The Wrestling Discussion Thread

Who is the biggest superstar since the End of an Era! Roman Reigns Brock Lesnar nobody else comes to mind , the quality in WWE has declined

Since end of an era:

- Roman Reigns
- Brock Lesnar
- John Cena
- Daniel Bryan
- CM Punk
- Randy Orton
- AJ Styles
- Cody Rhodes (building him up now)

There was plenty of star power.
 
There's no denying that. When he was at the top of his game, Vince was a great booker. And you make a great point about his mercurial nature and going with his gut. I feel there is not enough of that in wrestling anymore. Either you have an idiot mark who booked all this in his basement when he was 15 years old, or you have mr. long term, planning out storylines 3 year in advance. Unpredictability in wrestling is such a beautiful thing. I'm not gonna go as far as to say I miss Vince, but I feel like people have alot of recency bias when looking at him as a booker. They forget about his incredible success, which has yet to be replicated by another booker in this business.

That success has been replicated when Tony agreed to allow the creative genius Mr. Moxley to book a 2 min squash match on national free to air television for the world championship, you know so Punk could have his comeback like Rocky Part 3, just a few weeks later….
 
That success has been replicated when Tony agreed to allow the creative genius Mr. Moxley to book a 2 min squash match on national free to air television for the world championship, you know so Punk could have his comeback like Rocky Part 3, just a few weeks later….
I know alot of people sh!t on that but tbh I thought that entire feud was one of the best things AEW ever did. May not have made the most sense business-wise and Moxley obviously had selfish reasons for doing that but I thought that what we got to see was absolutely fantastic. Punk came off as an even bigger babyface because of the squash, which in itself was maybe one of the best squash matches I've ever seen. It just felt real. Like a heavyweight fight where one fighter was not 100% and the other fighter just exploits his injury and annihilates him. It led to that awesome match on PPV in Chicago and Ace Steel coming in and slapping Punk across the face to wake him up before Punk went into the crowd to rally his hometown crowd.
 
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@RedwoodOriginal

What an ovation! they never make this much noise for ‘Oh-Cody’


I think this might have been the first time he was in Japan during his sort of ‘peak’ form, Shawn was in his peak his entire career lol but meant I think that’s the first since he broke into the main event.

He was consistently in the top two when he came back, but 2005 no doubt, he was P4P the best in the ring, the quality of his work that year was out of this world.

Jap fans recognise somebody special when they see them, big finger to Dave to who use to allude to him not being over with the Jap fans or not being able to suck them in
So much for Japanese fans sitting silently and clapping out of respect lol.

But that's Shawn Michaels for you. One of the greatest to ever do it. As for Dave, he has always been a little intellectually dishonest. Probably not as much as he is now but I think you see enough of him burying Shawn in his earlier reporting by passive aggressive stuff like what you mentioned. Because he used to generally be pretty favorable to Bret and because Shawn was such a massive pr!ck back in the day people didn't care too much. I'm just glad though that people continue to hound him to this day for not giving Taker v Shawn 5 stars lol.

A year or so ago he also came up with this gem on Twitter: "Shawn Michaels was one of the greatest ever. But I don't get mad at wrestlers who learned from him and improved the genre".

This statement tells you more about how Dave's brain has turned to mush, better than anything you read in the Observer will.
 
I know alot of people sh!t on that but tbh I thought that entire feud was one of the best things AEW ever did. May not have made the most sense business-wise and Moxley obviously had selfish reasons for doing that but I thought that what we got to see was absolutely fantastic. Punk came off as an even bigger babyface because of the squash, which in itself was maybe one of the best squash matches I've ever seen. It just felt real. Like a heavyweight fight where one fighter was not 100% and the other fighter just exploits his injury and annihilates him. It led to that awesome match on PPV in Chicago and Ace Steel coming in and slapping Punk across the face to wake him up before Punk went into the crowd to rally his hometown crowd.

Good feud but I felt that segment was retardded also when Punk wasn’t 100% healthy and didn’t really want to do it either, they risked a lot there, he ended up getting injured during the PPV, who knows if that match made him more prone to breaking down, it wasn’t long but Mox is a stiff guy to work with in AEW. It was all so forced and a really poor writing attempt, I’d have bought it if that was the main storyline going into the PPV and it just wasn’t / contradicted all the promos they were doing.

Sorry, but it’s going to take a lot to beat Warrior / HHH @ WM 12
 
So much for Japanese fans sitting silently and clapping out of respect lol.

But that's Shawn Michaels for you. One of the greatest to ever do it. As for Dave, he has always been a little intellectually dishonest. Probably not as much as he is now but I think you see enough of him burying Shawn in his earlier reporting by passive aggressive stuff like what you mentioned. Because he used to generally be pretty favorable to Bret and because Shawn was such a massive pr!ck back in the day people didn't care too much. I'm just glad though that people continue to hound him to this day for not giving Taker v Shawn 5 stars lol.

A year or so ago he also came up with this gem on Twitter: "Shawn Michaels was one of the greatest ever. But I don't get mad at wrestlers who learned from him and improved the genre".

This statement tells you more about how Dave's brain has turned to mush, better than anything you read in the Observer will.

