cricketjoshila
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Winning a test match is a team effort not individual effort.
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Contact the PP Team
'Bumrah has less threatening performances than Shaheen in all formats' : Aaqib Javed
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Winning a test match is a team effort not individual effort.
cricketjoshila
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How many wickets for Ambrose in the subcontinent?
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If he continues for a bit longer he will be.
But if God forbid his career was to end today then his legacy will be similar to Ryan Harris.
Buffet
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Nah, long past that stage.
160 international wickets vs 400 international wickets with dominating performances in WC in ODI/T20
Five 5-fers vs Ten 5-fers in tests
Ab Fan
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Very insightful thought. A wicket taker who got dropped after a humiliating loss vs Bangladesh.
RyanRyan10
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Such losses aren't humiliating anymore for the Pakistan team. They are losing to every random cricket team that exists.
You’re quoting from 2022! Not after the Bangladesh game.
WTC final - wicketless. He either choked or is not a great wicket taker? Which one is it?
Shami is like one of the greatest odi bowlers of all time and he is as good as Johnson/better than starc and close to hazlewood in tests
Shami is like one of the greatest odi bowlers of all time and he is as good as Johnson/better than starc and l
Lool this is too much.
Vikram1989
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I can add one more point.At mcg, in last bgt bumrah knocked of Smith early and cummins after a stubborn stand.He took only 2 wickets but imp ones in the context. .Bumrah always makes life easy by removing the best ones like root, smith etc.In asia cup, he made hell for babar ,it's a psychological blow.
Mamoon
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Bumping such threads serve not purpose other than to mock a cricketer like Shaheen who has achieved far more in his life than the person who bumped this thread ever will.
As far as Bumrah is concerned, there is no doubt he is an excellent bowler but I am not interested in making him my father.
I have seen better bowlers than him and I am sure I will see better bowlers than him in the future.
As far as Indian fans are concerned, I can understand why they cannot contain their excitement and views him as the best thing since sliced bread.
India is by far the most pathetic and least talented cricket nation ever when it comes to fast bowling pedigree, so Bumrah is a godsend for you untalented people and genetically deprived people.
Bumrah to Indian fast bowling is what Salah is to Egyptian football.
As far as Bumrah is concerned, there is no doubt he is an excellent bowler but I am not interested in making him my father.
I have seen better bowlers than him and I am sure I will see better bowlers than him in the future.
As far as Indian fans are concerned, I can understand why they cannot contain their excitement and views him as the best thing since sliced bread.
India is by far the most pathetic and least talented cricket nation ever when it comes to fast bowling pedigree, so Bumrah is a godsend for you untalented people and genetically deprived people.
Bumrah to Indian fast bowling is what Salah is to Egyptian football.
Skill set wise, the only bowler more complete than Bumrah was Wasim. Seam, Swing, reverse, yorker, slower, bouncer, Bumrah is literally a master of all those skills. Even guys like Donald or Steyn was not as complete as Bumrah. The question of longevity is the only thing, that he lacks.
Is Archer one of those bowlers you have seen who is better than Bumrah ?
big_gamer007
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Your post shows the general trend where people have different views about what counts as “skill”/“talent”
Wasim was more versatile and could do more with the ball.
McGrath was one of the most consistent bowlers ever.
Now most people don’t take consistency in the picture when they rate skills. It requires just as much skills to bowl 6 balls in an over on the same line and length in the good length area over after over, as it is to move the bowl both ways.
Wasim was more pleasing to eyes and had more unplayable deliveries, being a left handed bowler he had the benefit of bowling from angles which batsmen are not as comfortable as against right hand bowlers. However, McGraths consistency was just too good and ultimately it made him more successful over Wasim.
For McGrath vs Wasim skill comparison it call comes down to individual choice on how much rating does one give to “consistency” while calculating skills.
Is this mamoon? Or the new guy named namoona lol
Genetically deprived and untalented you say. But India is had the best pace attack since 2015. Times have changed. Bangladesh have better pace bowlers than Pakistan now.
Funnily enough ever since drs, no ball umpires, non biased umpiring came into play, pakistan has declined.
Nikhil_cric
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I sort of agree with this. PAK is more naturally talented when it comes to pace than India are.
Which is why it's an even bigger shocker that India's pace attack has been more effective across formats for a long time now.
