The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Aman]

AJ is the new face the runs the place! I lost it when he put on Cena's armband and buried Ziggler )

 

[shaz619]

AJ is the new face the runs the place! I lost it when he put on Cena's armband and buried Ziggler )

It was an absolutely fantastic main-event, both men delivered and Ziggler has really turned it on over the last month or so. AJ Styles has had a stellar year.

 

[shaz619]

That is the PROMO of the YEAR for me and a massive SLAP in the face of all the Mizz haters. This guy is CRIMINALLY underrated I just can't emphasise that enough. For me he is a better A/R performer then Seth Rollins can ever dream off not that he's the bar because The Mizz is on another level.

 

[shaz619]

I enjoyed Smackdown, built well towards their Brand exclusive Backlash PPV. The new set is amazing! Finally we get some titles for the women and tag team divisions to which was great to see.

 

[shaz619]

Bret Hart has previously been critical of Seth Rollins as a worker, claiming that he was dangerous and unprofessional following injuries to Sting and John Cena. WrestleZone reached out to Hart, who provided the following comments on Finn Balor’s injury during his Summerslam match with Rollin:

"I take no great pleasure in saying “I told you so,” but if you’re a professional wrestler and you keep hurting opponents and or yourself, clearly you’re doing it wrong. I wrestled a very realistic and physical style and not once in 23 yrs did I ever hurt one opponent ever. Seth Rollins needs to improve his technique and become the safest wrestler in the business. I have great respect for Seth. I believe he’ll improve and hopefully stop hurting the talent before someone gets killed. Wrestlers have to trust one another. If a wrestler holds the life of another wrestler in his hands for the sake of his family, wife or children you plain and simply cannot drop it! I saw this coming, if anything WWE producers are negligent for not speaking up about it to him already, instead they’re probably gushing with joy, slapping him on the back telling him “great job!” Bill Goldberg was similar. When I think of Samoa Joe nearly killing Tyson Kidd, then see him continuing to use that deadly finish of his, I just shake my head. It’s not real, it’s only supposed to look real, wrestlers are not crash test dummies!"

Seth Rollins should be arrested.

 

[shaz619]

Bret Hart has previously been critical of Seth Rollins as a worker, claiming that he was dangerous and unprofessional following injuries to Sting and John Cena. WrestleZone reached out to Hart, who provided the following comments on Finn Balor’s injury during his Summerslam match with Rollin:

"I take no great pleasure in saying “I told you so,” but if you’re a professional wrestler and you keep hurting opponents and or yourself, clearly you’re doing it wrong. I wrestled a very realistic and physical style and not once in 23 yrs did I ever hurt one opponent ever. Seth Rollins needs to improve his technique and become the safest wrestler in the business. I have great respect for Seth. I believe he’ll improve and hopefully stop hurting the talent before someone gets killed. Wrestlers have to trust one another. If a wrestler holds the life of another wrestler in his hands for the sake of his family, wife or children you plain and simply cannot drop it! I saw this coming, if anything WWE producers are negligent for not speaking up about it to him already, instead they’re probably gushing with joy, slapping him on the back telling him “great job!” Bill Goldberg was similar. When I think of Samoa Joe nearly killing Tyson Kidd, then see him continuing to use that deadly finish of his, I just shake my head. It’s not real, it’s only supposed to look real, wrestlers are not crash test dummies!"

Seth Rollins should be arrested.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

honestly didnt think the Mizz had it in him. Cannot tell if this is a shoot or kayfabe

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

honestly didnt think the Mizz had it in him. Cannot tell if this is a shoot or kayfabe

It was a worked shoot.

Mizz is one of the best mic workers from the last 10 years who has consistently delivered in the role of a heel.

 

[Rana]

It was a worked shoot.

Mizz is one of the best mic workers from the last 10 years who has consistently delivered in the role of a heel.

Whatever it is its very good and could be the turning point of his career.

His stint with Sandow was very entertaining. Maryse also makes him a great character

 

[shaz619]

More on the Lesnar/Orton Match

The WON reports that the end of the match did go down as planned for the most part. The idea was to create a finish that made people wonder where reality ended, and made it look like Brock Lesnar went off script.

Apparently Randy Orton was preparing for a typical main event. But when he arrived at the arena he was told what the plan was for the match, and that the plan wasn’t for both stars to go back and forth, but to make Lesnar look even stronger.

 

[Red Devil]

More on the Lesnar/Orton Match

This is probably why he was sandbagging all those suplexes lol.

 

[shaz619]

This is probably why he was sandbagging all those suplexes lol.

Vinny Mac low balled The Viper

Watching it live I knew it straight away watching live the only thing that made it deceiving was Ortons size. He tends to do that when Orton is grumpy, that's why Broid botched the blade job/was-careless; I've read some stupid reports which say that Broid was supposed to strategically make Orton bleed with his elbows without doing too much damage ) I think Eugene was the lead writer for that website

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] look at our PP statistics just noticed they are almost identical

 

[Hasan123]

The fatel 4 way next week should be interesting wouldn't be suprised if Kevin Owens won tbh.


Hopefully AJ beats Ambrose. Aj has plenty of momentum atm wwe should cash in on it and give him a lengthy regin. Ambrose tittle reign hasn't been that successful tbh. Personally always thought dean was slightly ovverated. His promos are always about joking around and wwe calls him a lunatic . He is champion now so he shouldn't be always joking. His moveset is quite limited as well tbh. Aj has the personality and the variety in his moveset to be a big star in WWE. Was never in question tbh

 

[shaz619]

The fatel 4 way next week should be interesting wouldn't be suprised if Kevin Owens won tbh.


Hopefully AJ beats Ambrose. Aj has plenty of momentum atm wwe should cash in on it and give him a lengthy regin. Ambrose tittle reign hasn't been that successful tbh. Personally always thought dean was slightly ovverated. His promos are always about joking around and wwe calls him a lunatic . He is champion now so he shouldn't be always joking. His moveset is quite limited as well tbh. Aj has the personality and the variety in his moveset to be a big star in WWE. Was never in question tbh

Is it a fatal 4 way or singles matches to determine the final bout? KO would be the ideal choice imo but he is feuding with Enzo/Cass so I don't know. The favourites are Seth Borelinss and Roman Reigns though

Haven't you even followed his feud with Ziggler? His promo's have been fantastic what the hell you been watching )

 

[Hasan123]

Is it a fatal 4 way or singles matches to determine the final bout? KO would be the ideal choice imo but he is feuding with Enzo/Cass so I don't know. The favourites are Seth Borelinss and Roman Reigns though

Haven't you even followed his feud with Ziggler? His promo's have been fantastic what the hell you been watching )

Its a fatel 4 way for the tittle bro. I am fan of Seth Rollins but him consistently being involved in the title picture is becoming a little boring. Wouldn't mind KO winning the tittle.


I have enjoyed his promos during his feud vs Ziggler but the problem is wwe have given him the name lunatic and until recently he is joking around and not taking his fights seriously. Against Ziggler it changed. Need the same intensity vs AJ. But hope AJ comes out on top.

 

[shaz619]

The fatel 4 way next week should be interesting wouldn't be suprised if Kevin Owens won tbh.


Hopefully AJ beats Ambrose. Aj has plenty of momentum atm wwe should cash in on it and give him a lengthy regin. Ambrose tittle reign hasn't been that successful tbh. Personally always thought dean was slightly ovverated. His promos are always about joking around and wwe calls him a lunatic . He is champion now so he shouldn't be always joking. His moveset is quite limited as well tbh. Aj has the personality and the variety in his moveset to be a big star in WWE. Was never in question tbh

Also there is footage online of a really sick and twisted Dean Ambrose cutting promo's in CZW, when the sheild broke up most expected him to turn heel and become world champion. Being a heel comes a lot more naturally to him but the lunatic baby face gimmick has also been very succesful and that's evident by the pop he gets from the audience, I never thought I could imagine him being a face but he has made it work. The other thing is he is a lunatic but in this day and age his gimmick is limited, if this was the RA era he could go all mick foley on his opponents but he can't. The Reigns has been very decent so far and it would just be stupid if WWE had him in the mic-card again because he's a main-event calibre superstar who has consistently delivered, one thing I agree with you is that WWE need to cutt out all the goofyness when it comes to him because then guys like you would take him more seriously but Ambrose the wrestler is a very talented A/R performer.

AJ without a doubt is not only the best wrestler in the WWE but the best on the planet, he has the momentum and if they have him go over at backlash it wouldn't be such a bad idea at all. Personally I'd like to see him get his moment at Wrestlemania but not sure if WWE will go that way

 

[shaz619]

Its a fatel 4 way for the tittle bro. I am fan of Seth Rollins but him consistently being involved in the title picture is becoming a little boring. Wouldn't mind KO winning the tittle.


I have enjoyed his promos during his feud vs Ziggler but the problem is wwe have given him the name lunatic and until recently he is joking around and not taking his fights seriously. Against Ziggler it changed. Need the same intensity vs AJ. But hope AJ comes out on top.

He needs to be arrested and sent to jail for 5 years in my honest opinion, he is incredibly overrated and reckless to the point where he puts the lives of other wrestlers at risk. Very one dimensional on the mic to and I find his heel persona very annoying to the point where I change the channel. I hate Seth Rollins and also because he is often compared to the likes of Bret, HBK etc when he is not anywhere near their level, the guy just keeps injuring people I liked him in the Sheild but what I think WWE need to do with him is a) Punish him severely for trying to kill wrestlers in the ring b) Turn him baby face after they have finished punishing him

 

[Red Devil]

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] look at our PP statistics just noticed they are almost identical

Hahaha two old timers plodding along. We're the Misbah and YK of PakPassion.

 

[Hasan123]

Also there is footage online of a really sick and twisted Dean Ambrose cutting promo's in CZW, when the sheild broke up most expected him to turn heel and become world champion. Being a heel comes a lot more naturally to him but the lunatic baby face gimmick has also been very succesful and that's evident by the pop he gets from the audience, I never thought I could imagine him being a face but he has made it work. The other thing is he is a lunatic but in this day and age his gimmick is limited, if this was the RA era he could go all mick foley on his opponents but he can't. The Reigns has been very decent so far and it would just be stupid if WWE had him in the mic-card again because he's a main-event calibre superstar who has consistently delivered, one thing I agree with you is that WWE need to cutt out all the goofyness when it comes to him because then guys like you would take him more seriously but Ambrose the wrestler is a very talented A/R performer.

