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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

BunnyRabbit said:
Despite of Gunther being the heel, Nose made sure all the heat got to him. And all heat on his is useless.
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I can see him burning inside to lash out at the fans who bent him over last weekend, don’t be surprised with his 30 min rambling to open RAW. But at the moment he is trying to come across as a diplomatic high level exec before the top TKO brass but we know who he truly is deep down & eventually he just can’t help himself.

At this point they should give H his burning wish to return on-screen in a more regular role & have him manage Gunther. Otherwise what benefit is there with the heat he has generated ? It’s 50/50 between him & Gunther.

As always this selfish git steals all the heat from everyone else & is the king of sucking the life out of the WWE audiences since his involvement with wrestling.
 
‘Professional wrestling has defeated sports entertainment.’

This was not said lightly, it was predetermined & a scripted line asked to be delivered by an extremely petty and insecure person.

But listen, H can die 1000 times, be reborn to perform his current role and still, he wont compare to the fine crack that lies between the two cheeks of Vincent Kennedy McMahon.
 
shaz619 said:
I can see him burning inside to lash out at the fans who bent him over last weekend, don’t be surprised with his 30 min rambling to open RAW. But at the moment he is trying to come across as a diplomatic high level exec before the top TKO brass but we know who he truly is deep down & eventually he just can’t help himself.

At this point they should give H his burning wish to return on-screen in a more regular role & have him manage Gunther. Otherwise what benefit is there with the heat he has generated ? It’s 50/50 between him & Gunther.

As always this selfish git steals all the heat from everyone else & is the king of sucking the life out of the WWE audiences since his involvement with wrestling.
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Which is why I wanted a stronger personality with more push backstage to be Cena's final opponent ie Roman.
 
shaz619 said:
I can see him burning inside to lash out at the fans who bent him over last weekend, don’t be surprised with his 30 min rambling to open RAW. But at the moment he is trying to come across as a diplomatic high level exec before the top TKO brass but we know who he truly is deep down & eventually he just can’t help himself.

At this point they should give H his burning wish to return on-screen in a more regular role & have him manage Gunther. Otherwise what benefit is there with the heat he has generated ? It’s 50/50 between him & Gunther.

As always this selfish git steals all the heat from everyone else & is the king of sucking the life out of the WWE audiences since his involvement with wrestling.
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honestly. He is so braindead

Even Cena thought this was so dumb because when he tapped he’s literally smiling and his expression says I’m tapping out to get over with this that this clown wrote- not tapping out after exerting effort to escape and win-

it’s all there in the match lol.

Could’ve just had him pass out after a hard fought match- Gunther goes over (even though we want a Cena win, but Kutta damaged Gunther’s rep as well by having his son Jey submit him at WM so he’s trying to correct that blunder)- him passing out means he didn’t give up and also is poetic in a way because he kicked the heel journey off by submitting Punk at EC unconscious and now he goes out the same way…
 
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Unpopular opinion considering what I've read online so far but I thought this is almost exactly how Cena's last match should have gone. I only thing I wouldn't have done is milking the sleeper hold for as long as they did. It was a bit much.

Months ago, I said that I would have Gunther beat John Cena in Cena's last match in Boston. If you would have asked me what the finish should be, I would have gone for this exact same finish which was Cena tapping out to Gunther. So personally speaking, I am mostly happy with how it all played out.

I know alot of people wanted the happy feel-good ending, but the reality is that in life you don't always get a happy ending. Life is harsh and brutal, and good doesn't always triumph over evil. Sometimes life is just about getting knocked out and walked over by an unstoppable Austrian machine. Cena losing this match---and in the manner he lost---worked in kayfabe. Logically speaking, a 48-year old veteran wrestling his last match shouldn't be able to beat a top-level regular like Gunther, who has lost maybe a handful of matches in the past few years.

Gunther beating Cena also adds to Gunther's legacy, but doesn't diminish Cena's legacy in any way because of what he has already accomplished in the business. I'm not going to give Triple H any credit for this because I came up with the idea independently and long before he executed it on TV, and it because I think this finish was a no-brainer, but I will say that I don't agree with the reaction online AT ALL. I see no reason why Cena should have won his last match. I don't recall Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels winning their last matches, and those were two of the greatest retirement matches of all-time. Even Terry Funk lost his original retirement match to Bret Hart.

At the end of the day, the long-term impact of making someone (Gunther in this case) outweighs the short-term gain of sending the fans home happy.
 
This is what I hate about Triple H. He has to make everything about himself. This is like if Vince was in the post-show after WrestleMania 30 justifying why he chose to end the streak.

This ego-maniac wastes zero opportunities to make everything about himself, and expose the business. You did something shocking that the fans didn't want to see. If you must talk about it then why not sell the kayfabe side of how Gunther is an unstoppable machine that can't be beaten, even by John Cena. The focus should be on Gunther, not you dip**t.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2000179593651818916
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Unpopular opinion considering what I've read online so far but I thought this is almost exactly how Cena's last match should have gone. I only thing I wouldn't have done is milking the sleeper hold for as long as they did. It was a bit much.

