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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

RedwoodOriginal said:
That's all true but you we have to remember that Triple H is not Vince McMahon. At the end of the day, he's an employee of the company. And you never really know in wrestling. Sometimes companies to do listen to the fans if it gets to that point. This just feels like the beginning of the fans revolting against Triple H in a big way. Previously it was a pocket of fans who were unhappy about LA Knight's booking or the overpushing of Rollins but this feels like everyone kinda of revolting against him. And who knows? Who's to say a couple of more similar incidents in the future won't put his job in question?
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Maybe Dwanta will be give us a big Xmas prezzy this time next year
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 What's next? 'Take me back to 1999 WCW and the rise of Russo'? :wahab2
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It’s mostly the 2incher marks from a certain part of south asia who drool over that untalented body builder posing as a wrestler, I can see wanting to big up Paul personally based on his personality attracting all the cretin’s off the world, but how is it possible to be a fan of his heel work; that defeats the purpose of his primary objective, his best move was marrying Stephanie for easy cheap heat and being given a gimmick intended for Owen Hart.

In the ring 4/10
On the mic 4/10

Always had to be carried by his multiple fathers who turned him side ways each time: Austin, Rock, Shawn, Mankind & Taker.

With the kind of push he had you’d think he’d have made so many stars, he couldn’t do it then & his dated booking presently is evidence of his politics and low ring IQ.
 
It’s week 2 & they’ve completely buried all the heat Gunther had.

He has come out each time & just smiled at everyone like a re!ard.

They’ve buried the heat faster then I anticipated so well done there H for recycling the garbage segments you use to book yourself in.

This just reinforces that Cena should have gone over because it was a much easier win, right now you got a monkey in a space suit named H, he is absolutely clueless, he could never get himself over, why does anybody expect him to create a new major star?

Gunther should be running through the roster like prime Kurt Angle in 2006, instead they book him to get cheat heat, these promos and segments are pure H 101 it’s not even a joke.

Calling Cena a B, we’re getting to school playground level cusses and even the bacheh have more creativity then that 4/10 garbage can.
 
shaz619 said:
It’s week 2 & they’ve completely buried all the heat Gunther had.

He has come out each time & just smiled at everyone like a re!ard.

They’ve buried the heat faster then I anticipated so well done there H for recycling the garbage segments you use to book yourself in.

This just reinforces that Cena should have gone over because it was a much easier win, right now you got a monkey in a space suit named H, he is absolutely clueless, he could never get himself over, why does anybody expect him to create a new major star?

Gunther should be running through the roster like prime Kurt Angle in 2006, instead they book him to get cheat heat, these promos and segments are pure H 101 it’s not even a joke.

Calling Cena a B, we’re getting to school playground level cusses and even the bacheh have more creativity then that 4/10 garbage can.
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Cena 100% should've won the final match.

That was a blunder.

They also failed to utilize Gunther's momentum. So, double blunder.

WWE has become a farce.

@shaz619, do you think AEW is better now?
 
shaz619 said:
It’s mostly the 2incher marks from a certain part of south asia who drool over that untalented body builder posing as a wrestler, I can see wanting to big up Paul personally based on his personality attracting all the cretin’s off the world, but how is it possible to be a fan of his heel work; that defeats the purpose of his primary objective, his best move was marrying Stephanie for easy cheap heat and being given a gimmick intended for Owen Hart.

In the ring 4/10
On the mic 4/10

Always had to be carried by his multiple fathers who turned him side ways each time: Austin, Rock, Shawn, Mankind & Taker.

With the kind of push he had you’d think he’d have made so many stars, he couldn’t do it then & his dated booking presently is evidence of his politics and low ring IQ.
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Forget about those guys. He was not even on par with Jericho, Edge and Angle.

During his "Reign of Terror" , he was nowhere near as good as even those guys as they were far superior wrestlers and even better as characters.

And they were far better at elevating young "faces" to main event status than this guy ever was.
 
shaz619 said:
It’s mostly the 2incher marks from a certain part of south asia who drool over that untalented body builder posing as a wrestler, I can see wanting to big up Paul personally based on his personality attracting all the cretin’s off the world, but how is it possible to be a fan of his heel work; that defeats the purpose of his primary objective, his best move was marrying Stephanie for easy cheap heat and being given a gimmick intended for Owen Hart.

In the ring 4/10
On the mic 4/10

Always had to be carried by his multiple fathers who turned him side ways each time: Austin, Rock, Shawn, Mankind & Taker.

With the kind of push he had you’d think he’d have made so many stars, he couldn’t do it then & his dated booking presently is evidence of his politics and low ring IQ.
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Anyone who thinks Triple H was a great heel has to have rocks for brains. All he did was beat every babyface on the roster. He never lost. Zero personality, mediocre in the ring, a charisma vacuum on the mic... a true 4/10 performer with a 10/10 aptitude for kissing @$$.
 
Raja Ishtiaq said:
Guys like Gunther would have been a curtain jerkers during the great Attitude Era. Behave lol

Triple H was the top heel during the greatest era of wrestling but according to you he's not one of the top heels of all time #logic lol

Still have neckbeards like you furious two decades later.
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What exactly is your logic? The fact that you used to drool over his roided up bodybuilder body? On second thought, I guess that explains alot 🤔
 
sweep_shot said:
Cena 100% should've won the final match.

That was a blunder.

They also failed to utilize Gunther's momentum. So, double blunder.

WWE has become a farce.

@shaz619, do you think AEW is better now?
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The idea they had was fine, but you need to look at the bigger picture & as Cena likes to say, what’s the ‘why’, to make Gunther, ok, but then using the heat in this manner is such a waste and Trips took most of it as the booker & that’s never a good thing. Given their view on the long term was so limited, Cena going over in his final match was much easier to book, it would be a good conclusion for his character & the fans etc And we move into a new era on a more positive note.

I watched AEW religiously when CM Punk was there, he had more creative control and was responsible at one point for booking one of their TV Shows (Collision) which was the best wrestling programme on TV, and anything else he was involved with over there was better than anything else in wrestling during that time, save maybe for The Bloodline angle. But their booker has issues of his own & I stopped watching after how they handled Punk’s departure, @RedwoodOriginal may have more recent feedback.

There’s too much wrestling going on but I’ve been enjoying what Shawn’s been doing in NXT.

