The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

I don't know man, I just didn't like it. It felt way too similar to pretty much every high-profile main-event match that Reigns has had this year. And I did not AT ALL dig Cena constantly going for the roll-up pin. Just felt incredibly stupid and out of place for such a high-profile main event match. Also felt that the match just didn't grip me the same way that Edge vs. Rollins did. And I agree, the Brood entrance was very very cool. Not just because that entrance music is one of the best wrestling entrance themes ever, but also because it was nostalgic without being overdone.

Yet to see TakeOver. I haven't fully caught up with NXT yet. But Joe's win excites me, because how can it not? I always considered him one of the greatest wrestlers of his generation---one that included Punk and Bryan---and its a damn shame how his career was destroyed by Russo and TNA. And from what I've heard he might be in for a long reign as WWE rebrands NXT.

Yeah. I agree. But I feel part of the reason why that is the case for WWE atleast is because they have lost the ability to create stars. Their entire company tends to be focused around 2-3 guys. And everyone else is just an idiot who can get squashed or have his push stopped on any given day when Vince wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. WWE also does not let guys be who they are. They have to micromanage, script, sanitize everything and in the process the essence of a wrestler gets lost in the scuffle.

Reigns himself is the biggest example of this. Here's a guy that WWE essentially created in a laboratory. Everything he said sounded stupid, outdated and phony. Nobody believed he was anything more than a corporate creation. And the moment he got the freedom to essentially do his own promos, he went to a level none of the fans thought he was capable of reaching. Reigns was never the problem. It was Vince's utterly outdated and deluded vision of what he thinks wrestling is.

Just look at Moxley in AEW. He's one of the most over guys in the company and regardless of what you think about his wrestling, I don't think even his harshest critics can deny that when he cuts a promo you believe every word. Could WWE not have made a star out of him? I don't think I need to remind you how they used him in his last year. I mean that Rollins feud was downright embarrassing and cringeworthy to watch.

Very intrigued by/excited for Lesnar vs Reigns Part 7 though. Have a feeling they will finally get it right this time. I reckon it'll go down at Survivor Series.

A few months ago, I would have agreed with you. But I after seeing AEW alot more frequently, I have grown to like Darby a whole lot more. I may not be his biggest fan, but I get his appeal. To a great extent he's like a smaller, watered down version of Jeff Hardy but also unique in his own way. The size aspect also doesn't bother me as much anymore because it has been normalized to a great extent by modern wrestling and I feel that the ability to be able to work should matter more. And Darby can definitely work.

As Punk's first match I don't mind it at all, eventhough my excitement will be through the roof once he feuds with MJF and Starks. I think with a small build that's focused more on Punk than both guys, it works. And I think the match even has the potential to be a great.

Rampage was all about Punk. The rest of the matches were irrelevant because the whole show was marketed and sold around Punk. And if anything, I'd even say AEW did the right thing by not hotshotting the matchcard because there was no way ANYONE was following that promo. And I think they knew that. Personally speaking, I didn't mind the Moxley match. It was good for what it was: i.e. an under 10 minute TV match. Same for Jade's match which was literally a one minute squash match. The tag match was bad. But I expect to skip atleast one match on Dynamite anyway, so not a big deal.

Overall I have loved Rampage thus far. Its only 45 minutes long which makes it a very easy watch. So far they have delivered one outstanding match/promo on both shows. Christian vs. Kenny Omega on the debut and Punk's promo on the second. So frankly I don't have much to complain about.

It wasn’t the most creative match I agree but it didn’t make me puke, there was structure and an attempt to tell a story, two legit heavyweights slugging it out before 51k people and they were going nuts on a show which probably was long winded from experience.

You know this whole script thing is exaggerated extremely to another level, there is no script or structure in AEW - who’s to say their top guys are capable of delivering a promo like Punk ? balance is key, some guys ought to do well with a few pointers or a blank page while others need that guidance and mentors, otherwise it’s pure anarchy and your top stars will want to cosplay characters from their favourite cartoon shows.

Am sorry but you know after all the criticism Ambrose had I’d have to say am vastly disappointed, he got done dirty but he hasn’t been setting the world on fire, he has been solid and that’s all, I much prefer’d his promo work in CZW, but you’re getting a watered down version, his promo doesn’t move me at all like a Punk who gave me goosebumps even after the segment ended!

Yeah sure no one could have followed Punk but to put on utter garbage after him on national television was non-sensical, I liked the Jade squash it was simple and effective; she looked a real star in the making but how can you expect the audience or guys like me tuning in for Punk to pull for Luchasaurus, Jungle Boy and that no name bloke who fought Moxley , nothing moved me, I saw nothing new or compelling, just some guys who I can’t take seriously to begin with doing some flips.

I can’t get past the fact that Darby Allin looks like a skinny little rat and regardless of how much you rate him, is this the cosplay show? Darby ripping off Sting, Starks cosplaying The Rock and I rate Ricky a great deal its not necessary and then the top champion cosplaying Ricky and Morty and Hunter’s look from the early 2000’s except he can never cut a promo to save his life. In between it all there is potential for sure but the more you watch it the more reasons you will begin to find to defend it, I am really trying hard to enjoy AEW and will give it another go due to Punk but it’s not happening, but I can see why people can be desperate to enjoy it due to the same old from WWE but that’s not enough of a motivation for me to enjoy it in the same way because am off the product in general overall tuning in and out. But Punk going from working with Brock, Rock, Cena….to Darby Allin, that’s the next big thing apparently lol I hope he gets to move on from that super quick and it may be better for Darby to, constantly living in the shadow of others.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It wasn’t the most creative match I agree but it didn’t make me puke, there was structure and an attempt to tell a story, two legit heavyweights slugging it out before 51k people and they were going nuts on a show which probably was long winded from experience.

You know this whole script thing is exaggerated extremely to another level, there is no script or structure in AEW - who’s to say their top guys are capable of delivering a promo like Punk ? balance is key, some guys ought to do well with a few pointers or a blank page while others need that guidance and mentors, otherwise it’s pure anarchy and your top stars will want to cosplay characters from their favourite cartoon shows.

Am sorry but you know after all the criticism Ambrose had I’d have to say am vastly disappointed, he got done dirty but he hasn’t been setting the world on fire, he has been solid and that’s all, I much prefer’d his promo work in CZW, but you’re getting a watered down version, his promo doesn’t move me at all like a Punk who gave me goosebumps even after the segment ended!

Yeah sure no one could have followed Punk but to put on utter garbage after him on national television was non-sensical, I liked the Jade squash it was simple and effective; she looked a real star in the making but how can you expect the audience or guys like me tuning in for Punk to pull for Luchasaurus, Jungle Boy and that no name bloke who fought Moxley , nothing moved me, I saw nothing new or compelling, just some guys who I can’t take seriously to begin with doing some flips.

I can’t get past the fact that Darby Allin looks like a skinny little rat and regardless of how much you rate him, is this the cosplay show? Darby ripping off Sting, Starks cosplaying The Rock and I rate Ricky a great deal its not necessary and then the top champion cosplaying Ricky and Morty and Hunter’s look from the early 2000’s except he can never cut a promo to save his life. In between it all there is potential for sure but the more you watch it the more reasons you will begin to find to defend it, I am really trying hard to enjoy AEW and will give it another go due to Punk but it’s not happening, but I can see why people can be desperate to enjoy it due to the same old from WWE but that’s not enough of a motivation for me to enjoy it in the same way because am off the product in general overall tuning in and out. But Punk going from working with Brock, Rock, Cena….to Darby Allin, that’s the next big thing apparently lol I hope he gets to move on from that super quick and it may be better for Darby to, constantly living in the shadow of others.

Oh for sure. Everyone shouldn't be allowed to just go out there and say whatever the f they like. Especially younger talent that is very green. But experienced guys should be trusted to go out there and cut a promo the way they want to cut it, while obviously keeping in mind the pointers given to them by the booker. And when I see certain guys cut promos in AEW, I feel like its coming from them and is consistent with their character, and not written by some 31 year old comedy writer who never saw professional wrestling in her life. Moxley may not be on Punk's level, but then again who is? He's still one of the best promos in the business for me. And one of the best wrestlers too. And regardless of what one may think of his work, I don't think he's done badly at all since leaving WWE. He had a long and successful reign as world champion that probably would have been even better if there were crowds. He has been positioned as a top guy and above all, he is happy and not miserable which he clearly was when he was wearing that idiotic gas mask to the ring and talking about how unhygienic the crowd was.

I also don't think the scripted aspect of WWE is exaggerated at all. Because based on an interview of Edge I heard recently and a bit on Cornette's podcast where someone sent him an actual script of a SmackDown episode, it seems pretty much everything except Roman's promos are scripted.

To each their own I guess. But personally I've become a fan of AEW in recent months. They've really stepped up their game once the crowds came back. And I have to say, I quite look forward to Dynamite and Rampage nowadays. I still think it has many issues, and I can completely understand people not liking it. But hey, it works for me. And the staleness of the WWE product is a big factor for me. I expected them to improve their product after the pandemic but its literally the same old s--t. A handful of good things in a pile of garbage. And RAW is by far the worst thing rivalling 2000s WCW Thunder. SmackDown still feels like it has some work put into it because of FOX.

 

[shaz619]

Oh for sure. Everyone shouldn't be allowed to just go out there and say whatever the f they like. Especially younger talent that is very green. But experienced guys should be trusted to go out there and cut a promo the way they want to cut it, while obviously keeping in mind the pointers given to them by the booker. And when I see certain guys cut promos in AEW, I feel like its coming from them and is consistent with their character, and not written by some 31 year old comedy writer who never saw professional wrestling in her life. Moxley may not be on Punk's level, but then again who is? He's still one of the best promos in the business for me. And one of the best wrestlers too. And regardless of what one may think of his work, I don't think he's done badly at all since leaving WWE. He had a long and successful reign as world champion that probably would have been even better if there were crowds. He has been positioned as a top guy and above all, he is happy and not miserable which he clearly was when he was wearing that idiotic gas mask to the ring and talking about how unhygienic the crowd was.

I also don't think the scripted aspect of WWE is exaggerated at all. Because based on an interview of Edge I heard recently and a bit on Cornette's podcast where someone sent him an actual script of a SmackDown episode, it seems pretty much everything except Roman's promos are scripted.

To each their own I guess. But personally I've become a fan of AEW in recent months. They've really stepped up their game once the crowds came back. And I have to say, I quite look forward to Dynamite and Rampage nowadays. I still think it has many issues, and I can completely understand people not liking it. But hey, it works for me. And the staleness of the WWE product is a big factor for me. I expected them to improve their product after the pandemic but its literally the same old s--t. A handful of good things in a pile of garbage. And RAW is by far the worst thing rivalling 2000s WCW Thunder. SmackDown still feels like it has some work put into it because of FOX.

I mean the script side of things is exaggerated when it is taken as every rasler should be given a blank sheet, I’ve read over the years where some performers have felt a script has helped them to, you look at AEW for example and outside some of the more credible professionals it feels like inmates are running the asylum! and I never meant it as an insult but I’ve had some interaction with Kenny myself where I told him that he would benefit massively from the NXT performance centre, you only need to see his latest segment on a landmark episode of Dynamite. Am also not a fan of too much power being given to the raslers, I’ve read about some trouble in paradise involving Cody and others backstage ? which is effecting his output and that’s sad if true, also Mox had a solid run at the start but he doesn’t seem himself to me lately, has been abusing drugs and drink ? some form of hierarchy is good, off course one which is flexible - otherwise you will either WCW or TNA yourself, even 1m weekly didn’t cut it for the latter in the end. RAW I agree is horrible while SD is a lot more watchable especially post-Fox era, despite their flaws they remain a powerhouse for obvious reasons but being someone who is also tired of some of the stale shtick I gave Dynamite a chance this week and it was horrible. While it may not resonate with the younger audience or get that big oily rub from Uncle Dave as much, NXT generally are very professional and slick, some production tweaks are needed but the actual output is brilliant in terms of the quality, it’s serious, limited botch mania, highly skilled and trained individuals, fusion with talent overseas and very coherent for the most part, am not a massive fan of the modern style but I’ve seen the best of it in NXT and as a pure wrestling product, who can truly compete with them ? Takeover 36 is a major example and I urgently recommend WALTER/Dragunov and the main event.

AEW need someone like HHH and Ryan Ward running things, imagine that!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I mean the script side of things is exaggerated when it is taken as every rasler should be given a blank sheet, I’ve read over the years where some performers have felt a script has helped them to, you look at AEW for example and outside some of the more credible professionals it feels like inmates are running the asylum! and I never meant it as an insult but I’ve had some interaction with Kenny myself where I told him that he would benefit massively from the NXT performance centre, you only need to see his latest segment on a landmark episode of Dynamite. Am also not a fan of too much power being given to the raslers, I’ve read about some trouble in paradise involving Cody and others backstage ? which is effecting his output and that’s sad if true, also Mox had a solid run at the start but he doesn’t seem himself to me lately, has been abusing drugs and drink ? some form of hierarchy is good, off course one which is flexible - otherwise you will either WCW or TNA yourself, even 1m weekly didn’t cut it for the latter in the end. RAW I agree is horrible while SD is a lot more watchable especially post-Fox era, despite their flaws they remain a powerhouse for obvious reasons but being someone who is also tired of some of the stale shtick I gave Dynamite a chance this week and it was horrible. While it may not resonate with the younger audience or get that big oily rub from Uncle Dave as much, NXT generally are very professional and slick, some production tweaks are needed but the actual output is brilliant in terms of the quality, it’s serious, limited botch mania, highly skilled and trained individuals, fusion with talent overseas and very coherent for the most part, am not a massive fan of the modern style but I’ve seen the best of it in NXT and as a pure wrestling product, who can truly compete with them ? Takeover 36 is a major example and I urgently recommend WALTER/Dragunov and the main event.