At this rate, even Shaheen won't have a half decent Test career and he was the most rated of all the young PAK quicks.
There is no aspect of bowling where wasim is actually better than mcg. Wasim can bat and that's the only advantage he holds. As a bowler nobody comes close to mcg. Not even wasim. Not steyn either who is better than wasim
Reverse, new ball swing, yorker, wasim was better than McGrath in all of them. McGrath was of course a master of utilizing seam movement and challenging batman's technique in the corridor of uncertainty.
big_gamer007
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What?
Did you even watch Wasim play or are you basing your opinions through Cricinfo/youtube shorts?
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I am just saying mcg was a better bowler by far. Wasim was more stylish.
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With all the superior talent and genes , Pak couldnt win a single medal in olympics until Neeraj Chopra helped Arshad replace his damaged javelin which even Pak govt didnt help. India still won more medals than Pakistan even in this olympic
India's all time gold silver medal tally at Olympics, Asian events ,Commonwealth games etc , be it in badminton , wrestling , shooting, boxing , hockey ( yes hockey ) , athletics, billiards , snooker, is head and shoulders above Pakistan Sri Lanka Nepal and many other asian countries combined tally. So much so for ur talents and genes.
And sending u 2 months supply of burnol . bet u wud need a lot of it after today
mominsaigol
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Bumrah isn't really better then waqar and Imran in their primes but he's more consistent 100%.
But the issue is, people cite waqar's banana swings as ball tampering and I can't prove or disprove it.
mominsaigol
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A few months ago he was saying Bumrah is > Any pacer that Pakistan has ever produced besides Imran and wasim.
Now he's saying India is not his daddy despite india being his daddy for 10 years prior to a switch lol
Buffet
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You can read the entire article. Bumrah, Steyn etc would have ran riots if they could do what Pringle did.
------------------------------
Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."
Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.
After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"
On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.
"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."
However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."
Although the umpires did not check the ball during each session, they did have it during intervals and at the close. And as the game wore on, Pringle became deliberately obvious in an attempt to get a reaction, even gouging the ball as he talked to the umpire. Still nothing was said.
So eagerly was he vandalizing the ball that at one stage he cut himself on the jagged bottle top. Even the sight of a bowler with blood freely flowing from a sliced finger did not cause any disquiet as far as the officials were concerned. Pringle finished with 11 for 152 after taking 2 for 190 in the first two matches
As old as the hills
The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invas
RexRex
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You're not fooling anybody, we know u have a poster of Bumrah in your bedroom.
mominsaigol
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I'm aware, we'll just have to agree to disagree.You can read the entire article. Bumrah, Steyn etc would have ran riots if they could do what Pringle did.
------------------------------
Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."
Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.
After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"
On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.
"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."
However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."
Although the umpires did not check the ball during each session, they did have it during intervals and at the close. And as the game wore on, Pringle became deliberately obvious in an attempt to get a reaction, even gouging the ball as he talked to the umpire. Still nothing was said.
So eagerly was he vandalizing the ball that at one stage he cut himself on the jagged bottle top. Even the sight of a bowler with blood freely flowing from a sliced finger did not cause any disquiet as far as the officials were concerned. Pringle finished with 11 for 152 after taking 2 for 190 in the first two matches
As old as the hills
The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invaswww.espncricinfo.com
I've seen these guys bowl, but the thing is, I also know what waqar use to do in some matches seems something out of a science fiction novel. And he obviously cpuldnt do it every game. So the ball tampering allegations are fair.
this is like saying let me prepare an excuse.
All this proves is that Chris Pringle tampered with the ball.You can read the entire article. Bumrah, Steyn etc would have ran riots if they could do what Pringle did.
------------------------------
Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."
Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.
After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"
On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.
"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."
However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."
Although the umpires did not check the ball during each session, they did have it during intervals and at the close. And as the game wore on, Pringle became deliberately obvious in an attempt to get a reaction, even gouging the ball as he talked to the umpire. Still nothing was said.
So eagerly was he vandalizing the ball that at one stage he cut himself on the jagged bottle top. Even the sight of a bowler with blood freely flowing from a sliced finger did not cause any disquiet as far as the officials were concerned. Pringle finished with 11 for 152 after taking 2 for 190 in the first two matches
As old as the hills
The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invas
Martin Crowe also made another statement in that series, wonder why you don’t mention that. “Waqar is the best I have faced - ever.”
