The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[daytrader]

Situation around Bakhmut ‘extremely tense’

• The Commander of the Ukrainian Ground Forces says the situation around Bakhmut is “extremely tense”.
• US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting officials from all five former Soviet republics.
• Moscow has accused the United States of preparing a “toxic chemicals” provocation in Ukraine.
• Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, a close ally of Russian leader Vladimir Putin, is due in Beijing to begin a three-day state visit.

Al-Jazeera

 

[daytrader]

Putin orders tightening of Ukraine border as drones hit Russia
One drone crashed 100 km from Moscow on Tuesday, according to the regional governor.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered officials to tighten control of the border with Ukraine after a spate of drone attacks that are creating a new challenge for Moscow a year after it invaded its neighbour.

One drone crashed on Tuesday just 100km (60 miles) southeast of the Russian capital Moscow, while two more were brought down in southern Russia, according to the defence ministry.

Authorities also closed the airspace over the northern city of St Petersburg in response to what some reports said was a drone, while several Russian television stations aired a missile attack warning that officials blamed on hacking.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...tening-of-ukraine-border-as-drones-hit-russia

 

[Robert]

Seriously, do you have any idea how much tougher most of the Russian politicians are compared to Putin? Compared to Medvedev for example, he is certainly more patient and measured.

Be careful with what you ask for.

Strange question. In a gangster state, the leader is the toughest and most ruthless of the lot.

I’m not asking for anything. Russian socialists are asking for international solidarity among socialist’s against Putin.

 

[daytrader]

The leaders of China and Belarus have expressed their "extreme interest" in a peaceful resolution in Ukraine.

Chinese President and Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko, a close ally of Russia's Vladimir Putin, issued the statement after talks in Beijing.

Mr Lukashenko said his country "fully supports" a Beijing plan for ending the war in Ukraine.

China announced a plan for peace talks last week, calling for the respect of national sovereignty.

 

[bones]

Strange question. In a gangster state, the leader is the toughest and most ruthless of the lot.

I’m not asking for anything. Russian socialists are asking for international solidarity among socialist’s against Putin.

You should do some reading that isn't from the lying MSM.

He has a 80% popularity at the moment. Most Russians think he is too soft.

 

[Robert]

You should do some reading that isn't from the lying MSM.

He has a 80% popularity at the moment. Most Russians think he is too soft.

That wasn’t “MSM” - a term used by conspiracy theorists and therefore unworthy of consideration.

You should stop reading Kremlin propaganda. Of course he is popular in a country where the news is managed by the state, the elections are rigged and any journalist who won’t toe the line is murdered.

 

[bones]

That wasn’t “MSM” - a term used by conspiracy theorists and therefore unworthy of consideration.

You should stop reading Kremlin propaganda. Of course he is popular in a country where the news is managed by the state, the elections are rigged and any journalist who won’t toe the line is murdered.

So you do refer to MSM for your information?

The elections are not rigged, provide evidence if you can. Here comes a BBC article in 3,2,1...

 

[Robert]

So you do refer to MSM for your information?

The elections are not rigged, provide evidence if you can. Here comes a BBC article in 3,2,1...

99.5% of Chechens voted for Putin in the last election. After he bombed Grozny. You don’t find that suspicious?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-chechnya-elections-idUSTRE7BK1CA20111221

Opposition parties cannot even register for election:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opini...raud-allegations-will-erode-putins-legitimacy

 

[MenInG]

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has told his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to "end this war of aggression" against Ukraine.

The remarks are the first Mr Blinken has made face to face to Mr Lavrov since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion more than a year ago.

The two met briefly on the sidelines of the G20 summit in India's capital Delhi on Thursday.

Mr Blinken also raised the case of Paul Whelan, an American detained in Russia.

A senior State Department official said the discussion in Delhi lasted less than 10 minutes - they spoke "on the move" said the Russian foreign ministry, downplaying the exchange.

"I told the foreign minister [Sergei Lavrov] what I and so many many others said last week at the United Nations, and what so many G20 foreign ministers said today - end this war of aggression, engage in meaningful diplomacy that can produce a just and lasting peace," Mr Blinken said at a briefing after the talks.

He said he also urged Russia to rejoin the New START nuclear arms control treaty, describing as "irresponsible" Moscow's recent decision to suspend its participation in the agreement.

Russia Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova confirmed that the meeting took place but gave no further details.

BBC

 

[KingKhanWC]

99.5% of Chechens voted for Putin in the last election. After he bombed Grozny. You don’t find that suspicious?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-chechnya-elections-idUSTRE7BK1CA20111221

Opposition parties cannot even register for election:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opini...raud-allegations-will-erode-putins-legitimacy

Thousands have fought in Ukraine, the Chechen forces are very loyal to Putin.

What you miss here is the Chechens were fighting the Soviets, the war before Putin came to power. The Chechens were armed by the US , which is not surprising. Putin made peace, now Grozny is a nice place and the people are living in decent conditions.

If you dont understand the context of history it will seem confusing.

Chechens did a great job of wiping out the Nazis in Mariupol.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Bakhmut on the brink of falling to the Russian Federation. Zelensky is a clown but his generals should allow their soldiers to surrender instead of being killed. Wagner group have been seriously impressive.

 

[Robert]

Thousands have fought in Ukraine, the Chechen forces are very loyal to Putin.

What you miss here is the Chechens were fighting the Soviets, the war before Putin came to power. The Chechens were armed by the US , which is not surprising. Putin made peace, now Grozny is a nice place and the people are living in decent conditions.

I’d be prepared to believe that if the result was 75% for Putin.

But 99.5% approval?

Seriously?

Isn’t it more parsimonious to assume that the election was rigged?

 

[Robert]

Bakhmut on the brink of falling to the Russian Federation. Zelensky is a clown but his generals should allow their soldiers to surrender instead of being killed. Wagner group have been seriously impressive.

So some Nazis are OK to you?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I’d be prepared to believe that if the result was 75% for Putin.

But 99.5% approval?

Seriously?

Isn’t it more parsimonious to assume that the election was rigged?

I'd say around 80%. Putin is very popular, its silly to argue this.

So some Nazis are OK to you?

Ive answered this before to you Robert. British army has more far right sympathisers than the Wagner group. Wagner unlike like the Azov, do not have Nazi symbols, do not adhere to the Nazi ideology and certainly do not celebrate Nazis with a special day and roads named after them.

As a Ukraine supporter surely you should be more concerned about the plight of the Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut? Have you seen the videos they have been putting out themselves?

 

[Robert]

I'd say around 80%. Putin is very popular, its silly to argue this.

Ive answered this before to you Robert. British army has more far right sympathisers than the Wagner group. Wagner unlike like the Azov, do not have Nazi symbols, do not adhere to the Nazi ideology and certainly do not celebrate Nazis with a special day and roads named after them.

As an Ukraine supporter surely you should be more concerned about the plight of the Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut? Have you seen the videos they have been putting out themselves?

No, not seen those. I think I’d prefer to go fighting for my homeland and my people. But courage is a finite resource - were I under shellfire for a year I might not have anything left.

Here’s a non-MSM source saying that the Russian forces have a Nazi problem too:

https://youtu.be/OlIyNXWxy14

 

[KingKhanWC]

I’d be prepared to believe that if the result was 75% for Putin.

