The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

Punk? Vince could not see the winds of change back in 2002 let alone in 2020. Back then , it was clear that the wrestling industry needed to evolve, tap new markets and change the old way of doing business but Vince was blind to it . Just look at the step motherly treatment given to Smackdown back then despite the fact that it was killing RAW in terms of better storylines, superior wrestling , better ratings etc. Vince still insisted on boring us to death with a HHH centred RAW when clearly nobody cared about it . Even WWE documentaries (which are extremely biased) now admit that Smackdown was a much better show although they'll never acknowledge that it was Vince, Brian gerwitz and hhh being absolutely clueless /political.

I was alluding to the post PG period which was driven by the Benoit incident, things were largely stale until Punk made things a bit interesting. Yeah, back in 2002 they were in limbo with Austin winding down and Rock heading for greener pastures; the class of OVW and the great work of Jim Cornette / Paul Heyman effectively saved them. Triple H's reign of terror was largely a ratings killer, I however enjoyed the angles which involved the redemption of HBK and Benoit though; also Evolution gave Batista and Orton some decent exposure to although the faction was booked way too strong; but I saw Mick Foley / Flair do more for Orton then Darth Burius.

 

[shaz619]

Can't wait too see Mania later on today I have heard so many great things about it. I am especially looking forward to Taker vs Styles I heard it was a great match.

It was a great match, stole the show; the wrestler of the decade is the only one in recent times who managed to give Taker a match he deserves. However, was that match superior to THE GREATEST MATCH EVER!!!

Man I feel for both Edge and Orton, no one deserves that billing or pressure heading into a friggin match. But if am honest with you I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a classic, arguably the best singles Orton match I have ever seen; certainly one of the best from both men in their careers, excellent flow, pacing and in-ring psychology / story-telling, in a stadium it would have been nuts! I didn't mind the addition of crowd noise, but I loved the match would watch it again. Unfortunate Edge was injured, but an insane effort from him with the ring rust and all, timing / rhythm were all there and he seems to have more foot speed then before.

Also from last week I loved the heavyweight clash between Lashley and Drew, Bryan / Styles put on a MOTY candidate as well in their sleep; it was a damn clinic and insanely good considering they had little audience and 3 commercial breaks to work through, but what more can expect from a wrestler who is arguably regarded as the best technical wrestler in history and the best wrestler of the decade

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=113824]Nikhil_cric[/MENTION] did you watch Edge v Orton from Backlash ? what did you think ? Edge returned after a decade of inactivity, story going into the match was that while Edge triumphed at mania in a death match which had all the blows and whistles; could he possibly keep up with Orton in a singles match where he wouldn't be so protected, Edge would have to deal with that, his own internal doubt which Orton plays up and the match pressure itself due to the crazy billing.

Bryan / Styles from Smackdown last week is another must see and Drew v Lashely from Backlash for the WWE title

 

[Nikhil_cric]

[MENTION=113824]Nikhil_cric[/MENTION] did you watch Edge v Orton from Backlash ? what did you think ? Edge returned after a decade of inactivity, story going into the match was that while Edge triumphed at mania in a death match which had all the blows and whistles; could he possibly keep up with Orton in a singles match where he wouldn't be so protected, Edge would have to deal with that, his own internal doubt which Orton plays up and the match pressure itself due to the crazy billing.

Bryan / Styles from Smackdown last week is another must see and Drew v Lashely from Backlash for the WWE title

Yeah I saw Mania. Honestly, while it was a good match I'm not sure why Edge wanted to return as a wrestler after being out for 9 years! I wasn't surprised to see he had gotten injured. Edge and Randy had great chemistry in the ring so I expected it to be decent as long as Edge could work at a decent pace.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I saw Mania. Honestly, while it was a good match I'm not sure why Edge wanted to return as a wrestler after being out for 9 years! I wasn't surprised to see he had gotten injured. Edge and Randy had great chemistry in the ring so I expected it to be decent as long as Edge could work at a decent pace.

Watch the match from Backlash to I enjoyed it a great deal and tbh you are right, there is no reason for him to return with family and all, also a great run for him as an actor getting gigs with Haven and Vikings more recently; but I think he returned purely because his career was ended prematurely and he wants to end it on his terms, he went mountain bike riding and fell; took a bump which showed him that maybe he can do this potentially again. He is in tremendous condition, arguably among the best shape I've ever seen him in; maybe not as ripped when he was with E and C ; but certainly more so then his run as a main eventer, a lot lighter on his feet and the speed is there. But perhaps they should have eased him into these high level matches.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Watch the match from Backlash to I enjoyed it a great deal and tbh you are right, there is no reason for him to return with family and all, also a great run for him as an actor getting gigs with Haven and Vikings more recently; but I think he returned purely because his career was ended prematurely and he wants to end it on his terms, he went mountain bike riding and fell; took a bump which showed him that maybe he can do this potentially again. He is in tremendous condition, arguably among the best shape I've ever seen him in; maybe not as ripped when he was with E and C ; but certainly more so then his run as a main eventer, a lot lighter on his feet and the speed is there. But perhaps they should have eased him into these high level matches.

Edge has admitted to using steroids and j think he and Christian juices during E&C. His best work for me was between 2001-2003 when he had his first singles run. I think after that major neck surgery , he wasn't the same . Yeah i'll watch the match from backlash over this weekend probably. I heard it's a good one .

 

[shaz619]

Edge has admitted to using steroids and j think he and Christian juices during E&C. His best work for me was between 2001-2003 when he had his first singles run. I think after that major neck surgery , he wasn't the same . Yeah i'll watch the match from backlash over this weekend probably. I heard it's a good one .

Yeah you could see it in the abs, would be surprised not to find someone who didn't juice on some level from that time period. The only guy who I wont suspect is CM Punk due to his personal beliefs. I enjoyed Edge's run as a heel as well when they put the WWE title and WHC's on him, the feuds with Cena and Taker were great and the team with Orton. Is arguably the most ripped I have seen him since that 01-03 period you mentioned, defo check it out worth a watch the backlash match

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Roman Reigns is now a heel and a Paul Heyman guy.

 

[Hasan123]

I'm so excited to see what happens with Roman Regins alongside Paul Heyman.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Roman Reigns is now a heel and a Paul Heyman guy.

Oh ma gawd in Heaven lols Roman Reigns is turning heel finally! when he returned at SS he was talking trash like a heel @ The Fiend, this has been a brilliant play from the WWE creative for a long time! The Fiend is the no.1 merch seller at the moment and increasingly popular so why not turn him face ? Fiend will be the no.1 baby face with Reigns as the no.1 heel and Braun has turned as well and will be the supporting act as another heel for the top face (fiend) to work with

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Oh ma gawd in Heaven lols Roman Reigns is turning heel finally! when he returned at SS he was talking trash like a heel @ The Fiend, this has been a brilliant play from the WWE creative for a long time! The Fiend is the no.1 merch seller at the moment and increasingly popular so why not turn him face ? Fiend will be the no.1 baby face with Reigns as the no.1 heel and Braun has turned as well and will be the supporting act as another heel for the top face (fiend) to work with

There are also talks of Bo Dallas, Alexa Bliss, Strowman and Abyss(rumour) joining the Fiend Family.

 

[shaz619]

There are also talks of Bo Dallas, Alexa Bliss, Strowman and Abyss(rumour) joining the Fiend Family.

That's very interesting but if Bray is going to be the top face I find it unlikely unless it will be some kid of a tweener faction, I guess that is a possibility if Reigns is not going to completely turn heel but at this point it doesn't seem like it I reckon

 

[Hasan123]

There are also talks of Bo Dallas, Alexa Bliss, Strowman and Abyss(rumour) joining the Fiend Family.

Lol where did you read this? This would actually be interesting.

 

[QalandarFan]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what do you think of the heel turn of Roman?

I’m loving every second of it so far, I remember watching Summerslam first time I sat down to watch WWE live in a while and oh man Roman’s return would blown the roof off the place had there been an audience. I knew from the very moment being a pretty big Roman fan that he turned heel even before we saw him allign with Paul. The only complaint I have is this should of been done with an actual audience in place. Can you imagine the P O P if Roman Turned heel at Wrestlemania 37 or the Rumble with an actual audience. Would have been the biggest pop since Foley winning the title imo, the place would of gone bonkers. However, ratings have been down and I guess if you wanna draw ratings while competing with a packer Fall season with NBA Playoffs, NFL, and MLB all going on simultaneously you turn Roman heel.

Also Roman winning the championship he never lost was just perfect, the contract signing was a bit weird, but WWE told us with that match that WWE is going full on with the heel turn, which is the right thing to do. I think it’s going to be interesting seeing the dynamic between Brock and Roman now, however, once Brock eventually returns. I would really like to see them form a tag team when they’re both together and just wreck the whole roster.

 

[QalandarFan]

I'm so excited to see what happens with Roman Regins alongside Paul Heyman.

I really want to see a Roman/Brock tag team at survivor series or something. I imagine both of them will be holding both the world titles together at some point. It could be like the Two Man Power Trip all over again!

 

[Hasan123]

I really want to see a Roman/Brock tag team at survivor series or something. I imagine both of them will be holding both the world titles together at some point. It could be like the Two Man Power Trip all over again!

Don't think Brock suits being in a tag team lol.

Don't want Brock to wrestle Roman again as they have faced each other too much.

 

[Firebat]

I lost interest about a year ago, and haven't really been following it. Have I been missing a lot? Is it worth me returning?

 

[shokz1408]

Would love to see roman v Brock now with Roman as heel. With Paul Heyman in the mix, it makes things very interesting! And if he ended up siding with reigns to beat Lesnar, man that would be something.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what do you think of the heel turn of Roman?

I’m loving every second of it so far, I remember watching Summerslam first time I sat down to watch WWE live in a while and oh man Roman’s return would blown the roof off the place had there been an audience. I knew from the very moment being a pretty big Roman fan that he turned heel even before we saw him allign with Paul. The only complaint I have is this should of been done with an actual audience in place. Can you imagine the P O P if Roman Turned heel at Wrestlemania 37 or the Rumble with an actual audience. Would have been the biggest pop since Foley winning the title imo, the place would of gone bonkers. However, ratings have been down and I guess if you wanna draw ratings while competing with a packer Fall season with NBA Playoffs, NFL, and MLB all going on simultaneously you turn Roman heel.

Also Roman winning the championship he never lost was just perfect, the contract signing was a bit weird, but WWE told us with that match that WWE is going full on with the heel turn, which is the right thing to do. I think it’s going to be interesting seeing the dynamic between Brock and Roman now, however, once Brock eventually returns. I would really like to see them form a tag team when they’re both together and just wreck the whole roster.

