The Wrestling Discussion Thread

On paper perhaps that match certainly would have more appeal from the POV of Darth Burius being closer to his prime compared to Taker but AJ Styles given his elite all round in-ring ability is being used in these stellar events the same way Shawn was used towards the end of his run, you'd want your best in-ring performer to on paper go up against other raslers regarded the best in the company, however only Japan protects their limited performers in such a fashion, this is why Styles was trusted with the likes of a past it Jericho and Shane at mania producing excellent performances as did HBK against the likes of Vince and a Ric Flair he carried till the end, it may not seem this way now but these are the sort of scenarios that elevate your legacy beyond comprehension because lets be frank having singles matches against the same opponent with a similar sort of skill set is a cake walk you just show up really. For if we take out the latino stars who are rising and see them all facing off in a 4 way for the US title, then that leaves me Ricochet, Aleicster Black who Vince has always been very high on and Daniel Bryan; I'd say these 3 are the top HHH opponents and you can't go wrong with either of them. I think Adam Cole will drop the belt to Velveteen Dream at Takeover during the WM weekend then move to the main roster, also think it would be a little too premature to do that match now.

Everyone is complaining and I understand it, it's WWE's unfortunate booking and failure; lets be frank, no one compares to Berg's star power and he just looks the part compared to the likes of Rollins, most the new crop look like little children to be honest, only a rare few are able to punch above that due to their unique skills, even with 1 move he is able to do properly the spear; Berg the brand is business for them, it would be a travesty if Reigns does not go over, the match should be under 5 minutes and everyone should pray Berg doesn't gas during his ring walk. Reigns may well deserve that title but the WWE have failed him and I think that they are making a mistake just putting the belt randomly on him, get some damn baby face heat on him; don't make fans cheer for him purely because they don't want the title on Berg because after that he goes back to getting them mixed reactions etc but he isn't exactly John Cena, this is why I feel the Fiend should have been champ well past mania he is clearly the bigger draw

Yes maybe we will get that damn ladder!

Btw I called this before it was even official by PWI purely by adding all his rating points from 2010-2019:

AJ-Styles-PWI-Wrestler-of-the-Decade-1093-1.jpg


:bow:

All the haters right now who support creeps in All Elite Raslin and New Japan Blow Up Dolls:

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6 Star match for GOATmega, GOATs doing it in 6s.

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Another awful performance from the so called wrestler of the decade.

Just getting sad. Man gets apathy from fans.

Would never see that from Okada or Omega but those two are 200000x better than AJ ever was.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] if AJ had any respect he would hand over that award to Okada after tonight's pathetic performance.

Killed another crowd with his stinker of a match. Dude has bombed so many big matches, got to be catching up to HHH in the worst big match performers of all time.

Expect to add Taker to the list. I'll be shocked if that gets more than 3*.

Admittedly it is sad to see him fall this far, but he brought it on himself. Should have retired when he knew he was washed.
 
Who do you think Triple H is going to face this year? I wanted AJ Styles vs HHH previously but now it's looking like fingers crossed hopefully we'll be getting Styles vs Taker.

Personally I would love to see Triple H vs Adam Cole that would be a great match and great story.

As for Reigns vs Goldberg that's just more meant to be Roman's moment and his payoff for all the hard work he's put in since returning from cancer. No one deserves to win that title more than him.

Would love to see a ladder match open the show man they did it for Mania 31 and 32 for 33 it didn't open the show it was like the 2nd or 3rd match with the Hardyz return and man those ladder matches at Mania are always awesome. They haven't done it since 33 though so really hoping we get one this year!

On paper perhaps that match certainly would have more appeal from the POV of Darth Burius being closer to his prime compared to Taker but AJ Styles given his elite all round in-ring ability is being used in these stellar events the same way Shawn was used towards the end of his run, you'd want your best in-ring performer to on paper go up against other raslers regarded the best in the company, however only Japan protects their limited performers in such a fashion, this is why Styles was trusted with the likes of a past it Jericho and Shane at mania producing excellent performances as did HBK against the likes of Vince and a Ric Flair he carried till the end, it may not seem this way now but these are the sort of scenarios that elevate your legacy beyond comprehension because lets be frank having singles matches against the same opponent with a similar sort of skill set is a cake walk you just show up really. For if we take out the latino stars who are rising and see them all facing off in a 4 way for the US title, then that leaves me Ricochet, Aleicster Black who Vince has always been very high on and Daniel Bryan; I'd say these 3 are the top HHH opponents and you can't go wrong with either of them. I think Adam Cole will drop the belt to Velveteen Dream at Takeover during the WM weekend then move to the main roster, also think it would be a little too premature to do that match now.

Everyone is complaining and I understand it, it's WWE's unfortunate booking and failure; lets be frank, no one compares to Berg's star power and he just looks the part compared to the likes of Rollins, most the new crop look like little children to be honest, only a rare few are able to punch above that due to their unique skills, even with 1 move he is able to do properly the spear; Berg the brand is business for them, it would be a travesty if Reigns does not go over, the match should be under 5 minutes and everyone should pray Berg doesn't gas during his ring walk. Reigns may well deserve that title but the WWE have failed him and I think that they are making a mistake just putting the belt randomly on him, get some damn baby face heat on him; don't make fans cheer for him purely because they don't want the title on Berg because after that he goes back to getting them mixed reactions etc but he isn't exactly John Cena, this is why I feel the Fiend should have been champ well past mania he is clearly the bigger draw

Yes maybe we will get that damn ladder!

Btw I called this before it was even official by PWI purely by adding all his rating points from 2010-2019:

AJ-Styles-PWI-Wrestler-of-the-Decade-1093-1.jpg


:bow:

All the haters right now who support creeps in All Elite Raslin and New Japan Blow Up Dolls:

messi.jpg

Hahaha check out his sore haters throwing a tantrum :))) Official PWI Wrestler of the Decade 2010-2019!! officially recognised as a GOAT bayyybyyy! :afridi
 
Hahaha check out his sore haters throwing a tantrum :))) Official PWI Wrestler of the Decade 2010-2019!! officially recognised as a GOAT bayyybyyy! :afridi
Social media is calling him washed and no longer one of the best wrestlers in the world lol.