AEW need someone like HHH and Ryan Ward running things, imagine that!

I don't mind the inmates running the asylum part actually. It brings out some unique things sometimes and keeps the product fresh. Its better than 'sameness' which I see far too often with WWE. The Reigns-Cena match was a classic example of a typical WWE match i.e. 80% drama, 20% wrestling. And that's where WWE has gotten incredibly stale for me. Vince's obsession with 'sports entertainment' has slowly turned this company into some kind of circus-theme park-freak show. Very little stuff feels serious, and so much of it feels sanitized and aimed specifically at kids. And after reading Nick Khan's statements the other day, I feel all my perceptions about WWE are being reinforced. And the one thing that did work: NXT is now being handed to the biggest yes man in the history of the company: Bruce Prichard. Will be interesting to see how Vince and Bruce run this into the ground.

As for TakeOver 36. I plan to see it very soon. I'm still catching up with NXT by watching all their TakeOver PPVs. So far I'm upto 2020.

 

[shaz619]

I just read some terrible news that Triple H experienced a cardiac event due to a genetic heart condition. Am not as much of a fan of wrestling as I once was and maybe never been his biggest fan either outside his outstanding booking of NXT but he was a corner stone of the AE era and the RA era to in many ways during my youth, wishing him and the family well, hopefully he makes a speedy recovery

 

[The_KING]

Hope Triple H makes a full recovery. I know he isn't everyone's favourite, but he has always been one of my mine. He was big part of my childhood. One of the greatest heels of all time. I hope Triple H takes it easy and recovers fully before getting back to work. I suspect the recent events surrounding NXT must have taken a toll on his health. It mustn't be easy having to work with Vince McMahon who has become more and more senile in his advancing years.

 

[Asim_khan]

Sounds like the op was a success and he should be back soon. So some good news on the back of it. He went from the most hated man in Pro wrestling to one of the most beloved, and his NXT web show and takeovers are some of the greatest ppv's ever, he took great indy talent and gave them a bigger platform and allowed them to work a non WWE style and created absolute magic.

 

[Asim_khan]

NXT's official 2021 calendar, guess who the Wrestler in the month of September is. BAY BAY!

 

[The_KING]

Unpopular opinion but I am glad that NXT is getting a revamp. The purpose of NXT is get guys ready for main roster, just like FCW and OVW did back in the day. NXT shouldn’t be an extravagant Indy fest. That isn’t WWE style which is why so many of these NXT guys struggle on the main roster. People praise Triple H for NXT. The reality is he completely went away from what the actual focus of NXT should have been.

 

[shaz619]

Unpopular opinion but I am glad that NXT is getting a revamp. The purpose of NXT is get guys ready for main roster, just like FCW and OVW did back in the day. NXT shouldn’t be an extravagant Indy fest. That isn’t WWE style which is why so many of these NXT guys struggle on the main roster. People praise Triple H for NXT. The reality is he completely went away from what the actual focus of NXT should have been.

You have a point but it could be more to do with cost potentially as well as there is a rumour they want to sell the WWE

 

[Asim_khan]

You have a point but it could be more to do with cost potentially as well as there is a rumour they want to sell the WWE

AEW winning the Wednesday Night War can't have helped. I guess Ryan Ward and Triple H got unlucky against Money Mark Tony Khan. It's ok, you'll get them next time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Unpopular opinion but I am glad that NXT is getting a revamp. The purpose of NXT is get guys ready for main roster, just like FCW and OVW did back in the day. NXT shouldn’t be an extravagant Indy fest. That isn’t WWE style which is why so many of these NXT guys struggle on the main roster. People praise Triple H for NXT. The reality is he completely went away from what the actual focus of NXT should have been.

The wrestling business is evolving. The guys who would have been mid-carders/under-carders on Nitro 24 years ago and were wrestling for peanuts on the indies a few years ago are now main-eventers. Perceptions have changed greatly. Watching muscle bound freaks with little to no ring ability is no longer the generally-accepted principle. Triple H, who is a smart man and a student of the game (no pun intended) saw this and created something great in the form of NXT. An alternative wrestling promotion within the WWE system that took that indie style and gave it the professional presentation it never had on the indies. Unfortunately Vince's mindset which is still stuck 40 years in the past was never going to let that last.

AEW has brought new life to pro-wrestling because they are presenting a more modern and unique style that fans are gravitating towards. WWE on the other hand has taken the wrestling business to a point of irrelevance since the end of the Monday Night Wars but especially during the last 14 years. And its because they have regressed or stayed in the same place rather than evolving.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] finally caught up with TakeOver 36 a few days ago and cannot put into words how much I was blown away by WALTER v Draganov. Unquestionably one of the greatest pro-wrestling matches I have ever seen and a match that I feel could have taken place in literally any era of pro-wrestling.

The Cole-O'Reilly saga had a disappointing end. It didn't match up to their Unsanctioned match for me and felt like a cheap imitation of HBK v HHH from 2002. But it did cement Kyle O'Reilly as one of my favorite wrestlers in the world.

Even Joe vs. Kross exceeded my expectations. I thought it was absolutely perfect for what it was supposed to be. Marked out when Joe hit the muscle buster and became champion again.

But the entire PPV felt like the last NXT PPV to me, which made it kinda bittersweet. And in a way it was. Especially when you see the revamped new version of the show.

I didn't follow NXT all these years. But catching upto it in the last few months was nothing short of incredible as a wrestling fn. I'm sure NXT will be greatly missed by other wrestling fans too. Because it was really the last shred of credibility that WWE had when it came to providing a top-shelf in-ring product that didn't have all their signature quirks.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] finally caught up with TakeOver 36 a few days ago and cannot put into words how much I was blown away by WALTER v Draganov. Unquestionably one of the greatest pro-wrestling matches I have ever seen and a match that I feel could have taken place in literally any era of pro-wrestling.

The Cole-O'Reilly saga had a disappointing end. It didn't match up to their Unsanctioned match for me and felt like a cheap imitation of HBK v HHH from 2002. But it did cement Kyle O'Reilly as one of my favorite wrestlers in the world.

Even Joe vs. Kross exceeded my expectations. I thought it was absolutely perfect for what it was supposed to be. Marked out when Joe hit the muscle buster and became champion again.

But the entire PPV felt like the last NXT PPV to me, which made it kinda bittersweet. And in a way it was. Especially when you see the revamped new version of the show.

I didn't follow NXT all these years. But catching upto it in the last few months was nothing short of incredible as a wrestling fn. I'm sure NXT will be greatly missed by other wrestling fans too. Because it was really the last shred of credibility that WWE had when it came to providing a top-shelf in-ring product that didn't have all their signature quirks.

That was a brilliant match and once again showcased what a unique performer WALTER is, Lesnar brings a great deal of legitimacy and will always be criminally under rated; but there is a great deal of realism to how WALTER works.

NXT was certainly ground-breaking as far as modern in-ring performances are concerned, I don’t think the level of performances and consistency we saw will be matched again, am not a massive fan of the modern style as you know but NXT produced high quality professional wrestling matches which were executed very well and inspired a generation of technically gifted women and helped elevate their work to another level, we love the Flair’s, Sasha’s, Bayley and Becky’s but it all started with Paige and Emma. They bought in overseas talent from all around the world and it made for a much better in-ring product.

My personal favourites:

Paige/Emma - the first time they fought I think for the vacant NXT title or it was tournie final, the first Takeover match was great but this one was even better

Charlotte/Natalya - With Ric and Bret at ring side, they produced a masterpiece which will pull the heart strings, Natalya doesn’t get enough cred

Gargano/Ciampa - The no holds barred match / street fight, one of the greatest street fights in history and the story telling for this feud was the best, NXT mainly produced great matches but this feud was special

Cole/Gargano - I had jet lag and trying to stay awake with red bull and it was a bit of a high spot fest but they were done well and the match was incredibly dramatic

I recommend all the Takeover tag matches involving the revival, really made you go out of your way to watch a multi person tag and was refreshing to see a team cut the other off and use their ring IQ.

NXT did well to elevate the ring performances of stars and also gave them best possible platform to develop their characters to and as a promotion they will be missed. But, the poster making the comment about the main focus being a development territory also has merit, NXT tried to do both but it wasn’t their specific goal and especially when they signed a TV deal. FCW and OVW historically yielding fantastic results for the WWE, it’s all about who is the focal of such territories, with the likes of Jim and Heyman in charge you are bound to produce ATG’s and scout special talent. I however disagree with “I’m happy now that they scrapped NXT because they will purely be a dev territory now” that’s simply not true.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That was a brilliant match and once again showcased what a unique performer WALTER is, Lesnar brings a great deal of legitimacy and will always be criminally under rated; but there is a great deal of realism to how WALTER works.

NXT was certainly ground-breaking as far as modern in-ring performances are concerned, I don’t think the level of performances and consistency we saw will be matched again, am not a massive fan of the modern style as you know but NXT produced high quality professional wrestling matches which were executed very well and inspired a generation of technically gifted women and helped elevate their work to another level, we love the Flair’s, Sasha’s, Bayley and Becky’s but it all started with Paige and Emma. They bought in overseas talent from all around the world and it made for a much better in-ring product.

My personal favourites:

Paige/Emma - the first time they fought I think for the vacant NXT title or it was tournie final, the first Takeover match was great but this one was even better

Charlotte/Natalya - With Ric and Bret at ring side, they produced a masterpiece which will pull the heart strings, Natalya doesn’t get enough cred

Gargano/Ciampa - The no holds barred match / street fight, one of the greatest street fights in history and the story telling for this feud was the best, NXT mainly produced great matches but this feud was special

Cole/Gargano - I had jet lag and trying to stay awake with red bull and it was a bit of a high spot fest but they were done well and the match was incredibly dramatic

I recommend all the Takeover tag matches involving the revival, really made you go out of your way to watch a multi person tag and was refreshing to see a team cut the other off and use their ring IQ.

NXT did well to elevate the ring performances of stars and also gave them best possible platform to develop their characters to and as a promotion they will be missed. But, the poster making the comment about the main focus being a development territory also has merit, NXT tried to do both but it wasn’t their specific goal and especially when they signed a TV deal. FCW and OVW historically yielding fantastic results for the WWE, it’s all about who is the focal of such territories, with the likes of Jim and Heyman in charge you are bound to produce ATG’s and scout special talent. I however disagree with “I’m happy now that they scrapped NXT because they will purely be a dev territory now” that’s simply not true.

Good picks. Mine would be slightly different.

1. Cole v Gargano (2/3 Falls) - Not a big fan of Gargano but this match was brilliantly executed from start to finish and showcased the brilliance of both competitors. A rare perfect match.

2. WALTER v Draganov TakeOver 36

3. Adam Cole v Ricochet v Velveteen Dream v EC3 v Lars Sullivan v Killian Dain (Ladder) NXT TakeOver: Orlando 2018 - As far as modern ladder matches go this one was well and truly one of the very best. A car crash from start to finish and offered alot of different things because of the different types of wrestlers in the match. Great ay to crown the inaugural North American Champion.

4. Adam Cole v Kyle O’Reilly (Unsanctioned) NXT TakeOver: Stand & Deliver Night Two - This is a great rivalry stretching all the way back to ROH. It was always going to happen in NXT too and this Unsanctioned match did the feud justice.

5. Andrade Cien Almas v Johnny Gargano NXT TakeOver Philadelphia 2018 - Awesome freaking match.

5. The Revival (Scott Dawson & Dash Wilder) v DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) NXT TakeOver Brooklyn II 2016 - One of the greatest tag team matches I've ever seen.


NXT was great. Best thing about it for me was that it allowed guys to be themselves. Starting with Owens, Joe, Nakamura, Gargano, Ciampa...with Zayn they probably did him a favor by getting him to take off his mask...and continuing on with Cole, O'Reilly, Strong, Andrade etc. etc. They weren't neutered and broken down piece by piece like they likely would have been in a purely developmental territory and the freedom was there to wrestle high work-rate, exciting and even long matches. And alot of that was down to Hunter and Shawn running the show.

Now, with the direction they are taking I can't say I am going to have much interest. So for all intents and purposes, the old NXT is dead.

 

[shaz619]

Good picks. Mine would be slightly different.

1. Cole v Gargano (2/3 Falls) - Not a big fan of Gargano but this match was brilliantly executed from start to finish and showcased the brilliance of both competitors. A rare perfect match.

