nato.

UK dont have enough troops for 24 hours to fight Russia. Not to mention ONE Russian nuclear missile will end this country forever.

Brits are even more deluded than Yanks. At least the Yanks have a largish army with a lot of weapons and most importantly they are far away. Brits still think its the 1800's where they can go bully and defeat most nations.

Most British soldiers are young , drunk crazed men who have been on computer games. They would be easy prey for the Russian troops.

UK should be a peacemaker, insist on a peace deal but we all know UK is not an independent nation.

 

[the Great Khan]

The UK is broke but has money to gift fighter jets to Ukraine. lol.

I find it hard to believe Ukranians will learn to fly Eurofighter Typhoon or F35B quickly enough. Chances are British RAF will fly these covertly and be shot down by S400 , which could trigger a war between UK and Russia and Nato.

UK dont have enough troops for 24 hours to fight Russia. Not to mention ONE Russian nuclear missile will end this country forever.

Brits are even more deluded than Yanks. At least the Yanks have a largish army with a lot of weapons and most importantly they are far away. Brits still think its the 1800's where they can go bully and defeat most nations.

Most British soldiers are young , drunk crazed men who have been on computer games. They would be easy prey for the Russian troops.

UK should be a peacemaker, insist on a peace deal but we all know UK is not an independent nation.

I hear the uk has handed over most of its mobile guns and is now short. Of course this just means defence contractors will have a field day replenishing stock and getting rid of junk.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why even link that? its fictitous and fantasy land stuff. The Turkish source doesn't even exist according to Turkish people, its a Russian propaganda tool.

Like MOSSAD would leak it to a Turkish paper....

No NATO troops have died, as confirmed by the UK. LOL at Ukraine having 6k tanks to lose, and 500 aircraft. Thats way more than they started the war with.

Do people really fall for this garbage??

If you dont believe the report its your decision but the numbers to add up when compared to various other reports. Even the EU have confirmed over 100k Uktrops have been killed or are they lying too?

Or should I believe someone who said Russia has only 150 missiles left months ago?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I hear the uk has handed over most of its mobile guns and is now short. Of course this just means defence contractors will have a field day replenishing stock and getting rid of junk.

There is little money to pay contractors. Even Ben Wallace admitted the British Army is no longer regarded as a top tier force due to cuts over the years. As you would be aware a Eurofighter jet costs around £100 million each. It seems like false promises as when Ukraine accepts defeat the UK Gov can suggest they did everything they could have.

The troubling thing is British army want to cut numbers to 75k in a few years. Even in a conventional war, the Russians could walk in and take over within days.

I did want you opinion on how well the S400 (or does Russia now have ready the S500) would do against these type of jets?

 

[the Great Khan]

If you dont believe the report its your decision but the numbers to add up when compared to various other reports. Even the EU have confirmed over 100k Uktrops have been killed or are they lying too?

Or should I believe someone who said Russia has only 150 missiles left months ago?

The fact is if the numbers were wrong the Ukrainians would be in the crimea by now. According to some of Ukraine well wishes the Russians have lost 200k men. Now this could be true. However how quickly can they replenish and counter attack? We know they are using at least three proxies in wagner the chechens and the donbass militia..we also.know the donbass militia have taken lots of casualties and so have wagner..but they are all expendable. The full Russian army has been retrained and mobilised. Their economy has been Re engineered into a war economy. 40-50 tanks a month by conservative estimates are being churned out..thousands of rounds of ammunition..missiles..artillery shells...the ukrops say they are now outnumbered. They kill 20 Russians and they keep coming.

This is not going to end well...if the Russians take Bakhmut the second defence line is gone..the third defence line is the weakest but at the rate the ukrops are losing men they may not have enough forces to defend various places..

 

[Robert]

The troubling thing is British army want to cut numbers to 75k in a few years. Even in a conventional war, the Russians could walk in and take over within days.

I doubt it. They couldn't walk into Ukraine, while UK has much better aircraft, tanks and infantry, and Russia would have to get through Germany and France first. I don't believe they could. Even if NATO as a whole didn't get involved, Russia's conventional forces are simply not very good.

 

[cpleigh]

If you dont believe the report its your decision but the numbers to add up when compared to various other reports. Even the EU have confirmed over 100k Uktrops have been killed or are they lying too?

Or should I believe someone who said Russia has only 150 missiles left months ago?

Post the Russian figures from the same report...

The EU hasn't at all. Von Der Leyden said it in November, and was changed straight away and removed.

 

[Robert]

Their equipment are overrated. Their military is overrated. I am referring to Yankees. Their pampered troops may lose against North Korea if there are no airstrikes. Remember they lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

They are only relevant because of their nukes and fighter jets.

They didn't lose in Vietnam. They won every major battle. But their troops were hamstrung by the rules of engagement, which centred on NVA and Viet Cong killed instead of taking and holding territory. Eventually the peaceniks at home got tired of seeing more and more of their lads come home in boxes, and the war wound down.

As for Afghanistan, the forty nations of ISAF could have controlled that nation forever, but gave it up as a bad job.