Months ago, I said that I would have Gunther beat John Cena in Cena's last match in Boston. If you would have asked me what the finish should be, I would have gone for this exact same finish which was Cena tapping out to Gunther. So personally speaking, I am mostly happy with how it all played out.

I know alot of people wanted the happy feel-good ending, but the reality is that in life you don't always get a happy ending. Life is harsh and brutal, and good doesn't always triumph over evil. Sometimes life is just about getting knocked out and walked over by an unstoppable Austrian machine. Cena losing this match---and in the manner he lost---worked in kayfabe. Logically speaking, a 48-year old veteran wrestling his last match shouldn't be able to beat a top-level regular like Gunther, who has lost maybe a handful of matches in the past few years.

Gunther beating Cena also adds to Gunther's legacy, but doesn't diminish Cena's legacy in any way because of what he has already accomplished in the business. I'm not going to give Triple H any credit for this because I came up with the idea independently and long before he executed it on TV, and it because I think this finish was a no-brainer, but I will say that I don't agree with the reaction online AT ALL. I see no reason why Cena should have won his last match. I don't recall Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels winning their last matches, and those were two of the greatest retirement matches of all-time. Even Terry Funk lost his original retirement match to Bret Hart.

At the end of the day, the long-term impact of making someone (Gunther in this case) outweighs the short-term gain of sending the fans home happy.
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I would've agreed with you for any other wrestler.

But, Cena is not any other wrestler. He is the greatest of all time. Him finishing with a win would've made better sense (just like Undertaker did against AJ Style in his final match).

The finishing was very lame. It felt worse than Montreal Screwjob.
 
Suleiman said:
honestly. He is so braindead

Even Cena thought this was so dumb because when he tapped he’s literally smiling and his expression says I’m tapping out to get over with this **** that this clown wrote- not tapping out after exerting effort to escape and win-

it’s all there in the match lol.

Could’ve just had him pass out after a hard fought match- Gunther goes over (even though we want a Cena win, but Kutta damaged Gunther’s rep as well by having his son Jey submit him at WM so he’s trying to correct that blunder)- him passing out means he didn’t give up and also is poetic in a way because he kicked the heel journey off by submitting Punk at EC unconscious and now he goes out the same way…
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I think Gunther was already over by being the final opponent of Cena. A win wasn't needed. If anything, Cena winning would've been a better storyline.

Cena's expression was symbolic. He looked like he wanted to get it over with. LOL.
 
sweep_shot said:
I would've agreed with you for any other wrestler.

But, Cena is not any other wrestler. He is the greatest of all time. Him finishing with a win would've made better sense (just like Undertaker did against AJ Style in his final match).

The finishing was very lame. It felt worse than Montreal Screwjob.
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Well you're entitled to your opinion, but alot of people consider Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin to be greatest of all-time. At the end of the day, it's a very subjective thing. Though if there is one wrestler who has the greatest claim to that title it's probably Ric Flair.

The Undertaker v AJ Styles thing was not really a match, it was more like a movie, so for me that can't be compared to matches like Shawn v Flair or Shawn v Undertaker. And as far as the finish of this match is concerned, I feel like it did the job, because this is exactly the reaction you would expect to a beloved wrestler like Cena tapping out in his last match. I guess one alternative could have been Cena passing out, instead of 'giving up', but who's to say it wasn't Cena's idea to tap out?
 
So let me get this straight, Adam Pearce is mad at Gunther for doing his job? He wins a match and for that his punishment is getting kicked out of the building the next night? All of this makes even less sense considering everyone knew it was Cena's last match, so it's not like Gunther ended his career either. And then to follow that up, you have AJ standing next to Gunther's car like a bum - in a t-shirt in the freezing cold, no less!

What a terrible follow-up and what a lame way to get set up one of the true dream matches in WWE that we haven't seen so far: AJ v Gunther.

 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Unpopular opinion considering what I've read online so far but I thought this is almost exactly how Cena's last match should have gone. I only thing I wouldn't have done is milking the sleeper hold for as long as they did. It was a bit much.

Months ago, I said that I would have Gunther beat John Cena in Cena's last match in Boston. If you would have asked me what the finish should be, I would have gone for this exact same finish which was Cena tapping out to Gunther. So personally speaking, I am mostly happy with how it all played out.

I know alot of people wanted the happy feel-good ending, but the reality is that in life you don't always get a happy ending. Life is harsh and brutal, and good doesn't always triumph over evil. Sometimes life is just about getting knocked out and walked over by an unstoppable Austrian machine. Cena losing this match---and in the manner he lost---worked in kayfabe. Logically speaking, a 48-year old veteran wrestling his last match shouldn't be able to beat a top-level regular like Gunther, who has lost maybe a handful of matches in the past few years.

Gunther beating Cena also adds to Gunther's legacy, but doesn't diminish Cena's legacy in any way because of what he has already accomplished in the business. I'm not going to give Triple H any credit for this because I came up with the idea independently and long before he executed it on TV, and it because I think this finish was a no-brainer, but I will say that I don't agree with the reaction online AT ALL. I see no reason why Cena should have won his last match. I don't recall Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels winning their last matches, and those were two of the greatest retirement matches of all-time. Even Terry Funk lost his original retirement match to Bret Hart.

