The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[daytrader]

Explosions in Kyiv as strikes across Ukraine cause blackouts

Kyiv’s mayor has reported that Russia has struck Kyiv during its latest mass strikes accoss Ukraine.

“Explosions in the Holosiiv district of the capital. All services follow in place. More details later,” Kyiv’s Mayor, Vitali Klitschko, said on Telegram a few minutes ago.

Reporters in Kyiv said they heard a loud explosion at around 6am. The explosions are part of a pre-dawn wave of mass strikes by Russia launched before dawn on Thursday.

Explosions were also reported in Odesa and Ukraine’s second largest city, Kharkiv, knocking out power to several areas.

Air raid sirens sounded across the country.

...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...trikes-blackouts-odesa-kharkiv-latest-updates

 

[bones]

^^ How is such a large missile attack possible? The Russians ran out in June last year according to cpleigh, junaids and a couple of others.

 

[Robert]

Nobody is safeguarding me or my right. Stop watching James Bond films Robert! We live in 2023 not 1950. If UK were to be invaded, you think the Armed forces would save you?

Of course I do. Every day, they are deterring just that.

 

[bones]

Yesterday I was reading a journal and I found a very interesting quote from the first NATO commander, who happened to be British.

"NATO was formed to keep the Americans in, the Russians out and the Germans down."

 

[cpleigh]

^^ How is such a large missile attack possible? The Russians ran out in June last year according to cpleigh, junaids and a couple of others.

Used 6 Kinzai missiles... over a month from the last attack..

So yeah... it looks like they are running out now.

On a serious note, do you think Russia will ever learn that these attacks won't make Ukraine wilt?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yesterday I was reading a journal and I found a very interesting quote from the first NATO commander, who happened to be British.

"NATO was formed to keep the Americans in, the Russians out and the Germans down."

The quote is showing it's age. But of course that thinking is still alive and well in the background.

 

[bones]

Used 6 Kinzai missiles... over a month from the last attack..

So yeah... it looks like they are running out now.

On a serious note, do you think Russia will ever learn that these attacks won't make Ukraine wilt?

Do you not get it? They launched over 100 missiles, a mix of 90s, 00s and modern hypersonic missiles. It means they have ramped up production and they are probably using stuff from their stocks. They are not going to run out of missiles anytime soon. But you've been saying they are running low but then a few days later reports of a new wave of attacks.

Ukraine won't wilt? They've got nothing left. America is keeping them afloat financially and militarily. 10 million people have left the country, 8 million will never return - why would they? The army has been obliterated. More and more videos of 15-17 yr olds being conscripted. They have no access to the Black Sea, not without Russian consent. They're going to use their most resource rich territory forever.

The time to negotiate was early last year. Now the Russians have no incentive to negotiate, they'll keep going however long it takes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ukraine are begging for American fighter jets now, but you could understand why the US would be reluctant to provide them. What is now barely masquerading as a proxy war, could easily escalate into a full on world war. This will all probably hinge on how the elections play out in the US next time round. Maybe Ukraine can hold out indefinitely under the missile carnage. Rather them than us, that's all I will say about it.

 

[bones]

Ukraine are begging for American fighter jets now, but you could understand why the US would be reluctant to provide them. What is now barely masquerading as a proxy war, could easily escalate into a full on world war. This will all probably hinge on how the elections play out in the US next time round. Maybe Ukraine can hold out indefinitely under the missile carnage. Rather them than us, that's all I will say about it.

Two comments on this.

Firstly, the Ukranians know they'll probably need NATO pilots to fly those planes, their own pilots have been trained on Soviet jets mostly. According to all analysts you need years of training in a jet. Perhaps this is a way of them asking for NATO to step in and join the fight.

Secondly the jets they're demanding, F16s and the like, well they won't make an iota of a difference. The moment they get anywhere near the frontlines they'll be shot down by S-300s, this would be an embarassment for the US. If you don't believe me on this point read up on it. The Air Defence Systems from both Russia and NATO are so effective they are very reluctant to use such expensive jets.

 

[Robert]

Ukraine are begging for American fighter jets now, but you could understand why the US would be reluctant to provide them. What is now barely masquerading as a proxy war, could easily escalate into a full on world war. This will all probably hinge on how the elections play out in the US next time round. Maybe Ukraine can hold out indefinitely under the missile carnage. Rather them than us, that's all I will say about it.

It's turning into a Vietnam - where the NVA and VC were supplied with massive amounts of Russian and Chinese artillery and aircraft.

Yeah - a DeSantis win may mean US pulling back from some international commitments. That will make Europe a more dangerous place, but maybe closer European defence integration will follow.

 

[Technics 1210]

Got to love the semantic evasive tactics from Liberals defending NATO here.

"Russia have run out of missiles, but some how they found 6 a year later"

)

 

[Technics 1210]

NATO apologists seem to be stuck in the past.

Its either invoking Godwin's law and comparing today with Nazi Germany, or its comparing today with past wars in which the West got their backsides handed on a plat; perhaps just to feel better by reminiscing on the past, yet not realising that wars are not fought in the way they used to.

The West is now weaker than it was. Russia has defied the Western sanctions, and Ukraine is still out with a begging bowl, meanwhile NATO dare not poke the Russian bear!

No wonder NATO and Liberals are losing the Ukraine war and the debate!

 

[the Great Khan]

It's turning into a Vietnam - where the NVA and VC were supplied with massive amounts of Russian and Chinese artillery and aircraft.