Dave was a huge mark for Shawn until Bret became one of the biggest Observer insiders, his views on Shawn these days are so hypocritical and pure cringe.

Them Jap fans were like yeah we like Kobashi, Misasa and Tanashi……..but that’s friggin Shawn Michaels 🤣🤣🤣
 
Come on guys, did you seriously expect Dragunov was going over Jey, would have been a huge upset. Whether people like it or not, Yeet is massively over and they wont blunt his push or the merch sales.
 
Jey's best singles matches have come against Roman who has this ability to make his opponent look a million bucks. That's the in ring psychology that only a few possess currently. Roman made him look like a fighter who could go one on one with him. He did the same for the raw Strowman back in 2017. With all heat on Roman,he managed to provide 2 brilliant matches that made Strowman look like juggernaut. The rest was done in that hard hitting 4 way at ss 2017 between roman brock joe and strowman. The momentum braun had at that point was absolute.
 
I know alot of people sh!t on that but tbh I thought that entire feud was one of the best things AEW ever did. May not have made the most sense business-wise and Moxley obviously had selfish reasons for doing that but I thought that what we got to see was absolutely fantastic. Punk came off as an even bigger babyface because of the squash, which in itself was maybe one of the best squash matches I've ever seen. It just felt real. Like a heavyweight fight where one fighter was not 100% and the other fighter just exploits his injury and annihilates him. It led to that awesome match on PPV in Chicago and Ace Steel coming in and slapping Punk across the face to wake him up before Punk went into the crowd to rally his hometown crowd.
Mox's best in ring work in Aew IMO was his match against wheeler yuta where he made that ordinary joe look like a real brawler. Think that's one instance where Mox's superiority shone brightly something Seth is yet to learn.
 
Glad our boy Carlito is getting some proper shine with this Judgement Day angle @shaz619

LWO outside of the race thing just didn’t suit him.

The stable and character based on 99% race thing doesn’t really work.
 
Glad our boy Carlito is getting some proper shine with this Judgement Day angle @shaz619

LWO outside of the race thing just didn’t suit him.

The stable and character based on 99% race thing doesn’t really work.

I thought they moved on from that sort of thing but they had every latino in the same feud.

Maybe Carlito will be the new leader of Judgement Day?

I think Priest has outgrown his role there and should be presented more like a genuine main event star
 
Since end of an era:

- Roman Reigns
- Brock Lesnar
- John Cena
- Daniel Bryan
- CM Punk
- Randy Orton
- AJ Styles
- Cody Rhodes (building him up now)

There was plenty of star power.
Cody Rhodes genuinely reminds of a modern Hulk Hogan, in terms aura, star power & representation of America, like Kaptaan Amereeka.
 
Cody Rhodes genuinely reminds of a modern Hulk Hogan, in terms aura, star power & representation of America, like Kaptaan Amereeka.
80s didn't have iwc or social media. it was easy to get by poor championship runs etc. Now it's pretty difficult as every match and segment is microanalyzed and Cody's run since dethroning Roman has featured only one good promo segment against AJ and one good (great) match (with AJ). Remains to be seen how they handle him. climing the top is easy but staying there while providing captivating stuff consistently is the bigger task.
 

WWE SmackDown Results | May 17, 2024​

  • Bianca Belair def. Tiffany Stratton | Queen of the Ring Quarterfinal
  • Tama Tonga def. LA Knight | King of the Ring Quarterfinal
  • Nia Jax def. Jade Cargill by DQ | Queen of the Ring Quarterfinal
  • DIY def. Legado Del Fantasma
  • Randy Orton def. Carmelo Hayes | King of the Ring Quarterfinal
 
The Logan Paul-Cody segment on SD was an absolute trainwreck. Booking Logan Paul as anything other than a midcard heel is a grave mistake. Can't say that this Budget Bloodline stuff is working for me either. I am really starting to like Tama Tonga but Solo feels so badly miscast in this role of a young rebel leader. I don't buy him at all as this supposed badass. On top of that, now it looks like LA Knight is getting the classical Triple H booking treatment too where he is cooled off to such an extent that he turns into ice. Just so he could win the United States Championship or something one year from now.
 
Good feud but I felt that segment was retardded also when Punk wasn’t 100% healthy and didn’t really want to do it either, they risked a lot there, he ended up getting injured during the PPV, who knows if that match made him more prone to breaking down, it wasn’t long but Mox is a stiff guy to work with in AEW. It was all so forced and a really poor writing attempt, I’d have bought it if that was the main storyline going into the PPV and it just wasn’t / contradicted all the promos they were doing.

Sorry, but it’s going to take a lot to beat Warrior / HHH @ WM 12
I didn't really see it as contradictory. I saw it as two guys that think they are the best and just don't really like each other. I didn't expect Moxley to hold his own against Punk but I felt like he did. I also feel like the squash was a nice way to give Moxley some legitimacy because he had been carrying the belt throughout the summer and had been featured heavily on their programming. Punk was always going over in Chicago but the squash put Moxley on close to even footing with Punk despite the defeat. Which is fine and something I don't mind because Moxley is one of the top guys that they have been pushing since Day 1. But that's just my opinion about what I saw unfold on the screen.

