What's new

Honour Killings

Samia Shahid death: Pakistan police probe 'honour killing'

Police in Pakistan have launched a murder investigation into the death of a woman whose husband says she was the victim of a so-called honour killing.
Samia Shahid, 28, from Bradford, died last week in Northern Punjab.


Police are treating her death as suspicious after receiving information from her husband.


No arrests have been made but officers are investigating her father and want to speak to her first husband Choudhry Shakeel, who has gone on the run.
Samia Shahid with husband Syed Mukhtar Kazam


Syed Mukhtar Kazam believes his wife, who had gone to Pakistan to visit relatives, was killed because her family disapproved of their marriage.


He said that before she left, her family had threatened her life.


Mujahed Akbar Khan, a district police chief in Pakistan, said: "There are many things which have to be verified by the authorities of the marriage and the remarriage."


But he said if the evidence being collected pointed to murder then "a murder is a murder".


The policeman said Ms Shahid's ex-husband "was on the run and I believe in a day or two we will arrest him".
He said his force was "continuously in touch" with the UK authorities and the Pakistani High Commission in England about the case.


MP Naz Shah has written to the prime minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, calling for Ms Shahid's body to be exhumed


BBC journalist Philip Palmer, in Islamabad, said a post-mortem examination had been carried out on Ms Shahid's body and police were awaiting toxicology reports.


He added: "When those reports come back, and they don't have a date yet, if they come back and it shows there are no toxins in her system or there is no sense that there may have been poisoning or foul play, then the investigation will end."


Meanwhile, a relative of Ms Shahid's - a 32-year-old woman - was arrested by West Yorkshire Police on Tuesday over alleged threats against Bradford West MP Naz Shah.


A 37-year-old man has also been arrested over the allegations.


The MP had been calling for Ms Shahid's death to be investigated. She has written to the prime minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, calling for her body to be exhumed.


She said: "I'm not going to rest until I'm satisfied I know the cause of her death - we need to investigate it fully."



http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-36901666


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
US Pakistanis also partake in this

In 2009, Aasiya Hassan was beheaded by her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, at the Buffalo, N.Y., Muslim TV station where they worked for allegedly requesting a divorce. The Pakistani-born killer defended himself at trial, never denied his guilt and was convicted in 2011. A few months before Hassan was killed.
 
Brit Pakistanis are still living in Zia-ul Haq's era.. :facepalm:
 
Syed1 said:
Brit Pakistanis are still living in Zia-ul Haq's era.. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

‘I killed my daughter. . . with my hands

For years, Muhammad Parvez had been in absolute control of his family: he set the rules, he made the decisions and he told his eight children, including the adult ones, exactly how to live their lives.

But Aqsa Parvez, 16, the youngest in the family, dared to challenge her father’s rule.

She first refused his demands to wear the hijab and the traditional Pakistani clothing her four older sisters always wore. She hung out with girls outside her own culture and when things became intolerable at home, she opted to live in a shelter.

Even when Parvez relented, and allowed her to wear urban-style jeans and T-shirts to school, she still wanted more freedom. Her father wouldn’t allow her to go to her friend’s homes or to the mall on the weekends. Even talking on the phone at night was forbidden. Eventually, she ran away for a second time.

Her defiance was the ultimate insult in the eyes of her domineering father. It was all too much for Muhammad Parvez to take.

On the morning of Dec. 10, 2007, Aqsa was murdered in the basement bedroom of her Mississauga home. Her room was the only bedroom without a door.

She had been strangled by her assailant’s bare hands.



https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/06/16/i_killed_my_daughter__with_my_hands.html
 
Last edited:
It's more of a Mirpuri problem than that of British Pakistani, recent migrants that have come from areas like Karachi and Lahore are more modern and open minded in their outlook.
 
Rafa said:
It's more of a Mirpuri problem than that of British Pakistani, recent migrants that have come from areas like Karachi and Lahore are more modern and open minded in their outlook.
Click to expand...

Stop lying its a Punjabi thing



Samia Shahid from Bradford died while visiting relatives in Punjab village

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kistan-police-hunt-husband.html#ixzz4Fi5zoAMx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But unlike most teenagers in the UK, Shafilea was torn between two cultures. Her parents, an ultra-conservative Pakistani couple who were born in the rural village of Uttam in the Gujrat district, wanted her to marry a cousin in his late 20s, a decade older than their daughter, and become a devoted wife, possibly never to return to the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/03/shafilea-ahmed-history-of-violence

amaira Nazir knew well that her parents would disapprove. She wanted to marry her Afghan boyfriend, rather than someone from the family circle, and she was prepared to fight for him too.
So were they. Yesterday, Ms Nazir's brother was jailed for at least 20 years for her murder and her cousin, who is 17, will serve 10 years for his role in her death last April.

The "honour killing", which took place at home in front of her parents, was carried out with four knives, as she was pinned down, and left her with 18 stab wounds and three separate cuts to her throat. The Old Bailey heard the method was "barbaric".

