The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Hitman]

One of the genuinly nicest people in raslin her last tweet was responding to all her fan mail, was one of my favourites back then. RIP.

My day has been ruined. I won’t be able to enjoy today’s match. This is honestly devastating. I really feel for her daughter.

Reading Torrie Wilson’s tweet, this might be a case of suicide. Don’t want to speculate, but that’s what the tweets of some of the people who knew her suggests.

I’m heartbroken.

 

[QalandarFan]

Little late but here's my Money InThe Bank 2019 PPV ratings, and man it was a hella of a PPV!

KICKOFF - Daniel Bryan & Rowan Vs. The Usos: 3.75 Stars

Women’s Money In The Bank Ladder Match: 4 Stars

Samoa Joe Vs. Rey Mysterio - United States Championship Match: 1 Star

Shane McMahon Vs. The Miz - Steel Cage Match: 2 Stars

Tony Nese Vs. Ariya Daivari - Cruiserweight Championship Match: 2 Stars

Becky Lynch Vs. Lacey Evans - RAW Women’s Championship Match: 2.75 Stars

Charlotte Flair Vs. Becky Lynch - SmackDown Women’s Championship Match: 2.75 Stars

Bayley Vs. Charlotte Flair - SmackDown Women’s Championship Match: (Not a rating for the match but more the moment) 4.25 Stars

Seth Rollins Vs. AJ Styles - Universal Championship Match: 5 Stars! (my dream match came true!)

Kofi Kingston Vs. Kevin Owens - WWE Championship Match: 3.75 Stars

Men's Money In The Bank Ladder Match: 4.5 Stars

Solid show as I said before, there were some meh matches but that's all fine and well when you have some great moments like Bayley winning the MITB the Brock Lesnar swerve, along with excellent in ring matches in Seth V AJ and the Mens MITB Match.

Honestly my two favorite parts of the night were the Seth Rollins vs AJ match and the Mens MITB match. Seth Rollins VS AJ Styles has long been one of my dream matches and boy did it deliver. I feel like they didn't even reach their best no where near it. I wanna see these guys go at with a full blown rivalry the babyface v babyface rivalry never works for me. I want to see AJ turn heel soon as he is so much better as a heel, and if and when he does we could have a killer main event and rivalry set for Summerslam in my opinion. This match was everything we all expected it to be but the one thing none of us will forget and the moment that lit the arena ablaze was that reversal of the curb stomp into the Styles Clash from AJ. AJ didn't get much offense in in this match, no 450 splash, no forearm splash, tried a pele but didn't land it so when he did land that Styles Clash I actually thought he was going to win it for a second. Simply amazing, imagine how good their match will be when both of them get equal amount of offense in, and the match felt way to short, I'm really looking forward to a more meaningful rematch between these two with AJ as a heel.

Then the Money InThe Bank ladder match oh boy. Simply put without the ending this was a great match, but with the ending oh it just made the match even better. Brock Lesnar is truly one of the last superstars left who can genuinely shock you. He get's a lot of flack for holding onto the Universalv title for so long but his departure from the company shows why he held onto it for so long. Raw didn't magically become good once he dropped the belt to Rollins, infact ratings plummeted to all time lows, now obviously that isn't on Seth but more the creative team for churning up pretty bad story lines but still.

The only con from that match is for a second I actually thought Ali was going to WIN the MONEY IN THE FREAKING BANK. I was jumping up and down like crazy but I guess it was not to be.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what are your views on MITB gotta be disappointed Ali got so close and didn't win it was truly heartbreaking. I wish they had put Randy in Ali's place almost securing the briefcase only for Brock to show up that would have been comical and it wouldn't be so heartbreaking.

 

[shaz619]

Little late but here's my Money InThe Bank 2019 PPV ratings, and man it was a hella of a PPV!

KICKOFF - Daniel Bryan & Rowan Vs. The Usos: 3.75 Stars

Women’s Money In The Bank Ladder Match: 4 Stars

Samoa Joe Vs. Rey Mysterio - United States Championship Match: 1 Star

Shane McMahon Vs. The Miz - Steel Cage Match: 2 Stars

Tony Nese Vs. Ariya Daivari - Cruiserweight Championship Match: 2 Stars

Becky Lynch Vs. Lacey Evans - RAW Women’s Championship Match: 2.75 Stars

Charlotte Flair Vs. Becky Lynch - SmackDown Women’s Championship Match: 2.75 Stars

Bayley Vs. Charlotte Flair - SmackDown Women’s Championship Match: (Not a rating for the match but more the moment) 4.25 Stars

Seth Rollins Vs. AJ Styles - Universal Championship Match: 5 Stars! (my dream match came true!)

Kofi Kingston Vs. Kevin Owens - WWE Championship Match: 3.75 Stars

Men's Money In The Bank Ladder Match: 4.5 Stars

Solid show as I said before, there were some meh matches but that's all fine and well when you have some great moments like Bayley winning the MITB the Brock Lesnar swerve, along with excellent in ring matches in Seth V AJ and the Mens MITB Match.

Honestly my two favorite parts of the night were the Seth Rollins vs AJ match and the Mens MITB match. Seth Rollins VS AJ Styles has long been one of my dream matches and boy did it deliver. I feel like they didn't even reach their best no where near it. I wanna see these guys go at with a full blown rivalry the babyface v babyface rivalry never works for me. I want to see AJ turn heel soon as he is so much better as a heel, and if and when he does we could have a killer main event and rivalry set for Summerslam in my opinion. This match was everything we all expected it to be but the one thing none of us will forget and the moment that lit the arena ablaze was that reversal of the curb stomp into the Styles Clash from AJ. AJ didn't get much offense in in this match, no 450 splash, no forearm splash, tried a pele but didn't land it so when he did land that Styles Clash I actually thought he was going to win it for a second. Simply amazing, imagine how good their match will be when both of them get equal amount of offense in, and the match felt way to short, I'm really looking forward to a more meaningful rematch between these two with AJ as a heel.

Then the Money InThe Bank ladder match oh boy. Simply put without the ending this was a great match, but with the ending oh it just made the match even better. Brock Lesnar is truly one of the last superstars left who can genuinely shock you. He get's a lot of flack for holding onto the Universalv title for so long but his departure from the company shows why he held onto it for so long. Raw didn't magically become good once he dropped the belt to Rollins, infact ratings plummeted to all time lows, now obviously that isn't on Seth but more the creative team for churning up pretty bad story lines but still.

The only con from that match is for a second I actually thought Ali was going to WIN the MONEY IN THE FREAKING BANK. I was jumping up and down like crazy but I guess it was not to be.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what are your views on MITB gotta be disappointed Ali got so close and didn't win it was truly heartbreaking. I wish they had put Randy in Ali's place almost securing the briefcase only for Brock to show up that would have been comical and it wouldn't be so heartbreaking.

Hey mate, I mainly watched the MITB match and Seth / AJ, the rest I just saw highlights. When it came to the womens segments, I thought they were great in terms of how dramatic they were so that made it entertaining.

Seth / AJ was fantastic as expected, AJ just meshes well with everyone and is a personified all time great and the best in-ring performer of his generation, Seth is much improved now and sure Balor is decent to but AJ is just in a league of elite performers in history, we're talking the nature boy Ric Flair (may Allah speed his recovery), Shawn Michaels, Austin and Bret the Hitman Heart; I have seen him work all styles across different era's when demands have been distinct, his resume is just stellar. Am just dissapointed that the match which I watched live AJ / Orton had the disruption with the lights which caused so much disruption amongst fans which then caused disruption for fans who didn't have the same issue in the crowd, maybe I will get to see him perform in better circumstances one day but time is running out as this is his final deal which he has signed allegedly.

The MITB was one hell of a shoot out and the pace was incredible, everyone played their role like literally every single wrestler in the match shined for me and no one looked awful coming out that match they were all protected. It's unfortunate that Ali lost and you feel that sadness which is exactly why he should have been the last guy climbing that ladder before Brock came out, Ali gets more baby face sympathy and that's great for his persona which is all about that guy who keeps fighting against all odds, it also puts him over big time to be the final guy to climb up there, Vince rates Ali very highly and he sells so well beyond those insane high-spots, a very clever wrestler. Am also one of the few who doesn't mind that Brock one going by the heel heat he has generated, also enjoy hipster smarks having an absolute meltdown while Brocky 2 belts trolls them so hard )

 

[Hasan123]

Cannot believe Lesnar won the money in the bank. Drew deserved to be honest.

Ie enjoyed Seth vs AJ. Doesn't seem like WWE will keep on shoving this match down our throats. We may have to wait a while for another match between the 2. Which makes the next match more interesting and feel like something fresh.

 

[The_Odd_One]

So who is jobbing to Paul Levesque at Summerslam?

 

[QalandarFan]

Cannot believe Lesnar won the money in the bank. Drew deserved to be honest.

Ie enjoyed Seth vs AJ. Doesn't seem like WWE will keep on shoving this match down our throats. We may have to wait a while for another match between the 2. Which makes the next match more interesting and feel like something fresh.

They've made Drew into a laughing stock almost basically, which is kind of annoying, they did it with Braun first but I wasn't to bothered by it, as I didn't see much talent in Braun, but he was still over. Drew is supremley talented both in the ring and with the mic, he could if given the right opportuity become the top heel in WWE. They just keep making Drew lose matches though which is so frustrating, I remember couple months back he was a legititamte contender to face Brock for the Universal title, now after the amount of losses he has faced just doesn't feel right.

