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Will Joe Root beat Sachin Tendulkar's record in Tests for most runs?

Varun said:
The basic barometer for a test batsman to be an ATG for me is to average 50. Even after that he might not (eg: Vinod Kambli, Adam Voges), but it's a start.

Fate has made a lot of such flawed batsmen average just under 50, proving my point: Inzamam, Sehwag, Jayawardene etc.
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Tbf Inzi averages 50 for Pakistan in tests. He was brought down by a random game he played for world XI.
 
atreus said:
so Mohammad Yousuf is a ATG bat?
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Nope. 50 is a prerequisite but not definitive. He is still very good though.

BTW, all these are my definitions, just happens that most others agree with this watermark.

atreus said:
though, Root averages 50 anyway so who even really cares.
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For the moment. But there is a reason English players do not. Even Cook and KP dropped below 50 by the end of their careers.
 
Rajdeep said:
He will not be an ATG simply bcoz he avgs 40 in Ashes cricket. There is no excuse for an English batsman to avg so less against the biggest series of their calendar.
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That may or may not harm his legacy to England fans but over a course of a career every batsman has a couple of black marks against their name. It won't affect how he is viewed overall.
 
Rajdeep said:
He will not be an ATG simply bcoz he avgs 40 in Ashes cricket. There is no excuse for an English batsman to avg so less against the biggest series of their calendar.
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the 40 average will get offset by the 2015 Ashes, as long as he doesn't average less and has a big series down under.
 
Rajdeep said:
He will not be an ATG simply bcoz he avgs 40 in Ashes cricket. There is no excuse for an English batsman to avg so less against the biggest series of their calendar.
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What kind of logic is that? That's like saying Sachin is not an atg because he avg 40 against Pakistan in test cricket. Their is no excuse for an Indian batsmen to avg so less against their biggest rivals and their biggest series of the calendar?

Pure hypocrisy
 
DeadlyVenom said:
That may or may not harm his legacy to England fans but over a course of a career every batsman has a couple of black marks against their name. It won't affect how he is viewed overall.
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That is only applicable for an all format batter like SRT, Ponting, Kohli etc.

For a test only batsman like Root, if he is avg 40 against his biggest rivals, he is not an ATG. This is not a blackmark but a clear indication of his meekness in pressure games.
 
Varun said:
Nope. 50 is a prerequisite but not definitive. He is still very good though.

BTW, all these are my definitions, just happens that most others agree with this watermark.
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I mean, he'll probably just manage to 50+ average, he always does.

Varun said:
For the moment. But there is a reason English players do not. Even Cook and KP dropped below 50 by the end of their careers.
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And he averages 55.6 for last 5 years so he'll be fine, he's not going on a decline seemingly so he'll be fine, he is leagues above those blokes.
 
Rajdeep said:
That is only applicable for an all format batter like SRT, Ponting, Kohli etc.

For a test only batsman like Root, if he is avg 40 against his biggest rivals, he is not an ATG. This is not a blackmark but a clear indication of his meekness in pressure games.
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How much should he have averaged in your opinion to remove the blackmark?
 
Rajdeep said:
That is only applicable for an all format batter like SRT, Ponting, Kohli etc.

For a test only batsman like Root, if he is avg 40 against his biggest rivals, he is not an ATG. This is not a blackmark but a clear indication of his meekness in pressure games.
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Tenda is an all format batsmen? T20 was introduced in 2007 and Sachin retired in 2012 yet he only played one international t20 and flopped?
 
mominsaigol said:
What kind of logic is that? That's like saying Sachin is not an atg because he avg 40 against Pakistan in test cricket. Their is no excuse for an Indian batsmen to avg so less against their biggest rivals and their biggest series of the calendar?

Pure hypocrisy
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I typed a response yesterday but got deleted. How many times I have to remind likes of you that Sachin's record against Pakistan is an anomaly simply bcoz he has not played them during his absolute peak years.

First of all, Tendulkar avgs 42.34 against Pakistan and not 40. When India and Pakistan started playing test cricket regularly since 2004, he avgs 51.25 in that period. His overall avg is less due to the 1989 series when he was a teenager. Had he continued playing regular test cricket in 90s, I am sure he will be avg much more.