 

[the Great Khan]

There is little money to pay contractors. Even Ben Wallace admitted the British Army is no longer regarded as a top tier force due to cuts over the years. As you would be aware a Eurofighter jet costs around £100 million each. It seems like false promises as when Ukraine accepts defeat the UK Gov can suggest they did everything they could have.

The troubling thing is British army want to cut numbers to 75k in a few years. Even in a conventional war, the Russians could walk in and take over within days.

I did want you opinion on how well the S400 (or does Russia now have ready the S500) would do against these type of jets?

The S400 is vulnerable against a foe that has an integrated network based air force. Even then its dangerous. Most experts seem to feel it is better to hit it with long range Cruise missiles like the Russians have been doing against the Ukrainians s300. Once its knocked out by stand off missiles you can make some in roads..but it is deadly..and a headache. Plus the Russians have their own version not the one they export..and you have to train against it..not an easy task. They have an integrated homogonous network..everything links together..the uk and us will never send any top of the line aircraft..imagine the headlines of a f35 gets smoked by an s400?

The effect on the share price would be crazy. Just remember lockheed Martin were slapping each others backsides when they heard we shot down ans su30..at best they may send some f16's from Poland or Norway but it will take ages..

My theory is they know its over...they are waiting for the eventual collapse of the final defence line and long retreat of the ukrops to western Ukraine. This will be portrayed as a heroic event and then negotiations will begin..a ceasefire is inevitable its just a matter of when..

On the other hand the Russians could completely screw it up get bogged down and then more nato equipment starts arriving with newly trained troops..can't see it but anything is possible..

 

[KingKhanWC]

The fact is if the numbers were wrong the Ukrainians would be in the crimea by now. According to some of Ukraine well wishes the Russians have lost 200k men. Now this could be true. However how quickly can they replenish and counter attack? We know they are using at least three proxies in wagner the chechens and the donbass militia..we also.know the donbass militia have taken lots of casualties and so have wagner..but they are all expendable. The full Russian army has been retrained and mobilised. Their economy has been Re engineered into a war economy. 40-50 tanks a month by conservative estimates are being churned out..thousands of rounds of ammunition..missiles..artillery shells...the ukrops say they are now outnumbered. They kill 20 Russians and they keep coming.

This is not going to end well...if the Russians take Bakhmut the second defence line is gone..the third defence line is the weakest but at the rate the ukrops are losing men they may not have enough forces to defend various places..

1/3 of Bahkmut has fallen, the rest is just a matter of time now.

Ukraine changed their rules, now 16 year old children are being drafted. There is a video showing a child being forced to leave his home and put in a back of a military vehicle, while his mother is in tears.

Who is obliged to register for the military?


• Persons of conscription age from 16 to 27 years;

• conscripts and reservists who have not reached the maximum age of being in the reserve;

• women with medical or pharmaceutical education;

• on request - women who have received an education in the field of professions related to military affairs.

https://visitukraine.today/blog/1390/military-accounting-abroad-new-duties-and-obligations

 

[Robert]

As per one of your previous posts, you initially supported American invasion of Iraq. You also supported American invasion of Afghanistan and nuking Japan in WW2 (reference to your post: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Quran-burning-protest&p=11743837#post11743837).

So, you are basically saying when America/NATO invades, it is okay. But, if Russia does it, it is bad.

Okay. Got it.

There is simply no point talking with you further. You deliberately misconstrue most points, and your understanding of history is lacking. So onto Ignore you go.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I doubt it. They couldn't walk into Ukraine, while UK has much better aircraft, tanks and infantry, and Russia would have to get through Germany and France first. I don't believe they could. Even if NATO as a whole didn't get involved, Russia's conventional forces are simply not very good.

UK has only 100 or so fighter jets which ready to go. If you want Germany and France to protect UK first then sure it would be more difficult but my example is if its only Russia V UK in a conventional war. Once the Russian troops land the British army are not capable of resisting. What may and will help them is the ordinary folk esp the ethnic minorities such as the Muslims. It would be ironic blacks and browns fighting against Russia for Ukraine when most Ukrainians are racist clowns.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Post the Russian figures from the same report...

The EU hasn't at all. Von Der Leyden said it in November, and was changed straight away and removed.

Because she embarrased herself by admitting it. The narrative which people like you fall for is Russia is still losing lol.

Even US generals have said over 100k Ukranian losses but they also said over 100k Russians. We dont know the Russian numbers but most analysts feels its far far less which makes sense.

Are you saying Russia is still losing this?

 

[the Great Khan]

I doubt it. They couldn't walk into Ukraine, while UK has much better aircraft, tanks and infantry, and Russia would have to get through Germany and France first. I don't believe they could. Even if NATO as a whole didn't get involved, Russia's conventional forces are simply not very good.

This is true..the uk is well protected by geography the English channel and the royal navy...the premeir service in the uk is royal navy and has always been so.

The British army is now an expeditionary force that is built around mobility and working with other forces..it makes perfect sense...Island nations should not require a massive army. A good high tech airforce a strong navy and a highly mobile tech networked army is all that's needed.

Also the uk is a nuclear armed country so its suicide for russia to invade the uk..which is why the fear of Russian invasion is over blown..