sweep_shot
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I didn't call you an "extremist evil". You have a problem with Muslims.
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[VIDEOS] Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?
- Thread starter The Bald Eagle
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I didn't call you an "extremist evil". You have a problem with Muslims.
sweep_shot
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Your question has been answered. If you don't get it or are not satisfied, I can't help you.
cricketjoshila
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Once some one on PP told me, Hindus are not the people of the book, Hindus are idol worshippers hence hard to respect them from a Muslim point of view.
sweep_shot
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If you behave in a hostile manner, you are unlikely to get respect from all people. It doesn't matter whether you are a Hindu or a Muslim. Respect generally has nothing to do with religion.
You also called all Hindutvas as evil force and I am a Hindutva supporter. Go ahead tell me why with facts. As it it stands you are the one running away from answering my questions and considering that ypu are labeling me bigot and all hindutvas as evil force it is very Clear that you are supporting the Muslims who killed the cow
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sweep_shot
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I believe it was said by someone else and not by me. I agree with the person though that BJP/RSS is evil.
I am not running away. I sometimes have to take breaks. Anyway, I believe I have answered all of your questions.
sweep_shot
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I believe BJP/RSS is evil because they have a rhetoric similar to Nazi Germany had in 1930's. BJP/RSS promotes a toxic and twisted version of Hindutva. Those who support it are also toxic and twisted.
I hope I have answered your question. There is nothing further to answer.
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Itachi
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If you use a debit card, it means you're earning interest annually to say the least.
sweep_shot
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Nope. You are confusing savings account with a chequing account.
Chequing has no interest. That's the debit card.
I don't know if it is different in India.
Itachi
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I know Muslims who drink alcohol, eats pork.
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CricketCartoons
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This is hardly a revelation. Hindus don't belong to the civilized world from the muslim point of view. Hindus should not be offended by this. Others, least of all muslims, don't owe respect to hindus.
No you did not answer the question at all despite me asking that about half a dozen times and in multiple ways.. And now that you are bolting from this discussion it is very obvious that you are no different than the bigots that do not think twice when deliberately harming a cow knowing very well that it is very sacred to Hindus. You are a textbook example of intolerance except in your mind you are Convinced( more like brainwashed) beyond any doubt whatsoever that your stance is legit but at the same time you know deep down that you have been brutally exposed.
And yeah unlike you I will not run away from answering questions about BJP/RSS/Hindutva etc .... and I will guarantee you that you will get bent out of shape beyond Recognition as the facts are squarely in My corner on these topics. Go ahead I dare you.
Respect tou dooor ki baat ... more like scorn, contempt and condescension. I have experienced this first hand in real life from very well educated Muslims.
CricketCartoons
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That is also fine, as long as there is no physical harm. If you are called evil, bigot etc etc for what you think is right, you should continue what you are doing.
Muslims have faced far greater problem, got called many things, haters and bigots and what not. But that didn't stop them from continuing on their civilizational goals. You think Pakistan would have formed if Qaid-e-Azam had worried about what hindus think of him? Then why hindus worry about what muslims think of them? Wear the insults as badges of pride and keep marching on.
@The Bald Eagle
I hope you got your answers that you posed in the OP in real time courtesy real Muslims who are longtime posters on PP. Most importantly these are very well educated Muslims living in western countries. Now imagine how dire the situation must be in India where the avg Muslim is not very well educated.
I hope you got your answers that you posed in the OP in real time courtesy real Muslims who are longtime posters on PP. Most importantly these are very well educated Muslims living in western countries. Now imagine how dire the situation must be in India where the avg Muslim is not very well educated.
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This thread is really not about cows and beef etc...We have a separate the for this chat. Please go there if you cannot stop talking about that stuff here.
Absolutely bang on as always! it took a while for me to realize what the problem really was from a Hindu perspective and it can succinctly be explained as tyranny of reason wherein the constraints of our own much more evolved and rational thought process can be very detrimental to our own survival !! Mother of all paradoxes if you will !!
DeadlyVenom
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I don't think evolved or rational thought process comes into it.
I think deep down vast majority of Hindus are uncomfortable with their religion because it is completely alien to the outside world.
The average Muslim has more respect for their religion than 98% of Hindus do for theirs.
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Hinduism is a pagan religion and fit right in among the old pagan religions 2000 years ago. Christians were the weird ones then - a strange cult who kept insisting on a single god.
