What's new

Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

Around 600 posts and yet not a single post accepting that Muslims need to introspect on the actions of some of their community members post independence which is one of the biggest reasons for growing resentment against Muslims amongst Hindus.

It pretty much sums up why politicians are so easily to pit people against each other and polarise them for their own needs.

One of the most difficult thing for humans is to introspection and acknowledge their wrong doings, it’s always easier to blame and point out mistakes of other side than to accept your own.
The posts in thread clearly shows the same and that’s the main reason why the divide and resentment between the two communities is growing further and will continue to grow further for foreseeable future.
 
Red-Indian said:
Yeah I figured that out later. He probably knows less about Hindu belief and scriptures than @The Bald Eagle who's quoting him as a source.
Click to expand...
Well he is quoting Hindu scripture sources, please enlighten us if he is wrong. Much appreciated.

And here is a Hindu's take on beef or cow meat as food
 
big_gamer007 said:
Around 600 posts and yet not a single post accepting that Muslims need to introspect on the actions of some of their community members post independence which is one of the biggest reasons for growing resentment against Muslims amongst Hindus.

It pretty much sums up why politicians are so easily to pit people against each other and polarise them for their own needs.

One of the most difficult thing for humans is to introspection and acknowledge their wrong doings, it’s always easier to blame and point out mistakes of other side than to accept your own.
The posts in thread clearly shows the same and that’s the main reason why the divide and resentment between the two communities is growing further and will continue to grow further for foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
It's so unfortunate that people from both communities can't show the desired tolerance.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Around 600 posts and yet not a single post accepting that Muslims need to introspect on the actions of some of their community members post independence which is one of the biggest reasons for growing resentment against Muslims amongst Hindus.

It pretty much sums up why politicians are so easily to pit people against each other and polarise them for their own needs.

One of the most difficult thing for humans is to introspection and acknowledge their wrong doings, it’s always easier to blame and point out mistakes of other side than to accept your own.
The posts in thread clearly shows the same and that’s the main reason why the divide and resentment between the two communities is growing further and will continue to grow further for foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
You cannot make a muslim feel guilty. Impossible.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Around 600 posts and yet not a single post accepting that Muslims need to introspect on the actions of some of their community members post independence which is one of the biggest reasons for growing resentment against Muslims amongst Hindus.

It pretty much sums up why politicians are so easily to pit people against each other and polarise them for their own needs.

One of the most difficult thing for humans is to introspection and acknowledge their wrong doings, it’s always easier to blame and point out mistakes of other side than to accept your own.
The posts in thread clearly shows the same and that’s the main reason why the divide and resentment between the two communities is growing further and will continue to grow further for foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

There is only reason ..

Hindutva believe in Hindu nationalism, Hindus being a great power etc . Then they read history & realise they have never been a global superpower, they were conquered by Muslims & then by the British . It’s embarrassing for them , not something they can change so are impregnated with hate due to this confusion.

Hindutva simply need to accept accurate history & move on with their lives.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Well he is quoting Hindu scripture sources, please enlighten us if he is wrong. Much appreciated.

And here is a Hindu's take on beef or cow meat as food
Click to expand...
We can get into endless rounds of quoting scriptures. I can quote verses at you to show how certain Vedas ask Hindus to revere the cow as their mother. You can quote different verses back at me till we both die of old age

In the end, why should that matter to you? All that should matter to Muslims in India is that millions of Hindus (a significant majority) deeply revere the cow and are hurt when any cow is slaughtered. Therefore it's a small sacrifice to instead eat chicken, mutton, rabbit, emu, fish, prawns, squid etc. etc. Hindus should make similar sacrifices if Muslims hold something deeply holy like their Prophet.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Is Israel agrees for ceasefire, palestinians should let bygones be bygones.

You also agree that kashmiris should now focus on future otherwise they will become bigoted.
Click to expand...
Yeah make ceasefire and vacate their land. Dispute resolved

Same for Kashmiris, give them their land and freedom to be part of any country or be independent. And then move on.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Yeah make ceasefire and vacate their land. Dispute resolved

Same for Kashmiris, give them their land and freedom to be part of any country or be independent. And then move on.
Click to expand...
Vacate their land? Why? Forget history and let bygones be bygones.