As for whether that squash match should have happened or not. It most definitely should not have. It was a deeply reckless, dangerous and unprofessional thing for Tony Khan to do. What's more, he should never have put the belt on Moxley in the first place if he wanted him to drop it to Punk when Punk came back. Even if you forget about Moxley being a complete d!ck who flat-out refused to do business, Moxley was still their most popular babyface after Punk at that point and it didn't really make alot of sense to book your two top babyfaces against each other. It was mark booking ofcourse. And when the time came Tony didn't have the balls to get Moxley to do his job.
 
Glad our boy Carlito is getting some proper shine with this Judgement Day angle @shaz619

LWO outside of the race thing just didn’t suit him.

The stable and character based on 99% race thing doesn’t really work.
This was just another way for WWE to make a killing on LWO t-shirts while paying lip-service to to their Latino demographic. The LWO was literally a jobber stable in WCW. It was funny and Eddie was great in it but what sense does it make in kayfabe to bring it back?
 

When I first saw her in NXT, never thought she’d have the career she has had, she was so raw and green, horrible botch after botch, to go from there to her current success is resilience for sure.
She's a good looking athletic white girl, I feel like she already had a lot going for her. She has improved her wrestling somewhat and is passable in the ring, which probably sets her apart from her 'Diva' predecessors. But she still comes off as very fake to me on promos. Seems like another one of those types that want to use wrestling as a stepping stone to Hollywood. And I can't say I like her chances if this is the level of her acting ability.
 
@shaz619 This is interesting. I mean I knew Tony Khan was a nut but this seems like a bit of an obsession. Definitely sheds more light into Punk telling Helwani people in AEW said that they felt "betrayed" because went to RAW lol. Maybe even sheds some light into Ricky Starks's booking and recent disappearance from TV. I really hope Ricky Starks and Wardlow get out of AEW soon. They are wasting valuable years of their careers.
 
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@shaz619 This is interesting. I mean I knew Tony Khan was a nut but this seems like a bit of an obsession. Definitely sheds more light into Punk telling Helwani people in AEW said that they felt "betrayed" because went to RAW lol. Maybe even sheds some light into Ricky Starks's booking and recent disappearance from TV. I really hope Ricky Starks and Wardlow get out of AEW soon. They are wasting valuable years of their careers.

Apparently Tony has been banning them from watching WWE PPV’s as well. Ricky Starks is in the dog house doe the pettiest ever, can’t wait for his contract to expire.
 
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The Logan Paul-Cody segment on SD was an absolute trainwreck. Booking Logan Paul as anything other than a midcard heel is a grave mistake. Can't say that this Budget Bloodline stuff is working for me either. I am really starting to like Tama Tonga but Solo feels so badly miscast in this role of a young rebel leader. I don't buy him at all as this supposed badass. On top of that, now it looks like LA Knight is getting the classical Triple H booking treatment too where he is cooled off to such an extent that he turns into ice. Just so he could win the United States Championship or something one year from now.
Tell me about it.

Theirs no way Cody Vs Logan Paul should be happening.

Cody Vs AJ Styles No Holds Barred made more sense. You could have Logan Paul defend his title against someone else.
 

RAW Lineup - May 20, 2024​

  • King of the Ring: Gunther vs. Jey Uso
  • Queen of the Ring: Lyra Valkyria vs. Iyo Sky
  • Sami Zayn vs. Chad Gable
 
Tell me about it.

Theirs no way Cody Vs Logan Paul should be happening.

Cody Vs AJ Styles No Holds Barred made more sense. You could have Logan Paul defend his title against someone else.

Logan Paul would have been perfect for that new Speed Title they created for Social Media.

Putting him in these world title matches is a stretch. This is going to be Cody’s 2nd defence, horrible booking.
 
Logan Paul would have been perfect for that new Speed Title they created for Social Media.

Putting him in these world title matches is a stretch. This is going to be Cody’s 2nd defence, horrible booking.
Yep.

These Saudi's shows are basically expensive house show.
 

RAW Lineup - May 20, 2024​

  • King of the Ring: Gunther vs. Jey Uso
  • Queen of the Ring: Lyra Valkyria vs. Iyo Sky
  • Sami Zayn vs. Chad Gable

Raw Results: May 20, 2024​

  • Chad Gable def. Sami Zayn
  • Bron Breakker def. Kale Dixon via referee stoppage
  • Lyra Valkyria def. IYO SKY in a Queen of the Ring Semifinal Match
  • Awesome Truth def. The Judgment Day to retain the World Tag Team Titles
  • Shayna Baszler & Zoey Stark def. Damage CTRL, Katana Chance & Kayden Carter and Maxxine Dupri & Ivy Nile in a Fatal 4-Way Tag Team No. 1 Contenders’ Match
  • Gunther def. Jey Uso via submission in a King of the Ring Semifinal Match
 
I don't care how they've booked the KOTR so far. The least they can do now is give us the ultimate dream match we all want to see in the final: Gunther v Randy Orton.
 
Apparently Tony has been banning them from watching WWE PPV’s as well. Ricky Starks is in the dog house doe the pettiest sh!t ever, can’t wait for his contract to expire.
Its still really funny to me that the promoter and owner of the second biggest US wrestling promotion is basically an internet troll. I feel embarrassed for him sometimes because he's 41 years old.
 
