The Wrestling Discussion Thread

Yeah that's a problem with Edge-Drew as well. Edge vs KO though should happen this year. Ideally at SummerSlam. Since it likely won't be happening at Mania.

If Austin is coming back 100%, I think AJ Styles would be a perfect opponent, I seen them two in a segment from a few years ago and they had some great chemistry. Edge and KO could then work at mania.

If KO does face Austin, I’d still be very happy to get Edge vs Styles at mania a genuine dream match right now
 
From what I remember the original plan was KO vs Bryan for the WWE Championship. With KO going over.

Find it hard to believe that they would have ever put Mustafa Ali in the main-event picture, let alone have him win the WWE Championship.

I think it was Mustafa vs Bryan at Fastlane and Bryan vs KO at Mania. But if he had gotten that spot for Elimination Chamber and the Gauntlet that Kofi eventually got, there was a chance Bryan could have pushed for him getting the chance. Like Bryan was the main guy behind calling him up from 205 and giving him a win over him. Then Mustafa Ali did actually get a title match in a triple threat against Bryan and KO at Fastlane.

Bryan had a lot of power backstage. Cesaro said he was the driving force behind him getting that match against Roman last year. Cesaro has been back to being almost a jobber since that match.
 
Yeah that's a problem with Edge-Drew as well. Edge vs KO though should happen this year. Ideally at SummerSlam. Since it likely won't be happening at Mania.

Yes. But I think Seth will betray KO soon as they have already sown the seeds for that. So I can see KO turning face maybe? or will it be Seth?

Honestly speaking, you can put in any talented guy and Drew and Edge can get a good match out of them. Drew-Randy feud and Edge-Randy feuds were bangers IMO. Drew-Randy at SS actually one of the most underrated matches of 2020. They built the whole match around who will hit their finisher first, but neither could hit the other and the match instead ended with a jack knife pin.

Ciampa-Randy is one feud that I would like to see. The promos would be fire with both having top notch characters.
 
Yes. But I think Seth will betray KO soon as they have already sown the seeds for that. So I can see KO turning face maybe? or will it be Seth?

Honestly speaking, you can put in any talented guy and Drew and Edge can get a good match out of them. Drew-Randy feud and Edge-Randy feuds were bangers IMO. Drew-Randy at SS actually one of the most underrated matches of 2020. They built the whole match around who will hit their finisher first, but neither could hit the other and the match instead ended with a jack knife pin.

Ciampa-Randy is one feud that I would like to see. The promos would be fire with both having top notch characters.

Good point. Honestly I'm ready for Seth to drop his cringeworthy heel schtick. He was over as a babyface until Vince killed him with that Fiend match at Hell in A Cell. He often gets babyface reactions from the crowd...like during the feud with Roman. And because KO turned heel only recently it would make logical sense for Seth to go babyface. Plus, they've already done this feud with KO as the face and Rollins as the heel in 2016 and 2020. And when WWE revisit a feud between two guys the roles tend to be reversed unless ofcourse its Big Show vs Cena lol.

Yeah I agree. Its just a shame that all that happened during COVID. Because ThunderDome/no crowd really took the air out of what were some incredible wrestling matches. Based on pure wrestling quality Edge v Orton at Backlash was arguably one of the greatest matches of the modern era in my book.

Top-notch characters? They are both the same people. I honestly wonder if they are half-brothers or something. Because the similarities are impossible to ignore.
 
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I think it was Mustafa vs Bryan at Fastlane and Bryan vs KO at Mania. But if he had gotten that spot for Elimination Chamber and the Gauntlet that Kofi eventually got, there was a chance Bryan could have pushed for him getting the chance. Like Bryan was the main guy behind calling him up from 205 and giving him a win over him. Then Mustafa Ali did actually get a title match in a triple threat against Bryan and KO at Fastlane.

Bryan had a lot of power backstage. Cesaro said he was the driving force behind him getting that match against Roman last year. Cesaro has been back to being almost a jobber since that match.

I think Ali is champion though would have been hard to do...even for Bryan. I would have loved my man KO get the belt tho. But at the end of the day the people spoke and they wanted Kofi.

Yeah I heard something of that sort too. I was hoping that they will atleast put the IC belt on him so we can see that belt mean something again by getting great matches. But no, they essentially fooled him into signing a contract by telling him they will push him---probably so he wouldn't go to AEW---and then dropped him like a bad habit, all the way down the card.
 
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If Austin is coming back 100%, I think AJ Styles would be a perfect opponent, I seen them two in a segment from a few years ago and they had some great chemistry. Edge and KO could then work at mania.

If KO does face Austin, I’d still be very happy to get Edge vs Styles at mania a genuine dream match right now

Based on what we've been seeing on RAW it seems like it will be Austin v KO if he comes back.

Somehow I find it hard to believe and will definitely have to see it to believe it considering Austin's very public comments about coming back to wrestle in the past. But I guess the cliched old never say never that people use for the wrestling business really does have alot of relevance. Unless someone is dead they probably will return.
 
I felt it was about 10min too long and outside MJF trying the Bret Hart spot on the post it was ok, it was a good learning curve for MJF especially and going these types of matches in the ring will help his ring development. I would have been happy even if it ended with the rear naked choke, that would have been a beautiful finish and good call back to Punk’s first UFC fight. They will do better in the gimmick matches which are to come

Agree fully.

The thing that has to be commended though (and this is a a recurring theme with AEW) is that the handful of young stars that they see as the future, they are pushing and protecting like they need to be.

And that's what sets them apart from WWE. And why they are not going to fizzle out and implode like WCW (barring unforeseen circumstances). They've pushed Sammy and Darby very well. I was not a fan of either when I started watching AEW 2 years ago. But now I am a big fan of both. Page and MJF have been treated as arguably the two biggest stars in the company. Page is the only wrestler in the company to beat Danielson so far, and is the world champion. MJF is the only one to beat Punk, and likely will be the next one to hold the belt.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Apparently Cody to WWE is a done deal lol. Part of the reason for Cody leaving was Tony Khan taking over all the booking. Surely that should mean he has taken away the tag division from the Bucks and the women's division from Omega too right?
 
Good point. Honestly I'm ready for Seth to drop his cringeworthy heel schtick. He was over as a babyface until Vince killed him with that Fiend match at Hell in A Cell. He often gets babyface reactions from the crowd...like during the feud with Roman. And because KO turned heel only recently it would make logical sense for Seth to go babyface. Plus, they've already done this feud with KO as the face and Rollins as the heel in 2016 and 2020. And when WWE revisit a feud between two guys the roles tend to be reversed unless ofcourse its Big Show vs Cena lol.

Yeah I agree. Its just a shame that all that happened during COVID. Because ThunderDome/no crowd really took the air out of what were some incredible wrestling matches. Based on pure wrestling quality Edge v Orton at Backlash was arguably one of the greatest matches of the modern era in my book.

Top-notch characters? They are both the same people. I honestly wonder if they are half-brothers or something. Because the similarities are impossible to ignore.

in 2016, Seth was the babyface. In 2020, the roles were reversed. So don't know what would happen the third time. WWE doesn't make logical decisions mostly lol. Plus both are known to screw over their partners so it will be intriguing. Maybe a face-face or heel-heel feud. I actually like the heel Seth cause that is closer to his real life stuff as he consistently triggers the fans on twitter and stuff out of nowhere. There were a lot of stuff wrong with his 2019 face run as a champ. First of all he was booked in a lengthy feud with Corbin and Lacey Evans of all people which was the first nail, then Seth got into a verbal fight with Ospreay on twitter regarding his bank balance which started turning the hardcore fans against him. Then the final nail in the coffin was his awful feud with The Fiend where Fiend was made to look unpinnable and Seth a scared kitten. Imagine your main face champ almost crying and running away from a character in this age.

Yes, that match was absolutely amazing and it suddenly reignited the fire in Randy Orton whose in ring work had become quite underwhelming in the recent years. Then they followed it with his feud with Drew. It would have been out of the world if there were crowd. My personal favorite singles matches of the recent times of the main roster include that match and Bryan-Roman at SD and AJ-Cena at SS, Bryan-AJ and Owens-Zayn at Battleground.

Ciampa actually makes you hate him as a heel though while Randy is a real cool heel and even gets loud pops as a heel. Like Randy is your cool heel and not a standard unintelligent one. He doesn't even get distracted by interferences like he showed in his feud against Bray. Even hit him an RKO when the lights were going out. Plus him hitting Nia with an RKO was the best 2019 Rumble moment for me.
 
I think Ali is champion though would have been hard to do...even for Bryan. I would have loved my man KO get the belt tho. But at the end of the day the people spoke and they wanted Kofi.

Yeah I heard something of that sort too. I was hoping that they will atleast put the IC belt on him so we can see that belt mean something again by getting great matches. But no, they essentially fooled him into signing a contract by telling him they will push him---probably so he wouldn't go to AEW---and then dropped him like a bad habit, all the way down the card.

Yeah plus Balor is being treated soooo bad. Like him jobbing to Theory and Woods didn't even look believable.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Apparently Cody to WWE is a done deal lol. Part of the reason for Cody leaving was Tony Khan taking over all the booking. Surely that should mean he has taken away the tag division from the Bucks and the women's division from Omega too right?

The booking in general or the creative of his own character ? I can understand the creative for his own storylines but who does he think he is wanting to book the entire show if that’s true lol does Cody think he is Hogan :))

You know what, respect to Khan for taking back control. You don’t want inmates taking over the asylum and treating national television like a non-televised outlaw garbage. Just look at how Mox like a right tool responded to a fan with profanity, like seriously Bret was a big mark for himself but he never treated the fans like that, Mox has been given so much freedom and investment by Khan and he bites the hand that fed him, his first match back was for some promotion I haven’t heard of like wth man Khan get your house in order, that’s like him sending the mrs to a next mans house, seriously lol

Khan might struggle with stuff but I rather he be the lead booker with guys like Regal around him / Team Triple H which has been let go then give control to the likes of the Bucks, Cody and Omega, promoters shouldn’t allow promoters to do their job for them
 
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Agree fully.

The thing that has to be commended though (and this is a a recurring theme with AEW) is that the handful of young stars that they see as the future, they are pushing and protecting like they need to be.

And that's what sets them apart from WWE. And why they are not going to fizzle out and implode like WCW (barring unforeseen circumstances). They've pushed Sammy and Darby very well. I was not a fan of either when I started watching AEW 2 years ago. But now I am a big fan of both. Page and MJF have been treated as arguably the two biggest stars in the company. Page is the only wrestler in the company to beat Danielson so far, and is the world champion. MJF is the only one to beat Punk, and likely will be the next one to hold the belt.

I appreciate what they are doing with the young guys but at same time it’s not good financially to take too much value out of the draws either. I didn’t like that match between Punk and Wardlow for example and Bryan needs to get back to winning, we can’t assume their previous history and treat them like HBK in his second run just yet because they need to be established in the company first and that way the younger guys get more out of the wins when they do go over.

Speaking of Shawn he is the GOAT my god, I was watching a special episode on him during the acclaimed RA era series but at each landmark moment/match, I paused to go back to that point, so after the back story of his issues in the late 90s and the career ending back injury I paused and went back to the unsanctioned match at SummerSlam with Hunter, it was an absolute masterpiece, Shawn never lost a step and showed an exceptionally high ring IQ, it was the little things in the match that he did which elevated it to another level and that all with his back concerns in mind, his mother was emotional backstage and Hunter was as well, he promised he’d take care of him in the ring on that night, but that was a miraculous effort and no one knew if Shawn would continue on after that, it was meant to be an one and done
 
Yeah plus Balor is being treated soooo bad. Like him jobbing to Theory and Woods didn't even look believable.

Yeah another incredible talent they are absolutely wasting.