When it comes to muslims, then conditions arise before letting bygones be bygones.

Hindus should unconditionally forget history and focus on future.

Do as I say, and not as I do.

This is why I tell Hindus, whenever in doubt, do what muslims would have done at your place.
 
Red-Indian said:
I do think there is something to what he says. It's changing because of dedicated efforts by the likes of the VHP, BJP and other associates parties but Hinduism has a tradition of being big tent and tolerant compared to other major religions.
- No religious figures - whether Muslim, Buddhist, Jain, Christian etc. are insulted
- All religions are allowed to carry out proselytization activities
- Multiple religions religious days and public holidays are accepted

It's what made Hinduism likable for non-religious folks but I do understand the viewpoint of the Hindutva types. If they continue to be endlessly accommodative, it's very possible Hinduism in India would end up like Christianity in Scandinavia. Present in theory but not practice. Religions like any other ideology are as much defined by their red lines and hates as much as their beliefs. By internal consensus, they've chosen to fight the red lines to be a ban on cow slaughter and reclaiming a few ancient temples. I accept that and thank my lucky stars they haven't chosen something like the caste system or widow remarriage which would be truly harmful to society.
Click to expand...
Hinduism may have the tradition of being a big tent, but much of that could potentially be attributed to a loose-ish approach because of the number of variations among its adherents.

They have every right to be less accommodating, but that, I believe, would require establishing a Hindu orthodoxy that understands where it can accommodate and where it can't.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Is Israel agrees for ceasefire, palestinians should let bygones be bygones.

You also agree that kashmiris should now focus on future otherwise they will become bigoted.
Click to expand...

Daft comparison.

Muslims aren’t ruling India now , it’s been right wing extreme Hindus from the RSS movement.

It’s time for them to move on because they’ve had enough time to turn India into a 1st world nation but it’s still a 3rd world nation & no sign of anything changing .
 
KingKhanWC said:
Daft comparison.

Muslims aren’t ruling India now , it’s been right wing extreme Hindus from the RSS movement.

It’s time for them to move on because they’ve had enough time to turn India into a 1st world nation but it’s still a 3rd world nation & no sign of anything changing .
Click to expand...
Muslims are still occupying hindu temples.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
He is a comparative religion scripture expert that most Indians are familiar with.
Click to expand...
He is good at what he does but we can't take him as an expert on Hinduism.

Only Hindus can establish what their religion says. Zakir and co will present it from a biased Islamic lens
 
CricketCartoons said:
There are many. This one for a start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyanvapi_Mosque
Click to expand...
The page you mentioned tell us that this Mosque was built back in 1679 not recently and in 2024 Hindus have been given some possession of it. So firstly it a century old dispute and secondly Hindus have reclaimed and not Muslims.

And here you were questioning Palestinians right to a land which was theirs until 1948 lol. It's so ironic.
 
KingKhanWC said:
There is only reason ..

Hindutva believe in Hindu nationalism, Hindus being a great power etc . Then they read history & realise they have never been a global superpower, they were conquered by Muslims & then by the British . It’s embarrassing for them , not something they can change so are impregnated with hate due to this confusion.

Hindutva simply need to accept accurate history & move on with their lives.
Click to expand...

What is Hindutva? Do you feel that in recent years whatever you believe to be Hindutva has gained more followers compared to couple of decades ago?
Or do you think hindutva has always been there and there have been same number of people with that mindset than there are today?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Hinduism may have the tradition of being a big tent, but much of that could potentially be attributed to a loose-ish approach because of the number of variations among its adherents.

They have every right to be less accommodating, but that, I believe, would require establishing a Hindu orthodoxy that understands where it can accommodate and where it can't.
Click to expand...
Of course you're right. One of the reasons Hinduism is a big tent is because of the number of variations it's historically had. There are other reasons but that discussion is irrelevant.

On your second point though, you can't demand that. What is a red line and what is not is established by public consensus and convention not clerical orthodoxy. Muslims in the west are willing to accept being forced to serve LGBTQ clientele in their businesses but will campaign vigorously against comical depictions of their religious figures. Both are abhorrent to true Muslims but no particular orthodoxy has drawn this red line. It's just emerged by itself as a 'this far and no further'.
 