2. WALTER v Draganov TakeOver 36

3. Adam Cole v Ricochet v Velveteen Dream v EC3 v Lars Sullivan v Killian Dain (Ladder) NXT TakeOver: Orlando 2018 - As far as modern ladder matches go this one was well and truly one of the very best. A car crash from start to finish and offered alot of different things because of the different types of wrestlers in the match. Great ay to crown the inaugural North American Champion.

4. Adam Cole v Kyle O’Reilly (Unsanctioned) NXT TakeOver: Stand & Deliver Night Two - This is a great rivalry stretching all the way back to ROH. It was always going to happen in NXT too and this Unsanctioned match did the feud justice.

5. Andrade Cien Almas v Johnny Gargano NXT TakeOver Philadelphia 2018 - Awesome freaking match.

5. The Revival (Scott Dawson & Dash Wilder) v DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) NXT TakeOver Brooklyn II 2016 - One of the greatest tag team matches I've ever seen.


NXT was great. Best thing about it for me was that it allowed guys to be themselves. Starting with Owens, Joe, Nakamura, Gargano, Ciampa...with Zayn they probably did him a favor by getting him to take off his mask...and continuing on with Cole, O'Reilly, Strong, Andrade etc. etc. They weren't neutered and broken down piece by piece like they likely would have been in a purely developmental territory and the freedom was there to wrestle high work-rate, exciting and even long matches. And alot of that was down to Hunter and Shawn running the show.

Now, with the direction they are taking I can't say I am going to have much interest. So for all intents and purposes, the old NXT is dead.

I don’t think a pure dev territory would hinder a talent especially a good one like Ohio or Florida run by people who have a deep knowledge of the business and high level experience. The angle surrounding Zayn and his push as a baby face culminating in the title win was special and done so well, they did well to get him to get rid of the generico character because it enabled him to showcase more personality, the story is up there with Bryan’s organic rise as a face to WM30 except this was booked by the creative while WM30 was scripted (opener and main-event) by the fans. That angle was a great highlight for me and then the perfect send-off via the Nakamura match for Zayn infront of travelling British fans who created a tremendous atmosphere, it transitioned nicely into the KO era to and Balor had a nice run as well. Can’t forget Sasha/Bayley either at Brooklyn 1 I think, widely regarded as the greatest women's match of all time, I think it may have been the first women’s NXT match they done outside of Orlando, tremendous reception and I remember thinking not seeing anything quiet like that before from the ladies.

What do you make of Punk’s booking so far ? I see some pro’s and con’s to it. It’s great to shake off that rust - but this can also be done outside the live audience to, although they don’t have the infrastructure for it but there should always be options on that front. Darby match a good introduction but not sure if having him on every show, working any tom/dick/harry and doing commentary is a good business move and secondly - do we or you really want to see him in that spot, he’s a special attraction and should be used accordingly rather then making it feel like Hulk Hogan’s nostalgia comeback run in 2002, but at least Hogan didn’t work job squad - What happened to Punk’s ego…

 

[shaz619]

Good picks. Mine would be slightly different.

1. Cole v Gargano (2/3 Falls) - Not a big fan of Gargano but this match was brilliantly executed from start to finish and showcased the brilliance of both competitors. A rare perfect match.

2. WALTER v Draganov TakeOver 36

3. Adam Cole v Ricochet v Velveteen Dream v EC3 v Lars Sullivan v Killian Dain (Ladder) NXT TakeOver: Orlando 2018 - As far as modern ladder matches go this one was well and truly one of the very best. A car crash from start to finish and offered alot of different things because of the different types of wrestlers in the match. Great ay to crown the inaugural North American Champion.

4. Adam Cole v Kyle O’Reilly (Unsanctioned) NXT TakeOver: Stand & Deliver Night Two - This is a great rivalry stretching all the way back to ROH. It was always going to happen in NXT too and this Unsanctioned match did the feud justice.

5. Andrade Cien Almas v Johnny Gargano NXT TakeOver Philadelphia 2018 - Awesome freaking match.

5. The Revival (Scott Dawson & Dash Wilder) v DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) NXT TakeOver Brooklyn II 2016 - One of the greatest tag team matches I've ever seen.


NXT was great. Best thing about it for me was that it allowed guys to be themselves. Starting with Owens, Joe, Nakamura, Gargano, Ciampa...with Zayn they probably did him a favor by getting him to take off his mask...and continuing on with Cole, O'Reilly, Strong, Andrade etc. etc. They weren't neutered and broken down piece by piece like they likely would have been in a purely developmental territory and the freedom was there to wrestle high work-rate, exciting and even long matches. And alot of that was down to Hunter and Shawn running the show.

Now, with the direction they are taking I can't say I am going to have much interest. So for all intents and purposes, the old NXT is dead.

Good list though, a shout-out to the incredible WarGames matches to which were mind blowing literally.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don’t think a pure dev territory would hinder a talent especially a good one like Ohio or Florida run by people who have a deep knowledge of the business and high level experience. The angle surrounding Zayn and his push as a baby face culminating in the title win was special and done so well, they did well to get him to get rid of the generico character because it enabled him to showcase more personality, the story is up there with Bryan’s organic rise as a face to WM30 except this was booked by the creative while WM30 was scripted (opener and main-event) by the fans. That angle was a great highlight for me and then the perfect send-off via the Nakamura match for Zayn infront of travelling British fans who created a tremendous atmosphere, it transitioned nicely into the KO era to and Balor had a nice run as well. Can’t forget Sasha/Bayley either at Brooklyn 1 I think, widely regarded as the greatest women's match of all time, I think it may have been the first women’s NXT match they done outside of Orlando, tremendous reception and I remember thinking not seeing anything quiet like that before from the ladies.

What do you make of Punk’s booking so far ? I see some pro’s and con’s to it. It’s great to shake off that rust - but this can also be done outside the live audience to, although they don’t have the infrastructure for it but there should always be options on that front. Darby match a good introduction but not sure if having him on every show, working any tom/dick/harry and doing commentary is a good business move and secondly - do we or you really want to see him in that spot, he’s a special attraction and should be used accordingly rather then making it feel like Hulk Hogan’s nostalgia comeback run in 2002, but at least Hogan didn’t work job squad - What happened to Punk’s ego…

Yes but I feel its very easy for guys to get lost in the shuffle in a purely developmental territory. NXT was kind of a hybrid and didn't exactly break guys down and remake them in their own image (only some). Which is something that OVW/FCW had a tendency of doing. With guys who are completely green and haven't done pro wrestling before, I can understand that. But with alot of others, I don't.

I was watching Seth Rollins on Stone Cold's Broken Skull Sessions the other day. And he noted how when he came to FCW, one of the first things that he was told was to forget everything he had done before. As if none of his work in ROH mattered.

And that for me is a really negative aspect that WWE is doubling down on now since the inside story is that they will not be bringing in much guys from the indies unless they are enhancement talents. They'll actually be identifying guys at a young age through try-outs or scouting. And then building them from scratch. So now its like they've essentially completed their transformation and are well and truly, the Disney and McDonalds of wrestling.


I have a very similar view on Punk's booking as yours. The matches have obviously been good. But overusing Punk just to get ratings is not the right way to go in my opinion. The ratings for a show like Rampage are obviously going to be bad because of the channel and timeslot it is on. And as good as he is on commentary, I don't need to see him every week on Dynamite commentating. I agree completely, a Punk match needs to feel special. I mean a month and a half ago people didn't even know if they would ever see him wrestle again. And now he's wrestling Daniel Garcia and Sydal? And nothing against those two because both matches were good, and both are good wrestlers. Garcia might even have a bright future ahead of him. But the problem is that they've been presented as mid-card/undercard level guys so when goes 15 minutes with them, it makes him look bad to a certain extent as well.

 

[shaz619]

Yes but I feel its very easy for guys to get lost in the shuffle in a purely developmental territory. NXT was kind of a hybrid and didn't exactly break guys down and remake them in their own image (only some). Which is something that OVW/FCW had a tendency of doing. With guys who are completely green and haven't done pro wrestling before, I can understand that. But with alot of others, I don't.

I was watching Seth Rollins on Stone Cold's Broken Skull Sessions the other day. And he noted how when he came to FCW, one of the first things that he was told was to forget everything he had done before. As if none of his work in ROH mattered.

And that for me is a really negative aspect that WWE is doubling down on now since the inside story is that they will not be bringing in much guys from the indies unless they are enhancement talents. They'll actually be identifying guys at a young age through try-outs or scouting. And then building them from scratch. So now its like they've essentially completed their transformation and are well and truly, the Disney and McDonalds of wrestling.


I have a very similar view on Punk's booking as yours. The matches have obviously been good. But overusing Punk just to get ratings is not the right way to go in my opinion. The ratings for a show like Rampage are obviously going to be bad because of the channel and timeslot it is on. And as good as he is on commentary, I don't need to see him every week on Dynamite commentating. I agree completely, a Punk match needs to feel special. I mean a month and a half ago people didn't even know if they would ever see him wrestle again. And now he's wrestling Daniel Garcia and Sydal? And nothing against those two because both matches were good, and both are good wrestlers. Garcia might even have a bright future ahead of him. But the problem is that they've been presented as mid-card/undercard level guys so when goes 15 minutes with them, it makes him look bad to a certain extent as well.

OVW and FCW should be treated as largely independent from WWE, Jim has been vocal about his issues dealing with WWE talent relations at the time and much like Hunter’s NXT, the higher ups never paid too much attention to it, but OVW was unique in that it was largely successful in helping the company transition into the hugely successful RA era, you can lost in a shuffle in any promotion, but a dev territory’s primary purpose isn’t to put out compelling PPV events but to develop and harness talent, do your best to help them succeed on the main roster / using their strengths and not taking away from them, both Paul Heyman and Jim largely achieved that (their experience was of a much higher level then Hunter’s to) and the talent pool speaks for itself really, they helped inspire a golden generation of ATG’s.

FCW wasn’t as tight a run ship as OVW was but it had success to, especially European talent pool. Seth had massive personality issues and huge ego, Hunter had to get him to improve his attitude in NXT to.

Hunter did a good job but his primary focus wasn’t necessarily to give talent the tools to succeed on the main roster given he also had to appease the smark audience with the NXT specials, part of me feels it was also done to massage his massive ego given how he was hated as an active wrestler. As a promotion it was fantastic, as a pure dev territory; very debatable. Am not suggesting they are doing anything better with NXT now as far as developing talent is concerned, it’s more of the same except different people running it with Vince’s vision of what it should look like on mainstream television at the core.

Yep and Sydal the guy he worked with 10 years ago on RAW, you can find the match on youtube. This could transition to a heel persona potentially but even then he’s not used like a draw which is what I have an issue with, they have even used Christian much better, Edge is having a great comeback run to and has been treated like a star he rightfully is and there is Punk working with no name bum dossers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

OVW and FCW should be treated as largely independent from WWE, Jim has been vocal about his issues dealing with WWE talent relations at the time and much like Hunter’s NXT, the higher ups never paid too much attention to it, but OVW was unique in that it was largely successful in helping the company transition into the hugely successful RA era, you can lost in a shuffle in any promotion, but a dev territory’s primary purpose isn’t to put out compelling PPV events but to develop and harness talent, do your best to help them succeed on the main roster / using their strengths and not taking away from them, both Paul Heyman and Jim largely achieved that (their experience was of a much higher level then Hunter’s to) and the talent pool speaks for itself really, they helped inspire a golden generation of ATG’s.

FCW wasn’t as tight a run ship as OVW was but it had success to, especially European talent pool. Seth had massive personality issues and huge ego, Hunter had to get him to improve his attitude in NXT to.

Hunter did a good job but his primary focus wasn’t necessarily to give talent the tools to succeed on the main roster given he also had to appease the smark audience with the NXT specials, part of me feels it was also done to massage his massive ego given how he was hated as an active wrestler. As a promotion it was fantastic, as a pure dev territory; very debatable. Am not suggesting they are doing anything better with NXT now as far as developing talent is concerned, it’s more of the same except different people running it with Vince’s vision of what it should look like on mainstream television at the core.

Yep and Sydal the guy he worked with 10 years ago on RAW, you can find the match on youtube. This could transition to a heel persona potentially but even then he’s not used like a draw which is what I have an issue with, they have even used Christian much better, Edge is having a great comeback run to and has been treated like a star he rightfully is and there is Punk working with no name bum dossers.

You make valid points. Can't say I disagree with anything much.

The weird thing about Punk for me is that I was thinking he was going to transition into a feud with Ricky Starks. Because him feuding with Hobbs and Team Taz seemed like it would lead to that. Instead all he is doing is wrestling underneath guys just to boost Rampage's rating which isn't going to draw big in the first place considering the time slot it is in.

He's wrestling Bobby Fish tonight. Although he is obviously not an underneath guy and a good worker, I feel like its time for Punk to enter into a meaningful feud that leads to a match at Full Gear. Maybe it happens tonight. But I just hope it isn't with Wardlow (as Tony Khan's list suggests) who is far too green and simply not good enough to wrestle a match with Punk on a PPV.