If WWE want they have enough talent to give fans great wrestling matches in the mid-undercard. They don't even necessarily have to push certain guys as main-eventers. But ofcourse they have programmed the audience to look forward to idiotic segments with bad comedy, rather than good wrestling. There is no rhythm or reason to anything and guys could be pushed one week and doing jobs the next. And a large part of the problem is senile old Vince at the helm, surrounded by yes men who don't want to challenge him.
 
I appreciate what they are doing with the young guys but at same time it’s not good financially to take too much value out of the draws either. I didn’t like that match between Punk and Wardlow for example and Bryan needs to get back to winning, we can’t assume their previous history and treat them like HBK in his second run just yet because they need to be established in the company first and that way the younger guys get more out of the wins when they do go over.

Speaking of Shawn he is the GOAT my god, I was watching a special episode on him during the acclaimed RA era series but at each landmark moment/match, I paused to go back to that point, so after the back story of his issues in the late 90s and the career ending back injury I paused and went back to the unsanctioned match at SummerSlam with Hunter, it was an absolute masterpiece, Shawn never lost a step and showed an exceptionally high ring IQ, it was the little things in the match that he did which elevated it to another level and that all with his back concerns in mind, his mother was emotional backstage and Hunter was as well, he promised he’d take care of him in the ring on that night, but that was a miraculous effort and no one knew if Shawn would continue on after that, it was meant to be an one and done

Yeah but I think they are smart enough to know that. Page and MJF are arguably the top face/top heel in the company so it makes sense for them to go over. But yeah I would want both Punk and Bryan to start getting some consistent and convincing wins now.

One idea that I think should be worth considering is Bryan as TNT Champion. They could get so many great matches out of that and get the rub on a number of young guys who would get over just by wrestling Bryan.

As for Shawn, I don't think there was any a doubt about his ring IQ and ability in the ring. Few guys in history have been as good as him. The problem was always the fact that he was an insufferable p*ick. But credit to him for getting his life back on track. He is definitely someone the next generation of wrestlers could learn alot from. And I agree that match was off the charts. It is pretty remarkable that it was his first after 4 years because it did not feel like it.
 
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The booking in general or the creative of his own character ? I can understand the creative for his own storylines but who does he think he is wanting to book the entire show if that’s true lol does Cody think he is Hogan :))

You know what, respect to Khan for taking back control. You don’t want inmates taking over the asylum and treating national television like a non-televised outlaw garbage. Just look at how Mox like a right tool responded to a fan with profanity, like seriously Bret was a big mark for himself but he never treated the fans like that, Mox has been given so much freedom and investment by Khan and he bites the hand that fed him, his first match back was for some promotion I haven’t heard of like wth man Khan get your house in order, that’s like him sending the mrs to a next mans house, seriously lol

Khan might struggle with stuff but I rather he be the lead booker with guys like Regal around him / Team Triple H which has been let go then give control to the likes of the Bucks, Cody and Omega, promoters shouldn’t allow promoters to do their job for them

I think both. And that apparently didn't go down well with Cody. Which is surprising to me considering Cody has his hands on some of the most tone-deaf and stupid things AEW has ever done. From deliberately not turning heel to that promo where he talked about how he and his wife were going to have a mixed race baby :))

Yeah I agree. Alot of people criticize TK that he does not know how to book and should get a booker. Including Cornette. But thing is you can only learn by doing. He's a passionate wrestling fan who is putting his money in the company. He is the ones who stands to lose the most if things go awry. And if I was in his place I would want to book my own show too. I think he wasn't especially smart to how things work in the business which is probably why he let certain wrestlers take advantage of him initially. But he is maturing and taking back control is the right thing to do.

But yes, a million times yes. He would benefit so heavily from someone like Regal by his side. Someone who not only knows the business, has a great eye for talent and is a professional, but someone who will also not get in his way and likely provide him with some great guidance/advice. Joe is another guy who should be in AEW. In both a backstage capacity and a part-time wrestling role. Just imagine how awesome it would be to see Punk v Joe or Joe v Danielson again. Not to mention Joe against the various young guys.
 
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Yeah another incredible talent they are absolutely wasting.

If WWE want they have enough talent to give fans great wrestling matches in the mid-undercard. They don't even necessarily have to push certain guys as main-eventers. But ofcourse they have programmed the audience to look forward to idiotic segments with bad comedy, rather than good wrestling. There is no rhythm or reason to anything and guys could be pushed one week and doing jobs the next. And a large part of the problem is senile old Vince at the helm, surrounded by yes men who don't want to challenge him.

Well WWE is churning out record profits so I don't think Vince is going to see any reason to change. Money talks for businessmen I guess.
 
in 2016, Seth was the babyface. In 2020, the roles were reversed. So don't know what would happen the third time. WWE doesn't make logical decisions mostly lol. Plus both are known to screw over their partners so it will be intriguing. Maybe a face-face or heel-heel feud. I actually like the heel Seth cause that is closer to his real life stuff as he consistently triggers the fans on twitter and stuff out of nowhere. There were a lot of stuff wrong with his 2019 face run as a champ. First of all he was booked in a lengthy feud with Corbin and Lacey Evans of all people which was the first nail, then Seth got into a verbal fight with Ospreay on twitter regarding his bank balance which started turning the hardcore fans against him. Then the final nail in the coffin was his awful feud with The Fiend where Fiend was made to look unpinnable and Seth a scared kitten. Imagine your main face champ almost crying and running away from a character in this age.

Yes, that match was absolutely amazing and it suddenly reignited the fire in Randy Orton whose in ring work had become quite underwhelming in the recent years. Then they followed it with his feud with Drew. It would have been out of the world if there were crowd. My personal favorite singles matches of the recent times of the main roster include that match and Bryan-Roman at SD and AJ-Cena at SS, Bryan-AJ and Owens-Zayn at Battleground.

Ciampa actually makes you hate him as a heel though while Randy is a real cool heel and even gets loud pops as a heel. Like Randy is your cool heel and not a standard unintelligent one. He doesn't even get distracted by interferences like he showed in his feud against Bray. Even hit him an RKO when the lights were going out. Plus him hitting Nia with an RKO was the best 2019 Rumble moment for me.

Oh right. My bad. Yes Owens was heel during that 2016 feud. And yeah you can't exactly predict anything with WWE either so let's see how it pans out.

I was totally out of the loop about that internet stuff during that time. But yeah I agree that both those feuds ruined him. And the Hell in A Cell match was just an example of how terrible WWE is at just putting someone over. At the time both guys were hot. The Fiend was probably the hottest thing in the company. And instead of just putting him over since Seth was fading whereas Bray was getting hotter, they do a freaking DQ in a HIAC match! I would love to hear Bray's take on that match. Because Rollins by his own admission was furious at Vince after that match.

Oooh all great matches. These matches would be on my list as well along with Fiend-Bryan at Royal Rumble, Reigns-KO at TLC, Brock-AJ at Survivor Series and Ziggler-Miz at No Mercy. The last one primarily because I never thought The Miz could ever have a truly great wrestling match.

Yeah Ciampa is amazing. But I disagree on that part. Orton went full-on psycho during his 2018 feud with Jeff Hardy. That was a side of him I had never seen previously. The Fiend feud was just...bonkers. Killed Fiend completely (literally and metaphorically). But point is Orton can dial it up if he wants to. Problem is that he is working on the directives of Vince. And sometimes has to do stuff that is not in his comfort zone or in-sync with who he is. But he does it because the guy is a professional. Ciampa on the other hand likely had a lot more creative freedom on NXT which is why he was able to be himself.
 
Yeah but I think they are smart enough to know that. Page and MJF are arguably the top face/top heel in the company so it makes sense for them to go over. But yeah I would want both Punk and Bryan to start getting some consistent and convincing wins now.

One idea that I think should be worth considering is Bryan as TNT Champion. They could get so many great matches out of that and get the rub on a number of young guys who would get over just by wrestling Bryan.

As for Shawn, I don't think there was any a doubt about his ring IQ and ability in the ring. Few guys in history have been as good as him. The problem was always the fact that he was an insufferable p*ick. But credit to him for getting his life back on track. He is definitely someone the next generation of wrestlers could learn alot from. And I agree that match was off the charts. It is pretty remarkable that it was his first after 4 years because it did not feel like it.

Am not sure they are entirely, still pretty new in the game but they are good at delegating and allowing experienced/proven guys to take the lead. And am not talking just wins and losses, but maintaining the special attraction side of things when it comes to booking these guys and protecting their aura. At the moment they are on every week and it can come across as going through the motions and novelty will run out, obviously they can do well with whatever is given to them but there will come a point when some major adjustments will need to be made.

Page and MJF can go over when it makes sense there is no issue with that, but wouldn’t it have meant more for Page if he beat a Daniel Bryan who wasn’t just another guy who came in and kept racking up draws, wouldn’t it have meant more if he thrashed Omega their lead guy and then put over Page eventually just a small example. Punk on the other hand outside the promos which am fine with was on every week wrestling and in many cases just getting the rust of that’s how I justified it because I never felt too much pleasure in him beating guys I had no interest in seeing and then he was mauled by Wardlow, these things matter in the grand scheme there is always things to get better at and using your legit PPV stars better - but on the flip side we get to see Punk and Bryan frequently and they can really go in all areas and turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad due to their high level experience
 
I think both. And that apparently didn't go down well with Cody. Which is surprising to me considering Cody has his hands on some of the most tone-deaf and stupid things AEW has ever done. From deliberately not turning heel to that promo where he talked about how he and his wife were going to have a mixed race baby :))

Yeah I agree. Alot of people criticize TK that he does not know how to book and should get a booker. Including Cornette. But thing is you can only learn by doing. He's a passionate wrestling fan who is putting his money in the company. He is the ones who stands to lose the most if things go awry. And if I was in his place I would want to book my own show too. I think he wasn't especially smart to how things work in the business which is probably why he let certain wrestlers take advantage of him initially. But he is maturing and taking back control is the right thing to do.

But yes, a million times yes. He would benefit so heavily from someone like Regal by his side. Someone who not only knows the business, has a great eye for talent and is a professional, but someone who will also not get in his way and likely provide him with some great guidance/advice. Joe is another guy who should be in AEW. In both a backstage capacity and a part-time wrestling role. Just imagine how awesome it would be to see Punk v Joe or Joe v Danielson again. Not to mention Joe against the various young guys.

Yep he can learn on the job he has been around the set up a decent time as well now, a good booker is not a bad idea either especially someone like Gabe who is also available btw but I rather Khan run the show then let the bucks, Omega and especially Moxley call the shots. Cornette gives Khan credit when it is due am sure he must have a lot more now then in the past. I would love to see Joe he is an asset can do pretty much everything, as for the matches, am not sure if he can still go at the highest level and needs to improve his conditioning which has been impacted by a lack of inactivity
 
Oh right. My bad. Yes Owens was heel during that 2016 feud. And yeah you can't exactly predict anything with WWE either so let's see how it pans out.

I was totally out of the loop about that internet stuff during that time. But yeah I agree that both those feuds ruined him. And the Hell in A Cell match was just an example of how terrible WWE is at just putting someone over. At the time both guys were hot. The Fiend was probably the hottest thing in the company. And instead of just putting him over since Seth was fading whereas Bray was getting hotter, they do a freaking DQ in a HIAC match! I would love to hear Bray's take on that match. Because Rollins by his own admission was furious at Vince after that match.

Oooh all great matches. These matches would be on my list as well along with Fiend-Bryan at Royal Rumble, Reigns-KO at TLC, Brock-AJ at Survivor Series and Ziggler-Miz at No Mercy. The last one primarily because I never thought The Miz could ever have a truly great wrestling match.

Yeah Ciampa is amazing. But I disagree on that part. Orton went full-on psycho during his 2018 feud with Jeff Hardy. That was a side of him I had never seen previously. The Fiend feud was just...bonkers. Killed Fiend completely (literally and metaphorically). But point is Orton can dial it up if he wants to. Problem is that he is working on the directives of Vince. And sometimes has to do stuff that is not in his comfort zone or in-sync with who he is. But he does it because the guy is a professional. Ciampa on the other hand likely had a lot more creative freedom on NXT which is why he was able to be himself.

