shaaik
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Does Ravichandran Ashwin chuck?
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Mamoon
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He is a chucker. Not as big a chucker as Ajmal, but still a chucker.
Let's see if he clears the test this time.
shaaik
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Wasn't he tested before as well which he had passed so how can you say that he checked all his life.
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shaaik
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Mamoon
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He got away with it in 2011 due to systematic failure. The testing procedures were not refined and the ICC was not serious about chucking.
Yes his action deteriorated with time, but he has never had a clean action ever since he started playing for Pakistan.
Don't know how his action was in domestic cricket all those years ago. Probably chucked back then as well.
Mamoon
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Based on the fact that the umpires have not reported Ashwin and Jadeja for chucking but did report Hafeez.
Just like Junaid khan then
Mamoon
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Ajmal was not only a chucker but also a liar.
He said he had a deformed elbow due to which he cannot bowl with a clean action.
That proved to be a lying excuse because now he is able to bowl with a clean action and he did not undergo any surgical treatment.
He said he had a deformed elbow due to which he cannot bowl with a clean action.
That proved to be a lying excuse because now he is able to bowl with a clean action and he did not undergo any surgical treatment.
Mamoon
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Junaid's action was fairly okay when he was a regular around 2011-2013, and the ICC were not serious about chucking back then either.
His current action however, is not clean. He was chucking in the PSL, and he hasn't played regularly for Pakistan since summer of 2014, and that was when ICC got serious about chucking.
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shaaik
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So u trust icc's testing procedure only when it supports your notion.
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savecricket
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ICC were serious for during Murali days or are you saying he was a chucker? And the same could be said for Harbijan and even Saqlain
Mamoon
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I trust ICC's testing procedure anyway.
I personally didn't think that Hafeez chucks but since the ICC says so, I agree.
If you look up my posts from 2013-2014, you will find that I was critical of Ajmal's action but not Hafeez's.
If the ICC deems Junaid's current action as legal, I will accept that he is not a chucker.
shaaik
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That's what I said in my very first post, no player from big 3 has ever had any issues since its inception even before big 3 players from india , aus , eng. have almost all the time hv had a smooth sailing.
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Mamoon
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Muralitharan was a chucker too, but the rules were relaxed too accommodate him. It was a political decision.
As a result, chuckers got away with it right up till 2014.
I don't know if Saqlain is a chucker or not, I suspect he would have been borderline according to current testing procedures.
Harbhajan chucks his doosra, but he doesn't play regularly for India anymore and doesn't bowl the doosra often either.
Mamoon
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That is because they don't play chuckers in their national teams and leave them home, like Ojha.
In Pakistan, we celebrate chuckers like heroes.
shaaik
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Exactly my point as well , how wd you know that whether someone is chucking or not unless u test them. All the off spin bowlers should be tested randomly in the same manner as dope tests are conducted. Leaving it to on field umpires descreation is not fair at all.
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Mamoon
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It is not about me or you, it is about the umpires.
The umpires are the decision-makers and we have to take their word. If they see a chucker, they will report him.
It is not an anti-Pakistan conspiracy and it is neither a pro-Big 3 conspiracy.
shaaik
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savecricket
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Look I think it's fairly clear that no one is certain Ashwin chucks.
I for one do not rely on umpires calling chuckers. There should be testing of every chest on bowler or some stats to indicate the level of risk and then tests f'er lived on the back of those risk ratings. Eg. A leg spinner has almost zero opportunity to chuck so they can fall under low risk. A chest on bowler, spin or otherwise have been proven to be most at risk - these bowlers should be given high risk rating and tested periodically. This way guys like Ashwin will certainly get tested and all this debate can lay to rest and the people will not feel cheated. It's very similar to drungs testing
I for one do not rely on umpires calling chuckers. There should be testing of every chest on bowler or some stats to indicate the level of risk and then tests f'er lived on the back of those risk ratings. Eg. A leg spinner has almost zero opportunity to chuck so they can fall under low risk. A chest on bowler, spin or otherwise have been proven to be most at risk - these bowlers should be given high risk rating and tested periodically. This way guys like Ashwin will certainly get tested and all this debate can lay to rest and the people will not feel cheated. It's very similar to drungs testing
endymion248
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Who cares about what people (including umpires) think when Ashwin himself has admitted to chucking? It's a disgrace how you defend this guy who cheated and showed no remorse for it.
shaaik
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Then why not check all the off spin bowlers who bowl doosra ?