Hitman
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I feel the same. Either than or he suffers from dissociative identity disorder. I haven't seen a person change his views, opinion and taste so suddenly.
Buffet
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Tampering was done by many bowlers. It was question of how much some bowlers relied on that and allowed to get away before neutral umpires came in picture in 1994. Thanks to IK, cricket is better with neutral umpires.
W/L Pakistan at home ( 1985 - 1994) : 6
W/L Pakistan at home ( 1995 - 2004) : 1
Pakistan did not decline that much to crash from 6 to 1 in such a short period. Pakistan also had Inzzy, Moyo, Anwar, Saqlain, Akhtar in 1995-2004 period . No way team become drastically weaker starting from 1995 at home but maintained the same level of performance away.
W/L Pakistan at away ( 1985 - 1994) : 1
W/L Pakistan at away ( 1995 - 2004) : 1
Those magical develiries were not just about skill. Sure, you need skill and even now Steyn was caught in ball tamepring but imagine openly using bottle caps. Now you can't do that with so many cameras and neutral umpires checking the balls every over.
mominsaigol
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Yeah the comment about Bumrah being a God send to you untalented and genetically deprived people when India
A) Has the 5th largest economy in the world
B) Has the 3rd most no of billionaires after usa and China
C) Turned Banglaore into silicon valley
D) Has most no of software developers and engineers to the point that nasa and meta itself felt the need to hire and recruit + Indians are the ones who invented the machinery for Steven hawking to speak and write.
E) Has their own masterchef, Shark tank, reality tv shows, And their own Bollywood industry that rivals hollywood itself
F) Has the best universities in the world that are featured really high on QS rankings
H) is the sole reason cricket has the 2nd most viewers in the world after football.
J) has their own education syatem and built an economic prosperity that makes USA blush.
and to top it all off, the people of India achieved this, even though Britian virtually bankrupted them and exploited all their resources before leaving them for dry in 1947-1948?
How can the people of a country that achieved all this while being bankrupt in resources thanks to the UK in 1947 being untalented? India is at a position that if USA didn't intervene and didn't exist, UK would have been smoked into oblivion by now lol.
Vikram1989
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After seeing that comment, I recollected long ago u were the first one to express the doubt that his account may have got hacked or he is trying hard to win pak supporters .In a normal position Mammon will never say that and he knows not much difference among us in sub continent wise.I just hope he is fine
One thing Javed said after the 1992 series va England with a smile (basically for all those at the back that don’t get it). England were beaten by pace, not swing.
Imran Khan in the 2006 test series on the straight drive show was asked by Manjrekar why Irfan Pathan isn’t as successful as his Pakistani counterparts even though he gets reverse swing. Imran started laughing “reverse swing at 80mph is pointless”
Reverse swing is exacerbated by pace, real pace.
Shoaib Akhtar was still bowling the same banana balls as Waqar when he was bowling express.
What declined for Waqar was pace, not this nonsense of tampered balls.
And yes Waqar was a bit reliant on the inswinging yorker, so when he lost the pace, he lost the lethality.
big_gamer007
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That’s not what you said initially, you said there is no aspect of bowling where Wasim was better than McGrath, however, that is not true.
McGrath may well be the better bowler but your initial statement wasn’t correct.
Buffet
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Agree with this. McGrath was over all a better bowler but no way he had more skills than Wasim in all aspects. Wasim was a very skillful bowler.
Vikram1989
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Waqar in an interview said he when there was reverse swing, he was targeting the 6th wicket so that ball will goes and hits the off/middle.After watching the ball at 6th stump line ,any batsmen will come forward to drive the ball and get bowled. Its the common mode of dismissal in 94/95 eng test series I believe. I was thinking how does he know it will travel such distance upfront .if it was only skill, it became less and less after 95.Akram bowling to dravid in chennai test was skill and waqar did nothing in that match even though the ball was doing everything
Cover Drive Six
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Since many posters are talking about McGrath and Wasim, I would like to share my opinion here. There were so many great impact pace bowlers in that era, like Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, etc. But when it comes to skill, two names immediately come to mind: Akram and McGrath. Control over the ball is the top skill for any bowler.