Agreed with your matches. That Ziggler-Miz feud was possibly the best feud of 2016 alongwith the Jericho-KO storyline. But the match that Ziggler won was the best of all. Miz even had a brilliant match with Roman on that weird Raw 30th celebration or whatever it was.

I'll be honest. I've never liked Bray as an in ring worker. Like he is just not coherent or fluent enough. The problem that Lashley suffers from as well. Like he just does the solitary moves after moves with no cohesion or transitions. Like playing a video game. The only good matches from Bray were that strap match with Bryan (solely due to Bryan's brilliance IMO) and his HIAC match with Roman back in 2015.
I just don't like characters that are just unbeatable. It makes them too monotonous and predictable. Braun's 2017 run was hot solely because he Reigns and Lesnar had been able to beat him and Finn almost beat him as well. Fiend was a good character no doubt, but Bray's in ring work needs improvement. Before Goldberg beat him in that bonkers match, I was actually rooting for Roman for the first time probably to beat someone cause I just couldn't stand an unpinnable guy. But WWE went the other way and had goldberg beat him in that 1 min match which wasn't even a match. It was so hilarious to be honest. It was just goldberg trying to get bray's hand out of his mouth for 1 min and then a suplex for a win.
 
Am not sure they are entirely, still pretty new in the game but they are good at delegating and allowing experienced/proven guys to take the lead. And am not talking just wins and losses, but maintaining the special attraction side of things when it comes to booking these guys and protecting their aura. At the moment they are on every week and it can come across as going through the motions and novelty will run out, obviously they can do well with whatever is given to them but there will come a point when some major adjustments will need to be made.

Page and MJF can go over when it makes sense there is no issue with that, but wouldn’t it have meant more for Page if he beat a Daniel Bryan who wasn’t just another guy who came in and kept racking up draws, wouldn’t it have meant more if he thrashed Omega their lead guy and then put over Page eventually just a small example. Punk on the other hand outside the promos which am fine with was on every week wrestling and in many cases just getting the rust of that’s how I justified it because I never felt too much pleasure in him beating guys I had no interest in seeing and then he was mauled by Wardlow, these things matter in the grand scheme there is always things to get better at and using your legit PPV stars better - but on the flip side we get to see Punk and Bryan frequently and they can really go in all areas and turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad due to their high level experience

Yeah but part of that is also that they do only 4 PPV's a year. And since they are a new company they need these guys on to drive the ratings up.

The problem with that happening for me was that Omega was the World Champion at the time. And you couldn't have made him look weak if he was going to out over Page later. The Page-Omega storyline had a year of build-up so that was always the more important match. Plus I feel like Omega vs Bryan is something they will revisit a number of times again. And a match like the one they had...that ended in a draw makes the audience want/anticipate them in the ring even more. Also, its not like Bryan two matches with Page weren't classics. They built Bryan up as a very credible challenger with the promos and the first match. But eventually Page had to go over.

At any rate, I would say that I am really happy with the way both Punk and Bryan are being used currently. As a wrestling fan I want to see Bryan wrestle as much as possible because he is someone who can have a great match with even a broomstick. I thought his match against Le Moriarity last week was excellent. And I have never been interested in Lee Moriarty (from whatever little I have seen of him) until now. And a huge part of that is Bryan. Plus the Bryan-Moxley storyline is intriguing and I am interested to see where is goes and ends. Must admit Bryan have a stable of young pure wrestlers is something I want to see. And I'm a big Moxley fan too.

And Punk's feud with MJF has also been executed to perfection and I am so glad that they went full-on old school with a freaking Dog Collar match. Cannot wait to see that.
 
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Don't know he's getting old for sure. He might just retire in a few years.

I feel like Vince is the type of guy who probably thinks deep down that if he built the company he should be the one to burn it down to the ground. He has probably internalized this with his braindead booking. But I dunno, the idea of him retiring seems hard to believe right now.

A more likely outcome that alot of people have floated is that he will sell the company to NBC or some other giant media conglomerate and finally turn into the full-blown Disney of wrestling.
 
Agreed with your matches. That Ziggler-Miz feud was possibly the best feud of 2016 alongwith the Jericho-KO storyline. But the match that Ziggler won was the best of all. Miz even had a brilliant match with Roman on that weird Raw 30th celebration or whatever it was.

I'll be honest. I've never liked Bray as an in ring worker. Like he is just not coherent or fluent enough. The problem that Lashley suffers from as well. Like he just does the solitary moves after moves with no cohesion or transitions. Like playing a video game. The only good matches from Bray were that strap match with Bryan (solely due to Bryan's brilliance IMO) and his HIAC match with Roman back in 2015.
I just don't like characters that are just unbeatable. It makes them too monotonous and predictable. Braun's 2017 run was hot solely because he Reigns and Lesnar had been able to beat him and Finn almost beat him as well. Fiend was a good character no doubt, but Bray's in ring work needs improvement. Before Goldberg beat him in that bonkers match, I was actually rooting for Roman for the first time probably to beat someone cause I just couldn't stand an unpinnable guy. But WWE went the other way and had goldberg beat him in that 1 min match which wasn't even a match. It was so hilarious to be honest. It was just goldberg trying to get bray's hand out of his mouth for 1 min and then a suplex for a win.

I don't know man I'm gonna have to disagree. I thought Bray had a number of excellent matches at the start of his career. The one against Cena at Payback stands out. But there were other good-great ones too like the one against Bryan at Rumble, Roman at HIAC (which you mentioned), Cena at Mania, Moxley at TLC. He was not a great wrestler and definitely a much better promo but I always thought he could work. His problem in my eyes for a number of years was bad booking. And a gimmick that had simply gotten stale.

And then he came up with The Fiend gimmick which I thought was incredible and so interesting. But there again WWE backed him into a corner by making him unpinnable. Which is simply not sustainable. And the Oldberg squash was a massive nail in his coffin. Alot of people criticize WWE for not making new stars. But thing is how can you make new stars if you are squashing him at the hands of 50 year old part-timers. And they did this with Kevin Owens and Kofi too.

But yeah I definitely agree on the making a guy unpinnable part. Its an utterly stupid thing to do. I did like the no-selling and red lights (sometimes) though lol. It looked cool and made him look unique.
 
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Agreed with your matches. That Ziggler-Miz feud was possibly the best feud of 2016 alongwith the Jericho-KO storyline. But the match that Ziggler won was the best of all. Miz even had a brilliant match with Roman on that weird Raw 30th celebration or whatever it was.

I'll be honest. I've never liked Bray as an in ring worker. Like he is just not coherent or fluent enough. The problem that Lashley suffers from as well. Like he just does the solitary moves after moves with no cohesion or transitions. Like playing a video game. The only good matches from Bray were that strap match with Bryan (solely due to Bryan's brilliance IMO) and his HIAC match with Roman back in 2015.
I just don't like characters that are just unbeatable. It makes them too monotonous and predictable. Braun's 2017 run was hot solely because he Reigns and Lesnar had been able to beat him and Finn almost beat him as well. Fiend was a good character no doubt, but Bray's in ring work needs improvement. Before Goldberg beat him in that bonkers match, I was actually rooting for Roman for the first time probably to beat someone cause I just couldn't stand an unpinnable guy. But WWE went the other way and had goldberg beat him in that 1 min match which wasn't even a match. It was so hilarious to be honest. It was just goldberg trying to get bray's hand out of his mouth for 1 min and then a suplex for a win.

2016 WWE was simply elite. Even other minor storylines like Heath Slater getting a contract were fun. And both shows were very good. I really enjoyed the AJ-Ambrose storyline too. And then obviously there was Cena v AJ, Miz v Ziggler and KO/Jericho. It amazing how quickly things went downhill almost immediately in 2017.
 
Yeah but part of that is also that they do only 4 PPV's a year. And since they are a new company they need these guys on to drive the ratings up.

The problem with that happening for me was that Omega was the World Champion at the time. And you couldn't have made him look weak if he was going to out over Page later. The Page-Omega storyline had a year of build-up so that was always the more important match. Plus I feel like Omega vs Bryan is something they will revisit a number of times again. And a match like the one they had...that ended in a draw makes the audience want/anticipate them in the ring even more. Also, its not like Bryan two matches with Page weren't classics. They built Bryan up as a very credible challenger with the promos and the first match. But eventually Page had to go over.

At any rate, I would say that I am really happy with the way both Punk and Bryan are being used currently. As a wrestling fan I want to see Bryan wrestle as much as possible because he is someone who can have a great match with even a broomstick. I thought his match against Le Moriarity last week was excellent. And I have never been interested in Lee Moriarty (from whatever little I have seen of him) until now. And a huge part of that is Bryan. Plus the Bryan-Moxley storyline is intriguing and I am interested to see where is goes and ends. Must admit Bryan have a stable of young pure wrestlers is something I want to see. And I'm a big Moxley fan too.

And Punk's feud with MJF has also been executed to perfection and I am so glad that they went full-on old school with a freaking Dog Collar match. Cannot wait to see that.

You have to draw the line somewhere and make fans buy the PPV’s to, as of late there have been way too many specials and all sorts of gimmick matches on TV, I would have paid to see Punk vs MJF on PPV. If their ratings become too dependent on high profile PPV like episodes, their product can suffer in the long run, you have to tone it down, you stack the line up every week then fans become de-sensitised to the shock value and you become increasingly dependent on that opposed to good creative.

They could have done things differently then conveying that Page beat the guy who just about managed to get level with Omega, surely they can do better then that for both guys, if he wasn’t going over he didn’t have to wrestle him, it’s also another example of giving away a dream match for free, I don’t think that was on PPV either. Obviously, watching Bryan wrestle in any capacity is a pleasure, I’ve enjoyed his work everywhere no matter where he’s on the card but that can’t be used to book him like a mug when he is wrestling royalty. I don’t any complaints with the fantastic MJF/Punk feud besides the nonsensical Wardlow/Punk match, I haven’t watched this weeks episode, to be fair I watch youtube highlights mostly
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

What did you think of Elimination Chamber? I know WWE loves that Saudi blood money but doing proper PPV there and having 3 women's matches on the card when you know they are going to make them wrestle in full-sleeved t-shirts was just ridiculous. Rousey by the looks of, literally just walked out of her hotel room bed and into the ring lol.

And I wouldn't have cared there was something on there. But this was essentially a one match show. And even that ended surprisingly quickly for an Elimination Chamber match.
 
You have to draw the line somewhere and make fans buy the PPV’s to, as of late there have been way too many specials and all sorts of gimmick matches on TV, I would have paid to see Punk vs MJF on PPV. If their ratings become too dependent on high profile PPV like episodes, their product can suffer in the long run, you have to tone it down, you stack the line up every week then fans become de-sensitised to the shock value and you become increasingly dependent on that opposed to good creative.

They could have done things differently then conveying that Page beat the guy who just about managed to get level with Omega, surely they can do better then that for both guys, if he wasn’t going over he didn’t have to wrestle him, it’s also another example of giving away a dream match for free, I don’t think that was on PPV either. Obviously, watching Bryan wrestle in any capacity is a pleasure, I’ve enjoyed his work everywhere no matter where he’s on the card but that can’t be used to book him like a mug when he is wrestling royalty. I don’t any complaints with the fantastic MJF/Punk feud besides the nonsensical Wardlow/Punk match, I haven’t watched this weeks episode, to be fair I watch youtube highlights mostly

Yeah I see what you mean. I think both shouldn't lose to a young guy now for a long time. Because if another young guy beats them than that diminishes whatever rub MJF and Page got off them. Personally I think AEW's booking is mostly logical despite some ups and downs. So I am willing to give them a chance.

