The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[the Great Khan]

About 10 days ago MSM and it's followers like cpleigh claimed the Russians were retreating from Bakhmut or about to. I said we need to hold on and see what happens. Well today Bakhmut town has fallen.

I told them days ago that it has practically fallen. They were burning the place down.

This is the first time in modern warfare that a private army has defeated a trained country's armed force. The numbers Ukraine has lost are staggering:


- The 21st Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was defeated
- 10 brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine completely lost their combat capability
- 57,000 APU men killed and over 85,000 injured
- Destroyed more than 10,000 pieces of equipment and weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
- More than 50 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were shot down in the sky over Bakhmut
- Destroyed more than 6.5 thousand foreign mercenaries
- more than 100,000 units. Small arms lost APU
- more than 35000 units of Weapons were captured by PMC Wagner during the battles for Soledar and Bakhmut.

Mind boggling. Why throw so many into this meat grinder? We hear it was insignificant so why?

Clearly it was significant. The final defence line is now under attack.

 

[captain.hansolo]

I told them days ago that it has practically fallen. They were burning the place down.

This is the first time in modern warfare that a private army has defeated a trained country's armed force. The numbers Ukraine has lost are staggering:


- The 21st Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was defeated
- 10 brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine completely lost their combat capability
- 57,000 APU men killed and over 85,000 injured
- Destroyed more than 10,000 pieces of equipment and weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
- More than 50 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were shot down in the sky over Bakhmut
- Destroyed more than 6.5 thousand foreign mercenaries
- more than 100,000 units. Small arms lost APU
- more than 35000 units of Weapons were captured by PMC Wagner during the battles for Soledar and Bakhmut.

Mind boggling. Why throw so many into this meat grinder? We hear it was insignificant so why?

Clearly it was significant. The final defence line is now under attack.

please post sources.

 

[captain.hansolo]

That was in the 1980's. We used them to good effect against hindustan too. But they were not alone. An airforce cannot function without good electronic warfare and network centricity. Also what missile and radars will these versions have.

The Russians will definitely now use their SU57 and SU35 to take them on. It took Pakistan nearly 50 years to really master the F16. And we are lucky we have confronted a bunch of clowns.

Ukraine will confront the full main Russian AF. I will be very interested to see how this confrontation works out.

As for Bakhmut. Lol. Ukraine occupy one street. It will be gone by tonight. The Russians have also flattened Adviika and now regular troops are entering the fray. Also more chechens. By the way the head of the Ukraine army is reportedly missing. Russians think they killed him in bakhmut..

Zelensky is getting desperate. 40 F16s are not enough to change the war. They will be going up against three times as many Russian aircraft and electronic jamming. NATO will have to help. This is getting ever more dangerous.

when was this? in the 1999 conflict, neither country used their premier aircraft in the conflict for fear of loss ahead of any further escalation. i believe india lost a few obsolete Mig aircrafts, but pakistani air force was not invovled. apart from then, there have been no engagements between the two countries since 1971, and pakistan did not receive F16s till the 1980s.

In fact, there has been no direct engagement of the two air forces in over 50 years.

 

[daytrader]

Zelensky joins Ukraine talks on final day at G7

We're halfway through the final day in Hiroshima where G7 leaders are having their Ukraine meeting with Volodymyr Zelensky.

Here's what took place earlier:

• Zelensky appeared with the G7 leaders at their joint working session on the war in Ukraine
• French President Emmanuel Macron said the Ukraine leader's surprise appearance was a "game changer" in mobilising global support for Ukraine
• Already, the G7 leaders have mentioned more sanctions and the US has approved the option of allies sending F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine
• That's been a big win for Zelensky, who had been lobbying for the advanced aircraft for months
• He has already met with the leaders of the UK, India, France and Canada, and has a meeting with the US President this afternoon
• It's hoped his presence at the meeting could also induce more support from 'Global South' countries such as Brazil and India - also at the summit.
• The leaders of South Korea and Japan met this morning in another breakthrough in their warming relations

...
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-65647898

 

[daytrader]

Putin congratulates Russia troops, Wagner for ‘capturing Bakhmut’
Russian claims of capturing Bakhmut came hours after Ukraine said the battle for the eastern city was continuing.

Russia has claimed to have fully captured Ukraine’s Bakhmut, with President Vladimir Putin congratulating his troops and the mercenary Wagner Group for taking the largely levelled eastern city.

The Russian announcement on Saturday came hours after Kyiv said the battle was still continuing while admitting the situation was “critical”.

Bakhmut, a salt-mining town that once had a population of 70,000 people, has been the scene of the longest and bloodiest battle in Russia’s 15-month war in Ukraine.

The fall of Bakhmut, where both Russia and Ukraine are believed to have suffered huge losses, would represent Moscow’s first big victory in the conflict in more than 10 months.

“As a result of offensive actions of the Wagner assault units, with the support of artillery and aviation of the ‘Southern’ unit, the liberation of the city of Artemovsk was completed,” Russia’s defence ministry said in a statement, using the Soviet-era name of Bakhmut.

“Vladimir Putin congratulated the assault units of Wagner as well as all servicemen of units of the Russian armed forces who provided them with the necessary support and flank cover, on the completion of the operation to liberate” the city, the TASS state news agency quoted a Kremlin statement as saying.

The Russian president said those who had distinguished themselves would be given awards, the news agency added.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...es-russia-troops-wagner-for-capturing-bakhmut

 

[MenInG]

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky appears to have confirmed that Russia has won the long-running and bloody battle for the city of Bakhmut.

Asked on Sunday whether Ukraine had control of the eastern Ukrainian city, Zelensky said: "I think not."

The city had been destroyed, he said. The leader of the Wagner Russian paramilitary group said in a video on Saturday that his forces had captured the city - a claim Ukrainian officials initially denied.

Analysts say that Bakhmut is of little strategic value to Moscow, but its capture is a symbolic victory for Russia after the longest battle of the Ukraine war so far.

Western officials estimate between 20,000 and 30,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in Bakhmut, while Ukraine's military has also paid a heavy price.

 

[bones]

Western officials estimate between 20,000 and 30,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in Bakhmut, while Ukraine's military has also paid a heavy price.

Exhibit A of the propaganda machine. Hapy to give Russian figures but never Ukraine.