 

[shaz619]

You make valid points. Can't say I disagree with anything much.

The weird thing about Punk for me is that I was thinking he was going to transition into a feud with Ricky Starks. Because him feuding with Hobbs and Team Taz seemed like it would lead to that. Instead all he is doing is wrestling underneath guys just to boost Rampage's rating which isn't going to draw big in the first place considering the time slot it is in.

He's wrestling Bobby Fish tonight. Although he is obviously not an underneath guy and a good worker, I feel like its time for Punk to enter into a meaningful feud that leads to a match at Full Gear. Maybe it happens tonight. But I just hope it isn't with Wardlow (as Tony Khan's list suggests) who is far too green and simply not good enough to wrestle a match with Punk on a PPV.

Have you watched any PPV recently? I caught up with the Saudi show because it’s the only time a European fan can watch live wrestling outside zero dark thirty hours lol I can’t fathom the hypocritical yankees who out of all things they could complain about, have an major gripe with events in the holy land. Anyway I thought HIAC was good (Meltzer seemed to enjoy it quiet a bit he likes a good spot fest doesn’t he), it was a fantastic depiction of athleticism and it’s insane how Edge can still go at a high level, but if you ignore the cage it was basically a TLC match, I’ve seen better HIAC matches imo, Drew/BigE surprised me and I thoroughly enjoyed the main-event, it was great to see Brock back in the ring after so long, I am enjoying him even more as a face and he is such a breath of fresh air in the ring, only he can work like that and his selling is absolutely outstanding, he comes across as a guy who hates everyone and everything but he loves and respects the business in a way others don’t and he learn from GOATs like Taker and Kane who he use to travel with on the road, Brock is the only guy I’ve seen sell not just in the ring, but well after the match until he gets in his car, I enjoyed that anyhow it felt like a Heavyweight fight with a high level of realism, being a big Boxing fan to and seeing the epic Fury/Wilder fight, I was like this is wrestling’s equivalent. I got to share a couple of amusing moments I had while watching with my partner who is more a casual, she said ‘you know when Brock use to do that arm thing, was it real’ - I said off course if was! Also, during the Balor/Xavier match they shook hands and she said to me ‘Is this a friendly?’ I go yeah, they’re both good guys (faces) , then she said ‘what’s the point of fighting’ When you watch with a casual in this day and age, you begin to see why wrestling is not taken as seriously anymore, here was a great example to show you the legitimacy of Lesnar and also how a face v face match is not so impactful and especially with little meaning behind it even if it were a tournie finals. Contrar to smark opinion on how ‘characters are more interesting now’ yeah everyone can pull of a tweener like an Austin or Punk, just having a match where do guys fight / have no beef and shake hands etc makes the bizz look like a joke.

Speaking of Punk, that would have made sense / was interesting, a potential feud with Starks. Punk comes in with a huge profile but I think it would have been a million times better to protect him, shake of the rust behind the scenes, work with main event talent at the top of the card (I know there are limited options but still) and then it makes more sense to help elevate the upper mid-carders. I agree with you on the Rampage boost that seems to be the reason behind it but am of the view, don’t just put someone on TV for the sake of it, isn’t that what we criticise other companies for, they have negated Punk’s drawing power this way to and in doing so he wont be moving the needle as much on Rampage as he could during special appearances, every smark and their dog criticise how Lesnar is used but this is one of the few things the E has got correct (directly or indirectly) post ending Taker streak his booking has been brilliant and a big part of him retaining his aura as a special attraction which gives a big boost to TV and PPV events is because he isn’t used so much, obviously Lesnar is one of a kind and it takes a special performer to pull it off but Punk can be seen in a similar vein, he is bigger draw now then he ever was and somehow that is not being utilised, heck Dana White booked him better then this. Do you look forward to what Punk is going to do every week? honeymoon period is over for me but am interested to see Bryan back in the main-event picture. I haven’t watched in a while but Adam Cole came across as a little b on national TV in his first couple of weeks, something which I never felt when he was in the old NXT.

 

[shaz619]

The biggest plus among the new incarnation of NXT has to be Mandy Rose, we all have to agree on that right

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Have you watched any PPV recently? I caught up with the Saudi show because it’s the only time a European fan can watch live wrestling outside zero dark thirty hours lol I can’t fathom the hypocritical yankees who out of all things they could complain about, have an major gripe with events in the holy land. Anyway I thought HIAC was good (Meltzer seemed to enjoy it quiet a bit he likes a good spot fest doesn’t he), it was a fantastic depiction of athleticism and it’s insane how Edge can still go at a high level, but if you ignore the cage it was basically a TLC match, I’ve seen better HIAC matches imo, Drew/BigE surprised me and I thoroughly enjoyed the main-event, it was great to see Brock back in the ring after so long, I am enjoying him even more as a face and he is such a breath of fresh air in the ring, only he can work like that and his selling is absolutely outstanding, he comes across as a guy who hates everyone and everything but he loves and respects the business in a way others don’t and he learn from GOATs like Taker and Kane who he use to travel with on the road, Brock is the only guy I’ve seen sell not just in the ring, but well after the match until he gets in his car, I enjoyed that anyhow it felt like a Heavyweight fight with a high level of realism, being a big Boxing fan to and seeing the epic Fury/Wilder fight, I was like this is wrestling’s equivalent. I got to share a couple of amusing moments I had while watching with my partner who is more a casual, she said ‘you know when Brock use to do that arm thing, was it real’ - I said off course if was! Also, during the Balor/Xavier match they shook hands and she said to me ‘Is this a friendly?’ I go yeah, they’re both good guys (faces) , then she said ‘what’s the point of fighting’ When you watch with a casual in this day and age, you begin to see why wrestling is not taken as seriously anymore, here was a great example to show you the legitimacy of Lesnar and also how a face v face match is not so impactful and especially with little meaning behind it even if it were a tournie finals. Contrar to smark opinion on how ‘characters are more interesting now’ yeah everyone can pull of a tweener like an Austin or Punk, just having a match where do guys fight / have no beef and shake hands etc makes the bizz look like a joke.

Speaking of Punk, that would have made sense / was interesting, a potential feud with Starks. Punk comes in with a huge profile but I think it would have been a million times better to protect him, shake of the rust behind the scenes, work with main event talent at the top of the card (I know there are limited options but still) and then it makes more sense to help elevate the upper mid-carders. I agree with you on the Rampage boost that seems to be the reason behind it but am of the view, don’t just put someone on TV for the sake of it, isn’t that what we criticise other companies for, they have negated Punk’s drawing power this way to and in doing so he wont be moving the needle as much on Rampage as he could during special appearances, every smark and their dog criticise how Lesnar is used but this is one of the few things the E has got correct (directly or indirectly) post ending Taker streak his booking has been brilliant and a big part of him retaining his aura as a special attraction which gives a big boost to TV and PPV events is because he isn’t used so much, obviously Lesnar is one of a kind and it takes a special performer to pull it off but Punk can be seen in a similar vein, he is bigger draw now then he ever was and somehow that is not being utilised, heck Dana White booked him better then this. Do you look forward to what Punk is going to do every week? honeymoon period is over for me but am interested to see Bryan back in the main-event picture. I haven’t watched in a while but Adam Cole came across as a little b on national TV in his first couple of weeks, something which I never felt when he was in the old NXT.

I don't know man. I have a somewhat different opinion of the whole Saudi deal. Biggest reason being that I don't think too highly of Saudi Arabia. I mean this is a country that essentially treats women as second-class citizens, is deeply bigoted and racist across all stratas of society and is ruled by a tyrannical dictator who chopped up a journalist a couple of years ago.

The Yanks certainly have no right to be judgmental considering they themselves would sell their soul for the right price if they got that chance. Which is exactly what the WWE did.

But I couldn't help but scoff at the PR campaign to turn Saudi Arabia into this supposedly great place. A place where their female wrestlers have to wear freaking t-shirts while wrestling. Also shows how little WWE care about the product and how much more they care about the money. Because they are essentially raking as much/or more than what they make from WrestleMania.

The PPV was fine. The show peaked with the first match for me. I quite liked the HIAC match. Although I too have seen better ones, I really enjoyed this. Some crazy bumps, good story-telling and alot of furniture. Drew v Big E was a typical WWE big moves match. Didn't care much for it because frankly I don't care for Big E at all. Oldberg managed to drag himself to an 11 minute match which really surprised me. But the match itself was garbage. You could tell they were trying to drag it based on how much they fought on the outside. I really hope this Oldberg run ends soon because I don't know how many more of these B.S matches (that are built up as big matches) I will be able to take. If I were WWE I would have Roman smash him t Royal Rumble and send him on his way.

Brock v Roman was very good until the finish, which was a typical screwy finish to prolong a feud. Which is fine by me. Why waste a top-tier match like this on the Saudi show, when it can be the main-event at WrestleMania? I agree with everything you said about Brock. When he is committed and in the zone, there is simply no one like him. No one can have that kind of a match and no one can sell like that. I think with Heyman in the middle, this feud has easily been the best thing about WWE in the last few months. In the past when these two feuded there was a massive disconnect because Brock was Brock but Roman was an unlikable babyface that was being shoved down people's throats. But now the dynamic has changed completely.

I used to be very negative about Brock's booking during the early days. But I get it now. Because fact is there is simply no one like him and no one who can do what he does. And the biggest winner from that is the WWE because who better to put guys over (when the time is right) than Brock Lesnar? In recent times we saw that with Seth and Drew. Although got the short end of the stick because of COVID.

As for AEW, let's see what happens with Punk. Judging by what I am seeing they might just be playing the arc of Punk questioning his ability in the ring because he can't put guys away as comprehensively as he used. There might be some potential for a story there, maybe. We'll have to wait and see. As for Bryan, I think he should be the next World Champion. The positives are numerous and I think they simply are not going to get a better chance than now. Page is just not ready in my book. Plus Bryan vs. Kenny for the title simply needs to happen with Bryan coming out on-top.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The biggest plus among the new incarnation of NXT has to be Mandy Rose, we all have to agree on that right

Hahaha agreed big time!

Although I am quite impressed by Bron Breakker (what a stupid name they've given him) too. He seems like someone who could be their next Roman Reigns. And he is Rick Steiner's son, so he has the family pedigree too.

 

[shaz619]

Hahaha agreed big time!

Although I am quite impressed by Bron Breakker (what a stupid name they've given him) too. He seems like someone who could be their next Roman Reigns. And he is Rick Steiner's son, so he has the family pedigree too.

I’ve not actually seen him work honestly speaking but he is one for the future, I suppose at this stage a work in progress but he has the family pedigree for sure.

Will get back on the rest of the post but going back to your view on Saudi, I totally agree I have a number of issues with the nations hypocrisy and especially export of terrorism / intolerance towards the Islamic views of others (might be one for another thread) but I take issue with Americans taking the moral high ground on this one, it’s hilarious

 

[shaz619]

Hahaha agreed big time!

Although I am quite impressed by Bron Breakker (what a stupid name they've given him) too. He seems like someone who could be their next Roman Reigns. And he is Rick Steiner's son, so he has the family pedigree too.

A story, At WM Axes, we were due to have a pic with KO but WWE had said he is done now time running out etc but you guys can take pics with Mandy Rose instead, KO would jokingly say not a bad replacement! then take a quick selfie with everyone queuing up! he’s such a good bloke, didn’t need to do that

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’ve not actually seen him work honestly speaking but he is one for the future, I suppose at this stage a work in progress but he has the family pedigree for sure.

Will get back on the rest of the post but going back to your view on Saudi, I totally agree I have a number of issues with the nations hypocrisy and especially export of terrorism / intolerance towards the Islamic views of others (might be one for another thread) but I take issue with Americans taking the moral high ground on this one, it’s hilarious

He's pretty green. I mean he has only wrestled a handful of matches. But definitely seems like someone who could be a massive name (face of the company level) because he has all the things that Vince looks for and he's fairly decent on the mic too. Somewhat reminiscent of his uncle Scott, when he talks.

On no I agree with that. Americans have no right to act morally superior considering what they have and continue to do. And sure thing, take as long as you need. No issues.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

A story, At WM Axes, we were due to have a pic with KO but WWE had said he is done now time running out etc but you guys can take pics with Mandy Rose instead, KO would jokingly say not a bad replacement! then take a quick selfie with everyone queuing up! he’s such a good bloke, didn’t need to do that

Hahah. I love KO. Great gesture. At this point I'm just waiting for him to show up at AEW. Because it seems everyone knows that his time with the company is up. And he is just waiting for the clock to run out.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What are your thoughts about the revamped NXT 2.0?

Any pro wrestling fan out there?