Also, 42.34 in that era is much better than avg 40 in present modern day cricket.
 
mominsaigol said:
Tenda is an all format batsmen? T20 was introduced in 2007 and Sachin retired in 2012 yet he only played one international t20 and flopped?
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Don't be silly. I can't respond all day to amateurish questions
 
Rajdeep said:
I typed a response yesterday but got deleted. How many times I have to remind likes of you that Sachin's record against Pakistan is an anomaly simply bcoz he has not played them during his absolute peak years.

First of all, Tendulkar avgs 42.34 against Pakistan and not 40. When India and Pakistan started playing test cricket regularly since 2004, he avgs 51.25 in that period. His overall avg is less due to the 1989 series when he was a teenager. Had he continued playing regular test cricket in 90s, I am sure he will be avg much more.

Also, 42.34 in that era is much better than avg 40 in present modern day cricket.
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Also, 42.34 in that era is much better than avg 40 in present modern day cricket.

Test cricket hasnt chanhed since the 60's. different era argument is onoy applicable to odi
 
DeadlyVenom said:
How much should he have averaged in your opinion to remove the blackmark?
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It is not about how much. He is a constant failure against Australia. In Australia leg of the Ashes, he is a minnow level batsman. Mind you, batting in Australia is much easier these days due to flat drop in pitches. So the fact that he has got 0 centuries there after 3 tours and 14 tests is bad like real. So he is not an ATG.
 
Rajdeep said:
It is not about how much. He is a constant failure against Australia. In Australia leg of the Ashes, he is a minnow level batsman. Mind you, batting in Australia is much easier these days due to flat drop in pitches. So the fact that he has got 0 centuries there are 3 tours and 14 tests is bad like real. So he is not an ATG.
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Death Match when?
 
mominsaigol said:
Also, 42.34 in that era is much better than avg 40 in present modern day cricket.

Test cricket hasnt chanhed since the 60's. different era argument is onoy applicable to odi
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?

it has, the 2000s was supremely flat while recent era has been extremely difficult.
 
Rajdeep said:
It is not about how much. He is a constant failure against Australia. In Australia leg of the Ashes, he is a minnow level batsman. Mind you, batting in Australia is much easier these days due to flat drop in pitches. So the fact that he has got 0 centuries there after 3 tours and 14 tests is bad like real. So he is not an ATG.
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It is a poor record without a doubt. He must try to rectify it but its not the be all and end all of cricket.

If he can score big this time around then he will have done enough to make his overall record ok.
 
Just checked, Joe Root avg 35 in Australia after playing 14 tests and 28 innings which is KL Rahul esque level stats.

How is he an ATG, let alone comparing him to the great man :ROFLMAO:
 
mominsaigol said:
Not really, it's just home sides didn't curated pitches to suit them back then
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Atleast in the big three, India used to present more sporting and batter friendly wickets while nowadays it's a dustbowl galore, England used to present far less greentops and Australian curators these days leave a generous bit of grass on wickets which accompanied by the high bounce made Australia seamer friendly.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It is a poor record without a doubt. He must try to rectify it but its not the be all and end all of cricket.

If he can score big this time around then he will have done enough to make his overall record ok.
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We will see when that happens...chances are less though as Aussies normally brings their A game against England.

Either way, Joe Root can do whatever he wants, including climb everest 3 times up and down but he will never be better than Tendulkar by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Rajdeep said:
Just checked, Joe Root avg 35 in Australia after playing 14 tests and 28 innings which is KL Rahul esque level stats.

How is he an ATG, let alone comparing him to the great man :ROFLMAO:
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This happens more among Great batters than You'd think

for example, Rahul Dravid after 11 games in South Africa averages 29 and Ponting averages 26 in India after 14 tests, it happens a bit, every great seems to have one country where they struggle.

Don't think anyone bar Viv (and maybe Sobers) in last 60 years is compareable to Sachin, he is in my top 4.

Viv Richards and Sachin Tendulkar — are they really far apart statistically?

Examing the Gap Hello, It seems that often Sachin Tendulkar and Sir Vivian Richards being a tier apart from each other is generally considered the conventional wisdom, and it makes sense considering Viv only has around 9000 runs while averaging 50 while Tendulkar has around 16000 runs while...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
 
DeadlyVenom said:
If he doesn't average 50. Then he won't be an ATG.
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For me - He can have less than 50 career avg and he can be an ATG if he gets one big series in Aus.