I thought it all has been done very expertly and the booking this far has Heyman written all over it! he always works best at the top of the card where his creativice juices be flowing. I see what you mean with a crowd and it makes for a pivotal moment but overall I think they have executed this brilliantly, with audiences there is the downside of such a move recieving a massive pop as you and this defeats the purpose of a heel turn; with the thunderdome environment and return to arenas revitalising the programming, they have managed to get heat on Reigns by having more control over the atmosphere, the big chance in facial expressions / attitude and trash talk; note how he he was shooting on both Braun and Bray when he returned at SS! then he is booked to win a triple threat world title match with under hand tactics which were implied to have been enforced by Heyman the last miniute contract signing to gain max advantage after Fiend and Braun had destoryed each other to bits in great impact match, and not only that; he took the title from the heavily popular Fiend who had won it just days earlier! I can't have imagine a much better scenario to get heat on Reigns during his turn imo

Definetly mate with the ratings suffering in lockdown and the competition with other sports this has been a great play from WWE, I wonder if they would show such impetus were it not for such severe dips but being dynamic creatively and open minded is bound to generate a lot more interest, I enjoyed Payback solid show. Speaking of the two man power trip, that would be bery interesting! considering both are heels and it would be possible now but here is another possibility, a face turn for Lesnar!

 

[shaz619]

WWE looking strong on RAW with Drew, the Mysterios, Rollins, Orton and Keith Lee then on SD you have Fiend, Reignd, Braun with upper mid supported by AJ, Jeff, a returning Sami Zayn and pushes for Riddle, Corbin and Big E great stuff. With the women Asuka and the golden role models have been fantasic

 

[sweep_shot]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I have watched some clips yesterday after a very long time. I am thinking of returning to watching WWE.

I have to admit WWE has changed to the point it is almost unrecognizable. Many new faces.

How would you rate present WWE? Is it watchable now?

 

[andy0204]

Watched SmackDown must say Roman looks very vicious heel,I have never seen Paul Heyman getting sacred even when Lesnar attacked his opponents.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I hear that as United States Champion, Bobby Lashley is working on a new finishing move called “The American Way”, where he sets up a base on my property, destroys my home, has his friends take whatever is left, then says he did it for freedom & makes me out to be the bad guy. <a href="https://t.co/ofQaS3V9mX">https://t.co/ofQaS3V9mX</a></p>— Sami Zayn (@SamiZayn) <a href="https://twitter.com/SamiZayn/status/1329503093294239747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Interesting.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Did anyone see WWE TLC? Namely, Randy Orton vs. The Fiend? Pretty polarizing stuff the WWE is doing, I have to say.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I have watched some clips yesterday after a very long time. I am thinking of returning to watching WWE.

I have to admit WWE has changed to the point it is almost unrecognizable. Many new faces.

How would you rate present WWE? Is it watchable now?

Do it. I did the same thing recently. Returned to WWE after 8 years. There are plenty of guys who are worth seeing and though everything is not perfect there always seems to be one genuinely good storyline around.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Watched SmackDown must say Roman looks very vicious heel,I have never seen Paul Heyman getting sacred even when Lesnar attacked his opponents.

Roman as heel is outstanding. Everything from his promos, mannerisms, behavior. I think Heyman deserves alot of credit for making Reigns from a poor man's John Cena to a badass heel. On top of that, KO has really put him over as top heel in this feud.

 

[sweep_shot]

Do it. I did the same thing recently. Returned to WWE after 8 years. There are plenty of guys who are worth seeing and though everything is not perfect there always seems to be one genuinely good storyline around.

Thanks.

Roman Reigns definitely looks promising. I see some of the TNA guys came in. AJ Styles is one.

I can't say I like modern WWE as much as older WWE but I am giving it a try.

 

[Realromeo]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I have watched some clips yesterday after a very long time. I am thinking of returning to watching WWE.

I have to admit WWE has changed to the point it is almost unrecognizable. Many new faces.

How would you rate present WWE? Is it watchable now?

WWE Raw recorded its worst ever viewership rating last week. I tried to watch wwe few times over the last several years and every time I tried, it was worse than the rest. I tried it 2 months ago and man my brain became fried. Watch it at your own risk.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thanks.

Roman Reigns definitely looks promising. I see some of the TNA guys came in. AJ Styles is one.

I can't say I like modern WWE as much as older WWE but I am giving it a try.

I was very much in the same camp as you a few months ago when I was rewatching the old Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression Pay-Per-Views. And while wrestling will never be as good as it was back then I think its still worth watching because of certain talents.

Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Drew McIntyre to name a few. Randy is a veteran now and still at the top of his game. And obviously AJ too who is an excellent in-ring performer.

If you can, and have the time, I would suggest catching up with the PPVs from recent years aswell.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

WWE Raw recorded its worst ever viewership rating last week. I tried to watch wwe few times over the last several years and every time I tried, it was worse than the rest. I tried it 2 months ago and man my brain became fried. Watch it at your own risk.

Raw is just too long. A weekly 3 hour show is just too much.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Plz tell me The Fiend will come back. Some people online were alluding to WWE killing off his character and that is something I am not ready to accept

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I only watch the highlights of WWE and AEW these days. They are mostly 30-35 mins long.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I only watch the highlights of WWE and AEW these days. They are mostly 30-35 mins long.

I tried getting into AEW but besides a few of guys I largely disliked it. Too many no name indie darlings and WWE rejects, on top of that far too often you have bad booking.

Moxley is by far the best thing about it. And Jericho and MJF are great aswell. I was liking Cody at the start but he has just ruined his character imo.

 

[Firebat]

Wrestler Brodie Lee - fka WWE's Luke Harper - dies at 41

Wrestler Brodie Lee - who previously appeared in the WWE under the name Luke Harper - has died aged 41.

The father-of-two, whose real name was Jonathan Huber, died on Boxing Day "after a hard fought battle with a non-COVID related lung issue", according to his wife.

Amanda Huber, herself an ex-wrestler who performed under the name Synndy Synn, posted a series of photos of her husband on Instagram, showing him both in the ring and at home with his family.

She wrote: "My best friend died today. I never wanted to write out those words. My heart is broken.

"The world saw him as the amazing @brodielee (fka Luke Harper) but he was my best friend, my husband, and the greatest father you would ever meet.

"No words can express the love I feel or how broken I am right now. He passed surrounded by love ones after a hard fought battle with a non Covid related lung issue."

She thanked the doctors and nurses who she said cared for him at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida.

After fighting on the independent wrestling circuit, Huber joined WWE as The Wyatt Family enforcer Luke Harper, debuting on NXT.

Performing for WWE from 2012 to 2019, he won both the Intercontinental Championship and the SmackDown Tag Team Title at WrestleMania 34.

WWE payed tribute to Huber on its Twitter page, extending condolences to his family, friends and fans, and retweeting messages mourning his loss.

WWE wrestlers including Randy Orton, John Cena and the Bella Twins also payed tribute to the star.

Huber joined All Elite Wrestling earlier this year, fighting under the name Brodie Lee, but had been forced to take time away from the ring due to illness.

One of Huber's final Instagram posts was a poster promoting his fight with Orange Cassidy in October.

Huber leaves behind Amanda, his wife of 12 years, and their two young sons Brodie and Nolan.

https://news.sky.com/story/wrestler-brodie-lee-fka-wwes-luke-harper-dies-at-41-12173445

 

[Firebat]

41 years old, so young. Leaving behind 2 young sons too, heart-breaking.

The hay-day of the Wyatt Family were some of my best recent memories of watching WWE.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Absolutely shocking. He was just 41. RIP.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Plz tell me The Fiend will come back. Some people online were alluding to WWE killing off his character and that is something I am not ready to accept

I agree with you I think it would be hard to accept, but if they do indeed kill him off; then there has to be something even bigger to replace the Fiend. For example a super over baby face like surfer Sting turning into Crow Sting. Fiend remains incredibly popular and the merch sales have been a big coup for the WWE as well, so part of me feels as though it would be a surprise, so am not entirely convinced they will kill him off but if they did, am sure they would have even bigger plans for Bray Wyatt who is a creative genius and a master at character work / development

 

[shaz619]

41 years old, so young. Leaving behind 2 young sons too, heart-breaking.

The hay-day of the Wyatt Family were some of my best recent memories of watching WWE.

RIP, I had the pleasure of watching him live in the UK; for a bloke his size he was incredibly athletic and agile, my favourite moment of his in-ring career will always be the triumph over Ziggler in a thrilling ladder match

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

I have watched some clips yesterday after a very long time. I am thinking of returning to watching WWE.

I have to admit WWE has changed to the point it is almost unrecognizable. Many new faces.

How would you rate present WWE? Is it watchable now?

WWE has been on a bit of a roll lately to be honest, especially smackdown which I have enjoyed watching a great deal.

Drew had a landmark year in 2020, and it just means something special to become champion of the biggest company in wrestling history and then doing the prestigious WWE championship justice, he beat some big names in exciting matches and was a main event level face which the fans could genuinely route for, the guy reminds me a little of Bruno Samartino, not comparing drawing power or anything of that ilk but just the nature of his face run and Drew as an individual competitor.

Sami Zayn has been one hell of an anti-american / conspiracy theorist heel, you would laugh at me for saying that in 2021 when Sami has always been such a natural baby face but he has been excellent and pi@@ing people off and his ring work also adapted to convey that with his under handed tactics and in-ring IQ, I love it when heels cheat to win themselves rather then the typical outside interference.

AJ Styles is still there, so is Daniel Bryan and Orton; these guys add a great deal to the product with their veteran experience and Roman Reigns is having the best year of his career, always severely under rated by his critics, in 2020 his heel turn has made for the most compelling story telling in wrestling and you can add Jey Uso to that mix as well who has been phenomenal, not to mention the role of Paul Heyman. WWE started off on a sour note post panedmic but with the thunder dome and some major changes in creative the product is looking great.

 

[andy0204]

Roman as heel is outstanding. Everything from his promos, mannerisms, behavior. I think Heyman deserves alot of credit for making Reigns from a poor man's John Cena to a badass heel. On top of that, KO has really put him over as top heel in this feud.

I wish Cena could have been the heel after all those years he played the same character. No doubt about it he would have done much better heel after all he has some great mic skills.Now he has been to Hollywood but still there is chance to play heel character like The Rock did in 2003.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I wish Cena could have been the heel after all those years he played the same character. No doubt about it he would have done much better heel after all he has some great mic skills.Now he has been to Hollywood but still there is chance to play heel character like The Rock did in 2003.

It think it has everything to do with where WWE has wanted to go as a brand post RE era. WWE has tried to appeal to a broader audience; most importantly kids. And they have sought to do that with Cena as the epitome of the term vanilla face. For the longest time he has been their biggest merchandise seller and despite the divisive crowd reaction he has always been popular among kids.

It's a shame because I think Cena as a talent was always exceptional. He has always had very good mic. skills, in the ring he is outstanding; something we saw once he dropped down to the mid-card. As a heel there was so much potential to do amazing things.

But ultimately I think it goes back to the commercial vs. creative debate. WWE wanted to make money which is why they stuck with Cena as the same boring top guy face with the same six moves for more than a decade.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree with you I think it would be hard to accept, but if they do indeed kill him off; then there has to be something even bigger to replace the Fiend. For example a super over baby face like surfer Sting turning into Crow Sting. Fiend remains incredibly popular and the merch sales have been a big coup for the WWE as well, so part of me feels as though it would be a surprise, so am not entirely convinced they will kill him off but if they did, am sure they would have even bigger plans for Bray Wyatt who is a creative genius and a master at character work / development

So I've been reading up on the dirt sheets and apparently that's the idea. To bring him back as an even more dangerous incarnation. Which is good. But I feel like with the Fiend they sometimes tend to go a bit overboard with the hokey stuff. Otherwise the character itself is pure gold and has alot of potential.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

WWE has been on a bit of a roll lately to be honest, especially smackdown which I have enjoyed watching a great deal.

