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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

@RedwoodOriginal Apparently John Cena is in touch with Max Caster, he reached out to compliment him and also if he needed help etc

Have you also read about Dijak getting the best piece of advice he has ever had in wrestling from Punk who calmed him down after he got hurt from some botched spot; what a cancer you are Phil!
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I am glad they are doing the KOTR tournament with some kind of seriousness this time. It used to be such a staple of WWE and a great way to elevate wrestlers. But it has been treated as a joke ever ever since it was brought back. I think the last good one was probably the 2002 KOTR which included the legendary Brock Lesnar v Test match.

Gunther has to win this tournament in my opinion. If not him then LA Knight. But I guess I'm even more excited about the prospect of seeing Ilja Dragunov v Gunther on RAW. They have done a good job with the brackets with some really interesting potential match-ups for the next rounds. And I heard that Gunther/Sheamus and Ilja/Ricochet already put on two bangers tonight.
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RAW feels more like a house show then an episode of Live TV, I don’t mind the good wrestling on offer but…………
 
shaz619 said:
@TeymurBlake @MK7Z Did you guys watch Backlash live in the UK then?

Another heads up if you’ve cancelled the Network.

Join on the 24th or 25th of May, this way you get the following live PPV’s during normal evening hours:

25th May - Saudi Arabia PPV
June 15th - Clash At The Castle Scotland

That way another two events for 9.99 and makes more sense for us, I personally will only join when I can watch during normal hours unless on rare occasions.

In between the two above events, there’s NXT Battleground to but that’s going to air live from Las Vegas (UFC Apex)
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Thanks, good shout. I will put a reminder in. Might have a look at the tickets for Clash at the Castle

I managed to watch Backlash and the crowd was the standout. I didnt expect any title changes barring ones nobody cares about like the womens tag titles.

Thought Uso had a decent performance. New Bloodline guy botching his big arrival with the ref was hilarious, that match was decent to. Randy and KO are funny.

Think the build up is Roman returning as a good guy.

Cody vs AJ was a good watch. Both good performers.
 
What do you guys think of Jey Uso?

His whole gimmick is great. Entrance, attire and unique mic skills.

But in ring apart from being a great seller I don't think I've seen anyone with a less limited move set.
Bizzarely I like the guy but just consists of splashes super kicks and spears. Oh and a suicide dive.

Interested to know what you guys think.
 
shaz619 said:
@TeymurBlake @MK7Z Did you guys watch Backlash live in the UK then?

Another heads up if you’ve cancelled the Network.

Join on the 24th or 25th of May, this way you get the following live PPV’s during normal evening hours:

25th May - Saudi Arabia PPV
June 15th - Clash At The Castle Scotland

That way another two events for 9.99 and makes more sense for us, I personally will only join when I can watch during normal hours unless on rare occasions.

In between the two above events, there’s NXT Battleground to but that’s going to air live from Las Vegas (UFC Apex)
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I actually joined the WWE Network in anticipation of Backlash but also the summer ppv's.
 
Seeing the kind of pull CM Punk possesses for the crowds just by showing up, it's still baffling to see how AEW let him go.
Not many people get the fans talking like he does. He is one of the many antique wrestlers 1977-80 gave birth to. Cena, Randy, Brock, Punk, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles The 6 unique one man shows all totally different to each other.
 
MK7Z said:
What do you guys think of Jey Uso?

His whole gimmick is great. Entrance, attire and unique mic skills.

But in ring apart from being a great seller I don't think I've seen anyone with a less limited move set.
Bizzarely I like the guy but just consists of splashes super kicks and spears. Oh and a suicide dive.

Interested to know what you guys think.
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He isn't really a singles wrestler IMO even though he has exceeded expectations in terms of getting over as a singles guy. His character work is great. Even his in ring work is character based. The sad part is he was only raised to be a tag wrestler. That's the life he he's lived. He still hasn't adjusted to becoming the singles wrestler people expect him to be. He has gotten away for his lack of coherent skills in singles competition by being involved with imaginative guys like Roman, Sami, Cody etc. He was given a chance to be the match caller at Mania and he failed miserably there even with his best dance partner. His acting and selling is great though. He probably has a higher ceiling than Jimmy.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
He isn't really a singles wrestler IMO even though he has exceeded expectations in terms of getting over as a singles guy. His character work is great. Even his in ring work is character based. The sad part is he was only raised to be a tag wrestler. That's the life he he's lived. He still hasn't adjusted to becoming the singles wrestler people expect him to be. He has gotten away for his lack of coherent skills in singles competition by being involved with imaginative guys like Roman, Sami, Cody etc. He was given a chance to be the match caller at Mania and he failed miserably there even with his best dance partner. His acting and selling is great though. He probably has a higher ceiling than Jimmy.
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Saying that, I still believe The Usos are amongst the best tag teams of all time.
 
MK7Z said:
What do you guys think of Jey Uso?

His whole gimmick is great. Entrance, attire and unique mic skills.

But in ring apart from being a great seller I don't think I've seen anyone with a less limited move set.
Bizzarely I like the guy but just consists of splashes super kicks and spears. Oh and a suicide dive.