I was a big big fan of NXT from 2016-2020 era. But the recent changes done to the great brand of hard hitting wrestling has been quite underwhelming and is making me lose my interest on weekly basis.
The only good thing going on is Ciampa as the champion who probably is transitional as well. The intensity of wrestling has gone down. I am only watching it for Ciampa, Gargano and to an extent O' Reilly and Dunne(both of whom have been lost in the shuffle. I think 2018-2019 NXT was the best wrestling program since the Attitude era.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

My favorite matches from NXT are:

1. WarGames 2. Undisputed Era vs Ricochet,Pete Dunne and War Raiders(The intensity, brutality and storytelling was top notch in that match especially the end where Ricochet and Dunne earned each other's respect and celebrated by climbing on top of the cage)

2. Ciampa vs Gargano 1 (The most anticipated match in NXT history probably and it delivered and made Ciampa the best heel in wrestling at that time)

3. Gargano vs Cole 1. (The injury to Ciampa made that build up sort of anticlimactic, and not many people were rooting for Gargano but after 2 falls, Gargano had made sure each and everyone in the crowd was cheering him on)

4. 6 way ladder match for NA championship. Adam Cole vs Ricochet vs EC3 vs Lars Sullivan vs Killian Dane vs Velveteen Dream (Everyone knew what was going to come in the match. Ricochet became an instant crowd favorite and Cole was launched into his ascension and Dream also got noticed)

5. Walter vs Ilja Dragunov 2 (Hands down the most realistic and brutal match in WWE)

6. Tyler Bate (c) vs Pete Dunne (Still can't believe both haven't been made top guys 4 years later)

7. Finn Balor vs Pete Dunne (Think this match is pretty underrated, both superstars brought their hard hitting style and joint manipulation technique and meshed together extremely well. The first 10 mins were pure british style technical wrestling followed by the mayhem of near falls.)

8. Adam Cole vs Ricochet (Just pure pleasure for wrestling fans, not really much story except for NA championship on the line)

9. Ciampa vs Velveteen Dream (Another underrated gem. This was a perfect example of Ciampa making his opponent look a million dollars. Everyone wanted Dream beating the hell out of Ciampa but he fell short making Ciampa even more despicable)

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Love you Ric, but giving credit where credit is due - all 6 of us drew a rating and <a href="https://twitter.com/CMPunk?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CMPunk</a> leads the pack. <a href="https://t.co/TurA1TJaft">https://t.co/TurA1TJaft</a></p>— Sting (@Sting) <a href="https://twitter.com/Sting/status/1475613751562805249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sting is such a class act, he's too nice a fella to have ever worked in the wrestling business and I think he downplays how big a star he really is too much. Nice put over from Ric, he had his first match with Sting for the real world's championship back in 1988 at clash of the champions in the Greensboro Coliseum where this week's AEW was held, and the main-event was brilliant, the best 6-man tag they've put on in their history and it all felt like a real big deal with serious performers and Sting's connection with the arena added to it. When you cut the non-sensical dweeb hipster smark fanbase out and the deformed spot monkeys, AEW is capable of producing the goods and are on a bit of a run right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My favorite matches from NXT are:

1. WarGames 2. Undisputed Era vs Ricochet,Pete Dunne and War Raiders(The intensity, brutality and storytelling was top notch in that match especially the end where Ricochet and Dunne earned each other's respect and celebrated by climbing on top of the cage)

2. Ciampa vs Gargano 1 (The most anticipated match in NXT history probably and it delivered and made Ciampa the best heel in wrestling at that time)

3. Gargano vs Cole 1. (The injury to Ciampa made that build up sort of anticlimactic, and not many people were rooting for Gargano but after 2 falls, Gargano had made sure each and everyone in the crowd was cheering him on)

4. 6 way ladder match for NA championship. Adam Cole vs Ricochet vs EC3 vs Lars Sullivan vs Killian Dane vs Velveteen Dream (Everyone knew what was going to come in the match. Ricochet became an instant crowd favorite and Cole was launched into his ascension and Dream also got noticed)

5. Walter vs Ilja Dragunov 2 (Hands down the most realistic and brutal match in WWE)

6. Tyler Bate (c) vs Pete Dunne (Still can't believe both haven't been made top guys 4 years later)

7. Finn Balor vs Pete Dunne (Think this match is pretty underrated, both superstars brought their hard hitting style and joint manipulation technique and meshed together extremely well. The first 10 mins were pure british style technical wrestling followed by the mayhem of near falls.)

8. Adam Cole vs Ricochet (Just pure pleasure for wrestling fans, not really much story except for NA championship on the line)

9. Ciampa vs Velveteen Dream (Another underrated gem. This was a perfect example of Ciampa making his opponent look a million dollars. Everyone wanted Dream beating the hell out of Ciampa but he fell short making Ciampa even more despicable)

Good list agree big time on certain picks. Ciampa-Gargano though never delivered for me personally. Despite the great rivalry I found their matches overbooked to the point where I just wanted them to end.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Any pro wrestling fan out there?

I was a big big fan of NXT from 2016-2020 era. But the recent changes done to the great brand of hard hitting wrestling has been quite underwhelming and is making me lose my interest on weekly basis.
The only good thing going on is Ciampa as the champion who probably is transitional as well. The intensity of wrestling has gone down. I am only watching it for Ciampa, Gargano and to an extent O' Reilly and Dunne(both of whom have been lost in the shuffle. I think 2018-2019 NXT was the best wrestling program since the Attitude era.

Stopped watching months ago. Glad to see O'Reilly moved on an went to AEW where he actually has a chance of progressing forward. Gargano seems to be gone for good too. And hopefully Ciampa, Dunne and Strong will get called up to the main roster.

Only good thing about that show is Bron Breakker, who is probably going to be the next Roman Reigns.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What do you make of the Cody Rhodes leaving AEW news? Rumors are bereft that he is going to WWE. It would make a lot of sense if he did considering he has been getting the John Cena treatment for a long time and everything he has been involved in over the past year feels like something that wandered off from WWE television.

But alot of people are saying its a work. His last promo was certainly cryptic. And if so, it would be one of the greatest works in pro-wrestling history considering AEW and Rhodes have released official statements.

Then again, I am also incredibly happy and grateful that his untalented wife is off TV and want that to stick.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What do you make of the Cody Rhodes leaving AEW news? Rumors are bereft that he is going to WWE. It would make a lot of sense if he did considering he has been getting the John Cena treatment for a long time and everything he has been involved in over the past year feels like something that wandered off from WWE television.

But alot of people are saying its a work. His last promo was certainly cryptic. And if so, it would be one of the greatest works in pro-wrestling history considering AEW and Rhodes have released official statements.

Then again, I am also incredibly happy and grateful that his untalented wife is off TV and want that to stick.

I think if he did choose to go there, it would be a poor decision. WWE may offer him a ridiculous package and unless it includes creative control, why walk into a place who never treated him like a star and even if they give him a push, chances are he’d fizzle out, plus Cody’s in-ring abilities will not be suited to the WWE system, they are not going to give him a blank slate in the ring and unfortunately he isn’t gifted enough to get the most out of what WWE demand in the ring like a Bryan was capable off. In theory if they strapped a Rocket to his back it’s a different story but just look at how they treated a Bray and where Drew is now despite ticking all the boxes. WWE are at an all time high as a business and are coasting on that success, but thanks to the network era their shows and events are so creatively bad it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth, and the thing is they will continue to thrive despite how awful they have been on the whole, they remind me of some Boxing promoters who only spend money on the main event and the undercard tends to be full of taxi drivers who are just making up the numbers. It’s hard to say if it’s a work or not, but when you look at all the guys AEW kept hiring they are now realising it’s not good business and letting go of a number of their talents to cut their losses so perhaps they may not go our of their way for Cody because of that. I know Shane was involved but the Rumble was horrible man Jesus Christ apart from the opener what a sh!t show, AEW isn’t perfect but they have something for every wrestling fan every week.

AEW are also in a good position to negotiation wise, Cody’s options in America are limited. No star still in their prime relatively wants to go to IMPACT and MLW/NWA Powerr wont have the money. WWE and AEW now are his only options and his old company is not necessarily the most appealing even if they pay him well.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] On the other hand, if Jade went to the E it might be a better move for her imo because the women’s division is excellent, you could book certain segments better but they are so consistent in the ring and there would be so many fantastic match-ups available, plus Vince is a massive mark for the hench look and Jade is a specimen, it would be shocking if they’d botch her booking for those reasons

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think if he did choose to go there, it would be a poor decision. WWE may offer him a ridiculous package and unless it includes creative control, why walk into a place who never treated him like a star and even if they give him a push, chances are he’d fizzle out, plus Cody’s in-ring abilities will not be suited to the WWE system, they are not going to give him a blank slate in the ring and unfortunately he isn’t gifted enough to get the most out of what WWE demand in the ring like a Bryan was capable off. In theory if they strapped a Rocket to his back it’s a different story but just look at how they treated a Bray and where Drew is now despite ticking all the boxes. WWE are at an all time high as a business and are coasting on that success, but thanks to the network era their shows and events are so creatively bad it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth, and the thing is they will continue to thrive despite how awful they have been on the whole, they remind me of some Boxing promoters who only spend money on the main event and the undercard tends to be full of taxi drivers who are just making up the numbers. It’s hard to say if it’s a work or not, but when you look at all the guys AEW kept hiring they are now realising it’s not good business and letting go of a number of their talents to cut their losses so perhaps they may not go our of their way for Cody because of that. I know Shane was involved but the Rumble was horrible man Jesus Christ apart from the opener what a sh!t show, AEW isn’t perfect but they have something for every wrestling fan every week.

AEW are also in a good position to negotiation wise, Cody’s options in America are limited. No star still in their prime relatively wants to go to IMPACT and MLW/NWA Powerr wont have the money. WWE and AEW now are his only options and his old company is not necessarily the most appealing even if they pay him well.

I don't know man. I think current tone-deaf Cody fits in perfectly with the WWE environment. In WWE he was always saddled with ridiculous gimmicks after his run in the Legacy stable. Since he left WWE he got over with a gimmick that is closer to who he is. And credit to him, he was a main-event level star everywhere he wrestled whether it was ROH, NJPW or AEW. He even held onto the freaking NWA Championship (for whatever that's worth these days). I think he has already proved alot of his critics in WWE wrong. As a wrestler he is pretty good. He has the basics right and can wrestle a classic wrestling match anytime which means he won't struggle even if he is not allowed to do his Cody cutters or flaming table spots. Physically, he looks more like a star (barring the atrocious neck tattoo ofcourse) than he ever did during his initial years. He's got more muscle, tights suit him, the American Nightmare stuff fits in to who he is.

Ofcourse I agree with you that there's no way of telling if it'll work out or not. WWE has promised guys keys to the kingdom in the past and then subsequently dropped them like a hot potato. But I think Cody now has become bigger than he ever was. He didn't just wrestle in different promotions, he promoted and sold out the biggest freaking wrestling event in the US outside WWE in years, he worked as an EVP at AEW, he was a judge on a freaking game-show and even got TNT to finance his and his wife's indulgent and idiotic reality TV show. These are things that will really appeal to WWE. Because they are salivating at the mouth to get their hands on another Miz.


All this would make me believe that he is smart enough to get a favorable contract that will allow him to have some weight if he comes in like alot of veterans (Randy, AJ, KO, Rollins) and main-eventers/legends (Lashley, Reigns, Lesnar, Edge) do. In a sense its is analogous to Lesnar leaving WWE, going to UFC and coming back an even bigger star than he previously was. Ofcourse Cody's example is on a much, much smaller scale but you get what I'm saying.

Again, I'm not personally sure if its a work or shoot. I don't want to come out as a dumb mark if its a work but then again all the dirt sheets are reporting it. And AEW and the Rhodes have released official statements too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] On the other hand, if Jade went to the E it might be a better move for her imo because the women’s division is excellent, you could book certain segments better but they are so consistent in the ring and there would be so many fantastic match-ups available, plus Vince is a massive mark for the hench look and Jade is a specimen, it would be shocking if they’d botch her booking for those reasons

For WWE it would be incredible. But as a wrestling fan I'm not sure I would want her there. Wardlow is another one. Personally I would want these guys and gals to make AEW better because AEW actually has some potential as a wrestling promotion. WWE is sadly too forgone in my opinion. They've gone down the corporate rabbithole and the only place they are ending up is where they are referred to as the McDonalds/Disney of wrestling. The logical progression for them is towards theme parks and McDonalds toys.

Jade and Britt Baker are the only salvaging elements of AEW's pathetic women's division. I guess Serena Deeb and Thunder Rosa too. And with Jade they really have someone they can build their women's division around as they try and find more high-level female wrestling talent. As someone who first saw her on AEW TV I would want to see her grow into a better wrestler and bigger star in AEW.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Stopped watching months ago. Glad to see O'Reilly moved on an went to AEW where he actually has a chance of progressing forward. Gargano seems to be gone for good too. And hopefully Ciampa, Dunne and Strong will get called up to the main roster.

Only good thing about that show is Bron Breakker, who is probably going to be the next Roman Reigns.

But the problem I have with AEW is they keep beefing up their roster without doing much for a lot of their guys. Reilly has done nothing since arriving in AEW. They need to have a few story writers as well that makes sure wrestlers are consistently in storylines. I think Strong might get released soon as he is already approaching 40 and has lately being booked to put over guys. I like LA Knight/Eli Drake. He pretty much fits WWE's bill of a performer. But I would hate for him to get Ziggler'd after a few months of getting called up. Bron is talented but I don't really like him that much. Totally lacks mic skills and is more in the mold of a power grappler that WWE prefers. He isn't really a technical wrestler and doesn't tell good stories in his matches like the good old NXT/WWE guys did/do.

