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Tim Bresnan: The new Kapil Dev?

Afridi better entertainer than Kapil? I think you got that horribly wrong. Afridi isn't fit to tie Kapil's shoe laces, Kapil beats him at every skill in cricket. Ev en the smile is more trolling. :kapil


to be frank do these people have any sense in what they are talking about? comparing Afridi who has scored only some 350 runs out side Asia to a legend like Kapil dev?
 
Afridi is a better entertainer than Kapil.
Kapil is better than Afridi and so are many other players.

But there is and only will be one Afridi.

:afridi



0(1), even this is entertaining.

For sure some people like clowns, some like heroes.
 
Afridi has a better average and better S/R than Kapil in test cricket

Afridi is a better batsman than Kapil in tests :afridi

Period is different. Kapil was at least as aggressive as Afridi ( if not more) when you take into account the period. Moreover, Kapil was dominant against WI, the team that every one dreaded during the 80s. And Afridi dominated which team and which bowlers?
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Afridi better entertainer than Kapil? I think you got that horribly wrong. Afridi isn't fit to tie Kapil's shoe laces, Kapil beats him at every skill in cricket. Ev en the smile is more trolling. :kapil

He finds Afridi more entertaining. That's his perception and personal view. No need to get worked up.
 
He finds Afridi more entertaining. That's his perception and personal view. No need to get worked up.

Then the better way to put it would be 'I find him more entertaining'. Doesn't make him a better entertainer in general, Kapil was quality and could take on the best of the players and in test cricket.
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Then the better way to put it would be 'I find him more entertaining'. Doesn't make him a better entertainer in general, Kapil was quality and could take on the best of the players and in test cricket.

Well we all speak for ourselves I guess. Calm down and control your punjabi aggression :kapil
 
For sure some people like clowns, some like heroes.

No actually apart from Indians would say that Afridi is the best Entertainer.

In that category Kapil isn't even fit to touch Afridi's shoes.

The only country that likes Indian Cricketers is, India.
 
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No actually apart from Indians would say that Afridi is the best Entertainer.

In that category Kapil isn't even fit to touch Afridi's shoes.

The only country that likes Indian Cricketers is, India.

Afridi has a fan base in Pakistan, and lots of Pakistanis do not rate him high. Kapil is revered every where in India and is widely regarded as the most talented cricketer India has ever produced.
 
No actually apart from Indians would say that Afridi is the best Entertainer.

In that category Kapil isn't even fit to touch Afridi's shoes.

The only country that likes Indian Cricketers is, India.

you need not speak generally of Indian cricketers
 
Afridi has a fan base in Pakistan, and lots of Pakistanis do not rate him high. Kapil is revered every where in India and is widely regarded as the most talented cricketer India has ever produced.

Yes Kapil is more talented and he is a much much better cricketer than Afridi is.

But, Afridi is more entertaining as simple as that, it is my opinion i am entitled to it and it isn't the end of the world if our opinions are not the same.

you need not speak generally of Indian cricketers

Indian Cricketers are respected in most Countries, but the Indian goes overboard with their praise, every time.

And when you compare how much they are praised in India than in other countries(where they are respected) you will find a huge difference, mainly because of the Indian people that always go overboard with their praise.

Like the God, King, Prince etc etc
 
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I couldn't care less if a Troll took me seriously or not.

Even trolls wont take you seriously for the last few hilariously foolish posts. Utter those words in front of a mirror and i bet you would laugh at yourself. :yk
 
Indian Cricketers are respected in most Countries, but the Indian goes overboard with their praise, every time.

And when you compare how much they are praised in India than in other countries(where they are respected) you will find a huge difference, mainly because of the Indian people that always go overboard with their praise.

Like the God, King, Prince etc etc

why blame cricketers for the blame of public? there might be people who go over board , but these type of people are every where in the world. i have observed people calling Imran lion of Pakistan and Akram as sultan of swing etc etc. i do not find any thing offensive in it.
 