Interested to know what you guys think.
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I’ve been more tolerable of Jey compared to others because I’ve seen what he is capable off when he was first given a main event run, his attitude is not great and his mentality is that of a mid-carder which is a major problem which prevents him from making a few adjustments, you don’t need to do a whole lot in this era to get over with the fans in the ring. With that being said, he has been a big part of why the bloodline saga has been so successful and working with someone like Heyman has helped him maximise his strengths and draw money as a character, fundamentally that has more legs in the long run.
 
MK7Z said:
What do you guys think of Jey Uso?

His whole gimmick is great. Entrance, attire and unique mic skills.

But in ring apart from being a great seller I don't think I've seen anyone with a less limited move set.
Bizzarely I like the guy but just consists of splashes super kicks and spears. Oh and a suicide dive.

Interested to know what you guys think.
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I think he's an absolutely terrible singles wrestler. I wouldn't even call him a great seller. Credit to him for getting over. He certainly has personality and he's very over with the crowd. But m not a fan of his matches. On SmackDown or RAW the kind of matches he's wrestling can get lost in the shuffle, but there's no hiding on PPV.
 

Raw Results: May 6, 2024​

  • Jey Uso def. Finn Bálor in a King of the Ring Tournament Match
  • IYO SKY def. Natalya in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Ilja Dragunov def. Ricochet in a King of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Zoey Stark def. Ivy Nile in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Lyra Valkyria def. Dakota Kai in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Gunther def. Sheamus in a King of the Ring Tournament Match
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think he's an absolutely terrible singles wrestler. I wouldn't even call him a great seller. Credit to him for getting over. He certainly has personality and he's very over with the crowd. But m not a fan of his matches. On SmackDown or RAW the kind of matches he's wrestling can get lost in the shuffle, but there's no hiding on PPV.
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I reckon a Uso reunion is on the cards
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal Apparently John Cena is in touch with Max Caster, he reached out to compliment him and also if he needed help etc

Have you also read about Dijak getting the best piece of advice he has ever had in wrestling from Punk who calmed him down after he got hurt from some botched spot; what a cancer you are Phil!
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That doesn't surprise me. Cena is a class act. I think Cena maybe sees a little bit of his young self in Caster, because that's how he got over too. And Caster has something. He may not have found it yet, but he has the mic skills, is quick-witted and has a pretty good look too. If he learns to work and evolve as a personality then I don't see how he can't be a star.

Lol what a cancer this Phil. You can just tell what a toxic place he is making the locker-room. Speaking of which, did you see the video of Punk wandering around in Titan towers after being locked in a bathroom lol? :ROFLMAO:


Glad to see he's having fun.
 
MK7Z said:
I reckon a Uso reunion is on the cards
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i don't know about that just yet. WWE have invested alot of time in Jey. They won't give up on him unless he shows no signs of improvement and loses popularity. Hate to say it, but Jimmy may be destined to be a jobber after the whole Bloodline saga concludes.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Seeing the kind of pull CM Punk possesses for the crowds just by showing up, it's still baffling to see how AEW let him go.
Not many people get the fans talking like he does. He is one of the many antique wrestlers 1977-80 gave birth to. Cena, Randy, Brock, Punk, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles The 6 unique one man shows all totally different to each other.
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He's in a league of his own in the modern age. No one is capable of drawing more eyeballs and interest than him. But even more than that, its the stuff he is involved in. It always makes sense, and its always compelling.
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal Agree on the S&M, homo Taker and whatever else they propagate, can we have a serious WHC for once, Hunter would never present himself like this, why does he give these lot a free hand especially with the belt he held for a while? Rhea made it her thing but it doesn’t work for anyone else. They also need to have Priest distance himself from those two jobbers (Balor and JD).
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I like Finn Balor...I think he's pretty good. And I think they probably need to book Finn a bit better if they want his and Priest's eventual feud to mean anything. But you're right. Priest can only become a star once he leaves Judgement Day. They've been teasing it in some way for a pretty long time so I just hope they don't wait too long. Because I feel like that is a pretty defining feature of H's booking. Not striking when the iron is hot.
 
Ilja Dragunov is one heck of a talent. I haven't seen that much of him but what I have seen gives me the same impression as I get from Gunther. That this is someone who feels real and could have been successful in any era of professional wrestling. Because everything he does is rooted in fundamental pro-wrestling ideas and concepts. Even the moves are about as textbook as you can get.

Where Gunther is the classical heel, Dragunov is the classical babyface and my god what a seller this guy is. He is so unique and different from every other babyface. For one thing, his facials are just insane sometimes lol. And good god can he take a beating. I can easily see him being the next great Intercontinental Champion relatively soon. But for now, i just want Gunther vs. Dragunov on RAW commercial free.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
He's in a league of his own in the modern age. No one is capable of drawing more eyeballs and interest than him. But even more than that, its the stuff he is involved in. It always makes sense, and its always compelling.
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I won't say he's the biggest draw. All 6 i mentioned are in a league of their own. Cena was the biggest documented draw out of them. Brock doesn't need to do anything to pull crowds, orton is the most complete, aj the best worker etc etc. All 6 can't be compared IMO as they all offer something different and are best exponents of what they offer.
Yes punk has this ability to fire up the crowd and garner interest which had been lacking in wwe for years. Without even wrestling a single match, he's easily become the second must watch thing in wwe apart from the bloodline saga (which has taken the most effort and input)
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Ilja Dragunov is one heck of a talent. I haven't seen that much of him but what I have seen gives me the same impression as I get from Gunther. That this is someone who feels real and could have been successful in any era of professional wrestling. Because everything he does is rooted in fundamental pro-wrestling ideas and concepts. Even the moves are about as textbook as you can get.