Yeah - a DeSantis win may mean US pulling back from some international commitments. That will make Europe a more dangerous place, but maybe closer European defence integration will follow.

The difference here is the terrain and local support as well as the training and weaponry.

During vietnam the Americans were far from home. The war was unpopular, their tactics and soldiers alienated the locals etc etc. The viet cong were battle hardened had massive local support and the terrain was in their favour. They also had good leadership and a very steady supply of easy to use arms.

In Ukraine the terrain cancels advantages as the Russians have experience of the environment.

They have a deep deep supply of amaments and they have sorted out their logistics.

Their populace are for the war.

The Ukrainians on the other hand have none of the advantages of the NVA. They have no airforce. The people of the Donbass hate them. They are running out of arms. The western populace are wavering in their support. Their leadership is nothing compared to Ho chi minh..it is corrupt and untrustworthy.

So I cant see this war going the same way. It is a different ball game..

 

[Robert]

The difference here is the terrain and local support as well as the training and weaponry.

During vietnam the Americans were far from home. The war was unpopular, their tactics and soldiers alienated the locals etc etc. The viet cong were battle hardened had massive local support and the terrain was in their favour. They also had good leadership and a very steady supply of easy to use arms.

In Ukraine the terrain cancels advantages as the Russians have experience of the environment.

They have a deep deep supply of amaments and they have sorted out their logistics.

Their populace are for the war.

The Ukrainians on the other hand have none of the advantages of the NVA. They have no airforce. The people of the Donbass hate them. They are running out of arms. The western populace are wavering in their support. Their leadership is nothing compared to Ho chi minh..it is corrupt and untrustworthy.

So I cant see this war going the same way. It is a different ball game..

The other difference is this is a proper war to gain territory, not a “police action” to kill as many NVA & VC as possible.

USA won every major battle in Vietnam. But in the end the political will failed as more and more lads came home in bags, or with broken bodies and minds. Russia doesn’t have a free press questioning the war either.

 

[MenInG]

At least nine people have died in a new wave of strikes across Ukraine in which Russia used powerful weapons, including rare hypersonic missiles.

Russia had reportedly not fired Kinzhal hypersonic missiles - which can evade air defences - since the early months of the conflict.

The latest barrage was the most severe to hit Ukraine for weeks.

It cut power to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant - Europe's biggest - although it was later restored.

On Thursday Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said: "High-precision long-range air, sea and land-based weapons, including the Kinzhal hypersonic missile system, hit key elements of Ukraine's military infrastructure."

It was the biggest day of Russian strikes on Ukraine since the end of January,

The Ukrainian military claimed it had successfully shot down 34 cruise missiles and four Iranian-made Shahed drones.

 

[sweep_shot]

USA won every major battle in Vietnam. But in the end the political will failed as more and more lads came home in bags, or with broken bodies and minds. Russia doesn’t have a free press questioning the war either.

Yankees got their butts kicked in Vietnam.

Robert thinks Yankees are always the good guys and they always win. LOL.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Of course I do. Every day, they are deterring just that.

Other powerful nations such as Russia or China dont see a small army as any deterrent. You can fit the whole UK forces in one football stadium.

Today has been bloody.

Russia are showing some serious force after a terrorist attack on Bryansk region bordering Ukraine few days ago.

Its not clear yet but it seems some powerful missiles have hit Kyiv and other cities.

Its absurd people thinking Russia is running out of missiles, they have huge stockpiles.

War is never good but in terms of tactics, it might be better for Russia to use missiles to end this quickly now.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why are they forcing people to fight? You wont see MSM condemning this.

 

[sweep_shot]

Why are they forcing people to fight? You wont see MSM condemning this.

Not surprising. Russians have broken the back of Ukrainian army. It is a shame Zelensky is still using his people/soldiers as cannon fodders.

All these can be stopped if Zelensky comes to negotiation table.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not surprising. Russians have broken the back of Ukrainian army. It is a shame Zelensky is still using his people/soldiers as cannon fodders.

All these can be stopped if Zelensky comes to negotiation table.

We cant expect nothing less from Nazis and Nato puppets.

Many children have been forced to fight. These are war crimes but BBC doesnt realise.

Ukrainian children as young as four are put through their paces at a military training camp in race to defend their borders from Russian invasion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-young-four-paces-military-training-camp.html

 

[sweep_shot]

We cant expect nothing less from Nazis and Nato puppets.

Many children have been forced to fight. These are war crimes but BBC doesnt realise.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-young-four-paces-military-training-camp.html

Four year old! They are training four year old children for this as per the article. Shameful.

This is a crime against humanity right there.

I totally expect radical liberals like Robert to defend this though.

 

[SalimBhai]

Does hamas not train kids also ? Did iran not send kids wrapped with explosives to the front lines blow themselves against the Iraqi army? Where they liberals? Your argument is weak as usual

 

[captain.hansolo]

Why are they forcing people to fight? You wont see MSM condemning this.

Do you know what a military draft is? Do you know what registering for selective service is?

And if you do, maybe you can read about how avoiding or ‘dodging’ the draft or not responding to a draft call up is not unheard of.

Watch the rest of the video, puts things in context.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Does hamas not train kids also ? Did iran not send kids wrapped with explosives to the front lines blow themselves against the Iraqi army? Where they liberals? Your argument is weak as usual

What has Hamas or Iraq got to do with this thread? Dont divert.