At the end of the day, the long-term impact of making someone (Gunther in this case) outweighs the short-term gain of sending the fans home happy.
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This was all expected and we knew it well in advance but the closer we got to it & going by creative booking patterns, it was just not going to work.

I took something from this tour but a lot of people just didn’t, and to go out like this was a slap in the face of Cena’s legacy and all the fans who were extorted, this is not how you end a major event in any entertainment medium, and if anything, Cena should have left this business in an uplifting manner, if not for himself, but for all the kids with cancer who literally call for him on their death beds.

I liked the idea behind it but the execution is shocking, it was not done for the right reasons and I just know they were not going to do anything with all this heat, worse still, the booker is the one who has stolen the limelight here.

Gunther should be booked like the biggest star in wrestling hereon, but that’s just not going to happen and we both know that. H did this not just to fulfil Cena’s wishes but satisfy his own fragile ego and he wont allow any of these wrestlers to truly take off & spread their wings and has wanted to take WWE backwards my making it more of a niche genre.

It’s part ego, part low IQ and part 4/10 vision; he has been involved in some huge events & matches in his career & in every spot he turned the crowd mild or sour, he generates the worst go away heat there is.

In his delusional world he can’t fathom the heat because he genuinely believes he is the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots.

I mean what did people expect, whether you loved him or hated him, Cena has been a big part of our lives and the great era of wrestling we grew up watching, one thing’s for sure, he earned our respect and became a hugely inspiring figure outside the ring. More people are upset with this than when Hogan died, this is the guy from our era.

As much as he wanted to give to this business, someone with a pulse would have taken him to the side and come up with better creative than this.

You don’t even need to see Gunther’s next few matches to know that he will go 50/50, you wont get a guy over like that and if RAW was anything to go by I have no words.

I seriously wouldn’t be watching this garbage was it not for one CM Punk, it feels extremely painful to watch & they will pay for this in the year ahead, terrible business all round.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Well you're entitled to your opinion, but alot of people consider Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin to be greatest of all-time. At the end of the day, it's a very subjective thing. Though if there is one wrestler who has the greatest claim to that title it's probably Ric Flair.

The Undertaker v AJ Styles thing was not really a match, it was more like a movie, so for me that can't be compared to matches like Shawn v Flair or Shawn v Undertaker. And as far as the finish of this match is concerned, I feel like it did the job, because this is exactly the reaction you would expect to a beloved wrestler like Cena tapping out in his last match. I guess one alternative could have been Cena passing out, instead of 'giving up', but who's to say it wasn't Cena's idea to tap out?
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With the finish speaking from what should be done, then in the wrestling world it was perfect, if he passes out like Austin he doesn’t get Gunther over so you can justify the tap here. But this is where the promoter gut comes in, and when something doesn’t feel right you follow your gut, the reaction to this has been like he died in the ring, a bit like our childhood of watching him during the RA era & all those memories, along with the fighting spirit of the kids who support him etc All the heat went to the booker & a day which should have ended with a proper celebration, it was a funeral mate and not the one I wanted to see, and can’t imagine what it was like for those who paid 2 grand.

And Cena most likely did come up with it, quiet poetic and as adults we can make sense of it, but H didn’t see it that way - and you wont see a satisfying pay off to all this either, his petty side would have responded to Cena like yeah, you want to put over x and get kicked in the nuts by y, you took the thought right out my head! If it was Cena’s idea, what was stopping H from saying, yeah man, thanks, but we can do things a bit differently;
 
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shaz619 said:
With the finish speaking from what should be done, then in the wrestling world it was perfect, if he passes out like Austin he doesn’t get Gunther over so you can justify the tap here. But this is where the promoter gut comes in, and when something doesn’t feel right you follow your gut, the reaction to this has been like he died in the ring, a bit like our childhood of watching him during the RA era & all those memories, along with the fighting spirit of the kids who support him etc All the heat went to the booker & a day which should have ended with a proper celebration, it was a funeral mate and not the one I wanted to see, and can’t imagine what it was like for those who paid 2 grand.

And Cena most likely did come up with it, quiet poetic and as adults we can make sense of it, but H didn’t see it that way - and you wont see a satisfying pay off to all this either, his petty side would have responded to Cena like yeah, you want to put over x and get kicked in the nuts by y, you took the thought right out my head! If it was Cena’s idea, what was stopping H from saying, yeah man, thanks, but we can do things a bit differently;
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I wouldn't have minded the choke out. They definitely could have done that. I liked the current finish but I can understand where the fans are coming from saying that Cena shouldn't have given up.
 
shaz619 said:
We should ask why?

Just because he was hand picked by Vince, this hard working talent was kept in the dog house for years and completely buried on TV by Triple 2incher.
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Now Triple H will act like this was his plan all along, eventhough the way he buried Austin Theory - I don't think anyone has gotten that kind of treatment. He looked like such a jobber cashing in his MITB on the US Champion, and then not even being able to win that midcard belt. Nobody has been hurt by Vince leaving more than this guy. And even now I think we all know that he is just going to be the flunkey of this group who takes all the pins.
 
shaz619 said:
This was all expected and we knew it well in advance but the closer we got to it & going by creative booking patterns, it was just not going to work.