Her brother Azhar Nazir, a 30-year-old greengrocer, threatened to "get" the couple if they married, even if they were abroad. He was, the court heard, so incensed that his sister had turned down the suitors waiting for her in Pakistan in favour of the Afghan that he ordered the 25-year-old to come to the family home in Southall, Middlesex.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jul/15/ukcrime.mainsection
 
Last edited:
mani1 said:
Stop lying its a Punjabi thing



Samia Shahid from Bradford died while visiting relatives in Punjab village

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kistan-police-hunt-husband.html#ixzz4Fi5zoAMx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But unlike most teenagers in the UK, Shafilea was torn between two cultures. Her parents, an ultra-conservative Pakistani couple who were born in the rural village of Uttam in the Gujrat district, wanted her to marry a cousin in his late 20s, a decade older than their daughter, and become a devoted wife, possibly never to return to the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/03/shafilea-ahmed-history-of-violence

amaira Nazir knew well that her parents would disapprove. She wanted to marry her Afghan boyfriend, rather than someone from the family circle, and she was prepared to fight for him too.
So were they. Yesterday, Ms Nazir's brother was jailed for at least 20 years for her murder and her cousin, who is 17, will serve 10 years for his role in her death last April.

The "honour killing", which took place at home in front of her parents, was carried out with four knives, as she was pinned down, and left her with 18 stab wounds and three separate cuts to her throat. The Old Bailey heard the method was "barbaric".

Her brother Azhar Nazir, a 30-year-old greengrocer, threatened to "get" the couple if they married, even if they were abroad. He was, the court heard, so incensed that his sister had turned down the suitors waiting for her in Pakistan in favour of the Afghan that he ordered the 25-year-old to come to the family home in Southall, Middlesex.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jul/15/ukcrime.mainsection
Click to expand...

Well said. Sometimes you think some people just like to slate mirpuris for the sake of it :)) Not accepting the wider problem in this case, just blame the mirpuris it's easier lol.
 
mani1 said:
Stop lying its a Punjabi thing
Click to expand...

It's not a Punjabi thing or a Mirpuri thing, it's a rural tribal thing, and this could have happened anywhere in the remote regions of Pakistan. This case was definitely Punjab based, I think people associate Mirpur with Bradford and that's why they jumped the guns.

Pretty girl, the world would probably been a better place if her family members that were involved in her murder got run over by a truck.

720.jpg
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's not a Punjabi thing or a Mirpuri thing, it's a rural tribal thing, and this could have happened anywhere in the remote regions of Pakistan. This case was definitely Punjab based, I think people associate Mirpur with Bradford and that's why they jumped the guns.

Pretty girl, the world would probably been a better place if her family members that were involved in her murder got run over by a truck.

View attachment 68700
Click to expand...

Not really honour killings are almost unheard of in Mirpur and very common in Punjab including Lahore.
Also all the ones I listed are committed by non Mirpuris and according to the poster I originally quoted the overwhelming vast majority of English Pakistanis are from Mirpur, yet the vast majority of honour killings if not all are comitted by non Mirpuri's in England. Never mind those that were posted above by me done by the North American Pakistani's
 
mani bhai getting defensive about good ol' Mirpur.
 
Honor killings are unheard of in Mirpur.Almost all honor killings this year have been in Punjab.

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk
 
I have no idea about honour killings in Punjab or Kashmir, what I do know is that cases like this are very rare in the UK Punjabi community. That's not to say they never happen, but I would imagine there's far more women killed by white Brits by their partners or ex-partners. They might not be called honour killings, but the motives are usually similar.

These are crimes of passion or jealousy usually, and I doubt they are endorsed by any community so I don't really see much point in trying to label that community on actions taken by individuals off their own bat.
 
Lets not turn this into a Mirpur vs everybody else thread. Honour killing is a Pakistani problem and is exhibited by all parts of rural Pakistan in varying degree of frequency.
 
One would imagine that people would leave their backward mentality behind when they move to the west.

Apparently not.
 
Syed1 said:
Lets not turn this into a Mirpur vs everybody else thread. Honour killing is a Pakistani problem and is exhibited by all parts of rural Pakistan in varying degree of frequency.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Bad enough that this sort of nonsense is finding it's way onto British soil, last thing we need is people bringing their regional bigotry from over there as well.
 
They Married 2 years Ago through Mutual Friends.



aa7d9ef8229e60351bae9633b0d649ab.jpg



b945479b3e9a16661ff0bf0657380a40.jpg



dbb4644822c875c5293d49db09696dff.jpg


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
The family have strongly dismissed the allegations. Her father, who is in Pakistan, told The Guardian that Mr Mukhtair’s claims were “lies and allegations” and that: “An investigation is under way and if I am found guilty I am ready for every kind of punishment.”

He added: “My daughter was living a very peaceful and happy life. She had come to Pakistan on her own and was not under any pressure from her family.”

A cousin in Bradford said she had died of natural causes and that the family had conducted a post mortem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ns-family-accused-of-pakistan-honour-killing/
Click to expand...

I hope everyone isn't jumping the gun here, is there any actual evidence that this was an honour killing? I have read the initial headlines and assumed there was something concrete behind it, but apparently she was living in Dubai with her husband now, not the UK.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I hope everyone isn't jumping the gun here, is there any actual evidence that this was an honour killing? I have read the initial headlines and assumed there was something concrete behind it, but apparently she was living in Dubai with her husband now, not the UK.
Click to expand...

I thought the same at first but her first husband has gone on the run not a good sign unfortunately.

Also the Police have stated its a murder investigation and the family change the story from heart attack to asthma attack.
 
mani1 said:
I thought the same at first but her first husband has gone on the run not a good sign unfortunately.

Also the Police have stated its a murder investigation and the family change the story from heart attack to asthma attack.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, sounds very suspicious. I hope they catch this loser and at the same time there needs to be some perspective. No point in tarring the whole British Pakistani community on the basis of one incident, unless we are prepared to do the same with whites who indulge in the same when they inflict 'murders of passion'.

