Any Ex-Muslims here?

[ShahKhan007]

I only believe in Quran and reject the Hadith with a passion, it makes me a non Muslim according to the majority including my family but I am at peace which is what matters. The root cause of most major problems in the so called Islamic world is the importance giving to Hadith over Quran.

 

[Stallion__]

 

[Deosai]

Being an atheist does not mean one does not love his country. The freedom fighter Bhagat Singh wrote an interesting essay while he was lodged in the Lahore Central Jail in 1930, shortly before he was executed by the British in 1931.
It is titled "Why I am an Atheist".

You don't seem to understand, the question is for Pakistanis because our country and the concept of our nationhood is based off religion- Islam, so it would only make sense if you're a Pakistani Ex Muslim.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Do you live in an Islamic country? If it was me in your position I wouldn't really see the need to tell your parents if it's not going to gain anything. Privately you can believe whatever you want anyway.

I live in Canada

 

[filthyfulltoss]

You don't seem to understand, the question is for Pakistanis because our country and the concept of our nationhood is based off religion- Islam, so it would only make sense if you're a Pakistani Ex Muslim.

What's the white stripe on that flag for? white muslim? Is it a typo??

 

[Raw deal]

Being an atheist does not mean one does not love his country. The freedom fighter Bhagat Singh wrote an interesting essay while he was lodged in the Lahore Central Jail in 1930, shortly before he was executed by the British in 1931.

It is titled "Why I am an Atheist".

your post makes no sense.

 

[Deosai]

What's the white stripe on that flag for? white muslim? Is it a typo??

non muslim minorities who are second class citizens under the constitution

 

[filthyfulltoss]

non muslim minorities who are second class citizens under the constitution

oh okay i see where you are coming from.

Personally, I don't agree with Pakistan at all on an ideological level. But there's more to being Pakistani than that. Culturally, I'm still Pakistani many ways.

 

[Deosai]

oh okay i see where you are coming from.

Personally, I don't agree with Pakistan at all on an ideological level. But there's more to being Pakistani than that. Culturally, I'm still Pakistani many ways.

Well Pakistan has many cultures so "Pakistani culture" encompasses many different cultures; you feel very Pakistani despite an ex-Muslim, and that's cause you're from Punjab or Sindh, but if you were from say KPK,GB or Balochistan and you were atheist, you could careless about being Pakistani; the ex-Muslims from those areas tend to be more ethnocentric and pro-secession.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Well Pakistan has many cultures so "Pakistani culture" encompasses many different cultures; you feel very Pakistani despite an ex-Muslim, and that's cause you're from Punjab or Sindh, but if you were from say KPK,GB or Balochistan and you were atheist, you could careless about being Pakistani; the ex-Muslims from those areas tend to be more ethnocentric and pro-secession.

You're right. You could blind fold me and drop me off in most of northern India and I would still identify culturally. I don't feel very Pakistani. My view of Pakistani culture is nothing more than music, arts and food and perhaps certain superficial behaviors - that's all I can take away without cognitive dissonance.

 

[Deosai]

You're right. You could blind fold me and drop me off in most of northern India and I would still identify culturally.

only the northwest tbh

I don't feel very Pakistani.

How do you define 'feeling' Pakistani?

My view of Pakistani culture is nothing more than music, arts and food and perhaps certain superficial behaviors - that's all I can take away without cognitive dissonance

I think those are important parts of our young culture, our music and arts has a distinct vibe about them that distinguishes it from Indian music and arts and our food is also a bit different.

 

[Adil_94]

I find it hard to accept some of the stuff in Islamic teachings. Find my way drifting from the faith more and more

 

[Laal]

Let's just say I outright reject some of the interpretations of the Quran. The concept of Hurs is one such example. Almost makes it seems like that heaven is a celestial orgy. That's quite perverted.

 

[shaz619]

When these guys leave Islam they turn into fascists and advocates of Islamaphobia.

 

[Deosai]

Let's just say I outright reject some of the interpretations of the Quran. The concept of Hurs is one such example. Almost makes it seems like that heaven is a celestial orgy. That's quite perverted.

What's wrong with that?If that's what God wants in the hereafter for the believers then it's right

 

[Badsha]

Have any of you folk told your parents? Relatives? How did they take it?

Life's given me a lot, and I'm really happy. But one thing I long for is unconditional love from someone who takes me for who I am. I love my parents, my parents love me - but I'm afraid their love for religion outweigh's their love for me and that's one of the saddest feelings I've ever felt. I want them to know me for who I am but I don't want to take away their happiness - seeing them in pain because of me is not something that I could ever bear. More selfishly, I don't want to lose them either. So I conform to their desires and wishes, and I'm confined to living a life that I don't really understand.

I don't understand why religion takes the form it does in Islam. Bukhari outlines many hadith which call for the death of apostates as per the desire of the Prophet. It's just a tad excessive. I wish our culture was more open.