Personally I don't mind high-profile matches on TV either. Fact is AEW is not that big as a company and going into the PPV is a big risk that doesn't always work out as TNA found out. The market is heavily saturated because combat sports. I think their strategy is to build enough name recognition that people don't even think twice before buying their PPVs. And the only way you can build an audience is through TV.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

What did you think of Elimination Chamber? I know WWE loves that Saudi blood money but doing proper PPV there and having 3 women's matches on the card when you know they are going to make them wrestle in full-sleeved t-shirts was just ridiculous. Rousey by the looks of, literally just walked out of her hotel room bed and into the ring lol.

And I wouldn't have cared there was something on there. But this was essentially a one match show. And even that ended surprisingly quickly for an Elimination Chamber match.

Come on bro it’s not blood money lol smark yankies are the last people who should take a moral stand on that one when you look at their foreign policy. I never watched the Rousey match but that’s her Judo attire it does look like a night gown come to think of it :))) I don’t see the point in them wearing the body suits, in some ways it was a bit more out there if you catch my drift lmao Saudis are the biggest hypocrites anyway

I had a few days left on my subscription and watched selective matches, the Reigns/Goldberg fight, Lita/Becky and the main-event. It was an average PPV really, more of a spectacle opposed to fascinating in ring action, I fast forwarded the chamber match to when AJ Styles got in lol I wanted to see more of a back and forth between him and Lesnar who is absolutely hilarious in this obnoxious baby face character, apparently him coming into the match the way be did was a shoot lol I was scared for Austin Theory taking that crazy bump. Not much to make of it tbh thing is, technically it’s not really a ‘PPV’ anymore is it ?
 
[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Also there is a rumour that they knew lashley has been injured for weeks ? if that’s the case what a crappy way to write him out, I hope it’s scripted but I don’t know, that’s just cheap, not only did they deceive fans by advertising him but also demeaned Lashley most likely a vindictive move from them
 
Yeah I see what you mean. I think both shouldn't lose to a young guy now for a long time. Because if another young guy beats them than that diminishes whatever rub MJF and Page got off them. Personally I think AEW's booking is mostly logical despite some ups and downs. So I am willing to give them a chance.

Personally I don't mind high-profile matches on TV either. Fact is AEW is not that big as a company and going into the PPV is a big risk that doesn't always work out as TNA found out. The market is heavily saturated because combat sports. I think their strategy is to build enough name recognition that people don't even think twice before buying their PPVs. And the only way you can build an audience is through TV.

I do rate them right now if am honest with you as a weekly programme compared to RAW/SD it’s not perfect but the best out there, I can’t judge entire episodes but I have been loving select segments especially those involving MJF/Punk it’s sure to be PWI feud of the year, best thing in wrestling today

That’s a fair point on the PPV market it’s tough. At the same time I still want them to try and not give too much away but still focus on creative weekly, but I would have loved MJF/Punk on PPV without the adds etc it would have been epic but am sure the rematch will be
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

What did you think of Elimination Chamber? I know WWE loves that Saudi blood money but doing proper PPV there and having 3 women's matches on the card when you know they are going to make them wrestle in full-sleeved t-shirts was just ridiculous. Rousey by the looks of, literally just walked out of her hotel room bed and into the ring lol.

And I wouldn't have cared there was something on there. But this was essentially a one match show. And even that ended surprisingly quickly for an Elimination Chamber match.

I don't actually have any problem with WWE doing business with Saudi Arabia. Every government does heinous crimes in almost every country in the world. WWE does shows in India and Japan as well. Japan has a history of tormenting the Chinese and it's usually said BJP were involved in Gujarat attacks against Muslims. No government is ever clean. Even USA has done so many war crimes in Afg, Iraq and Syria etc. Ashley was allegedly raped in a tribute to troops event by an allegedly American guy there, nothing was made of it. I am sure if Israel offers WWE money, they would do shows there as well and all the media would be calling it a victory of some sort when in reality Israel govt has done so many human rights violations but USA Canada UK etc all seem to brush it under the carpet.

Regarding Saudia, Vince does what he thinks is best for his company, he is doing business, he is making money which is benefitting him and probably his employees get a good paycheck from these shows as well. They did a show in UAE a few years ago, Sasha and Alexa wrestled in full clothes there as well. It's not just Saudia. Plus I have always found the wrestling gear of females way too revealing and stuff to add anything positive in the look. It's part of the culture of the country and if you're doing shows there, you need to be respectful of it. Like Randy said, I am an employee, I have signed a contract. I just do what my company tells me to do. Io Shirai, Raquel Gonzalez, Ivory, Molly Holly all have used pretty covered attire throughout their careers so it's not like it's the first time.

Regarding the quality of the show, it was awful. Like literally awful. Awful matches, no coherence, small little matches bearing no significance, predictable results(except Lesnar winning), too many fillers, too less of wrestling.

Matches were poorly produced. The only good thing about the show was Brock and Austin Theory 5 mins. The rest of the show was crap.

Crown Jewel was amazing. But they failed to do it this time probably cause they just didnt care about putting on a good show and are just concentrating on Wrestlemania.

Regarding Rousey, I have always have mixed feelings towards her. She is usually a good worker. Like she sells very well. Her speed, agility, believability and fluency is brilliant. But something about her really ticks me off. She has just one emotion with her monotonic angry face all the time. No promo skills. And tbh I have always found her usual outfit pretty poor. She is trying to adjust her shorts every 30 seconds.

Becky is a better more well rounded package. But I would love to see Becky and Rousey wrestle 20 mins together if the result isn't predictable.
 
I feel like Vince is the type of guy who probably thinks deep down that if he built the company he should be the one to burn it down to the ground. He has probably internalized this with his braindead booking. But I dunno, the idea of him retiring seems hard to believe right now.

A more likely outcome that alot of people have floated is that he will sell the company to NBC or some other giant media conglomerate and finally turn into the full-blown Disney of wrestling.

I don't think he would ever think about burning his company down. It's a cash cow still and bringing in record profits. So everything is good with him from that point of view. There is definitely a good chance o it getting sold to a bigger corp like Disney or something in the future.
 
I don't know man I'm gonna have to disagree. I thought Bray had a number of excellent matches at the start of his career. The one against Cena at Payback stands out. But there were other good-great ones too like the one against Bryan at Rumble, Roman at HIAC (which you mentioned), Cena at Mania, Moxley at TLC. He was not a great wrestler and definitely a much better promo but I always thought he could work. His problem in my eyes for a number of years was bad booking. And a gimmick that had simply gotten stale.

And then he came up with The Fiend gimmick which I thought was incredible and so interesting. But there again WWE backed him into a corner by making him unpinnable. Which is simply not sustainable. And the Oldberg squash was a massive nail in his coffin. Alot of people criticize WWE for not making new stars. But thing is how can you make new stars if you are squashing him at the hands of 50 year old part-timers. And they did this with Kevin Owens and Kofi too.

But yeah I definitely agree on the making a guy unpinnable part. Its an utterly stupid thing to do. I did like the no-selling and red lights (sometimes) though lol. It looked cool and made him look unique.

I think Kofi was never meant to be a guy who could become a flag bearer for the company atleast in Vince's eyes even though he loves the new day.

I think they have done a great job with building Drew and Roman and probably Seth.
I don't see Goldberg or some other legend coming and squashing them.

But yes I do agree that they need to make more stars especially with all the talent they have at their disposal.
 
2016 WWE was simply elite. Even other minor storylines like Heath Slater getting a contract were fun. And both shows were very good. I really enjoyed the AJ-Ambrose storyline too. And then obviously there was Cena v AJ, Miz v Ziggler and KO/Jericho. It amazing how quickly things went downhill almost immediately in 2017.

I'd still say nothing comes close to 2018 NXT. That was the best year for pure wrestling fans in a long long time. Being an NXT fan during that had sort of become a cool thing to do. It was that good really.
 
I'd still say nothing comes close to 2018 NXT. That was the best year for pure wrestling fans in a long long time. Being an NXT fan during that had sort of become a cool thing to do. It was that good really.

NXT at that time was very special and consistent, it reminded me a bit of ROH but with thigh production values.

The in-ring action was truly groundbreaking and the perfect blend of old school / new school, a great deal of effort was made to develop characters and storylines. I rarely recall much from shows or events or feuds from the last few years but NXT had so many memorable moments that are hard to forget because of how well they were built, also helped take the women’s division to the next level.

Off topic, I just read a transcript of Edge’s promo on RAW where he hinted at a potential mania match with AJ. If this happens, man I’d be so excited for it, with Edge involved am hopeful they will avoid any dead spots on the card and get a bit of freedom to create a potential MOTY candidate. Genuine dream match.
 
NXT at that time was very special and consistent, it reminded me a bit of ROH but with thigh production values.

The in-ring action was truly groundbreaking and the perfect blend of old school / new school, a great deal of effort was made to develop characters and storylines. I rarely recall much from shows or events or feuds from the last few years but NXT had so many memorable moments that are hard to forget because of how well they were built, also helped take the women’s division to the next level.

Off topic, I just read a transcript of Edge’s promo on RAW where he hinted at a potential mania match with AJ. If this happens, man I’d be so excited for it, with Edge involved am hopeful they will avoid any dead spots on the card and get a bit of freedom to create a potential MOTY candidate. Genuine dream match.

Haven't watched Raw yet. Have a big big exam this friday. Not getting any free time these days. Will do so on the weekend hopefully.

Yes I agree. ROH is pretty underrated.
 
Haven't watched Raw yet. Have a big big exam this friday. Not getting any free time these days. Will do so on the weekend hopefully.

Yes I agree. ROH is pretty underrated.

Good luck with the exam. I use to get the whole show on and then skip between segments and matches, now it’s mostly youtube. Whenever I’ve watched a WWE PPV more recently I regret it every time and am very selective, always follow the Boxing religiously though.

Am very sour from the Royal Rumble, I don’t know if I will get the Network but I be more tempted by the other stuff they have on there like the documentaries and brilliant archive library
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what do you think of the heel turn of Roman?

I’m loving every second of it so far, I remember watching Summerslam first time I sat down to watch WWE live in a while and oh man Roman’s return would blown the roof off the place had there been an audience. I knew from the very moment being a pretty big Roman fan that he turned heel even before we saw him allign with Paul. The only complaint I have is this should of been done with an actual audience in place. Can you imagine the P O P if Roman Turned heel at Wrestlemania 37 or the Rumble with an actual audience. Would have been the biggest pop since Foley winning the title imo, the place would of gone bonkers. However, ratings have been down and I guess if you wanna draw ratings while competing with a packer Fall season with NBA Playoffs, NFL, and MLB all going on simultaneously you turn Roman heel.

Also Roman winning the championship he never lost was just perfect, the contract signing was a bit weird, but WWE told us with that match that WWE is going full on with the heel turn, which is the right thing to do. I think it’s going to be interesting seeing the dynamic between Brock and Roman now, however, once Brock eventually returns. I would really like to see them form a tag team when they’re both together and just wreck the whole roster.

Wow didn't think 550 days later Roman Reigns would still be Universal Champion! Absolutely mind blowing, and while I haven't been keeping up with WWE as much these past few years, I must say this World Title reign has to go down as one of the greatest in WWE history, utter dominance from Roman. Also I'm someone who has been a Roman fan from day 1, even when it was cool to hate him he was my favorite wrestler at the time with AJ, amazing to see he's finally showing everyone why he was chosen as the next face of the company. I really hope he beats Brock at Mania and wins both titles.

Roman really shouldn't lose the universal championship until somebody is truly ready to dethrone him. I honestly would love it if he held on to the title for 5+ years. It's different and I mean what's the point of him losing the title for a month here and there just to win it back when he's obviously still the top dog. Keep the belt on him Vince, Roman Reigns needs to be universal champion until he retires lol.
 
Thinking about it some more I truly do not think Roman should lose the title for the foreseeable future. I honestly think he should hold on to the belt for as long as he's a full time performer.