But overall the picture for the wrestling business looks bleak & TKO coming in have accelerated that, AEW ate all the great independent companies of all that gave us so many great stars like AJ, Punk, Joe etc and Japanese wrestling has suffered to through working with the likes of AEW & allowing them to poach their talent.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Anyone who thinks Triple H was a great heel has to have rocks for brains. All he did was beat every babyface on the roster. He never lost. Zero personality, mediocre in the ring, a charisma vacuum on the mic... a true 4/10 performer with a 10/10 aptitude for kissing @$$.
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I mean 4/10 is not terrible it’s ok, I’d give his puthar a 2 or 3 out of 10. If this sore loser wasn’t such an insecure human garbage can he could have been a true great. On his best day he’s just a poor mans Jeff Jarett & the latter gave this business something at least.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Forget about those guys. He was not even on par with Jericho, Edge and Angle.

During his "Reign of Terror" , he was nowhere near as good as even those guys as they were far superior wrestlers and even better as characters.

And they were far better at elevating young "faces" to main event status than this guy ever was.
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The way he sabotaged Jericho’s career so early was criminal, he did everything to try and prove he didn’t belong, because Jericho could easily have executed his role 10x better but Vince could never fully strap Jericho with a rocket while the son in law was about. That false finish when Jericho won the title with the lionsault was more designed for H to say, Hey dad, I told you he don’t belong, but it backfired massively:

 
Bhaijaan said:
@RedwoodOriginal

Everyone got goodies but Redwood bhai got a portrait of The Rock

#NationOfDomination

😀
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I wont lie I had a poster of The Rock, alongside Shawn, Taker & Trish Stratus in my room
:yk3 I was too afraid of Kane.


The Rock was why I fell in love with wrestling, he was just so cool in the late 90’s and early 2000’s.

When he’s cutting a promo now and while it’s good you know it’s scripted, am like man, what happened, having said that The Final Boss was maybe the best character WWE came up with in years.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Anyone who thinks Triple H was a great heel has to have rocks for brains. All he did was beat every babyface on the roster. He never lost. Zero personality, mediocre in the ring, a charisma vacuum on the mic... a true 4/10 performer with a 10/10 aptitude for kissing @$$.
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The guy had go away heat rather than heel heat. People just wanted to turn off the tv when he was on.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Forget about those guys. He was not even on par with Jericho, Edge and Angle.

During his "Reign of Terror" , he was nowhere near as good as even those guys as they were far superior wrestlers and even better as characters.

And they were far better at elevating young "faces" to main event status than this guy ever was.
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Jericho, Edge and Angle are easily a tier or two above Trips. They actually had you invested in their storylines and matches whether they were faces or heels. Trips just wanted everyone to switch off the tv.
 
shaz619 said:
I mean 4/10 is not terrible it’s ok, I’d give his puthar a 2 or 3 out of 10. If this sore loser wasn’t such an insecure human garbage can he could have been a true great. On his best day he’s just a poor mans Jeff Jarett & the latter gave this business something at least.
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He could do business when he wanted to, but the reality is that he rarely ever wanted to. He was all about himself, and the simple fact was that Triple H, as a character, personality and in-ring performer was simply not that interesting. The best moments in his career were when he was working with the guys drawing money (Austin, Rock) but he was never the one drawing the money. Only thing I will give him full credit for is Batista. He definitely had a big hand in that and it culminated perfectly at WrestleMania. But on the whole I would say that he has done far more damage to the business than he has been a benefit to it. Just imagine if it was someone like Jericho in that position, getting that push and being sold as a top heel.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He could do business when he wanted to, but the reality is that he rarely ever wanted to. He was all about himself, and the simple fact was that Triple H, as a character, personality and in-ring performer was simply not that interesting. The best moments in his career were when he was working with the guys drawing money (Austin, Rock) but he was never the one drawing the money. Only thing I will give him full credit for is Batista. He definitely had a big hand in that and it culminated perfectly at WrestleMania. But on the whole I would say that he has done far more damage to the business than he has been a benefit to it. Just imagine if it was someone like Jericho in that position, getting that push and being sold as a top heel.
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Honestly, Batista's booking starting from around Survivor Series was pure Vince genius. The tweener arc, the slow burn leading to the Rumble victory and then Mania. Batista's acting chops were perfect during that time. The only thing Trips should get credit for is losing clean to Batista thrice in a space of 6 months.
 
shaz619 said:
The way he sabotaged Jericho’s career so early was criminal, he did everything to try and prove he didn’t belong, because Jericho could easily have executed his role 10x better but Vince could never fully strap Jericho with a rocket while the son in law was about. That false finish when Jericho won the title with the lionsault was more designed for H to say, Hey dad, I told you he don’t belong, but it backfired massively:

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The pop when Jericho won was insane. A real 'egg on the face' moment for Trips. He tried everything in his power to bury Jericho, but as they say, you can't keep a good man down. Jericho had the last laugh in kayfabe and real life though. He and Benoit captured the tag belts in that incredible match on SD where HHH tore his quad, and Jericho went on to become the first-ever Undisputed Champion while HHH was sidelined - something that was widely believed to be HHH's spot.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Honestly, Batista's booking starting from around Survivor Series was pure Vince genius. The tweener arc, the slow burn leading to the Rumble victory and then Mania. Batista's acting chops were perfect during that time. The only thing Trips should get credit for is losing clean to Batista thrice in a space of 6 months.
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HHH back then had alot of creative control that other wrestlers did not. Most people even say that he was essentially on the RAW creative team at the time. Plus if you hear Batista talk about it, he also seems to indicate that HHH had alot to do with that storyline.
 
shaz619 said:
The way he sabotaged Jericho’s career so early was criminal, he did everything to try and prove he didn’t belong, because Jericho could easily have executed his role 10x better but Vince could never fully strap Jericho with a rocket while the son in law was about. That false finish when Jericho won the title with the lionsault was more designed for H to say, Hey dad, I told you he don’t belong, but it backfired massively:

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This was still OK. They buried him really bad in WrestleMania X8. Jericho was red hot in 2001 when son in law was injured.

He was going toe to toe with the Rock and Austin in 2001 and then when SIL came back, he became a proxy for Stephanie for what was essentially a feud between Triple H and Stephanie Mcmahon.

His career as a main eventer never recovered for years after that.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This was still OK. They buried him really bad in WrestleMania X8. Jericho was red hot in 2001 when son in law was injured.