CricketCartoons said:
You cannot make a muslim feel guilty. Impossible.
Click to expand...

It’s not about feeling guilty, they shouldn’t feel guilty about how certain section of people from their community acted, they shouldn’t feel guilty about some they personally didn’t do. However, they should introspect and create atmosphere which distances themselves from those action instead of feeling pride towards those actions.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
The page you mentioned tell us that this Mosque was built back in 1679 not recently and in 2024 Hindus have been given some possession of it. So firstly it a century old dispute and secondly Hindus have reclaimed and not Muslims.

And here you were questioning Palestinians right to a land which was theirs until 1948 lol. It's so ironic.
Click to expand...
So you will decide where to draw the starting line?

I don't care about Palestine-Israel issue. I have blocked all news from there. Just wanted to know where you stand on let bygones be bygones.

That demolished temple still stands as a reminder that it was demolished and occupied.

Of course I will never imagine that any Muslim will agree to it being handed over to hindus, because for muslim the rule is: What once became ours is ours forever. And I like that attitude.

That is why I tell hindus not to waste time on right or wrong and other phisophical debates. Do what muslims would have done if they were in your shoes.
 
Bewal Express said:
Either there is a law or there isn't. The law apply should be applied equally
Click to expand...
That's a fair point. There's a lot of work to do then - Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Orban, Modi, Khomeini, Netanyahu all need to be arrested for hate speech and convicted. At least you guys have made a start with Imran Khan. We'll have to figure out how to get the rest in jail.
 
big_gamer007 said:
What is Hindutva? Do you feel that in recent years whatever you believe to be Hindutva has gained more followers compared to couple of decades ago?
Or do you think hindutva has always been there and there have been same number of people with that mindset than there are today?
Click to expand...

It’s an extreme religious nationalist ideology with little else substance. It has increased numbers due to poor social conditions in India & other factors. It will only harm India in the long term .
 
Red-Indian said:
That's a fair point. There's a lot of work to do then - Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Orban, Modi, Khomeini, Netanyahu all need to be arrested for hate speech and convicted. At least you guys have made a start with Imran Khan. We'll have to figure out how to get the rest in jail.
Click to expand...
Which hate speech did IK make. See it doesn't take long for you guys to show your true colours. You wanted Zakir Naik done for converting Hindus to Islam and called it hate speech. But when it comes to Modi, you start the game about this person and that person. They don't come under Ind law, so why is he and other BJP not in jail
 
Bewal Express said:
Which hate speech did IK make. See it doesn't take long for you guys to show your true colours. You wanted Zakir Naik done for converting Hindus to Islam and called it hate speech. But when it comes to Modi, you start the game about this person and that person. They don't come under Ind law, so why is he and other BJP not in jail
Click to expand...
No I'm actually praising Pakistan for putting Imran in jail. I assume one of the hundreds of charges against him is hate speech and discrimination against Ahmadis. Lot of credit to Pakistan if they manage to convict him on that.

India should also charge Modi. It's tough though because he has immunity as head of State and he's always been very cunning to not mention Muslims by name and use hate speech through indirect insinuations etc. Maybe after his term, if the opposition comes to power, they can try to indict him.

Zakir Naik has unfortunately escaped.
 
Red-Indian said:
No I'm actually praising Pakistan for putting Imran in jail. I assume one of the hundreds of charges against him is hate speech and discrimination against Ahmadis. Lot of credit to Pakistan if they manage to convict him on that.

India should also charge Modi. It's tough though because he has immunity as head of State and he's always been very cunning to not mention Muslims by name and use hate speech through indirect insinuations etc. Maybe after his term, if the opposition comes to power, they can try to indict him.

Zakir Naik has unfortunately escaped.
Click to expand...


You assume wrong. He was put in jail because he put noses out of joint in the establishment, none of them could give two figs about Ahmadis or anyone else you might consider has been the victim of hate speech.
 
KingKhanWC said:
It’s an extreme religious nationalist ideology with little else substance. It has increased numbers due to poor social conditions in India & other factors. It will only harm India in the long term .
Click to expand...
@big_gamer007 It is similar to Islamic extremism that breeds terrorism across the world. Many countries including India, Pakistan, and African countries are harmed by this.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
You assume wrong. He was put in jail because he put noses out of joint in the establishment, none of them could give two figs about Ahmadis or anyone else you might consider has been the victim of hate speech.
Click to expand...
Then I take the credit back. It's tough to track with so many charges against him.