Russia have lost a fraction of what the Ukranians have lost in this town.

 

[the Great Khan]

when was this? in the 1999 conflict, neither country used their premier aircraft in the conflict for fear of loss ahead of any further escalation. i believe india lost a few obsolete Mig aircrafts, but pakistani air force was not invovled. apart from then, there have been no engagements between the two countries since 1971, and pakistan did not receive F16s till the 1980s.

In fact, there has been no direct engagement of the two air forces in over 50 years.

You need to get your facts straight. Look up operation swift retort. Clearly you are ignorant about the PAF and what it didn't few years ago. F16's took down a MiG21 and a Su30 of the IAF. They also provided cover for a daylight strike on India. Using heavy jamming and the element of surprise. Also our intelligence services are heavily imbedded within their forces..

We also used the Aim120c. Which ukraine prob won't get but we shall see. The F16 has never gone up against anything like the SU57.

 

[bones]

Still waiting for our resident pro Ukraine/Nato members to explain what happened in Bakhmut.

- If it is only symbolic then why did Ukraine spend nearly a year fighting to keep it?
- If Ukraine are mounting counter offensives along the flanks, why now and not a year ago when it was easier?
- When if ever is this Ukrainian spring offensive happening? It's almost summer now...

 

[MenInG]

A defiant Volodymyr Zelensky has insisted Bakhmut "is not occupied" by Russia after a Moscow-backed mercenary group had claimed control.

Ukraine's president was speaking during a scene-stealing visit to Hiroshima, Japan, for the G7 summit.

Wagner founder Yevgeny Prigozhin had earlier claimed victory in Bakhmut.

But Ukrainian military sources told the BBC they still had control of a handful of buildings on the outskirts of the city.

At a press conference on the final day of the summit, Mr Zelensky refused to provide precise details. But he said the city, where the war's longest and bloodiest battle has raged since August, was "not occupied" by Russia "as of today".

"There are no two or three interpretations of those words," he added, after earlier confusion about his remarks on the status of the city.

Mr Zelensky compared Bakhmut to Hiroshima, which was hit by an atomic bomb in World War Two, promising a similar "reconstruction" of his country.

It was in a video posted on Saturday that Wagner's Mr Prigozhin claimed his fighters - who have led the Russian assault on Bakhmut - were in full control of the city. Ukraine quickly denied it.

Earlier on Sunday, Mr Zelensky visited the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park with Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida - when the United States dropped the bomb on the city in 1945.

Mr Zelensky laid a wreath for those who were killed in the attack.

BBC

 

[cpleigh]

Still waiting for our resident pro Ukraine/Nato members to explain what happened in Bakhmut.

- If it is only symbolic then why did Ukraine spend nearly a year fighting to keep it?
- If Ukraine are mounting counter offensives along the flanks, why now and not a year ago when it was easier?
- When if ever is this Ukrainian spring offensive happening? It's almost summer now...

Ukraine have exhausted Russian troops, and have now pulled back whilst attacking Russia on the flanks to NOW encircle Russians in the City.

Its called the Hedgehog manourve... a classic military plan. I think i TOLD you this ages ago.

Oh.... looks like Free Russia forces have attacked Belograd with Armoured vehicles and tanks.

 

[the Great Khan]

Ukraine have exhausted Russian troops, and have now pulled back whilst attacking Russia on the flanks to NOW encircle Russians in the City.

Its called the Hedgehog manourve... a classic military plan. I think i TOLD you this ages ago.

Oh.... looks like Free Russia forces have attacked Belograd with Armoured vehicles and tanks.

You mean Ukrainian forces. I guess the march to Moscow is on.

As for the hedgehog..erm ok I guess if that gives you some comfort..

 

[cpleigh]

You mean Ukrainian forces. I guess the march to Moscow is on.

As for the hedgehog..erm ok I guess if that gives you some comfort..

No its Russians fighting against Putin with the help of Ukraine i'm sure.

 

[bones]

No its Russians fighting against Putin with the help of Ukraine i'm sure.

Are these Russians riding on pink unicorns?

 

[the Great Khan]

No its Russians fighting against Putin with the help of Ukraine i'm sure.

Russians don't have access to American humvees and mrraaps. They are Ukrainian forces using asymmetric tactics. Perfectly logical in a war like this.

 

[JaDed]

For a city of 70k how many in total got killed shakes my head.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The liberation of Bakhmut by Wagner will go down in history of the one greatest victories in a battle/war.

A security firm made up much by ex prisoners managed to draw in tens of thousands of Ukrainians, so called int brigades made up with Americans, Polish, Brits and others into the meat grinder which were then taken out.

The huge amount of Nato money and weapons has failed, their proxy war in tatters now.

Russia should now move towards Odessa, they have already bombed many routes towards this historic town.

It was hilarious Zelensky admitted defeat but a few hours later, changed his tune after being told off by his masters. West and Ukraine will continue to fool their people into thinking they are winning.

 

[the Great Khan]

Still waiting for our resident pro Ukraine/Nato members to explain what happened in Bakhmut.

- If it is only symbolic then why did Ukraine spend nearly a year fighting to keep it?
- If Ukraine are mounting counter offensives along the flanks, why now and not a year ago when it was easier?
- When if ever is this Ukrainian spring offensive happening? It's almost summer now...

Bakhmut holds right? I despair at the disconnect. The more they disconnect the longer this tragedy will last.

 

[bones]

Bakhmut holds right? I despair at the disconnect. The more they disconnect the longer this tragedy will last.

Sky news ran with 2 "experts" claiming Bakhmut is a draw or pyrrich victory.

 

[the Great Khan]

Sky news ran with 2 "experts" claiming Bakhmut is a draw or pyrrich victory.

Same type of experts who probably said Iraq had wmd. These people have zero clue. Just look at the map and numbers. Zelensky said himself that bakhmut was the doorway to the rest of the donbass.

Already I'm reading Russian forces are pushing forward quickly..let's see what happens...perhaps the AFU can counter attack and hold their lines..at the moment it doesn't look that way..

 

[KingKhanWC]

Same type of experts who probably said Iraq had wmd. These people have zero clue. Just look at the map and numbers. Zelensky said himself that bakhmut was the doorway to the rest of the donbass.