AJ without a doubt is not only the best wrestler in the WWE but the best on the planet, he has the momentum and if they have him go over at backlash it wouldn't be such a bad idea at all. Personally I'd like to see him get his moment at Wrestlemania but not sure if WWE will go that way

Wwe should let dean have more control over his promo and allow him to be more aggressive on the mic. Maybe a heel turn could help him but he's done well as a face. Personally I'm not in love with him like others. I think that is more do with what he did in his indie days. Wwe fans have a soft spot for indie darlings. Someone like reigns has to work twice as hard to get the same appreciation as he came through a unfamiliar way. Reigns is a decent worker but shouldn't be shoved down our throats and also should turn heel. Than eventually turn face it will do wonders for him, many top stars before have done that and it worked wonders for them.


Aj is one of the best on the planet. Wwe needs to take advantage of his momentum. A face turn should come soon and he should be promoted like no tommorow. No point of waiting till Wrestlemania he's white hot now so take advantage of it.

 

[shaz619]

Hahaha two old timers plodding along. We're the Misbah and YK of PakPassion.

You're definitely more of a Misbah )

 

[Hasan123]

He needs to be arrested and sent to jail for 5 years in my honest opinion, he is incredibly overrated and reckless to the point where he puts the lives of other wrestlers at risk. Very one dimensional on the mic to and I find his heel persona very annoying to the point where I change the channel. I hate Seth Rollins and also because he is often compared to the likes of Bret, HBK etc when he is not anywhere near their level, the guy just keeps injuring people I liked him in the Sheild but what I think WWE need to do with him is a) Punish him severely for trying to kill wrestlers in the ring b) Turn him baby face after they have finished punishing him

I don't know what is going on when he is in the ring but yes atm he is very unsafe. Wwe should look at this seriously he could injure someone very seriously.

As a heel he is very easy to hate but wwe have done the right thing with him bu making hated instead of making him face straight away. He will be a top baby face. Wwe is saving him to face triple h and win that as his 1st baby face win.

 

[shaz619]

Wwe should let dean have more control over his promo and allow him to be more aggressive on the mic. Maybe a heel turn could help him but he's done well as a face. Personally I'm not in love with him like others. I think that is more do with what he did in his indie days. Wwe fans have a soft spot for indie darlings. Someone like reigns has to work twice as hard to get the same appreciation as he came through a unfamiliar way. Reigns is a decent worker but shouldn't be shoved down our throats and also should turn heel. Than eventually turn face it will do wonders for him, many top stars before have done that and it worked wonders for them.


Aj is one of the best on the planet. Wwe needs to take advantage of his momentum. A face turn should come soon and he should be promoted like no tommorow. No point of waiting till Wrestlemania he's white hot now so take advantage of it.

He's a baby face whom they want to portray as a goofy lunatic typical WWE but to ambroses credit he has managed to get over given his tremendous ability and we've seen some great intensity from him, I do agree they should cut out the goofyness. With Smarks which don't make up for a big enough % at house shows and weekly events indie background comes into it but the casuals love Ambrose, top merch seller and was out drawing Reigns while he was the champ on shows he headlined. Reigns I think has been terrific as of late, significantly improved in the ring and his persona is somewhat between a heel and face at the moment, this is coming from an indie/Japan fan btw! but no doubt a pure heel turn would do wonders for his character plus e has had success with such a character in NXT but with the WWE they don't want to do that is because they have invested so much in him as a fan favourite

It's an interesting argument, I remember people wanting Bryan to win the title when he was red hot but they bought him down and when they pulled the trigger at mania it was such a special moment and the pay off was worth it. The problem these days is that fans are not as patient so WWE don't always invest in long term storylines in the past but they did it with Bryan and Rollins to an extent, plus Ambrose is relatively new as champ so deserves an opportunity to prove his credentials to Vinny Mac. Am a huge Mark for AJ Styles have followed him since a little kid, he got momentum now but I just feel like his first title win can be more special if done right

 

[shaz619]

I don't know what is going on when he is in the ring but yes atm he is very unsafe. Wwe should look at this seriously he could injure someone very seriously.

As a heel he is very easy to hate but wwe have done the right thing with him bu making hated instead of making him face straight away. He will be a top baby face. Wwe is saving him to face triple h and win that as his 1st baby face win.

I just find him annoying bro, his promos are very repetitive and drag on too long; he doesn't get the good kind of heat from me but the shazzy bear please watch eastenders instead kind of heat, was okay at first but like you need to be very talented to remain over with the same persona for over a year and he isnt that versatile from the perspective of character work. Being a baby face will come a lot more natural to him and he needs that turn desperately, average mic skills, decent in the ring but even more reckless then Goldberg was.

Yeah that has been in the works for a while could happen in the lead up to mania

 

[Hasan123]

He's a baby face whom they want to portray as a goofy lunatic typical WWE but to ambroses credit he has managed to get over given his tremendous ability and we've seen some great intensity from him, I do agree they should cut out the goofyness. With Smarks which don't make up for a big enough % at house shows and weekly events indie background comes into it but the casuals love Ambrose, top merch seller and was out drawing Reigns while he was the champ on shows he headlined. Reigns I think has been terrific as of late, significantly improved in the ring and his persona is somewhat between a heel and face at the moment, this is coming from an indie/Japan fan btw! but no doubt a pure heel turn would do wonders for his character plus e has had success with such a character in NXT but with the WWE they don't want to do that is because they have invested so much in him as a fan favourite

It's an interesting argument, I remember people wanting Bryan to win the title when he was red hot but they bought him down and when they pulled the trigger at mania it was such a special moment and the pay off was worth it. The problem these days is that fans are not as patient so WWE don't always invest in long term storylines in the past but they did it with Bryan and Rollins to an extent, plus Ambrose is relatively new as champ so deserves an opportunity to prove his credentials to Vinny Mac. Am a huge Mark for AJ Styles have followed him since a little kid, he got momentum now but I just feel like his first title win can be more special if done right

It will be interesting to see who is potrayed as a heel in this aj vs dean feud. It will be aj but maybe wwe might want to freshen dean up. The interest from the crowd when Ziggler vs dean was on at summerslam was non existent. Also aj is receiving huge pops anyway face vs face matches aren't always easy to pull off.

Vince is big on aj and aj is a much more proven performer than dean is. There is no risk in aj becoming champion unless WWE books him poorly. Wwe fans are impatient true but they know how poor wwes booking can be that's why.

Aj winning at backlash may not be as special compared to other paperviews but it's what's needed. Dean will be back one day but aj,seth,finn balor will be ahead of him IMO

 

[Hasan123]

I just find him annoying bro, his promos are very repetitive and drag on too long; he doesn't get the good kind of heat from me but the shazzy bear please watch eastenders instead kind of heat, was okay at first but like you need to be very talented to remain over with the same persona for over a year and he isnt that versatile from the perspective of character work. Being a baby face will come a lot more natural to him and he needs that turn desperately, average mic skills, decent in the ring but even more reckless then Goldberg was.

Yeah that has been in the works for a while could happen in the lead up to mania

Wwe make him into a coward too much. They should let him fight his own battles a bit more and stop running behind the authority as well. Also it's not easy to get behind a high flying heel. Prefer my high flyers are babyfaces .

Think it could happen next year at Wrestlemania.

 

[shaz619]

It will be interesting to see who is potrayed as a heel in this aj vs dean feud. It will be aj but maybe wwe might want to freshen dean up. The interest from the crowd when Ziggler vs dean was on at summerslam was non existent. Also aj is receiving huge pops anyway face vs face matches aren't always easy to pull off.

Vince is big on aj and aj is a much more proven performer than dean is. There is no risk in aj becoming champion unless WWE books him poorly. Wwe fans are impatient true but they know how poor wwes booking can be that's why.

Aj winning at backlash may not be as special compared to other paperviews but it's what's needed. Dean will be back one day but aj,seth,finn balor will be ahead of him IMO

Most likely AJ will remain a heel as his character work has been terrific so I doubt they will change that plus the other thing they look at is the ratio between top faces and heels before turning someone. SummerSlam was 6 hours long and that was expected, Ziggler/Ambrose found themselves in an odd position on the card to; that's why I didn't criticise that match because it is unfair on both of them who are capable of a better match but given how the build was I wanted more drama, had they been in the spot Balor/Seth got the crowd would have been into both a lot more and the match would have been better. Seth/Balor failed to deliver, just reiterates my point with regards to how overrated Seth is when to 40 years olds stole the show at SummerSlam

It's not a bad idea at all but if I was in charge of creative I'd make a big deal out of an AJ Styles title win then pull the trigger on a B PPV personally. Also it would be suicide from creative if Dean is not kept around the main-event picture, it's his first career breakthrough so it would defeat the purpose of putting the belt on him in the first place if he were to lose it so soon, after all the burials they are finally doing something right with Ambrose so as much I'd personally love to see AJ win the title I think it would be a bad move long term and Ambrose stock would be severely damaged.

 

[shaz619]

Wwe make him into a coward too much. They should let him fight his own battles a bit more and stop running behind the authority as well. Also it's not easy to get behind a high flying heel. Prefer my high flyers are babyfaces .

Think it could happen next year at Wrestlemania.

There's a long post of mine in this thread somewhere discussing that when he was champion, Seth relied overly on the authority and also has the worst W/L ratio for a WWE champion. But that was in the past and they have rectified that but given his limitations he needs to turn face. That's a good point but Vince believes that in this day and age faces/heels don't exist it might be due to smarks but I think would like to think that dynamic does exist, it's the bread and butter of the industry

 

[Hasan123]

Most likely AJ will remain a heel as his character work has been terrific so I doubt they will change that plus the other thing they look at is the ratio between top faces and heels before turning someone. SummerSlam was 6 hours long and that was expected, Ziggler/Ambrose found themselves in an odd position on the card to; that's why I didn't criticise that match because it is unfair on both of them who are capable of a better match but given how the build was I wanted more drama, had they been in the spot Balor/Seth got the crowd would have been into both a lot more and the match would have been better. Seth/Balor failed to deliver, just reiterates my point with regards to how overrated Seth is when to 40 years olds stole the show at SummerSlam

It's not a bad idea at all but if I was in charge of creative I'd make a big deal out of an AJ Styles title win then pull the trigger on a B PPV personally. Also it would be suicide from creative if Dean is not kept around the main-event picture, it's his first career breakthrough so it would defeat the purpose of putting the belt on him in the first place if he were to lose it so soon, after all the burials they are finally doing something right with Ambrose so as much I'd personally love to see AJ win the title I think it would be a bad move long term and Ambrose stock would be severely damaged.

