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India vs Australia | 2nd Test | Bangalore | October 9-13

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Ozs going down.
ricky-ponting.jpg
 
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Now I know why Yousuf meant when he said, "i was learning the art of captaincy from Ponting" :p
 
Amoeba said:
Possibly and that is why I was heading towards my bunker. However I guess the question isn't about the successful chases. It is about the unsuccessful chases and in how many of those has Tenders scored big but India have failed.

I guess as a Pakistani - this perception has been there based upon Madras 99.
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Yep, kind of what I was saying. When Laxman or Seheag or Dravid fails in a 4th innings chase, which every batsmen will more than suceed, its never noticed, only their sucesses are. With Sachin its the other way around
 
20 percent credit to dhoni for sending him up
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Pujara is full of beans, but how lucky has vijay been; Great tactics by Johnson.

Venku saying he tweeted about Pujara!
 
Sameer K said:
Great men get noticed when they fall, ordinary men when they succeed.
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True..........but I guess my point is that cricket is played in the mind as much as on grass. It is the closest thing we have to a physical form of chess. In the heat of the battle it is those with the coolest heads that often succeed. The old Kipling line about "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs............." comes to mind.

Anyway in that respect we had many renknowned champions playing that day - Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Inzy (and don't laugh) Afridi. People who knew all about handling pressure and it was by their sheer will, their sheer ability to change things or make them happen that we won that day. Tendulkar stood tall (well as tall as he can) but when it came to the crucial test he succumbed - his mental processes failed and he didn't manage to take his team over the final hurdle.

Pakistan have been blessed with two of the finest finishing batsmen ever - Javed & Inzy.........players who we knew if they were still there at the end then our team would have won...........sometimes almost singlehandedly due to them.
 
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Amoeba said:
Pakistan have been blessed with two of the finest finishing batsmen ever - Javed & Inzy.........players who we knew if they were still there at the end then our team would have won...........sometimes almost singlehandedly due to them.
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Inzamam, finisher?

Unless you're talking about ODIs, Inzamam's batting doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to 4th innings chases. In his 100+ Test career he's got a grand total of two successful chases. One of them coming against the mighty Bangladeshis.
 
Amoeba said:
True..........but I guess my point is that cricket is played in the mind as much as on grass. It is the closest thing we have to a physical form of chess. In the heat of the battle it is those with the coolest heads that often succeed. The old Kipling line about "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs............." comes to mind.

Anyway in that respect we had many renknowned champions playing that day - Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Inzy (and don't laugh) Afridi. People who knew all about handling pressure and it was by their sheer will, their sheer ability to change things or make them happen that we won that day. Tendulkar stood tall (well as tall as he can) but when it came to the crucial test he succumbed - his mental processes failed and he didn't manage to take his team over the final hurdle.

Pakistan have been blessed with two of the finest finishing batsmen ever - Javed & Inzy.........players who we knew if they were still there at the end then our team would have won...........sometimes almost singlehandedly due to them.
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There has to be a winning team and a losing team. If India had one that day, would you say Wasim,Waqar,Saqlain and Inzy succumbed to pressure??

It is a sport. People will get out. You will get a good ball, sometimes an unplayable ball.

Its not like Sachin started crying on the pitch screaming "Too much pressure!!!".

I read sachin's quote recently where he said "only the effort is in my hands not the outcome".

You are of the opinion that a second innings chase puts too much pressure on tendulkar and that he can't handle it.

He walks in to bat with a billion people cheering for him, expecting him to hit a century everytime. A billion people whose joy or disappointment lies in his hands. That, my friend, is far more pressure than any of us can even imagine. He has been facing that pressure for 20 years now.
 
Tapori said:


Pujara is full of beans, but how lucky has vijay been; Great tactics by Johnson.

Venku saying he tweeted about Pujara!
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Lol pride of chennai has talent.Luckiness is exaggerated these days.Only time lucky was first innings when he was plumb,that too after he made about 70 odd runs

If shane watson want caught first over first test he wouldnt have made century,if hussey had not been given bad decisions we wouldnt have spoken bad about him now,if ojha given out laxman wouldnt have been celebrated as much as he is now.no ifs,buts,lucks incricket.all mistakes.