I can't force myself to believe in something that doesn't make logical sense to me. I just wish Muslims would understand that. Try telling yourself that the sky is yellow - it's hard right? That's similar trying to convince myself that Islam is true - and I tried long and hard, it just didn't work. Those few lonely months were among the worst I've ever lived. Not understanding yourself, who you are, feeling alienated are among the worst feelings.

Bukharis book is a thousand years old compiled 200 years after the prophets passing in an ancient Arabia. I see no reason why any person would believe all of that book.

 

[Deosai]

Isn't death the punishment for apostasy in Islam? I'm sure it'd have been pretty hard for the ex-Muslims out here. If not and the religious people around you knew about this, haven't they done wrong by not taking any action on it? And if that is the case, which it is, will they be punished after their death?

No.

There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran which is the most important book in Islam and no other book can overrule it; the apostasy laws are only found in Hadiths; the first Hadiths, the Sahih Bukhari was written over 200 years after the Prophet died, and it contradicts the vary teachings in the Quran about "no compulsion in religion".

Sadly, most Muslims and scholars give the Hadiths too much value, even more than the Quran; though the Hadiths are important in explaining Islamic rituals and practices but anything that contradicts the Quran is not Islamic, but that's something most of us don't understand, neither do Islamophobes nor does the Government of Pakistan or other Muslim countries.

 

[Laal]

What's wrong with that?If that's what God wants in the hereafter for the believers then it's right

You're welcome to pray to a sexually perverted God.

 

[Sattarbuksh]

Muslims who reject the Hadiths and only follow the Quran are called; Quranists.

Quranists are less than 1% of the world Muslim population and are deemed heretics by mainstream Muslims; Sunni and Shia.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

only the northwest tbh


How do you define 'feeling' Pakistani?


I think those are important parts of our young culture, our music and arts has a distinct vibe about them that distinguishes it from Indian music and arts and our food is also a bit different.

I define 'feeling pakistani' simply in terms of superficial cultural customs. But at the deeper level, in no way would I ever engage the ideological foundation of Islam, or the widespread homophobia, misogyny, etc that has become prevalent in Pakistani society. Nor do I agree with the idea of having a theocratic state.

I find it hard to accept some of the stuff in Islamic teachings. Find my way drifting from the faith more and more

Cognitive dissonance is hard. You can hold contradictory beliefs for only so long.

When these guys leave Islam they turn into fascists and advocates of Islamaphobia.

Why do phobias develop? Why are people scared of heights? Because height threatens death. Why are people scared of sharks? Strangers in an ally? Because of death, or an attack on their feeling of security.

When you have a huge chunk of muslims that believe apostasy should be perscribed the death penalty, why wouldn't this people be scared of Islam - or islamophobic? On one hand you threaten death and on the other you demand respect, admiration, etc? If tomorrow someone or something threatened your life would you embrace it and admire it?

And as far as fascism is concerned I don't think you know what it means sadly.

Bukharis book is a thousand years old compiled 200 years after the prophets passing in an ancient Arabia. I see no reason why any person would believe all of that book.

I think there was a good thread a few months back that talked about the verification of hadith

No.

There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran which is the most important book in Islam and no other book can overrule it; the apostasy laws are only found in Hadiths; the first Hadiths, the Sahih Bukhari was written over 200 years after the Prophet died, and it contradicts the vary teachings in the Quran about "no compulsion in religion".

Sadly, most Muslims and scholars give the Hadiths too much value, even more than the Quran; though the Hadiths are important in explaining Islamic rituals and practices but anything that contradicts the Quran is not Islamic, but that's something most of us don't understand, neither do Islamophobes nor does the Government of Pakistan or other Muslim countries.

But the Quran itself does seem to stress the importance of Sunnah, and all of these hadith are deemed Sahih through the proper science behind hadith and their verification...

 

[shaz619]

Filthy Full Toss you are a facist and your pathetic posts and lack of knowledge vindicate your foul mind which is poisoned by irrational fears which have been exaggerated and generalized.

To the extremist atheists, I live in fear that you will chop me up like you did those poor Muslims not so long ago. Your'e all the same.

 

[Deosai]

You're welcome to pray to a sexually perverted God.

If God was perverted or whatever, he created this world, why do people expect God to be some liberal humanist or something, he isn't going to be what we want him to be; all our definitions of perversion,tyranny,cruelty,misogyny are all Earthly concepts, God is on a different level.

This is what people fail to understand, then they disappointed that God isn't the pacifist hippy they expected him to be.

 

[shaz619]

Atheists of the Filthy kind live to incite hatred and after they leave the religion they turn into facists. There are good ones to that want to build bridges and display a certain understanding for each others differences but most of them want to chop you up because you're a muslim given their irrational fears which are expanded by islamaphobic journalism.

 

[Deosai]

Muslims who reject the Hadiths and only follow the Quran are called; Quranists.

Quranists are less than 1% of the world Muslim population and are deemed heretics by mainstream Muslims; Sunni and Shia.