There was a similar story of a British Indian who had his wife killed in South Africa last year and I don't recall his Indian background being made headlines on that occasion.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Fair enough, sounds very suspicious. I hope they catch this loser and at the same time there needs to be some perspective. No point in tarring the whole British Pakistani community on the basis of one incident, unless we are prepared to do the same with whites who indulge in the same when they inflict 'murders of passion'.

There was a similar story of a British Indian who had his wife killed in South Africa last year and I don't recall his Indian background being made headlines on that occasion.
Click to expand...

I agree. I also don't think her first husband even set foot in the UK.
 
All these hounour killings BS was in this region before Islam came and although we accept Islam we are still clinging to these non-islamic traditions :facepalm:

As one religious scholar said: "We have recite the kalma (there is no God except Allah and prophet Mohammad SAW is the last prophet of Allah) to become muslim but the kalma has not gone down our throat yet". May Allah allow all of us to become true muslims. Ameen.
 
Last edited:
I thank Allah that I wasn't born a woman. Pakistani women have no lives unfortunately and are always victims of these honour killings by the pathetic men of the country. God knows what day and age many Pakistanis are still living in. Things like this shouldn't happen in 2016.
 
srh said:
All these hounour killings BS was in this region before Islam came and although we accept Islam we are still clinging to these non-islamic traditions :facepalm:

As one religious scholar said: "We have recite the kalma (there is no God except Allah and prophet Mohammad SAW is the last prophet of Allah) to become muslim but the kalma has not gone down our throat yet". May Allah allow all of us to become true muslims. Ameen.
Click to expand...
I am shocked to see a reformed Kalima.

LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MOHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH


Contact an Arabic person and ask him to translate each word into English. These are 7 words.


Pyaaray Bhaee pehlay samajh lou phir Halaq se bhee uttar jaaey ga. Allah ne chaaha tou.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
srh said:
All these hounour killings BS was in this region before Islam came and although we accept Islam we are still clinging to these non-islamic traditions :facepalm:

As one religious scholar said: "We have recite the kalma (there is no God except Allah and prophet Mohammad SAW is the last prophet of Allah) to become muslim but the kalma has not gone down our throat yet". May Allah allow all of us to become true muslims. Ameen.
Click to expand...

How many Muslims actually take the time to understand and parse the Quran and Hadith. Most know Islam as passed down from their parents and the religious clergy. This has become a vicious cycle.
 
yet again Pakistanis blaming putting each other down to look cool :facepalm::facepalm:

We should stop using these terms which are creation of Western Media just to degrade us

family disputes been happening throughout history and so does murders because of these family disputes. and will continue to happen till end of times
 
mani1 said:
‘I killed my daughter. . . with my hands

For years, Muhammad Parvez had been in absolute control of his family: he set the rules, he made the decisions and he told his eight children, including the adult ones, exactly how to live their lives.

But Aqsa Parvez, 16, the youngest in the family, dared to challenge her father’s rule.

She first refused his demands to wear the hijab and the traditional Pakistani clothing her four older sisters always wore. She hung out with girls outside her own culture and when things became intolerable at home, she opted to live in a shelter.

Even when Parvez relented, and allowed her to wear urban-style jeans and T-shirts to school, she still wanted more freedom. Her father wouldn’t allow her to go to her friend’s homes or to the mall on the weekends. Even talking on the phone at night was forbidden. Eventually, she ran away for a second time.

Her defiance was the ultimate insult in the eyes of her domineering father. It was all too much for Muhammad Parvez to take.

On the morning of Dec. 10, 2007, Aqsa was murdered in the basement bedroom of her Mississauga home. Her room was the only bedroom without a door.

She had been strangled by her assailant’s bare hands.



https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2010/06/16/i_killed_my_daughter__with_my_hands.html
Click to expand...

No wonder why Mississauga Pakistanis are so messed up.
 
Whenever I log onto PP and visit the time pass section I get depressed.. Every day seems to have some sort of murders for stupidest reasons or attacks and what not..
 
Update :


JHELUM: The former husband of Samia Shahid, a British Pakistani woman who died of ‘unnatural causes’ while visiting family here last month, has confessed to killing his ex-wife, sources in Punjab Police revealed to DawnNews on Saturday.

A police officer part of the investigation team, seeking anonymity, told DawnNews that Shakeel had confessed to strangling Samia to death after drugging her.


Police said Shakeel had killed her after Samia refused to part ways with her second husband, Syed Mukhtar Kazim. The accused went on to say he acted alone and that the deceased’s father, Chaudhry Shahid, did not have anything to do with the murder.

Shakeel was arrested after his interim bail expired. He was then presented in a local court that sent him into police custody on a four-day physical remand.

Earlier, British MP Naz Shah had written to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to intervene in the case.

British police started a probe into Samia Shahid's death after her husband Syed Mukhtar Kazim claimed she was killed while visiting her family in Pakistan because she married someone who was seen as an outsider.

Kazim, a Pakistani national, said he received news his wife Samia, a Bradford resident of Pakistani origin, had died while visiting her relatives in Pandori village near Mangla Dam.

The couple had been living in Dubai since last year, he said.

Kazim said Samia, 28, was urged to come to Pakistan to visit a seriously ill relative and was supposed to return to their home in Dubai.