His big match performances might actually be worse than Hunter's, that takes some feat.

Mr. WM lmao, he's only bombed at WM.

Kenny and Okada have had ALL TIME CLASSICS at WK, here AJ has bombed at 4/5 the WMs he's performed at.
 
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You know you're washed or doing a bad job when the fans do not give a damn about what you do in the ring.

That has been a common theme of AJ's matches for the past 2-3 years [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Washed man Washed man.
 
I'm going to lmao seeing two old washed men attempt to put on a good match at WM, it's going to be a sad sight for fans in attendance. They'll probably think both need to retire by the end of it.

Another heatless dud match coming for Washed man Washed man.
 
Another awful performance from the so called wrestler of the decade.

Just getting sad. Man gets apathy from fans.

Would never see that from Okada or Omega but those two are 200000x better than AJ ever was.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] if AJ had any respect he would hand over that award to Okada after tonight's pathetic performance.

Killed another crowd with his stinker of a match. Dude has bombed so many big matches, got to be catching up to HHH in the worst big match performers of all time.

Expect to add Taker to the list. I'll be shocked if that gets more than 3*.

Admittedly it is sad to see him fall this far, but he brought it on himself. Should have retired when he knew he was washed.

You know you're washed or doing a bad job when the fans do not give a damn about what you do in the ring.

That has been a common theme of AJ's matches for the past 2-3 years [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Washed man Washed man.

I'm going to lmao seeing two old washed men attempt to put on a good match at WM, it's going to be a sad sight for fans in attendance. They'll probably think both need to retire by the end of it.

Another heatless dud match coming for Washed man Washed man.

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:)))

#Triggered
 
From 2010 through to 2019, never has there been a star more consistent across a variety of promotions in every single continent; from his in-ring performances to incarnations from heel to face; AJ Styles is the second coming of the greats before him and the best of his era, the prestige of the PWI awarding him the richest prize in our industry is most fitting :bow: :bow: [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] @Kaleem what a happy feeling watching this genius from his days in NWA Wildside all the way to having another peak in WWE so late in his career, he truly is a genius and deserves to be mentioned alongside HBK and Ric Flair as the greatest in-ring performers in history, has made my year tearing up! WRESTLER OF THE DECADE!!!!
 
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I genuinely think AJ is washed. This isn't me trying to bug you, the guy has not had a great match in over a year and the crowd does not react to his matches. He's not that over anymore and his matches are met with apathy, that's not trolling/baiting that's just fact.
 
I genuinely think AJ is washed. This isn't me trying to bug you, the guy has not had a great match in over a year and the crowd does not react to his matches. He's not that over anymore and his matches are met with apathy, that's not trolling/baiting that's just fact.

Thanks mate :yk3

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On topic with regards to decade dominance and decade awards, am just letting you know how it is:

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The richest prize in the industry :afridi
 
Shaz, I couldn't care less about that award.

If AJ had any pride he would hand that over to Okada or Omega based on the miserable last 2-3 years he's had.
 
Washed man vs Dead man at WM.

First ever -6* match between two past their prime geezers who should have retired years ago.

AJ going for the hattrick of dud WM matches. Building quite the legacy for himself in big matches.

GOAT lmao.
 
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Lets get this straight, assuming AJ is washed based on the observer and social media :))) we should ignore him being awarded Wrestler of the Decade :))) pure hate from a bunch of hipster dweebs, but he has gone down in his history as the greatest :bow:
 
Lets get this straight, assuming AJ is washed based on the observer and social media :))) we should ignore him being awarded Wrestler of the Decade :))) pure hate from a bunch of hipster dweebs, but he has gone down in his history as the greatest :bow:
AJ is washed.

Whether you want to live in denial isn't going to make it any less true.

You just need to watch his matches and how dead the crowds are. How often was Shawn greeted with apathy for his matches?
 
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2010 - 2019 rated as the greatest by PWI, gone down as the best of his era, every rasler will get washed at some point, but right now AJ is being washed in the GLORY of his PWI recognition for his decade long dominance as the best in-ring performer of his era :bow:
 
Old and Broken down. AJ is one of my all time favorite but yeah, I think age has caught up with him. I don't blame him though, the guy has had helacious career full of some crazy bumps. I'm honestly surprised he can still go at the level he does currently.

The last great AJ Styles match in my eyes is Styles vs Cena from The Royal Rumble in 2017

This is an AJ fan saying his last great match was over THREE YEARS ago.
 
All the haters can say what they want the PWI have recognised AJ as the WRESTLER OF THE DECADE, ya"ll in denial was hoping dinky and blow up doll specialist would win it :)))
 
Doesn't change he is the WRESTLER OF THE DECADE
lol and?

PWI doesn't mean anything.

Okada is going to be crowned WON Wrestler of the Decade and that is far more prestigious.

PWI is kayfabed not based on actual work.
 
He learned some valuable lessons from Kevin Nash in TNA it seems.

Another saying he's phoning it in.

What you reckon Shaz? He phoning it in or is he done?
 
lol and?

PWI doesn't mean anything.

Okada is going to be crowned WON Wrestler of the Decade and that is far more prestigious.

PWI is kayfabed not based on actual work.

Okada and Kenny were both voted PWI and you did a bhangra over that you were hoping lady boy would win the PWI wrestler of the decade and WON is just metlzers opinion, PWI is the crown jewel I've always said that so AJ is the best of his era and that's just a fact, if you wana feel he is washed now etc that's cool but he is the best of his era based on the most prestigious award of our industry, sorry mate :)))
 
Shaz what's your reaction going to be when AJ puts on another WM stinker with Taker?

His performances at WM have been appalling for a wrestler of his level. I died of laughter when he called himself Mr. Wrestlemania, he's like the anti WM and puts on his worst performances there.

Stage seems to be too big for him.
 
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Shaz what's your reaction going to be when AJ puts on another WM stinker with Taker?

