India [649/9d] beat West Indies [181 & 196] by an innings and 272 runs in the first Test

Rahul may have lost his "opening" ability! He is getting out mostly to the new ball with lack of defense! I think he can eye for full time "middle order spot" in this Indian lineup. There are openings available both in LOI & Tests. He can compete with even Rahane in tests (or settle for No.6 spot whenever India goes for extra batsman). In LOIs it is relatively lesser competition. I guess he should be happy to play just LOIs & IPL. Since he has developed the power game it would be more easier for him to survive as middle order batsman where there is less competition! (even Ambati Rayudu opens for his T20 team because of power ability perhaps!) As a middle order batsman he should just improve his running between wicket, fielding, etc.

Certainly disappointed with him as an opener! You just can't get out like this for so many times. Opener's dismissal directly affects the team's performance! I think he is one of the main reasons for our loss in South Africa & England! Of course you can say he is a newcomer, his first tour, others also did same in their first tour, etc! But there are certain things which go against him as well (those were weakest England & SA side in decades and today is the best case where he should have simply capitalized! No excuses for such lapses!)
 
It is a failure. Underperformance is a failure.

Underperformance is not the same as failure. KL Rahul's innings was a failure. 41 runs is not a failure in any test match on any track. Let's stop looking at things in such a binary fashion.

Rahane has been out of form for a long time and that is a cause for concern. Definitely. But today's innings was not a failure. Period.
 
Did any one watch the game? All I read the last two days was his technique while driving is faulty
 
Did any one watch the game? All I read the last two days was his technique while driving is faulty

Watched his entire innings. People have to be out of their mind to say his technique is faulty. His trigger movement is backfoot not frontfoot like the current players. He is more like Tendulkar, Sehwag. He is superemely ac onfident batsman. He will have a great career. Actually i quiet like his technique.
 
Prithvi shaw being a backfoot player will do well in australia.
KL Rahul looks like he's been found out.
 
KL Rahul looks like he's been found out.

He's not been found out. It's just a mental thing he picked up in England because he was trying too hard to not nick the ball to the keeper or slips.

I've been watching KL from day 1 and this was not a flaw that he's had all along. He's always been good off the pads.

This is just a mental block and he'll get over it soon enough because he is a quality batsman.
 
Underperformance is not the same as failure. KL Rahul's innings was a failure. 41 runs is not a failure in any test match on any track. Let's stop looking at things in such a binary fashion.

Rahane has been out of form for a long time and that is a cause for concern. Definitely. But today's innings was not a failure. Period.

Its a failure when opposition is WI. you had the best chance to regain form in home turf but you blew it.
 
He's not been found out. It's just a mental thing he picked up in England because he was trying too hard to not nick the ball to the keeper or slips.

I've been watching KL from day 1 and this was not a flaw that he's had all along. He's always been good off the pads.

This is just a mental block and he'll get over it soon enough because he is a quality batsman.

Been hearing about his mental thing since 2 years now. He performs like a God in IPL and again back to mental block when it comes to international cricket. Scores a century in each series and goes missing most of the time when team needs him the most. If he doesn't get over his mental thing now, then when? How many days can we fans tolerate his mental block and his inconsistency. The whole of England series I anticipated for KL to show up after that T20 hundred, but he went missing until that last innings 149. And now he starts with a duck again against this depleted WI side. It's quite frustrating for people who have been fond of Rahul-the-batsman. How long should we bear with mental thing? He has to get some psychological advice and fix his issues or soon will perish with his inconsistency and I just don't want that to happen to Rahul of all the batsmen.
 
So you would rather India had gotten all out for 0, rather than trying to save the match?

No need to sensationalize my statement with your OTT reactions. You too know that what I meant. He did nothing in the first 4 tests if this was any other team he wouldn't have played the last test. You can keep his century close to your heart because it didn't help India in drawing that match.
 
Been hearing about his mental thing since 2 years now. He performs like a God in IPL and again back to mental block when it comes to international cricket. Scores a century in each series and goes missing most of the time when team needs him the most. If he doesn't get over his mental thing now, then when? How many days can we fans tolerate his mental block and his inconsistency. The whole of England series I anticipated for KL to show up after that T20 hundred, but he went missing until that last innings 149. And now he starts with a duck again against this depleted WI side. It's quite frustrating for people who have been fond of Rahul-the-batsman. How long should we bear with mental thing? He has to get some psychological advice and fix his issues or soon will perish with his inconsistency and I just don't want that to happen to Rahul of all the batsmen.