He was going toe to toe with the Rock and Austin in 2001 and then when SIL came back, he became a proxy for Stephanie for what was essentially a feud between Triple H and Stephanie Mcmahon.

His career as a main eventer never recovered for years after that.
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I think that has to go down as one of the worst WrestleMania main-events of all-time. And that's exactly how that feud was booked in a deliberate attempt to minimize Jericho. It should have been Jericho's moment in the sun - main-eventing WrestleMania in his home country, instead, the only reason people remember that match is because it main-evented over Hogan v Rock.
 
shaz619 said:
I wont lie I had a poster of The Rock, alongside Shawn, Taker & Trish Stratus in my room
:yk3 I was too afraid of Kane.


The Rock was why I fell in love with wrestling, he was just so cool in the late 90’s and early 2000’s.

When he’s cutting a promo now and while it’s good you know it’s scripted, am like man, what happened, having said that The Final Boss was maybe the best character WWE came up with in years.
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1999-2000 impact of masked Kane on pro wrestling is underrated. He was as big as anyone for a lot of worldwide fans if WWF.

No doubt the Rock and Austin were the main guys from story telling pov.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
HHH back then had alot of creative control that other wrestlers did not. Most people even say that he was essentially on the RAW creative team at the time. Plus if you hear Batista talk about it, he also seems to indicate that HHH had alot to do with that storyline.
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He had a lot of creative but I think it was Vince making all the calls. Trips never was that good with booking and giving crowd what they want as we can see now. Batista simply speaks so highly of him because he got the job after Trips had Jindrak replaced and properly put him over in the 3 matches without any dusty finish or 50 50 booking. And the two are close friends which also explains. Same way HBK has never said bad about Trips.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think that has to go down as one of the worst WrestleMania main-events of all-time. And that's exactly how that feud was booked in a deliberate attempt to minimize Jericho. It should have been Jericho's moment in the sun - main-eventing WrestleMania in his home country, instead, the only reason people remember that match is because it main-evented over Hogan v Rock.
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The best thing to come out of that was having Noseley lose the title to Hogan on the very next PPV.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 Equating Cornette to Russo is pretty ignorant. There is no logical comparison between the two in any universe.

Looking forward to Cornette tearing Rollins a new one after the holidays.

nodq.com

Seth Rollins on Vince Russo and Jim Cornette: "I hate them both - I think they’re both jackasses" - NoDQ.com: WWE and AEW Coverage

The latest WWE and AEW backstage wrestling news, rumors, opinions, and special features.
nodq.com nodq.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/2003619893510586369
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This is disappointing to read when you look at how Cornette helped that garbage can v2 get started in this business, he got no respect for this industry and if there was a ever a wrestler to justify the casual POV that wrestling is fake, it’s Seth, everything about him lacks authenticity. Like his predecessor, the one thing he’s good at and that’s kissing the behinds of the right people at the top and getting drunk on the WWE kool-aid, but even doing it as much as he has, still never been remotely close to being the top guy he thinks he is, just like his father.
 
Bhaijaan said:
1999-2000 impact of masked Kane on pro wrestling is underrated. He was as big as anyone for a lot of worldwide fans if WWF.

No doubt the Rock and Austin were the main guys from story telling pov.
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Kane was arguably as over as the other three for a brief period and they should have done more with him, and I think they would have after Austin/Rock left & we transitioned into the RA era if Jericho was positioned in the same spot as H, he wouldn’t have sabotaged his push or organic popularity.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think that has to go down as one of the worst WrestleMania main-events of all-time. And that's exactly how that feud was booked in a deliberate attempt to minimize Jericho. It should have been Jericho's moment in the sun - main-eventing WrestleMania in his home country, instead, the only reason people remember that match is because it main-evented over Hogan v Rock.
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The poster for that PPV is one of my all time favourites, that 4/10 dweeb lurking in the background, his desperate attempts for the spotlight always backfired. He repeated the same tactics with Orton during WM 25. I’ve not known any other so called top guy that has shat the bed as much as H during premium events, easily the worst ‘main-eventer’ in WM history, never generated the kind of heat which was beneficial & when it was, it always took once in a lifetime stars like Austin or Rock to paper over the cracks like @ Backlash 2000, what in the hell was that WM 2000 main-event?
 
BunnyRabbit said:
He had a lot of creative but I think it was Vince making all the calls. Trips never was that good with booking and giving crowd what they want as we can see now. Batista simply speaks so highly of him because he got the job after Trips had Jindrak replaced and properly put him over in the 3 matches without any dusty finish or 50 50 booking. And the two are close friends which also explains. Same way HBK has never said bad about Trips.
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Vince & Batista himself when you look at the success outside the ring, the least H could do is put him over, so I don’t give him any credit apart from including him in Evolution.
 
shaz619 said:
This is disappointing to read when you look at how Cornette helped that garbage can v2 get started in this business, he got no respect for this industry and if there was a ever a wrestler to justify the casual POV that wrestling is fake, it’s Seth, everything about him lacks authenticity. Like his predecessor, the one thing he’s good at and that’s kissing the behinds of the right people at the top and getting drunk on the WWE kool-aid, but even doing it as much as he has, still never been remotely close to being the top guy he thinks he is, just like his father.
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Rollins is closer to the AEW Young Bucks/Elite crowd than people think. He may be a WWE lifer but we shouldn't forget that he still has that bingo hall/indie wrestler mindset, which is evident by his in-ring work and the idiotic ways in which he manages to injure himself. He is probably mad because Cornette said something bad about his friends, but he should have been smarter and heeded Sean Waltman's advice:

 
@shaz619 you got me thinking about this, so here goes, Worst Mania main-events of all-time:

Brock v Roman - WrestleMania 34
Hogan v Yokozuna - WrestleMania 9
Triple H v Orton - WrestleMania 25
Cena v Miz - WrestleMania 27
Hogan v Sid - WrestleMania 8
Triple H v Jericho - WrestleMania X8
Triple H v Roman - WrestleMania 32

WrestleMania 2000 main-event was such an obvious idea, but truth be told, I kinda enjoyed that match in a guilty pleasure kind of a way. I thought the match was okay and I liked the dynamic of all the McMahons having a dog in the race.

