The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mustafa Ali likes this post

Hahahha

Funnily enough, he was on RAW last night.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I couldn’t finish the dark side of the ring episode, it’s just so upsetting. I would recommend Jericho’s interview with Sandra Toffolon who is Nancy Benoit’s sister, I recall tearing up listening to that back in 2016ish I think, she paints the most vivid picture and was very close to both

The Dark Side of the Ring two-parter was pretty comprehensive and enough for me to get the whole story...but it was also enough for me to never want to read/listen/watch anything more related to this tragedy.

 

[shaz619]

Hahahha

Funnily enough, he was on RAW last night.

It’s mad how you can’t leave with the standard notice but that’s Merika for you and their fixed term contracts, I’ve not seen RAW but want to check it out for the Orton nostalgia, 20 years of the guy man time goes fast, he still looks like a spring chicken and is a tremendous / under rated worker

 

[shaz619]

The Dark Side of the Ring two-parter was pretty comprehensive and enough for me to get the whole story...but it was also enough for me to never want to read/listen/watch anything more related to this tragedy.

If you manage to find the motivation, listen to that interview I mentioned, it was very gritty and raw; one of the reasons they signed Jericho to narrate big parts of the dark side episodes

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s mad how you can’t leave with the standard notice but that’s Merika for you and their fixed term contracts, I’ve not seen RAW but want to check it out for the Orton nostalgia, 20 years of the guy man time goes fast, he still looks like a spring chicken and is a tremendous / under rated worker

Meh it was alright. Better than your average RAW. Tbh, it was less of an Orton tribute and more of a typical RAW segment where the guy who the segment is about is gradually interrupted by 3-4 people, until the GM finally interrupts them all to set up a multi-man tag match for later in the night.

But yeah what a career this guy has had. So much consistency over such a long period of time and he has only gotten better with age. I really wish they would move him out of this tag-team and just let him loose as that crazy, maniacal heel that we know and love. I really enjoyed him in that role between 2018-20. But it seems like he is enjoying this current thing with Riddle so more power to him. Might as well ride it out for as long as possible.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

Based on tonight's episode it seems like McIntyre will be fodder for Reigns before getting any sort of a chance to dethrone him.

Seems to me like we are probably going to get a 6 Man Tag on the next PPV with the Bloodline taking on McIntyre and RKBro. That would likely set up McIntyre v Reigns for MITB which seems like a big enough match what what is basically their 5th biggest PPV. And if I'm being honest I don't see McIntyre winning that match considering SummerSlam would the next PPV after MITB. And there's no way Reigns isn't headlining that as Champion.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

Based on tonight's episode it seems like McIntyre will be fodder for Reigns before getting any sort of a chance to dethrone him.

Seems to me like we are probably going to get a 6 Man Tag on the next PPV with the Bloodline taking on McIntyre and RKBro. That would likely set up McIntyre v Reigns for MITB which seems like a big enough match what what is basically their 5th biggest PPV. And if I'm being honest I don't see McIntyre winning that match considering SummerSlam would the next PPV after MITB. And there's no way Reigns isn't headlining that as Champion.

I just hope they split the championship as soon as possible. Roman should ideally be competing at both Raw and SD but he isn't anywhere. Will Lesnar win the MITB again and spoil Roman vs Drew there?

They did announce Drew and Rkbro vs The Bloodline at Backlash. The lack of storylines is clearly making the product even more unwatchable. After Drew, they only have Cody, AJ and Randy left to challenge Roman. The Bloodline for me has run it's course.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It's been a long time since I saw those matches but now that you mention it I honestly cannot recall seeing a bad Chris Benoit match from 2002 onwards. I love the point about him wrestling every match as if it were his last. That perfectly captures the kind of wrestler he was. His intensity was well and truly off the charts. I am glad you brought up the 2003 Rumble match because I think its easily one of the greatest wrestling matches ever. I didn't think it was possible for him and Angle to top their match at Unforgiven '02 and then they had this classic.

And yeah, you're right. Especially about his level of consistency. Even in WCW where he was initially pigeonholed as a "cruiserweight" and where guys like Nash and Hogan tried their best to bury him, he managed to rise to the top and capture the World Championship. And this was a time when the WCW belt had some semblance of credibility left and when the main-event was dominated by guys who were all taller or bigger than him.

As a person, I think he's a coward who deserves to rot in hell for what he did. I will never have any respect for him as a human being. But as a wrestler I think he was one of the greatest of all-time. Its a real shame that there is such a dichotomy between those two sides of him. But that's just way it is I guess.

I still can't comprehend Benoit for what he did to his family. Like you don't become a killer all of a sudden unless there is something really really big to trigger it. His autopsy showed that his brain resembled that of an 80 year old with Alzeihmer's and he was suffering from CTE but then it doesn't lead to spontaneous change in personality that makes a person commit two murders.

I think it's overall a good thing that steroid use has been banned in addition to banning dangerous moves that could easily go wrong and wellness policy. Although I don't know the details of their wellness policy.

Did you by chance see the recent video of Toni Storm on an autograph signing or something where she's totally out of her senses and is visibly intoxicated. I hope AEW introduce some wellness policy as well. The same people when drive intoxicated end up doing tragic things.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well seems like WWE are doing all they can to make Drew look as strong as possible against Roman. But sadly he will end up losing to Roman again.

They've paired AJ and Balor for too sweet pops. What do you guys think about Finn Balor's in ring work? I think he's way more fluent and his moves are way more crisp than Seth Rollins. Never once have I seen him botch a move in WWE(main roster atleast). I may be biased, but I think he bears strong resemblance to Chris Benoit in terms of in ring fluidity. He even wrestled as Pegassus Kid 2 back in the day (Benoit was the original Pegassus Kid)

 

[Markhor]

I still can't comprehend Benoit for what he did to his family. Like you don't become a killer all of a sudden unless there is something really really big to trigger it. His autopsy showed that his brain resembled that of an 80 year old with Alzeihmer's and he was suffering from CTE but then it doesn't lead to spontaneous change in personality that makes a person commit two murders.

I think it's overall a good thing that steroid use has been banned in addition to banning dangerous moves that could easily go wrong and wellness policy. Although I don't know the details of their wellness policy.

I believe the death of his best friend Eddie Guerrero (along with other friends such as Ray Traylor and Bad News Allen) accelerated a gradual psychological breakdown.

It's one thing to grieve over the loss of a friend, much less the only person you can confide in. But rewatching those Eddie tributes is extremely uncomfortable as Benoit is bawling hysterically. He should've received psychological help there and then instead of being back on the road.

Combine CTE with heavy drinking and a marriage with Nancy on the rocks, with hindsight the signs were there.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well seems like WWE are doing all they can to make Drew look as strong as possible against Roman. But sadly he will end up losing to Roman again.

They've paired AJ and Balor for too sweet pops. What do you guys think about Finn Balor's in ring work? I think he's way more fluent and his moves are way more crisp than Seth Rollins. Never once have I seen him botch a move in WWE(main roster atleast). I may be biased, but I think he bears strong resemblance to Chris Benoit in terms of in ring fluidity. He even wrestled as Pegassus Kid 2 back in the day (Benoit was the original Pegassus Kid)

I don’t know, they could be testing the waters for cardiff. It wouldn’t surprise me if creative have proposed Drew going over, they could protect Reigns, Tyson is likely to be involved, they could even have him there in an enforcer type role and help Drew, the roof would blow off. Wrestling fans have short attention spans but there are like 4 months or so to build something here, I see it as a positive that Drew is mixing it at the top again opposed to working in the mid card.

I see no comparison between Balor and Benoit if am honest with you, Benoit’s intensity for one is on another scale because he didn’t hold back with his stuff even in WWE, if am just looking all the way back to the 90’s then perhaps his intensity was only matched by Austin and Bret. On the technical side, I’d say Bret and Bryan are of the same mould to be honest. I’d consider seeing more of a comparison between Balor and Eddie though, you make a good point on how flawless his technique is, he’s a guy who is extremely athletic but despite that his ring IQ is very high which allows him to make better choices in the ring and he is great at grappling on the mat to, very under rated and under utilised guy, come to think of it I prefer his ring work to Seth’s

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

Based on tonight's episode it seems like McIntyre will be fodder for Reigns before getting any sort of a chance to dethrone him.

Seems to me like we are probably going to get a 6 Man Tag on the next PPV with the Bloodline taking on McIntyre and RKBro. That would likely set up McIntyre v Reigns for MITB which seems like a big enough match what what is basically their 5th biggest PPV. And if I'm being honest I don't see McIntyre winning that match considering SummerSlam would the next PPV after MITB. And there's no way Reigns isn't headlining that as Champion.

Am hopeful they will do Drew good because he’s back at the top of the card or so it seems, there’s potential to build something towards Cardiff. Back in 2013 Bryan was screwed from genesis to revelations before the big pay off at WM 30. Maybe Reigns could even go over at Cardiff I don’t know but I hope Drew gets a big spot am sure he will, Reigns continuing to retain at this point could also be due to the hope that they can book him against The Rock but that match would be big even without a belt so it would be good if they look at it like that

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I believe the death of his best friend Eddie Guerrero (along with other friends such as Ray Traylor and Bad News Allen) accelerated a gradual psychological breakdown.

It's one thing to grieve over the loss of a friend, much less the only person you can confide in. But rewatching those Eddie tributes is extremely uncomfortable as Benoit is bawling hysterically. He should've received psychological help there and then instead of being back on the road.

Combine CTE with heavy drinking and a marriage with Nancy on the rocks, with hindsight the signs were there.

Plus there's this old promo Benoit did with Kurt where Kurt was making fun of him and then Chris snapped and went on a rant. I saw it some time back and the way he delivered that rant with aggression, knowing what he would go on to do in his last days, that promo is terrifying really.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don’t know, they could be testing the waters for cardiff. It wouldn’t surprise me if creative have proposed Drew going over, they could protect Reigns, Tyson is likely to be involved, they could even have him there in an enforcer type role and help Drew, the roof would blow off. Wrestling fans have short attention spans but there are like 4 months or so to build something here, I see it as a positive that Drew is mixing it at the top again opposed to working in the mid card.

I see no comparison between Balor and Benoit if am honest with you, Benoit’s intensity for one is on another scale because he didn’t hold back with his stuff even in WWE, if am just looking all the way back to the 90’s then perhaps his intensity was only matched by Austin and Bret. On the technical side, I’d say Bret and Bryan are of the same mould to be honest. I’d consider seeing more of a comparison between Balor and Eddie though, you make a good point on how flawless his technique is, he’s a guy who is extremely athletic but despite that his ring IQ is very high which allows him to make better choices in the ring and he is great at grappling on the mat to, very under rated and under utilised guy, come to think of it I prefer his ring work to Seth’s

Maybe, maybe not. Or they could do a swerve and have Tyson go heel.

I don't know I see a lot of resemblance in Balor and Benoit still, his match with Timothy Thatcher reminded me of Malenko vs Benoit. Yes Bryan is very similar to Benoit but probably has better promo skills.

 

[shaz619]

Maybe, maybe not. Or they could do a swerve and have Tyson go heel.

I don't know I see a lot of resemblance in Balor and Benoit still, his match with Timothy Thatcher reminded me of Malenko vs Benoit. Yes Bryan is very similar to Benoit but probably has better promo skills.

Tyson as a heel in Cardiff? that is highly unlikely mate lol but potentially in an Austin/HBK/Mike type scenario perhaps he could aid Drew despite being presented as his rival.

Really, I honestly would never have thought of it, Balor’s energy and presence is perhaps similar to a Sting or a Jeff Hardy and he doesn’t evoke fear or intimidation through his ring psychology given how big a fan favourite he is and that has rarely been his deal, even as the demon, Ciampa is another guy who maybe is a better comparison perhaps for those aspects.

Bryan was not always great on the mic but he improved massively with more experience and he adapted to the audience, Benoit wasn’t the worst and he was good when they didn’t try to make him say something a bit too extravagant for his persona, but fair to say not his strength; that’s one area I’d compare with Balor, neither are known for their talking skills

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Am hopeful they will do Drew good because he’s back at the top of the card or so it seems, there’s potential to build something towards Cardiff. Back in 2013 Bryan was screwed from genesis to revelations before the big pay off at WM 30. Maybe Reigns could even go over at Cardiff I don’t know but I hope Drew gets a big spot am sure he will, Reigns continuing to retain at this point could also be due to the hope that they can book him against The Rock but that match would be big even without a belt so it would be good if they look at it like that

Considering the fact that the show in Cardiff is a PPV, I can definitely see Drew going over. Don't know if he will. But if they want they can have him win the belt there after he loses to Roman at SummerSlam and/or MITB.

If nothing else have Drew win the IC Championship in the main-event ala British Bulldog in 1992. Although I'm not sure that would mean as much considering how meaningless that belt is these days.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well seems like WWE are doing all they can to make Drew look as strong as possible against Roman. But sadly he will end up losing to Roman again.