Good post. This thing of not scoring when it matters the most is his biggest problem. Did nothing in the first 4 tests and scored in the last test which we also lost it in the end.

KL Rahul should get his act together as soon as possible otherwise guys like Shaw, Gill and Mayank will take his place.
 
With the sort of new-age "instant satisfaction" attitude you have, I'm surprised you're so anti-IPL. One would think you would love it.

Thankfully, the team management doesn't believe in your "live by the sword, die by the sword" philosophy.

This same KL Rahul scored 7 back-to-back half centuries throughout a very tough series against Australia. He scored a century on his only tour outside Asia before this (Australia) and even scored big runs against Eng in 2016.
First tour of SA and ENG is very difficult for most batsmen. Even someone of the calibre of Kohli failed to get a single 50, even in dead rubbers.

I shudder to think how much talent we would have thrown away if the BCCI thought like you.
Yeah BCCI should think like you and remind every one of Rahul's perfomances against Australia while ignoring the current in form batsmen in domestics who are waiting in line for their opportunities. Rahul should have been dropped after that England tour and Mayank should have played in this test instead. BCCI also picks Dhoni, Shardul, Kaul etc I hope you respect their selections then as well.
 
Against WI on this track and after that start it certainly should be considered a failure.

An average of 40 after investing so many years in Rahane is shocking. If he can't even score heavily at home against the likes of West Indies then he will end his career with an avg of 38.
 
An average of 40 after investing so many years in Rahane is shocking. If he can't even score heavily at home against the likes of West Indies then he will end his career with an avg of 38.

I always believed he is a late 30 avg calibre batsman
 
I always thought India's ODI middle order was very weak, how is test version any better if not worse. The rot starts at top, rahul, pujara (as useless as rahul outiside, when it matters), rahane (plus selected when he should not have been and dropped when required). So 3 spots are up for grabs for youngsters in next 1 year or so. I am quite sure these three with TALENT will again fail in AUs. And "work on tecnicalities". Pujara saving grace only asia, seems to have lost that too.
 
Tough little innings for Pant towards the end of the day. Looked a compulsive hooker but never in control.

Batting with his captain, he has a godsend opportunity to score big and press for a claim in ODIs and T20s. He can not afford to fail in any opportunity in these two tests. Has to survive the opening burst from Gabriel without getting out.
 
Been hearing about his mental thing since 2 years now. He performs like a God in IPL and again back to mental block when it comes to international cricket. Scores a century in each series and goes missing most of the time when team needs him the most. If he doesn't get over his mental thing now, then when? How many days can we fans tolerate his mental block and his inconsistency. The whole of England series I anticipated for KL to show up after that T20 hundred, but he went missing until that last innings 149. And now he starts with a duck again against this depleted WI side. It's quite frustrating for people who have been fond of Rahul-the-batsman. How long should we bear with mental thing? He has to get some psychological advice and fix his issues or soon will perish with his inconsistency and I just don't want that to happen to Rahul of all the batsmen.

Idk who else has mentioned KL Rahul's mental block earlier but he's never had one before. This current situation is a direct result of his batting in SA and ENG. He was quite nervy outside his off-stump and was worried about nicking the ball. It's only since then that I've seen his trouble with the incoming delivery. I've been following KL Rahul's cricket since 2012/13 and this is not a techinical issue that he ever had before. So I'm sure he'll get over it.

It's not just unfair but also incorrect to say that he goes missing when the team needs him the most. In the home series against AUS in 2017 he took up all the resposibilty and scored 7 fifties in 8 innings when our two best batsmen - Kohli and Rahane were not scoring runs. He scored an absolutely critical 90 in a team total of 180 in the 2nd test in Bengaluru. We would have lost the series then and there if it wasn't for KL.

