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Will Joe Root beat Sachin Tendulkar's record in Tests for most runs?

mominsaigol said:
That isn't my argument. I'm not peddling a narrative that root is > Sachin.

I have stated time and again Sachin > Root.

Its just the arguments that some posters are making against root is hilarious.

And btw I am not a fan of England cricket or root. I like him but he doesnt hold a special place in my heart that head or Smith does.

I am as neutral as possible, and im telling you root has been just as good as sachin these past few years excluding Aus.

And tbh his record is almost equal to sachin vs Aus when mcgrath played. Mchrath turned sachin into a no 11 batter.

Root is hindered by a poor start to his career unfortunately.

These past few years hes a 55 avg batter with a 40+ avg in every conditon?

How on earth is he below sachin, Lara, Steve Smith, Ponting, Dravid excluding the 1 or 2 criteria that I have mentioned.

He is already now pretty much = to Ponting?

Both avg 51 now, both have similar run counts and similar overseas records, actually root is better as 35 avg vs Aus is > 26 avg in india for ponting.

Ponting has a better conversion rate though.

Overall he is = to Ponting now as a test batter but below Smith, Lara and Sachin at present.
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Fair enough
 
mominsaigol said:
That isn't my argument. I'm not peddling a narrative that root is > Sachin.

I have stated time and again Sachin > Root.

Its just the arguments that some posters are making against root is hilarious.

And btw I am not a fan of England cricket or root. I like him but he doesnt hold a special place in my heart that head or Smith does.

I am as neutral as possible, and im telling you root has been just as good as sachin these past few years excluding Aus.

And tbh his record is almost equal to sachin vs Aus when mcgrath played. Mchrath turned sachin into a no 11 batter.

Root is hindered by a poor start to his career unfortunately.

These past few years hes a 55 avg batter with a 40+ avg in every conditon?

How on earth is he below sachin, Lara, Steve Smith, Ponting, Dravid excluding the 1 or 2 criteria that I have mentioned.

He is already now pretty much = to Ponting?

Both avg 51 now, both have similar run counts and similar overseas records, actually root is better as 35 avg vs Aus is > 26 avg in india for ponting.

Ponting has a better conversion rate though.

Overall he is = to Ponting now as a test batter but below Smith, Lara and Sachin at present.
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Btw I rate root really high.

He is easily the best ever English bat.
 
Bhaijaan said:
When you are a level below, you become part of a larger group of players as the levels keep going lower.

Its like :-

Bradman
2-5
6-15
16-30
31-50

Being a level below Bradman automatically makes you Top 5.

Being level below Sachin/Lara/Viv automatically makes you Top 15.

Being a level below Ponting automatically makes you Top 30.
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Lol no, Top 30 means top 30. You fill it out like this

1) Bradman
2) xxxx
3) xxxx

Until you reach 30.

Based of what is Root a LEVEL BELOW Ponting.

Lets debate root vs Ponting rn. Btw I have them as =.

Lets debate this rn
 
kron said:
Btw I rate root really high.

He is easily the best ever English bat.
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Ponting will obviously have a greater status then root because he was both an ATG odi and test player.

However in test alone they are currently equal or maybe Ponting is slightly superior atm but the gap isnt that high anymore.

Their is nothing wrong with what I said. Root is the no 1 greatest English batter post WW2 era. It makes sense that he would essentially be in the realm of Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and many others and have the possibility of eventually reaching lara, Sachin, Smith etc etc.

Whether he reaches it or not, I do not know, but he has defo reached Ponting level.

He's easily > Rahul Dravid as well. Surpasses him in every metric except for overall AVG. Hence of people put Dravid > I don't mind.

But he's in this tier.
 
mominsaigol said:
Indian fans will say anything and everything at this point. Who cares what they think.

Here are Sachin's averages against top bowlers of his era.

23 vs James Anderson
11 vs Mcgrath

Avg 36 vs Australia whenever mcgrath played, Avg 32 in pakistan whenever wasim played, avg 32 in sa whenever Donald played.

Sachin only averaged 70 vs Aus when mchrath was absent.

he also has a pathetic head to head record vs Ambrose and many others. He only has a good record vs Warne.

Even against Murli he Avg 32.

@Rajdeep @Devadwal @kron @Bhaijaan @Sachin fan @jeeteshssaxena @Ab Fan


^^ Take note. You guys claim bumrah > Mcgrath and call Root a temu Tenda yet Root avg 30 vs Bumrah while Sachin pretty averages either similar numbers Against other top bowlers or Avg far far worse vs Wasim, Donald's, Ambrose, Mcgrath etc etc.

