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ICC World Cup 2023: India v Pakistan | Match 12 | Ahmedabad | 14 October | Pre-Match Discussion

Which team will win the highly anticipated match between Pakistan and India?

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Devadwal said:
Play him for just batting and rest when fielding time came .:)
Prince like treatment for prince
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Don't think they will play him. Even Nasser echoed the same. It is a long tournament. Him being fit for the later games will be crucial. Yes it is a loss. For me it is a disappointment. I have been rooting for this guy for 5 years. Finally found his range in internationals. Locked and loaded for world cup. Kaput. Stupid dengue.
 
We should go out there no pressure, nothing to lose. Too many times we are overawed by the occasion. Same with asia cup, we went to pieces and then were low on confident when playing the game that really mattered against Sri Lanka. I think India will likely top the group anyway. So our wins against the other teams will be more important, especially Eng, Aus, NZ, SA. If we win great, if not isn't the end of the world.
 
Its all about pressure. Historically India has always been very superior to Pakistan when handling the pressure of the big occasion. Pakistan badly under performs when under pressure. Also India in the last 20 years has been superior to Pakistan in most departments and the gap has widened big time in the Kohli era.
 
I am fearing about this game now. Savak rightly said, its about pressure.

India handles pressure better than Pakistan in world cups
 
Pakistan or any team has one fool proof way against India. top 3 for nothing on the board. This works 90% of the time. Very rarely India escaped and won the game. One match where INdia cahsing 85 against Pakistan lost 8 for 3. But Kohli steered INdia home with his 49. India's lower order is extremely weak. So Indian MO shut the shop very early and get to slightly less than par score.
 
our issue is the shadab one.

Pakistan needs to bring usama mir, but they wont cause of the shadab batting factor.
 
Gone are day when India were handle pressure better than Pakistan .this Pakistan team is Play fearless cricket and just like T20 world cup streak They are going to end ODI world cup streak .
 
Rajdeep said:
Somehow not getting that Ind-Pak WC game feeling. Not sure why.

I NEVER expected it to have Bangalore 96, Centurion 03 or Mohali 11 kind of craze but even Adelaide 15 and Manchester 19 had more hype. This game is somehow giving me the 1999 WC clash where there was zero hype as India was already out of super 6.

Someone pls tell me how to get excited for this el Classico

:inti
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The match itself doesn’t carry much meaning at this point.

Pakistan are looking pretty weak after their humiliation at the Asia Cup and that has taken a whole load of masala out of the equation.

With India at home plus 120,000 fans all the onus is for them to win comfortably.

I don’t think anyone will lose any sleep in Pakistan if we lose this match.
 
Pakistan need to change tactics

Abdullah
Nawaz
Babar
Saud
Rizwan
Fakhar
Iftikhar
shadab
Hassan
Afridi
Rauf

Open the batting with Nawz and push Fakhar down the order with a little older ball. Fakhar is better fielder than Imam , so he needs to be dropped.
 
Justcrazy said:
Pakistan need to change tactics

Abdullah
Nawaz
Babar
Saud
Rizwan
Fakhar
Iftikhar
shadab
Hassan
Afridi
Rauf

Open the batting with Nawz and push Fakhar down the order with a little older ball. Fakhar is better fielder than Imam , so he needs to be dropped.
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I think they will drop someone else before Imam :) Given how ICC ranking is heavily used to push a case for a player by Pak experts Imam is not going anywhere. He is ranked no.8 or 9 in ICC ranking. One of the two Pakistanis. So he will be backed.
 
Pakistan will go with exact XI. I understand where they come from. Pakistan will need batting depth against good sides for "just in case" scenario. So spinning all rounders are here to stay.
 
Devadwal said:
Gone are day when India were handle pressure better than Pakistan .this Pakistan team is Play fearless cricket and just like T20 world cup streak They are going to end ODI world cup streak .
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It is the condition that will dictate terms. Not sure what sort of the pitch will be on offer. If it is flat like Delhi it will somewhat neutralize Indian bowlng potency. But if seams around India will have three 140k bowlers at their disposal. If it seams it will spin. Kuldeep, jaddu. Only conundrum will be Thakur vs Ashwin. They will make a call on the match day. This is a big ground. So lofted shots come with certain risks.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I think they will drop someone else before Imam :) Given how ICC ranking is heavily used to push a case for a player by Pak experts Imam is not going anywhere. He is ranked no.8 or 9 in ICC ranking. One of the two Pakistanis. So he will be backed.
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I know they will probably not , but to according to me this is the best possible XI Pakistan can field. Yes there can be case for Usama Mir as well , but I think Pakistan need shadab batting .
 