Both had great control; they could bowl anywhere they wanted. Place a coin, and I'm sure they would hit the spot 9 out of 10 times. Both Akram and McGrath could pitch the ball wherever they wanted with great precision.
Both had great control; they could bowl anywhere they wanted. Place a coin, and I'm sure they would hit the spot 9 out of 10 times. Both Akram and McGrath could pitch the ball wherever they wanted with great precision.
Bumrah has already got more wickets than any Pakistani pacer ever in England, South Africa and Australia combined.
Buffet
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Not disputing the bold. It's well known. Point is different.
If you can openly tamper with the ball without any issue then with real pace, reverse becomes even more lathal. Pringle became master of reverse swing without express pace and not due to skills. Surely he would have been more lethal if he had express pace.
Akhtar was part of the team in period where W/L at home went from 6 to 1. He was bowling along side Wasim, Waqar , Saqlain and had batsmen like Inzzy, Moyo, Anwar etc.
Local.Dada
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Arshdeep vs Shaheen would be the right comparison. Bumrah-Shami-Siraj are way ahead.
1. Chris Pringle was an anomaly. Robin Smith said very recently that in the 1992 series, England’s further frustration of their suspicion was that they tried to tamper with the ball too - and the ball wouldn’t go off the straight!
2. There are multiple factors that can be attributed to losses, it’s not just down to reverse swing. Eg (I know it wasn’t at home) in 1998, shoaib took a 5fer with banana reverse swing (watch the yorker to Kallis - unplayable). Similar with his legendary 5fer vs Aus in Colombo. But your batsmen need to perform too. We also had multiple captains too in that period. You can’t put it down to reverse swing and what you allege with ball tampering.
Shoaib was bowling banana balls until 2010 and Pakistan were the most scrutinised team in history.
Bro, I like the fact you are providing some good analysis, but you can’t just use numbers and a one sided hypotheses.
Is it true?? In such a short career!!
Here people praise Wasim and waqar as if it's a sin to compare them with current bowlers...
NishanKonar
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Don't blame Mamoon or Sultan. These are desperate times for Pakistan fans. Bit like Man Utd fans who once dominated EPL but now get routinely slapped by their bitter rivals Liverpool even on their own home ground. And then get trolled badly on social media
Days like these bring out the worst in even the most sober & rational folks ! And to be fair its not 1 day. Last 12 months have really bad for Pakistan cricket. Pretty sure even the most pessimistic Pakistani fans never imagined a day will come when they get whitewashed by Bangladesh at home ! I mean Mamoon wud routinely lampoon his own team but even he wud have never imagined thing getting so bad !
mominsaigol
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@TheSultan isn't a pakistani obsessed fan boy though?
He mostly comments on the past like waqar vs Bumrah which is an ongoing debate across all of media.
NishanKonar
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Yeah fair enough. But my comment is on Pakistani fans in general. This is tough phase for Pakistani fans & to be honest for Pakistan nation as well. Political chaos, economic woes, soaring inflation. Pakistan is going thru a lot. Cricket is supposed to be source of solace & escape from daily drudgery & suffering but unfortunately the cricket team piles on more misery
I just hope things get well in Pakistan & the country recovers both in cricket & off it as well
mominsaigol
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It won't, Pakistani people are leaving the country. Usa is the land of opportunity where people look to head off to, either that or UK for friendly culture.
But lots of pakiatani people living in Australia, Canada, and other countries.
No one wants to stay in pakistan anymore.
NishanKonar
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All 200 million Pakistanis wont be able to escape. The fact that every Pakistani wants to leave is a sign of sense of hopelessness & dejection among the people. These humiliating losses just piles on the misery. And the to see Indians trolling o such days - even Benedictine monks wud lose their heads.
Vikram1989
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But what about youngsters who are still pursuing education? Can they make it out of pak after so many restrictions on immigration now a days?
Buffet
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Economic migration is always going to happen. It will happen more if sitaution looks poor with no sign of getting better.
Having said that Pakistan has 250M people. There will be plenty of talented and hard working people who will be still living in Pakistan. It just needs a good fucntioning system. Instead of relying on a person, institutions needs to develop and that will change the situation.
Just have a system to unleash human potential and country will do more than fine by going in right direction. I am an optimistic person and I think it will happen eventually. Quicker it happens, better it is for regular Joe.