Even Kevin Pietersen scored at a mediocre avg of 36 on his first tour of IND against bowlers like Munaf Patel, Amit Mishra and Ojha. First tours to ENG are a very tough, especially for openers. You saw how every single top-order batsman, be it Cook or Root struggled in that series. I would urge to not adopt a "use and throw" attitude like [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]. You do not build teams that way.

Yes, it's been frustrating for me to watch KL recently as well. But you have to remember that he is still a mere 28 matches into his career. He's shown enough capability for both the team and the fans to stick with him, even if he has an odd rough patch here and there.
 
Yeah BCCI should think like you and remind every one of Rahul's perfomances against Australia while ignoring the current in form batsmen in domestics who are waiting in line for their opportunities. Rahul should have been dropped after that England tour and Mayank should have played in this test instead. BCCI also picks Dhoni, Shardul, Kaul etc I hope you respect their selections then as well.

I sincerely hope the BCCI doesn't listen to you, even if they don't listen to me. Because with your attitude of throwing away players after every 4 bad matches, no body can ever build a team. Tomorrow if you pick Mayank, and then 10 matches down the road he fails for 5 matches, what will you do then? Just keep on with this mindless rotation of players?

As for that last sentence - yes, they have picked Shardul and Kaul. But they have also picked Chahal, Kuldeep, Bumrah, Vihari and now Shaw and Siraj. Or are you perpetually a "glass half-empty" sort of guy?
 
I sincerely hope the BCCI doesn't listen to you, even if they don't listen to me. Because with your attitude of throwing away players after every 4 bad matches, no body can ever build a team. Tomorrow if you pick Mayank, and then 10 matches down the road he fails for 5 matches, what will you do then? Just keep on with this mindless rotation of players?

As for that last sentence - yes, they have picked Shardul and Kaul. But they have also picked Chahal, Kuldeep, Bumrah, Vihari and now Shaw and Siraj. Or are you perpetually a "glass half-empty" sort of guy?

You know you start losing credibility(if you had any in the first place) when you put words in other's mouth and assuming things about someone else.

Just because I suggested Rahul to be dropped after 2 bad tours(not 4 matches) and asked him to go back to domestics means I have an attitude of throwing players out? Lol. At least learn to understand what's written. I didn't ask Rahul to be dropped forever. He can score runs and come back again. It is better to pick players who are in red hot form in domestics when players like Rahane and Rahul are finding it tough to score runs at home. You are even defending Rahane here who hasn't done anything special in his last couple of innings. May be you love mediocrity?

Regarding BCCI, they dropped Karun Nair too even after scoring a triple hundred. Manish Pandey never got a consistent run in the team after scoring a ton against Australia in Australia. Do you have any answer?
 
You know you start losing credibility(if you had any in the first place) when you put words in other's mouth and assuming things about someone else.

Just because I suggested Rahul to be dropped after 2 bad tours(not 4 matches) and asked him to go back to domestics means I have an attitude of throwing players out? Lol. At least learn to understand what's written. I didn't ask Rahul to be dropped forever. He can score runs and come back again. It is better to pick players who are in red hot form in domestics when players like Rahane and Rahul are finding it tough to score runs at home. You are even defending Rahane here who hasn't done anything special in his last couple of innings. May be you love mediocrity?

Regarding BCCI, they dropped Karun Nair too even after scoring a triple hundred. Manish Pandey never got a consistent run in the team after scoring a ton against Australia in Australia. Do you have any answer?

I understood exactly what you said. I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth. You want players to be dropped from the national team every time they fail in 5 matches. That's a terrible team philosophy and I'm surprised a long-time cricket fan like you are even suggesting something so silly. This is something one can expect from PCB. It's not how it works in India and it shouldn't.

And LOL. talk about putting words in mouths. When did I defend Rahane? I have written in this very thread and I qoute "Rahane has been out of form for a long time and that is a cause for concern. Definitely. But today's innings was not a failure. Period."

Does that sound like I am defending Rahane or does it sound like I am defending the idea that a score of 40 is not a "failure"?

As far as Pandey is concerned I have often expressed my displeasure about Pandey and Iyer not gettin enough chances in ODIs, right here on PP. However, I have seen posts from you calling Pandey a TTF. So let's not be hypocritical.
 