jnaveen1980 said:
It is the condition that will dictate terms. Not sure what sort of the pitch will be on offer. If it is flat like Delhi it will somewhat neutralize Indian bowlng potency. But if seams around India will have three 140k bowlers at their disposal. If it seams it will spin. Kuldeep, jaddu. Only conundrum will be Thakur vs Ashwin. They will make a call on the match day. This is a big ground. So lofted shots come with certain risks.
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If I look from India perspective , If I was captain I would play all three spinners jadeja , Ashwin and Kuldeep.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan will go with exact XI. I understand where they come from. Pakistan will need batting depth against good sides for "just in case" scenario. So spinning all rounders are here to stay.
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This "just in case" scenario already happened in the first match. The 70 runs from Shadab + Nawaz were about the difference between the two sides.


I do not see Pakistan changing the combination that has worked them for a while, but issue is both Shadab and Nawaz are in torrid bowling form. Had they been in their usual bowling form I would have been very confident going into the India match. Plus Babar as a captain does not know how to use spinners like Sarfaraz used to.
 
Mp812 said:
A funny thought just occurred to me after SA has thrashed Aus. Just imagine if SA this time win the world cup against all the odds. Imagine Bavuma holding the cup as winning captain and his name etched in SA cricketing history above Graeme Smiths, Pollocks , Kallis and De villeers
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Thats actually not unthinkable. SA have no pressure this time , they are underdogs and so playing with all freedom. But man , semis & finals are a totally different ball game though ! Just ask Ind NZ Eng !
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan or any team has one fool proof way against India. top 3 for nothing on the board. This works 90% of the time. Very rarely India escaped and won the game. One match where INdia cahsing 85 against Pakistan lost 8 for 3. But Kohli steered INdia home with his 49. India's lower order is extremely weak. So Indian MO shut the shop very early and get to slightly less than par score.
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Taking a leaf from the Dhoni playbook LOL ! It's top 4 or bust for India. Take the top 4 out and the rest will "try" to give a "valiant" fight and then will shut shop and "meekly" surrender :)
 
Syed1 said:
This "just in case" scenario already happened in the first match. The 70 runs from Shadab + Nawaz were about the difference between the two sides.


I do not see Pakistan changing the combination that has worked them for a while, but issue is both Shadab and Nawaz are in torrid bowling form. Had they been in their usual bowling form I would have been very confident going into the India match. Plus Babar as a captain does not know how to use spinners like Sarfaraz used to.
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Shadab is playing a lot of T20 leagues and cricket. He has developed a defensive strategy suitable for that format. Flat and wide sometimes varies the length from short to full. When you pitch short and wide and it turns further away and it is hard for batsman to attack right of the bat. But those kind of balls can be picked off in one dayers. You get more value out of tossing the ball up. Same goes for Nawaz who is a certified darter. He just darts into right handers pads being afraid of giving room. So he is not giving himself a chance to take wickets unless batsmen themselves make some error in judgement and get out. That is not a proper defensive bowling as well. That is more of a self-preservation bowling. If you draw a line most of his balls will miss the leg stump by some distance. Basically wide balls. But i think they are looking at their overall utility value. Hey do we have a spinner vastly superior to Nawaz or Shadab? No. So let us go with someone who can bat and field better. That is their logic behind it. Teams are scared of having a longish tail as they are on collapse away from imploding. So the bowler who is supposedly better than Shadab/Nawaz have to be significantly better than them not marginally better for them to leave these guys out.
 
When it comes to captaincy in India, Dhoni is hailed as the greatest ODI captain. Rohit is hugely underrated as captain in the shadow of/legacy of dhoni.Rohit won 5 IPL titles, winning two IPL titles against Dhoni's Chennai super kings.

Rohit is data driven and works with data analysts for hours prior to any crucial game. In addition, he is in the mould of Dhoni in terms of temperment and calmness. Sure, he lost t20 World Cup in 2022 and India lost in Asia cup in 2022, that was India not having bumrah and the bowlers being out of form, in addition to his own form.