Where Gunther is the classical heel, Dragunov is the classical babyface and my god what a seller this guy is. He is so unique and different from every other babyface. For one thing, his facials are just insane sometimes lol. And good god can he take a beating. I can easily see him being the next great Intercontinental Champion relatively soon. But for now, i just want Gunther vs. Dragunov on RAW commercial free.
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BOTH are brilliant in their style of wrestling and gunther is the best to appeal to casual viewers for this style.
One thing i'll say Randy wouldn't like working with either. He said a few years ago how he hates the new age philosophy of hurting each other to make it feel real. He said he prefers not hurting him or his opponent the way to be which majority of modern wrestlers and indie guys don't really understand
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I won't say he's the biggest draw. All 6 i mentioned are in a league of their own. Cena was the biggest documented draw out of them. Brock doesn't need to do anything to pull crowds, orton is the most complete, aj the best worker etc etc. All 6 can't be compared IMO as they all offer something different and are best exponents of what they offer.
Yes punk has this ability to fire up the crowd and garner interest which had been lacking in wwe for years. Without even wrestling a single match, he's easily become the second must watch thing in wwe apart from the bloodline saga (which has taken the most effort and input)
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I'm talking about right now. And all due respect to the others. But they don't have the same ability on the mic as CM Punk.
 
Suleiman said:
Feels good to be excited for smack down/ raw every week again.
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Yes but they haven't done well enough of a follow up considering the momentum they garnered at Mania. Feels like without Roman and Dwayne's presence and input, their plans aren't that interesting. 2006 post mania was one of the best post mania feel good times with cena and batista both getting off flyers. Cody's promos and angles since them apart from that one segment against aj and the eventual match have been meh.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm talking about right now. And all due respect to the others. But they don't have the same ability on the mic as CM Punk.
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Hmm respect your opinion. Still think all of them offer something different.
Punk Drew feud has been awesome especially considering the fact that both are injured lol. I am looking forward to the match. Drew has superceded Seth quite easily.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Yes but they haven't done well enough of a follow up considering the momentum they garnered at Mania. Feels like without Roman and Dwayne's presence and input, their plans aren't that interesting. 2006 post mania was one of the best post mania feel good times with cena and batista both getting off flyers. Cody's promos and angles since them apart from that one segment against aj and the eventual match have been meh.
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They probably have to turn him heel sooner than they planned because it’s the same promo every week

He hinted at LA Knight post backlash. If that match happens I 100% believe the crowd will turn on Cody.
 
I don't know what's funnier; CM Punk referencing choking Jack Perry on RAW, or that joke going down flatter than a punctured tire with that live crowd.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I like Finn Balor...I think he's pretty good. And I think they probably need to book Finn a bit better if they want his and Priest's eventual feud to mean anything. But you're right. Priest can only become a star once he leaves Judgement Day. They've been teasing it in some way for a pretty long time so I just hope they don't wait too long. Because I feel like that is a pretty defining feature of H's booking. Not striking when the iron is hot.
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Finn is a big fan of priest. He elevated him in Nxt as well. He'll put him over on main roster as well. Finn's best ability is to make his opponents look great. Kross's 2 best matches in wwe were against balor in nxt and he made him look a million bucks there (do watch his rematch with kross at nxt taping not the takeover one).
 
Suleiman said:
They probably have to turn him heel sooner than they planned because it’s the same promo every week

He hinted at LA Knight post backlash. If that match happens I 100% believe the crowd will turn on Cody.
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And cody would do all he can to not turn heel. That was one reason he left aew as well. But wwe's crowd is different to aews. He'll get a longer rope here. But he definitely needs better material and feuds. Dwayne's not here to get good heat on him now.
As good as La knight is on the mic, i never want to watch his matches. They are so meh. He's a bit like jbl in the ring.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't know what's funnier; CM Punk referencing choking Jack Perry on RAW, or that joke going down flatter than a punctured tire with that live crowd.
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He referenced randomly punching people backstage during his early promos on return too and that one fell flat with the crowd too. 😅😅
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Hmm respect your opinion. Still think all of them offer something different.
Punk Drew feud has been awesome especially considering the fact that both are injured lol. I am looking forward to the match. Drew has superceded Seth quite easily.
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They are good in their own right. But Punk functions on a different level. In this era, there's no one that even comes close or sounds as real. And his AEW run is actually the biggest reflection of that.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
i don't know about that just yet. WWE have invested alot of time in Jey. They won't give up on him unless he shows no signs of improvement and loses popularity. Hate to say it, but Jimmy may be destined to be a jobber after the whole Bloodline saga concludes.
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I think usos reunion is on the cards later this year.
I think it has flown under the radar but Jimmy's mic work since turning heel on jey has been awesome. Especially since his character has to be that cocky overconfident.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
They are good in their own right. But Punk functions on a different level. In this era, there's no one that even comes close or sounds as real. And his AEW run is actually the biggest reflection of that.
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Yes but his body's been giving up on him. Way too many injuries since winning aew title. I hope he remains injury free now.
 