I don't care how they've booked the KOTR so far. The least they can do now is give us the ultimate dream match we all want to see in the final: Gunther v Randy Orton.
It might be a fantastic match but don't see Randy being too thrilled about getting them chops from gunther. He's said time and again he dislikes the modern style where wrestlers actually hurt each other. Randy and Drew (who is himself a stiff worker) had fantastic chemistry and they gave us plenty of memorable matches during their feud so curious to see how Randy goes about in his match against Gunther.
 
Looks unlikely but waiting for Brock Lesnar return, the only wrestler left who gives nostalgia.
Brock had mixed records at main events yet he managed to brutally demolished the legends like Undertaker, HHH, Cena, Reigns, Goldberg etc, not to mention in his early days he overcame legends like Rock, Kurt Angle Big Show, Mark Henry etc.

Though WWE failed to capitalise on Brock's aura as he never had a proper match against Rated R Superstar Edge and Dave the Animal Batista
 
It might be a fantastic match but don't see Randy being too thrilled about getting them chops from gunther. He's said time and again he dislikes the modern style where wrestlers actually hurt each other. Randy and Drew (who is himself a stiff worker) had fantastic chemistry and they gave us plenty of memorable matches during their feud so curious to see how Randy goes about in his match against Gunther.
The match doesn't need to have chops to be great. Randy Orton could have a great match in his sleep at this point. That's how good he is. And putting him with Gunther, who is one of the smartest and most fundamentally sound wrestlers the business right now; that's a recipe for something special.
 
Its still really funny to me that the promoter and owner of the second biggest US wrestling promotion is basically an internet troll. I feel embarrassed for him sometimes because he's 41 years old.

This is why Turkialal-sheikh deserves immense credit. Both he and Tony have an endless supply of cash, but just because you have money, it just shows you still need a plan and vision. Turki has taken the Boxing world by storm and has been a fantastic promoter, the marketing has been crazy, match making outstanding and he has bought rivals in and out the ring together to do business for the great of the sport. His man management skills are excellent, he’s just a great leader and am not on his payroll either to have to say if. With the WWE he obviously just lets them do their thing, but wont shock me if he manages to get a Wrestlemania over there.

Turki is proof of the impact Tony could have had in the Wrestling world.
 
The match doesn't need to have chops to be great. Randy Orton could have a great match in his sleep at this point. That's how good he is. And putting him with Gunther, who is one of the smartest and most fundamentally sound wrestlers the business right now; that's a recipe for something special.
yes that's why i literally mentioned Drew as him and Randy put on 4 different kind of matches all 4 times in 2020 as opposed to the notion that Randy only wrestles his kind of match.
 
Looks unlikely but waiting for Brock Lesnar return, the only wrestler left who gives nostalgia.
Brock had mixed records at main events yet he managed to brutally demolished the legends like Undertaker, HHH, Cena, Reigns, Goldberg etc, not to mention in his early days he overcame legends like Rock, Kurt Angle Big Show, Mark Henry etc.

Though WWE failed to capitalise on Brock's aura as he never had a proper match against Rated R Superstar Edge and Dave the Animal Batista
Brock, Rock, Edge, Rey, Randy are still there and Randy is possibly in the best physique of his life and the freshest he's been for years after a long time out. I won't call his act nostalgia but he's quite literally one who's instead of having lost a step or two has added new tricks to his armory and he's the best at knowing when to use them.
Rock was carried by Cody and Roman but he showed he can still put on great entertainment now if he has the right partner. And his gimmick change was amazing.

Regardless of what people may say about Edge, he's still very much one of the ATGs and still a ring general in a promotion where there are all other indie wrestlers. His mic work never felt off, he is just as good in the ring as he was back in his prime. It's just a shame that where he wrestles, he isn't really made to feel like a big deal. Although his recent feud with Black is promising.
 
The issue I have is Orton Vs Gunther has legs to carry on into the summer. However they have been booking Tama Tonga very strong.

I'm interested to see how they book Tama Tonga Vs Orton tomorrow, I do suspect Owens will get involved. But ideally Gunther should win the tournament.
 
The issue I have is Orton Vs Gunther has legs to carry on into the summer. However they have been booking Tama Tonga very strong.

I'm interested to see how they book Tama Tonga Vs Orton tomorrow, I do suspect Owens will get involved. But ideally Gunther should win the tournament.
You can always revisit it down the line. Right now, both guys are on different brands and Gunther already has a bunch of potential opponents on RAW.
 
Every week AEW gives you something dumb to laugh at. This week it was both Hook and Shibata winning a three way match after they both submitted Bryan Keith. Then they had their World Champion go 10 minutes with Christian's flunkey Nick Wayne, who has generally been booked like a jobber...and that too days before the PPV. And then, they just straight up trolled us by booking Bryan Danielson v Satnam Singh as the main-event. I know people say that Bryan can even have a great match with a broomstick, but I don't think anyone expected him to take it literally. Although I guess this was more like Bryan trying to wrestle a tree or a fridge.
 