India and Pakistan are then equally bad at punishing hate speech by popular politicians against our minorities.

Is the UK doing a better job I wonder? I remember Boris Johnson making some hate speech-type comments about Muslims and how women wearing the full face veil "look like letter boxes and bank robbers." Has he been charged? I'll try to google it on my own but you might know better.
 
Red-Indian said:
No I'm actually praising Pakistan for putting Imran in jail. I assume one of the hundreds of charges against him is hate speech and discrimination against Ahmadis. Lot of credit to Pakistan if they manage to convict him on that.
Click to expand...

Why are you assuming and not writing after knowing all facts?

Imran's charges are all sham charges. He went against establishment and so they prosecuted him.
 
sweep_shot said:
Why are you assuming and not writing after knowing all facts?

Imran's charges are all sham charges. He went against establishment and so they prosecuted him.
Click to expand...
Dude, you're not a Pakistani. I'm not going to take your word for it. I doubt you have any more of an idea than me. He could be totally guilty and you wouldn't be aware of all the facts.

In any case, it's impossible for anyone except a fulltime journalist or legal expert to be aware of all the charges against Imran. I was joking when I said hundreds but there's probably dozens at least - all very complicated. Since I'm aware of hate speech statements and open discrimination in his government against Ahmadis, I assumed that was one of charges.
 
Red-Indian said:
Then I take the credit back. It's tough to track with so many charges against him.

India and Pakistan are then equally bad at punishing hate speech by popular politicians against our minorities.

Is the UK doing a better job I wonder? I remember Boris Johnson making some hate speech-type comments about Muslims and how women wearing the full face veil "look like letter boxes and bank robbers." Has he been charged? I'll try to google it on my own but you might know better.
Click to expand...

The UK itself is still coming to terms with the concept of hate speech, it is a relatively new phenomenon which was brought in to curb free speech in specific cases which were felt detrimental to certain interests.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
The UK itself is still coming to terms with the concept of hate speech, it is a relatively new phenomenon which was brought in to curb free speech in specific cases which were felt detrimental to certain interests.
Click to expand...
Thought as much. Despite @Bewal Express 's fond hopes for all to be equal before law for hate speech, no politician in the world gets convicted for it. I thought Pakistan had at least indicted Imran Khan for it but apparently even that's not the case.
 
Red-Indian said:
Dude, you're not a Pakistani. I'm not going to take your word for it. I doubt you have any more of an idea than me. He could be totally guilty and you wouldn't be aware of all the facts.

In any case, it's impossible for anyone except a fulltime journalist or legal expert to be aware of all the charges against Imran. I was joking when I said hundreds but there's probably dozens at least - all very complicated. Since I'm aware of hate speech statements and open discrimination in his government against Ahmadis, I assumed that was one of charges.
Click to expand...

I followed this closely.

Again, you are always assuming.
 
Red-Indian said:
Thought as much. Despite @Bewal Express 's fond hopes for all to be equal before law for hate speech, no politician in the world gets convicted for it. I thought Pakistan had at least indicted Imran Khan for it but apparently even that's not the case.
Click to expand...
What would you like IK to be indicted for? They have 200 cases, you can indict him on another fake case and make it 201🤣🤣
 
RexRex said:
Enforcing slavery is not a part of christian doctrine, but monotheism is.
Click to expand...
yeah no. That statement is nothing but a dishonest cop out. I'll give you credit for being consistent

Here is from horse's mouth

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

“These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

Matthew 5:17-18 “Don’t think that I have come to destroy the law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to bring about what they said. I tell you the truth, nothing will disappe “Do not think that I have come to

“Don’t think that I have come to destroy the law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to bring about what they said. I tell you the truth, nothing will disappe “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish...
www.bible.com

www.biblegateway.com

Ephesians 6:5-9 NIV;KJV - Slaves, obey your earthly masters with - Bible Gateway

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 
Red-Indian said:
No I'm actually praising Pakistan for putting Imran in jail. I assume one of the hundreds of charges against him is hate speech and discrimination against Ahmadis. Lot of credit to Pakistan if they manage to convict him on that.

