The Wrestling Discussion Thread

Not entirely sure which day it is but there's definitely a winner takes all to crown a double champ. I'm assuming it will be on night 2 and the match will be amazing, the big matches for NJPW are always bangers.

Gut tells me this is Naito's redemption story as it was him who pushed this double champion stuff and now they're doing it.

I can see Naito avenging his loss to Jay (Jay knocked him out of the G1 and took the IC title off him ) and Okada (lost to Okada @ WK 12 after winning the G1) and becoming double champion.

I doubt it, Okada always goes over plus he is the new Tanahashi / Cena when it comes to who they have positioned as their guy; this is why his W/L record may not necessarily look amazing heading into these big shows but he has to go over, I mean you wouldn't criticise it either even though it will be a bit boring but he justifies being the first double champion. Am not really fond of Naito his work has become a bit too repetitive, he is not as charismatic as a Nakamura to keep things fresh; Ibushi will probably be their main supporting act headed into the next few years imo but don't know what his contract situation is like because he tends to work independently rather then exclusively for a promotion
 
Yeah, the company is definitely missing big men and they've admitted to it.

The problem is WWE is signing anyone half decent and doing nothing with them, there are dozens of WWE wrestlers who could have been amazing for AEW but are in NXT doing little to nothing meaningful when they could be utilized better in AEW. Not a shot at WWE, but they have such a bloated roster and you can only have so many stars in the number of top spots they have available.

In the main roster definitely, but in NXT most of the guys get to thrive; you have to look at them in the same way as OVW as well; they are there to improve their all round skills especially the blokes who are green, the aim obviously is to have those guys eventually debut, WWE are great with scouting the talent to from a variety of different backgrounds. Then to complement the guys who have little experience / predominately learning their craft in the performance centre, they have been smart to bring in independent talent and those from territories in Japan / Europe to bury their hands into that indie market in North America to create a brand for the fans who love that style.

AEW just need to be more proactive, but it's not easy to source that talent with so much competition even with NWA powerr. They did well to get Anthony Oggogo, that was primarily due to his friendship with DDP who is acquainted with the Rhodes
 
I doubt it, Okada always goes over plus he is the new Tanahashi / Cena when it comes to who they have positioned as their guy; this is why his W/L record may not necessarily look amazing heading into these big shows but he has to go over, I mean you wouldn't criticise it either even though it will be a bit boring but he justifies being the first double champion. Am not really fond of Naito his work has become a bit too repetitive, he is not as charismatic as a Nakamura to keep things fresh; Ibushi will probably be their main supporting act headed into the next few years imo but don't know what his contract situation is like because he tends to work independently rather then exclusively for a promotion
Ibushi signed exclusively to NJPW, I thought he would have beaten Okada at WK until they announced the double champion stuff.

Now I'm thinking Okada wins and loses to Naito.

Okada has had enough and Naito is actually more popular than Okada in Japan, he wins all the awards and sells the most merch and tickets.
 
I love the stories they tell in NJPW with results and the physiological and emotional toll W/Ls in matches take on wrestlers, just recently they made Okada-Sananda match feel so special. Check out their G1 match, it was great in ring and tense. One of my favorite matches this year.

That's something that isn't there in the WWE, their W/Ls don't matter and are usually forgotten. In that sense they're not human in when big losses don't take a toll on someones psyche.
 
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Ibushi signed exclusively to NJPW, I thought he would have beaten Okada at WK until they announced the double champion stuff.

Now I'm thinking Okada wins and loses to Naito.

Okada has had enough and Naito is actually more popular than Okada in Japan, he wins all the awards and sells the most merch and tickets.

That's hard to believe, they are paying Okada 2 million a year to work like 20 single matches a year; its one of the best deals in the bizz, Styles is probably has a lower base and that too despite working 100+ singles matches the wear/tear is nuts but he gets to be closer to the family. 2 million works out to be nearly 1/4 billion yen, they wouldn't pay him that much with little return, Okada is a massive draw; what is his contract situation like? No one will match it any way lol
 
That's hard to believe, they are paying Okada 2 million a year to work like 20 single matches a year; its one of the best deals in the bizz, Styles is probably has a lower base and that too despite working 100+ singles matches the wear/tear is nuts but he gets to be closer to the family. 2 million works out to be nearly 1/4 billion yen, they wouldn't pay him that much with little return, Okada is a massive draw; what is his contract situation like? No one will match it any way lol
It's true, LIJ are really over in Japan. Naito won Tokyo Sports Wrestler of the Year in 2016 and 2017 when Okada was having his incredible title reign.

Not sure of his contract situation but I don't see him leaving anytime soon. The guys in Japan are really loyal to their companies and he has the ambition of making NJPW even bigger.
 
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It's true, LIJ are really over in Japan. Naito won Tokyo Sports Wrestler of the Year in 2016 and 2017 when Okada was having his incredible title reign.

Not sure of his contract situation but I don't see him leaving anytime soon. The guys in Japan are really loyal to their companies and he has the ambition of making NJPW even bigger.

They are just awards though, his drawing power is nothing compared to Okada's. Yeah Okada is very loyal, I remember him carrying Nakamura on his shoulders out the arena while he was in tears because he didn't want his feet to leave the in-ring canvas. People get the wrong impression from Okada sometimes because he makes wrestling look so easy, while AJ Styles is the HBK / Flair of his era in terms of resume and accomplishments; on a pure technical level Okada reminds me a great deal of Shawn Michaels stylistically, interestingly he idolises the show stopper as well, I've never seen anyone who could compare to HBK on that level, there are other things to like in-ring IQ, awareness for space and psychology in a variety of unique settings but if we were to have two frames, one of HBK/Okada you can see how they are similar in the way they work. This is probably why I go out of my way to selectively watch his matches because even when you are aware of the inevitable, you'd still watch because he is great to see in full flow; Sanada had like one of the worst records against a world title holder, didn't have any credibility as a contender and we knew he was going to job but it was an enjoyable watch regardless
 
What stood out for me from this taping was how the guys who have worked for the E were able to cut some seriously tremendous promos, they finally gave Page a mic! he isn't a natural, but they kept it short and concise, turned out to be a solid promo; with more time and experience he hopefully will get better because I see him as one of the guys to build the company around once the higher ups manage to exorcise all their nepotism demons, hopefully that isn't too long. That Sammy kid is green as hell in the ring and awkward, but he has shown that he has potential as a character, comes across confident, has great mannerisms and actually attempts to work like a heel, in the ring he should improve over the years very young at the moment and it shows
 

:)))

Precisely my thoughts "Can you imagine someone going to Vince one night during the AE era and saying hey! you're top guy, Stone Cold Steve Austin wants to go out tonight as Super Mario"

LOL

What a damn joke, best in the world :facepalm: Tyler Bate wrestled this week, my goodness what a talent; light years ahead of Kenny in every way, I seriously question what has become of the business to the point where non-nonsensical cos players are rated so highly, they don't take anything seriously at all and the niche followers eat it all up, it's not good comedy either, just pure trash. How are they going to sell the product on a national level like this, there is no real leadership either and Tony Khan needs to stand up, he can't just let a bunch of idiot indie goofs run creative and give jobs to their friends.
 

:yk3 [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] and btw Lesnar avenged his loss to Cain in a few secs with a Kimura lock


That was an epic entrance lmao Fury actually was okay for a guy that had a few weeks of training to get ready in the match with Braun, the publicity and exposure he has been getting lately is nuts, apparently will be crossing over to MMA as well :))
 
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:)))
[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] BITW :))) What an absolute JOKE

His match on AEW this week was pathetic to say the least, his legacy is being the broom stick which Okada carried to classics in Japan which were then highly rated by Meltzer on a scale which wasn't even invented by him, so unless Jim agrees none of those ratings mean jack if we ignore the fact that it's an opinion of a journalist who is a fan with zero experience in the industry as a performer, manager, producer or booker
 
EIK1k5aWoAAue-8.jpg


:)))
[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] BITW :))) What an absolute JOKE

His match on AEW this week was pathetic to say the least, his legacy is being the broom stick which Okada carried to classics in Japan which were then highly rated by Meltzer on a scale which wasn't even invented by him, so unless Jim agrees none of those ratings mean jack if we ignore the fact that it's an opinion of a journalist who is a fan with zero experience in the industry as a performer, manager, producer or booker
this actually blew up on the internet.

Has an absurd amount of likes/rts on twitter and did huge numbers on reddit.
 
this actually blew up on the internet.

Has an absurd amount of likes/rts on twitter and did huge numbers on reddit.

If you look at it objectively, you would know it makes zero sense and has 0% chance of getting over on a national level in north america, and as for those numbers they make absolute perfect sense; this non-nonsensical garbage is only over with the IWC and hipster smarks who never drive the business on main stream level.

I actually thought he would be a good fit in this modern style in north america, but I didn't take into account how thick Kenny is, you see even with all that creative control it's not going to do him any good. I personally said this to him and I genuinly mean it, the NXT performance centre would have done him a world of good to try and improve his pathetic in-ring IQ / make him take the business a bit more seriously. People complain about WWE having too much influence / poor booking, but here's the thing some people actually benefit from being scripted as well no one ever looks at it from that POV, if you give Kenny a blank canvas then the results are obvious over the past few weeks in AEW.....on the other hand you do the same for Ambrose and the results are clear as well, two opposite sides of the same coin.

He has good speed and some excellent finishers but that's all to say sadly, Page is the guy to build their promotion around but he is threatened by a bunch of idiots running the show, they just keep hiring their mates and there is no real leader like a Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes, Cornette or Paul Heyman to whip the talent into shape and have an actual structure with some meaning behind it
 
If you look at it objectively, you would know it makes zero sense and has 0% chance of getting over on a national level in north america, and as for those numbers they make absolute perfect sense; this non-nonsensical garbage is only over with the IWC and hipster smarks who never drive the business on main stream level.