I can see why Jim and especially Brian Last have been huge marks of Logan Paul; Logan has pro israeli views and recently made fun of children being killed in Gaza, during his exchanges with Ryan Garcia
 
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Every week AEW gives you something dumb to laugh at. This week it was both Hook and Shibata winning a three way match after they both submitted Bryan Keith. Then they had their World Champion go 10 minutes with Christian's flunkey Nick Wayne, who has generally been booked like a jobber...and that too days before the PPV. And then, they just straight up trolled us by booking Bryan Danielson v Satnam Singh as the main-event. I know people say that Bryan can even have a great match with a broomstick, but I don't think anyone expected him to take it literally. Although I guess this was more like Bryan trying to wrestle a tree or a fridge.

To be fair to Bryan, he isn’t exactly Shawn Michaels who even had a decent match with a statue in The Great Khali and on top of that, AEW have done little to develop Satnam, I could be wrong but he gets booked like once every 2 years ? they do all their big guys dirty, even Wardlow has gone so cold. I suppose the other element here is that they just don’t know how to develop talent, they can’t take credit for actually building somebody green up and making them a star, that is yet to happen.
 
So there's a video doing the rounds, that Triple H saying, winners of the King & Queen of the ring will receive a championship opportunity on Summer Slam however it will be brand specific.

Interesting.
 
Watched the Fatal 4 Way Universal Title match, Champion Lesnar up against Strowman Reigns and Samoa though Lesnar took a real time beating and Strownan showed his insane power also the super punch move my Reigns is not the most lethal attack other than hoopla, have to say Brock Lesnar with his UFC skills added another dimension to WWE, earlier in the match Strowman hits a knee to Lesnar jaw/ear to which Lesnar showed his UFC fist to him. Carnage absolute carnage those power body slams to Lesnar.
 
The issue I have is Orton Vs Gunther has legs to carry on into the summer. However they have been booking Tama Tonga very strong.

I'm interested to see how they book Tama Tonga Vs Orton tomorrow, I do suspect Owens will get involved. But ideally Gunther should win the tournament.
Regardless of how strong Tama Tona has been booked in WWE, him making Magnificent Muttley sounds during that backstage segment will never stop being hilarious.
 
Not a fan of the Saudi state but damn they really know how to spend money and host events. The stage on SmackDown was freakin huge. Almost looked like a WrestleMania stage and the entire set-up was really well-done too. Made the show look very major league. I can see why they want to do more international shows.
 
So there's a video doing the rounds, that Triple H saying, winners of the King & Queen of the ring will receive a championship opportunity on Summer Slam however it will be brand specific.

Interesting.
Gunther and Orton are both amazing potential feuds for Cody. But I wanna to see Cody v Orton more right now. And its the kind of match that has to be at a big event like SummerSlam. Gunther v Cody can be their version of Flair v Vader. And I think they should save that for a future WrestleMania, when Gunther is more established at the top of the card.
 
To be fair to Bryan, he isn’t exactly Shawn Michaels who even had a decent match with a statue in The Great Khali and on top of that, AEW have done little to develop Satnam, I could be wrong but he gets booked like once every 2 years ? they do all their big guys dirty, even Wardlow has gone so cold. I suppose the other element here is that they just don’t know how to develop talent, they can’t take credit for actually building somebody green up and making them a star, that is yet to happen.
This match more than anything, showcased their atrocious booking. Not only was the match godawful...maybe the worst of Bryan's career, they also decided to protect Satnam fkin Singh, an immobile 7+ foot giant who I only recall seeing wrestle twice on TV in the last 5 years. Its definitely the first time I have seen him wrestle a singles match. And Bryan won by DQ. What a way to bury one of the few money-drawing names on your roster.
 
Jim couldn’t bare to do colour for AEW anymore, it must have been too much for him to watch it any further after the blood bath segment:

I think he gave up on AEW a long time ago. Remember during the pandemic when he would point out obvious holes in logic in matches and then the fans started getting on him online: "how dare you point out the obviously visible flaws in our favorite wrestlers?". And then he just stopped giving a sh!t after a certain point and who can blame him? This is the guy who called some of the most iconic matches and moments in pro-wrestling where the crowd would be coming unglued.

Wishing him a speedy recovery. He has been through alot in the last few years.
 
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Not a fan of the Saudi state but damn they really know how to spend money and host events. The stage on SmackDown was freakin huge. Almost looked like a WrestleMania stage and the entire set-up was really well-done too. Made the show look very major league. I can see why they want to do more international shows.

This is their agenda essentially Friday - Saturday:

- WWE Smackdown
- Matchroom vs Queensbury 5v5 Boxing Card
- WWE King & Queen Of The Ring

Three huge events in the space of 24 hours or so, that takes a shear amount of astute planning by any stretch of the imagination, and more impressive is the quality despite their relative lack of experience in the entertainment business.
 