As scientific thinking increased and explanations started emerging for all the natural phenomena the pagans revered, folks started flocking to book and clear rule based religions. Obviously Hindus know a lot of their religion has massive contradictions and are uncomfortable engaging in debates about it. They prefer more philosophical discussions.
Of course science now exposes contradictions in the old book based religions which is why folks are moving to more vaguely spirituality type - 'there's a higher power and I don't have to prove it...i just know it' faiths.
I can assure you that it is not the case. This is because we do not resort to obscene promotion of our religion by means of proselytization or worse forceful conversion. There is literally ZERO historical evidence that any medieval Hindu rulers forced their religion on others. Not even the Marathas or Rajputs.
BTW I owe a extremely deep and sincere gratitude to the Maratha and Rajput warriors for protecting my ancestors and our religion. I will go out of my way to help a Maratha at any cost!! Ditto for the Rajputs. I have very deep, sincere and unconditional respect for their valor and what did to protect Hinduism. No ifs ands and buts.
DeadlyVenom
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You don't define it as forced conversion because it's sectarian based violence and you consider all of the sects Hindu.
It's a nice loophole.
Anyway my point wasn't meant to be an insult but a statement of fact. Hindus have been colonised by Abrahamic religions twice and it is bound to leave some insecurities. You can deny it if you wish but it's fact. The dominant global culture is also completely different to Hindu belief.
That's why many Hindus will shy away from commenting on caste,carma and cow for example and instead hide behind other discussions until their religion sounds like an airy fairy free for all. Most of the world doesn't think of caste cow or carma they think of yoga pants and red dotted belly dancers or shamans when they think of Hindus. Most Hindus have historically been happy with this image and happier that people don't dig deeper.
You may not be uncomfortable, but I think a factor of being uncomfortable is more likely than what you were saying about why Hindus worry about what Muslims and others think of them.
It will take time to fully develop this pride and confidence.
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Have you studied this issue deeply of muslim forced conversions in the Mughal era ? Fill us in on what you've learnt; how big a chunk of India's population converted due to force ?
I stopped right here at the 1st sentence... what is the casualty figure that you attribute to the sectarianism within Hinduism ? Give me a rough estimate.
DeadlyVenom
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Why does the casualties matter?
DeadlyVenom
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Marauding Hindu kings rampaging killing and looting in other territories and kingdoms.
No real "study" is required beyond basic Indian high school. Just google what happened to Afghanistan which was once upon a time a completely Buddhist/Hindu region. and please spare me the usual drivel that this was the "Norm" back in those days.
Not based on sectarianism and most certainly not forcing their religion on those who they conquered.
DeadlyVenom
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Yes a convenient loophole.
otherwise known as a cold hard act. But perhaps very inconvenient i suppose ?
DeadlyVenom
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No not really.
You set up two parallel systems of judgement based on your own loyalties and biases.
RexRex
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At the most, history textbooks in Indian schools might mention that a couple of temples were destroyed during Mughal times. That is not the same as mass forced conversions. I am asking you for evidence of the latter. Are there no scholarly studies or articles on this issue ?
I repeat again .. the entire region what we call as Afghanistan today was Buddhist. Let me know if you need evidence.
please prove with facts whatever you are accusing me of.
A huge part of India was Buddhist at one time. Guess which religion wiped them out from India?
Not by force. And neither did Buddhism. when it came to prominence. This is the beauty of indic religions.
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Let us focus on the land that is modern day India. You and I are Indians, so that's what counts. I just want to know how so many people in Bharat converted from Hinduism to Islam early on, to the extent that we have 200 million muslims in India today.
Itachi
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I would say average Muslims are better "institutionalized" than average hindus which is why, even in th is thread, even after living in west, many Muslim ppers fail to grasp the concept when it falls outside their thought of flow.
They have taught to think in one specific ways and if it doesn't fall under that thought process, then "system error" appears and people goes in to defensive mode.
Hindus are better equipped because they face different variations in different strata of society. So it's actually quite contrary to what you said in reality.
Muslims form a comfort zone and they socialised inside that zone. Rest of the religion, since numbers are smaller, they'll have to socialise with others whether they like it or not.