Speaking of AJ/Seth yeah it does look like they won't wrestle again till a big PPV and hopefully AJ turns heel the next time. For the time being I'd love a AJ/Drew feud

 

[QalandarFan]

So who is jobbing to Paul Levesque at Summerslam?

What are you talkling about? The last time Triple H had a match at Summerslam was 2012, and the last time he won a match at Summerslam was 10 years ago in 2009 and that too was as DX.

 

[shaz619]

What are you talkling about? The last time Triple H had a match at Summerslam was 2012, and the last time he won a match at Summerslam was 10 years ago in 2009 and that too was as DX.

He is among the few posters who don't do a bhangra over Huntdeep 24/7 because of his work in NXT purely designed to boost his own ego, I like people who remember the damage Huntdeep has created in the wrestling industry and I find it laughable hipster smarks are so eager for him to take over when he doesn't remotely compare to Vince and I don't mean that as a compliment, Vince isn't perfect but there's a reason why share holders have so much faith in him.

 

[shaz619]

So who is jobbing to Paul Levesque at Summerslam?

That's not in the works at the moment but currently he is using younger stars in developmental to massage his ego

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] WWE are moving to BT Sports, AEW meanwhile sign a deal with ITV for a weekly telecast which is huge for UK viewers as this will be free to air; their debut PPV event is this weekend and will include talent such as Chris Jericho, Young Bucks and Omega. For them to do well, they need not attempt to compete with WWE but focus on providing everyone a unique alternative

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] WWE are moving to BT Sports, AEW meanwhile sign a deal with ITV for a weekly telecast which is huge for UK viewers as this will be free to air; their debut PPV event is this weekend and will include talent such as Chris Jericho, Young Bucks and Omega. For them to do well, they need not attempt to compete with WWE but focus on providing everyone a unique alternative

It hasn't been confirmed that WWE is moving to BT sports yet has it ?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

20 years already.......

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After two decades, Owen Hart's death is still WWE's darkest hour: <a href="https://t.co/VO4ul3ECss">https://t.co/VO4ul3ECss</a> <a href="https://t.co/D7w1JJujSn">pic.twitter.com/D7w1JJujSn</a></p>— Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/1131603224958513155?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">20 years ago today, Owen Hart fell to his death during an entrance stunt at just 34 years old.<br><br>RIP to a legend. <a href="https://t.co/qoUd9DXrvK">pic.twitter.com/qoUd9DXrvK</a></p>— Bleacher Report WWE (@BR_WWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/BR_WWE/status/1131552487759126528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shaz619]

It hasn't been confirmed that WWE is moving to BT sports yet has it ?

The telegraph and most major media outlets besides sky have reported this so an announcement is anticipated in the near future, looks like behind the scenes the deal has been pretty much signed

 

[shaz619]

20 years already.......

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After two decades, Owen Hart's death is still WWE's darkest hour: <a href="https://t.co/VO4ul3ECss">https://t.co/VO4ul3ECss</a> <a href="https://t.co/D7w1JJujSn">pic.twitter.com/D7w1JJujSn</a></p>— Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/1131603224958513155?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">20 years ago today, Owen Hart fell to his death during an entrance stunt at just 34 years old.<br><br>RIP to a legend. <a href="https://t.co/qoUd9DXrvK">pic.twitter.com/qoUd9DXrvK</a></p>— Bleacher Report WWE (@BR_WWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/BR_WWE/status/1131552487759126528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

RIP, the saddest early wrestling memory in my life time. I remember this being all over the news, Owen was a class act and much loved outside the ring, he was a class-A prankster who got away with stuff only he could even with Vince

 

[Hasan123]

The telegraph and most major media outlets besides sky have reported this so an announcement is anticipated in the near future, looks like behind the scenes the deal has been pretty much signed

Most other sources have quoted the telegraph. Also in the telegraph article they spelt Becky Lynch as Becky Lunch. )

I wouldn’t say it’s a certainty right now.

 

[shaz619]

Most other sources have quoted the telegraph. Also in the telegraph article they spelt Becky Lynch as Becky Lunch. )

I wouldn’t say it’s a certainty right now.

In either case we should get a statement towards the final quarter, wwe deal with sky ends during that period. Unless sky go all out to keep the rights I think BT will be the new channel, from a coverage POV not a bad move, but fans who watch from NOW TV will be dissapointed

 

[Hasan123]

In either case we should get a statement towards the final quarter, wwe deal with sky ends during that period. Unless sky go all out to keep the rights I think BT will be the new channel, from a coverage POV not a bad move, but fans who watch from NOW TV will be dissapointed

I don’t have BT sports. But I have site where I can watch Raw and smackdown and also PPVs free so it’s no big deal for me.

 

[shaz619]

I don’t have BT sports. But I have site where I can watch Raw and smackdown and also PPVs free so it’s no big deal for me.

Same, the main interesting development here is AEW's deal with ITV; safe to say they will access a bigger pool of viewership compared to the Sky/BT platform although Vince will make more money but this should still be a bit of a concern, maybe they should have looked to get NXT UK on FTA as an exclusive instead of the network

 

[Hasan123]

Same, the main interesting development here is AEW's deal with ITV; safe to say they will access a bigger pool of viewership compared to the Sky/BT platform although Vince will make more money but this should still be a bit of a concern, maybe they should have looked to get NXT UK on FTA as an exclusive instead of the network

AEW development will be interesting. I don’t think the schedule will be as tough as WWE, also wrestlers should much more creative freedom.

 

[shaz619]

AEW development will be interesting. I don’t think the schedule will be as tough as WWE, also wrestlers should much more creative freedom.

Cody Rhodes recently shared one of his ideas which I found very interesting:

“One thing we really strongly want to present is wins and losses mattering again in pro wrestling. That takes more than the W and the L column. We’re talking about percentage of times someone loses to this particular maneuver, percentages against somebody of this height, a whole by-the-numbers approach that really intrigues me. It’s not a cornerstone of AEW necessarily but it’s a great peripheral element we’re working on and that’s going to be exclusive to us"

 

[The_Odd_One]

What are you talkling about? The last time Triple H had a match at Summerslam was 2012, and the last time he won a match at Summerslam was 10 years ago in 2009 and that too was as DX.

Triple H has a habit of inserting himself in big events. So, it was not wrong to ask who is going to job to Paul in the next big event.

 

[shaz619]

Triple H has a habit of inserting himself in big events. So, it was not wrong to ask who is going to job to Paul in the next big event.

)

Darth Burius

 

[QalandarFan]

Triple H has a habit of inserting himself in big events. So, it was not wrong to ask who is going to job to Paul in the next big event.

He does at Wrestlemania, but like I just told you he hasn’t had a match at SummerSlam in 7 years, and he is currently in no rivalry. But even at Wrestlemania he has been mostly putting guys over or losing.

Wrestlemania 27: Lost to Undertaker
Wrestlemania 28: Lost to Undertaker
Wrestlemania 29: Beat Brock Lesnar (This was just plain stupid he should of lost)
Wrestlemania 30: Put Daniel Bryan over
Wrestlemania 31: Beat Sting (Ok yeah he should of lost this one)
Wrestlemania 32: Put Roman Reigns over
Wrestlemania 33: Put Seth Rollins over
Wrestlemania 34: Put Ronda over and made her look like a beast whilst doing so.
Wrestlemania 35: Beat Batista (Yes I wanted to see history repeat itself here like everyone else and watch Batista kick HHH’s a** but this was Batista’s last match so it doesn’t make sense for him to lose because he still has gas in the tank left to put guys over, whereas Batista doesn’t. So like it or not I certainly didn’t I love Batista it was the right call)

So out of the lost 9 Wrestlemania’s he only won 3 matches. Furthermore I don’t see what the problem with him “inserting” himself into a match at the grandest stage is. It’s the biggest time of the year in WWE’s it’s when all their part timers come out, yes if he was winning everything like you implied by stating who’s jobbing to HHH at the next big event I would have a problem. But he is not winning. So your statement makes no sense.

 

[QalandarFan]

Cody Rhodes recently shared one of his ideas which I found very interesting:

“One thing we really strongly want to present is wins and losses mattering again in pro wrestling. That takes more than the W and the L column. We’re talking about percentage of times someone loses to this particular maneuver, percentages against somebody of this height, a whole by-the-numbers approach that really intrigues me. It’s not a cornerstone of AEW necessarily but it’s a great peripheral element we’re working on and that’s going to be exclusive to us"

Yeah I’ve been watching some interviews and it really sounds like they are going to make it seem like a real sport.

 

[shaz619]

He does at Wrestlemania, but like I just told you he hasn’t had a match at SummerSlam in 7 years, and he is currently in no rivalry. But even at Wrestlemania he has been mostly putting guys over or losing.

