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3rd Test: Day 3 scoreboard and discussion thread [26/03/05]

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marooned is right, amir shoail was skipper for s.africa tour. A tour i went and watched in s.africa.

latif and akram didnt return till the final test and werent in original sqaud.
 
Marooned said:
ggm said:
You can't blame the faults of other bowlers on Wasim and Waqar. You can tell the young bowlers what they should be doing, but it ultimatly comes down to the bowlers themselves. What they do with advice is down to them.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have not blaming them but I don't think it's fair to say that they provided us with heaps of bowlers and Shoaib didn't.
Click to expand...

We are not saying that Wasim and Waqar PROVIDED us with the fast bowlers. The guided and groomed the youngsters. Thus the yiungsters became better bowlers and peformed well. Shoaib hasn't beared the torch. Thats the bottom line
 
"I m not sure how much he backed Shahid Nazir. He barely played for Pakistan even when Wasim was captain."

Nazir made his LOI debut under Wasim in 1996. He then played against Zimbabwe and N.Z when Wasim was captain. He played in the LOIs in Australia under Wasim. wasim then lost the captanicy due to injury, and Nazir lost his place in the side for the S.A series in Pakistan when Saeed was captain. Wasim was made captain for the next series against the W.I. and he recalled Nazir back to the side. Then Wasim lost the captaincy, and guess what: Nazir lose his place in the side.

The next time Nazir was required was again when Wasim got back the captaincy for the India tour. Nazir played an Asian Test Championship match and was RECALLED to LOIs squad for trips to India and Sharjah.

Wasim would not captain for much longer, and that is when Nazir was dropped totally.

So there can be no doubt Wasim backed him more than any other captain.
 
waisay didnt know you entertained such thoughts about wasim marooned, im deeply wounded :))
off to bari you go
 
octavian said:
Marooned said:
ggm said:
You can't blame the faults of other bowlers on Wasim and Waqar. You can tell the young bowlers what they should be doing, but it ultimatly comes down to the bowlers themselves. What they do with advice is down to them.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have not blaming them but I don't think it's fair to say that they provided us with heaps of bowlers and Shoaib didn't.
Click to expand...

We are not saying that Wasim and Waqar PROVIDED us with the fast bowlers. The guided and groomed the youngsters. Thus the yiungsters became better bowlers and peformed well. Shoaib hasn't beared the torch. Thats the bottom line
Click to expand...

Keeping Shoaib and his talents aside, I can't think of a fast bowler who has been groomed by Wasim/Waqar who has had considerable success in test cricket. Can you?
 
ive said it before that instead of people suggesting wasim should be coach, id rather he was hired as a selector for the bowling dept
 
latest --> India 222/2

400 likely here atleast by close off play
 
marooned, it has to be noted that the bowler's progress depends on the bowler not his mentor
 
"I can't think of a fast bowler who has been groomed by Wasim/Waqar who has had considerable success in test cricket."

That says more about the bowlers, than it does about Wasim and Waqar.
 
No one in the W.I. blames Ambrose and Walsh for the current plight of the W.I. bowlers.
 
i already gave you the list marooned. Do u want it again ??

Some people got injured. Wasim lost his captaincy quite frequently. and some bowlers were ignored when he was not there.

Imran also backed a lot of bowlers but only 2, WAsim and Waqar proved to be world class. You can not produce and army of fast bowlers.

what you can do is make the available players effective. thats exactly what the 2 W's did. Answer this if you can why there has been a sudden decline in out fast bowling resources since the 2 W's retired ?????

We only have one world calss fast bowlers Shoaib, Who by hus own words, learnt bowling from Wasim!!
 
I don't know tahai, Inzi should've brought him in a while ago
 
One thing that Wasim would've done is bowled a few overs with afridi...
 
afridi is like one of those partnership breakers..we nede him now..before these two get too comfy..especially shewag
 
ggm said:
"I can't think of a fast bowler who has been groomed by Wasim/Waqar who has had considerable success in test cricket."

That says more about the bowlers, than it does about Wasim and Waqar.
Click to expand...

You guys are missing the point here. Octa said Wasim/Waqar had groomed fast bowlers for Pakistan while Shoaib is the one who didn't. I replied that I don't see many fast bowlers left behind by Wasim/Waqar and it is unfair to blame Shoaib (for everything under the sun). This is not a criticism of either.
 
wat u don't get it MIG? i was just trying to spur some curiosity while this match is headed for a draw
 
Yes I would not blame Shoaib for the current situation of Pakistani bowlers either.
 
i already gave you the list marooned. Do u want it again ??
Click to expand...

What list? I don't see one successful test fast bowler other than Shoaib.

Some people got injured. Wasim lost his captaincy quite frequently. and some bowlers were ignored when he was not there.Imran also backed a lot of bowlers but only 2, WAsim and Waqar proved to be world class. You can not produce and army of fast bowlers.
Click to expand...

good point. Why do you blame Shoaib then who wasn't even captain?

what you can do is make the available players effective. thats exactly what the 2 W's did. Answer this if you can why there has been a sudden decline in out fast bowling resources since the 2 W's retired ?????
Click to expand...

Because they were the bowlers and have retired. Also, I think the decline started much before they retired in test cricket. Shoaib was the only bowler we relied on since 2000.
 
sami was bowling so well- why did inzi take him out?
 
Marooned u r missing the point actually.

Wasim and Waqar had learnt a lot from imran. When they were playing they were noy only masters themselves but also the guided the youngsters very well. In doing so they passed on the legacy.

Shoaib is the only world class bowler we rigth now. He owes a lot of his success to the guidance of 2 W's. Sadly he doesn't do the same . Take responsibiloity, guide youngsters and be a role model. As were Imran and after that the 2 W's.

