The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

Ronda wanted to be the heel but they made her into some cringe babyface. No wonder she looks disinterested.

Execution of that match could have been better but it was her first outing on a big card for a long time, from a non-wrestling background never easy but they can definitely improve and do better

 

[shaz619]

My thoughts on the Night 1 of Wrestlemania:

“Spoiler warning” If you haven’t watched the show yet and don’t want it spoiled, ignore my post.



1) The Usos vs Nakamura & Boogs: Standard tag match. Nothing special.

2) McEntyre vs Corbin: Like the previous match, nothing special. Not much to say.

3) The Mysterios vs Logan Paul and The Miz: This was a surprisingly good match and Logan Paul performed well. The Miz is an awesome heel and deserves more respect.

4) Becky Lynch vs Bainca Blair: This was the match of the night for me. Both ladies put on a great fast paced match and in the end, the right person won.

5) Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins: Even though I don’t care for Cody, but this match was quite good. And I’m surprised that Cody won considering he is an AEW guy and we all know how Vince likes to bury guys from other companies.

6) Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair: I didn’t watch this match in full but from the little I saw, it wasn’t anything special. And of course, Flair’s daughter had to win. Can Charlotte become any more unlikeable?

7) Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens: This was my highlight of the night and probably my biggest wrestling highlight in a long time as a fan. Austin actually wrestled a match in 2022 and he didn’t look bad at all. He actually looked good and even took some bumps. The match was a no holds barred and most of the match took place outside of the ring. This was done to obviously protect Austin but the match delivered. Seeing Austin main event wrestlemania bought back so many memories. He looked like he was having so much fun. Perfect way to end night 1 of wrestlemania.

Wrestlemania night 1 was amazing. Things really changed gears big time from Becky bianca onwards. That match was special, my girl EST did it, and then Rhodes Rollins wow the stuff of dreams. Finishing with Austin in a decent length match. Now waiting for my tribal chief tonight! Can’t wait, and looking forward to Edge styles, and Lashley Omos should be good too.

I couldn’t fathom that Austin was going to wrestle it was such a big mark out moment, I’ve not felt that way for any sort of wrestling in a long time. I still got goosebumps, it was crazy. As the segment/match draw to a close I was starting to justify the possibility of a match and why Austin would do it, then I remembered his regret for turning heel in Texas after the end of his match at WM17; he always mentions that he wished he just remained a face that night and signed out that way, in many ways this match in front of the Texas crowd righted that wrong in his career.

BUT STILL - I can’t believe I just watched Austin work after nearly 2 decades, with the history of all his injuries etc it’s unbelievable. I know some doubted the build but KO was doing a phenomenal job and i trusted Austin’s high ring IQ and ability to have the best creative possible, the set-up for the match was beautiful and execution was incredible, I wouldn’t say no holds barred necessarily protected Austin because he took some sick bumps but I felt that suited his character and the situation a lot more and boy did both men deliver, this has to be one of KO’s greatest performances ever and fair play to Austin for his showing to, I loved the match, the intensity, pace and overall layout was incredible and while it stands up well in it own right you have give it the elusive 5* for the spectacle to given how we got to suspend our disbelief. We finally have our WM worthy classic and it was the highlight of the night for sure

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Did you guys catch the ROH Supercard of Honor PPV? Because this was a pretty good PPV.

Right off the bat, let me just say that this PPV is worth seeing just for FTR v Briscoes alone because that match is easily one of the very best tag team matches you will ever see on a wrestling show. Might be one of the best tag team matches of the modern era if I think about it. Just an absolutely off the charts exhibition of tag team wrestling.

But besides that, it had two other excellent matches in Jonathan Gresham v Bandido and Jay Lethal v Lee Moriarty. Josh Woods v Wheeler Yuta for the Pure Title too was fairly good despite being hampered for time. You had Minoru Suzuki wrestling for the TV title. And finally, a massive surprise at the end of the show that just made me mark out.

On a weekend where all eyes are on WrestleMania this show offered a nice counterpoint to the pageantry and spectacle of all that by just presenting stripped-down, old-school professional wrestling.

ROH is alive and kicking!

Yes I did. The only thing that was worth it was Briscoes vs FTR match which was expected. Bandido is fantastic but I will need to watch more of Gresham to get into his wrestling psyche. Samoa Joe's surprise tbh at this point was not surprise at all. That's something AEW's been doing for over a year every 2 weeks. Plus Joe's no compete clause was ending so it was expected. Surprises are just part of a routine for AEW now. Expecting Joe to be lost in the shuffle in a few months if they keep him on Dynamite rather than ROH.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well Night 1 of Mania 38 just surpassed my expectations which were pretty low for me to begin with.

For me, Becky vs Bianca was the best match of the night.

Boogs/Naka vs Usos was boring as expected.

McIntyre vs Corbin was again a filler. McIntyre did his best against the very limited in ring talents of Corbin(although he is a fantastic character worker who works real hard on what he's given). My only complaint for the match was, McIntyre shouldn't have kicked out of End Of Days. That was the only finisher that hadn't been kicked out off. Could have saved for a bigger angle (like a career ending match for someone or something).

Mysterios -Miz/Paul was fine. Paul did well but he's no bad bunny. Bad Bunny did much better in a few minutes he was in the Royal Rumble this year. Rey deserves better and Dominik should be in NXT. On the maincard, he's simply a parchi and doesn't look believable enough to win a match on his own. Plus his 619 is too sloppy.

Didn't care for Charlotte/Ronda match. Horribly told, horribly booked and horribly executed.

Seth vs Cody was pretty good I felt. Crowd was wild for Cody(I hadn't expected that). Seth looked really good in the match. Cody has obviously improved in last 6 years. It opens the debate again, so I guess performing in a well booked match at Mania is the pinnacle for every pro wrestler. Is it so?

Austin KO whole segment including the match those 30 odd minutes was pure nostalgic euphoria. KO got to live his dream of main eventing mania and wrestle Austin that too at the same time. I had thought Austin would be scratchier than Goldberg but boy does he understand the in ring psychology better than anyone. The start of the match where he started to slowly kick KO in the corner and waiting for every single kick made it felt like he was struggling to pick it up due to rust and age. But even then the crowd was popping for it, and then he unleashed his fury of old fast kicks and the crowd went nuts. KO carried the match perfectly. At this point, I think, maybe only Seth could have done the job as good as he did. They didn't let the match drag on. Was perfect length for a mainevent featuring a retiree. Austin kicking out of stunner felt good. And don't think it needs to be said but no one does stunner like Austin even at his age. Stunner truly belongs to Austin.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Wrestlemania night 1 was amazing. Things really changed gears big time from Becky bianca onwards. That match was special, my girl EST did it, and then Rhodes Rollins wow the stuff of dreams. Finishing with Austin in a decent length match. Now waiting for my tribal chief tonight! Can’t wait, and looking forward to Edge styles, and Lashley Omos should be good too.

I think Cody Seth match could have become a classic had it gone into the fourth/fifith gear. They'd probably save it for the future for some blood feud maybe. This match was done so to get Cody over.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I couldn’t fathom that Austin was going to wrestle it was such a big mark out moment, I’ve not felt that way for any sort of wrestling in a long time. I still got goosebumps, it was crazy. As the segment/match draw to a close I was starting to justify the possibility of a match and why Austin would do it, then I remembered his regret for turning heel in Texas after the end of his match at WM17; he always mentions that he wished he just remained a face that night and signed out that way, in many ways this match in front of the Texas crowd righted that wrong in his career.

BUT STILL - I can’t believe I just watched Austin work after nearly 2 decades, with the history of all his injuries etc it’s unbelievable. I know some doubted the build but KO was doing a phenomenal job and i trusted Austin’s high ring IQ and ability to have the best creative possible, the set-up for the match was beautiful and execution was incredible, I wouldn’t say no holds barred necessarily protected Austin because he took some sick bumps but I felt that suited his character and the situation a lot more and boy did both men deliver, this has to be one of KO’s greatest performances ever and fair play to Austin for his showing to, I loved the match, the intensity, pace and overall layout was incredible and while it stands up well in it own right you have give it the elusive 5* for the spectacle to given how we got to suspend our disbelief. We finally have our WM worthy classic and it was the highlight of the night for sure

I had thought I wouldn't mark out for Austin's match but boy does he know how to work the crowd. Everyone got behind him immediately and so did I. And KO carried the match exceptionally well.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well Night 1 of Mania 38 just surpassed my expectations which were pretty low for me to begin with.

For me, Becky vs Bianca was the best match of the night.

Boogs/Naka vs Usos was boring as expected.

McIntyre vs Corbin was again a filler. McIntyre did his best against the very limited in ring talents of Corbin(although he is a fantastic character worker who works real hard on what he's given). My only complaint for the match was, McIntyre shouldn't have kicked out of End Of Days. That was the only finisher that hadn't been kicked out off. Could have saved for a bigger angle (like a career ending match for someone or something).

Mysterios -Miz/Paul was fine. Paul did well but he's no bad bunny. Bad Bunny did much better in a few minutes he was in the Royal Rumble this year. Rey deserves better and Dominik should be in NXT. On the maincard, he's simply a parchi and doesn't look believable enough to win a match on his own. Plus his 619 is too sloppy.

Didn't care for Charlotte/Ronda match. Horribly told, horribly booked and horribly executed.

Seth vs Cody was pretty good I felt. Crowd was wild for Cody(I hadn't expected that). Seth looked really good in the match. Cody has obviously improved in last 6 years. It opens the debate again, so I guess performing in a well booked match at Mania is the pinnacle for every pro wrestler. Is it so?

Austin KO whole segment including the match those 30 odd minutes was pure nostalgic euphoria. KO got to live his dream of main eventing mania and wrestle Austin that too at the same time. I had thought Austin would be scratchier than Goldberg but boy does he understand the in ring psychology better than anyone. The start of the match where he started to slowly kick KO in the corner and waiting for every single kick made it felt like he was struggling to pick it up due to rust and age. But even then the crowd was popping for it, and then he unleashed his fury of old fast kicks and the crowd went nuts. KO carried the match perfectly. At this point, I think, maybe only Seth could have done the job as good as he did. They didn't let the match drag on. Was perfect length for a mainevent featuring a retiree. Austin kicking out of stunner felt good. And don't think it needs to be said but no one does stunner like Austin even at his age. Stunner truly belongs to Austin.

I agree with the most part there but I am yet to see Becky/Belair I wasn’t so hyped for it so skipped that. It was perfect the main-event and in terms of the length I wouldn’t even say it’s entirely to do with Austin’s age, he actually worked that type of length 90% of the time and while the pace was a little slower compared to his prime, he made it work due to his high level ring psychology as you say, Austin must have been so nervous but pulled it off, think how he had no tune up and probably very little prep, all that combined with the fact that he took bumps and made the whole thing entertaining with the support from KO to he deserves props, other thing I want to touch on, if you’re there in attendance this is the most perfect match time for a main event / sending crowd home on a high, at WM 35 the show had been going on for hours and hours, the main event kicked off well past midnight and people missed their train from New Jersey to NYC. This was short, sweet and to the point; can’t remember the last time I felt so satisfied with a WWE PPV main-event.

Other then Seth I’d also say AJ would have been a great opponent to, he had a little back and forth with Austin once on RAW I think and there was instant chemistry.

