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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

@RedwoodOriginal I don’t want to spoil it for myself because when I watch a match after a while, it’s like seeing it for the first time again and you pick up things you didn’t see before, but I feel like there was a piledriver spot from that Flair/Funk match which lived long in my memory
 
The one man immune to the golden shovel of the reign of terror.
Plus Jericho doesn't need another 5 year run in WWE like he did in AEW. He's already a legend and a first ballot HOFer. Just around 1 year of Y2J. Hopefully Y2J will be more apprehensive towards Nose in getting his own creative get through to the WWE. Cena was too nice to just follow their orders with a shitty creative.
 
First time posting real wrestling here lol https://m.youtube.com/@TheKidGeorgio/shorts

Have yall seen this guy? Has been doing this take down or get a $1000 challenge for years; lost once but he deleted the video lol.

Shows how elite level wrestling really is. Think he was state or national level.

It’s no surprise Brock and Kurt were freak athletes in wrestling and pro wrestling. You need crazy strength in positions that will cause the average bloke to twist an ankle or break a hand, or if Allah na karay he breaks his friggin neck then no telling if he’ll ever come back.

Then you add to that that there’s level in there between State, actually making NCAA rankings, and then National and Olympic levels. The level difference shown when Kurt beat Brock back stage in a wrestling match, weighing less and with less height.

Same thing in MMA. Wrestling is the best base. It’s why Daniel Cormier despite being 5’7” was double champ in light heavy and heavyweight routinely fighting guys who were 6’2”+ because his base was that of an Olympic medalist wrestler like Kurt

He was actually supposed to fight Brock!! They even had a confrontation to build up the fight in the octagon pushing each other, but I believe Brock left for the WWE instead.

To the point that many firmly believe Daniel would’ve beaten Brock despite the size difference with superior striking and grappling.

But at the same time if Brock and Kurt both started MMA from the very beginning, there’s a very good chance that they would be world class champions. Brock already went pretty far despite getting in late.
 
First time posting real wrestling here lol https://m.youtube.com/@TheKidGeorgio/shorts

Have yall seen this guy? Has been doing this take down or get a $1000 challenge for years; lost once but he deleted the video lol.

Shows how elite level wrestling really is. Think he was state or national level.

It’s no surprise Brock and Kurt were freak athletes in wrestling and pro wrestling. You need crazy strength in positions that will cause the average bloke to twist an ankle or break a hand, or if Allah na karay he breaks his friggin neck then no telling if he’ll ever come back.

Then you add to that that there’s level in there between State, actually making NCAA rankings, and then National and Olympic levels. The level difference shown when Kurt beat Brock back stage in a wrestling match, weighing less and with less height.

Same thing in MMA. Wrestling is the best base. It’s why Daniel Cormier despite being 5’7” was double champ in light heavy and heavyweight routinely fighting guys who were 6’2”+ because his base was that of an Olympic medalist wrestler like Kurt

He was actually supposed to fight Brock!! They even had a confrontation to build up the fight in the octagon pushing each other, but I believe Brock left for the WWE instead.

To the point that many firmly believe Daniel would’ve beaten Brock despite the size difference with superior striking and grappling.

But at the same time if Brock and Kurt both started MMA from the very beginning, there’s a very good chance that they would be world class champions. Brock already went pretty far despite getting in late.
Think Brock's ploy was simply to get a bigger deal from WWE as he told later in 2019 that he was just too old for MMA at that point. And that tease for a switch back to UFC worked immensely in Brock's favor. Just one appearance at UFC and a picture with Dana White without even having filed for clearance of his name for PED testing fooled the whole world of wrestling and MMA into thinking he was going back.
Cormier and Brock have actually known each other since their high school days as both were freestyle wrestlers then and if I am not wrong they competed against each other back then. I saw an interview of Brock with Cormier a few years ago where they went down that memory lane.
Another reason why Gable Steveson was so hyped to become a success in WWE but for some reason never found going in prowrestling.
 
First time posting real wrestling here lol https://m.youtube.com/@TheKidGeorgio/shorts

Have yall seen this guy? Has been doing this take down or get a $1000 challenge for years; lost once but he deleted the video lol.

Shows how elite level wrestling really is. Think he was state or national level.

It’s no surprise Brock and Kurt were freak athletes in wrestling and pro wrestling. You need crazy strength in positions that will cause the average bloke to twist an ankle or break a hand, or if Allah na karay he breaks his friggin neck then no telling if he’ll ever come back.

Then you add to that that there’s level in there between State, actually making NCAA rankings, and then National and Olympic levels. The level difference shown when Kurt beat Brock back stage in a wrestling match, weighing less and with less height.

Same thing in MMA. Wrestling is the best base. It’s why Daniel Cormier despite being 5’7” was double champ in light heavy and heavyweight routinely fighting guys who were 6’2”+ because his base was that of an Olympic medalist wrestler like Kurt

He was actually supposed to fight Brock!! They even had a confrontation to build up the fight in the octagon pushing each other, but I believe Brock left for the WWE instead.

To the point that many firmly believe Daniel would’ve beaten Brock despite the size difference with superior striking and grappling.

But at the same time if Brock and Kurt both started MMA from the very beginning, there’s a very good chance that they would be world class champions. Brock already went pretty far despite getting in late.

I have deep admiration for wrestlers and their toughness, in-fact I have more respect for this sport then MMA as a whole, it’s no coincidence that greatest MMA fighters were from wrestling backgrounds, technically sound and extremely tough / mentally unbreakable. It would have been an interesting fight to see, DC/Brock, at that point I feel DC would have been a big favourite, but it would have been more interesting to see DC against a Lesnar during his best form as HW Champion, it’s still ridiculous how successful he became in the UFC despite getting in so late.
 
Apart from the ME, what a soulless RAW, they telegraphed Y2J and put on the drizzling sh!ts. Is this what we call a premier show? Nothing happened.
 
Bron as good as he is, far from the finished article; he 100% could do with more reps, maybe it’s a tad harsh because this was his first big title shot / lengthy match, and perhaps it was nerves to, in the long run this experience will benefit him for sure. You can still make a guy like Bron at this stage but the hierarchy is clueless with making stars. He was way more over-eager with his work & his timing was a little off, areas which can be sorted though.
 