I don't have that kinda attitude towards in-ring wrestling, guys who jerk to kenny, cassidy and okada can't really talk either. But the fact is Styles is the best of his generation, to even be able to share a ring with Taker and being asked to work with him by the great man himself has already elevating his legacy beyond what you or I can actually comprehend
 
I don't have that kinda attitude towards in-ring wrestling, guys who jerk to kenny, cassidy and okada can't really talk either. But the fact is Styles is the best of his generation, to even be able to share a ring with Taker and being asked to work with him by the great man himself has already elevating his legacy beyond what you or I can actually comprehend
He's going to look amazing putting on a 15 min stinker with a guy who should have retired 5 years ago.
 
The big stage is for the GOATs.

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Okada I respect but Jesus Christ, everything I said about Kenny is there for all to see in NA territory. I gave AEW a chance and they put me off it, Cody is smart enough to position himself as the biggest star in a small pond, but after this big botch mania no main stream US channel will give raslin a chance again so the WWE monopoly will continue.
 
Greatest trilogy in the history of our sport.

They will write books and make movies of this.

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He's going to look amazing putting on a 15 min stinker with a guy who should have retired 5 years ago.

He will still be recognised as the greatest of his era regardless, you and a couple of other haters can have that negative view before hand though; pathetic low lives, especially from a guy who use to pose as an AJ fan
 
For real its sad to see AJ like this, he should have stuck to his word and retired when he knew he couldn't hang anymore. He might end up like Taker and hurt his legacy by hanging on far too long.

It's sad to see this pathetic Randy Orton tribute act he has going on.
 
Greatest trilogy in the history of our sport.

They will write books and make movies of this.

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Okada is washed, Kenny is a jobber and always has been. Both are one hit one dimensional wonders but its sad Okada is belittled by being paired with that peadofile. Neither will ever win this though:

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Aman so triggered, genuinely though Okada would win :))) so much hate for this prestigious award being given to the GOAT
 
Everyone has this never ending faith with AJ when he matches up with someone young and talented in the ring.

But he never delivers, I expect him to produce dud after dud.

The man is clearly past it. Waiting for more people to wake up to this, it seems many are.

Expecting him to carry Taker to a servicable match is a huge stretch considering he needs carrying himself to a decent these days.

Forget having a great match, that seems impossible. It's been years since he had a real MOTYC.

Genuinely getting up there with HHH as the biggest big match bust of all time.

I can't stand Bryan and I'll say he's a lot better than AJ right now and a far better big match performer.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] how does it feel to know the world will know this AJ as AJ Styles.

This mediocre wrestler who isn't even top 30 in the WWE and does nothing but underwhelm and bomb in matches.

Wouldn't surprise me if Vince put him in the pre show given how unover he is these days and how dead his matches are.
 
Everyone has this never ending faith with AJ when he matches up with someone young and talented in the ring.

But he never delivers, I expect him to produce dud after dud.

The man is clearly past it. Waiting for more people to wake up to this, it seems many are.

Expecting him to carry Taker to a servicable match is a huge stretch considering he needs carrying himself to a decent these days.

Forget having a great match, that seems impossible. It's been years since he had a real MOTYC.

Genuinely getting up there with HHH as the biggest big match bust of all time.

I can't stand Bryan and I'll say he's a lot better than AJ right now and a far better big match performer.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] how does it feel to know the world will know this AJ as AJ Styles.

This mediocre wrestler who isn't even top 30 in the WWE and does nothing but underwhelm and bomb in matches.

Wouldn't surprise me if Vince put him in the pre show given how unover he is these days and how dead his matches are.

Still crying :)))
 
Jericho - dud
Shane - good match
Nakamura - big time dud
Orton - dud
Taker - super dud
 
Jericho - dud
Shane - good match
Nakamura - big time dud
Orton - dud
Taker - super dud

Quite the list of Ls.

Imagine if Okada or Omega's best match at WK was against Gedo or a young lion lmao.
 
It sure does

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In the early to mid 90s, Shawn Michaels was eulogised in the Wrestling Observer by one of his biggest fans in Dave Meltzer, coming out of the epic Ladder rematch at SummerSlam in 1995 with Razor Ramon he wrote "For the 3rd time in 1995, Shawn stole the show and removed any doubt that he is the best wrestler in the US; he is the Ric Flair of the 90s and the most talented American worker of all time"

What is interesting to note is that in early 1995 Shawn was never considered as a pure baby face by Vince however Pat Patterson was one of his biggest advocates and also Bruce; however they stopped raising this with Vince when he said Shawn will never be champion! this was during a time when the company was under the pump with Diesel as champion, the creative / producers all saw $$$ in Shawn but Vince just didn't accept him as a face and also wasn't sold because of his size, creative then decided we just need to try and get him out there in that top spot because the crowd are so behind him, this would lead to the WM 11 world title match with Diesel who wasn't exactly the best worker in the world; Shawn put on an epic performance, selling extremely well for Big Daddy and displaying his unique athleticism; the crowd was split down the middle and couldn't help but pop for Shawn at that point because his in-ring pedigree was hard to not like. It's also worth pointing out in the Observer once again Dave couldn't praise the match enough and especially Shawn's performance as that match wasn't expected to be any where near as good as it was.

Vince that same night would tag along with Pat and Bruce on the way home and he would be extremely livid suggesting that you know what guys! we gotta make Shawn a face and potentially even a champion! am I the only one who is seeing this :)) We tend to compare Styles and Shawn often in different ways but in terms of how Vince was sold on the two, the two stories actually merge; when Styles joined WWE he wasn't expected to be more then an upper mid carder, but when he fought for the world title in a losing effort first time much like Shawn, he put on a stellar performance; yes Roman was a much better worker then Diesel but it was still a great match and at that time Roman had so much heat and was still improving, Styles did extremely well to sell him as a world champion and in doing so that performance caught Vince's attention in a massive way, I remember posting in this thread that Styles would no doubt win the championship soon after and that would follow.