Lol. Read about what sashanka did to Bengal's Buddhists. I guess Ajatasatru was also treated Buddhists peacefully. Forget about Buddhism. The followers of Ramanujan and Shankaracharya used to fight over different interpretations of Vedanta.Not by force. And neither did Buddhism. when it came to prominence. This is the beauty of indic religions.
Bewal Express
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The hatred is real. This is the result of years of grooming by RSS and others
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Indeed. That there were instances of forced conversion is not to be denied. But it is dubious indeed to argue that the vast mass that converted did so under the force of the Islamic sword. We should remember that the regions on the fringes of political power during Muslim rule witnessed the greatest numbers converting to Islam and not the upper Gangetic Plain, where political and military force was at its most potent.
We, also, need to question exactly what conversion to Islam in South Asia means. In the words of anthropologist Clifford Geertz, writing in the Indonesian context, "Islamic conversion is not as a rule, sudden, total, overwhelming illumination but a slow turning to toward a new light." As Rafiuddin Ahmed has shown, it was as late as the nineteenth century in Bengal that many Muslims ceased to invoke the name of God as ‘Sri Sri Iswar’ and adopted Muslim surnames. On the other side of the Subcontinent, Richard Eaton has indicated that in Pakpattan, “it was as early as the fifteenth century, [that] Muslim names began to appear among Jat tribes associated with Baba Farid’s shrine, but they did not become dominant among those tribes until the early eighteenth, indicating a very slow and apparently unconscious process of Islamization.”
Richard Eaton is preeminent among historians who have studied the matter of conversion to Islam in South Asia. A historian known for immersing himself in archives, he has studied the growth of Muslim communities in the Deccan and the Punjab, but is most well known for his study on the ‘rise of Islam’ in Bengal. It was, as he reminds us, a region that became home to the second largest Muslim ethnic group after the Arabs. In the Sultanate period, pockets of Muslim communities sprung up but it was only during the Mughal period that mass Islamisation transpired.
In explaining conversion, Eaton highlights the following. Those that converted in eastern Bengal were people that had little exposure to Hinduism. As the course Bengal’s rivers moves eastwards the area witnessed a transition to settled agriculture, specifically wet rice cultivation. The Mughals gave land grants to many Muslim religious leaders who were tasked to clear forests and to make the land arable. These religious entrepreneurs be they mullahs, pilgrims that had returned from Mecca, preachers or pirs, were also responsible for establishing religious institutions that came to dot the Bengali landscape- mosques, shrines and Qur’an schools. Around these religious institutions and guided by charismatic holy men, a people that had formally been engaged in shifting cultivation or fisherman became absorbed into an Islamic cosmos.
Therefore the rise of Islam in Bengal owed much to the conjunction of environmental, economic and political factors, as the expanding agrarian frontier coincided with expanding Muslim political frontier.
We should note that the process of Islamisation certainly accelerated in the modern period. Although movements seeking to purify religious practices had existed for many years in Bengal, it was especially prominent from the eighteenth century onwards. The challenge of colonial rule, Islamic reform movements such as the Fara’izi and the Tariqah-i Muhmmadiyah, the growing numbers undertaking pilgrimage and the dispersal of paper and paper-making technologies, all facilitated “displacement” of local deities and their replacement by Islamic agencies.
Islam therefore, in the region of Bengal, became the religion of the axe and plough.
The memory of the tracts of jungles being cleared by their ancestors created a deep connection to land amongst Bengali peasants and shaped Muslim Bengali cultural discourse.
To also quote from another historian - Azfar Moin:
"The most significant point is that in the formative era of the Balkans-to-Bengal complex, people adopted Islam and made it meaningful on terms that were rarely dictated from above. In other words, from the Balkans to Bengal, Muslims became Muslims, and non-Muslims experienced Islam, not primarily by conversion but by translation. The primary religious processes at work were those of cultural embedding; that is to say, a gradual acculturation took place in which Islam did not appear to those adopting and embodying it as an entirely new way of life that replaced their previous worldviews and customs. To accommodate other sacred traditions with Islam, there evolved in this era modes that were more varied, more flexible, and even more authoritative than the Quranic category of the “people of the book,” which had been in use in the early phase of Islam’s his tory to deal with religious diference. For instance, earlier in the eighth century, when Muhammad b. alQasim invaded Sind at the height of the Umayyad caliphate, he reportedly decided to treat followers of Indic religious traditions as if they were “people of the book”—a legal fiction. Later, in the thirteenth century, when the Mongols invaded Anatolia, the Sufi master Rumi reportedly convinced Muslim townsfolk of his region to cooperate with the “pagan” army’s commander by arguing that the latter was in reality a saint but did not know it him self—a saintly fact. A miracle-working saint, everyone knew, was above the law.