- Cena: Gone
- Roman Reigns: Kept low profile
- Orton: Kept low profile & tasked to be media mascot
- Lesnar: Kept low profile
- AJ Styles: Stuck in the mid-card
- The Rock: Left due to creative differences

I wonder what’s causing ALL THIS? Could it be the charisma vacuum with a fragile ego, who can’t satisfy Stephanie properly when the lights go off.
 
Bron as good as he is, far from the finished article; he 100% could do with more reps, maybe it’s a tad harsh because this was his first big title shot / lengthy match, and perhaps it was nerves to, in the long run this experience will benefit him for sure. You can still make a guy like Bron at this stage but the hierarchy is clueless with making stars. He was way more over-eager with his work & his timing was a little off, areas which can be sorted though.
I noticed the same thing during his triple threat match against Ilja and JD and later on against Hayes as well. Some of spots are great but he somehow just disjointed in those matches too. Yet to watch his match against Punk though. Haven't been able to watch WWE properly for over a month now owing to the lack of excitement and stupid booking.
 
- Cena: Gone
- Roman Reigns: Kept low profile
- Orton: Kept low profile & tasked to be media mascot
- Lesnar: Kept low profile
- AJ Styles: Stuck in the mid-card
- The Rock: Left due to creative differences

I wonder what’s causing ALL THIS? Could it be the charisma vacuum with a fragile ego, who can’t satisfy Stephanie properly when the lights go off.
Hes lucky Orton respects him so much, and couldn’t really care about accolades so he’s happy to be ambassador / mascot or whatever. Unlike Kutta, he has actually evolved and grown mature with age.

the others have achieved everything there is to achieve in this industry, 50x over whatever Kutta could do, so at this point they don’t really care if he gives them their flowers or not. Unlike him they don’t have an ego about it.

Vince would work with his worst enemy if necessary to deliver A+ product, this guy can’t even do justice by the guys who look up to him and were good to him.
 
So sad to see our childhood hero getting treated like a sideshow bob on his own podcast by a talentless chick who went anywhere only through her connection to him…

Time to take her off the pod man. Let her throw a fit behind closed doors. It happens.

She’s gonna tank whatever relations and friendships he has with anyone in the business. Shes fully capable of burning all those bridges.
 
Hes lucky Orton respects him so much, and couldn’t really care about accolades so he’s happy to be ambassador / mascot or whatever. Unlike Kutta, he has actually evolved and grown mature with age.

the others have achieved everything there is to achieve in this industry, 50x over whatever Kutta could do, so at this point they don’t really care if he gives them their flowers or not. Unlike him they don’t have an ego about it.

Vince would work with his worst enemy if necessary to deliver A+ product, this guy can’t even do justice by the guys who look up to him and were good to him.

Eventually the sh!t stain people didn’t see was going to show, only a few of us saw it, he was the new shiny toy marks were excited over until he began to show his true colours, Orton’s a WWE lifer and wants to end his career there, and at this point like you said can’t be bothered with the politics of this insecure kutta who can’t fathom any of the big names because they remind him of his 1 incher.
 
So sad to see our childhood hero getting treated like a sideshow bob on his own podcast by a talentless chick who went anywhere only through her connection to him…

Time to take her off the pod man. Let her throw a fit behind closed doors. It happens.

She’s gonna tank whatever relations and friendships he has with anyone in the business. Shes fully capable of burning all those bridges.

I watched about 30 or so mins yesterday & the version of me from 2004-2005 was tearing up, to see one of my childhood hero’s (regarded as an outsider once upon a time) get his flowers from a legend like Taker, was soothing for my soul.

And I hate Michelle but I’ve never hated her more than I did until yesterday, now I completely understand why she’s such a toxic piece of garbage, any time an exchange was about to get really good between Taker & AJ, she had to disturb their momentum and I’ve not even gotten to the disrespect bit, but she was ruining a dream conversation we’ve been waiting for a long time.

It’s pretty mad though that Taker didn’t think The Rock or Cena would make it but he believed in AJ the moment he first saw him work in the 2000’s lol AJ Styles like Mourinho will always be the true special one.

If Vince wasn’t so snobby about watching wrestling outside WWE he would have signed AJ, he regrets not doing so 15 years earlier. AJ has states numerous times that Vince had never seen him work.
 
I noticed the same thing during his triple threat match against Ilja and JD and later on against Hayes as well. Some of spots are great but he somehow just disjointed in those matches too. Yet to watch his match against Punk though. Haven't been able to watch WWE properly for over a month now owing to the lack of excitement and stupid booking.

I think Bron put too much pressure on himself, it was a big occasion and he was working with one of his idols
 
I think Bron put too much pressure on himself, it was a big occasion and he was working with one of his idols
Maybe but Punk's usually the guy that gets the best out of others. But if you watch the triple threat from NXT Bron vs JD vs Ilja, the same thing happened there. Ilja and JD had insane in ring chemistry but Bron's spots sort of missed a bit. Could be the experience factor as Ilja and JD have years of indie experience which made them tango so well. Bron basically started his career from WWE.
Roman vs Seth vs Dean from FCW had a similar feel to it as Roman was a newbie to business back then. And Seth and Dean were experienced indie guys. But Roman has now eclipsed all of them both on mic and in the ring.
 
I watched about 30 or so mins yesterday & the version of me from 2004-2005 was tearing up, to see one of my childhood hero’s (regarded as an outsider once upon a time) get his flowers from a legend like Taker, was soothing for my soul.

And I hate Michelle but I’ve never hated her more than I did until yesterday, now I completely understand why she’s such a toxic piece of garbage, any time an exchange was about to get really good between Taker & AJ, she had to disturb their momentum and I’ve not even gotten to the disrespect bit, but she was ruining a dream conversation we’ve been waiting for a long time.

It’s pretty mad though that Taker didn’t think The Rock or Cena would make it but he believed in AJ the moment he first saw him work in the 2000’s lol AJ Styles like Mourinho will always be the true special one.