Already I'm reading Russian forces are pushing forward quickly..let's see what happens...perhaps the AFU can counter attack and hold their lines..at the moment it doesn't look that way..

Russia have been preparing to liberate Odessa. For over a month now , Russian missiles have been making a path to this town and destroying paths for weapons from Nato to defend this town. Not long ago..

Russia Bombs Odesa Airport Runway As Offensive Continues In Ukraine's East

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-peace-talks-lavrov-evacuations/31828188.html

Ukraine still has time to make some sort of deal, even to save their country from total collapse but Zelensky has promised his masters he will go to the end, when they paid him millions.

 

[cpleigh]

Russia is getting nowhere near Odessa. Thats pure fantasy land stuff.

 

[bones]

Russia is getting nowhere near Odessa. Thats pure fantasy land stuff.

They're not running to your schedule. Every field is loaded with mines. Every farm & garage & house could be be trapped. The Russians are taking their time to avoid casualties.

The Russians can go to Odessa, they have the numbers - but this is real life not call of duty so stay patient.

 

[cpleigh]

You are absolutely delusional. Russia can't even keep what they gained at the start of their invasion. Christ, they can't even protect their own borders now.

Got to say... some top trolling from the 'Free Russia' troops who've invaded.

'We are conducting a Special Military operation at the request of the citizens of Belogorod' ha ha, they should call a referendum and tell the world 99% of the citizens voted for independance.

 

[bones]

You are absolutely delusional. Russia can't even keep what they gained at the start of their invasion. Christ, they can't even protect their own borders now.

Got to say... some top trolling from the 'Free Russia' troops who've invaded.

'We are conducting a Special Military operation at the request of the citizens of Belogorod' ha ha, they should call a referendum and tell the world 99% of the citizens voted for independance.

Shall I dig up your posts claiming the Russians would run out of missiles and ammunition by x date? The western media are not reporting it but almost on a daily basis the Russians are now bombing warehouses and other supplies.

The irony of you calling others delusional when just 2 weeks ago you said the Wagner group were withdrawing from Bakhmut - only to see Wagner capture the entire city, every last square inch.

 

[bones]

The west may be talking the big game, but various reports suggest they are running out of patience and want the Ukraine to mount this counter offensive. How long can you keep throwing money into the failed Ukrainian project whilst your economies are suffering huge inflation.

The problem for the Ukrainians is they can't do anything to the far east because it's a long way away and logistics would need to be in place first - not happening.

The Ukrainians can't cross the river and attack from Kherson it would be suicidal so the only realistic option is down south from Zaporahozia toward Melitopol, but the Russians have been incredibly deep defences. They Ukrainians would suffer huge losses. I just don't see anything beyond these small probing attacks.

 

[cpleigh]

Shall I dig up your posts claiming the Russians would run out of missiles and ammunition by x date? The western media are not reporting it but almost on a daily basis the Russians are now bombing warehouses and other supplies.

The irony of you calling others delusional when just 2 weeks ago you said the Wagner group were withdrawing from Bakhmut - only to see Wagner capture the entire city, every last square inch.

should we dig up all yours about Russia winning in a week... then 3... then 6 months... now its 'Russias winning cos its bombed a few warehouses'

They haven't captured every square inch have they? Just because Russia claimed it (Again i might add) doesn't make it true.

So Wagner lied... just like all the Russians do. I see their defence ministry has announced that 70 sabotuers have been killed and thety've pushed them all back into Ukraine...

Literally 5 mins later news broke that Russia has been invaded from 2 more directions and vids of the Free Russia soldiers laughing and joking driving tanks around in Russia with no defence.

Of course you won't see this on RT ot TASS or Scott ritters youtube channel. Only the 'MSM' that you seem to fear so much.

They have advanced more in 24 hours than Russia has in 8 months in Bakhmhut

 

[the Great Khan]

You are absolutely delusional. Russia can't even keep what they gained at the start of their invasion. Christ, they can't even protect their own borders now.

Got to say... some top trolling from the 'Free Russia' troops who've invaded.

'We are conducting a Special Military operation at the request of the citizens of Belogorod' ha ha, they should call a referendum and tell the world 99% of the citizens voted for independance.

You know they are all dead now right? They had about a handful of vehicles...a minor clown lead operation..achieved zero objectives.

 

[cpleigh]

You know they are all dead now right? They had about a handful of vehicles...a minor clown lead operation..achieved zero objectives.

Thats not true. Just because Russia says it is... do some of you ever learn? What Russia says and whats reality are not the same.

Literally 30 mins ago they have uploaded a video of them crossing the border with Grayovon.

Thats after Russia has 'apparently' killed them all.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Russia is getting nowhere near Odessa. Thats pure fantasy land stuff.

Russia have bombed the airport and many roads,bridges and infastructure near the city.

Its just a matter of time.

Ukrainians are done like a kipper Mr Leigh, but please continue reading BBC, CNN to give you some comfort.

 

[the Great Khan]

Thats not true. Just because Russia says it is... do some of you ever learn? What Russia says and whats reality are not the same.

Literally 30 mins ago they have uploaded a video of them crossing the border with Grayovon.

Thats after Russia has 'apparently' killed them all.

Ok..what ever you say..I'm just looking at this objectively. You sound desperate. What skin in this game do you have? This isn't our war and never will be. This border excursion is a useless futile m9ve..means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Waste of time..they should be concentrating on their counter offensive not wasting men on such silly ops.

 

[bones]

Even this pilot thinks the F16s won't make a difference.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-f-16-pilot-aircraft-no-fighting-chance-over-ukraine-2023-5

 

[KingKhanWC]

Even this pilot thinks the F16s won't make a difference.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-f-16-pilot-aircraft-no-fighting-chance-over-ukraine-2023-5

Sending F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine would make no “fundamental change” to the war, the U.S. Air Force secretary said.

“It will give Ukrainians an increment of capability that they don't have right now, but it's not going to be a dramatic game-changer, as far as I'm concerned, for their total military capabilities,” Frank Kendall told reporters Monday during a Defense Writers Group event.

https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2...raines-war-effort-usaf-secretary-says/386645/

He's not the only one.

It takes months to train on F16's. Even if ready before Ukraine is finished off, F16's will be shot down by Russia.