AJ has done well as a heel. It was a good idea to make him heel first before having him as a baby face. Seth vs finn was a good match bro. The tittle belt is ugly btw.

Looool wwe don't seem to have much faith in dean so a defeat could damage him a lot. But ajs momentum can't be ruined. Hopefully we get more than one match. Don't rule out cena getting involved at a later date )

 

[shaz619]

AJ has done well as a heel. It was a good idea to make him heel first before having him as a baby face. Seth vs finn was a good match bro. The tittle belt is ugly btw.

Looool wwe don't seem to have much faith in dean so a defeat could damage him a lot. But ajs momentum can't be ruined. Hopefully we get more than one match. Don't rule out cena getting involved at a later date )

It was a decent match but they were expected to steal the show and I still think it could have been a lot better but for whatever reason was missing something, Seth injuring Balor didn't help who popped his shoulder back in and continued to finish the match.

It's weird because Ambrose can't lose but at the same time AJ Styles can't lose too much steam but I think WWE will have Styles lose to Ambrose to put his title reign over which isn't an awful idea but as a Styles mark I don't want that to happen. I'd rather have Styles break Punks record as longest modern day WWE champ

Cena has left now for some film duties. I have tremendous respect for him, as a top guy his ego is no where near as big as the likes of Hogan, Austin etc never has an issue doing the job and putting other guys over and consistently delivers in the ring, I've had issues with his gimmick but he always manages to remain over through his incredible mic skills, but I respect him. At the end of his match with Styles, Cena was cheered in New York of all places! that's smark city, they all stood up to pay respect to him, respect he so richly deserves. Cena is the Misbah ul Haq of the WWE

 

[Hasan123]

It was a decent match but they were expected to steal the show and I still think it could have been a lot better but for whatever reason was missing something, Seth injuring Balor didn't help who popped his shoulder back in and continued to finish the match.

It's weird because Ambrose can't lose but at the same time AJ Styles can't lose too much steam but I think WWE will have Styles lose to Ambrose to put his title reign over which isn't an awful idea but as a Styles mark I don't want that to happen. I'd rather have Styles break Punks record as longest modern day WWE champ

Cena has left now for some film duties. I have tremendous respect for him, as a top guy his ego is no where near as big as the likes of Hogan, Austin etc never has an issue doing the job and putting other guys over and consistently delivers in the ring, I've had issues with his gimmick but he always manages to remain over through his incredible mic skills, but I respect him. At the end of his match with Styles, Cena was cheered in New York of all places! that's smark city, they all stood up to pay respect to him, respect he so richly deserves. Cena is the Misbah ul Haq of the WWE

For a 1st time match it was a good match. The more they wrestle each other the better the matches will get.

It's a lose lose situation tbh. Wwe will want someone to break cm punks record seth would have if he didn't get injured.

Yes cena character is a joke at times but cant question his hard work and dedication. Didn't know he won't for film duties was wondering where he was Smackdown . Cena is a wwe great no doubt wwe can't hold off him winning his 16th regin forever. Wouldn't be suprised if cena won it off aj sometime in the future

 

[shaz619]

For a 1st time match it was a good match. The more they wrestle each other the better the matches will get.

It's a lose lose situation tbh. Wwe will want someone to break cm punks record seth would have if he didn't get injured.

Yes cena character is a joke at times but cant question his hard work and dedication. Didn't know he won't for film duties was wondering where he was Smackdown . Cena is a wwe great no doubt wwe can't hold off him winning his 16th regin forever. Wouldn't be suprised if cena won it off aj sometime in the future

Shawn vs Kurt Mania 21

Bret v Shawn Mania 12

Hogan v Rock Mania X8

Bret v Davey Boy SummerSlam 92

Bryan v Cena SummerSlam 2013

Lesnar v CM Punk SummerSlam 2013

All these matches were firsts to Balor I can understand first PPV match and had moved up recently but this alleged modern HBK Seth Rollins failed spectacularly, Shawn carried Flair to a 5 star classic at mania 24; Rollins couldn't even get a 4 star match out of Balor whom he also injured during the match. Screw Seth, the Shahid Afridi of the WWE BAN HIM! BAN HIM! I wish the Big Bossman was alive to teach him a lesson

Wow I would stop watching wrestling if Seth Broke it, wrestling would die for me that day ) astagirullah don't say that again please

Could happen, I doubt their feud has ended and am glad! they have amazing chemistry! plus Cena left his manhood in the ring after losing to AJ, that will come into storyline aspects when the two fight again. Ric Flair v Cena for the world title match book it! lol Flair will bring a gun with him to the match )

 

[Hasan123]

Shawn vs Kurt Mania 21

Bret v Shawn Mania 12

Hogan v Rock Mania X8

Bret v Davey Boy SummerSlam 92

Bryan v Cena SummerSlam 2013

Lesnar v CM Punk SummerSlam 2013

All these matches were firsts to Balor I can understand first PPV match and had moved up recently but this alleged modern HBK Seth Rollins failed spectacularly, Shawn carried Flair to a 5 star classic at mania 24; Rollins couldn't even get a 4 star match out of Balor whom he also injured during the match. Screw Seth, the Shahid Afridi of the WWE BAN HIM! BAN HIM! I wish the Big Bossman was alive to teach him a lesson

Wow I would stop watching wrestling if Seth Broke it, wrestling would die for me that day ) astagirullah don't say that again please

Could happen, I doubt their feud has ended and am glad! they have amazing chemistry! plus Cena left his manhood in the ring after losing to AJ, that will come into storyline aspects when the two fight again. Ric Flair v Cena for the world title match book it! lol Flair will bring a gun with him to the match )

Its unfair to compare seth with bret and Shawn they are 2 of the best ever. I wouldn't compare seth with them even though I am one of his biggest fans. Calling him the Shahid Afridi of cricket is unfair ).

I genuinely believe he would have broke punks record if he didn't get injured. Wwe always want stars who there on good terms with to have the records and not the stars who they have bad relations with to hold records.

Yes they have good chemistry glad they had 3 matches. Every match was an improvement tbh. Hahaha flair will turn up to the match drunk.

 

[shaz619]

Its unfair to compare seth with bret and Shawn they are 2 of the best ever. I wouldn't compare seth with them even though I am one of his biggest fans. Calling him the Shahid Afridi of cricket is unfair ).

I genuinely believe he would have broke punks record if he didn't get injured. Wwe always want stars who there on good terms with to have the records and not the stars who they have bad relations with to hold records.

Yes they have good chemistry glad they had 3 matches. Every match was an improvement tbh. Hahaha flair will turn up to the match drunk.

Smarks tend to compare him with those guys, you are one of the sane ones though Tbh I think Seth is a decent world class performer who now has a reckless streak which needs to be addressed, find him average on the mic but still a decent A/R performer but I've become hostile towards him for a very good reason

Did you know When Seth was starting out, AJ had a match with him and after the match AJ bought Seth some roti and gave him encouragement. Seth idolised AJ Styles and modelled his in-ring style over him, on house shows he was fangirling over having a match with him and teaming up with AJ, in 24/7 documentary Seth professed his love for Styles, it was a bit creepy but what am getting at is Seth is an inferior version to Styles almost a wannabe, not bad at all but Styles is on another level his talent is ATG quality he needs to consistently delivery for a few more years in the WWE to cement his legacy as a great even though in my eyes and that of others he is already is.

True, Seth probably would have broken it because WWE really are petty about stuff like that even more then the PCB!

They only had two singles matches, one of them was a mixed tag.

Who do you want as the Universal Champion?

And speaking of the belt many dislike it I think what WWE were trying to do is copy the UFC where all their titles are the same so that they are on equal footing but it also comes across as lazy when it comes to the design. I personally never liked the big WWE logo on the belt design in the first place. But am not too angry about it, the IC/US titles are the most unique belts on the roster now

 

[Hasan123]

Smarks tend to compare him with those guys, you are one of the sane ones though Tbh I think Seth is a decent world class performer who now has a reckless streak which needs to be addressed, find him average on the mic but still a decent A/R performer but I've become hostile towards him for a very good reason

Did you know When Seth was starting out, AJ had a match with him and after the match AJ bought Seth some roti and gave him encouragement. Seth idolised AJ Styles and modelled his in-ring style over him, on house shows he was fangirling over having a match with him and teaming up with AJ, in 24/7 documentary Seth professed his love for Styles, it was a bit creepy but what am getting at is Seth is an inferior version to Styles almost a wannabe, not bad at all but Styles is on another level his talent is ATG quality he needs to consistently delivery for a few more years in the WWE to cement his legacy as a great even though in my eyes and that of others he is already is.

True, Seth probably would have broken it because WWE really are petty about stuff like that even more then the PCB!

They only had two singles matches, one of them was a mixed tag.

Who do you want as the Universal Champion?

And speaking of the belt many dislike it I think what WWE were trying to do is copy the UFC where all their titles are the same so that they are on equal footing but it also comes across as lazy when it comes to the design. I personally never liked the big WWE logo on the belt design in the first place. But am not too angry about it, the IC/US titles are the most unique belts on the roster now

Seth still has a long way to go to be up there with bret and shawn. Don't think he will reach that level anyway. Will finish his career in the 2nd bracket of greats.

Yes I have heard about Seth and Aj having a match. One thing I like about Seth is off screen he seems to be humble and respectful to his pears and legends of wrestling. Bret critizced Seth, Seth was asked about it on Chris jerichos podcast and he didn't take a shot back at bret.

His style is similar to ajs, hope they have a match in the future.

For universal champion I hope Owens or Seth wins.

The belts are pathetic. IC and US champion are fine but the new ones are poor and just seems like WWE can't be bothered to design new ones. People were really upset at the new universal champion

 

[leatherface58]

It was rumored that Balor and Owens were going to feud for the WWE Universal title until Rollins the reckless peed all over the plans. It was building to a Balor vs Owens vs Y2J.

I don't understand this obsession with the Shield guys. Ambrose has managed to steer clear of the Shield memories. But Rollins is still called the Architect and Reigns is.. well Reigns. The same guys are being pushed on Raw all the time.

Look at Smackdown. Everyone feels important. AJ, Dolph, Ambrose, Bray, Orton. The tag division is promising with AA, Usos(who mostly will turn heel), Hype Bros and Breezango. ALL of the women are given something to do. Look at Raw. I don't even know or care which women are there except Sasha, Charlotte, Bayley and Dana Brooke (only because she is with Charlotte).

