Arsenal FC | 2024/25 Season

[IMMY69]

Exactly he flicks his boot out to trip him up, its not a straight leg lunge

Supposedly you can you use excessive force how by tripping someone up

All Arsenal other red cards this season were correct. Yesterday's was wrong

The other red cards were correct other then the fact that there was no consistency or common sense applied with those reds, for example a Brighton player kicked the ball away in the first half and wasn't given a yellow etc etc

 

[IMMY69]

I agree that was the intent but unfortunately in this circumstance the intent is irrelevant when he's caught him on the side of the leg with his studs and then raked it down to his ankle

Even where the point of content is you have to determine the force and intention, that is the law. It was reckless and should have been a yellow card

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Your simply making criteria up as you go along just to Suit your agenda and I was simply exposing the rubbish you came up.

Let's deal with facts

Whether a player attempts to play or not play ball is irrelevant.

Where they catch a player is irrelevant as well.

It's essentially about how much "perceived" force is put on the challenge.

I'm sure if an Arsenal player does a joelinton challenge on isak in a few weeks and injuries him for rest of season, you will soon conviently change your tune.

You've exposed nothing apart from your ignorance and waffle

Where they catch a player is irrelevant? So a kick to the head will be treated the same as a kick to the foot? Is that what you are actually saying?

If an Arsenal player puts in a challenge that I deem to be a red card I will call it out, if I don't think it's a red card I will say as much. You are now talking about hypothetical scenarios and coming up with your own outcome, it's at that stage you need take the tin foil hat off and step away

I even said Bruno should have been sent off against Arsenal when we played you last season yet ignore that and think I have some bias narrative

And I don't support Arsenal or Wolves so this red card has no impact on me having to make stuff up

 

[Amjid Javed]

Even where the point of content is you have to determine the force and intention, that is the law. It was reckless and should have been a yellow card

The key element is excessive force, so how can a player apply excessive force from sticking leg out. Rather then a straight leg stamp

Its a yellow card agreed

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Even where the point of content is you have to determine the force and intention, that is the law. It was reckless and should have been a yellow card

Of course, despite the theatrics from AJ I haven't said contact automatically equals red card

No doubt he's going to look at every tackle and then suggest I should want them all sent off

I think the way he's caught him is dangerous and that's why I think it's a red card. However, as I said right at the start it is a subjective decision so I understand there will be people that think otherwise, unless we get forceometers (are they even a thing) built into shin pads it is always going to be subjective

My main issue at the start was I don't think it's the massive howler that it is being painted out to be

Fabian Schar being sent off against Southampton was a far bigger injustice

 

[IMMY69]

The key element is excessive force, so how can a player apply excessive force from sticking leg out. Rather then a straight leg stamp

Its a yellow card agreed

Yeah whichever way you see the footage, it's not a straight red.
No intent, studs are not up... reckless yes, yellow card all day long

 

[IMMY69]

Of course, despite the theatrics from AJ I haven't said contact automatically equals red card

No doubt he's going to look at every tackle and then suggest I should want them all sent off

I think the way he's caught him is dangerous and that's why I think it's a red card. However, as I said right at the start it is a subjective decision so I understand there will be people that think otherwise, unless we get forceometers (are they even a thing) built into shin pads it is always going to be subjective

My main issue at the start was I don't think it's the massive howler that it is being painted out to be

Fabian Schar being sent off against Southampton was a far bigger injustice

See I think it is a massive howler...
This is where we disagree.

I don't think he caught him badly, yes the foot touches the shin, but only the side, not the studs so not a dangerous act and of course intention plays a massive part in a straight red..

I agree it's all subjective but there are far too many inconsistencies now... I've seen far worse tackles, elbows to the face not getting a card etc in various games and then you get something like this?

 

[Mamoon]

Don't forget Tuchel has the same amount of Champions league and league titles as Klopp but you won't see folks comparing Tuchel with Klopp.

Tuchel and Conte are two of the most underrated managers of the last 15-20 years. PR darling Klopp has done nothing in his career to suggest that he is better than them.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Tuchel and Conte are two of the most underrated managers of the last 15-20 years. PR darling Klopp has done nothing in his career to suggest that he is better than them.

But Arteta is not in the same league as any of these . Facts.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Of course, despite the theatrics from AJ I haven't said contact automatically equals red card

No doubt he's going to look at every tackle and then suggest I should want them all sent off

I think the way he's caught him is dangerous and that's why I think it's a red card. However, as I said right at the start it is a subjective decision so I understand there will be people that think otherwise, unless we get forceometers (are they even a thing) built into shin pads it is always going to be subjective

My main issue at the start was I don't think it's the massive howler that it is being painted out to be

Fabian Schar being sent off against Southampton was a far bigger injustice

Schar was 100% red Card, if you move your head towards another player in that manner, regardless if its full blow headbutt or not its a red card.

No different to Nicholas pepe doing same vs Leeds quite a few years ago

No injustice at all for schar. Shouldn't have moved his head towards the player

 

[Mamoon]

But Arteta is not in the same league as any of these . Facts.

He is. He will win multiple league titles with Arsenal.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

See I think it is a massive howler...
This is where we disagree.

I don't think he caught him badly, yes the foot touches the shin, but only the side, not the studs so not a dangerous act and of course intention plays a massive part in a straight red..

I agree it's all subjective but there are far too many inconsistencies now... I've seen far worse tackles, elbows to the face not getting a card etc in various games and then you get something like this?