Going back to 1995, Vince also had Sid as Shawn's body guard, there were concerns about the perception of his size; to negate that and put him in a world title match / stack the odds against Diesel that was reasoning behind the move. But after Shawn's performance, the two would break up; his face turn would be in effect immediately after the WM 11 performance with Sid turning on HBK and thus would begun a main-event level push, Shawn would win the IC title from Jeff Jarett in another classic and technical masterpiece before clashing with Razor at SummerSlam; this match was very interesting, after the incredible effort at WM 10 there were complaints from regulatory bodies and sponsors that a ladder can't be used offensively and it's a bad influence on the children with it being a house hold item, Vince would then decide prior to the match that nor Shawn or Razor can use the Ladder to hit the other! I actually didn't know this until now! but having watched the match it was elevated even further because the two displayed incredible in-ring psychology and innovated further to come up with spots which the US audience had never seen before, I loved the pace and how Razor worked the leg and their were some great call back spots from the WM 10 match as well.

Towards the final 1/4 of the 1995 the year ended on a rather sour note for HBK, he was assaulted by 3 marines allegedly in a local bar; at this point Sean and Davey who were a part of the other roster half on tour for some house shows felt it would be fitting to dump his carcass in front of Chris Candido's door (the bf of sunny); Chris and sunny find him and call the ambulance, when he wakes up sunny is next to him in the hospital bed and Vince is obviously first and foremost concerned for Shawn's safety but felt he should not have put himself in that position, it was a brutal with blood coming from his eyes and ears. The extent of what happened is unknown but a marine was charged and it was believed there were others involved in the attack, WWE wouldn't press charges due to the publicity the story would get and Dave covered it stating also the heels/faces were out together it would have been a bad look that the guys were having a drink when they were meant to be feuding, that would have been covered as there were reports that Davey/Sean were attempting to save HBK from the attackers but were too intoxicated themselves. The IC title would be forfeited and HBK would make his return in November, also working the SS PPV that month.

With Shawn's recent attack he suffered, having to drop the IC title and then on his return doing an interview with JR in a first where they did a bit of a worked shoot weaving the reality of stuff which had happened outside the ring into current story-lines; the idea was to get more baby face sympathy for HBK and this led to one of the most memorable angles of the year; in a match with Owen Hart on RAW after the SS PPV, a few minutes after Hart had hit HBK with an enguzuri to the back of the head, Shawn collapses and doesn't get back up; Vince then gets off his headset (colour commentary run) then rushes to the ring in order to check on Shawn, he had never ever done this before and according to HBK he had argued that they should go to dead air at this point because if Vince and JR kept talking, it becomes clear that this is an angle and eventually Vince did go for the idea. Bruce Prichard had originally come up with the angle, they wanted to tie the attacks Shawn suffered and subsequent concussion to the kick he suffered to the head by Owen; the story would go that he had suffered another concussion despite looking spectacular in the match / healthy, it was easy to sell considering the impact of post concussion syndromes which he would already have been suffering in theory after the attacks / not 100% recovered., this was emphasised further because there was a delayed reaction to the kick HBK suffered, in the match itself after taking it he would clothesline Owen over the top rope and then fire up before collapsing suddenly; you can just imagine the shock and horror at the time :)) [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] Vince would come into the ring, they would then go to dead air; commentary silent, medics in the ring with the Oxygen, pin drop silence in the arena, camera shots on people in the crowd crying and all; real life emotion.

On the heels of the post match situation, HBK was actually submitted to a Hospital and they had to sign release papers to get him out of there; to keep the kayfabe in tact Shawn reportedly said to the doctors he was feeling groggy and described concussion like symptoms, there was so much concern at the time that fans were calling the Hospital for a status on his health and wanted to know how their hero was doing, it wasn't easy to convince Vince and all involved to take the plunge but I personally feel like this story was a big landmark for the company at the time and taking a little bit of a step into uncharted waters when it came to a more edgy / reality based narrative; this would then be seen a bit more frequently in the financially acclaimed era which would follow for the WWF.

Shawn wouldn't wrestle again in 1995, after teasing retirement he would return at the Royal Rumble to a mega pop and win it to begin his journey towards world championship status; the angle worked like a charm to get HBK over even further and after winning the RR earlier in 1995, you need to create a compelling narrative for him to win again because you've decided he is going to be the guy who will carry the company forward as the world champion / flag bearer through 96 and beyond. It was a pivotal year for HBK because while creative were behind him Vince was not sold, but in this year he showed how capable he is as a baby face and how consistent he can be as an in-ring performer day in day out against a variety of opposition.

As far as raslin "journalism" is concerned, there probably wasn't a bigger fan of HBK's then Meltzer especially in the 90s, the 5* awards and critically acclaimed matches against big dudes he shouldn't have been able to perform so well again which Metlzer enjoyed highly, from the effort with Diesel / Jarret to the epic confrontation with Razor he was acclaimed heavily in the Observer and as I had mentioned earlier; a direct quote from Dave "He is the Ric Flair of the 90s" that was massive praise [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]. In the end Meltzer is only one man and his subjective ratings are just an opinion; more over beyond writing he has no experience in the business, a good historian no doubt but beyond that he's just a fan, what turned the tide for him when it came to Shawn ? is the big question, because as far as his in-ring work is concerned he has gone out of his way to put him over in a big way. You read some of his tweets now and he is quick to put him down over high spot specialists and inferior performers with a vastly one dimensional resume; there is talk that he is playing some sort of heel character to entice more WON subscribers and while that is true there is a lot more to it then that.