Think about it this reign has catapulted him to another level, he's now cemented alongside the greatest superstars in WWE history. The Universal Title is now Roman's belt. The title means far more now than when he initially won it. WWE needs to be very careful about ending this title reign. It would need to be someone who can keep the title at the level that it is now, it can't just be someone who uses the title to get over. And I highly doubt anyone can keep the title at the level Roman has kept it.

Plus, it's not like Roman is running out of challengers he can still face Seth Rollins, (I really want to see a full fledged feud between the two) AJ Styles (Seeing how good their first feud was, and considering how much better Roman has gotten this feud would be produce even better matches than it did in 2016), Randy Orton, Finn Balor, Drew McIntyre, Big E, Kofi Kingston, The Rock (I was really hoping for Roman vs Rock at Mania this year, this match would break all sorts of records), and soo many more!

When the title reign does eventually end (in 5+ years) it needs to be done by the next "big thing." We can't have Brock, Cena, Randy or some legend like that ending the title reign. Sure, Brock would probably be the most believable person to end the title run, but what does that really accomplish? I think WWE needs to start grooming somebody within the next few years like they groomed Roman and have that person dethrone Roman at say WrestleMania 43-45. However, as great as that sounds I highly doubt WWE will keep the title on Roman past next years WrestleMania.
 
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Also hearing that AJ vs Edge might happen at Mania?!? Finally! I've been waiting for this match since Edge returned! True Dream Match! AJ along with Shawn is my favorite in ring performer of all time and seeing him finally return to singles competition is great! Also Edge was one of my favs growing up! This will be an instant classic, 7 star match as Dave Meltzer would rate it lol! I feel bad for everyone that will have to follow this match of the year.
 
Also hearing that AJ vs Edge might happen at Mania?!? Finally! I've been waiting for this match since Edge returned! True Dream Match! AJ along with Shawn is my favorite in ring performer of all time and seeing him finally return to singles competition is great! Also Edge was one of my favs growing up! This will be an instant classic, 7 star match as Dave Meltzer would rate it lol! I feel bad for everyone that will have to follow this match of the year.

Reigns has had an amazing run as champion and am loving that they finally booked AJ v Edge. But if am honest with you, am more invested in AEW these days; their feuds don’t feel forced and conscious effort is made to build the big matches, look at the first episode to start the build to AJ/Edge - it escalated so quickly with Edge going for the concerto with the chairs lol I know they will deliver in coming weeks but this is an example of laziness, in the network era with so many secured subscribers and fans with short attention spans, WWE is lazy with their creative and there is not enough edge to get my juices flowing - everything is overly scripted, I youtube wrestling now anyway but AEW has me more excited especially Punk, MJF and Bryan

Punk vs MJF is the best thing in wrestling right now and anything Bryan touches turns to gold. I need to see AEW revolution what a stacked card
 
Scott Hall is on life support following 3 heart attacks after hip surgery. I understand his family are preparing to request the life support is turned off as per a post by Kevin Nash on social media.

Very very distressing news [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]
 
Scott Hall is on life support following 3 heart attacks after hip surgery. I understand his family are preparing to request the life support is turned off as per a post by Kevin Nash on social media.

Very very distressing news [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

Horrible news.
 
I'd still say nothing comes close to 2018 NXT. That was the best year for pure wrestling fans in a long long time. Being an NXT fan during that had sort of become a cool thing to do. It was that good really.

NXT during this period was truly incredible. HHH had gotten all the best young wrestlers under one roof and some of the stuff they put on during that period was truly unbelievable. NXT for me essentially became the successor to ROH during this period. And now I feel AEW has taken over that mantle of the company that has the best wrestling on the most consistent basis.
 
NXT during this period was truly incredible. HHH had gotten all the best young wrestlers under one roof and some of the stuff they put on during that period was truly unbelievable. NXT for me essentially became the successor to ROH during this period. And now I feel AEW has taken over that mantle of the company that has the best wrestling on the most consistent basis.

On the whole I’d say AEW is an entity of its own, peak ROH and NXT were a different breed and style altogether. AEW is more of a jack of all trades type promotion which attempts to cater to all the different groups of enthusiasts, you got the modern era hipster smarks, indies golden era smarks, territory era smarks and AE/RA era smarks. That’s their strategy though I guess opposed to developing a unique identity of their own in terms of style and presentation.

I wont watch an entire show but they are good enough for me because they give me reasons to tune into select segments involving the likes of Punk, Bryan and MJF; I will rarely tune in to the others unless these guys are involved.

I really enjoyed the Punk/MJF match, it’s another MOTY contender from Punk. As Mo. Asif once said, a fish never forgets to swim and am going out on a limb to say that I feel Punk is even better then ever, he’s a student of the game and all his past experiences and influences really show in his promo and character work, he legit gets it man, Punk’s the man and the best baby face in the world since his return. MJF is a big star in his own right and has shown he can hang in there with a big dog in the ring.

The other match I watched was Bryan/Mox, I liked the story they are going for here, it’s a slow burn and doesn’t feel forced, the ring action was decent.

The rest of the card didn’t interest me but you may have caught it
 
NXT during this period was truly incredible. HHH had gotten all the best young wrestlers under one roof and some of the stuff they put on during that period was truly unbelievable. NXT for me essentially became the successor to ROH during this period. And now I feel AEW has taken over that mantle of the company that has the best wrestling on the most consistent basis.

AEW has more star power but inexperienced trainers, bookers, promoters and I think there are no writers at all or a performance center till now. Heard when Matt Hardy fell on concrete floor, the "doctor" who was called to check up on him was a vet.

AEW needs to get rid of comedy wrestling and wrestlers continuously doing stupid cartoonish facial expressions. I didn't get the point of booking a feud with an intense guy like Adam Cole feuding and even losing to Orange Cassidy. I expect things to get better now that they have William Regal.
Plus Page has been a failure so far as a champion. He doesn't walk or talk like the top guy and is definitely not drawing.

The stuff they're doing with MJF-Punk, Mox-Bryan and Wardlow of recent has been captivating and that's how pro wrestling should be.

I don't like Bucks goofing around or Luchasaurus acting as if he's a real dinosaur.
 
On the whole I’d say AEW is an entity of its own, peak ROH and NXT were a different breed and style altogether. AEW is more of a jack of all trades type promotion which attempts to cater to all the different groups of enthusiasts, you got the modern era hipster smarks, indies golden era smarks, territory era smarks and AE/RA era smarks. That’s their strategy though I guess opposed to developing a unique identity of their own in terms of style and presentation.

I wont watch an entire show but they are good enough for me because they give me reasons to tune into select segments involving the likes of Punk, Bryan and MJF; I will rarely tune in to the others unless these guys are involved.

I really enjoyed the Punk/MJF match, it’s another MOTY contender from Punk. As Mo. Asif once said, a fish never forgets to swim and am going out on a limb to say that I feel Punk is even better then ever, he’s a student of the game and all his past experiences and influences really show in his promo and character work, he legit gets it man, Punk’s the man and the best baby face in the world since his return. MJF is a big star in his own right and has shown he can hang in there with a big dog in the ring.

The other match I watched was Bryan/Mox, I liked the story they are going for here, it’s a slow burn and doesn’t feel forced, the ring action was decent.

The rest of the card didn’t interest me but you may have caught it

Oh no I agree with you on that. My point was that AEW, when it started out, felt like a polished version of ROH. Not just because it had alot of ROH's top guys but also because it signed alot of hottest young talent: Darby MJF, Sammy etc. Now though it has become its own thing. But I also feel like its rise has in a way, made ROH obsolete because that was the place people used to go to see the best wrestling and the best rising stars in wrestling for a pretty long time.



I think Punk v MJF might be my favorite match in AEW yet. I've thought long and hard about it and this one pips Danielson v Omega. Just because it was so perfectly executed from the first interaction these two had, right down to that match. I especially loved Punk coming out to his ROH theme, in his ROH attire. And the match was exactly what it needed to be. I agree that Punk is a student of the game, but I feel like MJF is too. Because everything that MJF does means something---whether its on the ring or on the mic---and with this feud he has shown that more than ever for me. I think they should seriously think about putting the belt on him, because Adam Page's title run has gotten really stale for me.

Bryan vs Mox was easily the next best thing for me on the show too. Both guys went out and just had a great wrestling match. Loved the finish and loved even more the sight of William Regal coming out. Both these guys are two of my favorite wrestlers so I am fully here for another reincarnation of the Two Man Power Trip. And honestly who wouldn't want to see these two with all the belts, and all the best young talents by their side? This angle has lot of potential to be something great.

As far as the rest of the show is concerned, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Eddie Kingston vs Chris Jericho. Eddie ofcourse is brilliant and the modern day incarnation of the American Dream, in that everything he says and does feels real. But credit to Jericho who is onto something with his latest heel turn and he has really slimmed out and leaned up in recent weeks. He and Kingston essentially worked a hard-hitting All-Japan style match and man oh man Jericho took some brutal bumps in this. But it was pretty great and certainly the best wrestling match I have seen Jericho involved in, in AEW.

Apart from that The Face of the Revolution ladder match had the potential to be great, but wasn't exactly so. Despite alot of great talent involved, there were too many moments where guys just wandered off around the arena, while the other guys in the ring were laid out for minutes. Wardlow in particular showed his green-ness with certain spots, but the match still had some cool moments/spots.

And I don't know what it is about the Bucks, but I always find myself enjoying their PPV matches to a great extent. And this was no different. It was high-paced and exciting. The presence of reDRagon really elevated the whole thing and I honestly can't ever recall Jurassic Express looking this good.

Most disappointing match of the night was easily Adam Page v Adam Cole. This match had almost no heat and I don't think anyone really believed that Cole was winning this. They did some good wrestling in until the match just devolved into a typical TNA/WWE style big match where everyone is just kicking out of big moves.

Thunder Rosa v Britt Baker was probably the worst match of the night with endless amounts of interference. But overall I thought it was an awesome show that I massively enjoyed. AEW's PPVs feel like PPVs. There is very little filler, and ALOT of whopper matches. Can't wait for Double or Nothing.
 
AEW has more star power but inexperienced trainers, bookers, promoters and I think there are no writers at all or a performance center till now. Heard when Matt Hardy fell on concrete floor, the "doctor" who was called to check up on him was a vet.

AEW needs to get rid of comedy wrestling and wrestlers continuously doing stupid cartoonish facial expressions. I didn't get the point of booking a feud with an intense guy like Adam Cole feuding and even losing to Orange Cassidy. I expect things to get better now that they have William Regal.
Plus Page has been a failure so far as a champion. He doesn't walk or talk like the top guy and is definitely not drawing.

The stuff they're doing with MJF-Punk, Mox-Bryan and Wardlow of recent has been captivating and that's how pro wrestling should be.

I don't like Bucks goofing around or Luchasaurus acting as if he's a real dinosaur.

I'm not a big fan of the comedy stuff myself but there is an audience for that. Watching AEW, the sense I get is that they like to offer a little something for everyone. There's some good wrestling and serious angles, there's high-spot wrestling/lucha-inspired stuff, there's alot of Japanese strong style wrestling, there's sports-entertainment stuff and then ofcourse there's the comedy wrestling.

But yeah, I agree that those three angles are easily the best and most captivating things they have going on. Adam Page has been a totally boring champion. And apart from the matches he had with Bryan and Omega, there's very little to hold onto anymore. The feud with Cole had zero heat and I don't think anyone believed that Cole was winning that match.

And while I can tolerate the comedy wrestling stuff, if there's one thing that has to be said, its that Cole's association with the Bucks has completely ruined his perception as a top guy. He is absolutely nothing like he was in NXT. And honestly, the quicker they start this break-up, the better it will be. I want to see the Undisputed Era back to their old glory, running roughshod, instead of them doing lame comedy in goofy segments.