Are you saying you condone the Ukranians sending kids to fight?

 

[captain.hansolo]

Yankees got their butts kicked in Vietnam.

Robert thinks Yankees are always the good guys and they always win. LOL.

No, not always the good guys. But we don’t lose either. It’s just a matter of whether the engagement serves a purpose for which we are willing to pay the political and human price.

With drone use, that price was significantly reduced and thus the nearly two decades of use in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

On the other hand, physical occupation of Afghanistan came with a human price of about 4-5 casualties a month. We weren’t willing to pay that, and quite justly so.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Do you know what a military draft is? Do you know what registering for selective service is?

And if you do, maybe you can read about how avoiding or ‘dodging’ the draft or not responding to a draft call up is not unheard of.

Watch the rest of the video, puts things in context.

I thought Ukraine was part of the 'FREE WORLD'. Try watching the clip again, the Ukrainian Helkini committee member himself admits he has over 20 cases where illegal actions have taken place.

Please stick to Star wars.

 

[SalimBhai]

What has Hamas or Iraq got to do with this thread? Dont divert.

Are you saying you condone the Ukranians sending kids to fight?

I am saying sending kids to fight either by Ukraine , hamas. Iran is not a liberal idea . As stated mindlessly by sweepshot

 

[SalimBhai]

Four year old! They are training four year old children for this as per the article. Shameful.

This is a crime against humanity right there.

I totally expect radical liberals like Robert to defend this though.

i
Is hamas and iran sending kids to die also radical liberal policies??? I expect you will not be answering here

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am saying sending kids to fight either by Ukraine , hamas. Iran is not a liberal idea . As stated mindlessly by sweepshot

So you condemn Ukraine good.

Hamas and Iran have had sanctions, designated as terrorists. Do you think the US will also follow suit for Ukraine now? If not why not?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The other difference is this is a proper war to gain territory, not a “police action” to kill as many NVA & VC as possible.

USA won every major battle in Vietnam. But in the end the political will failed as more and more lads came home in bags, or with broken bodies and minds. Russia doesn’t have a free press questioning the war either.

I think you missed TGK's main point. Russia and Ukraine is far from home, it's not our fight.

 

[captain.hansolo]

I think you missed TGK's main point. Russia and Ukraine is far from home, it's not our fight.

Well lucky for you, you aren’t fighting.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well lucky for you, you aren’t fighting.

Neither are you but unlike you...he isnt cheerleading Ukrainians to their death.

 

[bones]

i
Is hamas and iran sending kids to die also radical liberal policies??? I expect you will not be answering here

You won’t find anyone support suicide bombers or solders - forced or voluntary whatever the age.

Stick to the thread topic.

 

[SalimBhai]

No, there is plenty of support for suicide bombers, the mothers in Iran volunteered their sons to be martyred against Iraq. the same sons were considered heroes. So what you are stating is false. However my question was to sweepshot. It seems he is busy....

 

[Gilly]

Four year old! They are training four year old children for this as per the article. Shameful.

This is a crime against humanity right there.

I totally expect radical liberals like Robert to defend this though.

Are you quoting MSM as your reference to the truth?.

 

[Robert]

Other powerful nations such as Russia or China dont see a small army as any deterrent. You can fit the whole UK forces in one football stadium.

Today has been bloody.

Russia are showing some serious force after a terrorist attack on Bryansk region bordering Ukraine few days ago.

Its not clear yet but it seems some powerful missiles have hit Kyiv and other cities.

Its absurd people thinking Russia is running out of missiles, they have huge stockpiles.

War is never good but in terms of tactics, it might be better for Russia to use missiles to end this quickly now.

The RAF and RN are quite capable of interdicting Russian incursions into our airspace and sea space.

And as we have seen, the Russian army cannot fight. I am gobsmacked that Ukraine has held out for so long.

Russia is not a powerful nation. We have double their GDP. They are large geographically, but a third is tundra and another third desert so uninhabitable. All they have is a lot of nukes.

In any event they would have to get through France, Germany, Poland and Norway first and NATO will stop them.

China is a different matter. They are the coming power economically and are rapidly expanding their military, building bases into the South and East China Sea and scaring their neighbours. But they are America’s problem not ours. I don’t like this AUKUS development and don’t like to see our big carrier in the South China Sea. The North Atlantic is our yard to guard, not the Far East.

 

[bones]

The RAF and RN are quite capable of interdicting Russian incursions into our airspace and sea space.

And as we have seen, the Russian army cannot fight. I am gobsmacked that Ukraine has held out for so long.

Russia is not a powerful nation. We have double their GDP. They are large geographically, but a third is tundra and another third desert so uninhabitable. All they have is a lot of nukes.

The RAF and RN are a shadow of their former self. The only reason the United Kingdom will hold out is because we’re an island. Amphibious assaults are extremely dangerous and you would need a staggeringly high number of troops which no one has these days.

You like almost every sheep in the west has no idea about this conflict. They tell you something and you take it as gospel. The Russians started this operation with around 200k soldiers of which 100k were the two Donbas militias. The AFU had close to 300k soldiers and around 350k border force/national security forces. To start off this operation the Russians were outnumbered by 3 to 1. Please go to your sources and verify these numbers yourself.