I actually thought he would be a good fit in this modern style in north america, but I didn't take into account how thick Kenny is, you see even with all that creative control it's not going to do him any good. I personally said this to him and I genuinly mean it, the NXT performance centre would have done him a world of good to try and improve his pathetic in-ring IQ / make him take the business a bit more seriously. People complain about WWE having too much influence / poor booking, but here's the thing some people actually benefit from being scripted as well no one ever looks at it from that POV, if you give Kenny a blank canvas then the results are obvious over the past few weeks in AEW.....on the other hand you do the same for Ambrose and the results are clear as well, two opposite sides of the same coin.

He has good speed and some excellent finishers but that's all to say sadly, Page is the guy to build their promotion around but he is threatened by a bunch of idiots running the show, they just keep hiring their mates and there is no real leader like a Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes, Cornette or Paul Heyman to whip the talent into shape and have an actual structure with some meaning behind it

Hate to break it to you those games, anime and cartoons are far more popular and mainstream than wrestling.

Rick and Morty is insanely popular.
 
Hate to break it to you those games, anime and cartoons are far more popular and mainstream than wrestling.

Rick and Morty is insanely popular.

None of that remotely suggests that that shtick is going to raise the profile of those cos players on a national main stream level and compared to mainstream wrestling the viewerships are actually similar anyway. But here we are talking about the promotion and individual wrestlers who came across as a joke, they were used as stooges. Anyway, I had no clue what the hell was going on and I highly doubt the rest of American didn't feel that way apart from a niche hipster following. It was trash Vince Russo would be proud off
 

Pretty much sums up that segment [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] even if we ignore the dreadful match itself, it was pathetic man
 
[MENTION=146504]barah_admi[/MENTION]

I didn't watch all of it but I fully understand the sentiment here and a lot of it makes sense. The biggest problem is that the internet fan is also, excuse the term, an internet nerd. They are the Star Wars fans, the Star Trek maniacs, the comic book obsessive and wrestling has become a part of that sub culture. It is why we have wrestlers trying to be anime characters rather than strong, powerful men that can be rooted for (we went from Hogan, Austin and The Rock to Kenny Omega, Dean Ambrose et al) to a slew of cartoon characters.
 
Anyway lets talk about performers who take their art very seriously [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] , we have a very subtle NXT invasion on Smackdown this week and it made for one hell of an episode, wont spoil to much but arguably saw my match of the year between Adam Cole and Daniel Bryan who just keeps proving that he is without a doubt one of the greatest ever to lace a pair of boots; the match itself was a masterpiece, they didn't go on longer then they needed to, the pacing was excellent, no excessive high spots or near falls either; excellent display of ground work, technical wrestling and execution of aerial offence; they sold tremendously well and told the story of a cocky/confident NXT performer backed by HHH/HBK challenging a super over-confident former world champion between the ropes in a straight shoot out and giving him hell, Bryan tested him all the way and bought about his ruthless side which made him famous in ROH, Bryan manipulated his joints, worked the injured wrist/arm constantly, rolled out the half crab and dragon sleeper among other submissions whilst viciously striked him with european upper cuts and side kicks, I loved this ruthless side; Cole's intensity was there throughout and the desperation especially, he seems to have a style which is very friendly vs all opponents and actually works like a heel, enjoyed the match a great deal fair play to both
 
I didn't watch all of it but I fully understand the sentiment here and a lot of it makes sense. The biggest problem is that the internet fan is also, excuse the term, an internet nerd. They are the Star Wars fans, the Star Trek maniacs, the comic book obsessive and wrestling has become a part of that sub culture. It is why we have wrestlers trying to be anime characters rather than strong, powerful men that can be rooted for (we went from Hogan, Austin and The Rock to Kenny Omega, Dean Ambrose et al) to a slew of cartoon characters.

That is true to a big degree, because there is a demand for that among those hipsters online apparently that makes it very good, but how can anyone objectively praise anything Kenny Omega is able to do; he is not a compelling character at all or one that will suspend the audiences disbelief, in the ring he is very average as well. Even in this day and age I can't see that get over like a Austin or Rock but for those fellas he is right up there or even better lol
 
None of that remotely suggests that that shtick is going to raise the profile of those cos players on a national main stream level and compared to mainstream wrestling the viewerships are actually similar anyway. But here we are talking about the promotion and individual wrestlers who came across as a joke, they were used as stooges. Anyway, I had no clue what the hell was going on and I highly doubt the rest of American didn't feel that way apart from a niche hipster following. It was trash Vince Russo would be proud off
You know AEW is beating WWE in viewership in the UK and is about to surpass Raw in Canada within a month (they already beat SD there).
 
You know AEW is beating WWE in viewership in the UK and is about to surpass Raw in Canada within a month (they already beat SD there).

Tash is trash, you can't get main stream over in USA market then this WWE take over talk is way too far fetched, TNA even now do well over here doesn't mean anything. AEW isn't even shown live here, its a highlightes show on free to air tv
 
Tash is trash, you can't get main stream over in USA market then this WWE take over talk is way too far fetched, TNA even now do well over here doesn't mean anything. AEW isn't even shown live here, its a highlightes show on free to air tv
Didn't Sky Sport cancel WWE in the UK?

Raw did 3,000 viewers the previous week.

THREE THOUSAND :)))

In Canada, AEW will be beating both shows. In the UK, it will probably be beating both shows.
 
Didn't Sky Sport cancel WWE in the UK?

Raw did 3,000 viewers the previous week.

THREE THOUSAND :)))

In Canada, AEW will be beating both shows. In the UK, it will probably be beating both shows.

They are with BT sports now and their platform is booming

Firstly quote the source along with numbers and secondly why don't you understand it is irrelevant ? this isn't unusual or something new, FTa and cable are two distinct financial models

In the grand scheme, judge the actual quality of the programming and you will see it wont get over in America or hurt the E in any way
 
WE wrestlers were “held hostage” in Saudi Arabia and stopped from boarding flights back to the US in a row over payment, according to reports.

Nearly 200 stars of the Smackdown brand and their entourage were ordered to wait on the tarmac for six hours at Riyadh International by Saudi’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, The Mirror reported.

The prince, or MBS as he is nicknamed, was allegedly furious that Vince McMahon, World Wrestling Entertainment’s chief executive, had cancelled the live feed of the show "Crown Jewel in Saudi Arabia" because the company was owed up to $500m (£390m) for two shows in the kingdom last year.

The delay meant the wrestlers missed a live show in Buffalo, New York, the following day - with the no-show being blamed on “‘mechanical issues” that stopped their 747 plane leaving Riyadh.

Dave Meltzer, a US sports journalist, tweeted on Friday: “Some notes since nobody can say anything. WWE had a problem in Saudi Arabia.

"Talent was not allowed to leave on their flight and most are still there. Twenty people, twelve of which were talent, have left but the rest are still there.”

Some – including Mr McMahon and stars such as Hulk Hogan and Tyson Fury – managed to get out on their own private jets.

Mr Meltzer told the radio station, Wrestling Observer, that tensions grew when military police were sent to the airport in the capital Riyadh.

He said: “The talent felt they were hostages… nobody was harmed or anything like that. It’s a really tense story.”

Former WWE announcer Hugo Savinovich posted a video on Facebook saying the reason for the flight delay was Saudi retaliation for the live feed being pulled by WWE.

WWE on Friday confirmed that wrestlers including Karl Anderson and Brian Myers, both of whom compete on “Raw,” sat on the tarmac for six hours — but blamed the late take-off on “mechanical issues.”

The plane’s owner, Atlas Air, issued a similar statement, adding that “the aircraft is being repaired and will be inspected and certified before returning to service.”

Wrestlers that had been left waiting on the runway vowed never to go back. Wrestler Karl Anderson said on Twitter: “Couldn’t pay me enough to go back..well, that’s not true, I need a second pool, so…”

WWE launched in Saudi Arabia in 2014, with two to four shows a year in the desert kingdom.

The contests have have been held in the wake of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a dissident journalist, in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last year.

The WWE issued a statement on the airplane incident, part of which read: “After the door closed, due to several aircraft problems including mechanical issues, all passengers sat on the tarmac for more than six hours.”

The statement did not directly discuss the claim of retaliation from Crown Prince Mohammed, instead providing an alternative explanation for what happened.

Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...tage-saudi-arabia-plane-dispute-crown-prince/.
 
Holding a dust bin and then doing a moonsault on it, botching a pile driver on a dust bin and then running into a PPV logo head first when his opponent is meant to be the main target LOL Best in the World, amazing wrestling performance and story telling from Kenny :))) [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138821]TNAmarkFromIndia[/MENTION] what a trash bag stinking the joint, has always been a mediocre mid card stunt man with an extremely low in-ring IQ, his mannerisms are absolutely horrific and that nerdy persona is not remotely over at the main stream main event level, he can't talk or wrestle; just great for outlaw mud shows. Am glad they banned him from Japan, without the likes of Okada carrying his mediocre behind he is nothing and never was.

The reaction to his run in North America is there for all to see, he is even losing support from the hipsters and LGBT community who like his homosexual mannerisms, how this guy is taken seriously by anyone at this point is beyond me. It's actually pathetic and sad the likes of Page / Neville are being booked to play supporting roles over him, the crowd are yearning to get behind Page but shady booking and nepotism has allowed Kenny to hog the spotlight much like HHH who at least could pull it off and had credibility to a degree.

However I did enjoy Cody / Jericho and Neville / Page, great all round raslin matches, everything else was meh ; the Quen bloke from private party is veyr talented; he needs to escape the nepotism and find himself a proper training school / teacher to make the best of his natural ability before it is too late.
 
Great to see MJF turn, hopefully he has his own segment every week now it was inexplicable to me that they refused to give him a mic in the past month or so.
 