SmackDown Results: May 24, 2024​

  • Nia Jax def. Bianca Belair in a Queen of the Ring Semifinals Match
  • LA Knight & The Street Profits def. A-Town Down Under & Carmelo Hayes
  • Bayley def. Chelsea Green
  • Randy Orton def. Tama Tonga in a King of the Ring Tournament Semifinals Match
 
Gunther v Randy Orton was bloody outstanding. This match was like a giant middle finger to the modern style. It was deliberately paced and built to perfection and gave you everything that's missing from wrestling these days. Every single punch, kick and headlock meant something and was employed for the purpose of winning the match. When Gunther started chopping Orton, Orton tried to stop him and counter with his punches, knowing full well that chops were Gunther's strong suit. He certainly didn't stand there and take 15 chops like an idiot and then no-sell them. Gunther exploited Orton's knee, which was taped up and his back, which we all know Orton has has struggled with. He just came back from a severe back injury that nearly ended his career. Orton's selling was incredible throughout the match. I don't know if the finish was intended this way or botched. But regardless, it did make sense from a booking stand-point.

This match was not 6 star banger, and that's precisely what makes it so great. Because matches like these that rely on fundamental pro-wrestling principles and feature two guys whose in-ring work is absolutely spotless are very, very rare to see these days.
 
Wrestling is so boring without those John Cena and Randy Orton feuds. Or the Undertaker and Kane era. These new guys are just too scripted.
 
Gunther v Randy Orton was bloody outstanding. This match was like a giant middle finger to the modern style. It was deliberately paced and built to perfection and gave you everything that's missing from wrestling these days. Every single punch, kick and headlock meant something and was employed for the purpose of winning the match. When Gunther started chopping Orton, Orton tried to stop him and counter with his punches, knowing full well that chops were Gunther's strong suit. He certainly didn't stand there and take 15 chops like an idiot and then no-sell them. Gunther exploited Orton's knee, which was taped up and his back, which we all know Orton has has struggled with. He just came back from a severe back injury that nearly ended his career. Orton's selling was incredible throughout the match. I don't know if the finish was intended this way or botched. But regardless, it did make sense from a booking stand-point.

This match was not 6 star banger, and that's precisely what makes it so great. Because matches like these that rely on fundamental pro-wrestling principles and feature two guys whose in-ring work is absolutely spotless are very, very rare to see these days.

MOTY candidate imo I haven’t been watching much lately but this was masterful, had that big fight feel and two heavyweights in wrestling going toe to toe, you summed it up beautifully and I genuinely felt this sort of blurred the lines between fiction and reality, I saw a high level chess match between Usyk and Fury last week, this was wrestlings equivalent of that.

My only gripe is that this audience in the ME while hot, was probably not smartened up to the work they did, and that finish was just perfect and not something any of us can say we honestly saw coming, and it made sense.

They’ve made the throwback style work in a modern setting and gelled so well stylistically, I think they can have even better matches, I hope this is not another one and done.
 
The other match I watched after seeing some intriguing highlights was Becky/Liv, I thought they had an excellent opener for the WHC. And I just feel Liv’s work as a heel is even better, has to be the most improved wrestler of the last few years and her character work is spot on, Becky obviously set up the match but you have to give credit to Liv to. Becky doesn’t have the athleticism she once did but can still really go and has great matches with everyone due to her ring IQ. The WHC looked great on Liv and I sense she will have a better title run then Rhea did.
 
Not watched anything else on the card and am not watching anything involving that zionist vermin
 
Wrestling is so boring without those John Cena and Randy Orton feuds. Or the Undertaker and Kane era. These new guys are just too scripted.
Wrestling is actually less scripted now than it has ever been. The only people that are scripted are those that need it and don't have the natural ability on the mic. In the last two years, wrestling and particularly WWE has been going through arguably its greatest boom period since the Attitude Era. And I for one, am glad that I am not watching another boring John Cena and Randy Orton for the umpteenth time.
 
Not watched anything else on the card and am not watching anything involving that zionist vermin
The IC title Three Way was pretty good. Easily the second best match on the show. Sami was over like rover in Saudi. It was sight to see. He also did some crazy feats of strength in that match like hitting a blue thunder bomb and sunset powerbomb on 300+ lbs Bronson Reed. I thought they gave Chad a nice out too, who was no less brilliant himself in this match. And now this feud can be completely about Zayn and Gable.
 
The other match I watched after seeing some intriguing highlights was Becky/Liv, I thought they had an excellent opener for the WHC. And I just feel Liv’s work as a heel is even better, has to be the most improved wrestler of the last few years and her character work is spot on, Becky obviously set up the match but you have to give credit to Liv to. Becky doesn’t have the athleticism she once did but can still really go and has great matches with everyone due to her ring IQ. The WHC looked great on Liv and I sense she will have a better title run then Rhea did.
As ridiculous as it was to see Becky dressed up like an orchestra conductor, I thought this was a good match. I didn't expect Liv to win and a little bit of sloppiness at the end aside, I thought she did fairly well here. But even more than that, I am really digging the story they are telling here with Dom getting romantically involved with Liv now that Mami is away. It will set the ground perfectly for Rhea Ripley's face-turn when she comes back and really do alot to get some heat on Liv and Dom.
 
MOTY candidate imo I haven’t been watching much lately but this was masterful, had that big fight feel and two heavyweights in wrestling going toe to toe, you summed it up beautifully and I genuinely felt this sort of blurred the lines between fiction and reality, I saw a high level chess match between Usyk and Fury last week, this was wrestlings equivalent of that.

My only gripe is that this audience in the ME while hot, was probably not smartened up to the work they did, and that finish was just perfect and not something any of us can say we honestly saw coming, and it made sense.