That said, I have to say I am a big fan of Orange Cassidy.
 
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Oh no I agree with you on that. My point was that AEW, when it started out, felt like a polished version of ROH. Not just because it had alot of ROH's top guys but also because it signed alot of hottest young talent: Darby MJF, Sammy etc. Now though it has become its own thing. But I also feel like its rise has in a way, made ROH obsolete because that was the place people used to go to see the best wrestling and the best rising stars in wrestling for a pretty long time.



I think Punk v MJF might be my favorite match in AEW yet. I've thought long and hard about it and this one pips Danielson v Omega. Just because it was so perfectly executed from the first interaction these two had, right down to that match. I especially loved Punk coming out to his ROH theme, in his ROH attire. And the match was exactly what it needed to be. I agree that Punk is a student of the game, but I feel like MJF is too. Because everything that MJF does means something---whether its on the ring or on the mic---and with this feud he has shown that more than ever for me. I think they should seriously think about putting the belt on him, because Adam Page's title run has gotten really stale for me.

Bryan vs Mox was easily the next best thing for me on the show too. Both guys went out and just had a great wrestling match. Loved the finish and loved even more the sight of William Regal coming out. Both these guys are two of my favorite wrestlers so I am fully here for another reincarnation of the Two Man Power Trip. And honestly who wouldn't want to see these two with all the belts, and all the best young talents by their side? This angle has lot of potential to be something great.

As far as the rest of the show is concerned, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Eddie Kingston vs Chris Jericho. Eddie ofcourse is brilliant and the modern day incarnation of the American Dream, in that everything he says and does feels real. But credit to Jericho who is onto something with his latest heel turn and he has really slimmed out and leaned up in recent weeks. He and Kingston essentially worked a hard-hitting All-Japan style match and man oh man Jericho took some brutal bumps in this. But it was pretty great and certainly the best wrestling match I have seen Jericho involved in, in AEW.

Apart from that The Face of the Revolution ladder match had the potential to be great, but wasn't exactly so. Despite alot of great talent involved, there were too many moments where guys just wandered off around the arena, while the other guys in the ring were laid out for minutes. Wardlow in particular showed his green-ness with certain spots, but the match still had some cool moments/spots.

And I don't know what it is about the Bucks, but I always find myself enjoying their PPV matches to a great extent. And this was no different. It was high-paced and exciting. The presence of reDRagon really elevated the whole thing and I honestly can't ever recall Jurassic Express looking this good.

Most disappointing match of the night was easily Adam Page v Adam Cole. This match had almost no heat and I don't think anyone really believed that Cole was winning this. They did some good wrestling in until the match just devolved into a typical TNA/WWE style big match where everyone is just kicking out of big moves.

Thunder Rosa v Britt Baker was probably the worst match of the night with endless amounts of interference. But overall I thought it was an awesome show that I massively enjoyed. AEW's PPVs feel like PPVs. There is very little filler, and ALOT of whopper matches. Can't wait for Double or Nothing.

You’ve sort of confirmed why I didn’t bother with the rest of the card lol I just have an itch for what is worth the time, I didn’t expect Cole and Page to set the night on fire either; sometimes when you look at how a feud is built, it gives you an indication of what to expect, am not surprised Jericho and Kingston was good I felt it would be but didn’t get around to seeing it, Jericho was in shape as you say and more motivated, their back and forth on the mic was great to watch; you think that was his best match for the company? I liked Jericho v Cody for the world title (think it’s the one where if Cody lost he doesn’t get another shot), there may be others but I may not have seen them.

Punk coming out in his indie gear and theme added to one of the points in the story of MJF doubting if Punk could bring back any fight from his prime years, every little thing Punk has done meant something. MJF is great but Punk is on another level right now, ATG level, he’s channeling Bret, Piper and Dusty all in one, the. uses his past high level experiences in the WWE and indie circuit to depict a very high in-ring IQ. I agree that as it stands MJF would make a better champion then Page who I don’t feel has been booked right, but there is so much more for MJF to grow - especially with regards to his ring work, it’s a shame Bryan is a heel because he would have been a great guy for him to work with, MJF needs more high level ring experience, he can be more polished imo but it’s not a criticism because he is the real deal and I can see him getting even better.
 
Punk/MJF was my wrestlemania main event man, what a feud if has been and a fitting finale. There’s not too much to get excited about for WM but I will be looking out for these:

Edge/Styles
Lesnar/Reigns
Ronda/Charlotte
The segment involving KO/Austin, don’t know if it will be a match but should be a good bit of fun

Cody/Rollins is a great match up if this happens but not sure, Meltzer is saying it could but things could also change…

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]
 
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Great tribute by Bret Hart for Razor , it’s clear that professional Wrestling while loved for its entertainment has almost taken a toll on Wrestler’s lives.

I cannot in anyway support this anymore, the damage done is ridiculous!
 
Great tribute by Bret Hart for Razor , it’s clear that professional Wrestling while loved for its entertainment has almost taken a toll on Wrestler’s lives.

I cannot in anyway support this anymore, the damage done is ridiculous!

While wrestling is not what it use to now, a big reason for that is the damage done in the 80s and 90’s. Post Benoit incident in 2007, they have a wellness policy, chair shots to the head are banned and while the travel schedule is still brutal, great efforts have been made to minimise wear and tear. I doubt we will see the current crop struggle in the same way decades from now imo but those from the past era, it’s always going to be tricky waters sadly due to how they lived life in and out the ring
 
Punk/MJF was my wrestlemania main event man, what a feud if has been and a fitting finale. There’s not too much to get excited about for WM but I will be looking out for these:

Edge/Styles
Lesnar/Reigns
Ronda/Charlotte
The segment involving KO/Austin, don’t know if it will be a match but should be a good bit of fun

Cody/Rollins is a great match up if this happens but not sure, Meltzer is saying it could but things could also change…

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

I'm excited for even less. I was more excited for last year's WrestleMania even though it was largely a dud.

For me its gotta be Edge/Styles, The KO-Austin Segment, Lesnar/Reigns and Cody/Rollins if its actually a match and not a 2 minute squash.

Have a feeling they are gonna have Cody debut at Mania. And in such a case it could be a quick match...kind of in the vein of Cena/Taker from few years back. Lesnar/Reigns though is easily the biggest money match they have put up in years. And I have high expectations from that.

Don't care about Ronda/Charlotte at all for some reason.
 
You’ve sort of confirmed why I didn’t bother with the rest of the card lol I just have an itch for what is worth the time, I didn’t expect Cole and Page to set the night on fire either; sometimes when you look at how a feud is built, it gives you an indication of what to expect, am not surprised Jericho and Kingston was good I felt it would be but didn’t get around to seeing it, Jericho was in shape as you say and more motivated, their back and forth on the mic was great to watch; you think that was his best match for the company? I liked Jericho v Cody for the world title (think it’s the one where if Cody lost he doesn’t get another shot), there may be others but I may not have seen them.

Punk coming out in his indie gear and theme added to one of the points in the story of MJF doubting if Punk could bring back any fight from his prime years, every little thing Punk has done meant something. MJF is great but Punk is on another level right now, ATG level, he’s channeling Bret, Piper and Dusty all in one, the. uses his past high level experiences in the WWE and indie circuit to depict a very high in-ring IQ. I agree that as it stands MJF would make a better champion then Page who I don’t feel has been booked right, but there is so much more for MJF to grow - especially with regards to his ring work, it’s a shame Bryan is a heel because he would have been a great guy for him to work with, MJF needs more high level ring experience, he can be more polished imo but it’s not a criticism because he is the real deal and I can see him getting even better.

Jericho seems to be embracing the sports entertainment stuff that all his stuff tends to be drenched in. Which is smart and something that could get him over good as a heel with this smart audience. He called himself a sports entertainer on the last episode of Dynamite. And honestly its much better than the garbage he has been doing ever since he lost the belt. The feud has made for compelling TV thus far. Probably because of what a contrast the two guys are to each other. And yeah, I think its easily his best match in the company so far. Far better than the Cody match, which I thought was good but not great.

Oh no doubt. Punk and Danielson are the masters of in-ring psychology. I was actually amazed at how much Danielson was able to elevate Lee Moriarity a few weeks back, in a match in which he beat the absolute snot out of Moriarty and won with the triangle choke all while flexing his muscles. Both him and Punk are simply in a league of their own.

The thing that shocks me about MJF is how advanced he is for his age. He is just 26 but his understanding of wrestling is well beyond his years. I can't even imagine how good he will be 10 years from now when he is just 36. I agree that he needs to work with the best and earn more in-ring experience, but even then he is easily the best worker and promo among all the young guys. And that includes Adam Page.
 
I'm not a big fan of the comedy stuff myself but there is an audience for that. Watching AEW, the sense I get is that they like to offer a little something for everyone. There's some good wrestling and serious angles, there's high-spot wrestling/lucha-inspired stuff, there's alot of Japanese strong style wrestling, there's sports-entertainment stuff and then ofcourse there's the comedy wrestling.

But yeah, I agree that those three angles are easily the best and most captivating things they have going on. Adam Page has been a totally boring champion. And apart from the matches he had with Bryan and Omega, there's very little to hold onto anymore. The feud with Cole had zero heat and I don't think anyone believed that Cole was winning that match.

And while I can tolerate the comedy wrestling stuff, if there's one thing that has to be said, its that Cole's association with the Bucks has completely ruined his perception as a top guy. He is absolutely nothing like he was in NXT. And honestly, the quicker they start this break-up, the better it will be. I want to see the Undisputed Era back to their old glory, running roughshod, instead of them doing lame comedy in goofy segments.


That said, I have to say I am a big fan of Orange Cassidy.

See that's what AEW has been missing the experience of booking. Cole's arrival was treated as a big deal but was quickly relegated to comedy stuff to the point that when he challenged Page for the title, it never looked believable because of Cole coming off straight from losing the feud to Cassidy. Bucks are cringe as well with their mannerisms and comedic stuff esp when they connect wrestling with their youtube channel. Nothing to take away from their in ring work as they are massively talented, but they definitely need pointers and notes from guys like Trips, HBK, Regal or even Henry. Their current position is the most they can come up with when they are on their own and they definitely have the potential to go to the hardy boyz level if they listen to and work with proper people. Plus I really feel their Meltzer driver is one of the most unsynced finisher combo. Like combining a tombstone with a swanton which visibly has no domino effect on either moves (reminds me of the Sheamus Cesaro combo of White noise and cesaro randomly jumping from the top rope on the guy during the Bar days)

The reason Bryan and Punk have had brilliant feuds and angles is because they have the experience of doing big game feel something a lot of the roster of AEW lacks.

I personally like all the styles (sports entertainment, NJPW, lucha stuff, flippy indie stuff, strong style) apart from comedy angle(when it's done at the top card level). I like Cassidy myself as well but they need to keep him away from top guys.

Another thing something AEW has been lacking is their inability to properly draw. With Punk and Bryan, they need to be drawing more and selling bigger arenas now (def not as big as WWE's big 4) but still atleast 40k maybe. WWE gets a lot of flak for during poor stuff(and rightly so) but what they usually do right is they are able to put on big shows which draws the people (i am not much interested in roman brock unification bout but that is something the casuals would be looking at).

Tony needs to hire guys with good experience of growing their fanbase from hardcore fans to more mainstream audience if they are to become a big long term force in wrestling industry. Maybe they can just take Laurinaitis and Prichard from WWE so we can get some better feuds in wwe :P
 
Excited about going to the o2 arena next month for the live tour! Cannot wait to see Roman reigns 😁
 
See that's what AEW has been missing the experience of booking. Cole's arrival was treated as a big deal but was quickly relegated to comedy stuff to the point that when he challenged Page for the title, it never looked believable because of Cole coming off straight from losing the feud to Cassidy. Bucks are cringe as well with their mannerisms and comedic stuff esp when they connect wrestling with their youtube channel. Nothing to take away from their in ring work as they are massively talented, but they definitely need pointers and notes from guys like Trips, HBK, Regal or even Henry. Their current position is the most they can come up with when they are on their own and they definitely have the potential to go to the hardy boyz level if they listen to and work with proper people. Plus I really feel their Meltzer driver is one of the most unsynced finisher combo. Like combining a tombstone with a swanton which visibly has no domino effect on either moves (reminds me of the Sheamus Cesaro combo of White noise and cesaro randomly jumping from the top rope on the guy during the Bar days)

The reason Bryan and Punk have had brilliant feuds and angles is because they have the experience of doing big game feel something a lot of the roster of AEW lacks.