In his presence all the youngsters seem clueless. Same was not the case when 2 W's were around. After Imran left us with the 2 W's. 2 W's left us with Shoaib. Will shoiab groom someone??? No!!!!
 
because kashif, inzi shouldn't tire sami out totally, cuz we will need him later on..when a new batsman comes to the crease or when the current bowlers get tired
 
Get sami back into the attack and target VVS's pads with reverse in-swing.
 
octavian said:
Marooned u r missing the point actually.

Wasim and Waqar had learnt a lot from imran. When they were playing they were noy only masters themselves but also the guided the youngsters very well. In doing so they passed on the legacy.

Shoaib is the only world class bowler we rigth now. He owes a lot of his success to the guidance of 2 W's. Sadly he doesn't do the same . Take responsibiloity, guide youngsters and be a role model. As were Imran and after that the 2 W's.

In his presence all the youngsters seem clueless. Same was not the case when 2 W's were around. After Imran left us with the 2 W's. 2 W's left us with Shoaib. Will shoiab groom someone??? No!!!!
Click to expand...

very sensible observation!!!!
seniority requres much more than a demand for captaincy..
 
should be sami and afridi now against vvs laxative man
 
octavian said:
Marooned u r missing the point actually.

Wasim and Waqar had learnt a lot from imran. When they were playing they were noy only masters themselves but also the guided the youngsters very well. In doing so they passed on the legacy.

Shoaib is the only world class bowler we rigth now. He owes a lot of his success to the guidance of 2 W's. Sadly he doesn't do the same . Take responsibiloity, guide youngsters and be a role model. As were Imran and after that the 2 W's.

In his presence all the youngsters seem clueless. Same was not the case when 2 W's were around. After Imran left us with the 2 W's. 2 W's left us with Shoaib. Will shoiab groom someone??? No!!!!
Click to expand...

Shoaib was a huge talent who comes about once in a while and I think he would have made it whether or not the Ws were around. What makes you think Sami (the only bowler to consistently play for Pakistan since Wc 2003) wants to be 'groomed' by Shoaib? Who else can he groom? Asif who played once before disappearing? Or Riaz who played a game? Khalil? And do they even have the talent?

Had Shabbir and Gul not been injured and had continued success would you credit Shoaib for them?

Btw for your info Shoaib is supposed to be Irshad's 'mentor'.
 
nooo sami !!! inzi are u doing ???

i want to see sami come in and bowl some yorkers to get laxman and gangs out quickly.
 
Marooned said:
octavian said:
Marooned u r missing the point actually.

Wasim and Waqar had learnt a lot from imran. When they were playing they were noy only masters themselves but also the guided the youngsters very well. In doing so they passed on the legacy.

Shoaib is the only world class bowler we rigth now. He owes a lot of his success to the guidance of 2 W's. Sadly he doesn't do the same . Take responsibiloity, guide youngsters and be a role model. As were Imran and after that the 2 W's.

In his presence all the youngsters seem clueless. Same was not the case when 2 W's were around. After Imran left us with the 2 W's. 2 W's left us with Shoaib. Will shoiab groom someone??? No!!!!
Click to expand...

Shoaib was a huge talent who comes about once in a while and I think he would have made it whether or not the Ws were around. What makes you think Sami (the only bowler to consistently play for Pakistan since Wc 2003) wants to be 'groomed' by Shoaib? Who else can he groom? Asif who played once before disappearing? Or Riaz who played a game? Khalil? And do they even have the talent?

Had Shabbir and Gul not been injured and had continued success would you credit Shoaib for them?

Btw for your info Shoaib is supposed to be Irshad's 'mentor'.
Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that If same had played under 2 W's or Imran , he would have been a class act by now. Go watch Samis bowling clips when he was playing under Waqar.

Who is Irshad ? The gus not even in "A" team yet.
 
Sanjay Manjrekar = Afridi fastest ball is equal to average speed of Irfan Pathan -124 ks
 
This is a superb innings from Sehwag. Played some incredible shots.
 
badxhah said:
Sanjay Manjrekar = Afridi fastest ball is equal to average speed of Irfan Pathan -124 ks
Click to expand...



:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

quote of the series
 
Sami did play under Waqar with similar results to what he has now. Secondly, I believe he considers Shoaib his rival thus there is no way Shoaib can be blamed for not 'grooming' him. It is more the current tendency to put all the blame - for everything under the sun - on Shoaib Akhter.

Irshad isn't in the A team and that is Shoaib's fault too?
 
i can't..the remaining batsmen can't support..Inshallah vvs and gaaaangoooli will get out soon
 
Oooh, this is a testing over from Arshad
 
Afridi does really well to keep up his reputation as partnership breaker....
have been really very rare moments when he was called for the job and was unable to break a well set partnership....
 
yep afridi always seems to get key wickets at key points of the match- thats why he is so valuable as a bowler !!
 
you only have yourself to blame mona. I was imaging you fell asleep with your mouth open in fron of the tv, which usually is the case with people who fall asleep accidentally :p
 
hopefully this is samis last ever test match... despite some good effort hes simply not good enuf!
 
Ah Marooned, completely forgot about our abundant reserves.

To hell with Sami, I say!
 
idk why inzi isn't bringing sami back in- arshad isn't looking like he's gonna get a wicket !!
 
Sage said:
AJ, who would you suggest replacing Sami with?
Click to expand...

Name Mat O M R W Best Ave Econ SR 5 10
Sami 21 754.3 129 2597 54 5-36 48.09 3.44 83.8 2 0

akthar, shabbir and gul will be fit soon

id even give shahid nazir ago in tests...

21 test and an average of nearly 50 is $hit... sami shud neva play agen!

also this hes not be guided, hes been unlucky bakwas doesnt wash with me...
 
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