But 99.5% approval?

Seriously?

Isn’t it more parsimonious to assume that the election was rigged?

So some Nazis are OK to you?

No, not seen those. I think I’d prefer to go fighting for my homeland and my people. But courage is a finite resource - were I under shellfire for a year I might not have anything left.

Here’s a non-MSM source saying that the Russian forces have a Nazi problem too:

https://youtu.be/OlIyNXWxy14

I dont need to watch a video, as I've looked into this in detail.

You should and so should all Ukraine supporters esp those sitting in comfort on their sofas drinking tea. The soliders are saying openly they will refuse orders from Zelensky. They are openly saying they are being sent to their deaths with little support. Yet we have the Nato/US/UK disgusting leaders and their media cheerleading.

Ukraine again needs to make a peace deal. They should learn from history , the west are not the good guys, they use lands, people and nations for their own benefit and will leave them once no longer needed.

 

[Technics 1210]

99.5% of the vote - rigged
80% of the vote - rigged
51% of the vote [Brexit] - rigged.

There is absolutely no reason to discuss democracy with Liberals who only favour democracy when the result suites them.

 

[sweep_shot]

99.5% of the vote - rigged
80% of the vote - rigged
51% of the vote [Brexit] - rigged.

There is absolutely no reason to discuss democracy with Liberals who only favour democracy when the result suites them.

Radical liberals are selective when it comes to democracy.

If it doesn't go there way, it is rigged (according to them).

 

[captain.hansolo]

99.5% of the vote - rigged
80% of the vote - rigged
51% of the vote [Brexit] - rigged.

There is absolutely no reason to discuss democracy with Liberals who only favour democracy when the result suites them.

no credible news outlet claimed that the brexit vote was rigged. nor was donald's election in 2016. both were unexpected events due to the polling and the prognosticating that followed.

you can either choose to understand how things work, or you can continue to be yourself. i cant force you to be brighter.

 

[Robert]

I dont need to watch a video, as I've looked into this in detail.

You should and so should all Ukraine supporters esp those sitting in comfort on their sofas drinking tea. The soliders are saying openly they will refuse orders from Zelensky. They are openly saying they are being sent to their deaths with little support. Yet we have the Nato/US/UK disgusting leaders and their media cheerleading.

Ukraine again needs to make a peace deal. They should learn from history , the west are not the good guys, they use lands, people and nations for their own benefit and will leave them once no longer needed.

You’re obfuscating.

You’re avoiding the point about rigged elections in Russia. How can a 99.5% poll be credible? Or that opposition parties cannot register?

Also the point about the existence of Russian far right soldiers.

 

[the Great Khan]

And as I predicted. Slowly but surely the thread is losing steam. Bakhmut is about to fall. The second defence line is gone. Soon the donbass will be secured through more hard fighting but it will be secured.

Slowly but surely whats left of the ukrops are beginning to buckle. And the bulk of the invasion force hasn't even moved in yet .

 

[KingKhanWC]

You’re obfuscating.

You’re avoiding the point about rigged elections in Russia. How can a 99.5% poll be credible? Or that opposition parties cannot register?

Also the point about the existence of Russian far right soldiers.

Irrelevant as Putin has a strong majority and its a waste of time debating this , esp while Ukraine is on the brink. Again more Brits in the armed forces are far right but thats ok with you.

Lets stick to the current events which you seem to be shying or deflecting from.

Bakhmut has pretty much fallen. Do you still believe Russia is losing this war?

 

[MenInG]

So what will need to happen for this war to stop?

 

[KingKhanWC]

And as I predicted. Slowly but surely the thread is losing steam. Bakhmut is about to fall. The second defence line is gone. Soon the donbass will be secured through more hard fighting but it will be secured.

Slowly but surely whats left of the ukrops are beginning to buckle. And the bulk of the invasion force hasn't even moved in yet .

The capture of Bakhmut is a modern day legendary victory. Its estimated thousands of Ukrainian troops have perished over months attempting to hold the town. Ukrainians have shown a lot of bravery but sadly died for NOTHING, or for NATO.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So what will need to happen for this war to stop?

The most important question.

Here are the options imo.

1. Ukraine makes a peace deal now they are being badly beaten.

2. Ukraine continues to fight, pushed by Nato. So Russia sends in its huge force and take out Kyiv, the war is over then.

3. Ukraine or Nato do something awful. le. Hit Russian nuclear reactors inside Russia or a false flag nuclear attack, leading to a huge war , possibly ending in nuclear disaster for the planet.

4. NATO demand an end - not likely.

 

[captain.hansolo]

So what will need to happen for this war to stop?

It’s easier to answer the question ‘at what cost would this war continue?’

We are dealing with a tyrant who will not face any repercussions of his decisions and is a disinterested entity with regards to the human capital cost. If 200k Russians die, Putin would send another 200k, and if they were to die, another 200k. Much like the monarchs from WW1, the human cost to Putin is irrelevant even if it is for minor gains. Thus Russia is unlikely to offer a ceasefire.

Furthermore, if where to pause, it would be inconsistent with their hegemonic ambitions: they have an eye on Moldova and Belarus. Buoyed, they may want to annex Georgia and any other non nato country.

Ukraine is on borrowed time. The United States may not be inclined to support it further if this becomes a wedge issue during the presidential election. Britain and Poland may continue to support Ukraine with German support being tepid the very most.

A likely outcome would be a surge towards the end of summer to help Ukraine make some inroads into Crimea, or Donbas. If that surge is successful, we may see a greater willing ness to accept the lost territory from Ukraine as they will have the satisfaction of finishing on a high.

The problem is that we will likely be right back to square 1 in a few years. Under a new, false pretext, Putin may restart this war.

And then there is the most favorable outcome for Ukraine: Putin succumbs to some illness and dies.

 

[Robert]

Irrelevant as Putin has a strong majority and its a waste of time debating this , esp while Ukraine is on the brink. Again more Brits in the armed forces are far right but thats ok with you.

Lets stick to the current events which you seem to be shying or deflecting from.

Bakhmut has pretty much fallen. Do you still believe Russia is losing this war?

You think it is irrelevant that Russian elections are rigged. I’m sad about that.

You don’t know how many people in HMAF are far right. Given that so many service people are of colour and many are openly gay, The uniformed services have rigorous anti discrimination policies as they are as bound by the Equality Act 2010 as any other employer.

Why ever would you think I am OK with one single British soldier holding fascist views?

I don’t know if Russia are losing but I no longer think it likely that they can win. They’ll have to do it soon before those hundred Leopard II MBTs arrive.

 

[mazkhan]

The capture of Bakhmut is a modern day legendary victory. Its estimated thousands of Ukrainian troops have perished over months attempting to hold the town. Ukrainians have shown a lot of bravery but sadly died for NOTHING, or for NATO.

And thousands of russians have perished they forced criminals and prisoners to the front lines like lambs to the slaughter so ukrainian positions can be shown up and hit .

Obviously it's a + for russia because it got rid of lodes of prisoners it needs to feed in jail .
But then again russian prisons aren't any fun so those prisoners were doomed either way.