The build to SS PPV has been terrific so far enjoying the invasion angle and how NXT have been placed, their shows have been very solid thus far [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]
 
Part of me was praying Kenny's low in-ring IQ would finally catch up to him with some of the bumps he took in that match, what a pure idiot; he has complete creative control over the stuff he does and the thing is he gains nothing from those cheap pops or has the credibility as a character to pull it off because of how goofy he is so it just didn't make any sense over all, this man is meant to be superior to the Hitman apparently :))) whoever said that should be drug tested and boiled in hot water.
 
Apart from the Aubrey woman, the officiating in AEW has been horrendous; it seems to me either those people are fans or just friends of the bucks etc because am sure you can disqualify a rasler on the count of 5 and then ask him to break on 4 not 3, on top of that there is so much lack of clarity and miscommunication in terms of the finish to quiet a few of the matches so far its almost like they need someone to carry them. The commentary is god awful as well that Xcalibre goof comes across as a big hipster, he has stammered and stuttered so many times I have lost count; there is no meaning behind what he says and he isn't able to get any of the performers over, Jim Ross has to carry his sorry behind and you can tell it's really tough on him because the level of stupidity is insane from that guy, he's just a mark nothing more, adds no value to the programming, on national TV he is being allowed to work :facepalm: it takes away from the production big time
 
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] you will enjoy this, I don't think there is a better person to give an overview of everything that happened then Jim who was directly involved during that time in the background being a member of creative
 
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] you will enjoy this, I don't think there is a better person to give an overview of everything that happened then Jim who was directly involved during that time in the background being a member of creative

Hogan,HHH and maybe Nash the biggest backstabbers in wrestling industry.
 
Holding a dust bin and then doing a moonsault on it, botching a pile driver on a dust bin and then running into a PPV logo head first when his opponent is meant to be the main target LOL Best in the World, amazing wrestling performance and story telling from Kenny :))) [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138821]TNAmarkFromIndia[/MENTION] what a trash bag stinking the joint, has always been a mediocre mid card stunt man with an extremely low in-ring IQ, his mannerisms are absolutely horrific and that nerdy persona is not remotely over at the main stream main event level, he can't talk or wrestle; just great for outlaw mud shows. Am glad they banned him from Japan, without the likes of Okada carrying his mediocre behind he is nothing and never was.

The reaction to his run in North America is there for all to see, he is even losing support from the hipsters and LGBT community who like his homosexual mannerisms, how this guy is taken seriously by anyone at this point is beyond me. It's actually pathetic and sad the likes of Page / Neville are being booked to play supporting roles over him, the crowd are yearning to get behind Page but shady booking and nepotism has allowed Kenny to hog the spotlight much like HHH who at least could pull it off and had credibility to a degree.

However I did enjoy Cody / Jericho and Neville / Page, great all round raslin matches, everything else was meh ; the Quen bloke from private party is veyr talented; he needs to escape the nepotism and find himself a proper training school / teacher to make the best of his natural ability before it is too late.

This dude is languishing in the mid card even in a new fledgeling company and he was supposed to be better than HBK. :))) That says a lot about him and his drawing power.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141306]sweep_shot[/MENTION] Breaking news:
CM punk appeared on WWE Backstage on Fox.
Seems like Fox hired Punk.
 
This dude is languishing in the mid card even in a new fledgeling company and he was supposed to be better than HBK. :))) That says a lot about him and his drawing power.

According to the likes of the Indians Aman and TNA mark, he is HBK + Bret Combined if not superior when it comes to wrestling ability, when it comes to promos he is in the same class as the nature boy Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes and Terry Funk and as far as toughness / fear factor is concerned, the man is Bruiser Brody and Harley Race all in one. And you only need to watch his long list of impressive performances in AEW thus far to grasp his critically acclaimed in-ring IQ and ability to tell a story, Jake Roberts and Eddie Gurrero would be proud.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141306]sweep_shot[/MENTION] Breaking news:
CM punk appeared on WWE Backstage on Fox.
Seems like Fox hired Punk.

Yes, WWE Backstage has been doing horrendous numbers; initially reports have said WWE have been against the idea of bringing him back. However, with the new Fox deal their executives played a massive role in acquiring his services and emptied their wallets as well. He is expected to earn a 6 figure some to make appearances here and there, who could say no to that! I suppose this does open the window for a return to the ring potentially and I think that is more likely then ever, with Fox pumping so much $$$ and having some influence combined with the money pot available in WWE today it should be enough to ensure a return but we shall see
 
Hogan,HHH and maybe Nash the biggest backstabbers in wrestling industry.

HHH has to be up there perhaps the greatest of them all and you look at where has got to now and you will see why as well, he is probably burning right now that Punk is back given their known issues. Vince will do business with anyone but when HHH's ego runs wild, you better hope you have some stroke. An over rated performer but one hell of a snake.
 
In the early to mid 90s, Shawn Michaels was eulogised in the Wrestling Observer by one of his biggest fans in Dave Meltzer, coming out of the epic Ladder rematch at SummerSlam in 1995 with Razor Ramon he wrote "For the 3rd time in 1995, Shawn stole the show and removed any doubt that he is the best wrestler in the US; he is the Ric Flair of the 90s and the most talented American worker of all time"

What is interesting to note is that in early 1995 Shawn was never considered as a pure baby face by Vince however Pat Patterson was one of his biggest advocates and also Bruce; however they stopped raising this with Vince when he said Shawn will never be champion! this was during a time when the company was under the pump with Diesel as champion, the creative / producers all saw $$$ in Shawn but Vince just didn't accept him as a face and also wasn't sold because of his size, creative then decided we just need to try and get him out there in that top spot because the crowd are so behind him, this would lead to the WM 11 world title match with Diesel who wasn't exactly the best worker in the world; Shawn put on an epic performance, selling extremely well for Big Daddy and displaying his unique athleticism; the crowd was split down the middle and couldn't help but pop for Shawn at that point because his in-ring pedigree was hard to not like. It's also worth pointing out in the Observer once again Dave couldn't praise the match enough and especially Shawn's performance as that match wasn't expected to be any where near as good as it was.

Vince that same night would tag along with Pat and Bruce on the way home and he would be extremely livid suggesting that you know what guys! we gotta make Shawn a face and potentially even a champion! am I the only one who is seeing this :)) We tend to compare Styles and Shawn often in different ways but in terms of how Vince was sold on the two, the two stories actually merge; when Styles joined WWE he wasn't expected to be more then an upper mid carder, but when he fought for the world title in a losing effort first time much like Shawn, he put on a stellar performance; yes Roman was a much better worker then Diesel but it was still a great match and at that time Roman had so much heat and was still improving, Styles did extremely well to sell him as a world champion and in doing so that performance caught Vince's attention in a massive way, I remember posting in this thread that Styles would no doubt win the championship soon after and that would follow.

Going back to 1995, Vince also had Sid as Shawn's body guard, there were concerns about the perception of his size; to negate that and put him in a world title match / stack the odds against Diesel that was reasoning behind the move. But after Shawn's performance, the two would break up; his face turn would be in effect immediately after the WM 11 performance with Sid turning on HBK and thus would begun a main-event level push, Shawn would win the IC title from Jeff Jarett in another classic and technical masterpiece before clashing with Razor at SummerSlam; this match was very interesting, after the incredible effort at WM 10 there were complaints from regulatory bodies and sponsors that a ladder can't be used offensively and it's a bad influence on the children with it being a house hold item, Vince would then decide prior to the match that nor Shawn or Razor can use the Ladder to hit the other! I actually didn't know this until now! but having watched the match it was elevated even further because the two displayed incredible in-ring psychology and innovated further to come up with spots which the US audience had never seen before, I loved the pace and how Razor worked the leg and their were some great call back spots from the WM 10 match as well.

Towards the final 1/4 of the 1995 the year ended on a rather sour note for HBK, he was assaulted by 3 marines allegedly in a local bar; at this point Sean and Davey who were a part of the other roster half on tour for some house shows felt it would be fitting to dump his carcass in front of Chris Candido's door (the bf of sunny); Chris and sunny find him and call the ambulance, when he wakes up sunny is next to him in the hospital bed and Vince is obviously first and foremost concerned for Shawn's safety but felt he should not have put himself in that position, it was a brutal with blood coming from his eyes and ears. The extent of what happened is unknown but a marine was charged and it was believed there were others involved in the attack, WWE wouldn't press charges due to the publicity the story would get and Dave covered it stating also the heels/faces were out together it would have been a bad look that the guys were having a drink when they were meant to be feuding, that would have been covered as there were reports that Davey/Sean were attempting to save HBK from the attackers but were too intoxicated themselves. The IC title would be forfeited and HBK would make his return in November, also working the SS PPV that month.

With Shawn's recent attack he suffered, having to drop the IC title and then on his return doing an interview with JR in a first where they did a bit of a worked shoot weaving the reality of stuff which had happened outside the ring into current story-lines; the idea was to get more baby face sympathy for HBK and this led to one of the most memorable angles of the year; in a match with Owen Hart on RAW after the SS PPV, a few minutes after Hart had hit HBK with an enguzuri to the back of the head, Shawn collapses and doesn't get back up; Vince then gets off his headset (colour commentary run) then rushes to the ring in order to check on Shawn, he had never ever done this before and according to HBK he had argued that they should go to dead air at this point because if Vince and JR kept talking, it becomes clear that this is an angle and eventually Vince did go for the idea. Bruce Prichard had originally come up with the angle, they wanted to tie the attacks Shawn suffered and subsequent concussion to the kick he suffered to the head by Owen; the story would go that he had suffered another concussion despite looking spectacular in the match / healthy, it was easy to sell considering the impact of post concussion syndromes which he would already have been suffering in theory after the attacks / not 100% recovered., this was emphasised further because there was a delayed reaction to the kick HBK suffered, in the match itself after taking it he would clothesline Owen over the top rope and then fire up before collapsing suddenly; you can just imagine the shock and horror at the time :)) [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] Vince would come into the ring, they would then go to dead air; commentary silent, medics in the ring with the Oxygen, pin drop silence in the arena, camera shots on people in the crowd crying and all; real life emotion.