I personally like all the styles (sports entertainment, NJPW, lucha stuff, flippy indie stuff, strong style) apart from comedy angle(when it's done at the top card level). I like Cassidy myself as well but they need to keep him away from top guys.

Another thing something AEW has been lacking is their inability to properly draw. With Punk and Bryan, they need to be drawing more and selling bigger arenas now (def not as big as WWE's big 4) but still atleast 40k maybe. WWE gets a lot of flak for during poor stuff(and rightly so) but what they usually do right is they are able to put on big shows which draws the people (i am not much interested in roman brock unification bout but that is something the casuals would be looking at).

Tony needs to hire guys with good experience of growing their fanbase from hardcore fans to more mainstream audience if they are to become a big long term force in wrestling industry. Maybe they can just take Laurinaitis and Prichard from WWE so we can get some better feuds in wwe :P

I agree. Tony is very new to this and likely doesn't have awareness regarding alot of things. I don't know if they can get HHH or HBK, but they have Regal. Samoa Joe and Gabe Sopolosky are free agents So they can be brought in. And just those guys alone will probably give him alot of useful advice about booking and wrestling that he may not necessarily be privy too.

With the Bucks, I think you kinda just have to suspend your disbelief in their matches. I think on PPVs they have put on some outstanding matches. But their style can be too much sometimes. So I can understand both points of views regarding them.

But yeah, they badly need Omega to get back so they can get this The Elite v Undisputed Era thing started. Because right now Cole's position isn't doing him any favors.

As far as the drawing power is concerned. I think its gonna take time. They've only been there for three years, and only last year got their two biggest stars. Some of it may even be down to Adam Page not being someone people care enough about yet. But I think they should be given more time to grow as a company and establish their brand. Because I think its tough to make it in this industry where only one company has dominated for over 20 years. While the others (IMPACT, ROH) have never been big enough to matter.

LOL Johnny Ace and Prichard leaving Vince won't change a thing. He'll probably find some other yes men. Because that's essentially what they are. The only people who can work for Vince as long as those two have, are either yes men or people who also worked for his dad.
 
I agree. Tony is very new to this and likely doesn't have awareness regarding alot of things. I don't know if they can get HHH or HBK, but they have Regal. Samoa Joe and Gabe Sopolosky are free agents So they can be brought in. And just those guys alone will probably give him alot of useful advice about booking and wrestling that he may not necessarily be privy too.

With the Bucks, I think you kinda just have to suspend your disbelief in their matches. I think on PPVs they have put on some outstanding matches. But their style can be too much sometimes. So I can understand both points of views regarding them.

But yeah, they badly need Omega to get back so they can get this The Elite v Undisputed Era thing started. Because right now Cole's position isn't doing him any favors.

As far as the drawing power is concerned. I think its gonna take time. They've only been there for three years, and only last year got their two biggest stars. Some of it may even be down to Adam Page not being someone people care enough about yet. But I think they should be given more time to grow as a company and establish their brand. Because I think its tough to make it in this industry where only one company has dominated for over 20 years. While the others (IMPACT, ROH) have never been big enough to matter.

LOL Johnny Ace and Prichard leaving Vince won't change a thing. He'll probably find some other yes men. Because that's essentially what they are. The only people who can work for Vince as long as those two have, are either yes men or people who also worked for his dad.

The best thing during Attitude era was that majority of the stories were interconnected and not just were happening in isolation. If AEW or WWE can book their shows in that fashion, the shows would become a lot more pacier.
 
Punk/MJF was my wrestlemania main event man, what a feud if has been and a fitting finale. There’s not too much to get excited about for WM but I will be looking out for these:

Edge/Styles
Lesnar/Reigns
Ronda/Charlotte
The segment involving KO/Austin, don’t know if it will be a match but should be a good bit of fun

Cody/Rollins is a great match up if this happens but not sure, Meltzer is saying it could but things could also change…

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Edge vs Styles will be a 30 min banger. Edge has barely wrestled a match shorter than 20 mins since his return.
 
Jericho seems to be embracing the sports entertainment stuff that all his stuff tends to be drenched in. Which is smart and something that could get him over good as a heel with this smart audience. He called himself a sports entertainer on the last episode of Dynamite. And honestly its much better than the garbage he has been doing ever since he lost the belt. The feud has made for compelling TV thus far. Probably because of what a contrast the two guys are to each other. And yeah, I think its easily his best match in the company so far. Far better than the Cody match, which I thought was good but not great.

Oh no doubt. Punk and Danielson are the masters of in-ring psychology. I was actually amazed at how much Danielson was able to elevate Lee Moriarity a few weeks back, in a match in which he beat the absolute snot out of Moriarty and won with the triangle choke all while flexing his muscles. Both him and Punk are simply in a league of their own.

The thing that shocks me about MJF is how advanced he is for his age. He is just 26 but his understanding of wrestling is well beyond his years. I can't even imagine how good he will be 10 years from now when he is just 36. I agree that he needs to work with the best and earn more in-ring experience, but even then he is easily the best worker and promo among all the young guys. And that includes Adam Page.

To be honest I think there's nothing there in AEW for Jericho. He was just used as a main guy for its inception cause they couldn't find a bigger mainstream name.
He's 50+ and looks to be doing nothing but being a Ziggler in putting over other guys so much that beating him isn't even that big of a deal anymore. His in ring work is nowhere near to what it used to be a few years back. Now he is at a point he can't work matches every week. He's not going to go for TNT championship. The only thing he has is tag team wrestling but he looks like an outlier there with so many proper tag team wrestlers.

Regarding Mania, I think The Rock will return after Roman pins Brock to close the show with either a stand off or him beating the **** out of Roman.
 
To be honest I think there's nothing there in AEW for Jericho. He was just used as a main guy for its inception cause they couldn't find a bigger mainstream name.
He's 50+ and looks to be doing nothing but being a Ziggler in putting over other guys so much that beating him isn't even that big of a deal anymore. His in ring work is nowhere near to what it used to be a few years back. Now he is at a point he can't work matches every week. He's not going to go for TNT championship. The only thing he has is tag team wrestling but he looks like an outlier there with so many proper tag team wrestlers.

Regarding Mania, I think The Rock will return after Roman pins Brock to close the show with either a stand off or him beating the **** out of Roman.

A month ago I would have agreed with every word you said. But after the match he had with Eddie Kingston at Revolution and this new Jericho Appreciation Society stuff, I have to say he's won me back. And he is in the best shape he has been in, in 5 years or so.

There's a reason why Jericho is one of the smartest guys in the history of the business and that's because he is great at reading the room and constantly reinventing himself. And I can't wait to see how this JAS stuff plays out because its very meta and interesting. And something that plays to the sensibilities of the smart AEW crowd.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

You gotta catch Jericho's new sports entertainer gimmick. It's brilliant and the most interesting thing he has come up with in years. He's basically made a faction of guys he helped in different ways (Hager, Garcia, 2point0) who all refer to themselves as "sport-entertainers" now. And because they are essentially his acolytes the faction is called The Jericho Appreciation Society. Oh and their mission statement is that they 'beat up pro-wrestlers'.

Jericho cut a brilliant promo on Dynamite this week where he basically summed up what the group was all about. The whole thing is very meta and brilliant because it plays to the sensibilities of this smart crowd that knows everything about everything. And its another great example of Jericho reading the room and reinventing himself yet again to keep up with the changing times.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

You gotta catch Jericho's new sports entertainer gimmick. It's brilliant and the most interesting thing he has come up with in years. He's basically made a faction of guys he helped in different ways (Hager, Garcia, 2point0) who all refer to themselves as "sport-entertainers" now. And because they are essentially his acolytes the faction is called The Jericho Appreciation Society. Oh and their mission statement is that they 'beat up pro-wrestlers'.

Jericho cut a brilliant promo on Dynamite this week where he basically summed up what the group was all about. The whole thing is very meta and brilliant because it plays to the sensibilities of this smart crowd that knows everything about everything. And its another great example of Jericho reading the room and reinventing himself yet again to keep up with the changing times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oupHBa1z1LE
 
A month ago I would have agreed with every word you said. But after the match he had with Eddie Kingston at Revolution and this new Jericho Appreciation Society stuff, I have to say he's won me back. And he is in the best shape he has been in, in 5 years or so.

There's a reason why Jericho is one of the smartest guys in the history of the business and that's because he is great at reading the room and constantly reinventing himself. And I can't wait to see how this JAS stuff plays out because its very meta and interesting. And something that plays to the sensibilities of the smart AEW crowd.

His promo work and angles are always going to be great that's pretty standard for Y2j. But the match that he had with Eddie came after about a month of inactivity am i right? During the off time, he lost weight and got into a much much better shape. The thing is if he's going to keep doing matches every week, he'll go back to that state in a few months again. It's just not sustainable at his age. That's why I love how WWE have been using Edge. He does a feud properly, then goes away etc. I do hope Jericho starts getting some time off consistently as well cause it isn't his age to be grinding at week in week out.
 
His promo work and angles are always going to be great that's pretty standard for Y2j. But the match that he had with Eddie came after about a month of inactivity am i right? During the off time, he lost weight and got into a much much better shape. The thing is if he's going to keep doing matches every week, he'll go back to that state in a few months again. It's just not sustainable at his age. That's why I love how WWE have been using Edge. He does a feud properly, then goes away etc. I do hope Jericho starts getting some time off consistently as well cause it isn't his age to be grinding at week in week out.

Yeah but its understood that he can't wrestle full-time. Even having him for angles and promos though is good enough for me. Because even the full-time guys don't wrestle every week or regularly for that matter because of the dearth of talent that AEW has. And I don't think it necessary that he will just go back to that bloated old shape. Because that depends on how consistently he is working out.

And he does get time off to do tours with his band Fozzy. He just got time off like a couple of months ago. When he was touring UK with Fozzy.
 
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[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] There's some twitter war going around over who would win a promo battle between MJF and The Rock. And the majority of the people on that thread think MJF would put "The Rock in his place".

Well this current breed of marks or the "IWC" or so that they call themselves probably don't know what The Rock was doing on the mic from 1998-2003. Literally killed Billy Gunn's singles' push with one promo where he was genuinely ****** off. Why is the current generation of marks or the simps of either promotion so volatile and literally takes nothing to get them triggered. It's almost becoming hooliganism since the supposed AEW and WWE war started.
 
[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] There's some twitter war going around over who would win a promo battle between MJF and The Rock. And the majority of the people on that thread think MJF would put "The Rock in his place".

Well this current breed of marks or the "IWC" or so that they call themselves probably don't know what The Rock was doing on the mic from 1998-2003. Literally killed Billy Gunn's singles' push with one promo where he was genuinely ****** off. Why is the current generation of marks or the simps of either promotion so volatile and literally takes nothing to get them triggered. It's almost becoming hooliganism since the supposed AEW and WWE war started.