This 50 avg in all periods are not the same.

90s - 3 did
00s - 13 did
2010s' - 4 did

But one things has remined the same, top batsmen in any era stepped up against the top teams. Aus with Ind has been the top team of Root's era. Since he is from Eng, a big Ashes puts him in ATG league and average can be below 50.
 
atreus said:
This happens more among Great batters than You'd think

for example, Rahul Dravid after 11 games in South Africa averages 29 and Ponting averages 26 in India after 14 tests, it happens a bit, every great seems to have one country where they struggle.

Don't think anyone bar Viv (and maybe Sobers) in last 60 years is compareable to Sachin, he is in my top 4.

Viv Richards and Sachin Tendulkar — are they really far apart statistically?

Examing the Gap Hello, It seems that often Sachin Tendulkar and Sir Vivian Richards being a tier apart from each other is generally considered the conventional wisdom, and it makes sense considering Viv only has around 9000 runs while averaging 50 while Tendulkar has around 16000 runs while...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
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+1

We shouldn't be having cut off like Viv/SRT for ATG level. Ordinary in one country has been the case with many.

With Root though, he needs to have great Ashes because for Eng/Aus players, avg of 40 does not look good given players play long series so often and Root will have around 40 tests against Aus after next series in Ashes. That's half of a career of many batsmen. If Root is not even among the top 10 Ashes performer from Aus/Eng in the last 15 years, then it's an issue for how history will see Root.

He can average 49. 50 avg is a random cut off used as a short cut, but it's still a short cut. Root is not doing lots of minnow bashing and plays in a tough era of batting.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It is a poor record without a doubt. He must try to rectify it but its not the be all and end all of cricket.

If he can score big this time around then he will have done enough to make his overall record ok.
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+1 If he gets a heavy scoring series in Aus this time, his over all record will be fine.
 
Yeahhhh Buddddyyy..

My boi Joe Root scores the 100 as expected, when no pressure and batting conditions are easy.....


Now all is required to happen is the expected NZ collapse under the pressure of a huge target....
 
19 hundreds in the last four years is madness. With 3000 runs in his last 35 tests, his career has a very similar arc to Brian Lara's: a very good start, a mediocre middle, and then a strong resurgence. hes also just overtaken don bradman, and matt hayden, and is third on the list of most hundreds in winning causes.

watching all the usual contingent starting to disclaim his performances and record is hilarious, if he does go on to break tendus record the run up across social media will be nothing short of hilarious.
 
mominsaigol said:
Indian posters need to stop downplaying. What bradman achieved is something o player has ever achieved.

I was hoping steve smith would achieve it in tests since for 3 years in a row he was heading towards that trajectory bit he didn't last long enough and fizzled out sadly.
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Bradman did it great but he was a great among 20 odd good players thats all. Acknowledge him. Call him goat whatever. But he doesnt come in debate in modern cricket that's it.
 
Hope he gets few tons in next Ashes and Brooks is also scoring. It will set up Ashes nicely.

On topic, hoping root goes past SRT's runs tally.
 
Test runs in 4th innings - when the batting is most difficult:
Pitch is at worst behavior.
Pressure is the highest because.... you are either trying to win the test or save the test.


1733630652853.png
 
Hyder said:
Bradman did it great but he was a great among 20 odd good players thats all. Acknowledge him. Call him goat whatever. But he doesnt come in debate in modern cricket that's it.
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Yes he does. He 200% does.
 
yes and close the thread. so what if he does lmao. who cares.
joe is a great player. so was sachin. it is what it is.
i do rate sachin above root though overall
 
What a player! It's guys like him, Smith and Williamson who are still keeping Test cricket a thing for delight.
 
atreus said:
I'm Relaxed

Nah, he'll follow the path of Viv, nobody wants him to follow the path of Sachin to that many runs.

:afridi
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LOL, Viv had an atrocious last 3 years of his career. So much that Imran Khan himself wrote in an article that he should have retired in 1988 instead of 1991.
 