If Vince wasn’t so snobby about watching wrestling outside WWE he would have signed AJ, he regrets not doing so 15 years earlier. AJ has states numerous times that Vince had never seen him work.
AJ also said he was offered a deal by WWE back then but it was very less money.

AJ is someone whoever works with him, is left speechless. First it was Cena, then it was Taker. Truly a once in a lifetime talent AJ is.
Taker vs Bryan is another match I would have loved to see.
 
Shocking title change in Europe, let it be known:

- The men involved in the match pitched for it repeatedly but management declined months earlier (Wrestlepalooza).
- Senior members involved with creative & production began to support the idea.

In other words, this wasn’t something 4/10 wanted but the noise grew too loud internally & the business position took away the leverage he had. Also, the star in question wasn’t reportedly happy with his contract negotiations & am sure that must have rubbed the big nose the wrong way.

Decent match & while I’d have liked the 1st fall to have been the deciding fall, I will accept any scenario where this would be the end result, otherwise you’re simply murdering the character of what should be one of your biggest stars.

This should be a substantial reign + strong booking leading into WN, but am not filled with confidence yet, however for once the product feels a bit fresh, I hope the long term soul destroying plans don’t disturb this.
 
Thanks for posting this because you’ve reminded me that this was arguably Flair’s greatest match ever, it was of the same ilk of Austin v Bret from WM 13 and had the same if not superior intensity, Flair’s authenticity came from that & Funk found creative ways to be violent without insulting your intelligence, but reaching for the spinal cords which made you wince. For me I prefer this over the Steamboat matches because their whole rivalry for me was superior and this match was a great culmination of that, what do you think?
Might be my favorite match of both men. Now admittedly I haven't seen a ton of Terry Funk matches, but I can't imagine that he has had too many matches better than this. I agree completely. It's so refreshing to see a match where the violence feels real, and there are no tables, barbed wire bats etc.

Flair/Steamboat was more about the wrestling, this feud just felt more personal. I loved the match they had at the Great American Bash aswell but this one is in the special category. The angle at the end is also very memorable. So yeah, I think this rivalry was superior too.
 
First time posting real wrestling here lol https://m.youtube.com/@TheKidGeorgio/shorts

Have yall seen this guy? Has been doing this take down or get a $1000 challenge for years; lost once but he deleted the video lol.

Shows how elite level wrestling really is. Think he was state or national level.

It’s no surprise Brock and Kurt were freak athletes in wrestling and pro wrestling. You need crazy strength in positions that will cause the average bloke to twist an ankle or break a hand, or if Allah na karay he breaks his friggin neck then no telling if he’ll ever come back.

Then you add to that that there’s level in there between State, actually making NCAA rankings, and then National and Olympic levels. The level difference shown when Kurt beat Brock back stage in a wrestling match, weighing less and with less height.

Same thing in MMA. Wrestling is the best base. It’s why Daniel Cormier despite being 5’7” was double champ in light heavy and heavyweight routinely fighting guys who were 6’2”+ because his base was that of an Olympic medalist wrestler like Kurt

He was actually supposed to fight Brock!! They even had a confrontation to build up the fight in the octagon pushing each other, but I believe Brock left for the WWE instead.

To the point that many firmly believe Daniel would’ve beaten Brock despite the size difference with superior striking and grappling.

But at the same time if Brock and Kurt both started MMA from the very beginning, there’s a very good chance that they would be world class champions. Brock already went pretty far despite getting in late.
Brock could have continued on if he wasn’t suffering from such a severe case of diverticulitis back in 2011. Though I don't think he would have beaten Velasquez anyway, who was just an incredible fighter at his peak and an absolute beast. DC vs. Brock - it's interesting tbh. But I also think DC would have won just because Brock was past his prime when DC was at his. I enjoyed Brock's UFC run but I also thought his biggest weapon in UFC was his physicality. Even in the heavyweight division very few guys looked like him, or had that incredible athleticism and explosion. I don't think he needed to rely on his wrestling as much (especially when he was winning) as someone like DC who had to make up for their lack of size, with his speed, quickness and ability on the mat.
 
@RedwoodOriginal

His final great act, putting over Toni brother and not that mark:


I can’t recall if this was bs or not lol

It’s big rub from HH, out of everything on, this was what resonated with him and forced him to comment positively lol
Lmao, this is the first I'm hearing of this. I remember enjoying this match and thinking this is one of the better women's gimmick matches I've seen in recent times, but I never thought it would get the rub from HH :misbah
 
Bron as good as he is, far from the finished article; he 100% could do with more reps, maybe it’s a tad harsh because this was his first big title shot / lengthy match, and perhaps it was nerves to, in the long run this experience will benefit him for sure. You can still make a guy like Bron at this stage but the hierarchy is clueless with making stars. He was way more over-eager with his work & his timing was a little off, areas which can be sorted though.
Yeah, this match didn't do it for me dawg. It lacked a little something, and I think you're right on the money. Bron has progressed at such a rapid rate that sometimes we forget that this guy literally came into the business five years ago. And as good as he is, he ain't Kurt Angle. On top of that as you mentioned, he is not exactly getting the reps because of how much they have scaled back on the house-shows. I have no doubt that he will sort these minor issues out but it does make you question if he is ready to be put in that main-event position just yet. There are so many people you could have him work with before you finally decide to put the belt on him. But the way they booked him and this faction so far, it almost feels like he would have to win the belt in the next 3-4 months or it would bury him.
 
Shocking title change in Europe, let it be known:

- The men involved in the match pitched for it repeatedly but management declined months earlier (Wrestlepalooza).
- Senior members involved with creative & production began to support the idea.

In other words, this wasn’t something 4/10 wanted but the noise grew too loud internally & the business position took away the leverage he had. Also, the star in question wasn’t reportedly happy with his contract negotiations & am sure that must have rubbed the big nose the wrong way.

Decent match & while I’d have liked the 1st fall to have been the deciding fall, I will accept any scenario where this would be the end result, otherwise you’re simply murdering the character of what should be one of your biggest stars.