Wrestlemania 27: Lost to Undertaker
Wrestlemania 28: Lost to Undertaker
Wrestlemania 29: Beat Brock Lesnar (This was just plain stupid he should of lost)
Wrestlemania 30: Put Daniel Bryan over
Wrestlemania 31: Beat Sting (Ok yeah he should of lost this one)
Wrestlemania 32: Put Roman Reigns over
Wrestlemania 33: Put Seth Rollins over
Wrestlemania 34: Put Ronda over and made her look like a beast whilst doing so.
Wrestlemania 35: Beat Batista (Yes I wanted to see history repeat itself here like everyone else and watch Batista kick HHH’s a** but this was Batista’s last match so it doesn’t make sense for him to lose because he still has gas in the tank left to put guys over, whereas Batista doesn’t. So like it or not I certainly didn’t I love Batista it was the right call)

So out of the lost 9 Wrestlemania’s he only won 3 matches. Furthermore I don’t see what the problem with him “inserting” himself into a match at the grandest stage is. It’s the biggest time of the year in WWE’s it’s when all their part timers come out, yes if he was winning everything like you implied by stating who’s jobbing to HHH at the next big event I would have a problem. But he is not winning. So your statement makes no sense.

No one is beating Taker at mania during that time, HHH shouldn't get credit for putting over big mark lol

Heels notoriously are meant to put over the face at mania so he doesn't get credit for any of those put overs regardless. But beating Sting and a returning Lesnar was just criminal, the worst of them all was his win at WM2000 when he became the first heel to go over in a friggin main-event, just look at the reaction after the event, they were forced to set things straight at Backlash, Hunter thought yeah Austin is not around so he will finally get away with trying to position himself in a baby face spot as a heel lmao but the fans were not going to have any of it. Actually this story also wrote itself in the build up to mania 30, Bryan was expected to job to Sheamus but ended up beating Evolution in one night after the fans became extremely hostile and rabid.

Nothing HHH does in his career will ever erase the fact that he will remain a backstabbing politicking psychopath who puts his ego and personal gain above everything else, I know the new generation forgive him for his pet project in NXT but not me.

 

[shaz619]

May I also add that HHH did more to ruin Roman Reigns stock at WM 32, the match itself was a horrific DUD during a time when Reigns had so much heat, HHH just did more to play into the perception that he didn't deserve the push and was an inferior performer at the top level when a year earlier he had a great war with Lesnar despite his inexperience. Thankfully for Vince and Reigns, AJ Styles had just come in and helped elevate Reigns as champion with those two spectacular back to back PPV matches which helped the profile of both wrestlers.

While the match and result for Seth Rollins were positive, if you compare the entrances of the two and you"ll see exactly how HHH perceives himself compared to other talent. HHH had such as spectacular entrance and then Seth comes out with a torch lmao in fact Austin was criticising this on his podcast as well. Hell hath no fury if someone outshines HHH during an entrance or in the ring.

I give him credit for the showing at WM21 but that's just not enough for all the horrible behaviours in the past and how can I forget to mention what he did to Booker T, that alone erases any little positive

 

[shaz619]

I do like that HHH let Ronda throw a couple of shots, but it would have been more epic if he actually tapped out to the arm bar; it's not like an MMA champ and Olympic medalist is incapable of beating up a roided up dude in real life. But his ego would never ever allow something like that to happen.

 

[QalandarFan]

No one is beating Taker at mania during that time, HHH shouldn't get credit for putting over big mark lol

Heels notoriously are meant to put over the face at mania so he doesn't get credit for any of those put overs regardless. But beating Sting and a returning Lesnar was just criminal, the worst of them all was his win at WM2000 when he became the first heel to go over in a friggin main-event, just look at the reaction after the event, they were forced to set things straight at Backlash, Hunter thought yeah Austin is not around so he will finally get away with trying to position himself in a baby face spot as a heel lmao but the fans were not going to have any of it. Actually this story also wrote itself in the build up to mania 30, Bryan was expected to job to Sheamus but ended up beating Evolution in one night after the fans became extremely hostile and rabid.

Nothing HHH does in his career will ever erase the fact that he will remain a backstabbing politicking psychopath who puts his ego and personal gain above everything else, I know the new generation forgive him for his pet project in NXT but not me.

Lol that's why I said he lost to Undertaker instead of put over but like I've told you before Shaz I don't pay much attention to the backstage politics I just watch the shows, so I am unaware of all the backstage politics and ego things you mention about HHH.

If you think I am a fan of HHH due to his NXT work then that's not true. I get that HHH is often credited with the success of NXT and I also hear the people who say the WWE will be in a much better place when Vince leaves. But the truth is it is much more challenging to run WWE and deal with all the business aspects as it is a public company and Vince has so much more going on then just SMD and RAW. Compared to the Triple H who just runs NXT and that's primarily all he has to focus on. Plus with the main roster there are 5+ hours of weekly television plus a PPV every month. Compared to NXT which has 1 hour/week and a PPV 5 times a year. So there is just SOOO much more going on the main rosters compared to NXT. So no I am not one of those people who believe HHH will be a better CEO then Vince. Hell the attitude era and Vince's role in everything that happened in that era alone trumps anything HHH can even dream of doing as CEO. Vince is a man who revolutionized pro wrestling and I feel the man gets to much hate these days for booking a bland product. Yes the shows aren't that great these days but you can't just blame him it's not liking he's writing the 5 hours of TV each week, the writers in my opinion are to be blamed mainly.

As for Triple H I am still a fan of HHH as if I recall I have mentioned before I grew up watching the ruthless aggression era so all these guys HHH, John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, Edge, HBK, Kane, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, these are my childhood heroes. As a child growing up you don't look into the dirt sheets and see the backstage politics that are going on or how booking works you just look at a superstar and there character and you either like them or you don't. I was a huge fan of all these guys and hence I still am, like you just don't all of a sudden hate someone you've been watching and loved since you were a child.

 

[shaz619]

Lol that's why I said he lost to Undertaker instead of put over but like I've told you before Shaz I don't pay much attention to the backstage politics I just watch the shows, so I am unaware of all the backstage politics and ego things you mention about HHH.

If you think I am a fan of HHH due to his NXT work then that's not true. I get that HHH is often credited with the success of NXT and I also hear the people who say the WWE will be in a much better place when Vince leaves. But the truth is it is much more challenging to run WWE and deal with all the business aspects as it is a public company and Vince has so much more going on then just SMD and RAW. Compared to the Triple H who just runs NXT and that's primarily all he has to focus on. Plus with the main roster there are 5+ hours of weekly television plus a PPV every month. Compared to NXT which has 1 hour/week and a PPV 5 times a year. So there is just SOOO much more going on the main rosters compared to NXT. So no I am not one of those people who believe HHH will be a better CEO then Vince. Hell the attitude era and Vince's role in everything that happened in that era alone trumps anything HHH can even dream of doing as CEO. Vince is a man who revolutionized pro wrestling and I feel the man gets to much hate these days for booking a bland product. Yes the shows aren't that great these days but you can't just blame him it's not liking he's writing the 5 hours of TV each week, the writers in my opinion are to be blamed mainly.

As for Triple H I am still a fan of HHH as if I recall I have mentioned before I grew up watching the ruthless aggression era so all these guys HHH, John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, Edge, HBK, Kane, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, these are my childhood heroes. As a child growing up you don't look into the dirt sheets and see the backstage politics that are going on or how booking works you just look at a superstar and there character and you either like them or you don't. I was a huge fan of all these guys and hence I still am, like you just don't all of a sudden hate someone you've been watching and loved since you were a child.

I didn't say you support him because of NXT but majority of those who are fans of him in this day and age are smarks who watch NXT, I've seen it first hand and HHH just enjoys it so much the applause which he never got during his prime. You're a fairly hardcore fan so am surprised you're not aware of the backstage politics. Agreed, those who are asking for Vinces head on a platter are the biggest idiots around; there's a reason why share holders have so much faith in him, WWE would be in big trouble if god forbid something happened to him.

I agree with you there but at the same time even in the confines of kayfabe you ought to be disgusted with his wins at WM 2000 and WM 19 for example, he largely dominated post Austin/Rock and many a time didn't need to, was practically handed the WHC title and Taker was given his platform on SD also so he didn't clash with Hunter, I didn't pay as much attention to the dirt sheets myself and am not going to deny that there was really cool work being done during the RA era but some things just leave a really bad taste.

I guess am the [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] equivalent when it comes to what I think of HHH while he is that way with Hogan lol

 

[shaz619]

Going back to AEW, they have a deal with TNT in the US for a weekly show (For us in the UK it will be ITV), TNT for those who don't know were the previous distributor of Ted Turner's WCW product which received great exposure. AEW is also run by Tony Khan who is the son of Shahid Khan the billionaire business tycoon , so you can expect a decent amount of investment.

They ran their first PPV event yesterday and I feel it was largely well done. It didn't exactly try to re-invent the wheel like TNA in the early 2000's but their execution was very good as was the production, there were some sloppy moments in this regard and you're not going to expect a WWE level of presentation but I would still say they were solid.

Matches to look out for if you just want to catch the highlights:

Cody v Dustin - This was very emotionally charged and my personal favourite match of 2019, it was also Cody's best match I have ever seen, I tend to give him stick for his in-ring work but here he did very well, no one can deny his talent on the mic or as a character but in the ring he has not always delivered that main-event quality match on PPV but this time he did very well. Dustin is an experienced vet, pioneer and one hell of an all round performer, he really bought it to and for a man his age really hanged in there with a guy much younger.