It's Ruthless aggression era all over again. Raw is pushing the same guy(s) and Smackdown is showing how it's done. I won't be surprised if Vince raids Smackdown again just to prove that the flagship is better.

 

[shaz619]

It was rumored that Balor and Owens were going to feud for the WWE Universal title until Rollins the reckless peed all over the plans. It was building to a Balor vs Owens vs Y2J.

I don't understand this obsession with the Shield guys. Ambrose has managed to steer clear of the Shield memories. But Rollins is still called the Architect and Reigns is.. well Reigns. The same guys are being pushed on Raw all the time.

Look at Smackdown. Everyone feels important. AJ, Dolph, Ambrose, Bray, Orton. The tag division is promising with AA, Usos(who mostly will turn heel), Hype Bros and Breezango. ALL of the women are given something to do. Look at Raw. I don't even know or care which women are there except Sasha, Charlotte, Bayley and Dana Brooke (only because she is with Charlotte).

It's Ruthless aggression era all over again. Raw is pushing the same guy(s) and Smackdown is showing how it's done. I won't be surprised if Vince raids Smackdown again just to prove that the flagship is better.

Imagine if Y2J won the title

I'd say RAW has the better variety when it comes to talent and more quality to but that is expected because it's a 3 hour show.

Besides Ambrose, Wyatt and Styles in the singles division the talent is mostly veteran. However, SD does have a better creative writer and being only 2 hours helps the quality of their product immensely as it eliminates all the filler content. Their structure certainly is alot more coherent and they seem to be moving in the right direction.

RAW has the stronger womens division then SD, they got Shasha, Charlotte, Bayley, Nia Jax and a few other jobbers but all those are main event calibre. SD got veteran in Natalya, then their only actual main event talent in Becky, Carmella has potential. Alexa Bliss will get booked like garbage sadly. I hope Asuka comes to SD because they need her more as RAW division is alot stronger

Smackdown was a consistently good show but I enjoyed RAW to back then, I wouldn't say they pushed same old because that was just HHH but he was overly dominant. RAW isn't pushing same old, they have sent SD the same old ADR, Cena, Orton etc but those guys will hopefully enhance the new guys; RAW hav to make sure they dont put the belt on Seth but he is the favourite

 

[leatherface58]

Imagine if Y2J won the title

I'd say RAW has the better variety when it comes to talent and more quality to but that is expected because it's a 3 hour show.

Besides Ambrose, Wyatt and Styles in the singles division the talent is mostly veteran. However, SD does have a better creative writer and being only 2 hours helps the quality of their product immensely as it eliminates all the filler content. Their structure certainly is alot more coherent and they seem to be moving in the right direction.

RAW has the stronger womens division then SD, they got Shasha, Charlotte, Bayley, Nia Jax and a few other jobbers but all those are main event calibre. SD got veteran in Natalya, then their only actual main event talent in Becky, Carmella has potential. Alexa Bliss will get booked like garbage sadly. I hope Asuka comes to SD because they need her more as RAW division is alot stronger

Smackdown was a consistently good show but I enjoyed RAW to back then, I wouldn't say they pushed same old because that was just HHH but he was overly dominant. RAW isn't pushing same old, they have sent SD the same old ADR, Cena, Orton etc but those guys will hopefully enhance the new guys; RAW hav to make sure they dont put the belt on Seth but he is the favourite

I would love a brief run of KO and Y2J as tag champions. One of the most entertaining tag teams in recent history. Y2J is Heel God. He keeps reinventing himself every time. Lionheart Jericho, Ayatollah of Rock 'n Rolla, Ultra-serious Jericho, Stupid idiot Jericho. So many gimmicks, so much success. If he had got 50 % of the push HHH got in 2002, he would have made the company a lot of money.

KO is a future world champion. Anyone with the garbage booking he has got would have faded away yet much like Jericho, he keeps retooling his character subtly. KO is getting massive babyface pops which cannot be ignored. At the same time, he knows how to be evil so it's not like he is incapable of getting the audience to hate him.

Big Cass is too green to be champion and he is more Test than Kevin Nash. It's Rollins/Reigns. The crowd will flip out if it is Reigns so it is unlikely. Rollins/KO it is. I thought New Day as heel brought out the best in Rollins as he showed personality beyond whiny heel champion.

Raw might have better women wrestlers but SD has one big ace in the hole. EVA MARIE AND HER ANNOUNCER! Bah Gawd the greatest thing since the mooing cow in JBL's entrance theme!

SD's writers are smart. Proof is how they turned Carmella heel when she was coming out to crickets. Learn Vince Learn! Don't be such a stubborn punk regarding Reigns. Reigns as a wrestler is excellent with lot of 4+ star matches and plus, he has never hurt anyone despite his brutal moves. But as a character, I have no idea what his motivations are. What drives him.

I think Nikki will be the first SD women's champion and drop the title to Alexa who has amazing potential. Becky will take the title off Alexa since Becky feuding with face Nikki makes no sense. Meanwhile, massive respect for Nikki for coming back from career threatening injury. Shows she has passion for the business and is not just a pretty face.

Poor Sasha. She should stop taking ridiculous bumps. I hope they don't make Bayley vs Charlotte as the Cena vs Orton of the New Era.

 

[shaz619]

I would love a brief run of KO and Y2J as tag champions. One of the most entertaining tag teams in recent history. Y2J is Heel God. He keeps reinventing himself every time. Lionheart Jericho, Ayatollah of Rock 'n Rolla, Ultra-serious Jericho, Stupid idiot Jericho. So many gimmicks, so much success. If he had got 50 % of the push HHH got in 2002, he would have made the company a lot of money.

KO is a future world champion. Anyone with the garbage booking he has got would have faded away yet much like Jericho, he keeps retooling his character subtly. KO is getting massive babyface pops which cannot be ignored. At the same time, he knows how to be evil so it's not like he is incapable of getting the audience to hate him.

Big Cass is too green to be champion and he is more Test than Kevin Nash. It's Rollins/Reigns. The crowd will flip out if it is Reigns so it is unlikely. Rollins/KO it is. I thought New Day as heel brought out the best in Rollins as he showed personality beyond whiny heel champion.

Raw might have better women wrestlers but SD has one big ace in the hole. EVA MARIE AND HER ANNOUNCER! Bah Gawd the greatest thing since the mooing cow in JBL's entrance theme!

SD's writers are smart. Proof is how they turned Carmella heel when she was coming out to crickets. Learn Vince Learn! Don't be such a stubborn punk regarding Reigns. Reigns as a wrestler is excellent with lot of 4+ star matches and plus, he has never hurt anyone despite his brutal moves. But as a character, I have no idea what his motivations are. What drives him.

I think Nikki will be the first SD women's champion and drop the title to Alexa who has amazing potential. Becky will take the title off Alexa since Becky feuding with face Nikki makes no sense. Meanwhile, massive respect for Nikki for coming back from career threatening injury. Shows she has passion for the business and is not just a pretty face.

Poor Sasha. She should stop taking ridiculous bumps. I hope they don't make Bayley vs Charlotte as the Cena vs Orton of the New Era.

I wouldn't mind that either, both are comedy gold there's an article am going to post here regarding what you've just said about Jericho, he is CRIMINALLY underrated; when you give Jericho a bit of leeway he has that ability to reinvent himself irrespective of the era, no offence to Kane or Big Show but he has succeeded where they tend to fail, Jericho is supposed to be nothing more then talent enhancement but the fact that he isn't that too past his prime just goes to show what an ATG talent he was and still is.

Jericho did get lost in the shuffle during the RA era leathers but we couldn't have hoped for a better career in the circumstances, first undisputed champ, stellar rivalries with HHH, Rock etc, main-evented Wrestlemania, helped cement SD as a rival show, 9 time IC champ man I could go on and then when he returned in 2008 he had one of the greatest rivalries of all time against Shawn Michaels in 2008 and even better then the one they had around 2003, enjoyed another high calibre run as world champion enroute to a bout against Edge at Wrestlemania, who'd have thought that in 2010 Y2J would be in a world title bout at mania? the man is an absolute genius and it's an INSULT to even compare Seth to someone like Y2J let alone HBK.

Big Cass needs to get more experience, but he has the potential to be a decent A/R performer for a man his size. I'd like to think KO has a chance but when you look at how he has been booked am not sure they will go with him.

The other thing to point out is Ryan Ward head SD writer, has experience booking the likes of Carmella and the other NXT talent on SD and he knows how to get the best out of them. I must say though that it was a terrific turn for her and it's the first time I've seen her play that role, I love the intensity. Dude you should watch Alexa Bliss's stuff in NXT she reminds me soo much of Sensational Sherri!!! am a bit disappointing that she didn't move up with Blake and Murphy, because the trio had amazing chemistry.

Leathers give credit were it is due, Reigns no longer cuts goofy promos, his mic work is short and effective, he has displayed an intensity/aggression I've not seen from him before, I agree that a full heel turn would do wonders for him and we've seen him succeed in NXT with it but at the moment he is something in between a heel and babyface, so I can accept that; they won't turn him heel completely because they've made so much investment in him as a face so we've got to accept this middle ground and I think he has been doing some terrific character work lately and is great in the ring to.

Nikki as a heel was brilliant and pretty decent in the ring to, she has improved significantly; I don't want her to be a face. She is defo the favourite to win the belt along with Becky. Sasha has taken her love for Eddie bit too far he was known to take it to another level in the ring when it came to the strong style, really put his body on the line when he didn't need to. Sasha needs to tone down her style but in that particular match Charlotte was incredibly reckless! did you see how she dropped her from the middle rope? that was nasty!!!

Bayley will no doubt be a female Cena, her gimmick is terrific to be fair; it won't be everyones cup of team with regards to the really old school fans but she's a cash cow for the WWE waiting to explode. The Smarks love her though and the young fans.

 

[leatherface58]

I wouldn't mind that either, both are comedy gold there's an article am going to post here regarding what you've just said about Jericho, he is CRIMINALLY underrated; when you give Jericho a bit of leeway he has that ability to reinvent himself irrespective of the era, no offence to Kane or Big Show but he has succeeded where they tend to fail, Jericho is supposed to be nothing more then talent enhancement but the fact that he isn't that too past his prime just goes to show what an ATG talent he was and still is.