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I understood exactly what you said. I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth. You want players to be dropped from the national team every time they fail in 5 matches. That's a terrible team philosophy and I'm surprised a long-time cricket fan like you are even suggesting something so silly. This is something one can expect from PCB. It's not how it works in India and it shouldn't.

And LOL. talk about putting words in mouths. When did I defend Rahane? I have written in this very thread and I qoute "Rahane has been out of form for a long time and that is a cause for concern. Definitely. But today's innings was not a failure. Period."

Does that sound like I am defending Rahane or does it sound like I am defending the idea that a score of 40 is not a "failure"?

As far as Pandey is concerned I have often expressed my displeasure about Pandey and Iyer not gettin enough chances in ODIs, right here on PP. However, I have seen posts from you calling Pandey a TTF. So let's not be hypocritical.

Sir, when and where did I call Pandey a TTF?
 
I have laid it all out in front of you. I have shown why you're decision to drop KL is a bad one. Like I said, say you get Mayank in for KL. If tomorrow Mayank fails in Aus, then what will you do? Bring back KL again and have this useless cycle keep on repeating. No! That is not how you build a team.

And if you don't believe me, at least believe Ganguly. Read his autobiography and you'll see what he wrote about how it's very important to give a long rope to your players, especially your top talents (which KL is). Nobody can perform if they are always worried about getting fired any day. Sehwag wouldn't be the player he is today, if Ganguly went by your philosophy and dropped him after every failure with the bat.

Your philosophy about this is just wrong. Period.
 
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I have laid it all out in front of you. I have shown why you're decision to drop KL is a bad one. Like I said, say you get Mayank in for KL. If tomorrow Mayank fails in Aus, then what will you do? Bring back KL again and have this useless cycle keep on repeating. No! That is not how you build a team.

And if you don't believe me, at least believe Ganguly. Read his autobiography and you'll see what he wrote about how it's very important to give a long rope to your players, especially your top talents (which KL is). Nobody can perform if they are always worried about getting fired any day. Sehwag wouldn't be the player he is today, if Ganguly went by your philosophy and dropped him after every failure with the bat.

Your philosophy about this is just wrong. Period.

Never said to drop KL Rahul forever. He can come back again but right now guys like Mayank should get their chances. I am disappointed with Rahul's performance. He started the England tour with a bang and ended it with a century but he did nothing in between. I can't see India batting twice in this test so yeah Mayank should get a chance in the next test match. This is as simple as it gets.
 
Didnt Rahul just played an epic innings walking at nothing for 3 in the last test at Oval? Few posters need to be bit patient. Sending to domestics is not always a good option. If anything it demotivate players. We have moved on from Dhawan and Vijay from tests, so selectors are looking at Rahul-Shaw as long term option for opening slot.
 
However, its high time we drop Rahane. A meek cricketer who dont add any value to the side. Shubhman Gill should replace him asap.
 
Never said to drop KL Rahul forever. He can come back again but right now guys like Mayank should get their chances. I am disappointed with Rahul's performance. He started the England tour with a bang and ended it with a century but he did nothing in between. I can't see India batting twice in this test so yeah Mayank should get a chance in the next test match. This is as simple as it gets.

Sending him to domestics is not an option right now. And here's why.

KL is also a part of the LOI squad. So even if he is not in the playing XI, he will be touring with the Indian team to Aus and NZ when the Ranji season is on.

Which means that once he is dropped from the test squad, he won't even get the chance to go back to FC cricket and score runs to make a comeback.

So no. Dropping KL Rahul to try an untested Mayank Aggarwal - and touring AUS with two debutant openers - is a terrible, terrible idea.
 
However, its high time we drop Rahane. A meek cricketer who dont add any value to the side. Shubhman Gill should replace him asap.

Gill is not ready for international cricket yet, mate.

Plus, why would you have Gill replace Rahane when you already have Vihari in the squad and Nair waiting in the sidelines. Surely, those two deserve a chance before Gill. Even Ankit Bawne deserves a chance before Gill, at this point because Bawne has performed for India A. Gill hasn't even played any FC games for Ind A yet. It would be unfair on players like Vihari and Nair if Gill is selected over them now.
 
Gill is not ready for international cricket yet, mate.