On oct14th, rohit will be the difference in terms of handling preassure, brave decisions/risk taking decision during crunch time. we will witness tactical brilliance of Rohit unfold during the match.

In addition, India would be better prepared with Rohit leading during knock outs. It's no coincidence that he is able to extract best out of KL RAHUL, SHUBMAN GILL, Kuldeep yadava etc.
 
Devadwal said:
I'm very sad becouse less than 48 hour left for odi World Cup streak to be broken .:confused:
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I do not think so. I do not think anyone can beat this Indian team in this world cup. I will be surprise if Indian does not win the cup. India already beaten Australians, again India's challenge is England.
 
Pakistan's fortunes depends on SS Afridi and how he bowls in his opening burst. Pakistan goes as he goes.

India's fortunes depends on Rohit and Kohli. If Rohit can get past the opening burst from Shaheen, he will score big for sure.

Indian bowling is good enough to handle Pakistan's batting and vice e versa. The battle is between Pak bowling and Indian batting.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Pakistan's fortunes depends on SS Afridi and how he bowls in his opening burst. Pakistan goes as he goes.

India's fortunes depends on Rohit and Kohli. If Rohit can get past the opening burst from Shaheen, he will score big for sure.

Indian bowling is good enough to handle Pakistan's batting and vice e versa. The battle is between Pak bowling and Indian batting.
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As a fan regardless of Shaheen's form i consider SSA is the major threat. I don't deny Hasan or Haris may come out of syllabus. But given their vulnerability against any left arm seamer, he will be the major threat with new ball . SSA doesn't have to be at his best but Rohit will do the job for him with his tentativeness.
 
shokz1408 said:
Rizwan getting ready to celebrate his 100 again inshallah.
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I’m amazed he even turned up to training.

The guy must be mentally and physically cooked after the Sri Lanka game.

Kept for 50 overs, masterminded a large run chase against the run of play and remained not out at the end.

It was a superhuman feat but one that must have drained the life out of him.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
As a fan regardless of Shaheen's form i consider SSA is the major threat. I don't deny Hasan or Haris may come out of syllabus. But given their vulnerability against any left arm seamer, he will be the major threat with new ball . SSA doesn't have to be at his best but Rohit will do the job for him with his tentativeness.
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India needs some luck in the initial 5 or 6 overs. If they do, India's chance of winning will shoot through the roof.
 
The issue is Pakistan is that when even on paper they look superior to India like they did when I doa sent a depleted aide in 2018 Asia cup, they always take massive massive pressure lol.

They need to overcome that, only players who never took any pressure against India were shaheen, hafeez, Sarfi, Amir, Fakhar, Rizwam amd Azhar. Besides rizzu amd shaheen all these other guys are absent now.

Boys need to learn, Play with intent and ferocity and show what you're made of.
 
hitthestump said:
I’m amazed he even turned up to training.

The guy must be mentally and physically cooked after the Sri Lanka game.

Kept for 50 overs, masterminded a large run chase against the run of play and remained not out at the end.

It was a superhuman feat but one that must have drained the life out of him.
Click to expand...

Would have had a couple days rest, and I think an India game will pick anyone up, they’ll all be fired up. I defo see rizi out scoring Babar.
 
happydavy said:
TBH, none is sure. I don't think Pakistan is loosing sleep over middle order bowlers like Jadeja/Ashwin/Thakur. They only have to survive Bumrah/Siraj, which again ain't difficult if the idea is to just play them out. Kuldeep and Pandya in the middle order can take wickets and considering Pakistan's batting game plan is oriented towards 15-45 overs, so my sense is batting first might be useful for Pakistan. Get 275+ and they will have a strong chance.
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275 is not a big total unless its England where the ball seems and swings a lot. 270-290 is easily chasuble barring 10/3 on score board for India while chasing.
 
Rajdeep said:
Somehow not getting that Ind-Pak WC game feeling. Not sure why.

I NEVER expected it to have Bangalore 96, Centurion 03 or Mohali 11 kind of craze but even Adelaide 15 and Manchester 19 had more hype. This game is somehow giving me the 1999 WC clash where there was zero hype as India was already out of super 6.