Jericho did get lost in the shuffle during the RA era leathers but we couldn't have hoped for a better career in the circumstances, first undisputed champ, stellar rivalries with HHH, Rock etc, main-evented Wrestlemania, helped cement SD as a rival show, 9 time IC champ man I could go on and then when he returned in 2008 he had one of the greatest rivalries of all time against Shawn Michaels in 2008 and even better then the one they had around 2003, enjoyed another high calibre run as world champion enroute to a bout against Edge at Wrestlemania, who'd have thought that in 2010 Y2J would be in a world title bout at mania? the man is an absolute genius and it's an INSULT to even compare Seth to someone like Y2J let alone HBK.

Big Cass needs to get more experience, but he has the potential to be a decent A/R performer for a man his size. I'd like to think KO has a chance but when you look at how he has been booked am not sure they will go with him.

The other thing to point out is Ryan Ward head SD writer, has experience booking the likes of Carmella and the other NXT talent on SD and he knows how to get the best out of them. I must say though that it was a terrific turn for her and it's the first time I've seen her play that role, I love the intensity. Dude you should watch Alexa Bliss's stuff in NXT she reminds me soo much of Sensational Sherri!!! am a bit disappointing that she didn't move up with Blake and Murphy, because the trio had amazing chemistry.

Leathers give credit were it is due, Reigns no longer cuts goofy promos, his mic work is short and effective, he has displayed an intensity/aggression I've not seen from him before, I agree that a full heel turn would do wonders for him and we've seen him succeed in NXT with it but at the moment he is something in between a heel and babyface, so I can accept that; they won't turn him heel completely because they've made so much investment in him as a face so we've got to accept this middle ground and I think he has been doing some terrific character work lately and is great in the ring to.

Nikki as a heel was brilliant and pretty decent in the ring to, she has improved significantly; I don't want her to be a face. She is defo the favourite to win the belt along with Becky. Sasha has taken her love for Eddie bit too far he was known to take it to another level in the ring when it came to the strong style, really put his body on the line when he didn't need to. Sasha needs to tone down her style but in that particular match Charlotte was incredibly reckless! did you see how she dropped her from the middle rope? that was nasty!!!

Bayley will no doubt be a female Cena, her gimmick is terrific to be fair; it won't be everyones cup of team with regards to the really old school fans but she's a cash cow for the WWE waiting to explode. The Smarks love her though and the young fans.

What worries me is Bayley is friendly and smiling but with a badass side. Hopefully, Vince won't make her smiling all the time and getting beat up to raise "Sympy" of the people. Vince is known to exaggerate parts of NXT gimmicks such as making Enzo a complete ***** who cannot be taken seriously without Cass.

Bayley's debut means having to see that annoying Izzy on Raw sometime.

I can't quite place what annoys me about that girl but she is pretty annoying yeah.

 

[shaz619]

What worries me is Bayley is friendly and smiling but with a badass side. Hopefully, Vince won't make her smiling all the time and getting beat up to raise "Sympy" of the people. Vince is known to exaggerate parts of NXT gimmicks such as making Enzo a complete ***** who cannot be taken seriously without Cass.

Bayley's debut means having to see that annoying Izzy on Raw sometime.

I can't quite place what annoys me about that girl but she is pretty annoying yeah.

From the presentation of Bayley's gimmick in NXT I expect her to do quiet well, her persona is meant to be goofy but when push comes to shove she displays great intensity in the ring; her matches with Sasha are the stuff of legend. Enzo I quiet like to him and Cass are a great unit, remind me a little of the new age outlaws

) You want concessions Kane to break kayfabe and give her a tombstone on live TV lmao I'd mark out )

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] This was the article

http://411mania.com/wrestling/appreciating-the-gift-of-jericho/

"

Appreciating The Gift of Jericho

Chris Jericho doesn’t get enough credit for how good he is at re-inventing the wheel. When he returned prior to the Royal Rumble, he tried to play a fun-loving babyface, but came off like a grandpa trying to fit in at a high school party. The heel turn was predictable and the win over AJ Styles at Wrestlemania was upsetting, but Jericho ran with it. He became a real life delusional internet troll every Monday night. The 3rd grade insults, the constant repeating of the same phrase, the dumbfounded looks. Jericho puts it all together and continues to be relevant and entertaining in 2016.

It shouldn’t come as a shock that Jericho has found his footing after a rough start. That’s been the story of his WWE career.

Remember how fast he fell after his 1999 debut before entering into a feud with Chyna and finally finding stability? The Save Us Era got off to a rough start before he turned heel, entered a feud with Shawn Michaels, and became a suit wearing truth teller. And the “I’m not talking” return was dead on arrival before he finally grabbed a mic and went word for word with CM Punk.

Fans want to cheer Jericho when he returns, but he’s always done is best work as heel. The fact that he continues to come up with new ways to annoy the fans and get them to boo him is a testament to his ability. Guys like Kane and The Big Show have been around just as long as Jericho, but fans have very little interest in seeing them on television and WWE hasn’t exactly featured them as prominently as they’ve featured Jericho during this New Era.

As good as Jericho is in front of the camera, he’s also one of the smartest guys in the business behind it. He doesn’t want WWE selling “Stupid Idiot” merchandise because it’s supposed to be an insult, not a comedy line. The fact that you can’t buy a shirt that says “Stupid Idiot” just makes you want to dislike the guy even more. Talk is Jericho is one of the better wrestling podcasts out there as Jericho interviews relevant guests and seems to genuinely enjoy the conversation.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that Jericho is thriving as a personality in 2016. Anyone who has read his books knows that he’s a smart guy. It’s easy to dismiss him given his comments about always stealing the show, the extra weight he’s put on (the life of a wrestling rockstar waits for no man), or his lost first step in the ring, but I’m not sure we truly drink in what Jericho is selling us when he’s on screen.

Jericho’s place in wrestling history will be debated. Those on his side will say that he’s a nine-time Intercontinental Champion, the most in WWE history. He’s the first ever WWE Undisputed Champion, defeating The Rock and Steve Austin on the same night. He’s had great matches with Chris Benoit, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and Rey Mysterio. He’s had some of the most memorable feuds in WWE history. The against him will mention that he was never seen as a money drawing champion. That, while he did headline Wrestlemania, he was overshadowed by The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Triple H, and Stephanie McMahon. That he was a good guy, he was a bad guy, but he was never THE guy.

Jericho might not be a legend alongside Austin, Rock, Hogan, etc…, but that doesn’t diminish what he was able to do throughout his career. He was one of the most well-rounded performers of his generation. He’s never been afraid to try new things and mix it up. He held his own with legends and paved the way for the current generation. People like Chris Jericho don’t come around very often. We should appreciate the gift while he’s still around.

"

BOW !!!! Y2J you beauty, I hope I get to see you live at least once in the bears life time

 

[leatherface58]

[MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] This was the article

http://411mania.com/wrestling/appreciating-the-gift-of-jericho/

"

Appreciating The Gift of Jericho

Chris Jericho doesn’t get enough credit for how good he is at re-inventing the wheel. When he returned prior to the Royal Rumble, he tried to play a fun-loving babyface, but came off like a grandpa trying to fit in at a high school party. The heel turn was predictable and the win over AJ Styles at Wrestlemania was upsetting, but Jericho ran with it. He became a real life delusional internet troll every Monday night. The 3rd grade insults, the constant repeating of the same phrase, the dumbfounded looks. Jericho puts it all together and continues to be relevant and entertaining in 2016.

It shouldn’t come as a shock that Jericho has found his footing after a rough start. That’s been the story of his WWE career.

Remember how fast he fell after his 1999 debut before entering into a feud with Chyna and finally finding stability? The Save Us Era got off to a rough start before he turned heel, entered a feud with Shawn Michaels, and became a suit wearing truth teller. And the “I’m not talking” return was dead on arrival before he finally grabbed a mic and went word for word with CM Punk.

Fans want to cheer Jericho when he returns, but he’s always done is best work as heel. The fact that he continues to come up with new ways to annoy the fans and get them to boo him is a testament to his ability. Guys like Kane and The Big Show have been around just as long as Jericho, but fans have very little interest in seeing them on television and WWE hasn’t exactly featured them as prominently as they’ve featured Jericho during this New Era.

As good as Jericho is in front of the camera, he’s also one of the smartest guys in the business behind it. He doesn’t want WWE selling “Stupid Idiot” merchandise because it’s supposed to be an insult, not a comedy line. The fact that you can’t buy a shirt that says “Stupid Idiot” just makes you want to dislike the guy even more. Talk is Jericho is one of the better wrestling podcasts out there as Jericho interviews relevant guests and seems to genuinely enjoy the conversation.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that Jericho is thriving as a personality in 2016. Anyone who has read his books knows that he’s a smart guy. It’s easy to dismiss him given his comments about always stealing the show, the extra weight he’s put on (the life of a wrestling rockstar waits for no man), or his lost first step in the ring, but I’m not sure we truly drink in what Jericho is selling us when he’s on screen.

Jericho’s place in wrestling history will be debated. Those on his side will say that he’s a nine-time Intercontinental Champion, the most in WWE history. He’s the first ever WWE Undisputed Champion, defeating The Rock and Steve Austin on the same night. He’s had great matches with Chris Benoit, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and Rey Mysterio. He’s had some of the most memorable feuds in WWE history. The against him will mention that he was never seen as a money drawing champion. That, while he did headline Wrestlemania, he was overshadowed by The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Triple H, and Stephanie McMahon. That he was a good guy, he was a bad guy, but he was never THE guy.

Jericho might not be a legend alongside Austin, Rock, Hogan, etc…, but that doesn’t diminish what he was able to do throughout his career. He was one of the most well-rounded performers of his generation. He’s never been afraid to try new things and mix it up. He held his own with legends and paved the way for the current generation. People like Chris Jericho don’t come around very often. We should appreciate the gift while he’s still around.

"

BOW !!!! Y2J you beauty, I hope I get to see you live at least once in the bears life time

Indeed. Even as a babyface, Y2J seems like he is trolling the fans.

Y2J may not have the stature of a Rock or Austin but at his best, he was one of the few who could own them on the mic (Mick Foley was another one. Cena too).

I hope I meet Y2J one day. I want to DRINK IT IN MAAAAAN....

