Virat Kohli - The Mega Discussion

Gavaskar didn't average 9 runs more than Viv so no..

I recon in current Aus roads, gun batsmen can score substantially higher than other places if they have learned cricket there and play a lot on same roads. Smith home avg is 75. Not taking anything away from him, but comparing his average to Viv or Gavaskar is misleading.

Smith is a great batsman, but I won't read too much onto his career average when making a comparison.
 
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I recon in current Aus roads, gun batsmen can score substantially higher than other places if they have learned cricket there and play a lot on same roads. Smith home avg is 75. Not taking anything away from him, but comparing his average to Viv or Gavaskar is misleading.

Smith is a great batsman, but I won't read too much onto his career average when making a comparison.

Doesn't matter. His away average is also higher than Kohli's.

No matter which way you slice it, Smith is day light ahead in tests.
 
smith's 1st innings avg is 92.00 with 16 centuries, in tests. Once he gets in, he just goes on and on. Next year vs India should be the real decider if all Indian bowlers are fit and in form. As for Kohli, Eng, WI are substandard for his stature just 35 or so. And he has to score more runs vs Australia to try and make a claim vs smith whose avg vs India is 84
 
Smith's average away + neutral venue = 57

Kohli away average = 46

Difference 11 runs :broad
 
smith's 1st innings avg is 92.00 with 16 centuries, in tests. Once he gets in, he just goes on and on. Next year vs India should be the real decider if all Indian bowlers are fit and in form. As for Kohli, Eng, WI are substandard for his stature just 35 or so. And he has to score more runs vs Australia to try and make a claim vs smith whose avg vs India is 84

Smith is a bit like Dhoni when it comes to surviving. He has a way not to lose his wicket and pile up runs. His hand eye coordination is helping him now. But if he even slightly loses it he will go Sehwag's way. Both Kohli and Smith try to play everything through on side. But Kohli just move his top part of the body which often lands him in trouble when he misses the line. Smith shifts his entire body outside the line of the off stump in a clumsy but effective way. This way he doesn't get leg before. Kohli's game has certain amount of risk involved even though he plays everything on the ground. Smith has a fool proof technique at this point to survive. Survival part is where Kohli is behind. When both are at their peak, Kohli will be in a different zone.
 
Smith is a bit like Dhoni when it comes to surviving. He has a way not to lose his wicket and pile up runs. His hand eye coordination is helping him now. But if he even slightly loses it he will go Sehwag's way. Both Kohli and Smith try to play everything through on side. But Kohli just move his top part of the body which often lands him in trouble when he misses the line. Smith shifts his entire body outside the line of the off stump in a clumsy but effective way. This way he doesn't get leg before. Kohli's game has certain amount of risk involved even though he plays everything on the ground. Smith has a fool proof technique at this point to survive. Survival part is where Kohli is behind. When both are at their peak, Kohli will be in a different zone.

Agree with the hand-eye coordination part of Smith. And whatever his technique is, it made him world's best right now. One thing I have noticed is bowlers get irritated by his stance and try to make him LBW and he is so strong on anything on his legs that he piles up runs at will. And most bowlers don't have bounce or pace like Morkel or Bumra. I would not say body line but concentrating on the bouncer in the shoulder/neck area will be interesting to test him. That will irritate him on the other hand. Anyway, all said and done, most bowlers get easily distracted with smith's scoring that they lose their line and length.
 
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Yeah none of technical players rely on hand-eye. Tendulkar could play with his eyes closed.

That’s the reason why he was successful in his last two years averaging 20..
 
Yeah none of technical players rely on hand-eye. Tendulkar could play with his eyes closed.

That’s the reason why he was successful in his last two years averaging 20..

False equivalence. Hand-eye coordination can desert you much earlier than retirement age.
 
like I said before. The entire marketing team is behind kohli. No one really cares about smith but fans like to watch kohli bat. He outs butts on seats hence he is required to play all these rubbish games in t20 and odi as well which cause fatigue over the long term. He has to be so diverse. Had he focused more on tests like smith does, I have no doubts that he would get the better of him in the longer format too.
 