What people tend to forget is, during the mid to late 90s; Dave's biggest insider was none other then Bret Hart himself, now I am a fan of the Montreal Screwjob coverage from Dave in the late 90s it was truly world class but it is no secret that his relationship with Bret was very personal, he has repeatedly said on record he considers Bret to be a personal friend. And don't get me wrong, Shawn was an absolutely big douche-bag in the 90s and deserves every criticism as far as his personality is concerned at the time but in the ring he was amazing, Dave in the coming years and much after that would begin to bury Shawn not just as a personality but as an in-ring performer and much of it was primarily due to his relationship with Bret. To test his theory that the modern performers today and those specifically in Japan are light years ahead of the greats of the past, I challenge anyone to contact him and ask him if Bret is an inferior performer compared to the likes of Ospreay and Kenny among others in Japan etc he will deflect no doubt but it would be much easier for him to bury Shawn when compared to those performers, the talked about match which broke his scale in Okada/Omega was raised with him myself, I said to him well Dave; Bret didn't need to hit those triple moonsaults / excessive high spots to get over and he never had to kill himself or his opponent either in doing so, Dave's response was "not everyone is Bret". As far as his ratings, thoughts on Shawn and objectivity are concerned; that's all you need to know, but like I said it's just one mans opinion. As far as pundits are concerned it's safe to say Jim Cornette who was also a part of creative in the 90s probably despises HBK as much as anybody else, he wishes he screwed HBK over Bret in 97! but I value his insight a lot more when it comes to in-ring prowess, after all he came up with the 5* scale and his resume speaks for itself.

Just some interesting wrestling history I thought I would share.

Wow, what a brilliantly written post, so much insight here. I've seen that match several times and I had no idea that they weren't allowed to use the ladders as a weapon.

This has to be the Time Pass POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

During the reign of terror reign, the WWE was in a huge hangover period from the post attitude era and the invasion debacle. It was a downhill period that isn't often talked about. They tried to fix things early by getting Flair in with the co-owner thing. That failed after 2 months. Then they got Hogan and NWO back but that turned out to be temporary. Rock and Austin were gone full-time. They had a huge pool of midcard guys so they split up the brands without enough top main event babyfaces. They tried another shock and brought in Bischoff and then the surprise wore off and they were left with nothing. It was a period where they had ZERO face stars that could be credible champions. They needed to make new stars in that period. Sure they made brock lesnar but he was a heel at the time and always was suited as a heel. Smackdown had to rely on the six to put on great matches and brock being a dominant champion to be watchable. RAW had a less talented roster overall and with only HBK as the main face and HHH as the credible heel. HBK vs HHH was triggered way too early and that left 2003 completely with no direction and HHH had to carry the brand as champion and its never good for a heel to carry the show for such a long time. So I don't know if he buried everyone during the reign, I think it was just a transition period and HHH was the safe option. The only ones that truly suffered were Booker T who obviously should have won at WM19 instead of being made a fool of. Also, RVD was a huge star in waiting but they fed him to HHH as the first challenger and killed his momentum, he would have been huge if they waited longer. HHH should have had his 1st title match against Flair at Unforgiven so he could hold onto the title without hurting anybodys push. And lastly Jericho suffered a lot because he was the second top heel doing some of his best work left with nothing on the show. After the HBK match, he should have been put on Smackdown where he could have been the main event heel for the rest of 2003 and 2004 and get another title run. Seems like he was wasted on RAW from 2002-2005.

These are the debates this thread is for, mods clean out all the spam and I encourage others to put the idiots on ignore especially those that can't accept that AJ is the best of his era and won the prestigious Wrestler of the Decade award mA
 
I have to give credit to Daniel Bryan, he's actually helped some young talents like Cole, Buddy, Gulak and Ali get over. On Raw they have washed wrestlers go over the young talent there who get absolutely nothing from forgettable matches.
 
From 2010 through to 2019, never has there been a star more consistent across a variety of promotions in every single continent; from his in-ring performances to incarnations from heel to face; AJ Styles is the second coming of the greats before him and the best of his era, the prestige of the PWI awarding him the richest prize in our industry is most fitting :bow: :bow: [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] @Kaleem what a happy feeling watching this genius from his days in NWA Wildside all the way to having another peak in WWE so late in his career, he truly is a genius and deserves to be mentioned alongside HBK and Ric Flair as the greatest in-ring performers in history, has made my year tearing up! WRESTLER OF THE DECADE!!!!

Honestly the greatest professional wrestler in the world from 2005-2019 without a shadow of a doubt in my mind. Biggest AJ fan out here so I was super excited for him when he won! Truly deserved it.
 
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Elimination chamber was pretty solid, Bryan vs Gulak, Andrade vs. Humberto Carrillo for the US title, Tag Team Elimination, Black vs AJ, where all very solid matches. Those were not only the first 4 matches of the show but the 4 best matches of the night as well. I thoroughly enjoyed these matches.
 
Honestly the greatest professional wrestler in the world from 2005-2019 without a shadow of a doubt in my mind. Biggest AJ fan out here so I was super excited for him when he won! Truly deserved it.

I totally agree with you mate, the fact that anyone would dare deny that recognition or go off on a tangent just shows they have some mental issues, no wonder nobody likes to have a discussion with these individuals the worst era for the smarks which are more like hipsters. To dominate the way he has is crazy really across continents in leading promotions all around the world, he fought a variety of opponents and in a variety of match types with a very intense schedule as well, to dominate and innovate, develop your persona to like that with the consistency he has is just insane, you don't easily put someone up their with HBK and Flair who are like the bar so am glad he has been crowned by the most prestigious publication in our industry.

Will be watching Elimination Chamber tonight, on paper didn't look great but I have heard it was very solid
 
As a tribute to AJ Styles winning the Wrestler of the Decade, I thought I'd make a list of my favorite matches of his:

10. AJ Styles vs Jerry Lynn vs Low Ki 2002 - NWA TNA #8 2002

9. AJ Styles vs Roman Reigns - WWE Extreme Rules 2016

8. AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels – TNA Against All Odds 2005

7. AJ Styles vs Brock Lesnar - Survivor Series 2017

6. AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams – TNA Final Resolution 2005

5. AJ Styles vs Kazuchika Okada – NJPW Dominion 7.5 2015

4. AJ Styles vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW G1 Climax 2014

3. AJ Styles vs John Cena - Royal Rumble 2017

2. AJ Styles vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 10

1. AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe - TNA Unbreakable 2005


It's too early in the morning and I'm a bit lazy to detail this further. I'll do that later and also add a plethora of other great AJ matches that I've missed as honorable mentions.
 