Someone pls tell me how to get excited for this el Classico

:inti
Click to expand...
wait for match time/toss. The atmosphere will beat 2022 ind vs pak t20 worldcup at MCG.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan or any team has one fool proof way against India. top 3 for nothing on the board. This works 90% of the time. Very rarely India escaped and won the game. One match where INdia cahsing 85 against Pakistan lost 8 for 3. But Kohli steered INdia home with his 49. India's lower order is extremely weak. So Indian MO shut the shop very early and get to slightly less than par score.
Click to expand...
That strategy works for 9 put of teams not just India. Maybe not for England as they bat deep and have freakish batters
 
Mp812 said:
That strategy works for 9 put of teams not just India. Maybe not for England as they bat deep and have freakish batters
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True. But for India that weakness is significantly higher given that we have suffered such collapses quiet a few times. Teams losing 1 or 2 wickets is fine. But 3 wickets is a lot.
 
Problem is if Pakistan bat first, I think we will post a mediocre/below average score. If we chase, the pressure will be immense and I don’t think we would be able to chase a big score. 250-275 might be tough even for us. Just hoping it’s one of those CT17 days, bat first score around 350-375 and India all out under 300.
 
shokz1408 said:
Problem is if Pakistan bat first, I think we will post a mediocre/below average score. If we chase, the pressure will be immense and I don’t think we would be able to chase a big score. 250-275 might be tough even for us. Just hoping it’s one of those CT17 days, bat first score around 350-375 and India all out under 300.
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Pak have a 10% chance of winning this match.

Bowl first, bat first, there no situation or scenario in which pak come out on top v India.

If india chase, might as well switch of the TV. Game over
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
When it comes to captaincy in India, Dhoni is hailed as the greatest ODI captain. Rohit is hugely underrated as captain in the shadow of/legacy of dhoni.Rohit won 5 IPL titles, winning two IPL titles against Dhoni's Chennai super kings.

Rohit is data driven and works with data analysts for hours prior to any crucial game. In addition, he is in the mould of Dhoni in terms of temperment and calmness. Sure, he lost t20 World Cup in 2022 and India lost in Asia cup in 2022, that was India not having bumrah and the bowlers being out of form, in addition to his own form.

On oct14th, rohit will be the difference in terms of handling preassure, brave decisions/risk taking decision during crunch time. we will witness tactical brilliance of Rohit unfold during the match.

In addition, India would be better prepared with Rohit leading during knock outs. It's no coincidence that he is able to extract best out of KL RAHUL, SHUBMAN GILL, Kuldeep yadava etc.
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Don't compare IPL captioncy to international cricket .there is huge difference
 
Devadwal said:
Kuldeep is our main spinners not ash/ Jadeja.
India should play bumrah ,Shami ,Siraj + Kuldeep,Jadeja along with Pandya
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It is definitely tempting given that he plays for Titans and Ahmedabad is home ground. He has done some damage upfront with ball. But tail gets a little longer.
 
Champ_Pal said:
India needs some luck in the initial 5 or 6 overs. If they do, India's chance of winning will shoot through the roof.
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we are not title contenders if we rely on luck to negate 5-6 overs of swing. Shaheen in 2021 t20 World Cup could get Rohit and KL Rahul. I still believe Kohl's wicket would be key on oct14th since the wicket would be a psychological boost.
 
shokz1408 said:
Problem is if Pakistan bat first, I think we will post a mediocre/below average score. If we chase, the pressure will be immense and I don’t think we would be able to chase a big score. 250-275 might be tough even for us. Just hoping it’s one of those CT17 days, bat first score around 350-375 and India all out under 300.
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CT 2017 to fakhar got lucky on a no-ball and went on to score 100. It was brainless on kohl's part to field , specially with India scoring 350 in the league match.

Having said that, Pakistan's best chance is to score 300+ and remove Rohit and Kohli in the first few overs. This is the best chance.
 
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hitthestump said:
I’m amazed he even turned up to training.

The guy must be mentally and physically cooked after the Sri Lanka game.

Kept for 50 overs, masterminded a large run chase against the run of play and remained not out at the end.

It was a superhuman feat but one that must have drained the life out of him.
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People from north pakistan are usually stronger than other areas due to several factors i.e food and environment
 
Devadwal said:
Asia cup 2012
World T20 2012
Champion trophy 2013
World T20 2014
World T20 2016
Asia cup 2016
WT20 2022

You can check scoreboard ✅✅ ( all were chasing game ,Not counted his performance when India were batting)
Click to expand...

You missed Champions Trophy 2017
 
kingusama92 said:
It's a fascinating decision.