The presence of the Hindus and Mongols in the examples above is not incidental. Rather, it underscores the fact that the Balkan-to-Bengal complex contained large and powerful polities where biblical monotheism had little purchase and where the notion of “true” religion or “conversion” made little sense. Here, Islam had to adapt and evolve or face irrelevance."
Bewal Express
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I have taught many Hindus over the years and I find them to hard working and ambitious but I also find Most Hindus ditch their religion because it has no value to them in the West. We on the other hand, wear it with pride( definitely in my case), despite all our issues in the West.
Dread to think of what extremist Muslims will do to India(then again we know from the terrorist attacks) if this thread goes onto show the thought process of moderate muslims.
One says, I don't even agree with hindusim because Islam says monotheist. So what do you plan to do with the rest of people who are from other religions?
Another says 98% Muslims have more respect for their religion than Hindus. I am sure these guys only know buzz words like caste, cow, yoga in Hinduism and nothing more. So where does this judgement come from without knowing hindusim fundamentals?
One says, I don't even agree with hindusim because Islam says monotheist. So what do you plan to do with the rest of people who are from other religions?
Another says 98% Muslims have more respect for their religion than Hindus. I am sure these guys only know buzz words like caste, cow, yoga in Hinduism and nothing more. So where does this judgement come from without knowing hindusim fundamentals?
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What do you expect? From your view, Muslims should also impose halal and triple talaq in the West too? Idea is don't go to another land if you can't respect the norms, laws and values of that land. If it is in conflict with your religious views and you strongly feel about it don't even go there.
I feel it is because Muslims do not have seem to have a land connection, Pakistan is created based on Islam and they don't have much connection with the land. So, no matter the place, if it's one Muslim or 100 Muslims they want to bring that islamic way into every walk of that new land even the area has millions of other religion populace. You think of it as pride, we think of it as rigid zealotry!
This is a incoherent post that I Cannot decipher. Please repost and tag me .
very simple : Brute force.
Well put. It's my way or high way for 99.99% Muslims . No matter the place, time, numbers. I think it suits them as we can see the state of a country created purely on the basis of a religion. Why are they even bothered about India and Hindus. We differ and that's why we separated, right? If their religion is superior, good for them. We don't want such zealotry in hindusim, infact it is a perfect antithesis to such rigidness. Today's India and Pakistan almost started on the same note with diverse views in 1947 and infact Pak had much better relations with bigbois and we can see how they compare now. How each country's religion helped in boosting their living qualities.
Hopefully their religion atleast helps them in getting fresh loans from Arabs.
Bewal Express
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Why would we impose halal on others? No one cares for triple talaq here( as a policy) as the secular guys don't even in believe in marriage.
This is my land, I was brought up here and I am proud to integrated into my community. We don't certificates from guys that are begging visas to come and wipe the backsides of our elderly people.
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Bewal Express
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You don't want the zealot but you guys voted for a guy that claimed to be some sort of god.
CricketCartoons
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This is true. Hindus easily become uneasy and guilty about their religion. Just tell them hey did your ancestors practice this and that? Or did some hindu king killed so many people? And they become guilty about themselves and would like to disassociate themselves to come clean.
Muslims could never by trapped in guilt. No matter how you would like to trap them, they will instead make you feel guilty for being the victim. They will quote eloquent passages from pro muslim historians to show such things never happened, even if it is accepted directly in the autobiographies of those rulers.
Islam is the alpha male among religions. The only thing it is guilty of is its own success.
Bewal Express
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After a long winded answer you can't explain why Hindus don't care much for Hindusim. How is that our problem. Shouldn't you get your own house in order
Ok, then what is your problem with your students? You think they integrated well with the west society or not?
If they integrated well - should be no problem to you as you also said you integrated well.
If they didn't fully - fine, you also don't eat pork just because westerners eat it. There is something called negotiables in life. Each person can have different views on it. Just because he is from another religion, you can't say it is wrong. Hope you got the point.
CricketCartoons
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It is none of muslims problem.