This should be a substantial reign + strong booking leading into WN, but am not filled with confidence yet, however for once the product feels a bit fresh, I hope the long term soul destroying plans don’t disturb this.
Seems like they will be doing Sami vs Drew at Mania now hopefully.
 
It would have been better if it was Austin but honestly Taker being there worked pretty well too.
Possibly the only two people the current egocentric version of Dwayne agreed to get beaten by that day. Austin and Taker. It's actually pretty good for WWE that Taker was there and accepted. Pretty sure Nose was itching to be the one to take him down with a pedigree had he not been told to stay away from the ring forever.
 
Possibly the only two people the current egocentric version of Dwayne agreed to get beaten by that day. Austin and Taker. It's actually pretty good for WWE that Taker was there and accepted. Pretty sure Nose was itching to be the one to take him down with a pedigree had he not been told to stay away from the ring forever.
Apparently Taker was sitting in the skybox with his wife and his old podcast show host watching the main-event. Then Taker tells them that he needs to go to the bathroom, and like 15 minutes later he's in the ring choke slamming The Rock, and his wife and the podcast host guy are just losing their minds lol. What a pro.
 
Seems like they will be doing Sami vs Drew at Mania now hopefully.
That would be an amazing storyline if they decide to pull the trigger on Sami this year. From what I recall, Sami has never beaten Drew in a singles match. Because they always make a point to mention it on commentary.
 
Apparently Taker was sitting in the skybox with his wife and his old podcast show host watching the main-event. Then Taker tells them that he needs to go to the bathroom, and like 15 minutes later he's in the ring choke slamming The Rock, and his wife and the podcast host guy are just losing their minds lol. What a pro.
Yeah but it would have looked way cooler if Taker was wearing his wrestling gear. Vince would have never had Taker show up to interfere in the main event of Mania in his regular clothes.
Hopefully another high profile mania main event ends up happening that has this magnitude of extravaganza or even more in 7-8 years time.
 
That would be an amazing storyline if they decide to pull the trigger on Sami this year. From what I recall, Sami has never beaten Drew in a singles match. Because they always make a point to mention it on commentary.
I booked Drew vs Sami vs Randy months ago during our Mania 42 booking for WHC lol.
It's actually even better that it might be for WWE championship.
And Drew vs Sami would be a great feud if booked right. But going by everything on how nose books, it's going to be anticlimactic in the worst way.
 
Yeah, this match didn't do it for me dawg. It lacked a little something, and I think you're right on the money. Bron has progressed at such a rapid rate that sometimes we forget that this guy literally came into the business five years ago. And as good as he is, he ain't Kurt Angle. On top of that as you mentioned, he is not exactly getting the reps because of how much they have scaled back on the house-shows. I have no doubt that he will sort these minor issues out but it does make you question if he is ready to be put in that main-event position just yet. There are so many people you could have him work with before you finally decide to put the belt on him. But the way they booked him and this faction so far, it almost feels like he would have to win the belt in the next 3-4 months or it would bury him.

H deserves a special garland around his neck for this booking conundrum, it’s kind of genius the multiple webs he can spin creatively to make sure you get buried.
 
Brock could have continued on if he wasn’t suffering from such a severe case of diverticulitis back in 2011. Though I don't think he would have beaten Velasquez anyway, who was just an incredible fighter at his peak and an absolute beast. DC vs. Brock - it's interesting tbh. But I also think DC would have won just because Brock was past his prime when DC was at his. I enjoyed Brock's UFC run but I also thought his biggest weapon in UFC was his physicality. Even in the heavyweight division very few guys looked like him, or had that incredible athleticism and explosion. I don't think he needed to rely on his wrestling as much (especially when he was winning) as someone like DC who had to make up for their lack of size, with his speed, quickness and ability on the mat.

It just blew my mind what Lesnar achieved, I had a field day at school in those days - so you’re the little B who thinks raslin’s fake right? Well MMA’s just full of P@@@y’s :akhtar
 
H deserves a special garland around his neck for this booking conundrum, it’s kind of genius the multiple webs he can spin creatively to make sure you get buried.
Triple Flair :yk :inti

Triple-H-Laughs.v1.jpg
 
Vince with a final rib before he left,

This is what he said to H:

‘You do you, forget everything I taught you, you do it your way.’

The 🤡🤡🤡🤡/10 way.
 
On one hand I’m happy that Drew finally won the title but at the same time instead of being booked like a super heel he’s being booked like a chicken heel crawling out of the steel cage, like Dominic Mysterio or the Miz, instead of walking out of the cage, weary, maybe even stumbling, but still being able to stand with his head held high… they seriously do undermine his physicality and presence. Imagine Undertaker or Kane or Batista crawling on the ground like that with the title all the way to the ramp lol

Maybe I’m asking for too much. But after killing this guy’s aura with back to back Ls he needs to be billed like the heel he was going into WM vs Seth for the WHC
 
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Brock could have continued on if he wasn’t suffering from such a severe case of diverticulitis back in 2011. Though I don't think he would have beaten Velasquez anyway, who was just an incredible fighter at his peak and an absolute beast. DC vs. Brock - it's interesting tbh. But I also think DC would have won just because Brock was past his prime when DC was at his. I enjoyed Brock's UFC run but I also thought his biggest weapon in UFC was his physicality. Even in the heavyweight division very few guys looked like him, or had that incredible athleticism and explosion. I don't think he needed to rely on his wrestling as much (especially when he was winning) as someone like DC who had to make up for their lack of size, with his speed, quickness and ability on the mat.
Spot on analysis. Cane was a beast, I pray In Sha Allah he gets justice for what those filthy pdf dogs did to his child and that he is free of being sentenced because he tried to protect his kid.

DC alongside his elite wrestling was just overall insanely strong despite his height. Lifting up guys 6’2+ 240+ lbs in the air and basically giving them a power slam as we see in pro wrestling before ground and pound was a sight to behold.

DC vs Brock and Khabib vs Tony Ferguson are my two dream match ups because they were all but booked, but due to other circumstances got cancelled..