Instead, he received a call a day earlier that she had died of a heart attack.

“Should this be [an honour killing] case then we must ensure justice is done for Samia and we must ensure this never happens again,” MP Naz Shah wrote to the PM in her letter seen by The Guardian.

Samia, a beauty therapist, was buried in her village graveyard.


http://www.dawn.com/news/1277333/strangled-samia-to-death-former-husband-confesses
 
British Sikh woman victim of honour killing in India, claims family

British Sikh woman victim of honour killing in India, claims family

LONDON: A British Sikh family has written to UK foreign secretary Boris Johnson calling for a new investigation into the death of a woman who they claim was the victim of an honour killing in India.
The woman, who cannot be named due to legal reasons, was a mother of four who died in "highly suspicious circumstances" in March 2015 after allegedly refusing to allow one of her sons to be adopted by her childless brother-in-law, who was said to be desperate for a male heir to secure "ancestral wealth", 'The Sunday Times' reported.
In the letter to Johnson this week, representatives of the mother's family say she was "tricked" into going on a family trip to India, where she died after a heated argument with her husband about giving up their youngest son.
The family said they were told she had died of a "sudden heart attack", but found bruises on her body.

She was cremated without their knowledge before they could fly her back to Britain.
The relatives claim they have been "shunted from pillar to post" by the UK Foreign Office and Metropolitan police and have a meeting in the Parliament complex in London next week where they will call for a fresh investigation into the death.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-India-claims-family/articleshow/55792275.cms
Click to expand...


Although it doesn't mention it here, the husband is a Hindu builder according to the original article in the Times. Why can't these people leave their disgusting "culture" back where it belongs instead of polluting these fair isles with their nonsense?
 
She died after allegedly refusing to allow one of her sons to be adopted by her childless brother-in-law, who was said to be desperate for a male heir to secure "ancestral wealth", 'She was "tricked" into going on a family trip to India, where she died after a heated argument with her husband about giving up their youngest son.
Click to expand...

What is definition of honor killing ?

Its a family dispute, nothing to do with love marriage/inter-caste marriage etc.

What is missing captain ?

According to Wiki, Honor killing is -

An honor killing is the homicide of a member of a family by other members, due to the perpetrators' belief that the victim has brought shame or dishonor upon the family, or has violated the principles of a community or a religion, usually for reasons such as refusing to enter an arranged marriage, being in a relationship that is disapproved by their family, having sex outside marriage, becoming the victim of rape, dressing in ways which are deemed inappropriate, engaging in non-heterosexual relations or renouncing a faith.
Click to expand...
 
In this case, Sikh parents were actually worried for well-being of their daughter, instead of disowning her for marrying a Hindu (according to you). This is reversal of honor killing scenario.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
What is definition of honor killing ?

Its a family dispute, nothing to do with love marriage/inter-caste marriage etc.

What is missing captain ?

According to Wiki, Honor killing is -
Click to expand...

Don't shoot the messenger, the claim of honour killing is being made by the woman's Sikh family. I don't write the headlines.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Don't shoot the messenger, the claim of honour killing is being made by the woman's Sikh family. I don't write the headlines.
Click to expand...

I haven't said anything to you, you should have at-least read the news properly before calling other's culture 'disgusting'.

Honor killings happen on daily basis, no one can deny, but you jumped the gun.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
I haven't said anything to you, you should have at-least read the news properly before calling other's culture 'disgusting'.

Honor killings happen on daily basis, no one can deny, but you jumped the gun.
Click to expand...

You can argue over the semantics if it makes you happy but I won't apologise for calling out the disgusting culture that these people bring with them. Asking the poor woman to provide a son to her brother in law to secure his "ancestral wealth" may seem reasonable to you but I think we should call a spade a spade.
 
Their country, their rules. It's not like women aren't killed in India everyday on one pretext or the other.
 
Wonder if this will be plastered all over our media like the case of that woman from Bradford earlier this year.
 
Waiting for them to find some Pakistani angle to it. They'll say it was a case of mistaken identity.
 
Honor Killings - Amazes me that this evil is still widely accepted in the subcontinent

I randomly came across this article below about the tragic story of Shafilea Ahmed who's parents are finally getting convicted for killing their daughter in the UK in front of her siblings. Link below.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/03/shafilea-ahmed-history-of-violence


What can we do more to educate people to stop this evil practice. I also don't believe this is secluded to one religion and happens commonly in hindu, sikh and muslim societies and is more of a cultural belief than a religious one. The mindset is also something that isn't restricted to people from rich or poor classes of society. It saddens my heart that a parent or sibling can kill their own blood over something as silly as marrying or liking someone from a different faith or accepting a different culture and different beliefs.... Shafilea in the above link was tortured daily, was scared for her life and eventually murdered. She had career aspirations and wanted to be something. It really hurts me that something like this is so prevalent in today's society and is widely justified. We can't always decide how our kids should live their life but should try and hope for the best that they live good lives and in general be good people. Nothing else should matter. I hope they bring stricter laws in India and Pakistan to help the victims before its too late and if too late change the laws to give the harshest justice possible for such offenders so that no one would even think of doing such a think in the justification of honor killing....
 
Is the honor killing done only when the girl elopes/falls in love with a lower caste guy or is it done irrespective of caste?
 