Drew had a landmark year in 2020, and it just means something special to become champion of the biggest company in wrestling history and then doing the prestigious WWE championship justice, he beat some big names in exciting matches and was a main event level face which the fans could genuinely route for, the guy reminds me a little of Bruno Samartino, not comparing drawing power or anything of that ilk but just the nature of his face run and Drew as an individual competitor.

Sami Zayn has been one hell of an anti-american / conspiracy theorist heel, you would laugh at me for saying that in 2021 when Sami has always been such a natural baby face but he has been excellent and pi@@ing people off and his ring work also adapted to convey that with his under handed tactics and in-ring IQ, I love it when heels cheat to win themselves rather then the typical outside interference.

AJ Styles is still there, so is Daniel Bryan and Orton; these guys add a great deal to the product with their veteran experience and Roman Reigns is having the best year of his career, always severely under rated by his critics, in 2020 his heel turn has made for the most compelling story telling in wrestling and you can add Jey Uso to that mix as well who has been phenomenal, not to mention the role of Paul Heyman. WWE started off on a sour note post panedmic but with the thunder dome and some major changes in creative the product is looking great.

Feel so bad for Drew. The guy would have gotten such an amazing pop/reaction had he been able to beat Brock infront of a crowd.

WM 36 could have been really amazing had it not been for COVID. Some of the matches they had on the card were really exciting. Other things that would have been great had COVID not happened: KO jumping off a pirate ship, The Fiend burying Cena, Taker bowing out to a massive pop after what likely would have been a very good match with AJ. Sadly it wasn't to be.

 

[shaz619]

So I've been reading up on the dirt sheets and apparently that's the idea. To bring him back as an even more dangerous incarnation. Which is good. But I feel like with the Fiend they sometimes tend to go a bit overboard with the hokey stuff. Otherwise the character itself is pure gold and has alot of potential.

I’ve reached a point now where I just avoid dirt sheets and try to watch events am excited for live, I feel this era sometimes the moment just gets ruined for us when we have some seeds planted at the back of the mind. I do agree that sometimes they do go overboard especially some of the recent angles lol

Feel so bad for Drew. The guy would have gotten such an amazing pop/reaction had he been able to beat Brock infront of a crowd.

WM 36 could have been really amazing had it not been for COVID. Some of the matches they had on the card were really exciting. Other things that would have been great had COVID not happened: KO jumping off a pirate ship, The Fiend burying Cena, Taker bowing out to a massive pop after what likely would have been a very good match with AJ. Sadly it wasn't to be.

That would have been an epic moment before a crowd and this comes from a guy who has absolutely despised Drew for making my hero tap out to his own finish move! I saw it live in Manchester when Kurt tapped out to the ankle lock, as good as Drew is as a face he was a despicable heel, and it is harder to make people like you imo which just shows you how good this run has been with the prestigious WWE championship, he has been the perfect guy to take the company through the pandemic and hopefully when crowds return he can have a nice moment. I enjoyed WM 36 despite that it could have been better with people, I think that it is a bit sour AJ couldn’t help Taker retire before a crowd think it would have been epic but I thoroughly enjoyed the bone yard match and especially Charlotte v Ripley, Charlotte took the crowd out of the equation with her shear intensity. Am not sure what the situation is currently regardly the return of crowds especially with Mania ahead but should be interesting to see, enjoyed Nakamura performance in the gaunlet last week feel he is a bit under utilised

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’ve reached a point now where I just avoid dirt sheets and try to watch events am excited for live, I feel this era sometimes the moment just gets ruined for us when we have some seeds planted at the back of the mind. I do agree that sometimes they do go overboard especially some of the recent angles lol



That would have been an epic moment before a crowd and this comes from a guy who has absolutely despised Drew for making my hero tap out to his own finish move! I saw it live in Manchester when Kurt tapped out to the ankle lock, as good as Drew is as a face he was a despicable heel, and it is harder to make people like you imo which just shows you how good this run has been with the prestigious WWE championship, he has been the perfect guy to take the company through the pandemic and hopefully when crowds return he can have a nice moment. I enjoyed WM 36 despite that it could have been better with people, I think that it is a bit sour AJ couldn’t help Taker retire before a crowd think it would have been epic but I thoroughly enjoyed the bone yard match and especially Charlotte v Ripley, Charlotte took the crowd out of the equation with her shear intensity. Am not sure what the situation is currently regardly the return of crowds especially with Mania ahead but should be interesting to see, enjoyed Nakamura performance in the gaunlet last week feel he is a bit under utilised

Hahah, but that was kind of the point wasn't it? I am sure he must have gotten massive heat from the crowd that night. The thing that frustrated me more about that was why couldn't they book that same match for Mania? For me, Angle losing to freakin' Corbin was just a waste of Angle's last match. They should have understood by 2019 that Drew was destined to be a top guy. Instead of wasting Drew vs Roman which I am sure is going to be a massive Mania match few years down the line, they could have easily booked Drew to take on Angle in his last match, or even Taker, who was wrestling Drew in a tag team match at Extreme Rules a month later, that didn't make a lot of sense storytelling-wise.

Yeah that was good. I think Ripley could be a real star for WWE for the future. She has personality and presence, and is pretty good in the ring too. I even enjoyed both the cinematic matches. I thought that was a super-interesting alternative since crowds were not there. Edge v Randy Orton was the only thing that really disappointed me. They should have just done their Backlash match (which imo was an instant classic) at WM. That Backlash match between Orton and Edge is another thing that would have been incredible with a crowd.

From what I am hearing the idea is to hold WM 37 at the same venue with crowds. But I don't think anything can be confirmed because of COVID.

 

[shaz619]

So I've been reading up on the dirt sheets and apparently that's the idea. To bring him back as an even more dangerous incarnation. Which is good. But I feel like with the Fiend they sometimes tend to go a bit overboard with the hokey stuff. Otherwise the character itself is pure gold and has alot of potential.

Hahah, but that was kind of the point wasn't it? I am sure he must have gotten massive heat from the crowd that night. The thing that frustrated me more about that was why couldn't they book that same match for Mania? For me, Angle losing to freakin' Corbin was just a waste of Angle's last match. They should have understood by 2019 that Drew was destined to be a top guy. Instead of wasting Drew vs Roman which I am sure is going to be a massive Mania match few years down the line, they could have easily booked Drew to take on Angle in his last match, or even Taker, who was wrestling Drew in a tag team match at Extreme Rules a month later, that didn't make a lot of sense storytelling-wise.

Yeah that was good. I think Ripley could be a real star for WWE for the future. She has personality and presence, and is pretty good in the ring too. I even enjoyed both the cinematic matches. I thought that was a super-interesting alternative since crowds were not there. Edge v Randy Orton was the only thing that really disappointed me. They should have just done their Backlash match (which imo was an instant classic) at WM. That Backlash match between Orton and Edge is another thing that would have been incredible with a crowd.

From what I am hearing the idea is to hold WM 37 at the same venue with crowds. But I don't think anything can be confirmed because of COVID.

Yes pretty much the point I meant, like even for someone smartened up he drew heat from me I like that, much prefer it (at my own expense) than to pander to smarks, I like it when heels try to be heels. Am not sure but the powers that be may have been a little sour on Angle’s run in TNA, Angle himself wanted Cena and I feel as though he deserved more of a say, watching it live in attendance I did enjoy the performance from Angle at mania but when he first returned to the WWE straight off that world title win in an excellent match with Lashley WWE would use him in a non in-ring capacity and that fast tracked Angle’s retirement / physical abilities in the ring, when you’re older you need to be active or you slow down rapidly. From one perspective I feel as though it was a blessing in disguise that WWE did not use him more in the ring / phases out because going by Angle’s interview with Austin he was like he got another 5 or 6 years left full time lol going by his past issues that just doesn’t sound good and problem with Olympians is they are so competitive that sometimes they just don’t know when to stop.

Personally I didn’t mind Randy / Edge too much, if I had one criticism it was the length, but hey the Hitman enjoyed it and I did like the physicality however the pace was a little too slow, the backlash match definitely was more epic though and may have been my favourite match of 2020, the storytelling was phenomenal and it even drew a tear from the Undertaker

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes pretty much the point I meant, like even for someone smartened up he drew heat from me I like that, much prefer it (at my own expense) than to pander to smarks, I like it when heels try to be heels. Am not sure but the powers that be may have been a little sour on Angle’s run in TNA, Angle himself wanted Cena and I feel as though he deserved more of a say, watching it live in attendance I did enjoy the performance from Angle at mania but when he first returned to the WWE straight off that world title win in an excellent match with Lashley WWE would use him in a non in-ring capacity and that fast tracked Angle’s retirement / physical abilities in the ring, when you’re older you need to be active or you slow down rapidly. From one perspective I feel as though it was a blessing in disguise that WWE did not use him more in the ring / phases out because going by Angle’s interview with Austin he was like he got another 5 or 6 years left full time lol going by his past issues that just doesn’t sound good and problem with Olympians is they are so competitive that sometimes they just don’t know when to stop.

Personally I didn’t mind Randy / Edge too much, if I had one criticism it was the length, but hey the Hitman enjoyed it and I did like the physicality however the pace was a little too slow, the backlash match definitely was more epic though and may have been my favourite match of 2020, the storytelling was phenomenal and it even drew a tear from the Undertaker

Oh man totally agree re: the heel part. Also, you saw WM live aswell? That must have been freakin' amazing. What was the biggest pop you heard on the whole show?

I've hoarded up on those Broken Skull Sessions and I definitely plan on seeing/hearing all of them soon.

I think Angle is putting himself over a little there, based on his history of neck injuries I definitely don't think he had much time left. You are definitely right on the inactivity part. WWE misused him and putting him in a program with Corbin towards the end was frankly, a waste of his talents. But despite that the matches he did wrestle like the Shield handicap and the mixed tag at Mania, were very solid. The Mania match was probably the only good mixed tag match I have ever seen. And yeah, I think he should have gotten the match he wanted but even if he didn't, there were a number of younger guys he could have put over that weren't Baron Corbin.

The length and pacing was the biggest issue for me with the Mania match. I know they had to get creative by booking a Last Man Standing match in a performance center but a straight-up wrestling would just have been better.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

Oh man totally agree re: the heel part. Also, you saw WM live aswell? That must have been freakin' amazing. What was the biggest pop you heard on the whole show?

I've hoarded up on those Broken Skull Sessions and I definitely plan on seeing/hearing all of them soon.