They've paired AJ and Balor for too sweet pops. What do you guys think about Finn Balor's in ring work? I think he's way more fluent and his moves are way more crisp than Seth Rollins. Never once have I seen him botch a move in WWE(main roster atleast). I may be biased, but I think he bears strong resemblance to Chris Benoit in terms of in ring fluidity. He even wrestled as Pegassus Kid 2 back in the day (Benoit was the original Pegassus Kid)

Roman eventually will have to lose. And I wouldn't be surprised if the guy to beat him is Cody, not Drew. So maybe they are trying to get another guy out of the way. Because to the best of my recollection only Randy, Cody and Drew are the only top level guys that he hasn't beaten yet...and Rollins, although they are probably saving that for a future WrestleMania.

Balor has run his course in the WWE, in my opinion. They are just feeding him to guys. And according to rumors Vince does not think much of him either. I think the time for him to leave might not be far away.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Roman eventually will have to lose. And I wouldn't be surprised if the guy to beat him is Cody, not Drew. So maybe they are trying to get another guy out of the way. Because to the best of my recollection only Randy, Cody and Drew are the only top level guys that he hasn't beaten yet...and Rollins, although they are probably saving that for a future WrestleMania.

Balor has run his course in the WWE, in my opinion. They are just feeding him to guys. And according to rumors Vince does not think much of him either. I think the time for him to leave might not be far away.

But I think with him being settled in US now for 8 plus years, he may not opt to go to Japan. In US, there are basically just AEW and Impact. With AEW's roster being so bloated with the likes of Miro, Christian etc being lost in the shuffle, I don't know what chances are AEW would book Balor well. Same goes for Gargano as well who is probably a better wrestler but a lesser name.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tyson as a heel in Cardiff? that is highly unlikely mate lol but potentially in an Austin/HBK/Mike type scenario perhaps he could aid Drew despite being presented as his rival.

Really, I honestly would never have thought of it, Balor’s energy and presence is perhaps similar to a Sting or a Jeff Hardy and he doesn’t evoke fear or intimidation through his ring psychology given how big a fan favourite he is and that has rarely been his deal, even as the demon, Ciampa is another guy who maybe is a better comparison perhaps for those aspects.

Bryan was not always great on the mic but he improved massively with more experience and he adapted to the audience, Benoit wasn’t the worst and he was good when they didn’t try to make him say something a bit too extravagant for his persona, but fair to say not his strength; that’s one area I’d compare with Balor, neither are known for their talking skills

Don't know but Drew and Fury have been cutting promos at each other so don't know where they are taking it to.
You may be right, I think it's a subjective perception from my side.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But I think with him being settled in US now for 8 plus years, he may not opt to go to Japan. In US, there are basically just AEW and Impact. With AEW's roster being so bloated with the likes of Miro, Christian etc being lost in the shuffle, I don't know what chances are AEW would book Balor well. Same goes for Gargano as well who is probably a better wrestler but a lesser name.

AEW does have certain contracts coming up and I imagine a number of guys will be sent to ROH once they get a TV deal.

The roster is indeed very big and certain guys are getting lost in the shuffle, but one positive of a roster like this is also that guys can take time off and it doesn't hurt the show. Omega and Miro have both been injured for quite some time but their absence has rarely been felt because of the dearth of talent on hand. I do wish Christian was featured more regularly but at the same time I do feel they are building towards a slow heel turn for him so let's see how it goes.

Balor and Cesaro should both lay low for now in my opinion. Balor already has time left on his contract so he should let that run out, and Cesaro should not do anything for atleast 6 months. But when the time is right both should eventually come to AEW, because I feel their awesome talents would be wasted anywhere else they go to.

 

[shaz619]

Considering the fact that the show in Cardiff is a PPV, I can definitely see Drew going over. Don't know if he will. But if they want they can have him win the belt there after he loses to Roman at SummerSlam and/or MITB.

If nothing else have Drew win the IC Championship in the main-event ala British Bulldog in 1992. Although I'm not sure that would mean as much considering how meaningless that belt is these days.

I don’t think it will be a PPV mate, it’s being build as a live event ‘Clash at the Castle’ based of one of the biggest tourist attractions in Cardiff which is Cardiff Castle. They are putting it over as the first stadium event over here in 30 years. It will still air live on the network but am sort of reconsidering going now, it would have been a no brainer if it were a PPV, it will still be pretty good though and I hope they don’t put all their cards on Tyson Fury who is a massive draw because we might miss the wrestling surprises like we got at the last mania, in Australia they got to see Taker work, sure past his best but these stadium shows are a spectacle and if done right they can hit the right notes. Am also not sure now on the level of pay off Drew will get

 

[shaz619]

AEW does have certain contracts coming up and I imagine a number of guys will be sent to ROH once they get a TV deal.

The roster is indeed very big and certain guys are getting lost in the shuffle, but one positive of a roster like this is also that guys can take time off and it doesn't hurt the show. Omega and Miro have both been injured for quite some time but their absence has rarely been felt because of the dearth of talent on hand. I do wish Christian was featured more regularly but at the same time I do feel they are building towards a slow heel turn for him so let's see how it goes.

Balor and Cesaro should both lay low for now in my opinion. Balor already has time left on his contract so he should let that run out, and Cesaro should not do anything for atleast 6 months. But when the time is right both should eventually come to AEW, because I feel their awesome talents would be wasted anywhere else they go to.

There may be some life left in a Balor run but he needs to improve his mic skills, the Irish accent doesn’t help but he is a bit too vanilla when talking if we’re being honest because Sheamus is proof he can be decent. It’s harder as a face but maybe have him turn and then build on that but he lacks Charisma unless he does the demon shtick, and that’s something to build on though, even in NXT he was protected. How long can he do the demon stuff and stay relevant? that applies beyond WWE, all these years Balor had the chance to reinvent himself a little bit to keep audience engaged when his alter ego isn’t activated, but I’ve not seen anything from him. Look at what Bryan was when he came in and how he evolved, the guy did it all. Balor is fantastic in the ring but he’s not over on the Bret or Benoit level to mask some of his flaws but his alter ego sometimes helps.

I realised I can watch full episodes of AEW on FTA over here but it’s not live, not that I’d stay up from 1am. I caught the opening match last week which was great, they I saw two big heavyweights in a spot fest wrestle like they are cruserweight, you can somewhat justify it that they are both big and makes sense to go all out but am not overly a fan of that, even moreso on a regular TV episode, it takes away psychology and realism from the work in the ring and dumbs the fans down to because they want someone the size of a Big Show to work the same way which is ridiculous

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There may be some life left in a Balor run but he needs to improve his mic skills, the Irish accent doesn’t help but he is a bit too vanilla when talking if we’re being honest because Sheamus is proof he can be decent. It’s harder as a face but maybe have him turn and then build on that but he lacks Charisma unless he does the demon shtick, and that’s something to build on though, even in NXT he was protected. How long can he do the demon stuff and stay relevant? that applies beyond WWE, all these years Balor had the chance to reinvent himself a little bit to keep audience engaged when his alter ego isn’t activated, but I’ve not seen anything from him. Look at what Bryan was when he came in and how he evolved, the guy did it all. Balor is fantastic in the ring but he’s not over on the Bret or Benoit level to mask some of his flaws but his alter ego sometimes helps.

I realised I can watch full episodes of AEW on FTA over here but it’s not live, not that I’d stay up from 1am. I caught the opening match last week which was great, they I saw two big heavyweights in a spot fest wrestle like they are cruserweight, you can somewhat justify it that they are both big and makes sense to go all out but am not overly a fan of that, even moreso on a regular TV episode, it takes away psychology and realism from the work in the ring and dumbs the fans down to because they want someone the size of a Big Show to work the same way which is ridiculous

I don't know man, Balor is pretty charismatic in my opinion. Is super over with the crowd even when he is booked like a jobber. Every time his music hits, he gets big enough pops. He was treated very well in NXT, especially in his 2019-21 run, he felt like a star attraction there. I do agree with the promo skills though, it's a bit hard to buy into his serious promos when he keeps getting beaten, plus he's made to do that cheesy smile in the main roster so much. I don't agree with the Irish accent though, Becky is super over with her Irish accent. I can actually sense a heel turn from Balor on AJ at Backlash. He might go on and join Edge's faction. There are rumors of Alexa/Rhea and Ciampa joining the faction as well.

If you remember, Edge's post Rumble promos featured Demons, Phenomenal and Live Forever referencing Finn, AJ and Priest.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

AEW does have certain contracts coming up and I imagine a number of guys will be sent to ROH once they get a TV deal.

The roster is indeed very big and certain guys are getting lost in the shuffle, but one positive of a roster like this is also that guys can take time off and it doesn't hurt the show. Omega and Miro have both been injured for quite some time but their absence has rarely been felt because of the dearth of talent on hand. I do wish Christian was featured more regularly but at the same time I do feel they are building towards a slow heel turn for him so let's see how it goes.

Balor and Cesaro should both lay low for now in my opinion. Balor already has time left on his contract so he should let that run out, and Cesaro should not do anything for atleast 6 months. But when the time is right both should eventually come to AEW, because I feel their awesome talents would be wasted anywhere else they go to.

Cesaro not doing anything for 6 months would hurt his finances I believe unless he decides to go back to british indie scene for some time. Bray is able to not wrestle because he was on a big lucrative deal with high merch sales and he had 3 months where he would be paid by WWE post release. Cesaro's contract basically just expired so he won't have any of those perks.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Cesaro not doing anything for 6 months would hurt his finances I believe unless he decides to go back to british indie scene for some time. Bray is able to not wrestle because he was on a big lucrative deal with high merch sales and he had 3 months where he would be paid by WWE post release. Cesaro's contract basically just expired so he won't have any of those perks.

I just don't believe that. Anyone who works for WWE is not someone who is sweating financially. Even the guys at the bottom of the card oftentimes tend to be millionaires. And I'm fairly certain that Cesaro who has worked there for the past 9 years is not someone who is worrying what he will do if he doesn't get work for a year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There may be some life left in a Balor run but he needs to improve his mic skills, the Irish accent doesn’t help but he is a bit too vanilla when talking if we’re being honest because Sheamus is proof he can be decent. It’s harder as a face but maybe have him turn and then build on that but he lacks Charisma unless he does the demon shtick, and that’s something to build on though, even in NXT he was protected. How long can he do the demon stuff and stay relevant? that applies beyond WWE, all these years Balor had the chance to reinvent himself a little bit to keep audience engaged when his alter ego isn’t activated, but I’ve not seen anything from him. Look at what Bryan was when he came in and how he evolved, the guy did it all. Balor is fantastic in the ring but he’s not over on the Bret or Benoit level to mask some of his flaws but his alter ego sometimes helps.

I realised I can watch full episodes of AEW on FTA over here but it’s not live, not that I’d stay up from 1am. I caught the opening match last week which was great, they I saw two big heavyweights in a spot fest wrestle like they are cruserweight, you can somewhat justify it that they are both big and makes sense to go all out but am not overly a fan of that, even moreso on a regular TV episode, it takes away psychology and realism from the work in the ring and dumbs the fans down to because they want someone the size of a Big Show to work the same way which is ridiculous

I dunno man. I don't see much hope for him in this company. For Sheamus it was always more about the size and the fact that he had decent ring ability. During his early days when he was at the top of the card his promo skills were non-existent.

I don't agree on Balor though. I think he has the ability to do well on the mic. as we saw during his heel run in NXT. But he has rarely been given an enabling environment where he can truly shine.

That's great. I actually haven't caught up with last few weeks of Dynamite so I can't comment much on what you are talking about. But that has tended to be an issue with AEW. Some see it as a buffet of different meals, others see it as a styles clash.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno man. I don't see much hope for him in this company. For Sheamus it was always more about the size and the fact that he had decent ring ability. During his early days when he was at the top of the card his promo skills were non-existent.

I don't agree on Balor though. I think he has the ability to do well on the mic. as we saw during his heel run in NXT. But he has rarely been given an enabling environment where he can truly shine.

That's great. I actually haven't caught up with last few weeks of Dynamite so I can't comment much on what you are talking about. But that has tended to be an issue with AEW. Some see it as a buffet of different meals, others see it as a styles clash.

He wasn’t bad at all then and his ring work is severely under rated, even now he holds back a great deal but his European strong style is great to watch. But over the years he has improved as a package, the guy got fans to pop for an under fire Reigns in philly; he is excellent at his job.

