The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[BunnyRabbit]

Meltzer and Alvarez are deplorable to listen to on any level, Cornette deserves criticism for inventing the star rating system but he has an unreal eye for the intricacies of pro-wrestling on a technical level and picks up on things a normal observer wouldn’t be able to see and at least he wont put over the sex doll none sense. Those jap guys are good but vastly over rated at times, P4P Okada justifies that hype for me personally and his work reminds me a great deal of HBK, interestingly Okada idolises Shawn to

Okada, Ospreay and Zack Sabre Jr are the only 3 NJPW guys that I would go out of my way to watch. Jay White, Naito and Takagi are good as well. But calling Tanahashi as one of the greatest is a joke. Didn't Meltzer invent the star rating system?

I just remembered I almost burst out laughing when Meltzer said Evil and Sanada are much better wrestlers than the Undertaker.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The other thing am very much looking forward to is Taker’s speech at the HOF, I hoped he would be the only inductee this year but that will be a real tear jerker.

Can't say the same. HOF is something whose hype I have never really understood. Mostly because Trump and Snoop Dogg are part of it too. I'll check out his speech, which I'm sure will be great...but can't say its something I'm looking forward to.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] There's some twitter war going around over who would win a promo battle between MJF and The Rock. And the majority of the people on that thread think MJF would put "The Rock in his place".

Well this current breed of marks or the "IWC" or so that they call themselves probably don't know what The Rock was doing on the mic from 1998-2003. Literally killed Billy Gunn's singles' push with one promo where he was genuinely ****** off. Why is the current generation of marks or the simps of either promotion so volatile and literally takes nothing to get them triggered. It's almost becoming hooliganism since the supposed AEW and WWE war started.

The modern hipster smarks are pure aids, I’ve also seen them on social media put over a match between Ibushi and a sex doll, that’s the state of the current deranged IWC, deprived vermin. On the promo battle side of things, peak Rock was something else altogether, especially as a heel I enjoyed some of the greatest moments of his career. But! if we’re talking MJF as a heel in his peak vs Hollywood Dwayne (from around the time they were building to the rematch with Cena) I could see MJF roasting him to, I don’t know if Rock was deliberately mic shy during that brief period, Cena was that damn good or quiet simply the Rock had begun to take his acting experience a little too seriously in the wrestling world (especially if you look some of the old CM Punk shoots on how Rock wanted to do things as if he were on a Hollywood set), I wont say I enjoyed Rock promos for that one feud but it is very naive to use that example alone to look at the Rock’s overall pedigree on the mic

While the Rock is simply in a league of his own when it comes to being a complete package, the thing about The Rock is that all his stuff was essentially written by WWE writer Brain Gewirtz...from the Attitude Era all the way to when he returned for the match against Cena. He is The Rock's manager or something to this day. So I'm not sure what is the level of The Rock's actual promo skills. He could probably still come up with something cool...not sure. Its not a very good comparison imo.

The better comparison is to Piper...who both these guys would be annihilated by.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Okada, Ospreay and Zack Sabre Jr are the only 3 NJPW guys that I would go out of my way to watch. Jay White, Naito and Takagi are good as well. But calling Tanahashi as one of the greatest is a joke. Didn't Meltzer invent the star rating system?

I just remembered I almost burst out laughing when Meltzer said Evil and Sanada are much better wrestlers than the Undertaker.

Tanahashi has been past it for years. He gets way too much credit for being NJPW's top guy during the dark days. He has never been that good.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Meltzer and Alvarez are deplorable to listen to on any level, Cornette deserves criticism for inventing the star rating system but he has an unreal eye for the intricacies of pro-wrestling on a technical level and picks up on things a normal observer wouldn’t be able to see and at least he wont put over the sex doll none sense. Those jap guys are good but vastly over rated at times, P4P Okada justifies that hype for me personally and his work reminds me a great deal of HBK, interestingly Okada idolises Shawn to

I actually like Alvarez. He is much different from Dave and does not try to impose his opinions on others. Nor does he go out of his way to kiss AEW and TK's a*s like Meltzer. He also tends to analyze wrestling from the POV of logic whereas Dave's point always seems to be "yeah but its over with the crowd". Even if the the crowd comprises of 50 methheads who can't differentiate their arm from their leg.

Also enjoy Alvarez's rants which have died down now, but used to be a regular fixture on his show with Vinny during TNA' s heyday.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There's a theory that Dwayne was struggling in his hollywood years during that time and was just doing family oriented movies at the time he made that comeback. After he made that comeback, he got a new generation of young fans who would watch his tooth fairy type movies and help grow his hollywood career in return. As these fans grew into teens and adolescent, Dwayne moved towards action flicks like Fast and Furious etc and his fans naturally grew into his body of work in cinema. So this theory states that Dwayne played a highly calculated game back then to further his hollywood career by growing a new set of fans and increasing his worth even though he had to eventually lose to Cena. Dwayne, however, always stated that he returned to entertain his fans. I don't take Dwayne's 2011-13 run seriously. Let's see how he does if he returns to feud with Reigns. Rumor has it that he is going to return as a much more serious character to match the head of the table shtick.

Miz actually did say that Punk hates him for some reason. Punk even dissed Miz in a tweet back during a Saudi show after Miz quoted Punk's change the culture line in one of his promo.

Regarding Cena, I agree with everything you say. Extremely underrated on the mic and in ring as well. He always managed to keep himself immensely likeable even after all the boos and never let the heat get to him. He also managed to keep his personal life like living a heavy party life secret from his fans and never let his personal life create controversy. Cena is definitely one of the ATGs. Probably the only one to be the main guy of the company for well over a decade. Hogan, Austin and The Rock all did for considerably lesser time.

Punk has never been shy of expressing his opinion about the Miz. I think he did so in a WWE doc. too...not sure.

The brunt of it seems to stem from Punk not being happy over the fact that Miz main-evented WrestleMania 27 while someone like him was wrestling in the middle of the card in a match with very little heat. But this is just hearsay so I could be wrong.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

While the Rock is simply in a league of his own when it comes to being a complete package, the thing about The Rock is that all his stuff was essentially written by WWE writer Brain Gewirtz...from the Attitude Era all the way to when he returned for the match against Cena. He is The Rock's manager or something to this day. So I'm not sure what is the level of The Rock's actual promo skills. He could probably still come up with something cool...not sure. Its not a very good comparison imo.

The better comparison is to Piper...who both these guys would be annihilated by.

I don't know if all of what Dwayne said in his promos were written by someone else. He might have provided a few pointers or stuff but there was so much in The Rock's segments that was improvised. Like his interactions with Coachman to the dark promos/segments he did when shows would go off air.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know if all of what Dwayne said in his promos were written by someone else. He might have provided a few pointers or stuff but there was so much in The Rock's segments that was improvised. Like his interactions with Coachman to the dark promos/segments he did when shows would go off air.

Agree, a bit harsh to attribute Rocky’s success to that Gerwitz prat who I doubt helped him when he was Flex Kavana there’s a great deal of improvisation on his part, reinforced in the twilight of his peak as Hollywood Rock; watch the Hollywood Rock episode from the acclaimed RA series

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Agree, a bit harsh to attribute Rocky’s success to that Gerwitz prat who I doubt helped him when he was Flex Kavana there’s a great deal of improvisation on his part, reinforced in the twilight of his peak as Hollywood Rock; watch the Hollywood Rock episode from the acclaimed RA series

Have you seen the latest series from WWE? Dropped yesterday, its called WWE Evil and basically features 8 episodes on some of their favorite heels. Although some episodes like the one on The Miz feel incredibly forced...as if they are trying to shove their company propaganda down your throat, it also features episodes on Flair, Hollywood Hogan, Brothers of Destruction and Roman Reigns in his current incarnation.

Because its produced by Peacock the production quality is quite good...even better than their WWE Untold episodes. And it features some good talking heads like Heyman in certain episodes too.

Overall, I have to say I am really enjoying the influx of wrestling related documentaries that we've been getting for the past year or so. I am a massive fan of Dark Side of the Ring on VICE but WWE has produced some quality stuff too like the Biography series with A&E, aswell as their own documentary shows like RA, WWE Untold and now WWE Evil.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know if all of what Dwayne said in his promos were written by someone else. He might have provided a few pointers or stuff but there was so much in The Rock's segments that was improvised. Like his interactions with Coachman to the dark promos/segments he did when shows would go off air.

Agree, a bit harsh to attribute Rocky’s success to that Gerwitz prat who I doubt helped him when he was Flex Kavana there’s a great deal of improvisation on his part, reinforced in the twilight of his peak as Hollywood Rock; watch the Hollywood Rock episode from the acclaimed RA series

Yeah okay fair enough. The Rock is one of the all-time best promos in the history of the business. As well as someone who had an intimate knowledge and understanding of the business having grown up in it. No way Gewirtz was writing his promos. I came across some of his old promos the other day while watching an old WWE DVD and there's no way anyone other than The Rock came up with that stuff. So I concede I might have been misled on that one.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] the build up to this year's mania week is even weaker than Mania 36 which was hampered due to pandemic. Like there isn't really a reason to get excited about Mania this year. Roman-Brock has already headlined Mania twice before. Finn Balor and Ricochet aren't even on the card.
There's Logan Paul and Johnny Knoxville in matches. Edge seems to be the only one who has done his best to invest crowd in his feud with AJ. And that is easily going to be the best match this Mania (unless it is booked horrifically). Pat Macafee vs Austin Theory is one match that has the potential to be much better than it should be cause Pat is a freak athlete and Austin Theory is quite underrated.

On NXT side of things, I didn't even know they had Stand and Deliver this week as well as NXT is just not interesting anymore. Ciampa's farewell match on NXT is going to be a bummer with that Tony guy in a non existing feud. Plus Tony isn't even that believable of a wrestler. The 5 way ladder match for North American Championship is going to be the best match of the event considering the talent involved.

 

[shaz619]

Have you seen the latest series from WWE? Dropped yesterday, its called WWE Evil and basically features 8 episodes on some of their favorite heels. Although some episodes like the one on The Miz feel incredibly forced...as if they are trying to shove their company propaganda down your throat, it also features episodes on Flair, Hollywood Hogan, Brothers of Destruction and Roman Reigns in his current incarnation.

Because its produced by Peacock the production quality is quite good...even better than their WWE Untold episodes. And it features some good talking heads like Heyman in certain episodes too.

Overall, I have to say I am really enjoying the influx of wrestling related documentaries that we've been getting for the past year or so. I am a massive fan of Dark Side of the Ring on VICE but WWE has produced some quality stuff too like the Biography series with A&E, aswell as their own documentary shows like RA, WWE Untold and now WWE Evil.

I’ve not checked that out may do so soon I sort of avoided it when they put Sasha Banks on the list I think, no disrespect to her but come on man.