I think Angle is putting himself over a little there, based on his history of neck injuries I definitely don't think he had much time left. You are definitely right on the inactivity part. WWE misused him and putting him in a program with Corbin towards the end was frankly, a waste of his talents. But despite that the matches he did wrestle like the Shield handicap and the mixed tag at Mania, were very solid. The Mania match was probably the only good mixed tag match I have ever seen. And yeah, I think he should have gotten the match he wanted but even if he didn't, there were a number of younger guys he could have put over that weren't Baron Corbin.

The length and pacing was the biggest issue for me with the Mania match. I know they had to get creative by booking a Last Man Standing match in a performance center but a straight-up wrestling would just have been better.

Yes mate was very fortunate it was my first real holiday ever and used all the savings I had for a mania package deal which was totally worth it, it was a bonus that I could also see NYC and looking back with the pandemic etc it was a blessing. I enjoyed all the shows including Takeover etc personally I think nothing made me jump out my seat more then Taker appearing on RAW lol besides that, the loudest pop was Cena coming out as his ol rapper persona and Thugonomics / that video package of that famous baseball player was a nice touch to, I’d say Kofi/Seth winning were right up there as well, I also was tearing up for Angle’s final match. Only criticism felt the event was too long everyone was dead by the final 2 hours, also Orton/AJ was ruined by a production lights issue which was blurring our vision.

That podcast was on podcast one I believe outside the Broken Skull Sessions and thing is it was a serious question from Austin which drew a serious response from Kurt, when you look at his body of work and intensity he meant every word, Austin laughed and you felt he was immediately concerned, having said that I feel Kurt should have worked a few high profile programs as soon as he came into the company and then left on a high, he would still have been at his best rather then on a decline, but like you said that match at mania with Ronda was a lot of fun and some others

What was your favourite match from 2020?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes mate was very fortunate it was my first real holiday ever and used all the savings I had for a mania package deal which was totally worth it, it was a bonus that I could also see NYC and looking back with the pandemic etc it was a blessing. I enjoyed all the shows including Takeover etc personally I think nothing made me jump out my seat more then Taker appearing on RAW lol besides that, the loudest pop was Cena coming out as his ol rapper persona and Thugonomics / that video package of that famous baseball player was a nice touch to, I’d say Kofi/Seth winning were right up there as well, I also was tearing up for Angle’s final match. Only criticism felt the event was too long everyone was dead by the final 2 hours, also Orton/AJ was ruined by a production lights issue which was blurring our vision.

That podcast was on podcast one I believe outside the Broken Skull Sessions and thing is it was a serious question from Austin which drew a serious response from Kurt, when you look at his body of work and intensity he meant every word, Austin laughed and you felt he was immediately concerned, having said that I feel Kurt should have worked a few high profile programs as soon as he came into the company and then left on a high, he would still have been at his best rather then on a decline, but like you said that match at mania with Ronda was a lot of fun and some others

What was your favourite match from 2020?

Oh man. That sounds absolutely incredible. Must have been a real once in a lifetime moment for you. And lol I remember the crowd going nuts for Doctor of Thuganomics Cena, I can only imagine how it must have been live. The card was packed so I can imagine the fatigue setting in. Btw what did you make of Batista v HHH? As an old Batista fan it really disappointed me how badly old Dave was treated by the fans when he returned back in 2014, eventhough he just wanted to wrestle and ended up doing some good by putting over Daniel Bryan and the Shield guys. But what did you make of his last match, and him putting over the one guy he attributes alot of his success to?

Ah I see. Well that's just even more disappointing. Because to have a guy like Angle come back and not use him properly is just bad business imo. I think it was Vince's ego that always got in the way of Angle coming back to WWE once he left in 2006. Angle's whole issue was he could do part-time but not full-time. When Vince brought back Lesnar and Rock in 2012 he should have tried to get Angle back aswell because the prospect of Angle v Bryan, Angle v Punk, Angle v Rollins, Angle v Styles (likely with better booking than TNA) were all big missed opportunities in my mind, along with many others.

My favorite match of 2020 was The Fiend vs. Daniel Bryan at the Royal Rumble. Firstly it was just nice to see a good strap match after a long time. But other than that, I thought the match was really well booked; and not overbooked like alot of The Fiend's other matches. Orton v Edge at Backlash would have been No.1 if it wasn't for COVID. Other than that I really enjoyed Reigns v KO at TLC. A highly physical match, the likes of which you don't see very often these days.

What about you? What was your favorite match of 2020?

 

[Asim_khan]

Having not watched much WWE in a long while, I decided I'd have a look since it was being given such rave reviews on the AEW thread by our resident learned pro wrestling watchers, and having just survived it... it certainly was something else. Being used to watching AEW Dynamite on Wednesdays, it's a literal 2 hour adrenaline rush, I'm usually sat there and before I know it, it's the main event and I wonder where the time went, this RAW just hit different though, 3 hours is long enough but it felt more like 11 hours...

What an absolute dreadful episode of RAW, my god that was torture, take out the AJ Styles Vs Ricochet match, which was magnificent, probably the best WWE tv match since Bryan vs Styles on Smackdown, and the rest needed to be binned. Who's booking this pig swill? Is this what the resident 'Fiends' consider "structure"?? "sound booking"??" I'm embarassed on your behalf. And the re-re-re-re-re-debut of Gillberg, golly gosh oh gee, how original! What year is this? 1998?? I was half expecting the Gobbledy Gooker to show up next.

And that Jaxson Ryker/Jeff Hardy match First of all the only reason Vince is keeping them around is to keep them from other companies, Hardy from AEW, and Ryker from either the KKK or attacking Capitol Hill with Drake Younger. And Elias still doing his knock off cosplay Hollywood Rock impression.

Thank the lord there's an alternative on Wednesday where you get matches of the calibre of Styles/Ricochet every week, and better, otherwise it's enough for anyone to stick a fork in this garbage which the so called biggest company in Pro wrestling has got going on. This echo chamber you've created has blinded you to the absolutely awful pro Wrestling.

I'm literally offended by it. Anyway "Let me in".

 

[shaz619]

Oh man. That sounds absolutely incredible. Must have been a real once in a lifetime moment for you. And lol I remember the crowd going nuts for Doctor of Thuganomics Cena, I can only imagine how it must have been live. The card was packed so I can imagine the fatigue setting in. Btw what did you make of Batista v HHH? As an old Batista fan it really disappointed me how badly old Dave was treated by the fans when he returned back in 2014, eventhough he just wanted to wrestle and ended up doing some good by putting over Daniel Bryan and the Shield guys. But what did you make of his last match, and him putting over the one guy he attributes alot of his success to?

Ah I see. Well that's just even more disappointing. Because to have a guy like Angle come back and not use him properly is just bad business imo. I think it was Vince's ego that always got in the way of Angle coming back to WWE once he left in 2006. Angle's whole issue was he could do part-time but not full-time. When Vince brought back Lesnar and Rock in 2012 he should have tried to get Angle back aswell because the prospect of Angle v Bryan, Angle v Punk, Angle v Rollins, Angle v Styles (likely with better booking than TNA) were all big missed opportunities in my mind, along with many others.

My favorite match of 2020 was The Fiend vs. Daniel Bryan at the Royal Rumble. Firstly it was just nice to see a good strap match after a long time. But other than that, I thought the match was really well booked; and not overbooked like alot of The Fiend's other matches. Orton v Edge at Backlash would have been No.1 if it wasn't for COVID. Other than that I really enjoyed Reigns v KO at TLC. A highly physical match, the likes of which you don't see very often these days.

What about you? What was your favorite match of 2020?

Batista was always misunderstood by smarks because of his size and look, they somehow took that for gospel by presuming his ego was as big as his muscles, it couldn’t be further from the truth, this is a guy who was asked to squash Bryan in a TV match around 2010/2011 but he refused, he said to the powers that be do you know who this is? they would have a little more back and forth, Batista at his best also put over Mysterio clean during a house show in Mexico and when he came back, as you say not only put over Bryan but tapped out and then there was the Shield to. Batista’s comeback was managed badly, he wanted to return as a heel and have a final run with the belt. As someone who grew up on the shock value of AE era, I would then appreciate the RA era that followed even more for its emphasis on cohesive story telling, ring psychology and development of some seriously exciting prospects which came through OVW, so for me in a way WM35 was almost like closure with guys like Angle, Cena, Batista etc booked on the show. If am honest, I know reviews may say otherwise but watching the match live I enjoyed it, as far as him putting over HHH is concerned; it’s Dave’s decision but I just despise HHH so I will leave it there but I strongly feel that both Cena/Batista had the it factor and recieved excellent schooling during OVW runs, when they made the jump to main roster Vince recognised their varying Charisma levels and simply invested in both because there no alternatives who were fresh and combined their looks with their own personal star quality, I don’t think at the time they were expected to develop such huge fan bases and especially in Batista’s case who continued to prove doubters wrong well past the end of his full time run.

I feel it was part bitterness and the other part maybe Vince wanted to protect Angle from himself, the last thing he’d also want is a major issue surrounding an Olympian. The WWE 24 doc on Angle is one of the best documentary’s I have ever seen and the best from WWE imo deserved an emmy, it emphasises the love/hate relationship between Angle and Vince / their strong bond and convey what happened really well when Angle left for TNA.

Yes that match was really good, I hated Fiend matches under the red lights but Daniel Bryan made it work lol he deserves to be up there on the mount rushmore of this business as an in ring performer, the guy is special. But I enjoyed that match a lot, for 2020 the stuff Reigns has been doing in the ring has been fantastic, anyone can jump around like an absolute brainless idiot but it takes more to actually tell a story, the stuff with the Uso’s at hell in a cell was beautiful story telling between the ropes, he killed it with Drew at SS as well and KO; but my personal fav will be Edge/Orton at backlash, it teared me up a few times, the back story of Edge being away / wanting to finish on his terms and the challenge to go toe to toe with Orton in the squared in a traditional in-ring match was brilliant, the constant doubt in his eyes and playing up whether he still had it / could compete moved me because it was raw / real and then that added pressure of ‘greatest match ever’ created more intrigue and put a big obstacle before Edge, I just love it when you just two performers who go at it without the bells and whistles with a nice build/story behind them.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Good news and hilarious vid lols, excited for the biggest even in the industry's history; it doesn't appear they have confirmed the return of fans just yet but I would presume they will at WM 37, I doubt it will be at capacity but maybe 20-30k

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Batista was always misunderstood by smarks because of his size and look, they somehow took that for gospel by presuming his ego was as big as his muscles, it couldnÂ’t be further from the truth, this is a guy who was asked to squash Bryan in a TV match around 2010/2011 but he refused, he said to the powers that be do you know who this is? they would have a little more back and forth, Batista at his best also put over Mysterio clean during a house show in Mexico and when he came back, as you say not only put over Bryan but tapped out and then there was the Shield to. BatistaÂ’s comeback was managed badly, he wanted to return as a heel and have a final run with the belt. As someone who grew up on the shock value of AE era, I would then appreciate the RA era that followed even more for its emphasis on cohesive story telling, ring psychology and development of some seriously exciting prospects which came through OVW, so for me in a way WM35 was almost like closure with guys like Angle, Cena, Batista etc booked on the show. If am honest, I know reviews may say otherwise but watching the match live I enjoyed it, as far as him putting over HHH is concerned; itÂ’s DaveÂ’s decision but I just despise HHH so I will leave it there but I strongly feel that both Cena/Batista had the it factor and recieved excellent schooling during OVW runs, when they made the jump to main roster Vince recognised their varying Charisma levels and simply invested in both because there no alternatives who were fresh and combined their looks with their own personal star quality, I donÂ’t think at the time they were expected to develop such huge fan bases and especially in BatistaÂ’s case who continued to prove doubters wrong well past the end of his full time run.