I took something from this tour but a lot of people just didn’t, and to go out like this was a slap in the face of Cena’s legacy and all the fans who were extorted, this is not how you end a major event in any entertainment medium, and if anything, Cena should have left this business in an uplifting manner, if not for himself, but for all the kids with cancer who literally call for him on their death beds.

I liked the idea behind it but the execution is shocking, it was not done for the right reasons and I just know they were not going to do anything with all this heat, worse still, the booker is the one who has stolen the limelight here.

Gunther should be booked like the biggest star in wrestling hereon, but that’s just not going to happen and we both know that. H did this not just to fulfil Cena’s wishes but satisfy his own fragile ego and he wont allow any of these wrestlers to truly take off & spread their wings and has wanted to take WWE backwards my making it more of a niche genre.

It’s part ego, part low IQ and part 4/10 vision; he has been involved in some huge events & matches in his career & in every spot he turned the crowd mild or sour, he generates the worst go away heat there is.

In his delusional world he can’t fathom the heat because he genuinely believes he is the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots.

I mean what did people expect, whether you loved him or hated him, Cena has been a big part of our lives and the great era of wrestling we grew up watching, one thing’s for sure, he earned our respect and became a hugely inspiring figure outside the ring. More people are upset with this than when Hogan died, this is the guy from our era.

As much as he wanted to give to this business, someone with a pulse would have taken him to the side and come up with better creative than this.

You don’t even need to see Gunther’s next few matches to know that he will go 50/50, you wont get a guy over like that and if RAW was anything to go by I have no words.

I seriously wouldn’t be watching this garbage was it not for one CM Punk, it feels extremely painful to watch & they will pay for this in the year ahead, terrible business all round.
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I definitely feel like the whole retirement run should have been booked alot better. I still don't know what was achieved by Brock returning and just annihilating him, and the heel turn in general just did not work IMO. But for me, this was always the match he should have ended the run with. I do agree with you that Triple H making it about himself really hurt Gunther because all the heat should have been on him. There was no reason for H to come out at the end, because it seemed quite obvious by the fan reaction that they would not be happy with Triple H showing his face, but this egomaniac rarely misses an opportunity to have all the limelight on him... it's pathetic and desperate honestly. He even had to go in the ring and hug him as if they are best friends (lol). And even someone like Gunther who is a classic case of someone who manages to succeed inspite of the booking can't seem to shake off tapping out to the company mascot at WrestleMania. I will say though that I was a bit surprised by the crowd reaction. I'm not sure why so many fans were expecting Cena to win. I guess the tap-out can be considered as a surprise, but whatever... it is what it is I guess. If they manage to screw up Gunther's booking from there then there is something deeply wrong with them. And I'm not talking about just H (who we all know is a moron) but the entire WWE system.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Now Triple H will act like this was his plan all along, eventhough the way he buried Austin Theory - I don't think anyone has gotten that kind of treatment. He looked like such a jobber cashing in his MITB on the US Champion, and then not even being able to win that midcard belt. Nobody has been hurt by Vince leaving more than this guy. And even now I think we all know that he is just going to be the flunkey of this group who takes all the pins.
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He looked like a big dork in the background with camera mainly focussed on the Brons, he may well have been taken for a fan with that pointless wide camera shot which H would have ordered some mitai over because he’s such a genius for coming up with that
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I definitely feel like the whole retirement run should have been booked alot better. I still don't know what was achieved by Brock returning and just annihilating him, and the heel turn in general just did not work IMO. But for me, this was always the match he should have ended the run with. I do agree with you that Triple H making it about himself really hurt Gunther because all the heat should have been on him. There was no reason for H to come out at the end, because it seemed quite obvious by the fan reaction that they would not be happy with Triple H showing his face, but this egomaniac rarely misses an opportunity to have all the limelight on him... it's pathetic and desperate honestly. He even had to go in the ring and hug him as if they are best friends (lol). And even someone like Gunther who is a classic case of someone who manages to succeed inspite of the booking can't seem to shake off tapping out to the company mascot at WrestleMania. I will say though that I was a bit surprised by the crowd reaction. I'm not sure why so many fans were expecting Cena to win. I guess the tap-out can be considered as a surprise, but whatever... it is what it is I guess. If they manage to screw up Gunther's booking from there then there is something deeply wrong with them. And I'm not talking about just H (who we all know is a moron) but the entire WWE system.
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With the fans, they certainly didn’t want to see him lose by submission in that manner & may have better digested a pin-fall loss, and on top of that I think it started to sink in that this was his final match, heck I am not his biggest fan but just watching grow up kind of got to me and it became a highly charged affair and it would have been much higher for his die hard supporters, I think whether you hated him or loved him, what dawned on everybody is that there will never be another John Cena in & out the ring, like that last ray of light fading away.

Man what has the world come to when sh!t stain is talking sense:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2001350312964297034
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Taker trying to score some brownie points with the fans by taking shots at his wife.