India should also charge Modi. It's tough though because he has immunity as head of State and he's always been very cunning to not mention Muslims by name and use hate speech through indirect insinuations etc. Maybe after his term, if the opposition comes to power, they can try to indict him.

Zakir Naik has unfortunately escaped.
Click to expand...
I had seen Zakir Naik only cursorily and thought he was talking about unity of religions. Then a friend who was a muslim told me that he hates Zakir Naik. I said but why, Naik is secular and speaks about commonalities in religions. He told me that you don't get it. He invites your religious people to humiliate them on his platform.

So when years later Zakir Naiks hate speeches came to light, I recalled the words of my friend.
 
Bewal Express said:
What would you like IK to be indicted for? They have 200 cases, you can indict him on another fake case and make it 201🤣🤣
Click to expand...
I'm not a Pakistani, not an Ahmadi, not even a Hindu. Given the 200 or so cases (I didn't even know the number) against Imran Khan, I assumed one or two had to do with discrimination and hate speech against minorities since I was aware of discrimination against Ahmadis and was giving Pakistan credit for doing something India has not been able to do - convict/indict a politician and head of state for this stuff.

@Cpt. Rishwat explained that there were no such charges so I withdrew my praise.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sweep_shot said:
I followed this closely.

Again, you are always assuming.
Click to expand...
Nah I doubt it. Outsiders can't be so aware. Do you know the details of each of the 200 cases that @Bewal Express was mentioning? I'm sure he's corrupt and power hungry like every politician on the face of this earth since the beginning of time but which of the cases have some merit in them and which are total fabrications?
 
Red-Indian said:
I have no dog in the fight. I'm not a Pakistani, not an Ahmadi, not even a Hindu. Given the 200 or so cases (I didn't even know the number) against Imran Khan, I assumed one or two had to do with discrimination and hate speech against minorities since I was aware of discrimination against Ahmadis and was giving Pakistan credit for doing something India has not been able to do - convict/indict a politician and head of state for this stuff.

@Cpt. Rishwat explained that there were no such charges so I withdrew my praise.
Click to expand...
Don't think Imran Khan made any hate speech against Ahmadis. He only said that Ahmadis are not muslims and he doesn't believe in their views. That is the official stand of the constitution.
 
Red-Indian said:
Nah I doubt it. Outsiders can't be so aware. Do you know the details of each of the 200 cases that @Bewal Express was mentioning? I'm sure he's corrupt and power hungry like every politician on the face of this earth since the beginning of time but which of the cases have some merit in them and which are total fabrications?
Click to expand...


Information are all open in public nowadays thanks to open internet. Anybody can know about these.
 
Red-Indian said:
Nah I doubt it. Outsiders can't be so aware. Do you know the details of each of the 200 cases that @Bewal Express was mentioning? I'm sure he's corrupt and power hungry like every politician on the face of this earth since the beginning of time but which of the cases have some merit in them and which are total fabrications?
Click to expand...
The 200 cases are not cases, more like attempts to blackmail him to let the Junta rule. The 3 most "serious "were laughed out of court. If you are going to comment at least do some research.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Red-Indian said:
Nah I doubt it. Outsiders can't be so aware. Do you know the details of each of the 200 cases that @Bewal Express was mentioning? I'm sure he's corrupt and power hungry like every politician on the face of this earth since the beginning of time but which of the cases have some merit in them and which are total fabrications?
Click to expand...

Imran Khan left his cozy UK life to return to Pakistan and help out Pakistan. Are you aware of his charitable works? He built a hospital.

He is not corrupt like a typical 3rd world politician. He is not a regular politician. He is a populist.

The charges against him are all laughable. If those are considered as real charges, every single desi politician would probably go to jail.
 
Bewal Express said:
The 200 cases are not cases, more like attempts to blackmail him to let the Junta rule. The 3 most "serious "were laughed out of court. If you are going to comment at least do some research. Both @Major @Mamoon used to do this and I made mince meat out of both for their badniyaati
Click to expand...
If you believe he's the first politician since the the first tribe leader stood up to lead his tribe in East Africa a few hundred thousand years ago not to be atleast somewhat corrupt and powerhungry, you need to raise your level of cynicality.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Red-Indian said:
We're getting sidetracked so I'll stop before the mods ban Imran Khan discussions but you're a naive guy buddy. If you believe he's the first politician since the the first tribe leader stood up to lead his tribe in East Africa a few hundred thousand years ago not to be atleast somewhat corrupt and powerhungry, you need to raise your level of cynicality.
Click to expand...