Ive been searching around online for various honor killing cases and it looks like it has nothing to do with religion, caste, class. I just read one account on a very rich Sikh familily in Canada order a hit on their daughter for marrying a man who was a muslim and many other cases. But nothing in common except that in their minds they were doing nothing wrong and instead firmly believed that this is a widely accepted common practice and very justified.. We really need to start respecting our children for making their own choices or stop having children all together...
 
Honor killing is very much part still. it has decreased in india to some extent. But family of them if dnt agree with tge wishes of their sons or daughters , then family will cut off with them.
I find it very funny that a person of around 20 plus age cant even choose their life partner then what to expect from this culture. Independently they cant take decisions.
 
akki said:
Honor killing is very much part still. it has decreased in india to some extent. But family of them if dnt agree with tge wishes of their sons or daughters , then family will cut off with them.
I find it very funny that a person of around 20 plus age cant even choose their life partner then what to expect from this culture. Independently they cant take decisions.
Click to expand...

The problem is, the kids when they grow up can choose their own life partner. But when their daughter finds out that the guy whom she loved is a cheat, she will come back to her parents. That is what the parents are scared of.

Its not easy for girls to find another guy in our culture after the failure of the 1st marriage. Also, comes the factor of an upper caste girl falling in love with a Dalit. The guy may be genuine. But the Dalit Stigma will not go away.
 
troodon said:
The problem is, the kids when they grow up can choose their own life partner. But when their daughter finds out that the guy whom she loved is a cheat, she will come back to her parents. That is what the parents are scared of.

Its not easy for girls to find another guy in our culture after the failure of the 1st marriage. Also, comes the factor of an upper caste girl falling in love with a Dalit. The guy may be genuine. But the Dalit Stigma will not go away.
Click to expand...

i dnt agree .Even a person, whom their parents choose can be cheat. And daughters family only tells her to adjust to whatever happens . And its not only about dalit or sc st. it happens without these things as well.
We call ourselves biggest democracy in the world ,yet we cant even choose our life partner. This has to be tge biggest joke.
 
The more i read about this and various cases that have come out, it has widely gone unnoticed as the families wipe out any trace of evidence especially in the subcontinent. Also reading that, when the families don't carry this honor killing and let their daughter do whatever she pleases, is when close friends and families start criticising the parents for not carrying the honor killing out and starts to isolate the family. I can only imagine how many cases are out there that have gone unnoticed. Contradictory to the prior post, just came across an article from 2016 that there has been a surge in India on honor killings. But like i pointed out before, a large number of cases have relatively gone unnoticed and is blamed as a missing persons case. Even for the article in the above for the murder taking place in UK, only came out 7 years after the fact when one of the siblings just couldn't take it anymore and confessed to the parents crime.. I can only imagine the mental state of the sibling for witnessing such an act and keeping it hidden out of fear and maybe even shock that she may share the same fate or even out of fear that if her parents get convicted what would happen to her...

Large example of honor killings happen towards girls fleeing a forced marriage, eloping with a chosen partner, taking a role in public life against the wishes of male family, going against family tradition.
 
akki said:
i dnt agree .Even a person, whom their parents choose can be cheat. And daughters family only tells her to adjust to whatever happens . And its not only about dalit or sc st. it happens without these things as well.
We call ourselves biggest democracy in the world ,yet we cant even choose our life partner. This has to be tge biggest joke.
Click to expand...

In arranged marriages, the parents think that they can question the Guy's parents in case the guy is a cheat. In cases of elopement, parents have nobody to question.

I am not supporting arranged marriages. I have observed this in our culture. Parents are always super scared about how their daughters will be treated. Unless they know the groom or at least find out about the groom and their family from at least 10 other sources, they will not agree for the wedding.

India is an extremely conservative country overall. Of course there are pockets in every major city of India where the society is very liberal. But most of the country is still stuck in medieval times. It does not help the cause of genuine guys who want to approach a girl like gentlemen when we keep hearing brutal rape cases every other day.
 
Snak3eye5 said:
I randomly came across this article below about the tragic story of Shafilea Ahmed who's parents are finally getting convicted for killing their daughter in the UK in front of her siblings.
..
Click to expand...
They were convicted 5 years ago. It was all over the news when it happened.
 
troodon said:
In arranged marriages, the parents think that they can question the Guy's parents in case the guy is a cheat. In cases of elopement, parents have nobody to question.

I am not supporting arranged marriages. I have observed this in our culture. Parents are always super scared about how their daughters will be treated. Unless they know the groom or at least find out about the groom and their family from at least 10 other sources, they will not agree for the wedding.

India is an extremely conservative country overall. Of course there are pockets in every major city of India where the society is very liberal. But most of the country is still stuck in medieval times. It does not help the cause of genuine guys who want to approach a girl like gentlemen when we keep hearing brutal rape cases every other day.
Click to expand...

Rape happens everywhere in the world. its a crime that happens all over tge world . Its only that our mentality toward tge victim itself is very shamefull .
Girls are approachable now days in whole india tgese days i guess. Even a secind tier cities in schools , most of the girls have b.f . its not a big thing. the thing is parents are not approachable yet.
Most of tge oarents are just against tge idea of love marriage . why cant tgey believe at tge choices of their sons or daughters . Most of the parents will give choice to rather choose them or their partner to whom they want to marry.
And you think parents care when after even arrange marriage tgeir daughter suffers ? they just teach her to accept this as her fate and learn to adjust, afterall this in tge only her family now.
its not like i am against arrange marriage but still this thing i dnt know when will change.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
akki said:
Rape happens everywhere in the world. its a crime that happens all over tge world . Its only that our mentality toward tge victim itself is very shamefull .
Girls are approachable now days in whole india tgese days i guess. Even a secind tier cities in schools , most of the girls have b.f . its not a big thing. the thing is parents are not approachable yet.
Most of tge oarents are just against tge idea of love marriage . why cant tgey believe at tge choices of their sons or daughters . Most of the parents will give choice to rather choose them or their partner to whom they want to marry.
And you think parents care when after even arrange marriage tgeir daughter suffers ? they just teach her to accept this as her fate and learn to adjust, afterall this in tge only her family now.
its not like i am against arrange marriage but still this thing i dnt know when will change.
Click to expand...