Since the west won’t allow diplomacy, Boris Johnson blocked talks in April last year, the Russians have had to change their strategy. However they are still not in a wartime setting. They have mobilised 300k forces at a minimum and some intelligence agencies are reporting that the Russians mobilised over 500k and that the total number now available or being used is 730-740k. The vast majority of these units are in Belarus, east of Donbas or south of Zaporozhia. They are waiting for the muddy ground to harden- they know better than anyone the legendary muddy lands of Eastern Europe.

If you bothered to read anything other than the shyte msm spews then you would realise that the Russians want and still want this to end diplomatically. But they are being forced by the west. Xi will visit Moscow next week, if we are lucky in the coming weeks there will be no need for Russia to bring those well equipped troops into the front. If we are not lucky the war carries on and Russia will totally obliterate everything and take huge swathes of land. The Ukrainians have nothing left. They have lost 1/4 of their population, 1/5 of their land, the land lost is the richest in terms of natural resources, their economy is destroyed and are only being kept alive because they are essentially the 51st state.

The Russians have raw energy and food. It doesn’t matter if you think their economy is small- they have the most important commodities for humans in abundance- they will never collapse they will flourish. The collective west to the excitement of the sheep implemented sanction after sanction but the Russian economy grew more than the British economy last year.

 

[bones]

When I say Ukraine has lost 1/4 of its population I mean through refugees - not Kia. Those refugees will mostly settle where they are.

 

[Robert]

We cant expect nothing less from Nazis and Nato puppets.

Many children have been forced to fight. These are war crimes but BBC doesnt realise.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-young-four-paces-military-training-camp.html

So the MSM is truthful when it suits your narrative?

You have not read your own source again. The article does not say four-year-olds are being forced to do anything. I see little lads playing in the woods with toy rifles, like I did with my Action Man.

I hope this awful war will be over by the time these lads grow old enough to hold a real rifle.

 

[Robert]

Here we go. From the posted article:

“The boy cannot sign up as a proper volunteer as he must be at least 18 years-old before he can be considered.“

Helps to actually bother to read further than the headline

 

[SalimBhai]

Here we go. From the posted article:

“The boy cannot sign up as a proper volunteer as he must be at least 18 years-old before he can be considered.“

Helps to actually bother to read further than the headline

I gusss not those damn liberal then

 

[KingKhanWC]

The RAF and RN are quite capable of interdicting Russian incursions into our airspace and sea space.

And as we have seen, the Russian army cannot fight. I am gobsmacked that Ukraine has held out for so long.

Russia is not a powerful nation. We have double their GDP. They are large geographically, but a third is tundra and another third desert so uninhabitable. All they have is a lot of nukes.

In any event they would have to get through France, Germany, Poland and Norway first and NATO will stop them.

China is a different matter. They are the coming power economically and are rapidly expanding their military, building bases into the South and East China Sea and scaring their neighbours. But they are America’s problem not ours. I don’t like this AUKUS development and don’t like to see our big carrier in the South China Sea. The North Atlantic is our yard to guard, not the Far East.

The full Russian army hasnt even started to fight. In the last 12 months most of the fighting has been by Chechen forces, Wagner group and some Russian forces. They have been more than enough to conquer land, control it and take out the enemy in hundreds of thousands.

RN and RAF will defend to a point. But any Russian invasion, Brits forces are simply too small and frankly mostly made up of beer drinking louts who return from war with mental health because they point guns at kids while shivering to the sound of AK47s. British forces were humiliated in Afghanistan, the Yanks had to come in and help. Imagine what the Russians would do? The defence of the UK will come from the people here, inc the Muslims and Blacks who came from commonwealth nation alongside white Brits. You can wait around for the army to come save you, I wont. GDP means nothing, Russia has more missiles than Europe put together, paper money wont save you either. The rest of Europe are not match either, remember if push comes to shove Russia will use its nuclear ability. Its simply stupid and ignorant to mess with such a great power.

So the MSM is truthful when it suits your narrative?

You have not read your own source again. The article does not say four-year-olds are being forced to do anything. I see little lads playing in the woods with toy rifles, like I did with my Action Man.

I hope this awful war will be over by the time these lads grow old enough to hold a real rifle.

Please read my posts, never did I state 4 year olds, the article did.

The war could be over tomorrow if the West abandons its proxy war but it doesnt care for the Ukrainians and neither do the cheerleaders sitting on their sofas drinking milky tea.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ask these warmongering liberals why they supported Boris in convincing Ukraine not to negotiate peace back in April.

 

[Robert]

The full Russian army hasnt even started to fight. In the last 12 months most of the fighting has been by Chechen forces, Wagner group and some Russian forces. They have been more than enough to conquer land, control it and take out the enemy in hundreds of thousands.

RN and RAF will defend to a point. But any Russian invasion, Brits forces are simply too small and frankly mostly made up of beer drinking louts who return from war with mental health because they point guns at kids while shivering to the sound of AK47s. British forces were humiliated in Afghanistan, the Yanks had to come in and help. Imagine what the Russians would do? The defence of the UK will come from the people here, inc the Muslims and Blacks who came from commonwealth nation alongside white Brits. You can wait around for the army to come save you, I wont. GDP means nothing, Russia has more missiles than Europe put together, paper money wont save you either. The rest of Europe are not match either, remember if push comes to shove Russia will use its nuclear ability. It’s simply stupid and ignorant to mess with such a great power.

Please read my posts, never did I state 4 year olds, the article did.