Having said that, I agree the Network’s archive footage is truly breathtaking and their documentaries are incredible. I keep banging on about it but that WWE 24 episode of Angle deserved an Emmy, I loved the Last Ride Series to and even the animated stuff they’ve produced which is hilarious. The untold series are pretty cool to I saw the one between Angle/HBK, always wondered why it took so long for them to cover that masterpiece, RA series is great and especially the old DVD’s they released, I’ve seen the one on Ric highly recommended, the rivalries edition on HBK/Shawn where both sit with JR and the ECW documentary, so much content not had chance to visit it in a while though

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] the build up to this year's mania week is even weaker than Mania 36 which was hampered due to pandemic. Like there isn't really a reason to get excited about Mania this year. Roman-Brock has already headlined Mania twice before. Finn Balor and Ricochet aren't even on the card.
There's Logan Paul and Johnny Knoxville in matches. Edge seems to be the only one who has done his best to invest crowd in his feud with AJ. And that is easily going to be the best match this Mania (unless it is booked horrifically). Pat Macafee vs Austin Theory is one match that has the potential to be much better than it should be cause Pat is a freak athlete and Austin Theory is quite underrated.

On NXT side of things, I didn't even know they had Stand and Deliver this week as well as NXT is just not interesting anymore. Ciampa's farewell match on NXT is going to be a bummer with that Tony guy in a non existing feud. Plus Tony isn't even that believable of a wrestler. The 5 way ladder match for North American Championship is going to be the best match of the event considering the talent involved.

I agree am not excited, lazy effort with Edge/AJ, they’ve done ok to build Ronda/Charlotte and Reigns/Brock while it has happened before am intrigued due to how much they’ve invested in the match plus Reigns is at his peak now imo, this is the only match they seem to give a damn about. With the rest, they are coasting due to their network subscribers; the network is a blessing and a curse, I do miss the days when they were forced to sell PPV’s and tried a lot harder, one of the reasons AEW has been better

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] the build up to this year's mania week is even weaker than Mania 36 which was hampered due to pandemic. Like there isn't really a reason to get excited about Mania this year. Roman-Brock has already headlined Mania twice before. Finn Balor and Ricochet aren't even on the card.
There's Logan Paul and Johnny Knoxville in matches. Edge seems to be the only one who has done his best to invest crowd in his feud with AJ. And that is easily going to be the best match this Mania (unless it is booked horrifically). Pat Macafee vs Austin Theory is one match that has the potential to be much better than it should be cause Pat is a freak athlete and Austin Theory is quite underrated.

On NXT side of things, I didn't even know they had Stand and Deliver this week as well as NXT is just not interesting anymore. Ciampa's farewell match on NXT is going to be a bummer with that Tony guy in a non existing feud. Plus Tony isn't even that believable of a wrestler. The 5 way ladder match for North American Championship is going to be the best match of the event considering the talent involved.

Yeah highly underwhelming build. Brock v Roman is the only match they have been building since last year. And honestly it excites me, as opposed to the last two times, when Roman was a joke being shoved down everyone's throats that wasn't taken seriously by anyone. But other than that, its slim pickings.

Owens v Austin---whatever that's going to be---makes no sense. KO hates Texas so he wants to beat up old man Austin who has been retired for 19 years? Credit to KO for doing his best and whatever schmoz they have should be fun, but the angle makes no sense. Ditto with Edge v AJ...what's Edge's motivation? To have a WrestleMania moment? He's had like 50 that he won't ever top from spearing Jeff Hardy off a ladder to putting Mick Foley through a flaming table. Don't get me wrong the match excites me. But the angle has zero heat besides Edge doing his fake af Conchairtos on AJ for reasons I still have not fully understood.

And are we really supposed to believe that Seth Rollins can't get a match at WrestleMania but Rick Boogs can?

WWE's booking is so far gone that honestly its probably best to stop trying to make sense of any of it and be happy with what you get. And yeah, its an absolute joke that two guys as talented as Ricochet and Balor...who are the IC and US Champs no less, aren't even on the card, but the Women's Tag Team Champions are.

Also yeah, MacAfee v Theory could be pretty good too. MacAfee is seriously underrated and was amazing (for a non-wrestler) in both his previous matches. And Theory is a hell of worker and easily one of the biggest rising stars in wrestling today. I'd be shocked if he isn't at the tippy top of this company a few years from now. Plus, that feud actually does have some decent build-up as opposed to most matches on the card.

I'd say I'm looking forward to:

- Roman v Brock
- Edge v AJ
- KO-Austin
- MacAfee v Theory
- Rollins-Cody

And that's about it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree am not excited, lazy effort with Edge/AJ, they’ve done ok to build Ronda/Charlotte and Reigns/Brock while it has happened before am intrigued due to how much they’ve invested in the match plus Reigns is at his peak now imo, this is the only match they seem to give a damn about. With the rest, they are coasting due to their network subscribers; the network is a blessing and a curse, I do miss the days when they were forced to sell PPV’s and tried a lot harder, one of the reasons AEW has been better

I feel like they've given up trying to build up PPVs at all unless they aren't one of the Big 4 or Money in the Bank. And this has been true most of all in the past two years. Pre-pandemic I felt like they were on an upswing. WrestleMania 36 had some great matches with great builds. Then the pandemic hit and since then the product has been utter trash. Besides Roman and a few other specific angles/feuds, WWE has been really bad for quite some time now. And it doesn't look like they seem to care.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah highly underwhelming build. Brock v Roman is the only match they have been building since last year. And honestly it excites me, as opposed to the last two times, when Roman was a joke being shoved down everyone's throats that wasn't taken seriously by anyone. But other than that, its slim pickings.

Owens v Austin---whatever that's going to be---makes no sense. KO hates Texas so he wants to beat up old man Austin who has been retired for 19 years? Credit to KO for doing his best and whatever schmoz they have should be fun, but the angle makes no sense. Ditto with Edge v AJ...what's Edge's motivation? To have a WrestleMania moment? He's had like 50 that he won't ever top from spearing Jeff Hardy off a ladder to putting Mick Foley through a flaming table. Don't get me wrong the match excites me. But the angle has zero heat besides Edge doing his fake af Conchairtos on AJ for reasons I still have not fully understood.

And are we really supposed to believe that Seth Rollins can't get a match at WrestleMania but Rick Boogs can?

WWE's booking is so far gone that honestly its probably best to stop trying to make sense of any of it and be happy with what you get. And yeah, its an absolute joke that two guys as talented as Ricochet and Balor...who are the IC and US Champs no less, aren't even on the card, but the Women's Tag Team Champions are.

Also yeah, MacAfee v Theory could be pretty good too. MacAfee is seriously underrated and was amazing (for a non-wrestler) in both his previous matches. And Theory is a hell of worker and easily one of the biggest rising stars in wrestling today. I'd be shocked if he isn't at the tippy top of this company a few years from now. Plus, that feud actually does have some decent build-up as opposed to most matches on the card.

I'd say I'm looking forward to:

- Roman v Brock
- Edge v AJ
- KO-Austin
- MacAfee v Theory
- Rollins-Cody

And that's about it.

Lesnar-Reigns have a good angle etc and better characters this time around but the thing is we have seen the match so many times before like Roman and Lesnar have wrestled each other like 7-8 times already that the in ring action doesn't excite me anymore which is totally opposite to AJ-Edge as it's been done with a poor storyline but it hasn't happened before and the wrestling style of both guys should mesh up perfectly. I think Edge's heel turn was long overdue as Edge has always loved being a heel and the crowd would have started turning on him had he started going after the top title again(another question of when and not if) plus face-face feud rarely ever delivers taking into account the target audience of WWE(kids basically)

I think KO would simply be chuffed to job to Austin and let's face it, who doesn't want to get beaten by someone like Austin. It will at most be a 2-3min impromptu match like Rock-Rowan with Austin doing his signature moves.

I don't know how much Rollins-Cody would deliver. On one hand, Cody should beat Rollins easily for his grand return or Vince would do his beat the rival company's ex star like HHH vs Sting. There isn't going to be anything in between.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I agree am not excited, lazy effort with Edge/AJ, they’ve done ok to build Ronda/Charlotte and Reigns/Brock while it has happened before am intrigued due to how much they’ve invested in the match plus Reigns is at his peak now imo, this is the only match they seem to give a damn about. With the rest, they are coasting due to their network subscribers; the network is a blessing and a curse, I do miss the days when they were forced to sell PPV’s and tried a lot harder, one of the reasons AEW has been better

I think Charlotte has reached that point in her life that she will never be seen as a face. She's like literally a worse version of Roman's push of terror. Plus there's no proper storyline in Ronda-Charlotte feud. Like Ronda was pinned by Becky, she should be going after her.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I feel like they've given up trying to build up PPVs at all unless they aren't one of the Big 4 or Money in the Bank. And this has been true most of all in the past two years. Pre-pandemic I felt like they were on an upswing. WrestleMania 36 had some great matches with great builds. Then the pandemic hit and since then the product has been utter trash. Besides Roman and a few other specific angles/feuds, WWE has been really bad for quite some time now. And it doesn't look like they seem to care.

Drew-Lesnar and Edge-Randy had some of the best build ups of the recent years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’ve not checked that out may do so soon I sort of avoided it when they put Sasha Banks on the list I think, no disrespect to her but come on man.

Having said that, I agree the Network’s archive footage is truly breathtaking and their documentaries are incredible. I keep banging on about it but that WWE 24 episode of Angle deserved an Emmy, I loved the Last Ride Series to and even the animated stuff they’ve produced which is hilarious. The untold series are pretty cool to I saw the one between Angle/HBK, always wondered why it took so long for them to cover that masterpiece, RA series is great and especially the old DVD’s they released, I’ve seen the one on Ric highly recommended, the rivalries edition on HBK/Shawn where both sit with JR and the ECW documentary, so much content not had chance to visit it in a while though

Honestly, I'd say skip the Sasha Banks, Stephanie McMahon and The Miz episodes. Miz episode is probably the worst. Yet again, they are trying to make us believe that The Miz is the most dastardly heel of the modern era rather than just an idiot trying to play wrestler. The amount of B.S pandering to The Miz by certain talking heads in this episode is simply insane. The Stephanie McMahon episode was laughable to me just because of how tone-deaf it felt. You had Steph saying stuff like: "I had to earn everything in this company" and "I have never been intimidated by corporate bigwigs in meetings despite being the only female there"....utterly laughable and tone-deaf company propaganda.

That said, the episode on Hollywood Hulk Hogan is brilliant. The episode on Flair is excellent. There's one on Reigns' current gimmick that I'm sure will be great. And the other two episodes are on Orton and Brothers of Destruction which also should be good. So I would recommend picking and choosing.

Yeah agreed. WWE Untold was probably my favorite series of theirs. And RA was good too, although wasn't crazy about the latest season. Would recommend checking out the Biography series too if you haven't gotten a chance. It basically caps the careers/lives of WWE legends. In the first season they did Austin, Bret, Savage, Shawn, Piper, Foley and Booker T. Really well-done with some off-the-cuff comments too from certain people. Because A&E made it, they probably had some creative freedom to tell the truth and not necessarily toe the company line.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Lesnar-Reigns have a good angle etc and better characters this time around but the thing is we have seen the match so many times before like Roman and Lesnar have wrestled each other like 7-8 times already that the in ring action doesn't excite me anymore which is totally opposite to AJ-Edge as it's been done with a poor storyline but it hasn't happened before and the wrestling style of both guys should mesh up perfectly. I think Edge's heel turn was long overdue as Edge has always loved being a heel and the crowd would have started turning on him had he started going after the top title again(another question of when and not if) plus face-face feud rarely ever delivers taking into account the target audience of WWE(kids basically)

I think KO would simply be chuffed to job to Austin and let's face it, who doesn't want to get beaten by someone like Austin. It will at most be a 2-3min impromptu match like Rock-Rowan with Austin doing his signature moves.