I have been fighting islamophobia myself, telling hindus that the blame lies with them, and not the muslims. It is the hindus who need to change, not muslims.
Bewal Express
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I am a great believer of each to their own. Let each community live in dignity and solving problems through understanding.
We voted for someone who is undoing the decades of damage done by an establishment which appeased Muslims for the sake of votes.You don't want the zealot but you guys voted for a guy that claimed to be some sort of god.
He is in power just for that and no corruption image.
Bewal Express
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None at all. I am not sure why you think I had a problem with them. Your confusing my statement with what I observed to it being a problem. It isn't our problem that generally Hindus don't want much to do with Hinduism, whereas we are( generally) still happy to been seen and heard as Muslims.
.
Bewal Express
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Really? no corruption. He had to be put down by his own as mere political words. And also Not according to some posters on here.
Weiterleitungshinweis
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Great, as you said we have our own and different ways. Hindus don't need validation about what Muslims think about them, so I would leave it there.
Bewal Express
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No they don't. But by the same token, why are you guys commenting on Muslims in the UK and Europe. Just because you don't respect your religion, doesn't mean others shouldn't.
cricketjoshila
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Buddhism came long after Hindus.
Buddhism spread because Mauryans gave it patronage. Without patronage the religion started to lose followers, esp when hardly one dynasty since Mauryans gave any significant patronage to Buddhism.
There was no wiping out. There were no massacres. People returned to their original religion.
cricketjoshila
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Why are pakistanis concerned about cow protection laws in India?
Why are Muslims here concerned about how many Hindus respect and worship cows?
cricketjoshila
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Hindus don't need to wear their religion. That's the very basic difference between you and a Hindu.
cricketjoshila
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You don't want the zealot but you guys voted for a guy that claimed to be some sort of god.
Your interpretation of anything means nothing to Hindus.
DeadlyVenom
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I said this 98percent thing perhaps it can be toned down to majority rather than an exact figure.
Our friends argue that Hindus look to seek appeasement from Muslims because you are more evolved. I gave a counter argument. Nothing wrong with what I said. We are bombarded by content from you guys regarding sickulars, liberals and anti nationals. Yet when we recognise those elements from within your community as a result of your posts highlighting them to us...then we become extremist.
Any Muslim opinion is extreme to you it seems.
You will always find a way to blame Muslims instead of attaining some ghairat and backing what you believe.
cricketjoshila
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Shasanka was a minor King in history of Hindu Kings.
The only description of his so called suppression of Buddhists comes from a 12th century text, 500 years after his death. No primary source.
cricketjoshila
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DeadlyVenom
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97% of worlds Hindus live in India and Nepal.
What variations in society and stratas are they facing?
cricketjoshila
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Why do Hindus need to do anything that you think needs to be done?
sweep_shot
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Yes. Hard to discuss these topics with them. They seem brainwashed from years of RSS indoctrinations.
DeadlyVenom
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They don't need to do anything.
They can go and jump into the sea if it makes them happy. What can I do?
We are just having a conversation and exchanging views. You don't need to act upon it or consider it binding.
Instead you seem to want one way propaganda about Hindus being enlighten and evolved and no right of reply.
cricketjoshila
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Muslims are in conflict with every major religion in the world. Tells you the thought process of many Muslims.
The world is facing terror attacks from New York to Tokyo and London to Melbourne from Muslims.
And here you are telling Hindus what to do.
Because you just commented on Hindus way of living again - you are not an authority on how Hindus should respect their religion. It is what makes Hindus Hindus and not Muslims and viceversa. why can't you walk the talk IE., Each community Living respectfully with dignity? All through the thread there were snarky comments about Hindus beliefs and you don't expect a counter?
DeadlyVenom
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And what does that prove?
Hindus are in conflict with Buddhist, Muslims and Christians in their own country.
97% of world Hindu population is India. If we use your sick logic the rapes, religious persecution, murders in this country tells us everything we need to know about the thought process of Hindus
In fact it may tell us more as there is less variables to consider.
Bewal Express
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So guys are ok to comment on how we should live but we can't comment on how you guys don't care for your religion. And since when are you guys experts on Muslims in Europe, all you do is to repeat EDL and right wing propaganda.
We didn't comment anything about Muslims way of life until you started saying Hindus don't respect their religion, they don't have jazba etc.