This is where we will agree, the inconsistency is frustrating, for example Lisandro Martinez jumped 2 footed in the air against Palace, missed the player but it was clearly reckless but no red card given

I do think the standard of officiating is poor but for me a lot of this is due to VAR. pundits, managers, fans etc etc, though this is probably a discussion for a different thread

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Schar was 100% red Card, if you move your head towards another player in that manner, regardless if its full blow headbutt or not its a red card.

No different to Nicholas pepe doing same vs Leeds quite a few years ago

No injustice at all for schar. Shouldn't have moved his head towards the player

Hold on, show me in the laws where what Schar did is worthy of a red card?

You seemed keen on following things to the letter of the law earlier, let's see how consistent you are

 

[aboveandbeyond]

He is. He will win multiple league titles with Arsenal.

If he fails this season. It's highly likely, the likes of inzaghi, or even maybe Iraola comes in.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Hold on, show me in the laws where what Schar did is worthy of a red card?

You seemed keen on following things to the letter of the law earlier, let's see how consistent you are

It's violent conduct, like I said Pepe did same thing vs Leeds. If you move your head towards another player it's a red card.

Yet your acting like it's a howler

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

It's violent conduct, like I said Pepe did same thing vs Leeds. If you move your head towards another player it's a red card.

Yet your acting like it's a howler

No, no, not letting you get away with it that easily

I'll ask the question again, show me in the laws where what Schar did is worthy of a red card?

 

[Amjid Javed]

No, no, not letting you get away with it that easily

I'll ask the question again, show me in the laws where what Schar did is worthy of a red card?

Violent conduct

www.premierleague.com

Like I said Schar, shouldn't have moved his head forward

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Violent conduct

www.premierleague.com

View attachment 150155

Like I said Schar, shouldn't have moved his head forward

"Unless the force used was negligible"

Do you think the force used was negligible or not?

 

[MK7Z]

Subjective.....

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Subjective.....

Touche

The thing is the law doesn't really support what Schar did as a red card (my honest issue with that decision is that both players should have got a red card or neither) as there is nothing in it to justify it as I think any sane person will agree the force used was negligible

However, I actually accept that any movement of the head is usually given as a red card, which proves my entire point, that the laws provide the framework, then after that it enters the realm of subjectivity

 

[Amjid Javed]

"Unless the force used was negligible"

Do you think the force used was negligible or not?

I dont have a forceomiter

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I dont have a forceomiter

Indeed and we come full circle to me being correct

 

[Amjid Javed]

Indeed and we come full circle to me being correct

Nope, the schar red card was correct

LMS wasn't correct

 

[MK7Z]

Saka loss is a major blow. To add to it... His so called backup in Sterling is out for a while to.

Looks like Trossard and Martinelli wil be playing on the wing.

Jesus maybe if Havertz starts up front.

But Jesus finally started scoring to. Sigh.

We need to be active in the window but we won't be.

Welcome to Arsenal Rashford probably

I cant shake the feeling we will end up with Rashford in the next few days.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I cant shake the feeling we will end up with Rashford in the next few days.

Probably Trashford or some underwhelming loan deal again.

If this club was remotely serious players would have been signed at start of window.

On a side note the players will probably go off to dubai now in February now that they have been dumped out of the cups, for a sunshine jolly up.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Arsenal have submitted an appeal to have Myles Lewis-Skelly's controversial red card overturned.

The defender was sent off during his side's 1-0 win against Wolves on Saturday.

Lewis-Skelly was dismissed for catching Matt Doherty above the ankle with a late tackle to break up a counter-attack just outside the Wolves box in the 43rd minute.

The decision by referee Michael Oliver was upheld by video assistant referee (VAR) Darren England.

Lewis-Skelly is set to miss Arsenal's next three games - a Premier League home match against Manchester City on Sunday, next week's Carabao Cup semi-final second leg at Newcastle and a league fixture against Leicester on 15 February.

The Football Association has been approached for comment.

After the match, Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta told BBC Match of the Day he thought the referee had made the wrong decision, saying it was "so obvious that today you don't need my words", before later telling Sky Sports he was "absolutely fuming".

The decision was also criticised by former officials and pundits.

Wolves midfielder Joao Gomes was sent off later in the match after receiving a second yellow card, before Arsenal defender Riccardo Calafiori scored the only goal.

Referees' body the PGMOL says police are investigating "threats and abuse" directed at Oliver following the game at Molineux.

Source: BBC

 

[Amjid Javed]

If anyone wondering about Arsenal transfers

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal defender Myles Lewis-Skelly's three-match ban - imposed for a red card at Wolves on Saturday - has been overturned.

The Gunners appealed against the decision to send off the 18-year-old and an independent regulatory commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal, the Football Association confirmed.

Lewis-Skelly was shown a straight red card after fouling Matt Doherty, with referee Michael Oliver deeming it serious foul play.

Doherty was just outside the Wolves box as he mounted a counter-attack and the decision was initially upheld by the video assistant referee (VAR).

Source: BBC

 

[Amjid Javed]

So LMS ban overturned. But PGMOL continue to back Mr brown envelopes Michael Oliver.

Only corrupt, brain dead or blind people could have thought that was a red card in 1st place.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

So LMS ban overturned. But PGMOL continue to back Mr brown envelopes Michael Oliver.

Only corrupt, brain dead or blind people could have thought that was a red card in 1st place.

Come on Man. Goerdie Ahmed is a respected poster.

 

[MK7Z]

Come on Man. Goerdie Ahmed is a respected poster.

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

All evidence points to - it was a howler. Why else was it overturned. If there was an inch of a chance the ref made the right call they would have stood by the ref. Instead its been chalked off. Just deep that for a moment.

Referee + VAR + PGMOL all said it was the correct decision but they have been told they are wrong.

Only howlers get overturned.