I feel it was part bitterness and the other part maybe Vince wanted to protect Angle from himself, the last thing heÂ’d also want is a major issue surrounding an Olympian. The WWE 24 doc on Angle is one of the best documentaryÂ’s I have ever seen and the best from WWE imo deserved an emmy, it emphasises the love/hate relationship between Angle and Vince / their strong bond and convey what happened really well when Angle left for TNA.

Yes that match was really good, I hated Fiend matches under the red lights but Daniel Bryan made it work lol he deserves to be up there on the mount rushmore of this business as an in ring performer, the guy is special. But I enjoyed that match a lot, for 2020 the stuff Reigns has been doing in the ring has been fantastic, anyone can jump around like an absolute brainless idiot but it takes more to actually tell a story, the stuff with the Uso’s at hell in a cell was beautiful story telling between the ropes, he killed it with Drew at SS as well and KO; but my personal fav will be Edge/Orton at backlash, it teared me up a few times, the back story of Edge being away / wanting to finish on his terms and the challenge to go toe to toe with Orton in the squared in a traditional in-ring match was brilliant, the constant doubt in his eyes and playing up whether he still had it / could compete moved me because it was raw / real and then that added pressure of ‘greatest match ever’ created more intrigue and put a big obstacle before Edge, I just love it when you just two performers who go at it without the bells and whistles with a nice build/story behind them.

Couldn't agree with you more man. Vince's long-standing obsession of booking Orton v Batista, which he wanted to do back at WM 21 got in the way of Dave having that one last good run. In the end things ended up working out well, the three PPV that Batista had were all outstanding in my book, with the WM 30 one standing out as an all-timer but so much more could have been done as you rightly said. Seeing the belt on Batista and him being a proper heel would have been great. And eventho the match at WM35 was not great with some squeamish spots (nose-ring lol), I kinda enjoyed it too because Batista in many ways defined the RA era for me personally. And glad that big Dave got to leave on his own terms.

I planned on seeing that doc. but your endorsement has made me even more excited to see it now. I have been watching WWE docs (Untold, 24, Chronicle) in the past few months and really enjoying them. Have seen all the Untold episodes, any WWE 24 episodes that particularly stand-out for you? I have not seen much of that series.

As a wrestling match that Orton v Edge match at Backlash was unquestionably one of the greatest wrestling matches ever. It certainly lived up to the tag-line and it had everything. But as someone who finds the crowd and the atmosphere to be an essential component of the whole thing, that is the one thing that held it back for me…along with the heavy editing which I felt was somewhat unnecessary. I realize fully that WWE can’t be blamed for the first thing but it’s just unfortunate that Edge’s return had to coincide with COVID.

Roman for me has just gone to the next level with his heel turn. I think Heyman can be credited heavily but fact is that Reigns himself is a force of his own on the mic, and this new persona makes you completely forget about the good guy in a tactical jacket that WWE was shoving down everyone’s throats a few years ago. But even his in-ring work has improved. He was always a great worker but like you pointed out his ability to tell a story in the ring has also improved leaps and bounds, and imo there are very few guys that are as good at selling as he is, which is something I greatly appreciate.

 

[Rajdeep]

Royal Rumble 2021 results:

Macintyre beats Goldberg to retain WWE Title

Edge wins 30 man royal rumble match

 

[shaz619]

Couldn't agree with you more man. Vince's long-standing obsession of booking Orton v Batista, which he wanted to do back at WM 21 got in the way of Dave having that one last good run. In the end things ended up working out well, the three PPV that Batista had were all outstanding in my book, with the WM 30 one standing out as an all-timer but so much more could have been done as you rightly said. Seeing the belt on Batista and him being a proper heel would have been great. And eventho the match at WM35 was not great with some squeamish spots (nose-ring lol), I kinda enjoyed it too because Batista in many ways defined the RA era for me personally. And glad that big Dave got to leave on his own terms.

I planned on seeing that doc. but your endorsement has made me even more excited to see it now. I have been watching WWE docs (Untold, 24, Chronicle) in the past few months and really enjoying them. Have seen all the Untold episodes, any WWE 24 episodes that particularly stand-out for you? I have not seen much of that series.

As a wrestling match that Orton v Edge match at Backlash was unquestionably one of the greatest wrestling matches ever. It certainly lived up to the tag-line and it had everything. But as someone who finds the crowd and the atmosphere to be an essential component of the whole thing, that is the one thing that held it back for me…along with the heavy editing which I felt was somewhat unnecessary. I realize fully that WWE can’t be blamed for the first thing but it’s just unfortunate that Edge’s return had to coincide with COVID.

Roman for me has just gone to the next level with his heel turn. I think Heyman can be credited heavily but fact is that Reigns himself is a force of his own on the mic, and this new persona makes you completely forget about the good guy in a tactical jacket that WWE was shoving down everyone’s throats a few years ago. But even his in-ring work has improved. He was always a great worker but like you pointed out his ability to tell a story in the ring has also improved leaps and bounds, and imo there are very few guys that are as good at selling as he is, which is something I greatly appreciate.

I enjoyed that match at WM 35 live, am yet to see the replay to see how it came across, overall he had a great comeback run I thought and he did what other part timers rarely do and that was elevating others around him and helping storylines develop.

That Kurt Angle WWE24 stands out the most easily for me, the series overall is good but that episode was fantastic.

Yes it's amazing how Heyman by his mere precense and the little things he does just add more layers and depth to a main event talent, Reigns has gone from strength to strength ever since, I think Reigns is not as bad on the mic as he has been made out to be in his career, the scripted nature of WWE unfortunately held him back in his early days but even in the past few years as a face I thought he was solid but most definitely playing a bad guy suits him a lot more and there is no doubt Heyman is a master of getting the best possible promo out of you.

Looks like the world championship matches are sorted for mania this year:

Reigns v Edge
Drew v Lashley

Two proper heavyweight main event clashes and don't be deceived by the size of these world class performers, not only do they look the part they are incredibly agile and incredibly versatile in the ring, and I expect excellent in-ring psychology to.

Going back to RAW this week, Mizz dropped the title in the best possible way within the confines of his character it's humiliating when hipsters jerk to guys like Kenny when he isn't good enough to be compared to even the Mizz, I honestly don't think Kenny would have achieved as much in the same spot, we have plenty of guys who can work really well and I don't even think he is that good. But man finally, Lashley wins the big one; it has come a bit late in his career but can't think of a wrestler who deserves it more considering his resume and what he brings as a performer, his skill set and athleticism is comparable to Lesnar and after some truly shocking story lines and pathetic booking, am glad Bruce Prichard and others have forced us to take him more seriously by positioning him as a serious menacing/unforgiving heel, MVP has played his part to, I have enjoyed the Hurt Business mostly, Retribution on the other hand big waste of Mustafa Ali's abilities

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I enjoyed that match at WM 35 live, am yet to see the replay to see how it came across, overall he had a great comeback run I thought and he did what other part timers rarely do and that was elevating others around him and helping storylines develop.

That Kurt Angle WWE24 stands out the most easily for me, the series overall is good but that episode was fantastic.

Yes it's amazing how Heyman by his mere precense and the little things he does just add more layers and depth to a main event talent, Reigns has gone from strength to strength ever since, I think Reigns is not as bad on the mic as he has been made out to be in his career, the scripted nature of WWE unfortunately held him back in his early days but even in the past few years as a face I thought he was solid but most definitely playing a bad guy suits him a lot more and there is no doubt Heyman is a master of getting the best possible promo out of you.

Looks like the world championship matches are sorted for mania this year:

Reigns v Edge
Drew v Lashley

Two proper heavyweight main event clashes and don't be deceived by the size of these world class performers, not only do they look the part they are incredibly agile and incredibly versatile in the ring, and I expect excellent in-ring psychology to.

Going back to RAW this week, Mizz dropped the title in the best possible way within the confines of his character it's humiliating when hipsters jerk to guys like Kenny when he isn't good enough to be compared to even the Mizz, I honestly don't think Kenny would have achieved as much in the same spot, we have plenty of guys who can work really well and I don't even think he is that good. But man finally, Lashley wins the big one; it has come a bit late in his career but can't think of a wrestler who deserves it more considering his resume and what he brings as a performer, his skill set and athleticism is comparable to Lesnar and after some truly shocking story lines and pathetic booking, am glad Bruce Prichard and others have forced us to take him more seriously by positioning him as a serious menacing/unforgiving heel, MVP has played his part to, I have enjoyed the Hurt Business mostly, Retribution on the other hand big waste of Mustafa Ali's abilities

I'll check definitely check that doc. out.

It was good to see Lashley win the title. As someone who saw him become really big at one point in the RA era, and still not become an established main-eventer it was interesting to see the evolution of his career to finally becoming a main-event level talent. He was always a great athlete but was lacking in the personality department in that first WWE run. I think he has a much stronger personality now and is a credible and believable heel, and alot of that is because of--like you said--the Hurt Business and MVP's excellent mic work.

Lashley vs Drew if booked properly has the potential to be a great match worthy of the WrestleMania positioning. So kudos to WWE on that and Edge vs Reigns which I'm certain will be great.

As for Raw, I have to say I have aggressively disliked the show recently. Even with the positives like Drew/Sheamus, Hurt Business, Lashley; the show is weighed down by alot of bad writing and unengaging angles. Retribution feels like something AEW or TNA would come up with: a faction of interchangeable jobbers led by a midcarder. AJ has no direction on the show for quite some time. Totally being wasted. Though I don't dislike Miz/Morrison, they get too much TV time, and Bad Bunny being one of the most popular things is a damning indictment of the show.

By comparison, SmackDown has been a pretty good show with engaging promos/angles and good wrestling matches. Guys like Cesaro and Jey Uso have been pushed and the quality of the show has benefited from that. I'm really interested to see where Cesaro goes. I think he is easily one of the best workers in the company and has long been deserving of a proper singles push. The feud between him and Rollins has the potential to be great. And of course Reigns being the top guy/top heel makes all the difference. Only minor quip is the tag team division and the IC title picture which could be much better. And I would really like to see my boy KO get a proper face push and win a title. He had a great feud with Reigns but lost way too often for my liking.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] WM build has been underwhelming overall, apart from Reigns/Edge/Bryan; there isn't another match with a WM quality build. Also, Jericho is going to return for Broken Skull Sessions with Austin, that should be great. KO/Zayn get lucky with their back story so I suppose that makes it interesting. I like the stuff between Rhea/Asuka and while they can be forgiven for this due to the issues with Charlotte, they've not had enough time building the match. From an in-ring POV, the event should deliver on the most part, but what's missing here apart from the Reigns match are story's that evoke emotion

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @Kaleem Finally some fantastic and detailed insight into arguably the greatest match of all time, certainly the best I've seen. Angle launched his podcast recently, check this out; a lot of what we thought was pretty much confirmed in terms of the reception backstage and staff being in tears, it was a masterpiece

 

[shaz619]

At WM21 Eddie Gurrero was booked on the same card, so many mouth watering possibilities; it was rumoured he was pencilled to work with Shawn at WM22

 

[Suleiman]

^Thanks for bumping this thread man, I was too lazy even though I’ve been meaning to post here as I’ve been watching a lot of vintage matches of the attitude era and some more recent ones. Never watched WCW before and watched matches of that too. Gained a new respect for Hogan for reinventing himself with the NWO. I think NWO was an amazing idea but they messed it up by having 80% of the WCW roster join lol.