Just shows how russia thinks of its people and people were deluded these people were gonna strike us a favourable deal for oil and gas with potty khan when it doesn't even give a rats asse about its own people look at russian history and its one of brutality of its own people and people it conquered in Asia whole nations were sent to gulags and massacred .

 

[bones]

It’s easier to answer the question ‘at what cost would this war continue?’

We are dealing with a tyrant who will not face any repercussions of his decisions and is a disinterested entity with regards to the human capital cost. If 200k Russians die, Putin would send another 200k, and if they were to die, another 200k. Much like the monarchs from WW1, the human cost to Putin is irrelevant even if it is for minor gains. Thus Russia is unlikely to offer a ceasefire.

Furthermore, if where to pause, it would be inconsistent with their hegemonic ambitions: they have an eye on Moldova and Belarus. Buoyed, they may want to annex Georgia and any other non nato country.

Ukraine is on borrowed time. The United States may not be inclined to support it further if this becomes a wedge issue during the presidential election. Britain and Poland may continue to support Ukraine with German support being tepid the very most.

A likely outcome would be a surge towards the end of summer to help Ukraine make some inroads into Crimea, or Donbas. If that surge is successful, we may see a greater willing ness to accept the lost territory from Ukraine as they will have the satisfaction of finishing on a high.

The problem is that we will likely be right back to square 1 in a few years. Under a new, false pretext, Putin may restart this war.

And then there is the most favorable outcome for Ukraine: Putin succumbs to some illness and dies.

Here is exhibit A of propaganda dripping from western MSM.

The Ukrainians are being bled dry in Bakhmut and other areas of the frontline. They are scrambling around for weapons and ammunition. They are recruiting women, kids and old men. But by the summer they will launch offensives in Crimea and occupied Donbas?

How would they do this? Using western wonder weapons they neither have the training or logistics with? Or perhaps you think the locals would turn on the very people who they welcomed with open arms.

Then there’s the comment about Russian soldiers. You think the Russians are throwing men into the grinder? Have you not been paying attention? The Russians are withdrawing when they see any cauldron. The Ukrainians are sending men to die - just look at Bakhmut.

 

[bones]

https://youtu.be/YyBkGpKyzAU

Look at this clown. Says Russians suffering 7:1 losses. If that was the case why are they about to take Bakhmut?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You think it is irrelevant that Russian elections are rigged. I’m sad about that.

You don’t know how many people in HMAF are far right. Given that so many service people are of colour and many are openly gay, The uniformed services have rigorous anti discrimination policies as they are as bound by the Equality Act 2010 as any other employer.

Why ever would you think I am OK with one single British soldier holding fascist views?

I don’t know if Russia are losing but I no longer think it likely that they can win. They’ll have to do it soon before those hundred Leopard II MBTs arrive.

I think its irrelevant to any result, Putin is very popular.

Ive met plenty of these army clowns who are racist. The numbers will tell you as UK forces have more people so more far right than Wagner.

I never suggested you are.

Leopard tanks will be destroyed, they will make no difference. Russia will be victorious in glory. Its not a bad thing..firstly no nuclear war and a balance of power, Nato no longer the big dogs, a pit bull arrived.

 

[KingKhanWC]

And thousands of russians have perished they forced criminals and prisoners to the front lines like lambs to the slaughter so ukrainian positions can be shown up and hit .

Obviously it's a + for russia because it got rid of lodes of prisoners it needs to feed in jail .
But then again russian prisons aren't any fun so those prisoners were doomed either way.

Just shows how russia thinks of its people and people were deluded these people were gonna strike us a favourable deal for oil and gas with potty khan when it doesn't even give a rats asse about its own people look at russian history and its one of brutality of its own people and people it conquered in Asia whole nations were sent to gulags and massacred .

Read the thread, the est number of dead from various sources suggest around 20k Russians and around 150k Ukranians.

The rest of your post is crying for no reason.

 

[SalimBhai]

Russians dead according too many sources close to 200k, not 20k
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html

https://www.grid.news/story/global/...and-wounded-in-ukraine-is-approaching-200000/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...killed-or-wounded-in-ukraine/?sh=eb685b42eecb

 

[bones]

Russians dead according too many sources close to 200k, not 20k
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html

https://www.grid.news/story/global/...and-wounded-in-ukraine-is-approaching-200000/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...killed-or-wounded-in-ukraine/?sh=eb685b42eecb

Exhibit B of propaganda.

If even half that number were killed this would have been over a long time ago.

 

[Technics 1210]

Exhibit C of propaganda (liberals citing MSM)

1. Ukraine war will be over in 3 months (a year ago).
2. Russia has run out of missiles.
3. Putin has cancer.

 

[Robert]

It’s easier to answer the question ‘at what cost would this war continue?’

We are dealing with a tyrant who will not face any repercussions of his decisions and is a disinterested entity with regards to the human capital cost. If 200k Russians die, Putin would send another 200k, and if they were to die, another 200k. Much like the monarchs from WW1, the human cost to Putin is irrelevant even if it is for minor gains. Thus Russia is unlikely to offer a ceasefire.

Furthermore, if where to pause, it would be inconsistent with their hegemonic ambitions: they have an eye on Moldova and Belarus. Buoyed, they may want to annex Georgia and any other non nato country.

Ukraine is on borrowed time. The United States may not be inclined to support it further if this becomes a wedge issue during the presidential election. Britain and Poland may continue to support Ukraine with German support being tepid the very most.

A likely outcome would be a surge towards the end of summer to help Ukraine make some inroads into Crimea, or Donbas. If that surge is successful, we may see a greater willing ness to accept the lost territory from Ukraine as they will have the satisfaction of finishing on a high.

The problem is that we will likely be right back to square 1 in a few years. Under a new, false pretext, Putin may restart this war.

And then there is the most favorable outcome for Ukraine: Putin succumbs to some illness and dies.

Smart post.

Obviously Putin wants Trump 24 because Trump is in his pocket. Compare the pictures of Obama showing strong overbearing body language with Putin, while Trump looks like a submissive little dog. Should Trump become POTUS then he will withdraw support, then Ukraine will fall and become a Russian satrap state again. Europe alone doesn’t have the military budget to keep Ukraine in the war.

 

[Robert]

I think its irrelevant to any result, Putin is very popular.

Ive met plenty of these army clowns who are racist. The numbers will tell you as UK forces have more people so more far right than Wagner.

I never suggested you are.

Leopard tanks will be destroyed, they will make no difference. Russia will be victorious in glory. Its not a bad thing..firstly no nuclear war and a balance of power, Nato no longer the big dogs, a pit bull arrived.

You do suggest I am. Please read your own posts:
“Again more Brits in the armed forces are far right but thats ok with you.”

I have never met a racist British serviceman - though most of my work colleagues were ex-officers and senior NCOs. Perhaps you met uneducated squaddies, but any holding racist or homophobic views wouldn’t progress up the ranks these days.

Of course a hundred well-maintained fourth-generation MBTs will make a difference compared to the ex-Soviet junk the Ukrainians have been driving.

It’s shocking to me that you would side with an imperialist despot over a democracy. Be consistent and apply the same values you do regarding USA/UK toppling the democratic Mossadeq regime in 1953.