Looks like somebody's going to be sleeping on the couch tonight :sarf2

https://twitter.com/x/status/2001319570364088743
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Look, Taker can do whatever he wants because he’s Taker, but honestly, I hate his wife man, would love to see her get tombstoned on that table and then take the slam from Henry right after; am sure we can replicate it in SvR 2007, Henry vs Torrie was my favourite match to make
 
shaz619 said:
Punk respects HBK but it is so funny that he has been throwing shade at him for years like this 🤣 And Shawn to be fair has taken it, if it was H that flower puss wouldn’t go to bed at night
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I'm pretty sure Punk had some kind of bad experience where Shawn was guilty by association because he was friends with Triple H and they were doing the DX thing. Still this is a pretty top-tier quip :ROFLMAO:
 
shaz619 said:
Look, Taker can do whatever he wants because he’s Taker, but honestly, I hate his wife man, would love to see her get tombstoned on that table and then take the slam from Henry right after; am sure we can replicate it in SvR 2007, Henry vs Torrie was my favourite match to make
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She does not come off well at all. And it's too obvious. Some people just aren't natural at this kind of stuff... shoving her down everyone's throats just makes people more resentful and hurts the show
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm pretty sure Punk had some kind of bad experience where Shawn was guilty by association because he was friends with Triple H and they were doing the DX thing. Still this is a pretty top-tier quip :ROFLMAO:
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Best thing about it is that it’s all true, Bryan didn’t learn anything in the Texas academy & don’t think Shawn ran it, it was a good project to help him get back on his feet I reckon, but that time is interesting because there is archive footage of Shawn taking a few bumps with some of the students, maybe that planted the seeds for his comeback
 
Horrible week in wrestling but what about Punk’s promo @RedwoodOriginal

I can tell Bron gave him the license to say whatever and had the awareness to bring out this side of Punk which is neutralised by management normally - a guy he watched a lot, the energy was similar to some of his AEW segments when he came back.
 
@Suleiman Cena is doing an interview with Cody’s pod this week to take the heat off H’s backside, I am 99% certain he will take all the heat for everything but we know the truth.
 
shaz619 said:
@Suleiman Cena is doing an interview with Cody’s pod this week to take the heat off H’s backside, I am 99% certain he will take all the heat for everything but we know the truth.
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Yep. A company man through and through, but honestly he should’ve put his foot down at the very start and said either let me do the retirement tour my way, where he originally wanted 220 dates and cleared out his entire film schedule, or I’m out.

But tbh he just wanted to have fun with the fans and that’s what he did. He knew long term Kutta can’t hurt his legacy.

I bet Kutta will contemplate about each boo or you fucked up chant from the weekend at least a hundred thousand times. A true man child.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Unpopular opinion considering what I've read online so far but I thought this is almost exactly how Cena's last match should have gone. I only thing I wouldn't have done is milking the sleeper hold for as long as they did. It was a bit much.

Months ago, I said that I would have Gunther beat John Cena in Cena's last match in Boston. If you would have asked me what the finish should be, I would have gone for this exact same finish which was Cena tapping out to Gunther. So personally speaking, I am mostly happy with how it all played out.

I know alot of people wanted the happy feel-good ending, but the reality is that in life you don't always get a happy ending. Life is harsh and brutal, and good doesn't always triumph over evil. Sometimes life is just about getting knocked out and walked over by an unstoppable Austrian machine. Cena losing this match---and in the manner he lost---worked in kayfabe. Logically speaking, a 48-year old veteran wrestling his last match shouldn't be able to beat a top-level regular like Gunther, who has lost maybe a handful of matches in the past few years.

Gunther beating Cena also adds to Gunther's legacy, but doesn't diminish Cena's legacy in any way because of what he has already accomplished in the business. I'm not going to give Triple H any credit for this because I came up with the idea independently and long before he executed it on TV, and it because I think this finish was a no-brainer, but I will say that I don't agree with the reaction online AT ALL. I see no reason why Cena should have won his last match. I don't recall Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels winning their last matches, and those were two of the greatest retirement matches of all-time. Even Terry Funk lost his original retirement match to Bret Hart.

At the end of the day, the long-term impact of making someone (Gunther in this case) outweighs the short-term gain of sending the fans home happy.
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Which is exactly why you need hope. A superhero figure that can tell you to never give up. The Cena character was such that shouldn't have gone down like that. That's like having Superman die in his own film. (Sorry Dawn of Justice flashbacks)
If it was Edge, Lesnar, Dwayne or even Randy, it would have made sense to have him go down but for a beloved babyface whose core audience is kids and whose message is to never give up, it was a slap in the face of all those kids.
Austin elevated KO despite beating him. Taker won his final match.
You don't always have to have your retiring vet lose his final match that too especially by going totally against what the character stood for over 20 years.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
So let me get this straight, Adam Pearce is mad at Gunther for doing his job? He wins a match and for that his punishment is getting kicked out of the building the next night? All of this makes even less sense considering everyone knew it was Cena's last match, so it's not like Gunther ended his career either. And then to follow that up, you have AJ standing next to Gunther's car like a bum - in a t-shirt in the freezing cold, no less!