They’ve made the throwback style work in a modern setting and gelled so well stylistically, I think they can have even better matches, I hope this is not another one and done.
It's amazing how well these two guys understand psychology. As much as I wanted Orton to win while I was watching the match, I think Gunther winning is the right call. It is time to make Gunther a main-eventer and I think it will be great to see him win the WHC at SummerSlam and then walk into Bash in Berlin one month later, as World Champion.

I do question though how Drew v Punk fits into all this? Because surely Drew has to win the belt at Clash at the Castle in Scotland.
 
Stumbled onto an old article where Bret was expressing his opinion on chops. And he's kinda right.

Like superkicks, I feel like chops have been ruined by American wrestlers trying to ape the Japanese wrestling they grew up on. Chops should only be used by guys like Sheamus and Gunther, who actually make you believe that they are killing their opponent with their chops.

On the subject of chops, Hart said they are treated like a joke but they really hurt. Hart stated that while performers like two-time WWE Hall Of Famer Ric Flair do nothing but chop, he never understood the move because no one has ever won a fight from chopping his opponent in the chest or slapping him in the face.

"The chops started out as a rib! That's what the old timers, like the [pro] wrestlers, would do to the rookies... they would chop them, like, 'slap!' And keep chopping them until they had welts on their chest and blisters. You could get blisters all across your chest and little red bubbles that hurt a lot." Hart said, "when I worked with Ric Flair and guys like that, all they would do is chop. And I'm like, 'for what?' Like, whoever won a fight from a chop? It's like slapping somebody in the face. I could slap somebody in the face all day and not hurt him.

"It's not fun, but it kind of got accepted. It's sort of a rib that got taken for reality today, where people chop each other and they think it's great wrestling. The fans egg it on. I think [pro] wrestling fans sometimes egg on anything that is stupid or that hurts for real. Like, 'do that again' or 'let's try that again.'"
 
It's amazing how well these two guys understand psychology. As much as I wanted Orton to win while I was watching the match, I think Gunther winning is the right call. It is time to make Gunther a main-eventer and I think it will be great to see him win the WHC at SummerSlam and then walk into Bash in Berlin one month later, as World Champion.

I do question though how Drew v Punk fits into all this? Because surely Drew has to win the belt at Clash at the Castle in Scotland.

I think with Hunter in-charge of creative, it would surprise me if Punk ever lifts the WHC. A program between Drew and Punk also doesn't need the title on paper, in my opinion, I think the WHC needs a big name to carry the strap for a bit; but ignoring that, Drew/Punk is big without the championship.

It's possible Punk costs Drew yet again, but this time in Glasgow?

I am assuming this would be the plan if Punk is fit for SummerSlam.

If Punk isn't fit for SummerSlam, then I think Gunther / Drew is probably the next big match and maybe at that event, Punk plays a role in costing Drew the championship?

If Punk isn't fit for SummerSlam, then Drew/Punk could be booked for Survivor Series
 
Stumbled onto an old article where Bret was expressing his opinion on chops. And he's kinda right.

Like superkicks, I feel like chops have been ruined by American wrestlers trying to ape the Japanese wrestling they grew up on. Chops should only be used by guys like Sheamus and Gunther, who actually make you believe that they are killing their opponent with their chops.

I have seen some street fights where the chop has been used ahaha, but I get what Bret is saying and I do agree with him, but not on Flair I presume it's some feud he hasn't settled yet or whatever because there was more to Flair then that lol I don't think the chop has been butchered like the super kick, and on top of that, when Sheamus or Gunther do it, the move is protected as well, because they do it in a way that nobody else can, I felt that way about Shawn's Sweet Chin Music, you can watch 100's of superkicks, nobody does it like Shawn, especially in the 2000's the way he got right under you and used max leverage possible, and with him being 6ft to, it just looked so mean, anybody else who does it, just not the same impact, same with Gunther or Sheamus imo, did you feel that way about Shawn's finisher to especially in the 2000's looking back?
 
I have seen some street fights where the chop has been used ahaha, but I get what Bret is saying and I do agree with him, but not on Flair I presume it's some feud he hasn't settled yet or whatever because there was more to Flair then that lol I don't think the chop has been butchered like the super kick, and on top of that, when Sheamus or Gunther do it, the move is protected as well, because they do it in a way that nobody else can, I felt that way about Shawn's Sweet Chin Music, you can watch 100's of superkicks, nobody does it like Shawn, especially in the 2000's the way he got right under you and used max leverage possible, and with him being 6ft to, it just looked so mean, anybody else who does it, just not the same impact, same with Gunther or Sheamus imo, did you feel that way about Shawn's finisher to especially in the 2000's looking back?
The Flair one does seem like a bit of low-blow by Bret. He and Ric had a professional rivalry back in the day so I can understand it. But yeah, I did...Shawn's superkick to me was one of the best finishers because it was so unpredictable. Even more so than the RKO. Shawn was a master at executing it as you mentioned with the leverage, and knew exactly when to use it too. The Shelton Benjamin one is probably the most iconic but there are quite a few memorable ones from Shawn's second run.

Though I never saw him wrestle, Chris Adams, the inventor of the super kick had a heck of a super kick too. It wasn't as good as Shawn's but it looked like it damn near killed the person who took it.
 