Are u for that or not???
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endymion248
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None of them admitted to chucking on purpose.
savecricket
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I'd like to hear from an Indian fan on this? What do you guys seriously think of Ashwin's action?
I'm extremely pro testing now. I want everyone and anyone tested and if that's not feasible than I want to see some prioritisation of it.
It's silly to expect an umpire to call for a 15 degree error in a bowlers action or even suspect it when they have so much to do. It should be a statistically method used to identify risk and then test those who are most at risk. I believe you'll find chest on bowlers like Ashwin to be most at risk so he should be tested and then we can all shut up and move on happily
Tera Gawaandi
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Who are these MANY people? Post few prominent names in this thread. Handful of conspiracy theorists from one country cannot dictate ICC.
Ashwin has one of cleanest action in game.
savecricket
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Is that why he admitted to chucking and got away with it?
If you ask me to start throwing the ball I'd find it vertically impossible let alone to do it in an international or IPL game - and with suck accuracy and guile to deceive the umpires.
The guy had proven he can chuck effectively - test required I'm afraid
endymion248
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AZulfi
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All off-spinners should be tested since chucking is usu.a problem with off-spinners and esp. with doosra
Tera Gawaandi
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Where was that cleanest action when he was wearing sleeves in Asia Cup 2014
Ashwin wore full sleeves to mock chuckers.
Ashwin is most vocal against chuckers.
Ashwin said everyone was getting advantage and he made a claim that he didn't want to be left behind when asked about it in a press conference.
It was a very intelligent move, likes of Ashwin/Broad/Vaughan played huge role in curbing chucking menace.
endymion248
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He can say whatever he wants, he intentionally broke the rules in match situation. He will forever be known as a cheater.
And you can never trust a cheater, who is to say Ashwin won't start chucking again when the going gets tough for him. He did it before and got away with it. He will do it again.
Cricket is not yet BCCI's that Indian cricketers are free to invent their rules and decide when they can chuck and when they can't. Maybe they won't be punished due to indian influence but people will always call out the truth: Ashwin is a cheater.
leatherface58
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Ashwin will be known as the guy who initiated the witch hunt against the chuckers.
He finished off several careers, some before they even started. Some were from his own country too.
Very few individuals have such an impact on the game without even holding a bat or ball.
He finished off several careers, some before they even started. Some were from his own country too.
Very few individuals have such an impact on the game without even holding a bat or ball.
Tera Gawaandi
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What rules he broke ? Wearing full sleeves was symbolic, how can you accuse him of chucking without any evidence.
Ashwin is well educated person with good wit and humour, pompous at times. I don't like him. It was his way of bringing attention to chucking menace.
endymion248
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He admitted to chucking. He chucked during the Asia Cup 2014, there is no disagreement on that, even by the indians on this thread. The full sleeves were to hide the chucking.
savecricket
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It's just a mystery he's never ever been tested. Does anyone know of a top flight chest on off spinner that hasn't been tested? Except Ashwin of course lol
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Good one. Any in recent times?
blue_champion
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What about all the wins Ajmal and Hafeez got blatantly throwing ?
blue_champion
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Hafeez had a pretty dodgy action even at the start of his career but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was always the same so probably unintentional.... With Ajmal the degrees of his elbows started falling faster and faster the more desperate he got for wickets.
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This thread is a classic example of sour grapes. He has one of the cleanest actions in the game.
Nikhil_cric
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He's actually far better with a clean action than 
ever was while chucking. Hence this thread. 
ever was while chucking. Hence this thread. They got banned didn't they? SO indirectly you are accepting these facts that are mentioned that he did admit to chucking in a match??
Which means Ashwin should be banned but is still playing
leatherface58
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He never admitted to chucking. He just claimed that wearing long sleeves gave him unfair advantage while bowling. He never said that he exploited said unfair advantage.
Smart man Ashwin. Fooled all internet marks and left them fuming.