Even in big cities, it is not easy to approach a girl. Not sure how the situation is right now. I am talking about 2003-2007. You gonna get reported for approaching a girl. Girls are scared of young men. They walk away twice as fast when you walk towards them. I never approached any girl as I was too shy. But my friends who had the courage were all left disappointed. Some who persisted got an earful from the girl :))

Good that situation has improved in the past decade. :19:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
troodon said:
Even in big cities, it is not easy to approach a girl. Not sure how the situation is right now. I am talking about 2003-2007. You gonna get reported for approaching a girl. Girls are scared of young men. They walk away twice as fast when you walk towards them. I never approached any girl as I was too shy. But my friends who had the courage were all left disappointed. Some who persisted got an earful from the girl :))

Good that situation has improved in the past decade. :19:
Click to expand...

Yeah now days girls are very much approachable. I am not even talking about metro cities i am talking about small cities. This watsapp , f.b , smartphones in the hands of school going boys and girls plus free calling so no vurden of even call charges.
Girls are very much approachable . yes or no it depends on her. but no girl reports unless you constantly stalk her or ask her again and again only to trouble her and yourself later.
 
Snak3eye5 said:
Ive been searching around online for various honor killing cases and it looks like it has nothing to do with religion, caste, class. I just read one account on a very rich Sikh familily in Canada order a hit on their daughter for marrying a man who was a muslim and many other cases. But nothing in common except that in their minds they were doing nothing wrong and instead firmly believed that this is a widely accepted common practice and very justified.. We really need to start respecting our children for making their own choices or stop having children all together...
Click to expand...
It's bad enough that this is happening in the sub-Continent.

But now the desis have carried it to the West with them, and that includes some of the most highly educated, 'respected' and supposedly most enlightened and liberal members of the desi diaspora in the West.

In fact, if anything, the aforementioned group is amongst the worst. Most likely due to an attitude of "We've made it to the top of Western society. We've worked hard to get to this elevated position where we're hobnobbing with the crème de la crème. How dare our daughter marry someone from a lower level and bring us down in the eyes of this select group"
 
One last note on this Is when the judge in U.K who Sentenced the parents to jail he gave a lasting memorable response that every parents need to take note and understand is that you're loyalty and love should be only towards you're children

Mr Justice Roderick Evans said: “Your concern about being shamed in your community was greater than your love of your child"

It also divides family members as the brother of the 4 sisters felt strongly that his sister diserved death.


Shafilea’s brother Junyad remained loyal to his parents. The judge said: “I have no doubt that, as the result of the distorted upbringing and values to which you subjected him, he told his surviving sisters within minutes of them seeing Shafilea murdered by you that Shafilea deserved it.”
 
Man kills two daughters for 'honour' in Peshawar

Two young women were killed by their father "in the name of honour" in Peshawar's Achar Kali area on September 20, police said on Saturday.

According to Bala Mani Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Fazal Wahid, Abdul Gani killed his daughters — 20-year-old Shamim and 10-year-old Noreen — and confessed to the crime upon his arrest.

Amjad Gani, the accused's son, reported his crime to the police and lodged a first investigation report for his sisters' death, the DSP said.

According to Wahid, the police had to conduct several raids before the Abdul Ghani was apprehended from the Mosam Ghari area in Peshawar, two days after the murder.

According to the DSP, Abdul Ghani said killed his daughters because he was "ashamed at his daughters' conduct as they used to leave the house at all hours."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1359543/man-kills-two-daughters-for-honour-in-peshawar
 
It seems his rage got onto his nerves. The honor thing even if real deal for some people does not hold for a 10 year old. Ignorance and anger seems to be the cause of his tragic behavior.
 
Sickening mentality of people in our part of the world is a disgrace.. Even Some of the educated ones are the same as you can see from some posts in these forums.. Don't see much hope for change anytime soon..

RIp to victims
 
'Honour' killings in Karachi shock Pakistan's largest city

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lings-in-karachi-shock-pakistans-largest-city

The night Ghani Rehman was condemned to die, his father asked if they could share a last meal together. But Ghani excused himself, preferring to wait in his room. His sisters came to see him, and he gave them each a small token to remember him by: a plastic-wrapped mint drop.

The 18-year-old boy knew what was coming. Less than 24 hours earlier, the neighbour’s 15-year-old daughter Bakhtaja, with whom Ghani had tried to elope from Ali Brohi Goth, their poor neighbourhood of Karachi, had been tied down and electrocuted.
His father finished dinner, then returned. With the help of an uncle, he strapped his son to a rope bed, tying one arm and one leg to the frame with uncovered electrical wires.

Bakhtaja had endured 10 minutes of searing electrical jolts before she died. The boy took longer, and eventually the uncle stepped in and strangled him. The couple were buried in the dead of night.