Its interesting the US will not send any of its fleet but wants Europeans to hand theirs over. Are they deliberately trying to weaken Europe for some reason?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Btw where is the Zaluzhny ? Some reports suggesting he is injured in some sort of attack. Have Ukraine confirmed this?

 

[Technics 1210]

Btw where is the Zaluzhny ? Some reports suggesting he is injured in some sort of attack. Have Ukraine confirmed this?

Another photo shoot?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Another photo shoot?

Possibly powdering his nose ready for a photoshoot in hospital.

Acc to some reports he was seriously injured in Dnipropetrovsk region. Russians have said he hasnt been seen for over 2 weeks now. Ukranians are saying he is busy working.

I think Russia knows something, he may well be out of the country planning a coup as he knows the war is over.

Or he may appear again. Not a lot of info on this guy.

 

[daytrader]

US distances itself from Belgorod incursion into Russia

The US has distanced itself from an incursion into Russia - which Moscow says ended in the defeat of armed insurgents who entered from Ukraine.

Parts of the border region of Belgorod came under attack on Monday, in one of the most major cross-border raids since Russia invaded its neighbour last year.

Russia later released pictures of abandoned or damaged Western military vehicles, including US-made Humvees.

The US insisted it did not "encourage or enable strikes inside of Russia".

A state department spokesman acknowledged reports "circulating on social media and elsewhere" that US-supplied weapons had been used, but said his country was "sceptical at this time of the veracity of these reports."

In a news briefing on Tuesday, Matthew Miller added: "it is up to Ukraine to decide how to conduct this war."

Villages in Belgorod near the border were evacuated after coming under shellfire. Russia says 70 attackers were killed, and has insisted the fighters were Ukrainian.

But Kyiv denies involvement - and two Russian paramilitary groups opposed to Russian President Vladimir Putin say they were behind the incursion.

Monday's raid led Moscow to declare a counter-terrorism operation, giving the authorities special powers to clamp down on communications and people's movements.

The measures were only lifted the following afternoon, and even then, one of the paramilitary groups was claiming it still controlled a "small, but our own piece of the Motherland".

Belgorod's governor said one civilian had died during the violence, and that several others had been injured.

In a later development, Vyacheslav Gladkov said on Tuesday evening that Belgorod had come under fresh attack from a drone which dropped an explosive device and damaged a car.

BBC

 

[bones]

Thats not true. Just because Russia says it is... do some of you ever learn? What Russia says and whats reality are not the same.

Literally 30 mins ago they have uploaded a video of them crossing the border with Grayovon.

Thats after Russia has 'apparently' killed them all.

Do you ever learn? A few minutes after that video the Russian MoD released videos of the the obliterated vehicles. Some big bombs were used.

As I said many times, count to 1000, take a deep breath and then get giddy over what MSM says. Almost every thing that they tell you is a lie.

MSM and you think that the Russians suffered more losses in bakhmut. What does one say to craziness like that? The Russians have 8 times more artillery and ammunition - it's impossible for Ukraine to not suffer more losses.

 

[the Great Khan]

https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2...raines-war-effort-usaf-secretary-says/386645/

He's not the only one.

It takes months to train on F16's. Even if ready before Ukraine is finished off, F16's will be shot down by Russia.

Its interesting the US will not send any of its fleet but wants Europeans to hand theirs over. Are they deliberately trying to weaken Europe for some reason?

No. These will be older model F16's. Even Pakistan decided not to go for them. They'll need upgrading and potential MLU mid life upgrades. I can't see them being used for air to air combat..they do have good ground attack capability..but I suspect the Russians will bomb their air field and destroy as many as they can on the ground..

 

[cpleigh]

Do you ever learn? A few minutes after that video the Russian MoD released videos of the the obliterated vehicles. Some big bombs were used.

As I said many times, count to 1000, take a deep breath and then get giddy over what MSM says. Almost every thing that they tell you is a lie.

MSM and you think that the Russians suffered more losses in bakhmut. What does one say to craziness like that? The Russians have 8 times more artillery and ammunition - it's impossible for Ukraine to not suffer more losses.

Them videos have ALREADY been debunked. They have been geo located in Ukraine NOT Russia.

Maybe you should learn... and stop believing every fairy tale on Kremlin TV

 

[bones]

Them videos have ALREADY been debunked. They have been geo located in Ukraine NOT Russia.

Maybe you should learn... and stop believing every fairy tale on Kremlin TV

Even your beloved MSM is running with them. Cope harder.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65691844

 

[the Great Khan]

Them videos have ALREADY been debunked. They have been geo located in Ukraine NOT Russia.

Maybe you should learn... and stop believing every fairy tale on Kremlin TV

So can you clarify. If those videos are wrong then Belograd should still be occupied and of that is the case using logic it will form a beach head into Russia. If this is the case fighting should be intensive and we should be hearing reports of more Ukrainians moving into the beach head. This is not happening. There is no real fighting there at the moment and 2ven the US has distanced itself from the raid.

It was a cross border raid that had no objectives other than to get Bakhmut off the headlines.

 

[daytrader]

Wagner chief says 20,000 of its troops killed in Bakhmut battle
Yevgeny Prigozhin repeats criticism of Russia’s top brass and warns high number of fatalities is a risk to the country.

Some 20,000 troops from Russia’s Wagner mercenary group were killed in the months-long battle for control of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, its founder has said.

Yevgeny Prigozhin said he had recruited about 50,000 prisoners to fight with Wagner in Russia’s war in Ukraine and that about 20 percent of them had been killed.

A similar number of his contract soldiers had also perished in the battle for the city, he told Russian political strategist Konstantin Dolgov in a video interview posted on his Telegram channel on Wednesday.

This weekend, Wagner and the Russian military claimed to have taken control of Bakhmut, which has been left in ruins by the prolonged fighting, with Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulating the armed forces. But Kyiv has said its forces continue to fight for the city.

Prigozhin, a businessman whose influence has deepened since Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine more than a year ago, has scathingly criticised the country’s military leadership, accusing Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov of incompetence.

If ordinary Russians continued getting their children back in coffins while the children of the elite “shook their arses” in the sun, he warned in his latest video, Russia would face turmoil along the lines of 1917 that brought the Bolsheviks to power.

“This divide can end as in 1917 with a revolution,” he said.