I don't reject the Hadiths, I accept every Hadiths as long as their in line with the Qur'an which is the numero uno source of information for Islam, every thing else is secondary, and any Hadith that contradicts the Quran is irrelevant and useless,

The vast majority of Muslims I know, are like me : Quran-centric Muslims(not Quran-only), they believe in some Hadiths and reject some, they scrutinize it more cause it's not the primary source of Islamic teachings.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Agnostic... sort of .I have my reasons to believe in a supreme being . I don't believe in organised religion though .Organised religion has done too much harm to humanity .

 

[The_KING]

I've never met an ex muslim in my life thankfully. But all the ones that I've come across and spoken to online gave me the impression that none of them actually understood Islam to begin with so no surprise that they became an ex muslim.

 

[The_KING]

Let's just say I outright reject some of the interpretations of the Quran. The concept of Hurs is one such example. Almost makes it seems like that heaven is a celestial orgy. That's quite perverted.

And what's wrong with that? Better to have all that stuff forever than temporarily.

 

[miandadrules]

When these guys leave Islam they turn into fascists and advocates of Islamaphobia.

Bit of a blanket statement.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Filthy Full Toss you are a facist and your pathetic posts and lack of knowledge vindicate your foul mind which is poisoned by irrational fears which have been exaggerated and generalized.

To the extremist atheists, I live in fear that you will chop me up like you did those poor Muslims not so long ago. Your'e all the same.

It's fascist, but I don't think you know what the term means so what's the point...

Do you live in fear of atheists chopping you up? Really? Can you list a specific event, or viewpoint expressed my atheists for you to have this view?

Is it really irrational to be afraid of orthodox Islam when a at least a dozen Muslim countries prescribe the death penalty for being atheist. Can you list any secular country that has the death penalty on practicing Islam? The hypocrisy and victim-hood complex is insane. Even LEAVING religion brings about a victim complex...

Atheists of the Filthy kind live to incite hatred and after they leave the religion they turn into facists. There are good ones to that want to build bridges and display a certain understanding for each others differences but most of them want to chop you up because you're a muslim given their irrational fears which are expanded by islamaphobic journalism.

How have I incited hatred...? It is your Quran that says apostates will suffer eternal hellfire and it's your sahih bukhari that says apostates should be killed, so how am I the one inciting hatred?

I've never met an ex muslim in my life thankfully. But all the ones that I've come across and spoken to online gave me the impression that none of them actually understood Islam to begin with so no surprise that they became an ex muslim.

Trust me you couldn't be more wrong about this

 

[shaz619]

These guys are only good for inciting hatred just look at these extreme and delusional atheists. And filthy full toss you are what you hate. All you do is demonize muslims which you makes you a facist. Yeah what's the point calling the sky blue right not worth it, not my fault you don't understand what you are. YES I LIVE IN FEAR after reading your posts and those of others around PP, it's funny that you call out Muslims on being violent when you want to terrorise us in this way just for having a belief in Islam. It's not our fault you have a narrow minded perspective of Islam which is used to demonize us [MENTION=137672]filthyfulltoss[/MENTION], don't know why you are terrorizing me with the irrational fear that I want to kill you for leaving Islam it's disgusting and sickening I couldn't care less if you're an atheist just let me live in peace you savage

 

[shaz619]

Just look at these Atheist monsters, it's quite funny that you're saying Muslims are blah blah blah Islam is violent etc yet you want to wipe us out, it's disgusting

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

I've never met an ex muslim in my life thankfully. But all the ones that I've come across and spoken to online gave me the impression that none of them actually understood Islam to begin with so no surprise that they became an ex muslim.

No true Scotsman fallacy right here.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Just look at these Atheist monsters, it's quite funny that you're saying Muslims are blah blah blah Islam is violent etc yet you want to wipe us out, it's disgusting

Can you show me one post where I said that?

You're literally lying and spouting rubbish.

But please just show me one post where I have said this or even implied this...

It's obvious you won't because there is no such post...

These guys are only good for inciting hatred just look at these extreme and delusional atheists. And filthy full toss you are what you hate. All you do is demonize muslims which you makes you a facist. Yeah what's the point calling the sky blue right not worth it, not my fault you don't understand what you are. YES I LIVE IN FEAR after reading your posts and those of others around PP, it's funny that you call out Muslims on being violent when you want to terrorise us in this way just for having a belief in Islam. It's not our fault you have a narrow minded perspective of Islam which is used to demonize us [MENTION=137672]filthyfulltoss[/MENTION], don't know why you are terrorizing me with the irrational fear that I want to kill you for leaving Islam it's disgusting and sickening I couldn't care less if you're an atheist just let me live in peace you savage

1) Where have I demonized muslims?
2) How do I want to terrorize anyone?
3) Reading other people's OPINION puts you in fear? What...?
4) I never said you wanted to kill me for leaving Islam... I don't even care what your religion is...
5) How is my perspective narrowminded on Islam?
6) How am I not letting you live in peace?