Plus, why would you have Gill replace Rahane when you already have Vihari in the squad and Nair waiting in the sidelines. Surely, those two deserve a chance before Gill. Even Ankit Bawne deserves a chance before Gill, at this point because Bawne has performed for India A. Gill hasn't even played any FC games for Ind A yet. It would be unfair on players like Vihari and Nair if Gill is selected over them now.

Vihari is alright. Just gritty. Not the final answer.
Nair is a dud. He cannot play pace bowling. Anything over 140k's, his stumps take a tumble.

Gill looked at ease against the likes of Ngidi in IPL. He is also very good player of spin. He will be the final solution. Not a stop gap fix like Vihari or Nair.
 
Vihari is alright. Just gritty. Not the final answer.
Nair is a dud. He cannot play pace bowling. Anything over 140k's, his stumps take a tumble.

Gill looked at ease against the likes of Ngidi in IPL. He is also very good player of spin. He will be the final solution. Not a stop gap fix like Vihari or Nair.

Vihari need to be backed. Need a solid batsman.
 
Mayank and siraj must be tried in the 2nd test.Umesh and Rahane need to sit out.
I'd rest pujara and play vihari as well.
 
Mayank and siraj must be tried in the 2nd test.Umesh and Rahane need to sit out.
I'd rest pujara and play vihari as well.

Mayank is again T20 hack, no technique to survive in seaming conditions. Siraj - way too short of temperament . His heart is like mini-chicken. Happen to see his first match. Not made for International level.
 
Apparently the 'specialist opener' Rahul can't even open now!

Except for that dead rubber 149 at Oval, he has been pedestrian for so many months now. So much for him being more talented than Virat.

PS: Did I mention he also wasted 2 reviews while being plumb LBW in 2 successive innings?
 
With so much talent rotting in domestic cricket we are better off not having "Overseas Specialist" and "Specialist Opener" in final XI. However considering how Kohli-Shastri nexus operates, do not hold your breath to see this happen any time soon.
 
So disappointing not to see Bumrah in final XI. What has Umesh done to justify his selection as 1 of the 2 pacers selected for this game?

Virat has to be worst ever captain as far as team selection is concerned!
 
So disappointing not to see Bumrah in final XI. What has Umesh done to justify his selection as 1 of the 2 pacers selected for this game?

Virat has to be worst ever captain as far as team selection is concerned!

Sure. Play Bumrah in every damn series and turn him into a line and length trundler within an year. Thank goodness you're not a selector
 
Sure. Play Bumrah in every damn series and turn him into a line and length trundler within an year. Thank goodness you're not a selector
Why not? Is he made of glass or an inferior player who'll get spoiled in playing test matches? If he does, its better for India's sake he does that sooner rather than later.

If anything every test playing nation plays (or must) its best XI in a test match, player rotation is for LoIs only.
 
Also he is playing almost non stop cricket for what 2 years now except for that break during Eng trip. Hasn't dropped his pace one bit till date.
 
Even if he concedes too many byes, his technique may not be top notch, Pant is surely an upgrade over Saha who himself didn't have that great batting technique.
 
Well observed by someone at Cricinfo,

Sasikanth: "@Ashish Chandy - at times weaknesses pop up when batsmen adapt their technique to something. In domestic cricket, Rahul was a compiler who liked to play at a strike rate of 50. That changed after the IPL. Since then, he started planting his front foot a little away from the line of the ball to afford room for a good bat swing. But that made him a keeper/slip catch candidate. He is now overcompensating for that by planting his front foot in line with the ball making him lbw candidate."
 
IND needs to bat till 1 hour after tea, to take this Test to Day 5 (That too, if VK doesn't enforce the follow on)
 
Compare how Rahane batted vs how Pant is batting. He's made mistakes, at times looked ungainly but hasn't gone into his shell. Keeps looking for opportunities to play shots.
 
Mayank is again T20 hack, no technique to survive in seaming conditions. Siraj - way too short of temperament . His heart is like mini-chicken. Happen to see his first match. Not made for International level.
Lol.Mayank is not even a good T20 player.Were you sleeping when he was scoring truck loads of runs in both domestics and A tour matches recently.Same is the case with Siraj.Both have been rewarded for their consistancy.
 
How i wish we had Pant in our ODI team instead of that selfish grandpa who is refusing to retire.
 