The war could be over tomorrow if the West abandons its proxy war but it doesnt care for the Ukrainians and neither do the cheerleaders sitting on their sofas drinking milky tea.

The only way for it to be over is for Ukraine to surrender territory to the monster in Moscow. But even then, they will carry on partisan / guerrilla resistance forever. The Putin phanboiz are drinking tea on sofas too. We discuss this horror like a test match. It’s faintly sickening and degrading behaviour.

You stated “Many children have been forced to fight”. Your own article contradicts this. Conscription begins at age 18.

British forces in Helmand had a tough time because of decades of the MoD buying inadequate kit like soft Land Rovers instead of tough vehicles. I’d back the average British infantryman or tanky against any regular professional soldier on Earth because their training is second to none.

PTSD happens when your best mate suddenly loses both legs to an IED or half his face is shot off by a sniper. We have known this since WW1.

But this fantasy of Russia invading UK is silly. Even if the Yanks were to pull out of NATO, even if Russia were to somehow beat down Germany and France, which they couldn’t on current form due to their incompetence in training, logistics and maintenance, the RN and RAF would inflict massive damage on the invasion fleet and stop it before it could land.

Nukes apart, Russians are no real threat. But UK and France have SSBNs too, so in a war situation the Russian navy would have to find and destroy two CASD submarines to force Europe to cede territory by nuclear blackmail - perhaps the Baltic states. Russia is no match for NATO in conventional forces, which is why Putin carries out hybrid warfare - propaganda, influencing Brexit and the election of Trump through St Petersburg troll farms, and corroding British institutions with oligarch cash.

 

[bones]

Robert uses the term propaganda a lot but here he is the one feeding off propaganda more than anyone.

If you don’t even know who is fighting for the Russians in Ukraine, how can you even make a comment on it? The majority of the fighting has been by the two Donbas militias, Wagner mercs and some Chechen fighters. The Russian army has mainly been providing air and artillery support.

Just wait for the muddy season to end and then you will see the real Russian army. Many thought they would have entered during winter but apparently they hadn’t finished setting up logistics. But they ready now and when the weather is right, things will start moving. That said the Ukrainians have built up huge fortifications and planted thousands of anti tank and anti personnel mines. The Russians will still need to be methodical.

There is a chance that knowing what is going to come, the Americans might let their puppet start talks. Only the mercy of Putin will save them from signing a total capitulation.

But all of what we say is propaganda and all of what you say isn’t right?

 

[bones]

Cpleigh said Russia is having supply problems.

Perhaps he should read this article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/03/08/us-weapons-manufacturing-ukraine/

 

[mazkhan]

It's been over 7 months and the Russians haven't even still fully captured bakhmut an insignificant town.

7 months that's all anyone needs to know about the performance of the rust bucket military in ukraine .

So much so they have handed over the fight to a paramilitary organisation wagner which has been sending riff raff and prisoners to their deaths in droves.

 

[pakistani pride]

It's been over 7 months and the Russians haven't even still fully captured bakhmut an insignificant town.

7 months that's all anyone needs to know about the performance of the rust bucket military in ukraine .

So much so they have handed over the fight to a paramilitary organisation wagner which has been sending riff raff and prisoners to their deaths in droves.

Bones and KingKhan, comments?

 

[Technics 1210]

It's been over 7 months and the Russians haven't even still fully captured bakhmut an insignificant town.

7 months that's all anyone needs to know about the performance of the rust bucket military in ukraine .

So much so they have handed over the fight to a paramilitary organisation wagner which has been sending riff raff and prisoners to their deaths in droves.

Its been 13 months and NATO/Ukraine are unable to defeat Russia.

Whats your point?

 

[bones]

Bones and KingKhan, comments?

where does one begin with such naive posts?

 

[bones]

It's been over 7 months and the Russians haven't even still fully captured bakhmut an insignificant town.

7 months that's all anyone needs to know about the performance of the rust bucket military in ukraine .

So much so they have handed over the fight to a paramilitary organisation wagner which has been sending riff raff and prisoners to their deaths in droves.

Bakhmut is one of the most heavily fortified places. There are mines and traps everywhere. Neither side can manoeuvre because of the legendary mud. It takes time to make progress. This isn’t a computer game. If it’s insignificant why are the Ukrainians sending BTG after BTG to defend it? When Ukraine is on the verge of losing a place it becomes insignificant. Bakhmut is an ethnic Russian city so they are also being cautious about not killing civilians there.

7 months in, billions upon billions of aid, weapons and other support such as reconnaissance and satellite surveillance yet the Ukrainians are losing hundreds each day and cannot make a dent on the Russians.

All of this whilst the main Russian army is sitting and waiting to join, they will join once the legendary mud allows them to.

You clearly don’t know what the Wagner group is. They are an organisation with private contractors trained and skilled in urban conflict. The Chechens wanted the task of taking Bakhmut and soledar but Wagner convinced Russian command to let them. Rumours are that because of the success and attention Chechens had in Mariupol, Wagner wanted to be the ones to break the next urban fortress.

Mariupol was significant until it became Russian. Popssnaya was insignificant until it became Russian. Melitopol, severodonestk, lisichansk etc etc all insignificant now because Russia holds them.

Mighty nato went home humiliated after 20 yrs of pillaging Afghanistan, fighting farmers and goat shepherds but Russia without using their main mobilised forces fighting all of nato and capturing 15% of Ukraine is a failure?