-----

You can't even answer one of those questions.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

These guys are only good for inciting hatred just look at these extreme and delusional atheists. And filthy full toss you are what you hate. All you do is demonize muslims which you makes you a facist. Yeah what's the point calling the sky blue right not worth it, not my fault you don't understand what you are. YES I LIVE IN FEAR after reading your posts and those of others around PP, it's funny that you call out Muslims on being violent when you want to terrorise us in this way just for having a belief in Islam. It's not our fault you have a narrow minded perspective of Islam which is used to demonize us [MENTION=137672]filthyfulltoss[/MENTION], don't know why you are terrorizing me with the irrational fear that I want to kill you for leaving Islam it's disgusting and sickening I couldn't care less if you're an atheist just let me live in peace you savage

You must be smoking some Goood Sheeee .

 

[shaz619]

Can you show me one post where I said that?

You're literally lying and spouting rubbish.

But please just show me one post where I have said this or even implied this...

It's obvious you won't because there is no such post...





1) Where have I demonized muslims?
2) How do I want to terrorize anyone?
3) Reading other people's OPINION puts you in fear? What...?
4) I never said you wanted to kill me for leaving Islam... I don't even care what your religion is...
5) How is my perspective narrowminded on Islam?
6) How am I not letting you live in peace?

-----

You can't even answer one of those questions.

how am I Lying and spouting rubbish am only speaking from experience. It's hypocritical of you to say x,y,z about Islam and then hold a different view when it comes to the behaviour of extreme atheists.

You have demonized Muslims by generalizing your irrational fears towards all of us, reiterating that we want to Kill Apostates which is not true I don't want to.

I feel terrorized by your posts.

Your perspective is narrow minded because you can't differentiate between Islam and Extremism.

You're not letting me live in peace because when I walk along the street there could be an atheist that could jump out of no where wanting to chop me up just for being a Muslim.

 

[shaz619]

You must be smoking some Goood Sheeee .

And you must be drunk after knocking down bottles of pee

 

[speed]

For those who leave Or turn their back on Islam , Allah says in the Quran I will replace you with a people better than you, so for every islamaphobe that we have We can't thank Allah enough for the shayks hamza Yusuf, nuh Keller Timothy winter, and many others.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Shazzy let me break down your argument:

Exmuslims are islamophobic and fascists because they left Islam. Look at the causality there. Also, exmuslims are savage barbarians that want to chop up Muslims. Why? Because they left Islam. (The argument makes logical coherent sense, obviously) Exmuslims are violent for leaving Islam. However, muslims are peaceful despite the fact that many (PEW polls show more accurate numbers) of them agree to the death penalty for apostates which is generally the rule by orthodox Islam. Muslims are the victims, and exmuslims are savage, vile oppressors. The argument checks out haha.

 

[The_KING]

Trust me you couldn't be more wrong about this

Stop talking rubbish on an internet forum and go and tell your parents.

 

[shaz619]

For those who leave Or turn their back on Islam , Allah says in the Quran I will replace you with a people better than you, so for every islamaphobe that we have We can't thank Allah enough for the shayks hamza Yusuf, nuh Keller Timothy winter, and many others.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately there are fewer Timothy Winters out there and more Lucifers.

 

[The_KING]

For those who leave Or turn their back on Islam , Allah says in the Quran I will replace you with a people better than you, so for every islamaphobe that we have We can't thank Allah enough for the shayks hamza Yusuf, nuh Keller Timothy winter, and many others.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Well said bro

 

[filthyfulltoss]

For those who leave Or turn their back on Islam , Allah says in the Quran I will replace you with a people better than you, so for every islamaphobe that we have We can't thank Allah enough for the shayks hamza Yusuf, nuh Keller Timothy winter, and many others.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

How does leaving Islam make one an islamophobe?

how am I Lying and spouting rubbish am only speaking from experience. It's hypocritical of you to say x,y,z about Islam and then hold a different view when it comes to the behaviour of extreme atheists.

You have demonized Muslims by generalizing your irrational fears towards all of us, reiterating that we want to Kill Apostates which is not true I don't want to.

I feel terrorized by your posts.

Your perspective is narrow minded because you can't differentiate between Islam and Extremism.

You're not letting me live in peace because when I walk along the street there could be an atheist that could jump out of no where wanting to chop me up just for being a Muslim.

You're speaking from experience? I don't ever recall hanging out with you buddy ... what experiences have we shared? ahaha

I think this is a misunderstanding - I never suggested that you want to harm anyone. I'm sorry if you thought I said that ... that's definitely not true. I was talking about orthodox muslims that follow the Sahih Bukhari, many of them do want the death penalty for apostates.

This is from a PEW research poll: "A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for the death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%), and relatively minor support in Lebanon (6% in favor) and Turkey (5%)."

These are the people I'm talking about.

And your fears of "atheist extremists" are just delusions. Stop with the victim mentality...