Former i am still not sure who would’ve won to this day, but latter I do think Khabib was too methodical and precise to ward off Tony’s unpredictability at his peak.
 
Spot on analysis. Cane was a beast, I pray In Sha Allah he gets justice for what those filthy pdf dogs did to his child and that he is free of being sentenced because he tried to protect his kid.

DC alongside his elite wrestling was just overall insanely strong despite his height. Lifting up guys 6’2+ 240+ lbs in the air and basically giving them a power slam as we see in pro wrestling before ground and pound was a sight to behold.

DC vs Brock and Khabib vs Tony Ferguson are my two dream match ups because they were all but booked, but due to other circumstances got cancelled..

Former i am still not sure who would’ve won to this day, but latter I do think Khabib was too methodical and precise to ward off Tony’s unpredictability at his peak.
as in Khabib was too technically versed that he would’ve stormed Tony’s tactics and still find a way to submit him.
 
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On one hand I’m happy that Drew finally won the title but at the same time instead of being booked like a super heel he’s being booked like a chicken heel crawling out of the steel cage, like Dominic Mysterio or the Miz, instead of walking out of the cage, weary, maybe even stumbling, but still being able to stand with his head held high… they seriously do undermine his physicality and presence. Imagine Undertaker or Kane or Batista crawling on the ground like that with the title all the way to the ramp lol

Maybe I’m asking for too much. But after killing this guy’s aura with back to back Ls he needs to be billed like the heel he was going into WM vs Seth for the WHC

Drew just needs the same strong booking as H’s sonah puthar.

Lets see how it pans out because H doesn’t appear to be on board with Drew as champion & it took some pressure to get here.

There is no logic here that a guy who beat Lesnar clean in the ring & looks like an absolute specimen, should be booked like he’s still in 3MB
 
Where do you all rank Dusty Rhodes "Hard Times' promo in your All time list.
 
I have high hopes for Gunther v AJ. Let's hope they don't f the fans. The match is in Germany too so hit crowd = a guarantee. I hate that it's on RAW and not a PLE which means it will go through multiple commercial breaks but I guess that's the new garbage corporate model now..
 
Where do you all rank Dusty Rhodes "Hard Times' promo in your All time list.
It's a great promo, but if you ask any old-school wrestling fan, they'll tell you that Dusty cut numerous promos just like that, some as good as, or even better than, this one. For some reason, though, WWE chose that particular promo and plastered it across every documentary, video package, retrospective, and DVD they've produced on Dusty Rhodes. At the time, it was never regarded as this great, groundbreaking promo. In fact, for Dusty it was probably just another Saturday taping.
 
Where do you all rank Dusty Rhodes "Hard Times' promo in your All time list.

I second @RedwoodOriginal comments, it was just another weekend for Dusty, but because that promo got so over in years which passed, then yeah, it was arguably the best ever.

For me though, I think the promo which may just be the greatest ever, was Austin’s impromptu 3:16 shoot on Jake Roberts, because of the impact it had on the business, it gives me goosebumps. Austin got a slap on the wrist for it & they were not going gah gah over it backstage, but it resonated with the people massively, during the next taping there were 3:16 signs everywhere and it became the single biggest merch mover in the history of the WWF & the Austin era was alive.

Could that promo itself have ended WCW? Maybe?!! Has there ever been a promo that you can actually say it may have just ended a rival company? I am not sure.

My personal favourite though from the 90’s is when Ric returned to go full nuts on Eric Bischoff, that might be my favourite Flair promo ever, besides the one where he bladed I think in 2008 in his final year in wrestling (I didn’t watch anything after 2008 involving Flair because of how beautiful the retirement match was).

Funk, Piper, Jake Roberts - Man these guys just knew how to draw you in & get genuine heat.
 
I have high hopes for Gunther v AJ. Let's hope they don't f the fans. The match is in Germany too so hit crowd = a guarantee. I hate that it's on RAW and not a PLE which means it will go through multiple commercial breaks but I guess that's the new garbage corporate model now..

I was thinking the same, they’ve commercialised the normal TV tapings as well and sell them like they are PLE’s, so because we do those every few weeks, that doesn’t mean they can’t charge you an arm & leg to watch the regular episodes because the TKO model comes with a money printing machine attached on each fans behind 7 days a week.

I expect AJ to tap out, but I hope it’s a good match.

Drew / Cody exceeded expectations because on paper it was the worst 3 stages of hell match possible, H wanted them to do it because he had done it so many times before, but wasn’t going to give them the same bells & whistles, but Cody & Drew are so good they didn’t need them and everyone loved the match.
 
Wow, was that Gunther’s best match? AJ Styles came dressed ready for war & was allowed to go to that special place in the ring that only he can. I hope they don’t cool from this because we need AJ in this spot until he calls it a day.

This might be Gunther’s best match because AJ helped modernise his psychological work and actually was running circles around him, no disrespect to Gunther & he played his part, but AJ showcased why he’s in the upper echelons of the greatest ever.

I liked the finish as well and I hope we get a trilogy.

@RedwoodOriginal - Thoughts?

Recency bias, but my word what a match.
 
Wow, was that Gunther’s best match? AJ Styles came dressed ready for war & was allowed to go to that special place in the ring that only he can. I hope they don’t cool from this because we need AJ in this spot until he calls it a day.

This might be Gunther’s best match because AJ helped modernise his psychological work and actually was running circles around him, no disrespect to Gunther & he played his part, but AJ showcased why he’s in the upper echelons of the greatest ever.

I liked the finish as well and I hope we get a trilogy.

@RedwoodOriginal - Thoughts?

Recency bias, but my word what a match.
It was a pretty good match but I think they can do better. And that's not a knock on this match at all. This match played out this way by design, so they don't give away all the good stuff in the first match. And as the first match, it set the tone perfectly and I really liked the finish too. If they are doing a trilogy then I really hope that the last match is 2/3 falls or 30-minute Ironman. This match-up deserves that spotlight. But maybe I am getting ahead of myself...
 
I was thinking the same, they’ve commercialised the normal TV tapings as well and sell them like they are PLE’s, so because we do those every few weeks, that doesn’t mean they can’t charge you an arm & leg to watch the regular episodes because the TKO model comes with a money printing machine attached on each fans behind 7 days a week.