What a terrible follow-up and what a lame way to get set up one of the true dream matches in WWE that we haven't seen so far: AJ v Gunther.

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Didn't we already know how Mr Nose was going to ruin all the heat?
 
shaz619 said:
This was all expected and we knew it well in advance but the closer we got to it & going by creative booking patterns, it was just not going to work.

I took something from this tour but a lot of people just didn’t, and to go out like this was a slap in the face of Cena’s legacy and all the fans who were extorted, this is not how you end a major event in any entertainment medium, and if anything, Cena should have left this business in an uplifting manner, if not for himself, but for all the kids with cancer who literally call for him on their death beds.

I liked the idea behind it but the execution is shocking, it was not done for the right reasons and I just know they were not going to do anything with all this heat, worse still, the booker is the one who has stolen the limelight here.

Gunther should be booked like the biggest star in wrestling hereon, but that’s just not going to happen and we both know that. H did this not just to fulfil Cena’s wishes but satisfy his own fragile ego and he wont allow any of these wrestlers to truly take off & spread their wings and has wanted to take WWE backwards my making it more of a niche genre.

It’s part ego, part low IQ and part 4/10 vision; he has been involved in some huge events & matches in his career & in every spot he turned the crowd mild or sour, he generates the worst go away heat there is.

In his delusional world he can’t fathom the heat because he genuinely believes he is the greatest to ever lace a pair of boots.

I mean what did people expect, whether you loved him or hated him, Cena has been a big part of our lives and the great era of wrestling we grew up watching, one thing’s for sure, he earned our respect and became a hugely inspiring figure outside the ring. More people are upset with this than when Hogan died, this is the guy from our era.

As much as he wanted to give to this business, someone with a pulse would have taken him to the side and come up with better creative than this.

You don’t even need to see Gunther’s next few matches to know that he will go 50/50, you wont get a guy over like that and if RAW was anything to go by I have no words.

I seriously wouldn’t be watching this garbage was it not for one CM Punk, it feels extremely painful to watch & they will pay for this in the year ahead, terrible business all round.
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Some things just feel wrong. Just like Taker's Mania match with Roman.
As the OTC, no one would have had any problem with Roman beating Taker, but at that point in time as the Big Dog, it sucked massively. But Vince had Roman take all the heat and had the momentum given to Braun who proceeded to beat Roman twice clean and once via DQ right after that Taker match.
Nose is going to ruin all the heat and in one shot has already ruined Cena's final match and is on his way to ruining Gunther.
 
shaz619 said:
With the finish speaking from what should be done, then in the wrestling world it was perfect, if he passes out like Austin he doesn’t get Gunther over so you can justify the tap here. But this is where the promoter gut comes in, and when something doesn’t feel right you follow your gut, the reaction to this has been like he died in the ring, a bit like our childhood of watching him during the RA era & all those memories, along with the fighting spirit of the kids who support him etc All the heat went to the booker & a day which should have ended with a proper celebration, it was a funeral mate and not the one I wanted to see, and can’t imagine what it was like for those who paid 2 grand.

And Cena most likely did come up with it, quiet poetic and as adults we can make sense of it, but H didn’t see it that way - and you wont see a satisfying pay off to all this either, his petty side would have responded to Cena like yeah, you want to put over x and get kicked in the nuts by y, you took the thought right out my head! If it was Cena’s idea, what was stopping H from saying, yeah man, thanks, but we can do things a bit differently;
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And the pro wrestling has defeated sports entertainment just felt like an indirect shot towards Vince which made it even more cringe.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Now Triple H will act like this was his plan all along, eventhough the way he buried Austin Theory - I don't think anyone has gotten that kind of treatment. He looked like such a jobber cashing in his MITB on the US Champion, and then not even being able to win that midcard belt. Nobody has been hurt by Vince leaving more than this guy. And even now I think we all know that he is just going to be the flunkey of this group who takes all the pins.
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And he wasted that 2 year long storyline of Theory and Waller culminating in a nothing. An on air mention of disbandment only
 
shaz619 said:
The storylines in the early SvR games are 10x more interesting.

The only reason for me to tune in are CM Punk and AJ Styles, one of them is retiring next year…
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I've heard rumors that Lesnar is retiring next year too.

Not to mention, Jericho...

Three more wrestlers whose retirements Triple H can screw up.

Jericho gonna get the Triple H golden shovel special for old time's sake :sarf2
 
shaz619 said:
Horrible week in wrestling but what about Punk’s promo @RedwoodOriginal

I can tell Bron gave him the license to say whatever and had the awareness to bring out this side of Punk which is neutralised by management normally - a guy he watched a lot, the energy was similar to some of his AEW segments when he came back.
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All his lines focused on the Steiners were pure gold. Great promo, but the booking feels way too obvious. Punk beats Bron on the RAW premiere → Bron wins the the Rumble → Bron beats Punk for the belt at WrestleMania.