I totally agree with you mate, the fact that anyone would dare deny that recognition or go off on a tangent just shows they have some mental issues, no wonder nobody likes to have a discussion with these individuals the worst era for the smarks which are more like hipsters. To dominate the way he has is crazy really across continents in leading promotions all around the world, he fought a variety of opponents and in a variety of match types with a very intense schedule as well, to dominate and innovate, develop your persona to like that with the consistency he has is just insane, you don't easily put someone up their with HBK and Flair who are like the bar so am glad he has been crowned by the most prestigious publication in our industry.

Will be watching Elimination Chamber tonight, on paper didn't look great but I have heard it was very solid

Yeah I enjoyed it, barring the whole Seth Rollins thing which I'm not really a huge fan of that whole Monday night messiah thing so other than that match which i skipped to make some food I enjoyed the rest of the show.
 
Upon thinking about it you could actually do 3 separate lists for AJ, 10 TNA matches, 10 NJPW matches, and 10 WWE matches. :))

I personally fell in love with AJ watching him in TNA so I rate those matches higher than most I loved the high flying AJ. It wasn't even just that he was a high flyer because there are so many guys nowadays that can do those moves, however it was the way in which AJ combined that high flying ability, along with proper technical wrestling and in ring work that made him standout to me. 2005-2010 AJ was honestly the most fun I have ever had watching a wrestler. In NJPW and WWE he adopted that slower pace which just took him to the next level, along with guys like Flair and HBK.
 
As a tribute to AJ Styles winning the Wrestler of the Decade, I thought I'd make a list of my favorite matches of his:

10. AJ Styles vs Jerry Lynn vs Low Ki 2002 - NWA TNA #8 2002

9. AJ Styles vs Roman Reigns - WWE Extreme Rules 2016

8. AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels – TNA Against All Odds 2005

7. AJ Styles vs Brock Lesnar - Survivor Series 2017

6. AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams – TNA Final Resolution 2005

5. AJ Styles vs Kazuchika Okada – NJPW Dominion 7.5 2015

4. AJ Styles vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW G1 Climax 2014

3. AJ Styles vs John Cena - Royal Rumble 2017

2. AJ Styles vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 10

1. AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe - TNA Unbreakable 2005


It's too early in the morning and I'm a bit lazy to detail this further. I'll do that later and also add a plethora of other great AJ matches that I've missed as honorable mentions.

That's one hell of a list to be fair, the only notable omission I'd say is the incredible series with Angle you had AJ and Angle both at their peak absolutely killing it. Angle actually went out of his way to say he may as well have been the best he has ever fought, that's something when you look at the names Angle has wrestled and to me HBK/Angle is still the greatest match I've ever seen in my life time so that's just a scary compliment from Angle. AJ also had some terrific matches with likes of Joe and Punk during his run as the pure champion in ROH and haha look forward to them matches, even in the morning you just plucked those out just shows you the tremendous run he had
 
Yeah I enjoyed it, barring the whole Seth Rollins thing which I'm not really a huge fan of that whole Monday night messiah thing so other than that match which i skipped to make some food I enjoyed the rest of the show.

And here's the thing at least he has a gimmick finally after a while aha Seth "Friggin" Rollins didn't count :)) it's weird I always thought he would be most suited as a face but he plays a bad guy decently
 
And here's the thing at least he has a gimmick finally after a while aha Seth "Friggin" Rollins didn't count :)) it's weird I always thought he would be most suited as a face but he plays a bad guy decently

I really enjoyed Seth Rollins in the shield and then his first heel run before getting injured with the authority. Obviously everything about the Shield was just exceptional and then I also think the cowardly heel fit Seth perfectly.
 
That's one hell of a list to be fair, the only notable omission I'd say is the incredible series with Angle you had AJ and Angle both at their peak absolutely killing it. Angle actually went out of his way to say he may as well have been the best he has ever fought, that's something when you look at the names Angle has wrestled and to me HBK/Angle is still the greatest match I've ever seen in my life time so that's just a scary compliment from Angle. AJ also had some terrific matches with likes of Joe and Punk during his run as the pure champion in ROH and haha look forward to them matches, even in the morning you just plucked those out just shows you the tremendous run he had

Oh yeah you see it was early in the morning I totally forgot about Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles at Hard Justice in 2008 also not a one on one match but Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Sting vs Matt Morgan vs Hernandez at No Surrender 2009, was not only a pivotal moment in AJ's career but TNA history, as it saw Kurt Angle put over AJ Styles for the TNA Heavyweight championship. The match was was great to the 5 guys to each other to hell and back and we saw some fantastic wrestling from each individual involved. Also I was thinking about putting in AJ vs Samoa Joe at Turning Point 2005 in there instead of AJ vs Daniels but I just enjoyed the AJ Daniels match so much I had to put it in hence why AJ/Joe just fell out. The big match that I really felt disappointed having to leave out because it would make the top 5 list of many other wrestlers greatest matches of all time is AJ Styles vs Daniel Bryan at TLC in 2018 that was such a great and in my opinion underrated match. That match was a straight up classic and if guys like Omega, or Okada had that same match it would have won Match of the Year and broke the ratings system with 7 stars lmao. If I come to think about it I could put it at 5 and drop every other match back I can't believe I forgot about that match. Instant Classic. It would feel weird not having #10 as what it is right now though, because that's match that introduced AJ to a lot of people. So from a significance standpoint seems rough not leaving it in there. Fact is AJ has had too many great matches a top 10 list does not do him justice the best you can do is make a top 10 "favorites" list.
 
Congrats to Jericho on winning the Lou Thesz/Ric Flair award, unlike PWI who named Cole their wrestler of the year WON readers got this right.
 