 

[IMMY69]

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

All evidence points to - it was a howler. Why else was it overturned. If there was an inch of a chance the ref made the right call they would have stood by the ref. Instead its been chalked off. Just deep that for a moment.

Referee + VAR + PGMOL all said it was the correct decision but they have been told they are wrong.

Only howlers get overturned.

Do you think they would have overturned the decision had Arsenal lost that game?

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

All evidence points to - it was a howler. Why else was it overturned. If there was an inch of a chance the ref made the right call they would have stood by the ref. Instead its been chalked off. Just deep that for a moment.

Referee + VAR + PGMOL all said it was the correct decision but they have been told they are wrong.

Only howlers get overturned.

My opinion hasn't change, just as it didn't over the Bruno Fernandes one

Again, I go back to the very start, it's not one of those that I say is an absolute stonewall red card and there isn't the slightest bit of doubt. I even said if a yellow was given on field I wouldn't be up in arms about it

My main issue is the reaction to it, I think it's been absolutely absurd. You have Micah Richards calling it the worst decision in premier league history, you have Arsenal fans saying similar. It's one thing to say you think it's a poor decision but the furore and hyperbole has been absurd

Over the recent years I've grown a massive dislike to people that bleat on about referees, it's tedious and tiresome (and I say this as someone that probably did similar in the past) and I think managers like Klopp, Arteta in recent years have played their part in this. They are incapable of accepting defeat and in turn they just whinge and moan about referees

I had a friend message me after the Bournemouth game saying the referee was a disgrace, like seriously? We got schooled by Bournemouth from start to finish, we didn't lose to them because of the referee, it's because they were the better team by some distance

However football fans (and it's all teams, just some have louder voices) will go on about referees all the time and essentially they just want all decisions to go in their favour, unless that happens they'll whinge about referees at every opportunity they get

I could go on and on about this subject but I think fans could start by not making it out to be a bigger issue but I think they'll only do that if managers, players, pundits stop first

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Come on Man. Goerdie Ahmed is a respected poster.

Haha, don't worry about it, for a grown man he doesn't half act like a child, it's nothing new

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

All evidence points to - it was a howler. Why else was it overturned. If there was an inch of a chance the ref made the right call they would have stood by the ref. Instead its been chalked off. Just deep that for a moment.

Referee + VAR + PGMOL all said it was the correct decision but they have been told they are wrong.

Only howlers get overturned.

Who is the they?

The process is that the appeal goes to an independent fa commission, which includes former players I believe

And obviously they make their decision, they have no reason to back officials or PGMOL, it's whatever their opinion is on the matter

 

[Amjid Javed]

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

All evidence points to - it was a howler. Why else was it overturned. If there was an inch of a chance the ref made the right call they would have stood by the ref. Instead its been chalked off. Just deep that for a moment.

Referee + VAR + PGMOL all said it was the correct decision but they have been told they are wrong.

Only howlers get overturned.

The fact PGMOL are still back olivers decision, even after it was over turned is an embarrassment In itself.

Webb and the clowns he's managing will keep hiding behind their so called protocols rather than admitting they are wrong.

We've seen in past that VAR would rather protect their mates, then do what's honest and right for football.

 

[Amjid Javed]

He will still say its a red card in his opinion. Now his argument was that it was not a howler in his opinion.

He says he plays 5 side football and hates tackles like that. Yet then thinks the WWE moves that Joelinton does every weak is ok.

Let's be real was LMS foul, was it any worse then Chellinis foul on saka in euro finals, Its a tactical foul yet people acting like it some thing else.

The commission that overturned are all. Ex players, who clearly have enough common sense to have played the game and know that was never a red card.

Oliver thinks he's untouchable and thinks it's all about him on the pitch, trying to be the new Mike Dean.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

He says he plays 5 side football and hates tackles like that. Yet then thinks the WWE moves that Joelinton does every weak is ok.

Let's be real was LMS foul, was it any worse then Chellinis foul on saka in euro finals, Its a tactical foul yet people acting like it some thing else.

The commission that overturned are all. Ex players, who clearly have enough common sense to have played the game and know that was never a red card.

Oliver thinks he's untouchable and thinks it's all about him on the pitch, trying to be the new Mike Dean.

When did I say what Joelinton does every "weak" is okay?

There's been occasions when he was lucky to avoid being sent off but there's many times people just whinge about what he does, like the Arsenal fans that think he fouled Gabriel (funnily enough independent panel said that goal was fine but didn't stop a lot of Arsenal fans still going on about it)

 

[MK7Z]

Who is the they?

The process is that the appeal goes to an independent fa commission, which includes former players I believe

And obviously they make their decision, they have no reason to back officials or PGMOL, it's whatever their opinion is on the matter

They being the panel;. My point is the appeal was to have the decision over turned. So it was up to the evidence provided and it had to be sufficient enough to overturn. If there was a chance that it was the correct decision then do you think they would have overturned? I am thinking along the lines of "beyond reasonable doubt".

I don't claim to know the appeals process however I do know that not many red cards are overturned in this day and age especially since VAR...unless its a howler. Which this was.

Also I think its important to note that Arsenal won the game so you cant really say we are "moaning" because we lost.

I didn't know about the Joelinton foul going to a panel, i moved on from it. Why did it go to a panel? Was it an official appeals panel? or was it some review people. I don't know the process that well. Even if it was deemed the wrong decision there were no repercussions with that one so not sure if them agreeing with the refs call made any difference to anything other than antagonise fans by saying it was a foul.