 

[Robert]

Russians dead according too many sources close to 200k, not 20k
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html

https://www.grid.news/story/global/...and-wounded-in-ukraine-is-approaching-200000/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...killed-or-wounded-in-ukraine/?sh=eb685b42eecb

I believe that. The US Army doctrine for 150 years is not to attack entrenched positions with less that a 3:1 numerical advantage because you’re going to lose half your attacking force.

Russia has never had any problems accepting huge losses. Look at how little the lives of their own soldiers meant to them in WW2. They threw away 20 million and kept advancing.They can lose 200K no problem and just conscript another 200K or buy mercenaries from the deep oligarch pockets.

But as Russian news is managed, her people won’t know until more and more families have to bury their sons.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You do suggest I am. Please read your own posts:
“Again more Brits in the armed forces are far right but thats ok with you.”

I have never met a racist British serviceman - though most of my work colleagues were ex-officers and senior NCOs. Perhaps you met uneducated squaddies, but any holding racist or homophobic views wouldn’t progress up the ranks these days.

Of course a hundred well-maintained fourth-generation MBTs will make a difference compared to the ex-Soviet junk the Ukrainians have been driving.

It’s shocking to me that you would side with an imperialist despot over a democracy. Be consistent and apply the same values you do regarding USA/UK toppling the democratic Mossadeq regime in 1953.

You should try keeping up with the news Robert.

Insider threat warning as rising number of far-right extremists flagged in Britain’s armed forces

Neo-Nazis, white nationalists and anti-Muslim radicals make up the largest known group of extremists in the British army, navy and Royal Air Force.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-nazis-far-right-extremism-b2191499.html

Putin is no despot, this is lame western thinking.

Putin is on the right side of history, I speak the truth as a I see it even against the country I live in or even against my own family if need be.

Putin is a liberator, he saved the Russian speakers in the East. Read back in this thread already been explained but it seems you ignore or dont read which is against your preconceived ideas.

Again, its better for the world to have a balance of power. Russia, China and others are making this happen now.

 

[Robert]

You should try keeping up with the news Robert.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-nazis-far-right-extremism-b2191499.html

Putin is no despot, this is lame western thinking.

Putin is on the right side of history, I speak the truth as a I see it even against the country I live in or even against my own family if need be.

Putin is a liberator, he saved the Russian speakers in the East. Read back in this thread already been explained but it seems you ignore or dont read which is against your preconceived ideas.

Again, it’s better for the world to have a balance of power. Russia, China and others are making this happen now.

Good article, but I suspect you haven’t read it. I did. It talks of people who have either been kicked out of the military for far right views, or failed in their applications to join. Which suggests that the MoD’s anti radicalisation procedures are working.

It also mentions ten Prevent referrals out of 250,000 servicepeople.

So it doesn’t support your hypothesis that the HMAF are somehow rotted out by the far right, unlike the Wagner Group. Will you therefore accept that your HMAF strawman has failed?

Then you go on to tell me that black is white, regarding the leader of a nation with no free and fair elections, no press freedom, and whose dissenting voices fall out of high windows.

The Russian speakers in the East would be safe in Ukraine had Putin not fomented their rebellion in 2014, and armed them against their democratically elected government.

This is his MO. He stirs up trouble between factions who were at peace, starts civil violence, and then invades under the pretext of saving Russian speakers. See South Ossetia for a precedent.

This would have happened in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia too but they had the brains to join NATO, and EU too so can continue to enjoy safety, liberal democracy and prosperity.

His actions have strengthened his enemies as now Sweden and Finland want to join NATO too. So he will have brought NATO to another thousand miles of Russia’s border.

 

[Robert]

The whole bakhmut frontline could collapse if wagner don't get their supplies

That's from the head of the organisation itself he's accusing the head of armed forces of treason.

In one area 2 units of Russian army are refusing to attack a hilltop.

And here we have the resident trolls telling us the fight is going to plan.

Once summer comes and ukraine gets its heavy weapons I fully expect them to counter attack a lot of their units are in west receiving the training at top Level.

Of course NATO MBTs are going to go through Russian tanks like a scythe through grass. They are extremely robust, have better cannon, and much better detectors, gun stabilisers and optics. They'll be killing T-80s and T-90s that don't see them, and can't pierce them at long range even if they do. I expect the Ukrainians to knock out five Russian tanks for every loss, like Tigers vs T-34s in WW2.

But eventually sheer numbers of the inferior Russian tanks will swarm on the modern MBTs and overcome them, also like in WW2.

Another point is that while the Leopards and Challengers are easy to maintain, the Abrams is over-engineered and the Ukrainians won't have the training and field workshops to keep them running.

 

[Robert]

The Wagner Group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin says "ammunition hunger" may result in the entire Bakhmut front collapsing, and his soldiers think Moscow is setting them up as scapegoats:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/wagner-bakhmut-ukraine-putin-war-b2294790.html

 

[the Great Khan]

Of course NATO MBTs are going to go through Russian tanks like a scythe through grass. They are extremely robust, have better cannon, and much better detectors, gun stabilisers and optics. They'll be killing T-80s and T-90s that don't see them, and can't pierce them at long range even if they do. I expect the Ukrainians to knock out five Russian tanks for every loss, like Tigers vs T-34s in WW2.

But eventually sheer numbers of the inferior Russian tanks will swarm on the modern MBTs and overcome them, also like in WW2.

Another point is that while the Leopards and Challengers are easy to maintain, the Abrams is over-engineered and the Ukrainians won't have the training and field workshops to keep them running.

That's speculation at the moment. The leopard 2 has not been tested in combat yet. We will see how it performs. It will be outnunbered by t90's and will also have to face air launched atgm. We know the kornet had success against western tanks in Syria and in south lebanon. We will see how the new version deals with these western tanks.

Many will be targeted by artillery and air assets. This isnt ww2. Although the performance of both sides makes it seem that way. My suspicion is that the next phase will include more combined arms network centric warfare..the Russians don't care about casualties as much as the west so are prepared to lose tanks as long as they can knock out ukrops ones. Hence why more t62s are coming out of storage. We know armatas terminators and t90sm are coming into the field but alot of fire support and reconnisance will be done by older models.

The battle for kharkiv and odessa is where these will most likely see action may khramatosk (excuse my spelling)..even now Putin is holding back and there is disquiet amongst other hardliners about his approach. I think we will start see more diplomacy in the summer. Once the donbass falls. Putin has clearly said he will gonas far as the HIMARs range so that's about 150km. That is it. We really need a ceasefire..ukrops should retreat back out of the donbass regroup and open negotiations..

 

[Robert]

That's speculation at the moment. The leopard 2 has not been tested in combat yet. We will see how it performs. It will be outnunbered by t90's and will also have to face air launched atgm. We know the kornet had success against western tanks in Syria and in south lebanon. We will see how the new version deals with these western tanks.

Many will be targeted by artillery and air assets. This isnt ww2. Although the performance of both sides makes it seem that way. My suspicion is that the next phase will include more combined arms network centric warfare..the Russians don't care about casualties as much as the west so are prepared to lose tanks as long as they can knock out ukrops ones. Hence why more t62s are coming out of storage. We know armatas terminators and t90sm are coming into the field but alot of fire support and reconnisance will be done by older models.