“First, the soldiers will stand up and after that, their loved ones will rise up,” he said. “There are already tens of thousands of them – relatives of those killed. And there will probably be hundreds of thousands – we cannot avoid that.”

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle

 

[Gilly]

Wagner chief says 20,000 of its troops killed in Bakhmut battle
Yevgeny Prigozhin repeats criticism of Russia’s top brass and warns high number of fatalities is a risk to the country.

Some 20,000 troops from Russia’s Wagner mercenary group were killed in the months-long battle for control of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, its founder has said.

Yevgeny Prigozhin said he had recruited about 50,000 prisoners to fight with Wagner in Russia’s war in Ukraine and that about 20 percent of them had been killed.

A similar number of his contract soldiers had also perished in the battle for the city, he told Russian political strategist Konstantin Dolgov in a video interview posted on his Telegram channel on Wednesday.

This weekend, Wagner and the Russian military claimed to have taken control of Bakhmut, which has been left in ruins by the prolonged fighting, with Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulating the armed forces. But Kyiv has said its forces continue to fight for the city.

Prigozhin, a businessman whose influence has deepened since Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine more than a year ago, has scathingly criticised the country’s military leadership, accusing Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov of incompetence.

If ordinary Russians continued getting their children back in coffins while the children of the elite “shook their arses” in the sun, he warned in his latest video, Russia would face turmoil along the lines of 1917 that brought the Bolsheviks to power.

“This divide can end as in 1917 with a revolution,” he said.

“First, the soldiers will stand up and after that, their loved ones will rise up,” he said. “There are already tens of thousands of them – relatives of those killed. And there will probably be hundreds of thousands – we cannot avoid that.”

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle

Wagner is a terrorist group that have no value for life, they are the very nature of Nazism and supporters of this bloodthirsty attempt of genocide are also bloodthirsty nazi terrorists..

 

[MenInG]

The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group has announced that its forces have started withdrawing from the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has vowed to transfer control of the city to the Russian army by 1 June, but Kyiv says it still controls pockets of the city.

He said his forces were ready to return if the Russian regular army proved unable to manage the situation.

The battle for the city has been the longest and bloodiest of the war.

Wagner mercenaries have led the fighting there for the Russian side, and Mr Prigozhin this week said that 20,000 of its fighters had died in Bakhmut.

"We are withdrawing units from Bakhmut today," Mr Prigozhin said in a video released on Telegram from the destroyed city.

BBC Verify has geolocated the video to an area near a pharmacy in the east of Bakhmut.

Mr Prigozhin - who announced the capture of the city on Saturday - is seen telling his men to leave ammunition for the Russian army. He adds that some Wagner fighters will stay behind to assist Russian troops.

"The moment when the military are in a tough situation, they will stand up," he says, before warning two fighters to not "bully the military".

The Wagner boss has repeatedly targeted top Russian military officials, criticising them publicly for not supporting his troops. Last month, he even threatened to pull his troops out of the city if they were not provided with much-needed ammunition.

Despite Wagner's claims to be handing over Bakhmut, Ukraine has not conceded that the city has fallen.

Ukraine's Deputy Defence Minister, Hanna Maliar, said on Thursday that its forces still control part of the Litak district in the southwest of the city.

"The enemy has replaced Wagner units in the suburbs with regular army troops. Inside the town proper, Wagner forces are still present," she posted on Telegram.

 

[bones]

Sanctions spectacularly backfiring.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/25/germany-sinks-recession-olaf-scholz-avoided/

 

[daytrader]

US says Russia cannot win in Ukraine, Moscow sees long war ahead
Russia’s former President Dmitry Medvedev said the war in Ukraine is likely to last decades with bouts of fighting and truces.

Russia will not achieve a military victory in Ukraine and Kyiv’s forces are unlikely to push back all Russian troops from their territory any time soon, the United State’s highest-ranking military official has said.

“This war, militarily, is not going to be won by Russia. It’s just not,” General Mark Milley, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday.

Russia’s original strategic objectives, including toppling the government in Kyiv, “are not achievable militarily”, Milley told journalists after the conclusion of a virtual meeting of dozens of countries that are members of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, which is also known as the Ramstein group.

There are also hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers in Ukraine, which would make Kyiv’s objective of recapturing all territory lost to Moscow’s forces unlikely “in the near term”, Milley said.

“That means fighting is going to continue, it’s going to be bloody, it’s going to be hard. And at some point, both sides will either negotiate a settlement or they’ll come to a military conclusion,” he said.

Milly’s assessment adds to a number of forecasts that the war in Ukraine appears set to drag on, with neither side positioned to win a clear-cut victory and no negotiations currently taking place.

Russia’s former President Dmitry Medvedev, a key ally of President Vladimir Putin, also said Moscow’s war in Ukraine could continue for decades.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...not-win-in-ukraine-moscow-sees-long-war-ahead

 

[bones]

If anyone had any doubt how bad the meat grinder of Bakhmut was for the AFU see WSJ reporting it:

https://archive.is/zPFVT

Ukraine have been sending guys with a week's training to the front against all that artillery and a private military organisation highly experienced.

 

[Adijazz1706]

If anyone had any doubt how bad the meat grinder of Bakhmut was for the AFU see WSJ reporting it:

https://archive.is/zPFVT

Ukraine have been sending guys with a week's training to the front against all that artillery and a private military organisation highly experienced.

They had no other option basically, it was always a terrible idea to abandon negotiations last April which has led to tbe current situation where Ukraine have lost almost all their proper soldiers and have 0 counter offensive capabilities despite the media bravado

 

[KingKhanWC]

Norway warns people to keep away from ‘spy’ whale for animal’s safety

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/24/europe/norway-spy-whale-warning-scli-intl/index.html



Hvaldimir is very cute.

Russia now can train whales it seems, better watch out Nato. )

 

[daytrader]

Explosions as Russia launches 15th air assault on Kyiv in May
Overnight missile attack comes a day after Russia unleashed its largest ever drone assault on the Ukrainian capital.

Several explosions have rocked the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, according to officials, in the 15th Russian air attack on the city this month and the second overnight attack in a row.

“A missile shot down near Kyiv,” Mayor Vitali Klitschko said on the Telegram messaging channel in the early hours of Monday. “Air defence working!”

He added that blasts were heard in several districts of the city, including Kyiv’s historic neighbourhood of Podil, where falling debris damaged the roof of a house.