That’s what I mean, naturally he was going to do better because it’s easier to cut promos as a heel, I’d have thought he’d take confidence from that and build on it, if Vince didn’t care he’d have got rid of him some time back, others who are a better fit have been long gone but my point is with his new opportunity he needs to evolve himself beyond thinking of which new face paint to use. Vince gets way too much stick these days, it takes away from the individual performer and his need to improve. It could be a lot worse. When we look at the guys from the golden era of the indies or even the ROH crop that came later, they adapted and did well; who’d have thought Sami Zayn would be over as a heel? or that Owens would be champion / main event mania, or that Joe would work a program with Lesnar and then the likes of Punk/Bryan did really well, AJ Styles built on his north american experience and got better. NXT was an easy way out for Balor but he should set bigger goals and bet on himself, the stuff with Styles seems intriguing maybe he can turn on him or something, if he feels a heel run is what he needs he should bat for it, Punk did that, Bryan did it too and ended up becoming pretty influential backstage and it wasn’t because of the bellas or Cena, he earned respect.

The match I meant was Wardlow vs the guy managed by Jake Roberts

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He wasn’t bad at all then and his ring work is severely under rated, even now he holds back a great deal but his European strong style is great to watch. But over the years he has improved as a package, the guy got fans to pop for an under fire Reigns in philly; he is excellent at his job.

That’s what I mean, naturally he was going to do better because it’s easier to cut promos as a heel, I’d have thought he’d take confidence from that and build on it, if Vince didn’t care he’d have got rid of him some time back, others who are a better fit have been long gone but my point is with his new opportunity he needs to evolve himself beyond thinking of which new face paint to use. Vince gets way too much stick these days, it takes away from the individual performer and his need to improve. It could be a lot worse. When we look at the guys from the golden era of the indies or even the ROH crop that came later, they adapted and did well; who’d have thought Sami Zayn would be over as a heel? or that Owens would be champion / main event mania, or that Joe would work a program with Lesnar and then the likes of Punk/Bryan did really well, AJ Styles built on his north american experience and got better. NXT was an easy way out for Balor but he should set bigger goals and bet on himself, the stuff with Styles seems intriguing maybe he can turn on him or something, if he feels a heel run is what he needs he should bat for it, Punk did that, Bryan did it too and ended up becoming pretty influential backstage and it wasn’t because of the bellas or Cena, he earned respect.

The match I meant was Wardlow vs the guy managed by Jake Roberts

You're saying who would have thought Zayn could be such a good heel? I'm saying who would have thought Zayn could be such a talented promo considering he wrestled as a mute in a mask for most of his career.

But when I look at the guys you mentioned, for me, they are simply better all-round talents than Balor. That doesn't mean though that Balor is not great. He has his limitations, but for what he is, he's fantastic. The same applies to Cesaro in a different sense. He is not on the level of the guys you mentioned because his promo skills are terrible. But that doesn't mean he isn't an incredible wrestler. Infact, I can think of a very few people currently working right now who are better in the ring than Cesaro.

But again I'll reiterate ever since that NXT run Balor has been booked like a mid-undercarder. And I don't feel he can be blamed for his booking. Even if he does have different ideas on doing something new, there's no telling that Vince or creative will look at them the say way. If you're seen as a midcarder/undercarder by Vince there's very little chance he will care what you think anyway.

That said, I do agree with you that if he feels he is being wasted than he should take it up with Vince. Simply going through the motions will only hurt him in the long-run. If you are good enough you should have the confidence to bet on yourself and know that you can succeed elsewhere if things don't work out in a particular place.

You must be talking about Lance Archer. If I were you I would give up trying to make sense of his matches. He is one of those guys like Brian Cage who does not understand a damn thing about in-ring psychology. His gimmick is that he is this supposedly unhinged monster. So oftentimes before/during is matches he will beat up security or guys from camera crew in the absolute fakest ways possible. Like chokeslamming one guy over three others. Or taking a planted jobber from the crowd and beating him up to give the indication that he is beating up a fan. This guy is as fake as it gets.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I was randomly browsing through a wrestling website the other day and came across an interview from Davey Richards. In the interview he stated that he had been offered a contract 3 times by WWE and once by AEW and he turned them all down because he doesn't like a life on the road or wrestling anything less than 15-20 minute matches, which he gets to with MLW.

While I obviously respect his decision I can't help but think about how greatly he would have elevated AEW if he was there during those first two years, when their talent roster was absolutely paper-thin. With WWE I'm guessing he was offered a contact with NXT and even there I'm certain he would have lit the place up by having great matches with all the great talents that were there.

Davey is one of those guys who sadly will never get the kind of appreciation he truly deserves because he never wrestled in a major North American promotion. Which is such a shame in my view because honestly if you wanna talk about someone who was the closest thing to Benoit it was this guy. Whenever I saw him wrestle I couldn't help but think of Benoit. Alot of people compared him to Dynamite Kid too, whom Benoit resembled greatly and was inspired by aswell. At his peak in ROH, Richards for me had everything as a wrestler and was probably one of the first guys to incorporate that MMA style into wrestling.

Some of the matches he had with Rollins, Edwards, Aries, Danielson, along with the tag team matches he and Edwards had as the American Wolves are arguably some of the greatest in ROH's long and storied history. And then obviously there is his work in NOAH and New Japan that's also worth looking at too.

The post 2007 period was a really uncertain time for ROH. Because those seminal stars were all gone now. Punk and Joe had left long ago, while Danielson and McGuinness were on their way out. But in guys like Richards, Edwards, Steen, Generico, Rollins/Tyler Black they found a new generation of top-level in-ring talent. And no one out of those guys was as good as Davey.

Which is why its such a shame for me that he didn't reach the heights he should have reached.

 

[shaz619]

You're saying who would have thought Zayn could be such a good heel? I'm saying who would have thought Zayn could be such a talented promo considering he wrestled as a mute in a mask for most of his career.

But when I look at the guys you mentioned, for me, they are simply better all-round talents than Balor. That doesn't mean though that Balor is not great. He has his limitations, but for what he is, he's fantastic. The same applies to Cesaro in a different sense. He is not on the level of the guys you mentioned because his promo skills are terrible. But that doesn't mean he isn't an incredible wrestler. Infact, I can think of a very few people currently working right now who are better in the ring than Cesaro.

But again I'll reiterate ever since that NXT run Balor has been booked like a mid-undercarder. And I don't feel he can be blamed for his booking. Even if he does have different ideas on doing something new, there's no telling that Vince or creative will look at them the say way. If you're seen as a midcarder/undercarder by Vince there's very little chance he will care what you think anyway.

That said, I do agree with you that if he feels he is being wasted than he should take it up with Vince. Simply going through the motions will only hurt him in the long-run. If you are good enough you should have the confidence to bet on yourself and know that you can succeed elsewhere if things don't work out in a particular place.

You must be talking about Lance Archer. If I were you I would give up trying to make sense of his matches. He is one of those guys like Brian Cage who does not understand a damn thing about in-ring psychology. His gimmick is that he is this supposedly unhinged monster. So oftentimes before/during is matches he will beat up security or guys from camera crew in the absolute fakest ways possible. Like chokeslamming one guy over three others. Or taking a planted jobber from the crowd and beating him up to give the indication that he is beating up a fan. This guy is as fake as it gets.

When I mentioned Zayn I was also going off his amazing babyface run in NXT, that run rivals Bryan’s face run in 2013, that was peak NXT. He cut some incredible promos as a face, Hunter has said the same where he was strongly against booking him as a heel but the agents on SD had other ideas, Sami was on board with it all and ended up thriving in his new role and took it to another level lol

Thing is in the NA territory, unless you’re an ATG in the ring, you need a decent pedigree on the mic and have a knack for strong character work. Cesaro as good as he is, doesn’t have a high ceiling in the current WWE set up. While I see where you’re coming from on Balor, I just don’t think the higher ups have damaged him beyond repair or have a certain perception, whether or not they have changed their minds he is a guy they had go over for the world title on his first PPV match I believe and it may have been his first on the main roster? he can look to tap into that initial faith. Beyond that he has spent too much time on the shelf and i know its not always his fault but the guy could present himself better, make best use of his screen time and if he feels he could be booked better, speak up to Vince. Bryan was never afraid to speak his mind or push the limits. Those guys I mentioned I agree are multi talented but not all were blessed with great character work or mic ability but they improved, and that’s also the toughest aspects in the WWE set up, you need to be more then a good ring worker to succeed, that’s why I see that even a consistent spot in the upper mid card is a success and most who break through beyond that often end up among the greats.


I saw Wardlow booked like a beast in some segments then he is working like Jeff Hardy in that match? what are AEW trying to build here lol and Archer has potential but some of the stuff he does makes little sense

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I was randomly browsing through a wrestling website the other day and came across an interview from Davey Richards. In the interview he stated that he had been offered a contract 3 times by WWE and once by AEW and he turned them all down because he doesn't like a life on the road or wrestling anything less than 15-20 minute matches, which he gets to with MLW.

While I obviously respect his decision I can't help but think about how greatly he would have elevated AEW if he was there during those first two years, when their talent roster was absolutely paper-thin. With WWE I'm guessing he was offered a contact with NXT and even there I'm certain he would have lit the place up by having great matches with all the great talents that were there.

Davey is one of those guys who sadly will never get the kind of appreciation he truly deserves because he never wrestled in a major North American promotion. Which is such a shame in my view because honestly if you wanna talk about someone who was the closest thing to Benoit it was this guy. Whenever I saw him wrestle I couldn't help but think of Benoit. Alot of people compared him to Dynamite Kid too, whom Benoit resembled greatly and was inspired by aswell. At his peak in ROH, Richards for me had everything as a wrestler and was probably one of the first guys to incorporate that MMA style into wrestling.

Some of the matches he had with Rollins, Edwards, Aries, Danielson, along with the tag team matches he and Edwards had as the American Wolves are arguably some of the greatest in ROH's long and storied history. And then obviously there is his work in NOAH and New Japan that's also worth looking at too.

The post 2007 period was a really uncertain time for ROH. Because those seminal stars were all gone now. Punk and Joe had left long ago, while Danielson and McGuinness were on their way out. But in guys like Richards, Edwards, Steen, Generico, Rollins/Tyler Black they found a new generation of top-level in-ring talent. And no one out of those guys was as good as Davey.

Which is why its such a shame for me that he didn't reach the heights he should have reached.

I haven’t watched enough of his matches if am honest with you or followed his career. What would you recommend ? but he’s old enough to still have a big run. Styles and Batista won the big one pretty late in WWE.

Styles was widely regarded as an ATG ring performer before he came to the company, so that was always going to help him get over initially and gain faith, beyond that he developed himself further as a character but he had peer support across the board for his ring work.

Is this Davey guy as special in the ring ? or does he have all round pedigree which is of the main event calibre. Him not signing with AEW or WWE could also be out of insecurity and doubt. Styles could have had the same mentality but one thing we overlook is self belief, grit and determination, Styles doesn’t give up

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Davey Richards was basically part of that ROH class of the late 2000s that included guys like Tyler Black/Seth Rollins, Kevin Steen, El Generico/Zayn, Eddie Edwards and to a lesser extend, Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilly. After the departure of Danielson, Punk, Joe, McGuinness, Homicide these guys helped continue ROH's reputation of being essentially the best pro-wrestling company in North America. And they did that by putting on quality level matches on a consistent basis, just like their predecessors.

Richards in particular was someone who was at the top of the card for most of this period. He was among the handful of people that Cornette was a big fan of while he was booker. And Richards was someone who really brought something new with his style of wrestling...which was fast-paced, heavily focused on striking and submissions and significantly influenced by MMA and Japanese strong-style. Its the kind of style that Kyle O'Reilly and many others started getting influenced by/doing later swell. But what made him incredible for me was the intensity and hard-hitting style that he brought to the ring. Which is one of the reasons why he reminded me of Benoit so much. And he was a pretty good promo aswell.

For a long period of time he was part of a tag team with his real life friend Eddie Edwards known as the American Wolves. But he also had a lengthy run ROH World Champion for nearly a year.

If you want to see some of his matches to get an idea of what I am talking about I would heavily recommend the following:

- Tyler Black v Davey Richards, ROH Death Before Dishonor VIII 2010 (Arguably one of the greatest wrestling matches of the last 20 years)
- Davey Richards v Kevin Steen, ROH Border Wars 2012 (Closest thing to Punk v Cena at MITB '11...only this one was in Canada instead of Chicago)
- reDRagon (Fish & O'Reilly) v American Wolves (Richards & Edwards). ROH Supercard of Honor VII 2013
- Davey Richards v Eddie Edwards - ROH Best in the World 2011
- Bryan Danielson v Davey Richards - ROH The Final Countdown Tour Boston 2008 (One of Bryan's final matches in ROH)

After ROH he went to TNA, at a time when TNA was completely fizzled out. And since then he has wrestled on the indies and MLW. Based on his views he does not seem like someone who has been that committed to making it big and seems like someone who is in it just to wrestle. He has talked about how TNA was good to him which is why he didn't leave for greener pastures and how the line between the major leagues and the indies is blurring which is why he doesn't care about going to a big name promotion and wants to wrestle where it is convenient for him...which is a real shame because me and alot of other people thought he was destined for greatness.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I haven’t watched enough of his matches if am honest with you or followed his career. What would you recommend ? but he’s old enough to still have a big run. Styles and Batista won the big one pretty late in WWE.