Young Bucks / Lucha Brothers - This was basically a big spot fest, I think they took way too many risks then they needed to but it was a great for what it was and in this era the fans demand this style so you just take it with a pinch of salt but I think all involved are very talented regardless and it was a fun match to see, but they need to tone things down as the AEW schedule ramps up you don't want to be on the shelf.

Jericho / Omega - This was a solid main-event and both guys delivered, it was a challenging night for Omega because this was his first high profile match in North America in a long time and it will take him a while to adjust but he ought to get better with more experience, I always say North America is the toughest territory in the world and where you can really prove yourself. Jericho is a personified all time great and that just shows when he can compete at this level so far past his prime.

Moving forward, it will be a monumental challenge the weekly AEW telecasts and I look forward to seeing how they progress from here. Competition is good for wrestling. They have a decent roster and the right people behind the scenes involved with a lot of experience and that will help big time, was also great to hear Jim Ross on commentary again.

Ambrose signed a multi year deal with the company as well, a big catch without a doubt.

 

[QalandarFan]

I didn't say you support him because of NXT but majority of those who are fans of him in this day and age are smarks who watch NXT, I've seen it first hand and HHH just enjoys it so much the applause which he never got during his prime. You're a fairly hardcore fan so am surprised you're not aware of the backstage politics. Agreed, those who are asking for Vinces head on a platter are the biggest idiots around; there's a reason why share holders have so much faith in him, WWE would be in big trouble if god forbid something happened to him.

I agree with you there but at the same time even in the confines of kayfabe you ought to be disgusted with his wins at WM 2000 and WM 19 for example, he largely dominated post Austin/Rock and many a time didn't need to, was practically handed the WHC title and Taker was given his platform on SD also so he didn't clash with Hunter, I didn't pay as much attention to the dirt sheets myself and am not going to deny that there was really cool work being done during the RA era but some things just leave a really bad taste.

I guess am the [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] equivalent when it comes to what I think of HHH while he is that way with Hogan lol

Yeah I am aware of most things such as Shawn V Stone Cold backstage stuff in 1997 and just about everything nowadays but I guess HHH's backstage politics apart from the Booker T situation aren't just that popular.

 

[QalandarFan]

Going back to AEW, they have a deal with TNT in the US for a weekly show (For us in the UK it will be ITV), TNT for those who don't know were the previous distributor of Ted Turner's WCW product which received great exposure. AEW is also run by Tony Khan who is the son of Shahid Khan the billionaire business tycoon , so you can expect a decent amount of investment.

They ran their first PPV event yesterday and I feel it was largely well done. It didn't exactly try to re-invent the wheel like TNA in the early 2000's but their execution was very good as was the production, there were some sloppy moments in this regard and you're not going to expect a WWE level of presentation but I would still say they were solid.

Matches to look out for if you just want to catch the highlights:

Cody v Dustin - This was very emotionally charged and my personal favourite match of 2019, it was also Cody's best match I have ever seen, I tend to give him stick for his in-ring work but here he did very well, no one can deny his talent on the mic or as a character but in the ring he has not always delivered that main-event quality match on PPV but this time he did very well. Dustin is an experienced vet, pioneer and one hell of an all round performer, he really bought it to and for a man his age really hanged in there with a guy much younger.

Young Bucks / Lucha Brothers - This was basically a big spot fest, I think they took way too many risks then they needed to but it was a great for what it was and in this era the fans demand this style so you just take it with a pinch of salt but I think all involved are very talented regardless and it was a fun match to see, but they need to tone things down as the AEW schedule ramps up you don't want to be on the shelf.

Jericho / Omega - This was a solid main-event and both guys delivered, it was a challenging night for Omega because this was his first high profile match in North America in a long time and it will take him a while to adjust but he ought to get better with more experience, I always say North America is the toughest territory in the world and where you can really prove yourself. Jericho is a personified all time great and that just shows when he can compete at this level so far past his prime.

Moving forward, it will be a monumental challenge the weekly AEW telecasts and I look forward to seeing how they progress from here. Competition is good for wrestling. They have a decent roster and the right people behind the scenes involved with a lot of experience and that will help big time, was also great to hear Jim Ross on commentary again.

Ambrose signed a multi year deal with the company as well, a big catch without a doubt.

I didn't watch the whole show but the parts I did were amazing! The Rhodes Bros clashing it out, Bret Hart introducing the AEW Championship, The YoungBucks defeating the Lucha Brothers, along with match of the night was Chris Jericho V Kenny Omega. Who can forget Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) debuting for AEW!!! I thought he was going to take some time off and come back to WWE but I guess not this was a huge surprise for me and a huge bonus for AEW.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I am aware of most things such as Shawn V Stone Cold backstage stuff in 1997 and just about everything nowadays but I guess HHH's backstage politics apart from the Booker T situation aren't just that popular.

HHH's backstage antics are well documented and very notorious, the stuff with Booker is arguably the greatest burial of all time and no one forgets that at all especially fans who watched during that time. While HHH was a decent heel, he generated max heat primarily due to his influence over creative and marriage to stephanie, it made him an easy target for smarks during the AE era but they still were willing to forgive him when he came back in 2002 but after that he took his influence to another level beyond that point. Now it's cool for hipster smarks to cheer him because of the NXT shtick, not saying you are one of them as yo were a fan of his storylines and matches. But people like me and [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] don't forget , and I didn't even mention the stuff with CM Punk, surely that's not something for any of us to wipe under the rug.....that was just disgusting

I didn't watch the whole show but the parts I did were amazing! The Rhodes Bros clashing it out, Bret Hart introducing the AEW Championship, The YoungBucks defeating the Lucha Brothers, along with match of the night was Chris Jericho V Kenny Omega. Who can forget Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) debuting for AEW!!! I thought he was going to take some time off and come back to WWE but I guess not this was a huge surprise for me and a huge bonus for AEW.

You should defo watch the Cody v Dustin match in full from start to finish, there was also a moment during Cody's entrance where he took a dig at HHH you wont enjoy that bit though lol definitely watch the match, best of the year so far for me, that is wrestling personified the way I envision it at its best. Who knows, maybe AEW can lure Punk back into the game ? that would be massive.

 

[QalandarFan]

HHH's backstage antics are well documented and very notorious, the stuff with Booker is arguably the greatest burial of all time and no one forgets that at all especially fans who watched during that time. While HHH was a decent heel, he generated max heat primarily due to his influence over creative and marriage to stephanie, it made him an easy target for smarks during the AE era but they still were willing to forgive him when he came back in 2002 but after that he took his influence to another level beyond that point. Now it's cool for hipster smarks to cheer him because of the NXT shtick, not saying you are one of them as yo were a fan of his storylines and matches. But people like me and [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] don't forget , and I didn't even mention the stuff with CM Punk, surely that's not something for any of us to wipe under the rug.....that was just disgusting



You should defo watch the Cody v Dustin match in full from start to finish, there was also a moment during Cody's entrance where he took a dig at HHH you wont enjoy that bit though lol definitely watch the match, best of the year so far for me, that is wrestling personified the way I envision it at its best. Who knows, maybe AEW can lure Punk back into the game ? that would be massive.

I don't think Punk's ever gonna come back just don't see it happening. If it did your right it would be HUUUUGEEE!! And yeah Triple H beating Punk at Night of Champions 2011 I believe was kind of disappointing as that is where I and most people feel the downfall of Punk began.

As for the show I only fully watched the Jericho Omega match only seen highlights of Tag Team and Cody/Dustin match. Certainly need to find time to watch those matches too.

 

[QalandarFan]

I swear I only seen the 2 segments of Brock from tonight's raw and it was the best thing I've seen on Raw in months!!!! ) The Beast in the Box with his dance party first! Then we got to witness the Heyman-Brock gold of "I have a whole year to cash in" and then the slap in Heyman's face ) Best Raw content in a while! )

 

[QalandarFan]

Is it just me or is it kind of weird that WWE is using a 16 year old storyline to promote a match about to happen in 11 days? ) Like Randy and HHH can both have a hot feud if they just showed up. I'm pretty sure HHH is at all the Raw's and SD and Randy is too so why can't we get a new story line. Even though it would be NOWHERE near as good as the rivalry they had 15/16 years back as evolution it would still be fun.

 

[barah_admi]

So, my two pence on AEW...first off, I have barely followed WWE or wrestling at all in the last year, and even before that, I was not keeping an eye on the "indie" scene as I used to 10-15 years ago but watching that PPV I was reminded of all the horrible trappings that come with an indie project, or rather, something derived from the indie circuit. The gimmicks and characters are cartoons at best, there is way too much overacting and over selling and honestly, most oft he wrestlers look like little boys.

The main event was the only draw and it was terrific but it is clear to see Jericho is years and years past his best and Omega just is not good enough. AJ/Rollins was better and it's due to a very basic detail - these two are simply better than Omega and better than this version of Jericho.

All that leads me to my biggest criticism and really, the saddest. AEW is making the same mistake as TNA made all those years ago, the constant references to WWE in their promos, by their wrestlers, in their pursuit of some sort of nemesis (WWE will simply ignore in the long run and that is the worst kind of insult) and in calling back to the past. Dustin Rhodes as one of the major names on a ppv in 2019? Come on now. Their big announcement a guy who wrestled in the WWE a few weeks ago?

No no no, do not go the way of TNA or WCW. I want AEW to do well simply because the big E needs competition but they have to do it by charting their own path and creating their own identity.