Hopefully Punk and Heyman can make the promos interesting.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Which is exactly why you need hope. A superhero figure that can tell you to never give up. The Cena character was such that shouldn't have gone down like that. That's like having Superman die in his own film. (Sorry Dawn of Justice flashbacks)
If it was Edge, Lesnar, Dwayne or even Randy, it would have made sense to have him go down but for a beloved babyface whose core audience is kids and whose message is to never give up, it was a slap in the face of all those kids.
Austin elevated KO despite beating him. Taker won his final match.
You don't always have to have your retiring vet lose his final match that too especially by going totally against what the character stood for over 20 years.
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Bro, how old are you? 13? I can understand a kid being upset about it, but you’re not a kid lol. If you want some corny, feel-good message about hope, go watch a Disney movie. This was realistic and true to life, which is exactly what it should ahve been

It made zero logical sense to have a part-timer like Cena beat the most dominant wrestler in the WWE, who has literally lost a handful of times since coming on the main-roster. If you wanted Cena to win his last match then it never should have been against Gunther. But I am glad that it was because Cena elevated Gunther and now that's something that he can carry with him for the rest of his career. And eventhough 4/10 managed to make alot of it about himself (like he always does) Gunther still had some molten heat on him when he came out on RAW. At the end of the day, making new stars is the lifeblood of this business and it makes complete logical sense for a machine like Gunther to beat Cena convincingly. If anything it was a full-circle moment considering how many times Cena has (in kayfabe) overcome these big monsters like Umaga, Big Show, Lesnar etc. He finally ran into a monster he could not overcome. In alot of ways, it was like an old gunslinger finally getting in a duel he could not win because father time had passed him by.

Taker's last match was not a match. It was a cinematic short film. And Austin's actual last match was against The Rock at WrestleMania 19, which he lost.
 
shaz619 said:
He works out in the gym with these guys, I’d be MVP’s best bud & pay for his gym membership to for all the interviews :yk3
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Even though he has done a lot of things post WWE, if I ever meet him first thing going through my mind will be him having to job to the custom 7’0” freak of nature abomination I whipped up in create a character back in SVR 08/09 in career mode every single time I played 💀
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bro, how old are you? 13? I can understand a kid being upset about it, but you’re not a kid lol. If you want some corny, feel-good message about hope, go watch a Disney movie. This was realistic and true to life, which is exactly what it should ahve been

It made zero logical sense to have a part-timer like Cena beat the most dominant wrestler in the WWE, who has literally lost a handful of times since coming on the main-roster. If you wanted Cena to win his last match then it never should have been against Gunther. But I am glad that it was because Cena elevated Gunther and now that's something that he can carry with him for the rest of his career. And eventhough 4/10 managed to make alot of it about himself (like he always does) Gunther still had some molten heat on him when he came out on RAW. At the end of the day, making new stars is the lifeblood of this business and it makes complete logical sense for a machine like Gunther to beat Cena convincingly. If anything it was a full-circle moment considering how many times Cena has (in kayfabe) overcome these big monsters like Umaga, Big Show, Lesnar etc. He finally ran into a monster he could not overcome. In alot of ways, it was like an old gunslinger finally getting in a duel he could not win because father time had passed him by.

Taker's last match was not a match. It was a cinematic short film. And Austin's actual last match was against The Rock at WrestleMania 19, which he lost.
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Which is what I still maintain. Booking Cena to face Gunther was booking themselves into a corner just like booking Oba vs Cody when neither of the two should be losing.

The fans who came to see Cena wrestle his final match didn't come to watch a technical masterpiece. Maybe only 30% of the wrestling fans enjoy technical wrestling. Majority of the fans are kids at the end of the day. And they didn't come there to see Cena trying to escape a rear naked choke for 10 mins only to tap out.

The story build was absent. Cena and Gunther shared no history, not even any promo segment. If they were going to book a feud, atleast have the two interact before time.

It felt like a forced move especially when there were guys like Roman and Drew were available. KO would have been an ideal final opponent for him if he wasn't injured. Roman knows how to get the crowd invested just through his body language and a loss for the tribal chief wouldn't have derailed his momentum.

Why Taker's final match worked was because it WAS NOT packaged as a technical classic. The two could have easily had it but you don't base your match around it if the retirement is booked a year in advance for a superhero like figure.
 
They're propping Gunther as the modern day legend killer after he ended Goldberg and Cena.

Randy might be next.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Which is what I still maintain. Booking Cena to face Gunther was booking themselves into a corner just like booking Oba vs Cody when neither of the two should be losing.

The fans who came to see Cena wrestle his final match didn't come to watch a technical masterpiece. Maybe only 30% of the wrestling fans enjoy technical wrestling. Majority of the fans are kids at the end of the day. And they didn't come there to see Cena trying to escape a rear naked choke for 10 mins only to tap out.

The story build was absent. Cena and Gunther shared no history, not even any promo segment. If they were going to book a feud, atleast have the two interact before time.

It felt like a forced move especially when there were guys like Roman and Drew were available. KO would have been an ideal final opponent for him if he wasn't injured. Roman knows how to get the crowd invested just through his body language and a loss for the tribal chief wouldn't have derailed his momentum.

Why Taker's final match worked was because it WAS NOT packaged as a technical classic. The two could have easily had it but you don't base your match around it if the retirement is booked a year in advance for a superhero like figure.
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I know it’s 2025 but I understand a wrestler having to go out on their back and Gunther should never lose to Cena. It’s just the execution of it all to satisfy all audiences and the consideration of when this match was to take place, more importantly, how you follow up.