The battle for kharkiv and odessa is where these will most likely see action may khramatosk (excuse my spelling)..even now Putin is holding back and there is disquiet amongst other hardliners about his approach. I think we will start see more diplomacy in the summer. Once the donbass falls. Putin has clearly said he will gonas far as the HIMARs range so that's about 150km. That is it. We really need a ceasefire..ukrops should retreat back out of the donbass regroup and open negotiations..

The Leopards are comparable to the Abrams and Challengers which took no losses at all in Iraq.

Of course they were crewed by professional soldiers not Ukrainian conscripts, and had massive air support. I’m not claiming that they are invincible, just very strong.

Is the Armata real? So much Russian stuff is basically unusable due to bad maintenance and corruption in procurement. There might be a few operational, but I would have them on the line facing some potential flashpoint with NATO.

 

[mazkhan]

According to a transcript of the meeting, published on the website of the presidential administration Putin said: “Long! Too long. The companies have to understand their perspectives, their orders. They have to hire the workforce, they have to keep or increase manufacturing capacities, understand? They have to know how many [aircraft] the military is going to order, how many civilian aircraft are going to be ordered. Some companies don’t even have orders for 2023.”

A short back-and-forth then ensued, with Manturov reiterating that the order numbers are laid out and Putin repeating that the orders have not yet been signed.

“Denis Valentinovich, [you say that] everything is laid out, but there are no contracts. I say this again. Let’s [discuss that] later, let’s finish the meeting now. Why are we bickering here? I know that the companies don’t have orders, the directors told me. Really, why are you fooling about? When will we have the contracts? That’s what I am talking about. The directors of the companies are telling me: there are no contracts. And it’s all ‘laid out’ for you,” Putin continued.

Responding to this, Manturov reiterated that the numbers are known and technical certificates, required to procure funding for the orders, will be prepared within the next quarter of 2023.

“Do it in a month, I am asking you. In a month, everything have to be done. A quarter? What are we talking about? Don’t we understand what conditions are we living in? I am asking you to do it within a month. Clear?” Putin said.

After Manturov responded that he and his colleagues are going to “try doing everything they can” Putin interrupted him once again, saying: “Don’t try doing everything you can, just do it, please.”

 

[MenInG]

The head of Russia's Wagner private army says it is not getting the ammunition it needs from Moscow, as it seeks to gain control of Bakhmut.

The eastern city has seen months of intense fighting, as Wagner and regular Russian troops try to seize it.

But Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin says his army's lack of ammunition could be "ordinary bureaucracy or a betrayal".

Ukraine's president and military commanders have agreed to strengthen their defence of Bakhmut.

Russia has appeared determined to capture the city for months, but many analysts say it has become a symbolic prize in the war and has little strategic value.

An apparent rivalry between the mercenaries and the regular Russian army seems to have intensified in recent weeks, and this is not the first time Mr Prigozhin has accused the Russian defence ministry of withholding the ammunition it needs.

In a social media post on Sunday, Mr Prigozhin said documents had been signed on 22 February, with ammunition expected to be sent to Bakhmut the next day.

BBC

 

[the Great Khan]

The Leopards are comparable to the Abrams and Challengers which took no losses at all in Iraq.

Of course they were crewed by professional soldiers not Ukrainian conscripts, and had massive air support. I’m not claiming that they are invincible, just very strong.

Is the Armata real? So much Russian stuff is basically unusable due to bad maintenance and corruption in procurement. There might be a few operational, but I would have them on the line facing some potential flashpoint with NATO.

Yes its real. Whether it can fight I dont know.

Iraq was many years ago and the M1's did take some losses. Also you were mostly targeted by ieds not full on modern atgms. The Israeli faced the kornet in 2006 and their merkavas did face losses. The leopard 1 was decimated in Syria and the turks were very unhappy at its performance but again that was an old tank..

By the time the Challengers arrive it will be too late.

 

[the Great Khan]

Here is an article..

My mistake they were leopard 2 in Syria

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-tank-syria-was-beaten-badly-battle-why-78441

 

[captain.hansolo]

Here is an article..

My mistake they were leopard 2 in Syria

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-tank-syria-was-beaten-badly-battle-why-78441

Did you read the article? I suspect you did not.

For context these were nearly 20 year old Leopard 2 tanks that had not been upgraded since the early 2000s, and they fell victim to ambush. From the article:

“ Undoubtedly, the manner in which the Turkish Army employed the German tanks likely contributed to the losses. Rather than using them in a combined arms force alongside mutually supporting infantry, they were deployed to the rear as long-range fire-support weapons while Turkish-allied Syrian militias stiffened with Turkish special forces led the assaults. Isolated on exposed firing positions without adequate nearby infantry to form a good defensive perimeter, the Turkish Leopards were vulnerable to ambushes. The same poor tactics have led to the loss of numerous Saudi Abrams tanks in Yemen, as you can see in this video.”

That deflates your attempt at propaganda. At times the fault is not in the weapon it’s in the person who wields it.

 

[Robert]

Yes its real. Whether it can fight I dont know.

Iraq was many years ago and the M1's did take some losses. Also you were mostly targeted by ieds not full on modern atgms. The Israeli faced the kornet in 2006 and their merkavas did face losses. The leopard 1 was decimated in Syria and the turks were very unhappy at its performance but again that was an old tank..

By the time the Challengers arrive it will be too late.

The Abrams took losses from IEDs but none were lost to Iraqi tanks.

 

[captain.hansolo]

Bakhmut on the brink of falling to the Russian Federation. Zelensky is a clown but his generals should allow their soldiers to surrender instead of being killed. Wagner group have been seriously impressive.

its funny how you post a video with a buffoon talking some silly talking point, and fail to post the video the same channel posted minutes earlier...

of course, this would be 'main stream media' propaganda, but not when you can find a video of the far from unbiased russian spokesperson from the same source.

your gullibility was baffling, now it is just amusing. i see that in another message you called putin a liberator. my man you better be getting paid for this shilling.

 

[the Great Khan]

Did you read the article? I suspect you did not.

For context these were nearly 20 year old Leopard 2 tanks that had not been upgraded since the early 2000s, and they fell victim to ambush. From the article:

“ Undoubtedly, the manner in which the Turkish Army employed the German tanks likely contributed to the losses. Rather than using them in a combined arms force alongside mutually supporting infantry, they were deployed to the rear as long-range fire-support weapons while Turkish-allied Syrian militias stiffened with Turkish special forces led the assaults. Isolated on exposed firing positions without adequate nearby infantry to form a good defensive perimeter, the Turkish Leopards were vulnerable to ambushes. The same poor tactics have led to the loss of numerous Saudi Abrams tanks in Yemen, as you can see in this video.”

That deflates your attempt at propaganda. At times the fault is not in the weapon it’s in the person who wields it.

Of course I read it.
Do you think Ukrainians are getting brand new leopards? The versions they are getting are slightly better but may still have similar flaws. They will also be facing combined arms warfare and have not trained long enough themselves. Its entirely logical that they may at times deployment them like the turks did.

Also the missiles that they will face are the latest generation not the older ones that ISIS and the kurds used.