Suleiman said:
They probably have to turn him heel sooner than they planned because it’s the same promo every week

He hinted at LA Knight post backlash. If that match happens I 100% believe the crowd will turn on Cody.
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That would be really stupid booking though even if they don't turn Cody. That's the kind of mark booking Tony Khan is known for.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm talking more about his promo ability.
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If that’s all he had, still well ahead off 90% of the roster. There are bums like Balor who can work in the ring but the vanilla midget is a charisma vacuum. Many people can ‘work’ the modern style, Punk has been big business without even getting out of 1st gear
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Ilja Dragunov is one heck of a talent. I haven't seen that much of him but what I have seen gives me the same impression as I get from Gunther. That this is someone who feels real and could have been successful in any era of professional wrestling. Because everything he does is rooted in fundamental pro-wrestling ideas and concepts. Even the moves are about as textbook as you can get.

Where Gunther is the classical heel, Dragunov is the classical babyface and my god what a seller this guy is. He is so unique and different from every other babyface. For one thing, his facials are just insane sometimes lol. And good god can he take a beating. I can easily see him being the next great Intercontinental Champion relatively soon. But for now, i just want Gunther vs. Dragunov on RAW commercial free.
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Problem is he’s a weak promo from what I’ve seen but maybe he can get better, his work is great, no doubt he can be an addition to mid to upper mid card.

Everybody and their dog is more over then the midget Balor.
 
shaz619 said:
If that’s all he had, still well ahead off 90% of the roster. There are bums like Balor who can work in the ring but the vanilla midget is a charisma vacuum. Many people can ‘work’ the modern style, Punk has been big business without even getting out of 1st gear
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Yeah but despite not being anywhere near as good as AJ or Bryan in the ring (who are roughly in the same age group), Punk's matches are must-see because he's a great worker. He understands in-ring psychology so well and is so great at telling a story, that it doesn't matter if he's having a 9 star match or not.
 
shaz619 said:
Problem is he’s a weak promo from what I’ve seen but maybe he can get better, his work is great, no doubt he can be an addition to mid to upper mid card.

Everybody and their dog is more over then the midget Balor.
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His entire presentation is very stripped-down. And the same goes for his promos. Some people have spoken positively about his run as NXT Champion though I've seen not seen any of it to know. Let's see how he progresses now that he's in the big leagues. Definitely has all the tools to be a great underdog babyface in the ring.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah but despite not being anywhere near as good as AJ or Bryan in the ring (who are roughly in the same age group), Punk's matches are must-see because he's a great worker. He understands in-ring psychology so well and is so great at telling a story, that it doesn't matter if he's having a 9 star match or not.
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I disagree personally, Punk is on a similar wave length as those guys in the ring in my opinion, his style is just different and relies more on his ring generalship as you say which is a special asset to have. Punk got better and better once leaving ROH, fined tuned his ring IQ and his work was a lot more creative without some of the high spots which he previously relied on.
 
shaz619 said:
I disagree personally, Punk is on a similar wave length as those guys in the ring in my opinion, his style is just different and relies more on his ring generalship as you say which is a special asset to have. Punk got better and better once leaving ROH, fined tuned his ring IQ and his work was a lot more creative without some of the high spots which he previously relied on.
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I'm talking pure wrestling ability...especially at this point of his career. Not his ability to work or his in-ring psychology, which I feel is on another level. I dunno if we are talking about the same things or not.
 
Punk imo is criminally underrated in the ring, he’s a throwback and just gets it, his timing is impeccable, his spots are like poetry in motion, everything is so fluid and done well, he’s a master at using his opponents best strengths and meshing them with his ability to tell a story in the ring, and finding ways to do the most basic moves in a creative fashion. You go back to ALL IN, against Joe, that famous Rana reversal spot, instead of being done on the ring barricade he went under the ring announcer’s table, these spots live in the mind a lot longer compared to what other’s do. Or that flying knee on Lesnar, taking that RKO off the springboard, reversing Taker’s old school into the GTS, Taker taking the GTS but coming back running with a Tombstone, the finishing stretch of Punk/Cena @ MITB there’s just too many moments for me to list.

If you also consider the common opponents which AJ/Bryan/Punk had, especially the big names such as Orton, Cena, Lesnar and Taker; Punk for me had the more memorable matches against these guys imo.

And as for the present, if you mean right now @RedwoodOriginal , then I think when healthy he is right up there going off his work in AEW alone, he was never a spots guy
 

SmackDown Results: May 10, 2024​

  • Nia Jax def. Naomi in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Carmelo Hayes def. Baron Corbin in a King of the Ring Tournament Match
  • WWE Women's Tag Team Champion Jade Cargill def. Piper Niven in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • WWE Women's Tag Team Champion Bianca Belair def. Candice LeRae in a Queen of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Tama Tonga def. Angelo Dawkins in a King of the Ring Tournament Match
  • Randy Orton def. AJ Styles in King of the Ring Tournament Match
 
Logan Paul Vs the WWE champ…. What a joke lmao.
 