Styles was widely regarded as an ATG ring performer before he came to the company, so that was always going to help him get over initially and gain faith, beyond that he developed himself further as a character but he had peer support across the board for his ring work.

Is this Davey guy as special in the ring ? or does he have all round pedigree which is of the main event calibre. Him not signing with AEW or WWE could also be out of insecurity and doubt. Styles could have had the same mentality but one thing we overlook is self belief, grit and determination, Styles doesn’t give up

Davey Richards was basically part of that ROH class of the late 2000s that included guys like Tyler Black/Seth Rollins, Kevin Steen, El Generico/Zayn, Eddie Edwards and to a lesser extend, Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilly. After the departure of Danielson, Punk, Joe, McGuinness, Homicide these guys helped continue ROH's reputation of being essentially the best pro-wrestling company in North America. And they did that by putting on quality level matches on a consistent basis, just like their predecessors.

Richards in particular was someone who was at the top of the card for most of this period. He was among the handful of people that Cornette was a big fan of while he was booker. And Richards was someone who really brought something new with his style of wrestling...which was fast-paced, heavily focused on striking and submissions and significantly influenced by MMA and Japanese strong-style. Its the kind of style that Kyle O'Reilly and many others started getting influenced by/doing later swell. But what made him incredible for me was the intensity and hard-hitting style that he brought to the ring. Which is one of the reasons why he reminded me of Benoit so much. And he was a pretty good promo aswell.

For a long period of time he was part of a tag team with his real life friend Eddie Edwards known as the American Wolves. But he also had a lengthy run ROH World Champion for nearly a year.

If you want to see some of his matches to get an idea of what I am talking about I would heavily recommend the following:

- Tyler Black v Davey Richards, ROH Death Before Dishonor VIII 2010 (Arguably one of the greatest wrestling matches of the last 20 years)
- Davey Richards v Kevin Steen, ROH Border Wars 2012 (Closest thing to Punk v Cena at MITB '11...only this one was in Canada instead of Chicago)
- reDRagon (Fish & O'Reilly) v American Wolves (Richards & Edwards). ROH Supercard of Honor VII 2013
- Davey Richards v Eddie Edwards - ROH Best in the World 2011
- Bryan Danielson v Davey Richards - ROH The Final Countdown Tour Boston 2008 (One of Bryan's final matches in ROH)

After ROH he went to TNA, at a time when TNA was completely fizzled out. And since then he has wrestled on the indies and MLW. Based on his views he does not seem like someone who has been that committed to making it big and seems like someone who is in it just to wrestle. He has talked about how TNA was good to him which is why he didn't leave for greener pastures and how the line between the major leagues and the indies is blurring which is why he doesn't care about going to a big name promotion and wants to wrestle where it is convenient for him...which is a real shame because me and alot of other people thought he was destined for greatness.


Styles did have a similar mentality to him when he was in TNA initially. But Styles' thinking changed over time. This is just my opinion but I think Davey Richards at his peak was as good as any wrestler on the planet. Like Styles and Benoit he lacked the height. But he more than made up for it in the ring. He was a main-event caliber wrestler 10 years ago and if he wanted to he could be one today as well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Here's the link to Davey Richards v Tyler Black: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKDmtiU0v0E

Quality is not so good, but it is watchable. You might be able to find some pf the other matches on Dailymotion, if not YouTube...though I'm not 100% sure.

But out of all the matches I mentioned, this match in my opinion, is an absolute must-see for anyone who loves professional wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

When I mentioned Zayn I was also going off his amazing babyface run in NXT, that run rivals Bryan’s face run in 2013, that was peak NXT. He cut some incredible promos as a face, Hunter has said the same where he was strongly against booking him as a heel but the agents on SD had other ideas, Sami was on board with it all and ended up thriving in his new role and took it to another level lol

Thing is in the NA territory, unless you’re an ATG in the ring, you need a decent pedigree on the mic and have a knack for strong character work. Cesaro as good as he is, doesn’t have a high ceiling in the current WWE set up. While I see where you’re coming from on Balor, I just don’t think the higher ups have damaged him beyond repair or have a certain perception, whether or not they have changed their minds he is a guy they had go over for the world title on his first PPV match I believe and it may have been his first on the main roster? he can look to tap into that initial faith. Beyond that he has spent too much time on the shelf and i know its not always his fault but the guy could present himself better, make best use of his screen time and if he feels he could be booked better, speak up to Vince. Bryan was never afraid to speak his mind or push the limits. Those guys I mentioned I agree are multi talented but not all were blessed with great character work or mic ability but they improved, and that’s also the toughest aspects in the WWE set up, you need to be more then a good ring worker to succeed, that’s why I see that even a consistent spot in the upper mid card is a success and most who break through beyond that often end up among the greats.


I saw Wardlow booked like a beast in some segments then he is working like Jeff Hardy in that match? what are AEW trying to build here lol and Archer has potential but some of the stuff he does makes little sense

Yeah no doubt he was brilliant in that NXT run. And credit should indeed be given to Hunter and the others responsible for running NXT during that time too. They did long-term storytelling with him. They told a story which was pretty basic i.e. the underdog not being able to win the big one. But sometimes its those simple stories that work the best if executed properly. And rather than cashing out immediately they milked it. With the passage of time Zayn got more and more over because the people related with him. At the end it was probably a case an incredible talent and an enabling environment working hand in hand to get a desired result. And it all culminated beautifully with that Neville match at the R Evolution PPV. That whole arc is probably one of my all-time favorite ones in WWE and NXT.

I don't think Balor is damaged beyond repair. Because I do feel perception wise he is perceived well by the crowd. Let's not forget he was very popular with the crowd till he was last on the main roster back in 2018-19. I just feel that he is someone who is not going to change Vince's opinion of him. And based on everything I have heard about Vince and based on everything I have seen on WWE TV in the last year or so he seems to be doubling down on his old notions about wrestling rather than progressing. He showed some signs of progressing in 2016 when he made a conscious effort to listen to the fans. And as a result the product was probably the best it had been in atleast a decade or so. But since 2017 he has been mostly off his rocker imo.

I haven't see the match so I can't comment much but Wardlow is fairly green so whatever he did he was probably instructed to do. The problem is that there are a number of guys in AEW who have this mentality. Brian Cage is by far the best example. He is another Mr. 'get my sh*t in'. Here is a guy who is 260+ pounds, totally jacked up but wrestles like a Cruiserweight doing 'ranas, drop-kicks and dives off the top rope. Watch any match of his and whatever Archer or Wardlow are doing will seem like nothing in comparison.

This is an unfortunate side-effect of having too many guys on your roster who only ever wrestled on the indies. On the indies stuff like this probably made them unique and popular. But sadly what guys like Cage and Archer don't know is that this kind of stuff does not make much sense from a psychology point of view. It reminds me of the time Big Show went to the top rope for a dive and a friend of mine who I was watching with rightly asked why the hell is going to the top rope? he is a 500 pound giant! You think Brock Lesnar with his speed and agility can't wrestle like a Cruiserweight? Ofcourse he can. But there is a reason that he chooses not to.

I just hope Wardlow has the right people in his ear and not idiots who understanding of the wrestling business never reached full maturity. He has the potential to be a massive star and if I'm honest he reminds me alot of Batista who was somewhat limited in the ring when he was coming up but looked like a star and had that aura about him too.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Here's the link to Davey Richards v Tyler Black: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKDmtiU0v0E

Quality is not so good, but it is watchable. You might be able to find some pf the other matches on Dailymotion, if not YouTube...though I'm not 100% sure.

But out of all the matches I mentioned, this match in my opinion, is an absolute must-see for anyone who loves professional wrestling.

Bro this guy rings a bell from TNA but I strongly disagree with putting him anywhere near the all time greats like Bryan, Joe, Punk and AJ Styles; long before WWE or national north american exposure these guys were highly regarded by their peers and those who had been in the industry a long time, you watch them work and you could just tell they have that special X-Factor, watch Styles on some dark shows for WWF during early 2000’s I think against Hurricane (Jim Ross offered him a contract, one of the best talent scouts of all time), in WCW you could see his quality and especially I think TNA’s 1st or second PPV under the NWA umbrella in that infamous match against Jerry Lyn, I know Mike Tennay and Jon West can sometimes be argued as over-selling but man, they weren’t mincing their words when putting AJ Styles over and appreciating his unique skills. Bryan was establishing himself as the best technical wrestler in the world and competing with Benoit for that gong, my god those were the days and the thing is, all these guys proved their special capabilities in WWE which is one of the toughest territories to adapt to but personified ATG’s find a way. Dave Meltzer is heavily biased towards anything non-WWE, but for indication he is a good source for picking out high quality performers in those days but I don’t think Davey got much love from him or WON readers

 

[shaz619]

Yeah no doubt he was brilliant in that NXT run. And credit should indeed be given to Hunter and the others responsible for running NXT during that time too. They did long-term storytelling with him. They told a story which was pretty basic i.e. the underdog not being able to win the big one. But sometimes its those simple stories that work the best if executed properly. And rather than cashing out immediately they milked it. With the passage of time Zayn got more and more over because the people related with him. At the end it was probably a case an incredible talent and an enabling environment working hand in hand to get a desired result. And it all culminated beautifully with that Neville match at the R Evolution PPV. That whole arc is probably one of my all-time favorite ones in WWE and NXT.

I don't think Balor is damaged beyond repair. Because I do feel perception wise he is perceived well by the crowd. Let's not forget he was very popular with the crowd till he was last on the main roster back in 2018-19. I just feel that he is someone who is not going to change Vince's opinion of him. And based on everything I have heard about Vince and based on everything I have seen on WWE TV in the last year or so he seems to be doubling down on his old notions about wrestling rather than progressing. He showed some signs of progressing in 2016 when he made a conscious effort to listen to the fans. And as a result the product was probably the best it had been in atleast a decade or so. But since 2017 he has been mostly off his rocker imo.

I haven't see the match so I can't comment much but Wardlow is fairly green so whatever he did he was probably instructed to do. The problem is that there are a number of guys in AEW who have this mentality. Brian Cage is by far the best example. He is another Mr. 'get my sh*t in'. Here is a guy who is 260+ pounds, totally jacked up but wrestles like a Cruiserweight doing 'ranas, drop-kicks and dives off the top rope. Watch any match of his and whatever Archer or Wardlow are doing will seem like nothing in comparison.

This is an unfortunate side-effect of having too many guys on your roster who only ever wrestled on the indies. On the indies stuff like this probably made them unique and popular. But sadly what guys like Cage and Archer don't know is that this kind of stuff does not make much sense from a psychology point of view. It reminds me of the time Big Show went to the top rope for a dive and a friend of mine who I was watching with rightly asked why the hell is going to the top rope? he is a 500 pound giant! You think Brock Lesnar with his speed and agility can't wrestle like a Cruiserweight? Ofcourse he can. But there is a reason that he chooses not to.

I just hope Wardlow has the right people in his ear and not idiots who understanding of the wrestling business never reached full maturity. He has the potential to be a massive star and if I'm honest he reminds me alot of Batista who was somewhat limited in the ring when he was coming up but looked like a star and had that aura about him too.

Btw I watched some matches from Backlash it looks a real fun show.

The issues or expectations I had at mania were met on this PPV

I told you I had high expectations from Ronda/Charlotte and for one reason or another things didn’t click at mania but they had one of the best womens matches of the year, the intensity from both was incredible, this is what I love about wrestling when it’s made to feel like a real fight and blurs the lines between fiction and reality, this was Ronda’s second match in ages so her rhythm was better and Charlotte can be a moody performer but no one can work like her, I keep saying it but she is a once in a generation performer

I didn’t like the Cody/Seth match as much as others at mania and that was because I knew they were capable of better, I didn’t see any botchmania in this match, they kept things simple and focussed on story a bit more, they had the crowd which helps but boy do these two have chemistry, fantastic match

The main event reminded me of those fun dark main events from days of old, everyone got their stuff in, the match never overstayed it’s welcome, that Randy hot tag was incredible, everyones timing was on point and it was a great way to send the crowd home happy, there are some things which only WWE can get right when they fire on all cylinders

Am going to watch the Edge match tonight

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Btw I watched some matches from Backlash it looks a real fun show.