Honestly speaking. I have spoken to a lot of people about this, fans of different clubs. Seen lots of Podcasts with ex footballers, MOTD Ref Watch on Sky etc
Not 1 person said they thought it was a red and all said it was a horrific decision. Apart from you. LOL

I respect you sticking to your opinion but I think you might have black and white striped glasses this time

 

[MK7Z]

Also when its the same ref making calls against a particular team it will eventually boil over. That's what happened. He has made some shocking calls against us.

EVERY team gets bad decisions against them.

Also him being called the best referee in the PL and doing things like this is a bad precedent. Not only against Arsenal. He is the one who didn't give a pen for the Doku challenge last season against Liverpool as an example.

He gets high profile games and it makes it about him. It was always going to boil over.

Abuse is wrong and I have made my feelings clear earlier in the thread, however to say he received abuse and it was reported to the police and it being found it was from a few weeks ago proves the PGMOL don't care about the game its more about protecting their mates.

Also the David Coote interview coming out about him coming out so everyone feels sorry for him. Who cares about whether he likes men? Its about being a referee and cussing out a manager that caused his downfall along with him sniffing the touchline powder.

But no lets make it about the poor refs cos they are told they are rubbish at their job so we must protect their sensitive souls while they go out party and spend time with ladies of the night in the far east.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Also when its the same ref making calls against a particular team it will eventually boil over. That's what happened. He has made some shocking calls against us.

EVERY team gets bad decisions against them.

Also him being called the best referee in the PL and doing things like this is a bad precedent. Not only against Arsenal. He is the one who didn't give a pen for the Doku challenge last season against Liverpool as an example.

He gets high profile games and it makes it about him. It was always going to boil over.

Abuse is wrong and I have made my feelings clear earlier in the thread, however to say he received abuse and it was reported to the police and it being found it was from a few weeks ago proves the PGMOL don't care about the game its more about protecting their mates.

Also the David Coote interview coming out about him coming out so everyone feels sorry for him. Who cares about whether he likes men? Its about being a referee and cussing out a manager that caused his downfall along with him sniffing the touchline powder.

But no lets make it about the poor refs cos they are told they are rubbish at their job so we must protect their sensitive souls while they go out party and spend time with ladies of the night in the far east.

Talking of Doku challenges, it's on the FA website as an example of a high foot challenge. The irony of it not been given by Oliver.

I don't really like getting into the whole referee discussion usually. But it's clear in the case of coote, Oliver etc.. these guys aren't officiating fairly and their is plenty of visual proof of it.

Jarred gillett is another one as well..

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

They being the panel;. My point is the appeal was to have the decision over turned. So it was up to the evidence provided and it had to be sufficient enough to overturn. If there was a chance that it was the correct decision then do you think they would have overturned? I am thinking along the lines of "beyond reasonable doubt".

I don't claim to know the appeals process however I do know that not many red cards are overturned in this day and age especially since VAR...unless its a howler. Which this was.

Also I think its important to note that Arsenal won the game so you cant really say we are "moaning" because we lost.

I didn't know about the Joelinton foul going to a panel, i moved on from it. Why did it go to a panel? Was it an official appeals panel? or was it some review people. I don't know the process that well. Even if it was deemed the wrong decision there were no repercussions with that one so not sure if them agreeing with the refs call made any difference to anything other than antagonise fans by saying it was a foul.

Honestly speaking. I have spoken to a lot of people about this, fans of different clubs. Seen lots of Podcasts with ex footballers, MOTD Ref Watch on Sky etc
Not 1 person said they thought it was a red and all said it was a horrific decision. Apart from you. LOL

I respect you sticking to your opinion but I think you might have black and white striped glasses this time

I was just challenging the part about them sticking with the ref if there was the slightest bit of chance. The panel involved have no reason to stick with the referee, there is no referee on the panel so solidarity is out of the equation

It's not the first decision overturned, the Bruno Fernandes happened earlier this season (can't recall of any others off the top of my head) and it won't be the last

I have no issue with the process, there is an appeals process and it was followed.

I'm definitely not the only one, lol but I totally accept mine is the minority opinion (I probably won't be about to help myself but Jason Cundy agrees with me, lol) and I'm totally fine with that, I'll always go with what I believe rather than what the masses think. I do think there has been an element of hysteria with the decision and people have got carried away with it, calling it the worst decision in premier league history is nonsensical (funnily enough someone on twitter shared the Emerson tackle, where he got sent off against Arsenal a couple of years back, don't remember an outcry at that time)

My black and white glasses have no bearing on this one, you will finish will above us so him being sent off in a game you won is irrelevant

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Also when its the same ref making calls against a particular team it will eventually boil over. That's what happened. He has made some shocking calls against us.

EVERY team gets bad decisions against them.

Also him being called the best referee in the PL and doing things like this is a bad precedent. Not only against Arsenal. He is the one who didn't give a pen for the Doku challenge last season against Liverpool as an example.

He gets high profile games and it makes it about him. It was always going to boil over.

Abuse is wrong and I have made my feelings clear earlier in the thread, however to say he received abuse and it was reported to the police and it being found it was from a few weeks ago proves the PGMOL don't care about the game its more about protecting their mates.

Also the David Coote interview coming out about him coming out so everyone feels sorry for him. Who cares about whether he likes men? Its about being a referee and cussing out a manager that caused his downfall along with him sniffing the touchline powder.

But no lets make it about the poor refs cos they are told they are rubbish at their job so we must protect their sensitive souls while they go out party and spend time with ladies of the night in the far east.