I think Carmelo Hayes is going under the radar for being how good he is and how much he is improving. Think he was already a wrestler in the indies and not a talent hunt from other sports. He shows a lot of good nuances in his matches that older fans find good.

The most underrated guy in NXT is probably Santos Escobar. He never seems to have a bad match despite all the interferences and poor booking. Adjusts himself very well with the more limited wrestlers like Karrion Kross and Xyon Quinn. Think he should become what Andrade was supposed to become once he gets called up.

But yes, I don't follow NXT anymore and it's merely a developmental ever since Prichard took over from Trips.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know man. I think current tone-deaf Cody fits in perfectly with the WWE environment. In WWE he was always saddled with ridiculous gimmicks after his run in the Legacy stable. Since he left WWE he got over with a gimmick that is closer to who he is. And credit to him, he was a main-event level star everywhere he wrestled whether it was ROH, NJPW or AEW. He even held onto the freaking NWA Championship (for whatever that's worth these days). I think he has already proved alot of his critics in WWE wrong. As a wrestler he is pretty good. He has the basics right and can wrestle a classic wrestling match anytime which means he won't struggle even if he is not allowed to do his Cody cutters or flaming table spots. Physically, he looks more like a star (barring the atrocious neck tattoo ofcourse) than he ever did during his initial years. He's got more muscle, tights suit him, the American Nightmare stuff fits in to who he is.

Ofcourse I agree with you that there's no way of telling if it'll work out or not. WWE has promised guys keys to the kingdom in the past and then subsequently dropped them like a hot potato. But I think Cody now has become bigger than he ever was. He didn't just wrestle in different promotions, he promoted and sold out the biggest freaking wrestling event in the US outside WWE in years, he worked as an EVP at AEW, he was a judge on a freaking game-show and even got TNT to finance his and his wife's indulgent and idiotic reality TV show. These are things that will really appeal to WWE. Because they are salivating at the mouth to get their hands on another Miz.


All this would make me believe that he is smart enough to get a favorable contract that will allow him to have some weight if he comes in like alot of veterans (Randy, AJ, KO, Rollins) and main-eventers/legends (Lashley, Reigns, Lesnar, Edge) do. In a sense its is analogous to Lesnar leaving WWE, going to UFC and coming back an even bigger star than he previously was. Ofcourse Cody's example is on a much, much smaller scale but you get what I'm saying.

Again, I'm not personally sure if its a work or shoot. I don't want to come out as a dumb mark if its a work but then again all the dirt sheets are reporting it. And AEW and the Rhodes have released official statements too.

He definitely has the potential to have a better run now as a main eventer then he did before due to the reasons you state and things he has done outside the company, in a similar vein to Drew Mcyntyre but my doubt is if it will be sustained given how creatively bankrupt they have been. With Jade she could grow in AEW for sure but the depth in womens talent is poor apart from Baker and Thunder Rosa, in the E they’ve done an outstanding job developing the women and there are so many exciting match ups, but you know she could play the long game to before jumping ship and maximising her own value

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He definitely has the potential to have a better run now as a main eventer then he did before due to the reasons you state and things he has done outside the company, in a similar vein to Drew Mcyntyre but my doubt is if it will be sustained given how creatively bankrupt they have been. With Jade she could grow in AEW for sure but the depth in womens talent is poor apart from Baker and Thunder Rosa, in the E they’ve done an outstanding job developing the women and there are so many exciting match ups, but you know she could play the long game to before jumping ship and maximising her own value

Don't think he will get any higher than IC/US Title division if he does sign up. Drew always had the ingredients that WWE craves. He just fine tuned it and became bigger and more serious during his time away from WWE. Cody on the other hand doesn't really fit the bill of Vince's guy. Unless something drastic happens like DBry did back in 2013-14, can't see Cody going Drew's route.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Good list agree big time on certain picks. Ciampa-Gargano though never delivered for me personally. Despite the great rivalry I found their matches overbooked to the point where I just wanted them to end.

Ciampa-Gargano 2,3 and 4 yes, they were overbooked. But I found the first one perfect although the stipulation of Gargano getting his contract back was unnecessary and made the result predictable. Their last man standing match wasn't intended to be their third but Black got injured. The cinematic match was simply not good and unnecessary.

 

[Rajdeep]

Have you guys heard about the young talent name Bill Goldberg whom WWE is giving a push? He looks like someone very talented and will be facing Roman Reigns for heavyweight title in Elimination Chamber ppv.

 

[shaz619]

Have you guys heard about the young talent name Bill Goldberg whom WWE is giving a push? He looks like someone very talented and will be facing Roman Reigns for heavyweight title in Elimination Chamber ppv.

Lol the saudi royals have a lot to do with it, they wanted Yokozuna for one the events there Vince is a mark for the hench look and not many look like Bill even at his age his condition is insane but he should have retired after the Lesnar rematch at mania

 

[shaz619]

Don't think he will get any higher than IC/US Title division if he does sign up. Drew always had the ingredients that WWE craves. He just fine tuned it and became bigger and more serious during his time away from WWE. Cody on the other hand doesn't really fit the bill of Vince's guy. Unless something drastic happens like DBry did back in 2013-14, can't see Cody going Drew's route.

I think he’d get presented as a main eventer and top guy, but eventually Vince would lose interest, I can see him getting the Christian treatment if am being optimistic. Drew has it all yet they still have failed him putting him in feuds with bums like the Hindu extremists tag team and Jinder Mahal, from beating Lesnar to going to that. This is why Cody needs to make sure he has certain guarantees creatively if he is coming over.

 

[shaz619]

The Rumble was a colossal joke. My last four would have been Lesnar, Omos, Styles and Edge. We all know they want the Reigns/Lesnar undisputed fight but at least be sensible with the rest of your card.

I’d have Styles eliminate Edge to set up their mania match, then Omos gets rid of Edge.

Your final two are Omos and Lesnar, Omos is seriously good for a big guy and should be presented like a star. After a back and forth where he gives Lesnar hell, he gets eliminated after a landmark Rumble.

Omos gets the rub.
Edge/Styles is set up
And they still get Lesnar in the main event

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think he’d get presented as a main eventer and top guy, but eventually Vince would lose interest, I can see him getting the Christian treatment if am being optimistic. Drew has it all yet they still have failed him putting him in feuds with bums like the Hindu extremists tag team and Jinder Mahal, from beating Lesnar to going to that. This is why Cody needs to make sure he has certain guarantees creatively if he is coming over.

Drew himself wanted to work with Jindar cause he is his old buddy. He had stated a month or two before that. He has been booked in feuds with weaker guys in trying to keep him away from the main title cause the reception had started to sour when he kept losing to dull contests with Lashley and an unnecessary match with Big E. He's been booked strong but the feuds have been incredulous. You can see him giving his best all the time.
I still believe he is best suited to beat Roman for Universal Championship.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The Rumble was a colossal joke. My last four would have been Lesnar, Omos, Styles and Edge. We all know they want the Reigns/Lesnar undisputed fight but at least be sensible with the rest of your card.

I’d have Styles eliminate Edge to set up their mania match, then Omos gets rid of Edge.

Your final two are Omos and Lesnar, Omos is seriously good for a big guy and should be presented like a star. After a back and forth where he gives Lesnar hell, he gets eliminated after a landmark Rumble.

Omos gets the rub.
Edge/Styles is set up
And they still get Lesnar in the main event

Last four should include the iron man, the eventual winner, a heel and fourth could be anyone.

If Lesnar is to win the rumble, then he should have had Randy(hometown boy), Edge and Seth/KO.

But ideally, I would have had Seth, Balor, AJ and KO. Would have taken any of these as a winner.

Had Lesnar not been penciled in for his match against Roman at Mania, Drew would have been the ideal contender to dethrone Roman.

 

[shaz619]

Drew himself wanted to work with Jindar cause he is his old buddy. He had stated a month or two before that. He has been booked in feuds with weaker guys in trying to keep him away from the main title cause the reception had started to sour when he kept losing to dull contests with Lashley and an unnecessary match with Big E. He's been booked strong but the feuds have been incredulous. You can see him giving his best all the time.
I still believe he is best suited to beat Roman for Universal Championship.

If that’s what Drew wanted to do then he’s an idiot for lowering himself to that god awful feud, I get your point on cooling off / going in a different direction and coming back stronger but instead his stock has reduced massively from working in the mid-card, I don’t go out of my way to watch a Drew promo or match anymore and that’s a shame because I liked him as the champion, and I agree he could if booked correctly be the one to dethrone Reigns, but first he needs to stay relevant even outside the title picture, Jinder Mahal and Veer Mohan are not going to help that, I’d have liked to see him turn heel, he’d have got away more with the bad creative

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ciampa-Gargano 2,3 and 4 yes, they were overbooked. But I found the first one perfect although the stipulation of Gargano getting his contract back was unnecessary and made the result predictable. Their last man standing match wasn't intended to be their third but Black got injured. The cinematic match was simply not good and unnecessary.

I think with his current persona he can be presented a main-eventer and a top guy. But yeah I don't see him being on Drew's level. Drew despite being wasted since his title run is still probably their biggest long-term prospect along with Reigns. I remember HHH at one point even saying that Drew v Reigns would be the Austin/Rock, Hogan/Flair of the current era. So they clearly think highly of him. But then again booking him in feuds with jobbers and comedy wrestlers doesn't do him any favors.

Drew needs to be put over proper by being the guy who ends Reigns's reign after WrestleMania.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Rumble was a colossal joke. My last four would have been Lesnar, Omos, Styles and Edge. We all know they want the Reigns/Lesnar undisputed fight but at least be sensible with the rest of your card.

I’d have Styles eliminate Edge to set up their mania match, then Omos gets rid of Edge.

Your final two are Omos and Lesnar, Omos is seriously good for a big guy and should be presented like a star. After a back and forth where he gives Lesnar hell, he gets eliminated after a landmark Rumble.

Omos gets the rub.
Edge/Styles is set up
And they still get Lesnar in the main event

Dude. Omos is atrocious. I get what you mean considering his size. But he is still a god awful wrestler. He's on Giant Gonzalez level and worse than Khali.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He definitely has the potential to have a better run now as a main eventer then he did before due to the reasons you state and things he has done outside the company, in a similar vein to Drew Mcyntyre but my doubt is if it will be sustained given how creatively bankrupt they have been. With Jade she could grow in AEW for sure but the depth in womens talent is poor apart from Baker and Thunder Rosa, in the E they’ve done an outstanding job developing the women and there are so many exciting match ups, but you know she could play the long game to before jumping ship and maximising her own value

Oh yeah. I agree with you on that part. Infact Cody in WWE has less of a chance of getting over with Vince than Drew because Drew's look is literally the perfect look for them. But he still has a better chance now than he ever did previously in the WWE.

As for AEW's women's division, look there's no telling that someone from the other side could jump ship to AEW too. I mean I can definitely see Charlotte being one of them. And who knows how long it will take before they drop the ball on someone like Rhea Ripley or Raquel Gonzalez? Becky, Sasha I find hard to believe will leave. But Charlotte is someone who has literally done it all. Sooner or later she might think that I need to do something different. Especially as she gets older. And AEW's work-schedule being so talent-friendly with no house shows is a major motivating factor too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Rumble was a colossal joke. My last four would have been Lesnar, Omos, Styles and Edge. We all know they want the Reigns/Lesnar undisputed fight but at least be sensible with the rest of your card.

I’d have Styles eliminate Edge to set up their mania match, then Omos gets rid of Edge.

Your final two are Omos and Lesnar, Omos is seriously good for a big guy and should be presented like a star. After a back and forth where he gives Lesnar hell, he gets eliminated after a landmark Rumble.

Omos gets the rub.
Edge/Styles is set up
And they still get Lesnar in the main event

Last four should include the iron man, the eventual winner, a heel and fourth could be anyone.

If Lesnar is to win the rumble, then he should have had Randy(hometown boy), Edge and Seth/KO.

But ideally, I would have had Seth, Balor, AJ and KO. Would have taken any of these as a winner.

Had Lesnar not been penciled in for his match against Roman at Mania, Drew would have been the ideal contender to dethrone Roman.

I think one reason why the standard of Rumble has gone down the toilet is probably the absence of Pat Paterson. Pat was basically the guy who came up with the idea of the Rumble and was supposedly great at telling those little stories within the match that we barely even see anymore. While this year's one was very bad, the one from last year was not especially good either. And the commonality in both is Pat not being there.