Even trolls wont take you seriously for the last few hilariously foolish posts. Utter those words in front of a mirror and i bet you would laugh at yourself. :yk

Just like i don't care if a Troll takes me seriously or not, i don't care what a Troll thinks about my posts.

why blame cricketers for the blame of public? there might be people who go over board , but these type of people are every where in the world. i have observed people calling Imran lion of Pakistan and Akram as sultan of swing etc etc. i do not find any thing offensive in it.

Nor do i.

And i never blamed any Indian cricketer for this, please read my posts before making such claims
 
Nor do i.

And i never blamed any Indian cricketer for this, please read my posts before making such claims[/QUOTE]


sorry...it is 'dislike' instead of 'blame'
 
Nor do i.

And i never blamed any Indian cricketer for this, please read my posts before making such claims


sorry...it is 'dislike' instead of 'blame'[/QUOTE]

I have no reason to Dislike Indian cricketers.

I respect all the good Indian cricketers like Sir Jadeja.
 
Not long before Ahmed778 will start calling you two Liers... And he will keep calling that in every other post/thread till he realises that you are really ignoring him.
Is their a ignore button/facility where by we can ignore posts of certain individual?
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Problem with kapil paaji is that out of the 4 great all rounders of the 80s, he was the only one that cannot be classified as a great bowler or a great batsman.

Imran and hadlee were without doubt great bowlers. Botham probably squeezes in to the great bowlers category.

Kapil was quite far behind in bowling as hadlee was in batting to the rest. However, hadlee made up for it with the ball where he was a genuine great.

In that sense, i think there are similarities with Bresnan - I.e he will never be a great in either discipline. However, Bresnan has a long way to go. Kapil as an all rounder was an undoubted great.
 
Problem with kapil paaji is that out of the 4 great all rounders of the 80s, he was the only one that cannot be classified as a great bowler or a great batsman.

Imran and hadlee were without doubt great bowlers. Botham probably squeezes in to the great bowlers category.

Kapil was quite far behind in bowling as hadlee was in batting to the rest. However, hadlee made up for it with the ball where he was a genuine great.

In that sense, i think there are similarities with Bresnan - I.e he will never be a great in either discipline. However, Bresnan has a long way to go. Kapil as an all rounder was an undoubted great.

I don't know why you think a bowler averaging 29 over 131 matches, after playing half the matches on docile Indian tracks, and 70% of his matches on docile SC tracks is not a great bowler? Kapil dev was a good batsman and very highly talented, but cannot be considered a great batsman as he was not consistent.

Kapil dev's greatness as a bowler is vindicated by his performance against the WI, the best side of his era. Botham had a poor record against the WI, both as bowler and batsman.
 
Problem with kapil paaji is that out of the 4 great all rounders of the 80s, he was the only one that cannot be classified as a great bowler or a great batsman.

Imran and hadlee were without doubt great bowlers. Botham probably squeezes in to the great bowlers category.

Kapil was quite far behind in bowling as hadlee was in batting to the rest. However, hadlee made up for it with the ball where he was a genuine great.

In that sense, i think there are similarities with Bresnan - I.e he will never be a great in either discipline. However, Bresnan has a long way to go. Kapil as an all rounder was an undoubted great.


Naveed,


Dev's performance against the WI pretty much seals how great he was, you boi Imran is only slightly ahead ;)...
 
Kapil was a different beast against West Indies. As a batsman alone his record seems better than many specialist batsmen of his time, as a bowler hiis average of 24 puts him right up there among the biggest WI bashers.
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

I'm not doubting kapil's ability. I have a lot more respect for kapil and sunny as opposed to the more recent alleged "greats" of Indian cricket. They were real fighters. And yes kapil did well against the West Indies. But that cannot be the only yardstick to judge whether he's a great or not.

If that was the case, then ijaz Ahmed will also be a great for his record against the Aussies in the 90s!
 