Monsee
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Without getting in a debate, this article clearly lays out what he did and he also admitted to 'playing the rule' or something to that effect...if everyone is so sure that he is clean than how come Harbhajan and Ashwin get tested for once and all to lay to rest all these 'rumors'?
https://in.news.yahoo.com/ravichandran-ashwin-played-role-icc-082118119.html
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I think his action was suspect in few matches/months when he was trying to bowl with action of Narine ? or he was trying to bowl some delivery. but since when he stopped bowling with that action and ICC got tougher on chucking, his action looks clean to the naked eye.
cricketjoshila
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He said everyone is using their "elbow" so i will try that as well.
cricketjoshila
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You will not decide what is required.
BeautifulGame
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One can cry as much as they want but Ashwin won't be tested because he has clean action.
It is an outright shame that Ashwin goes on to be allowed to bowl without getting tested despite hinting that he has been a chucker. The list of BCCI atrocities just goes on and on...
1) Banning of Ajmal from bowling just before world cup
2) Sachin LBW in SF (alleged tampering with DRS)
3) Amir, Butt, Asif fiasco
4) Banning of Hafeez, Arafat Sunny and Taskin
5) WC 2011 final toss
6) Nasir Jamshed's ordeal
I feel ashamed...
1) Banning of Ajmal from bowling just before world cup
2) Sachin LBW in SF (alleged tampering with DRS)
3) Amir, Butt, Asif fiasco
4) Banning of Hafeez, Arafat Sunny and Taskin
5) WC 2011 final toss
6) Nasir Jamshed's ordeal
I feel ashamed...
Cryin Out Loud
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Harsh but I would not disagree, as IIRC he claimed a deformed elbow (die to an accident?) and then all of a sudden the elbow 'undeformed' itself.
I dunno about the poster you asked this question of,but I think so.
I think the above is a classic example of refusing to look beyond the obvious,and to try and tar everyone with the same brush. Here's how it goes:
Situation: Three Pakistani players get convicted. Response - Hey look others are cheating too.
Situation: A Pakistani bowler gets called for chucking. Response-Hey Indian/Big 3 players chuck and have not been called.
Instead of looking inwards, instead of working with the process, instead of righting the situation, the emphasis is on blaming others.
Did he pass latest ICC bowling tests? Every bowler is chucker until they pass the test. No umpire will call Ashwin because BCCI is too powerful and they will shorten his umpiring career. That is why umpire should not have any role in calling bowlers for chucking. It should be random test like drug test in sports.
You know that still pics do not say anything about chucking?
Yes I do.
But I combine them with the experience over decades of mediocre finger spinners (from Tony Lock through to Saeed Ajmal) being transformed from toothless pie throwers to lethal spinners by starting to chuck.
It's as suspicious as a mediocre Flo Jo athlete suddenly becoming a world beater.
R Ashwin was a pie thrower until a year ago. And now for the last year he has suddenly become lethal.
endymion248
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And the other end of the spectrum is when a player admits to cheating on purpose and people still defend him. Making a mockery of the sport, this. Maradonna touched the ball with the hand once and he still can't live it down, same for Suarez, yet here Ashwin chucked during whole Asia Cup and IPL on purpose - and admitted to it - yet people want to brush it under the carpet with ad hominems. I was blaming Ashwin for cheating before Ajmal was banned and I will carry on doing it because that's the truth: he is a cheater.
No he wasn't. Check his numbers.
endymion248
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What was his average at the start of 2015?
Nikhil_cric
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What's your point? He played in SA/AUS/ENG/NZ prior to 2015 and has since played in spinner friendly conditions. His average was bound to drop after that.
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Not sure how relevant. Bowlers bowl well on certain pitches against certain oppositions. It's not nuclear science.
Yasir ripped through England at Lord's but failed abysmally at Manchester. Does that say he used unfair means at Lord's? Of course not.
You gave your point that you feel Ashwin chucks - well taken, but this is poor logic.
1) That no other spinner cheated the game on the whole.
2) Get ashwin tested.
Can we please avoid discussing Ajmal here. This thread is about Ashwin. Ajmal, the magician actually had a genuine case - accident due to which arm was deformed and gave an illusion of chucking.
Yeah from now on ICC should consult Pakistani fans regarding who should take the tests.
Slog
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Unless his action has considerably changed from WT20 2016 to this West Indies series no one is watching, then Ashwin is not a chucker. Fairly clean action.