The fact you think Russia is in a rush tells us how naive you are.

 

[bones]

While nato is busy making and fighting wars, China is trying to make peace. None of the nato countries proposed a peace plan, whatever anyone thinks of it. It should tell you who wants the war to continue…Ukraine’s masters in the west are happy to use Ukrainian soldiers as fodder.


China managed to do something the west could never have done, bring Iran and Saudi Arabia to start talks and sign a pledge to work together again.

 

[Robert]

It's been over 7 months and the Russians haven't even still fully captured bakhmut an insignificant town.

7 months that's all anyone needs to know about the performance of the rust bucket military in ukraine .

So much so they have handed over the fight to a paramilitary organisation wagner which has been sending riff raff and prisoners to their deaths in droves.

Actually this is the eighth year of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Putin escalated last February.

It’s clear they still have precision missiles.

But they are wasting them in blowing up residential blocks.

Surely they must know when the trains from Poland laden with tanks and munitions cross into Ukraine? They should be hitting these trains with their precision ordnance. That’s what NATO would do. Strangle the Ukrainian ability to resist, then roll over them and force their capitulation.

Things will only get worse for the Russians when the Western MBTs start to arrive.

What’s the end-game for Putin? Subdue the Donbas? Create a buffer zone? The rest of Ukraine will still join NATO, and Finland too so the Russia-NATO border will be 2000 km longer anyway.

 

[bones]

Actually this is the eighth year of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Putin escalated last February.

It’s clear they still have precision missiles.

But they are wasting them in blowing up residential blocks.

Surely they must know when the trains from Poland laden with tanks and munitions cross into Ukraine? They should be hitting these trains with their precision ordnance. That’s what NATO would do. Strangle the Ukrainian ability to resist, then roll over them and force their capitulation.

Things will only get worse for the Russians when the Western MBTs start to arrive.

What’s the end-game for Putin? Subdue the Donbas? Create a buffer zone? The rest of Ukraine will still join NATO, and Finland too so the Russia-NATO border will be 2000 km longer anyway.

If you don't know about something, there's no shame in not typing about that topic.

The Russians have been hitting the energy grid and military support facilities with their missiles. If you think they're sending missiles worth millions to hit civilian buildings you're are utterly clueless. Mind you, you follow MSM, so no surprise you believe what you do.

By hitting the energy grid and the military facilities they hurt the supply and logistics lines a lot more than hitting a couple of train carriages. Hitting train lines is futile anyway, every single country on earth has teams of engineers who can repair damaged train lines or remove damaged carriages within 24 hours.

You say things will get worse when western weapons arrive - tell me practically how the Ukranians would be better off with them than Soviet/Russian equipment, something they've trained their whole lives with. You do realise almost all military equipment requires re-supply, regular maintenance and repairs. How are Ukranians going to 1. do that on the frontline or near to it, 2. building facilities which can do that in the country? The answer is they can't to both. In order to effectively use this equipment they need NATO officers and they'll have to send this equipment back to Poland or Germany for repairs. These NATO officers will be out of uniform of course because in uniform it would be an act of direct war which would be an escalation that neither side really wants.

I suggest to all the amateurs here, especially cpeigh, mazkhan, salim and Robert do some proper research before typing the propaganda from MSM that they do.

1. Read up on the sizes of the forces deployed by both sides, specifically what the strengths are - hint focus on artillery.
2. Read up on WW2 and the legendary mud of eastern europe - hint it can make or break offensives more than any number of western tanks - lol at Robert for this point.
3. Read up on the mobilisation of both sides, who exactly has been mobilised and who is being sent to the front - hint if you follow MSM for this you might as well start believing the toothfairy is real.
4. Look at the Military Production right now and the capability for a surge - hint, Russia is at a near wartime footing since September 2022, NATO isn't.
5. Read up on and investigate maps, specifically the ones which show some of the fortifications in the Donbas - hint, there are miles and miles of trenches and huge fields loaded with anti vehicle mines.

All of this put together gives you an idea of what's happening out there, why things appear to be moving slowly - they aren't but regardless and most importantly they'll tell you just how wrong you are when you describe either side as being unproffessional or not up to standard.

 

[Technics 1210]

Warmongering liberals are being silenced at the rate of Ukrainian and NATO forces. Their lies and propaganda exposed, their 'intelligence' debunked, and their 'knowledge', falsified.

Why is no liberal talking about negotiating peace? They did so with the IRA, why not with Russia?

 

[daytrader]

Heavy casualties reported in Bakhmut as battle for city rages
Ukraine and Russia say thousands have been killed or badly wounded as each side battles for control of the town.

Ukraine and Russia have reported heavy casualties as the slow, grinding fight for control of the salt-mining town of Bakhmut continues in eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine controls the area to the west of the now ruined and nearly deserted Bakhmut, while Russia’s Wagner Group controls most of the eastern part, according to British intelligence, with the Bakhmutka River that winds through the town marking the front line.

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said more than 1,100 Russian soldiers had been killed in the past few days fighting along the Bakhmut section of the front line.

“In less than a week, starting from the 6th March, we managed to kill more than 1,100 enemy soldiers in the Bakhmut sector alone, Russia’s irreversible loss, right there, near Bakhmut,” Zelenskyy said in his nightly video address.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-reported-in-bakhmut-as-battle-for-city-rages

 

[Gilly]

Warmongering liberals are being silenced at the rate of Ukrainian and NATO forces. Their lies and propaganda exposed, their 'intelligence' debunked, and their 'knowledge', falsified.