 

[shaz619]

So, my two pence on AEW...first off, I have barely followed WWE or wrestling at all in the last year, and even before that, I was not keeping an eye on the "indie" scene as I used to 10-15 years ago but watching that PPV I was reminded of all the horrible trappings that come with an indie project, or rather, something derived from the indie circuit. The gimmicks and characters are cartoons at best, there is way too much overacting and over selling and honestly, most oft he wrestlers look like little boys.

The main event was the only draw and it was terrific but it is clear to see Jericho is years and years past his best and Omega just is not good enough. AJ/Rollins was better and it's due to a very basic detail - these two are simply better than Omega and better than this version of Jericho.

All that leads me to my biggest criticism and really, the saddest. AEW is making the same mistake as TNA made all those years ago, the constant references to WWE in their promos, by their wrestlers, in their pursuit of some sort of nemesis (WWE will simply ignore in the long run and that is the worst kind of insult) and in calling back to the past. Dustin Rhodes as one of the major names on a ppv in 2019? Come on now. Their big announcement a guy who wrestled in the WWE a few weeks ago?

No no no, do not go the way of TNA or WCW. I want AEW to do well simply because the big E needs competition but they have to do it by charting their own path and creating their own identity.

The thing is this was their first PPV without much of a build so I understand your criticism regarding the characters and gimmicks etc I believe this exercise is primarily designed to gauge interest for the debut on TNT. So lets give them a chance until the weekly shows start in October....regarding the style you witnessed, I wouldn't call it over-selling; it's no selling, fast paced high spot wrestling, am not the biggest fan of this form you probably witnessed in the tag match but this is the modern style, although here they went OTT because they don't have rigorous schedule to worry about like a WWE, but still it is risky if this continues in the long run.

I thought Cody / Dustin was fantastic piece of story telling, I get your view that in 2019 is this their best direction but look at it from a nostalgia / emotional investment POV; these two men are brothers in arms, their legendary father passed away, they never got the chance to have a proper blood feud in WWE, they were not creatively enthralled within the scripted world of WWE so left and carved out their own destiny in the form of AEW and had a match on the debut PPV, it's hardly something to criticise and they delivered because that was by the best North American match in 2019.

Regarding Omega, yes his fans overly hype him to the moon and believe you me am not one of those guys at all; but he is someone they are going to build their company around. This was his first north american high profile match in years, he needs to adapt to the style again having worked in Japan for majority of his career; he's not an AJ Styles or Shawn that can just swtich things up very easily but he is very talented and you will see the best of him in the future. Jericho can still go and having him or the likes of Ambrose around is not a bad move, they need to move the needle right, it's good to have big names around to raise the profile of your promotion.

AEW have a long hard road ahead of them but lets give them some time to prove themselves, regardless competition is good

 

[shaz619]

I swear I only seen the 2 segments of Brock from tonight's raw and it was the best thing I've seen on Raw in months!!!! ) The Beast in the Box with his dance party first! Then we got to witness the Heyman-Brock gold of "I have a whole year to cash in" and then the slap in Heyman's face ) Best Raw content in a while! )

Lmao Beast Box was the best thing on the show, Brock is criminally under rated

 

[shaz619]

Is it just me or is it kind of weird that WWE is using a 16 year old storyline to promote a match about to happen in 11 days? ) Like Randy and HHH can both have a hot feud if they just showed up. I'm pretty sure HHH is at all the Raw's and SD and Randy is too so why can't we get a new story line. Even though it would be NOWHERE near as good as the rivalry they had 15/16 years back as evolution it would still be fun.

That was hilarious lmao I kept thinking the same, it's just lazyness from creative isn't it, but their $$$$$$ has already been confirmed at sweet saudi blood money PPV so they just called it in I guess, but give us a little build at least. Then again I probably go to sleep during the match anyway )

 

[QalandarFan]

That was hilarious lmao I kept thinking the same, it's just lazyness from creative isn't it, but their $$$$$$ has already been confirmed at sweet saudi blood money PPV so they just called it in I guess, but give us a little build at least. Then again I probably go to sleep during the match anyway )

Haha true I mean Randy still has a couple good years of pro wrestling left in him I feel. As for HHH I hated when he became the authority heel figure back in like 2013. Not just Triple H but apart from Vince McMahon anybody who has tried to play that heel authority figure has failed. It just doesn't work the only guy who could pull it off and boy he did was Vince McMahon, and that too wasn't without the help of Stone Cold who Vince had such good chemistry with. If HHH pulls up to Saudia Arabia with his long hair and the trimmed beard, I will instantly be more intrigued in the match as that King of King/The Game/Cerebral Assassin character is one of my favorite characters as I mentioned.

As for Randy he had some pretty good heel stuff going on couple months back it's kind of fizzed out. But one thing with Randy and I guess HHH to is they both should be heels, working as a face just doesn't feel right for them. Randy even hates working as a face so from now to the end of his career he should remain a heel. The thing with Randy is kind of like Brock working a match. If he is into the feud and the story he'll work his *** off to make it entertaining, and it more often that not is. But if he doesn't really care about the feud you can tell from a mile away.

 

[QalandarFan]

I am most looking forward to Undertaker vs Goldberg at what ever this Saudi Show is called. Imagine if somebody told you we'd get to see this match 20 years ago!

I will always be bitter about Vince not putting the Undertaker up against Sting at Mania 31 as I was there at Mania that year to! But Vince apparently didn't want two 50 year old men working match! Smh I woulda died to see Taker V Sting at Mania in a Hell in a Cell it had been my dream match for years!

 

[Rana]

Brock lesnar dancing like that goes to show that the guy actually is a top class actor and the only guy who brings back the nostalgia of the good old days of kayfabe. Times when Kurt Angle, The Rock, Stone Cold and Chris Jericho we’re producing amazing story angles.

Just goes to show the one dimensional characters that the current Roster have had for many years now, lead perfectly by John Cena who has not innovated for over a decade!

 

[Rana]

Agreed with [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Just because he has poor mike skills doesn’t mean that the guy is poor as an entertainer. He is by far the best actor when it comes to real expressions. Never lets his opponents down whilst selling their moves also

 

[barah_admi]

The thing is this was their first PPV without much of a build so I understand your criticism regarding the characters and gimmicks etc I believe this exercise is primarily designed to gauge interest for the debut on TNT. So lets give them a chance until the weekly shows start in October....regarding the style you witnessed, I wouldn't call it over-selling; it's no selling, fast paced high spot wrestling, am not the biggest fan of this form you probably witnessed in the tag match but this is the modern style, although here they went OTT because they don't have rigorous schedule to worry about like a WWE, but still it is risky if this continues in the long run.

I thought Cody / Dustin was fantastic piece of story telling, I get your view that in 2019 is this their best direction but look at it from a nostalgia / emotional investment POV; these two men are brothers in arms, their legendary father passed away, they never got the chance to have a proper blood feud in WWE, they were not creatively enthralled within the scripted world of WWE so left and carved out their own destiny in the form of AEW and had a match on the debut PPV, it's hardly something to criticise and they delivered because that was by the best North American match in 2019.

Regarding Omega, yes his fans overly hype him to the moon and believe you me am not one of those guys at all; but he is someone they are going to build their company around. This was his first north american high profile match in years, he needs to adapt to the style again having worked in Japan for majority of his career; he's not an AJ Styles or Shawn that can just swtich things up very easily but he is very talented and you will see the best of him in the future. Jericho can still go and having him or the likes of Ambrose around is not a bad move, they need to move the needle right, it's good to have big names around to raise the profile of your promotion.

AEW have a long hard road ahead of them but lets give them some time to prove themselves, regardless competition is good

Look, I understand a lot of what you're saying but the main point is they can not build on old stars, did not work for WCW, did not work for TNA and will not work here. I know AEW has a long way to go and I hope it is successful but as of now, I saw nothing to entice me back to wrestling. I may be curious about the weekly shows and tune it but that is al ong way away.

 

[TalhaSyed]

I can't decide what I enjoyed more this week in wrestling...

The phenomenal show that was Double or Nothing with some excellent matches, surprises, story telling and introduction to a range of new superstars and characters....

....or being part of the Brock Party

 

[shaz619]

Look, I understand a lot of what you're saying but the main point is they can not build on old stars, did not work for WCW, did not work for TNA and will not work here. I know AEW has a long way to go and I hope it is successful but as of now, I saw nothing to entice me back to wrestling. I may be curious about the weekly shows and tune it but that is al ong way away.

WCW and TNA are probably the worst examples of how to utilise veteran talent, I very much doubt we will have a Hogan situation here with Jericho and Ambrose is hardly past his prime. If you look at some of the greatest promotions of all time, they all made use of experience; it moves the needle and when the booking is on point, elevates home grown stars you are trying to grow. But yeah right now there's nothing to judge or go by, maybe 12 months from now we will have an idea of what direction they are headed

 

[shaz619]

I can't decide what I enjoyed more this week in wrestling...

The phenomenal show that was Double or Nothing with some excellent matches, surprises, story telling and introduction to a range of new superstars and characters....