Devadwal
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Nah Bumrah ATG legacy is almost sealed if he can perform countinue for next 4 year then he will be amongst best ever cricketer to Play cricket . Just need to win a world cup and A test series win in South Africa, NZ and England for India to become GOAT . Don't care about WTC Final
mominsaigol
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Obviously all 200M can't escape.
I'm speaking for people like myself. Easy for the middle class to escape. Their educated, speak English well and it's just about getting a job and getting pr shortly after.
It's not just usa, Canada, Australia and UK. Many places like NZ, Europe, Singapour etc exist. They usually get it if push comes to Shove and one country will eventually accept them.
Ofcourse for the lower class who don't have uni education and like babar have trouble speaking English and don't have professional skills then yeah, it's impossible.
mominsaigol
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Their so many developed countries in the world lol.
Immigration laws are getting stricter in usa and Canada but if you are skilled enough and get a job abroad then yeah pretty easy.
Plus it's not just usa, Australia, UK and Canada. Many places and plenty of options.
But yes ideally pakiatani people look at usa or UK the most.
Lol exactly - you and I and some others are under no illusions about the current pak team. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened sooner.
It doesn’t even hurt. Rather than fanboying over Shaheen and Babar in one of their biggest critics.
My comments on this thread right now is not some fanboy lashing out because we lost a couple of games to Bangladesh or lost to USA etc I’ve held all these opinions for a while.
I do take pride in our players from yesteryear. I’m surprised so many of our Pakistan fans don’t stand up. I always will.
A lot of Indian accusations would not have flown in the early years of PP.
NishanKonar
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Nothing personal. My point was I feel Pakistanis go overboard in hyping their own players. I m saying this as a neutral observer of Pakistani affairs. I mean most nations do the same - but Pakistanis do it at an altogether different level. That was all. Also when things go bad - Pakistani go to the other extreme end
Well, some would argue Indians do the same and moreso. I would say Indians are more intolerant than Pakistani fans. Take this thread for example - you’re all arguing to make someone who has played 36 tests an ATG (and some go that level further say he’s THE GOAT)! And if someone disagrees they don’t know anything, they are biased they are bitter etc etc.
I mean after years and years of international cricket there are many debates who’s the GOAT fast bowler, and there’s no definite correct answer. But all of a sudden we have to accept someone who’s played for 5/6 years as the GOAT. I mean listen to yourselves!
I don’t play him down - he definitely has the potential to to be ONE of the greats, but he’s not there yet and won’t be for a while.
No one is arguing Bumrah Is the goat. But he is at worst the second best fast bowler of the last 10 years after Cummins, and combined all formats easily the best. That surely merits a place in the list of atgs. He is not comparable to Imran,Marshall, Mcg, Wasim obviously. But his records can be compared with the likes of Holding or Roberts favorably.
Mamoon
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Tired of Indians seeking validation from Pakistani fans.
For us, Bumrah is a nobody. Our lasting memory will always be him bowling a no ball that led India to the most humiliating defeat ever in an ICC tournament final.
For us, Bumrah is a nobody. Our lasting memory will always be him bowling a no ball that led India to the most humiliating defeat ever in an ICC tournament final.
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Yes. And a small correction,
Bumrah has more number of wickets vs Aus, SA and Eng combined (home, away, neutral) than any Pakistani bowler in all of history.
Bumrah 130 wickets @ 21.53
Wasim 120 wickets @ 28.8
Waqar 104 @ 29.38
And Bumrah has also the 2nd highest number of away wickets in all of history for an Asian bowler vs Aus, Eng and SA combined (First is Kumblel)
He has 107 wickets @ 21.95
Wasim 96 wickets @ 27.7
Waqar 79 wickets @ 30
The above shows how Bumrah is for all purposes a GOAT already. He doesn't play much against the lesser teams and is hence robbed off a chance to get some cheap easy wickets and despite that averages under 21 in tests. Absolute freak. In fact 82% of all his test wickets have come vs Eng, SA or Aus - shows how damn good is he
Wasim and Waqar get rge benefit of being viewed through the colored lenses of history and nostalgia.
Mamoon
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Bumrah’s two no balls (CT 2016 and T20 WC 2016) has cost India two ICC trophies. So far, he has only repaid once in 2024. He is still in deficit.