Oh yeah you see it was early in the morning I totally forgot about Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles at Hard Justice in 2008 also not a one on one match but Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Sting vs Matt Morgan vs Hernandez at No Surrender 2009, was not only a pivotal moment in AJ's career but TNA history, as it saw Kurt Angle put over AJ Styles for the TNA Heavyweight championship. The match was was great to the 5 guys to each other to hell and back and we saw some fantastic wrestling from each individual involved. Also I was thinking about putting in AJ vs Samoa Joe at Turning Point 2005 in there instead of AJ vs Daniels but I just enjoyed the AJ Daniels match so much I had to put it in hence why AJ/Joe just fell out. The big match that I really felt disappointed having to leave out because it would make the top 5 list of many other wrestlers greatest matches of all time is AJ Styles vs Daniel Bryan at TLC in 2018 that was such a great and in my opinion underrated match. That match was a straight up classic and if guys like Omega, or Okada had that same match it would have won Match of the Year and broke the ratings system with 7 stars lmao. If I come to think about it I could put it at 5 and drop every other match back I can't believe I forgot about that match. Instant Classic. It would feel weird not having #10 as what it is right now though, because that's match that introduced AJ to a lot of people. So from a significance standpoint seems rough not leaving it in there. Fact is AJ has had too many great matches a top 10 list does not do him justice the best you can do is make a top 10 "favorites" list.

That's a great list and that last man standing match between Angle and Kurt was mind blowing! it's crazy all these years looking back, two lions literally at their peak in a dream match! while I hate to a degree that Angle left, he allowed for so many dream matches in TNA. Styles / Low Ki is another one which fallls under the radar from the ROH appreciation night! there are so many other classics he had from the early 2000s with the likes of Chris Sabin, Psicosis and Jerry Lynn; correct me if am wrong but he won the inaugral X division title against Lynn on the debut NWA Wildside PPV; that was like his first real big shot on a decent platform and boy did you think he was special, he just always had it and continues to innovate, his character work recently and promo ability has been outstanding, a big myth which has always been debunked throughout his career.
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] The show must go on! in true Vincent Kennedy McMahon fashion Wrestlemania will now take place in an empty arena at the WWE performance centre! what are your initial thoughts ?

I'd say at first I was outraged but then safety is first and secondly, for WWE re-scheduling can be tricky considering we can't anticipate when this situation will resolve and while those who have already booked tickets for certain shows which will be cancelled, WWE have TV and PPV deals all around the work so they can still produce content; if Mania was to get re-scheduled what of the events which are to follow ? so this was probably Vinces concern so he will be producing weekly shows and PPV's via the WWE performance centre with no live audience. Some of you may be aware of Lucha Underground, I don't anticipate such a radical change in a short period but potentially this is a chance for WWE to maybe innovate when it comes to their production similar to the stuff Lucha did but it's probably unlikely.
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] The show must go on! in true Vincent Kennedy McMahon fashion Wrestlemania will now take place in an empty arena at the WWE performance centre! what are your initial thoughts ?

I'd say at first I was outraged but then safety is first and secondly, for WWE re-scheduling can be tricky considering we can't anticipate when this situation will resolve and while those who have already booked tickets for certain shows which will be cancelled, WWE have TV and PPV deals all around the work so they can still produce content; if Mania was to get re-scheduled what of the events which are to follow ? so this was probably Vinces concern so he will be producing weekly shows and PPV's via the WWE performance centre with no live audience. Some of you may be aware of Lucha Underground, I don't anticipate such a radical change in a short period but potentially this is a chance for WWE to maybe innovate when it comes to their production similar to the stuff Lucha did but it's probably unlikely.

It's going to be so weird not mad or anything I knew something like this would happen or it would either get cancelled, as should have been health and safety come first. Although it already takes so much away from the event without a crowd WWE is just not the same. Takes away some of the buzz for Mania already.
 
That boneyard match was a ************** classic and one of my all time favorite matches, it elevated what was a pretty eh WM to being a good one.

AJ and Taker were brilliant and delivered in spades.

"GO down like a man"
"No"

Had me in tears :)))

Absolute masterpiece, hopefully they keep AJ off TV and bring him back for a rematch with Taker at Summerslam would love to see a rematch or sequel :))
 
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As big wrestling fan as a kid, I thought I'd give wrestlemania a try during this lockdown.

I can't believe how bad it was, would have been better off cancelling it.
 
Should have cancelled it. Wrestlers are also humans. :inti

That was the only concern for me but they did implement some very strict measures which meant only a limited number of people were involved.

That aside, without an audience boy what an outstanding shift everyone put in; I actually enjoyed night 1. Tag opener took me some time to get into but they busted their behinds, Corbin/Elias was solid, wanted Bazzler to go over and perhaps the match should have gone a bit longer as I was enjoying it but it was a very intense and physical which felt like a fight, Morrison was the MVP in the ladder match which was a entertaining with all the spots, its crazy taking those bumps with no adrenaline being provided from the crowd.

Bryan/Sami told a great story in the time they had to work and Braun going over was a big surprise but am glad they pulled the trigger, Goldberg should retire.

I really enjoyed KO/Rollins it had it all, the arrogant and extremely obnoxious heel building the heat, only for the face to make a comeback give you that hope then get burned again, both are very sound technically and I loved Seth playing up his messiah persona, the interactions between the two during the match were excellent, I hated the interuption as they had set up for a thrilling finish but overall great.

And then Taker / Styles was a cinematic masterpiece and one of the greatest main events in wrestling history, it just has to be watched to be thoroughly appreciated but this is wrestling at its finest when we rely on strong characters and telling stories which make you suspend your disbelief, right now can't see anyone else pulling off such a performance and Styles has really been enjoying himself as a heel and it has allowed Taker to get very personal and strip things down, the build was fantastic and they delivered on the night, can't recall being so content after a mania main event in a long time. I'd like to see both continue feuding as they have so much chemistry but even if this is a one and done bah gawd they did they entertain.

Wrestlemania 36 will be a little weird at first and don't get me wrong with the crowd things are better but if you give these folk a chance boy will they bust their behinds for you and legit get you into it, really enjoyed night one; would give it about a 7.5/10 overall with Taker/Styles stealing the show with an early MOTY candidate by putting on a 5* classic which will be remembered for decades to come.