I expect AJ to tap out, but I hope it’s a good match.

Drew / Cody exceeded expectations because on paper it was the worst 3 stages of hell match possible, H wanted them to do it because he had done it so many times before, but wasn’t going to give them the same bells & whistles, but Cody & Drew are so good they didn’t need them and everyone loved the match.
It's weird seeing matches like these in WWE because you know they won't have blood or as you mentioned, all the bells and whistles you got back in the Ruthless Aggression era. Which is also why I think Punk v Drew in Hell in A Cell is in a league of it's own among modern WWE gimmick matches. But for what it was, this was good. I'm not sure how much sense it made for the first fall to be a straight-up wrestling match when the whole match is supposed to be '3 Stages of Hell', but whatever I guess. I thought the finish was a bit contrived and poorly executed, but it was a genuinely shocking title change and a much needed one I think. Drew McIntyre badly needed to have his credibility restored after the way he has been booked in the past couple of years, and Cody is far more interesting when he is chasing the belt.
 
It was a pretty good match but I think they can do better. And that's not a knock on this match at all. This match played out this way by design, so they don't give away all the good stuff in the first match. And as the first match, it set the tone perfectly and I really liked the finish too. If they are doing a trilogy then I really hope that the last match is 2/3 falls or 30-minute Ironman. This match-up deserves that spotlight. But maybe I am getting ahead of myself...

No absolutely, I agree, for this kind of match - designed to possibly set up a feud & maybe 1 or 2 more matches, it may be the best I’ve seen, or right up there with others in a similar position, e.g. like the first HBK/Jericho match when they started their rivalry in 2008. Maximised their time, progressed the story and set up the rematch whilst being creative from the first till the last bell.

There’s a SNME coming up & the RR, I think the feud will be short lived but it deserves more, like look how long Punk was stuck in the Kusrah Vortex, give these guys time because they will earn every second.

An iron-man match would be mind blowing, sad to think there are a handful off guys who could work that kind of match.
 
No absolutely, I agree, for this kind of match - designed to possibly set up a feud & maybe 1 or 2 more matches, it may be the best I’ve seen, or right up there with others in a similar position, e.g. like the first HBK/Jericho match when they started their rivalry in 2008. Maximised their time, progressed the story and set up the rematch whilst being creative from the first till the last bell.

There’s a SNME coming up & the RR, I think the feud will be short lived but it deserves more, like look how long Punk was stuck in the Kusrah Vortex, give these guys time because they will earn every second.

An iron-man match would be mind blowing, sad to think there are a handful off guys who could work that kind of match.
SNME feels like the right place for these guys to put on a show. SNME is off NBC so no issues with running through commercials either. They will have the platform to put on a proper match if they get the opportunity.

Yeah might be short-lived feud but if we get three AJ Styles v Gunther matches before Mania then I'll be more than happy.

Side-note, I hope they use RR to set up Gunther vs. Brock at WrestleMania. I don't know how much longer Brock is going to be around but surely this is the biggest match he can have right now that we haven't seen so far. For an event like WrestleMania it feels like a no-brainer.
 
SNME feels like the right place for these guys to put on a show. SNME is off NBC so no issues with running through commercials either. They will have the platform to put on a proper match if they get the opportunity.

Yeah might be short-lived feud but if we get three AJ Styles v Gunther matches before Mania then I'll be more than happy.

Side-note, I hope they use RR to set up Gunther vs. Brock at WrestleMania. I don't know how much longer Brock is going to be around but surely this is the biggest match he can have right now that we haven't seen so far. For an event like WrestleMania it feels like a no-brainer.

I know Lesnar will always be a draw wherever he goes & I don’t know what arrangement he has with the E, but under 4/10, he has little heat, and that doesn’t help Gunther, people were talking about this match more before Lesnar returned, it wouldn’t surprise me if H is deliberately keeping Lesnar out of the spotlight who himself cba with this clown and was maybe enticed by working with Lesnar one last time.

But I do like a little bit of unpredictability going into WM once, as long as it’s not something dumb which you don’t even have the courage to back all the way 12 months from now.
 
@shaz619 Rumors swirling that Powerhouse Hobbs is WWE bound and could debut in WWE as soon as his contract with AEW ends. If this is true then I think it will be an incredible signing for WWE. Ofcourse the 4/10 booking is something he will have to contend with but I strongly feel that he is one of those guys who will get over inspite of the booking. And when it comes to in-ring, he is advanced enough where he doesn't have to spend time in NXT and you can debut him on the main-roster straightaway.

There are alot of great potential match-ups and fresh opponents for him in WWE but for starters, can you imagine Powerhouse Hobbs v Oba Femi? Now that's a hoss fight!
 
@shaz619 Rumors swirling that Powerhouse Hobbs is WWE bound and could debut in WWE as soon as his contract with AEW ends. If this is true then I think it will be an incredible signing for WWE. Ofcourse the 4/10 booking is something he will have to contend with but I strongly feel that he is one of those guys who will get over inspite of the booking. And when it comes to in-ring, he is advanced enough where he doesn't have to spend time in NXT and you can debut him on the main-roster straightaway.

There are alot of great potential match-ups and fresh opponents for him in WWE but for starters, can you imagine Powerhouse Hobbs v Oba Femi? Now that's a hoss fight!

These guys kept Ricky Starks in NXT & had Jade Cargill debut on the main-roster, Hobbs is far more advanced. I think Ricky wanted to spend some time in NXT himself as well & that played a part, but there are ways to make an overnight star with a main roster introduction.

In WWE, the booking is dated & lacks soul, it seems there are efforts from the top brass to change things around a bit after getting fed up with H & the last few weeks have been promising going into the new year, I’m just wondering when they will realise that H needs to be replaced or positioned somewhere else, because there’s an easy fix for their problems; I assume he’s under contract, when that expires will be interesting, but H would stay on even with a cut & stop getting personally involved with creative plans for a short period before he’s comfortable enough to mess with everyone again.