The issues or expectations I had at mania were met on this PPV

I told you I had high expectations from Ronda/Charlotte and for one reason or another things didn’t click at mania but they had one of the best womens matches of the year, the intensity from both was incredible, this is what I love about wrestling when it’s made to feel like a real fight and blurs the lines between fiction and reality, this was Ronda’s second match in ages so her rhythm was better and Charlotte can be a moody performer but no one can work like her, I keep saying it but she is a once in a generation performer

I didn’t like the Cody/Seth match as much as others at mania and that was because I knew they were capable of better, I didn’t see any botchmania in this match, they kept things simple and focussed on story a bit more, they had the crowd which helps but boy do these two have chemistry, fantastic match

The main event reminded me of those fun dark main events from days of old, everyone got their stuff in, the match never overstayed it’s welcome, that Randy hot tag was incredible, everyones timing was on point and it was a great way to send the crowd home happy, there are some things which only WWE can get right when they fire on all cylinders

Am going to watch the Edge match tonight

It's going to be a relief not watching annoying Charlotte's promos for a while now. God her voice and tone of her promos make my ears bleed.

I think Cody Seth 2 was better than 1 mainly due to the in ring psychology. Seth had answers to almost everything Cody had to give and Cody had to go slightly unfair to win here.

That Randy Rko to Roman followed by Rko to one Uso was incredible especially with the way the camera cuts showed it. WWE should do more multi men matches.

 

[shokz1408]

I brought a ticket today to the wales show is anyone else going

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Btw I watched some matches from Backlash it looks a real fun show.

The issues or expectations I had at mania were met on this PPV

I told you I had high expectations from Ronda/Charlotte and for one reason or another things didn’t click at mania but they had one of the best womens matches of the year, the intensity from both was incredible, this is what I love about wrestling when it’s made to feel like a real fight and blurs the lines between fiction and reality, this was Ronda’s second match in ages so her rhythm was better and Charlotte can be a moody performer but no one can work like her, I keep saying it but she is a once in a generation performer

I didn’t like the Cody/Seth match as much as others at mania and that was because I knew they were capable of better, I didn’t see any botchmania in this match, they kept things simple and focussed on story a bit more, they had the crowd which helps but boy do these two have chemistry, fantastic match

The main event reminded me of those fun dark main events from days of old, everyone got their stuff in, the match never overstayed it’s welcome, that Randy hot tag was incredible, everyones timing was on point and it was a great way to send the crowd home happy, there are some things which only WWE can get right when they fire on all cylinders

Am going to watch the Edge match tonight

It was alright I guess. Essentially a two match show but again, it really did not feel like WWE cared much about this show. Because it felt more like an extended episode of SmackDown than a PPV.

Cody v Seth was the match of the night for me. Not quite as good as the WrestleMania one, but excellent nonetheless. The 6 man tag was really good and full of excitement. They got 20+ minutes which allowed them to do a ton of stuff, which was great.

But other than that, there was nothing special about this show for me. Ronda v Charlotte was okay. I didn't love it but it was certainly miles ahead of their Mania match and easily the third best match on the card. Edge v AJ was a massive disappointment yet again. And essentially the same match these two had at WrestleMania, right down to the finish, but mercifully, a little shorter. This program for me, is another one of those cases where two guys who are otherwise great workers just can't seem to gel in the ring.

I don't care about Corbin and Moss at all. They are complete goofs and I fail to see them as anything more. So I skipped that. While Lashley/Omos was an atrocious match yet again and pretty much reinforced everything I already knew about Omos. Which is that he is one of the all-time worst giants WWE has ever put on TV. He's in the same company as Giant Gonzalez and arguably worse than Khali and Kerrgan. He's immobile and cannot do a single damn thing in the ring. I feel so bad for Bobby Lashley who would likely have a better match with a 7 foot inanimate object than he would with this guy.

I think WWE has just decided that apart from their Big 4 PPVs, Money in the Bank and their international shows in Saudi, UK or Australia; they are just not going to much effort into these monthly PPVs. They are already getting guaranteed money from Peacock for these shows so they have little incentive to do anything decent anyway. But still its disappointing for fans who barely get to see an actual wrestling match on Raw or SmackDown anyway...especially one that doesn't end in a DQ, count-out or interference. And then they get shortchanged at the PPV too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Don't know about you guys but I am really looking forward to AEW Double or Nothing. Because they only do 4 PPVs a year, AEW's PPVs feel like special occasions with big matches. And this time around they have got atleast 4 matches that I feel have the potential to be excellent. And another 3 that could be very good.

Punk v Page is probably going to be the match that most people will have their eyes on. But Bucks v Hardy Boys is right up there. And a match that not only alot of people want to see, but one that could actually be great too. Because as hit and miss as the Bucks are, their performance on PPVs tends to be excellent.

Wardlow vs MJF is something I am also highly excited to see. This match has essentially been for 2 years in the making. And in the last 2 months I feel they have done a particularly excellent job of accelerating the feud, building heat and bringing us towards the long-awaited one-on-one match between these two.

To a lesser extent, I'm also looking forward to Jericho Appreciation Society vs Mox, Danielson, Kingston, Santana & Ortiz. I also have a feeling that they are building towards a WarGames match between these two groups of guys later on. And as much as I hate all the hokey s**t that the House of Black do on TV, they can put on some outstanding 6 man tags if they are paired with the right team. And against Death Triangle, I feel they are going to have a very fun, fast-paced, high work-rate match with a lot of action.

Deeb vs Thunder Rosa for the women's title has the potential to be one of the best women's matches AEW has ever put on, eventhough it has zero heat. As much as we talk about Charlotte, Becky, Britt, and Rosa, I don't think enough is said about Serena Deeb who is arguably the most technically sound female wrestler in the business today. She and Rosa have the potential to put on a fantastic match. And finally, Cole might be mixing it up with Samoa Joe in the Owen Hart Cup final...which could be very good aswell.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I do hope though that Tony is smart enough to know that there simply isn't any other finish to his main-event besides Punk leaving with the belt around his waist. Because Adam Page has more than overstayed his welcome as World Champion. Nobody besides a small hardcore group of AEW fans care about him and he has absolutely no personality or attributes that make him come across as the World Champion of a major wrestling promotion. Its high-time this failed experiment came to an end, and there is no one better to end that experiment than CM Punk.

Punk winning would also make alot of sense considering AEW's next big PPV is that super-show with New Japan in Chicago...one where its highly likely that we will see the AEW World Champion against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion in the main-event.

And I nothing against Page, but Page v Okada doesn't nearly sound as exciting or intriguing as Punk v Okada, which is simply a dream match that the entire wrestling world wants to see.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Don't know about you guys but I am really looking forward to AEW Double or Nothing. Because they only do 4 PPVs a year, AEW's PPVs feel like special occasions with big matches. And this time around they have got atleast 4 matches that I feel have the potential to be excellent. And another 3 that could be very good.

Punk v Page is probably going to be the match that most people will have their eyes on. But Bucks v Hardy Boys is right up there. And a match that not only alot of people want to see, but one that could actually be great too. Because as hit and miss as the Bucks are, their performance on PPVs tends to be excellent.

Wardlow vs MJF is something I am also highly excited to see. This match has essentially been for 2 years in the making. And in the last 2 months I feel they have done a particularly excellent job of accelerating the feud, building heat and bringing us towards the long-awaited one-on-one match between these two.

To a lesser extent, I'm also looking forward to Jericho Appreciation Society vs Mox, Danielson, Kingston, Santana & Ortiz. I also have a feeling that they are building towards a WarGames match between these two groups of guys later on. And as much as I hate all the hokey s**t that the House of Black do on TV, they can put on some outstanding 6 man tags if they are paired with the right team. And against Death Triangle, I feel they are going to have a very fun, fast-paced, high work-rate match with a lot of action.

Deeb vs Thunder Rosa for the women's title has the potential to be one of the best women's matches AEW has ever put on, eventhough it has zero heat. As much as we talk about Charlotte, Becky, Britt, and Rosa, I don't think enough is said about Serena Deeb who is arguably the most technically sound female wrestler in the business today. She and Rosa have the potential to put on a fantastic match. And finally, Cole might be mixing it up with Samoa Joe in the Owen Hart Cup final...which could be very good aswell.

Natalya will always be the GOAT when it comes to the best womens technical wrestler ever, what an under rated wrestler, she has done her family justice, has been around forever. Serena is great and Thunder Rosa is an incredible performer but unfortunately let down by horrible booking compared to what I saw from the NWA Powerr guys.

As for the PPV, honestly am not hyped for it, I expect more from these guys who have minimum 2-3 months to build towards their flagship event. But, the card should deliver if you’re interested in a couple of matches. MJF is playing up the whole WWE thing but I genuinely see him as being a grand-slam champion over there if he did jump ship, he could do anything the guy has all the leverage

The biggest dream match in wrestling imo is Reigns vs Okada prime for prime, outside of that I would defo be more excited for Okada v Bryan or Punk then anything else

 

[shaz619]

I do hope though that Tony is smart enough to know that there simply isn't any other finish to his main-event besides Punk leaving with the belt around his waist. Because Adam Page has more than overstayed his welcome as World Champion. Nobody besides a small hardcore group of AEW fans care about him and he has absolutely no personality or attributes that make him come across as the World Champion of a major wrestling promotion. Its high-time this failed experiment came to an end, and there is no one better to end that experiment than CM Punk.

Punk winning would also make alot of sense considering AEW's next big PPV is that super-show with New Japan in Chicago...one where its highly likely that we will see the AEW World Champion against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion in the main-event.

And I nothing against Page, but Page v Okada doesn't nearly sound as exciting or intriguing as Punk v Okada, which is simply a dream match that the entire wrestling world wants to see.

I think he will go over and I smell a Punk heel turn to compliment his title reign, and that would be a special event it does happen in Chicago

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Don't know about you guys but I am really looking forward to AEW Double or Nothing. Because they only do 4 PPVs a year, AEW's PPVs feel like special occasions with big matches. And this time around they have got atleast 4 matches that I feel have the potential to be excellent. And another 3 that could be very good.

Punk v Page is probably going to be the match that most people will have their eyes on. But Bucks v Hardy Boys is right up there. And a match that not only alot of people want to see, but one that could actually be great too. Because as hit and miss as the Bucks are, their performance on PPVs tends to be excellent.

Wardlow vs MJF is something I am also highly excited to see. This match has essentially been for 2 years in the making. And in the last 2 months I feel they have done a particularly excellent job of accelerating the feud, building heat and bringing us towards the long-awaited one-on-one match between these two.

To a lesser extent, I'm also looking forward to Jericho Appreciation Society vs Mox, Danielson, Kingston, Santana & Ortiz. I also have a feeling that they are building towards a WarGames match between these two groups of guys later on. And as much as I hate all the hokey s**t that the House of Black do on TV, they can put on some outstanding 6 man tags if they are paired with the right team. And against Death Triangle, I feel they are going to have a very fun, fast-paced, high work-rate match with a lot of action.

Deeb vs Thunder Rosa for the women's title has the potential to be one of the best women's matches AEW has ever put on, eventhough it has zero heat. As much as we talk about Charlotte, Becky, Britt, and Rosa, I don't think enough is said about Serena Deeb who is arguably the most technically sound female wrestler in the business today. She and Rosa have the potential to put on a fantastic match. And finally, Cole might be mixing it up with Samoa Joe in the Owen Hart Cup final...which could be very good aswell.

Punk vs Page build up has been mediocre. But I guess the match will be good. But nothing match of the year candidate.

As much as I love the hardy boyz(them being my favorite tag team of all time), their wrestling style has taken a toll on their bodies especially Matt who was never really that good to get the crowd invested. I feel like I have seen Hardys vs Bucks already in ROH. Although it might still be the biggest box office tag team match in AEW, I doubt it would be that good. Jeff's been running out of breath after a 10 mins or so. I am expecting a spot fest.

Wardlow vs MJF is the best storyline going around in AEW that has had a brilliant build. But I would really like Wardlow to get the win here but MJF rarely ever loses a match. 3 if i remember correctly. And only 1 of them was a one and done feud(vs Mox), the wins against Jericho and Punk were expected as they had already lost to him. I would like him to lose a few as well. Sometimes a match is just as good as its result, and if that winner isn't Wardlow, I am going to hate it all. (A bit like how booker t was screwed over by trips when all the build pointed towards a different thing although i wasn't a fan of that storyline)

JAS and Mox etc doesn't simply excite me cause I'm simply not a fan of Kingston and LAX or Daniel Garcia or Hager etc.

Black has been underused way too much in AEW but yes it would be an enjoyable 6 man tag match. Plus you don't even need a storyline going in for such a match. You could just announce it a week before and they would deliver an enjoyable match(the 6 men involved)

Not a fan of Deeb or Rosa.

I would like a Kyle vs Cole final with Kyle winning as he is the one with the most similarity with Owen Hart's wrestling style and personality etc but the tournament has been nothing about Owen Hart I guess plus i think they are saving Cole-Kyle rivalry for later. Cole vs Joe would be an intriguing match due to their different wrestling styles. Could be a hit or miss. I am expecting Cole to win.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

https://twitter.com/nameshiv/status/1528298119460376576

Read this thread when you guys get some time. Google was celebrating The Great Gama's 144th Birthday yesterday. So this guy wrote about him.