I will be honest on the Cody/Seth match, it was a great moment for Cody I loved seeing him return as the nightmare and while the match was fine outside a few sketchy spots which were not required, it was nothing special and typical WWE PPV formula applied to it, I think the two are capable of better then that but this is not a bad way to kick of a feud.

 

[shaz619]

I had thought I wouldn't mark out for Austin's match but boy does he know how to work the crowd. Everyone got behind him immediately and so did I. And KO carried the match exceptionally well.

I wasn’t entirely convinced there would be a match and they sort of played that up a bit with the whole ‘set-up’ which was brilliant creative imo but when that bell rang man I lost my sh!t I couldn’t believe it lol Austin has his WM17 closure to and the fans get a comeback match we will never forget, I love a match between two dudes who can work but how many can truly make you suspend your disbelief these days? think of Austin passing out to Bret’s sharpshooter as he bled profusely, Shawn kicking out the Tombstones when they didn’t go overkill with near-falls and that match between Rock/Hogan - moments of magic where you legit suspend your disbelief and last night was one of those rare days!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I wasn’t entirely convinced there would be a match and they sort of played that up a bit with the whole ‘set-up’ which was brilliant creative imo but when that bell rang man I lost my sh!t I couldn’t believe it lol Austin has his WM17 closure to and the fans get a comeback match we will never forget, I love a match between two dudes who can work but how many can truly make you suspend your disbelief these days? think of Austin passing out to Bret’s sharpshooter as he bled profusely, Shawn kicking out the Tombstones when they didn’t go overkill with near-falls and that match between Rock/Hogan - moments of magic where you legit suspend your disbelief and last night was one of those rare days!

As wrestling fans, we have seen so many unbelievable moments and matches and only the best executed ones or the ones involving our favorites make us feel connected to it. Although, I wouldn't put KO/Austin in the league of Bret/Austin, Rock/Hogan or HBK/Taker, I think it managed to evoke emotions out of ripe wrestling fans like us on Mania. Mania 30 with Bryan winning was the last time Mania's felt so satisfying.
Last year's triple threat main event was very good as well, but it was more to do with having crowd back I feel.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I agree with the most part there but I am yet to see Becky/Belair I wasn’t so hyped for it so skipped that. It was perfect the main-event and in terms of the length I wouldn’t even say it’s entirely to do with Austin’s age, he actually worked that type of length 90% of the time and while the pace was a little slower compared to his prime, he made it work due to his high level ring psychology as you say, Austin must have been so nervous but pulled it off, think how he had no tune up and probably very little prep, all that combined with the fact that he took bumps and made the whole thing entertaining with the support from KO to he deserves props, other thing I want to touch on, if you’re there in attendance this is the most perfect match time for a main event / sending crowd home on a high, at WM 35 the show had been going on for hours and hours, the main event kicked off well past midnight and people missed their train from New Jersey to NYC. This was short, sweet and to the point; can’t remember the last time I felt so satisfied with a WWE PPV main-event.

Other then Seth I’d also say AJ would have been a great opponent to, he had a little back and forth with Austin once on RAW I think and there was instant chemistry.

I will be honest on the Cody/Seth match, it was a great moment for Cody I loved seeing him return as the nightmare and while the match was fine outside a few sketchy spots which were not required, it was nothing special and typical WWE PPV formula applied to it, I think the two are capable of better then that but this is not a bad way to kick of a feud.

I don't usually watch women's matches unless they are black and gold NXT matches or ones involving Becky or Sasha. This one was fantastic. Quite possibly the best mania women match of all time. Better than last year's Bianca vs Banks(which I felt was a bit overpraised).

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Watch NXT Stand & Deliver only for 2 matches. The 5 men ladder match for the NA Championship and the Triple Threat Tag Team Championship.

The 5 way ladder match was quite possibly the 2nd best multimen ladder match in NXT history after that inaugral NA championship match back in 2018. Hayes, Grimes, Santos, Waller and Sikoa all looked incredible and looked wrestlers more than sport entertainers. It was a fast paced spot fest like the NXT of old. Waller took a scary bump as well. Apart from Sikoa, I think everyone showed what they are made of. Highly recommended.

The triple threat match was brilliant as well. Put Imperium and MSK into a match, and you're not going to get a bad match anyways.

Other matches were okay to average. Knight/Walter average. Breakker/Ziggler fine, Women's match skipped.

 

[The_KING]

Execution of that match could have been better but it was her first outing on a big card for a long time, from a non-wrestling background never easy but they can definitely improve and do better

I blame the execution on Charlotte. She isn't as good in the ring as people think she is. She is quite botchy, in my opinion.

I couldn’t fathom that Austin was going to wrestle it was such a big mark out moment, I’ve not felt that way for any sort of wrestling in a long time. I still got goosebumps, it was crazy. As the segment/match draw to a close I was starting to justify the possibility of a match and why Austin would do it, then I remembered his regret for turning heel in Texas after the end of his match at WM17; he always mentions that he wished he just remained a face that night and signed out that way, in many ways this match in front of the Texas crowd righted that wrong in his career.

Same. I got goosebumps too when I saw Austin come out in his jean shorts. I knew that he would wrestle.

I don't think Austin turning heel at WM17 was the reason for his comeback. He was obviously paid a lot of money and he probably felt that he had unfinished business, as he retired at just 38. As the saying goes in wrestling, "never say never."

I also don't mind Austin's heel turn. The moment Austin and Vince shook hands at WM17 after the match is one of the most iconic WWE moments. I love that heel turn. As for his heel run, it was fine initially with his tag team with Triple H, but then Hunter got injured and the horrible Invasion angle started and it was all downhill from there. I blame Austin's underwhelming heel run on the Invasion angle.

 

[The_KING]

It's funny how Austin at 57 and having not wrestled for 19 years is still a better worker than Bill Goldberg. I am not hating on Bill as I like him, but Austin worked a really good 14 minute match, while Bill can't work a match longer than 5 minutes and when he does, we all know what he is capable of. Just ask The Undertaker.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I blame the execution on Charlotte. She isn't as good in the ring as people think she is. She is quite botchy, in my opinion.



Same. I got goosebumps too when I saw Austin come out in his jean shorts. I knew that he would wrestle.

I don't think Austin turning heel at WM17 was the reason for his comeback. He was obviously paid a lot of money and he probably felt that he had unfinished business, as he retired at just 38. As the saying goes in wrestling, "never say never."

I also don't mind Austin's heel turn. The moment Austin and Vince shook hands at WM17 after the match is one of the most iconic WWE moments. I love that heel turn. As for his heel run, it was fine initially with his tag team with Triple H, but then Hunter got injured and the horrible Invasion angle started and it was all downhill from there. I blame Austin's underwhelming heel run on the Invasion angle.

If there was anyone who could have led the WWE during Austin's heel run, it was The Rock. Creative messed it up real bad with hastily changing the direction with nonsensical Alliance angle even though that Survivor Series match is one of my favorite matches of all time. The whole angle and Austin's heel run was awful. Then all of a sudden it was Austin face again and Angle heel and Jericho beating beating both The Rock and Austin. I kinda hated that Vengeance PPV. The interferences didn't even let them put Jericho over strong.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Night 2 of Mania starts with a banger. The energy is much stronger tonight than it was yesterday.

 

[The_KING]

If there was anyone who could have led the WWE during Austin's heel run, it was The Rock. Creative messed it up real bad with hastily changing the direction with nonsensical Alliance angle even though that Survivor Series match is one of my favorite matches of all time. The whole angle and Austin's heel run was awful. Then all of a sudden it was Austin face again and Angle heel and Jericho beating beating both The Rock and Austin. I kinda hated that Vengeance PPV. The interferences didn't even let them put Jericho over strong.

The invasion angle was such a missed opportunity. Imagine if you had the likes of NWO, Goldberg, Ric Flair during the Invasion angle, it would have been epic.

Austin face run in late 2001 and 2002 was terrible. No wonder he walked out. Ideally Austin should have main evented Wrestlemania 18 against Triple H for the world title. It was too soon to put the title on Chris Jericho, especially when the buildup for his match with Triple H was more about Triple H and Stephanie's failing marriage. Jericho felt like a sideman in that feud even though he was the world champion.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wrestlemania night 1 was amazing. Things really changed gears big time from Becky bianca onwards. That match was special, my girl EST did it, and then Rhodes Rollins wow the stuff of dreams. Finishing with Austin in a decent length match. Now waiting for my tribal chief tonight! Can’t wait, and looking forward to Edge styles, and Lashley Omos should be good too.

Lashley v Omos will be disastrous if it goes more than a minute. Omos is the modern day Giant Gonzalez and expecting him to do much of anything is asking too much.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sami Zayn vs Knoxville was comedic gold. Had no right to be this good. Ever since Bad Bunny's match last year, celebs have been actually working towards providing some good entertainment. The crowd was super invested in it. There were This is Awesome chants near the end.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I couldn’t fathom that Austin was going to wrestle it was such a big mark out moment, I’ve not felt that way for any sort of wrestling in a long time. I still got goosebumps, it was crazy. As the segment/match draw to a close I was starting to justify the possibility of a match and why Austin would do it, then I remembered his regret for turning heel in Texas after the end of his match at WM17; he always mentions that he wished he just remained a face that night and signed out that way, in many ways this match in front of the Texas crowd righted that wrong in his career.

BUT STILL - I can’t believe I just watched Austin work after nearly 2 decades, with the history of all his injuries etc it’s unbelievable. I know some doubted the build but KO was doing a phenomenal job and i trusted Austin’s high ring IQ and ability to have the best creative possible, the set-up for the match was beautiful and execution was incredible, I wouldn’t say no holds barred necessarily protected Austin because he took some sick bumps but I felt that suited his character and the situation a lot more and boy did both men deliver, this has to be one of KO’s greatest performances ever and fair play to Austin for his showing to, I loved the match, the intensity, pace and overall layout was incredible and while it stands up well in it own right you have give it the elusive 5* for the spectacle to given how we got to suspend our disbelief. We finally have our WM worthy classic and it was the highlight of the night for sure

Yeah this exceeded expectations. This match was booked beautifully but at the same time you have to give credit to both guys. Austin at his age wrestled a very good match. He rarely looked out of breath despite practically brawling all over the stadium. He took some bumps that I would consider serious for someone who has his history of injuries. And KO did an incredible job of putting Austin over by just being the heel, bumping like a boss and above all, making Austin look like Austin.

The fact that they kept the match a surprise did elevate it. Because I don't think any of us expected more than a 7-8 minute brawl. So to get an actual match that was not just entertaining but actually pretty good was incredible. I personally wouldn't give it a 5 star but I agree that the atmosphere and spectacle of it all was surreal. And it was incredible, make no mistake about it. Unlike anything we have seen in WWE since pretty much the last time Austin was wrestling.

Probably the last thing that was on this level was Hogan v Rock at Mania 18. And that was 20 years ago.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's funny how Austin at 57 and having not wrestled for 19 years is still a better worker than Bill Goldberg. I am not hating on Bill as I like him, but Austin worked a really good 14 minute match, while Bill can't work a match longer than 5 minutes and when he does, we all know what he is capable of. Just ask The Undertaker.

Bill was always terrible though. Austin despite dialing down his style after his infamous neck injury was still able to work like a top guy. And that's because he had his fundamentals right and also a had very high ring IQ.