 

[Aman]

Also there is footage online of a really sick and twisted Dean Ambrose cutting promo's in CZW, when the sheild broke up most expected him to turn heel and become world champion. Being a heel comes a lot more naturally to him but the lunatic baby face gimmick has also been very succesful and that's evident by the pop he gets from the audience, I never thought I could imagine him being a face but he has made it work. The other thing is he is a lunatic but in this day and age his gimmick is limited, if this was the RA era he could go all mick foley on his opponents but he can't. The Reigns has been very decent so far and it would just be stupid if WWE had him in the mic-card again because he's a main-event calibre superstar who has consistently delivered, one thing I agree with you is that WWE need to cutt out all the goofyness when it comes to him because then guys like you would take him more seriously but Ambrose the wrestler is a very talented A/R performer.

AJ without a doubt is not only the best wrestler in the WWE but the best on the planet, he has the momentum and if they have him go over at backlash it wouldn't be such a bad idea at all. Personally I'd like to see him get his moment at Wrestlemania but not sure if WWE will go that way

Man I was hoping for a WM babyface run after winning the rumble then beating Brock, but Ambrose got nothing at SS. They're going to give it to AJ, he's way too hot now. They may do AJ v Cena III at Mania if Taker isn't available. The biggest opponents he can win the 16th against are AJ and Taker.

 

[shaz619]

Man I was hoping for a WM babyface run after winning the rumble then beating Brock, but Ambrose got nothing at SS. They're going to give it to AJ, he's way too hot now. They may do AJ v Cena III at Mania if Taker isn't available. The biggest opponents he can win the 16th against are AJ and Taker.

If Cena and Taker are 100% fit they will face each other, if Cena is not fit mark my words; Taker will 100% make a request to work with AJ Styles. Styles vs Taker would be an epic match, Taker is Old but Styles would get a 4 star match out of him because that's how good I believe he is. Not quiet sure who'd be an opponent for Styles in the case of Taker/Cena wrestling each other but he'd most likely be involved in a world title bout.

He's doing terrific work as a heel so no need to turn him face and just because he is heel doesn't mean he shouldn't get his moment at mania, it has been done in the past and most recently Seth won the title at mania as a heel. Besides with the lines being blurred given how smarks view heels in this day and age; particularly their indie favourites not like a heel Style would get nuclear heat which HHH did at mania 2000; that was an awful decision, made no sense for him to win that match.

Brock should never lose until he's on the brink of permanent retirement from pro-wrestling, not everyday Vince will have access to a special box office attraction which he can use to generate interest in the product.

I'd say Ambrose is the favourite but Styles could go over, am not fussed about either. Bryan was real hot at one point but they did the Wyatt angle, it bought him down and then they bought him back up and he was even hotter then before, the pay off was great. Styles is a heel obviously so it's a bit different but like I said before, no reason why they can't give him his moment at mania.

 

[leatherface58]

If Cena and Taker are 100% fit they will face each other, if Cena is not fit mark my words; Taker will 100% make a request to work with AJ Styles. Styles vs Taker would be an epic match, Taker is Old but Styles would get a 4 star match out of him because that's how good I believe he is. Not quiet sure who'd be an opponent for Styles in the case of Taker/Cena wrestling each other but he'd most likely be involved in a world title bout.

He's doing terrific work as a heel so no need to turn him face and just because he is heel doesn't mean he shouldn't get his moment at mania, it has been done in the past and most recently Seth won the title at mania as a heel. Besides with the lines being blurred given how smarks view heels in this day and age; particularly their indie favourites not like a heel Style would get nuclear heat which HHH did at mania 2000; that was an awful decision, made no sense for him to win that match.

Brock should never lose until he's on the brink of permanent retirement from pro-wrestling, not everyday Vince will have access to a special box office attraction which he can use to generate interest in the product.

I'd say Ambrose is the favourite but Styles could go over, am not fussed about either. Bryan was real hot at one point but they did the Wyatt angle, it bought him down and then they bought him back up and he was even hotter then before, the pay off was great. Styles is a heel obviously so it's a bit different but like I said before, no reason why they can't give him his moment at mania.

Broccoli's matches in 2016 have been crap. The raw ratings do not change much even upon Broccoli's appearance. For what it's worth, let Samoa Joe bury Broccoli in 10 seconds and Heyman jumps ship to Joe.

People talk about Cena's 5 moves of doom. Lesnar also has his 5 moves of doom.

German Suplex
F5
Bury the opponent
Go home for 6 months
Return

Broccoli of 2003 was my favorite wrestler ever but this Broccoli is unbearable. Blegh!

 

[shaz619]

Broccoli's matches in 2016 have been crap. The raw ratings do not change much even upon Broccoli's appearance. For what it's worth, let Samoa Joe bury Broccoli in 10 seconds and Heyman jumps ship to Joe.

People talk about Cena's 5 moves of doom. Lesnar also has his 5 moves of doom.

German Suplex
F5
Bury the opponent
Go home for 6 months
Return

Broccoli of 2003 was my favorite wrestler ever but this Broccoli is unbearable. Blegh!

Ratings don't improve significantly either when Taker, Austin, HBK and Rock appear on RAW its a different age in pro-wrestling. But Vince brings them back to boost PPV buyrates, Network Subscriptions and Ticket Sales; which is why Lesnar is unique amongst those stars as he is someone used for those very reasons except Vince has him signed to an actual contract. Promoters dream, once in a generation wrestler and a genius between the ropes; doesn't bump to enhance his longevity and is more over doing a few moves then wrestlers who try to kill themselves in the ring to get a reaction

 

[leatherface58]

Ratings don't improve significantly either when Taker, Austin, HBK and Rock appear on RAW its a different age in pro-wrestling. But Vince brings them back to boost PPV buyrates, Network Subscriptions and Ticket Sales; which is why Lesnar is unique amongst those stars as he is someone used for those very reasons except Vince has him signed to an actual contract. Promoters dream, once in a generation wrestler and a genius between the ropes; doesn't bump to enhance his longevity and is more over doing a few moves then wrestlers who try to kill themselves in the ring to get a reaction

Sasha is a key example. I saw that botch you talked about since I missed Summerslam and flinched. Triple H should tell her to take it easy if she is not smart enough to know that. She is rather petite and asking Charlotte to work stiff with her is not doing her any good. She is going to end up like Daniel Bryan.

 

[Aman]

Balor marks want him to win the Rumble in his first 30 days on the main roster.. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I hope Cena wins to set up AJ v Cena III for WM.

 

[Rayyman]

How is Roman Reigns doing? He's my fav!

 

[shaz619]

Sasha is a key example. I saw that botch you talked about since I missed Summerslam and flinched. Triple H should tell her to take it easy if she is not smart enough to know that. She is rather petite and asking Charlotte to work stiff with her is not doing her any good. She is going to end up like Daniel Bryan.

Sasha works a very physical strong style but in that particular spot Charlotte was at fault for dropping her like that, reports said she got a right bollocking for her performance. It was a great match enjoyed it, very NJPW feel to it but spots like that are not needed or that scary one where sasha reverses razors edge from top rope into a hurricarana, watch it again how sasha lands :/ She is banged up quiet bad which is why they took the belt of her and told her to take some time off

 

[leatherface58]

Balor marks want him to win the Rumble in his first 30 days on the main roster.. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I hope Cena wins to set up AJ v Cena III for WM.

Cena wins his third Rumble? Yes. Let's push this youngster more, shall we? Would rather have KO/Cesaro/Zayn (partial to first two) win and main event Mania with Styles.

Cena should feud with Taker at Mania 33.

 

[shaz619]

Cena wins his third Rumble? Yes. Let's push this youngster more, shall we? Would rather have KO/Cesaro/Zayn (partial to first two) win and main event Mania with Styles.

Cena should feud with Taker at Mania 33.

From the same logic, yeah time for Taker tk put that youngster Cena over right

But obviously there's always 1-2 spectacle matches on the mania card so its fine plus Cena/Taker never worked a high profile program, the feud wouod be brilliant and the match would be decent to. Also, a Taker win wouldn't be a no brainer. Still, match should have happened before the streak ended would have been way bigger.

At mania 29 main event should have been Rock v CM Punk and have Cena face Undertaker.

 

[leatherface58]

From the same logic, yeah time for Taker tk put that youngster Cena over right

But obviously there's always 1-2 spectacle matches on the mania card so its fine plus Cena/Taker never worked a high profile program, the feud wouod be brilliant and the match would be decent to. Also, a Taker win wouldn't be a no brainer. Still, match should have happened before the streak ended would have been way bigger.

At mania 29 main event should have been Rock v CM Punk and have Cena face Undertaker.

Cena has to be heel then. Cena's 'Rise above hate' phraseology makes no sense here because Taker is beyond love or hate. Besides, Taker beats Cena causing him to go further off the deep end.

 

[The_KING]

I love you Triple H.

 

[leatherface58]

I love you Triple H.

I WAS JUMPING UP AND DOWN!!!

The triggah was pulled on mah ni.. WHOOOOOPS!!!

You know what I mean!!!! I am so happy KO is champion.

 

[The_KING]

View attachment 69428

I WAS JUMPING UP AND DOWN!!!

The triggah was pulled on mah ni.. WHOOOOOPS!!!

You know what I mean!!!! I am so happy KO is champion.

Me too. KO deserves it and I'm been dying for a Rollins vs Triphe H feud. Now we finally got it.

 

[shaz619]

I love you Triple H.

View attachment 69428

I WAS JUMPING UP AND DOWN!!!

The triggah was pulled on mah ni.. WHOOOOOPS!!!

You know what I mean!!!! I am so happy KO is champion.

Try and think of the worst human being possible, HHH is even more filthy then that! HHH trying his best to suck up to smarks, it was so pathetic how he was hogging the spotlight at the end there! Reminded me of what Hogan was doinh when Bret won the title at mania, HHH raising owens arms in victory repeatedly came across as desperate and forced, he should have just left the damn ring after hitting his finisher.

Nothing HHH does in that glorified indy promotion NXT where HHH is allowed to get his ego massaged alot more emphatically can ever atone for his sins in the past and he would never have had the career he did were it not for his marriage to steph, one of the most overated stars in history.

And for the record, VINCE HAS THE FINAL CALL with regards to world title bouts and am glad he pulled the trigger with Owens, lets not sugar coat this as some kind of result which HHH influenced, he doesn't have as much power as he use to.

Thank God Owens won, he's going to be a fantastic champion. And FINALLY! Seth Borelinns could be turning face.

Also I like Neville but am loving how Jericho is winning more often lately Drink it in mayaaan!