Not sure of your age but I've been watching/following football for over 30 years

People complained about referees way back, they complain about them now and they will complain about them forever, I guarantee that will never change

Arsenal have had 4 red cards this season and the general consensus from them is they were hard done by on all of them

You can get your wish of Oliver not refereeing your games and you will just target the next guy and the next guy and the next

Just to be clear, I'm using Arsenal as the reference here but I also hear our fans complain about the referee and I think it's just tedious and boring and usually a way of avoiding the harsh truth of their team not being good enough

 

[ads101]

Referee decisions have been shambolic. And I feel like Arsenal has almost been used as guinea pigs for introduction of new rules. Out of 4 red cards this season, 3 were wrongly given IMO. Thats crazy. The first two I get time wasting is a concern but common sense needs to be applied, and Arsenal were penalised for it, other teams like Man City did worse and kicked the ball away and got nothing. Even the Saliba one, it was probably a red but it was still way far away from goal (as the claim was it stopped a goal winning opportunity), probably not going to actually be a goal, and not a potentially dangerous foul. Yes I think it’s a red, but again if given a yellow I don’t think anyone would have made too much of a fuss.

I know every team complains about referee decisions. Why I usually think conspiracy theories and biased against Arsenal are not true. But this is probably the first season where I look at it, and just think it’s a little insane. Even then putting it down to bad luck. And it has impacted the title race, while liverpool would still be top almost certainly and still favourites to win the league, the gap would have been small, and sizeable enough to potentially realistically turn around.

 

[IMMY69]

Since we're still in ref rant mode...

I still shudder when I recall how 'the best ref going around' gave two yellow cards to Martinelli for two different offences immediately after he committed the second offence...Has this ever happened before, has it happened since then?
Letter of the law? Sure.. Common Sense, very much doubt it.

Rice's second yellow sending off this season, again the same ref.... Plenty of doubt around that decision with regards to intent, did rice kick the ball away to delay the game, how many Brighton players were actually in Arsenal's half... Letter of the law? Sure... Common Sense, very much doubt it.

Same game, first half, Brighton's player kicks the ball away, yellow card? Nope.

I could go on.. and yes these things happen to other teams but here we have the same ref doing it against the same team.

Ok rant over

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Since we're still in ref rant mode...

I still shudder when I recall how 'the best ref going around' gave two yellow cards to Martinelli for two different offences immediately after he committed the second offence...Has this ever happened before, has it happened since then?
Letter of the law? Sure.. Common Sense, very much doubt it.

Rice's second yellow sending off this season, again the same ref.... Plenty of doubt around that decision with regards to intent, did rice kick the ball away to delay the game, how many Brighton players were actually in Arsenal's half... Letter of the law? Sure... Common Sense, very much doubt it.

Same game, first half, Brighton's player kicks the ball away, yellow card? Nope.

I could go on.. and yes these things happen to other teams but here we have the same ref doing it against the same team.

Ok rant over

I take your point but to clarify this was Chris Kavanagh not Oliver

 

[MK7Z]

I take your point but to clarify this was Chris Kavanagh not Oliver

I think he meant Trossard vs City for pretty much the same offense

 

[MK7Z]

Just to clarify before the cavalry gets here to say to us we are excuses FC. Arsenal have not been good enough to win the league this season. Liverpool have and are top of the league rightly so.

Calling out bad refereeing decisions against us this season but also agreeing that we have not been good enough can both be right. Granted certain games hinged on the decisions however there have been a plenty of games where we have not performed to the required standard.

Arsenals focus should be to get a front man in this window. Looking very unlikely as the clock is ticking.

 

[IMMY69]

I take your point but to clarify this was Chris Kavanagh not Oliver

yep. my mistake.. it was the city game..

But it does come down to consistency.

The thing that upset me about the Wolves game was that the ref was never sent to the monitor and the still footage made it look so much worse than it was. But no common sense was applied. VAR/England knowing that it's an unusual straight red card, in that where it is from and how innocuous it looks in real time should at least have asked him to see the TV screen.

I know in the end alls well that ends well but what if Arsenal lost that game? Also, the precedent it sets going forward, are refs going to show a red for a similar tackles 70 yards from goal and what if they don't? It's concerning that the FA overuled the red card but the PGMOL are doubling down on the decision.

 

[IMMY69]

Just to clarify before the cavalry gets here to say to us we are excuses FC. Arsenal have not been good enough to win the league this season. Liverpool have and are top of the league rightly so.

Calling out bad refereeing decisions against us this season but also agreeing that we have not been good enough can both be right. Granted certain games hinged on the decisions however there have been a plenty of games where we have not performed to the required standard.

Arsenals focus should be to get a front man in this window. Looking very unlikely as the clock is ticking.

It's frustrating because we've only lost two games so far, drawn too many and we're so close you can almost feel the trophy... A top striker short of winning... Easier said then done I know but had we strengthen this position in the summer we could have been top now or at least within a few points of Liverpool....

 

[Amjid Javed]

Whilst the LMS red card was wrong.

The rest of Arsenal fan base need to stop complaining about the other 3 which were valid red cards

Rice Had no need to flick the ball away vs brighton, it's was niave and stupid. Just because others aren't punished doesn't mean Rice was guilty here.

Also in same game Partey on a yellow card deliberately pulls back a Brighton player and was lucky to stay on pitch.

Trossard was plain stupid, his 1st yellow was silly. Then he decides to jump into a player with no intention to win ball, so a valid 2nd yellow.

Saliba he's the last man, he pulls a player back its a red card.

Reality is our players need to stop giving these referees decisions to make with niaviety and stupidly in the case of 3 of the 4 reds.

 

[Amjid Javed]

It's frustrating because we've only lost two games so far, drawn too many and we're so close you can almost feel the trophy... A top striker short of winning... Easier said then done I know but had we strengthen this position in the summer we could have been top now or at least within a few points of Liverpool....

We aren't just a top striker away from the title now..