....or being part of the Brock Party

Brock party for sure, I want the merch It reminded me of Brock mocking Eddie I think on Smackdown early 2000's lol

 

[TalhaSyed]

Brock party for sure, I want the merch It reminded me of Brock mocking Eddie I think on Smackdown early 2000's lol

Man this made me laugh so hard ) )

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=667043380410779&id=423240964987936&sfnsn=mo

 

[gazza619]

Man this made me laugh so hard ) )

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=667043380410779&id=423240964987936&sfnsn=mo

What the heck has happened to wwe

Miss them old early 2000 days..those were the days man!

 

[shaz619]

Man this made me laugh so hard ) )

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=667043380410779&id=423240964987936&sfnsn=mo

Lmao have you seen the one with the Irish Jig )

 

[TalhaSyed]

Lmao have you seen the one with the Irish Jig )

Nah you got a link to it?

 

[TalhaSyed]

What the heck has happened to wwe

Miss them old early 2000 days..those were the days man!

WWE - like Pakistani cricket - has been in an ever continuous state of flux and "transition period" for the last 10 years

 

[QalandarFan]

Did you guys here Ambrose on Jericho's podcast. It goes to show why WWE has been crap for the past 10 years. And we haven't seen a big start truly emerge since John Cena. I didn't believe it at first but after listening to Ambrose it sounds like the biggest problem isn't the writers but McMahon himself. Like go listen to the podcast he writes absolote crap, and then when the performers try to change the script he says "no this is some good Sh*t, the people just love it." Vince just retire man, or at the very least stay away from the creative aspect of things. You truly are finished. 50 years of working in this business has taken it's toll on you now please back away with some respect, so all us WWE fans can truly enjoy it again. I'd say bring Heyman in as WWE head writer. If Vince backs off and lets Heyman write shows we all know how good the product could be. But of course Vince's ego would never allow that to happen. At least there is AEW to turn to soon though instead of this crap, we've been served up. It's so sad they have the greatest talent in the world you look at the names, guys like Roman, AJ, McIntyre, Balor, Ricochet, Ali, Cesaro, Roode, Rollins, Nakamura, Owens, Zayn, Rusev, Lashley, Zigler, EC3, Mysterio, Joe, Miz, Bryan, Hardy, Kingston, Black, Orton, etc. With this kind of talent it should be near impossible to put out a bad product, yet Vince won't let these guys shine.

 

[QalandarFan]

What the heck has happened to wwe

Miss them old early 2000 days..those were the days man!

Ahh yes the 90's and even 2000's in fact I more fondly remember the 2000's than the late 90's since that's what I grew up watching. But I guess they've just become complacent, ever since Vince bought out WCW for pennies there's been no competition and over time the complacency has increased. Hopefully AEW move their shows to Mondays and we can see another Monday Night Wars, I feel that's the only way to make the WWE realize they have to put out good stuff.

 

[shaz619]

Did you guys here Ambrose on Jericho's podcast. It goes to show why WWE has been crap for the past 10 years. And we haven't seen a big start truly emerge since John Cena. I didn't believe it at first but after listening to Ambrose it sounds like the biggest problem isn't the writers but McMahon himself. Like go listen to the podcast he writes absolote crap, and then when the performers try to change the script he says "no this is some good Sh*t, the people just love it." Vince just retire man, or at the very least stay away from the creative aspect of things. You truly are finished. 50 years of working in this business has taken it's toll on you now please back away with some respect, so all us WWE fans can truly enjoy it again. I'd say bring Heyman in as WWE head writer. If Vince backs off and lets Heyman write shows we all know how good the product could be. But of course Vince's ego would never allow that to happen. At least there is AEW to turn to soon though instead of this crap, we've been served up. It's so sad they have the greatest talent in the world you look at the names, guys like Roman, AJ, McIntyre, Balor, Ricochet, Ali, Cesaro, Roode, Rollins, Nakamura, Owens, Zayn, Rusev, Lashley, Zigler, EC3, Mysterio, Joe, Miz, Bryan, Hardy, Kingston, Black, Orton, etc. With this kind of talent it should be near impossible to put out a bad product, yet Vince won't let these guys shine.

It's easy to criticise WWE but quiet simply there are talents who are capable of delivering an unscripted promo / fail when given the chances are given while others do well, it's a case by case basis; a unscripted promo does not gurantee good results, you should also listen to the podcast from Hurricane he elaborates on this having worked for every major American promotion and it makes sense to. There are also various limits you need to respect, WWE is a family friendly product now.

Ambrose creatively didn't get to show what an amazing heel he can be like in CZW, hs is a talent which can do well without a script. But even without playing a persona he wanted to he did incredibly well as a face, won world championships, fought lesnae at mania and had an incredible run with the shield. You got to remember a lot of stuff will get exagerrated because Jericho and Ambrose are both AEW stars now.

You should listen to Punk's podcast with Cobana and the things he said about how HHH treats people he has a problem with, that pettiness still exists and that podcast doesn't have an agenda surrounding it, it was legit, HHH and his cronies killed Punk's passion till this day. WWE's major issue is skum like HHH holding people back, but the system has worked for decades while not perfect and we all still watch.

 

[QalandarFan]

It's easy to criticise WWE but quiet simply there are talents who are capable of delivering an unscripted promo / fail when given the chances are given while others do well, it's a case by case basis; a unscripted promo does not gurantee good results, you should also listen to the podcast from Hurricane he elaborates on this having worked for every major American promotion and it makes sense to. There are also various limits you need to respect, WWE is a family friendly product now.

Ambrose creatively didn't get to show what an amazing heel he can be like in CZW, hs is a talent which can do well without a script. But even without playing a persona he wanted to he did incredibly well as a face, won world championships, fought lesnae at mania and had an incredible run with the shield. You got to remember a lot of stuff will get exagerrated because Jericho and Ambrose are both AEW stars now.

You should listen to Punk's podcast with Cobana and the things he said about how HHH treats people he has a problem with, that pettiness still exists and that podcast doesn't have an agenda surrounding it, it was legit, HHH and his cronies killed Punk's passion till this day. WWE's major issue is skum like HHH holding people back, but the system has worked for decades while not perfect and we all still watch.

I've listened to the Punk podcast. ) Sure a lot of stuff Ambrose and Y2J say may be exaggerated, but the product I am seeing each week certainly is not. Up till Mania 34 last year I could still watch WWE without problem, the past year or so it's just gotten worse, and harder to watch, you have to admit.

 

[shaz619]

The telegraph and most major media outlets besides sky have reported this so an announcement is anticipated in the near future, looks like behind the scenes the deal has been pretty much signed

Most other sources have quoted the telegraph. Also in the telegraph article they spelt Becky Lynch as Becky Lunch. )

I wouldn’t say it’s a certainty right now.

The deal has been made official today:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#57000; ANNOUNCEMENT &#55357;&#57000;<br><br>BT Sport will be the new home of WWE in the UK and Ireland from January 2020.<br><br>Raw &#55357;&#56628;&#55357;&#56613;<br>SmackDown &#55357;&#56629;&#55357;&#56394;<br><br>WWE's monthly pay-per-view events, including WrestleMania, will be available on BT Sport Box Office. <a href="https://t.co/xutPHiW6q1">pic.twitter.com/xutPHiW6q1</a></p>— BT Sport (@btsport) <a href="https://twitter.com/btsport/status/1141631783697559553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[QalandarFan]

Stomping Ground today debating weather or not I should watch it. Didn't watch Raw or SD this week actually haven't in a while but apparently the go home shows were pretty good so I might tune in for Stomping Grounds.

I'm looking forward to Roman/Drew hopefully they can go out and deliver a good match, and Roman can also move on from this lackluster feud loved watching him kick a** on Raw on Monday though. That ***** a** kicking Roman is what everyone loves to see. But yeah time for prob WWE's biggest star to get back in the title hunt. The Kofi run has been good and all but honestly Roman deserves to be world champ more than anyone. All his world title reigns always get cut short he deserves a big year long title reign, on SD. Cause let's be real he's the best Superstar on Smackdown and one of the best Professional Wrestlers in the world period.

Also Ricochet/Joe and Owens/Kofi should also be good matches.

 

[shaz619]

Stomping Ground today debating weather or not I should watch it. Didn't watch Raw or SD this week actually haven't in a while but apparently the go home shows were pretty good so I might tune in for Stomping Grounds.

I'm looking forward to Roman/Drew hopefully they can go out and deliver a good match, and Roman can also move on from this lackluster feud loved watching him kick a** on Raw on Monday though. That ***** a** kicking Roman is what everyone loves to see. But yeah time for prob WWE's biggest star to get back in the title hunt. The Kofi run has been good and all but honestly Roman deserves to be world champ more than anyone. All his world title reigns always get cut short he deserves a big year long title reign, on SD. Cause let's be real he's the best Superstar on Smackdown and one of the best Professional Wrestlers in the world period.

Also Ricochet/Joe and Owens/Kofi should also be good matches.

Reading reviews from my trusted insiders, the under-card was an excellent one; however the final hour of the PPV did not deliver. They made a point to give credit to the insanely good production quality, I think it needs to be said this aspect we take for granted; the back-office staff do tremendous job, Ultimate Warrior wanted his award to be handed to them but WWE went down a different route.