On the heels of the post match situation, HBK was actually submitted to a Hospital and they had to sign release papers to get him out of there; to keep the kayfabe in tact Shawn reportedly said to the doctors he was feeling groggy and described concussion like symptoms, there was so much concern at the time that fans were calling the Hospital for a status on his health and wanted to know how their hero was doing, it wasn't easy to convince Vince and all involved to take the plunge but I personally feel like this story was a big landmark for the company at the time and taking a little bit of a step into uncharted waters when it came to a more edgy / reality based narrative; this would then be seen a bit more frequently in the financially acclaimed era which would follow for the WWF.

Shawn wouldn't wrestle again in 1995, after teasing retirement he would return at the Royal Rumble to a mega pop and win it to begin his journey towards world championship status; the angle worked like a charm to get HBK over even further and after winning the RR earlier in 1995, you need to create a compelling narrative for him to win again because you've decided he is going to be the guy who will carry the company forward as the world champion / flag bearer through 96 and beyond. It was a pivotal year for HBK because while creative were behind him Vince was not sold, but in this year he showed how capable he is as a baby face and how consistent he can be as an in-ring performer day in day out against a variety of opposition.

As far as raslin "journalism" is concerned, there probably wasn't a bigger fan of HBK's then Meltzer especially in the 90s, the 5* awards and critically acclaimed matches against big dudes he shouldn't have been able to perform so well again which Metlzer enjoyed highly, from the effort with Diesel / Jarret to the epic confrontation with Razor he was acclaimed heavily in the Observer and as I had mentioned earlier; a direct quote from Dave "He is the Ric Flair of the 90s" that was massive praise [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]. In the end Meltzer is only one man and his subjective ratings are just an opinion; more over beyond writing he has no experience in the business, a good historian no doubt but beyond that he's just a fan, what turned the tide for him when it came to Shawn ? is the big question, because as far as his in-ring work is concerned he has gone out of his way to put him over in a big way. You read some of his tweets now and he is quick to put him down over high spot specialists and inferior performers with a vastly one dimensional resume; there is talk that he is playing some sort of heel character to entice more WON subscribers and while that is true there is a lot more to it then that.

What people tend to forget is, during the mid to late 90s; Dave's biggest insider was none other then Bret Hart himself, now I am a fan of the Montreal Screwjob coverage from Dave in the late 90s it was truly world class but it is no secret that his relationship with Bret was very personal, he has repeatedly said on record he considers Bret to be a personal friend. And don't get me wrong, Shawn was an absolutely big douche-bag in the 90s and deserves every criticism as far as his personality is concerned at the time but in the ring he was amazing, Dave in the coming years and much after that would begin to bury Shawn not just as a personality but as an in-ring performer and much of it was primarily due to his relationship with Bret. To test his theory that the modern performers today and those specifically in Japan are light years ahead of the greats of the past, I challenge anyone to contact him and ask him if Bret is an inferior performer compared to the likes of Ospreay and Kenny among others in Japan etc he will deflect no doubt but it would be much easier for him to bury Shawn when compared to those performers, the talked about match which broke his scale in Okada/Omega was raised with him myself, I said to him well Dave; Bret didn't need to hit those triple moonsaults / excessive high spots to get over and he never had to kill himself or his opponent either in doing so, Dave's response was "not everyone is Bret". As far as his ratings, thoughts on Shawn and objectivity are concerned; that's all you need to know, but like I said it's just one mans opinion. As far as pundits are concerned it's safe to say Jim Cornette who was also a part of creative in the 90s probably despises HBK as much as anybody else, he wishes he screwed HBK over Bret in 97! but I value his insight a lot more when it comes to in-ring prowess, after all he came up with the 5* scale and his resume speaks for itself.

Just some interesting wrestling history I thought I would share.
 
Having watched wwf since 1985 and attended the first ever uk wwf event in 1989, featuring hulk hogan, macho man randy savage, miss elizabeth, scary sherry, dino bravo, bret hart etc.
I find it rather disappointing to watch wwe with all the midgets they are now putting over, the likes of aj syles,.daniel bryant, shorty g, ali etc.
Not my cup of tea, suprised vince is letting this happen, as its well documented, hes no fan of midgets either.
 
Having watched wwf since 1985 and attended the first ever uk wwf event in 1989, featuring hulk hogan, macho man randy savage, miss elizabeth, scary sherry, dino bravo, bret hart etc.
I find it rather disappointing to watch wwe with all the midgets they are now putting over, the likes of aj syles,.daniel bryant, shorty g, ali etc.
Not my cup of tea, suprised vince is letting this happen, as its well documented, hes no fan of midgets either.

Majority of those guys work the upper mid card, Styles and Bryan are exception to the rule because they got over for their shear skill. Brock Lesnar is the world champion and beyond him Roman Reigns is the top guy even without a world title belt, Bray Wyatt is the current WWE champion although not small. It takes a while for Vince to be sold on lightweights it's never easy, but this era the high spot style does have a big influence on consumer demand but Vince's promotion they generally have toned it down and give you a decent overall variety but with that being said there are not as many big guys now as there were back then, after the steroid scandal things changed and even further after what Benoit did. If you tune into AEW who is meant to be the rival, their roster is stacked with legit midgets from top to bottom however.
 
In the early to mid 90s, Shawn Michaels was eulogised in the Wrestling Observer by one of his biggest fans in Dave Meltzer, coming out of the epic Ladder rematch at SummerSlam in 1995 with Razor Ramon he wrote "For the 3rd time in 1995, Shawn stole the show and removed any doubt that he is the best wrestler in the US; he is the Ric Flair of the 90s and the most talented American worker of all time"

What is interesting to note is that in early 1995 Shawn was never considered as a pure baby face by Vince however Pat Patterson was one of his biggest advocates and also Bruce; however they stopped raising this with Vince when he said Shawn will never be champion! this was during a time when the company was under the pump with Diesel as champion, the creative / producers all saw $$$ in Shawn but Vince just didn't accept him as a face and also wasn't sold because of his size, creative then decided we just need to try and get him out there in that top spot because the crowd are so behind him, this would lead to the WM 11 world title match with Diesel who wasn't exactly the best worker in the world; Shawn put on an epic performance, selling extremely well for Big Daddy and displaying his unique athleticism; the crowd was split down the middle and couldn't help but pop for Shawn at that point because his in-ring pedigree was hard to not like. It's also worth pointing out in the Observer once again Dave couldn't praise the match enough and especially Shawn's performance as that match wasn't expected to be any where near as good as it was.

Vince that same night would tag along with Pat and Bruce on the way home and he would be extremely livid suggesting that you know what guys! we gotta make Shawn a face and potentially even a champion! am I the only one who is seeing this :)) We tend to compare Styles and Shawn often in different ways but in terms of how Vince was sold on the two, the two stories actually merge; when Styles joined WWE he wasn't expected to be more then an upper mid carder, but when he fought for the world title in a losing effort first time much like Shawn, he put on a stellar performance; yes Roman was a much better worker then Diesel but it was still a great match and at that time Roman had so much heat and was still improving, Styles did extremely well to sell him as a world champion and in doing so that performance caught Vince's attention in a massive way, I remember posting in this thread that Styles would no doubt win the championship soon after and that would follow.

Going back to 1995, Vince also had Sid as Shawn's body guard, there were concerns about the perception of his size; to negate that and put him in a world title match / stack the odds against Diesel that was reasoning behind the move. But after Shawn's performance, the two would break up; his face turn would be in effect immediately after the WM 11 performance with Sid turning on HBK and thus would begun a main-event level push, Shawn would win the IC title from Jeff Jarett in another classic and technical masterpiece before clashing with Razor at SummerSlam; this match was very interesting, after the incredible effort at WM 10 there were complaints from regulatory bodies and sponsors that a ladder can't be used offensively and it's a bad influence on the children with it being a house hold item, Vince would then decide prior to the match that nor Shawn or Razor can use the Ladder to hit the other! I actually didn't know this until now! but having watched the match it was elevated even further because the two displayed incredible in-ring psychology and innovated further to come up with spots which the US audience had never seen before, I loved the pace and how Razor worked the leg and their were some great call back spots from the WM 10 match as well.

Towards the final 1/4 of the 1995 the year ended on a rather sour note for HBK, he was assaulted by 3 marines allegedly in a local bar; at this point Sean and Davey who were a part of the other roster half on tour for some house shows felt it would be fitting to dump his carcass in front of Chris Candido's door (the bf of sunny); Chris and sunny find him and call the ambulance, when he wakes up sunny is next to him in the hospital bed and Vince is obviously first and foremost concerned for Shawn's safety but felt he should not have put himself in that position, it was a brutal with blood coming from his eyes and ears. The extent of what happened is unknown but a marine was charged and it was believed there were others involved in the attack, WWE wouldn't press charges due to the publicity the story would get and Dave covered it stating also the heels/faces were out together it would have been a bad look that the guys were having a drink when they were meant to be feuding, that would have been covered as there were reports that Davey/Sean were attempting to save HBK from the attackers but were too intoxicated themselves. The IC title would be forfeited and HBK would make his return in November, also working the SS PPV that month.

With Shawn's recent attack he suffered, having to drop the IC title and then on his return doing an interview with JR in a first where they did a bit of a worked shoot weaving the reality of stuff which had happened outside the ring into current story-lines; the idea was to get more baby face sympathy for HBK and this led to one of the most memorable angles of the year; in a match with Owen Hart on RAW after the SS PPV, a few minutes after Hart had hit HBK with an enguzuri to the back of the head, Shawn collapses and doesn't get back up; Vince then gets off his headset (colour commentary run) then rushes to the ring in order to check on Shawn, he had never ever done this before and according to HBK he had argued that they should go to dead air at this point because if Vince and JR kept talking, it becomes clear that this is an angle and eventually Vince did go for the idea. Bruce Prichard had originally come up with the angle, they wanted to tie the attacks Shawn suffered and subsequent concussion to the kick he suffered to the head by Owen; the story would go that he had suffered another concussion despite looking spectacular in the match / healthy, it was easy to sell considering the impact of post concussion syndromes which he would already have been suffering in theory after the attacks / not 100% recovered., this was emphasised further because there was a delayed reaction to the kick HBK suffered, in the match itself after taking it he would clothesline Owen over the top rope and then fire up before collapsing suddenly; you can just imagine the shock and horror at the time :)) [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] Vince would come into the ring, they would then go to dead air; commentary silent, medics in the ring with the Oxygen, pin drop silence in the arena, camera shots on people in the crowd crying and all; real life emotion.