What do you guys think? Triple H and Hogan have such a rich body of work that it's impossible for them to not make the list more than once..
 
shaz619 said:
This is disappointing to read when you look at how Cornette helped that garbage can v2 get started in this business, he got no respect for this industry and if there was a ever a wrestler to justify the casual POV that wrestling is fake, it’s Seth, everything about him lacks authenticity. Like his predecessor, the one thing he’s good at and that’s kissing the behinds of the right people at the top and getting drunk on the WWE kool-aid, but even doing it as much as he has, still never been remotely close to being the top guy he thinks he is, just like his father.
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but yeah, to your point, this definitely shows was a disrespectful POS Rollins is. Cornette probably taught him alot about the business and booked him on top as the ROH World Champion, and this is the thanks he gets? all because you didn't like something he said something on his podcast? I mean how small-minded can you be lol
 
This WWE Vault channel uploads some real good stuff.

They got the Terry Funk retirement PPV from 1997 which featured Funk v Bret in Funk's retirement match:


Hogan v Flair at MSG. Has to be one of their earliest televised matches:

 
RedwoodOriginal said:
but yeah, to your point, this definitely shows was a disrespectful POS Rollins is. Cornette probably taught him alot about the business and booked him on top as the ROH World Champion, and this is the thanks he gets? all because you didn't like something he said something on his podcast? I mean how small-minded can you be lol
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He’s a brat who thinks he’s better than he actually is. Thinks of himself equal to punk when he’s leagues below. Didn’t he turn on CM Punk as well after he took him under his wing very early on and trained him in ROH?

One of the most overrated and over pushed stars in history. Him and his dad Paul being pushed needlessly on the audience was like force feeding someone to eat rotting banana peels from the compost bin.

Can’t believe this clown won another MITB…
 
shaz619 said:
Kane was arguably as over as the other three for a brief period and they should have done more with him, and I think they would have after Austin/Rock left & we transitioned into the RA era if Jericho was positioned in the same spot as H, he wouldn’t have sabotaged his push or organic popularity.
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Kane and Taker legit scared me in their Ministry and OG presentation respectively. Kane himself was an anomaly who would have had massive success as a singles wrestler if he hadn't come in the same time period as Taker. Because as good as Kane was, Taker just wiped the floor with every other big guy in the business. And the kayfabe storyline brother would always have him being compared to Taker. Kane was much better than the likes of Braun, Big Show, Nash, Sid etc.
Vince was also a bit guilty of not doing more with Kane during his peak. Him jobbing to Nose in 2002 killed his momentum in his later gimmick.
And when he finally had Taker put him over in 2008, his character had spent way too much time in the midcard to be a main event staple.
 
shaz619 said:
Vince & Batista himself when you look at the success outside the ring, the least H could do is put him over, so I don’t give him any credit apart from including him in Evolution.
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Yes Batista always had acting chops and he showed it well during his mainevent rise. His nuanced expressions during that time looking at the WHC title without speaking much was done extremely well and Dave played his role brilliantly during that time. That was the best mainevent rise I had witnessed in WWE. And first championship run never felt stale or stretched out despite him being a dominant babyface. The fact that it finally put an end to the reign of terror just makes it even better.
If I am not wrong it was supposed to be Randy dethroning Nose but Vince felt Randy was not ready as a face then and booked him in a feud against Taker and had Batista take Randy's place
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 you got me thinking about this, so here goes, Worst Mania main-events of all-time:

Brock v Roman - WrestleMania 34
Hogan v Yokozuna - WrestleMania 9
Triple H v Orton - WrestleMania 25
Cena v Miz - WrestleMania 27
Hogan v Sid - WrestleMania 8
Triple H v Jericho - WrestleMania X8
Triple H v Roman - WrestleMania 32

WrestleMania 2000 main-event was such an obvious idea, but truth be told, I kinda enjoyed that match in a guilty pleasure kind of a way. I thought the match was okay and I liked the dynamic of all the McMahons having a dog in the race.

What do you guys think? Triple H and Hogan have such a rich body of work that it's impossible for them to not make the list more than once..
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For Mania main events, I like to put more emphasis on the mainevents that I actually followed in real time and how much they annoyed me. For me the list is like,
Roman vs Taker
Roman vs Nose
Mania 2000
Cena vs Miz

I had phased out of WWE around the Mania 25 time so didn't follow it thankfully.

I didn't find Brock Roman 34 to be that bad, actually I was rooting for Brock the whole time and loved it when he beat Big Dog to a pulp in that mainevent. Even though that defeats the whole purpose of face heel psychology but that feud was poorly booked. It was a rather pleasant surprise that Brock won that match. The matches should have sucked, but for some reason all 3 Roman Brock Mania mainevents delivered. The 2022 one had the Tribal Chief beat Brock clean which cemented his stature at the very top even more.
Speaking of Mania 2022, Vince's last Mania in charge, it delivered massively despite having an underwhelming card. Sami vs Knoxville was too enjoyable than it had any right to be, Theory McAfee was super fun. Austin KO exceeded expectations and was a proper mark out moment for AE fans. Cody's return was done very well.
 
Suleiman said:
He’s a brat who thinks he’s better than he actually is. Thinks of himself equal to punk when he’s leagues below. Didn’t he turn on CM Punk as well after he took him under his wing very early on and trained him in ROH?

One of the most overrated and over pushed stars in history. Him and his dad Paul being pushed needlessly on the audience was like force feeding someone to eat rotting banana peels from the compost bin.

Can’t believe this clown won another MITB…
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Seth was booked much better under Vince. With the right opponent, he can work a very good match provided his partner has good in ring psyche like Cena, AJ, Edge, Roman. The moment he becomes the one in charge of laying out a match, it become a snorefest.
 
Suleiman said:
Top 3 themes ever:

1) Metallingus
2) I Walk Alone
3) Cult of Personality

Honorable Mentions: Written In My Face / No More Words / Slow Chemical
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Hold on… how could I forget… the actual numero 3 for me… Medal (ECW / Wrestling Machine version) @shaz619 :asghar :wenger :yk
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 you got me thinking about this, so here goes, Worst Mania main-events of all-time:

Brock v Roman - WrestleMania 34
Hogan v Yokozuna - WrestleMania 9
Triple H v Orton - WrestleMania 25
Cena v Miz - WrestleMania 27
Hogan v Sid - WrestleMania 8
Triple H v Jericho - WrestleMania X8
Triple H v Roman - WrestleMania 32

WrestleMania 2000 main-event was such an obvious idea, but truth be told, I kinda enjoyed that match in a guilty pleasure kind of a way. I thought the match was okay and I liked the dynamic of all the McMahons having a dog in the race.