 

[shaz619]

Shazzy let me break down your argument:

Exmuslims are islamophobic and fascists because they left Islam. Look at the causality there. Also, exmuslims are savage barbarians that want to chop up Muslims. Why? Because they left Islam. (The argument makes logical coherent sense, obviously) Exmuslims are violent for leaving Islam. However, muslims are peaceful despite the fact that many (PEW polls show more accurate numbers) of them agree to the death penalty for apostates which is generally the rule by orthodox Islam. Muslims are the victims, and exmuslims are savage, vile oppressors. The argument checks out haha.

Am not having an argument am just afraid of how you view Muslims, I speak for myself no need to throw words in my mouth and structure my argument for me to make yourself seem all coherent when in fact you make no sense whatsoever. This one post of yours vindicates the extreme and violent feelings you have towards muslims. You should quote me where I've said anything against Atheists but here you are terrorizing me for having a belief in Islam, you're no different to that guy who chopped up those innocent Muslim girls

 

[Neferpitou]

How does leaving Islam make one an islamophobe?

You're a fine example.

 

[Cricket lover 27]

Shazzy let me break down your argument:

Exmuslims are islamophobic and fascists because they left Islam. Look at the causality there. Also, exmuslims are savage barbarians that want to chop up Muslims. Why? Because they left Islam. (The argument makes logical coherent sense, obviously) Exmuslims are violent for leaving Islam. However, muslims are peaceful despite the fact that many (PEW polls show more accurate numbers) of them agree to the death penalty for apostates which is generally the rule by orthodox Islam. Muslims are the victims, and exmuslims are savage, vile oppressors. The argument checks out haha.

If Islam advocates killing of apostates just name me 5 people who have been killed in the last 50 years or so for leaving Islam.

 

[shaz619]

How does leaving Islam make one an islamophobe?



You're speaking from experience? I don't ever recall hanging out with you buddy ... what experiences have we shared? ahaha

I think this is a misunderstanding - I never suggested that you want to harm anyone. I'm sorry if you thought I said that ... that's definitely not true. I was talking about orthodox muslims that follow the Sahih Bukhari, many of them do want the death penalty for apostates.

This is from a PEW research poll: "A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for the death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%), and relatively minor support in Lebanon (6% in favor) and Turkey (5%)."

These are the people I'm talking about.

And your fears of "atheist extremists" are just delusions. Stop with the victim mentality...

Who said am talking about you? as far as my experiences are concerned with atheists, you're not the only one.

There are many muslims that campaign against the death penalty.

Again it's quite hypocritical of you to call out Muslims for x,y,z yet you become defensive when it comes to extreme atheists you even refuse to acknowledge it, what about that atheist guy that murdered the muslim girls was that a delusion to?

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Am not having an argument am just afraid of how you view Muslims, I speak for myself no need to throw words in my mouth and structure my argument for me to make yourself seem all coherent when in fact you make no sense whatsoever. This one post of yours vindicates the extreme and violent feelings you have towards muslims. You should quote me where I've said anything against Atheists but here you are terrorizing me for having a belief in Islam, you're no different to that guy who chopped up those innocent Muslim girls

"how dare you put words in my mouth"

followed by

"you have hateful, violent views towards muslims! you do because I am telling you that you do without any evidence"

You've spoken enough hateful nonsense to scroll up and see it yourself. I don't use hyperbole like savage, and vile in my sentences. I think I've been respectful in whatever I have said.

You're a fine example.

So what have I said that reflects my Islamophobia...?

Wait why do I even bother... you people get offended at the fact that someone would dare have a difference in opinion.

 

[Sattarbuksh]

Accusing an ex-Muslim of Islamophobia is like accusing an ex-Slave of Slaveryophobia.

 

[shaz619]

"how dare you put words in my mouth"

followed by

"you have hateful, violent views towards muslims! you do because I am telling you that you do without any evidence"

You've spoken enough hateful nonsense to scroll up and see it yourself. I don't use hyperbole like savage, and vile in my sentences. I think I've been respectful in whatever I have said.



So what have I said that reflects my Islamophobia...?

Wait why do I even bother... you people get offended at the fact that someone would dare have a difference in opinion.

What do you want DNA proof or something, am merely responding to your hateful views accordingly and you want evidence for that is there something wrong with you? more like you can't take someone disagreeing with your narrow minded generalizations. I don't know why you're terrorizing us Muslims, tell me what did we do to you? you're still alive aren't you? and like I said there are muslims that campaign against the death penalty

 

[CricFan2012]

why call your selves ex-Muslims..why not just say "i'm and atheist or agnostic"?

its sad you've left but then again perhaps for the better for all...

What a garbage post... Everyone is human, religion doesnt matter

 

[shaz619]

Am a Muslim and I couldn't care less if you're gay or Atheist but people give you guys too much sympathy for basically demonizing Muslims and jumping on the bandwagon of Islamaphobia. You left Islam fine but just because it's not your thing it's unnecessary to generalize extremist views to all of us, it only encourages violence against Muslims. Majority of Hate crimes are committed against Muslims these days because of the views certain people in this thread have, you may not realise it but you're encouraging violence against us

 

[filthyfulltoss]

If Islam advocates killing of apostates just name me 5 people who have been killed in the last 50 years or so for leaving Islam.