The modern hipster smarks are pure aids, I’ve also seen them on social media put over a match between Ibushi and a sex doll, that’s the state of the current deranged IWC, deprived vermin. On the promo battle side of things, peak Rock was something else altogether, especially as a heel I enjoyed some of the greatest moments of his career. But! if we’re talking MJF as a heel in his peak vs Hollywood Dwayne (from around the time they were building to the rematch with Cena) I could see MJF roasting him to, I don’t know if Rock was deliberately mic shy during that brief period, Cena was that damn good or quiet simply the Rock had begun to take his acting experience a little too seriously in the wrestling world (especially if you look some of the old CM Punk shoots on how Rock wanted to do things as if he were on a Hollywood set), I wont say I enjoyed Rock promos for that one feud but it is very naive to use that example alone to look at the Rock’s overall pedigree on the mic
 
Edge vs Styles will be a 30 min banger. Edge has barely wrestled a match shorter than 20 mins since his return.

Yep that gives me more confidence as Edge is given a bit of a blank page, hopefully they get a good spot on the card
 
I'm excited for even less. I was more excited for last year's WrestleMania even though it was largely a dud.

For me its gotta be Edge/Styles, The KO-Austin Segment, Lesnar/Reigns and Cody/Rollins if its actually a match and not a 2 minute squash.

Have a feeling they are gonna have Cody debut at Mania. And in such a case it could be a quick match...kind of in the vein of Cena/Taker from few years back. Lesnar/Reigns though is easily the biggest money match they have put up in years. And I have high expectations from that.

Don't care about Ronda/Charlotte at all for some reason.

The other thing am very much looking forward to is Taker’s speech at the HOF, I hoped he would be the only inductee this year but that will be a real tear jerker.
 
The other thing am very much looking forward to is Taker’s speech at the HOF, I hoped he would be the only inductee this year but that will be a real tear jerker.

Hearing Kane will be in attendance as well at Mania. So Taker and Kane may do that Brothers of Destruction pose.
 
Yep that gives me more confidence as Edge is given a bit of a blank page, hopefully they get a good spot on the card

Yup I just hope AJ has shaken off his rust by then and is doing his face exclusive moves like 450 splash fine. Babysitting Omos as a heel for over a year wasted a year of his career.
Has the potential to be one of the best under card mania matches of all time.
 
The modern hipster smarks are pure aids, I’ve also seen them on social media put over a match between Ibushi and a sex doll, that’s the state of the current deranged IWC, deprived vermin. On the promo battle side of things, peak Rock was something else altogether, especially as a heel I enjoyed some of the greatest moments of his career. But! if we’re talking MJF as a heel in his peak vs Hollywood Dwayne (from around the time they were building to the rematch with Cena) I could see MJF roasting him to, I don’t know if Rock was deliberately mic shy during that brief period, Cena was that damn good or quiet simply the Rock had begun to take his acting experience a little too seriously in the wrestling world (especially if you look some of the old CM Punk shoots on how Rock wanted to do things as if he were on a Hollywood set), I wont say I enjoyed Rock promos for that one feud but it is very naive to use that example alone to look at the Rock’s overall pedigree on the mic

That was the PG rock. It was all arranged in that way so that Cena wasn't made to look like a schmuck. Almost all the promo battles had Cena having the last laugh.

If Dwayne shows up in AEW in a raucous crowd, he will literally tear any wrestler including MJF to shreds on mic. It's just that he chooses not to show that edgy side of him with his Hollywood career and big sponsorships etc. Wrestling is in that guy's blood. He would have the crowd on the palm of his hand during the Attitude era. During his heel Hollywood Rock run, he had become so entertaining that he had to break the fourth wall and tell the crowd to stop laughing on his jokes. Plus I think a lot of what CM Punk says is untrue. Punk's loyalists won't admit it but he has had a history of holding contempt over others. Like eg Miz one of the nicest guys in the WWE and Punk is always ******** on him cause Vince chose Miz to headline the Mania 27.

If you saw Broken Skull Sessions when Jericho was the guest, Y2J told Austin that he had never seen anyone as brutal on the mic as The Rock. His words were that, he would eat you up if you gave him even a whisker and said that he considered himself as a winner that he was able to hold his own against The Rock on that memorable segment.

There have been rumors that once Vince does decide to leave, The Rock might try to buy WWE considering his close affiliation with Nick Khan and having already bought XFL and being able to negotiate a deal with NFL to make XFL a developmental ground for their players or something.
 
The modern hipster smarks are pure aids, I’ve also seen them on social media put over a match between Ibushi and a sex doll, that’s the state of the current deranged IWC, deprived vermin. On the promo battle side of things, peak Rock was something else altogether, especially as a heel I enjoyed some of the greatest moments of his career. But! if we’re talking MJF as a heel in his peak vs Hollywood Dwayne (from around the time they were building to the rematch with Cena) I could see MJF roasting him to, I don’t know if Rock was deliberately mic shy during that brief period, Cena was that damn good or quiet simply the Rock had begun to take his acting experience a little too seriously in the wrestling world (especially if you look some of the old CM Punk shoots on how Rock wanted to do things as if he were on a Hollywood set), I wont say I enjoyed Rock promos for that one feud but it is very naive to use that example alone to look at the Rock’s overall pedigree on the mic

IWC, Meltzer,Alvarez, Cornette, Sapp all of them are so cringe to listen to. Like I do like Ibushi but IWC and Meltzer talk of him as if he is better than Prime Rey or something. Plus Meltzer's reviews of Tanahashi are laughable to be honest. When Tanahashi keeps doing the same 5 6 moves throughout his every match, Meltzer called it art, and when Cena would do it, he called him limited. Kenny vs Tanahashi was one of the most worst so called "best matches of the year"
 
That was the PG rock. It was all arranged in that way so that Cena wasn't made to look like a schmuck. Almost all the promo battles had Cena having the last laugh.

If Dwayne shows up in AEW in a raucous crowd, he will literally tear any wrestler including MJF to shreds on mic. It's just that he chooses not to show that edgy side of him with his Hollywood career and big sponsorships etc. Wrestling is in that guy's blood. He would have the crowd on the palm of his hand during the Attitude era. During his heel Hollywood Rock run, he had become so entertaining that he had to break the fourth wall and tell the crowd to stop laughing on his jokes. Plus I think a lot of what CM Punk says is untrue. Punk's loyalists won't admit it but he has had a history of holding contempt over others. Like eg Miz one of the nicest guys in the WWE and Punk is always ******** on him cause Vince chose Miz to headline the Mania 27.

If you saw Broken Skull Sessions when Jericho was the guest, Y2J told Austin that he had never seen anyone as brutal on the mic as The Rock. His words were that, he would eat you up if you gave him even a whisker and said that he considered himself as a winner that he was able to hold his own against The Rock on that memorable segment.

There have been rumors that once Vince does decide to leave, The Rock might try to buy WWE considering his close affiliation with Nick Khan and having already bought XFL and being able to negotiate a deal with NFL to make XFL a developmental ground for their players or something.

There might have been an element of having Cena ‘stand tall’ as the old saying goes but CM Punk’s shoots on how he worked with Rock sort of vindicates how he became a little too scripted and formulaic as a consequence of his experiences in Hollywood, I doubt he worked that way in his prime; despite that, I don’t think the Rock was that bad. Punk never gave those interviews out of spite or anything, in fact the two have a good relationship. Punk always had more of a problem with the higher ups and how they went about things, if there was someone he had strong dislike for it probably was for Hunter. I don’t think there was major heat between him and the Mizz either, he always felt he should have main evented mania and was better then x or y or more deserving etc a lot of what he said was true, he never **** on Bryan main eventing and was happy for him, Bryan’s body of work speaks for itself, lets be honest, Mizz was great as a heel on the mic but extremely fortunate to main event really, I wouldn’t have paid for a ticket to see that main event

Cena also doesn’t get enough credit for being a master of the microphone himself, only he would have been capable of playing one character for such a long time and keeping the audience engaged with his charisma, they tried the same approach with Reigns but there’s only one Cena.

The Rock’s peak is up there with the best ever but I do feel he changed his approach a bit later on in that final run, that’s not to say he would be incapable of cutting an engaging promo though, even moreso if he got rid of the clutter around him
 
IWC, Meltzer,Alvarez, Cornette, Sapp all of them are so cringe to listen to. Like I do like Ibushi but IWC and Meltzer talk of him as if he is better than Prime Rey or something. Plus Meltzer's reviews of Tanahashi are laughable to be honest. When Tanahashi keeps doing the same 5 6 moves throughout his every match, Meltzer called it art, and when Cena would do it, he called him limited. Kenny vs Tanahashi was one of the most worst so called "best matches of the year"

Meltzer and Alvarez are deplorable to listen to on any level, Cornette deserves criticism for inventing the star rating system but he has an unreal eye for the intricacies of pro-wrestling on a technical level and picks up on things a normal observer wouldn’t be able to see and at least he wont put over the sex doll none sense. Those jap guys are good but vastly over rated at times, P4P Okada justifies that hype for me personally and his work reminds me a great deal of HBK, interestingly Okada idolises Shawn to
 
Yup I just hope AJ has shaken off his rust by then and is doing his face exclusive moves like 450 splash fine. Babysitting Omos as a heel for over a year wasted a year of his career.
Has the potential to be one of the best under card mania matches of all time.

Styles never has any rust and has largely been active in the ring, he has been happy to take a back seat following his championship run and go through the motions a bit, but when presented with the right platform and situation, I have zero doubt in his abilities, it will be a banger. The Randy/AJ match at WM maybe has some concerned or maybe it’s the lack of singles programmes on PPV, but that Randy/AJ match was good but they had to wrestle without much input from the crowd who were annoyed by the spotlight issue which was blinding our view
 
There might have been an element of having Cena ‘stand tall’ as the old saying goes but CM Punk’s shoots on how he worked with Rock sort of vindicates how he became a little too scripted and formulaic as a consequence of his experiences in Hollywood, I doubt he worked that way in his prime; despite that, I don’t think the Rock was that bad. Punk never gave those interviews out of spite or anything, in fact the two have a good relationship. Punk always had more of a problem with the higher ups and how they went about things, if there was someone he had strong dislike for it probably was for Hunter. I don’t think there was major heat between him and the Mizz either, he always felt he should have main evented mania and was better then x or y or more deserving etc a lot of what he said was true, he never **** on Bryan main eventing and was happy for him, Bryan’s body of work speaks for itself, lets be honest, Mizz was great as a heel on the mic but extremely fortunate to main event really, I wouldn’t have paid for a ticket to see that main event

Cena also doesn’t get enough credit for being a master of the microphone himself, only he would have been capable of playing one character for such a long time and keeping the audience engaged with his charisma, they tried the same approach with Reigns but there’s only one Cena.

The Rock’s peak is up there with the best ever but I do feel he changed his approach a bit later on in that final run, that’s not to say he would be incapable of cutting an engaging promo though, even moreso if he got rid of the clutter around him

There's a theory that Dwayne was struggling in his hollywood years during that time and was just doing family oriented movies at the time he made that comeback. After he made that comeback, he got a new generation of young fans who would watch his tooth fairy type movies and help grow his hollywood career in return. As these fans grew into teens and adolescent, Dwayne moved towards action flicks like Fast and Furious etc and his fans naturally grew into his body of work in cinema. So this theory states that Dwayne played a highly calculated game back then to further his hollywood career by growing a new set of fans and increasing his worth even though he had to eventually lose to Cena. Dwayne, however, always stated that he returned to entertain his fans. I don't take Dwayne's 2011-13 run seriously. Let's see how he does if he returns to feud with Reigns. Rumor has it that he is going to return as a much more serious character to match the head of the table shtick.

Miz actually did say that Punk hates him for some reason. Punk even dissed Miz in a tweet back during a Saudi show after Miz quoted Punk's change the culture line in one of his promo.

Regarding Cena, I agree with everything you say. Extremely underrated on the mic and in ring as well. He always managed to keep himself immensely likeable even after all the boos and never let the heat get to him. He also managed to keep his personal life like living a heavy party life secret from his fans and never let his personal life create controversy. Cena is definitely one of the ATGs. Probably the only one to be the main guy of the company for well over a decade. Hogan, Austin and The Rock all did for considerably lesser time.
 
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