Being a big fan of wrestling, I had always been fascinated by the legend of Gama. It's a good read. From some other sources, I had already read a lot about him and his legend and it's unbelievable. A legend of wrestling. He beat Stanislaus Zbyszko easily and the great Frank Gotch refused to fight him. These are the guys that fraud wrestling historian Meltzer raves about yet I have never once heard a single thing about Gama on his Observor crap.

One of the students of Gama's pupil, Zubair Jhara beat Antonio Inoki in catch wrestling back in 1970s as well which was some time after Inoki's superfight against Mohammad Ali (so Inoki's prime).

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

https://twitter.com/nameshiv/status/1528298119460376576

Read this thread when you guys get some time. Google was celebrating The Great Gama's 144th Birthday yesterday. So this guy wrote about him.

Being a big fan of wrestling, I had always been fascinated by the legend of Gama. It's a good read. From some other sources, I had already read a lot about him and his legend and it's unbelievable. A legend of wrestling. He beat Stanislaus Zbyszko easily and the great Frank Gotch refused to fight him. These are the guys that fraud wrestling historian Meltzer raves about yet I have never once heard a single thing about Gama on his Observor crap.

One of the students of Gama's pupil, Zubair Jhara beat Antonio Inoki in catch wrestling back in 1970s as well which was some time after Inoki's superfight against Mohammad Ali (so Inoki's prime).

He’s a legend, the guy fought guys with a variety of styles and beat them all, in any era and in any style he’d dedicate himself to, I’d see him being world champion or Olympic champion.

As for meltzer, I wouldn’t expect him to cover phelwani wrestling, greco-roman or free style tbh his forte has mainly been pro-wrestling even though he has covered MMa and while he is a bit of a biased prat now, he deserves respect as a pro-wrestling historian.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Natalya will always be the GOAT when it comes to the best womens technical wrestler ever, what an under rated wrestler, she has done her family justice, has been around forever. Serena is great and Thunder Rosa is an incredible performer but unfortunately let down by horrible booking compared to what I saw from the NWA Powerr guys.

As for the PPV, honestly am not hyped for it, I expect more from these guys who have minimum 2-3 months to build towards their flagship event. But, the card should deliver if you’re interested in a couple of matches. MJF is playing up the whole WWE thing but I genuinely see him as being a grand-slam champion over there if he did jump ship, he could do anything the guy has all the leverage

The biggest dream match in wrestling imo is Reigns vs Okada prime for prime, outside of that I would defo be more excited for Okada v Bryan or Punk then anything else

Thing about Natalya though is that it has been a very long time since she was featured at the top of the card or in any kind of a serious way. She has been diluted for far too long as just another girl on the roster and has not had good/great matches for even longer. Which is why I personally can't put her in the same category as the other top female pro-wrestlers of today.

Deeb has been well-protected in AEW eventhough she has not been booked at the top of the card. This feud is her chance to show how good of a wrestler she is. And the same goes for Thunder Rosa who badly needs credible wins/feuds to be taken seriously. Because right now Jade Cargill seems much more like the top women's champion than her.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think he will go over and I smell a Punk heel turn to compliment his title reign, and that would be a special event it does happen in Chicago

I dunno if that would be a great idea. I think the potential of Punk as a babyface World Champion would be far more beneficial for AEW. He is already the most over guy in the company. Which means just about any heel you pair him with is automatically going to get heat. On top of that, AEW badly needs a babyface World Champion that fans can get behind and cheer for. A guy who can be the face of their brand and lend credibility to it, even if its for 200 or 240 days. Because Adam Page failed spectacularly at being that, and we have already had Omega as the heel World Champion for most of last year.

Plus, which babyface is going to dethrone Punk? Because realistically I don't see any babyface on that roster who they could make champion right now besides Punk. Wardlow could be that guy a year or two from now. But right now the only other guy (heel or babyface) who is ready to be World Champion is MJF.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He’s a legend, the guy fought guys with a variety of styles and beat them all, in any era and in any style he’d dedicate himself to, I’d see him being world champion or Olympic champion.

As for meltzer, I wouldn’t expect him to cover phelwani wrestling, greco-roman or free style tbh his forte has mainly been pro-wrestling even though he has covered MMa and while he is a bit of a biased prat now, he deserves respect as a pro-wrestling historian.

When there's a legend as great as the Gama, any wrestling historian should pay him some sort of respect (maybe once in a while or induct them in their hall of fame) especially when they rave about the legends of Zbyzsco, Londos etc etc. It's just that the legends from this part of the world often get minimal to no recognition in the west.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Natalya will always be the GOAT when it comes to the best womens technical wrestler ever, what an under rated wrestler, she has done her family justice, has been around forever. Serena is great and Thunder Rosa is an incredible performer but unfortunately let down by horrible booking compared to what I saw from the NWA Powerr guys.

As for the PPV, honestly am not hyped for it, I expect more from these guys who have minimum 2-3 months to build towards their flagship event. But, the card should deliver if you’re interested in a couple of matches. MJF is playing up the whole WWE thing but I genuinely see him as being a grand-slam champion over there if he did jump ship, he could do anything the guy has all the leverage

The biggest dream match in wrestling imo is Reigns vs Okada prime for prime, outside of that I would defo be more excited for Okada v Bryan or Punk then anything else

Bryan vs Zack Sabre Jr is a match that NEEDS to happen.

 

[shaz619]

Bryan vs Zack Sabre Jr is a match that NEEDS to happen.

Zack Sabre Jr is extremely overrated, I say it as his fellow countryman, there is no comparison between him and Bryan Danielson. He is hell bent on ground based submissions and there is nothing else in-between, he would never survive in a major north American promotion

 

[shaz619]

Thing about Natalya though is that it has been a very long time since she was featured at the top of the card or in any kind of a serious way. She has been diluted for far too long as just another girl on the roster and has not had good/great matches for even longer. Which is why I personally can't put her in the same category as the other top female pro-wrestlers of today.

Deeb has been well-protected in AEW eventhough she has not been booked at the top of the card. This feud is her chance to show how good of a wrestler she is. And the same goes for Thunder Rosa who badly needs credible wins/feuds to be taken seriously. Because right now Jade Cargill seems much more like the top women's champion than her.

In terms of ability Natalya is light years ahead of all when it comes to technique and technical ability even today, booking doesn’t support her anymore because she is seen more as a workhorse who has to help others on the main roster to improve their ring work. She is rarely given that platform really but I will never forget Natalya v Charlotte for the vacant NXT title I think with Ric and Bret ringside, one of the most emotionally charged womens matches this century. In AEW she would look like she’s in her peak with Tony’s backing compared to the rest and probably also given how limited the womens roster is outside a few. Deeb is a good worker but nothing special, we’ve seen what she can do, I don’t know if you watched those womens tournaments hunter booked but am sure she was there and looked good but nothing I haven’t seen before but I expect her PPV match to be solid but am not like interested in the build for it or excited for the match up personally, Thunder Rosa and Jade are special performers, but with Rosa it is difficult to watch how she is presented when a bloody musician knew how to book her. Jade I give them credit for what they have done so far though

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Zack Sabre Jr is extremely overrated, I say it as his fellow countryman, there is no comparison between him and Bryan Danielson. He is hell bent on ground based submissions and there is nothing else in-between, he would never survive in a major north American promotion

Yup I know that but I just want to see a submission based match with loads of transitions and reversals. A 20 min fast paced match between the two. Bryan and Gulak had a similar match back in 2019 i think.
There's not going to be much story based feuds on that Forbidden Door PPV I believe. So why not just let them do what they do best without any face-heel dynamic either as I doubt many casuals would be watching that PPV where they would have to restrain themselves for the storyline.

Plus Bryan is an ATG. He is already in another class. But submission based wrestling is somewhere ZSJ can really even outmaneuvre him.

 

[shaz619]

Yup I know that but I just want to see a submission based match with loads of transitions and reversals. A 20 min fast paced match between the two. Bryan and Gulak had a similar match back in 2019 i think.
There's not going to be much story based feuds on that Forbidden Door PPV I believe. So why not just let them do what they do best without any face-heel dynamic either as I doubt many casuals would be watching that PPV where they would have to restrain themselves for the storyline.

Plus Bryan is an ATG. He is already in another class. But submission based wrestling is somewhere ZSJ can really even outmaneuvre him.

Bryan can have great matches with a broomstick and against a variety of opponents. It wont ever be a reflection on Zack’s abilities imo but more on Bryan, also Gulak is more versatile as an all round performer then Zack, I don’t see the point in a match if two performers are going to be on top of each other for the duration of the match, you’re better of watching a different form of wrestling, also Zack looks like he might die of starvation, I struggle to see why he hasn’t changed his diet and training regime after all these years. As for British wrestlers, I’d have loved to see Pete Dunne or Tyler Bate against Bryan

 

[shaz619]

When there's a legend as great as the Gama, any wrestling historian should pay him some sort of respect (maybe once in a while or induct them in their hall of fame) especially when they rave about the legends of Zbyzsco, Londos etc etc. It's just that the legends from this part of the world often get minimal to no recognition in the west.

Do you know any notable pro-wrestling magazine who has covered the gama? Gama am sure would have been covered by those more interested in greco-roman, free-style and other non-scripted / combat publications. Dave doesn’t have that much credibility beyond pro-wrestling, if he care more for shoot or catch wrestling or free style etc he probably wouldn’t be bending over for the likes of Omega and the Bucks

 

[shaz619]

I dunno if that would be a great idea. I think the potential of Punk as a babyface World Champion would be far more beneficial for AEW. He is already the most over guy in the company. Which means just about any heel you pair him with is automatically going to get heat. On top of that, AEW badly needs a babyface World Champion that fans can get behind and cheer for. A guy who can be the face of their brand and lend credibility to it, even if its for 200 or 240 days. Because Adam Page failed spectacularly at being that, and we have already had Omega as the heel World Champion for most of last year.

Plus, which babyface is going to dethrone Punk? Because realistically I don't see any babyface on that roster who they could make champion right now besides Punk. Wardlow could be that guy a year or two from now. But right now the only other guy (heel or babyface) who is ready to be World Champion is MJF.

I can’t say what the landscape is on their roster tbh but I’ve seen Punk behave a certain/subtle way which indicate to me that he could turn heel, it will happen, whenever it is; as good as Punk is as a face, when he is a heel the man is on another planet altogether and easily stacks up against the greatest heels ever and his creative juices flow really well. He has been playing face for a while now and I think Heyman said it best where, this is sort of the honeymoon period and it’s all about what he does next after the nostalgia and feel good factor disappears. Punk is blurring the lines a bit now but just think how compelling this feud would be if Punk was a heel, dare I say he’d do a much better job in helping him get over as champion, who knows? that could be the plan lol Page going over and Punk turning fully

You’re right if they really need a face then Punk can play that role better then most and it’s tougher as a face then a heel, not so easy to make people love you. For a company like AEW, I don’t think it matters if the champion is a face or a heel given their audience but I guess they’ve not had a solid face champ yet and botched Page big time

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bryan can have great matches with a broomstick and against a variety of opponents. It wont ever be a reflection on Zack’s abilities imo but more on Bryan, also Gulak is more versatile as an all round performer then Zack, I don’t see the point in a match if two performers are going to be on top of each other for the duration of the match, you’re better of watching a different form of wrestling, also Zack looks like he might die of starvation, I struggle to see why he hasn’t changed his diet and training regime after all these years. As for British wrestlers, I’d have loved to see Pete Dunne or Tyler Bate against Bryan

I used to think ZSJ and Noam Dar were the same guy lol due to Zack's bland character or lack of character.
Pete Dunne has been my favorite British wrestler since 2017. I'd love to see Dunne vs Joe or Dunne vs McIntyre.

Bryan-Gargano match in WWE never happened sadly.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Do you know any notable pro-wrestling magazine who has covered the gama? Gama am sure would have been covered by those more interested in greco-roman, free-style and other non-scripted / combat publications. Dave doesn’t have that much credibility beyond pro-wrestling, if he care more for shoot or catch wrestling or free style etc he probably wouldn’t be bending over for the likes of Omega and the Bucks

Read a Bleacher Report article on him long ago.
Even in pro wrestling Meltzer isn't very credible for his inside peaks and stuff and is way too biased. Of the top wrestlers, I have only ever heard Jericho say good things about Dave who is probably a big fan of his star ratings.
Meltzer covers UFC as well but he's just not amongst the top journos about it. I'd say even Ariel Helwani is a bigger name in MMA than Meltzer.