In Pakistan, illegal so-called “honour” killings are a pandemic, and women its predominant victims. More Pakistani women are murdered at the hands of close family members for supposed immoral behaviour than Pakistani civilians are killed by terrorism.
Still, the murders in Ali Brohi Goth shocked Karachi, the country’s largest city. The sheer brutality was unusual, and while domestic violence is rife and “honour” killings do occur in the city, they are almost exclusively reported in rural areas where village councils run parallel judiciary systems.

“There are pockets in Karachi where tribal culture is being followed but we had no idea it was to this extent,” said Mahnaz Rahman, resident director of Auraf Foundation, a women’s rights group. Outside a secularised middle class, some communities are becoming more entrenched in their conservative values, she said.

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan has reported an average of 650 “honour” killings annually over the past decade. But since most go unreported, the real number is likely to be much higher.

Ghani and Bakhtaja had known each other since childhood. She lived on the second floor of a newly built villa, overlooking the dusty patch of ground where Ghani’s family had a brick home, and from where he would catch her eye when she stood on the balcony.

According to a police report, citing Bakhtaja’s uncle, the two teenagers had an “affair”, though it was unclear what that implied.
Ghani had a reputation as a hard-working, well-mannered boy who held two jobs. Men in the neighbourhood, where social customs keep women inside the house, didn’t know much about Bakhtaja. When asked if he could describe her, one relative said: “If I knew, I would be dead too.”

Ghani had tried several times to get permission to marry her, but was rebuffed. Eventually, the pair fled, with cash and jewellery she had stashed away.

They had made it to Hyderabad, three hours west, when Bakhtaja’s father called and said the families had agreed to the marriage and would let them return safely. It was a trick.

The fathers had, in fact, come to a settlement. Muhammad Afzal, Ghani’s father, had pledged to give Hikmat Khan, Bakhtaja’s father, two of his own daughters, a cow, and PKR 500,000 (£3,538) for the wedding. They meant to keep the agreement a secret.

But an older relative, Sirtaj Khan, got wind of the deal and exposed it to the community, insisting that the couple be put to death. Instead of braving the supposed public embarrassment, the fathers agreed with Khan to make an example of their children.
“He is an evil-minded person,” one local resident said of Khan.

While the fathers and two uncles were subsequently arrested, Khan fled for Kunar in Afghanistan. Ghani and Bakhtaja’s story was retold by neighbours, relatives and police.

In Karachi, murders within the family, though rarely publicised, are becoming more common, said Zia Ur Rehman, a journalist with the News who broke the story.

“Immigrants bring their own culture, rules and other things with them when then they move to urban centres,” he said. “In Karachi, instead of going to regular courts, some tribal people adopt their own traditional way of justice.”

Bakhtaja and Ghani are buried 10 metres apart in the local cemetery, their graves dug between shrubs and covered with red cloth still not faded by the sun and dust. Ataullah, a gravedigger, said the bodies were charred from burns when they were lowered into the ground.

Female relatives of the couple, who were not available for interviews, were “removed” from their houses when punishments were meted out, neighbours said. After the murder, Bakhtaja’s mother told human rights defenders: “I forgive him,” meaning her husband.
“The women are vulnerable and scared. They want their men back,” said Rahman, of Aurat Foundation. The arrest of the culprits left the women without financial support. Yet they don’t seem to condone the actions of their husbands.

“The girl’s mother is in a very bad state. She has stopped speaking,” said one relative who wished to remain anonymous.

Ten days after the murders, Karachi was hit by heavy monsoon rains that flooded the streets with muddy water and wrought havoc on the city. Dozens of people were electrocuted. It was God’s punishment for killing the teenage couple, the local women told each other.
 
This looks like a Pathan family, really shocking in this day and age, where the hell has free will gone.
 
It's not just Pakistan, it's the entire subcontinent. Heck this happened in London too by immigrants.
 
"More Pakistani women are murdered at the hands of close family members for supposed immoral behaviour than Pakistani civilians are killed by terrorism."

This should make every Pakistani hang their head in shame. Instead, you speak to a large enough number of people and you'll come across a significant chunk who see the fact that we're even willing to kill our own daughters/sisters/wives for our honor as a point of pride.
 
There was a case in my village ( the only time we got press coverage), when a father and uncle strangled the girl and abandoned the body in a neighbouring state. The doctor who did the post mortem said that the killers had shown compassion to the victim as there were no signs of torture or sexual assault, just one injury on the neck. Everyone knew who had done it, but the males in the village were supporting the father and uncle, and in fact, their reputation only increased, that he is a man of such honour that he even sacrifices his children to protect honour.
 
Of all the backwards cultural practices in the SC, these "honour" killings are the most barbaric.
 
I'm starting to wonder why these are described as a "shock" when in reality it is probably the prevailing culture.
 
The BBC are doing a documentary type thing on this which will air on Jan 30th.



Tuesday
21:00
BBC TWO

On 14 July 2016, Bradford girl Samia Shahid flew to Pakistan to visit her family. Six days later she was found dead. She was 28 years old. Eight days later, her first husband and father were arrested in connection with her murder. The case was taken up by Bradford MP Naz Shah, who wrote to the prime minister of Pakistan describing the case as an honour killing.

With unique access to some of Samia's closest friends, this film tells the story of Samia's life - how her arranged marriage to her cousin broke down and how her decision to divorce and re-marry for love caused a huge rift with her family. The film contains the first interview with Samia's second husband, who tells the dramatic and tragic story of Samia's return to Pakistan.