I think with Hunter in-charge of creative, it would surprise me if Punk ever lifts the WHC. A program between Drew and Punk also doesn't need the title on paper, in my opinion, I think the WHC needs a big name to carry the strap for a bit; but ignoring that, Drew/Punk is big without the championship.

It's possible Punk costs Drew yet again, but this time in Glasgow?

I am assuming this would be the plan if Punk is fit for SummerSlam.

If Punk isn't fit for SummerSlam, then I think Gunther / Drew is probably the next big match and maybe at that event, Punk plays a role in costing Drew the championship?

If Punk isn't fit for SummerSlam, then Drew/Punk could be booked for Survivor Series
To be fair, I don;t think Punk needs the belt at this point of his career. But at the same time, you can't ignore the fact that Punk will elevate the WHC, which right now is playing second fiddle to the IC Championship.

I did think about the possibility of Punk costing Drew in Glasgow but man, they would really be doing Drew dirty if they did that. Especially after the last Clash at the Castle and this one being in his home country. But let's see what happens, it would be a great way to really heat up this feud though. I guess it all boils down on when Punk is returning.

If Punk isn't on the card then they will need something big like Cody v Orton and/or Roman's return match on the card.
 
The Flair one does seem like a bit of low-blow by Bret. He and Ric had a professional rivalry back in the day so I can understand it. But yeah, I did...Shawn's superkick to me was one of the best finishers because it was so unpredictable. Even more so than the RKO. Shawn was a master at executing it as you mentioned with the leverage, and knew exactly when to use it too. The Shelton Benjamin one is probably the most iconic but there are quite a few memorable ones from Shawn's second run.

Though I never saw him wrestle, Chris Adams, the inventor of the super kick had a heck of a super kick too. It wasn't as good as Shawn's but it looked like it damn near killed the person who took it.
HBK doing the SCM and falling dead on the opponent right after was a sight to watch.
 
To be fair, I don;t think Punk needs the belt at this point of his career. But at the same time, you can't ignore the fact that Punk will elevate the WHC, which right now is playing second fiddle to the IC Championship.

I did think about the possibility of Punk costing Drew in Glasgow but man, they would really be doing Drew dirty if they did that. Especially after the last Clash at the Castle and this one being in his home country. But let's see what happens, it would be a great way to really heat up this feud though. I guess it all boils down on when Punk is returning.

If Punk isn't on the card then they will need something big like Cody v Orton and/or Roman's return match on the card.

I don’t know if it would happen, but I think there’s a story there for a Punk win, at the least similar to when Shawn won after he came back in 2002. It wouldn’t have meant as much if HHH won it otherwise, Darth Burius got to be the champ by beating a name, not sure why this is lost on Hunter now, if something served him alone then there’s more thought
 

WWE RAW Lineup for May 27, 2024 Episode:​

  • Braun Strowman vs. JD McDonagh
  • Liv Morgan’s first appearance as Women’s World Champion
  • GUNTHER’s first appearance after becoming King of The Ring
 
MJF's return was so brilliant. Only watched the clip of his return. He's so over and full of aura.
Head and shoulders above the rest that guy is apart from the vets.
Heard Edge vs Black was pretty great too.
 

WWE RAW Lineup for May 27, 2024 Episode:​

  • Braun Strowman vs. JD McDonagh
  • Liv Morgan’s first appearance as Women’s World Champion
  • GUNTHER’s first appearance after becoming King of The Ring

Why don’t you start posting the AEW Dynamite results to 🥶
 
Thanks for your suggestion, will start doing it soon.

Oh no what have I done 🤣🤣 @RedwoodOriginal

It will make for some amusing browsing for a few of us but you know maybe some of it will change now that MJF is back.

Another suggestion it may be rude of me to suggest again, but if you’re able to post the scheduled matches before RAW on Mondays or Smackdown on Fridays that could be interesting to. Previews are normally written by WWE a day or two before, plus would give us an idea of what to tune into maybe
 
Great to see MJF back, he lifts the brand and they need to piggy back of his return to make the promotion less depressing for everyone
What did you make of the Triple H denim leather jacket (what JC would call a hat on a hat) 😂 ?
 
MJF's return was so brilliant. Only watched the clip of his return. He's so over and full of aura.
Head and shoulders above the rest that guy is apart from the vets.
Heard Edge vs Black was pretty great too.
It was a fun match but nothing special. Gangrel showed up to help Edge.
 
Oh no what have I done 🤣🤣 @RedwoodOriginal

It will make for some amusing browsing for a few of us but you know maybe some of it will change now that MJF is back.

Another suggestion it may be rude of me to suggest again, but if you’re able to post the scheduled matches before RAW on Mondays or Smackdown on Fridays that could be interesting to. Previews are normally written by WWE a day or two before, plus would give us an idea of what to tune into maybe
We can only hope. MJF has alot of power and creative freedom regarding his booking. So that's the reason for hoping but the Tony factor is always there.
 
We can only hope. MJF has alot of power and creative freedom regarding his booking. So that's the reason for hoping but the Tony factor is always there.

Hope his stuff will be good at least and that means the top of the card, MJF is a known draw outside the more established names
 
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