Agree with the hand-eye coordination part of Smith. And whatever his technique is, it made him world's best right now. One thing I have noticed is bowlers get irritated by his stance and try to make him LBW and he is so strong on anything on his legs that he piles up runs at will. And most bowlers don't have bounce or pace like Morkel or Bumra. I would not say body line but concentrating on the bouncer in the shoulder/neck area will be interesting to test him. That will irritate him on the other hand. Anyway, all said and done, most bowlers get easily distracted with smith's scoring that they lose their line and length.

I think he is bound to get hit badly by bumrah or shami in the next series. People think aussie bowlers are kings of bouncers lol. Current indian crop out bowled and inflicted far more pain onto the opposition than they have in the previous series between india and australia.

Vicious bouncers. I have a good feeling that's the plan.
 
Doesn't matter. His away average is also higher than Kohli's.

I rate him higher than Kohli in test, that's not the point I was raising. I was saying that career average is not a good bechmark for current Aus batsmen due to roads being served there.

Away average is a far better benchmark and Smith is gun in away conditions as well.
 
Yeah Smith has it so easy. His team is filled with other star batsmen and he really doesn’t have to do anything. He doesn’t have to ever play with the tail and toll hard all the way till the end to make runs.

And we aren’t even gonna talk about the pressure he was facing after being banned for a year and being humiliated at the airport and then coming back averaging 100 in Ashes. This pressure of redemption would have destroyed vast majority of cricketers but we aren’t gonna talk about it since everything is so cush and comfy for Smith no matter what the logic says.
 
Smith tore this lethal Indian attack to shreds last time he was here expected to completely fail.
 
Smith tore this lethal Indian attack to shreds last time he was here expected to completely fail.
he dint? he faced a pre prime ishant who is not current ishant.

he never faced the best bowler in the world aka bumrah

he never faced injury free shami 2.0.
the shami he faced struggled with injury woes and isn't anywhere close to the current shami we see.

Anyway we will get our answers soon and I have no doubt someone will take his head clean off this time.
 
Possibly, but the sandpaper gate will always remain an asterisk on his profile as a cricketer.

Everyone who knows about cricket would know that every team does it. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last.
 
Please elaborate. Or is this all format combined SC nonsense?

Not combined, just ODIs. You didn't specify a format.

Whenever you want to ridicule South Asian fans and their love for LOIs, take a look at how many attended Aus vs Pak at the Gabba.

Every team does it. Tendulkar did it too but he didn’t have a gall to admit it after getting caught on camera.

Every team does it with fingernails and candy. Not bottle caps or sandpaper.
 
Everyone who knows about cricket would know that every team does it. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last.

There is no proof that teams still do it. But even if they do, no one is doing it so blatantly as the trio did.
The Aussie bowlers performance against the Indians last winter did speak volumes of their ability without a sandpapered ball.
 
Not combined, just ODIs. You didn't specify a format.

Whenever you want to ridicule South Asian fans and their love for LOIs, take a look at how many attended Aus vs Pak at the Gabba.



Every team does it with fingernails and candy. Not bottle caps or sandpaper.

No one cares about odi/ t20 outside of SC when rating a player.

And it’s irrelevant which method you use. The act itself is illegal so either you do it or you don’t do it.

It’s like saying you stab someone but didn’t kill them so you are innocent. Doesn’t work that way.
 
Everyone who knows about cricket would know that every team does it. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last.

no Indian player in the current era did it so no excuse. Tendulkar never used sandpaper either.
He is a cheater and he always will be one. What about the drs fiasco vs india?

did any indian player get caught?? no. if they dint then its just pure conjecture. Smith and his buddies got caught. Australia has always been a bunch of cheating picks anyway. Tbf I would never want to see smith banned because he is such a good player. Fine him instead. A large fine will do. We csnt afford to lose smith.
 
There is no proof that teams still do it. But even if they do, no one is doing it so blatantly as the trio did.
The Aussie bowlers performance against the Indians last winter did speak volumes of their ability without a sandpapered ball.

More people are getting caught due to improved camera. Far also got caught in previous series.

Once again Sachin was caught but he had the support of his cheerleader fans who would happily rally in protest so that charge would be removed. Not everyone else has that luxury.
 
No one cares about odi/ t20 outside of SC when rating a player.

And it’s irrelevant which method you use. The act itself is illegal so either you do it or you don’t do it.