The purpose of the article is to show you that there is no such thing as a super weapon that will send zelensky to Moscow.

With regards tk propaganda I couldn't care less about Europe war. I am here for my own interest around the military aspect and I try sometimes failing to stay out of the wider discussion.

But if your gonna come out with silly statements like Russia is running out of missiles then yes I will comment.

 

[the Great Khan]

The Abrams took losses from IEDs but none were lost to Iraqi tanks.

They took losses from atgms in both Iraq and yemen

 

[Robert]

They took losses from atgms in both Iraq and yemen

Come again? What’s atgms? Air to ground missiles?

Who operates the Abrams in Yemen out of interest?

 

[Robert]

Don't insult my intelligence child. Of course I read it.
Do you think Ukrainians are getting brand new leopards? The versions they are getting are slightly better but may still have similar flaws. They will also be facing combined arms warfare and have not trained long enough themselves. Its entirely logical that they may at times deployment them like the turks did.

Also the missiles that they will face are the latest generation not the older ones that ISIS and the kurds used.

The purpose of the article is to show you that there is no such thing as a super weapon that will send zelensky to Moscow.

With regards tk propaganda I couldn't care less about Europe war. I am here for mybown interest around the militar aspect and Intry sometimes failing to stay out of the wider discussion.

But if you’re gonna come out with silly statements like Russia is running out of missiles then yes I will comment.

There is evidence that they are starting to use AAMs instead of ASMs to attack ground targets. Which would suggest a shortage of the latter.

Then there are the Wagner Group leader comments about ammunition shortages.

 

[the Great Khan]

its funny how you post a video with a buffoon talking some silly talking point, and fail to post the video the same channel posted minutes earlier...

of course, this would be 'main stream media' propaganda, but not when you can find a video of the far from unbiased russian spokesperson from the same source.

your gullibility was baffling, now it is just amusing. i see that in another message you called putin a liberator. my man you better be getting paid for this shilling.

From the point of view of the Russian speakers of Ukraine especially those in the donbass then he is not wrong.

The west has a habit of portraying themselves as the good guys hence our other thread where we debate this in detail. You are welcome to join that discussion.

With regards to the above the head of PMC knows he is expendable. The whole of wagner is. This is Russian politics on the battlefield. Are there problems of course there are. There were in Afghanistan and in Iraq but you didn't get videos like this.

The US hasn't fought an enemy like Ukraine. Its the equivalent of the US fighting texas that is supported by the global south. Thus the Russians will face more such difficulties. But the burn rate for Ukraine is astronomical. And according to Jens Stotenberg they will run out of artillery ammunition in the summer if the west doesn't do something about it...

 

[the Great Khan]

There is evidence that they are starting to use AAMs instead of ASMs to attack ground targets. Which would suggest a shortage of the latter.

Then there are the Wagner Group leader comments about ammunition shortages.

There will be more such reports. And yet they carry on. They said they had run out of Kalibr in June. Yet...

We will see burnt out Russian tanks and cheering Ukrainians and yet they will carry on and cities will fall..we will hear of cities lacking strategic value yet they will fall and Ukraine will burn..

What we don't hear is calls for a ceasefire and for both sides to sit down. What we don't hear is calls for both sides to deescalate and come to the table. When settlers burn Palestinian homes we hear about both sides. When India bombs Pakistan we hear about both sides. When Yemeny children are murdered we hear about both sides. Yet in this war for some reason we only hear that Ukraine is stoic and brave. They are winning and Putin is dying. We hear the Russians are running out of ammunition. That Bakhmut will never fall. We hear that Challengers will smashed the Russian lines all the way to Moscow.

We hear how the Ukrainians are good refugees and asylum seekers while the Afghans iraqis Syrian and Pakistanis are bad refugees who want to rape white women.

And yet this war continues and ukraine is now a failed rump state. Sacrificed by the west to weaken Russia. But the west us going to fail it is written. Just like Asad was going to win. That was written too. The Russian Armed forces will not be the same after this war. NATO woke up the bear and from now on they will be facing an increasingly belligerent global south.

 

[Robert]

From the point of view of the Russian speakers of Ukraine especially those in the donbass then he is not wrong.

The west has a habit of portraying themselves as the good guys hence our other thread where we debate this in detail. You are welcome to join that discussion.

With regards to the above the head of PMC knows he is expendable. The whole of wagner is. This is Russian politics on the battlefield. Are there problems of course there are. There were in Afghanistan and in Iraq but you didn't get videos like this.

The US hasn't fought an enemy like Ukraine.the equivalent of the US fighting texas that is supported by the global south. Thus the Russians will face more such difficulties. But the burn rate for Ukraine is astronomical. And according to Jens Stotenberg they will run out of artillery ammunition in the summer if the west doesn't do something about it...

Texas military would get flattened in short order by the rest of USA. If other States helped TX, then you’d have Civil War Two.

Holding Texas would be more of a problem as a partisan would be behind every tree and rock with a rifle, continually sniping soldiers and USA collaborators.

 

[Robert]

There will be more such reports. And yet they carry on. They said they had run out of Kalibr in June. Yet...

We will see burnt out Russian tanks and cheering Ukrainians and yet they will carry on and cities will fall..we will hear of cities lacking strategic value yet they will fall and Ukraine will burn..

What we don't hear is calls for a ceasefire and for both sides to sit down. What we don't hear is calls for both sides to deescalate and come to the table. When settlers burn Palestinian homes we hear about both sides. When India bombs Pakistan we hear about both sides. When Yemeny children are murdered we hear about both sides. Yet in this war for some reason we only hear that Ukraine is stoic and brave. They are winning and Putin is dying. We hear the Russians are running out of ammunition. That Bakhmut will never fall. We hear that Challengers will smashed the Russian lines all the way to Moscow.

We hear how the Ukrainians are good refugees and asylum seekers while the Afghans iraqis Syrian and Pakistanis are bad refugees who want to rape white women.

And yet this war continues and ukraine is now a failed rump state. Sacrificed by the west to weaken Russia. But the west us going to fail it is written. Just like Asad was going to win. That was written too. The Russian Armed forces will not be the same after this war. NATO woke up the bear and from now on they will be facing an increasingly belligerent global south.

Because Putin is an existential threat to European democracy. Probing our military and cyber defences, testing our faith in our institutions with his propaganda, nibbling off territory that was part of USSR.

I have been saying this is n PP for the past years, and have been proven right.

It’s not about ”waking up the bear”. It’s about one man.

“Global south” - South America and Africa? They aren’t a threat to anyone. Indeed they are being economically subordinated to Beijing. China is the big opponent for the West over the next hundred years. Russia has a tenth of their GDP and will become China’s client state.

 

[the Great Khan]

Because Putin is an existential threat to European democracy. Probing our military and cyber defences, testing our faith in our institutions with his propaganda, nibbling off territory that was part of USSR.

I have been saying this is n PP for the past years, and have been proven right.

It’s not about ”waking up the bear”. It’s about one man.

“Global south” - South America and Africa? They aren’t a threat to anyone. Indeed they are being economically subordinated to Beijing. China is the big opponent for the West over the next hundred years. Russia has a tenth of their GDP and will become China’s client state.