Also I had been listening to the NWO theme nonstop 2-3 days in a row because it is so damn catchy:

Having met Carlito and run into him quite a bit last few years at the gym near my house I’m so happy he’s back in action. Dude has been putting in hard yards at the gym and looks in 10x better shape than when he debuted.

But yeah I watched Wrestlemania 17 again. It’s crazy that that venue is where I’m supposed to go to get the vaccine and it hosted one of the greatest if not the greatest WMs ever.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] WM build has been underwhelming overall, apart from Reigns/Edge/Bryan; there isn't another match with a WM quality build. Also, Jericho is going to return for Broken Skull Sessions with Austin, that should be great. KO/Zayn get lucky with their back story so I suppose that makes it interesting. I like the stuff between Rhea/Asuka and while they can be forgiven for this due to the issues with Charlotte, they've not had enough time building the match. From an in-ring POV, the event should deliver on the most part, but what's missing here apart from the Reigns match are story's that evoke emotion

Agreed. I like alot of the matches on the card such as Zayn v KO, Cesaro v Rollins, Lashley v McIntyre but the build has been remarkably poor. Fiend v Orton has been built-up since January but the entire angle is just incredibly strange and I am hoping they can have an actual wrestling match this time instead of another gimmicky schmoz. As you pointed out, Edge/DB/Reigns is the only one with any build-up because they clearly planned that out since atleast Elimination Chamber. But overall pretty poor from WWE. Knowing that there would be crowds this time around they should have taken the time to build-up stories. Also, can't believe that the greatest wrestler in the world AJ Styles is wrestling a tag match that will most likely be a squash.

Yeah it should still be very good. I have particularly high expectations from the main-event. And now that they've turned Edge heel that has made things really interesting. But when I look at two particular feuds: KO/Zayn and Rollins/Cesaro there is so much history and backstory there to create a compelling story with emotion that they didn't even have to do alot of work, just needed to put in some time. And its disappointing they haven't done any of that.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] WM build has been underwhelming overall, apart from Reigns/Edge/Bryan; there isn't another match with a WM quality build. Also, Jericho is going to return for Broken Skull Sessions with Austin, that should be great. KO/Zayn get lucky with their back story so I suppose that makes it interesting. I like the stuff between Rhea/Asuka and while they can be forgiven for this due to the issues with Charlotte, they've not had enough time building the match. From an in-ring POV, the event should deliver on the most part, but what's missing here apart from the Reigns match are story's that evoke emotion

Saw the Jericho announcement yesterday and I have to say I am quite pumped for that interview. I really enjoyed his interview with Orton and hoping he will ask Jericho some 'controversial' questions. Also surprised that Vince had no problem with allowing Jericho to show up on the show. I guess it shows exactly how much Vince is not threatened by AEW lol.

 

[shaz619]

^Thanks for bumping this thread man, I was too lazy even though I’ve been meaning to post here as I’ve been watching a lot of vintage matches of the attitude era and some more recent ones. Never watched WCW before and watched matches of that too. Gained a new respect for Hogan for reinventing himself with the NWO. I think NWO was an amazing idea but they messed it up by having 80% of the WCW roster join lol.

Also I had been listening to the NWO theme nonstop 2-3 days in a row because it is so damn catchy:

Having met Carlito and run into him quite a bit last few years at the gym near my house I’m so happy he’s back in action. Dude has been putting in hard yards at the gym and looks in 10x better shape than when he debuted.

But yeah I watched Wrestlemania 17 again. It’s crazy that that venue is where I’m supposed to go to get the vaccine and it hosted one of the greatest if not the greatest WMs ever.

Biggest issue with WCW was that there was no vision beyond the NWO and when they caught all the big fish, they wrote complete creative control into their contract and this is what ultimately led to their demise because a bunch of ego maniacs were running the show, there was no structure and WWF's professionalism and focus on developing new talent and giving fresh talent opportunities helped them win the , just look at how WCW utilised Chris Jericho and how the WWF treated Jericho like a main eventer in his first night. The Wolfpac theme was pretty good as well:

Carlito is in insane shape, was glad to see him at the Royal Rumble this year, I felt he was going to sign but doesn't look that way. Yes, top to bottom WM 17 is probably the greatest WM card in history

 

[shaz619]

Agreed. I like alot of the matches on the card such as Zayn v KO, Cesaro v Rollins, Lashley v McIntyre but the build has been remarkably poor. Fiend v Orton has been built-up since January but the entire angle is just incredibly strange and I am hoping they can have an actual wrestling match this time instead of another gimmicky schmoz. As you pointed out, Edge/DB/Reigns is the only one with any build-up because they clearly planned that out since atleast Elimination Chamber. But overall pretty poor from WWE. Knowing that there would be crowds this time around they should have taken the time to build-up stories. Also, can't believe that the greatest wrestler in the world AJ Styles is wrestling a tag match that will most likely be a squash.

Yeah it should still be very good. I have particularly high expectations from the main-event. And now that they've turned Edge heel that has made things really interesting. But when I look at two particular feuds: KO/Zayn and Rollins/Cesaro there is so much history and backstory there to create a compelling story with emotion that they didn't even have to do alot of work, just needed to put in some time. And its disappointing they haven't done any of that.

Saw the Jericho announcement yesterday and I have to say I am quite pumped for that interview. I really enjoyed his interview with Orton and hoping he will ask Jericho some 'controversial' questions. Also surprised that Vince had no problem with allowing Jericho to show up on the show. I guess it shows exactly how much Vince is not threatened by AEW lol.

The RAW go-home show for mania was the worst I've ever seen, during the Network era WWE do tend to coast because most people tend to be subscribed already so they don't try hard to sell PPV's like they did in the past, but sometimes when it has come around to mania season they tend to do a good job, but this was beyond awful even by Network era standards. Smackdown will be better though but even there outside Reigns/Bryan/Edge nothing truly has that WM feel, the best thing heading into mania is this lot and also Apollo's nigerian nightmare gimmick

As for Y2J on Broken Skull Sessions, a lot of the animosity is exaggerated by clueless hipsters; Jericho actually spoke to Vince before he left, it wouldn't shock me if they messaged each other from time to time. Jericho always leaves respectfully and Vince appreciates that he tends to do so generally when he feels he could get more out of himself creatively. But you're right, it probably also shows that Vince isn't remotely concerned about AEW and to be honest, their product and decline in viewership would indicate that, he knows what they are going to be and there's nothing to fear.

My biggest mania disappointment is how AJ went from working with Taker in a main event a year ago to being in a filler mid card match, did he rub someone the wrong way ? Styles should be in a marquee match, heck you could have even had him work with someone like Ricochet or Kofi Kingston, left field choice would be Mustafa Ali although that would mean one of two having to turn face

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The RAW go-home show for mania was the worst I've ever seen, during the Network era WWE do tend to coast because most people tend to be subscribed already so they don't try hard to sell PPV's like they did in the past, but sometimes when it has come around to mania season they tend to do a good job, but this was beyond awful even by Network era standards. Smackdown will be better though but even there outside Reigns/Bryan/Edge nothing truly has that WM feel, the best thing heading into mania is this lot and also Apollo's nigerian nightmare gimmick

As for Y2J on Broken Skull Sessions, a lot of the animosity is exaggerated by clueless hipsters; Jericho actually spoke to Vince before he left, it wouldn't shock me if they messaged each other from time to time. Jericho always leaves respectfully and Vince appreciates that he tends to do so generally when he feels he could get more out of himself creatively. But you're right, it probably also shows that Vince isn't remotely concerned about AEW and to be honest, their product and decline in viewership would indicate that, he knows what they are going to be and there's nothing to fear.

My biggest mania disappointment is how AJ went from working with Taker in a main event a year ago to being in a filler mid card match, did he rub someone the wrong way ? Styles should be in a marquee match, heck you could have even had him work with someone like Ricochet or Kofi Kingston, left field choice would be Mustafa Ali although that would mean one of two having to turn face

RAW in general has been pretty horrendous tho for quite some time so I can't say I was that surprised, eventho its Mania season. I don't know if its the fact that 3 hours is simply too long for a weekly wrestling show, or that there are barely any stars on their roster or that the writing is terrible, or maybe a combination of all three but I'm basically down to watching clips on YouTube of it.

LMAO nothing but love for Apollo Crews's new gimmick. It is one of the best things on the show; from the Nigeran soldiers who stand behind him in the ring to that accent hahah. Apollo has never been more compelling and I'm actually rooting for him because I'm not a fan of Big E.

At this point AEW has scored so many own goals that its impossible for Vince to be even the least bit concerned about them.

Yeah they really dropped the ball with AJ. And its not just Mania season. I can't remember him doing anything since his feud with Drew last year. I personally felt WWE could have booked a match between him and Christian at WrestleMania. But they dropped the ball there too and let Christian go to AEW which is disappointing because I've always been a massive fan of his and his presence on the roster, even as a part-timer could have helped in putting young guys over.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What did you make of WrestleMania? Were you as appalled by The Fiend vs. Randy Orton as I, and pretty much everyone else was?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What did you make of WrestleMania? Were you as appalled by The Fiend vs. Randy Orton as I, and pretty much everyone else was?

Overall it was a great PPV, in the modern era two nights are a must or else main events are turned into dead spots on the card with a deflated crowd. I wasn’t a massive fan of the piped in noise especially with people there but I get why they did it in a stadium. The standout matches were the two main events which I felt delivered, Sasha Banks works extremely well with everyone and is a highly skilled in-ring general, it was a fun match with a nice WM worthy moment for Bianca; in contrast, a title win for Rhea would have been just as memorable with more build to her feud with Asuka but she was presented like a really big deal. The triple threat main event was fantastic with some creative spots, I loved the pace from the start and everyone bought their own dynamic and level of intensity, Edge’s mannerisms were brilliant he bought out bits of his character from Vikings and was more vicious, Bryan was a lot more aggressive then usual and he sold the occasion really well, Reigns worked very hard and brawled like a violent heel from territory days, and the audacity of him stacking both up in the end made for a great finish ignoring Uso’s interference which was not needed.