In these uncertain times and all the stuff going on around the world credit to everyone involved for the escapism
 
That boneyard match was a ************** classic and one of my all time favorite matches, it elevated what was a pretty eh WM to being a good one.

AJ and Taker were brilliant and delivered in spades.

"GO down like a man"
"No"

Had me in tears :)))

Absolute masterpiece, hopefully they keep AJ off TV and bring him back for a rematch with Taker at Summerslam would love to see a rematch or sequel :))

Just had a look at the boneyard match. What kind of wrestling was that? It looked like a movie...lol. Is it the first boneyard match in WWE?

Anyway good to see American badass undertaker back. One of his best gimmicks.
 
Just had a look at the boneyard match. What kind of wrestling was that? It looked like a movie...lol. Is it the first boneyard match in WWE?

Anyway good to see American badass undertaker back. One of his best gimmicks.

American Badass is back? :inti
 
American Badass is back? :inti

A variation of the American Badass but with darker elements to, I actually feel this version is pretty awesome :afridi what's hilarious is narrow minded hipster smarks were attacking both prior to their match but now are bending over backwards for them, just go by what their little circle jerk feels due to their inability to grasp genuine in-ring excellence, I thoroughly recommend the match; one of the best mania main events you'd have seen in forever, very gritty street fight feel and excellent story telling
 
Can't wait too see Mania later on today I have heard so many great things about it. I am especially looking forward to Taker vs Styles I heard it was a great match.
 
The highlight of the first night by far was Taker vs Styles. It was so amazing to see the return of the ABA / Big Evil Taker. The match was like watching a mini movie, but all credit must go to Taker, AJ and everyone else involved for making it work. I just hope when things go back to normal, Taker makes a return on his bike. The crowd would go nuts.

Also, I'm glad that overrated Goldberg lost the Universal title. I find it disgraceful how they let this guy beat the Fiend, who was red hot at the moment and killed all of his momentum. Goldberg has always been overrated. The guy is a botchy wrestler, who has injured wrestlers, ended careers such as that of the legendary Bret Hart, almost killed Undertaker last year by dropping him on his head. The fact that he wrestles only 3-4 minute long matches tells you that he isn't a good wrestler and he shouldn't be wrestling at all, let alone winning world titles. I'm also glad it was Braun who won the title, because he deserves it.
 
World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) has resumed airing live matches after being deemed an "essential service" in Florida.

Matches were held on Monday night, but with no live ringside audience present.

It comes after Governor Ron DeSantis exempted "professional sports and media production with a national audience" from a statewide stay-at-home order.

Professional basketball, baseball and American football have all been suspended in the US, and international tennis, football and Olympics events are delayed or cancelled.

But for WWE entertainers... the show must go on!

The US has been badly hit by the coronavirus pandemic with 554,684 confirmed cases and 23,608 deaths. In Florida, over 20,000 cases and more than 460 deaths have been reported.
 
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Also thoughts with all the people who were let go, pathetic really WWE can afford to keep them. And they can't work any where else at this stage no indies or aew, japan etc Vince has reacted very ruthlessly. The company has gone to the sh!ts and has been struggling, Vince needs to step down he is way too old for this now just take a break mate. I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold to Disney or something, can't imagine HHH being in charge either Punk was right all those years ago
 
Also thoughts with all the people who were let go, pathetic really WWE can afford to keep them. And they can't work any where else at this stage no indies or aew, japan etc Vince has reacted very ruthlessly. The company has gone to the sh!ts and has been struggling, Vince needs to step down he is way too old for this now just take a break mate. I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold to Disney or something, can't imagine HHH being in charge either Punk was right all those years ago

Punk? Vince could not see the winds of change back in 2002 let alone in 2020. Back then , it was clear that the wrestling industry needed to evolve, tap new markets and change the old way of doing business but Vince was blind to it . Just look at the step motherly treatment given to Smackdown back then despite the fact that it was killing RAW in terms of better storylines, superior wrestling , better ratings etc. Vince still insisted on boring us to death with a HHH centred RAW when clearly nobody cared about it . Even WWE documentaries (which are extremely biased) now admit that Smackdown was a much better show although they'll never acknowledge that it was Vince, Brian gerwitz and hhh being absolutely clueless /political.
 
Punk? Vince could not see the winds of change back in 2002 let alone in 2020. Back then , it was clear that the wrestling industry needed to evolve, tap new markets and change the old way of doing business but Vince was blind to it . Just look at the step motherly treatment given to Smackdown back then despite the fact that it was killing RAW in terms of better storylines, superior wrestling , better ratings etc. Vince still insisted on boring us to death with a HHH centred RAW when clearly nobody cared about it . Even WWE documentaries (which are extremely biased) now admit that Smackdown was a much better show although they'll never acknowledge that it was Vince, Brian gerwitz and hhh being absolutely clueless /political.

Only Hollywood Rock was the reason to watch Raw but then again he went to Hollywood.
 
Also thoughts with all the people who were let go, pathetic really WWE can afford to keep them. And they can't work any where else at this stage no indies or aew, japan etc Vince has reacted very ruthlessly. The company has gone to the sh!ts and has been struggling, Vince needs to step down he is way too old for this now just take a break mate. I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold to Disney or something, can't imagine HHH being in charge either Punk was right all those years ago

Only Hollywood Rock was the reason to watch Raw but then again he went to Hollywood.

The Rock was only on Raw for a couple of months. But yeah his and Austin's return after No Way Out 2003 on Raw is what helped Raw compete with smackdown somewhat. I have been watching that era on WWE network and the Smackdown content has aged brilliantly. Random matches on regular Smackdown s show great , logical storytelling and the in ring action is off the charts - much better than RAW PPV main events!!! Also listening to podcasts of Jericho and watching documentaries etc ,its clear that while RAW had it's bloated egos and old fashioned politicking( Kliq, Steiner, Goldberg etc) , Smackdown (with Paul heyman as creative head) was about putting on a great, competitive show night after night with a great environment for upcoming rookies with the older lot(taker, rikishi, Benoit,angle) helping create new stars in edge, Cena, Brock etc. Vince could not see the writing on the wall even back then
 
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