Mainul said:
Ok. I saw records of 2021, my mistake. Root scored 1708 in 2021.
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that was one of the most absurd years ngl, ball moving hoopes in England, English openers getting out consistently for 3/30, ATG bowling and still 1708 runs, if he got some support he would've shattered Yousuf's record
 
Hitman said:
LOL, Viv had an atrocious last 3 years of his career. So much that Imran Khan himself wrote in an article that he should have retired in 1988 instead of 1991.
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don't really know how this connects to what I said, Everyone knows Viv was cooked in 89-90 and only played because he was the last spiritual embodiment of Windies Cricket's dominance.
 
atreus said:
that was one of the most absurd years ngl, ball moving hoopes in England, English openers getting out consistently for 3/30, ATG bowling and still 1708 runs, if he got some support he would've shattered Yousuf's record
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But but but “home conditions” 🤡 @Ab Fan
 
atreus said:
I'm Relaxed

Nah, he'll follow the path of Viv, nobody wants him to follow the path of Sachin to that many runs.

:afridi
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Well he won't follow Vivs path because he can't wreck bowlers like Viv did on tough wickets.

:afridi
 
Anyway here's my take on root.

I don't believe he's > Sachin as a player however with that being said, Some people do underrated him. He's clearly the best player in test cricket atm and one of the best of all time.

Any test player with 36 centuries + close to 13K test runs is a class test act.
 
atreus said:
don't really know how this connects to what I said, Everyone knows Viv was cooked in 89-90 and only played because he was the last spiritual embodiment of Windies Cricket's dominance.
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Thereby deliberately keeping a young upcomer Brian Lara on the bench? Lara is 4 years older than Sachin, and yet had to keep waiting because a washed up Viv refused to retire despite very little output.
 
mominsaigol said:
Anyway here's my take on root.

I don't believe he's > Sachin as a player however with that being said, Some people do underrated him. He's clearly the best player in test cricket atm and one of the best of all time.

Any test player with 36 centuries + close to 13K test runs is a class test act.
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Yeah this, Sachin is clearly better but critiquing Root for making runs in favourable conditions too is not something you can do when Sachin, Ponting, Lara all did it, it's just so hypocritical.
 
Hitman said:
Thereby deliberately keeping a young upcomer Brian Lara on the bench? Lara is 4 years older than Sachin, and yet had to keep waiting because a washed up Viv refused to retire despite very little output.
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not really? The selectors just didn't pick him much, Windies team in early 90s was the equivalent of modern Australian team, a lot of the batters were old but for some reason even the likes of Phil Simmons and Gus logie were picked ahead of Lara, Lara and Viv easily could've co-existed but didn't as I don't think Windies team rated Lara's ability as a batter against pure pace until his 277 in Sydney
 
atreus said:
England is flat? do you even watch Cricket?
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Dude, you are not listening to me when i keep saying I am just trolling the Pakistanis here that are latching onto Root as their next hope as their previous hopes like Ponting, Kallis etc all let em down...

Root is a class player, I don't disagree, he is not in SRTs class
 
Romali_rotti said:
Dude, you are not listening to me when i keep saying I am just trolling the Pakistanis here that are latching onto Root as their next hope as their previous hopes like Ponting, Kallis etc all let em down...

Root is a class player, I don't disagree, he is not in SRTs class
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Ok...
 
atreus said:
Yeah this, Sachin is clearly better but critiquing Root for making runs in favourable conditions too is not something you can do when Sachin, Ponting, Lara all did it, it's just so hypocritical.
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He didn't just make them in favourable conditions. He's performed across the world.

So far he's only struggled in Aus and in pakistan, however any batter would have struggled on those 10 day pitches.

Pakistan got lucky that they got to bat first twice and that England clearly didn't prepare well. England spinners like rehan Ahmed were horrible and couldn't use the conditons well. And even then they made mince meat out of Pakistan with the exception of saud shakeel who's the best test player and best player of spin for pakistan atm.

Any batter including Sachin would struggle on those pitches especially when Sachin has struggled in pakistan on far easier pitches.

Again Sachin is better but root really only has struggled in aus and on a 10 day doctored pitch. Otherwise he's performed well in every country atm.
 
Mamoon said:
But but but “home conditions” 🤡 @Ab Fan
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I hope he hits a few tons next Ashes and improve his tons record vs top teams. Most ATGs go big vs top teams away from home but Root has zero ton in Australia. Guess how many Kohli got? 7 already. :vk :root
 
Ab Fan said:
I hope he hits a few tons next Ashes and improve his tons record vs top teams. Most ATGs go big vs top teams away from home but Root has zero ton in Australia. Guess how many Kohli got? 7 already. :vk :root
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But who told you that Kohli is an ATG Test batsman? Only in the delusional world of Indians fans can a #4 be an ATG with a 47-48 average and less than 10k runs at the age of 36.
 