Lucky nahi hai.Murali vijay is plucky
 
Aussies going to be 5 th after this loss , it has never ever happened before . Woooow !
 
some unimaginative captaincy by ponting.. to give the ball to hauritz and to set such a defensive field with 5 men on the boundary. If he is that defensive he should have gone for clarke bowling a negative line in the rough..

but this is any day better than what he did during the last series by asking hussey to finish of the overs when a win was a clear possibility
 
"How the hell can hauritz bowl to this field ?? Feeling for hauritz , terrible !! What are these tactics ? Sorry Ricky but what are you doing"

-- Warne in his twitter..
 
If Pakistan had lost that day - yes I would have put it down to pressure of course. We can all score runs when there is nothing riding on it but cricket is a game that the closer you get the harder it gets..........just ask an Aussie after 2005, or maybe a Saffer in 99..............However the Pakistani players mentioned were reknowned for their ability to handle pressure and I for one was relatively confident that they would pull it off.

Of course any batsman can get an unplayable ball at any time but then again credit is due to the bowler for having the nerves, the calmness of thought and of course the ability to deliver such a ball at such a time when he too could succumb to pressure. But iirc Tendulkar's dismissal that day wasn't a great unplayable delivery - it was more a miscalculated shot which underlines my point. Similarly Wasim could have dropped the catch - succumbing to pressure - but he didn't.

As for the point of 1bn people expecting him to score everytime - well with talent comes responsibility to use it wisely. As Keith Miller famously said to Michael Parkinson - "Pressure is having a Messerschmitts up your backside.........." As a cricketer the expectations of 1bn people is not relevant but the responsibility to ensure that your team wins is.
 
India should be thankful to ponting.. by not placing a single slip, he is giving away free runs through the slip cordon..
 
Amoeba said:
If Pakistan had lost that day - yes I would have put it down to pressure of course. We can all score runs when there is nothing riding on it but cricket is a game that the closer you get the harder it gets..........just ask an Aussie after 2005, or maybe a Saffer in 99..............However the Pakistani players mentioned were reknowned for their ability to handle pressure and I for one was relatively confident that they would pull it off.

Of course any batsman can get an unplayable ball at any time but then again credit is due to the bowler for having the nerves, the calmness of thought and of course the ability to deliver such a ball at such a time when he too could succumb to pressure. But iirc Tendulkar's dismissal that day wasn't a great unplayable delivery - it was more a miscalculated shot which underlines my point. Similarly Wasim could have dropped the catch - succumbing to pressure - but he didn't.

As for the point of 1bn people expecting him to score everytime - well with talent comes responsibility to use it wisely. As Keith Miller famously said to Michael Parkinson - "Pressure is having a Messerschmitts up your backside.........." As a cricketer the expectations of 1bn people is not relevant but the responsibility to ensure that your team wins is.
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I agree with most part of your statement.. it is definitely not an unplayable ball.. but it is not his mis calculation alone that led to his wicket.. he was suffering a severe back injury.. which made him to look for quick runs and finish of the match...

But history teaches only one thing that is 'Winning'... no matter how you get it.. winner takes it all.. had the remaining four people got those last few runs that knock would have been one of the best of all time.. but now it is being used to mock him..
 
Amoeba said:
Of course any batsman can get an unplayable ball at any time but then again credit is due to the bowler for having the nerves, the calmness of thought and of course the ability to deliver such a ball at such a time when he too could succumb to pressure. But iirc Tendulkar's dismissal that day wasn't a great unplayable delivery - it was more a miscalculated shot which underlines my point. Similarly Wasim could have dropped the catch - succumbing to pressure - but he didn't.
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I don't know if you see the match, but he was going wildly after every delivery towards the end of his innings because he knew that a 'retired hurt' was imminent as his back pain was getting worsen. for some reasons he doesn't like to have runner. so, he wanted to get as close to the target and others could finish it off. it's Mongia, Sunil Joshi, Kumble etc. who succumbed to the pressure. Saqlain really toyed with the lower order which was otherwise fairly good.
 
ajithrocks said:
I agree with most part of your statement.. it is definitely not an unplayable ball.. but it is not his mis calculation alone that led to his wicket.. he was suffering a severe back injury.. which made him to look for quick runs and finish of the match...