On the heels of the post match situation, HBK was actually submitted to a Hospital and they had to sign release papers to get him out of there; to keep the kayfabe in tact Shawn reportedly said to the doctors he was feeling groggy and described concussion like symptoms, there was so much concern at the time that fans were calling the Hospital for a status on his health and wanted to know how their hero was doing, it wasn't easy to convince Vince and all involved to take the plunge but I personally feel like this story was a big landmark for the company at the time and taking a little bit of a step into uncharted waters when it came to a more edgy / reality based narrative; this would then be seen a bit more frequently in the financially acclaimed era which would follow for the WWF.

Shawn wouldn't wrestle again in 1995, after teasing retirement he would return at the Royal Rumble to a mega pop and win it to begin his journey towards world championship status; the angle worked like a charm to get HBK over even further and after winning the RR earlier in 1995, you need to create a compelling narrative for him to win again because you've decided he is going to be the guy who will carry the company forward as the world champion / flag bearer through 96 and beyond. It was a pivotal year for HBK because while creative were behind him Vince was not sold, but in this year he showed how capable he is as a baby face and how consistent he can be as an in-ring performer day in day out against a variety of opposition.

As far as raslin "journalism" is concerned, there probably wasn't a bigger fan of HBK's then Meltzer especially in the 90s, the 5* awards and critically acclaimed matches against big dudes he shouldn't have been able to perform so well again which Metlzer enjoyed highly, from the effort with Diesel / Jarret to the epic confrontation with Razor he was acclaimed heavily in the Observer and as I had mentioned earlier; a direct quote from Dave "He is the Ric Flair of the 90s" that was massive praise [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]. In the end Meltzer is only one man and his subjective ratings are just an opinion; more over beyond writing he has no experience in the business, a good historian no doubt but beyond that he's just a fan, what turned the tide for him when it came to Shawn ? is the big question, because as far as his in-ring work is concerned he has gone out of his way to put him over in a big way. You read some of his tweets now and he is quick to put him down over high spot specialists and inferior performers with a vastly one dimensional resume; there is talk that he is playing some sort of heel character to entice more WON subscribers and while that is true there is a lot more to it then that.

What people tend to forget is, during the mid to late 90s; Dave's biggest insider was none other then Bret Hart himself, now I am a fan of the Montreal Screwjob coverage from Dave in the late 90s it was truly world class but it is no secret that his relationship with Bret was very personal, he has repeatedly said on record he considers Bret to be a personal friend. And don't get me wrong, Shawn was an absolutely big douche-bag in the 90s and deserves every criticism as far as his personality is concerned at the time but in the ring he was amazing, Dave in the coming years and much after that would begin to bury Shawn not just as a personality but as an in-ring performer and much of it was primarily due to his relationship with Bret. To test his theory that the modern performers today and those specifically in Japan are light years ahead of the greats of the past, I challenge anyone to contact him and ask him if Bret is an inferior performer compared to the likes of Ospreay and Kenny among others in Japan etc he will deflect no doubt but it would be much easier for him to bury Shawn when compared to those performers, the talked about match which broke his scale in Okada/Omega was raised with him myself, I said to him well Dave; Bret didn't need to hit those triple moonsaults / excessive high spots to get over and he never had to kill himself or his opponent either in doing so, Dave's response was "not everyone is Bret". As far as his ratings, thoughts on Shawn and objectivity are concerned; that's all you need to know, but like I said it's just one mans opinion. As far as pundits are concerned it's safe to say Jim Cornette who was also a part of creative in the 90s probably despises HBK as much as anybody else, he wishes he screwed HBK over Bret in 97! but I value his insight a lot more when it comes to in-ring prowess, after all he came up with the 5* scale and his resume speaks for itself.

Just some interesting wrestling history I thought I would share.

Wow, what a brilliantly written post, so much insight here. I've seen that match several times and I had no idea that they weren't allowed to use the ladders as a weapon.

This has to be the Time Pass POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]
 
HHH has to be up there perhaps the greatest of them all and you look at where has got to now and you will see why as well, he is probably burning right now that Punk is back given their known issues. Vince will do business with anyone but when HHH's ego runs wild, you better hope you have some stroke. An over rated performer but one hell of a snake.

During the reign of terror reign, the WWE was in a huge hangover period from the post attitude era and the invasion debacle. It was a downhill period that isn't often talked about. They tried to fix things early by getting Flair in with the co-owner thing. That failed after 2 months. Then they got Hogan and NWO back but that turned out to be temporary. Rock and Austin were gone full-time. They had a huge pool of midcard guys so they split up the brands without enough top main event babyfaces. They tried another shock and brought in Bischoff and then the surprise wore off and they were left with nothing. It was a period where they had ZERO face stars that could be credible champions. They needed to make new stars in that period. Sure they made brock lesnar but he was a heel at the time and always was suited as a heel. Smackdown had to rely on the six to put on great matches and brock being a dominant champion to be watchable. RAW had a less talented roster overall and with only HBK as the main face and HHH as the credible heel. HBK vs HHH was triggered way too early and that left 2003 completely with no direction and HHH had to carry the brand as champion and its never good for a heel to carry the show for such a long time. So I don't know if he buried everyone during the reign, I think it was just a transition period and HHH was the safe option. The only ones that truly suffered were Booker T who obviously should have won at WM19 instead of being made a fool of. Also, RVD was a huge star in waiting but they fed him to HHH as the first challenger and killed his momentum, he would have been huge if they waited longer. HHH should have had his 1st title match against Flair at Unforgiven so he could hold onto the title without hurting anybodys push. And lastly Jericho suffered a lot because he was the second top heel doing some of his best work left with nothing on the show. After the HBK match, he should have been put on Smackdown where he could have been the main event heel for the rest of 2003 and 2004 and get another title run. Seems like he was wasted on RAW from 2002-2005.
 
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During the reign of terror reign, the WWE was in a huge hangover period from the post attitude era and the invasion debacle. It was a downhill period that isn't often talked about. They tried to fix things early by getting Flair in with the co-owner thing. That failed after 2 months. Then they got Hogan and NWO back but that turned out to be temporary. Rock and Austin were gone full-time. They had a huge pool of midcard guys so they split up the brands without enough top main event babyfaces. They tried another shock and brought in Bischoff and then the surprise wore off and they were left with nothing. It was a period where they had ZERO face stars that could be credible champions. They needed to make new stars in that period. Sure they made brock lesnar but he was a heel at the time and always was suited as a heel. Smackdown had to rely on the six to put on great matches and brock being a dominant champion to be watchable. RAW had a less talented roster overall and with only HBK as the main face and HHH as the credible heel. HBK vs HHH was triggered way too early and that left 2003 completely with no direction and HHH had to carry the brand as champion and its never good for a heel to carry the show for such a long time. So I don't know if he buried everyone during the reign, I think it was just a transition period and HHH was the safe option. The only ones that truly suffered were Booker T who obviously should have won at WM19 instead of being made a fool of. Also, RVD was a huge star in waiting but they fed him to HHH as the first challenger and killed his momentum, he would have been huge if they waited longer. HHH should have had his 1st title match against Flair at Unforgiven so he could hold onto the title without hurting anybodys push. And lastly Jericho suffered a lot because he was the second top heel doing some of his best work left with nothing on the show. After the HBK match, he should have been put on Smackdown where he could have been the main event heel for the rest of 2003 and 2004 and get another title run. Seems like he was wasted on RAW from 2002-2005.

This was largely what happened, another part of the brand split allegedly was to keep HHH and Taker separate. Am not sure I entirely agree with the idea that HHH didn't bury everyone during his reign or used his influence, as you say having a heel as the champion wasn't the best idea to carry a brand for such a long period; if you're talking about the safe option, there's Shawn Michaels; however at this point am not sure he wanted to be that guy and on top of that no one truly knew how long he could go for due to his past injury / history but up until that point he hadn't put a foot wrong and there was evidence that he was as good as ever if not even better, but am more willing to accept the idea that Shawn had ruled himself out so perhaps HHH in theory was the safe option but we both can agree he used abused his position and status. RVD is an interesting one lost in time in terms of how hot he was, if you recall he was also ranked PWI no.1 during the early 2000's and had built up quite the resume. The Smackdown roster was stacked and on a big high with Paul Heyman spearheading Creative; but perhaps they could have plucked 1 of the big names from there to take care of RAW; Jericho, Angle or Benoit are not terrible choices; we would see Benoit eventually assume that role regardless. But it is an interesting period, they were in purgatory and that feud between HBK/HHH was driving them almost while the others worked the upper mid card and found themselves in the top spot from time to time.
 
Wow, what a brilliantly written post, so much insight here. I've seen that match several times and I had no idea that they weren't allowed to use the ladders as a weapon.

This has to be the Time Pass POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

Nice one bro, it was really interesting; I think the ruling made the rematch even better then it could have been! definetly worth a re watch if you can
 
Majority of those guys work the upper mid card, Styles and Bryan are exception to the rule because they got over for their shear skill. Brock Lesnar is the world champion and beyond him Roman Reigns is the top guy even without a world title belt, Bray Wyatt is the current WWE champion although not small. It takes a while for Vince to be sold on lightweights it's never easy, but this era the high spot style does have a big influence on consumer demand but Vince's promotion they generally have toned it down and give you a decent overall variety but with that being said there are not as many big guys now as there were back then, after the steroid scandal things changed and even further after what Benoit did. If you tune into AEW who is meant to be the rival, their roster is stacked with legit midgets from top to bottom however.