Goldberg on the other hand never really learned to wrestle. And as a result he not only had bad matches but also hurt people. The fact that he ended Bret Hart's career is something I will never forgive him for.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes I did. The only thing that was worth it was Briscoes vs FTR match which was expected. Bandido is fantastic but I will need to watch more of Gresham to get into his wrestling psyche. Samoa Joe's surprise tbh at this point was not surprise at all. That's something AEW's been doing for over a year every 2 weeks. Plus Joe's no compete clause was ending so it was expected. Surprises are just part of a routine for AEW now. Expecting Joe to be lost in the shuffle in a few months if they keep him on Dynamite rather than ROH.

I disagree man. Joe is a legend and I expect him to be treated as such. And TK being the mark that he is probably knows that too. I thought it was a pretty good surprise too because despite the fact that TNA buried him, WWE misused him or that he never really became the star he should have been, he's still Samoa frickin Joe. A guy who put ROH on the map, brought credibility to the company and in a way revolutionized wrestling with the unique MMA-influenced style of wrestling that he introduced in the early 2000s. One that alot of wrestlers have since gravitated towards. His run as champion in ROH was legendary and the series of matches he had with CM Punk are still talked about today. For a period of time there ROH was easily the best wrestling company in the world and the biggest reason for that was guys like Joe, Danielson, McGuinness, Aries, Punk having banger matches every PPV and setting a new bar for pro wrestling.

Now that he has signed with AEW, the prospect of his long awaited rematch with Punk is kinda impossible to not think about. While they probably can't wrestle a 60 minute Ironman Match, I still see both guys being able to have an awesome match. And there are a number of other amazing matches that Joe could have with the talent roster that AEW has. He could even wrestle Bryan again...and you just know that will be off the charts.

 

[The_KING]

Bill was always terrible though. Austin despite dialing down his style after his infamous neck injury was still able to work like a top guy. And that's because he had his fundamentals right and also a had very high ring IQ.

Goldberg on the other hand never really learned to wrestle. And as a result he not only had bad matches but also hurt people. The fact that he ended Bret Hart's career is something I will never forgive him for.

I remember Bill's infamous match with William Regal where he got schooled by Regal. It is WCW's fault that they never really bothered to teach him how to wrestle properly. They built him as this unstoppable monster despite him not even knowing the basics of wrestling.

It is a shame that Bret Hart's career ended in the manner that it did. Had Bret not suffered that concussion, he probably wouldn't have suffered the stroke and he would have come to the WWE eventually. When I was a kid, I always had a dream that Bret would return and wrestle Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania. A shame that Bret's injury prevented that from happening.

Having said that, Bret needs to stop being so bitter about Goldberg. You can say that Bret's brother Owen ended Austin's career but you don't hear Austin moan and ***** about Owen more than twenty years later. Bret needs to move on already because he is always moaning about something.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well Night 1 of Mania 38 just surpassed my expectations which were pretty low for me to begin with.

For me, Becky vs Bianca was the best match of the night.

Boogs/Naka vs Usos was boring as expected.

McIntyre vs Corbin was again a filler. McIntyre did his best against the very limited in ring talents of Corbin(although he is a fantastic character worker who works real hard on what he's given). My only complaint for the match was, McIntyre shouldn't have kicked out of End Of Days. That was the only finisher that hadn't been kicked out off. Could have saved for a bigger angle (like a career ending match for someone or something).

Mysterios -Miz/Paul was fine. Paul did well but he's no bad bunny. Bad Bunny did much better in a few minutes he was in the Royal Rumble this year. Rey deserves better and Dominik should be in NXT. On the maincard, he's simply a parchi and doesn't look believable enough to win a match on his own. Plus his 619 is too sloppy.

Didn't care for Charlotte/Ronda match. Horribly told, horribly booked and horribly executed.

Seth vs Cody was pretty good I felt. Crowd was wild for Cody(I hadn't expected that). Seth looked really good in the match. Cody has obviously improved in last 6 years. It opens the debate again, so I guess performing in a well booked match at Mania is the pinnacle for every pro wrestler. Is it so?

Austin KO whole segment including the match those 30 odd minutes was pure nostalgic euphoria. KO got to live his dream of main eventing mania and wrestle Austin that too at the same time. I had thought Austin would be scratchier than Goldberg but boy does he understand the in ring psychology better than anyone. The start of the match where he started to slowly kick KO in the corner and waiting for every single kick made it felt like he was struggling to pick it up due to rust and age. But even then the crowd was popping for it, and then he unleashed his fury of old fast kicks and the crowd went nuts. KO carried the match perfectly. At this point, I think, maybe only Seth could have done the job as good as he did. They didn't let the match drag on. Was perfect length for a mainevent featuring a retiree. Austin kicking out of stunner felt good. And don't think it needs to be said but no one does stunner like Austin even at his age. Stunner truly belongs to Austin.

Yeah I have pretty similar thoughts on this show. But I didn't think Becky-Bianca was that great. It was good. But for me the Cody-Seth and Austin-Owens matches were easily the highlights of the night.

I felt bad for the opener. Because Boogs blew his knee out and they immediately had to go for the finish. I don't want to say anything too bad about the match because one guy got hurt and from there on out it was all about protecting him, which was the right thing to do.

Corbin v McIntyre was really a standard SmackDown match. There was really nothing here to talk about. And the only good thing I can say about it is I'm glad it didn't go long.

Mysterios v Logan Paul and Miz was probably better than it should have been. Logan Paul did well for a non-wrestler. But I just didn't care about this match at all. I don't care about Logan Paul, I don't care about The Miz, I don't care about Rey's untalented and very green son. Rey is a legend but honestly I would prefer he end his career as a singles competitor rather than have to hold his son's hand as he learns to wrestle.

Seth v Cody was outstanding. This was a WWE style match done right. Lots of kicking out of finishers, some pretty clever stuff too like Cody teasing the Pedigree/Tiger Driver and Rollins telling Cody: "welcome to the big leagues b*itch". But it was also an excellent wrestling match. Both guys worked their a*ses off. Plenty of exciting spots, lots of good wrestling..the crowd was hot for Cody. And in the end the right guy won. This was a re-debut done to perfection. And I am glad WWE did the sensible thing and did not change a single thing about him from his gimmick to his entrance music.

As for Ronda v Charlotte, hate to be that guy but I called it. I just knew this was going to be terrible and sloppy and that's exactly what it was. Ronda probably exceeded expectations and did far better than I expected her to do. But Charlotte did not do a good job of carrying her. As always the main thing for her was getting her sh*t in. But the worst thing about the whole match was that both these women had no chemistry in the ring. One of the funniest moments of the match was when Charlotte literally missed a moonsault into a smaller moonsault and then went for the cover eventhough she made literally zero contact on Rousey. She looked like an absolute fool because of it.

And then ofocurse we had our main-event which went above and beyond at exceeding expectations. Done to perfection. Austin did more than he had any right to at his age and with his history of injuries. Owens did a bang up job of being the foil and putting Stone Cold over the way he should have been put over. The match certainly wasn't a technical wrestling masterpiece, but then again it didn't need to be. It was wildly entertaining and the crowd and atmosphere elevated it even more. And most off it gave the crowd exactly what they wanted which is Steve Austin stomping mud holes and putting beatdowns on someone one last time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I remember Bill's infamous match with William Regal where he got schooled by Regal. It is WCW's fault that they never really bothered to teach him how to wrestle properly. They built him as this unstoppable monster despite him not even knowing the basics of wrestling.

It is a shame that Bret Hart's career ended in the manner that it did. Had Bret not suffered that concussion, he probably wouldn't have suffered the stroke and he would have come to the WWE eventually. When I was a kid, I always had a dream that Bret would return and wrestle Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania. A shame that Bret's injury prevented that from happening.

Having said that, Bret needs to stop being so bitter about Goldberg. You can say that Bret's brother Owen ended Austin's career but you don't hear Austin moan and ***** about Owen more than twenty years later. Bret needs to move on already because he is always moaning about something.

That match was hilarious. My respect for Regal skyrocketed after I saw that match. WCW ofcourse fired Regal after that rather than sending Goldberg back to wrestling school. But then again, considering the mistakes they made later on, this seems like a mere blot of ink on the page.

Yeah but you've got to see it from Brett's angle. Here is someone who only ever dreamed about one thing and that's being a professional wrestler. He worked hard and didn't just become one, but became the very best. And then out of nowhere a guy who doesn't even understand that the most important thing about pro wrestling is protecting your opponent takes away his ability to do the only thing he ever wanted to do. If I were Bret Hart I'd be pretty angry too. And I don't blame him for holding onto this grudge at all. I don't think his situation is comparable to Austin because Austin still had a good 5 years on top after that. He had to modify his style of wrestling but his career was by no means over after that injury, and rather peaked after it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Lashley v Omos will be disastrous if it goes more than a minute. Omos is the modern day Giant Gonzalez and expecting him to do much of anything is asking too much.

It was actually very good. Bobbles somehow managed to coax out a good match there. Maybe Omos isn't as slow as Khali.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Watch NXT Stand & Deliver only for 2 matches. The 5 men ladder match for the NA Championship and the Triple Threat Tag Team Championship.

The 5 way ladder match was quite possibly the 2nd best multimen ladder match in NXT history after that inaugral NA championship match back in 2018. Hayes, Grimes, Santos, Waller and Sikoa all looked incredible and looked wrestlers more than sport entertainers. It was a fast paced spot fest like the NXT of old. Waller took a scary bump as well. Apart from Sikoa, I think everyone showed what they are made of. Highly recommended.

The triple threat match was brilliant as well. Put Imperium and MSK into a match, and you're not going to get a bad match anyways.

Other matches were okay to average. Knight/Walter average. Breakker/Ziggler fine, Women's match skipped.

I wasn't as high on this show as you. I thought the Ladder match was average. Certainly nothing close to the last multi-man ladder match they had for the North American Championship. Didn't care about any of the guys in the match and they didn't really do anything to change my mind.

The tag match was good and easily the best match on the show. But when you've just watched Brisoces and FTR redefine modern day tag team wrestling an hour ago, this seemed like a joke.

WALTER v LA Knight was a totally average, run of the mill NXT TV match. Tony D'Angelo v Ciampa was bad. You basically had Ciampa carrying a Sopranos character who can't wrestle for 15 odd minutes and do his best to put the guy over. And in the end it was what it was. Ciampa did what he was supposed to do: put the young guy over on his way out. But D'Angelo by no means stood elevated after the end of this match.

Ziggler v Breakker was the biggest disappointment of the night. Bron did multiple botches here which reminded everyone how not ready he is to move up to the main roster and yet and how desperately he is in need of some in-ring experience. Ziggler did his best to carry him but as always had to indulge in his signature brand of over-selling exaggerated bumping, that I am not a fan of.

I actually LOLed when Roode accidentally took Breakker's singlet off considering he accidentally did the same thing in the triple threat match too.

Overall, this was a thoroughly disappointing PPV for me. And a reminder of how far NXT has fallen ever since it left Hunter's hands.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The invasion angle was such a missed opportunity. Imagine if you had the likes of NWO, Goldberg, Ric Flair during the Invasion angle, it would have been epic.