The pressure of an Indo-PAK chase vs easier batting conditions in the 2nd innings.

It'll be interesting to see which direction Babar goes in if he wins the toss.
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Win the toss and bat is the tried and tested mantra

Though i think Babar will be hoping to lose the toss
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
CT 2017 to fakhar got lucky on a no-ball and went on to score 100. It was brainless on kohl's part to field , specially with India scoring 350 in the league match.

Having said that, Pakistan's best chance is to score 300+ and remove Rohit and Kohli in the first few overs. This is the best chance.
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Yeah fakhars career was made from that no ball. It’s a difficult one, maybe India win the toss and can decide haha. The thing is in front of 130k fans playing v india at their home, it might be better pressure wise for the whole playing 11 to be on the field, ease into the game.

Although batting first and scoring 350ish would be ideal, I’d expect us scoring between 250-300. Can’t see that being enough v India, although we’d have a 60/40 chance in chasing that if India were restricted to that.
 
Devadwal said:
Batting first is biggest advantage in pressure game and under the light new bowl will swing for first 7-8 over . only fear bowling second is dew effect .
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I think chasing side will win the game.

on these flat tracks u must be aware about the target which u r going to chase.
 
My view is India have already won this game before the first bowl has even been bowled. That opinion comes less from the actual game itself (which can go either way on the day) and more from the psychological aspect that Team India have adopted extremely well.

Years ago both sides were very good with their pre game banter and now if you notice India hardly talk up Pakistan games whereas all you hear from Pakistan players past and present is how much they want to beat India... what Kohli's wicket would mean to them etc etc.

Its almost a reverse psychology play which has worked for Team India very well. The most recent example being the Asia Cup debacle with the PCB shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on a reserve day because of how important the game was to them!

What Pakistan need to do is stop talking about these games like lives depend on them and treat them like just another game of cricket. That would take away so much of the pressure that Pakistan put on themselves and help them to actually compete to their full potential and importantly ENJOY the occasion.

I'm surprised that in this day and age the coaching staff do not do more psychological work with the players. I think this is one aspect where they are let down as a group of young men.

That said..Team Pakistan to win inshallah and even better would be a close game as opposed to these one sided matches we've been having so far (barring the Pak/SL game the other night!).
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
Always bat first and hope to put up a decent score in a match like this. That's how CT was won.
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I’m not so sure this time. The dew is gonna have a big effect and if Pakistan can bat second then Ashwin, Jadeja, and Kuldeep Yadav will be neutralized a little bit by the wet ball.

Also, our bowling line up is our weaker link right now, I’m not even sure if we could defend 300 under the lights with the dew adding up.
 
The toss will be crucial. With 130,000 fans, it will be prudent to go onto the ground as a team and be there to back and support each other. This pitch has also shown to be much better under lights and dew may play a role.

Not to mention that we chased 340 last time around.

Bowl first, take early wickets and we'll be on our way to a famous win, InshaAllah.
 
Devadwal said:
Asia cup 2012
World T20 2012
Champion trophy 2013
World T20 2014
World T20 2016
Asia cup 2016
WT20 2022

You can check scoreboard ✅✅ ( all were chasing game ,Not counted his performance when India were batting)
Click to expand...
So the only full ODI game in which he's chased successfully is the Asia Cup 2012.

Regardless, our batters just broke the world record for a world cup chase. We should bat second.
 
Bilal7 said:
So the only full ODI game in which he's chased successfully is the Asia Cup 2012.

Regardless, our batters just broke the world record for a world cup chase. We should bat second.
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Than it's easy call as Indian want to bat first anyway. I agree Pakistan is hot favourite to win the match
 
Devadwal said:
Than it's easy call as Indian want to bat first anyway. I agree Pakistan is hot favourite to win the match
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Why bat first? I don't understand. Is it not the same ground and a similar pitch to the one where the Kiwis slaughtered England?
 
Also, at this point I’m done doubting our team. We can pull this off, I don’t care what the media or pundits say.
 
Bilal7 said:
Why bat first? I don't understand. Is it not the same ground and a similar pitch to the one where the Kiwis slaughtered England?
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In pressure matches batting first is way to go . England bowling were not a great in that match so they lost the match.
new ball definitely swing under light if we can take two wickets early then we have some chance otherwise we are not going win while chasing against Pakistan anyway
 
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