As for the final four, I would have gone with Lesnar, McIntyre, Rollins and KO. Rollins and KO as the two chickensh*t heels that are working together to eliminate the babyfaces by double teaming them. But just as they think they are in with a chance there is a surprise turn of events and McIntyre and Lesnar end up working together inadvertently as both hit big moves on both guys one by one. Lesnar eliminates one guy and McIntyre eliminates the other. Then you have Brock v McIntyre and they go for a good 4-5 minutes before Lesnar finally eliminates him. That way you signal to the fans that Drew is someone who is in the mix at the top and don't make him look like a complete schlub where Lesnar dumps him out in a matter o of seconds.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But the problem I have with AEW is they keep beefing up their roster without doing much for a lot of their guys. Reilly has done nothing since arriving in AEW. They need to have a few story writers as well that makes sure wrestlers are consistently in storylines. I think Strong might get released soon as he is already approaching 40 and has lately being booked to put over guys. I like LA Knight/Eli Drake. He pretty much fits WWE's bill of a performer. But I would hate for him to get Ziggler'd after a few months of getting called up. Bron is talented but I don't really like him that much. Totally lacks mic skills and is more in the mold of a power grappler that WWE prefers. He isn't really a technical wrestler and doesn't tell good stories in his matches like the good old NXT/WWE guys did/do.

I think Carmelo Hayes is going under the radar for being how good he is and how much he is improving. Think he was already a wrestler in the indies and not a talent hunt from other sports. He shows a lot of good nuances in his matches that older fans find good.

The most underrated guy in NXT is probably Santos Escobar. He never seems to have a bad match despite all the interferences and poor booking. Adjusts himself very well with the more limited wrestlers like Karrion Kross and Xyon Quinn. Think he should become what Andrade was supposed to become once he gets called up.

But yes, I don't follow NXT anymore and it's merely a developmental ever since Prichard took over from Trips.

Problem is that AEW's roster still has alot of dreck. They need to drop alot of guys. I see that as a big problem. O'Reilly has been off TV recently because of the birth of his child. Otherwise I see them building towards an Undisputed Era v The Elite feud which I think could be great. they've reformed reDragon aswell and I'm sure sooner or later we will get to see them against FTR, Proud & Powerful and the other top quality tag teams in AEW.

I dunno if I agree with you man. Breakker has charisma. He's not great on promos because again he is being fed lines by some comedy writer. But if you look at his delivery and the way he talks he's got alot of that Steiner charisma and ofcourse he looks like a million bucks. He looks more like a maineventer now than Roman ever did in that idiotic tactical vest for years.

Regarding your other point, I agree. He's not a technical wrestler. But then neither was Roman for a number of years. Even today he has a limited moveset. But he knows how to work and he knows how to tell a story. Because Breakker already has great pedigree I expect him to 'get it' even earlier before Reigns did.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think with his current persona he can be presented a main-eventer and a top guy. But yeah I don't see him being on Drew's level. Drew despite being wasted since his title run is still probably their biggest long-term prospect along with Reigns. I remember HHH at one point even saying that Drew v Reigns would be the Austin/Rock, Hogan/Flair of the current era. So they clearly think highly of him. But then again booking him in feuds with jobbers and comedy wrestlers doesn't do him any favors.

Drew needs to be put over proper by being the guy who ends Reigns's reign after WrestleMania.

He needs a feud with Seth or Edge. Edge can really put him over big and winning against Edge is still a big deal. While Seth has grown leaps and bounds as the guy to make his opponents looks incredible.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think one reason why the standard of Rumble has gone down the toilet is probably the absence of Pat Paterson. Pat was basically the guy who came up with the idea of the Rumble and was supposedly great at telling those little stories within the match that we barely even see anymore. While this year's one was very bad, the one from last year was not especially good either. And the commonality in both is Pat not being there.

As for the final four, I would have gone with Lesnar, McIntyre, Rollins and KO. Rollins and KO as the two chickensh*t heels that are working together to eliminate the babyfaces by double teaming them. But just as they think they are in with a chance there is a surprise turn of events and McIntyre and Lesnar end up working together inadvertently as both hit big moves on both guys one by one. Lesnar eliminates one guy and McIntyre eliminates the other. Then you have Brock v McIntyre and they go for a good 4-5 minutes before Lesnar finally eliminates him. That way you signal to the fans that Drew is someone who is in the mix at the top and don't make him look like a complete schlub where Lesnar dumps him out in a matter o of seconds.

This year it was said it was lack of Trips and more of Shane O Mac that caused the Rumble to be so bad.
I found 2020 Rumble to be one of the best ever alongside 2001 Rumble. 2020 rumble instantly launched Drew into the stratosphere by electric work and selling done by Lesnar.

Think they should give Michael Hayes more control backstage in terms of matches structure and bring Heyman and HBK to produce matches.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He needs a feud with Seth or Edge. Edge can really put him over big and winning against Edge is still a big deal. While Seth has grown leaps and bounds as the guy to make his opponents looks incredible.

Yeah I agree. Both feuds would be great for him. Honestly for Edge anything would be better than a feud with the Miz. What a way to waste him.

Edge has to feud with KO, Drew, AJ before he retires for good. Would be a waste of his talents if he is not booked into feuds with these guys.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Problem is that AEW's roster still has alot of dreck. They need to drop alot of guys. I see that as a big problem. O'Reilly has been off TV recently because of the birth of his child. Otherwise I see them building towards an Undisputed Era v The Elite feud which I think could be great. they've reformed reDragon aswell and I'm sure sooner or later we will get to see them against FTR, Proud & Powerful and the other top quality tag teams in AEW.

I dunno if I agree with you man. Breakker has charisma. He's not great on promos because again he is being fed lines by some comedy writer. But if you look at his delivery and the way he talks he's got alot of that Steiner charisma and ofcourse he looks like a million bucks. He looks more like a maineventer now than Roman ever did in that idiotic tactical vest for years.

Regarding your other point, I agree. He's not a technical wrestler. But then neither was Roman for a number of years. Even today he has a limited moveset. But he knows how to work and he knows how to tell a story. Because Breakker already has great pedigree I expect him to 'get it' even earlier before Reigns did.

Yes I do agree that Breakker has a lot of charisma and presence. He is undoubtedly going to be a future main eventer on the main roster.

Part of the reason why Roman wasn't able to get over was how awful and forcefully pushed his gimmick was. Everyone backstage said how Roman was a charismatic dude backstage. He had wanted to turn heel for quite long but Vince didn't let him. Once he took a sabbatical during COVID, he convinced Vince that he wanted to return as a heel or he wouldn't come back. Otherwise we would have still been stuck with Believe That crap.

AEW definitely needs to stop playing the good guy by hiring all the released WWE guys and just focus on themselves. Christian was brought in and had a good feud with Omega but then the title he won wasn't even AEW's. Now he is back on the sidelines doing literally nothing. Compare that with Edge, he's been back for 2 years now and has only had 4 feuds till now. 3 of them bangers and the Miz feud was basically a filler feud. Each of Edge's appearance means something or adds something to the storylines whereas in AEW Punk, Christian, Sting, they are all just there every show doing nothing. Punk did commentary for like a month that amounted to nothing. Sting is just there babysitting Darby all the time. AEW needs to maximize the value of their stars by only making them turn up for something meaningful. They need to have CM Punk, Christian, Sting etc to be a big deal when they show up on TV. I think that's a place where Tony's immaturity of wrestling business is exposed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This year it was said it was lack of Trips and more of Shane O Mac that caused the Rumble to be so bad.
I found 2020 Rumble to be one of the best ever alongside 2001 Rumble. 2020 rumble instantly launched Drew into the stratosphere by electric work and selling done by Lesnar.

Think they should give Michael Hayes more control backstage in terms of matches structure and bring Heyman and HBK to produce matches.

2020 Rumble was off the charts. That early 2020 period before COVID hit was possibly the best WWE had been for me since 2016. They were building towards what likely would have been one of the best Manias ever. And then COVID hit and since then everything has been downhill.

As far as booking goes I think its more of a collaborative effort in a match like the Rumble. Shane has had a role in booking in the past too. This time it seems he was trying to do it all himself and that rubbed people the wrong way. Everyone in WWE backstage has strengths and weaknesses which is why they should never be left to their own devices. Heyman is a mark for big move matches. It works with Brock but likely wouldn't for alot of other guys. Pat used to be big on the gaga and Hayes has a a soft spot for that stuff too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If that’s what Drew wanted to do then he’s an idiot for lowering himself to that god awful feud, I get your point on cooling off / going in a different direction and coming back stronger but instead his stock has reduced massively from working in the mid-card, I don’t go out of my way to watch a Drew promo or match anymore and that’s a shame because I liked him as the champion, and I agree he could if booked correctly be the one to dethrone Reigns, but first he needs to stay relevant even outside the title picture, Jinder Mahal and Veer Mohan are not going to help that, I’d have liked to see him turn heel, he’d have got away more with the bad creative

I'd say his stock fell once he was booked in the terrible feud with Lashley and kept losing with MVP's shenanigans. It was a lengthy feud and no one really wanted it to continue beyond Mania but WWE kept milking it. Part of the reason is Lashley just doesn't work good coherent matches.
Even the current feud with Corbin is pathetic.

He is such a strong guy that him losing clean doesn't sit right with anyone and only guys like Lesnar, Roman, Randy can beat him. When they move him away from the main event picture, he can't just go the IC/US title division cause with that, making him look beatable would be really difficult. I think he could go in the tag division with maybe Ricochet after Mania where he could have some good matches.
A heel McIntyre is pretty one dimensional and boring. He loses all his charisma as a heel. As a face, he has a really good positive energy about him which is pretty close to his real life. Not everyone is as good as Bryan to really make the fans boo him as a heel and make his character interesting. Like when Bryan turned heel during his championship run, his character work was so good that I forgot at times that he was the same guy who led the Yes Movement.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes I do agree that Breakker has a lot of charisma and presence. He is undoubtedly going to be a future main eventer on the main roster.

Part of the reason why Roman wasn't able to get over was how awful and forcefully pushed his gimmick was. Everyone backstage said how Roman was a charismatic dude backstage. He had wanted to turn heel for quite long but Vince didn't let him. Once he took a sabbatical during COVID, he convinced Vince that he wanted to return as a heel or he wouldn't come back. Otherwise we would have still been stuck with Believe That crap.

AEW definitely needs to stop playing the good guy by hiring all the released WWE guys and just focus on themselves. Christian was brought in and had a good feud with Omega but then the title he won wasn't even AEW's. Now he is back on the sidelines doing literally nothing. Compare that with Edge, he's been back for 2 years now and has only had 4 feuds till now. 3 of them bangers and the Miz feud was basically a filler feud. Each of Edge's appearance means something or adds something to the storylines whereas in AEW Punk, Christian, Sting, they are all just there every show doing nothing. Punk did commentary for like a month that amounted to nothing. Sting is just there babysitting Darby all the time. AEW needs to maximize the value of their stars by only making them turn up for something meaningful. They need to have CM Punk, Christian, Sting etc to be a big deal when they show up on TV. I think that's a place where Tony's immaturity of wrestling business is exposed.

I think they've done fairly well with Punk and Sting. They're doing some interesting long-term story-telling in Punk's matches. He has had multiple great matches and the current feud with MJF is simply amazing. imo. With Sting they've overdone it for my money because he should not be taking some of the bumps he is taking at 62. I don't care who you are and how fit you are, its dangerous taking such bumps at that age.

On Christian though I agree with you. Despite being protected (he has only one singles loss in AEW and that too against a guy he has beaten once) he has largely been forgotten since that Kenny Omega feud. He should definitely be wrestling more. The guy is an amazing wrestler and one hell of a promo. Why he isn't feuding with guys like Adam Cole, Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara astounds me. Heck at this point I am ready for him to turn heel on Jungle Boy and Botchasaur.

 

[shaz619]

Dude. Omos is atrocious. I get what you mean considering his size. But he is still a god awful wrestler. He's on Giant Gonzalez level and worse than Khali.

What makes you think he is worse then those guys, both Gonzales and Khali could barely walk. Omos shouldn’t be expected to work like Rey Mysterio, am not a fan of big guys who try to be spot monkeys - it doesn’t make you a good worker. I think he’s athletic and agile for his size, Undertaker doesn’t give praise easily and compared him to Andre. I don’t feel we’ve scratched the surface with him and WWE have held back, sometimes less is more but am still feeling they could do so much more with him. Hogan did his thing and was effective at it, they use to say he can’t work either but then go look the archive footage of him in Japan against Muta, it’s the nature of the American market which plays a factor, and in recent times WWE have not done well to build up legit big guys, in a world full of vanilla midgets it’s good to have some versatility in your roster and it also allows technicians to tell great stories in the ring when they work together due to the styles clash

 

[shaz619]

I think one reason why the standard of Rumble has gone down the toilet is probably the absence of Pat Paterson. Pat was basically the guy who came up with the idea of the Rumble and was supposedly great at telling those little stories within the match that we barely even see anymore. While this year's one was very bad, the one from last year was not especially good either. And the commonality in both is Pat not being there.

As for the final four, I would have gone with Lesnar, McIntyre, Rollins and KO. Rollins and KO as the two chickensh*t heels that are working together to eliminate the babyfaces by double teaming them. But just as they think they are in with a chance there is a surprise turn of events and McIntyre and Lesnar end up working together inadvertently as both hit big moves on both guys one by one. Lesnar eliminates one guy and McIntyre eliminates the other. Then you have Brock v McIntyre and they go for a good 4-5 minutes before Lesnar finally eliminates him. That way you signal to the fans that Drew is someone who is in the mix at the top and don't make him look like a complete schlub where Lesnar dumps him out in a matter o of seconds.