It’s like saying you stab someone but didn’t kill them so you are innocent. Doesn’t work that way.

again. conjecture. Did the indian players get caught or anyone else? no.
Aussies got caught.
 
No one cares about odi/ t20 outside of SC when rating a player.

And it’s irrelevant which method you use. The act itself is illegal so either you do it or you don’t do it.

It’s like saying you stab someone but didn’t kill them so you are innocent. Doesn’t work that way.

And who cares what people outside the SC think? 200 million Pakistanis, 1.3 billion Indians, and 160 million Bangladeshis are the only ones keeping the sport alive.
 
how hard is it for you clowns to understand. Current attack is not the same as the 2014 attack that smith faced. It's simple really.

Current attack of india is far more lethal than the one smith faced.
 
More people are getting caught due to improved camera. Far also got caught in previous series.

Once again Sachin was caught but he had the support of his cheerleader fans who would happily rally in protest so that charge would be removed. Not everyone else has that luxury.

Just because others might be doing a crime, it doesn't make the crime any lesser.
Again, the difference was evident between the Australian bowling with sandpaper and without sandpaper.
 
And who cares what people outside the SC think? 200 million Pakistanis, 1.3 billion Indians, and 160 million Bangladeshis are the only ones keeping the sport alive.

Honestly I don't care about our t20 but kohli does. All top players do. They are expected to play because players like kohli are marketable. Smith is not as popular. That actually favours him because he gets to play less matches and is well rested for important test games. A benefit that eludes kohli.
Kohli would be the better test player too if he wasnt expected to be an all rounder in all formats. People pay money to watch kohli play and he is far more marketable than an introverted smith.
 
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Just because others might be doing a crime, it doesn't make the crime any lesser.
Again, the difference was evident between the Australian bowling with sandpaper and without sandpaper.

I have no issue with that. But this has nothing to do with his ability to score runs. And that’s what we are talking about here.

He got booed in every inning in England for sandpaper gate but that didn’t stop him from averaging 100.
 
I've never seen someone make the six over cover look as easy as he does. Incredible.
 
he dint? he faced a pre prime ishant who is not current ishant.

he never faced the best bowler in the world aka bumrah

he never faced injury free shami 2.0.
the shami he faced struggled with injury woes and isn't anywhere close to the current shami we see.

Anyway we will get our answers soon and I have no doubt someone will take his head clean off this time.

Smith responds to challenges incredibly
First he was told he could never become a reliable test batsmen
Then people said he would fail in India
Then people said he couldn't but in England he dispelled this against a very good bowling attack

He has series in England and India that are as good as any overseas batsmen ever
If he says Australia is not going to lose we won't lose. We have complete faith in his ability to save us time in, time out, like he did in the Ashes
 
Smith responds to challenges incredibly
First he was told he could never become a reliable test batsmen
Then people said he would fail in India
Then people said he couldn't but in England he dispelled this against a very good bowling attack

He has series in England and India that are as good as any overseas batsmen ever
If he says Australia is not going to lose we won't lose. We have complete faith in his ability to save us time in, time out, like he did in the Ashes

Maybe he will. Maybe not. We shall see. If he does perform again vs this world class indian attack then there is no stopping him whatsoever.

If this indian attack can't stop him then no one will.
Kohli will want to step up too I am sure.

if smith performs well, kohli often raises the bar again to challenge smith. Let's see who wins when india tours australia.
Can't wait.
 
Him and Rohit are in a league of their own when it comes to batsmenship.
 
Smith responds to challenges incredibly
First he was told he could never become a reliable test batsmen
Then people said he would fail in India
Then people said he couldn't but in England he dispelled this against a very good bowling attack

He has series in England and India that are as good as any overseas batsmen ever
If he says Australia is not going to lose we won't lose. We have complete faith in his ability to save us time in, time out, like he did in the Ashes

Then why did Australia lose in Bangladesh? Why didn't he step up there?
 
Then why did Australia lose in Bangladesh? Why didn't he step up there?

Or choked in the decisive final innings in India?

Or resorted to sandpaper when he and his team were failing in SA?


If you were to nit-pick, you can find faults quite quickly.
 
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India’s captain Virat Kohli says his priority is to help India win matches than just play ‘slam-bang cricket’ for the sake of entertaining the crowd in the Twenty20 game.