Yes brock lesnar, braun strowman, roman reigns and even bray wyatt are pretty big guys.
I dont mind watching a few matches with the smaller guys, as they are more athletic and the acrobatic stuff is quite entertaining, but i don't want to watch a whole show of that.
It would be good if they can get some new genuine heavyweights who can work both on the mat and on the mic, the new 'hogan' or the new 'rock' is whats missing in the wwe in my opinion.
 
AJ Styles is washed and needs to retire to prevent hurting his legacy.

2019 has to be the worst year of his career - underwhelming match he hyped up for years with Orton and countless forgettable feuds.

I can't tell you one thing he did outside Orton.
 
AJ Styles is washed and needs to retire to prevent hurting his legacy.

2019 has to be the worst year of his career - underwhelming match he hyped up for years with Orton and countless forgettable feuds.

I can't tell you one thing he did outside Orton.

Styles is widely regarded as the best of his era no one can touch him or fit to be compared to him his legacy is ensured, he now works the upper mid card in his old age and he doesn't want to be in the spot light which doesnt mean he is no good and works an insane schedule over the years, despite that his 2019 been fine and he was involved in one of the best matches of the weekend, more over he is great as a character / respectable and entertaining.

If you want to look at tainted meat in the prime of their career literally proving why they have always been an insult to every wrestler who ever laced a pair of boots look no further then Kenny's performance in a main event spot, his low in-ring IQ in general during this AEW run and the worst promo I have ever heard in my life last week on AEW even though it was pre taped, his gay fans have no answer because he is a booker himself with complete creative control, he is a disgrace
 
[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]


:))) What an absolute joke, from Hard Times with Dusty Rhodes and Austin 3:16 there we have it; the greatest promo in modern history. Seriously, whoever said that guy has a high in-ring IQ should be boiled, how he one even comprehend that is worth being uploaded to you tube let alone aired on national TV is beyond me, the dude is a clown and beyond over rated by his niche hipster fan base. Am not a promo guy :facepalm: we know that but why would you even bring that up lmao

Anyway, I watched Okada v Ospreay; apparently it's meant to be match of the year, it was a good match at best nothing special, who was the heel ? who was the baby or tweener ? what was the story of the match ? are we going to use the same oh wait until he hits him with his finisher angle that other idiot from India was using when describing Okada/Omega as a masterpiece, so Ospreay was 0-3 heading into the match......now at this point I may as well turn this off but as it was a tournament I can justify the two sharing a ring once again, noticeably Ospreay is taped up but those areas are not worked during the match itself, some big myths that they don't use an american formula are debunked immediately; they do some chain wrestling at the start and there are near falls to heighten the match drama towards the end, anyways Ospreay is athletically very gifted you see that straight away but when he went for that 619 which was reversed into a death valley driver it looked very stagey; beyond that in terms of what they did, not a lot to complain beyond that; they hit their usual spots and the finishing stretch was great especially the rainmaker reversal into a spanish fly, but after there were a bunch of "rising from the dead" moments while they hit each others signatures repeatedly and then Okada needed like 1000 rainmakers to KO that little straweight. Overall it was a good match, but match of the year ? what the hell ? I went out of my way to see this after all the hype and was dissapointed big time in that regard. There was nothing to truly get me invested while I was watching or an angle or a narrative within the action itself, their execution was fine, Okada looked good technically and the display of athletics from Ospreay was fantastic but that's no MOTY candidate for me.

Dave at the end of the day is nothing more then a fan, if you actually listen to his podcasts there is no real insight on a technical level when it comes to the matches or his ratings, explain to me who got over, what was the angle; the reason behind each spot and what worked / didn't, he's a fan who has been watching for a while but when it comes to the intricacies of pro wrestling he's a noob, him rating this match highly justifies that even further
 
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[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]


:))) What an absolute joke, from Hard Times with Dusty Rhodes and Austin 3:16 there we have it; the greatest promo in modern history. Seriously, whoever said that guy has a high in-ring IQ should be boiled, how he one even comprehend that is worth being uploaded to you tube let alone aired on national TV is beyond me, the dude is a clown and beyond over rated by his niche hipster fan base. Am not a promo guy :facepalm: we know that but why would you even bring that up lmao

Anyway, I watched Okada v Ospreay; apparently it's meant to be match of the year, it was a good match at best nothing special, who was the heel ? who was the baby or tweener ? what was the story of the match ? are we going to use the same oh wait until he hits him with his finisher angle that other idiot from India was using when describing Okada/Omega as a masterpiece, so Ospreay was 0-3 heading into the match......now at this point I may as well turn this off but as it was a tournament I can justify the two sharing a ring once again, noticeably Ospreay is taped up but those areas are not worked during the match itself, some big myths that they don't use an american formula are debunked immediately; they do some chain wrestling at the start and there are near falls to heighten the match drama towards the end, anyways Ospreay is athletically very gifted you see that straight away but when he went for that 619 which was reversed into a death valley driver it looked very stagey; beyond that in terms of what they did, not a lot to complain beyond that; they hit their usual spots and the finishing stretch was great especially the rainmaker reversal into a spanish fly, but after there were a bunch of "rising from the dead" moments while they hit each others signatures repeatedly and then Okada needed like 1000 rainmakers to KO that little straweight. Overall it was a good match, but match of the year ? what the hell ? I went out of my way to see this after all the hype and was dissapointed big time in that regard. There was nothing to truly get me invested while I was watching or an angle or a narrative within the action itself, their execution was fine, Okada looked good technically and the display of athletics from Ospreay was fantastic but that's no MOTY candidate for me.

Dave at the end of the day is nothing more then a fan, if you actually listen to his podcasts there is no real insight on a technical level when it comes to the matches or his ratings, explain to me who got over, what was the angle; the reason behind each spot and what worked / didn't, he's a fan who has been watching for a while but when it comes to the intricacies of pro wrestling he's a noob, him rating this match highly justifies that even further
Ospreay vs Shingo seems to be the one getting a lot of praise.

That and White-Ibushi in the G1 Finals.
 
Ahh it's been a while since I've been on this forum or even watched WWE actually been so hectic in the past couple months getting a new job and trying to balance the part time work and University at the same time.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] how you doing man and how's WWE these days been busy and out of the loop since about Summerslam really.

Hopefully I can catch up and see what's transpiring in WWE right now over the Christmas break.
 
Ahh it's been a while since I've been on this forum or even watched WWE actually been so hectic in the past couple months getting a new job and trying to balance the part time work and University at the same time.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] how you doing man and how's WWE these days been busy and out of the loop since about Summerslam really.

Hopefully I can catch up and see what's transpiring in WWE right now over the Christmas break.

The build to survivor series was the best in years especially with NXT involved in the brand wars so we had some very interesting invasions across all the brands, NXT has been exceptional since the debut on the USA network and I thoroughly enjoyed the Takeover War Games PPV make sure you watch that; the stars to look out for who are ones for the future are Rhea Ripley and Keith Lee. On RAW they are doing a slow burn on Seth's heel turn, Bryan has sort of turned face on SD with the Fiend leading as the top heel star and enjoying a decent run thus far. I wouldn't miss NXT and selectively watch either RAW or SD, it also seems like they are building to AJ v Randy which is great, the Kabuki Warriors are pretty awesome and Rey Mysterio is being used properly in like forever
 
Ospreay vs Shingo seems to be the one getting a lot of praise.

That and White-Ibushi in the G1 Finals.

I watched that match because I think Dave gave it his highest rating of the year but it didn't do much for me, I will check the others out. At least with White/Ibushi I know one of them will actually attempt to work like a heel.
 
I watched wrestle-kingdom night 1 and 2, am so glad I didn't go to see it live because while the matches were solid they were all meh; Naito doesn't have the aura of Okada, White is a good foreign wrestler but atrocious on the mic, as a character and in terms of legitimacy; Ospreay is too volatile with his offence, he does all these wacky moves and in the process loses so much shape even on simple moves such as the missile drop kick from the top rope. The only worker who looked impressive from the night was Ibushi when he decided to work as the heel in the match. Overall NJPW is seriously hurt with the Tanahashi playing second fiddle and Nakamura their greatest talent working in America. But yeah overall nothing to really get you emotionally invested or suspend your disbelief just a solid raslin show much like most of the modern shtick, you can't really work out who they are trying to get over at times besides the fans....which is hilarious. Am glad AJ Styles has been listed as the Wrestler of the Decade though by the PWI compared to some of the overly rated stars who barely work more then 20 singles matches a year and that too in a one dimensional environment against the top 3 best in-ring workers.; for me personally it would have to be out of Styles, Lesnar and Bryan; you can make a case for either but it would be a shoot out between Lesnar and Styles, I'd be happy picking any three of those guys. [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]

Watched the Royal Rumble PPV last week, boy was I glad to see Edge; who'd have thought in 2020 ai ? I had been more familiar with him in recent times being a regular on Vikings, he had the same grizzled look which was great and was in tremendous condition to; and I think you can't really call yourself a smark or someone who knows the ins and outs of the bizz if you can't appreciate what Lesnar has done between the squared circle in the last 10 years, he is often taken for granted but the man is an old school throw back who restores legitimacy to pro-rasling, no one sells like him or values the fundamentals as much or is able to control an audience in the palm of his hands, his matches incite a reaction like no other and there really isn't anything he can't do, outstanding performance by him he was the Rumble's MVP and the performance was up there with Flair in 92 and HBK in 96. Drew got over like a massive star, Brock sold his finisher as if it were a bullet and even Keith Lee was treated like a big deal; then when Edge came out it never quite sunk in for a few minutes, the angle on RAW to set up his mania match was outstanding to. Mania is looking great, am jealous I wont be there for this one live unlike last year.
 