Mamoon said:
But who told you that Kohli is an ATG Test batsman?

Only in the delusional world of Indians fans can a #4 be an ATG with a 47-48 average and less than 10k runs at the age of 36.
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I don’t agree with that either. I am just stating facts who got how many tons.

Few months ago a poster used to claim, “He is GOAT Asian Test captain with 38 or 40 wins.” Maybe you should ask him again? 🤔 :inti
 
Ab Fan said:
I hope he hits a few tons next Ashes and improve his tons record vs top teams. Most ATGs go big vs top teams away from home but Root has zero ton in Australia. Guess how many Kohli got? 7 already. :vk :root
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The fact you put kohli > Root as a test batsmen in your previous comment on that other thread shows your lack of knowledge about cricket.

Being better in one country doesn't make you a better test player by any means.

Furthermore Root's career is heading in an upwards trajectory while Kohli's career is going down by the moment.

Kohli in 5 years has only scored 3 centuries in test while avg 25.

Root on the other hand has improved his avg in every country with the exception of Aus.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
At the moment 1 run from equals 1 tear from an Indian and it's difficult to predict whether the runs will stop first or the tears will.
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Root has cemented himself as the best test of this era.

For him to surpass Sachin all he needs to do is raise that avg in aus to 40. Then not only will his overseas stats be comparable to Sachin, His weakest stat of 40 avg in aus will be > Sachin's weakest stat of 40 avg in pakistan.

Mainly because averaging 40 in very life life Asian conditons for an atg batter is worse then avg 40 in aus for an English batsmen.

And ofcourse if he surpasses sachin's run tally as well then case closed.

For now Sachin is ahead but Root is closing the gap very very quickly. And you can tell since Indian posters are having a panic attack.

Anytime Indian posters are panicked you get genuis downgraded comments from @Ab Fan who thinks kohli > Root in tests due to aus or @jeeteshssaxena who think Travis head a guy who's owned India in multiple countries is apprantly just a htb 🤣🤣.

Travis head and Root are living in india's head rent free atm.
 
atreus said:
that was one of the most absurd years ngl, ball moving hoopes in England, English openers getting out consistently for 3/30, ATG bowling and still 1708 runs, if he got some support he would've shattered Yousuf's record
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You have to take number of tests into consideration here. Root played 4 tests more than Yousuf yet felt short .
 
England batter Joe Root on Saturday etched his name in the history books as he surpassed Indian legend Rahul Dravid to become the fourth batter in history to register 100 scores of 50+ runs in Test cricket.

Most 50+ Scores in Test Cricket​

  • Sachin Tendulkar (India) – 119
  • Jacques Kallis (South Africa) – 103
  • Ricky Ponting (Australia) – 103
  • Joe Root (England) – 100
  • Rahul Dravid (India) – 99
 
I have made peace with the fact that Joe Root is certain to go past Tendulkar in all time test runs. He’s a fantastic batter who has improved with time rather than regressing and is playing a very audacious and fearless brand of cricket at the peak of his career, getting to test centuries with reverse ramp shots and what not. His record speaks for himself, he’s already an ATG and once he goes past Tendulkar he will be a legit contender for a Mount Rushmore in the modern era and in the conversation for one of the very best batters to ever play test cricket.

I am seriously reevaluating my ATG test XI and the closer he gets to the top of the mountain the stronger his case gets in getting a spot there permanently.

Right now my ATG batting order :-

Gavaskar
Bradman
Richards
Tendulkar
Lara
Sobers
Gilchrist

In this list, positions of Lara and Sobers are slightly dispensable.
 
my ATG batting lineup is

1. Sir Leonard Hutton (the Best English batter in history)
2. Sir Jack Hobbs (the Greatest English batter in history)
3. Sir Donald Bradman (The Greatest)
4. Sachin Tendulkar (the most tested and proven batter of all time)
5. Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards (The Greatest after Bradman)
6. Sir Garfield Sobers (The Greatest all rounder)

Almost impossible for Root to replace any of them ngl, unless he has a 3-4 hundred Ashes and a 3-4 hundred series in India, it's almost impossible.
 
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