I can provide you with way more than 5 but that defeats the purpose. The point is that this is religious hatred and it's sadly hilarious to call ex-muslims islamophobic or phobic of a religion where the orthodox view demands your death.

Who said am talking about you? as far as my experiences are concerned with atheists, you're not the only one.

There are many muslims that campaign against the death penalty.

Again it's quite hypocritical of you to call out Muslims for x,y,z yet you become defensive when it comes to extreme atheists you even refuse to acknowledge it, what about that atheist guy that murdered the muslim girls was that a delusion to?

Because you suggested that I hated Islam and hated muslims, etc - and you offer no proof for that because there is none and you're speaking childish rubbish.

I was also speaking about Islam in general, and bringing up the teachings of orthodox Islam. I don't care what you believe or what you do in your free time. You took my bringing up of these hadith as a personal attack, which it obviously wasn't.

What exactly are extreme atheists and what do the advocate? I'm against any one that advocates the harm of another human being ... There is no unifying atheistic perspective... atheists can be good, bad, crazy, evil, etc... and there is no atheistic doctrine that demands for the persecution of muslims. Your equivalencies are off.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Accusing an ex-Muslim of Islamophobia is like accusing an ex-Slave of Slaveryophobia.

I quit man you take over

What do you want DNA proof or something, am merely responding to your hateful views accordingly and you want evidence for that is there something wrong with you? more like you can't take someone disagreeing with your narrow minded generalizations. I don't know why you're terrorizing us Muslims, tell me what did we do to you? you're still alive aren't you? and like I said there are muslims that campaign against the death penalty

No I don't want DNA proof? What are you smoking...

I WANT YOU TO QUOTE TEXT WHERE I HAVE DEMONIZED OR HATED ON MUSLIMS

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Accusing an ex-Muslim of Islamophobia is like accusing an ex-Slave of Slaveryophobia.

The revert brothers and sisters shall now be known as hinduphobic, amreekaphobic, yahoodiphobic, etc etc

 

[shaz619]

I can provide you with way more than 5 but that defeats the purpose. The point is that this is religious hatred and it's sadly hilarious to call ex-muslims islamophobic or phobic of a religion where the orthodox view demands your death.



Because you suggested that I hated Islam and hated muslims, etc - and you offer no proof for that because there is none and you're speaking childish rubbish.

I was also speaking about Islam in general, and bringing up the teachings of orthodox Islam. I don't care what you believe or what you do in your free time. You took my bringing up of these hadith as a personal attack, which it obviously wasn't.

What exactly are extreme atheists and what do the advocate? I'm against any one that advocates the harm of another human being ... There is no unifying atheistic perspective... atheists can be good, bad, crazy, evil, etc... and there is no atheistic doctrine that demands for the persecution of muslims. Your equivalencies are off.

You have demonized muslims with various generalizations, you've not just come out and spoke against extremism. You're suggesting that all of us should be labelled as extremists.

Where have I discussed hadith etc? am just trying to protect Muslims from potential hate crimes which may be provoked by your views

Just because there is no doctrine you think that there are not people out there that will encourage and participate in violence against Muslims?

 

[shaz619]

The revert brothers and sisters shall now be known as hinduphobic, amreekaphobic, yahoodiphobic, etc etc

More generalizations, what bs. You're basically feeling sorry for yourself for leaving Islam and pushing this stupid idea that we have an abject hatred for you because you left Islam when in fact you have left Islam and started to make it look as if we're the bad guys and have ill feelings towards you for leaving when that's not the case. I don't have an issue with you leaving Islam, you're inciting hatred like this people will hold ill feelings towards muslims thinking we're not cool with atheists leaving Islam

 

[filthyfulltoss]

You have demonized muslims with various generalizations, you've not just come out and spoke against extremism. You're suggesting that all of us should be labelled as extremists.

Where have I discussed hadith etc? am just trying to protect Muslims from potential hate crimes which may be provoked by your views

Just because there is no doctrine you think that there are not people out there that will encourage and participate in violence against Muslims?

You're suggesting that all of us should be labelled as extremists. - No

You think hate crimes may be provoked by the fact that a majority of muslims in many muslim countries believe in the death penalty for apostasy and your biggest issue is me bringing it up? You have no issue with the people who actually support this stuff, instead your issue is with me? What?

If people are violent against muslims for believing in the death penalty for apostates - which is a bizarre claim - shouldn't your issue be with the muslims that hold these views rather than ex-muslims who bring it up??

 

[shaz619]

I quit man you take over



No I don't want DNA proof? What are you smoking...