Get ready to crown our first world champion :afridi

giphy.gif

[MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]
 
AJ Mr. WM lol? :)))

He has his worst matches at WM and that tradition is likely to continue with Taker this year. It'll take a miracle to be decent, AJ is too old and complacent to carry Taker.

Only Okada, Tana, Omega or Ibushi would be able to get a great match out of Taker at this point. But those guys are GOAT tier and WWE doesn't have any GOAT tier wrestlers on their roster.
 
The battle of two washed old men stinking up WM I think.

Both need guys to carry them to a good match at this point.
 
I watched wrestle-kingdom night 1 and 2, am so glad I didn't go to see it live because while the matches were solid they were all meh; Naito doesn't have the aura of Okada, White is a good foreign wrestler but atrocious on the mic, as a character and in terms of legitimacy; Ospreay is too volatile with his offence, he does all these wacky moves and in the process loses so much shape even on simple moves such as the missile drop kick from the top rope. The only worker who looked impressive from the night was Ibushi when he decided to work as the heel in the match. Overall NJPW is seriously hurt with the Tanahashi playing second fiddle and Nakamura their greatest talent working in America. But yeah overall nothing to really get you emotionally invested or suspend your disbelief just a solid raslin show much like most of the modern shtick, you can't really work out who they are trying to get over at times besides the fans....which is hilarious. Am glad AJ Styles has been listed as the Wrestler of the Decade though by the PWI compared to some of the overly rated stars who barely work more then 20 singles matches a year and that too in a one dimensional environment against the top 3 best in-ring workers.; for me personally it would have to be out of Styles, Lesnar and Bryan; you can make a case for either but it would be a shoot out between Lesnar and Styles, I'd be happy picking any three of those guys. [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]

Watched the Royal Rumble PPV last week, boy was I glad to see Edge; who'd have thought in 2020 ai ? I had been more familiar with him in recent times being a regular on Vikings, he had the same grizzled look which was great and was in tremendous condition to; and I think you can't really call yourself a smark or someone who knows the ins and outs of the bizz if you can't appreciate what Lesnar has done between the squared circle in the last 10 years, he is often taken for granted but the man is an old school throw back who restores legitimacy to pro-rasling, no one sells like him or values the fundamentals as much or is able to control an audience in the palm of his hands, his matches incite a reaction like no other and there really isn't anything he can't do, outstanding performance by him he was the Rumble's MVP and the performance was up there with Flair in 92 and HBK in 96. Drew got over like a massive star, Brock sold his finisher as if it were a bullet and even Keith Lee was treated like a big deal; then when Edge came out it never quite sunk in for a few minutes, the angle on RAW to set up his mania match was outstanding to. Mania is looking great, am jealous I wont be there for this one live unlike last year.

AJ Styles has been medicore for a couple of years now.

You hate to see it, he's washed. Should have retired when he could still go.

Can't even remember the last time he had an actual MOTYC.
 
Absolutely annoyed that Goldberg beat the fiend. The fiend has been built up for a year and than a part time comes and wins the tittle. How are you supposed to take him seriously when Vince is more bothered about selling Wrestlemania tickets than protecting his talent.
 
Absolutely annoyed that Goldberg beat the fiend. The fiend has been built up for a year and than a part time comes and wins the tittle. How are you supposed to take him seriously when Vince is more bothered about selling Wrestlemania tickets than protecting his talent.

He did same against Kevin Owens when he was Universal Champion.
But no surprise it is Vince.
 
He did same against Kevin Owens when he was Universal Champion.
But no surprise it is Vince.

The fiend is over with the crowd which makes the move more annoying.

Roman will beat Goldberg at Wrestlemania and probably feud with the fiend afterwards.
 
The fiend is over with the crowd which makes the move more annoying.

Roman will beat Goldberg at Wrestlemania and probably feud with the fiend afterwards.

At this point a win over Berg would do more for The Fiend then Reigns. I would have booked Fiend v Berg at mania with Fiend going over and in contrast have Reigns v Cena at mania instead. It is a shame, Bray is probably the worst victim of WWE's 50/50 booking, even despite him being their best live event draw and merch seller for 2019
 
Speaking of Styles he is the Wrestler of the Decade as per the prestigious PWI and not ladyboy from Japan who is protected in that territory working the same in ring technicians in about 20 singles contests per year, cowards :mv
 
Mania shaping up to be a decent card overall

Brock v Drew
Orton v Edge
Becky v Bazzler
Cena v Fiend - These two always had tremendous chemistry I saw them work during a live event in person once and it was fantastic

Reigns v Berg - This could be ok if they book this smartly similar to Broid v Berg at Mania a few years ago, but Berg is wasted at this point tbh he can barely hit any of his signatures, for his age dont get me wrong outstanding but he can't work longer then 2-3 mins without gassing, they need to have him cut all power moves and just rely on spears, submissions, strikes and make it a no dq to

Styles v Taker is a dream match, Taker old now but for that reason Styles or Bryan are perfect opponents for him to do a 10-15 min match

I really like Angel Garza what a talent fantastic the swift transition he has made to the main roster, Andrade v Rey v Garza v Humberto in a 4 way for the US title would be epic, maybe throw a ladder in their :afridi
 
At this point a win over Berg would do more for The Fiend then Reigns. I would have booked Fiend v Berg at mania with Fiend going over and in contrast have Reigns v Cena at mania instead. It is a shame, Bray is probably the worst victim of WWE's 50/50 booking, even despite him being their best live event draw and merch seller for 2019

The fined should have beaten Goldberg. Than faced Regins at WM and gone over. Regins role is to make others look good which he said himself. So he doesn't really need the tittle.
 
The funniest thing about Goldberg is he is out of breath after a match and that he can't even hit his finisher without botching it. How can people take this guy seriously as a champion?:)))
 
The fined should have beaten Goldberg. Than faced Regins at WM and gone over. Regins role is to make others look good which he said himself. So he doesn't really need the tittle.

He has mostly worked the upper mid card in recent times, randomly thrusting him in a title match doesn't make sense without a build or organic storyline. Berg can't work but he still has that name value which they exploiting, the W or title wont do Reigns much. Reigns v Fiend will get booked post mania now, this is the route they gone with to attract casuals with the availability of Berg, manias these days barring a few matches fail to live up to past events in-ring wise on the whole just a spectacle and way too long, Takeovers on the same weekend are on another level though
 
Liking this Ruthless Aggression docuseries on the Network.

I find watching shoot interviews and documentaries far more interesting than the modern day product which suffers from overscripting, bad booking and too many high spots.
 
He has mostly worked the upper mid card in recent times, randomly thrusting him in a title match doesn't make sense without a build or organic storyline. Berg can't work but he still has that name value which they exploiting, the W or title wont do Reigns much. Reigns v Fiend will get booked post mania now, this is the route they gone with to attract casuals with the availability of Berg, manias these days barring a few matches fail to live up to past events in-ring wise on the whole just a spectacle and way too long, Takeovers on the same weekend are on another level though

No one will be interested in Goldberg when they realise he can even do his finisher.

Vince is far too interested in people who watch now and than. Then the people who watch every week.
 
Liking this Ruthless Aggression docuseries on the Network.

I find watching shoot interviews and documentaries far more interesting than the modern day product which suffers from overscripting, bad booking and too many high spots.

It's brilliant, saw episode 1 thus far. RA era for me was superior then the AE era in terms of quality story telling for the most part and enthralling TV, I remember the days where the go home show before a PPV was so hot and they really tried to sell you the event and competitors; in the network era unfortunately they have become too compatible. Also, people can say what they like about Jim Cornette but he was such a visionary when it came to the industry, the work he did in OVW to groom the likes of Lesnar, Batista, Orton and Cena to name a few was fantastic
 
No one will be interested in Goldberg when they realise he can even do his finisher.

Vince is far too interested in people who watch now and than. Then the people who watch every week.

People will criticise him like they are now but when he shows up on RAW, SD or makes his entrance they all still pop and the casual will tune in for the billing "Berg v Reigns" / purchase mania and the E sell that hard for their show piece event, part of it is nostalgia and the other is a big failure on WWE's part in not creating massive stars outside Cena
 
It's brilliant, saw episode 1 thus far. RA era for me was superior then the AE era in terms of quality story telling for the most part and enthralling TV, I remember the days where the go home show before a PPV was so hot and they really tried to sell you the event and competitors; in the network era unfortunately they have become too compatible. Also, people can say what they like about Jim Cornette but he was such a visionary when it came to the industry, the work he did in OVW to groom the likes of Lesnar, Batista, Orton and Cena to name a few was fantastic

Episode 3 is the best one so far. Episode 1 was rather dishonest - they claimed they rebranded as WWE in 2002 because VKM wanted a shakeup when in reality they lost the lawsuit to the Wildlife Fund.

Cornette definitely gave youngsters a good grounding. Whilst I don't agree with Jim Cornette on some things (he made some awful comments on Muslims after the Paris attacks a few years ago which he apologised for) but man is he entertaining, has kept an incredible amount of notes and research, and makes so much sense on the current day product.
 
Episode 3 is the best one so far. Episode 1 was rather dishonest - they claimed they rebranded as WWE in 2002 because VKM wanted a shakeup when in reality they lost the lawsuit to the Wildlife Fund.

Cornette definitely gave youngsters a good grounding. Whilst I don't agree with Jim Cornette on some things (he made some awful comments on Muslims after the Paris attacks a few years ago which he apologised for) but man is he entertaining, has kept an incredible amount of notes and research, and makes so much sense on the current day product.

I can't remember it now aha but that does ring a bell they did touch a fair bit on the re-branding part, think they covered the invasion angle a bit but highlighted the biggest WCW stars were already tied up in those guaranteed contracts; I think that was misleading to because it conceals the deficiencies of the creative around 2001. I do think though removing F was a blessing in disguise for them as a business and Vince always seemed to want to move away from being seen as a good ol raslin company.