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Long list of talent that could be using that US championship to elevate their career, instead they are wasting it on this social media joker.
 
Suleiman said:
Long list of talent that could be using that US championship to elevate their career, instead they are wasting it on this social media joker.
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Logan's run as a US champ has been awful. The only reason why they're keeping the title on him is probably he has big youtube fanbase. They need a full time youngster holding that title or either a vet legend who can elevate it. (Gunther in first, Cena's2015 run for second one)
 

WWE RAW Lineup for May 13, 2024 Episode:​

  • King of the Ring: Gunther vs. Kofi Kingston
  • King of the Ring: Jey Uso vs. Ilja Dragunov
  • Queen of the Ring: Zoey Stark vs. Lyra Valkyria
  • Queen of the Ring: Iyo Sky vs. Shayna Bazsler
 
shaz619 said:
Punk imo is criminally underrated in the ring, he’s a throwback and just gets it, his timing is impeccable, his spots are like poetry in motion, everything is so fluid and done well, he’s a master at using his opponents best strengths and meshing them with his ability to tell a story in the ring, and finding ways to do the most basic moves in a creative fashion. You go back to ALL IN, against Joe, that famous Rana reversal spot, instead of being done on the ring barricade he went under the ring announcer’s table, these spots live in the mind a lot longer compared to what other’s do. Or that flying knee on Lesnar, taking that RKO off the springboard, reversing Taker’s old school into the GTS, Taker taking the GTS but coming back running with a Tombstone, the finishing stretch of Punk/Cena @ MITB there’s just too many moments for me to list.

If you also consider the common opponents which AJ/Bryan/Punk had, especially the big names such as Orton, Cena, Lesnar and Taker; Punk for me had the more memorable matches against these guys imo.

And as for the present, if you mean right now @RedwoodOriginal , then I think when healthy he is right up there going off his work in AEW alone, he was never a spots guy
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I agree with you 99%. Punk is one of the GOATs of the modern era. I have always thought he was awesome in the ring, barring his sh!tty looking elbow drop. As a complete package (promo, look, wrestling ability) I feel he is one of the greatest ever. But when it comes to pure wrestling ability i.e. holds, moves, quickness etc. I just feel like Bryan and AJ are better than him in the ring right now. That is not to say that he isn't a gifted storyteller who always tries to make everything mean something. And even with Bryan and AJ, I would make that case more for right now than their complete careers. I think the in-ring work that Bryan and AJ are doing even at this point of their career is incredible for two guys well into their 40s. It's just not something you see too often. I dunno if that makes sense.

Yeah but that's the thing though. At this age, his body can struggle. And that's a big thing when you compare him to AJ and Bryan, who are still working at peak performance and taking shorter times to return from injuries.
 
Suleiman said:
Long list of talent that could be using that US championship to elevate their career, instead they are wasting it on this social media joker.
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I like him more than most because I think he's a good heel and a gifted athlete who has taken to wrestling pretty well all things considered. But ffs he's a part-timer and he has been US Champ for nearly a year now. You're burying the belt and the talent by keeping it on him any longer. By this point LA Knight should have won that belt and lost it to someone on the up and up.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I agree with you 99%. Punk is one of the GOATs of the modern era. I have always thought he was awesome in the ring, barring his sh!tty looking elbow drop. As a complete package (promo, look, wrestling ability) I feel he is one of the greatest ever. But when it comes to pure wrestling ability i.e. holds, moves, quickness etc. I just feel like Bryan and AJ are better than him in the ring right now. That is not to say that he isn't a gifted storyteller who always tries to make everything mean something. And even with Bryan and AJ, I would make that case more for right now than their complete careers. I think the in-ring work that Bryan and AJ are doing even at this point of their career is incredible for two guys well into their 40s. It's just not something you see too often. I dunno if that makes sense.

Yeah but that's the thing though. At this age, his body can struggle. And that's a big thing when you compare him to AJ and Bryan, who are still working at peak performance and taking shorter times to return from injuries.
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I would agree that those two are probably more athletic. AJ certainly worked well enough to protect himself which is difficult to do, Bryan on the other hand arguably shouldn’t be cleared. Punk in the indies worked a physical style and took some nasty bumps, not so much in the WWE though when he improved so much, I think how he was treated by HHH and WWE medical during his title reign took years off his career and then more damage was done going through two brutal MMA training camps, never mind the fights, because it’s not like he is reckless in the ring, those two experiences took a lot out of his body opposed to how he works in the ring imo.

For sure, AJ especially, a lot like Shawn in his final stretch of his career is still in his prime, it’s just that he seldom is given that main event spot now to show it. Am disappointed the Cody/AJ feud has ended.
 
Suleiman said:
Logan Paul Vs the WWE champ…. What a joke lmao.
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He doesn’t belong in the main event spot, he’s a good spot monkey and evidence of how easy it is to work the current modern style, somebody like him belongs in the mid card, but he is working with the WWE Champion on a major PPV which is a shambles. It’s like booking Stone Cold to face Logan Paul in 2001 for the WWF Championship during the Insurrection PPV, even by crazy AE era standards, it would be a joke.
 
shaz619 said:
I would agree that those two are probably more athletic. AJ certainly worked well enough to protect himself which is difficult to do, Bryan on the other hand arguably shouldn’t be cleared. Punk in the indies worked a physical style and took some nasty bumps, not so much in the WWE though when he improved so much, I think how he was treated by HHH and WWE medical during his title reign took years off his career and then more damage was done going through two brutal MMA training camps, never mind the fights, because it’s not like he is reckless in the ring, those two experiences took a lot out of his body opposed to how he works in the ring imo.