But what Hobbs will have access to:

- World class infrastructure
- Elite coaches & mentors
- Some level of direction & structure, even if it will be predictable, it will be good for him after his AEW stint
- The opportunity to build his own brand globally & eventually, make more money.
- Future proof himself - because guys & gals who are let go by WWE, generally are positioned well to explore opportunities outside of wrestling as well.

And if he gets himself over, that would be a bonus & even better if he makes a friend with someone in management - He already knows a few people who can vouch for him as a personality & his work, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a negative thing being said about Powerhouse Hobbs.

But again, this boils my blood at the same time because it’s another reminder of what AEW could have been & why I stopped watching.
 
If I was booking Hobbs, I’d have him interrupt both Jey & Jimmy Uso after they hyped the crowd with the YEET garbage and then proceeds to absolutely destroy them.

But I know H likes to fondle newbies before he comes up with something remotely interesting after 12 months.
 
If I was booking Hobbs, I’d have him interrupt both Jey & Jimmy Uso after they hyped the crowd with the YEET garbage and then proceeds to absolutely destroy them.

But I know H likes to fondle newbies before he comes up with something remotely interesting after 12 months.
Reminds me of when Brock killed the Hardyz lol. If Vince was still booking he would have done this
 
Reminds me of when Brock killed the Hardyz lol. If Vince was still booking he would have done this

He just knew how to make stars & was open to some radical ideas, think Sheamus when he first came over.

Cody doesn’t have a belt now, Oba should squash him like a bug sooner rather than later, I think it was overlooked due to Cena’s retirement but Oba was quiet well received by a smart-ish crowd, he should be world champion within a minimum of 6 months.
 
He just knew how to make stars & was open to some radical ideas, think Sheamus when he first came over.

Cody doesn’t have a belt now, Oba should squash him like a bug sooner rather than later, I think it was overlooked due to Cena’s retirement but Oba was quiet well received by a smart-ish crowd, he should be world champion within a minimum of 6 months.
4/10 isn't capable of making this kind of a radical booking decision. Vince would have loved both these guys though, and pushed them to the moon. He was trying to make a star out of Ahmed Johnson at one point.
 
These guys kept Ricky Starks in NXT & had Jade Cargill debut on the main-roster, Hobbs is far more advanced. I think Ricky wanted to spend some time in NXT himself as well & that played a part, but there are ways to make an overnight star with a main roster introduction.

In WWE, the booking is dated & lacks soul, it seems there are efforts from the top brass to change things around a bit after getting fed up with H & the last few weeks have been promising going into the new year, I’m just wondering when they will realise that H needs to be replaced or positioned somewhere else, because there’s an easy fix for their problems; I assume he’s under contract, when that expires will be interesting, but H would stay on even with a cut & stop getting personally involved with creative plans for a short period before he’s comfortable enough to mess with everyone again.

But what Hobbs will have access to:

- World class infrastructure
- Elite coaches & mentors
- Some level of direction & structure, even if it will be predictable, it will be good for him after his AEW stint
- The opportunity to build his own brand globally & eventually, make more money.
- Future proof himself - because guys & gals who are let go by WWE, generally are positioned well to explore opportunities outside of wrestling as well.

And if he gets himself over, that would be a bonus & even better if he makes a friend with someone in management - He already knows a few people who can vouch for him as a personality & his work, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a negative thing being said about Powerhouse Hobbs.

But again, this boils my blood at the same time because it’s another reminder of what AEW could have been & why I stopped watching.
He's in good with the TKO top brass. If there's one thing he has always excelled at it's kissing a$$ and politicking. Plus, his wife is involved and he has established an opening with Trump, which I'm sure puts him in good stead with the org. It's hard to see him getting fired or being let go anytime soon.

Absolutely. That's the biggest benefit of going to WWE for an up and coming wrestler - that access to WWE's infrastructure is massive, and something no other wrestling company can provide him with. I also feel like the decision to go was not as difficult for him because he is essentially in the same place he was 3-4 years ago. Tony is just incapable of creating new stars. All the guys who get over there, get over on their own. The biggest selling-point of AEW is that if you're good, you can have the platform to do your thing like what MJF has been able to do.
 
He's in good with the TKO top brass. If there's one thing he has always excelled at it's kissing a$$ and politicking. Plus, his wife is involved and he has established an opening with Trump, which I'm sure puts him in good stead with the org. It's hard to see him getting fired or being let go anytime soon.

Absolutely. That's the biggest benefit of going to WWE for an up and coming wrestler - that access to WWE's infrastructure is massive, and something no other wrestling company can provide him with. I also feel like the decision to go was not as difficult for him because he is essentially in the same place he was 3-4 years ago. Tony is just incapable of creating new stars. All the guys who get over there, get over on their own. The biggest selling-point of AEW is that if you're good, you can have the platform to do your thing like what MJF has been able to do.

He’s very lucky with MJF who’s a unique once in a generation type performer, because apart from say Dom, there’s nobody out there quiet like him:

- <30 years old
- Supremely gifted on the mic
- Great respect for the business, and genuine student of the game unlike 4/10
- Excellent work ethic & keeps improving each year in the ring
- Came in with a profile & expanded that during AEW and got himself noticed by mainstream media

Tony Khan would be seriously stupid to neutralise his biggest asset in the company & it’s not the Bucks or Omega. And you can give him credit for at least not losing sight of MJF’s worth and am sure WWE scouts would have made sure of that.

But everyone else Tony would have had to work a lot harder to get over & have some kind of vision for them, Hobbs & Wardlow have been stuck in the mid-card for 5 years, I don’t even know what happened to Wardlow.

They say he don’t like big guys but he hasn’t gotten the smaller guys over either.

So unless someone is like a once in a generation kind of talent, then they will not escape Tony’s lack of direction I think.

Private Party, Sammy, Tazz’s kid & so many others promised so much, the mark just failed them and killed indies in the process, he’s only positive contribution to wrestling is cutting into the monopoly and giving wrestlers two TV options.
 
4/10 isn't capable of making this kind of a radical booking decision. Vince would have loved both these guys though, and pushed them to the moon. He was trying to make a star out of Ahmed Johnson at one point.