In that regard I give Jim the benefit of the doubt, he does say some dumb things but rarely apologies to lol he is very vocal against Trump's policies and especially wants more gun control in the USA; when it comes to the wrestling insight and his abilities as a booker he learned from the best at Mid-South wrestling under cow boy Bill Watts who was very strict when it came to kayfabe; you see it in Jim but these blokes were very shrewd when it came to making stars as well and we'd see that from Jim at SMW as well. For the most part do agree with his views on the modern product especially compared to Meltzer, hard to sometimes see if he's working people or genuinely believes the garbage he spews.
 
Meltzer called Kenny's match the Bucks the GOAT tag match in America.

Got check it out. Hardly surprising though, he is considered the greatest North American wrestler of all time.
 
Been finding carving some time out to watch WWE on the Road to Wrestlemania since the Royal Rumble and boy was that Rumble good. I'm so glad I watched it live it was simply fantastic, especially the Men's Rumble Match just great booking. The card from top-bottom was solid first the Corbin/Reigns match was a great way to kick the show off and get the crowd buzzing. The women's rumble was also great, my only issue was Charlotte winning like come on, I was really really rooting for Shayna at the end there. Wyatt/Bryan was excellent as expected. But the highlight of the show was easily the Rumble match. It wasn't a traditionally booked Rumble however, that was the best part of it WWE creative actually did something outside the box instead of following the same generic formula. Brock's performance was just brilliant. When Edge returned I screamed the roof off my house though, like I did not expect that made my day 1000x better seeing a legend like him return. The right guy also won unlike the womens rumble making for a SPLENDID Rumble one of the best rumbles in a while I'd say.

Supershowdown was solid as well loved the return of Taker hope he has a match at Mania. Although I really wanted to see AJ and Taker have a real match as I think if there's anyone on the planet that can give Taker a good match right now it's AJ. They may be saving the match for Mania though dare I say? Goldberg beating the Fiend was a big shock to me though.

Looking forward to the Elimination Chamber now hoping my guy Roman can get that win and finally win back the title he never lost. He's worked so hard since he's came back no one deserves that win for the title at Mania more than him.

Also how good has the Orton/Edge feud been without Edge even there. When Randy cares and wants to put effort into a feud, oh man is he good. You can really tell though, especially at this point in his career when he's excited for a feud. Looking forward to the match at Mania between these two it's going to be great.

Oh yeah and John Cena vs The Fiend, so looking forward to that match and the feud between these two it's been too long since Cena's had a feud in WWE so I'm so looking forward to this. I'm really getting frustrated though I wanna see Cena win #17!
 
Mania shaping up to be a decent card overall

Brock v Drew
Orton v Edge
Becky v Bazzler
Cena v Fiend - These two always had tremendous chemistry I saw them work during a live event in person once and it was fantastic

Reigns v Berg - This could be ok if they book this smartly similar to Broid v Berg at Mania a few years ago, but Berg is wasted at this point tbh he can barely hit any of his signatures, for his age dont get me wrong outstanding but he can't work longer then 2-3 mins without gassing, they need to have him cut all power moves and just rely on spears, submissions, strikes and make it a no dq to

Styles v Taker is a dream match, Taker old now but for that reason Styles or Bryan are perfect opponents for him to do a 10-15 min match

I really like Angel Garza what a talent fantastic the swift transition he has made to the main roster, Andrade v Rey v Garza v Humberto in a 4 way for the US title would be epic, maybe throw a ladder in their :afridi

Who do you think Triple H is going to face this year? I wanted AJ Styles vs HHH previously but now it's looking like fingers crossed hopefully we'll be getting Styles vs Taker.

Personally I would love to see Triple H vs Adam Cole that would be a great match and great story.

As for Reigns vs Goldberg that's just more meant to be Roman's moment and his payoff for all the hard work he's put in since returning from cancer. No one deserves to win that title more than him.

Would love to see a ladder match open the show man they did it for Mania 31 and 32 for 33 it didn't open the show it was like the 2nd or 3rd match with the Hardyz return and man those ladder matches at Mania are always awesome. They haven't done it since 33 though so really hoping we get one this year!
 
Who do you think Triple H is going to face this year? I wanted AJ Styles vs HHH previously but now it's looking like fingers crossed hopefully we'll be getting Styles vs Taker.

Personally I would love to see Triple H vs Adam Cole that would be a great match and great story.

As for Reigns vs Goldberg that's just more meant to be Roman's moment and his payoff for all the hard work he's put in since returning from cancer. No one deserves to win that title more than him.

Would love to see a ladder match open the show man they did it for Mania 31 and 32 for 33 it didn't open the show it was like the 2nd or 3rd match with the Hardyz return and man those ladder matches at Mania are always awesome. They haven't done it since 33 though so really hoping we get one this year!

On paper perhaps that match certainly would have more appeal from the POV of Darth Burius being closer to his prime compared to Taker but AJ Styles given his elite all round in-ring ability is being used in these stellar events the same way Shawn was used towards the end of his run, you'd want your best in-ring performer to on paper go up against other raslers regarded the best in the company, however only Japan protects their limited performers in such a fashion, this is why Styles was trusted with the likes of a past it Jericho and Shane at mania producing excellent performances as did HBK against the likes of Vince and a Ric Flair he carried till the end, it may not seem this way now but these are the sort of scenarios that elevate your legacy beyond comprehension because lets be frank having singles matches against the same opponent with a similar sort of skill set is a cake walk you just show up really. For if we take out the latino stars who are rising and see them all facing off in a 4 way for the US title, then that leaves me Ricochet, Aleicster Black who Vince has always been very high on and Daniel Bryan; I'd say these 3 are the top HHH opponents and you can't go wrong with either of them. I think Adam Cole will drop the belt to Velveteen Dream at Takeover during the WM weekend then move to the main roster, also think it would be a little too premature to do that match now.

Everyone is complaining and I understand it, it's WWE's unfortunate booking and failure; lets be frank, no one compares to Berg's star power and he just looks the part compared to the likes of Rollins, most the new crop look like little children to be honest, only a rare few are able to punch above that due to their unique skills, even with 1 move he is able to do properly the spear; Berg the brand is business for them, it would be a travesty if Reigns does not go over, the match should be under 5 minutes and everyone should pray Berg doesn't gas during his ring walk. Reigns may well deserve that title but the WWE have failed him and I think that they are making a mistake just putting the belt randomly on him, get some damn baby face heat on him; don't make fans cheer for him purely because they don't want the title on Berg because after that he goes back to getting them mixed reactions etc but he isn't exactly John Cena, this is why I feel the Fiend should have been champ well past mania he is clearly the bigger draw

Yes maybe we will get that damn ladder!

Btw I called this before it was even official by PWI purely by adding all his rating points from 2010-2019:

AJ-Styles-PWI-Wrestler-of-the-Decade-1093-1.jpg


:bow:

All the haters right now who support creeps in All Elite Raslin and New Japan Blow Up Dolls:

messi.jpg
 
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On paper perhaps that match certainly would have more appeal from the POV of Darth Burius being closer to his prime compared to Taker but AJ Styles given his elite all round in-ring ability is being used in these stellar events the same way Shawn was used towards the end of his run, you'd want your best in-ring performer to on paper go up against other raslers regarded the best in the company, however only Japan protects their limited performers in such a fashion, this is why Styles was trusted with the likes of a past it Jericho and Shane at mania producing excellent performances as did HBK against the likes of Vince and a Ric Flair he carried till the end, it may not seem this way now but these are the sort of scenarios that elevate your legacy beyond comprehension because lets be frank having singles matches against the same opponent with a similar sort of skill set is a cake walk you just show up really. For if we take out the latino stars who are rising and see them all facing off in a 4 way for the US title, then that leaves me Ricochet, Aleicster Black who Vince has always been very high on and Daniel Bryan; I'd say these 3 are the top HHH opponents and you can't go wrong with either of them. I think Adam Cole will drop the belt to Velveteen Dream at Takeover during the WM weekend then move to the main roster, also think it would be a little too premature to do that match now.

Everyone is complaining and I understand it, it's WWE's unfortunate booking and failure; lets be frank, no one compares to Berg's star power and he just looks the part compared to the likes of Rollins, most the new crop look like little children to be honest, only a rare few are able to punch above that due to their unique skills, even with 1 move he is able to do properly the spear; Berg the brand is business for them, it would be a travesty if Reigns does not go over, the match should be under 5 minutes and everyone should pray Berg doesn't gas during his ring walk. Reigns may well deserve that title but the WWE have failed him and I think that they are making a mistake just putting the belt randomly on him, get some damn baby face heat on him; don't make fans cheer for him purely because they don't want the title on Berg because after that he goes back to getting them mixed reactions etc but he isn't exactly John Cena, this is why I feel the Fiend should have been champ well past mania he is clearly the bigger draw

Yes maybe we will get that damn ladder!

Btw I called this before it was even official by PWI purely by adding all his rating points from 2010-2019:

AJ-Styles-PWI-Wrestler-of-the-Decade-1093-1.jpg


:bow:

All the haters right now who support creeps in All Elite Raslin and New Japan Blow Up Dolls:

messi.jpg

So happy that AJ won that wrestler of the decade as you know I'm a huge fan of his. He's easily the best wrestler of this era no one else comes close in my view.

Looking forward to the elimination chamber tonight, hopefully it's a good one!
 
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Okada and Tanahashi were robbed.

Doesn't matter as one of them will get the more prestigious WON Wrestler of the decade award.
 
Also congrats to Kenny Omega for breaking the Meltzer scale once again and achieving the highest rated tag match in history.

He now holds the highest rated singles match and highest rated tag match of all time.

GOAT man GOAT man doing GOAT things.

Expecting another 2* match from the 2* fraud tonight [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

C6h3eQQVsAAy1LU.jpg
 
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