The west sees everyone as an opponent that needs to be crushed if it doesn't do want they want. We as Pakistanis know this.

 

[bones]

Because Putin is an existential threat to European democracy. Probing our military and cyber defences, testing our faith in our institutions with his propaganda, nibbling off territory that was part of USSR.

I have been saying this is n PP for the past years, and have been proven right.

It’s not about ”waking up the bear”. It’s about one man.

“Global south” - South America and Africa? They aren’t a threat to anyone. Indeed they are being economically subordinated to Beijing. China is the big opponent for the West over the next hundred years. Russia has a tenth of their GDP and will become China’s client state.

Sometimes it's not worth wasting time on posters like this - I don't even know why I'm bothering.

NATO has been planting bases all over the world, all around Russia pointing their guns at Russia and then started barking when Russia said enough.

So it's ok for Europe to be economically subordinated to the US but it's a problem if others lean to China?

Do you see how your arguments start to fall apart very quickly? But keep watching MSM, keep believing Putin is evil. Because most of the rest of the world and by most I mean 7 billion people who are not part of the collective west, know who the real bad guys are.

 

[Robert]

Sometimes it's not worth wasting time on posters like this - I don't even know why I'm bothering.

Nor do I. Don’t.

 

[the Great Khan]

Because Putin is an existential threat to European democracy. Probing our military and cyber defences, testing our faith in our institutions with his propaganda, nibbling off territory that was part of USSR.

I have been saying this is n PP for the past years, and have been proven right.

It’s not about ”waking up the bear”. It’s about one man.

“Global south” - South America and Africa? They aren’t a threat to anyone. Indeed they are being economically subordinated to Beijing. China is the big opponent for the West over the next hundred years. Russia has a tenth of their GDP and will become China’s client state.

I thinks that's a complete over simplification. Look one thing we know about the Russians. Just listen to what they say. Putin has told us what he was gonna do. He's been saying it for 20 years. The west thought he was bluffing. Well he wasn't. The Russians cannot afford to have NATO on their border.

We as Pakistanis know what happens then happens. Years of problems. Salala is testament to that.

The west wants a weak Russia that it can manipulate and frankly plunder. Same with China. This is not a secret.

 

[sweep_shot]

The west sees everyone as an opponent that needs to be crushed if it doesn't do want they want. We as Pakistanis know this.

This is true. They act like they own the planet.

Look what they did to Iran in 1953: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état.

Can you imagine someone doing this to America? CNN probably would cry about it for 10 years.

 

[daytrader]

Russia’s Wagner Group claims capture of eastern Bakhmut

• Russia’s Wagner Group of mercenaries has taken full control of the eastern part of Bakhmut, its founder Yevgeny Prigozhin said.
• Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said the Russian army would have an “open road” into eastern Ukraine if it captures the besieged city of Bakhmut, US media reported on Tuesday.
• Intelligence reviewed by US officials indicates that a pro-Ukrainian group was behind last year’s attacks on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, but there was no evidence of the Kyiv government’s involvement, the New York Times reported.
• UN chief Antonio Guterres will meet Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Wednesday.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/live...ve-news-wagner-claims-capture-of-east-bakhmut

 

[the Great Khan]

Russia’s Wagner Group claims capture of eastern Bakhmut

• Russia’s Wagner Group of mercenaries has taken full control of the eastern part of Bakhmut, its founder Yevgeny Prigozhin said.
• Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said the Russian army would have an “open road” into eastern Ukraine if it captures the besieged city of Bakhmut, US media reported on Tuesday.
• Intelligence reviewed by US officials indicates that a pro-Ukrainian group was behind last year’s attacks on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, but there was no evidence of the Kyiv government’s involvement, the New York Times reported.
• UN chief Antonio Guterres will meet Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Wednesday.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/live...ve-news-wagner-claims-capture-of-east-bakhmut

Thought Bakhmut wasn't strategically of any value? The lies and propaganda are way too transparent.

 

[Robert]

The Russians cannot afford to have NATO on their border.

We as Pakistanis know what happens then happens. Years of problems. Salala is testament to that.

NATO is on Russia’s border.

Norway, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland all border Russian territory (either Russia itself or Kaliningrad).

So this point about NATO expansion to Russia’s border falls apart. It’s been there for twenty years. Seventy years in Norway’s case. It’s about to get longer as Finland joins NATO, in response to Putin’s invasion.

This is not about NATO. It’s about Putin hating the idea of Ukraine (which he sees as part of the Russian Empire) leaning west.

 

[bones]

Some US MSM, in fact all now claiming Ukraine blew up the gas pipeline.

 

[cpleigh]

Some US MSM, in fact all now claiming Ukraine blew up the gas pipeline.

No it isn't. Learn to read. It says a 'pro ukrainian group with no evidence the Ukranian government were involved'

That could be Russians, Yanks, Brits or anybody for that matter.

Wouldn't suprise me if they got intel of a Russian red flag and thwarted it first. (much like last weeks 'terror attack' that killed many civilians and kids, according to the pre released media statement.... but later was found out to be pro Ukranian Russians who got their first and filmed it)

 

[bones]

No it isn't. Learn to read. It says a 'pro ukrainian group with no evidence the Ukranian government were involved'

That could be Russians, Yanks, Brits or anybody for that matter.

Wouldn't suprise me if they got intel of a Russian red flag and thwarted it first. (much like last weeks 'terror attack' that killed many civilians and kids, according to the pre released media statement.... but later was found out to be pro Ukranian Russians who got their first and filmed it)

Oh look who it is - out of his slumber.

The guy who told us Russia were running out of precision missiles in July.

Pro-Ukranian - we all know what they actually mean. Someone else did it. What they forgot to add is, we set it all up.

 

[the Great Khan]

Some US MSM, in fact all now claiming Ukraine blew up the gas pipeline.

Half of Bakhmut is gone. Ukrops are in retreat some reports say a rout.

Now zelensky is saying the whole of the east will be open. But they said the town wasn't important?

As for the pipeline well we all know who did it lol.

 

[cpleigh]

Oh look who it is - out of his slumber.

The guy who told us Russia were running out of precision missiles in July.

Pro-Ukranian - we all know what they actually mean. Someone else did it. What they forgot to add is, we set it all up.

Get watching Russian state tv mate... its a pretty gloomy affair at the moment. preparing their audience for defeat.

Russia is done. Georgia is revolting now... amazing how all these countries who've lived under Russian rule want to reject it.

 

[bones]

Get watching Russian state tv mate... its a pretty gloomy affair at the moment. preparing their audience for defeat.

Russia is done. Georgia is revolting now... amazing how all these countries who've lived under Russian rule want to reject it.

Russia is done...all whilst MSM and you are somehow trying to cope with the fiasco at Bakhmut. "“They have suffered big losses, but at the same time, we cannot rule out that Bakhmut may eventually fall in the coming days.”" Keep telling us Russia are losing, running out of ammo, economically in ruins, but on they go.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/...nian-city-of-Bakhmut-may-fall-in-coming-days-

As for Georgia, yet another US plot to overthrow a pro-Russian government. Where have we seen that before? Try as they may, the US, Europe, Nato, nothing and no one is going to save Ukraine. Crimea and Donbas are going to the enemy forever.