There are quite a few glaring gaps in this squad, every poor transfer window only makes those gaps worse.

We have won just 2 out 11 games vs sides in top 10 places in PL, drawing 7 of those. Draws are fine if you wanting top 4, not if you want to win titles.

The midfield most of this season has been very poor and that also needs to be addressed. The failures in cups just highlights a poor built squad.

Also the lack of creativity in team is a huge issues. Other then saka, no one regularly gets regular high goals and assists.

Some fans will complain thar Odegaard has been injured, but he has 1 goal from open play this season in PL, still dissapears in numerous games.

Yet you have topspin and Topbhangra boy thinking he's elite.

Arsenal need overhaul of entire front line apart from saka. The midfield will need a revamp.

Also some how try and keep saliba, whose probably thinking I can win trophies galore at Madrid

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

yep. my mistake.. it was the city game..

But it does come down to consistency.

The thing that upset me about the Wolves game was that the ref was never sent to the monitor and the still footage made it look so much worse than it was. But no common sense was applied. VAR/England knowing that it's an unusual straight red card, in that where it is from and how innocuous it looks in real time should at least have asked him to see the TV screen.

I know in the end alls well that ends well but what if Arsenal lost that game? Also, the precedent it sets going forward, are refs going to show a red for a similar tackles 70 yards from goal and what if they don't? It's concerning that the FA overuled the red card but the PGMOL are doubling down on the decision.

This is where I do sympathise with the officials, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place

Overwhelming consensus seems to be from fans that they don't like the game being re-refereed and they want the game to flow, which is why this whole clear and obvious was brought into play, so it would be for those situations where the referee missed something

We'll only know when the audio is released but I suspect Oliver has said he's caught him with the studs, which has then raked down to the foot and it's endangered the player. When watching it VAR will watch the incident and if it's as he has described they'll not get involved

Where I do think there is an issue with refereeing is with VAR I think referees are less likely to make big calls, almost like they err on the side of caution and think if it's a howler I'll be bailed out. Some of these referees tend to work their way up the leagues and there is no VAR there so the way they referee ends up changing

 

[IMMY69]

We aren't just a top striker away from the title now..

There are quite a few glaring gaps in this squad, every poor transfer window only makes those gaps worse.

We have won just 2 out 11 games vs sides in top 10 places in PL, drawing 7 of those. Draws are fine if you wanting top 4, not if you want to win titles.

The midfield most of this season has been very poor and that also needs to be addressed. The failures in cups just highlights a poor built squad.

Also the lack of creativity in team is a huge issues. Other then saka, no one regularly gets regular high goals and assists.

Some fans will complain thar Odegaard has been injured, but he has 1 goal from open play this season in PL, still dissapears in numerous games.

Yet you have topspin and Topbhangra boy thinking he's elite.

Arsenal need overhaul of entire front line apart from saka. The midfield will need a revamp.

Also some how try and keep saliba, whose probably thinking I can win trophies galore at Madrid

I know there are positions that we need to fill.
But I'm convinced that several of the drawn games would have come our way if we had a decent striker...

 

[IMMY69]

^^^
Of course you could argue that we've been punching as we're a Gabriel or Saliba injury away from dropping out of the top four...

In an ideal world we would have proper back-ups for the midfield, CB and both wingers.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I know there are positions that we need to fill.
But I'm convinced that several of the drawn games would have come our if we had a decent striker...

Yeah of course a striker would have made a huge difference.

Our problem is that the manager gers carried away when we spank teams 4 id 5 nil and thinks the goals from different players outweighs goals from a killer striker.

In the tight games where chances are at a premium we don't have that killer.

The 91 goals last season gets way to much hype, the reality is when it mattered most the goals were there. Its all good people singing havertz sing when you hammering Burnley, sheff utd. West ham etc.. yet in games vs man city, villa etc. Our strikers did nothing.

Same goes in the cups. You need a gun man to make difference

Arteta doesn't want a star striker, big personality, he wants little boys who just say yes mikel, yes mikel

 

[IMMY69]

Ben White is back in training, I think he has been a massive loss for us in that he could have played in Saliba's position, and his link up play with Odeguard and Saka... Also, we wouldn't have had to play Partey at RB...

 

[Amjid Javed]

^^^
Of course you could argue that we've been punching as we're a Gabriel or Saliba injury away from dropping out of the top four...

In an ideal world we would have proper back-ups for the midfield, CB and both wingers.

If we end season trophyless (highly likely ) and Madrid put a huge offer in for saliba (again highly likely) then don't be shocked if Arsenal cash in.

Arsenal wage bill is once again an issue and this is another reason why clubs looking to sell players, before getting players in.

Internship of Gabriel, id make him captain over Odegaard. Gabriel turns up in big games.

 

[IMMY69]

Yeah of course a striker would have made a huge difference.

Our problem is that the manager gers carried away when we spank teams 4 id 5 nil and thinks the goals from different players outweighs goals from a killer striker.

In the tight games where chances are at a premium we don't have that killer.

The 91 goals last season gets way to much hype, the reality is when it mattered most the goals were there. Its all good people singing havertz sing when you hammering Burnley, sheff utd. West ham etc.. yet in games vs man city, villa etc. Our strikers did nothing.

Same goes in the cups. You need a gun man to make difference

Arteta doesn't want a star striker, big personality, he wants little boys who just say yes mikel, yes mikel

Mate I'm not going to argue with you on this one.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Mate I'm not going to argue with you on this one.