Yet another assumption.

Do you have any proof that Imran Khan is corrupt? If yes, give us an example.
 
Red-Indian said:
Of course you're right. One of the reasons Hinduism is a big tent is because of the number of variations it's historically had. There are other reasons but that discussion is irrelevant.

On your second point though, you can't demand that. What is a red line and what is not is established by public consensus and convention not clerical orthodoxy. Muslims in the west are willing to accept being forced to serve LGBTQ clientele in their businesses but will campaign vigorously against comical depictions of their religious figures. Both are abhorrent to true Muslims but no particular orthodoxy has drawn this red line. It's just emerged by itself as a 'this far and no further'.
Click to expand...
I don't demand it. I think it will be a natural evolution. It will have to be if you want to make things legal or illegal.

Muslims in the west consider LGBT haram but because the system is secular there has to be give and take but there is no room for gay Muslims to shape Islamic thought.

Once Hindus start establishing religious based laws ( which is their right) they will inevitably have to codify and make mainstream certain beliefs over others. Over time an orthodoxy will have to develop. I don't see it being possible any other way.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I don't demand it. I think it will be a natural evolution. It will have to be if you want to make things legal or illegal.

Muslims in the west consider LGBT haram but because the system is secular there has to be give and take but there is no room for gay Muslims to shape Islamic thought.

Once Hindus start establishing religious based laws ( which is their right) they will inevitably have to codify and make mainstream certain beliefs over others. Over time an orthodoxy will have to develop. I don't see it being possible any other way.
Click to expand...
There's public (including me if it comes down to it) and politicians in many states fighting back against too many religion based laws though. Modi himself ran up against the limit of religion based campaigning in the last elections. Hindus who want to see religion at the centre of public life ( at least for now and hopefully for ever) can only win symbolic, low stakes victories - cow slaughter bans, a couple of temples reconstructed - we'll give them that to show them that we agree they have to be acknowledged and respected.

Anything more substantive and they'll face opposition...there's hundreds of millions of Dalits and backward castes who don't particularly care for religion based laws and 'Hindu Rashtra' stuff. In alliance with minorities and 'sickulars' like us, we'll hold back the saffron tide. I don't doubt we'll have to make a few more concessions. Maybe a law here making it illegal to make fun of Ganpati, maybe some insertions into textbooks glorifying the Hindu golden age but nothing changing the structure of the country.

Luckily I doubt Hinduism is made for an orthodoxy to develop. If they haven't managed it in thousands of years, I doubt they'll do it in this age of a million discordant voices each with an internet enabled microphone screaming out their interpretation of Hinduism.
 
KingKhanWC said:
The difference being a billion people voted in & cherish , love & see these Hindu extremists as heros
Click to expand...
Islamic extremists are celebrated as martyrs in certain parts of the world. We witnessed how 9-11 terrorists were celebrated in muslim countries.
 
Red-Indian said:
There's public (including me if it comes down to it) and politicians in many states fighting back against too many religion based laws though. Modi himself ran up against the limit of religion based campaigning in the last elections. Hindus who want to see religion at the centre of public life ( at least for now and hopefully for ever) can only win symbolic, low stakes victories - cow slaughter bans, a couple of temples reconstructed - we'll give them that to show them that we agree they have to be acknowledged and respected.

Anything more substantive and they'll face opposition...there's hundreds of millions of Dalits and backward castes who don't particularly care for religion based laws and 'Hindu Rashtra' stuff. In alliance with minorities and 'sickulars' like us, we'll hold back the saffron tide. I don't doubt we'll have to make a few more concessions. Maybe a law here making it illegal to make fun of Ganpati, maybe some insertions into textbooks glorifying the Hindu golden age but nothing changing the structure of the country.