What do you guys think? Triple H and Hogan have such a rich body of work that it's impossible for them to not make the list more than once..
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It’s not terrible it’s just the finishing stretch was just diabolical and for that I put it up there in the pantheon of H’s worst, you had molten 🔥 on The Rock & that’s how we ended Wrestlemania, that was the first time a heel went over at WM as well. If you take that out then I agree with your assessment.

More than 50% of his WM main events were the drizzling shits and when they were ok, it took first ballot HOF’s to carry that broomstick, heck it took two at WM 20!

We live in a world where we lost a true legend from that WM 20 match due to pure evils and subsequently had to put up with a 4/10 talent our whole lives, what did wrestling fans do to suffer for Benoit’s sins?

And why Benoit specifically, why Eddie, why Bray,

Why NOT Triple H.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This WWE Vault channel uploads some real good stuff.

They got the Terry Funk retirement PPV from 1997 which featured Funk v Bret in Funk's retirement match:


Hogan v Flair at MSG. Has to be one of their earliest televised matches:

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These are ok but man I miss the Network, another victim of the ruthless depression era.

And am one of the few who made full use of the Network.

I watched the HBK v Flair/Jericho rivalry in full, I just don’t know why Shawn never tried out in Hollywood because his work at the tail was cinematic on a whole new level and Jericho was brilliant to; he did try out but gave up too soon with Hollywood.

Steamboat/Flair Trilogy

The Flair For A Gold Starrcade 83

Most of the documentaries which use to be sold as special DVD’s - My favourite was the one where Bret & Shawn sat next to each other lol

Random Jim Crocket studio TV episodes

Rise & Fall of ECW

My next thing was to watch the inception of the AE era from the start, unfortunately on Netflix they only have random episodes so far.
 
@RedwoodOriginal With Hogan, some of the matches don’t age well while others do like the ones against Savage & Warrior, but even the ones you consider mediocre now, man he always had heat for that time period and his ring IQ was pretty good.

H on the other hand though - ZERO HEAT, pin-drop silence or the nasty kind of response.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Rollins is closer to the AEW Young Bucks/Elite crowd than people think. He may be a WWE lifer but we shouldn't forget that he still has that bingo hall/indie wrestler mindset, which is evident by his in-ring work and the idiotic ways in which he manages to injure himself. He is probably mad because Cornette said something bad about his friends, but he should have been smarter and heeded Sean Waltman's advice:

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The best way to sum Seth up is that even a random PPer has a good chance going for him.

He is just a fancy version of Disco Inferno.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The pop when Jericho won was insane. A real 'egg on the face' moment for Trips. He tried everything in his power to bury Jericho, but as they say, you can't keep a good man down. Jericho had the last laugh in kayfabe and real life though. He and Benoit captured the tag belts in that incredible match on SD where HHH tore his quad, and Jericho went on to become the first-ever Undisputed Champion while HHH was sidelined - something that was widely believed to be HHH's spot.
Click to expand...

H would never book something like that now, zero vision, huge ego, too much conflict of interest and just an all round mediocre talent.

Vince probably wanted Jericho all along but when Trips quad gave up, Vince didn’t delay following his instinct, he can be superstitious with injuries but a lot of the time that has served him quiet well and in this case, Jericho being coronated was one of the most important moments in wrestling history.

It was confirmation that we were firmly in a new era where guys who work that way and his size were not going to be blacklisted, Shawn/Bret paved the way but this solidified that view, and it really elevated Jericho to new heights & it’s just a damn shame that piece of crap had to come back & destroy his momentum.
 
shaz619 said:
H would never book something like that now, zero vision, huge ego, too much conflict of interest and just an all round mediocre talent.

Vince probably wanted Jericho all along but when Trips quad gave up, Vince didn’t delay following his instinct, he can be superstitious with injuries but a lot of the time that has served him quiet well and in this case, Jericho being coronated was one of the most important moments in wrestling history.

It was confirmation that we were firmly in a new era where guys who work that way and his size were not going to be blacklisted, Shawn/Bret paved the way but this solidified that
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal With Hogan, some of the matches don’t age well while others do like the ones against Savage & Warrior, but even the ones you consider mediocre now, man he always had heat for that time period and his ring IQ was pretty good.

H on the other hand though - ZERO HEAT, pin-drop silence or the nasty kind of response.
Click to expand...

view, and it really elevated Jericho to new heights & it’s just a damn shame that piece of crap had to come back & destroy his momentum.
Click to expand...
Savage is probably the least celebrated wrestler when I go back and watch his matches and promos. The guy was probably the first 10 in all categories, in ring work, promos, look, drawing and fame.
Should have had a longer run at the top. He was so precise with his moves, it seems like HBK looked up to him for his in ring finesse.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Savage is probably the least celebrated wrestler when I go back and watch his matches and promos. The guy was probably the first 10 in all categories, in ring work, promos, look, drawing and fame.
Should have had a longer run at the top. He was so precise with his moves, it seems like HBK looked up to him for his in ring finesse.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, he deserves to be on the Mount Rushmore of pro-wrestling, like you said, a 10/10 in each category. I think WWE have a lot to do with playing his legacy down, they never got over him taking Stephanie Ooooooooh Yeaaaaaaah to space mountain, & H obviously will always cry about it, so we wont ever hear much about him now, it was a big deal they put him in the HOF & it was only after he died and that was a Vince decision.
 
shaz619 said:
Absolutely, he deserves to be on the Mount Rushmore of pro-wrestling, like you said, a 10/10 in each category. I think WWE have a lot to do with playing his legacy down, they never got over him taking Stephanie Ooooooooh Yeaaaaaaah to space mountain, & H obviously will always cry about it, so we wont ever hear much about him now, it was a big deal they put him in the HOF & it was only after he died and that was a Vince decision.
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I went to Salem this year on Halloween and funnily I saw people dressed up as Taker, Mankind, Savage and Cena and NWO.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
For Mania main events, I like to put more emphasis on the mainevents that I actually followed in real time and how much they annoyed me. For me the list is like,
Roman vs Taker
Roman vs Nose
Mania 2000
Cena vs Miz

I had phased out of WWE around the Mania 25 time so didn't follow it thankfully.