Kohli produced a batting masterclass in Friday’s Twenty20 match against West Indies, smashing a career-best 94 not out to help India chase a 200-plus target with eight balls to spare.

The elegant right-hander, who clobbered six sixes, went run-a-ball in his first 20 deliveries before exploding to plunder 74 off the last 30.

“I’m not someone who comes to the stadium wanting to entertain people hitting the ball in the air. I want to get the job done,” Kohli told broadcaster Star Sports after India won the series opener in Hyderabad by six wickets.

“Within that, if I get an opportunity to hit sixes, I will. But the aim is not to play slam-bang cricket.

“I think my role in this team is to bat long. Myself or Rohit (Sharma), one of the guys has to play till the end because our strength is usually striking in the later half of the innings, and our strike rate goes up.”

Kohli relies more on his timing than muscle power to hit those sixes and the 31-year-old sees no reason to try and overhaul his technique.

“The basic funda is that I don’t want to change my game too much because I play all three formats and I want to contribute in all three formats. I don’t want to be a format specialist.

“It’s about contributing to your team and making the team win.”

Kohli’s knock was an innings of two halves with the right-hander trying to hit too hard initially before rediscovering the sublime timing which makes him the top ranked batsman both in tests and one-dayers.

“I thought I’m not a guy who slogs the ball. I’m more of a timer, so I’m going to rely on my timing. And then the pitch was good enough for me to go through the line of the ball and just play my shots.”

Despite his assertions, Kohli’s knock was not totally devoid of entertainment, and at one point he mimicked Kesrick Williams’ box-ticking celebration after hitting the bowler for a six.

“It happened to me in Jamaica when he got me out, so I thought I’ll tick a few in the notebook as well,” Kohli said.

https://in.reuters.com/article/cric...ld-rather-finish-than-entertain-idINKBN1YB04Q
 
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Why to drag Smith in this thread?
If Kohli wasn't Indian I think this thread would have not gone too far.
 
International cricket is played across three formats.

The best bowler or batsman of the era has to excellent across the three formats.

Smith is undoubtedly the best test batsman, while Virat is second.

But in T20s and ODIs Virat is the best while Smith will struggle to make it in top 10. Many will rate a young Babbar over Smith in LoIs.

So while Smith is the best test batsman, Virat is the best Batsman of the era.
 
International cricket is played across three formats.

The best bowler or batsman of the era has to excellent across the three formats.

Smith is undoubtedly the best test batsman, while Virat is second.

But in T20s and ODIs Virat is the best while Smith will struggle to make it in top 10. Many will rate a young Babbar over Smith in LoIs.

So while Smith is the best test batsman, Virat is the best Batsman of the era.

That is correct, and is the popular opinion given how popular LOI is outside Eng and Aus.
 
Highest average in won games (min 10K runs):

Kohli - 13975 runs @ 70.58 with 48 centuries
Inzamam - 12135 runs @ 59.19 with 24 centuries
Amla - 12245 runs @ 59.15 with 40 tons
De Villiers - 12468 runs @ 58.81 with 37 centuries

Virat only batsman to score 40+ tons at an average of 60+ in won games.
 
Doesn't matter. His away average is also higher than Kohli's.

No matter which way you slice it, Smith is day light ahead in tests.

No matter which way you slice it? What if I look at higher scores and more double 100s(even as a ratio of innings played)?
 
Kohli is a much better captain and batsman than Smith across all the formats. Never seen Smith play well against a quality bowling attack in ODI and T20I. His average in ODI and T20I is an indicator of his ability which is surprising because early in his career, he used to be a big hitter.
 
Honestly speaking, people will remember this era as the Kohli era. He will be considered as the best batsmen of this generation, while Smith would probably be acknowledged as the best test bat of this era.
 
No matter which way you slice it? What if I look at higher scores and more double 100s(even as a ratio of innings played)?

He scores lot of double hundreds but then it would also mean he goes missing more often in other innings. It implies lack of consistency.
 
Kohli will be more famous than Smith. It’s natural. Kohli has a huge population as a fan base. He also plays shorter formats much better and those are the ones commercially most popular.

I never disputed “fame” part. Kohli will always have an edge in that department rightfully or wrongfully.
 