Anyway I wont be watching the PPV, I been thinking off going on a big Network binge to watch WWE from the 90s all the way to the conclusion of the RA era (All the episodes between WM 10 - WM 23) I always see the end of the RA era in 2007, that horrific year where Benoit did what he did, Benoit changed the entire industry, not just in the WWE but other promotions to in North America, WWE would never go back to a product that was a bit gritty again and introduced a number of significant changes. Anyway, this binge will be tough seems very very long aha

 

[QalandarFan]

Reading reviews from my trusted insiders, the under-card was an excellent one; however the final hour of the PPV did not deliver. They made a point to give credit to the insanely good production quality, I think it needs to be said this aspect we take for granted; the back-office staff do tremendous job, Ultimate Warrior wanted his award to be handed to them but WWE went down a different route.

Anyway I wont be watching the PPV, I been thinking off going on a big Network binge to watch WWE from the 90s all the way to the conclusion of the RA era (All the episodes between WM 10 - WM 23) I always see the end of the RA era in 2007, that horrific year where Benoit did what he did, Benoit changed the entire industry, not just in the WWE but other promotions to in North America, WWE would never go back to a product that was a bit gritty again and introduced a number of significant changes. Anyway, this binge will be tough seems very very long aha

The PPV was actually pretty good. The two tag matches were fantastic as expected, and Roman/Drew could of been better but I just want Roman to move onto a better feud than the one he is in right now. The main event was actually very good and smartly booked. I didn't expect much from the Rollins/Corbin match heading into the night but my word did they both deliver and Lacy Evans performance was top notch as well as the ref. Great main event.

A 13 year WWE binge is going to be quite tough. Haha have fun with that, if I was gonna have a binge I'd probably cut it down to 98-03 to make it a bit more realistic. Dunno how your gonna watch 13 years of programming including PPV's and weekly Raw and Smackdown, in a binge. Even if you go non stop it would probably take a year to watch all that.

 

[shaz619]

The PPV was actually pretty good. The two tag matches were fantastic as expected, and Roman/Drew could of been better but I just want Roman to move onto a better feud than the one he is in right now. The main event was actually very good and smartly booked. I didn't expect much from the Rollins/Corbin match heading into the night but my word did they both deliver and Lacy Evans performance was top notch as well as the ref. Great main event.

A 13 year WWE binge is going to be quite tough. Haha have fun with that, if I was gonna have a binge I'd probably cut it down to 98-03 to make it a bit more realistic. Dunno how your gonna watch 13 years of programming including PPV's and weekly Raw and Smackdown, in a binge. Even if you go non stop it would probably take a year to watch all that.

Haha yeah it would be, for a few people trust me it's possible, all they ever watch is wrestling lol especially writers who review shows, they see literally everything. But select periods is more realistic definetly

 

[shaykh]

Random bit of info...

For Attitude era guys...before Val Venis became the Big Valbowski he studied at the London School of Economics...

And Shaz I understand Mauro Ranallo does WWE commentary...is he as bad for the WWE as he is for boxing?...

Recently got into wrestling again...but going back in time rather than forward...reliving some of the stuff from the 90s...WWE Network is amazing...

 

[shaz619]

Random bit of info...

For Attitude era guys...before Val Venis became the Big Valbowski he studied at the London School of Economics...

And Shaz I understand Mauro Ranallo does WWE commentary...is he as bad for the WWE as he is for boxing?...

Recently got into wrestling again...but going back in time rather than forward...reliving some of the stuff from the 90s...WWE Network is amazing...

That's one which I would never see coming lol what an interesting fact about Val Venis ahahahaah

Among the smark fan base Mauro is very popular, his style is probably better utilised in the WWE; although his knack for calling every single move is a bit annoying, there is no one quite like Jim Ross unfortunately who was excellent at telling a story and getting the match / characters over; interestingly, Jim has done a few Boxing shows and did decently.

Mauro is a fan of combat sports but when it comes to the technical aspects of Boxing he is not great, he is there for showing passion / excitement in a bid to make a bout more compelling, having him and the magic man together is a decent combo in that regard as one is a great analyst and the other a fan. But you know what though, if you don't have a great amount of knowledge on the technical aspects you can still do a very effective job; Crystina Poncher is a great example, clearly she does a lot of hard work and research before fights which actually shows and I like that.

Yeah the Network is basically WWE's Netflix, it really is incredible when it comes to the archive footage. Have a look at wrestlemania rewind specials among the originals they are fantastic and also have a look at the Kurt Angle documentary under the WWE 24 section in the originals which deserves an emmy in my view

When was the last time you watched anything from the modern era ? or just stopped altogether

 

[shaykh]

That's one which I would never see coming lol what an interesting fact about Val Venis ahahahaah

Among the smark fan base Mauro is very popular, his style is probably better utilised in the WWE; although his knack for calling every single move is a bit annoying, there is no one quite like Jim Ross unfortunately who was excellent at telling a story and getting the match / characters over; interestingly, Jim has done a few Boxing shows and did decently.

Mauro is a fan of combat sports but when it comes to the technical aspects of Boxing he is not great, he is there for showing passion / excitement in a bid to make a bout more compelling, having him and the magic man together is a decent combo in that regard as one is a great analyst and the other a fan. But you know what though, if you don't have a great amount of knowledge on the technical aspects you can still do a very effective job; Crystina Poncher is a great example, clearly she does a lot of hard work and research before fights which actually shows and I like that.

Yeah the Network is basically WWE's Netflix, it really is incredible when it comes to the archive footage. Have a look at wrestlemania rewind specials among the originals they are fantastic and also have a look at the Kurt Angle documentary under the WWE 24 section in the originals which deserves an emmy in my view

When was the last time you watched anything from the modern era ? or just stopped altogether

Dunno if you've watched back that far...but I loved Monsoon and Heenan...Heenan in particular was constantly hilarious...Rumble '92 was great...JR and Lawler were an excellent duo too...not a fan of Cole...

Lampley I think fits what you're saying as far as play by play guys go...not overly knowledgable but does a good job...Mauro just throws puns around and goes over dramatic...I can see how that would work on WWE...Poncher is a good shout...

Thanks for those suggestions...will check them out...

Not sure exactly when actually...been at least a decade...when did you start?...

 

[shaz619]

Dunno if you've watched back that far...but I loved Monsoon and Heenan...Heenan in particular was constantly hilarious...Rumble '92 was great...JR and Lawler were an excellent duo too...not a fan of Cole...

Lampley I think fits what you're saying as far as play by play guys go...not overly knowledgable but does a good job...Mauro just throws puns around and goes over dramatic...I can see how that would work on WWE...Poncher is a good shout...

Thanks for those suggestions...will check them out...

Not sure exactly when actually...been at least a decade...when did you start?...

My first exposure was during the attitude era but being a hardcore fan have followed the product from territory era when Flair put the industry on the map with incredible rivalries with the likes of Steamboat, Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes; yes absolutely no one can ever touch the combination of Heenan and Monsoon lol Heenan is the greatest manager in history and his commentary is arguably the greatest ever ) what a man, he would go an extra mile to get whatever he could over.

True, Mauro needs to tone that down; sometimes you can tell if it's organic or not. Damn, it's been a while since you watched, tbh you've not missed out on a great deal and I follow Boxing more closely then anything else.

This one clip below from this weeks RAW sums everything up, surprise appearance from Taker:

No one can get a reaction on that level, barring a few stars there isn't anyone that stands out in a way which would make you think they would fit in nicely in any era

 

[Suleiman]

Opinions on AEW?

 

[shaz619]

Going back to AEW, they have a deal with TNT in the US for a weekly show (For us in the UK it will be ITV), TNT for those who don't know were the previous distributor of Ted Turner's WCW product which received great exposure. AEW is also run by Tony Khan who is the son of Shahid Khan the billionaire business tycoon , so you can expect a decent amount of investment.

They ran their first PPV event yesterday and I feel it was largely well done. It didn't exactly try to re-invent the wheel like TNA in the early 2000's but their execution was very good as was the production, there were some sloppy moments in this regard and you're not going to expect a WWE level of presentation but I would still say they were solid.

Matches to look out for if you just want to catch the highlights:

Cody v Dustin - This was very emotionally charged and my personal favourite match of 2019, it was also Cody's best match I have ever seen, I tend to give him stick for his in-ring work but here he did very well, no one can deny his talent on the mic or as a character but in the ring he has not always delivered that main-event quality match on PPV but this time he did very well. Dustin is an experienced vet, pioneer and one hell of an all round performer, he really bought it to and for a man his age really hanged in there with a guy much younger.

Young Bucks / Lucha Brothers - This was basically a big spot fest, I think they took way too many risks then they needed to but it was a great for what it was and in this era the fans demand this style so you just take it with a pinch of salt but I think all involved are very talented regardless and it was a fun match to see, but they need to tone things down as the AEW schedule ramps up you don't want to be on the shelf.

Jericho / Omega - This was a solid main-event and both guys delivered, it was a challenging night for Omega because this was his first high profile match in North America in a long time and it will take him a while to adjust but he ought to get better with more experience, I always say North America is the toughest territory in the world and where you can really prove yourself. Jericho is a personified all time great and that just shows when he can compete at this level so far past his prime.

Moving forward, it will be a monumental challenge the weekly AEW telecasts and I look forward to seeing how they progress from here. Competition is good for wrestling. They have a decent roster and the right people behind the scenes involved with a lot of experience and that will help big time, was also great to hear Jim Ross on commentary again.