He has one golden run vs Wasim in odi in 2003 and managed to own waqar younis over and over again.

The fact that people claim sachin owned Akhtar and use it as an achievment when Akhtar is one of the worst test bowlers of all time is hilarious
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You know correlation is not causation right? For example in matches against Pakistan Sachin barely got out to big bowlers, he got run out of out to Razak. Similarly how many times has McGrath actually got him out?

You know cricket is with XI players right? Just because McGrath was in the team doesn't automatically show his low average is BECAUSE of him.

I am a data scientist dude, I can do this all day.
 
Sachin fan said:
You know correlation is not causation right? For example in matches against Pakistan Sachin barely got out to big bowlers, he got run out of out to Razak. Similarly how many times has McGrath actually got him out?

You know cricket is with XI players right? Just because McGrath was in the team doesn't automatically show his low average is BECAUSE of him.

I am a data scientist dude, I can do this all day.
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Data scientist should be able to explain why sachin avg 11 against mcgrath :vk2 and 23 vs Anderson.

Your reply didnt address anything.

Sachin avg 11 directly vs mcgrath and 36 against Aus when mcgrath was playing.

He avg 23 directly against anderson. 32 directly vs murli.

These are head to head, not sachin vs team.

Go on data scientist, lets do this all day
 
11th times GOAT Bumrah dismissed Temu Sachin in test cricket , Most by any bowler along with Cummins. :kp
 
mominsaigol said:
Ponting will obviously have a greater status then root because he was both an ATG odi and test player.

However in test alone they are currently equal or maybe Ponting is slightly superior atm but the gap isnt that high anymore.

Their is nothing wrong with what I said. Root is the no 1 greatest English batter post WW2 era. It makes sense that he would essentially be in the realm of Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and many others and have the possibility of eventually reaching lara, Sachin, Smith etc etc.

Whether he reaches it or not, I do not know, but he has defo reached Ponting level.

He's easily > Rahul Dravid as well. Surpasses him in every metric except for overall AVG. Hence of people put Dravid > I don't mind.

But he's in this tier.
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Nha he is definitely better than dravid

Root only needs to tick off the Aus in his checklist
Away from home

Then he could be in smith level tier honestly. Just a touch under smith

Smith is goat though
 
mominsaigol said:
Data scientist should be able to explain why sachin avg 11 against mcgrath :vk2 and 23 vs Anderson.

Your reply didnt address anything.

Sachin avg 11 directly vs mcgrath and 36 against Aus when mcgrath was playing.

He avg 23 directly against anderson. 32 directly vs murli.

These are head to head, not sachin vs team.

Go on data scientist, lets do this all day
Click to expand...
Share a link where these averages are calculated, lets see how true this is.
 
pillionrider said:
Yo. What are we all arguing for then :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
We are arguing why some arguments to downplay root are bloody ridiculous.

Myth 1: Sachin performed against better bowlers.

Truth; Sachin avg 11 vs mcgrath, 23 vs Anderson, avg 32 against Pakistan and sa anytime Donald and wasim featured, avg below 20 vs Ambrose. Avg 32 vs Murli.

He has only ever butchered warne and performed well against him. Root avg > 40 against most bowlers as well but obviously top bowlers like Cummins and Bumrah has his no

Myth 2: Root scores soft runs

Sachin has 0, I repeat 0 memorable test wins. Lara has more even laxman has more. He was consistent but wasnt a one hit match winner. He always needed batters at the other end to perform.

Myth 3: Root isnt even Ponting level let alone Sachin.

Root has a 51 avg that keeps rising. From 45 to 51 now. His record across countries is > Ponting. Pinting has a better conversion rate and higher avg.

Ponting is slightly ahead atm, but they are in the same ballpark.

Root needs to get his avg to 53 and Avg to 40 vs Aus., if he does that + Manages to surpass tenda's run tally, it stands to reason he will be > Tenda.
 