For sure, AJ especially, a lot like Shawn in his final stretch of his career is still in his prime, it’s just that he seldom is given that main event spot now to show it. Am disappointed the Cody/AJ feud has ended.
Click to expand...
You're right. I think we underestimate the effect that the end of his WWE run had on him, and just killing his love for pro-wrestling for years and years. I can completely understand it after the awful experience he had. Personally, I blame WWE and Vince for that too rather than just H. Regardless of how much H may have had to do with it, Vince was the guy in charge and had every opportunity to book Punk better or listen to his complaints. In the infamous Cabana interview, it seemed to me like Vince was trying to be his pal (pls work Ryback pal) but somehow always found a way to forget about Punk when it was time to do right by him.

At any rate, we should be glad that Punk decided to come back because in today's era where mediocrity has become so mainstreamed, Punk stands out more than ever. And even with the injuries he has given us a GOAT babyface run. And as a fan, I'm just waiting for the day we get that GOAT heel run too. You know its coming.

Yeah super disappointed myself man.
 
shaz619 said:
He doesn’t belong in the main event spot, he’s a good spot monkey and evidence of how easy it is to work the current modern style, somebody like him belongs in the mid card, but he is working with the WWE Champion on a major PPV which is a shambles. It’s like booking Stone Cold to face Logan Paul in 2001 for the WWF Championship during the Insurrection PPV, even by crazy AE era standards, it would be a joke.
Click to expand...
Austin v Drew Carey, Rebellion 2001. WWE Championship on the line
 
shaz619 said:
I would agree that those two are probably more athletic. AJ certainly worked well enough to protect himself which is difficult to do, Bryan on the other hand arguably shouldn’t be cleared. Punk in the indies worked a physical style and took some nasty bumps, not so much in the WWE though when he improved so much, I think how he was treated by HHH and WWE medical during his title reign took years off his career and then more damage was done going through two brutal MMA training camps, never mind the fights, because it’s not like he is reckless in the ring, those two experiences took a lot out of his body opposed to how he works in the ring imo.

For sure, AJ especially, a lot like Shawn in his final stretch of his career is still in his prime, it’s just that he seldom is given that main event spot now to show it. Am disappointed the Cody/AJ feud has ended.
Click to expand...
Good point on the training camps too. Getting punched in the face is the easy part about MMA. Its the training that is absolutely brutal and pushes you to the limit. Punk during that period looked scary, and not in a good way. Be clearly lost alot of weight and I can't imagine that the experience itself was good for his mental health.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Good point on the training camps too. Getting punched in the face is the easy part about MMA. Its the training that is absolutely brutal and pushes you to the limit. Punk during that period looked scary, and not in a good way. Be clearly lost alot of weight and I can't imagine that the experience itself was good for his mental health.
Click to expand...

It’s all in the UFC build up to his fights, the coverage and behind the scenes stuff was all done so well, it’s pretty nuts what he put his body through at the time and brutal sparring as well, almost as brutal as working with a staff infection
 
@shaz619 Watching Lucha Underground and though the quality has slightly gone down in Season 2, I'm really impressed by how well they've presented Pentagon and Fenix. After seeing them in AEW either booked like sh!t or being fodder for the Young Bucks, you tend to forget how talented they are. Keeping in mind the modern style, I think they are the best luchadores going around after the GOAT.

And though Fenix can be presented as an underdog babyface, Pentagon with his weird gimmick must have been a challenge to present to US audiences. But the writers and Vampiro came up with an interesting arc and got him over as this heelish babyface. I also loved the match he and Vamp had at the end of season 1.
 
@RedwoodOriginal


I have to clean my ears because I would never have imagined Kenny cutting this kind of promo and for once, he wasn’t dressed like a moron either.

Everything was on point, only minor thing I’d say is before he switched to the EVP topic/feud, he should have gone to 6th gear and let the crowd make some more noise because they were really into what he was saying, but be quickly changed topics.

But that was a great promo, best I’ve heard from him. Why can’t he be more serious like this all the time?

Looks like they want to do Okada / Oh-Cody vs Omega at Wembley.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 Watching Lucha Underground and though the quality has slightly gone down in Season 2, I'm really impressed by how well they've presented Pentagon and Fenix. After seeing them in AEW either booked like sh!t or being fodder for the Young Bucks, you tend to forget how talented they are. Keeping in mind the modern style, I think they are the best luchadores going around after the GOAT.

And though Fenix can be presented as an underdog babyface, Pentagon with his weird gimmick must have been a challenge to present to US audiences. But the writers and Vampiro came up with an interesting arc and got him over as this heelish babyface. I also loved the match he and Vamp had at the end of season 1.
Click to expand...

How is it that AEW have this uncanny ability to make you dislike what you liked ?

The Lucha guys are not easy to book but they got it so horribly wrong.

Season 1 was amazing.