I WANT YOU TO QUOTE TEXT WHERE I HAVE DEMONIZED OR HATED ON MUSLIMS

What are you drunk or something, you asked me for proof when I just responded to the hatred you were inciting. And I've explained how you're demonizing us, you are demonizing us with your generalizations you're pushing this idea that we want apostates dead and just now you made fun of what you think we think of those who leave islam with stupid slurs like hindu yahoodi or whatever you said there

 

[filthyfulltoss]

More generalizations, what bs. You're basically feeling sorry for yourself for leaving Islam and pushing this stupid idea that we have an abject hatred for you because you left Islam when in fact you have left Islam and started to make it look as if we're the bad guys and have ill feelings towards you for leaving when that's not the case. I don't have an issue with you leaving Islam, you're inciting hatred like this people will hold ill feelings towards muslims thinking we're not cool with atheists leaving Islam

So there is no abject hatred:

"A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for the death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%), and relatively minor support in Lebanon (6% in favor) and Turkey (5%)."

When you say "we" who are you referring to ? 16% of Egyptions, 14% of Jordanians, 24% of Pakistanis...

 

[filthyfulltoss]

What are you drunk or something, you asked me for proof when I just responded to the hatred you were inciting. And I've explained how you're demonizing us, you are demonizing us with your generalizations you're pushing this idea that we want apostates dead and just now you made fun of what you think we think of those who leave islam with stupid slurs like hindu yahoodi or whatever you said there

I've provided polls, hadith which have been verified, etc that shows what orthodox Islam suggests but you conveniently ignore them every time.

I haven't used slurs and I don't think you have very good reading comprehension

 

[shaz619]

You're suggesting that all of us should be labelled as extremists. - No

You think hate crimes may be provoked by the fact that a majority of muslims in many muslim countries believe in the death penalty for apostasy and your biggest issue is me bringing it up? You have no issue with the people who actually support this stuff, instead your issue is with me? What?

If people are violent against muslims for believing in the death penalty for apostates - which is a bizarre claim - shouldn't your issue be with the muslims that hold these views rather than ex-muslims who bring it up??

I've spoken out against the death penalty and said I don't believe in it actually but yet you are downplaying the significance of making generalizations which may provoke violence against muslims. There are people that need to be dealt with for wanting to kill apostates but also those who want to attack muslims thinking they hold such views when it's not true, not all muslims believe in apostocy and nor would they advocate it.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

I've spoken out against the death penalty and said I don't believe in it actually but yet you are downplaying the significance of making generalizations which may provoke violence against muslims. There are people that need to be dealt with for wanting to kill apostates but also those who want to attack muslims thinking they hold such views when it's not true, not all muslims believe in apostocy and nor would they advocate it.

If you go back in the thread, and actually read, you'll notice that I never suggested that anywhere. You're basically arguing with me on views I don't hold which is pretty dumb.

 

[shaz619]

I've provided polls, hadith which have been verified, etc that shows what orthodox Islam suggests but you conveniently ignore them every time.

I haven't used slurs and I don't think you have very good reading comprehension

There's something wrong with your brain never mind my reading comprehension. What have I conveniently ignored? you are yet to condemn the attacks of the extreme atheist on the innocent muslim women

 

[shaz619]

If you go back in the thread, and actually read, you'll notice that I never suggested that anywhere. You're basically arguing with me on views I don't hold which is pretty dumb.

What's dumb is you inciting hatred and demonizing muslims whilst feeling sorry for yourself; heyy everybody am an atheist waaaaaaah waaaaaaah muslims want to kill me waaaaah waaaah

 

[filthyfulltoss]

how to waste time and have a circular argument 101

 

[Sattarbuksh]

If you go back in the thread, and actually read, you'll notice that I never suggested that anywhere. You're basically arguing with me on views I don't hold which is pretty dumb.

A 'straw man argument'.

When people do not have strong counter arguments they put words in your mouth and then attack those words they themselves put there.

 

[shaz619]

A 'straw man argument'.

When people do not have strong counter arguments they put words in your mouth and then attack those words they themselves put there.

Yeah that's what he was doing actually but here's you cheerleading for that guy, either your atheist tp or he must be your bf

 

[filthyfulltoss]

I have never generalized or demonized - this is from a post way back which of course you conveniently ignored because you want to make an argument that i'm hateful and demonizing:

"I think this is a misunderstanding - I never suggested that you want to harm anyone. I'm sorry if you thought I said that ... that's definitely not true. I was talking about orthodox muslims that follow the Sahih Bukhari, many of them do want the death penalty for apostates. "

I literally apologized for the misunderstanding. Lord give me patience

And as for denouncing atheist extremism, whatever on earth that is - "I'm against any one that advocates the harm of another human being ... "

Also a few posts up ... but you ignore it because otherwise you wouldn't have an argument......

^ So, I'm not islamophobic, I don't hate muslims, I don't think that hurting muslims or demonizing muslims is fun either but reading is fun! And learning to read would really boost that resume up a little haha

 

[filthyfulltoss]

A 'straw man argument'.

When people do not have strong counter arguments they put words in your mouth and then attack those words they themselves put there.