Why is no liberal talking about negotiating peace? They did so with the IRA, why not with Russia?

I suspect most liberals do not wish to talk to you about anything like most people (sane). You seem to have a very childish attitude to war and think it is opportunity for you to beat your chest.

 

[Technics 1210]

I suspect most liberals do not wish to talk to you about anything like most people (sane). You seem to have a very childish attitude to war and think it is opportunity for you to beat your chest.

Bless.

Liberals are not interested in peace, regardless of my input. Their hypothetical values have no relevance to my existence. Even MSM proves this point. You do realise I am not refering to posts on PP, but Western governments supporting this war, rather than talk peace like China.

Liberals love to talk about war in my absence (case in point), plus the government mouthpiece is clear, but not peace - this is how ludricous your point is - how do I sway the intentions of a racists warmongering government?

Come back when you have something more than character analysis and violent bias against non-Western nations - not that you are a westerner.

 

[bones]

America should prepare for the new multi-polar world.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/death-of-a-myth/

 

[KingKhanWC]

The only way for it to be over is for Ukraine to surrender territory to the monster in Moscow. But even then, they will carry on partisan / guerrilla resistance forever. The Putin phanboiz are drinking tea on sofas too. We discuss this horror like a test match. It’s faintly sickening and degrading behaviour.

You stated “Many children have been forced to fight”. Your own article contradicts this. Conscription begins at age 18.

British forces in Helmand had a tough time because of decades of the MoD buying inadequate kit like soft Land Rovers instead of tough vehicles. I’d back the average British infantryman or tanky against any regular professional soldier on Earth because their training is second to none.

PTSD happens when your best mate suddenly loses both legs to an IED or half his face is shot off by a sniper. We have known this since WW1.

But this fantasy of Russia invading UK is silly. Even if the Yanks were to pull out of NATO, even if Russia were to somehow beat down Germany and France, which they couldn’t on current form due to their incompetence in training, logistics and maintenance, the RN and RAF would inflict massive damage on the invasion fleet and stop it before it could land.

Nukes apart, Russians are no real threat. But UK and France have SSBNs too, so in a war situation the Russian navy would have to find and destroy two CASD submarines to force Europe to cede territory by nuclear blackmail - perhaps the Baltic states. Russia is no match for NATO in conventional forces, which is why Putin carries out hybrid warfare - propaganda, influencing Brexit and the election of Trump through St Petersburg troll farms, and corroding British institutions with oligarch cash.

Bones has given a good reply already.

As for children, Ukraine are illegally sending kids to war. Its absurd for anyone to even think Ukraine is following the law.

Lets not blame the kit, Brits were overwhelmed by the great Afghan resistance, they just couldnt handle the heat in the kitchen.

PTSD is an excuse usually for because they or their mates have killed some innocent person inc a child. Dont go to war if you cant handle it but I guess holding guns to poor Afghan children and women makes these clowns think they are heros.

Russia is very competent as seen in Syria and now in Ukraine. You wish they werent and have started to believe your own desires. Heck the UK cant even uses its nukes without USA saying yes.

 

[captain.hansolo]

Bones has given a good reply already.

As for children, Ukraine are illegally sending kids to war. Its absurd for anyone to even think Ukraine is following the law.

Lets not blame the kit, Brits were overwhelmed by the great Afghan resistance, they just couldnt handle the heat in the kitchen.

PTSD is an excuse usually for because they or their mates have killed some innocent person inc a child. Dont go to war if you cant handle it but I guess holding guns to poor Afghan children and women makes these clowns think they are heros.

Russia is very competent as seen in Syria and now in Ukraine. You wish they werent and have started to believe your own desires. Heck the UK cant even uses its nukes without USA saying yes.

You need a job mate.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You need a job mate.

You cant afford me. Stick to star wars.

 

[captain.hansolo]

You cant afford me. Stick to star wars.

I don’t need to hire delusional keyboard jockeys.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t need to hire delusional keyboard jockeys.

Chewbacca will be crying hearing this.

 

[HitWicket]

As for children, Ukraine are illegally sending kids to war. Its absurd for anyone to even think Ukraine is following the law.

You keep repeating this but I'm yet to see you provide any source that actually states it...

 

[KingKhanWC]

You keep repeating this but I'm yet to see you provide any source that actually states it...

Here is another one who only likes to ask but has no views of her/his own.

Care to comment on the conflict and clarify your position first?

 

[HitWicket]

Here is another one who only likes to ask but has no views of her/his own.

Care to comment on the conflict and clarify your position first?

No thanks. If people are having to make up facts, as you clearly have (yet again) in this case, then they clearly can't debate in good faith and it's not worthwhile.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No thanks. If people are having to make up facts, as you clearly have (yet again) in this case, then they clearly can't debate in good faith and it's not worthwhile.

When you dont have a mind of your own or a stance its easy to attack or demand from others as you have nothing to defend. Stick to cricket and dont come here to hit your own wicket.

Here they openly trained kids which is illegal under Int law. Russian sources show some killed in conflict too.

 

[HitWicket]

When you dont have a mind of your own or a stance its easy to attack or demand from others as you have nothing to defend. Stick to cricket and dont come here to hit your own wicket.

Here they openly trained kids which is illegal under Int law. Russian sources show some killed in conflict too.