But history teaches only one thing that is 'Winning'... no matter how you get it.. winner takes it all.. had the remaining four people got those last few runs that knock would have been one of the best of all time.. but now it is being used to mock him..
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Agreed - but I guess the response to that is..........Laxman in the last game!


& I am not mocking, merely identifying a weakness - there is a difference. As a player at any level it is natural to look at a players weaknesses........
 
Amoeba said:
Agreed - but I guess the response to that is..........Laxman in the last game!


& I am not mocking, merely identifying a weakness - there is a difference. As a player at any level it is natural to look at a players weaknesses........
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This is where you are mistaken.. Ishant played double the number of balls that laxman played. if a number 10 batsman on a 5th day indian track can play 140 balls then any one playing on the other side will be made to look great..

With due respect to VVS knock.. it was the tail that saved the day.. and it was the tail that screwed the 99 match..
 
dinakar said:
I don't know if you see the match, but he was going wildly after every delivery towards the end of his innings because he knew that a 'retired hurt' was imminent as his back pain was getting worsen. for some reasons he doesn't like to have runner. so, he wanted to get as close to the target and others could finish it off. it's Mongia, Sunil Joshi, Kumble etc. who succumbed to the pressure. Saqlain really toyed with the lower order which was otherwise fairly good.
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Again you could argue he put more pressure on himself than he needed to and he couldn't handle it. His mental processes failed.

As for the tail - yes they should have got the runs. However as a player at any level, the most talented in your side you take it as your own personal responsibility to secure the win - not rely on others.

The view of "Well I've done my job - now its up to you" doesn't really cut the mustard.
 
Pujara is playing some fine pull shots! Finally an Indian batsman who doesn't duck!
 
With respect to the case of tendu,i feel both supporters and critics are rite.

Supporters because - he has provide us joy always,some scintillating match winning innings,under pressure,and broken all records in terms of runs which would probably never be done again.Critics because-yes he was won matches for india as laxman and dravid as done,but since we consider him almost equal to a god,He should have won more number of matches.

On the lighter side,if sachin gets out early today and pujara carries us to victory,a new person has arrived with which sachin can be mocked :p
 
ajithrocks said:
This is where you are mistaken.. Ishant played double the number of balls that laxman played. if a number 10 batsman on a 5th day indian track can play 140 balls then any one playing on the other side will be made to look great..

With due respect to VVS knock.. it was the tail that saved the day.. and it was the tail that screwed the 99 match..
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True - but the point is that Laxman was there at the end. That is all Tendulkar had to ensure on that day. If he was there at the end with the number 11 India would have won.
 
For those who are watching Pujara bat live, how is he doing in the 2nd innings? The score board says he is doing well, but numbers dont tell you the whole story..
 
Well done Pujara ..you are showing the elements we always talked about you ..touchwood we can say one replacement for fab four is showing the concentration rquired at this level.
 
great shot by SRT there. I was beginning to think he was getting bogged down.
 
Lol for those who saw the last lbw appeal scenario,will never criticize why india did not take the UDRS
 
Amoeba said:
True - but the point is that Laxman was there at the end. That is all Tendulkar had to ensure on that day. If he was there at the end with the number 11 India would have won.
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this was a very popular belief among Tendulkar critics during 90s. they wanted him to score bulk of runs, they wanted him to be there till the end, score the final run, preferably the winning one. And if he failed doing any of that - he was hailed culprit for the defeat.

Really bizarre...
 
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Amoeba said:
True - but the point is that Laxman was there at the end. That is all Tendulkar had to ensure on that day. If he was there at the end with the number 11 India would have won.
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India happend to win this one not because vvs stayed.. aus missed a simple run out.. and umpire gave a wrong decision to save the day for India..