Dynamite Kohli .... this man will go down as the second greatest batsman from Asia, if not the greatest.
 
Virat has pretty much sleepwalked into his 24th hundred. only 7 fours. Never looked remotely stretched.

At the top of his game right now.
 
Well observed by someone at Cricinfo,

Sasikanth: "@Ashish Chandy - at times weaknesses pop up when batsmen adapt their technique to something. In domestic cricket, Rahul was a compiler who liked to play at a strike rate of 50. That changed after the IPL. Since then, he started planting his front foot a little away from the line of the ball to afford room for a good bat swing. But that made him a keeper/slip catch candidate. He is now overcompensating for that by planting his front foot in line with the ball making him lbw candidate."

Would you also like to see Mayank in place of Rahul?
 
Is there any kind of enjoyment in bashing these runs on these flat pancakes? These kind of pitches and matches just make you question the relevance of test matches.
 
Is there any kind of enjoyment in bashing these runs on these flat pancakes? These kind of pitches and matches just make you question the relevance of test matches.

I suggest you reserve your comment at least after West Indies has played its first inning.
 
Is there any kind of enjoyment in bashing these runs on these flat pancakes? These kind of pitches and matches just make you question the relevance of test matches.
Let both teams play on this strip and then make your conclusions, no?
 
Is Kohli trying something new, I can't remember seeing him play like this.
 
Why not? We don't have paucity of talent at the moment. Then why to settle for mediocrity?

Exactly. There is no harm in giving chances to guys like Mayank now. But some people want Rahul to continue playing for India because he scored a century in the last test against England which we eventually lost in the end. :inti
 
Exactly. There is no harm in giving chances to guys like Mayank now. But some people want Rahul to continue playing for India because he scored a century in the last test against England which we eventually lost in the end. :inti

I don't really consider his century any less just because we lost. My problem with him during that series is that he was easily the worst top order batsman in the first 4 Tests which really mattered. And that century came in a dead rubber after we had already lost the series. This should be his last Test series, provided he flatters to deceive. It's simply been frustrating watching him waste a spot in the top order.
 
I don't really consider his century any less just because we lost. My problem with him during that series is that he was easily the worst top order batsman in the first 4 Tests which really mattered. And that century came in a dead rubber after we had already lost the series. This should be his last Test series, provided he flatters to deceive. It's simply been frustrating watching him waste a spot in the top order.

Good post. I said the exact same thing above that he didn't do anything in the first 4 tests. Team management showed full confidence in him and gave him 5 tests but he failed miserably. It's just that this opinion is coming from someone who doesn't like IPL so it can't be right. :inti
 
Jadeja should score a century here and confirm that he once upon a time dreamed to be a batsman!
 
Exactly. There is no harm in giving chances to guys like Mayank now. But some people want Rahul to continue playing for India because he scored a century in the last test against England which we eventually lost in the end. :inti

I have been a huge admirer of Rahul-the-batsman but his time is running out. There are 3 to 4 quality openers waiting in the wing to grab the opportunity with both hands. Rahul lacks the temperament and hunger for success with his casual approach and doesn't put a price to wicket most of the times. He's turning very unreliable these days and not looking as solid as he was during his initial phase of Test career. May it be his mental thing or his technical flaws, he needs to fix them right now or better let other youngsters take over his spot. We can't keep giving him chances just because he's TALENTED, and he's not the only TALENTED one. Period.
 
Good post. I said the exact same thing above that he didn't do anything in the first 4 tests. Team management showed full confidence in him and gave him 5 tests but he failed miserably. It's just that this opinion is coming from someone who doesn't like IPL so it can't be right. :inti

Being talented doesn't give any unproven player the liberty to play series after series without performance. I don't really care if a player is labelled talented unless he doesn't produce the results. No other player frustrated me more in the entire England tour more than him. Murali Vijay frustrated me a lot as well, but still not much as much as Rahul. And what exactly did he do in the entire tour? Score a century in one of the T20 match, a format that is not even taken seriously. And after doing jack in the first 4 Tests when Kohli was doing all the job as a batsman, our lion-heart suddenly found back his rhythm in that dead rubber. I couldn't have cared less even if we won that dead rubber Test.
 
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