Austin face run in late 2001 and 2002 was terrible. No wonder he walked out. Ideally Austin should have main evented Wrestlemania 18 against Triple H for the world title. It was too soon to put the title on Chris Jericho, especially when the buildup for his match with Triple H was more about Triple H and Stephanie's failing marriage. Jericho felt like a sideman in that feud even though he was the world champion.

Austin, Rock, Taker, Angle, Trips/Y2J vs Hogan, Sting, Flair, Booker T/Hall, Nash/DDP That should have happened. If they wanted to add ECW, then RVD, Sabu, Sandman, Tommy Dreamer, Terry Funk/Rhyno/Tazz. ECW's card would have looked minute compared to WWF and WCW.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I blame the execution on Charlotte. She isn't as good in the ring as people think she is. She is quite botchy, in my opinion.



Same. I got goosebumps too when I saw Austin come out in his jean shorts. I knew that he would wrestle.

I don't think Austin turning heel at WM17 was the reason for his comeback. He was obviously paid a lot of money and he probably felt that he had unfinished business, as he retired at just 38. As the saying goes in wrestling, "never say never."

I also don't mind Austin's heel turn. The moment Austin and Vince shook hands at WM17 after the match is one of the most iconic WWE moments. I love that heel turn. As for his heel run, it was fine initially with his tag team with Triple H, but then Hunter got injured and the horrible Invasion angle started and it was all downhill from there. I blame Austin's underwhelming heel run on the Invasion angle.

Austin's heel run is very divisive but I don't think it was bad either uptill that point. It was something different after years of Austin doing the same thing. And its failure had more to do with bad booking than anything else.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I wasn't as high on this show as you. I thought the Ladder match was average. Certainly nothing close to the last multi-man ladder match they had for the North American Championship. Didn't care about any of the guys in the match and they didn't really do anything to change my mind.

The tag match was good and easily the best match on the show. But when you've just watched Brisoces and FTR redefine modern day tag team wrestling an hour ago, this seemed like a joke.

WALTER v LA Knight was a totally average, run of the mill NXT TV match. Tony D'Angelo v Ciampa was bad. You basically had Ciampa carrying a Sopranos character who can't wrestle for 15 odd minutes and do his best to put the guy over. And in the end it was what it was. Ciampa did what he was supposed to do: put the young guy over on his way out. But D'Angelo by no means stood elevated after the end of this match.

Ziggler v Breakker was the biggest disappointment of the night. Bron did multiple botches here which reminded everyone how not ready he is to move up to the main roster and yet and how desperately he is in need of some in-ring experience. Ziggler did his best to carry him but as always had to indulge in his signature brand of over-selling exaggerated bumping, that I am not a fan of.

I actually LOLed when Roode accidentally took Breakker's singlet off considering he accidentally did the same thing in the triple threat match too.

Overall, this was a thoroughly disappointing PPV for me. And a reminder of how far NXT has fallen ever since it left Hunter's hands.

NXT is definitely never hitting those 2018 highs again thanks to Vince and Prichard. Ciampa D'Angelo match was depressing. They could have given him Dunne or Walter or even Kushida to make his loss look credible.

I didn't even properly watch Stand and Deliver apart from these 3 matches. Walter/Knight and Breakker/Ziggler never caught my full attention.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Austin's heel run is very divisive but I don't think it was bad either uptill that point. It was something different after years of Austin doing the same thing. And its failure had more to do with bad booking than anything else.

Maybe Vince got complacent after consuming the competition. Plus The Rock went on hiatus as he started to venture into acting career.

 

[The_KING]

Austin, Rock, Taker, Angle, Trips/Y2J vs Hogan, Sting, Flair, Booker T/Hall, Nash/DDP That should have happened. If they wanted to add ECW, then RVD, Sabu, Sandman, Tommy Dreamer, Terry Funk/Rhyno/Tazz. ECW's card would have looked minute compared to WWF and WCW.

Ultimately, the whole invasion angle was another way for petty Vince to bury WCW and ECW. With the likes of Hogan, Nash, Hall, Flair, Sting etc involved, that wouldn’t have been possible.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Edge Styles was good. But didn't hit the heights I was expecting. They had already spoiled Edge making a faction which sorta affected the ending. But the match never went into the 4th gear. But again I feel like it's just the start of the feud. There are going to be more matches between them with one especially being Edge/Priest vs AJ/Balor.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ultimately, the whole invasion angle was another way for petty Vince to bury WCW and ECW. With the likes of Hogan, Nash, Hall, Flair, Sting etc involved, that wouldn’t have been possible.

Plus Vince didn't buy out Sting, Goldberg or NWO contract around that time. NWO was only brought near the next Mania a few months after the Invasion angle was done and dusted. Plus Vince loves to bury WCW as everyone knows it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

NXT is definitely never hitting those 2018 highs again thanks to Vince and Prichard. Ciampa D'Angelo match was depressing. They could have given him Dunne or Walter or even Kushida to make his loss look credible.

I didn't even properly watch Stand and Deliver apart from these 3 matches. Walter/Knight and Breakker/Ziggler never caught my full attention.

Honestly I'm just waiting for Roddy to leave. I can't believe he is still left on the show. The rest of NXT's core that made them who they are, are all gone: Cole, O'Reilly, Ciampa, Gargano, Black, Ricochet, Fish.

I feel its only a matter of time before NXT will become completely unrecognizable. It's going to be a show with green talent and banished WWE midcarders. And I can't say I picture myself watching that show.

 

[The_KING]

.

Yeah but you've got to see it from Brett's angle. Here is someone who only ever dreamed about one thing and that's being a professional wrestler. He worked hard and didn't just become one, but became the very best. And then out of nowhere a guy who doesn't even understand that the most important thing about pro wrestling is protecting your opponent takes away his ability to do the only thing he ever wanted to do. If I were Bret Hart I'd be pretty angry too. And I don't blame him for holding onto this grudge at all. I don't think his situation is comparable to Austin because Austin still had a good 5 years on top after that. He had to modify his style of wrestling but his career was by no means over after that injury, and rather peaked after it.

I see what you mean. Bret went through a lot from 97-03. He lost his dream job in a horrible manner at survivor series 97. He goes to wcw as the hottest wrestler on the planet, but they completely misuse him. In 99, he loses his brother Owen and his career. In 2001, his mother dies. He suffers a stroke in 2002 and his legendary father passes away the following year. That is too much agony and pain for one to hear in such a short time. I do feel for him. He had at least another decade left in him as a wrestler but sadly one botched kick from Goldberg ended it all. I can see why he is bitter but it does get a bit annoying, tbh.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I see what you mean. Bret went through a lot from 97-03. He lost his dream job in a horrible manner at survivor series 97. He goes to wcw as the hottest wrestler on the planet, but they completely misuse him. In 99, he loses his brother Owen and his career. In 2001, his mother dies. He suffers a stroke in 2002 and his legendary father passes away the following year. That is too much agony and pain for one to hear in such a short time. I do feel for him. He had at least another decade left in him as a wrestler but sadly one botched kick from Goldberg ended it all. I can see why he is bitter but it does get a bit annoying, tbh.

Absolutely man. The guy has clearly had a tough life. And I can understand why all that pain and anguish has left him the way it has.

And while he is going through all this, guys like The Rock, Angle, Jericho, HHH, Benoit and Eddie are coming through the ranks and establishing themselves. Guys he could have had amazing matches and feuds with. And its all happening during the hottest period of wrestling which also happens to be the worst period of his life

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Honestly I'm just waiting for Roddy to leave. I can't believe he is still left on the show. The rest of NXT's core that made them who they are, are all gone: Cole, O'Reilly, Ciampa, Gargano, Black, Ricochet, Fish.

I feel its only a matter of time before NXT will become completely unrecognizable. It's going to be a show with green talent and banished WWE midcarders. And I can't say I picture myself watching that show.

I don't care much for Roddy but Ciampa and Dunne were the last 2 guys I was waiting to leave so I could completely stop watching NXT. Think stand and deliver was that night.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

McAfee Theory Vince stuff was good except for the Vince part. Austin saved the segment. But Vince can't take a stunner now.

So there's still 45 mins left. There's no way the main event is going for 30 mins plus entrances. Anyone expecting a post match angle or surprise?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Another standard Reigns Lesnar match with a predicted result. I guess that's the end of Lesnar's current run. Solidifies Roman's place as the top guy. Will probably appear on both Raw and SD.

Bobbles, Orton and Drew are the only possible opponents.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I disagree man. Joe is a legend and I expect him to be treated as such. And TK being the mark that he is probably knows that too. I thought it was a pretty good surprise too because despite the fact that TNA buried him, WWE misused him or that he never really became the star he should have been, he's still Samoa frickin Joe. A guy who put ROH on the map, brought credibility to the company and in a way revolutionized wrestling with the unique MMA-influenced style of wrestling that he introduced in the early 2000s. One that alot of wrestlers have since gravitated towards. His run as champion in ROH was legendary and the series of matches he had with CM Punk are still talked about today. For a period of time there ROH was easily the best wrestling company in the world and the biggest reason for that was guys like Joe, Danielson, McGuinness, Aries, Punk having banger matches every PPV and setting a new bar for pro wrestling.

Now that he has signed with AEW, the prospect of his long awaited rematch with Punk is kinda impossible to not think about. While they probably can't wrestle a 60 minute Ironman Match, I still see both guys being able to have an awesome match. And there are a number of other amazing matches that Joe could have with the talent roster that AEW has. He could even wrestle Bryan again...and you just know that will be off the charts.

I don't know they need some experienced guys who can manage that stacked roster properly now. Otherwise everyone is going to get lost in the shuffle after 2 months. I'd rather have Joe stay on ROH and he can even be a booker and wrestler there alongside Regal.

 

[Aman]

AJ disappoints at another WM. All of his in ring dream matches have been forgettable duds with dead crowds.

Will his bad run at WM hurt his legacy?

 

[Aman]

Genuinely can't remember the last time he had a great match. Maybe he should retire, I don't think he can be phenomenal anymore and is hanging on for that pay check like other greats have.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know they need some experienced guys who can manage that stacked roster properly now. Otherwise everyone is going to get lost in the shuffle after 2 months. I'd rather have Joe stay on ROH and he can even be a booker and wrestler there alongside Regal.

No way Regal is wrestling again with his history of operations that nearly ended his life a few years ago.

Joe has alot of cache with AEW audience. They know who he is and everything he has accomplished. He will be very over with that crowd. And since he has faced numerous injuries in recent years I think it would be best to use him on a part-time capacity where he is wrestling only the matches he has to wrestle and fans want to see.

 

[shokz1408]

That’s got to be one of my favourite wrestlemanias of all time. Happy my tribal chief is the unified champion now, match could have been better though. The highlight of the night Pat mcafee Austin theory, vince Austin haha it was all happening.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

That’s got to be one of my favourite wrestlemanias of all time. Happy my tribal chief is the unified champion now, match could have been better though. The highlight of the night Pat mcafee Austin theory, vince Austin haha it was all happening.

 

[The_KING]

This is the best wrestlemania in ages. On paper, the card looks a bit disappointing but almost every match delivered.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

No way Regal is wrestling again with his history of operations that nearly ended his life a few years ago.

Joe has alot of cache with AEW audience. They know who he is and everything he has accomplished. He will be very over with that crowd. And since he has faced numerous injuries in recent years I think it would be best to use him on a part-time capacity where he is wrestling only the matches he has to wrestle and fans want to see.