They’ve buried Drew’s credibility so badly at the moment that I’ve not even seen him as a guy who could be there, it’s hard to take the guy seriously when he’s booked like a chump. Rollins I can, he still has the backing of creative but he can’t seem to nail his character and keeps changing it, obviously in the ring he can always go. KO is someone they could and should build up as a star, but Hunter’s not around anymore and he should consider AEW if he wants to work at the top of the card again. With no Pat there is no excuse but am confused as to why they let Shane run things, apparently he was let go due to the bad reception and he even butted heads with Lesnar who has a very shrewd mind and view for how things should be done, he learned from the best

 

[shaz619]

I'd say his stock fell once he was booked in the terrible feud with Lashley and kept losing with MVP's shenanigans. It was a lengthy feud and no one really wanted it to continue beyond Mania but WWE kept milking it. Part of the reason is Lashley just doesn't work good coherent matches.
Even the current feud with Corbin is pathetic.

He is such a strong guy that him losing clean doesn't sit right with anyone and only guys like Lesnar, Roman, Randy can beat him. When they move him away from the main event picture, he can't just go the IC/US title division cause with that, making him look beatable would be really difficult. I think he could go in the tag division with maybe Ricochet after Mania where he could have some good matches.
A heel McIntyre is pretty one dimensional and boring. He loses all his charisma as a heel. As a face, he has a really good positive energy about him which is pretty close to his real life. Not everyone is as good as Bryan to really make the fans boo him as a heel and make his character interesting. Like when Bryan turned heel during his championship run, his character work was so good that I forgot at times that he was the same guy who led the Yes Movement.

Drew was cutting fire promos as a heel and getting mad heat, he was booked to be a savage and I enjoyed that run, I watched him live tap out Angle to his own finisher, if was nuts. That run showed WWE he can go and work at the top. Fans are fickle, blame them to because they got behind Lashley who was meant to be the heel but it was a long time coming, am glad he became champion and had their favour

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They’ve buried Drew’s credibility so badly at the moment that I’ve not even seen him as a guy who could be there, it’s hard to take the guy seriously when he’s booked like a chump. Rollins I can, he still has the backing of creative but he can’t seem to nail his character and keeps changing it, obviously in the ring he can always go. KO is someone they could and should build up as a star, but Hunter’s not around anymore and he should consider AEW if he wants to work at the top of the card again. With no Pat there is no excuse but am confused as to why they let Shane run things, apparently he was let go due to the bad reception and he even butted heads with Lesnar who has a very shrewd mind and view for how things should be done, he learned from the best

Biggest problem with WWE is that their idea of making new stars is 50/50 booking. You can't make stars like that. Drew is still better off than most. Even though his credibility has been badly damaged he can still come back because of how he looks, talks and how he is probably perceived within the company. I feel bad for guys like Austin Theory, Damian Priest who have to go through this B.S every week.

Yeah Rollins's recent gimmicks have been cringeworthy. The latest one is bearable but it still feels ridiculously stupid and over the top. Still he is probably one of the best workers in the company so as bad as his character stuff may be, atleast his matches are good.

I was hoping to see KO in AEW but it looks like he will be at WWE for another three years. Which is fine. He probably got one heck of a deal. But yeah once that deal ends he should seriously consider AEW. He is another one of those guys who would like the creative freedom of AEW and the work-schedule. Sami Zayn too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Drew was cutting fire promos as a heel and getting mad heat, he was booked to be a savage and I enjoyed that run, I watched him live tap out Angle to his own finisher, if was nuts. That run showed WWE he can go and work at the top. Fans are fickle, blame them to because they got behind Lashley who was meant to be the heel but it was a long time coming, am glad he became champion and had their favour

What I don't get is why they saddled Drew that stupid freaking sword? Its so phony and off-putting and completely takes away from his aura.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'd say his stock fell once he was booked in the terrible feud with Lashley and kept losing with MVP's shenanigans. It was a lengthy feud and no one really wanted it to continue beyond Mania but WWE kept milking it. Part of the reason is Lashley just doesn't work good coherent matches.
Even the current feud with Corbin is pathetic.

He is such a strong guy that him losing clean doesn't sit right with anyone and only guys like Lesnar, Roman, Randy can beat him. When they move him away from the main event picture, he can't just go the IC/US title division cause with that, making him look beatable would be really difficult. I think he could go in the tag division with maybe Ricochet after Mania where he could have some good matches.
A heel McIntyre is pretty one dimensional and boring. He loses all his charisma as a heel. As a face, he has a really good positive energy about him which is pretty close to his real life. Not everyone is as good as Bryan to really make the fans boo him as a heel and make his character interesting. Like when Bryan turned heel during his championship run, his character work was so good that I forgot at times that he was the same guy who led the Yes Movement.

LMAO that Earth Champion shtick was brilliant. He did probably some of his greatest character work during that time. The build-up to his Mania match with Kofi was beyond brilliant where Kofi was in his position from 2013 while he was now Vince's guy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What makes you think he is worse then those guys, both Gonzales and Khali could barely walk. Omos shouldn’t be expected to work like Rey Mysterio, am not a fan of big guys who try to be spot monkeys - it doesn’t make you a good worker. I think he’s athletic and agile for his size, Undertaker doesn’t give praise easily and compared him to Andre. I don’t feel we’ve scratched the surface with him and WWE have held back, sometimes less is more but am still feeling they could do so much more with him. Hogan did his thing and was effective at it, they use to say he can’t work either but then go look the archive footage of him in Japan against Muta, it’s the nature of the American market which plays a factor, and in recent times WWE have not done well to build up legit big guys, in a world full of vanilla midgets it’s good to have some versatility in your roster and it also allows technicians to tell great stories in the ring when they work together due to the styles clash

I dunno man. May be something that applies to just me but I always roll my eyes when they bring in these uncoordinated giants who can't walk let alone work. I'm not a big fan of spot monkeys either but atleast they are athletic and give you something spectacular from time to time that catches your attention. Bringing giants in who can't do anything is such an 80s thing and Vince sadly is still stuck there. I'm someone who always prefers good wrestling so this side-show stuff is just not for me.

 

[Rajdeep]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - hearing 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin is making in ring return in Wrestlemania.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/wrestling/stone-cold-steve-austin-return-26245649

How do you see this?

I so not want him to come back and ruin his legacy. Attitude era legends cant fit into this PG generation.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - hearing 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin is making in ring return in Wrestlemania.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/wrestling/stone-cold-steve-austin-return-26245649

How do you see this?

I so not want him to come back and ruin his legacy. Attitude era legends cant fit into this PG generation.

It could be something like a squash similar to The Rock vs Eric Rowan at Mania 32? I think. Anything more and am against it.

Apparently they have offered Kevin Owens as his opponent, if they going to do a full on match, no disrespect to KO but is he someone Austin should really get out of bed for? it’s not Cena, Reigns or Lesnar - then again if someone is willing to pay him silly money, then as we’ve sen with Goldberg - you’d be like why not?! the products a joke anyway, lets make a few quid off it.

On a personal note, from a legacy standpoint it’s not necessary and he didn’t come back for a while why now? Shawn regrets the tag match in Saudi even though he looked the part, the others hurt the match and reflected badly overall.

Austin has always been pretty good with creative and has a good awareness for how he should be booked and if he should be on a card at all, so I see him agreeing to this only if they pay him stupid money. Maybe he will try to change the angle or whatever I don’t know, but it’s a tough decision for him because he probably is content with his career but that dough must be tempting

 

[shaz619]

I dunno man. May be something that applies to just me but I always roll my eyes when they bring in these uncoordinated giants who can't walk let alone work. I'm not a big fan of spot monkeys either but atleast they are athletic and give you something spectacular from time to time that catches your attention. Bringing giants in who can't do anything is such an 80s thing and Vince sadly is still stuck there. I'm someone who always prefers good wrestling so this side-show stuff is just not for me.

This guy has potential, he use to be a basketball player to and your conditioning needs to be on point for that. In this era we’ve been fed a certain type of wrestler, it’s the era of the smaller guys and in a weird reversal from the golden age, it’s the big guys who are looked down on, a lot of it’s booking and also perception, especially from the IWC. It’s tougher for the bigger guys to get over with smarks because of how over the smaller divisions are right now, there is always hostility towards them the moment they debut, but wrestling has many forms and styles, this is an area for improvement across all promotions in my view.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] What did you make of the Punk v MJF match? I went out of my way to watch it because of how engaged I’ve been with the feud

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah I agree. Both feuds would be great for him. Honestly for Edge anything would be better than a feud with the Miz. What a way to waste him.

Edge has to feud with KO, Drew, AJ before he retires for good. Would be a waste of his talents if he is not booked into feuds with these guys.

The great thing is that Edge is the only one who is consistently getting 25-30 min matches these days and he's knocking them out of the park. Edge vs AJ would be fire considering their similar wrestling styles. But AJ has recently turned face(and he works better as a face too) and I don't see Edge turning heel soon cause of the reaction he gets. The face face dynamic could hurt the build up of the feud.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think they've done fairly well with Punk and Sting. They're doing some interesting long-term story-telling in Punk's matches. He has had multiple great matches and the current feud with MJF is simply amazing. imo. With Sting they've overdone it for my money because he should not be taking some of the bumps he is taking at 62. I don't care who you are and how fit you are, its dangerous taking such bumps at that age.

On Christian though I agree with you. Despite being protected (he has only one singles loss in AEW and that too against a guy he has beaten once) he has largely been forgotten since that Kenny Omega feud. He should definitely be wrestling more. The guy is an amazing wrestler and one hell of a promo. Why he isn't feuding with guys like Adam Cole, Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara astounds me. Heck at this point I am ready for him to turn heel on Jungle Boy and Botchasaur.

It's cause of the bloated roster. With such a big roster, you simply can't have everyone having matches regularly and it's something they need to do something about.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Drew was cutting fire promos as a heel and getting mad heat, he was booked to be a savage and I enjoyed that run, I watched him live tap out Angle to his own finisher, if was nuts. That run showed WWE he can go and work at the top. Fans are fickle, blame them to because they got behind Lashley who was meant to be the heel but it was a long time coming, am glad he became champion and had their favour

Yes but I personally didn't enjoy his heel stuff. Plus there's already too many monster heels. Roman and Lashley are there already. Having another one would make lack of faces. Kurt's final run was depressing to be honest. Apart from the 3 vs 5 match at TLC, Kurt looked like he was about to collapse all the time.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

LMAO that Earth Champion shtick was brilliant. He did probably some of his greatest character work during that time. The build-up to his Mania match with Kofi was beyond brilliant where Kofi was in his position from 2013 while he was now Vince's guy.

I keep thinking what if Mustafa Ali hadn't gotten injured then. Otherwise it could have been him beating Bryan at Mania.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] What did you make of the Punk v MJF match? I went out of my way to watch it because of how engaged I’ve been with the feud

I thought it was excellent for the story they were trying to tell. Both guys worked their a*ses off and did alot of old school wrestling. And the fact that MJF essentially beat Punk twice in Chicago is something that is pretty amazing. I am not a big fan of interferences, swerves which is why the match is not exactly in my top tier of AEW matches. That said, I think those things were absolutely necessary for the match and the story they were trying to tell.

This and the awesome tag match Mox and Punk had with FTR beautifully sets up a rematch at Revolution. Hopefully inside a steel cage.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I keep thinking what if Mustafa Ali hadn't gotten injured then. Otherwise it could have been him beating Bryan at Mania.

From what I remember the original plan was KO vs Bryan for the WWE Championship. With KO going over.

Find it hard to believe that they would have ever put Mustafa Ali in the main-event picture, let alone have him win the WWE Championship.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The great thing is that Edge is the only one who is consistently getting 25-30 min matches these days and he's knocking them out of the park. Edge vs AJ would be fire considering their similar wrestling styles. But AJ has recently turned face(and he works better as a face too) and I don't see Edge turning heel soon cause of the reaction he gets. The face face dynamic could hurt the build up of the feud.

Yeah that's a problem with Edge-Drew as well. Edge vs KO though should happen this year. Ideally at SummerSlam. Since it likely won't be happening at Mania.

 

[shaz619]

I thought it was excellent for the story they were trying to tell. Both guys worked their a*ses off and did alot of old school wrestling. And the fact that MJF essentially beat Punk twice in Chicago is something that is pretty amazing. I am not a big fan of interferences, swerves which is why the match is not exactly in my top tier of AEW matches. That said, I think those things were absolutely necessary for the match and the story they were trying to tell.

This and the awesome tag match Mox and Punk had with FTR beautifully sets up a rematch at Revolution. Hopefully inside a steel cage.

I felt it was about 10min too long and outside MJF trying the Bret Hart spot on the post it was ok, it was a good learning curve for MJF especially and going these types of matches in the ring will help his ring development. I would have been happy even if it ended with the rear naked choke, that would have been a beautiful finish and good call back to Punk’s first UFC fight. They will do better in the gimmick matches which are to come