If we say that India won because vvs stayed till the end, then we are mistaken. The quality of indian tail was known to everyone, any sane person on sachin's shoes during the 99 match would have gone for big shots to finish of match before either the back or the tail is giving up..
 
For all his class, SRT looks so ungainly when he ducks. Wish he was a puller like Sir Viv!
 
Friend786 said:
When was the last time Aussies were white washed in a test series ?
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I'm guessing Kimberly Hughes' shambles back in 82.............3-nil drubbing against Pakistan. Not sure about a 4 or 5 test series........
 
Animal said:
For all his class, SRT looks so ungainly when he ducks. Wish he was a puller like Sir Viv!
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The pull shot brought the demise to such a great career of viv.. he looked like a below average player during the last few days of his career. He let his ego dictate the terms.

While sachin has cut down on the risks which he would have taken a decade before..
 
A significant knock by pujara.. will do a world of good to his confidence and future.. hats off to dhoni for sending him ahead..
 
Animal said:
For all his class, SRT looks so ungainly when he ducks. Wish he was a puller like Sir Viv!
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I wish I was a "puller" like Imran..........but I guess that is a different story........
 
This will be the first time that India will white wash Australia in a test series !
 
Friend786 said:
This will be the first time that India will white wash Australia in a test series !
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No offence to India but 2nil can't really count. Diabolical all these 2 match series. Garbage jamodis and 20 over slogfests are killing the game.
 
Australia going to be fifth now which has never ever happened before . Amazing !
 
Expect by today someone to start "cheteswara pujara is the next blah blah" thread
 
Amoeba said:
No offence to India but 2nil can't really count. Diabolical all these 2 match series. Garbage jamodis and 20 over slogfests are killing the game.
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Very true.. but something is better than nothing.. it was a 7 match ODI series.

It is also heartening to see people are keen to follow test match cricket which faced a slow death during the 90s..
 
ajithrocks said:
Very true.. but something is better than nothing.. it was a 7 match ODI series.

It is also heartening to see people are keen to follow test match cricket which faced a slow death during the 90s..
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Well India I thought was always the one place on the sub-continent that had full houses for Tests in the 90s. I only started to see empty seats with the advent of 20:20s.
 
ajithrocks said:
While sachin has cut down on the risks which he would have taken a decade before..
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I've watched SRT since his first tour to Pakistan. He never was a great puller or hooker of the ball. That doesn't mean he never played it. He did, but his instinctive reaction has always been to sway or duck out of the way. He's been hit on the helmet many times doing this, notably by a Shoaib delivery in Pakistan.
 
Amoeba said:
No offence to India but 2nil can't really count. Diabolical all these 2 match series. Garbage jamodis and 20 over slogfests are killing the game.
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Did you used to post on the ABC forum- I see you picked up "JAMODI"
 
pinger said:
Did you used to post on the ABC forum- I see you picked up "JAMODI"
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nah - but pretty common phrase amongst English forummers as well - maybe we picked it up from the Aussies!
 
Amoeba said:
Well India I thought was always the one place on the sub-continent that had full houses for Tests in the 90s. I only started to see empty seats with the advent of 20:20s.
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No no.. still matches in bangalore, chennai, kolkatta attract huge crowds even during week days..

but Mohali which is far away from the main city will hardly get the desired attendance.. like australia, test matches should be conducted in the right venues rather than based on quota..
 
Would it be asking for too much for Pujara to get to 100 and take India to win...

The lad deserves it after all the time he had to wait to get into the squad...
 
Amoeba said:
nah - but pretty common phrase amongst English forummers as well - maybe we picked it up from the Aussies!
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No Worries, at one stage the ABC had a decent cricket forum going. But for some unknown reason closed it down. The members there had the typical aussie traits of shortening and abbreviating things, and using Australian rhyming slang (dead horse = sauce).

Worth a look, this is the only place I could find the forum dictionary/glossary.

http://www.flamingbails.com/the-fla...1/glossary-updated-14th-august-2010-t3179.htm
 
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