I don't know how much Rollins-Cody would deliver. On one hand, Cody should beat Rollins easily for his grand return or Vince would do his beat the rival company's ex star like HHH vs Sting. There isn't going to be anything in between.

I get what you mean. But I feel it will be different this time because Reigns is on Lesnar's level now whereas previously he was this supposedly underdog babyface fighting from underneath. They can't possibly do worse than WrestleMania 34, which has to go down as one of the all-time worst PPV main-events. Very rarely have I seen a WrestleMania match with that kind of go-away heat. And the WrestleMania 31 match was essentially booked the same way but was saved by Rollins's cash-in. I know they did a match in Saudi last year too but that was just them hotshotting their Saudi show. Plus it went like 14 minutes and had a B.S finish from what I remember.

Yeah I was getting kinda sick of Edge's babyface run. A large part of it may have been the feud with Miz. He's obviously great as both a heel and a babyface. And probably still as over as he ever was. But the guy is a natural heel. Still trying to grasp what his new gimmick is all about, but it is what it is. Atleast he is wrestling AJ at Mania.

They're saying it might go 7-8 minutes and close the show. And honestly, with the kind of uninspired and dull crap that's on this show, I'm down for it.

I think the latter would be a remarkably stupid move, even for WWE standards. Regardless of how Cody's current run ends up, fact is people are excited to see him re-debut. They know it, otherwise they wouldn't be dropping hints on RAW like 'Rollins dreams have been dashed, and have turned into a nightmare'...they can't possibly be stupid enough to bury the guy in his first match back. My guess is that he will pull a Hardy Boyz and just show up at Mania. I think the Taker-Cena match from few years back also had something similar with Taker showing up on the day of WrestleMania.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] the build up to this year's mania week is even weaker than Mania 36 which was hampered due to pandemic. Like there isn't really a reason to get excited about Mania this year. Roman-Brock has already headlined Mania twice before. Finn Balor and Ricochet aren't even on the card.
There's Logan Paul and Johnny Knoxville in matches. Edge seems to be the only one who has done his best to invest crowd in his feud with AJ. And that is easily going to be the best match this Mania (unless it is booked horrifically). Pat Macafee vs Austin Theory is one match that has the potential to be much better than it should be cause Pat is a freak athlete and Austin Theory is quite underrated.

On NXT side of things, I didn't even know they had Stand and Deliver this week as well as NXT is just not interesting anymore. Ciampa's farewell match on NXT is going to be a bummer with that Tony guy in a non existing feud. Plus Tony isn't even that believable of a wrestler. The 5 way ladder match for North American Championship is going to be the best match of the event considering the talent involved.

re: NXT. Honestly its sad to see what NXT has become. Its basically a cartoon show that sometimes has good wrestling on it. And that too because of guys like WALTER, Roderick Strong, Ciampa. The PPV seems to be focused almost entirely on Breakker winning the belt back. Which I'm sure will be a great moment...DZ will probably do a good job of putting him over too. I am interested in WALTER v LA Knight. Which could be a pretty good match. But other than that, I can't say anything here interests me. I don't like Tony D'Angelo...he's another one of those over-the-top cartoon characters they added to seemingly make the show more palatable for younger audiences or something. I can't take him seriously at all. And although the Ladder match has the potential to be good, its loaded with green/underneath talent...which doesn't fill me with alot of faith.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

From a wrestling stand-point WrestleMania weekend should be pretty cool though.

Besides two nights of WrestleMania, NXT: Stand & Deliver and barring the IMPACT and GCW PPVs that nobody cares about; ROH is also doing Supercard of Honor, which is going to be the first ROH PPV under Tony Khan's ownership. And TK has already booked the ultimate tag-team dream match: FTR v The Briscoes which should be enough of a reason to buy the PPV. But even if it isn't there's, Bandido v Gresham too, which has the potential to be very good. Jay Lethal v Lee Moriarty and Josh Woods v Wheeler Yuta could be good matches too. Tony has also said he has a surprise or two up his sleeve for the PPV, and that he is going to announce more matches in the coming days.

For me though, FTR v Briscoes is probably the match I am most looking forward to this weekend after Reigns v Lesnar. So I wouldn't even mind is the rest of the PPV is garbage as long as those guys get a good 20+ minutes.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Just saw a goofy skit where Rollins came to Vince's office to get his WrestleMania match and got it, against an opponent of Vince's choosing who will be revealed when Seth is 'in the ring' at WrestleMania.

Apart from the fact the Vince looked like a freaking zombie in this who could barely move his eyes or lips, this pretty much confirms imo that Cody will show up at Mania.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah highly underwhelming build. Brock v Roman is the only match they have been building since last year. And honestly it excites me, as opposed to the last two times, when Roman was a joke being shoved down everyone's throats that wasn't taken seriously by anyone. But other than that, its slim pickings.

Owens v Austin---whatever that's going to be---makes no sense. KO hates Texas so he wants to beat up old man Austin who has been retired for 19 years? Credit to KO for doing his best and whatever schmoz they have should be fun, but the angle makes no sense. Ditto with Edge v AJ...what's Edge's motivation? To have a WrestleMania moment? He's had like 50 that he won't ever top from spearing Jeff Hardy off a ladder to putting Mick Foley through a flaming table. Don't get me wrong the match excites me. But the angle has zero heat besides Edge doing his fake af Conchairtos on AJ for reasons I still have not fully understood.

And are we really supposed to believe that Seth Rollins can't get a match at WrestleMania but Rick Boogs can?

WWE's booking is so far gone that honestly its probably best to stop trying to make sense of any of it and be happy with what you get. And yeah, its an absolute joke that two guys as talented as Ricochet and Balor...who are the IC and US Champs no less, aren't even on the card, but the Women's Tag Team Champions are.

Also yeah, MacAfee v Theory could be pretty good too. MacAfee is seriously underrated and was amazing (for a non-wrestler) in both his previous matches. And Theory is a hell of worker and easily one of the biggest rising stars in wrestling today. I'd be shocked if he isn't at the tippy top of this company a few years from now. Plus, that feud actually does have some decent build-up as opposed to most matches on the card.

I'd say I'm looking forward to:

- Roman v Brock
- Edge v AJ
- KO-Austin
- MacAfee v Theory
- Rollins-Cody

And that's about it.

I thought the KO/Austin stuff has been done well, I never expected it to be a match, it will be more in the mould of Piper’s Pit at WM21, that was bigger for obvious reasons but this is filler which I don’t have an issue with. At first I wondered why KO? but then thought, it must 100% be due to Austin requesting to work with him and he’s quiet particular about what to do creatively so I trust him on that front as well.

Overall they’ve done a poor job building the card and they’ve become lazy due to guaranteed ticket sales and network subscribers, Wrestlemania itself is the draw and when you watch it in attendance or perhaps live, without taking it too seriously it’s a great spectacle but it’s been a while since we’ve seen a proper WM classic match. If I had tickets I’d be happy with the two nights providing each event is not 10 hours long like in the past

 

[shaz619]

re: NXT. Honestly its sad to see what NXT has become. Its basically a cartoon show that sometimes has good wrestling on it. And that too because of guys like WALTER, Roderick Strong, Ciampa. The PPV seems to be focused almost entirely on Breakker winning the belt back. Which I'm sure will be a great moment...DZ will probably do a good job of putting him over too. I am interested in WALTER v LA Knight. Which could be a pretty good match. But other than that, I can't say anything here interests me. I don't like Tony D'Angelo...he's another one of those over-the-top cartoon characters they added to seemingly make the show more palatable for younger audiences or something. I can't take him seriously at all. And although the Ladder match has the potential to be good, its loaded with green/underneath talent...which doesn't fill me with alot of faith.

I also feel another reason Vince has done this is out of concern for HHH’s health who will be forced to take a backseat now, his workload was crazy previously. It was a bit upsetting watching his interview with ESPN even though am not his biggest fan for living through the AE/RA eras and the reign of terror especially

 

[shaz619]

Drew-Lesnar and Edge-Randy had some of the best build ups of the recent years.

What a shame about Drew, going from that to this, he is back to being a mid carder now isn’t he when the guy has literally every tool to be the next big baby face. I thoroughly enjoyed the build to those two matches, and I was tearing up during that backlash match between Orton/Edge due to the ring psychology and story - when these guys get it right, no one does it better

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I get what you mean. But I feel it will be different this time because Reigns is on Lesnar's level now whereas previously he was this supposedly underdog babyface fighting from underneath. They can't possibly do worse than WrestleMania 34, which has to go down as one of the all-time worst PPV main-events. Very rarely have I seen a WrestleMania match with that kind of go-away heat. And the WrestleMania 31 match was essentially booked the same way but was saved by Rollins's cash-in. I know they did a match in Saudi last year too but that was just them hotshotting their Saudi show. Plus it went like 14 minutes and had a B.S finish from what I remember.

Yeah I was getting kinda sick of Edge's babyface run. A large part of it may have been the feud with Miz. He's obviously great as both a heel and a babyface. And probably still as over as he ever was. But the guy is a natural heel. Still trying to grasp what his new gimmick is all about, but it is what it is. Atleast he is wrestling AJ at Mania.

They're saying it might go 7-8 minutes and close the show. And honestly, with the kind of uninspired and dull crap that's on this show, I'm down for it.

I think the latter would be a remarkably stupid move, even for WWE standards. Regardless of how Cody's current run ends up, fact is people are excited to see him re-debut. They know it, otherwise they wouldn't be dropping hints on RAW like 'Rollins dreams have been dashed, and have turned into a nightmare'...they can't possibly be stupid enough to bury the guy in his first match back. My guess is that he will pull a Hardy Boyz and just show up at Mania. I think the Taker-Cena match from few years back also had something similar with Taker showing up on the day of WrestleMania.

Yes but they had built up Sting much better and even gave him a big big return on Survivor Series and Sting was getting the biggest pops yet still in his first match in WWE(at Mania nonetheless), they had him lose to Trips with a pathetic finish. Vince is a weird man.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What a shame about Drew, going from that to this, he is back to being a mid carder now isn’t he when the guy has literally every tool to be the next big baby face. I thoroughly enjoyed the build to those two matches, and I was tearing up during that backlash match between Orton/Edge due to the ring psychology and story - when these guys get it right, no one does it better

Think Drew is still being protected even though he is being booked into obscurity. He was unnecessarily made to put over Big E in an inconsequential mini feud. Think he'll get a good push soon as Roman doesn't have an opponent after Mania.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

re: NXT. Honestly its sad to see what NXT has become. Its basically a cartoon show that sometimes has good wrestling on it. And that too because of guys like WALTER, Roderick Strong, Ciampa. The PPV seems to be focused almost entirely on Breakker winning the belt back. Which I'm sure will be a great moment...DZ will probably do a good job of putting him over too. I am interested in WALTER v LA Knight. Which could be a pretty good match. But other than that, I can't say anything here interests me. I don't like Tony D'Angelo...he's another one of those over-the-top cartoon characters they added to seemingly make the show more palatable for younger audiences or something. I can't take him seriously at all. And although the Ladder match has the potential to be good, its loaded with green/underneath talent...which doesn't fill me with alot of faith.