Samia's father has been released owing to lack of evidence, but her first husband remains in custody and the case in Pakistan continues. Both deny the allegations against them.
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09qjltw
 
I just saw a bbc movie called murdered by my father. It was depressing as hell and was inspired by this woman and a girl called shafilea's murder. I don't think i can sleep tonight :(
 
A British MP is writing to the prime minister of Pakistan urging him to intervene in the case of a woman from Bradford allegedly murdered in a so-called "honour killing."

Samia Shahid died while visiting relatives in 2016, but legal proceedings have been subject to repeated delays.

Her ex-husband has been accused of her murder.

Labour MP Naz Shah said she had "concerns" about the case.

The BBC understands Samia Shahid's first husband, Chaudhry Muhammad Shakeel, has been freed on bail due to a lack of progress in the trial. He denies her murder.

'Unacceptable' delays
The Bradford West MP said she wanted Prime Minister Imran Khan to intervene and make sure "that the state are prosecuting and are taking real care of what they are doing".

"The fact that he [Mr Shakeel] has been released on bail does really raise my concerns. I'm really worried about the state of the case."

She added that the delays were "unacceptable" and that the Pakistani authorities should be pursuing a conviction on the basis of forensic evidence that had been obtained in the case.

Ms Shahid died in July 2016, aged 28, at her family's ancestral village outside the city of Jhelum in northern Pakistan.

She had an arranged marriage with Mr Shakeel, her cousin, in Pakistan in 2012 but the couple's relationship broke down.

She married another man, Syed Mukhtar Kazim, in Leeds in 2014 and moved to Dubai.

Mr Kazim has claimed Ms Shahid's family strongly disapproved of their marriage.

He claimed his wife was killed after she travelled to Pakistan after being told her father was seriously ill.

It was initially ruled that she had suffered a heart attack but a post-mortem examination found she had been strangled.

Ms Shahid's father, Chaudhry Muhammad Shahid, was held as a suspected accessory to murder but released on bail. He died in January 2018 in Pakistan


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-45494325
 
3 given life sentences in connection with one of Pakistan's most notorious "honour killing" cases

Three men have been given life sentences in connection with one of Pakistan's most notorious "honour killing" cases.

Named as Omar Khan, Sabeer and Saheer, they are related to three women killed after being filmed singing and clapping at a wedding in 2011.

Their bodies were never found. Two men they were with are still in hiding. The fates of another two women are unknown.

The killings sparked a blood feud which left another four dead.

Five other men were acquitted by the court in Besham, in north-western Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Why were they killed?
The exact details of what took place are not entirely clear.

A video emerged in 2011 which appeared to show a group of women - named as Bazeegha, Sereen Jan, Begum Jan and Amina - at a wedding, singing and clapping. A fifth woman - Shaheen, who was under 18 - is also thought to have been present.

How a joyous video turned into a bloody tragedy
Why do families kill their daughters?
It also showed a man dancing - although they were never in the same shot together. A second man is said to have been filming.

It was enough, in the remote northern Kohistan district where matters of family honour are settled in blood, to warrant at least three of the women's deaths.

According to local custom, male family members of a woman suspected of an out-of-wedlock liaison - even of a seemingly innocuous nature - should first kill the woman, and then go after the man. The family of the man would not oppose this action, correspondents say.

It meant everyone in the video - which was seen as "breaching the honour" of the women's family - was in danger.

How did it come to light?
The wider world learned of the video in 2012 when Afzal Kohistani - brother of the two men involved - broke the code of silence to allege the women had been murdered, in order to save his siblings' lives.

His campaign for justice prompted the Supreme Court to order an investigation into the killings. Investigators trekked for two days to the remote village and were initially presented with three women the locals claimed were those missing. The claims were later dismissed as false.

It took until 2018 for a judge to finally order a court case into three deaths. Bazigha's father Sabeer, Seren Jan's father Saheer and Begum Jan's brother Omar Khan have now been given life sentences.

However, it is unclear what charges they were found guilty of and further details are still awaited.

But Afzal Kohistani did not live to see the sentencing. His decision to speak out led to three of his other brothers being killed in 2013, while his house was firebombed and destroyed.

Six men were convicted of those killings but later acquitted.

Then, in March 2019, Afzal Kohistani was shot dead in the north-western city of Abbottabad.

His death led activists to question why he hadn't been given adequate protection when he was a known target.

His brothers remain in hiding.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49592540
 
Good to see some justice being served but what a sick part of our society these people are.
 
Rest in Peace Afzal Kohistani.

I didnt know who this guy was, but when he was killed i read up on him and really admire that he stood up for what was right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Slim
Ethnic enclaves in the west poisoning the society
Replies
13
Views
386
iPakistani
iPakistani
G
Indian government ordered killings in Pakistan, intelligence officials claim
2 3 4
Replies
295
Views
8K
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
"Win is a win, no matter who you win against, if we lose to these teams, then we get criticized too": Hassan Ali
Replies
21
Views
1K
ravisurya
R
BouncerGuy
“If players focus on team success, milestones naturally follow, and the team will celebrate them": Mike Hesson
Replies
22
Views
2K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
MenInG
[EXCLUSIVE] "There's work to be done to bridge that gap and become one of the top teams": Bismah Maroof
Replies
11
Views
1K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
Back
Top