I meant Joe should stay on in ROH with dual wrestler and behind the scenes role while Regal can stay in ROH in behind the scenes role. Regal's been retired as a wrestling for 7 8 years now I believe.

 

[Markhor]

Just watched Taker's HOF speech. That's one of the best pieces of oratory I've ever heard anywhere.

Combined insight, emotion and humour with fantastic advice for everyone to apply in their lives. Can see why he was the locker room leader.

He may have partied like everyone else, but he still kept a levelhead.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I meant Joe should stay on in ROH with dual wrestler and behind the scenes role while Regal can stay in ROH in behind the scenes role. Regal's been retired as a wrestling for 7 8 years now I believe.

I don't know if he should. He's a top guy in any wrestling company in the world. So why not have him in AEW which is the place to be? He's 43 and he has got plenty left in the tank. And there's plenty of time for him to go to ROH and become a backstage personality later. Right now I want him to have all those dream matches that fans such as myself are clamoring to see. Matches with guys like: Punk, Danielson, Suzuki, Moxley, O'Reilly, Kingston, Omega, Keith Lee, MJF, Malakai Black...the list just goes on and on.

In my opinion, this is easily the best signing that AEW has made since Bryan Danielson.

Just the Punk v Joe rematch alone (whenever it happens) is going to break PPV records for AEW.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As for Taker’s speech and the TED stuff I’ve seen this written on social media especially by AEW hipster smarks I wouldn’t follow what these guys spew, some of the most condescending and disrespectful so called fans of wrestling out there, maybe it’s mostly the young ones but they can’t possibly comprehend the contribution of Taker to the wrestling industry and what he left in the ring, there’s always a time and place to insult and be a twit but for these guys there is no limit, Taker’s body of work speaks for itself though and as you say he earned the right a long time ago to do as he likes, there are many speech’s out there which follow the usual formula but using the platform to inspire reinforces the sort of character we’ve known Taker to be.

I’ve not caught the ROH card yet will be doing so, I thought it’s a massive positive Tony bought the company to breath more life into it, personally being a fan all those years ago I wouldn’t like it to be developmental strictly because it’s history is too rich on that front but it for sure can still be used in a way to improve the fundamentals of their roster, they could use it in the mould of the old NXT but I see it keeping its identity at the same time

I dunno man. I liked the speech and enjoyed the anecdotes. But there were moments where it felt like he was trying to be a motivational speaker and I simply do not like that sort of stuff. The mental moves stuff in particular felt really manufactured and TED-talky and right out of that self-help culture. Didn't care much about the religion talk at the end either. But that be more of a personal thing.

It's a minor gripe because the speech in large part was very good. And eventhough it went waaay over time, if there is one person who has earned that overtime its Undertaker.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

AJ disappoints at another WM. All of his in ring dream matches have been forgettable duds with dead crowds.

Will his bad run at WM hurt his legacy?

He is missing that one legendary match at Mania but I do think he has had good matches. The match with Shane at WM 33 was a highly entertaining and very good. And the match with Orton at 35 was good too.

Jericho and Nakamura matches were thoroughly mediocre, and for that the blame lies on the AJ and his opponents, but in large part I feel those dream matches not being good has been due to WWE booking rather than AJ not rising up to the challenge. His feud with Samoa Joe was probably the best example of this. The storyline had heat and the feud was lengthy but WWE never made Joe a credible heel and kept doing DQs and B.S screwjob finishes instead of just allowing those guys to have good 20 minute matches and letting Joe win one of them.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't know if he should. He's a top guy in any wrestling company in the world. So why not have him in AEW which is the place to be? He's 43 and he has got plenty left in the tank. And there's plenty of time for him to go to ROH and become a backstage personality later. Right now I want him to have all those dream matches that fans such as myself are clamoring to see. Matches with guys like: Punk, Danielson, Suzuki, Moxley, O'Reilly, Kingston, Omega, Keith Lee, MJF, Malakai Black...the list just goes on and on.

In my opinion, this is easily the best signing that AEW has made since Bryan Danielson.

Just the Punk v Joe rematch alone (whenever it happens) is going to break PPV records for AEW.

I just hope AEW don't leave him in wilderness after a few months like they did with Christian. Joe needs to be booked well. Obviously he wasn't going anywhere in WWE due to Vince but I just hope Joe gets a lot of good feuds because of the awesome wrestler he is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My thoughts on WrestleMania 38 Night Two:

Pretty disappointing night. On paper I expected this to be the better night, but Night One simply blew this out of the water. I thought none of the matches were particularly good. There was alot of entertaining stuff, and a fair bit of terrible stuff. But really, nothing to sink your teeth into.


RKBro v Street Profits v Alpha Academy: A pretty okay triple threat tag team match. Had some cool spots...all the guys worked well together. But truth be told I have seen better tag team matches with one of two of these teams on Raw multiple times in the last few months. (2.5/5)

Bobby Lashley v Omos: As expected this was bowling shoe ugly. Omos here certainly did more than he has ever done in a wrestling ring but despite that you had Lashley carrying the entire match 99% of the time. Lashley was the only reason this was even watchable and while its sad to see no MVP by his side now that he's likely going babyface, this match was still a great way to put him over as a tippy top babyface going forward. The best thing about it was that it was mercifully short. (1.5/5)

Sami Zayn v Johnny Knoxville: I'll be honest here, I was laughing my a*s off in this match. It made wrestling look really bad, especially because Sami Zayn lost to a 50 year old human crash dummy. But I think if you just suspend your disbelief, there was a ton of hilarious stuff here. It kinda reminded me of Home Alone where the thieves break into Macaulay Culkin's house and just keep stepping into trap after trap and getting the tar beaten out of them. Sami here was basically playing the part of both the thieves. (3/5)

Edge v AJ Styles: This was probably the best wrestling match of the night but still a bit of a disappointment. Like alot of other people I expected these two to tear it up. And they started off brilliantly but then the match just fell into these endless rest spots and uninspiring exchanges. It felt to me like Edge's cardio just wasn't up to snuff. They still went out and had a pretty good match and the finish was good too. But based on the expectations that I had from it, this was largely disappointing. (3.25/5)

Fatal 4 Way Women's Tag Team Match: Total garbage filler. This was the token women's match which they had to put on the show eventhough nobody cared about it. Nothing remotely interesting here. Sasha had to win considering she was the only top girl not in a major match on this show, and that's exactly what happened. (0.5/5)

New Day v Ridge Holland & Sheamus: This was really stupid and made no sense. The New Day's entrance alone was longer than the match---if you even wanna call it that. Pete Dunne spent the entire match trying to disqualify his fellow stable members. About 80% of this minute and a half match took place outside the ring. In the end, New Day lost. Nobody cared.

Pat MacAfee v Austin Theory + Pat MacAfee v Vince McMahon: This was the best and worst of WWE all rolled into one. First off, let me just say that once again MacAfee was absolutely incredible here. He was over like gangbusters. He got a big-time entrance with the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders...came out to Seven Nation Army! which was awesome. And had the crowd pretty much singing that main chorus the entire match.

Yet again, he was absolutely brilliant in the ring for a non-wrestler. The guy's agility and athleticism was simply amazing. The superplex spot in particular stood out. Theory ofcourse is an outstanding worker and made MacAfee look really good. I thought the match was entertaining and well-executed for a 9 minute match. MacAfee won with the roll-up which was a logical finish too. (3/5)

And then Vince got into the ring...

And immediately I knew this is not going to be good. Vince looked amazing and surprisingly jacked for a 76 year old but there was no way he was going to do anything here. And that's exactly what happened. He hit a couple of s*itty looking close-lines and just walked around in the ring. It was like watching a senior citizen wrestle. The worst part of this whole farce was that Theory was openly beating MacAfee up infront of the ref. but the commentators told us, how will the ref. DQ the Chairman of the company? It was so stupid and so bad. Austin came in to salvage this entire thing and he did get the crowd back. But then Vince effed up it all up again by taking the worst looking stunner of all-time. (0/5)

While there was some entertainment to be had here, just the sight of 57 year old Stone Cold walking out to 76 year old Vince McMahon was sad to see. Because it just showed where WWE is today and how poorly they have done when it comes to making their own stars. We are 21 years removed from Mania 17 and they still need Austin and McMahon to make the fans care about their biggest show of the year.

Roman Reigns v Brock Lesnar: Finally we get to our main-event. A match that has been built for seven months and probably the only match that WWE has invested time in and done a serious job of promoting. It's Brock Lesnar v Roman Reigns. The immovable force meets the immovable object. The clash of titans. The two biggest stars in the company going head to head. And as Reigns is coming out, I look and see that there are 30 odd minutes remaining on the show. And immediately I knew this was not going to be anything special because it isn't even going to go longer than 15 minutes. It ended up going 12 minutes and boy oh boy was this a disappointment.

Not a bad match by any stretch...it was your standard big moves Brock Lesnar match. But for a WrestleMania main-event that has been built for 7 months this was a massive disappointment. It is actually very hard to even distinguish it for the match these two had at Saudi last year. Glad to see Roman on top with both the belts, but man, this was a thoroughly disappointing main-event and a thoroughly disappointing night. (3/5)

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I just hope AEW don't leave him in wilderness after a few months like they did with Christian. Joe needs to be booked well. Obviously he wasn't going anywhere in WWE due to Vince but I just hope Joe gets a lot of good feuds because of the awesome wrestler he is.

Yup. Christian's booking has been really disappointing since the Omega feud. I get that they have a number of big names now. But Christian is someone who should be one of the top singles competitors in the company. 7 months ago he was main-eventing their biggest PPV and even beat Omega on the first Rampage. Now he is babysitting the Jurassic Express which is total and utter waste of his talents.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My thoughts on WrestleMania 38 Night Two:

Pretty disappointing night. On paper I expected this to be the better night, but Night One simply blew this out of the water. I thought none of the matches were particularly good. There was alot of entertaining stuff, and a fair bit of terrible stuff. But really, nothing to sink your teeth into.


RKBro v Street Profits v Alpha Academy: A pretty okay triple threat tag team match. Had some cool spots...all the guys worked well together. But truth be told I have seen better tag team matches with one of two of these teams on Raw multiple times in the last few months. (2.5/5)

Bobby Lashley v Omos: As expected this was bowling shoe ugly. Omos here certainly did more than he has ever done in a wrestling ring but despite that you had Lashley carrying the entire match 99% of the time. Lashley was the only reason this was even watchable and while its sad to see no MVP by his side now that he's likely going babyface, this match was still a great way to put him over as a tippy top babyface going forward. The best thing about it was that it was mercifully short. (1.5/5)

Sami Zayn v Johnny Knoxville: I'll be honest here, I was laughing my a*s off in this match. It made wrestling look really bad, especially because Sami Zayn lost to a 50 year old human crash dummy. But I think if you just suspend your disbelief, there was a ton of hilarious stuff here. It kinda reminded me of Home Alone where the thieves break into Macaulay Culkin's house and just keep stepping into trap after trap and getting the tar beaten out of them. Sami here was basically playing the part of both the thieves. (3/5)

Edge v AJ Styles: This was probably the best wrestling match of the night but still a bit of a disappointment. Like alot of other people I expected these two to tear it up. And they started off brilliantly but then the match just fell into these endless rest spots and uninspiring exchanges. It felt to me like Edge's cardio just wasn't up to snuff. They still went out and had a pretty good match and the finish was good too. But based on the expectations that I had from it, this was largely disappointing. (3.25/5)

Fatal 4 Way Women's Tag Team Match: Total garbage filler. This was the token women's match which they had to put on the show eventhough nobody cared about it. Nothing remotely interesting here. Sasha had to win considering she was the only top girl not in a major match on this show, and that's exactly what happened. (0.5/5)

New Day v Ridge Holland & Sheamus: This was really stupid and made no sense. The New Day's entrance alone was longer than the match---if you even wanna call it that. Pete Dunne spent the entire match trying to disqualify his fellow stable members. About 80% of this minute and a half match took place outside the ring. In the end, New Day lost. Nobody cared.