According to preliminary information from the mayor and the city’s military administration, there were no casualties in the overnight attacks.

The attack on Monday, appearing to be a combination of missiles and drones, follows the largest drone barrage launched on Kyiv the previous night, which killed one person and wounded several more.

Officials said the city’s air defences shot down 40 drones in and around the capital in the early hours of Sunday.

Most of the drones were Iranian-made Shahed loitering munitions, the Kyiv Independent news website reported.

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy thanked the country’s air defence forces for protecting the country and asked its parliament to impose sanctions against Iran for supplying Russia with weapons, including the Shahed drones.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...ssia-launches-15th-air-assault-on-kyiv-in-may

 

[MenInG]

Russia has accused Ukraine of launching an early morning drone attack on Moscow, the first time the city has been targeted by multiple drones since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The defence ministry said Kyiv staged a "terrorist attack" with at least eight drones causing minor damage.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said no-one was seriously injured. Several drones fell on an exclusive western suburb where senior officials live.

Ukraine has denied the attack.

Presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said that Kyiv was not directly involved, but that Ukraine had enjoyed watching events unfold and predicted an increase in such incidents.

The strikes on Moscow followed an overnight drone attack on the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv in which at least one person was reported killed.

Ukrainian officials said falling debris set buildings on fire as Ukraine's air defences intercepted more than 20 drones.

Meanwhile, Russia's defence ministry said all eight drones targeting Moscow had been intercepted.

"Three of them were suppressed by electronic warfare, lost control and deviated from their intended targets. Another five drones were shot down by the Pantsir-S surface-to-air missile system in the Moscow region," the ministry said.

The aerial assaults struck some of Moscow's most prominent neighbourhoods. Areas hit include Leninsky Prospekt, a grand boulevard created under Josef Stalin.

A suburb of western Moscow where Russia's President Vladimir Putin has a residence, along with other members of the Russian elite, was also hit.

Earlier Russian media reports had said as many as 30 drones were involved. Authorities have also said several of them fell on buildings after being downed.

Mr Sobyanin said that some residents had been evacuated but were later allowed to return home. Two people had sought medical assistance, he said.

BBC

 

[daytrader]

Chechen troops said to mobilise as Russian children flee border
Russia’s Belgorod regional Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov says more than 1,000 children due for evacuation from border areas.

Fighters from Russia’s Chechnya region under the command of leader Ramzan Kadyrov have likely been ordered to take a leading role in the fighting in Ukraine in a week when the governor of Russia’s Belgorod region announced the evacuation of children amid ongoing cross-border attacks from Ukraine.

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW), a Washington, DC-based think tank, said in its latest report on Thursday that Russian military commanders had likely ordered the Chechens into battle following the withdrawal of Wagner Group mercenary forces from the destroyed city of Bakhmut.

According to the ISW, Kadyrov claimed on Wednesday that his forces had received new orders and would be deploying to “active combat activities” to “liberate” a series of settlements after assuming responsibility for the front line in Ukraine’s southeast Donetsk region, which includes the contested city of Bakhmut.

Kadyrov said that Chechen special forces were preparing for offensive operations ahead of Ukraine’s expected counteroffensive to reclaim territory from Russian forces.

“The claimed return of Chechen forces to offensive operations would break Kadyrovites from a nearly yearlong hiatus from participating in high-intensity combat operations” in Ukraine, the ISW said.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...d-to-mobilise-as-russian-children-flee-border

 

[bones]

I've been busy with work and the football and tennis recently but it seems as if the Ukrainians have decided that attacking Moscow is the next stupid move they will make. No signs of a ceasefire and lindsay Graham should be sacked from his position for the disgraceful comments he made recently.

Still MSM continue with the lie that Ukraine is winning.

 

[the Great Khan]

I've been busy with work and the football and tennis recently but it seems as if the Ukrainians have decided that attacking Moscow is the next stupid move they will make. No signs of a ceasefire and lindsay Graham should be sacked from his position for the disgraceful comments he made recently.

Still MSM continue with the lie that Ukraine is winning.

Russians stormed Maryinka last night or the night before. Also storm shadows used to attack Russia proper. I have also read that the Ukrainian counter offensive in bakhmut was stopped again.

Finally the guardian had a good article on the new Ukrainian troops being trained. After reading that I fear for what's left of their forces..

 

[MenInG]

This is madness - Russia out of control

==

A two-year-old girl has been killed and 22 injured after an alleged Russian air strike in a residential area of Ukraine's central city Dnipro.

Her body was pulled from the rubble of a house in the Pidhorodnenska community overnight, the region's governor said.

Serhiy Lysak said five of those injured were children, with three boys in serious condition in hospital.

Earlier video shared by Ukraine's president showed rescuers searching the remains of a two-storey building.

Volodymyr Zelensky has blamed Russia for the attack, but the Kremlin has yet to comment on the events.

Explosions have also been heard over the capital, Kyiv, where air defence systems have again been deployed. The entire country placed under air raid alerts earlier.

Mr Zelensky described the blast in Dnipro as a deliberate Russian strike, although Russia has previously denied targeting civilians during its invasion of the neighbouring country.

Fires broke out following the alleged strike in a northern district of the city, according to the regional governor, who said 17 of those injured in the blast were taken to hospital.

Explosions were reported in other parts of the country. Air defence systems were engaged early Sunday in repelling air attacks near Kyiv, the head of the military administration of Ukrainian capital Kyiv said.

All missiles targeting the city were shot down, Serhiy Popko wrote on the Telegram messaging channel.

Officials in Sumy, in the north, recorded 87 blasts as a result of Russian shelling, speaking of injuries and destruction of infrastructure.

More than a dozen explosions were also reported in the Russian-occupied southern cities of Berdyansk and Melitopol, though details were scant. Explosions have also been reported in the central city of Kropyvnitsky.

In Russia, officials said on Saturday that two more people had been killed in fresh attacks in the border region of Belgorod.

Local authorities said Ukraine was to blame, although Ukraine itself said the deaths were the result of Russia trying to target fighters who oppose the government in Moscow.

There has been a spate of attacks in the region in recent weeks, notably including a major cross-border incursion late last month which Moscow said ended in the deaths of 70 attackers.