I think the A Kid has tons of potential, he is as crisp as they come when it comes to in ring technicality. There was this recent match of Grayson Waller vs A Kid which was the only match I saw and it was surprisingly very old NXTish although was short in length. That match actually helped show Waller's in ring capability as well, as he's been made to hide behind his gimmick so far without doing much in the ring. Think Carmelo Hayes is the best wrestler from the nxt 2.0 crop. He would have had a very good run in black and gold nxt as well. Plus there's Santos Escobar who's been the most consistent wrestler over the last year and one of Cameron Grimes, Roderick Strong(another old nxt guy) or A Kid(an indie product i just told you about).

LA Knight is great(but I think more suited to main roster although I am afraid he would end up in Ziggler/Roode/Corbin vortex) but not sure how they're going to book it with Prichard being the head. Walter is IMO one of the best wrestlers in the world when it comes to having good matches.

I think they're going to rename Breakker as Bronson Steiner at Stand and Deliver. He has even changed his name on twitter and now steiner bros are being inducted into hof.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I also feel another reason Vince has done this is out of concern for HHH’s health who will be forced to take a backseat now, his workload was crazy previously. It was a bit upsetting watching his interview with ESPN even though am not his biggest fan for living through the AE/RA eras and the reign of terror especially

Nah NXT got rebranded before Trips got sick. Trips sickness was acute. Think Trips has failed in Vince's eyes to become a money generating booker.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I get what you mean. But I feel it will be different this time because Reigns is on Lesnar's level now whereas previously he was this supposedly underdog babyface fighting from underneath. They can't possibly do worse than WrestleMania 34, which has to go down as one of the all-time worst PPV main-events. Very rarely have I seen a WrestleMania match with that kind of go-away heat. And the WrestleMania 31 match was essentially booked the same way but was saved by Rollins's cash-in. I know they did a match in Saudi last year too but that was just them hotshotting their Saudi show. Plus it went like 14 minutes and had a B.S finish from what I remember.

Yeah I was getting kinda sick of Edge's babyface run. A large part of it may have been the feud with Miz. He's obviously great as both a heel and a babyface. And probably still as over as he ever was. But the guy is a natural heel. Still trying to grasp what his new gimmick is all about, but it is what it is. Atleast he is wrestling AJ at Mania.

They're saying it might go 7-8 minutes and close the show. And honestly, with the kind of uninspired and dull crap that's on this show, I'm down for it.

I think the latter would be a remarkably stupid move, even for WWE standards. Regardless of how Cody's current run ends up, fact is people are excited to see him re-debut. They know it, otherwise they wouldn't be dropping hints on RAW like 'Rollins dreams have been dashed, and have turned into a nightmare'...they can't possibly be stupid enough to bury the guy in his first match back. My guess is that he will pull a Hardy Boyz and just show up at Mania. I think the Taker-Cena match from few years back also had something similar with Taker showing up on the day of WrestleMania.

I am actually curious as to how they would end the Mania. I have a feeling The Rock might crash Roman's post match celebrations and give him a Rock Bottom and People's Elbow.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes but they had built up Sting much better and even gave him a big big return on Survivor Series and Sting was getting the biggest pops yet still in his first match in WWE(at Mania nonetheless), they had him lose to Trips with a pathetic finish. Vince is a weird man.

That might have been HHH's influence at play. We all know HHH has always loved beating/burying ex-WCW guys. And Sting was one former WCW top guy he never got the chance to bury.

Again, I understand your point. Sometimes there is absolutely no logic or common sense behind Vince's booking decisions. A better example would probably be having AJ lose in his first WrestleMania match to Jericho. But even he shouldn't be stupid enough to beat Cody here. Cody is probably going to get a massive pop when he debuts at Mania and it would be a massive buzzkill if the result of that match is anything other than Cody winning.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What a shame about Drew, going from that to this, he is back to being a mid carder now isn’t he when the guy has literally every tool to be the next big baby face. I thoroughly enjoyed the build to those two matches, and I was tearing up during that backlash match between Orton/Edge due to the ring psychology and story - when these guys get it right, no one does it better

If Vince has any braincells remaining he will book McIntyre to end Reigns' reign of terror. With Lashley going babyface there will probably be a strong inclination towards going with him. But I really think they should go with McIntyre and use him beating Roman to reestablish him as a top babyface.

I do hate the idiotic sword stuff that McIntyre indulges in though. Its so fake and stupid. Are we seriously supposed to believe that he is going to use a sword on someone?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am actually curious as to how they would end the Mania. I have a feeling The Rock might crash Roman's post match celebrations and give him a Rock Bottom and People's Elbow.

Oooh yeah. Now that you mention it, I think that could be a major possibility.

...and a good way to send the people home happy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I also feel another reason Vince has done this is out of concern for HHH’s health who will be forced to take a backseat now, his workload was crazy previously. It was a bit upsetting watching his interview with ESPN even though am not his biggest fan for living through the AE/RA eras and the reign of terror especially

Nah NXT got rebranded before Trips got sick. Trips sickness was acute. Think Trips has failed in Vince's eyes to become a money generating booker.

I think AEW beating NXT in the ratings and subsequently getting them to shift back to Tuesday nights probably had a bigger impact than people give AEW credit for. It makes total sense to me that Vince saw that as Hunter getting beaten by the competition. And that likely changed Hunter's perception in Vince's eyes.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I thought the KO/Austin stuff has been done well, I never expected it to be a match, it will be more in the mould of Piper’s Pit at WM21, that was bigger for obvious reasons but this is filler which I don’t have an issue with. At first I wondered why KO? but then thought, it must 100% be due to Austin requesting to work with him and he’s quiet particular about what to do creatively so I trust him on that front as well.

Overall they’ve done a poor job building the card and they’ve become lazy due to guaranteed ticket sales and network subscribers, Wrestlemania itself is the draw and when you watch it in attendance or perhaps live, without taking it too seriously it’s a great spectacle but it’s been a while since we’ve seen a proper WM classic match. If I had tickets I’d be happy with the two nights providing each event is not 10 hours long like in the past

I have actually loved the work that KO has done with the feud. And his promo this week on the go-home RAW was probably the best one yet. But the initial premise for me was really stupid and contrived: I hate Texas so I'm going to call out Stone Cold.

And I actually think that this KO Show segment will be bigger. Because certain people have said that it will close the show. And honestly who on that card is topping the pop Austin is going to get in Texas? Certainly not Charlotte and Ronda...

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think the A Kid has tons of potential, he is as crisp as they come when it comes to in ring technicality. There was this recent match of Grayson Waller vs A Kid which was the only match I saw and it was surprisingly very old NXTish although was short in length. That match actually helped show Waller's in ring capability as well, as he's been made to hide behind his gimmick so far without doing much in the ring. Think Carmelo Hayes is the best wrestler from the nxt 2.0 crop. He would have had a very good run in black and gold nxt as well. Plus there's Santos Escobar who's been the most consistent wrestler over the last year and one of Cameron Grimes, Roderick Strong(another old nxt guy) or A Kid(an indie product i just told you about).

LA Knight is great(but I think more suited to main roster although I am afraid he would end up in Ziggler/Roode/Corbin vortex) but not sure how they're going to book it with Prichard being the head. Walter is IMO one of the best wrestlers in the world when it comes to having good matches.

I think they're going to rename Breakker as Bronson Steiner at Stand and Deliver. He has even changed his name on twitter and now steiner bros are being inducted into hof.

I dunno man. I'm not so high on some of these guys as you are. A-Kid has street cred based on his work in NXT UK and the indies. Haven't seen him wrestle so can't really say anything about him. But Escobar, Waller, Hayes, Grimes...can't say any of those guys impress me. Waller to me is another Miz in the making. I just hope he won't wrestle like a coward when he develops into a fully-formed product, even if he sounds like someone desperately trying to play wrestler.

Yeah agree on LA Knight. He's so good in both the ring and on the mic that he almost seems destined to get lost in the shuffle on the main-roster.

WALTER is one of those guys that just looks and feels real. In alot of ways he is a throwback to old school strongman wrestlers. And honestly, when I watch his matches I always find myself saying (to myself) that these matches could have worked in literally any era. Could have worked in the 1940s, the 70s, the 90s and work even well in the modern day because of how distinct they are from everything else.

That's good to hear. Common sense prevails at last. I would have liked Rex Steiner even more just because its a more catchy and marketable name. But Bronson Steiner works too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Btw what did you guys make of old Scotty Steiner getting inducted in the HOF? I understand it from WWE's POV...they probably want to be on good terms with the Steiners considering the plans they have for Rick's son, but it is still hilarious considering some of the things Scott has said about WWE, Triple H and the HOF.

And I actually agree with almost everything he has said until now. But I imagine old Scott is in for some awkward meet-ups at WrestleMania weekend.

Btw if you guys haven't heard his most recent comments, would recommend you guys to hear them. He made them about 2 years ago and buried everything from the HOF to WWE to HHH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_mdlj1Q9Y

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Btw what did you guys make of old Scotty Steiner getting inducted in the HOF? I understand it from WWE's POV...they probably want to be on good terms with the Steiners considering the plans they have for Rick's son, but it is still hilarious considering some of the things Scott has said about WWE, Triple H and the HOF.

And I actually agree with almost everything he has said until now. But I imagine old Scott is in for some awkward meet-ups at WrestleMania weekend.

Btw if you guys haven't heard his most recent comments, would recommend you guys to hear them. He made them about 2 years ago and buried everything from the HOF to WWE to HHH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_mdlj1Q9Y

lol I know scott steiner legit hates wwe. hogan and trips. He even once said he wanted to kill hogan.
I think scott's a nut job. He was known for being full of himself back in the day as well plus he has also had a history of being a big locker room bully.

But i think steiner bros is a good enough tag team to be in hof. A lot of names in hof don't deserve to be there.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno man. I'm not so high on some of these guys as you are. A-Kid has street cred based on his work in NXT UK and the indies. Haven't seen him wrestle so can't really say anything about him. But Escobar, Waller, Hayes, Grimes...can't say any of those guys impress me. Waller to me is another Miz in the making. I just hope he won't wrestle like a coward when he develops into a fully-formed product, even if he sounds like someone desperately trying to play wrestler.

Yeah agree on LA Knight. He's so good in both the ring and on the mic that he almost seems destined to get lost in the shuffle on the main-roster.

WALTER is one of those guys that just looks and feels real. In alot of ways he is a throwback to old school strongman wrestlers. And honestly, when I watch his matches I always find myself saying (to myself) that these matches could have worked in literally any era. Could have worked in the 1940s, the 70s, the 90s and work even well in the modern day because of how distinct they are from everything else.

That's good to hear. Common sense prevails at last. I would have liked Rex Steiner even more just because its a more catchy and marketable name. But Bronson Steiner works too.

I think Carmelo Hayes would have worked better in old NXT. Santos Escobar has had a good history in Mexico as well and has been carrying his opponents in a lot of matches like Kross, Xyon Quinn, Swerve and some others, and he doesn't get credit for that. Actually he had to visibly slow down a lot in order to shelter Quinn's slowness in the ring during their matches. Grimes is okay, like his mic skills and comedic timing. Will probably be running in the 24/7 title picture in future sadly.
They've been trying really hard to make Waller a character rather than a wrestler. He was forced into Wargames match without a proper feud, then was given the big spot to write out Gargano. I think if he had been made to get over organically with good in ring matches, it would have been better cause he definitely has the in ring skills.