Pat MacAfee v Austin Theory + Pat MacAfee v Vince McMahon: This was the best and worst of WWE all rolled into one. First off, let me just say that once again MacAfee was absolutely incredible here. He was over like gangbusters. He got a big-time entrance with the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders...came out to Seven Nation Army! which was awesome. And had the crowd pretty much singing that main chorus the entire match.

Yet again, he was absolutely brilliant in the ring for a non-wrestler. The guy's agility and athleticism was simply amazing. The superplex spot in particular stood out. Theory ofcourse is an outstanding worker and made MacAfee look really good. I thought the match was entertaining and well-executed for a 9 minute match. MacAfee won with the roll-up which was a logical finish too. (3/5)

And then Vince got into the ring...

And immediately I knew this is not going to be good. Vince looked amazing and surprisingly jacked for a 76 year old but there was no way he was going to do anything here. And that's exactly what happened. He hit a couple of s*itty looking close-lines and just walked around in the ring. It was like watching a senior citizen wrestle. The worst part of this whole farce was that Theory was openly beating MacAfee up infront of the ref. but the commentators told us, how will the ref. DQ the Chairman of the company? It was so stupid and so bad. Austin came in to salvage this entire thing and he did get the crowd back. But then Vince effed up it all up again by taking the worst looking stunner of all-time. (0/5)

While there was some entertainment to be had here, just the sight of 57 year old Stone Cold walking out to 76 year old Vince McMahon was sad to see. Because it just showed where WWE is today and how poorly they have done when it comes to making their own stars. We are 21 years removed from Mania 17 and they still need Austin and McMahon to make the fans care about their biggest show of the year.

Roman Reigns v Brock Lesnar: Finally we get to our main-event. A match that has been built for seven months and probably the only match that WWE has invested time in and done a serious job of promoting. It's Brock Lesnar v Roman Reigns. The immovable force meets the immovable object. The clash of titans. The two biggest stars in the company going head to head. And as Reigns is coming out, I look and see that there are 30 odd minutes remaining on the show. And immediately I knew this was not going to be anything special because it isn't even going to go longer than 15 minutes. It ended up going 12 minutes and boy oh boy was this a disappointment.

Not a bad match by any stretch...it was your standard big moves Brock Lesnar match. But for a WrestleMania main-event that has been built for 7 months this was a massive disappointment. It is actually very hard to even distinguish it for the match these two had at Saudi last year. Glad to see Roman on top with both the belts, but man, this was a thoroughly disappointing main-event and a thoroughly disappointing night. (3/5)

Honestly when I think about it, I am underrating Knoxville v Zayn. Edge v AJ was still the best wrestling match on this show, but Knoxville v Zayn was by far the best and most entertaining thing. I still can't get over how hilarious and violent it was. (3.5/5)

 

[shaz619]

Honestly when I think about it, I am underrating Knoxville v Zayn. Edge v AJ was still the best wrestling match on this show, but Knoxville v Zayn was by far the best and most entertaining thing. I still can't get over how hilarious and violent it was. (3.5/5)

Edge/AJ was a beautiful match, everything they did mattered and was well executed, it was one of the best matches across both nights. While WWE does have a habit of taking some steam out to leave more for the rest of the card or a feud on the night, e.g I thought Jericho/AJ was fantastic for similar reasons these guys sometimes get asked to bring the crowd down (they have learned from HBK/Taker at WM 25 and what followed in the main-event) given how long the show is but it works anyhow from the perspective of building heat although that is more digestible in an arena as crowd noise evaporates into the air (makes it harder to work) and this is more of an issue especially if you’re in a dead spot but they had the fans investment.

I don’t like a big high spot fest but a stadium is a place to do it in this era and this gen of fans, but that’s also if the booker lets you but I enjoyed what they did personally and a lot more then Cody/Seth which was good to but too formulaic and some spots didn’t make either guy look good, also think Cody should keep his ring work more grounded and crank up the intensity of his strikes to compensate.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno man. I liked the speech and enjoyed the anecdotes. But there were moments where it felt like he was trying to be a motivational speaker and I simply do not like that sort of stuff. The mental moves stuff in particular felt really manufactured and TED-talky and right out of that self-help culture. Didn't care much about the religion talk at the end either. But that be more of a personal thing.

It's a minor gripe because the speech in large part was very good. And eventhough it went waaay over time, if there is one person who has earned that overtime its Undertaker.

Don’t think any of it from Taker especially is manufactured, it’s real life experience and what worked for him / tips for anyone else to make good of it, I get it wont be everyone’s cup of tea. And I’ve never used self help but know how useful it has been with a few people I know. Taker has always had the mentality of a fighter and following combat sport closely, mentally some condition themselves for war, pain or to overcome whatever else outside that ring, Mike Tyson was a great example of that psychological warfare.

If you watched all the HOF then understandable it would have felt long, it’s hard to keep up with everything and I just watched Taker’s speech, WWE have a habit of drawing out an event longer then necessary, they could have had Taker just come out and the crowd would have gone home happy, he arrived in the arena well past midnight - you don’t sleep when on WM tour lol but it’s a first and special occasion, this is a guy who never broke kayfabe for so long and spoke to all as Mark

 

[shaz619]

Just watched Taker's HOF speech. That's one of the best pieces of oratory I've ever heard anywhere.

Combined insight, emotion and humour with fantastic advice for everyone to apply in their lives. Can see why he was the locker room leader.

He may have partied like everyone else, but he still kept a levelhead.

Blame the Godfather for that but totally agree, it was fantastic all things considered and a unique experience. The sort of guy we’ve known him to be over the years was reinforced for me and this I gather was his first shot at public speaking, did really well.

 

[shaz619]

Cody was asked what advice he’d give to anyone in AEW making the switch to the E, he gave a pretty good answer especially surrounding the rigours of the schedule, forgetting booking or creative I don’t think that’s something they’d be ready for so easily and ring style especially would be impacted, you really need to be strong mentally to prepare for that and most of the spot monkeys wouldn’t last long or spend most of the time on the shelf due to injury. It’s a lot easier to go all out when you have that once match on, a lot of the vets we’ve enjoyed over the years could easily go back to putting on bangers every day for fun but to thrive under the E’s system on every front, there is so much more to overcome and ultimately that does define legacy to, how did you respond with the odds against you or on that night when you worked x match against x opponent which weren’t exactly ideal

 

[shaz619]

My thoughts on WrestleMania 38 Night Two:

Pretty disappointing night. On paper I expected this to be the better night, but Night One simply blew this out of the water. I thought none of the matches were particularly good. There was alot of entertaining stuff, and a fair bit of terrible stuff. But really, nothing to sink your teeth into.


RKBro v Street Profits v Alpha Academy: A pretty okay triple threat tag team match. Had some cool spots...all the guys worked well together. But truth be told I have seen better tag team matches with one of two of these teams on Raw multiple times in the last few months. (2.5/5)

Bobby Lashley v Omos: As expected this was bowling shoe ugly. Omos here certainly did more than he has ever done in a wrestling ring but despite that you had Lashley carrying the entire match 99% of the time. Lashley was the only reason this was even watchable and while its sad to see no MVP by his side now that he's likely going babyface, this match was still a great way to put him over as a tippy top babyface going forward. The best thing about it was that it was mercifully short. (1.5/5)

Sami Zayn v Johnny Knoxville: I'll be honest here, I was laughing my a*s off in this match. It made wrestling look really bad, especially because Sami Zayn lost to a 50 year old human crash dummy. But I think if you just suspend your disbelief, there was a ton of hilarious stuff here. It kinda reminded me of Home Alone where the thieves break into Macaulay Culkin's house and just keep stepping into trap after trap and getting the tar beaten out of them. Sami here was basically playing the part of both the thieves. (3/5)

Edge v AJ Styles: This was probably the best wrestling match of the night but still a bit of a disappointment. Like alot of other people I expected these two to tear it up. And they started off brilliantly but then the match just fell into these endless rest spots and uninspiring exchanges. It felt to me like Edge's cardio just wasn't up to snuff. They still went out and had a pretty good match and the finish was good too. But based on the expectations that I had from it, this was largely disappointing. (3.25/5)

Fatal 4 Way Women's Tag Team Match: Total garbage filler. This was the token women's match which they had to put on the show eventhough nobody cared about it. Nothing remotely interesting here. Sasha had to win considering she was the only top girl not in a major match on this show, and that's exactly what happened. (0.5/5)

New Day v Ridge Holland & Sheamus: This was really stupid and made no sense. The New Day's entrance alone was longer than the match---if you even wanna call it that. Pete Dunne spent the entire match trying to disqualify his fellow stable members. About 80% of this minute and a half match took place outside the ring. In the end, New Day lost. Nobody cared.

Pat MacAfee v Austin Theory + Pat MacAfee v Vince McMahon: This was the best and worst of WWE all rolled into one. First off, let me just say that once again MacAfee was absolutely incredible here. He was over like gangbusters. He got a big-time entrance with the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders...came out to Seven Nation Army! which was awesome. And had the crowd pretty much singing that main chorus the entire match.

Yet again, he was absolutely brilliant in the ring for a non-wrestler. The guy's agility and athleticism was simply amazing. The superplex spot in particular stood out. Theory ofcourse is an outstanding worker and made MacAfee look really good. I thought the match was entertaining and well-executed for a 9 minute match. MacAfee won with the roll-up which was a logical finish too. (3/5)

And then Vince got into the ring...

And immediately I knew this is not going to be good. Vince looked amazing and surprisingly jacked for a 76 year old but there was no way he was going to do anything here. And that's exactly what happened. He hit a couple of s*itty looking close-lines and just walked around in the ring. It was like watching a senior citizen wrestle. The worst part of this whole farce was that Theory was openly beating MacAfee up infront of the ref. but the commentators told us, how will the ref. DQ the Chairman of the company? It was so stupid and so bad. Austin came in to salvage this entire thing and he did get the crowd back. But then Vince effed up it all up again by taking the worst looking stunner of all-time. (0/5)

While there was some entertainment to be had here, just the sight of 57 year old Stone Cold walking out to 76 year old Vince McMahon was sad to see. Because it just showed where WWE is today and how poorly they have done when it comes to making their own stars. We are 21 years removed from Mania 17 and they still need Austin and McMahon to make the fans care about their biggest show of the year.

Roman Reigns v Brock Lesnar: Finally we get to our main-event. A match that has been built for seven months and probably the only match that WWE has invested time in and done a serious job of promoting. It's Brock Lesnar v Roman Reigns. The immovable force meets the immovable object. The clash of titans. The two biggest stars in the company going head to head. And as Reigns is coming out, I look and see that there are 30 odd minutes remaining on the show. And immediately I knew this was not going to be anything special because it isn't even going to go longer than 15 minutes. It ended up going 12 minutes and boy oh boy was this a disappointment.