Btw there’s also a WWF No Mercy Lucha Underground Mod out there.
 
hassan918 said:

WWE RAW Lineup for May 13, 2024 Episode:​

  • King of the Ring: Gunther vs. Kofi Kingston
  • King of the Ring: Jey Uso vs. Ilja Dragunov
  • Queen of the Ring: Zoey Stark vs. Lyra Valkyria
  • Queen of the Ring: Iyo Sky vs. Shayna Bazsler
Click to expand...
Raw Results: May 13, 2024

  • IYO SKY def. Shayna Baszler in a Queen of the Ring Quarterfinal Match
  • Gunther def. Kofi Kingston in a King of the Ring Quarterfinal Match
  • "Big" Bronson Reed def. Akira Tozawa
  • Lyra Valkyria def. Zoey Stark in a Queen of the Ring Quarterfinal Match
  • Sami Zayn def. Otis
  • Becky Lynch vs. Dakota Kai ended in a no-contest
  • The Judgment Day def. New Catch Republic, AOP and The Creed Brothers to become No. 1 Contender’s to the World Tag Team Titles
  • Jey Uso def. Ilja Dragunov in a King of the Ring Tournament Quarterfinal Match
 
shaz619 said:
How is it that AEW have this uncanny ability to make you dislike what you liked ?

The Lucha guys are not easy to book but they got it so horribly wrong.

Season 1 was amazing.

Btw there’s also a WWF No Mercy Lucha Underground Mod out there.
Click to expand...
They have a special skill when it comes to making things mean less than they did before.

That sounds awesome lol.
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal


I have to clean my ears because I would never have imagined Kenny cutting this kind of promo and for once, he wasn’t dressed like a moron either.

Everything was on point, only minor thing I’d say is before he switched to the EVP topic/feud, he should have gone to 6th gear and let the crowd make some more noise because they were really into what he was saying, but be quickly changed topics.

But that was a great promo, best I’ve heard from him. Why can’t he be more serious like this all the time?

Looks like they want to do Okada / Oh-Cody vs Omega at Wembley.
Click to expand...
He tries too hard to be a character sometimes. If he would just be himself, he would come across as more natural like he did here. Thankfully he has toned the acting down now because he was absolutely unbearable during his World title run. But if he does more of this he could be in the mix as one of their top babyfaces again, along with Ospreay.

Yeah seems like it. And it needs to happen there. I just hope that heals up in time for Wembley.

But yeah man. Agree big time on everything you said about his promo. This is the best I have seen of him on the mic.
 
www.f4wonline.com

Sami Zayn thinks WWE World title reign may have been more likely in Vince McMahon era

For the booking of his character, Sami Zayn thinks the difference between Paul “Triple H” Levesque and Vince McMahon’s WWE creative processes is a double-edged sword. Zayn told the Daily Mail that…
www.f4wonline.com www.f4wonline.com

@shaz619 Hardly a ringing endorsement for H lol. Part of me thinks that H will put the belt on him now just to prove him wrong and stick it to the marks. :ROFLMAO:

The other part thinks H will be H and put the belt on Sami Zayn in 2054, because LongTermBooking™
 
Punk is expected to be back soon. My guess would be SummerSlam? Punk v Drew will absolutely blow the roof off that place...if it happens there. I take back what I said earlier. I don't want these two to fight at Mania. It needs to happen ASAP. It's a hot feud and you need to strike while the iron is hot. If Damien Priest gets sacrificed along the way, well that's just how its gonna have to be I guess. Priest is great but this run has already started to remind me of Randy Orton's first World title run. He just ain't ready yet. The champion on RAW should either be CM Punk or Drew McIntyre. Because right now, no one on that show is more interesting than these two.
 
I must say, I was surprised about the finish to Ilja & Jey Uso. I was sure that Ilja was going to win.

But I believe it would make sense for Gunther to go over Jey Uso.

On Jey Uso, I am not a massive fan. His in ring skillset is quite bland. Superkick, Spear & Splash. That's it.

It's too simple. He needs to widen his skillset in the ring. Oh and please just get rid of the YEETS.

There are as childish as "What".
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He tries too hard to be a character sometimes. If he would just be himself, he would come across as more natural like he did here. Thankfully he has toned the acting down now because he was absolutely unbearable during his World title run. But if he does more of this he could be in the mix as one of their top babyfaces again, along with Ospreay.

Yeah seems like it. And it needs to happen there. I just hope that heals up in time for Wembley.

But yeah man. Agree big time on everything you said about his promo. This is the best I have seen of him on the mic.
Click to expand...
His pairing with Dollar Tree version of Paul Heyman Don Callis during his title run made him way too annoying.
If he keeps up being serious, he has a pretty high ceiling tbh. He's much much better than the bucks.
 
TeymurBlake said:
I must say, I was surprised about the finish to Ilja & Jey Uso. I was sure that Ilja was going to win.

But I believe it would make sense for Gunther to go over Jey Uso.

On Jey Uso, I am not a massive fan. His in ring skillset is quite bland. Superkick, Spear & Splash. That's it.

It's too simple. He needs to widen his skillset in the ring. Oh and please just get rid of the YEETS.