Most British players don't have 5000 runs in tests,forget about 430+ wickets on dead tracks
 
If that was the case, then ijaz Ahmed will also be a great for his record against the Aussies in the 90s!

Aussies of 90s vs West Indies of 80s? Thats no match really. Australia was THE force from 1999-2006. Let me know how many Pakistani cricketers performed against them during that period.

As for West Indies, your top players against them were Imran, Wasim Bari. Miandad, Abbass were all epic flops. It does matter how you perform against the best team.
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Australia were THE force from 1995.

Performing against a great team surely does matter I agree, but it is not the sole criteria.

I'm trying to be a bit generous to kapil here, so accept it politely. He was a good bowler, great by indian standards for sure but not by world standards. I don't really go that crazy about stats, but even so there's gotta be a minimum criteria for greatness and an ave of 30 and strike rate of 64? I'm sorry, he just cannot be classified as a great bowler. Great all rounder? Yes. Bowler? No
 
I'm not doubting kapil's ability. I have a lot more respect for kapil and sunny as opposed to the more recent alleged "greats" of Indian cricket. They were real fighters. And yes kapil did well against the West Indies. But that cannot be the only yardstick to judge whether he's a great or not.

If that was the case, then ijaz Ahmed will also be a great for his record against the Aussies in the 90s!

But what else did Ijaz do? A mere 37 average player. Kapil was wonderful against WI and also has excellent record in Australia, not to speak of getting 320+ wickets on SC roads. Kapil dev is an under rated bowler on this forum, some how you compare him with Imran and Akram and then decide he is not a great. All contemporaries of Kapil agreed that he was a class bowler and a good batsmen, though he did not fulfill his true potential.
 
Australia were THE force from 1995.

Performing against a great team surely does matter I agree, but it is not the sole criteria.

I'm trying to be a bit generous to kapil here, so accept it politely. He was a good bowler, great by indian standards for sure but not by world standards. I don't really go that crazy about stats, but even so there's gotta be a minimum criteria for greatness and an ave of 30 and strike rate of 64? I'm sorry, he just cannot be classified as a great bowler. Great all rounder? Yes. Bowler? No

Those averages after bowling mostly on flat pitches. Kapil is better than most English, SA or Australian bowlers who average 26-29 because of the difference in the conditions.
 
But what else did Ijaz do? A mere 37 average player. Kapil was wonderful against WI and also has excellent record in Australia, not to speak of getting 320+ wickets on SC roads. Kapil dev is an under rated bowler on this forum, some how you compare him with Imran and Akram and then decide he is not a great. All contemporaries of Kapil agreed that he was a class bowler and a good batsmen, though he did not fulfill his true potential.

Dev's biggest issue was he under achieved so badly against ENG & NZ with the ball, he had all the talent in the world to STEAM roll both of these average sides back in those days considering how well he did against WI & AUS....
 
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Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Dev's biggest issue was he under achieved so badly against ENG & NZ with the ball, he had all the talent in the world to STEAM roll both of these average sides back in those days considering how well he did against WI & AUS....

This is the problem with just looking at things on paper. If you actually watched the matches, both England and New Zealand had some very good players esp against medium pace swing bowlers which was very similar to what they had to face at home.
 
Dev's biggest issue was he under achieved so badly against ENG & NZ with the ball, he had all the talent in the world to STEAM roll both of these average sides back in those days considering how well he did against WI & AUS....

The English were generally good players of the out swinger that Kapil was reputed for. If Kapil had a world class inswinger he would have succeeded every where. Since Kapil did not have express pace this was an important factor. Hard and bouncy pitches usually favour a shorter length, while slower pitches require a fuller length. This adjustment outside the SC has often been harder for SC bowlers to make due to their "Indian memory".

Kapil's special ability was to raise his game against bigger opponents and he some times let down his guard against weaker opponents and some times he got a bit complacent while dominating. But Kapil was a real fighter, he was not the one to give up easily, remember him bowling 30 overs on the trot when he took 9/83 against the WI at Ahmedabad.
 