I didn't find Brock Roman 34 to be that bad, actually I was rooting for Brock the whole time and loved it when he beat Big Dog to a pulp in that mainevent. Even though that defeats the whole purpose of face heel psychology but that feud was poorly booked. It was a rather pleasant surprise that Brock won that match. The matches should have sucked, but for some reason all 3 Roman Brock Mania mainevents delivered. The 2022 one had the Tribal Chief beat Brock clean which cemented his stature at the very top even more.
Speaking of Mania 2022, Vince's last Mania in charge, it delivered massively despite having an underwhelming card. Sami vs Knoxville was too enjoyable than it had any right to be, Theory McAfee was super fun. Austin KO exceeded expectations and was a proper mark out moment for AE fans. Cody's return was done very well.
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Nah WrestleMania 34 main-event was atrocious. It was basically an extended squash match that just wouldn't end. From what I recall the fans in the arena didn't sound too happy either. All the other main-events atleast had something going on. This was just horrible and it accomplished absolutely nothing.
 
Suleiman said:
He’s a brat who thinks he’s better than he actually is. Thinks of himself equal to punk when he’s leagues below. Didn’t he turn on CM Punk as well after he took him under his wing very early on and trained him in ROH?

One of the most overrated and over pushed stars in history. Him and his dad Paul being pushed needlessly on the audience was like force feeding someone to eat rotting banana peels from the compost bin.

Can’t believe this clown won another MITB…
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He said something negative about Punk when Punk was in AEW, but I don't think Punk ever gave a s**t about what Rollins thought, which is probably why he had no problem working with Temu Edge when he came back to WWE.

Unfortunately we have another bland and boring babyface run in-store once this clown comes back.
 
shaz619 said:
H would never book something like that now, zero vision, huge ego, too much conflict of interest and just an all round mediocre talent.

Vince probably wanted Jericho all along but when Trips quad gave up, Vince didn’t delay following his instinct, he can be superstitious with injuries but a lot of the time that has served him quiet well and in this case, Jericho being coronated was one of the most important moments in wrestling history.

It was confirmation that we were firmly in a new era where guys who work that way and his size were not going to be blacklisted, Shawn/Bret paved the way but this solidified that view, and it really elevated Jericho to new heights & it’s just a damn shame that piece of crap had to come back & destroy his momentum.
Click to expand...
Great point. I suppose I never really thought of it that way. It's a shame it had to take Triple Roids blowing out his quad for it to happen, but I'm glad that it did.
 
shaz619 said:
These are ok but man I miss the Network, another victim of the ruthless depression era.

And am one of the few who made full use of the Network.

I watched the HBK v Flair/Jericho rivalry in full, I just don’t know why Shawn never tried out in Hollywood because his work at the tail was cinematic on a whole new level and Jericho was brilliant to; he did try out but gave up too soon with Hollywood.

Steamboat/Flair Trilogy

The Flair For A Gold Starrcade 83

Most of the documentaries which use to be sold as special DVD’s - My favourite was the one where Bret & Shawn sat next to each other lol

Random Jim Crocket studio TV episodes

Rise & Fall of ECW

My next thing was to watch the inception of the AE era from the start, unfortunately on Netflix they only have random episodes so far.
Click to expand...
Can't really say I relate because I'm all about Piracy City baby! {insert Heyman sticker}, so for me, this is actually an easier way to access wrestling that I may not expressly plan to watch , but I can understand. If I had the WWE Network I would probably be watching a whole lot more wrestling content too.
 
shaz619 said:
These are ok but man I miss the Network, another victim of the ruthless depression era.

And am one of the few who made full use of the Network.

I watched the HBK v Flair/Jericho rivalry in full, I just don’t know why Shawn never tried out in Hollywood because his work at the tail was cinematic on a whole new level and Jericho was brilliant to; he did try out but gave up too soon with Hollywood.

Steamboat/Flair Trilogy

The Flair For A Gold Starrcade 83

Most of the documentaries which use to be sold as special DVD’s - My favourite was the one where Bret & Shawn sat next to each other lol

Random Jim Crocket studio TV episodes

Rise & Fall of ECW

My next thing was to watch the inception of the AE era from the start, unfortunately on Netflix they only have random episodes so far.
Click to expand...
Speaking of which, have you seen that Bret Hart v Terry Funk match? I was surprised by how bad and boring it was. Probably the worst Bret match I've seen, although in hindsight I'm not sure what I was expecting considering it happened in '97 when Funk was long past his prime.
 
It's amazing how much interesting Cena is to hear when he talks like a normal human being. This interview with Joe Rogan is probably the best interview of his that I've heard. Would urge everyone to seek out the clips on YT, if not the full interview... he has some interesting things to say about the price of success and getting ahead in life. He is obviously very smart so I'm not sure why he insists on being this walking, talking Pinterest machine when he usually does media.


 
Joe Hendry is a talented guy. I must admit, I haven't seen much of him in TNA and NXT, but after seeing a bit of his schtick I totally get why he has gained popularity so quickly. It's a cool gimmick, that's unique and weaponizes crowd participation. But it wouldn't work without the personality and charisma he brings to the table.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
It's amazing how much interesting Cena is to hear when he talks like a normal human being. This interview with Joe Rogan is probably the best interview of his that I've heard. Would urge everyone to seek out the clips on YT, if not the full interview... he has some interesting things to say about the price of success and getting ahead in life. He is obviously very smart so I'm not sure why he insists on being this walking, talking Pinterest machine when he usually does media.


Click to expand...
Saw it 1-2 weeks ago, first time I sat through an entire Rogan podcast.

Few ppl saying this is rogan’s best podcast ever, and I can see why.

Also regarding why he’s so robotic in general, he kinda answered that in this interview I’d like to think.

The part where he’s talking about having to apologize about the Taiwan thing to the Chinese.

Seems like after that incident he almost became traumatized lol and started becoming ultra careful with his words.

Which is a pity because some of the characters he plays on screen show a glimpse of what he’d be like if he didn’t give a f and just spoke his mind, and he’s far more entertaining in that zone.

This is why rock as well has fallen off in popularity because dude was unfiltered as they come till early 00s after which he slowly became a human PR machine as well.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He said something negative about Punk when Punk was in AEW, but I don't think Punk ever gave a s**t about what Rollins thought, which is probably why he had no problem working with Temu Edge when he came back to WWE.