I don't know if Walter would work the main roster. Keith Lee was better fit for the main roster than Walter yet he couldn't make it there. here

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Oooh yeah. Now that you mention it, I think that could be a major possibility.

...and a good way to send the people home happy.

I would mark out if it happens. Plus that would be the best way to get Dwayne to surprise and not announcing it beforehand.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That might have been HHH's influence at play. We all know HHH has always loved beating/burying ex-WCW guys. And Sting was one former WCW top guy he never got the chance to bury.

Again, I understand your point. Sometimes there is absolutely no logic or common sense behind Vince's booking decisions. A better example would probably be having AJ lose in his first WrestleMania match to Jericho. But even he shouldn't be stupid enough to beat Cody here. Cody is probably going to get a massive pop when he debuts at Mania and it would be a massive buzzkill if the result of that match is anything other than Cody winning.

Yup but i can't bet on it that Cody would win (even though it should be an obvious choice) as weirder things have happened under Vince's watch.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] there's a twitter trend going on what if it's Shane O Mac that comes out as Seth's secret opponent instead of Cody as was the original plan. Tbh that would be funny as hell and Vince's way of giving the finger to all the IWC.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Carmelo Hayes would have worked better in old NXT. Santos Escobar has had a good history in Mexico as well and has been carrying his opponents in a lot of matches like Kross, Xyon Quinn, Swerve and some others, and he doesn't get credit for that. Actually he had to visibly slow down a lot in order to shelter Quinn's slowness in the ring during their matches. Grimes is okay, like his mic skills and comedic timing. Will probably be running in the 24/7 title picture in future sadly.
They've been trying really hard to make Waller a character rather than a wrestler. He was forced into Wargames match without a proper feud, then was given the big spot to write out Gargano. I think if he had been made to get over organically with good in ring matches, it would have been better cause he definitely has the in ring skills.

I don't know if Walter would work the main roster. Keith Lee was better fit for the main roster than Walter yet he couldn't make it there. here

Honestly when I look at the guys in that match, its hard to see anyone besides Grayson Waller and Solo Sikoa being anything more than mid-carders or undercarders if they reach the main-roster. The reason I have singled out Sikoa is because Vince tends to look at Samoans differently. And for the last 30 or so years they have always had a place in his company. And the reason I have singled out Waller is because there will always be a place in WWE for Miz-like sports-entertainers who can consistently get cheap heat with the crowd...even if everything they do feels phony, contrived and overly choreographed.

But even with those guys there's no guarantee that they will make it because you just can't predict that with WWE. You can have the 'right look' and/or all the talent in the world, and even be a seemingly top guy in NXT; its highly likely that none of that will have any bearing if you get called up to the main-roster because internally in WWE, NXT has always been viewed as minor league.

Besides Keith Lee, Karrion Kross and Aleister Black were two other NXT top guys not too long ago, and even passed the eye test. And we all saw how they were treated once they got to the main-roster.

It's like nothing you did in NXT matters. Even their names don't stay the same and they get saddled with these stupid one word names because WWE wants to create everything in their mold. I literally cringed when WALTER came out on NXT and said that his name was Gunther. I mean for a second, I felt bad for the guy because I thought here is a guy who is renowned the world over for being a pure pro-wrestler with zero frills and gimmicks, and someone who atleast gives you the impression that there is no dividing line between his gimmick and who he actually is. But then I figured that they probably threw millions of dollars at him so I started feeling a little less sorry for him.

But still, its futile to hope that any of these guys (besides our boy Bronson I guess) will reach any kind of heights outside of NXT. If it happens its great, but no point holding out hope.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] there's a twitter trend going on what if it's Shane O Mac that comes out as Seth's secret opponent instead of Cody as was the original plan. Tbh that would be funny as hell and Vince's way of giving the finger to all the IWC.

That actually would be hilarious. But it sounds to good to be true in my opinion. If it was just Uncle Dave saying that Cody has signed with WWE, I would have questioned it to some extent. But all the dirtsheets are saying it which tells me that the rumors are probably true. I also believe that all the news that was reported about Shane after the Rumble is probably true. Which would make Shane persona non grata in the company for atleast the near to immediate future.

 

[shaz619]

I have actually loved the work that KO has done with the feud. And his promo this week on the go-home RAW was probably the best one yet. But the initial premise for me was really stupid and contrived: I hate Texas so I'm going to call out Stone Cold.

And I actually think that this KO Show segment will be bigger. Because certain people have said that it will close the show. And honestly who on that card is topping the pop Austin is going to get in Texas? Certainly not Charlotte and Ronda...

It’s a pretty basic narrative, the old cheap heat tactic, but it’s not awful imo, they went that route perhaps also because KO is Canadian and what not. Texas is full of big idiots though lol I don’t want to dig deep into it or else we’d end up hating on some of the guys we grew up watching lol It’s filler in the end but they’ve hyped it up a bit as though it will be more so we look at it differently but I personally just see it as a bit of fun, if you’re right and it does close the show which I’d find surprising, I’d be really happy for KO getting his elusive WM moment and probably the best moment of his career arguably, Austin inspired him to get in the business giving him advice when he was at ROH and all, the childhood him must be losing his sh!t on the inside.

As for Shane being the rumoured opponent for Seth, I wouldn’t put it past Vince lol Jim tried to explain once the logic behind some of Vince’s most bizarre decisions and he said that when something makes a great deal of sense or the audience is expecting it, he likes to swerve to be a bit unpredictable lol [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] with that in mind I’d expect him on the RAW after mania at the very least

 

[shaz619]

The best thing about the E right now is the incredible archive footage on the Network and so many of the ground breaking documentaries. Besides that the product itself is a bit depressing outside a select few who don’t get treated like dirt, it’s sad to see what they’ve done to WALTER and Pete Dunne.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Honestly when I look at the guys in that match, its hard to see anyone besides Grayson Waller and Solo Sikoa being anything more than mid-carders or undercarders if they reach the main-roster. The reason I have singled out Sikoa is because Vince tends to look at Samoans differently. And for the last 30 or so years they have always had a place in his company. And the reason I have singled out Waller is because there will always be a place in WWE for Miz-like sports-entertainers who can consistently get cheap heat with the crowd...even if everything they do feels phony, contrived and overly choreographed.

But even with those guys there's no guarantee that they will make it because you just can't predict that with WWE. You can have the 'right look' and/or all the talent in the world, and even be a seemingly top guy in NXT; its highly likely that none of that will have any bearing if you get called up to the main-roster because internally in WWE, NXT has always been viewed as minor league.

Besides Keith Lee, Karrion Kross and Aleister Black were two other NXT top guys not too long ago, and even passed the eye test. And we all saw how they were treated once they got to the main-roster.

It's like nothing you did in NXT matters. Even their names don't stay the same and they get saddled with these stupid one word names because WWE wants to create everything in their mold. I literally cringed when WALTER came out on NXT and said that his name was Gunther. I mean for a second, I felt bad for the guy because I thought here is a guy who is renowned the world over for being a pure pro-wrestler with zero frills and gimmicks, and someone who atleast gives you the impression that there is no dividing line between his gimmick and who he actually is. But then I figured that they probably threw millions of dollars at him so I started feeling a little less sorry for him.

But still, its futile to hope that any of these guys (besides our boy Bronson I guess) will reach any kind of heights outside of NXT. If it happens its great, but no point holding out hope.

You're right about the main roster vortex. KO, Zayn and Balor are the only 3 singles guys who can be considered successful on main roster. Women have had a lot more success on the main roster as compared to the guys. But I think guys who have done well in NXT can still raise their stocks and then go to NJPW or even AEW and become well regarded names (obviously not as mainstream as WWE stars). Like Juice Robinson, Callihan etc, they've been doing well outside of WWE.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s a pretty basic narrative, the old cheap heat tactic, but it’s not awful imo, they went that route perhaps also because KO is Canadian and what not. Texas is full of big idiots though lol I don’t want to dig deep into it or else we’d end up hating on some of the guys we grew up watching lol It’s filler in the end but they’ve hyped it up a bit as though it will be more so we look at it differently but I personally just see it as a bit of fun, if you’re right and it does close the show which I’d find surprising, I’d be really happy for KO getting his elusive WM moment and probably the best moment of his career arguably, Austin inspired him to get in the business giving him advice when he was at ROH and all, the childhood him must be losing his sh!t on the inside.

As for Shane being the rumoured opponent for Seth, I wouldn’t put it past Vince lol Jim tried to explain once the logic behind some of Vince’s most bizarre decisions and he said that when something makes a great deal of sense or the audience is expecting it, he likes to swerve to be a bit unpredictable lol [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] with that in mind I’d expect him on the RAW after mania at the very least

Having Cody arrive on the Raw after Mania with would be a typical Vince swerve like he had at Mania 34 with Lesnar ended up winning against Reigns after a build of 1 year.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That actually would be hilarious. But it sounds to good to be true in my opinion. If it was just Uncle Dave saying that Cody has signed with WWE, I would have questioned it to some extent. But all the dirtsheets are saying it which tells me that the rumors are probably true. I also believe that all the news that was reported about Shane after the Rumble is probably true. Which would make Shane persona non grata in the company for atleast the near to immediate future.

He can still debut on Raw or SD after Mania. Vince can do strangest of stuff. Everything is good with him as long as he is making money. I don't believe everything Meltzer says cause he makes up a lot of **. He was also reporting with confidence that Vince was going to be competing in a match at Mania not too long ago.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He can still debut on Raw or SD after Mania. Vince can do strangest of stuff. Everything is good with him as long as he is making money. I don't believe everything Meltzer says cause he makes up a lot of **. He was also reporting with confidence that Vince was going to be competing in a match at Mania not too long ago.

He can be straight-up wrong sometimes because he (and all the other dirtsheets) are working on info. that comes from people within the company who are likely not Prichard or Johnny Ace level executives. Because most top executives in WWE hate his guts. But in alot of cases plans probably just end up changing in WWE too. So yeah, better to take what these guys say with a grain of salt, but they are not always wrong either.

Still I have a feeling its going to be Cody at Mania. I might be wrong but I just have a feeling that even they might not be stupid enough to miss out on the opportunity of having a well-known top guy from the competition debut on their biggest show. As senile as Vince is he understands that perception is more powerful than reality in this business. And the perception that such a moment will create is going to be massive.

And by the looks of it, it won't be long before Shane is back too. Which is fine I guess. I actually like him as a personality and an authority figure. But I honestly think he should lay off wrestling altogether because it is not physically viable for him to keep doing those death-defying stunts at his age...even if it is once a year. I could also do without those punches which might just be the fakest punches in wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s a pretty basic narrative, the old cheap heat tactic, but it’s not awful imo, they went that route perhaps also because KO is Canadian and what not. Texas is full of big idiots though lol I don’t want to dig deep into it or else we’d end up hating on some of the guys we grew up watching lol It’s filler in the end but they’ve hyped it up a bit as though it will be more so we look at it differently but I personally just see it as a bit of fun, if you’re right and it does close the show which I’d find surprising, I’d be really happy for KO getting his elusive WM moment and probably the best moment of his career arguably, Austin inspired him to get in the business giving him advice when he was at ROH and all, the childhood him must be losing his sh!t on the inside.