Still waiting on that source for kids being sent to war...

Teaching kids how to use a gun is illegal under international law? Another laughable made up fact.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Still waiting on that source for kids being sent to war...

Teaching kids how to use a gun is illegal under international law? Another laughable false fact.

lol.

They are teaching them to use guns in war. Or acc to you they will be shooting at wickets? )

 

[HitWicket]

lol.

They are teaching them to use guns in war. Or acc to you they will be shooting at wickets? )

It would be illegal if they were recruiting said children into the military, however you're still yet to provide any source that they're actually doing that as you've claimed. Military personnel training children to shoot breaks no international laws, and even happens in the UK from as young as 9.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It would be illegal if they were recruiting said children into the military, however you're still yet to provide any source that they're actually doing that as you've claimed. Military personnel training children to shoot breaks no international laws, and even happens in the UK from as young as 9.

What do you think they are recruiting them for?

The source is in front of your eyes or are you looking at the non-strikers wicket.

Nazis training children to fight against Russia. How hard is this for you to see and understand?

 

[HitWicket]

It would be illegal if they were recruiting said children into the military

And using them in conflict*

 

[HitWicket]

What do you think they are recruiting them for?

The source is in front of your eyes or are you looking at the non-strikers wicket.

Nazis training children to fight against Russia. How hard is this for you to see and understand?

Once again, training children to shoot breaks no international laws (as you've claimed it does). Recruiting them into a military AND putting them directly into hostilities does.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Once again, training children to shoot breaks no international laws (as you've claimed it does). Recruiting them into a military AND putting them directly into hostilities does.

Stop you’re embarrassing now .

They are being trained with lethal weapons to use against Russia . It’s clear as a hit wicket in cricket .

 

[daytrader]

BBC crew and aid workers under fire in Ukraine

A BBC team has come under fire in Ukraine while following a group of local aid workers.

The volunteers deliver food to villages in southern Ukraine and have continued to work well within artillery range of Russian troops.

As our BBC team witnessed, the work frequently comes close to costing them their lives.

 

[Robert]

Bones has given a good reply already.

As for children, Ukraine are illegally sending kids to war. Its absurd for anyone to even think Ukraine is following the law.

Lets not blame the kit, Brits were overwhelmed by the great Afghan resistance, they just couldnt handle the heat in the kitchen.

PTSD is an excuse usually for because they or their mates have killed some innocent person inc a child. Dont go to war if you cant handle it but I guess holding guns to poor Afghan children and women makes these clowns think they are heros.

Russia is very competent as seen in Syria and now in Ukraine. You wish they werent and have started to believe your own desires. Heck the UK cant even uses its nukes without USA saying yes.

I don’t read Bones’s posts. He’s just repeating Kremlin propaganda. He’ll be telling us the British are eating squirrels next (this is an actual Russian news story). Others said that Europeans would freeze to death over the winter but they didn’t and the price of fuel is dropping again.

Conversely [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] is interesting to debate with because he shows a degree of neutrality and considered intellectual rigour.

Thread is about the Russo-Ukraine war, not the British military. So I will step away from your strawman.

You’re not bothering to argue my posts any more, just denying and restating your own. Of course Russia did well in Syria verses rebels with no heavy weapons and no air support. But now they are fighting an intractable and better equipped foe who will not give up, and they have got bogged down for all the reasons given. This continually amazes me as I expected Kyiv to fall in a month. The bear isn’t what he was in 1980 when all of Europe was terrified of that gigantic tank army, and it’s fascinating to look at why this has happened.

 

[captain.hansolo]

I don’t read Bones’s posts. He’s just repeating Kremlin propaganda. He’ll be telling us the British are eating squirrels next (this is an actual Russian news story). Others said that Europeans would freeze to death over the winter but they didn’t and the price of fuel is dropping again.

Conversely [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] is interesting to debate with because he shows a degree of neutrality and considered intellectual rigour.

Thread is about the Russo-Ukraine war, not the British military. So I will step away from your strawman.

You’re not bothering to argue my posts any more, just denying and restating your own. Of course Russia did well in Syria verses rebels with no heavy weapons and no air support. But now they are fighting an intractable and better equipped foe who will not give up, and they have got bogged down for all the reasons given. This continually amazes me as I expected Kyiv to fall in a month. The bear isn’t what he was in 1980 when all of Europe was terrified of that gigantic tank army, and it’s fascinating to look at why this has happened.

I second this, I think engaging [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] is worthwhile whereas bones technic khan et all are not here for a serious discussion just some vitriolic jargon. I am attempting to determine if there is a way to suppress their responses in how the forum renders for me.

 

[bones]

In my previous post I explain in great detail why the conflict is where it is. Robert and others don’t bother to accept the truth instead calling it propaganda.

 

[Technics 1210]

In my previous post I explain in great detail why the conflict is where it is. Robert and others don’t bother to accept the truth instead calling it propaganda.

Afraid of the truth.

Their liberal/MSM claims were proven to be lies after 12 months. Putin has cancer, Russia is out of missiles. Russia's economy will tank etc - all proved wrong. The best one was "this war will be over in a few months", well we are now in the second year. Their sources were ridiculed, so all they have left is the usual "Propaganda" cries, and Godwin's Law.

Now even westerners are questioning NATO's involvement, but we have Liberals who think they are living in the 1950s!

The real loser in all of this, Germany! Though I cannot say that I will shed a tear once EU implodes.