Test Batsman ranking by tier:-

Tier 1- Sachin, Lara, Smith

Tier 1.5 - Ponting, Viv( tests), Gavaskar, Sangakkara, Chappell

Tier 2 - Dravid, Kallis( batting), Root, Miandad, Border

Tier 2.5 - G Smith, Hayden, ABDV, YK, Cook, Greenidge, Crowe

Tier 3 - Williamson, Sehwag, Chanderpaul, KP, Amla, Kohli, Inzy

Some may like it, some won’t. I will stick to my rankings. :inti
 
Joe Root is the third batter to score a hat-trick of Test hundreds at Lord's, joining Jack Hobbs (1912-1926) and Michael Vaughan (2004-2005) 🔥
 
Ab Fan said:
Test Batsman ranking by tier:-

Tier 1- Sachin, Lara, Smith

Tier 1.5 - Ponting, Viv( tests), Gavaskar, Sangakkara, Chappell

Tier 2 - Dravid, Kallis( batting), Root, Miandad, Border

Tier 2.5 - G Smith, Hayden, ABDV, YK, Cook, Greenidge, Crowe

Tier 3 - Williamson, Sehwag, Chanderpaul, KP, Amla, Kohli, Inzy

Some may like it, some won’t. I will stick to my rankings. :inti
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Lol you made 2.5 tier, just to accommodate Kohli at 3...what a genius
 
Are bhai, Kohli has retired and sitting out perfectly. What has this to do with him? Nothing to do with any specific player here except Root because this is a thread on Root.
The Bald Eagle said:
Lol you made 2.5 tier, just to accommodate Kohli at 3...what a genius
Click to expand...
 
Ab Fan said:
Test Batsman ranking by tier:-

Tier 1- Sachin, Lara, Smith

Tier 1.5 - Ponting, Viv( tests), Gavaskar, Sangakkara, Chappell

Tier 2 - Dravid, Kallis( batting), Root, Miandad, Border

Tier 2.5 - G Smith, Hayden, ABDV, YK, Cook, Greenidge, Crowe

Tier 3 - Williamson, Sehwag, Chanderpaul, KP, Amla, Kohli, Inzy

Some may like it, some won’t. I will stick to my rankings. :inti
Click to expand...

I am surprised you didn't go for Tier 0.01, Tier 0.02, Tier 0.03 etc.

:qdkcheeky
 
Root might not be able to break Sachin's record but he still has been the top 3 players in test cricket of this era.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Root might not be able to break Sachin's record but he still has been the top 3 players in test cricket of this era.
Click to expand...
Top 5 test players of this era:-

1. Steve Smith
2. Pat Cummins
3. Jasprit Bumrah
4. Joe Root
5. Ravichandran Ashwin

Anderson is retired so not considered.
 
mominsaigol said:
We are arguing why some arguments to downplay root are bloody ridiculous.

Myth 1: Sachin performed against better bowlers.

Truth; Sachin avg 11 vs mcgrath, 23 vs Anderson, avg 32 against Pakistan and sa anytime Donald and wasim featured, avg below 20 vs Ambrose. Avg 32 vs Murli.

He has only ever butchered warne and performed well against him. Root avg > 40 against most bowlers as well but obviously top bowlers like Cummins and Bumrah has his no

Myth 2: Root scores soft runs

Sachin has 0, I repeat 0 memorable test wins. Lara has more even laxman has more. He was consistent but wasnt a one hit match winner. He always needed batters at the other end to perform.

Myth 3: Root isnt even Ponting level let alone Sachin.

Root has a 51 avg that keeps rising. From 45 to 51 now. His record across countries is > Ponting. Pinting has a better conversion rate and higher avg.

Ponting is slightly ahead atm, but they are in the same ballpark.

Root needs to get his avg to 53 and Avg to 40 vs Aus., if he does that + Manages to surpass tenda's run tally, it stands to reason he will be > Tenda.
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All your data is wrong, you just admitted that when Devadwal pointed it out, as soon as you started using stats I knew something must be afoot.
 
mominsaigol said:
No my data is correct except Sachin vs Mcgrath. Which was 22.22

Keep crying
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As I have already said you and stats don’t ho together.
Cricmetrics has no records pre 2000, so no way to calculate player vs player record.

As the stats you presented are wrong, your premise itself is fraudulent. No need of further analysis.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
As I have already said you and stats don’t ho together.
Cricmetrics has no records pre 2000, so no way to calculate player vs player record.

As the stats you presented are wrong, your premise itself is fraudulent. No need of further analysis.
Click to expand...
The other stands of Sachin avg 36 when mcgrath played and 22.22 vs Mcgrath himself, 32 vs SA anytime Donaldson played, 32 vs Murli himself, 23 vs Anderson himself are not fradulent.

I can link the article. Secondly I wasnt wrong about sachin avg 11 vs Mcgrath. I was only half wrong as it didnt calculate pre 2000.

The fact that Sachin avg 11 vs mcgrath from 2000 and post 2000 is hilariously poor.

Root still avg 30 vs Bumrah compared to Sachin avg 22.22 vs amcgrath and 11 post 2000.