As for Shane being the rumoured opponent for Seth, I wouldn’t put it past Vince lol Jim tried to explain once the logic behind some of Vince’s most bizarre decisions and he said that when something makes a great deal of sense or the audience is expecting it, he likes to swerve to be a bit unpredictable lol [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] with that in mind I’d expect him on the RAW after mania at the very least

No its definitely not awful, just lazy...in a typically WWE way.

Oh yeah. That's a can of worms that I don't think we need to open. And honestly not just guys from Texas but other wrestlers we grew up idolizing also seem to have some interesting political view too. But yeah let's probably not go there lol.

If I was a wrestling booker I would never book anyone other my World Champion to go on last. But considering how absolutely boring Charlotte-Ronda has been and how awful that match will likely be, I would welcome this potential change.

I don't disagree with you but somehow I feel its going to be Cody at Mania. Maybe I am wrong but I feel that a moment like that will be massive from a perception stand-point. Especially if Cody debuts with the same look, gear, gimmick and entrance theme he had in AEW. As senile as he his, I feel even Vince is not stupid enough to miss out on such a golden opportunity. I mean it would be a heck of a WrestleMania moment, pal!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He can be straight-up wrong sometimes because he (and all the other dirtsheets) are working on info. that comes from people within the company who are likely not Prichard or Johnny Ace level executives. Because most top executives in WWE hate his guts. But in alot of cases plans probably just end up changing in WWE too. So yeah, better to take what these guys say with a grain of salt, but they are not always wrong either.

Still I have a feeling its going to be Cody at Mania. I might be wrong but I just have a feeling that even they might not be stupid enough to miss out on the opportunity of having a well-known top guy from the competition debut on their biggest show. As senile as Vince is he understands that perception is more powerful than reality in this business. And the perception that such a moment will create is going to be massive.

And by the looks of it, it won't be long before Shane is back too. Which is fine I guess. I actually like him as a personality and an authority figure. But I honestly think he should lay off wrestling altogether because it is not physically viable for him to keep doing those death-defying stunts at his age...even if it is once a year. I could also do without those punches which might just be the fakest punches in wrestling.

Yup obviously everything points towards Cody vs Rollins happening at Mania. It's like 90-10. There's just 10% chance of Cody not being Seth's opponent. But what I am saying is that IF Vince decides to go all Vince in that moment, I won't be surprised cause a lot of nonsensical stuff has happened in WWE before.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

No its definitely not awful, just lazy...in a typically WWE way.

Oh yeah. That's a can of worms that I don't think we need to open. And honestly not just guys from Texas but other wrestlers we grew up idolizing also seem to have some interesting political view too. But yeah let's probably not go there lol.

If I was a wrestling booker I would never book anyone other my World Champion to go on last. But considering how absolutely boring Charlotte-Ronda has been and how awful that match will likely be, I would welcome this potential change.

I don't disagree with you but somehow I feel its going to be Cody at Mania. Maybe I am wrong but I feel that a moment like that will be massive from a perception stand-point. Especially if Cody debuts with the same look, gear, gimmick and entrance theme he had in AEW. As senile as he his, I feel even Vince is not stupid enough to miss out on such a golden opportunity. I mean it would be a heck of a WrestleMania moment, pal!

We need to discuss the dirty side of pro wrestling some day. Wrestling has been a dark dark business since 70s I believe and a lot of wrestlers and figures have done extremely despicable things that would make a normal guy hate them. That's why I was a big supporter of Xavier Woods on his response to Undertaker when he said the wrestlers of these days are soft and playing video games. Atleast prowrestling has taken a turn with a lot more stable and well educated personalities entering the business in the newer era compared to what it used to be like.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We need to discuss the dirty side of pro wrestling some day. Wrestling has been a dark dark business since 70s I believe and a lot of wrestlers and figures have done extremely despicable things that would make a normal guy hate them. That's why I was a big supporter of Xavier Woods on his response to Undertaker when he said the wrestlers of these days are soft and playing video games. Atleast prowrestling has taken a turn with a lot more stable and well educated personalities entering the business in the newer era compared to what it used to be like.

Yeah old-timers romanticize the good ol' days way too much. As if working 350+ days on the road while being addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, and taking dangerous bumps in the ring with long-term concussion repercussions was somehow a good thing. Not to mention, heels oftentimes getting their car tires slashed or just straight-up fearing for their life while leaving the arena, because most fans back then didn't know that wrestling was a work.

Wrestling may have gotten objectively worse in alot of ways over the years, but it has gotten better in a lot of ways too.

I don't know if you have seen Dark Side of the Ring or not, but if you haven't I would seriously recommend seeing it. Because that's literally what's its all about: the dark side of pro-wrestling. Its produced by VICE and there are 4 seasons of episodes that tackle dark stories from the past, from the world of pro-wrestling.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah old-timers romanticize the good ol' days way too much. As if working 350+ days on the road while being addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, and taking dangerous bumps in the ring with long-term concussion repercussions was somehow a good thing. Not to mention, heels oftentimes getting their car tires slashed or just straight-up fearing for their life while leaving the arena, because most fans back then didn't know that wrestling was a work.

Wrestling may have gotten objectively worse in alot of ways over the years, but it has gotten better in a lot of ways too.

I don't know if you have seen Dark Side of the Ring or not, but if you haven't I would seriously recommend seeing it. Because that's literally what's its all about: the dark side of pro-wrestling. Its produced by VICE and there are 4 seasons of episodes that tackle dark stories from the past, from the world of pro-wrestling.

I have followed a few episodes of DSOTR here and there. The story of New Jack sickens me still. How he decided to throw himself alongwith a guy on concrete cause he was afraid.

Plus there's been a lot of revelations about the dirty work Fabulous Moolah did back in the day. That's why I have always maintained a great deal of respect of Dwayne Johnson who has never been embroiled in any controversy as per my knowledge. Never liked Hogan or Flair even in during their active in ring career.

 

[shaz619]

No its definitely not awful, just lazy...in a typically WWE way.

Oh yeah. That's a can of worms that I don't think we need to open. And honestly not just guys from Texas but other wrestlers we grew up idolizing also seem to have some interesting political view too. But yeah let's probably not go there lol.

If I was a wrestling booker I would never book anyone other my World Champion to go on last. But considering how absolutely boring Charlotte-Ronda has been and how awful that match will likely be, I would welcome this potential change.

I don't disagree with you but somehow I feel its going to be Cody at Mania. Maybe I am wrong but I feel that a moment like that will be massive from a perception stand-point. Especially if Cody debuts with the same look, gear, gimmick and entrance theme he had in AEW. As senile as he his, I feel even Vince is not stupid enough to miss out on such a golden opportunity. I mean it would be a heck of a WrestleMania moment, pal!

I’d call it that especially if it were a match but I don’t think it is, I can’t recall much of a build for Piper Pit? at WM21 but that was a big draw in itself.

Charlotte has her haters but P4P the quality of her ring work is up there with the best in the world, Ronda is very capable but don’t know what to expect due to her lack of activity. It wouldn’t shock me if they have a great match. Charlotte’s ring work is very authentic and brings a high level of realism to it, I like watching her matches personally. She made me forget there was no crowd when she fought Rhea at mania a year or so ago, very few show the same intensity in the ring.

Am not sure if it will be the same gimmick from out of WWE, but surely it wont be some of his previous characters he has portrayed which in my opinion he thrived in getting them over even though they weren't main event level. He ought to get a proper run now and he’s a better performer to, I can’t wait for the doc on Dusty. If it’s not at mania I wont see it as a bad thing, but if he’s not on RAW the night after then I’d be like wth

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’d call it that especially if it were a match but I don’t think it is, I can’t recall much of a build for Piper Pit? at WM21 but that was a big draw in itself.

Charlotte has her haters but P4P the quality of her ring work is up there with the best in the world, Ronda is very capable but don’t know what to expect due to her lack of activity. It wouldn’t shock me if they have a great match. Charlotte’s ring work is very authentic and brings a high level of realism to it, I like watching her matches personally. She made me forget there was no crowd when she fought Rhea at mania a year or so ago, very few show the same intensity in the ring.

Am not sure if it will be the same gimmick from out of WWE, but surely it wont be some of his previous characters he has portrayed which in my opinion he thrived in getting them over even though they weren't main event level. He ought to get a proper run now and he’s a better performer to, I can’t wait for the doc on Dusty. If it’s not at mania I wont see it as a bad thing, but if he’s not on RAW the night after then I’d be like wth

Unpopular opinion but I'm not a fan of Charlotte. Technically, she is very good but I just find her to be a really selfish worker who always has to make herself look good regardless of how her opponent looks. Alot of her moves are very babyface moves that make no sense for her to do from a psychology stand-point, and end up inadvertently burying the babyface. This match with Ronda will be the biggest test of her ability as a wrestler. They used to say that Shawn Michaels could work a great match with a broomstick if he wanted to. Let's see if Charlotte can make Ronda look good and carry the match because frankly, Ronda is not good in the ring and what's worse is that she looks totally uninterested in whatever she is doing right now.

And honestly when I think about it I feel Becky and Britt Baker are both better than Charlotte. Britt in particular wrestles like a heel. You'll never see her doing spectacular moonsaults off the top rope. And she almost always tries to cheat to win. How many times have we seen Charlotte straight-up beat a babyface clean in the middle of the ring?

I mean there's no guarantee but if WWE want to send a proper message, than visually, Cody has to look almost exactly like he looked in AEW

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’d call it that especially if it were a match but I don’t think it is, I can’t recall much of a build for Piper Pit? at WM21 but that was a big draw in itself.

Charlotte has her haters but P4P the quality of her ring work is up there with the best in the world, Ronda is very capable but don’t know what to expect due to her lack of activity. It wouldn’t shock me if they have a great match. Charlotte’s ring work is very authentic and brings a high level of realism to it, I like watching her matches personally. She made me forget there was no crowd when she fought Rhea at mania a year or so ago, very few show the same intensity in the ring.

Am not sure if it will be the same gimmick from out of WWE, but surely it wont be some of his previous characters he has portrayed which in my opinion he thrived in getting them over even though they weren't main event level. He ought to get a proper run now and he’s a better performer to, I can’t wait for the doc on Dusty. If it’s not at mania I wont see it as a bad thing, but if he’s not on RAW the night after then I’d be like wth

Nah if it were a match they would have said that. My money is on a 7-8 minute brawl. With entrances it could last 15-18 minutes. If they are smart enough they might even find a way to add some verbal barbs in there too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I have followed a few episodes of DSOTR here and there. The story of New Jack sickens me still. How he decided to throw himself alongwith a guy on concrete cause he was afraid.

Plus there's been a lot of revelations about the dirty work Fabulous Moolah did back in the day. That's why I have always maintained a great deal of respect of Dwayne Johnson who has never been embroiled in any controversy as per my knowledge. Never liked Hogan or Flair even in during their active in ring career.

Some episodes are legit terrifying. But I really like their diversity of topics. They've episodes on mainsteam stuff (Montreal Screwjob, Benoit, Owen Hart, Steroid Trials) just as well as they've done episodes on obscure subjects (Kanyon, Grizzly Smith, UWF). The Plane Ride From Hell episode in particular was eye-opening and its release has probably even affected the way people perceive Flair and Tommy Dreamer now. The Brawl For All episode on the other hand was simply hilarious.

I think that was probably one of the least worst things New Jack did. For me, it doesn't compare to the time he almost killed a kid in the ring who he thought was a green wrestler.