 

[KingKhanWC]

its funny how you post a video with a buffoon talking some silly talking point, and fail to post the video the same channel posted minutes earlier...
of course, this would be 'main stream media' propaganda, but not when you can find a video of the far from unbiased russian spokesperson from the same source.

your gullibility was baffling, now it is just amusing. i see that in another message you called putin a liberator. my man you better be getting paid for this shilling.

Putin has not only liberated the Russian speaking people, he is changing YOUR world. Now you have to wake up everyday knowing your secular liberal western life is no longer the sole power.

Its amazing how some are so pro-west, pro-Nato they support Proxy war, state terrorism but if Putin and Russia defend itself, they are despots etc. Nobody with intelligence expect lapdogs of the west take this nonsense seriously, which is why the majority of the world are siding with Russia not the west.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good article, but I suspect you haven’t read it. I did. It talks of people who have either been kicked out of the military for far right views, or failed in their applications to join. Which suggests that the MoD’s anti radicalisation procedures are working.

It also mentions ten Prevent referrals out of 250,000 servicepeople.

So it doesn’t support your hypothesis that the HMAF are somehow rotted out by the far right, unlike the Wagner Group. Will you therefore accept that your HMAF strawman has failed?

Then you go on to tell me that black is white, regarding the leader of a nation with no free and fair elections, no press freedom, and whose dissenting voices fall out of high windows.

The Russian speakers in the East would be safe in Ukraine had Putin not fomented their rebellion in 2014, and armed them against their democratically elected government.

This is his MO. He stirs up trouble between factions who were at peace, starts civil violence, and then invades under the pretext of saving Russian speakers. See South Ossetia for a precedent.

This would have happened in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia too but they had the brains to join NATO, and EU too so can continue to enjoy safety, liberal democracy and prosperity.

His actions have strengthened his enemies as now Sweden and Finland want to join NATO too. So he will have brought NATO to another thousand miles of Russia’s border.

You are struggling to understand again. The Wagner group is around 20k, the British armed forces are 3/4X this amount. Therefore its no shock they will have more far right thinkers. Far right means extreme to the right, one of these traits is racism. The British armed forces are racist in general, its very normal. You can find many articles confirming this. Heck even the clown Prince Harry openly called a fellow soldier the P word, again proof its common. Ive met a few racist armed forces but apart from SAS or some special forces, most Brit soldiers are a bunch of wimps who can only gain joy by bombing people from a distance or shooting children in Iraq or Afghanistan.

If Russian troops ever arrived in the UK, it will be the people not these clowns in the armed forces who would defend the land.



Once again you're making up stuff even when you've been educated. The 2014 was a bloody terrorist coup backed , instigated by the west. Nato promised not to expand in the 90's but since many nations have joined. Now many more can, Russia has made itself clear. If they are threat to Russia they will be dealt with, you and the British government can cry more.

 

[Technics 1210]

You are struggling to understand again. The Wagner group is around 20k, the British armed forces are 3/4X this amount. Therefore its no shock they will have more far right thinkers. Far right means extreme to the right, one of these traits is racism. The British armed forces are racist in general, its very normal. You can find many articles confirming this. Heck even the clown Prince Harry openly called a fellow soldier the P word, again proof its common. Ive met a few racist armed forces but apart from SAS or some special forces, most Brit soldiers are a bunch of wimps who can only gain joy by bombing people from a distance or shooting children in Iraq or Afghanistan.

If Russian troops ever arrived in the UK, it will be the people not these clowns in the armed forces who would defend the land.



Once again you're making up stuff even when you've been educated. The 2014 was a bloody terrorist coup backed , instigated by the west. Nato promised not to expand in the 90's but since many nations have joined. Now many more can, Russia has made itself clear. If they are threat to Russia they will be dealt with, you and the British government can cry more.

What many people do not know is that the 2016 Clinton email leaks, confirmed everything in bold!

 

[KingKhanWC]

What many people do not know is that the 2016 Clinton email leaks, confirmed everything in bold!

Trump also admitted this recently, it was Obama who was in power, made the decision to support Nazis to shoot police. The Minsk deal was only to give Nato time to train, equip and prepare Ukrainians for the fight against Russia.

The people who claim Putin is a despot, dictator are embarrasing themselves.

 

[Robert]

You are struggling to understand again. The Wagner group is around 20k, the British armed forces are 3/4X this amount. Therefore its no shock they will have more far right thinkers. Far right means extreme to the right, one of these traits is racism. The British armed forces are racist in general, its very normal. You can find many articles confirming this. Heck even the clown Prince Harry openly called a fellow soldier the P word, again proof its common. Ive met a few racist armed forces but apart from SAS or some special forces, most Brit soldiers are a bunch of wimps who can only gain joy by bombing people [/] from a distance or shooting children in Iraq or Afghanistan.

If Russian troops ever arrived in the UK, it will be the people not these clowns in the armed forces who would defend the land.

I find that highly disrespectful to HMAF. Really a contemptible slur. But they will continue to safeguard your right to express your opinion.

I have met and worked with many ex-officers and senior NCOs. To a man and a woman they were excellent people - disciplined, courageous, unselfish and with strong people management and crisis management skills.

Once again you're making up stuff even when you've been educated. The 2014 was a bloody terrorist coup backed , instigated by the west. Nato promised not to expand in the 90's but since many nations have joined. Now many more can, Russia has made itself clear. If they are threat to Russia they will be dealt with, you and the British government can cry more.

Nobody on this thread has educated me, though [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] has given me pause for thought. Except him, it’s just a load of conspiracy thinking.

 

[Technics 1210]

HMAF did a sterling job in Afghanistan and Iraq, protecting us from whatever threat there was! ZERO!

We are not living in 1950s anymore, the excuse of HMAF protecting our right to freedom of expression is an outright lie! There is no threat to our expression other than from Liberals!

More Liberals dishonesty and propaganda - the real conspiracy!

And yes, 2014 Ukraine was an coup engineered by Amreeka, as per Wiki-leaks.

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

I just picked the most leftist source, because the news is just common knowledge.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I find that highly disrespectful to HMAF. Really a contemptible slur. But they will continue to safeguard your right to express your opinion.

I have met and worked with many ex-officers and senior NCOs. To a man and a woman they were excellent people - disciplined, courageous, unselfish and with strong people management and crisis management skills.



Nobody on this thread has educated me, though [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] has given me pause for thought. Except him, it’s just a load of conspiracy thinking.

Nobody is safeguarding me or my right. Stop watching James Bond films Robert! We live in 2023 not 1950. If UK were to be invaded, you think the Armed forces would save you? Most are a bunch of idiots wanting to go into the forces because they have no skills or because they are racist, think its cool to go over and points guns at other people. Ive met TWO who have shot kids. You need to learn to accept others opinions.

Of course when you cant debate or accept a point which is true, its a conspiracy theory for you. You call the Wagner group far right but are making excuses for the far right in the UK forces. You have ignored the Azov Nazis are celebrated in Ukraine, roads named after Nazis, days for celebrations for Nazis but this is ok for you.

Robert you and others who support Ukraine Nazis have no credibility left in this thread. Russia is right to defend itself and will do so even if the Brits Dads army went to war , which they wont.