Apart from this, not bothered about him. You can celebrate him in your own space, but expect validation from Pakistani fans for whom this ugly action bowler holds no significance whatsoever and at whose expense we enjoyed the most crushing victory in an ICC tournament final ever and may it stand the test of time like it has for 7 years and counting.
Apart from this, not bothered about him. You can celebrate him in your own space, but expect validation from Pakistani fans for whom this ugly action bowler holds no significance whatsoever and at whose expense we enjoyed the most crushing victory in an ICC tournament final ever and may it stand the test of time like it has for 7 years and counting.
Not his fault that India is not getting a chance to play Pakistan in another final, given how badly Pakistan is playing these days. Like champions do, he made up for that by winning the most recent world cup for India.
Mamoon
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He has cost India two trophies, he has given back one. He is still carrying a debt.
By this logic, Wasim failed to win World Cups for Pakistan in 1996, 1999 and 2003. So he is a worse bowler than Bumrah ?
You are factually wrong
He didn't bowl a no ball in the T20 WC semi. It was Pandya and Ashwin who did.
What sort of criteria is that? Why should Bumrah be part of wins in SA, NZ and England? Wasim & Waqar were never part of series wins in SA & Australia and are considered great. Bumrah as a bowler can only bowl well, winning a series is not in his hands. The entire team needs to perform to win a Test series, cannot blame Bumrah for India's losses in those countries. If Bumrah manages to get to 250 Test wickets at an average of 23, he will be India's best pacer ever and one of the best to play the game. No need to set some goals which is not achievable by an individual. This is not singles Tennis, this is a team sport.
Vikram1989
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They got future inspiration from bumrah
.He passed these three difficult subjects with distinction.. looking at Wasim and waqar stats they are not in that category in these subjects..
It is astonishing especially against top3 teams the record book is so clearly speaking for Bumrah in quality and quantity...thanks for the data..
Devadwal
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Since Bumrah test debut.
Fifers in away test matches
Bumrah - 8
Cummins +Hazelwood+ Starc = 8
Fifers in away test matches
Bumrah - 8
Cummins +Hazelwood+ Starc = 8
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Bumrah is a beast bowler. Shaheen has become a non-lethal darter who knows how to bowl a few swinging deliveries in the start and then he vanishes as a bowler.
Bumrah is already the second best bowler from Asia in all formats. matter of time before he moves ahead of wasim. Impact wise already ahead of wasim. Just needs around 60 plus test games
shaz619
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The only thing threatening about Shaheen these days is his body language towards Babar Azam
sweep_shot
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Wasim faced far more competitive opponents than Bumrah. Australia/SA that Wasim faced are not the same Bumrah is facing.
You probably wouldn't know because you are young and you didn't see that period.
Not really. Pre 1995 Aussie batting line up was very much comparable to the Aussie batting lineup Bumrah bowled against or probably even slightly worse.
Post 1995 there was a huge rise in their batting stocks. And Akram averaged nearly 50 per wicket against Aus both home and away combined (5 tests).
sweep_shot
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You are the same guy who had to check Cricinfo to know who Abdul Razzaq was. You then proceeded to compare him with Shivam Dhube. LOL.
You have demonstrated you are a young cricket fan who probably didn't watch pre-2005 cricket. You have to check stats to make these assessments.
sweep_shot
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Anyone who thinks Bumrah is better than Wasim shouldn't be taken seriously.
I think you are confusing me for someone else. I am a 90s kid and I have seen more of Razzaq than Dube.
Rather than getting personal, why don't you try and debate the point ?
The conditions now are suited to batters so you have to take that into consideration.
sweep_shot
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Are you not the guy who compared Abdul Razzaq with Dube? I apologize if you are not the guy. I thought it was you.
Anyway, I think Wasim is a league of his own. Bumrah is not in same level as Wasim But Bumrah is still quite good.
Wasim has fewer wickets than Bumrah vs SA/Eng/Aus combined.
And Wasim did play more tests than Bumrah against them.No I am not. But don't apologize.
Wasim gets brownie points for longevity. It's not easy to put your body on the line for a decade and half across formats against all sorts of opposition and yet end up with a career avg in low 20s overall in both formats like Wasim did.
Devadwal
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Anyone who think Pant is heck in test cricket should not taken seriously
RedwoodOriginal
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Waiting for Aaqib Javed to tell us how Asitha Fernando is a better swing bowler than Bumrah.
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