 

[leatherface58]

Try and think of the worst human being possible, HHH is even more filthy then that! HHH trying his best to suck up to smarks, it was so pathetic how he was hogging the spotlight at the end there! Reminded me of what Hogan was doinh when Bret won the title at mania, HHH raising owens arms in victory repeatedly came across as desperate and forced, he should have just left the damn ring after hitting his finisher.

Nothing HHH does in that glorified indy promotion NXT where HHH is allowed to get his ego massaged alot more emphatically can ever atone for his sins in the past and he would never have had the career he did were it not for his marriage to steph, one of the most overated stars in history.

And for the record, VINCE HAS THE FINAL CALL with regards to world title bouts and am glad he pulled the trigger with Owens, lets not sugar coat this as some kind of result which HHH influenced, he doesn't have as much power as he use to.

Thank God Owens won, he's going to be a fantastic champion. And FINALLY! Seth Borelinns could be turning face.

Also I like Neville but am loving how Jericho is winning more often lately Drink it in mayaaan!

Haha hate on the game all you want but he is the reason mah bro KO is champion. Greatest comeback ever. Rise above hate brother bear.

 

[Aman]

Didn't like HHH making it all about himself, he stole KO's moment.

But I'm not surprised with anything the guy does, his ego of his won't let him walk away, he needs to be at the spotlight at all times.

 

[shaz619]

Haha hate on the game all you want but he is the reason mah bro KO is champion. Greatest comeback ever. Rise above hate brother bear.

Didn't like HHH making it all about himself, he stole KO's moment.

But I'm not surprised with anything the guy does, his ego of his won't let him walk away, he needs to be at the spotlight at all times.

Leathers has been seduced Aman but we can see through his black heart.

Even Paul London feels the same:

His thoughts on Kevin Owens winning the WWE Universal Title and Triple H’s involvement:

“The thing that really kind of disgusts me is Kevin Steen (Owens) who is one of my favorite people in the world and it really disgusts me is to see Triple H with his phony, fat smile draping all over Kevin Steen and saying that I believed in this guy all along. You know the body-builder, “the game” himself, Mr. Arnold Classic, Mr. Shredded is now super endorsing this non body-builder and who is kind of the anti-pro wrestler if you think about it (and from an attitude standpoint Kevin is amazing) but from that ideal WWE body that they valued and cherished for decades, he doesn’t fit the mold and I love that about him because cookie-cutter is boring. But I just think that this Hunter feigning over him is bullsh*t. It is just that, I think it is bullish*t. I think Hunter just does that to keep himself relevant at these new guys expense. It is almost like he is trying to give himself a rub off of these guys and it disgusts me.”

 

[Aman]

View attachment 69428

I WAS JUMPING UP AND DOWN!!!

The triggah was pulled on mah ni.. WHOOOOOPS!!!

You know what I mean!!!! I am so happy KO is champion.

This post sums it up.

Why on earth are people talking about HHH and Rollins when we should be talking about KO?

 

[shaz619]

This post sums it up.

Why on earth are people talking about HHH and Rollins when we should be talking about KO?

Terrific post, QOTW. You can be genuine smart fan when you're not in mark mode.

As it stands in the league tables for smart marks:

The Elite God:

Shazy Bear

Main Eventers:

Markhor
Adil
Aman (After burying milkman [MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] this week)
Red devil

Upper Mid Carders:

Hasan
Roary

Jobbers:

Teesra
Leatherface
Gilmir (Amir)
The KING of Jobbing
Talha Syed

 

[leatherface58]

Leathers has been seduced Aman but we can see through his black heart.

Even Paul London feels the same:

His thoughts on Kevin Owens winning the WWE Universal Title and Triple H’s involvement:

“The thing that really kind of disgusts me is Kevin Steen (Owens) who is one of my favorite people in the world and it really disgusts me is to see Triple H with his phony, fat smile draping all over Kevin Steen and saying that I believed in this guy all along. You know the body-builder, “the game” himself, Mr. Arnold Classic, Mr. Shredded is now super endorsing this non body-builder and who is kind of the anti-pro wrestler if you think about it (and from an attitude standpoint Kevin is amazing) but from that ideal WWE body that they valued and cherished for decades, he doesn’t fit the mold and I love that about him because cookie-cutter is boring. But I just think that this Hunter feigning over him is bullsh*t. It is just that, I think it is bullish*t. I think Hunter just does that to keep himself relevant at these new guys expense. It is almost like he is trying to give himself a rub off of these guys and it disgusts me.”

Paul London is known to be a notorious whiner much like Shazzy bear. Eventually, he will see the truth. HHH is an egomaniac and he has buried too many of my favorites but his work with NXT is amazing. I hope KO does not become a jobber champion like Rollins and I am happy a Shield member is not champion for once.

I agree that Based Haitch made it too much about himself towards the end but come on, KO is champ! For the first time, in a long time, I feel like actually watching Raw.

The way HHH booked KO in NXT is the way he should have been booked in the main roster. A monster. But a very smart and cunning monster. The way he destroyed Sami Zayn much like Broccoli destroyed Orton at Summerslam (without the brain lying on the mat) at TakeOver with all the fans looking in shock was great.

I hope KO and Y2J don't feud and instead win the tag titles but it looks unlikely with WWE going to it's 'heels gotta feud' storyline.

 

[leatherface58]

Terrific post, QOTW. You can be genuine smart fan when you're not in mark mode.

As it stands in the league tables for smart marks:

The Elite God:

Shazy Bear

Main Eventers:

Markhor
Adil
Aman (After burying milkman [MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] this week)
Red devil

Upper Mid Carders:

Hasan
Roary

Jobbers:

Teesra
Leatherface
Gilmir (Amir)
The KING of Jobbing
Talha Syed

I was undrafted. HEATH SLATER 4 LYF BAYBAY!!!

I gotta feed my 375 kids.

 

[Markhor]

Modern wrestling has turned into a joke.

Nobody sells anything, everybody kicks out of finishers even on TV, there's no story or psychology to any of these matches, nobody works a body part - its one high spot after another.

If I wanted to watch a demolition derby I'd watch NASCAR.

 

[shaz619]

Modern wrestling has turned into a joke.

Nobody sells anything, everybody kicks out of finishers even on TV, there's no story or psychology to any of these matches, nobody works a body part - its one high spot after another.

If I wanted to watch a demolition derby I'd watch NASCAR.

Times have changed, that's just the way matches in the WWE are booked stylistically barring NXT. We've moved on from the slow methodical southern style which Jim Cornette repeatedly has orgasams over. The guys today are on another level in terms of skill and athlethecism; lack of selling is not their fault when they are simply pandering to the apetites of todays audience who prefer high octane action and it is how the bookers lay out the matches.

In general though, there is a bigger emphasis on the quality of in-ring work in this day and age; high spots are a part of the game but it would be harsh to label these wrestlers spot monkey's. Styles was labelled just that at one point in his career but he is someone who is deserving of a comparison to Shawn Michaels.

Story/psychology can still be reflected without focussing on a specific limb, e.g see Cena v Styles 1 at SS the feud revolved around AJ claiming his superiority over Cena in the ring, during the match John had no answer to his offence for majority of the match before landing some haymakers.

Anyhow, there could certainly be a bit more selling but if you ask me wrestling needs to evolve and this is a good thing, we need dynamism in the industry. Sure the 80s and 90s there was a bit more selling, you got the epic build and the big pay off, the ring work was solid but in terms of pace todays generation have left them behind. However I would like to see a bit more selling, fewer false finishes, high spots and risky bumps but I do feel like the wrestlers of today are disrespected when compared to styles of the past.

 

[shaz619]

And NXT was great until Ryan Ward was there it has declined now, since you think HHH facilitates everything there give him credit for the decline you shovel mark.

 

[shaz619]

Shazzy bear. Hate all you want. But I will be there when you come licking Based Haitch's bootlaces. You know you will. I know you will.

On a serious note, if I were to break kayfabe for a while, Smackdown is consistently good and turning out to be a much better show than Raw in terms of storylines, wrestling, humor. And they have much less star power. I mean if you put out a horrible Raw with New Day, JeriKO, Rollins, Reigns, Rusev, Enzo and Cass and the Bullet Club then you are a poor writer.

SD is doing so well much like those good ol' days. They are doing everything the fans are wanting without spoon feeding them. Usos turned heel. Miz is serious and cutting fiery promos like he did in 2010 again. Styles went over Cena clean and is now having a great feud with Ambrose. And then talking smack is such a great show. DB without script burying Raw's crappy product, DB getting totally owned by CM Miz. Slater and Rhyno are the Team Hell No (of a different kind) of 2016. Hell, Slater's family is over too.

Raw has like 1 good show out of 5 while Smackdown has like 3 and even the rest are acceptable. Raw has the roster and star power for a good show but they are not consistent at all and cannot string together 2 good shows.

I would put Benoit in the hall of fame before I even entertain the idea of HHH being honoured, perhaps I'd consider him in the ego-maniacal shovel wing.

One of the pivotal factors in the quality of SD improving significantly is due to consistent booking/writing by Ryan Ward who was responsible for facilitating creative during his time in NXT but they also have the advantage of being 2 hours. RAW is just too long, a 3 hour show can be entertaining but there's just going to be an overload of filler in the long run derailing the quality of their weekly product.

 

[leatherface58]

I would put Benoit in the hall of fame before I even entertain the idea of HHH being honoured, perhaps I'd consider him in the ego-maniacal shovel wing.

One of the pivotal factors in the quality of SD improving significantly is due to consistent booking/writing by Ryan Ward who was responsible for facilitating creative during his time in NXT but they also have the advantage of being 2 hours. RAW is just too long, a 3 hour show can be entertaining but there's just going to be an overload of filler in the long run derailing the quality of their weekly product.

Picking a child murderer over an ego maniac? Hmm. Only you Shazzy bear. Only you.

 

[shaz619]

Picking a child murderer over an ego maniac? Hmm. Only you Shazzy bear. Only you.

The hall of fame is not for contributions to society but to the pro-wrestling world.