A lot of strikers were put off in summer from joining as they were pretty much told they would be back up to havertz. If that's the club's pulling point to a player. Then players will look to stay elsewhere

 

[IMMY69]

This is where I do sympathise with the officials, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place

Overwhelming consensus seems to be from fans that they don't like the game being re-refereed and they want the game to flow, which is why this whole clear and obvious was brought into play, so it would be for those situations where the referee missed something

We'll only know when the audio is released but I suspect Oliver has said he's caught him with the studs, which has then raked down to the foot and it's endangered the player. When watching it VAR will watch the incident and if it's as he has described they'll not get involved

Where I do think there is an issue with refereeing is with VAR I think referees are less likely to make big calls, almost like they err on the side of caution and think if it's a howler I'll be bailed out. Some of these referees tend to work their way up the leagues and there is no VAR there so the way they referee ends up changing

If you ask me, frankly I think VAR has made the whole experience a hell of a lot worse...
You celebrate a goal, then it gets chalked off even though the flag has stayed down...
Then you see a yellow card for a foul but VAR doesn't intervene as it was a yellow, and then a red card but the ref is not even sent to the TV...

 

[IMMY69]

Whilst the LMS red card was wrong.

The rest of Arsenal fan base need to stop complaining about the other 3 which were valid red cards

Rice Had no need to flick the ball away vs brighton, it's was niave and stupid. Just because others aren't punished doesn't mean Rice was guilty here.

Also in same game Partey on a yellow card deliberately pulls back a Brighton player and was lucky to stay on pitch.

Trossard was plain stupid, his 1st yellow was silly. Then he decides to jump into a player with no intention to win ball, so a valid 2nd yellow.

Saliba he's the last man, he pulls a player back its a red card.

Reality is our players need to stop giving these referees decisions to make with niaviety and stupidly in the case of 3 of the 4 reds.

Its more about the consistency and application of common sense for me...

 

[IMMY69]

A lot of strikers were put off in summer from joining as they were pretty much told they would be back up to havertz. If that's the club's pulling point to a player. Then players will look to stay elsewhere

PL
CL
FA Cup
League Cup

That's four competitions, surely any player who is worth their salt would accept a position at a club that has Havitz (and Jesus) as strikers...

 

[Amjid Javed]

PL
CL
FA Cup
League Cup

That's four competitions, surely any player who is worth their salt would accept a position at a club that has Havitz (and Jesus) as strikers...

We need a top end striker thats an upgrade on both those players, whilst no player should be guaranteed a starter. Telling someone you are back up to havertz and Jesus, id be staying else where. Clubs fault here 1) over depending on players who can't deliver 2) then telling other strikers they would be a back up.

Havertz is not a title winning 1st choice striker, the guys isn't even on girouds level.

The longer we dragged out now going for isak the more it's going to cost. Newcastle are well within their rights now to demand 120M+

Also goekeres and oshimen have released clauses, so if club really wanted them they would have paid the money.

 

[MK7Z]

You are right there is no indication but in football things change. I would hope Arsenal would test the waters and if he wants out then it may reduce the price a bit time will tell.

Ollie Watkins before Durans suspension was no longer 1st choice at Villa. I think Arsenal could try him. Big Arsenal fan to and I am pretty sure in an interview he has said its his dream to play for Arsenal or something along those lines. Things like this can help a transfer whereas with Isak you are right its just noise as he is the most in form striker.... Much like Ivan Toney a few years back and all the noise was Arsenal want Toney.

Isak is obviously thrice the player Toney was but you see my point.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Its more about the consistency and application of common sense for me...

100% agree on application.

That's the part which annoys me.

The FA says they will apply x,y,z law based on certain criteria. Then essentially pick and choose when apply it.

This isn't so called "subjective" like certain fans call it. Its incompetence from referees

We get these silly spikes where they will book players for push or pull in penalty area, time wasting, kick ball away etc.. then all of sudden not apply it.

So I have no sympathy for these refs.

If uve outlined your reasoning, then apply it all the time.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The whole subjectivity nonsense needs to be put to rest.

Everyone knows that the FA have set up thresholds and criteria for fouls etc.. how they do VAR and hide behind protocol.

Prime example is if there is so no so called clear and obvious reason to overturn original decision. Which is just a load of , how about just give right decision. This rule in cricket annoys me as well.

Now you the "the referee has explained his decision articulately so he doesn't need to be refered to the screen, again a load of .

Plain and simple if you've set out guidelines, rules on how to do things then do that all the time. The picking and choosing of application isn't subjectivity, it's called being a retard referee

 

[Amjid Javed]

If Henry, giroud, Campbell, kalstrom, Denis suarez were still playing wed have signed one of them on loan this January

 

[MK7Z]

If Henry, giroud, Campbell, kalstrom, Denis suarez were still playing wed have signed one of them on loan this January

I'd take Watkins tbh.

Lot of talk online about the price and his age. Who cares. Complain when dont spend complain when do spend.

Cant win sometimes

 

[Amjid Javed]

@MK7Z watkins would be a huge upgrade on havertz and Jesus, there a lot of players that would easy upgrades on both.

Villa may sell, as they have to keep balancing books due to PSR, also they are looking at getting Felixstowe from Chelsea, also they have signed donny malen.

Watkins would give us something different, but he plays in a team which is direct, gets ball forward and quickly. At times route 1. Yet we play the boring recycling keep ball, so that would have to change to get the best out of a player like watkins

I'd take watkins. But style of play would have to change for us to get him firing.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I like Watkins, he is a good player, has many good attributes and whilst he's a better striker than Watkins I'm not sure he's really clinical enough

Think one of the criticisms of him is that he needs a fair few chances before scoring, Duran looks more clinical to me

 

[MK7Z]

I like Watkins, he is a good player, has many good attributes and whilst he's a better striker than Watkins I'm not sure he's really clinical enough

Think one of the criticisms of him is that he needs a fair few chances before scoring, Duran looks more clinical to me

I have seen Duran when he starts and he looks a different player to when he is a impact sub. I have liked Watkins over the years and he would be a welcome addition.