There are as childish as "What".
Click to expand...
Sometimes it's just that a character simply isn't that good of a worker to make his win look sensible.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I agree with you 99%. Punk is one of the GOATs of the modern era. I have always thought he was awesome in the ring, barring his sh!tty looking elbow drop. As a complete package (promo, look, wrestling ability) I feel he is one of the greatest ever. But when it comes to pure wrestling ability i.e. holds, moves, quickness etc. I just feel like Bryan and AJ are better than him in the ring right now. That is not to say that he isn't a gifted storyteller who always tries to make everything mean something. And even with Bryan and AJ, I would make that case more for right now than their complete careers. I think the in-ring work that Bryan and AJ are doing even at this point of their career is incredible for two guys well into their 40s. It's just not something you see too often. I dunno if that makes sense.

Yeah but that's the thing though. At this age, his body can struggle. And that's a big thing when you compare him to AJ and Bryan, who are still working at peak performance and taking shorter times to return from injuries.
Click to expand...
I have always preferred story telling style of pro wrestling than athleticism taking precedence (apart from 2017-19 where modern prowrestling specifically NXT felt pretty unique to me but it started to lose its novelty by late 2019, didn't like Cole's run as the champ as much due to that), but AJ is kind of a guy that would make you feel how athleticism is not just picture perfect spots and he truly stands out from every one else in that regard and when you take his injury free record in contention, his legacy becomes even bigger and he truly is one of a kind. As much as I like bryan, it took him a 2 year retirement to really start thinking about molding his wrestling style to make it less dangerous to himself. In terms of in ring ability whether it's mat based or high flying, AJ clears everyone from his generation easily.
But Punk's style is something that you will never really get tired of as it's more of storytelling (not saying it doesn't require athleticism or technical proficiency). That's why I said those 6 guys offer something different in atleast one aspect and they're all quite ahead of their peers. Quite easily the best 6 guys of their generation.
 
TeymurBlake said:
I must say, I was surprised about the finish to Ilja & Jey Uso. I was sure that Ilja was going to win.

But I believe it would make sense for Gunther to go over Jey Uso.

On Jey Uso, I am not a massive fan. His in ring skillset is quite bland. Superkick, Spear & Splash. That's it.

It's too simple. He needs to widen his skillset in the ring. Oh and please just get rid of the YEETS.

There are as childish as "What".
Click to expand...
Another week, another mediocre Jey Uso match. I can't believe we won't see Gunther v Ilja next week because of him. I don't have any doubts now though. Jey Uso sucks in the ring. Let's see how much Gunther can carry him next week. Ilja certainly tried his best this week, though not to much avail.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
www.f4wonline.com

Sami Zayn thinks WWE World title reign may have been more likely in Vince McMahon era

For the booking of his character, Sami Zayn thinks the difference between Paul “Triple H” Levesque and Vince McMahon’s WWE creative processes is a double-edged sword. Zayn told the Daily Mail that…
www.f4wonline.com www.f4wonline.com

@shaz619 Hardly a ringing endorsement for H lol. Part of me thinks that H will put the belt on him now just to prove him wrong and stick it to the marks. :ROFLMAO:

The other part thinks H will be H and put the belt on Sami Zayn in 2054, because LongTermBooking™
Click to expand...

That actually is more likely because of how insecure Hunter is and petty, concerned about his perception he could do it. Vince was a mercurial booker and at the top of the card, he rarely made mistakes and caught the fans off guard because he had that uncanny knack of going with his gut. That type of talent is rare, some authors plan a novel vigorously and then there’s Stephen King who let the characters take him for a ride. Without the WWE machine behind him, Hunter is nothing special as a booker.
 
shaz619 said:
That actually is more likely because of how insecure Hunter is and petty, concerned about his perception he could do it. Vince was a mercurial booker and at the top of the card, he rarely made mistakes and caught the fans off guard because he had that uncanny knack of going with his gut. That type of talent is rare, some authors plan a novel vigorously and then there’s Stephen King who let the characters take him for a ride. Without the WWE machine behind him, Hunter is nothing special as a booker.
Click to expand...
There's no denying that. When he was at the top of his game, Vince was a great booker. And you make a great point about his mercurial nature and going with his gut. I feel there is not enough of that in wrestling anymore. Either you have an idiot mark who booked all this in his basement when he was 15 years old, or you have mr. long term, planning out storylines 3 year in advance. Unpredictability in wrestling is such a beautiful thing. I'm not gonna go as far as to say I miss Vince, but I feel like people have alot of recency bias when looking at him as a booker. They forget about his incredible success, which has yet to be replicated by another booker in this business.
 
Who is the biggest superstar since the End of an Era! Roman Reigns Brock Lesnar nobody else comes to mind , the quality in WWE has declined
 
@RedwoodOriginal

What an ovation! they never make this much noise for ‘Oh-Cody’

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790781797623529653

I think this might have been the first time he was in Japan during his sort of ‘peak’ form, Shawn was in his peak his entire career lol but meant I think that’s the first since he broke into the main event.

He was consistently in the top two when he came back, but 2005 no doubt, he was P4P the best in the ring, the quality of his work that year was out of this world.

Jap fans recognise somebody special when they see them, big finger to Dave to who use to allude to him not being over with the Jap fans or not being able to suck them in
 
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