Kyiv denied having any direct involvement, again saying the attack was mounted by Russian paramilitaries.

In other developments, a close aide of President Zelensky has said his country is not yet ready to begin its long-promised counter-offensive against occupying Russian soldiers.

Speaking to the UK's Sunday Times newspaper, Dr Ihor Zhovkva blamed a lack of weaponry and ammunition.

His words appeared at odds with those of Mr Zelensky, who was quoted just a day earlier saying Ukraine was ready to start the manoeuvre.

But inconsistent comments from Ukrainian officials may be a deliberate effort to confuse Moscow, the Sunday Times noted.

BBC

 

[KingKhanWC]

^ Any loss of life esp children is tragic in war.

But BBC isnt taken seriously by majority of Brits these days. BBC is a government run news media.


Ukraine on Sunday started their new offensive, trying to break through some 'weak' points in the Russian lines of defence. The Russian were ready which resulted in huge mass causalities on the Ukrainian side.

Meanwhile The British foreign secretary, James Cleverly was in Ukraine, warmongering some more.

UK needs to be careful as Russia will retaliate in some way.

 

[MenInG]

Ukrainian forces are "shifting to offensive actions" in some areas, the country's Deputy Defence Minister Hanna Malyar has said.

Ukrainian military sources told the BBC that a series of small scale armoured offensive operations are under way.

They did not say whether this was the start of Ukraine's long awaited full scale counter-offensive.

Earlier, Russia's defence ministry said it thwarted a major Ukrainian attack in Donetsk.

Ms Malyar described the eastern city of Bakhmut as the "epicentre of hostilities", and claimed Russian forces were on the defence there as well as in the south.

The commander of Ukraine's ground forces, Gen Oleksandr Syrskyi, said troops were "moving forward" towards Bakhmut and had destroyed a Russian position near the city.

For months, the city has been at the heart of intense fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces.

The Russian paramilitary group Wagner had claimed to have captured the city. But in recent weeks, some analysts have suggested that Kyiv's forces are attempting to encircle Bakhmut and trap Russian units.

BBC

 

[daytrader]

Ukraine says Russian forces blew up Nova Kakhovka dam in Kherson
Ukraine military says ‘scale of the destruction’ and potential flooding from destroyed dam is being clarified

Ukraine’s military said that Russian forces have blown up a large dam in southern Ukraine, while the Moscow-installed official in the city of Nova Kakhovka in the Russian-controlled part of the Kherson region denied the claim.

“The Kakhovka [reservoir] was blown up by the Russian occupying forces,” the South command of Ukraine’s Armed Forces said on Tuesday on its Facebook page.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the army said.

Russian state news agency TASS cited an unnamed source close to the matter as saying the dam was destroyed and territory is flooding.

A second Russian state news agency, RIA Novosti, cited the Moscow-installed mayor of Nova Kakhovka as saying the dam had been hit by shelling he blamed on Ukraine.

“There were several hits” on the dam, he said, according to the news agency.

Ukraine’s military administration for the Kherson region called on people to be ready to evacuate from several villages on the right bank of the Dnieper River as water levels were rising following the destruction of the dam.

“The water level is rising and everyone who is in the danger zone must: Turn off all electrical appliances; take documents and essentials; take care of loved ones and pets; follow the instructions of rescuers and policemen,” the administration said on its Telegram messaging channel.

...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...n-forces-blew-up-nova-kakhovka-dam-in-kherson

 

[cpleigh]

Another war crime to add to the list. They must be desperate. In their desperation to slow the Ukraine advance they've effectively starved Crimea of water.

So much for liberating and protecting Russian speakers

 

[cpleigh]

^ Any loss of life esp children is tragic in war.

But BBC isnt taken seriously by majority of Brits these days. BBC is a government run news media.


Ukraine on Sunday started their new offensive, trying to break through some 'weak' points in the Russian lines of defence. The Russian were ready which resulted in huge mass causalities on the Ukrainian side.

Meanwhile The British foreign secretary, James Cleverly was in Ukraine, warmongering some more.

UK needs to be careful as Russia will retaliate in some way.

Those 'mass casualties' are a Russian claim with no evidence at all. Their numbers are so laughable I don't think anyone believes them.

 

[the Great Khan]

Another war crime to add to the list. They must be desperate. In their desperation to slow the Ukraine advance they've effectively starved Crimea of water.

So much for liberating and protecting Russian speakers

Why would the Russians destroy crimea's only water source. It makes zero sense. Why flood areas that you want to make part of Russia? Makes zero sense. As for the mighty counter offensive well clearly its going nowhere quickly.And how convenient this dam to collapse just at the time the offensive clearly looked like a bit of a disaster.

Finally what would Russia gain by losing the water supply to crimea? We known the Ukrainians had blocked water to crimea in the past and this would fit their modus operandi. Nearly everyone effected is Russian or Russian speaking. The Ukrainians have even said this shouldn't effect their power grid..again very convenient.

If I were to make an assessment Incan see two possibilities 1) the Ukrainians benefit the most from this therefore they have used storm shadow cruise missiles to take the dam out. This will make any crossing beyond the dnipro extremely problematic now.
2) continuous shelling in the area has weakened the dam and it simply collapsed.

The most implausible is the one the Americans and NATO are screaming about.

 

[the Great Khan]

Those 'mass casualties' are a Russian claim with no evidence at all. Their numbers are so laughable I don't think anyone believes them.

Actually the numbers are quite conservative..200 to 250..that's not that much compared to say Bakhmut etc..also if you assess the alleged videos posted the numbers aren't far off..9 MAXxPros are shown to be destroyed let's 10 casualties per vehicle. Well thats nearly a 100 already...add others from small arms or drone attacks and you can easily get to about 150 to 200..

 

[cpleigh]

they just want to cause as much damage to Ukraine as possible now. Putins given up trying to capture Ukraine. Crimea survived from 2014 to 2022 without the Canal, so he probably thinks it can again.

It's a disaster, absolute war crime. Innocent civilians lives ruined because of pure evilness from Russia. I honestly can't believe people STILL defend them. What more do you need? Slaughter in Bucha, Illegal deportation of Ukrainian children and now this.