Ambrose signed a multi year deal with the company as well, a big catch without a doubt.

[MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION] that was just my thoughts on their debut PPV event which didn't have much of a build but just a one off show, it's all a part of the promotional work for the debut on TNT.

In other news Paul Heyman has been appointed in a director role for RAW while Eric Bischoff as a director for Smackdown recently

 

[shaykh]

My first exposure was during the attitude era but being a hardcore fan have followed the product from territory era when Flair put the industry on the map with incredible rivalries with the likes of Steamboat, Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes; yes absolutely no one can ever touch the combination of Heenan and Monsoon lol Heenan is the greatest manager in history and his commentary is arguably the greatest ever ) what a man, he would go an extra mile to get whatever he could over.

True, Mauro needs to tone that down; sometimes you can tell if it's organic or not. Damn, it's been a while since you watched, tbh you've not missed out on a great deal and I follow Boxing more closely then anything else.

This one clip below from this weeks RAW sums everything up, surprise appearance from Taker:

No one can get a reaction on that level, barring a few stars there isn't anyone that stands out in a way which would make you think they would fit in nicely in any era

Haha the Undertaker was my favourite growing up along with Shawn Michaels ...it's incredible how long these guys keep going on for...wasn't Flair still wrestling recently?...

Heenan for me is the best commentator imo in sports overall...i wanna see more of the 80s stuff cos apparently that was him truly in his prime...

Did you watch WCW too?...

 

[shaz619]

Haha the Undertaker was my favourite growing up along with Shawn Michaels ...it's incredible how long these guys keep going on for...wasn't Flair still wrestling recently?...

Heenan for me is the best commentator imo in sports overall...i wanna see more of the 80s stuff cos apparently that was him truly in his prime...

Did you watch WCW too?...

Flair has long retired I think it has been roughly 7-8 years now, he loved the business so much and I think he truly meant it when he said I will never retire, when the WWE sort of instigated it in the build up to mania 24 he was just so emotional, I don't think he was ready to leave; but Shawn Michaels gave him the ultimate send off, in a battle for the ages despite Flair being so old and way past it Shawn carried him to an all time classic that was voted the match of the century by PWI, very very emotionally charged encounter that, Flair put wrestling on the map and Shawn idolised him among many others - you can see how influential Flair is among pop culture in North America in general and inspired a lot of personas in combat sport as well. I go off on one sometimes when someone talks about Flair ) love the guy, he literally married the industry and dedicated himself 7 days a week sacrificing family/friends his schedule was nuts:

Unfortunately lately Flair has been having a number of health concerns, I hope he stays healthy

I wouldn't argue against that at all mate, Heenan was something special and one of a kind. I watched WCW a great deal to, was a massive fan of Sting, the NWO, Goldberg, Benoit, Jericho and Bret even though he was very disgruntled during that time

 

[QalandarFan]

Yo [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] have you heard the great news?!

Heyman and Bischoff are going to be head of the creative teams for Raw and Smackdown!!! I'm honestly pumped because I remember back in the early 2000's Smackdown was consisitently the better show because Heyman was the head writer back then. If there is anyone that can reignite Raw it's Paul Heyman. I always loved Bischoff too at times he can be a bit over adventurous but I really liked him as an on air character.

Oh boy this move is starting to bring back the Monday Night Wars vibe! Hopefully Vince gives these guys some freedom!

 

[QalandarFan]

I remember watching Raw this week and it was the first time I was watching Raw live in months. So I was so shocked I lost my mind when I saw the Undertaker surprise return, good week to watch I guess.

Also the best thing in WWE these days has been R Truth and the 24-7 Championship. ) So freaking entertaining I always make sure to keep up with those shenanigans on YouTube!

 

[QalandarFan]

Opinions on AEW?

Too early to say much, however, the hype surrounding it is massive. Their last PPV was pretty good although I'm not going to go overboard yet and say it's going to get as big as WCW and compete with WWE on that level. Wrestling back then was on another popularity level. Back then WCW and WWE were both getting 5+ million fans a week, at the same time.

These days albeit WWE producing rotten story-lines and garbage character development, WWE's flagship show is struggling to get above 2.5 million viewers. Even back in 2011 when the original brand split ended it was because WWE was dipping below 4.5 mil viewers now they ended it because they are below 2.5 mil viewers. Shows how the popularity of wrestling has dropped. Even now the last PPV WWE had 4,500 people show up that is unheard of for a WWE PPV although the PPV wasn't exactly in Chicago it was in Tacoma after all but still.

Wrestling will never reach the heights of the Monday Night Wars those were great times as a wrestling fan however, comparing AEW and WWE at this point is foolish. Their biggest draw at the end of the day is Y2J and Ambrose. WWE can deny it all they want but ratings will not go back up till they develop another face of the company. You look at the past eras and guys like Hogan, Austin, and even Cena single handedly could sell out arenas. WWE saying that "WWE is a brand now and no individual is greater than the brand" is all **. Because even back when Roman Reigns was being pushed at the top like a real star fact is people were watching and ratings were still over 3 million. Plus the only guy in WWE right now who can take Cena's role is Roman, and WWE shot themselves in the foot by having him lose to Brock so many times than once he did eventually win he unfortunately got Leukemia. Plus the way they have handled Roman since he has come back has been terrible. Right now WWE's biggest star is Becky Lynch and that says a lot her character is so annoying and she really walks around like she's Stone Cold. There is a reason Raw is barely getting 2 million viewers a week with guys like Seth Rollins who's good but not Heavyweight Championship material and Becky Lynch at the top.

Yes it is true that wrestling isn't as popular as it once use to be but just 2 years ago in the build to SummerSlam I remember the hot feud WWE had going on with the Brock/Braun/Roman/Joe Fatal 4-way that was probably the best booked feud in WWE in the past quite some time. It wasn't even Mania season and they were consistently drawing 3.5+ million viewers which shows how good booking can actually bring fans out to watch the show. 1 good main event feud is all it takes to get fans back into the product. For that however, you also need guys like Roman, Joe, AJ, Strowman, and Bryan at the top of the card people who have actually drawn.

 

[QalandarFan]

Someone tag me the day Seth Rollins loses the Universal Title, Roman Reigns actually has a good feud, Becky Lynch f's off with her annoying character, guys like Joe, Braun, Mysterio, Miz, etc are properly used!

Until then I will not watch another episode of Raw I watched this week and apart from the Taker return and the 24/7 stuff Raw was whack. I haven't watched SD since AJ left. Maybe with Bischoff and Heyman back things will change.

 

[shaz619]

Yo [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] have you heard the great news?!

Heyman and Bischoff are going to be head of the creative teams for Raw and Smackdown!!! I'm honestly pumped because I remember back in the early 2000's Smackdown was consisitently the better show because Heyman was the head writer back then. If there is anyone that can reignite Raw it's Paul Heyman. I always loved Bischoff too at times he can be a bit over adventurous but I really liked him as an on air character.

Oh boy this move is starting to bring back the Monday Night Wars vibe! Hopefully Vince gives these guys some freedom!

Only thing is how much creative influence will they actually get, if they get some freedom then it will make things very interesting; perhaps these two will know how to get through to Vince must better and filter all the rubbish out as much as possible - hopefully they are not just on-screen characters. If you remember, Heyman eventually fell out with Vince and was gone for a while primarily because of creative differences, lets hope it's not the same here. Bischoff is a pioneer and is a visionary himself, his main issue in the past were more on the business front and also giving control to wrestlers, but he's a very smart cookie and as an on-screen character as well was brilliant, my all time fav RAW GM

 

[QalandarFan]

The first Raw under Paul Heyman’s direction and oh boy did it deliver. For the first time in what feels like forever Raw actually felt important and we had progression.

The highlight of the night for me was the first match. Watching Strowman and Lashley rip away at each other in a Falls Count Anywhere match you just knew that Heyman had full control with that match. That match was from the man that brought us ECW. What a match it was. Heyman also knows Lashley from his rookie days so this match mad sense.

But things didn’t flatten out there. We had an amazing Undertaker moment. The New Days matches were good. And most importantly we finally got AJ to turn heel and reunite THE CLUB!!! If only WWE can get Finn Balor reunited with these guys oh boy this is going to be the most destructive faction in WWE. There are also rumours that Bischoff will start a new NWO on SDL. Having two factions like that on different brands will be a really smart and entertaining thing to do.

Overall Heyman’s first Raw delivered, and now I’m even more excited!!

 

[andy0204]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you need to watch this

 

[andy0204]

When Hunter n HBK wanted to ruin The Rock by making him lose his IC title to Bret, Bret denied victory n made it a DQ because he felt that would ruin a future star in Rock. Bret and SCSA have actually helped Rock

 

[sweep_shot]

I haven't watched WWE in a long time. I think I last watched it in 2012.

My favorite wrestlers at that time were HBK and Brock Lesnar.

 

[shaz619]

When Hunter n HBK wanted to ruin The Rock by making him lose his IC title to Bret, Bret denied victory n made it a DQ because he felt that would ruin a future star in Rock. Bret and SCSA have actually helped Rock

I will watch later, beyond that rumour there was also a story of heat between the two because hbk disrespected one of dwayne's family members. With regards to the IC title, I think that was more of HHH's idea then Shawns; just like the montreal screwjob