But this was one of those 5* matches from Dave that could be doing more damage for the company than good,

- The management received go away heat, namely H, shouldn’t have had to come out like that.
- The event that delivered their best arena gate had majority of the audience displeased, this doesn’t help TKO’s extortionate business model.
- The RAW follow up was one of the worst episodes of the year and they failed to address the elephant in the room.

In hindsight the tour & final match especially will age better and it was the closest thing to Flair/Shawn in-terms of the Shakespearean Storytelling form of wrestling, but the execution could have been so much better & Cena’s career could rightly have been celebrated the way it deserved as well.

If he had to go over, I think the Cena charachter could have justified that to, but I wouldn’t have Gunther lose; but does it really even matter now after they assassinated his aura when he fought Jey Uso? People never forget that and again, they will not book him like Goldberg or Lesnar or even Kurt Angle; how can a mediocre 4/10 talent be trusted with anything…..
 
So Jim Ross JR wanted to be part of commentary for Cena final match, even approached HHHH but heshowed no interest . That would have been iconic.
 
Kianig89 said:
So Jim Ross JR wanted to be part of commentary for Cena final match, even approached HHHH but heshowed no interest . That would have been iconic.
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JR was allowed to do something like that for Taker’s match with Reigns, was a one off deal and Vince didn’t have any ego about it.

JR might still be with AEW @RedwoodOriginal I am not sure, but this is one of those where it doesn’t take away from either company.

If anything, it could have made the finishing stretch, that much more special.
 
shaz619 said:
JR was allowed to do something like that for Taker’s match with Reigns, was a one off deal and Vince didn’t have any ego about it.

JR might still be with AEW @RedwoodOriginal I am not sure, but this is one of those where it doesn’t take away from either company.

If anything, it could have made the finishing stretch, that much more special.
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Not sure if AEW would have allowed even if WWE wanted to. I think back in 2017, JR was in NJPW. And that was different because it wasn't like he was working for another American promotion that was in competition with WWE
 
shaz619 said:
JR was allowed to do something like that for Taker’s match with Reigns, was a one off deal and Vince didn’t have any ego about it.

JR might still be with AEW @RedwoodOriginal I am not sure, but this is one of those where it doesn’t take away from either company.

If anything, it could have made the finishing stretch, that much more special.
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Nalayakh’s ego is too big and he’s focused on useless things like a documentary where he ruins the magic of wrestling by “exposing” things backstage to make himself look like a genius and killing whatever was left of kayfabe.

to the point he is now justifying booking decisions on live tv. Lmao 🤡

Vince was probably regretting doing whatever he did that now his goofy son in law has the reigns.

Also, this popped up in my recommended yesterday :asghar :wenger

 
In that podcast with Cody, Cena went over by 35 mins, even though he’s very organized and timely. But you could see he really didn’t want to let go, says it himself that he knows he’s going ever time and instead of the usual politically correct answers he gives, this time he had some more depth.

I don’t think I’ve ever worn wrestling merch except as a kid when I wore the Rocky eyebrow t shirt, but if I got that bulldog t shirt with the broken chain links that Cena wore to the 08 rumble, I will take it, or the Las Vegas WM one from this year.
 
shaz619 said:
I know it’s 2025 but I understand a wrestler having to go out on their back and Gunther should never lose to Cena. It’s just the execution of it all to satisfy all audiences and the consideration of when this match was to take place, more importantly, how you follow up.

But this was one of those 5* matches from Dave that could be doing more damage for the company than good,

- The management received go away heat, namely H, shouldn’t have had to come out like that.
- The event that delivered their best arena gate had majority of the audience displeased, this doesn’t help TKO’s extortionate business model.
- The RAW follow up was one of the worst episodes of the year and they failed to address the elephant in the room.

In hindsight the tour & final match especially will age better and it was the closest thing to Flair/Shawn in-terms of the Shakespearean Storytelling form of wrestling, but the execution could have been so much better & Cena’s career could rightly have been celebrated the way it deserved as well.

If he had to go over, I think the Cena charachter could have justified that to, but I wouldn’t have Gunther lose; but does it really even matter now after they assassinated his aura when he fought Jey Uso? People never forget that and again, they will not book him like Goldberg or Lesnar or even Kurt Angle; how can a mediocre 4/10 talent be trusted with anything…..
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Yes For me prowrestling is more about how it makes you feel emotionally rather than how good the in ring action is. For people who will look back the retirement match, they might look at it favorably and the match itself may age well. But man it made the people who were watching the match in live time awful and displeased. and at that time we collectively felt we were getting ribbed.

The last time WWE received such type of heat was around Fiend Seth HIAC match
 
shaz619 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2001786409741619414

What I’ve seen over the past few days, traditional norms have been thrown out the window due to the impact Cena has had this century on everybody whether you loved or hated him, regardless of what was right or wrong this past weekend, the consensus is that it could have been better.
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MJF behind his character, am pretty sure is a big big fan of Cena, Punk, Edge etc
 
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