 

[shaz619]

Catching up on me WWE from the past two weeks, watching SD right now; fantastic opening segment between The Mizz and Ziggie. I personally want The Mizz to break honky tonk man record title reign, then have Goldberg come out to squash him in 10 seconds )

 

[shaz619]

Ibushi v Kendrick was amazing! I loved Paul London and Kendrick on SD during the RA era but all these years forgot just how good they were. Credit to Kendrick for getting himself into the best shape of his career, honestly this is true! you should also have seen him a year ago in NXT:

One of the most under-appreciated things in this WWE CWC tournament has been the story and work of Kendrick. The veteran that had fallen out of the spotlight, getting one last chance and doing everything he can to move on against the stronger, faster and younger competitors. His work here on the neck was fantastic, they delivered excellent near falls and when you add in the commentary of Daniel Bryan (willing his friend to continue on and win), who was in tears as he praised his friend’s effort at the end of the match, made it all the better. The only thing better than excellent wrestling is excellent wrestling with an equally as good a story.

Bryan Danielson was crying at the end of the match on commentary, Kendrick was in tears to and Ibushi! This is Wrestling People! It's real to me dammit! )

 

[Markhor]

Times have changed, that's just the way matches in the WWE are booked stylistically barring NXT. We've moved on from the slow methodical southern style which Jim Cornette repeatedly has orgasams over. The guys today are on another level in terms of skill and athlethecism; lack of selling is not their fault when they are simply pandering to the apetites of todays audience who prefer high octane action and it is how the bookers lay out the matches.

This generation is definitely more athletic, but that doesn't make them better wrestlers.

Wrestling is more than moving from one insane high spot to another - its about telling a story and evoking emotion. I'm not saying sit in a chinlock for 30 mins but would it kill anyone to SELL just a little more ?

Lack of selling is hurting the credibility of the business. Put it this way, when guys don't sell you're screaming to the audience that this is FAKE. That these moves don't hurt one bit. I hated it when Daniel Bryan would be in 20 mins into a match, and he'd be jumping up and down like a kid with a sugar rush. It destroys a fan's suspension of disbelief. I want to BELIEVE this match is taking a toll on these guys - that they're fighting for their lives. But these guys want to hit their pre-planned high spots and get a "this is awesome" chant going.

In general though, there is a bigger emphasis on the quality of in-ring work in this day and age; high spots are a part of the game but it would be harsh to label these wrestlers spot monkey's. Styles was labelled just that at one point in his career but he is someone who is deserving of a comparison to Shawn Michaels.

No he's not. Styles is a great wrestler but Michaels was a better seller, and could convey emotion like nobody I could ever see.

I'll give you an example - nobody could've pulled off Flair's retirement match better than Michaels. There wasn't a dry eye in the arena. This roster would've turned it into a finisher/spot-fest and would have no clue how to convey an emotional story like that.

Story/psychology can still be reflected without focussing on a specific limb, e.g see Cena v Styles 1 at SS the feud revolved around AJ claiming his superiority over Cena in the ring, during the match John had no answer to his offence for majority of the match before landing some haymakers.

It was a finisher fest. If Cena dropped a hydrogen bomb on Styles, he'd probably kick out at 2.

 

[shaz619]

This generation is definitely more athletic, but that doesn't make them better wrestlers.

Wrestling is more than moving from one insane high spot to another - its about telling a story and evoking emotion. I'm not saying sit in a chinlock for 30 mins but would it kill anyone to SELL just a little more ?

Lack of selling is hurting the credibility of the business. Put it this way, when guys don't sell you're screaming to the audience that this is FAKE. That these moves don't hurt one bit. I hated it when Daniel Bryan would be in 20 mins into a match, and he'd be jumping up and down like a kid with a sugar rush. It destroys a fan's suspension of disbelief. I want to BELIEVE this match is taking a toll on these guys - that they're fighting for their lives. But these guys want to hit their pre-planned high spots and get a "this is awesome" chant going.


No he's not. Styles is a great wrestler but Michaels was a better seller, and could convey emotion like nobody I could ever see.

I'll give you an example - nobody could've pulled off Flair's retirement match better than Michaels. There wasn't a dry eye in the arena. This roster would've turned it into a finisher/spot-fest and would have no clue how to convey an emotional story like that.


It was a finisher fest. If Cena dropped a hydrogen bomb on Styles, he'd probably kick out at 2.

Am not saying they are better but it is unfair to say that they are not better at the same time because like I said, stylistically the matches in this era are booked in that fashion. Don't believe me? just watch the matches of Zayn, Cesaro, KO, Balor , Neville etc from NXT or the independent scene where they sold a lot more, it's not that these wrestlers are unable to sell, it is more to do with the company ethos revolving around high octane action, a fast pace/work-rate and the high spots you speak off; it has been the "WWE TV Style" for a long time now.

Michaels is not just the better seller but without a doubt the greatest in-ring performer of all time in my estimation, even before he returned in 2002 many experts considered him to be the greatest inside the squared circle I still have the magazines! I am not suggesting that Styles is better then Michaels but he is worthy of a comparison to HBK, they are quiet similar in that they don't specialise in a specific style be it brawling, technical or high flying; they are versatile in that they base their in-ring work around the strengths and weaknesses of their opponent and combine their skillset to tell a story in the ring. Kurt Angle was arguably involved in the greatest match of all time, he fought HBK at mania 21 and he has gone out of his way to say that Styles is up there with Michaels and even said that if given the same platform (Wrestlemania) he'd have an even better match with Styles then he did with HBK. Not that I agree with that but just pointing out how good Styles is, his stellar work in Japan finally convinced the higher ups at the WWE as far as his value is concerned and he is consistently performing every week in the WWE now and is amongst their top stars.

Ric Flair deserved that send off, Michaels carried him all the way! he said to Flair prior to the match you just shut up and let me do all the talking! Honestly, HBK could get a 5* Classic out of a broom. I think that match in particular given the opponent who was completely past his prime and the SummerSlam one vs Hunter when HBK returned from that injury in 2002 highlight why he's the greatest in-ring performer ever.

Many of the performers are incredibly talented beyond belief between the squared circle but they have to work the soft WWE Style once they move to the main-roster and the pace/high-octane action can at times get in the way of conveying emotion and telling a story between the ropes.

I wouldn't say the match was a finisher fest, just watch Rock v Cena from mania 29 )

You should watch the NXT specials and especially WWE CWC, a lot more selling, emotion and story during the match for you Markhor and not sure if you missed it but we even had a Pakistani during the tournament! his name is Mustafa Ali. Don't even ask how the indie promoters use to book him in the early 2000's, had him depicting Ayraab Sheik and put him in a faction called Team Taliban ) very talented in the ring though and got better with age.

 

[shaz619]

Conor Mcgregor on John Cena:

"The Notorious" blasted WWE headliner John Cena, arguably the most popular man in that world, in particular.

"What's the main guy? John Cena," the UFC featherweight champion said. "He's 40. He's 40 years of age. He's walking around in a luminous orange t-shirt and a headband talking about nobody can see him. We can see him right there. He's a big fat, 40-year-old failed Mr. Olympia [expletive]."

)
[MENTION=137238]Anchorman[/MENTION]

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - Not particularly but interesting to see how he fares after all this build-up.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - Not particularly but interesting to see how he fares after all this build-up.

Gall is someone who started out as an MMA fighter, fresher in terms of his health/physicality and when it comes to speed, power and technique he'll be a couple of seconds ahead of Punk. Everything will come a lot more naturally to him, instinctive if you will. Punk's best chance will be to take the fight to the ground and get a submission victory. Punk has the bigger heart though and he won't be so nervous being in front of a big crowd with the spotlight on him.

However, Punk is a huge underdog and if he manages to go the distance it would be a monumental achievement. People tend to point out how Lesnar found success in the Octogan after making the switch from pro-wrestling to MMA but they forget that he was an NCAA champion with a solid grounding in free-style wrestling, plus he was a legit freak of nature.

 

[Rana]

I cant see how Punk can return back to the WWE after this defeat. He shouldnt be welcomed with a heroes return. The guy walked out on his fans on the eve of a Wrestlemania only to be underground for 2 years and then getting his a** handed to him in the octagon. What credibility does he have left?

 

[shaz619]

I cant see how Punk can return back to the WWE after this defeat. He shouldnt be welcomed with a heroes return. The guy walked out on his fans on the eve of a Wrestlemania only to be underground for 2 years and then getting his a** handed to him in the octagon. What credibility does he have left?

Firstly, Punk was fired by the WWE on his wedding day; he did not quit the company actually and HHH ran him into the ground by having him wrestle incredibly banged up/injured on a ridiculous schedule, creatively he was buried and never got the respect he deserved despite having the most critically acclaimed runs as champion in modern pro-wrestling history. WWE have a rich history of being notoriously petty and as difficult a personality Punk can be to manage I blame them entirely for his departure because he gave his blood, sweat and tears, went out on a limb to justify his ideas enroute to generating so much $$$$ for Vince but they didn't like the fact that they were never responsible for his ascension but thanks to the success he had we've seen that he opened the door for other indy talent to be successful and change the attitude the WWE had towards them.

Punk is above the WWE on every level, he doesn't need them, they would kill to have a talent of his calibre.

And I'd like to see you step in the Octagon Rana , you'd pass out while walking towards the cage ) Punk doesn't care what small minded people like you think, he chased his dream and it was a monumental achievement in itself that he managed to actually step foot in the cage. He didn't start his career out as an MMA fighter, is 37 years old and his body was incredibly banged up from pro-wrestling related injuries where he was busting his back for the ungrateful senile higher ups in the WWE, to top that he had no prior experience in any fighting style and lacked natural gifts necessary to be competitive at the higher level so he was bound to struggle.

However, he gave it his all and soldiered on despite getting injured during camp when his fight kept getting delayed thanks to the pro-wrestling related injuries and he did well to enter the Octogan with 2 years experience vs an opponent with 6 years experience, younger and healthier. Still, he managed to last longer then Mickey Galls previous opponents and longer then Brock Lesnar in his UFC debut so when you use your brain cells and put things in perspective then Punk didn't do so bad, he had nothing to lose and wasn't expected to win either so his credibility if anything has been elevated given the odds which were stacked against him so the fact that he stepped foot in the cage was huge.

Here's the thing, are you seriously talking about credibility in pro-wrestling? it is scripted Sure if you were talking about him stepping in the UFC again I'd say you have a point but seriously? credibility and pro-wrestling? anyhow Punk has been a huge draw for the WWE and an incredibly successful career for the company if anything his stock would have been elevated by the main-stream exposure he has received in the lead up to his MMA debut. You're telling me Vince would have fired Brock if he lost to Hunt? heck they have still kept him in the company despite his use of steroids, PED's to help him win the fight; if every star in the WWE had to be a successful MMA fighter there would be no roster, if anything the likes of Broid and Punk would take out 99% of the WWE roster.