Kapil's bowling career had two halves. The first 62 Tests till 1983/84 and the other 69 that followed a shoulder operation. He was a great bowler in the first half.

In the second part, apart from a couple of series (WI 1988/9, Australia 1991/2) and occasional spells (like the opening spell in the second innings at Lord's 1986), he was a very average bowler. In his final one or two seasons, we prayed to God that he would break Hadlee's record quickly so that he would retire.
 
I remember a series where Bresnan averaged 20 with the ball and 40 with the bat; I think it was the same series where India received their first of the back-to-back Test whitewashes, lost the number one ranking, and thus began their long descent into inferiority.

How times have changed!
 
Yes. I think Bresnan has a good chance to be the new Kapil Dev. They are both slightly above mediocre all rounders but are overrated massively by their respective fan bases.
 
Yes. I think Bresnan has a good chance to be the new Kapil Dev. They are both slightly above mediocre all rounders but are overrated massively by their respective fan bases.

Playtime's over pal. Time to go into the straitjacket! :afridi
 
Kapil is a great allrounder people underrate him on here I agree he carried India's pace attack for 15 years with little support at the other end

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Eng has been trying to find their next Botham for a long time now even it meant playing many bits and pieces players.
 
Re: Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

Aussies of 90s vs West Indies of 80s? Thats no match really. Australia was THE force from 1999-2006. Let me know how many Pakistani cricketers performed against them during that period.

As for West Indies, your top players against them were Imran, Wasim Bari. Miandad, Abbass were all epic flops. It does matter how you perform against the best team.

Imran averaged 16 with the ball against the WI team that isn't an epic flop

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Imran averaged 16 with the ball against the WI team that isn't an epic flop

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IK averaged 21.xx in test and 28.xx in ODIs against WI with ball. Where did you get 16?

Also, poster was calling IK as a top player against WI. He was tagging Miandad & Abbass as failure against WI.
 
Bresnan: the New Kapil Dev?

IK averaged 21.xx in test and 28.xx in ODIs against WI with ball. Where did you get 16?

Also, poster was calling IK as a top player against WI. He was tagging Miandad & Abbass as failure against WI.


Yeah sorry the filter was on his performances at home


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
IK averaged 21.xx in test and 28.xx in ODIs against WI with ball. Where did you get 16?

Also, poster was calling IK as a top player against WI. He was tagging Miandad & Abbass as failure against WI.

Wasim Raja average 57 against West Indies with 2 centuries and 7 fifties and he also average 57 against them in their home with a century 5 fifties so does it make him a better batsman than miandad or abbas?

Majid Khan and Wasim Raja both scored 500+ runs in a Test series in West Indies but still it doesnt make them a better batsman than miandad or zaheer abbas.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=207;type=series

Btw the OP is a known troll.
 
:6

:4

:6





could have won the game in kapil dev style if he had more deliveries to face :kapil
 
He is in really good form right now in CC.I think he can play for England again in future
 
Problem with kapil paaji is that out of the 4 great all rounders of the 80s, he was the only one that cannot be classified as a great bowler or a great batsman.

Imran and hadlee were without doubt great bowlers. Botham probably squeezes in to the great bowlers category.

Kapil was quite far behind in bowling as hadlee was in batting to the rest. However, hadlee made up for it with the ball where he was a genuine great.

In that sense, i think there are similarities with Bresnan - I.e he will never be a great in either discipline. However, Bresnan has a long way to go. Kapil as an all rounder was an undoubted great.

The problem with Kapil Dev, to be precise, is that in an era of 4 great all-rounders he was the fifth best!

1. Imran Khan
2. Richard Hadlee
3. Clive Rice
4. Ian Botham
5. Kapil Dev

I don't know why people minimise the crapness of Kapil Dev's bowling average of 30 by arguing that it is an Asian thing.

Imran Khan was his contemporary and averaged 20.28 in the subcontinent.