Not a bad match by any stretch...it was your standard big moves Brock Lesnar match. But for a WrestleMania main-event that has been built for 7 months this was a massive disappointment. It is actually very hard to even distinguish it for the match these two had at Saudi last year. Glad to see Roman on top with both the belts, but man, this was a thoroughly disappointing main-event and a thoroughly disappointing night. (3/5)

I think you would have hated the match had it been any longer, it was solid for what it was and two titans of the company throwing haymakers early on is clever booking and more believable as they are the only guys to work that way, the intensity and pace was great but they lacked creativity. I would have liked the match to have been no holds barred or falls count anywhere. Some of the best matches from the AE era barely lasted 15 min, it’s what they do in that time but it was more of the same, I likes the Saudi match better but for mania the booker should be criticised for that, however besides that it was well done and they didn’t allow it to drag which is a big no no at the end of a long show, remember how Hunter tried to wrestle like he is Flair at WM 32 and put the crowd to sleep in the main-event, that match felt like 5 hours and I know Reigns was a bit more inexperienced then but Hunter refused to adapt, am glad he retired…THANK GOD - I’ve seen too many abdominal stretches in my time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think you would have hated the match had it been any longer, it was solid for what it was and two titans of the company throwing haymakers early on is clever booking and more believable as they are the only guys to work that way, the intensity and pace was great but they lacked creativity. I would have liked the match to have been no holds barred or falls count anywhere. Some of the best matches from the AE era barely lasted 15 min, it’s what they do in that time but it was more of the same, I likes the Saudi match better but for mania the booker should be criticised for that, however besides that it was well done and they didn’t allow it to drag which is a big no no at the end of a long show, remember how Hunter tried to wrestle like he is Flair at WM 32 and put the crowd to sleep in the main-event, that match felt like 5 hours and I know Reigns was a bit more inexperienced then but Hunter refused to adapt, am glad he retired…THANK GOD - I’ve seen too many abdominal stretches in my time.

Yeah but it was like every Brock Lesnar match ever. I mean I have seen matches like these at 30 or so times. And its not that I don't enjoy them. But I just feel like we should have gotten something different and unique for the main-event of Mania.

Yeah I remember that match very well. It was an incredibly boring main-event. But then again, Brock is not HHH at however old he was back then. Brock is a pretty dynamic worker who is unlike any wrestler in the world when he is actually motivated to put on a good match. This could have gone 5 more minutes and still 50 times more exciting, creative and unique but I just didn't feel they put in any kind of effort to make this match special. I don't blame either of the guys for that, I blame the booking. But the end-result is still an uninspiring WrestleMania main-event...atleast for me.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mania after Raw was pretty underwhelming.

- Cody promo was good. He was leaning into the stuff that made people despise him in AEW, but here they were cheering him for it. Funny how that works.
- Couldn't care less that Veer Mahaan finally arrived on Raw because I know 3 months from now he will be a jobber working Main-Event.
- Elias coming out with a new name and pretending he was Elias's brother was stupid. This looks like the start of something really stupid.
- MVP turning on Lashley and becoming Omos's manager is the worst thing that could have happened. Because now that means that they will not only prolong this feud but we will also have to see Lashley getting his reputation dragged down by wrestling with the worst wrestler in the company.
- Edge's seemingly new heel group is intriguing. Would like to see more members in it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What did you make of Joe's arrival in AEW? Surely I can't be the only one dreaming of the Punk rematch?

Also, Reigns has pretty much beaten everyone in the company. And sooner or later this reign has to end unless of course they are thinking of breaking one of Bruno's records which can't be a realistic thing to aim for in this day and age.

So my question is who would you have beat Reigns to take one or both of the belts? imo it has to be McIntyre because he and Lashley are really the only ones that are on Reigns' level. And nothing against Lashley but we have already seen a lengthy title reign with him as Champion, but Drew really needs to have his credibility restored after the way he was booked in the last 2 years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Edge/AJ was a beautiful match, everything they did mattered and was well executed, it was one of the best matches across both nights. While WWE does have a habit of taking some steam out to leave more for the rest of the card or a feud on the night, e.g I thought Jericho/AJ was fantastic for similar reasons these guys sometimes get asked to bring the crowd down (they have learned from HBK/Taker at WM 25 and what followed in the main-event) given how long the show is but it works anyhow from the perspective of building heat although that is more digestible in an arena as crowd noise evaporates into the air (makes it harder to work) and this is more of an issue especially if you’re in a dead spot but they had the fans investment.

I don’t like a big high spot fest but a stadium is a place to do it in this era and this gen of fans, but that’s also if the booker lets you but I enjoyed what they did personally and a lot more then Cody/Seth which was good to but too formulaic and some spots didn’t make either guy look good, also think Cody should keep his ring work more grounded and crank up the intensity of his strikes to compensate.

This reminded me of that Jericho/AJ match alot which I didn't like for similar reasons. And I don't even want to fault anything these guys did technically. But this just didn't work for me.

That said, The Cody-Seth match, I thought was absolutely awesome. It was a typical WrestleMania big match. I have seen HHH have a number of these. But that didn't stop it from being any less exciting for me. And the match was significantly elevated by the reaction that Cody got.

Btw, no single moment summed up the difference between AEW and WWE more than Cody giving his weight belt to a young fan in the crowd and that kid looking like he had just been handed a golden ticket to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory or something. In AEW he threw his weight belt into the crowd and the crowd threw it back...numerous times lol.

And I'm not even trying to make fun of fans of either company. But it is funny that the kind of stuff that gets over in WWE does not in AEW and vice-versa. This is why I thought months ago that Cody going to WWE was the best thing he could have done because he he fit right into this environment with the kind of babyface promos he was doing there. On top of that he was simply finished as a babyface infront of that AEW audience. But coming to WWE made him a rebel and a hot babyface infront of this WWE audience because he left the other side to come to them, which was exactly what made him popular on the indies and on AEW in the first place.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Cody was asked what advice he’d give to anyone in AEW making the switch to the E, he gave a pretty good answer especially surrounding the rigours of the schedule, forgetting booking or creative I don’t think that’s something they’d be ready for so easily and ring style especially would be impacted, you really need to be strong mentally to prepare for that and most of the spot monkeys wouldn’t last long or spend most of the time on the shelf due to injury. It’s a lot easier to go all out when you have that once match on, a lot of the vets we’ve enjoyed over the years could easily go back to putting on bangers every day for fun but to thrive under the E’s system on every front, there is so much more to overcome and ultimately that does define legacy to, how did you respond with the odds against you or on that night when you worked x match against x opponent which weren’t exactly ideal

I don't know man. I don't think Cody is being completely honest here. I'm glad he is at WWE because I feel that is the best place for him to begin with. But lets not forget that he did some absolutely awful work during that last year or so in AEW. His stuff was totally tone-deaf and out of the John Cena manual and everyone hated it. And then he shoehorned his untalented wife into everything and just out of his ego didn't turn heel when he could have easily become the best heel in the company if he wanted.

I also feel he is not being honest about his reasons for leaving AEW. I think it had more to do with the fact that he wanted Punk money and the ability to book all his storylines and matches. And while Tony probably went for the latter, he likely did not go for the former which probably made Cody pack up and leave.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yup. Christian's booking has been really disappointing since the Omega feud. I get that they have a number of big names now. But Christian is someone who should be one of the top singles competitors in the company. 7 months ago he was main-eventing their biggest PPV and even beat Omega on the first Rampage. Now he is babysitting the Jurassic Express which is total and utter waste of his talents.

I think it was sort of a strategy from WWE to release a plethora of their talent and let Tony get befuddled with all the free agents and wasting money on signing all of them up while not knowing the art of how to utilize them all. I think AEW may not have been making profits since they spend so much of their money on their stacked roster. It's just that Khans have tons of money so they can let the losses not have an effect on them.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but it was like every Brock Lesnar match ever. I mean I have seen matches like these at 30 or so times. And its not that I don't enjoy them. But I just feel like we should have gotten something different and unique for the main-event of Mania.

Yeah I remember that match very well. It was an incredibly boring main-event. But then again, Brock is not HHH at however old he was back then. Brock is a pretty dynamic worker who is unlike any wrestler in the world when he is actually motivated to put on a good match. This could have gone 5 more minutes and still 50 times more exciting, creative and unique but I just didn't feel they put in any kind of effort to make this match special. I don't blame either of the guys for that, I blame the booking. But the end-result is still an uninspiring WrestleMania main-event...atleast for me.

Think Roman-Brock Mania triology will go down as the worst ever triology of mania matches if there exists one. I had said that before as well despite how much the face heel reversing would look good for build up, it was never going to deliver and make us go wow at Mania mainly for the reason we had seen that match 7-8 times already.

Brock does wrestle in a similar way but he's still had classics in last few years with the likes of AJ, Taker(HIAC), Bryan and even Rollins. I would never want to see these two facing each other in a match again.

The thing about Y2J/AJ matches was also pretty similar that those two had faced each other in singles match three times before in last 4-5 weeks leading upto Mania, so even though their Mania encounter wasn't bad by any means, it just looked repeated with an illogical result.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Mania after Raw was pretty underwhelming.

- Cody promo was good. He was leaning into the stuff that made people despise him in AEW, but here they were cheering him for it. Funny how that works.
- Couldn't care less that Veer Mahaan finally arrived on Raw because I know 3 months from now he will be a jobber working Main-Event.
- Elias coming out with a new name and pretending he was Elias's brother was stupid. This looks like the start of something really stupid.
- MVP turning on Lashley and becoming Omos's manager is the worst thing that could have happened. Because now that means that they will not only prolong this feud but we will also have to see Lashley getting his reputation dragged down by wrestling with the worst wrestler in the company.
- Edge's seemingly new heel group is intriguing. Would like to see more members in it.

KO's delivery to Ezekiel "Elias is that you?" was perfect and hilarious.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Mania after Raw was pretty underwhelming.

- Cody promo was good. He was leaning into the stuff that made people despise him in AEW, but here they were cheering him for it. Funny how that works.
- Couldn't care less that Veer Mahaan finally arrived on Raw because I know 3 months from now he will be a jobber working Main-Event.
- Elias coming out with a new name and pretending he was Elias's brother was stupid. This looks like the start of something really stupid.
- MVP turning on Lashley and becoming Omos's manager is the worst thing that could have happened. Because now that means that they will not only prolong this feud but we will also have to see Lashley getting his reputation dragged down by wrestling with the worst wrestler in the company.
- Edge's seemingly new heel group is intriguing. Would like to see more members in it.

Don't get the point of Bron losing to Zigger a few days ago at Stand and Deliver only to win the title on Raw(which isn't even NXT)

 

[shaz619]

This reminded me of that Jericho/AJ match alot which I didn't like for similar reasons. And I don't even want to fault anything these guys did technically. But this just didn't work for me.

That said, The Cody-Seth match, I thought was absolutely awesome. It was a typical WrestleMania big match. I have seen HHH have a number of these. But that didn't stop it from being any less exciting for me. And the match was significantly elevated by the reaction that Cody got.