Do you envision a world where he could have given Junk Yard Dog a brief run with the title in the 80’s? Insanely charismatic, he was untouchable in the mid-south territory & while he didn’t become champ, Vince had him work with top guys and consistently in the upper mid-card, he was hugely popular and one of their best merch sellers as well. I think maybe him being a face and so popular in that era was a problem for his title pursuits? It wouldn’t have been a race thing for Vince but JYD I don’t think he won the big one anywhere apart from in the mid-south. Any old segment I watch of his and the crowds always going super nuts, and I liked playing as him in one of the SvR games.
 
I second @RedwoodOriginal comments, it was just another weekend for Dusty, but because that promo got so over in years which passed, then yeah, it was arguably the best ever.

For me though, I think the promo which may just be the greatest ever, was Austin’s impromptu 3:16 shoot on Jake Roberts, because of the impact it had on the business, it gives me goosebumps. Austin got a slap on the wrist for it & they were not going gah gah over it backstage, but it resonated with the people massively, during the next taping there were 3:16 signs everywhere and it became the single biggest merch mover in the history of the WWF & the Austin era was alive.

Could that promo itself have ended WCW? Maybe?!! Has there ever been a promo that you can actually say it may have just ended a rival company? I am not sure.

My personal favourite though from the 90’s is when Ric returned to go full nuts on Eric Bischoff, that might be my favourite Flair promo ever, besides the one where he bladed I think in 2008 in his final year in wrestling (I didn’t watch anything after 2008 involving Flair because of how beautiful the retirement match was).

Funk, Piper, Jake Roberts - Man these guys just knew how to draw you in & get genuine heat.
And Savage too! Something about him is magnetic. The words from his promos hit different whether they are said in character or out of.
This one clip in particular. There's no way he had rehearsed that, it just flew way too naturally off his tongue and he made it one of the pieces of advice that Cena does on twitter but delivered it much better than anyone else.
 
I second @RedwoodOriginal comments, it was just another weekend for Dusty, but because that promo got so over in years which passed, then yeah, it was arguably the best ever.

For me though, I think the promo which may just be the greatest ever, was Austin’s impromptu 3:16 shoot on Jake Roberts, because of the impact it had on the business, it gives me goosebumps. Austin got a slap on the wrist for it & they were not going gah gah over it backstage, but it resonated with the people massively, during the next taping there were 3:16 signs everywhere and it became the single biggest merch mover in the history of the WWF & the Austin era was alive.

Could that promo itself have ended WCW? Maybe?!! Has there ever been a promo that you can actually say it may have just ended a rival company? I am not sure.

My personal favourite though from the 90’s is when Ric returned to go full nuts on Eric Bischoff, that might be my favourite Flair promo ever, besides the one where he bladed I think in 2008 in his final year in wrestling (I didn’t watch anything after 2008 involving Flair because of how beautiful the retirement match was).

Funk, Piper, Jake Roberts - Man these guys just knew how to draw you in & get genuine heat.
The Rock and Cena are some of the greatest promos (consistency wise) ever! Rock was casually barely breaking a sweat roasting the whole roster or cranking it up to 10 when things got serious in 2000.

One of the best ever promos for me is Ziggler's Sometimes things you love, don't love you back.. Man the emotion in it, he's simply telling his story how he's failed to achieve his dreams. Ranks in top 10 for me that.
For Rock, Cena, Punk, Piper, Dusty, Savage, Ric, Jake, Austin, and even Hogan, they were consistently among the greatest talkers of all time. You can easily pick a top 10 list of each of their best promos, that's how good they were.
 
It's weird seeing matches like these in WWE because you know they won't have blood or as you mentioned, all the bells and whistles you got back in the Ruthless Aggression era. Which is also why I think Punk v Drew in Hell in A Cell is in a league of it's own among modern WWE gimmick matches. But for what it was, this was good. I'm not sure how much sense it made for the first fall to be a straight-up wrestling match when the whole match is supposed to be '3 Stages of Hell', but whatever I guess. I thought the finish was a bit contrived and poorly executed, but it was a genuinely shocking title change and a much needed one I think. Drew McIntyre badly needed to have his credibility restored after the way he has been booked in the past couple of years, and Cody is far more interesting when he is chasing the belt.
The combo of Street Fight, Cage and Ladder (HBK vs Nose at Armageddon 2002) was the best assembly of 3 stages of hell matches even though I hated that match due to Nose winning.
 
The combo of Street Fight, Cage and Ladder (HBK vs Nose at Armageddon 2002) was the best assembly of 3 stages of hell matches even though I hated that match due to Nose winning.
That was an awful amcth that showcased Triple H's worst instincts. Especially when it comes to needessly drawing out a match. It was unfortunate that Shawn had to be invovled in that snooze fest that seemingly went on forever. No, the best 3 Stages of Hell was Austin v HHH at No Way Out 2001. Now that was a bloody great match. EVen there 4/10 somehow managed to politick his way to going over,
 
The combo of Street Fight, Cage and Ladder (HBK vs Nose at Armageddon 2002) was the best assembly of 3 stages of hell matches even though I hated that match due to Nose winning.

I remember that match. It was a good one.

I was disappointed that HBK lost the title so quickly, however.

Those were the golden days. All matches were good.
 
That was an awful amcth that showcased Triple H's worst instincts. Especially when it comes to needessly drawing out a match. It was unfortunate that Shawn had to be invovled in that snooze fest that seemingly went on forever. No, the best 3 Stages of Hell was Austin v HHH at No Way Out 2001. Now that was a bloody great match. EVen there 4/10 somehow managed to politick his way to going over,
I said the 3 stipulations chosen there were the best. Street Fight followed by Steel Cage and culminating in Ladder Match.
You can't really put together three as diverse and interesting stipulations in a single match. The match that followed including the result of that was extremely awful.

The difference between the two is Austin saw through Nose's narcissism and stood his ground while Shawn was too generous to not say no to Paul's stupid ideas.

It can be booked in a much better way to give a closure to a big big feud with right guys and creative.
 
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