We remember Kapil Dev as a very good all-rounder who was the first decent Indian quick bowler. But in Test cricket he was nothing special as a quick bowler - he was roughly as good as Neil Foster, Graham Dilley, Geoff Lawson, Neal Radford and the reserve West Indian quicks (Clarke, Daniel, Stephenson, Moseley and Baptiste) of his era.
 
The problem with Kapil Dev, to be precise, is that in an era of 4 great all-rounders he was the fifth best!

1. Imran Khan
2. Richard Hadlee
3. Clive Rice
4. Ian Botham
5. Kapil Dev

I don't know why people minimise the crapness of Kapil Dev's bowling average of 30 by arguing that it is an Asian thing.

Imran Khan was his contemporary and averaged 20.28 in the subcontinent.

We remember Kapil Dev as a very good all-rounder who was the first decent Indian quick bowler. But in Test cricket he was nothing special as a quick bowler - he was roughly as good as Neil Foster, Graham Dilley, Geoff Lawson, Neal Radford and the reserve West Indian quicks (Clarke, Daniel, Stephenson, Moseley and Baptiste) of his era.

Look here Mr Pakistani;

Put up Dev's stats vs the WI aka the best side of his era and his stats vs Australia.......... and lets compare these stats with your Imran and Eng's Botham vs the above 2 opponents and I want to see this gulf of difference Imran/Botham has over Dev...
 
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Look here Mr Pakistani;

Put up Dev's stats vs the WI aka the best side of his era and his stats vs Australia.......... and lets compare these stats with your Imran and Eng's Botham vs the above 2 opponents and I want to see this gulf of difference Imran/Botham has over Dev...

Kapil Dev would walk into every Test team today.

He was a very fine cricketer: comparable to Shane Watson with the bat and to Tim Southee with the ball. In other words, he was slightly better than Shane Watson because he was a slightly better bowler than Watson.

My point is just that he wasn't a particularly special bowler - there were at least 10 better fast bowlers than him from the West Indies alone at the time.

And he only got 400 Test wickets because the rest of his quick bowling compatriots were totally useless. He was similar in style and quality as a quick bowler to Shane Watson and Jacques Kallis, who bowled around 15 overs per Test, while poor Kapil Dev had to bowl three times as many because there were no other decent quicks in his team.
 
Kapil Dev would walk into every Test team today.

He was a very fine cricketer: comparable to Shane Watson with the bat and to Tim Southee with the ball. In other words, he was slightly better than Shane Watson because he was a slightly better bowler than Watson.

My point is just that he wasn't a particularly special bowler - there were at least 10 better fast bowlers than him from the West Indies alone at the time.

And he only got 400 Test wickets because the rest of his quick bowling compatriots were totally useless. He was similar in style and quality as a quick bowler to Shane Watson and Jacques Kallis, who bowled around 15 overs per Test, while poor Kapil Dev had to bowl three times as many because there were no other decent quicks in his team.

You are not answering my question...... Re-read my post again........
 
Look here Mr Pakistani;

Put up Dev's stats vs the WI aka the best side of his era and his stats vs Australia.......... and lets compare these stats with your Imran and Eng's Botham vs the above 2 opponents and I want to see this gulf of difference Imran/Botham has over Dev...

How about we don't go for stats, but rather impact?

Pakistan played three seminal Test series against the almighty West Indies at the height of their powers, in 86-87, 87-88 and 1990-91, the latter when Imran Khan was almost 40 and in decline.

All three series were drawn 1-1. And Imran Khan's role in all three was immense.

In 1986-87, Imran came in at 37-5 on the first day of the First Test at Faisalabad and his 61 led Pakistan to 159 all out and ultimately was the difference between defeat and their eventual victory. Eventually Pakistan set the West Indies 240 to win, and Imran took 4-30 as they were all out for 53.