Undoubtedly Hogan was a massive scumbag. But I think he does deserve alot of credit for Hollywood Hulk Hogan. That gimmick was money and Hogan was absolutely amazing at playing it...probably because of how close it was to reality. Hollywood Hulk Hogan has to be one the best ever heels in the history of the business.

Flair was quite obviously a sex pest, as revealed by that Plane Ride From Hell episode. But as a wrestler the guy is simply the GOAT. And I don't think anyone can take that away from him.

Hogan too was the biggest draw in wrestling after Stone Cold. And that's something no one can take away from him, despite the person that he was.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Some episodes are legit terrifying. But I really like their diversity of topics. They've episodes on mainsteam stuff (Montreal Screwjob, Benoit, Owen Hart, Steroid Trials) just as well as they've done episodes on obscure subjects (Kanyon, Grizzly Smith, UWF). The Plane Ride From Hell episode in particular was eye-opening and its release has probably even affected the way people perceive Flair and Tommy Dreamer now. The Brawl For All episode on the other hand was simply hilarious.

I think that was probably one of the least worst things New Jack did. For me, it doesn't compare to the time he almost killed a kid in the ring who he thought was a green wrestler.

Undoubtedly Hogan was a massive scumbag. But I think he does deserve alot of credit for Hollywood Hulk Hogan. That gimmick was money and Hogan was absolutely amazing at playing it...probably because of how close it was to reality. Hollywood Hulk Hogan has to be one the best ever heels in the history of the business.

Flair was quite obviously a sex pest, as revealed by that Plane Ride From Hell episode. But as a wrestler the guy is simply the GOAT. And I don't think anyone can take that away from him.

Hogan too was the biggest draw in wrestling after Stone Cold. And that's something no one can take away from him, despite the person that he was.

Yup. But both Hogan and Flair, they could never quite hide their real selves on screen. You could always see a care free pervert in Flair whether he was playing a face or heel. Similarly, you could always see Hogan as the power hungry and egocentric person even during his heroic run during the 80s boom.

But yes, they definitely had something extra ordinary about them that led to their respective successes. Not every one can become that good of entertainers or wrestlers.

Pretty sure there's a lot of hidden rotten eggs in today's wrestling as well. Darby Allin has that vibe about him. Del Rio has had a poor history. That Gigi Dolin of NXT is nauseating with the attention seeking stuff she does on her Insta. The thing is a lot of these guys/gals could well go and venture into other industries like pornography or turn to a life of crime if things don't work out for them in wrestling.

That's why seeing well educated and sensible guys like Woods, Big E, Bryan, Britt Baker is so good to see.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yup. But both Hogan and Flair, they could never quite hide their real selves on screen. You could always see a care free pervert in Flair whether he was playing a face or heel. Similarly, you could always see Hogan as the power hungry and egocentric person even during his heroic run during the 80s boom.

But yes, they definitely had something extra ordinary about them that led to their respective successes. Not every one can become that good of entertainers or wrestlers.

Pretty sure there's a lot of hidden rotten eggs in today's wrestling as well. Darby Allin has that vibe about him. Del Rio has had a poor history. That Gigi Dolin of NXT is nauseating with the attention seeking stuff she does on her Insta. The thing is a lot of these guys/gals could well go and venture into other industries like pornography or turn to a life of crime if things don't work out for them in wrestling.

That's why seeing well educated and sensible guys like Woods, Big E, Bryan, Britt Baker is so good to see.

I don't know about Darby. Have heard nothing of that sort about him. Just that he was dirt poor and used to live in his car. The kid clearly had a tough childhood which probably explains why he's killing himself in the ring everytime.

Personally I feel like I'm someone who can separate the art from the artist, or the performance from the performer in this case. But I can understand how stuff like this might be something that affects how other people perceive these guys/gals.

 

[shaz619]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not a fan of Charlotte. Technically, she is very good but I just find her to be a really selfish worker who always has to make herself look good regardless of how her opponent looks. Alot of her moves are very babyface moves that make no sense for her to do from a psychology stand-point, and end up inadvertently burying the babyface. This match with Ronda will be the biggest test of her ability as a wrestler. They used to say that Shawn Michaels could work a great match with a broomstick if he wanted to. Let's see if Charlotte can make Ronda look good and carry the match because frankly, Ronda is not good in the ring and what's worse is that she looks totally uninterested in whatever she is doing right now.

And honestly when I think about it I feel Becky and Britt Baker are both better than Charlotte. Britt in particular wrestles like a heel. You'll never see her doing spectacular moonsaults off the top rope. And she almost always tries to cheat to win. How many times have we seen Charlotte straight-up beat a babyface clean in the middle of the ring?

I mean there's no guarantee but if WWE want to send a proper message, than visually, Cody has to look almost exactly like he looked in AEW

I wouldn’t say that’s unpopular in IWC circles, they don’t like the personality and that can cloud the view on her abilities in the ring potentially, there have been moments where she has been a bit reckless and deserves criticism for it (she isn’t alone in that when we look other workers) beyond that she is arguably the greatest woman in history when we look at her ring work at her best and character work, mannerisms etc she has the peer support to in that regard, Austin was a massive mark of the nature boy and he gives Charlotte credit for being authentic and reinventing the character, he never thought we’d ever see another have the same aura but his daughter does in her own way. She has a couple of high spots but they are predominately used as her signature moves which is not bad, Eddie Guerrero didn’t stop using the frog splash when he was heel, imo it’s what you do during the match as a whole and when you use those moves.

Baker isn’t as athletic as Charlotte if she were am sure she’d use those moves for the cheap pops from the AEW hipster crowd who love their high spots, Baker is very good and works to her strengths but I’d not put her ring work anywhere close to Charlotte although she is the non-WWE flavour of the month right now - as good as she is I actually think Thunder Rosa is significantly better in the ring but is not being booked the way she should like in NWA powerr. In terms of how each of these women win; it’s down to booking, but in terms of comparing their ring abilities directly, I don’t see a comparison, Baker is being booked to her strengths, she has solid fundamentals and a decent ring IQ but that’s about it and beyond that her company have used cheap tactics to get her over with those horrible gimmick matches, that’s far worse then being booked to go over a babyface clean. WWE has been criticised for chicken sh!t heels so having a strong heel among them is not the most awful thing and that still gets heat evidently but I wouldn’t say that is the case for the entirety of her run.

Honestly forget both Baker and Becky, pound for pound male or female, very few can match the intensity of Charlotte in the ring among those in the world right now if am honest with you.

I don’t expect her to equal Shawn, who will? but WWE is the toughest territory for a wrestler and she has thrived in the best woman's division in history.

Cody’s run in AEW was far from perfect imo but if you look at the best of him outside the E in general, they should defo take all of that and build on it to give him a decent run, but lets be honest, Cody is a great on the character side and his ring work can be good providing shrewd matchmaking - that might be his downfall inevitably

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't know about Darby. Have heard nothing of that sort about him. Just that he was dirt poor and used to live in his car. The kid clearly had a tough childhood which probably explains why he's killing himself in the ring everytime.

Personally I feel like I'm someone who can separate the art from the artist, or the performance from the performer in this case. But I can understand how stuff like this might be something that affects how other people perceive these guys/gals.

There's been sexual assault allegations against Darby. Don't know how much there is to them though.

Yes it's always good to seperate the art from the artist unless the things that person has done are untenable.

 

[The_KING]

Wrestlemania 38 has the tagline "the most stupendous two night event in wrestlemania history." Looking at the match card, there is nothing stupendous about this event. Half of these matches look like they belong on an episode of Raw or Smackdown.

Here are my thoughts on some of the big matches:

Charlotte Flair vs Ronda Rousey: This match should have been Ronda Rousey vs Becky Lynch, but they had to stick Ric Flair's daughter with Rondy just like they stuck her in the Becky vs Rondy match from three years back to make it a triple threat. I honestly don't get the hype with Charlotte. She seems quite botchy in the ring but she keeps getting pushed all the time. WWE won't rest until she beats her father's sixteen world title record. Also, Rondy as a face sucks. She needed to be a heel but that's difficult when she is up against the unlikeable Charlotte Flair.

Edge vs AJ Styles: My most anticipated match of the night, which means that it probably will suck. I am glad that they turned Edge heel. My greatest memories of Edge are as heel during 2005-09, so I am glad that he is back on the dark side. The buildup could have been better, but you can say that about every single match on this card.

Seth Rollins vs Cody Rhodes (most likely): The only thing I am gonna say is that Cody Rhodes is overrated. I don't get the hype with him, never have and never will.

Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar: Do we really need to see this match again at Wrestlemania? These guys aren't Austin and Rock. They aren't Triple H and The Undertaker. We don't need to see a trilogy of Lesnar & Reigns at Wrestlemania. I am a big fan of the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns. He has been the best thing about WWE for some time. I also like Brock. But I just have no desire to see them compete again at Wrestlemania, especially when the outcome is so predictable. We all know that Roman will win. They are saving him for the Rock.

Stone Cold Steve Austin appearing on the Kevin Owens show: While I am glad that Austin is making a comeback and that he will get physical, he won't be wrestling a match. We have seen Austin get physical in segments since his retirement. This isn't anything new. If you are going to bring Austin back, try to bring him back for a match, even if that match involves him giving a stunner and winning the match inside the first 10 seconds. Also not hating on KO, but Austin was the biggest star of the biggest era of wrestling. If you bring Austin back, you bring him back for an angle with one of your current big stars, such as Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar or Edge. You don't bring him back to do an angle with Kevin Owens, who isn't a big star and never has been in WWE.

All in all, wrestlemania card looks quite bleak. That explains why they are constantly bringing back old stars from the attitude era for wrestlemania, because the current roster just lacks star power.

 

[The_KING]

Triple H recently announced his retirement. It is so scary that he nearly died. It is such a shame that he won't get to have a retirement match at Wrestlemania. Whatever you may think about him and the whole reign of terror, Triple H was one of the greats and he will be missed.

My favourites wrestlers growing up were Austin, Taker, Eddie, Angle, Rock, Batista, Booker, HBK & HHH. With HHH's retirement, all my childhood heroes are either retired or sadly passed away and that sucks.

On a more positive note, it was so heartwarming to see The Undertaker get inducted in the hall of fame and the fans giving him a amazing reception. I can't think of anyone more deserving than him.

 

[shaz619]

What a speech from The Undertaker, will hit you in the feels if you’ve followed him since the AE era or even earlier for some of you, he is to the WWE what Ric Flair was for Jim Crockett Promotions and WCW, he truly is the last outlaw and arguably the greatest WWE superstar in history. He has done it all and for a guy that size, he should never be that athletic or great in the ring, his toughness speaks for itself and he commanded respect like no other, even among some of the most biased journalists out there; very few have a bad word to say about the Undertaker backstage. He outlasted them all and broke through the mainstream platform on a global level, the one guy legit loyal to the E and especially us fans, he has always been there and gone over board to entertain us. One of the best speeches ever at a HOF - never ever heard a wrestler opening his speech thanking the fans but that’s the level of love and support he has felt over the years, never will he be replicated. Indeed, RIP to The Undertaker.

 

[shaz619]

Triple H recently announced his retirement. It is so scary that he nearly died. It is such a shame that he won't get to have a retirement match at Wrestlemania. Whatever you may think about him and the whole reign of terror, Triple H was one of the greats and he will be missed.