It is funny though, if not at all surprising, to see the hypocrisy of some Indian fans here. Imran Khan admitted to messing around with the condition of the ball in a single, pointless county match for experimental purposes to see how the ball will behave. And for that one isolated incident many of our Indian brothers label him a ball tamperer and show their insecurity regarding him by trying to unsuccessfully tarnish his cricketing legacy. Not only that but they also try to rope in Wasim and Waqar in this discussion by extension lol.
And here you have Ashwin who blatantly chucked in international matches and pretty much accepted that he did so but he isnt called a chucker by the same brigade.
It is funny though, if not at all surprising, to see the hypocrisy of some Indian fans here. Imran Khan admitted to messing around with the condition of the ball in a single, pointless county match for experimental purposes to see how the ball will behave. And for that one isolated incident many of our Indian brothers label him a ball tamperer and show their insecurity regarding him by trying to unsuccessfully tarnish his cricketing legacy. Not only that but they also try to rope in Wasim and Waqar in this discussion by extension lol.
And here you have Ashwin who blatantly chucked in international matches and pretty much accepted that he did so but he isnt called a chucker by the same brigade.
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After Pakistan won the test at Lords, Indians on this forum went out of their way to congratulate Yasir Shah. We stood by Amir and defended against the wrist sittlers after his relatively poor performance in the two tests. But when Ashwin scores a 100 and takes a 7fer, we get this back. Way to go.
Show the statement where he said he was chucking. I am not looking for a blog or an article. I am looking for a quote.
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You really need to do a lot of reading.
If not the internet, atleast go through this thread?
endymion248
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Nikhil_cric
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^^ Where exactly in that interview does ashwin admit to cheating?
leatherface58
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This does not prove anything. He said others are taking advantage of the 15 degree rule and so will he. He never said he will cross the limit.
I know he is implying he can chuck too but it has been worded very smartly to avoid any ramifications.
I have read that article before. Show me the statement/words where he admitted chucking.
Slog
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Yea but any dunce can read between the lines
Otherwise whats the advantage lol if everyone is within the legal limits anyway.
Nikhil_cric
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Yeah but somehow most dunces don't understand that he was actually trying to point out the issue that a lot of finger spinners were chucking at the time.
There's a big difference between "i may do it" and "i have done it".
Based upon former, you can't give verdict of guilty. Latter, easily.
Slog
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so he is basically saying that he is wearing full sleeves to use the same advantage as others.
so if they are chucking, then he intends to chuck too and use the full sleeves to mask it.
if they're not chucking and are within the extent of the 15 degree rule, then whats this whole new philosophy he's coming up with.
either way pretty stupid statement
leatherface58
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Yeah but you cannot prove chucking by reading between the lines.
He may or may not have chucked but he was not caught during the use of his intentionally suspicious action and now he never will.
endymion248
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"There was a time in Bangladesh when you bowled with long sleeves. What was that about? You spoke about it in detail in the press conference, where you spoke about comparative advantage. Was that about utilising the 15-degree allowance? As I said, forming rules is not my job; playing is. If there is a 15-degree rule to be used as an advantage, why should I lag behind? There is a precise advantage that I wanted to use. People started thinking I had gone mad but I did not take offence. I felt only mad people succeed in life and if you're mad about something and believe in something, you will come out on top. I felt to a greater degree that I did come out on top. If I hadn't ventured into those things, I would not have learned as much as I did."
This statement, in the context of this interview:
And you can clearly see that he chucked on purpose to gain an advantage and then admitted it in interview twice.
Prince_
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That's a twisted logic bro. If u truly believe that ICC is always correct and their testing procedure is flawless then would you pls tell me why were u critical of Ajmal's action in 2013? Wasn't he declared clean by the very same organization u r advocating now?
Secondly, why r u calling azmal a cheat? How do u know that azmal has bowled with an illegal action throughout his career? Perhaps his action has deteriorated over the years or perhaps the current testing procedure is flawed(not literally but it could be, right?)
The point is u can't just say that azmal is a cheat or liar. His bowling action was challenged....... He took the test......... He was declared clean........That should be end of discussion.
Sandeep
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I'm happy that Ashwin, Vaughan, Broad were very vocal against chuckers. That led to the action against 40 degree cheaters like Ajmal.
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Slog
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