Unfortunately we have another bland and boring babyface run in-store once this clown comes back.
Click to expand...
If Rollins isn't overpushed and works with guys with good in ring IQ, he's pretty serviceable. It's just that he's never going to be the top guy. I don't think he's as toxic as Nose as majority of the locker room gets along with him pretty well.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Nah WrestleMania 34 main-event was atrocious. It was basically an extended squash match that just wouldn't end. From what I recall the fans in the arena didn't sound too happy either. All the other main-events atleast had something going on. This was just horrible and it accomplished absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed it. That overlong squash seemed like a good payback for the preceding atrocious Mania match with Taker. In hindsight, Roman (Joe Anoi not the big dog character) wasn't the one to blamed for that Taker match though. A lot of botches were on Taker and having Taker take that much punishment never sat well with overwhelming majority of the fans who watched that match. Brock taking him to the cleaners felt good that day.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Joe Hendry is a talented guy. I must admit, I haven't seen much of him in TNA and NXT, but after seeing a bit of his schtick I totally get why he has gained popularity so quickly. It's a cool gimmick, that's unique and weaponizes crowd participation. But it wouldn't work without the personality and charisma he brings to the table.
Click to expand...
He's charismatic. His gimmick has done well as a heel too. He used the knowledge he gained from his marketing and finance degree on his wrestling gimmick and it's worked very well. He still needs some work on his in ring work though. But he's a guy who'll make WWE a lot of money.
 
Suleiman said:
Saw it 1-2 weeks ago, first time I sat through an entire Rogan podcast.

Few ppl saying this is rogan’s best podcast ever, and I can see why.

Also regarding why he’s so robotic in general, he kinda answered that in this interview I’d like to think.

The part where he’s talking about having to apologize about the Taiwan thing to the Chinese.

Seems like after that incident he almost became traumatized lol and started becoming ultra careful with his words.

Which is a pity because some of the characters he plays on screen show a glimpse of what he’d be like if he didn’t give a f and just spoke his mind, and he’s far more entertaining in that zone.

This is why rock as well has fallen off in popularity because dude was unfiltered as they come till early 00s after which he slowly became a human PR machine as well.
Click to expand...
Hollywood does suck your soul in order to let an actor succeed I guess. Dwayne's lost pretty much of everything that made him so likeable in his wrestling career in order to make it in Hollywood.
 
Dwayne's the guy who messed his lines on purpose for a backstage promo with Hurricane in order to give Hurricane the freedom to say whatever he wanted to as he dragged their segment live on air. The guy also insisted to put Brock over clean in 2002 when the original decision was to have Brock win via interference. He's now a polar opposite narcisisst to what he used to be.
Suleiman said:
Saw it 1-2 weeks ago, first time I sat through an entire Rogan podcast.

Few ppl saying this is rogan’s best podcast ever, and I can see why.

Also regarding why he’s so robotic in general, he kinda answered that in this interview I’d like to think.

The part where he’s talking about having to apologize about the Taiwan thing to the Chinese.

Seems like after that incident he almost became traumatized lol and started becoming ultra careful with his words.

Which is a pity because some of the characters he plays on screen show a glimpse of what he’d be like if he didn’t give a f and just spoke his mind, and he’s far more entertaining in that zone.

This is why rock as well has fallen off in popularity because dude was unfiltered as they come till early 00s after which he slowly became a human PR machine as well.
Click to expand...
 
I want to start a discussion about the rivalry between The Rock and John Cena.

As we all know, Hollywood Rock was pure entertainment and delivered some absolutely insane promos. He was such an effective heel that the audience loved to hate him. However, when he returned in 2011, he wasn’t quite the same Rock. He was still good, but felt more like Dwayne Johnson than the classic Rock persona. The PG era also restricted him in terms of what he could and couldn’t say.

He then collided with John Cena, who was at his absolute prime at the time. Many people believe Cena dominated The Rock in almost every promo. Personally, I think that apart from the famous “wrist notes” promo—which Cena clearly won—The Rock came out on top in most of the others.

I’d like to hear your opinions - What do you think of that epic rivalry, and who do you believe actually won the promo wars?

 
Rajdeep said:
I want to start a discussion about the rivalry between The Rock and John Cena.

As we all know, Hollywood Rock was pure entertainment and delivered some absolutely insane promos. He was such an effective heel that the audience loved to hate him. However, when he returned in 2011, he wasn’t quite the same Rock. He was still good, but felt more like Dwayne Johnson than the classic Rock persona. The PG era also restricted him in terms of what he could and couldn’t say.

He then collided with John Cena, who was at his absolute prime at the time. Many people believe Cena dominated The Rock in almost every promo. Personally, I think that apart from the famous “wrist notes” promo—which Cena clearly won—The Rock came out on top in most of the others.

I’d like to hear your opinions - What do you think of that epic rivalry, and who do you believe actually won the promo wars?

Click to expand...

It was a stalemate. :inti

Anyway, John Cena has achieved much more than The Rock and Cena was better with promos.

As a matter of fact, John Cena is the greatest of all time for me (17-time World Champion; the highest).
 
sweep_shot said:
It was a stalemate. :inti

Anyway, John Cena has achieved much more than The Rock and Cena was better with promos.

As a matter of fact, John Cena is the greatest of all time for me (17-time World Champion; the highest).
Click to expand...
Did you actually follow Rock in attitude era?
 
Rajdeep said:
Did you actually follow Rock in attitude era?
Click to expand...

Yes. I watched Attitude Era live.
Did you follow John Cena over his 23-year career? :inti

Rock has 10 World titles. Cena has 17 World titles.

Also, Cena didn't ditch WWE like Rock did.

Cena achieved much more than The Rock.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Speaking of which, have you seen that Bret Hart v Terry Funk match? I was surprised by how bad and boring it was. Probably the worst Bret match I've seen, although in hindsight I'm not sure what I was expecting considering it happened in '97 when Funk was long past his prime.
Click to expand...

I’ve not actually seen that match, must really be quiet obscure! Was this around the time Terry Funk went into full on Ashura mode?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Great point. I suppose I never really thought of it that way. It's a shame it had to take Triple Roids blowing out his quad for it to happen, but I'm glad that it did.
Click to expand...