As for Bray, I hear this was called literally on the day if it was then am even more confused because that doesn’t necessarily tell me they wanted to illicit this reaction, am not sure; everything was set up for a big fiend win so it boggles my mind, looks like they want to put Alexa over and maybe even teased her turning into a Fiend type persona but regardless shouldn’t be at the expense of the Fiend, am not sure of they get Bray at this point or if it was more for Alexa or maybe get more sympathy on the Fiend but either way the 50/50 booking is tiring and if I was Bray, I would consider opportunities elsewhere, unless they have something massive in store for him which is highly unlikely going by experience why not leave, if he doesn’t mind Japan then he could be huge in NJPA and if not he’d almost be certain to be guaranteed creative control at AEW and he’d have the brains to make use of it. What did you think of the event?

 

[shaz619]

I was also looking forward to the AJ match even though it was a tag, I got hyped for it. They were let down time wise by the rain delay but the match was as good as it could be and I saw that spot of his forearm coming off Osmos shoulder’s but just was concerned if he’d manage to balance himself lol it was great spot though and Osmos looked like a beast and was a loot more agile then I expected for a big bloke, AJ now is a grand slam champion; a massive smack on the mortons who keep criticising him and doubted his run in the company

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Overall it was a great PPV, in the modern era two nights are a must or else main events are turned into dead spots on the card with a deflated crowd. I wasn’t a massive fan of the piped in noise especially with people there but I get why they did it in a stadium. The standout matches were the two main events which I felt delivered, Sasha Banks works extremely well with everyone and is a highly skilled in-ring general, it was a fun match with a nice WM worthy moment for Bianca; in contrast, a title win for Rhea would have been just as memorable with more build to her feud with Asuka but she was presented like a really big deal. The triple threat main event was fantastic with some creative spots, I loved the pace from the start and everyone bought their own dynamic and level of intensity, Edge’s mannerisms were brilliant he bought out bits of his character from Vikings and was more vicious, Bryan was a lot more aggressive then usual and he sold the occasion really well, Reigns worked very hard and brawled like a violent heel from territory days, and the audacity of him stacking both up in the end made for a great finish ignoring Uso’s interference which was not needed.

As for Bray, I hear this was called literally on the day if it was then am even more confused because that doesn’t necessarily tell me they wanted to illicit this reaction, am not sure; everything was set up for a big fiend win so it boggles my mind, looks like they want to put Alexa over and maybe even teased her turning into a Fiend type persona but regardless shouldn’t be at the expense of the Fiend, am not sure of they get Bray at this point or if it was more for Alexa or maybe get more sympathy on the Fiend but either way the 50/50 booking is tiring and if I was Bray, I would consider opportunities elsewhere, unless they have something massive in store for him which is highly unlikely going by experience why not leave, if he doesn’t mind Japan then he could be huge in NJPA and if not he’d almost be certain to be guaranteed creative control at AEW and he’d have the brains to make use of it. What did you think of the event?

Yeah overall I thought it was fairly good but nothing mindblowing. My issues were that some of the matches were too short, while certain things about the production just really annoyed me. But first the positives:

Best thing was easily the main-event. All three guys looked like a million bucks in this match. Edge and Reigns wrestled like heels (there was no identity crisis) and I liked the story of the fan-favorite Bryan trying to wrestle more aggressively to get an edge over the two heels. Like you said, Edge's mannerisms were spot on and I thought he was outstanding in the ring too. It really is amazing to see him wrestle again and that too on such a high level. Unlike Oldberg or Lesnar he isn't simply there to phone it in and collect the paycheck, you can tell he loves it and is giving it his all. Also think that probably for the very first time WWE were happy about the fan reaction Reigns was getting. And as far as coronations go, this was a pretty good one establishing him as the top heel. My only quip with this match was the multiple interference by Jey Uso. I think once he was taken out he shouldn't have come back.

My next two favorite matches were Cesaro vs. Rollins and KO vs. Zayn. I wish both were longer but still I thought they were absolute fire and delivered because of the amazing chemistry between all four guys, that goes back years. It was great to see Cesaro and KO get over as babyfaces and that too by staying true to their characters. KO vs. Zayn was fairly reminiscent to Steen vs. Generico in ROH and you had Zayn doing pretty much all the stuff he used to do in ROH as El Generico. I thought the women's matches were fine and Lashley vs. McIntyre was a hard-hitting opener but I was so taken out of this match because of the absolutely schizophrenic camera-work. I think I got used to it as the show went on but it really stood-out in that first match.

The women's gauntlet and tag were terrible. I thought Sheamus vs. Riddle was a bad match with multiple botches. The Nigerian drum fight wasn't really much of the match and Shane vs. Braun too was just there to give the fans a few cool spots. The tag match was good for what it was and if anything, I'm glad AJ is a grandslam champion, but honestly, I hope he's never wrestling in this kind of afterthought of a match on however WrestleManias he has left. He's just too good to be on this position on a card.

But the most appalling thing of the entire show was by far the Fiend vs. Orton. Its just amazing to me that Vince is content with wilfully burying one of his biggest stars just so he can stick it to the fans and the dirtsheets. This is not the first time Bray has been on the wrong side of a braindead booking decision by Vince. But the fact that its WrestleMania makes it worse. This nonsensical feud needed to end with Bray squashing Randy especially since he freaking burned the guy to a crisp. But now not only are they keeping it going but also seemingly just giving Bray's gimmick to Alexa Bliss? It's beyond stupid and takes so much away from the uniqueness of the character. But if there's anyone that I expected would destroy this absolute money gimmick it was senile old Vince.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Unfortunately, I don't see Bray going anywhere else. Despite this nonsense he has deep ties to WWE because of his dad. And its unlikely that he will make the same money everywhere else that he does here or get the same schedule; not that that's the most important factor but certainly something that does factor in. But I think its just terrible that they have this creative guy who comes up with these super creative gimmicks and these guys just bury him for their idiotic short-term decisions. First they killed his Swamp guy gimmick by beating him until he became a parody of himself and fans couldn't care less about him. Now they are seemingly doing the same with The Fiend

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] It seems that because there are no house shows, WWE hasn’t made much of an effort, combine that with no PPV model anymore and it really shows in the quality how they can coast, on the flip side guys like Cesaro are getting a look when that added pressure isn’t there from a typical schedule, otherwise not sure he would be getting an opportunity in the spotlight. RAW is awful as usual but SD is looking good at the top of the card, intrigued to see how things pan out next week between Reigns on Bryan.

And I feel sorry for Bray, looks like I was right, they used him to put over Alexa Bliss.

I continued my Network subscription this month though because I’ve been rewatching what I believe is best feud of the decade 2000-2009, HBK v Jericho (2008), the feud starts right after mania 24 and also involved Batista at the start, the way things marinate slowly and climax is incredible, especially the little things and Jericho’s character development, Jericho and Shawn bring out another level from each other. I would watch every single segment of this feud if you can get around to it, I got to the episode just before Unforgiven PPV, but the matches they had at Judgement Day and GAB were fantastic, they can have classics in their sleep, the first match was a good ol fashioned raslin match with some creative spots I hadn’t seen before and they are just so fluid, the match at GAB is what I’d call genuine story telling being elevate through the in-ring action and ring psychology. The best villains are always those who speak the truth lol

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] It seems that because there are no house shows, WWE hasn’t made much of an effort, combine that with no PPV model anymore and it really shows in the quality how they can coast, on the flip side guys like Cesaro are getting a look when that added pressure isn’t there from a typical schedule, otherwise not sure he would be getting an opportunity in the spotlight. RAW is awful as usual but SD is looking good at the top of the card, intrigued to see how things pan out next week between Reigns on Bryan.

And I feel sorry for Bray, looks like I was right, they used him to put over Alexa Bliss.

I continued my Network subscription this month though because I’ve been rewatching what I believe is best feud of the decade 2000-2009, HBK v Jericho (2008), the feud starts right after mania 24 and also involved Batista at the start, the way things marinate slowly and climax is incredible, especially the little things and Jericho’s character development, Jericho and Shawn bring out another level from each other. I would watch every single segment of this feud if you can get around to it, I got to the episode just before Unforgiven PPV, but the matches they had at Judgement Day and GAB were fantastic, they can have classics in their sleep, the first match was a good ol fashioned raslin match with some creative spots I hadn’t seen before and they are just so fluid, the match at GAB is what I’d call genuine story telling being elevate through the in-ring action and ring psychology. The best villains are always those who speak the truth lol

Yeah I agree. Lack of live-crowds has made the product lazy. There was basically no part-timer at WrestleMania this year (if you don't count Edge) which has to be a first in a long time. SD! is the only saving grace these days and that might be because of the pressure WWE have to deliver from FOX. Really hoping Cesaro gets that push he has been deserving of for years.

In my opinion, that feud was the last great Ruthless Agression era feud even though it took place at the start of their PG era. But for me atleast it was the bookend to the end of an era and the beginning of a safer more sanitized era where the product went downhill and I basically stopped watching for a pretty long time.

And what a great feud. I couldn't agree more with everything you said. From the infamous Highlight Reel segment to the matches you mentioned. I think you missed one match in that feud that was for me atleast, one of the great ladder matches at No Mercy 2008. Jericho for me really evolved as a performer in this feud. You could see it in his promos, the persona he took on. And who can forget those infamous suits and that signature smug look. Absolutely brilliant stuff.

Like you, I too have been forced to watch old RA Era stuff. In particular I’ve been watching Monday Night Raw episodes. I got to 2005 and was astonished by two things: (1) the mastery in which Batista was propelled to the main-event and how expertly his WrestleMania 21 match with HHH was built-up. And (2) Mohammad Hassan and everything he could have been. Maybe it’s just me but hearing Hassan’s early promos on Raw and the nuclear heat he drew from crowd was something else altogether. Like you said, the best villains are always those who speak the truth. And Hassan was easily the most complex take on the foreign heel gimmick that I can ever recall seeing, because so much of what he was saying rang true to anyone who wasn’t a jingoistic American. It’s a shame how things turned out for him because he was destined to be a star. I read somewhere that he was even supposed to beat Batista and become the youngest world champion at SummerSlam before that segment on SD basically ended his career.

 

[Firebat]

WWE Wrestler Kurt Angle will come to Pakistan next year

KARACHI: One of the top WWE wrestlers, Kurt Angle will come to Pakistan next year to participate in REW World Heavy Weight Championship.

In a video message, the wrestler confirmed that he is coming to lit up wrestling stage in Karachi next year. “It’s true, I am coming to Pakistan next year to participate in the REW World Championship match. I can’t wait to be there and win this championship,” he said.

Earlier, as many as 10 wrestlers from various European countries and the United States toured Pakistan for the international event. They included Chris Masters, Tiny Iron and Drake Destroyer, and Badshah Khan.

https://arysports.tv/wwe-wrestler-kurt-angle-come-pakistan-next-year/

 

[IAJ]

Paul Orndorff, better known as Mr. Wonderful has passed away at the age of 71.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...r-mr-wonderful-brandon-native-passes-away.amp

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what did you think of SummerSlam? Personally I was pretty disappointed. Edge vs. Rollins was the only truly great match on the card. Others were either bad, mediocre or okay matches. Reigns vs. Cena also did not live up to the hype for me. Although the post-match stuff was great.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what did you think of SummerSlam? Personally I was pretty disappointed. Edge vs. Rollins was the only truly great match on the card. Others were either bad, mediocre or okay matches. Reigns vs. Cena also did not live up to the hype for me. Although the post-match stuff was great.