My favourites wrestlers growing up were Austin, Taker, Eddie, Angle, Rock, Batista, Booker, HBK & HHH. With HHH's retirement, all my childhood heroes are either retired or sadly passed away and that sucks.

On a more positive note, it was so heartwarming to see The Undertaker get inducted in the hall of fame and the fans giving him a amazing reception. I can't think of anyone more deserving than him.

Seth v Taker perhaps?

#NeverSayNever

 

[The_KING]

Seth v Taker perhaps?

#NeverSayNever

Will be far more compelling that Cody vs Seth

 

[shaz619]

Will be far more compelling that Cody vs Seth

It would be as a spectacle and for the nostalgia and if it is booked, imo should be a squash as am not sure what he’d be capable of ringwise, having said that I’d be shocked if he did comeback, Taker always said he’s love to leave when the fans may want one more. But I still feel Cody would re-debut on RAW as it’s less predictable going by Vince’s old logic

 

[The_KING]

It would be as a spectacle and for the nostalgia and if it is booked, imo should be a squash as am not sure what he’d be capable of ringwise, having said that I’d be shocked if he did comeback, Taker always said he’s love to leave when the fans may want one more. But I still feel Cody would re-debut on RAW as it’s less predictable going by Vince’s old logic

Taker's final match was a great one but it should have happened in front of the fans in the ring.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wrestlemania 38 has the tagline "the most stupendous two night event in wrestlemania history." Looking at the match card, there is nothing stupendous about this event. Half of these matches look like they belong on an episode of Raw or Smackdown.

Here are my thoughts on some of the big matches:

Charlotte Flair vs Ronda Rousey: This match should have been Ronda Rousey vs Becky Lynch, but they had to stick Ric Flair's daughter with Rondy just like they stuck her in the Becky vs Rondy match from three years back to make it a triple threat. I honestly don't get the hype with Charlotte. She seems quite botchy in the ring but she keeps getting pushed all the time. WWE won't rest until she beats her father's sixteen world title record. Also, Rondy as a face sucks. She needed to be a heel but that's difficult when she is up against the unlikeable Charlotte Flair.

Edge vs AJ Styles: My most anticipated match of the night, which means that it probably will suck. I am glad that they turned Edge heel. My greatest memories of Edge are as heel during 2005-09, so I am glad that he is back on the dark side. The buildup could have been better, but you can say that about every single match on this card.

Seth Rollins vs Cody Rhodes (most likely): The only thing I am gonna say is that Cody Rhodes is overrated. I don't get the hype with him, never have and never will.

Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar: Do we really need to see this match again at Wrestlemania? These guys aren't Austin and Rock. They aren't Triple H and The Undertaker. We don't need to see a trilogy of Lesnar & Reigns at Wrestlemania. I am a big fan of the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns. He has been the best thing about WWE for some time. I also like Brock. But I just have no desire to see them compete again at Wrestlemania, especially when the outcome is so predictable. We all know that Roman will win. They are saving him for the Rock.

Stone Cold Steve Austin appearing on the Kevin Owens show: While I am glad that Austin is making a comeback and that he will get physical, he won't be wrestling a match. We have seen Austin get physical in segments since his retirement. This isn't anything new. If you are going to bring Austin back, try to bring him back for a match, even if that match involves him giving a stunner and winning the match inside the first 10 seconds. Also not hating on KO, but Austin was the biggest star of the biggest era of wrestling. If you bring Austin back, you bring him back for an angle with one of your current big stars, such as Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar or Edge. You don't bring him back to do an angle with Kevin Owens, who isn't a big star and never has been in WWE.

All in all, wrestlemania card looks quite bleak. That explains why they are constantly bringing back old stars from the attitude era for wrestlemania, because the current roster just lacks star power.

I think Charlotte v Ronda is going to be terrible. Ronda looks totally uninterested and isn't good in the ring to begin with. And if she isn't up to snuff, Flair won't bother to carry her at the expense of getting over herself. Maybe I am wrong but I don't see these two having good chemistry in the ring.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What a speech from The Undertaker, will hit you in the feels if you’ve followed him since the AE era or even earlier for some of you, he is to the WWE what Ric Flair was for Jim Crockett Promotions and WCW, he truly is the last outlaw and arguably the greatest WWE superstar in history. He has done it all and for a guy that size, he should never be that athletic or great in the ring, his toughness speaks for itself and he commanded respect like no other, even among some of the most biased journalists out there; very few have a bad word to say about the Undertaker backstage. He outlasted them all and broke through the mainstream platform on a global level, the one guy legit loyal to the E and especially us fans, he has always been there and gone over board to entertain us. One of the best speeches ever at a HOF - never ever heard a wrestler opening his speech thanking the fans but that’s the level of love and support he has felt over the years, never will he be replicated. Indeed, RIP to The Undertaker.

Pretty good speech. Went on a little too long for my taste...and at times felt like a TED talk. But I think Taker has earned that much based on the career he has had.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Did you guys catch the ROH Supercard of Honor PPV? Because this was a pretty good PPV.

Right off the bat, let me just say that this PPV is worth seeing just for FTR v Briscoes alone because that match is easily one of the very best tag team matches you will ever see on a wrestling show. Might be one of the best tag team matches of the modern era if I think about it. Just an absolutely off the charts exhibition of tag team wrestling.

But besides that, it had two other excellent matches in Jonathan Gresham v Bandido and Jay Lethal v Lee Moriarty. Josh Woods v Wheeler Yuta for the Pure Title too was fairly good despite being hampered for time. You had Minoru Suzuki wrestling for the TV title. And finally, a massive surprise at the end of the show that just made me mark out.

On a weekend where all eyes are on WrestleMania this show offered a nice counterpoint to the pageantry and spectacle of all that by just presenting stripped-down, old-school professional wrestling.

ROH is alive and kicking!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw what do you make of Tony Khan's purchase of ROH?

Personally I think its the best thing that could have happened for ROH and AEW. We even talked about this before...that AEW is in desperate need of an NXT-style developmental territory where their young talent can just go and get ring + TV exposure and improve, instead of learning on the job and botching it up on what is AEW's premier, flagship TV show.

And ROH now provides them just that. On top of that, the added bonus is that they can put alot of guys from their main roster In ROH who aren't getting on TV anyway, but are not necessarily bad either.

If a wrestler has reached a dead-end creatively, he or she can just go to ROH and reestablish themselves too like Balor did in NXT.

And because ROH fans like good wrestling, AEW can easily turn this into the new NXT: a show with good workers and young rising stars who can have good wrestling matches on a consistent basis without actually being infront of a huge amount of people or on national TV. I know calling ROH a potentially new NXT is an oxymoron because NXT itself essentially became the new ROH during 2017-18, but I hope you get my drift.

And not to mention, Tony Khan now has ownership of ROH's coveted tape library which will be of great use to him, not just in regards to creating a future AEW streaming service, but also creatively when it comes to enhancing feuds and storylines. They basically have 20+ years of backstory on some of their biggest stars (Punk, Danielson, Kingston, Adam Page, Adam Cole, Bucks, reDRagon etc. etc.).

Overall, a smart move that not only allows ROH to live, but also provides it with the opportunity to be better than they have been in the last 3 years.

 

[The_KING]

Logan Paul actually put in a really good performance just like Bad Bunny did last year. It's nice to see that celebrities actually put in the hard work and not just show up for a paycheck. Also The Miz is an absolutely brilliant heel. He is so underrated.

 

[The_KING]

I think Charlotte v Ronda is going to be terrible. Ronda looks totally uninterested and isn't good in the ring to begin with. And if she isn't up to snuff, Flair won't bother to carry her at the expense of getting over herself. Maybe I am wrong but I don't see these two having good chemistry in the ring.

Ronda wanted to be the heel but they made her into some cringe babyface. No wonder she looks disinterested.

 

[The_KING]

My thoughts on the Night 1 of Wrestlemania:

“Spoiler warning” If you haven’t watched the show yet and don’t want it spoiled, ignore my post.



1) The Usos vs Nakamura & Boogs: Standard tag match. Nothing special.

2) McEntyre vs Corbin: Like the previous match, nothing special. Not much to say.

3) The Mysterios vs Logan Paul and The Miz: This was a surprisingly good match and Logan Paul performed well. The Miz is an awesome heel and deserves more respect.

4) Becky Lynch vs Bainca Blair: This was the match of the night for me. Both ladies put on a great fast paced match and in the end, the right person won.

5) Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins: Even though I don’t care for Cody, but this match was quite good. And I’m surprised that Cody won considering he is an AEW guy and we all know how Vince likes to bury guys from other companies.

6) Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair: I didn’t watch this match in full but from the little I saw, it wasn’t anything special. And of course, Flair’s daughter had to win. Can Charlotte become any more unlikeable?

7) Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens: This was my highlight of the night and probably my biggest wrestling highlight in a long time as a fan. Austin actually wrestled a match in 2022 and he didn’t look bad at all. He actually looked good and even took some bumps. The match was a no holds barred and most of the match took place outside of the ring. This was done to obviously protect Austin but the match delivered. Seeing Austin main event wrestlemania bought back so many memories. He looked like he was having so much fun. Perfect way to end night 1 of wrestlemania.

 

[shokz1408]

Wrestlemania night 1 was amazing. Things really changed gears big time from Becky bianca onwards. That match was special, my girl EST did it, and then Rhodes Rollins wow the stuff of dreams. Finishing with Austin in a decent length match. Now waiting for my tribal chief tonight! Can’t wait, and looking forward to Edge styles, and Lashley Omos should be good too.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Did you guys catch the ROH Supercard of Honor PPV? Because this was a pretty good PPV.

Right off the bat, let me just say that this PPV is worth seeing just for FTR v Briscoes alone because that match is easily one of the very best tag team matches you will ever see on a wrestling show. Might be one of the best tag team matches of the modern era if I think about it. Just an absolutely off the charts exhibition of tag team wrestling.

But besides that, it had two other excellent matches in Jonathan Gresham v Bandido and Jay Lethal v Lee Moriarty. Josh Woods v Wheeler Yuta for the Pure Title too was fairly good despite being hampered for time. You had Minoru Suzuki wrestling for the TV title. And finally, a massive surprise at the end of the show that just made me mark out.

On a weekend where all eyes are on WrestleMania this show offered a nice counterpoint to the pageantry and spectacle of all that by just presenting stripped-down, old-school professional wrestling.

ROH is alive and kicking!

As for Taker’s speech and the TED stuff I’ve seen this written on social media especially by AEW hipster smarks I wouldn’t follow what these guys spew, some of the most condescending and disrespectful so called fans of wrestling out there, maybe it’s mostly the young ones but they can’t possibly comprehend the contribution of Taker to the wrestling industry and what he left in the ring, there’s always a time and place to insult and be a twit but for these guys there is no limit, Taker’s body of work speaks for itself though and as you say he earned the right a long time ago to do as he likes, there are many speech’s out there which follow the usual formula but using the platform to inspire reinforces the sort of character we’ve known Taker to be.

I’ve not caught the ROH card yet will be doing so, I thought it’s a massive positive Tony bought the company to breath more life into it, personally being a fan all those years ago I wouldn’t like it to be developmental strictly because it’s history is too rich on that front but it for sure can still be used in a way to improve the fundamentals of their roster, they could use it in the mould of the old NXT but I see it keeping its identity at the same time