Luckily I doubt Hinduism is made for an orthodoxy to develop. If they haven't managed it in thousands of years, I doubt they'll do it in this age of a million discordant voices each with an internet enabled microphone screaming out their interpretation of Hinduism.
Click to expand...
Let's see. Perhaps I am conditioned to expect an orthodoxy when it comes to these things.
 
ChennaiFan said:
Islamic extremists are celebrated as martyrs in certain parts of the world. We witnessed how 9-11 terrorists were celebrated in muslim countries.
Click to expand...

911 , you still believe the story lol . 99% of Muslims don’t even believe that

Read again, a collective of a billion people voted in extremists & glorify them openly . History has never seen this before .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
KingKhanWC said:
911 , you still believe the story lol . 99% of Muslims don’t even believe that

Read again, a collective of a billion people voted in extremists & glorify them openly . History has never seen this before .
Click to expand...
You believe an event suchas 9-11 as made up story for your convenience. If 99% muslims believe it as you mentioned, then I do understand it. It means they believe muslim can do no wrong.
Regarding Indian elections, the citizens voted for their leaders and that is fair. I didn't vote for BJP, but never considered them as Hindutva only party. Sure there are extremists in the party, but the people didn't vote for such minority.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Red-Indian said:
If you believe he's the first politician since the the first tribe leader stood up to lead his tribe in East Africa a few hundred thousand years ago not to be atleast somewhat corrupt and powerhungry, you need to raise your level of cynicality.
Click to expand...
I do. The guy is a legend. Has the highest approval rating in the World and loved by 80% of PK if not higher.
 
rpant_gabba said:
yeah no. That statement is nothing but a dishonest cop out. I'll give you credit for being consistent

Here is from horse's mouth

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - New International Version

“These are the laws you are to set before them: Hebrew Servants - “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

Matthew 5:17-18 “Don’t think that I have come to destroy the law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to bring about what they said. I tell you the truth, nothing will disappe “Do not think that I have come to

“Don’t think that I have come to destroy the law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to bring about what they said. I tell you the truth, nothing will disappe “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish...
www.bible.com

www.biblegateway.com

Ephesians 6:5-9 NIV;KJV - Slaves, obey your earthly masters with - Bible Gateway

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
Click to expand...

What is the point of quoting a bunch of verses here ?

Christian doctrine is decided by the church which was founded about 2000 years ago. The Bible was put together about 300 years after the formation of the church.
 
Red-Indian said:
It took decades of universal education, political campaigning, court judgements etc. to get these basic freedoms. Even after that, it's only a few years since Same-Sxx marriage was legally allowed in the States when it didn't affect anyone except the two poor dude/dudettes actually getting married. The US I'm sorry to tell you is no libertarian utopia and is in danger of sliding back if Trump comes to power.
Click to expand...

such people can never reform society for the better. Nothing is impossible. There used to be a time when Christians burned people at the stake for heresy and blasphemy. Now look at them.

Red-Indian said:
Yes things like blasphemy, cow slaughter etc. are still banned but they're small sacrifices that folks like other religionists, atheists etc. have to make to accommodate the religious. I'm not sure it's as egregious as you're making it out to be.
Click to expand...

Pre-2014 I don't recall people in India getting arrested much for blasphemy, but it seems like it has greatly increased since Modi came to power. It's the weaponisation of these laws that's troubling. The blasphemy law was mostly dormant but judges in recent times are now emboldened to put people in jail for it. Politicians also use these laws to intimidate their critics. eg - Zubair
 
RexRex said:
Pre-2014 I don't recall people in India getting arrested much for blasphemy, but it seems like it has greatly increased since Modi came to power.
Click to expand...
In short. I don't have any data on it, but I will still make this statement because I feel like it.
Even BJP's Nupur Sharma was booked under 295.

And police comes under state subject. So for any data you have to also provide which state police filed FIR under 295.

PS: I support this law. It is a secular law and protects the secular fabric of India.

PPS: Indian Penal Code is extinct. Now BNS is in effect. And the relevant section is 298. 295 is for distributing obscene material to a child.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Can you give the research for arrests/FIR made under 295 before and after 2014, along with the state police responsible for it?
Click to expand...

I didn't claim to have the research for arrests/FIR, did I ? I doubt such data is even available to public, I'm going by what I recall from newspaper reports over the last two decades.
 