In the Third Test, with the series tied 1-1, Imran came in on the final day at 91-6 with Pakistan set 213 to win and with 2 hours left in the match. Immediately the last recognised batsman Asif Mujtaba was dismissed. With 27 overs left, the all-conquering West Indies attack needed just 3 wickets, but Imran stood firm to score 15 not out from 64 balls while Tauseef Ahmed at the other end scored 7 from 65 balls to draw the match at 125-7. They added a matchsaving 30 runs in 21 overs before the captain's shook hands to draw the match.

Stats don't show that sort of series-defining activity.

The away series in 87-88 was the same: Pakistan drew the series because on the First day of the First Test, after the West Indies took Tea at 220-4, Imran returned to take 7-80 to set up the Pakistani win at Georgetown.

And finally, consider the last drawn series in 1990-91. Again, the stats just don't show why Imran was so much more feared by the likes of Viv Richards than Kapil Dev was.

The series was tied 1-1 again going into the final Test. Pakistan was set an impossible 346 to win and by the end of Day 4 they were already 90-2, thanks to the eternally useless Rameez Raja getting himself out just before the close.

Imran walked to the crease just an hour and a bit into the final day with the team struggling at 110-4 and with the nightwatchman at the other end.

He nursed that nightwatchman through almost to the Tea break and Imran Khan eventually saved the match and the series by batting 292 minutes for 58 not out. He literally batted all day for 58 runs to save the series.

Kapil Dev couldn't and didn't do any of these things. Of course he took lots of wickets against the West Indies - he had to do most of the bowling - but they lost all of their series to the West Indies in that time except for one which was levelled not due to Kapil Dev - although he did hit a first innings ton with the extensive help of the umpires who turned down countless LBW and caught behind appeals in the innings - but to Narendra Hirwani and some of the most comically hometown umpiring in the history of cricket.
 
Look here Mr Pakistani;

Put up Dev's stats vs the WI aka the best side of his era and his stats vs Australia.......... and lets compare these stats with your Imran and Eng's Botham vs the above 2 opponents and I want to see this gulf of difference Imran/Botham has over Dev...

Silly argument. Kapil played against eight or nine other teams and so did the other two. His performances against two of them, albeit two of the top three, doesn't excuse his mediocre performances against the other nations.

I wonder why this sort of argument never comes up when you talk about Sachin. I reckon I could have some fun with this if you do believe that Kapil was as good as Botham, let alone Imran, just because he had similar performances against the Windies.

I agree with Junaids on this, Kapil is slightly overrated, even by me because he is India's first good pace bowler. When you compare him with the Pakistani legends, he looks like a very good player, rather than an ATG.
 
:))):))))

This thread is amazing. Nothing better to see Romali Roti getting worked out..:P
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.

AHemmm, cough cough,, Beeffffyyy Bothamm... :angel:
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.

On that logic you could go for Botham being better than most because of his dominant home & away Ashes performances. But in reality the whole picture has to be taken into account.
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.

By that logic Kamran Akmal is better LOI player than Dhoni as he averaves more against Australia.
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.

In the minds of delusional Indian fans only. For everyone else, Kapil ranks below Imran, Sobers, Kallis and Botham.
 
Lara trumps Tendulker by some distance if we only look at the performance of the two batsmen against Australia, South Africa, Pakistan and England.

:yk2
 
On that logic you could go for Botham being better than most because of his dominant home & away Ashes performances. But in reality the whole picture has to be taken into account.

Not really James, it all comes down to how you did against WI during that era as they were invincible. Against the WI it shows a very sorry sorry tale for Botham. If you cant stack up against the best it don't matter how you do vs the rest, a reason why only a few outside Pakistan really rates Inzi...
 
Kapil's performance vs West Indies and Australia will always put him above other great all rounders who couldn't quite turn it on against the big teams kind of like Kallis, Sangakkara not showing up against major nations in this era.

Excuse me?

Australia was not even a Top Five team in the 8 teams in world cricket in the 1980s. They were well below West Indies, Pakistan and New Zealand and would have been below South Africa. They even lost the Ashes AT HOME in 86-87.