Btw have you seen the clip where Britt Baker after one of her bloody matches while being treated backstage is saying "I hope Meltzer gives this match 5 stars" ?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I can’t say what the landscape is on their roster tbh but I’ve seen Punk behave a certain/subtle way which indicate to me that he could turn heel, it will happen, whenever it is; as good as Punk is as a face, when he is a heel the man is on another planet altogether and easily stacks up against the greatest heels ever and his creative juices flow really well. He has been playing face for a while now and I think Heyman said it best where, this is sort of the honeymoon period and it’s all about what he does next after the nostalgia and feel good factor disappears. Punk is blurring the lines a bit now but just think how compelling this feud would be if Punk was a heel, dare I say he’d do a much better job in helping him get over as champion, who knows? that could be the plan lol Page going over and Punk turning fully

You’re right if they really need a face then Punk can play that role better then most and it’s tougher as a face then a heel, not so easy to make people love you. For a company like AEW, I don’t think it matters if the champion is a face or a heel given their audience but I guess they’ve not had a solid face champ yet and botched Page big time

He does things that can be considered heelish, but another way of seeing it is that he is just being true to himself. Like for instance two weeks ago, he was a complete heel in Long Island deliberately provoking the crowd. But in many ways, that was just a continuation of how he behaved/was treated in NY when he was feuding with MJF. Next week he was back to being a babyface.

Yeah I just feel that if you have someone like Punk on your roster you should try to get the most of him as a babyface. We all know what a great heel he can be and obviously he will turn at some point. But right now he is hot, the crowd is behind him more than pretty much anyone else in the company. And from a business stand-point it makes much more sense for AEW to cash in on the buzz/popularity and have him as their babyface world champion.

I actually think this feud would have been way better if Page was heel and Punk was face. We all know that if Punk was heel he would have completely buried Page in the dust, because that's just how good he is as a heel. But with Punk as a face and Page as a heel there is a much better balance. Because Punk can be a great babyface, while Page has shown more personality being heelish in the last two weeks than he has during his entire run in AEW.

Who knows, maybe they will go down that path.

Also, OT but in Wardlow I think they have got a major top babyface for years to come. So much of what he does reminds me of Goldberg and Batista.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Zack Sabre Jr is extremely overrated, I say it as his fellow countryman, there is no comparison between him and Bryan Danielson. He is hell bent on ground based submissions and there is nothing else in-between, he would never survive in a major north American promotion

Yeah Sabre is far too much of a grappling based wrestler. I'm not sure if I would be that excited to see him and Bryan mix it up. If we are talking Bryan wrestling someone from NJPW than personally, I would love to see him take on Ospreay. That could actually be a very fun and different match.

Bryan vs. Ibushi could have been great too. But Ibushi seems like he is on his way out of New Japan.

 

[shaz619]

Read a Bleacher Report article on him long ago.
Even in pro wrestling Meltzer isn't very credible for his inside peaks and stuff and is way too biased. Of the top wrestlers, I have only ever heard Jericho say good things about Dave who is probably a big fan of his star ratings.
Meltzer covers UFC as well but he's just not amongst the top journos about it. I'd say even Ariel Helwani is a bigger name in MMA than Meltzer.

Btw have you seen the clip where Britt Baker after one of her bloody matches while being treated backstage is saying "I hope Meltzer gives this match 5 stars" ?

I wouldn’t consider BR a published pro-raslin magazine though. Ariel is far more established and proven as an MMA reporter, Meltzer hasn’t really covered it with any real depth this century. Bret will always tell you great thing about Meltzer and maybe Ric to, his contributions to wrestling from the territory days and that body of work will always get recognition, and the star ratings have become controversial (he didn’t invent them either) but are great for archive purposes when you look in the past.

Not surprised Baker said that, in AEW they don’t really respect the kayfabe because their fans don’t care about it. Also while Dave is biased and a big part of it are his friendships which also plagued some of his reporting in the 90’s, the WON and even PWI now are starting to cater more towards the hipster smarks of this era to sell their magazines, in fact PWI voted Baker v Rosa that lights out match as their match of the year

 

[shaz619]

Yeah Sabre is far too much of a grappling based wrestler. I'm not sure if I would be that excited to see him and Bryan mix it up. If we are talking Bryan wrestling someone from NJPW than personally, I would love to see him take on Ospreay. That could actually be a very fun and different match.

Bryan vs. Ibushi could have been great too. But Ibushi seems like he is on his way out of New Japan.

It would be a good match if Ospreay can stay active for a few months and stops monkeying around lol if he carries on with this rubbish he wont have much of a career left, I didn’t see anything special in the matches with Okada either. Ibushi is much more interesting opponent for Bryan most certainly

 

[shaz619]

He does things that can be considered heelish, but another way of seeing it is that he is just being true to himself. Like for instance two weeks ago, he was a complete heel in Long Island deliberately provoking the crowd. But in many ways, that was just a continuation of how he behaved/was treated in NY when he was feuding with MJF. Next week he was back to being a babyface.

Yeah I just feel that if you have someone like Punk on your roster you should try to get the most of him as a babyface. We all know what a great heel he can be and obviously he will turn at some point. But right now he is hot, the crowd is behind him more than pretty much anyone else in the company. And from a business stand-point it makes much more sense for AEW to cash in on the buzz/popularity and have him as their babyface world champion.

I actually think this feud would have been way better if Page was heel and Punk was face. We all know that if Punk was heel he would have completely buried Page in the dust, because that's just how good he is as a heel. But with Punk as a face and Page as a heel there is a much better balance. Because Punk can be a great babyface, while Page has shown more personality being heelish in the last two weeks than he has during his entire run in AEW.

Who knows, maybe they will go down that path.

Also, OT but in Wardlow I think they have got a major top babyface for years to come. So much of what he does reminds me of Goldberg and Batista.

That’s a part of it but I feel his behaviour there is more explicit in those situations, but there are a number of subtle promos beyond that where I feel he could potentially transition to a new role or persona.

I don’t know he might still be over as a face and especially compared to others but is the euphoria there which existed last winter ? I feel that reception is starting to fizzle out a bit, wrestlers know it before the audience do. Anyhow am not saying that face run is not an option because he could always go overstay his welcome before turning to.

I am off Wardlow since I watched his match with Lance Archer, before that I thought he had something with the Goldberg booking

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I wouldn’t consider BR a published pro-raslin magazine though. Ariel is far more established and proven as an MMA reporter, Meltzer hasn’t really covered it with any real depth this century. Bret will always tell you great thing about Meltzer and maybe Ric to, his contributions to wrestling from the territory days and that body of work will always get recognition, and the star ratings have become controversial (he didn’t invent them either) but are great for archive purposes when you look in the past.

Not surprised Baker said that, in AEW they don’t really respect the kayfabe because their fans don’t care about it. Also while Dave is biased and a big part of it are his friendships which also plagued some of his reporting in the 90’s, the WON and even PWI now are starting to cater more towards the hipster smarks of this era to sell their magazines, in fact PWI voted Baker v Rosa that lights out match as their match of the year

I actually prefer PWI higher than WON. People will actually say PWI is biased towards WWE. But the hardcore wrestling community/smarks are really never happy with anything neutral or something they don't agree with. I think majority of CM Punk fans are proper wrestling cultists who would do anything to just agree with whatever he says and s**t on WWE.

I think Meltzer has just aged to a point where he is just too stubborn on believing what he says is always correct. A bit like Vince who has also stagnated his product by his stubborness but in a different way.
Meltzer is hell bent on believing AEW is good and WWE is evil and NJPW is the pinnacle and he just preaches it all the time nowadays.
His pre 2000 work was commendable though.

Well if Bret sees how many matches Dave gives 5 stars or more these days, he would probably get offended on having only 2-3 5 star matches I guess. Regarding Ric, he is just too wacky now to be taken seriously. He talks ess about Bryan all the time.

I actually find Austin to be the most balanced who doesn't shy away from praising wrestlers and matches and whose knowledge about pro wrestling is insane considering he ruled over the business for over a decade. Austin praised the first Omega-Okada match heavily as well but didn't go overboard like Dave to saying it was the greatest match ever.

 

[shaz619]

I actually prefer PWI higher than WON. People will actually say PWI is biased towards WWE. But the hardcore wrestling community/smarks are really never happy with anything neutral or something they don't agree with. I think majority of CM Punk fans are proper wrestling cultists who would do anything to just agree with whatever he says and s**t on WWE.

I think Meltzer has just aged to a point where he is just too stubborn on believing what he says is always correct. A bit like Vince who has also stagnated his product by his stubborness but in a different way.
Meltzer is hell bent on believing AEW is good and WWE is evil and NJPW is the pinnacle and he just preaches it all the time nowadays.
His pre 2000 work was commendable though.

Well if Bret sees how many matches Dave gives 5 stars or more these days, he would probably get offended on having only 2-3 5 star matches I guess. Regarding Ric, he is just too wacky now to be taken seriously. He talks ess about Bryan all the time.

I actually find Austin to be the most balanced who doesn't shy away from praising wrestlers and matches and whose knowledge about pro wrestling is insane considering he ruled over the business for over a decade. Austin praised the first Omega-Okada match heavily as well but didn't go overboard like Dave to saying it was the greatest match ever.

PWI is starting to seem more like the WON to these days, they are adapting to the new landscape in wrestling. Hipsters wanted their recognition and they have it from both so long they keep paying for it. Dave right now definitely is shot in the head and extremely biased due to his friends, he didn’t favour the E as much compared to other companies generally but has never been as biased as he is now.

I think I have gone into detail once on Dave’s evolving relationship with Bret in the 90’s and how he began to turn sour against Shawn despite being his biggest fan in America let me know what you guys think:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?290105-POTW-shaz619 [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] but long story short, Bret was one of his most famous insiders. You see how much Dave belittles Shawn now and mentions names like Ospreay etc and how so and so is so much better than him. He will put over every wrestler he loves now when compared to the past greats but he will never criticise Bret, I’ve actually interacted with Dave about this and he admitted his bias.

Yeah love Austin and his input on the landscape, his podcast is great. That Okada match cemented him as an ATG imo he managed to convince people a mediocre guy like Omega is some GOAT lmao

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s a part of it but I feel his behaviour there is more explicit in those situations, but there are a number of subtle promos beyond that where I feel he could potentially transition to a new role or persona.

I don’t know he might still be over as a face and especially compared to others but is the euphoria there which existed last winter ? I feel that reception is starting to fizzle out a bit, wrestlers know it before the audience do. Anyhow am not saying that face run is not an option because he could always go overstay his welcome before turning to.

I am off Wardlow since I watched his match with Lance Archer, before that I thought he had something with the Goldberg booking

Tbh, no one is going to get the level of reaction that Punk got on his return, for a sustained period. Especially in this day and age. But Punk is still incredibly over. Even in New York, where he came out full heel and went out of his way to insult the crowd, the crowd was an even 50/50 during his match. And every week his entrance is still the biggest pop of the night. So personally, I don't feel the reaction is fizzling because everything that he has been involved in has made sense and been either good or great. If anything, we are now coming to the point in his arc where his trajectory should be upwards.

Well I mean one match doesn't change that. And he can hardly be blamed for bad booking. Since that match though, his angle with MJF has been executed to absolute perfection. It has been the best thing on any wrestling show by a country mile. And we have now come to a point where Wardlow is over with the crowd and everyone wants to see him beat the p**s out of MJF.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Punk vs Page build up has been mediocre. But I guess the match will be good. But nothing match of the year candidate.

As much as I love the hardy boyz(them being my favorite tag team of all time), their wrestling style has taken a toll on their bodies especially Matt who was never really that good to get the crowd invested. I feel like I have seen Hardys vs Bucks already in ROH. Although it might still be the biggest box office tag team match in AEW, I doubt it would be that good. Jeff's been running out of breath after a 10 mins or so. I am expecting a spot fest.

Wardlow vs MJF is the best storyline going around in AEW that has had a brilliant build. But I would really like Wardlow to get the win here but MJF rarely ever loses a match. 3 if i remember correctly. And only 1 of them was a one and done feud(vs Mox), the wins against Jericho and Punk were expected as they had already lost to him. I would like him to lose a few as well. Sometimes a match is just as good as its result, and if that winner isn't Wardlow, I am going to hate it all. (A bit like how booker t was screwed over by trips when all the build pointed towards a different thing although i wasn't a fan of that storyline)

JAS and Mox etc doesn't simply excite me cause I'm simply not a fan of Kingston and LAX or Daniel Garcia or Hager etc.

Black has been underused way too much in AEW but yes it would be an enjoyable 6 man tag match. Plus you don't even need a storyline going in for such a match. You could just announce it a week before and they would deliver an enjoyable match(the 6 men involved)

Not a fan of Deeb or Rosa.

I would like a Kyle vs Cole final with Kyle winning as he is the one with the most similarity with Owen Hart's wrestling style and personality etc but the tournament has been nothing about Owen Hart I guess plus i think they are saving Cole-Kyle rivalry for later. Cole vs Joe would be an intriguing match due to their different wrestling styles. Could be a hit or miss. I am expecting Cole to win.