RexRex said:
I didn't claim to have the research for arrests/FIR, did I ? I doubt such data is even available to public, I'm going by what I recall from newspaper reports over the last two decades.
Click to expand...
Let us hear what you recall about the last two decades.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
She wouldn't have even been charged if she hadn't offended India's important Arab friends.
Click to expand...
This is true. Arab leaders don't care about indian muslims, but do feel for Islam.

Although she was only responding to a maulvi who said something insulting to hindus and she said what if she says blah blah blah. The maulvi wasn't booked, but she was. Both should have been booked to uphold the law.
 
CricketCartoons said:
This is true. Arab leaders don't care about indian muslims, but do feel for Islam.

Although she was only responding to a maulvi who said something insulting to hindus and she said what if she says blah blah blah. The maulvi wasn't booked, but she was. Both should have been booked to uphold the law.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the maulvi said, but if India has hate speech laws then if he contravened them then he should have been charged. Nupur Sharma had to be censured because she was a representative of Modi and thus embarrassed him in front of his international contemporaries.
 
RexRex said:
zubair, abhijit iyer, a couple of cartoonists whose names I can't recall are the more prominent ones I remember.
Click to expand...
Abhijit Iyer pro BJP by Orissa Police. Zubair anti BJP, Nupur Sharma pro BJP. A couple of cartoonists means 2 cartoonists. Wondering which state police.

Seems more pro BJP got to face this law.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I don't know what the maulvi said, but if India has hate speech laws then if he contravened them then he should have been charged. Nupur Sharma had to be censured because she was a representative of Modi and thus embarrassed him in front of his international contemporaries.
Click to expand...
The maulvi was safe because dindus love to get insulted. While another dindu was killed on camera for social media post supporting nupur sharma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kanhaiya_Lal
 
CricketCartoons said:
Abhijit Iyer pro BJP by Orissa Police. Zubair anti BJP, Nupur Sharma pro BJP. A couple of cartoonists means 2 cartoonists. Wondering which state police.

Seems more pro BJP got to face this law.
Click to expand...

In post#625, I said politicians in general abuse the blasphemy law to intimidate, not just BJP politicians.

Abhijit Iyer released a video where he gave a nickname to a temple that had graphic imagery on it. Dumb judge sent him to a month in prison for it. I believe it was under the Patnaik govt. Zubair was sent to jail by UP police I think for images that he had posted a decade earlier on Facebook. While in jail, police demanded to know why he never criticised non-BJP politicians on his website. Cartoonists were from Bengal that got into trouble with Mamata. Or was it a professor ? Need to check.

But you get my point. Blasphemy law gets weaponised by people in power.
 
RexRex said:
In post#625, I said politicians in general abuse the blasphemy law to intimidate, not just BJP politicians.

Abhijit Iyer released a video where he gave a nickname to a temple that had graphic imagery on it. Dumb judge sent him to a month in prison for it. I believe it was under the Patnaik govt. Zubair was sent to jail by UP police I think for images that he had posted a decade earlier on Facebook. While in jail, police demanded to know why he never criticised non-BJP politicians on his website. Cartoonists were from Bengal that got into trouble with Mamata. Or was it a professor ? Need to check.

But you get my point. Blasphemy law gets weaponised by people in power.
Click to expand...
You made an important point that after coming of Modi since 2014. As if this was the cause behind the effect. When you see little closely it has been used by non BJP states as well, and even in the case of BJP, pro BJP people have been at the receiving end. You need to find a better causation theory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Why is so much anti-Palestinian disinformation coming from India?
2
Replies
116
Views
4K
FearlessRoar
FearlessRoar
K
The differences behind the creation of Pakistan and Israel and why those cannot be compared
Replies
76
Views
1K
Bhaijaan
Bhaijaan
daytrader
‘The word Hindu is Arabic. Why don’t they throw it out?’ - Prominent historian Irfan Habib
Replies
50
Views
1K
guard
G
SpiritOf1903
Bollywood is obsessed with Pakistan. We’d be flattered if it weren’t so nasty Fatima Bhutto
2
Replies
80
Views
5K
JaDed
JaDed
MenInG
Why Indian Hindutva supporters back Israel on Gaza bombing
13 14 15
Replies
1K
Views
20K
FearlessRoar
FearlessRoar
Back
Top