Go through this thread chronology and Hindus have been trying to say why cow slaughter is a sensitive issue for Hindus. Instead of acknowledging it is something that matters for Muslims in India, you commented on Hindus in west and Europe. So I paid in the same coin.
Bewal Express
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This is what quick search found. Modi is just better at hiding it
Is Narendra Modi corrupt?
Originally Answered: Is Narendra Modi a corrupt PM (Prime Minister) ?
Modi mastered the art of corruption taking that into different level right at contract signing level rather than kickbacks, etc practiced by Congress. Obviously most of the answers were provided with the idea of ‘Corruption’ is getting direct bribe of money and that is very narrow definition but most apt way to describe ‘Corruption’ is to include each and every way direct or indirect of cheating or looting public money or misusing any position or power to one’s or his clan’s interest.
So keeping this in mind, Modi is corrupt to the core right from his CM days and enjoying the luxury like a royal ignoring even the basic support to his family (which every human is expected to do).
Moreover he had done quite a few which are not palatable or just came to light for everyone to see:
- Modi survived in Gujarat and lived a royal life (3 terms) by controlling the masses with fear psychosis (Gujarat riots) and with the support of Corporate (Adani, Nitin, Ambani, Jatin, even NiMo/Chokshi and so on) with his so called pakora model which is exposed with fraud, cheating of banks (why there are more businessmen who are cheats when NPA is taken seriously by RBI?
- Modi’s aggressive campaign is very well known but how BJP managed funding 340 helicopter trips (daily return to Ahmedabad) during 2014 election rallies (is it not corruption in kind?)
- Geo exploration Inc Rs20K Crs contract and later taken over by ONGC are still hanging for an answer and will come out only when BJP is routed in Gujarat but will happen definitely one day (If karma has its effect?)
- Currently the crony capitalism during Rafale Deal will come out at the right time as BJP govt is shielding itself under the clout of secrecy (Even SC is seized of this issue) and lies after lies by all ministers will face the reality when truth is out and disclosures from ‘The Hindu’ hands down proves that for a common man
- The famous CBI fiasco where, to cover his blue eyed Asthana (spl director) he had to use CVC to send Alok Verma on leave and transfer 14 officers (again SC is seized of this case) and his governance is conspicuous by absence at the right time
- Feud with RBI, of course meddling with every other central democratic institutions is the worst form authoritarian just because economy (funding to MSME, etc) is not upto the mark after his autocratic DeMo decision which failed the growth for three years and unemployment and even death
- misusing position to arm twist all the central institutions including judiciary, blatant lying to win an election, showing dual face (one face of rhetoric another of stoic silence to face any issue) and so on
- There are several reports about Demonitization fiasco resulting in death of normal citizen while BJP allowed its Kolkatta Branch to deposit Rs.15.86 crs and Nirav Modi to escape after looting PNB and further converting black to white with the blessing of Arun Jaitley (FM) - DeMo has many QnA in Quora !!!
- Nexus between BJP and Businessmen are growing without any bounds viz Adani group funding through overseas shell companies by syphoning off more than Rs.20000 crs via Coal import (Singapore) and other insider trading (involving Vinod Adani) as exposed by Hidenburg reports;
- Electoral Bonds (EB) turned out to be real scam and BJP did it smartly either by arm-twisting companies using ED, CBI or IT (49 companies gave EBs worth Rs.1649 crs after raids) or quid pro quo as several companies got Infra contracts after EBs encashed by BJP (BJP got Rs8260 crs in last 4 years illegally). Must include PM cares where all un-encashed bonds are credited after 15 days without any transparency in whole EBs scam (This EB scam requires separate answer as there are entire corporate involved in funding discreetly BJP and rightly SC called it unconstitutional and ECI has the power to seize all the moneys but that will never happen unless regime change happens)
- Of course, typical over pricing for Dwarka highways project (upto Rs.250 crs per KM) as questioned by CAG resulting in Rs.7.5 lac crs excess spending is to be added to Modi & co money collection racket
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DeadlyVenom
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Why do you think that Hindus search for appeasement from Muslims at stated by uppercut and cricket cartoons?
Bewal Express
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Yes you do. You guys blamed a " riot" by Romanian gypsies on the Muslims when you knew it was lie. You talked about triple talaq and halal being forced on people without any evidence because you read on some right wing websites. You may not care for Hinduism because apparently it gets in the way of progress and that is fine but you are not like us, we generally care
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