 

[cpleigh]

Actually the numbers are quite conservative..200 to 250..that's not that much compared to say Bakhmut etc..also if you assess the alleged videos posted the numbers aren't far off..9 MAXxPros are shown to be destroyed let's 10 casualties per vehicle. Well thats nearly a 100 already...add others from small arms or drone attacks and you can easily get to about 150 to 200..

well the Russian defence ministry said last night 1500 dead and 23% of all Leoprad tanks destoyed.

So again... it's all ******** from them

 

[SalimBhai]

well the Russian defence ministry said last night 1500 dead and 23% of all Leoprad tanks destoyed.

So again... it's all ******** from them

The defense minister is about to fall out of a window any day now

 

[captain.hansolo]

Why would the Russians destroy crimea's only water source. It makes zero sense. Why flood areas that you want to make part of Russia? Makes zero sense. As for the mighty counter offensive well clearly its going nowhere quickly.And how convenient this dam to collapse just at the time the offensive clearly looked like a bit of a disaster.

Finally what would Russia gain by losing the water supply to crimea? We known the Ukrainians had blocked water to crimea in the past and this would fit their modus operandi. Nearly everyone effected is Russian or Russian speaking. The Ukrainians have even said this shouldn't effect their power grid..again very convenient.

If I were to make an assessment Incan see two possibilities 1) the Ukrainians benefit the most from this therefore they have used storm shadow cruise missiles to take the dam out. This will make any crossing beyond the dnipro extremely problematic now.
2) continuous shelling in the area has weakened the dam and it simply collapsed.

The most implausible is the one the Americans and NATO are screaming about.

You speculate a lot with very limited information and unreliable and inaccurate reporting.

 

[MenInG]

A state of emergency has been declared after a dam in a Russian-controlled part of southern Ukraine has been irrevocably damaged by an explosion, leading to flooding in the area already hit by months of conflict.

Russian state-owned news agency TASS reported that the decree was made by local Moscow-backed authorities around the Nova Kakhovka dam.

The Russian-installed administration of Ukraine's Kherson region said evacuations were being prepared in the Nova Kakhovka, Golo Pristan and Oleshky districts, the latter two across the mouth of the Dnipro river from the Ukrainian-held regional capital, Kherson.

Wagner chief claims Russia used 'lethal force' against mercenaries - Ukraine latest

The water level in the town of Nova Kakhovka is now up by 11 metres, according to its Russian-installed mayor, who said that the town was now underwater and that around 600 houses had been flooded.

"The water continues to mount. An evacuation is being carried out of civilians from the adjacent flooded zones to preserve all lives ... There is no panic in the town," Vladimir Leontyev said in a video message on Telegram.

An emergencies official alongside him said the water below the dam was expected to keep rising for 72 hours before subsiding and allowing a clean-up operation.

SKY

 

[sweep_shot]

This war is still going on.

Zelensky is using Ukrainians like cannon fodders. Why doesn't he go to front line and fight if he loves war so much?

 

[SalimBhai]

This war is still going on.

Zelensky is using Ukrainians like cannon fodders. Why doesn't he go to front line and fight if he loves war so much?

Why does putin not do that also?

 

[sweep_shot]

Why does putin not do that also?

Putin is open to negotiation. Zelensky wants to prolong the war.

 

[SalimBhai]

Putin is open to negotiation. Zelensky wants to prolong the war.

That’s not 100 accurate. But that still does not answer why does not putin go fight at the front line ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Those 'mass casualties' are a Russian claim with no evidence at all. Their numbers are so laughable I don't think anyone believes them.

Didnt you believe Russia had only 150 missiles remaining months ago?

Please ignore western MSM, they are parroting propaganda to further continue this brutal conflict. They dont care for Ukrainians.

They are now egging them on to do terrorist attacks.

Blowing up the dam earlier is another terrorist attack.

Reason, the Nazis are becoming desperate, Russia is taking them apart. A dangerous time as they will probably attack the nuclear reactor next.

 

[cpleigh]

Taking them apart?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Taking them apart?... ������

Even by EU estimates over 5 x Ukrainians have perished. The real numbers are higher.

A winning force does not turn to terrorist attacks. Sadly for them most of the UK/US weapons are scrap now.

 

[bones]

Taking them apart?...

The Ukrainians are begging everyone for weapons and ammunition. Seems like they have been taken apart and are relying on the west to keep them afloat. Ukraine is effectively the 51st state right now.

 

[bones]

I’m of the opinion that the Dam was not blown up by Ukraine or Russia but rather had been weakened significantly over the past year and succumbed to the pressure.

I see no reason for either side to blow it up. Russia needed the water and Ukraine didn’t need flooding coming in the way of their counter offensives.

 

[MenInG]

Ukrainian offensives near Bakhmut unsuccessful - Russia

As has been typical of the battle for Bakhmut so far, both sides have claimed victory in offensives around the devastated city in eastern Ukraine.

While the Ukrainians say they've made advances of up to 1.1km (0.7 miles) in the direction of the city, Russia says it has defeated its enemy's attacks near the city.

The defence ministry says Ukrainian forces mounted a series of "unsuccessful offensives" in the area - which has seen some of the deadliest fighting of the war.

The BBC has not been able to independently verify either side's claims.

 

[the Great Khan]

You speculate a lot with very limited information and unreliable and inaccurate reporting.

You didn't reply to any of my analysis above. I was right about bakhmut while you were all saying bakhmut holds. At this moment in time the counter offensive is not really going anywhere. Inmho it is a political move that will not result in any major gains.

The numbers just aren't available. It is only a matter of time when there comes an inflection point..a point of no return for the Ukrainians. Where no matter what they do they won't be able to turn the tide.

 

[cpleigh]

Ukrainian offensives near Bakhmut unsuccessful - Russia

As has been typical of the battle for Bakhmut so far, both sides have claimed victory in offensives around the devastated city in eastern Ukraine.

While the Ukrainians say they've made advances of up to 1.1km (0.7 miles) in the direction of the city, Russia says it has defeated its enemy's attacks near the city.

The defence ministry says Ukrainian forces mounted a series of "unsuccessful offensives" in the area - which has seen some of the deadliest fighting of the war.

The BBC has not been able to independently verify either side's claims.

stopped reading at the 'Russian defence ministry said'

The same ministry that published a video yesterday of them destroying a 'Leopard 2' tank... that turned out to be a tractor. They are a shambles,