Man I can't believe I wasted so much of my time in an argument where the main premise was

A: you believe this, this and this

B: No I don't! I never said that !

A: Yes you do

(repeat 342342343 times)

 

[shaz619]

Again these monsters resort to low grade insults to conceal their hatred for muslims after they were exposed it's so funny quoting posts that conflict with what's in your heart whilst pushing this idea that we're having an argument for the sake of having one which is sickening when am genuinely concerned for my fellow muslims when people hold your views. Like I said leave us alone please, stop terrorizing us that would be nice.

 

[shaz619]

Am sorry but you're not emphatic enough in your condemnation of violence against muslim by extremist atheists as you are when it comes to the death penalty blahh blahh they want to kill us all like an uneducated dimwit that is misinformed

 

[Nostalgic]

Am sorry but you're not emphatic enough in your condemnation of violence against muslim by extremist atheists as you are when it comes to the death penalty blahh blahh they want to kill us all like an uneducated dimwit that is misinformed

This is almost like a Stream of Consciousness sentence.

Note to self: read Ulysses again.

 

[Buffet]

I've spoken out against the death penalty and said I don't believe in it actually but yet you are downplaying the significance of making generalizations which may provoke violence against muslims. There are people that need to be dealt with for wanting to kill apostates but also those who want to attack muslims thinking they hold such views when it's not true, not all muslims believe in apostocy and nor would they advocate it.

In some countries, they are in huge majority so there are not just some people who need to be dealt. Majority of population need to be dealt with in some countries.

-------------

Earlier posted in this thread,

punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%)

---------------

 

[shaz619]

In some countries, they are in huge majority so there are not just some people who need to be dealt. Majority of population need to be dealt with in some countries.

-------------

Earlier posted in this thread,

punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%)

---------------

That's very unfortunate and like I said there are muslims which are campaigning against this and I have protested against apostocy in my city but at the same time we also need to condemn Islamaphobes and extremist atheists.

 

[Sattarbuksh]

I've never come across a group of Ex-Muslims hacking away at necks of Muslims. You can easily find the reverse in most Muslim majority countries. Infact Ex-Muslims have Muslims in their own or extended families, and they love Muslims as they love any other human being.

Ex-Muslims (along with any other rational human being) are not against the five pillars of Islam, but are against:

Death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, homosexuality, adultery, etc.
As well as; virgins in paradise as a reward for martyrdom, forced hijab, unequal blood money, unequal rights of women, sex slavery, amputations, flogging, offering unbelievers choice of protection/gunda tax or death, subjugation of unbelievers, etc.

 

[Neferpitou]

Lol Shaz going off.

 

[Buffet]

That's very unfortunate and like I said there are muslims which are campaigning against this and I have protested against apostocy in my city but at the same time we also need to condemn Islamaphobes and extremist atheists.

Extremist views which can harm others should be condemned no matter if they are religious or non-religious.

Also, if some ex-Muslim left Islam after thinking a lot about it then you are not going to stop him/her to talk about why he/she left Islam. If you are calling it Islamaphobes then I am not sure what can be done about it. It's an expected behavior from some one who left a group by choice to present arguments to support his decision.

If anyone used threatening language then simply report to admins and person will be banned.

 

[shaz619]

I've never come across a group of Ex-Muslims hacking away at necks of Muslims. You can easily find the reverse in most Muslim majority countries. Infact Ex-Muslims have Muslims in their own or extended families, and they love Muslims as they love any other human being.

Ex-Muslims (along with any other rational human being) are not against the five pillars of Islam, but are against:

Death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, homosexuality, adultery, etc.
As well as; virgins in paradise as a reward for martyrdom, forced hijab, unequal blood money, unequal rights of women, sex slavery, amputations, flogging, offering unbelievers choice of protection/gunda tax or death, subjugation of unbelievers, etc.

You see this is were all the misunderstandings begin and Islamaphobia takes shape. There are madrasas funded by saudi that may advocate all those things and various versions of Islam such as extreme salfism and wahabism which are very fond of those evils you mentioned but there are many muslims that don't follow an Islam which suggests their women are forced to wear hijab, unequal rights etc there is a hadith that says there are 72 sects in Islam and only one will go to heaven. My view is that wahabis, extreme salaifs etc will all burn in hell

 

[shaz619]

Extremist views which can harm others should be condemned no matter if they are religious or non-religious.

Also, if some ex-Muslim left Islam after thinking a lot about it then you are not going to stop him/her to talk about why he/she left Islam. If you are calling it Islamaphobes then I am not sure what can be done about it. It's an expected behavior from some one who left a group by choice to present arguments to support his decision.

If anyone used threatening language then simply report to admins and person will be banned.

Look I don't care if someone left Islam for various reasons but what I can't stand is when Muslims are demonized or if certain generalizations are made.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

This is almost like a Stream of Consciousness sentence.

Note to self: read Ulysses again.

What's a stream of consciousness sentence? Please explain