Hardyz are certainly nowhere near where they used to be, but if there is any team that can get an excellent PPV quality match out of them, its the Bucks. Their level of consistency on PPVs is simply incredible. For me atleast two of the three greatest tag team matches of the modern era are Bucks vs Lucha Bros at All Out and Bucks v Page/Omega at Revolution. Plus they have worked with the Hardyz before in ROH and know how to cover up for/make their opponents look good.

Cole v O'Reilly doesn't make much sense atm. when they are trying to show that Undisputed Era and the Bucks are successful when they work together. And after Omega comes back, they are probably going to do Undisputed Era v Elite. Plus, I think the O'Reilly/Cole feud from NXT is too fresh in everyone's minds.

Yup Cole seems like the favorite to win the Owen Hart Cup, which is something he badly needs aswell because he has not been booked like a top guy ever since he came to AEW.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

PWI is starting to seem more like the WON to these days, they are adapting to the new landscape in wrestling. Hipsters wanted their recognition and they have it from both so long they keep paying for it. Dave right now definitely is shot in the head and extremely biased due to his friends, he didn’t favour the E as much compared to other companies generally but has never been as biased as he is now.

I think I have gone into detail once on Dave’s evolving relationship with Bret in the 90’s and how he began to turn sour against Shawn despite being his biggest fan in America let me know what you guys think:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?290105-POTW-shaz619 [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] but long story short, Bret was one of his most famous insiders. You see how much Dave belittles Shawn now and mentions names like Ospreay etc and how so and so is so much better than him. He will put over every wrestler he loves now when compared to the past greats but he will never criticise Bret, I’ve actually interacted with Dave about this and he admitted his bias.

Yeah love Austin and his input on the landscape, his podcast is great. That Okada match cemented him as an ATG imo he managed to convince people a mediocre guy like Omega is some GOAT lmao

Not to defend Dave or anything, but I think at the end of the day everyone is a little biased. You can't not be when you are analyzing something as subjective as pro-wrestling. I'm still incredibly biased towards guys like Shawn, Hogan, Nash. Dave's problem is that he tries to project himself as an objective journalist which is simply not true. He is the biggest AEW mark that there is out there. And in previous years he was a massive mark for New Japan and All Japan.

I am not someone who has ever really cared too much about his star ratings. Because alot of times they are just his opinions. I can disagree with them, but I can't hold them against him. And while Meltzer's work from years gone by often illuminates/gives you perspective regarding that time period; even there you will find gems like: 'Juventud Guerrera is the best wrestler in the US, why is he not getting featured more??'. Anyone who has ever watched a single Juventud Guerrera Nitro match knows that there are few guys who used to f**k up spots more than him.

Personally, I think its best not to read too much into wrestling-related journalism. Because at the end of the day everyone has an agenda. For me, wrestling journalism (magazines or podcasts) is more about comparing my experience to that of others, and I think that's the most non-toxic way of approaching wrestling journalism.

 

[shaz619]

Tbh, no one is going to get the level of reaction that Punk got on his return, for a sustained period. Especially in this day and age. But Punk is still incredibly over. Even in New York, where he came out full heel and went out of his way to insult the crowd, the crowd was an even 50/50 during his match. And every week his entrance is still the biggest pop of the night. So personally, I don't feel the reaction is fizzling because everything that he has been involved in has made sense and been either good or great. If anything, we are now coming to the point in his arc where his trajectory should be upwards.

Well I mean one match doesn't change that. And he can hardly be blamed for bad booking. Since that match though, his angle with MJF has been executed to absolute perfection. It has been the best thing on any wrestling show by a country mile. And we have now come to a point where Wardlow is over with the crowd and everyone wants to see him beat the p**s out of MJF.

I doubt anyone would get a pop like that given the unique circumstances of his return but week on week, while the reception remains warm it is not possible to maintain the same wave week on week outside the places he hasn’t visited in a while, even more so with this era of wrestling fans, but his mic ability is the get out of jail card anyway whatever direction they go with him and it is the same for MJF who is the star of that feud really, Wardlow is getting over with the AEW fans thanks to MJF and also his ring style but I personally find it insulting after how they have presented him, am not a Wardlow mark or watch him every week so it’s more important for guys like that to take TV more seriously, he isn’t someone I’d buy a ticket to see but if he floats the boat of others fair play

 

[shaz619]

Not to defend Dave or anything, but I think at the end of the day everyone is a little biased. You can't not be when you are analyzing something as subjective as pro-wrestling. I'm still incredibly biased towards guys like Shawn, Hogan, Nash. Dave's problem is that he tries to project himself as an objective journalist which is simply not true. He is the biggest AEW mark that there is out there. And in previous years he was a massive mark for New Japan and All Japan.

I am not someone who has ever really cared too much about his star ratings. Because alot of times they are just his opinions. I can disagree with them, but I can't hold them against him. And while Meltzer's work from years gone by often illuminates/gives you perspective regarding that time period; even there you will find gems like: 'Juventud Guerrera is the best wrestler in the US, why is he not getting featured more??'. Anyone who has ever watched a single Juventud Guerrera Nitro match knows that there are few guys who used to f**k up spots more than him.

Personally, I think its best not to read too much into wrestling-related journalism. Because at the end of the day everyone has an agenda. For me, wrestling journalism (magazines or podcasts) is more about comparing my experience to that of others, and I think that's the most non-toxic way of approaching wrestling journalism.

He’s a successful wind up merchant, he plays it all up quiet well and probably with age has lost it a bit now. Sometimes it’s hard to see what he has become given his reporting over the years, this guy has covered almost everything, it’s a shame but anything for a few quid and some friends he never had before in wrestling circles

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hardyz are certainly nowhere near where they used to be, but if there is any team that can get an excellent PPV quality match out of them, its the Bucks. Their level of consistency on PPVs is simply incredible. For me atleast two of the three greatest tag team matches of the modern era are Bucks vs Lucha Bros at All Out and Bucks v Page/Omega at Revolution. Plus they have worked with the Hardyz before in ROH and know how to cover up for/make their opponents look good.

Cole v O'Reilly doesn't make much sense atm. when they are trying to show that Undisputed Era and the Bucks are successful when they work together. And after Omega comes back, they are probably going to do Undisputed Era v Elite. Plus, I think the O'Reilly/Cole feud from NXT is too fresh in everyone's minds.

Yup Cole seems like the favorite to win the Owen Hart Cup, which is something he badly needs aswell because he has not been booked like a top guy ever since he came to AEW.

I just hope Hardys don't get severely injured trying to do the stuff they did in 90s and early 2000s.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

PWI is starting to seem more like the WON to these days, they are adapting to the new landscape in wrestling. Hipsters wanted their recognition and they have it from both so long they keep paying for it. Dave right now definitely is shot in the head and extremely biased due to his friends, he didn’t favour the E as much compared to other companies generally but has never been as biased as he is now.

I think I have gone into detail once on Dave’s evolving relationship with Bret in the 90’s and how he began to turn sour against Shawn despite being his biggest fan in America let me know what you guys think:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?290105-POTW-shaz619 [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] but long story short, Bret was one of his most famous insiders. You see how much Dave belittles Shawn now and mentions names like Ospreay etc and how so and so is so much better than him. He will put over every wrestler he loves now when compared to the past greats but he will never criticise Bret, I’ve actually interacted with Dave about this and he admitted his bias.

Yeah love Austin and his input on the landscape, his podcast is great. That Okada match cemented him as an ATG imo he managed to convince people a mediocre guy like Omega is some GOAT lmao

Although I wouldn't call Omega mediocre, he is certainly very good. But in no way is Omega the best ever.

Well I stopped taking Dave seriously once he said HBK wouldn't have been successful in Japan and NJPW guys like Evil Sanada and Tanahashi would expose Undertaker's in ring ineptness.

Plus the guy has real bias against The Rock and Cena as well. He calls them limited and predictable in ring but when Tanahashi does it day in day out, he calls it an art.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Not to defend Dave or anything, but I think at the end of the day everyone is a little biased. You can't not be when you are analyzing something as subjective as pro-wrestling. I'm still incredibly biased towards guys like Shawn, Hogan, Nash. Dave's problem is that he tries to project himself as an objective journalist which is simply not true. He is the biggest AEW mark that there is out there. And in previous years he was a massive mark for New Japan and All Japan.

I am not someone who has ever really cared too much about his star ratings. Because alot of times they are just his opinions. I can disagree with them, but I can't hold them against him. And while Meltzer's work from years gone by often illuminates/gives you perspective regarding that time period; even there you will find gems like: 'Juventud Guerrera is the best wrestler in the US, why is he not getting featured more??'. Anyone who has ever watched a single Juventud Guerrera Nitro match knows that there are few guys who used to f**k up spots more than him.

Personally, I think its best not to read too much into wrestling-related journalism. Because at the end of the day everyone has an agenda. For me, wrestling journalism (magazines or podcasts) is more about comparing my experience to that of others, and I think that's the most non-toxic way of approaching wrestling journalism.

Agreed. Wrestling Journalists (pseudo journalists) are basically just wrestling fans who talk about wrestling a lot. It becomes annoying when they try to impose their views on others. We already have tons of wrestling fans/marks who are hell bent on burying every other wrestling company they don't like.

 

[shaz619]

I watched the main event of AEW’s flagship PPV and while it was a nice moment / emotionally charged for Punk, outside the decent finishing stretch, the match was sloppy to say the least. The E gets criticised for recycling the same formula at times but if we look at the main event at mania it was solid and to the point, no mucking around, people have been waiting for it all night wrong, keep things simple / moving at a hot pace to start and go to the finish. The styles just didn’t gel unfortunately and they got too cute then they needed to, ignoring the botches (surprised Punk attempted the buck shot really but he tried it on TV as a tester but it’s different doing the move deep in a match and he has never been a flippy guy) anyway there was little flow but they got to the finish in one piece and it’s a big win for Punk, he will happy to get over that one under the pressure of a main event but at the same time I’ve notice many overly criticise the guy, that’s the problem with special events, the casual might turn in or a lapsed fan who watches sporadically and they’d look at that and say this guy is shot etc while those who have seen him perform on a more regular basis know it’s not true but it goes back the point where the margin for error is small on national television. Excited for Punk’s reign though, don’t think I will bother watching the rest of the card from double or nothing. I wonder if each match even has an agent or producer, Paul E would be a god send in these scenarios

 

[shaz619]

They have Arn Anderson but utilise him like he some pimp of the street

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I watched the main event of AEW’s flagship PPV and while it was a nice moment / emotionally charged for Punk, outside the decent finishing stretch, the match was sloppy to say the least. The E gets criticised for recycling the same formula at times but if we look at the main event at mania it was solid and to the point, no mucking around, people have been waiting for it all night wrong, keep things simple / moving at a hot pace to start and go to the finish. The styles just didn’t gel unfortunately and they got too cute then they needed to, ignoring the botches (surprised Punk attempted the buck shot really but he tried it on TV as a tester but it’s different doing the move deep in a match and he has never been a flippy guy) anyway there was little flow but they got to the finish in one piece and it’s a big win for Punk, he will happy to get over that one under the pressure of a main event but at the same time I’ve notice many overly criticise the guy, that’s the problem with special events, the casual might turn in or a lapsed fan who watches sporadically and they’d look at that and say this guy is shot etc while those who have seen him perform on a more regular basis know it’s not true but it goes back the point where the margin for error is small on national television. Excited for Punk’s reign though, don’t think I will bother watching the rest of the card from double or nothing. I wonder if each match even has an agent or producer, Paul E would be a god send in these scenarios

I skimmed through the event as I have no intentions of watching a 4hr plus PPV. Punk vs Page was good but botchy, delivered below the expectations in regards to in ring action and was expecting a raucous crowd cheering Punk on.

Wardlow vs MJF, well it was all about the angle and MJF thankfully put Wardlow over strong. But even then, a guy who had been pinned/submitted only thrice before in his AEW career, to get squashed is a bit unbelievable. Unless this launches Wardlow into the main title event, the manner of victory looks a bit strange to say the least. And even if Wardlow goes into the main event scene, he certainly can't lose to Punk right now.

Hardys vs Bucks like I had said already, delivered to my average expectations. I have seen their matches a few times already and it was no different to that.

JAS vs Blackpool CC was probably the best match on the show.

Death Triangle vs House of Black, well I had expectations of a good fast paced match but it didn't end up being the show stealer. Plus I don't like Brody King at all. He is clearly a level below Black and Murphy.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

They have Arn Anderson but utilise him like he some pimp of the street

They have Regal too.
And I heard Pat Buck joined AEW a while back as well.
They can hire Scotty 2 Hotty as well who was well respected for his work in NXT.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] your review bro.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] ever since becky has returned with this heel persona, i can't help but it seems like her mannerisms are based on the hollywood heel rock gimmick. Like the way and tone with which she talks etc and stuff, it's like she's based her whole heel gimmick on the rock. is it just me or you have noticed it too?