The cynic in me says this is just the club trying to make out they tried but didn't succeed. Lets wait and see.

I said a short while ago Watkins would be attainable not sure why they have waited this deep into the window to make a bid.

Needs a lot of pieces to fall into place for it to happen though. One thing for sure. Watkins will move to Arsenal at the 1st opportunity.

I would still go for Isak in the summer!!

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I have seen Duran when he starts and he looks a different player to when he is a impact sub. I have liked Watkins over the years and he would be a welcome addition.

The cynic in me says this is just the club trying to make out they tried but didn't succeed. Lets wait and see.

I said a short while ago Watkins would be attainable not sure why they have waited this deep into the window to make a bid.

Needs a lot of pieces to fall into place for it to happen though. One thing for sure. Watkins will move to Arsenal at the 1st opportunity.

I would still go for Isak in the summer!!

I always find it strange when clubs do this, often it's like you say they want to say they tried

Other times it could be a case of clubs are more likely to sell towards the end, especially nowadays if they are sailing close to the PSR limit

 

[Amjid Javed]

I like Watkins, he is a good player, has many good attributes and whilst he's a better striker than Watkins I'm not sure he's really clinical enough

Think one of the criticisms of him is that he needs a fair few chances before scoring, Duran looks more clinical to me

Well Arsenal have two currently, one can't stay fit and the other misses 2 or 3 sitters a game. Also goes missing in games vs big 6, cup games and in knock out European games for Arsenal.

Watkins is miles better than any strikers we have.

I've seen some online people cry about his age, who gives a ****. Not every player is about long term investment or do they have a sell on value. Arsenal need players to get them over the line now.

Also he's PL proven as well so won't need to adjustment.

He's on 130K a week aswell.

If Arsenal got 3 seasons out of him, then job done.

This club spunked 65M on a failure on havertz and they say watkins ain't worth 60M+

 

[Amjid Javed]

I always find it strange when clubs do this, often it's like you say they want to say they tried

Other times it could be a case of clubs are more likely to sell towards the end, especially nowadays if they are sailing close to the PSR limit

Arsenal always do it as a "we tried tactic" seen it way to often

Just like how club put 92M offer for Thomas lemar

Other so called offers, knowing its likely to be rejected.

Also villa who do want jaao Felix, would need time to get a replacement in.

Duran looks a good off the bench impact player, completely different when you got to play from start every week

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Well Arsenal have two currently, one can't stay fit and the other misses 2 or 3 sitters a game. Also goes missing in games vs big 6, cup games and in knock out European games for Arsenal.

Watkins is miles better than any strikers we have.

I've seen some online people cry about his age, who gives a ****. Not every player is about long term investment or do they have a sell on value. Arsenal need players to get them over the line now.

Also he's PL proven as well so won't need to adjustment.

He's on 130K a week aswell.

If Arsenal got 3 seasons out of him, then job done.

This club spunked 65M on a failure on havertz and they say watkins ain't worth 60M+

I dare say. If Arsenal win the Title or Champions league, you will go AWOL For the foreseeable future from these board's.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I have seen Duran when he starts and he looks a different player to when he is a impact sub. I have liked Watkins over the years and he would be a welcome addition.

The cynic in me says this is just the club trying to make out they tried but didn't succeed. Lets wait and see.

I said a short while ago Watkins would be attainable not sure why they have waited this deep into the window to make a bid.

Needs a lot of pieces to fall into place for it to happen though. One thing for sure. Watkins will move to Arsenal at the 1st opportunity.

I would still go for Isak in the summer!!

Same thoughts on Duran, it's different playing as super sub to starter

Trossard is like that a good 12th man, starter.

Also if club wanted a striker thar badly, he must have been on list ages ago. Why wait till end of window, when we had so many fixtures at start of January.

All a little to late as usual.

Also putting offer in just before villa play celtic tonight, again shows this club does things in stupid ways.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I dare say. If Arsenal win the Title or Champions league, you will go AWOL For the foreseeable future from these board's.

Why would I go AWOL?, I've been on here since 2004, never dissapeared. You must be getting confused with Topspin and Top (Arteta fan boy) who dissapear as soon as their predictions go wrong.

I support Arsenal and whole reason I want a better manager and players is so they win titles.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Why would I go AWOL?, I've been on here since 2004, never dissapeared. You must be getting confused with Topspin and Top (Arteta fan boy) who dissapear as soon as their predictions go wrong.

I support Arsenal and whole reason I want a better manager and players is so they win titles.

Joking bro. Agree. Your constructive criticism, and shortcomings of the squad/Manager have Merit.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Well Arsenal have two currently, one can't stay fit and the other misses 2 or 3 sitters a game. Also goes missing in games vs big 6, cup games and in knock out European games for Arsenal.

Watkins is miles better than any strikers we have.

I've seen some online people cry about his age, who gives a ****. Not every player is about long term investment or do they have a sell on value. Arsenal need players to get them over the line now.

Also he's PL proven as well so won't need to adjustment.

He's on 130K a week aswell.

If Arsenal got 3 seasons out of him, then job done.

This club spunked 65M on a failure on havertz and they say watkins ain't worth 60M+

I agree with this

There's rumours of Duran to Saudi so if that happens then no way do Villa sell Watkins as well

It begs the question, if Arsenal have the money to bid for Watkins then they should be meeting the release clause for Gyokeres/Osimhen