He ruined Jericho’s momentum at the top, he screwed Booker at his peak, he ruined RVD at his peak, he halted Kane’s top level credentials and lets not forget that even when Booker found a second wind with his insanely entertaining character, that you know who auspiciously returned from injury once again to bury his main event status:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2005685330700296206

Every time I feel so disgusted with H there’s always something new & fresh to remind me what a piece of crap he truly is, SS 2006 was a second death for Booker T & arguably worse then WM 19 because they completely buried his excellent character work he had done until then.
 
Rajdeep said:
I want to start a discussion about the rivalry between The Rock and John Cena.

As we all know, Hollywood Rock was pure entertainment and delivered some absolutely insane promos. He was such an effective heel that the audience loved to hate him. However, when he returned in 2011, he wasn’t quite the same Rock. He was still good, but felt more like Dwayne Johnson than the classic Rock persona. The PG era also restricted him in terms of what he could and couldn’t say.

He then collided with John Cena, who was at his absolute prime at the time. Many people believe Cena dominated The Rock in almost every promo. Personally, I think that apart from the famous “wrist notes” promo—which Cena clearly won—The Rock came out on top in most of the others.

I’d like to hear your opinions - What do you think of that epic rivalry, and who do you believe actually won the promo wars?

Click to expand...

I think when the Rock came back for the first time in years he was his normal charismatic self & everything leading up to WM 27 was great.

However, as good the build was for WM 28, I don’t know if it was a worked shoot or not, but the Rock’s scripted characterisation of a face from Hollywood didn’t quiet hit the mark, it wasn’t terrible but Cena just destroyed him on the mic.
 
Rajdeep said:
I want to start a discussion about the rivalry between The Rock and John Cena.

As we all know, Hollywood Rock was pure entertainment and delivered some absolutely insane promos. He was such an effective heel that the audience loved to hate him. However, when he returned in 2011, he wasn’t quite the same Rock. He was still good, but felt more like Dwayne Johnson than the classic Rock persona. The PG era also restricted him in terms of what he could and couldn’t say.

He then collided with John Cena, who was at his absolute prime at the time. Many people believe Cena dominated The Rock in almost every promo. Personally, I think that apart from the famous “wrist notes” promo—which Cena clearly won—The Rock came out on top in most of the others.

I’d like to hear your opinions - What do you think of that epic rivalry, and who do you believe actually won the promo wars?

Click to expand...
Unpopular opinion but I didn't think this rivalry was that epic. Rock was Rock but not really the version we saw in Attitude Era and till 2003. Cena, I already hated at that time. I was a Punk fan and wanted to see him in the main-event. They spent a year building this match from main-event of WrestleMania 27, where they had the The Miz go over Cena just to give Cena a reason, but the build for the was just the last few months before WrestleMania 28. The match itself was enjoyable and fairly good, but they shouldn't have returned for the second one at WrestleMania 29 because that one was not good. And having it be for the belt just felt forced i.e. we want Cena to get his win back and make it mean more by having the belt on the line. I don't really care much for this 2011-13 period of WWE. For the most part, it was a creative low-point. Besides CM Punk there wasn't really anything particularly interesting going on.
 
Suleiman said:
Saw it 1-2 weeks ago, first time I sat through an entire Rogan podcast.

Few ppl saying this is rogan’s best podcast ever, and I can see why.

Also regarding why he’s so robotic in general, he kinda answered that in this interview I’d like to think.

The part where he’s talking about having to apologize about the Taiwan thing to the Chinese.

Seems like after that incident he almost became traumatized lol and started becoming ultra careful with his words.

Which is a pity because some of the characters he plays on screen show a glimpse of what he’d be like if he didn’t give a f and just spoke his mind, and he’s far more entertaining in that zone.

This is why rock as well has fallen off in popularity because dude was unfiltered as they come till early 00s after which he slowly became a human PR machine as well.
Click to expand...
Don't really listen to his show either but will be giving this a listen. Sounds like an interesting interview.
 
shaz619 said:
I think when the Rock came back for the first time in years he was his normal charismatic self & everything leading up to WM 27 was great.

However, as good the build was for WM 28, I don’t know if it was a worked shoot or not, but the Rock’s scripted characterisation of a face from Hollywood didn’t quiet hit the mark, it wasn’t terrible but Cena just destroyed him on the mic.
Click to expand...
I think its mostly due to PG era Rock was somewhat restricted. Cena was master in PG promos with his straight talks and being realistic. I am not sure how he would have fared against Rock and Austin in attitude era where every kind of profanity was allowed. So its all about era.

Remember, Hogan was a legend back in the days. However, Rock was owning him in promos before their match in No Way Out 2003 and Hogan was clearly not able to adjust in attitude era trash talks. I think Cena would have struggled same way as Hogan. Just my opinion though.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Unpopular opinion but I didn't think this rivalry was that epic. Rock was Rock but not really the version we saw in Attitude Era and till 2003. Cena, I already hated at that time. I was a Punk fan and wanted to see him in the main-event. They spent a year building this match from main-event of WrestleMania 27, where they had the The Miz go over Cena just to give Cena a reason, but the build for the was just the last few months before WrestleMania 28. The match itself was enjoyable and fairly good, but they shouldn't have returned for the second one at WrestleMania 29 because that one was not good. And having it be for the belt just felt forced i.e. we want Cena to get his win back and make it mean more by having the belt on the line. I don't really care much for this 2011-13 period of WWE. For the most part, it was a creative low-point. Besides CM Punk there wasn't really anything particularly interesting going on.
Click to expand...
Me too. Infact entire arena hated him. Back then people used to blame him for boring PG product. :LOL:

Most fans wont remember now but there was a time Cena used to get booed everywhere including in his hometown. Only when he left around 2017 people started missing him.
 
Rajdeep said:
Me too. Infact entire arena hated him. Back then people used to blame him for boring PG product. :LOL:

Most fans wont remember now but there was a time Cena used to get booed everywhere including in his hometown. Only when he left around 2017 people started missing him.
Click to expand...
I started liking him when he dropped down to the mid-card after 2013 and had that run with the U.S. Championship. He had some great matches and feuds like the one with AJ Styles and elevated alot of guys. He added alot of new stuff to his move-set too since now he wasn't the top guy anymore and and didn't necessarily have to wrestle a super safe style.
 
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