So you're down to the West Indies.

KAPIL DEV
Batting average 30.82
Bowling average 24.89

IMRAN KHAN
Batting average 27.67 - in much lower scoring Tests
Bowling average 21.18

But more importantly

Kapil Dev v West Indies
(excluding 1978/79, when the West Indies real team was in Australia for SuperTests)
Won 1
Drew 9
Lost 10

Imran Khan v West Indies:
Won 4
Drew 6
Lost 6

So it is completely absurd to claim that Kapil Dev somehow stands above Imran Khan for performances in the 20 Tests he played against a full strength West Indies (of which India won 1, lost 10).
 
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Excuse me?

Australia was not even a Top Five team in the 8 teams in world cricket in the 1980s. They were well below West Indies, Pakistan and New Zealand and would have been below South Africa. They even lost the Ashes AT HOME in 86-87.

So you're down to the West Indies.

KAPIL DEV
Batting average 30.82
Bowling average 24.89

IMRAN KHAN
Batting average 27.67 - in much lower scoring Tests
Bowling average 21.18

But more importantly

Kapil Dev v West Indies
(excluding 1978/79, when the West Indies real team was in Australia for SuperTests)
Won 1
Drew 9
Lost 10

Imran Khan v West Indies:
Won 4
Drew 6
Lost 6

So it is completely absurd to claim that Kapil Dev somehow stands above Imran Khan for performances in the 20 Tests he played against a full strength West Indies (of which India won 1, lost 10).

Wow such a gulf of difference between Imran and DEV lol :)))................ Oh whats Dev's and Imran's bowling stats in the WI vs WI ? Imran should easily kill DEV here if my guess is right...
 
I've just realised how bloated and misleading Kapil Dev's batting record against the West Indies was by the 1978-79 series which pitted a full-strength India against a West Indies C team when the Packer players were not selected.

Overall Kapil Dev record v West Indies (including the bogus Tests)
BATTING
25 Tests, 39 innings, 4 not out, 1079 runs, HS 126*, 3 x 100, 4 x 50, Average 30.82

Corrected Kapil Dev record v West Indies (excluding the bogus series)
19 Tests, 32 innings, 2 not out, 750 runs, HS 109, 2 x 100, 2 x 50, Average 25.00

BOWLING
a) Including the bogus 1978-79 series
25 Tests, 773 overs, 2216 runs, 89 wickets at 24.89, 4 x 5wi, 1 x 10wm, BB 9-83

b) Excluding the bogus 1978-79 series
19 Tests, 618 overs, 1655 runs, 72 wickets at 22.99, 4 x 5wi, 1 x 10wm, BB 9-83
 
Wow such a gulf of difference between Imran and DEV lol :)))................ Oh whats Dev's and Imran's bowling stats in the WI vs WI ? Imran should easily kill DEV here if my guess is right...

It's a huge gulf when you take out the 1978-79 series which really should not carry Test status, given that the real West Indies were playing Supertests in Australia at the time.

Imran Khan W4 D6 L6
Kapil Dev W1 D9 L 10

Imran Khan batting average 27.67, bowling average 21.18
Kapil Dev batting average 25.00, bowling average 22.99

It really gives the lie to the bizarre claim that Kapil Dev's "superior" performances against the West Indies made him better than Imran Khan. In fact, the reverse is true.
 
Excuse me?

Australia was not even a Top Five team in the 8 teams in world cricket in the 1980s. They were well below West Indies, Pakistan and New Zealand and would have been below South Africa. They even lost the Ashes AT HOME in 86-87.

So you're down to the West Indies.

KAPIL DEV
Batting average 30.82
Bowling average 24.89

IMRAN KHAN
Batting average 27.67 - in much lower scoring Tests
Bowling average 21.18

But more importantly

Kapil Dev v West Indies
(excluding 1978/79, when the West Indies real team was in Australia for SuperTests)
Won 1
Drew 9
Lost 10

Imran Khan v West Indies:
Won 4
Drew 6
Lost 6

So it is completely absurd to claim that Kapil Dev somehow stands above Imran Khan for performances in the 20 Tests he played against a full strength West Indies (of which India won 1, lost 10).