Btw, no single moment summed up the difference between AEW and WWE more than Cody giving his weight belt to a young fan in the crowd and that kid looking like he had just been handed a golden ticket to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory or something. In AEW he threw his weight belt into the crowd and the crowd threw it back...numerous times lol.

And I'm not even trying to make fun of fans of either company. But it is funny that the kind of stuff that gets over in WWE does not in AEW and vice-versa. This is why I thought months ago that Cody going to WWE was the best thing he could have done because he he fit right into this environment with the kind of babyface promos he was doing there. On top of that he was simply finished as a babyface infront of that AEW audience. But coming to WWE made him a rebel and a hot babyface infront of this WWE audience because he left the other side to come to them, which was exactly what made him popular on the indies and on AEW in the first place.

The same match would have defo got more over on a AEW show, they sold a lot more then the typical for a WWE match and perhaps as I said it was to bring the crowd down but it was more for the enthusiasts, but other then that hopefully we get more with not too much overbooking. Seth/Cody was formulaic for me, too many near-falls and the botches put me off, but it was still a fine comeback for Cody.

That’s the thing, two completely different fanbases, AEW is mainly followed by the smarks while WWE has to appeal to each audience and especially on big shows with family’s out. The other reason for the response is because Cody was there before and much loved by the audience, he got over whatever was given to him and the Rhodes name means something, it always will.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know man. I don't think Cody is being completely honest here. I'm glad he is at WWE because I feel that is the best place for him to begin with. But lets not forget that he did some absolutely awful work during that last year or so in AEW. His stuff was totally tone-deaf and out of the John Cena manual and everyone hated it. And then he shoehorned his untalented wife into everything and just out of his ego didn't turn heel when he could have easily become the best heel in the company if he wanted.

I also feel he is not being honest about his reasons for leaving AEW. I think it had more to do with the fact that he wanted Punk money and the ability to book all his storylines and matches. And while Tony probably went for the latter, he likely did not go for the former which probably made Cody pack up and leave.

He has his reasons for leaving you are right but he was asked about giving advice on jumping, he was very diplomatic during that interview, I don’t think he is wrong at all on the schedule that is the biggest factor to digest when you do consider a move imo because it’s not for everyone; he wasn’t talking about why he left btw but asked on what others should consider if they do.

Tony needs to take away the creative blessings he gave to Mox as well, he is learning on the job now that this isn’t a good thing to do as promoter as much as he wanted to get the big names

 

[shaz619]

Yeah but it was like every Brock Lesnar match ever. I mean I have seen matches like these at 30 or so times. And its not that I don't enjoy them. But I just feel like we should have gotten something different and unique for the main-event of Mania.

Yeah I remember that match very well. It was an incredibly boring main-event. But then again, Brock is not HHH at however old he was back then. Brock is a pretty dynamic worker who is unlike any wrestler in the world when he is actually motivated to put on a good match. This could have gone 5 more minutes and still 50 times more exciting, creative and unique but I just didn't feel they put in any kind of effort to make this match special. I don't blame either of the guys for that, I blame the booking. But the end-result is still an uninspiring WrestleMania main-event...atleast for me.

I agree the match should have been different but what am saying is if it went longer it would be more of the same I reckon, the stuff on Brock and his motivation is a myth, he will work how the bookers want him to 90% off the time and I totally agree he is a million times more versatile then Hunter. While I get why less has been always more with Brock in this era, I think this was the match where the bookers should have allowed both to show more, recall that Punk/Brock brawl from SS something in the mould of that epic fight

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What did you make of Joe's arrival in AEW? Surely I can't be the only one dreaming of the Punk rematch?

Also, Reigns has pretty much beaten everyone in the company. And sooner or later this reign has to end unless of course they are thinking of breaking one of Bruno's records which can't be a realistic thing to aim for in this day and age.

So my question is who would you have beat Reigns to take one or both of the belts? imo it has to be McIntyre because he and Lashley are really the only ones that are on Reigns' level. And nothing against Lashley but we have already seen a lengthy title reign with him as Champion, but Drew really needs to have his credibility restored after the way he was booked in the last 2 years.

I need to catch up on AEW youtube channel lol I stopped since the dog collar match that was my most hyped match in ages, so much content now difficult to follow all but am going to go back into sticking with the Punk segments among a few others. Joe in AEW is absolutely perfect he can add value in any department they want, while I would love to see that match maybe on ROH! what does Joe have left? what are his ambitions? hard to say right now but am exciting to see him

They are going to keep the belt on Reigns until the Rock comes back lol in terms of the future and carrying the company, I agree with you - no one is more perfect then McIntyre, but they are using him like a mid carder or am I wrong? I am deeply disappointed about how he has been used. A left field choice would be Bron Breaker knowing Vince, but he is not at that stage yet. I would put over Ciampa in that list to or Kevin Owens but they will never be presented that way , maybe there is hope for KO after his showing on night 1 I don’t know

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I need to catch up on AEW youtube channel lol I stopped since the dog collar match that was my most hyped match in ages, so much content now difficult to follow all but am going to go back into sticking with the Punk segments among a few others. Joe in AEW is absolutely perfect he can add value in any department they want, while I would love to see that match maybe on ROH! what does Joe have left? what are his ambitions? hard to say right now but am exciting to see him

They are going to keep the belt on Reigns until the Rock comes back lol in terms of the future and carrying the company, I agree with you - no one is more perfect then McIntyre, but they are using him like a mid carder or am I wrong? I am deeply disappointed about how he has been used. A left field choice would be Bron Breaker knowing Vince, but he is not at that stage yet. I would put over Ciampa in that list to or Kevin Owens but they will never be presented that way , maybe there is hope for KO after his showing on night 1 I don’t know

Joe has got a promo on Dynamite this week. So I guess we'll see what he has to say.

That would be really stupid in my book. And absolute overkill to have him as champion for that long. For me, Rock vs Reigns should be a non-title match. Because it makes no sense for a Hollywood superstar to come back and challenge for the belt....even if they manage to make the feud personal and about family. Yeah McIntyre has been presented as an absolute geek ever since he lost the belt. Needs to be presented more seriously but I would still want him to take the belt off Reigns. Its a travesty that KO hasn't been world champion since he was squashed by Oldberg but he's another guy whose stock has certainly gone up since that match with Austin. A left-field choice for me would be Cody but I think that would mean more if he wins the Rumble and main-events one of the Manias and challenges for the WWE Championship. Btw I totally see them separating the titles again.

Yeah, Breakker probably needs another year in NXT if you ask me. He has alot of the fundamental stuff down pretty well, but the guy is still very green and does multiple botches every match. I think WWE are probably looking at him and Gable Steveson as the future stars.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree the match should have been different but what am saying is if it went longer it would be more of the same I reckon, the stuff on Brock and his motivation is a myth, he will work how the bookers want him to 90% off the time and I totally agree he is a million times more versatile then Hunter. While I get why less has been always more with Brock in this era, I think this was the match where the bookers should have allowed both to show more, recall that Punk/Brock brawl from SS something in the mould of that epic fight

You're right and I almost completely agree with you. But a WrestleMania main-event should atleast have gone 15-17 minutes. Which is merely 3-5 minutes longer than they went. I have seen good 20 minute Lesnar matches so I know that wasn't the issue. The issue as you rightly pointed out was most likely the bookers and/or Vince. And that ended up diminishing this match for me.

Like you said, even a well-booked No Holds Barred/No DQ match would have done the business perfectly. Because once you take out DQs you can do alot more big spots that subsequently allow you to do rest spots and catch your breath too. And its not like this feud didn't call for a gimmick match. Still, it is what it is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He has his reasons for leaving you are right but he was asked about giving advice on jumping, he was very diplomatic during that interview, I don’t think he is wrong at all on the schedule that is the biggest factor to digest when you do consider a move imo because it’s not for everyone; he wasn’t talking about why he left btw but asked on what others should consider if they do.

Tony needs to take away the creative blessings he gave to Mox as well, he is learning on the job now that this isn’t a good thing to do as promoter as much as he wanted to get the big names

Yeah I'll give him that. The interview was good. I am glad he was diplomatic and didn't bury everyone like a child. He is good at these media scrums deals which might help him be successful in WWE because they love people who can go out and do press and be affable.

Personally, I thought it was only a matter of time before that uneasy union ended. I just hope Tony opens his eyes one day and comes to the same realization with the Omega and the Bucks. Because them booking the tag team division is really something that needs to end now that we have FTR, reDRagon, Proud & Powerful, Hardy Boyz under the same roof.

Mox probably has alot of creative control on his storylines and obviously does his own promos but I refuse to believe that he has anything like the power the Bucks have in the company, or Cody had. For one thing, he is not an EVP. I'm also fairly certain Mox is not someone who is booking himself. Tony probably comes up with ideas and shares it with him and then Mox, Tony and the guy he is involved with probably collaborate and progress the thing forward.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Don't get the point of Bron losing to Zigger a few days ago at Stand and Deliver only to win the title on Raw(which isn't even NXT)

It probably has something to do with ratings. Because booking-wise it makes absolutely no sense.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

KO's delivery to Ezekiel "Elias is that you?" was perfect and hilarious.

Hahaha yeah that was great. But honestly, this is not something that fills me with hope long-term. I mean KO is coming off one of the biggest WrestleMania matches in years against the biggest star in the history of the company. And you're going to have him do a program with Elias?

Also, is this why they kept Elias off TV for a year? So they could come up with this incredible, mind-blowing gimmick?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think it was sort of a strategy from WWE to release a plethora of their talent and let Tony get befuddled with all the free agents and wasting money on signing all of them up while not knowing the art of how to utilize them all. I think AEW may not have been making profits since they spend so much of their money on their stacked roster. It's just that Khans have tons of money so they can let the losses not have an effect on them.

Christian is a great guy to have though. He's a gifted worker, an awesome promo and someone who understands the ins and outs of professional wrestling quite well. He can be a mentor to many young guys in the company even when he is not wrestling. Plus, he was signed long before the influx of talent. He was signed at the start of last year. It's the other acquisitions...the likes of Keith Lee, Swerve Stickland that I question.

Christian could have had compelling programs with a number of guys. But if you're constantly featuring jobbers in enhancement matches on Rampage every week, than you are making bad decisions, nothing else. Because Rampage has been garbage for quite some time now. And it feels alot like the result of little to no effort on TK's part.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Think Roman-Brock Mania triology will go down as the worst ever triology of mania matches if there exists one. I had said that before as well despite how much the face heel reversing would look good for build up, it was never going to deliver and make us go wow at Mania mainly for the reason we had seen that match 7-8 times already.

Brock does wrestle in a similar way but he's still had classics in last few years with the likes of AJ, Taker(HIAC), Bryan and even Rollins. I would never want to see these two facing each other in a match again.

The thing about Y2J/AJ matches was also pretty similar that those two had faced each other in singles match three times before in last 4-5 weeks leading upto Mania, so even though their Mania encounter wasn't bad by any means, it just looked repeated with an illogical result.

Yeah agreed. This was nothing like the trainwreck that was the main-event of WrestleMania 34...the 31 main-event which was essentially the same match as the 34 one but it was saved by Rollins's cash-in. This was somewhere in the middle between those two.

But seriously, what a total freaking disappointment of the trilogy. It's laughable to even think about comparing it to other Mania trilogies like Austin-Rock and Triple H-Undertaker.