Don't always assume the worst in people like you do with me. Not everyone is biased. I have always tried to be neutral despite my hatred towards a few posters.
 
mominsaigol said:
The other stands of Sachin avg 36 when mcgrath played and 22.22 vs Mcgrath himself, 32 vs SA anytime Donaldson played, 32 vs Murli himself, 23 vs Anderson himself are not fradulent.

I can link the article. Secondly I wasnt wrong about sachin avg 11 vs Mcgrath. I was only half wrong as it didnt calculate pre 2000.

The fact that Sachin avg 11 vs mcgrath from 2000 and post 2000 is hilariously poor.

Root still avg 30 vs Bumrah compared to Sachin avg 22.22 vs amcgrath and 11 post 2000.

Don't always assume the worst in people like you do with me. Not everyone is biased. I have always tried to be neutral despite my hatred towards a few posters.
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IIRC Ijaz Ahmed and Abdul Razzaq have a very good record against McGrath .... so therefore they are better batsmen than SRT according to your logic ?
 
uppercut said:
IIRC Ijaz Ahmed and Abdul Razzaq have a very good record against McGrath .... so therefore they are better batsmen than SRT according to your logic ?
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No, never stated it. But ig indians need some strawmanning to try to get a hold off Me :vk2
 
Devadwal said:
Sachin test hundred in australia - 7

Temu Sachin test hundred in australia - Anda , Zero 🤣🤣🤣

:kp
Click to expand...
Sachin vs Pakistan = rubbish average of 42 🤡

Root vs Pakistan = average of 53

Sachin vs weak English attacks = average 51

Root vs “GOAT” Indian attack = average of 57
 
Mamoon said:
Sachin vs Pakistan = rubbish average of 42 🤡

Root vs Pakistan = average of 53

Sachin vs weak English attacks = average 51

Root vs “GOAT” Indian attack = average of 57
Click to expand...
Sachin doesnt avg 40 or above against any good bowler. Post 2000 he averages 5 vs Mcgrath. Overall averages 22.22, Against Anderson he averages 23 total.

He was damn near useless against good bowlers excluding warne who played well against.
 
mominsaigol said:
No, never stated it. But ig indians need some strawmanning to try to get a hold off Me :vk2
Click to expand...

Well thats what is implied when you use ludicrous stats to run down great players. So if you believe in using that idiotic logic you should also accept that Ijaz and Razzak are better than Tendulkar
 
uppercut said:
Well thats what is implied when you use ludicrous stats to run down great players. So if you believe in using that idiotic logic you should also accept that Ijaz and Razzak are better than Tendulkar
Click to expand...
What a moronic statement. One that takes context out of the equation. Then again am not surprised, making a fool out of yourself is common place for an indian.

Razzaq and Ijaz dont have a record anywhere close to Root or Sachin.

Root however has been targeted by indian propaganda with constant fake upon fake myths being peddled around him.

Root averages 50 and or in every country that doesnt include pitch doctoring excluding aus which I will get to in a bit.

The 3 countries where he avg 45, 47 and 24 vs Pakistan, India and Bangladesh took place on spin doctored pitches. No ik indians will deny this 24/7 in order to pretend that jadeja and Ashwin are goats bit even satner who isnt even a test class bowler did ridiculously well in such pitches similar to how warrican did in pakistan.

Bangladesh is 24 but due to only playing 2 matches vs Bangladesh on pitches where even Steve smith averages 27 in those 2 pitches.

Australia is the only issue where Root has genuinely been poor which is why sachin pulls ahead.

However if root rectifies that then he is > Sachin end of story as his avg will automatically increase > sachin's 53 if he manages to get a 40avg vs Aus.

You guys have peddled nonsense narratives about root being a softie when

A) Sachin avg 32 vs Sa when Donald played, avg 32 vs Pakistan when wasim played, avg 22.22 vs Mcgrath and avg 36 vs Aus when mcgrath played. Ironically sachin avg 5 vs Mcgrath after 2000.

Indians peddled this weird narrative on sachin vs Mcgrath being some sort of rivalry when it is so unbelievably one sided in test cricket its hilarious.

Not to mention avg 23 vs Anderson, 32 vs murli, 20 vs Ambrose etc etc.

Sachin has only ever owned Warne, otherwise he is flop against top tier bowlers of his ers while root still has managed to somewhat manage bumrah and Cummins respectively at 28 and 30 avg.

He has owned every other bowler of his era.

Ijaz may not be > Sachin, But he Ironically averages 50 against Aus in the first half of his career and 42 overall with mcgrath included while Sachin was awful against aus whenever mchrath was on.

Credit to sachin for avg 70 vs aus without mcgrath
 
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