Very good posts in this thread. You are clearly getting under the skins of some of the immature Kapil fans here. :)
 
It's a huge gulf when you take out the 1978-79 series which really should not carry Test status, given that the real West Indies were playing Supertests in Australia at the time.

Imran Khan W4 D6 L6
Kapil Dev W1 D9 L 10

Imran Khan batting average 27.67, bowling average 21.18
Kapil Dev batting average 25.00, bowling average 22.99

It really gives the lie to the bizarre claim that Kapil Dev's "superior" performances against the West Indies made him better than Imran Khan. In fact, the reverse is true.

I never said DEV was a better player than Imran, but just bringing you down to reality when you bring in players like Botham to compare with DEV, OH please (If you cant put out against the best, you are no good in my opinion no matter what you did against the rest).... Now Imran is only slightly better than DEV vs the WI individual performance wise ............. Remember and read this; We are comparing 'individual performance' against the best side of Dev's and Imran's ERA, 'INDIVIDUAL'
 
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Excuse me?

Australia was not even a Top Five team in the 8 teams in world cricket in the 1980s. They were well below West Indies, Pakistan and New Zealand and would have been below South Africa. They even lost the Ashes AT HOME in 86-87.

So you're down to the West Indies.

KAPIL DEV
Batting average 30.82
Bowling average 24.89

IMRAN KHAN
Batting average 27.67 - in much lower scoring Tests
Bowling average 21.18

But more importantly

Kapil Dev v West Indies
(excluding 1978/79, when the West Indies real team was in Australia for SuperTests)
Won 1
Drew 9
Lost 10

Imran Khan v West Indies:
Won 4
Drew 6
Lost 6

So it is completely absurd to claim that Kapil Dev somehow stands above Imran Khan for performances in the 20 Tests he played against a full strength West Indies (of which India won 1, lost 10).

Are you using team metrics to compare individual performances? Really? Imran had better support bowlers for him compared to Kapil who was pretty much a lone wolf.
 
I never said DEV was a better player than Imran, but just bringing you down to reality when you bring in players like Botham to compare with DEV, OH please (If you cant put out against the best, you are no good in my opinion no matter what you did against the rest).... Now Imran is only slightly better than DEV vs the WI individual performance wise ............. Remember and read this; We are comparing 'individual performance' against the best side of Dev's and Imran's ERA, 'INDIVIDUAL'

But even that is not accurate, is it?

I have shown you two Tests v the West Indies that Imran Khan won for his team against the West Indies and two more that he saved by batting with the tail.

Kapil Dev could not do that. His team lost again and again and again to the West Indies because he could not save the match batting with the tail or bowl out the opposition cheaply.

And the series which totally bloats his record against the West Indies was against ALVIN Greenidge (not Gordon) and DAVID Murray (not Deryck)!

And by the way, Ian Botham was a far better all-round cricketer than Kapil Dev was, and his record only deteriorated late in his career when he carried on as a medium-pacer after he had lost his zip with the ball.

Let me refer you to the one-off Jubilee Test in Bombay in 1979-80 to illustrate that.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63262.html

KAPIL DEV
0 (1) and 45* (82)
29-8-64-3
8-2-21-0

IAN BOTHAM
114 (144)
22.5-7-58-6
26-7-48-7

So on the same pitch, in the same match:
Kapil Dev scored 45 runs in 2 innings
Ian Botham scored 114 runs in 1 innings.

Kapil Dev took 3-85 in 37 overs.
Ian Botham took 13-106 in 48 overs.

The suggestion that Kapil Dev was somehow better than Ian Botham is just bizarre. Put them head-to-head and Botham just murdered Kapil Dev.
 
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