I had a similar sentiment but the more I watched him, the more his style fascinates me! How can someone with almost alien like technique pile up those runs?

Michael Vaughn put it perfectly: Smith is an abstract artist.
 
Smith is one level above kohli in tests.

You are free to put forward logical arguments against the statement.

it's easier for smith to perform vs SENA countries and vice versa for kohli vs Asian countries. Unfortunately for kohli, apart from india being a powerhouse, the rest of the Asian countries are either mediocre or still in a developing phase.

But overall smith is better as you said because he performed vs india in India. Kohli performed well in australia but failed in india last time. Let's see if he can correct his mistakes next time australia tour india.
 
Indian cricket team skipper Virat Kohli is no stranger to creating records in T20I cricket and on Wednesday, he will once again have a chance to add another massive feat to his already illustrious career when he takes the field against West Indies in Mumbai. Kohli is just six runs away from completing 1000 T20I runs at home and in the process, he will become the first Indian cricketer to achieve this feat. New Zealand’s Martin Guptill (1430) and Colin Munro (1000) are the only two batsmen in the world to achieve this feat at this point.

In the second T20I encounter on Sunday, the right-handed batsman surpassed Rohit Sharma to reclaim the top spot in the T20I highest run-scorers list. While Kohli has scored 2,563 runs in the shortest format , Sharma has registered 2,562 runs in the format.The Indian captain was just three runs away from Rohits mark, when the innings started.

But Rohit, who came out to open the innings for India, scored 15 runs before he was dismissed by Jason Holder. When Kohli came out to bat, he needed 18 runs to cross Rohit’s mark and become the leading-run scorer in the shortest format. Kohli was dismissed for 19 in 17 balls after he tried to go for a big hit, but was caught by Lendl Simmons off Kesrick Williams. But he managed to crossing Rohit’s mark before he departed.

India will have to address the many inadequacies laid bare by a resolute West Indies in the second T20 International when the two teams made up of power-hitters square off in what promises to be an enthralling series-finale. The rubber is locked 1-1 after two-time world champions West Indies turned on the style in the second T20 International in Thiruvananthapuram following a Virat Kohli special in the lung-opener in Hyderabad.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...at-in-t20is/story-otOjNk8FKflh9n4mvbpuOO.html
 
And as per [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION], Kohli doesn't score his runs enough quickly.

I have followed Kohli all his career and when mattered, he has batted exactly as the game required. Today and first T20 are just another examples. 70 off 29 balls today and 94 off 50 that day in a Chase.
 
And as per [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION], Kohli doesn't score his runs enough quickly.

I have followed Kohli all his career and when mattered, he has batted exactly as the game required. Today and first T20 are just another examples. 70 off 29 balls today and 94 off 50 that day in a Chase.

He can when it is needed. He does have this higher gear which he rarely unleashes.
 
smith can only dream of being a complete all format player like kohli without proper rest.

Kohli has to play so many games due to marketing reasons hence he isn't able to focus entirely on tests. If kohli was not as popular then I am certain his test record will be even better than smith.
 
He scores lot of double hundreds but then it would also mean he goes missing more often in other innings. It implies lack of consistency.

How does he show lack of consistency when he has one of the highest 100s to innings ratio as well as one of the highest conversion ratio in the history of cricket?
 
it's easier for smith to perform vs SENA countries and vice versa for kohli vs Asian countries. Unfortunately for kohli, apart from india being a powerhouse, the rest of the Asian countries are either mediocre or still in a developing phase.

But overall smith is better as you said because he performed vs india in India. Kohli performed well in australia but failed in india last time. Let's see if he can correct his mistakes next time australia tour india.


India failing in India is more an aberration than some kind of deficiency. He is not run hungry like Smith on that count. But he does have to fix his 4th innings in Tests. SOmeone like Laxman who averages 100 in 4th innings while winning the match.
 
India failing in India is more an aberration than some kind of deficiency. He is not run hungry like Smith on that count. But he does have to fix his 4th innings in Tests. SOmeone like Laxman who averages 100 in 4th innings while winning the match.

Even though I do agree with the premise of the argument, the average in wins is not a good measure for it.