I never watch an entire PPV of anything these days select matches and skip through stuff, Edge/Rollins was great though - they followed up very nicely on their history and it was great to see how Edge countered Seth's ploy to target his neck by doing the same on the counter, two tremendous athletes who produced a high level match and looked like real professionals, Reigns/Cena I thought was a solid main-event - it was designed to put over Reigns and his heel persona, not everyone will be fond of the format but it works, he built heat really nicely and dominated Cena for large portions of the match, Cena made a comeback but failed - if you watch the first encounter these two had and compare it with the SS main event you'd see how good Reigns really is and how he has adapted his ring style to suit his heel character. It was nice to see the fans back in a stadium and it was spectacle after all, I didn't like the Becky squash though - it will hurt Bianca's stock, I don't like the execution of the squash either, it was too pre-meditated unlike a 1 punch KO. I only watched those two matches in full, loved the Brood entrance to and the other match I was looking forward to was the Takeover main-event, Joe performed remarkably well for a man who had added a few pounds and was out of the ring for 18 months! it was an insane performance, he was huffing and puffing but delivered in a very physically demanding match with KK who I imagine will be moving to the main roster full time, Scarlett overshadows him so am fine if she goes solo. I need to watch Walter's match from Takeover and that's about it.

What I've seen over the past few weeks is that guys like Cena, Edge, Punk and even Reigns to a degree operate on another level to stars in the present, their charisma and aura, command in the ring is just incredible. Cena's promo's recently reminded me a great deal of Dusty, Edge has used his experience in TV shows to take his promo work to another level and he is able to convey that in the ring with his story-telling, his ring psychology is even better then it was before!

And listening to Punk's promo, it was classic 101 baby face promo, contrary to what folk may think - it wasn't a shoot at all, there was a structure to it and I genuinely can say this man has no bitterness at all, if WWE went out on a limb to sign him, he would have been happy to join them, Punk has evolved into a shrewd business man with life experience, am sure you've read about what he thinks of the industry today. Anyhow it's a massive shame they are making Punk give Darby the rub, seriously - this Darby guy must be what Brock Lesnar was in the early 2000's ? they are getting Sting and CM Punk to give him the rub. If CM Punk is a baby face, I can't comprehend why you'd not have him trade blows with MJF, what a horrible show rampage was outside Punk's promo and the squad by I think Jade it was poor.

Speaking of Lesnar's comeback as a face, this will make for brilliant story-telling with his feud with Reigns and Heyman in-between the two - much like it was when Brock and Punk traded blows at SS all those years ago - what a match that was!

 

[andy0204]

Heyman is looking a wife who has cheated on his husband .

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I never watch an entire PPV of anything these days select matches and skip through stuff, Edge/Rollins was great though - they followed up very nicely on their history and it was great to see how Edge countered Seth's ploy to target his neck by doing the same on the counter, two tremendous athletes who produced a high level match and looked like real professionals, Reigns/Cena I thought was a solid main-event - it was designed to put over Reigns and his heel persona, not everyone will be fond of the format but it works, he built heat really nicely and dominated Cena for large portions of the match, Cena made a comeback but failed - if you watch the first encounter these two had and compare it with the SS main event you'd see how good Reigns really is and how he has adapted his ring style to suit his heel character. It was nice to see the fans back in a stadium and it was spectacle after all, I didn't like the Becky squash though - it will hurt Bianca's stock, I don't like the execution of the squash either, it was too pre-meditated unlike a 1 punch KO. I only watched those two matches in full, loved the Brood entrance to and the other match I was looking forward to was the Takeover main-event, Joe performed remarkably well for a man who had added a few pounds and was out of the ring for 18 months! it was an insane performance, he was huffing and puffing but delivered in a very physically demanding match with KK who I imagine will be moving to the main roster full time, Scarlett overshadows him so am fine if she goes solo. I need to watch Walter's match from Takeover and that's about it.

What I've seen over the past few weeks is that guys like Cena, Edge, Punk and even Reigns to a degree operate on another level to stars in the present, their charisma and aura, command in the ring is just incredible. Cena's promo's recently reminded me a great deal of Dusty, Edge has used his experience in TV shows to take his promo work to another level and he is able to convey that in the ring with his story-telling, his ring psychology is even better then it was before!

And listening to Punk's promo, it was classic 101 baby face promo, contrary to what folk may think - it wasn't a shoot at all, there was a structure to it and I genuinely can say this man has no bitterness at all, if WWE went out on a limb to sign him, he would have been happy to join them, Punk has evolved into a shrewd business man with life experience, am sure you've read about what he thinks of the industry today. Anyhow it's a massive shame they are making Punk give Darby the rub, seriously - this Darby guy must be what Brock Lesnar was in the early 2000's ? they are getting Sting and CM Punk to give him the rub. If CM Punk is a baby face, I can't comprehend why you'd not have him trade blows with MJF, what a horrible show rampage was outside Punk's promo and the squad by I think Jade it was poor.

Speaking of Lesnar's comeback as a face, this will make for brilliant story-telling with his feud with Reigns and Heyman in-between the two - much like it was when Brock and Punk traded blows at SS all those years ago - what a match that was!

I don't know man, I just didn't like it. It felt way too similar to pretty much every high-profile main-event match that Reigns has had this year. And I did not AT ALL dig Cena constantly going for the roll-up pin. Just felt incredibly stupid and out of place for such a high-profile main event match. Also felt that the match just didn't grip me the same way that Edge vs. Rollins did. And I agree, the Brood entrance was very very cool. Not just because that entrance music is one of the best wrestling entrance themes ever, but also because it was nostalgic without being overdone.

Yet to see TakeOver. I haven't fully caught up with NXT yet. But Joe's win excites me, because how can it not? I always considered him one of the greatest wrestlers of his generation---one that included Punk and Bryan---and its a damn shame how his career was destroyed by Russo and TNA. And from what I've heard he might be in for a long reign as WWE rebrands NXT.

Yeah. I agree. But I feel part of the reason why that is the case for WWE atleast is because they have lost the ability to create stars. Their entire company tends to be focused around 2-3 guys. And everyone else is just an idiot who can get squashed or have his push stopped on any given day when Vince wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. WWE also does not let guys be who they are. They have to micromanage, script, sanitize everything and in the process the essence of a wrestler gets lost in the scuffle.

Reigns himself is the biggest example of this. Here's a guy that WWE essentially created in a laboratory. Everything he said sounded stupid, outdated and phony. Nobody believed he was anything more than a corporate creation. And the moment he got the freedom to essentially do his own promos, he went to a level none of the fans thought he was capable of reaching. Reigns was never the problem. It was Vince's utterly outdated and deluded vision of what he thinks wrestling is.

Just look at Moxley in AEW. He's one of the most over guys in the company and regardless of what you think about his wrestling, I don't think even his harshest critics can deny that when he cuts a promo you believe every word. Could WWE not have made a star out of him? I don't think I need to remind you how they used him in his last year. I mean that Rollins feud was downright embarrassing and cringeworthy to watch.

Very intrigued by/excited for Lesnar vs Reigns Part 7 though. Have a feeling they will finally get it right this time. I reckon it'll go down at Survivor Series.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I never watch an entire PPV of anything these days select matches and skip through stuff, Edge/Rollins was great though - they followed up very nicely on their history and it was great to see how Edge countered Seth's ploy to target his neck by doing the same on the counter, two tremendous athletes who produced a high level match and looked like real professionals, Reigns/Cena I thought was a solid main-event - it was designed to put over Reigns and his heel persona, not everyone will be fond of the format but it works, he built heat really nicely and dominated Cena for large portions of the match, Cena made a comeback but failed - if you watch the first encounter these two had and compare it with the SS main event you'd see how good Reigns really is and how he has adapted his ring style to suit his heel character. It was nice to see the fans back in a stadium and it was spectacle after all, I didn't like the Becky squash though - it will hurt Bianca's stock, I don't like the execution of the squash either, it was too pre-meditated unlike a 1 punch KO. I only watched those two matches in full, loved the Brood entrance to and the other match I was looking forward to was the Takeover main-event, Joe performed remarkably well for a man who had added a few pounds and was out of the ring for 18 months! it was an insane performance, he was huffing and puffing but delivered in a very physically demanding match with KK who I imagine will be moving to the main roster full time, Scarlett overshadows him so am fine if she goes solo. I need to watch Walter's match from Takeover and that's about it.

What I've seen over the past few weeks is that guys like Cena, Edge, Punk and even Reigns to a degree operate on another level to stars in the present, their charisma and aura, command in the ring is just incredible. Cena's promo's recently reminded me a great deal of Dusty, Edge has used his experience in TV shows to take his promo work to another level and he is able to convey that in the ring with his story-telling, his ring psychology is even better then it was before!

And listening to Punk's promo, it was classic 101 baby face promo, contrary to what folk may think - it wasn't a shoot at all, there was a structure to it and I genuinely can say this man has no bitterness at all, if WWE went out on a limb to sign him, he would have been happy to join them, Punk has evolved into a shrewd business man with life experience, am sure you've read about what he thinks of the industry today. Anyhow it's a massive shame they are making Punk give Darby the rub, seriously - this Darby guy must be what Brock Lesnar was in the early 2000's ? they are getting Sting and CM Punk to give him the rub. If CM Punk is a baby face, I can't comprehend why you'd not have him trade blows with MJF, what a horrible show rampage was outside Punk's promo and the squad by I think Jade it was poor.

Speaking of Lesnar's comeback as a face, this will make for brilliant story-telling with his feud with Reigns and Heyman in-between the two - much like it was when Brock and Punk traded blows at SS all those years ago - what a match that was!

A few months ago, I would have agreed with you. But I after seeing AEW alot more frequently, I have grown to like Darby a whole lot more. I may not be his biggest fan, but I get his appeal. To a great extent he's like a smaller, watered down version of Jeff Hardy but also unique in his own way. The size aspect also doesn't bother me as much anymore because it has been normalized to a great extent by modern wrestling and I feel that the ability to be able to work should matter more. And Darby can definitely work.

As Punk's first match I don't mind it at all, eventhough my excitement will be through the roof once he feuds with MJF and Starks. I think with a small build that's focused more on Punk than both guys, it works. And I think the match even has the potential to be a great.

Rampage was all about Punk. The rest of the matches were irrelevant because the whole show was marketed and sold around Punk. And if anything, I'd even say AEW did the right thing by not hotshotting the matchcard because there was no way ANYONE was following that promo. And I think they knew that. Personally speaking, I didn't mind the Moxley match. It was good for what it was: i.e. an under 10 minute TV match. Same for Jade's match which was literally a one minute squash match. The tag match was bad. But I expect to skip atleast one match on Dynamite anyway, so not a big deal.

Overall I have loved Rampage thus far. Its only 45 minutes long which makes it a very easy watch. So far they have delivered one outstanding match/promo on both shows. Christian vs. Kenny Omega on the debut and Punk's promo on the second. So frankly I don't have much to complain about.