One could effectively fail in most matches, but score a couple of 4th innings chases to get that average. I would want to look at overall 4th innings average, not just in wins. Last year, Kohli had 4 chances to make it - 2 in SA and 2 in England (1st and 4th test). He did come close in the 1st test in England. Had he hung around for another 20 odd runs, we would have won.
 
Even though I do agree with the premise of the argument, the average in wins is not a good measure for it.

One could effectively fail in most matches, but score a couple of 4th innings chases to get that average. I would want to look at overall 4th innings average, not just in wins. Last year, Kohli had 4 chances to make it - 2 in SA and 2 in England (1st and 4th test). He did come close in the 1st test in England. Had he hung around for another 20 odd runs, we would have won.

yes. There was another time he almost gunned down 350 plus on day 5 in Australia. He and Vijay were coasting along. Vijay got out. Then Rahnae had a poor call.
 
He has improved his power game. He can now easily hit sixes like other elite T20 hitters. Fantastic to watch.
 
Kohli jumped into 10th rank in ICC T20I Rankings.

Now he is back to top 10 in all formats batting rankings..

No. 1 in Test Cricket
No. 1 in ODI Cricket
No.10 in t20i
 
Kohli jumped into 10th rank in ICC T20I Rankings.

Now he is back to top 10 in all formats batting rankings..

No. 1 in Test Cricket
No. 1 in ODI Cricket
No.10 in t20i

Is he now gunning for supremacy across all 3 formats?

Has ever a batsman or bowler managed #1 ranking in all 3 formats at once?
 
Is he now gunning for supremacy across all 3 formats?

Has ever a batsman or bowler managed #1 ranking in all 3 formats at once?


No one didn't achieve no-1 rank in all formats at same time .

But on overall there are only three players who have achieved the number 1 rank in all 3 formats

Ricky Ponting (AUS)
Matthew Hayden(AUS)
Virat Kohli (IND).
 
Cricketers who held the No. 1 rank in Tests and ODIs at the same time

Keith Stackpole 1972
Vivian Richards 1982-83, 1985-89
Javed Miandad 1989
Brian Lara 1994-96
Sachin Tendulkar 1998-99, 2001-02
Ricky Ponting 2006-07
Hashim Amla 2013
AB de Villiers 2013-2015
Virat Kohli 2018
 
And as per [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION], Kohli doesn't score his runs enough quickly.

I have followed Kohli all his career and when mattered, he has batted exactly as the game required. Today and first T20 are just another examples. 70 off 29 balls today and 94 off 50 that day in a Chase.
Kohli batted at a higher strike rate than the much vaunted Windies power hitters in the 2016 wc, only if Rahane batted at 150 we would have won that game.
 
Kohli jumped into 10th rank in ICC T20I Rankings.

Now he is back to top 10 in all formats batting rankings..

No. 1 in Test Cricket
No. 1 in ODI Cricket
No.10 in t20i

Lol Kohli at 10 while being clearly superior than the top 9 bats. He will be no 1 in all formats by the time we hit t20 wc.
 
Cricketers who held the No. 1 rank in Tests and ODIs at the same time

Keith Stackpole 1972
Vivian Richards 1982-83, 1985-89
Javed Miandad 1989
Brian Lara 1994-96
Sachin Tendulkar 1998-99, 2001-02
Ricky Ponting 2006-07
Hashim Amla 2013
AB de Villiers 2013-2015
Virat Kohli 2018

Tendulkar is the greatest because he was the best in 90s as a young player and in late 2000s he reached the top of the ladder in both formats once again as a veteran in his late 30s. That's at the level of Rod Laver, Federer, Muhammad Ali, Bradman.
 
Tendulkar is the greatest because he was the best in 90s as a young player and in late 2000s he reached the top of the ladder in both formats once again as a veteran in his late 30s. That's at the level of Rod Laver, Federer, Muhammad Ali, Bradman.

yes
He achieved two times :14:
 
How does he show lack of consistency when he has one of the highest 100s to innings ratio as well as one of the highest conversion ratio in the history of cricket?

Smith's higher..
 
Smith's higher..

Unless my math is wrong 27 centuries 22 fifties is higher conversion than 26 centuries 27 fifties. Infact Kohli's conversion next only to Bradman. Younis Khan, Hayden, Clarke all have better conversion than Smith.
 
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