Junaid Khan vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

[MENTION=138764]AmirFutureWasim[/MENTION]

Obviously I gave edge to Junaid.

In my above post.

Overall he has been more consistent compared to Bhuvi and is a more complete bowler who can be used at any stage.

But Bhuvi has learnt how to bowl in death and doesn't get carted around in any stage.

well yea that's what I was saying. So far we only have one or two "big" tournaments where JK wasn't 100% fit and Kumar's had his issues as well which is why I said we should give the edge to JK. You can't just look at a couple big tournaments. There were some people comparing McCullum to Amla simply because he was a beast in the semis :)) I'm more of a fan of looking at the overall picture. But yea I get what you're saying larger sample sizes would be better.
 
if we only looked at big games Wahab Riaz would be an ATG legend for balling his heart out in the 2011 semis and in 2015.
 
well yea that's what I was saying. So far we only have one or two "big" tournaments where JK wasn't 100% fit and Kumar's had his issues as well which is why I said we should give the edge to JK. You can't just look at a couple big tournaments. There were some people comparing McCullum to Amla simply because he was a beast in the semis :)) I'm more of a fan of looking at the overall picture. But yea I get what you're saying larger sample sizes would be better.

if we only looked at big games Wahab Riaz would be an ATG legend for balling his heart out in the 2011 semis and in 2015.

Not really.

That would make Shami and Umesh ATG because of their performance in WC 2015 and no Indian calls that.

Plus Wahab doesn't have as good stats as Shami or Umesh in WC 2015 anyway.

No one says tournaments are everything but when you go missing completely in a tournament in your best year and then go missing completely in another tournament the next year (admittedly T20)....it leads to raised eyebrows.
 
well yea that's what I was saying. So far we only have one or two "big" tournaments where JK wasn't 100% fit and Kumar's had his issues as well which is why I said we should give the edge to JK. You can't just look at a couple big tournaments. There were some people comparing McCullum to Amla simply because he was a beast in the semis :)) I'm more of a fan of looking at the overall picture. But yea I get what you're saying larger sample sizes would be better.

Agree with this post except for the "big" tournament dig. ;-)

Dunno why this post got quoted last time.
 
BK is a good bowler in my opinion. One of my favourites with the new ball and I couldn't care less about his pace and where Dhoni stands.
 
Sorry but that's just a lol worthy post.

he is though? Kapil has some poor records but Indians rate him for some reason. Junaid has better bowling stats and will finish with considerably better bowling stats. Also consider the era that Kapil bowled in compared to Junaid and you can easily ascertain that Junaid will finish a way better bowler than Kapil who started the trundler culture in India.
 
Not really.

That would make Shami and Umesh ATG because of their performance in WC 2015 and no Indian calls that.

Plus Wahab doesn't have as good stats as Shami or Umesh in WC 2015 anyway.

No one says tournaments are everything but when you go missing completely in a tournament in your best year and then go missing completely in another tournament the next year (admittedly T20)....it leads to raised eyebrows.

meh I disagree about your WC 2015 evaluation. I watched every game and Riaz took much more important wickets than Umesh yadav and was on part with Shami. Plus India had one more match as well. Against Australia it was Wahab who was better. Even if you want to give the edge one way or the other it's really close a lot of people act like they were miles and miles wasim-esque better. Plus 2011 was pretty big too for Riaz. Injuries were a huge concern for the big tournaments but yea I agree with you, I just find he was a bit unlucky which is why I'm trying to look at the whole picture.

Agree with this post except for the "big" tournament dig. ;-)

Dunno why this post got quoted last time.

tbh I have no clue why I quoted that. No real reason I just sort of did.
 
meh I disagree about your WC 2015 evaluation. I watched every game and Riaz took much more important wickets than Umesh yadav and was on part with Shami. Plus India had one more match as well. Against Australia it was Wahab who was better. Even if you want to give the edge one way or the other it's really close a lot of people act like they were miles and miles wasim-esque better. Plus 2011 was pretty big too for Riaz. Injuries were a huge concern for the big tournaments but yea I agree with you, I just find he was a bit unlucky which is why I'm trying to look at the whole picture.



tbh I have no clue why I quoted that. No real reason I just sort of did.

I didn't say Wahab was rubbish.

I was responding to your last post about WC performances. I have said it in the past that Wahab and Shami are kinda too close to each other as far as WC performance is concerned (which stats may not show).

I was just saying we need to look at the overall picture which we both agree.

Ashwin for example has ATG stats in LOI knockouts and LOI tournaments but overall he doesn't have great stats which impacts the way people perceive him.

Everything matters in different proportions (tournaments having more value of course).
 
Bhuvi has really dropped last 6 months. In Tests Junaid was always superior Bhuvis lack of pace made him useless on Indian tracks. In ODIS Bhuvi hasnt been helped by bowling on Indian highways. But he has kept his economy good. But ultimately his lack.of pace and inability to take wickets go against him. In todays era teams need wicket takers more than ever because if a team can keep wickets in hand they can go crazy in last 15-20 overs.
 
India never had and never will have a good pacer like junaid.
Junaid > Zak Kapil Paaji prasad bhuvi etc
 
India never had and never will have a good pacer like junaid.
Junaid > Zak Kapil Paaji prasad bhuvi etc

Are you seriously saying that a bowler who has taken 65 wickets (Junaid) is better than a bowler who has taken 400 test wickets, or one who has 300 wickets and has won his team a world cup?

If Junaid can maintain the same average after 300 wickets, then your claim would be valid, but now its seriously delusional!
 
Are you seriously saying that a bowler who has taken 65 wickets (Junaid) is better than a bowler who has taken 400 test wickets, or one who has 300 wickets and has won his team a world cup?

If Junaid can maintain the same average after 300 wickets, then your claim would be valid, but now its seriously delusional!

Kapil was a trundler and in an era dominated by bowlers (with so many bowlers averaging ~20), he maintained an average of ~30 which would even poor for todays standards, probably equivalent to a bowling average of 40.

Hack with a bat compared to genuine all-rounders like Imran Khan who averaged more and could play in all gears.
 
Now that Junaid is fit, he'll end this debate once and for all in the next few months. The best current pacer from the subcon while Kumar is sadly a has-been.

Things can change if Kumar further develops his bowling but until that happens, this comparison will always be one-sided.
 
India never had and never will have a good pacer like junaid.
Junaid > Zak Kapil Paaji prasad bhuvi etc

Zaheer Khan and Paaji were good bowlers, Junaid may be an equal in terms of skill but he hasn't played nearly enough games to warrant being called better, at this stage.
 
This thread once used to be the most active thread on PP back in 2013/14 but both are gone into a shadows i guess we need to start comparing them with Junior Akmal to give their career a new hope just like the comparison with Junior did wonders to Rohit and and many others here :))
 
Just saw my only post in this thread where I was defending Junaid :))

Junaid has embarrassed a lot of posters here :asif
 
Shocked at the demise of Junaid. I won't say he has been bowling too poorly, he has been playing on pitches that offer absolutely nothing to the pace bowlers
 
I never saw Junaid khan bowl @ 107-110k like bhuvneshwar did in Australia.
That was such a huge embarrassment for any team. Your premier fast bowler bowling at 106k to 110 k.... :)))
 
I never saw Junaid khan bowl @ 107-110k like bhuvneshwar did in Australia.
That was such a huge embarrassment for any team. Your premier fast bowler bowling at 106k to 110 k.... :)))

:91: :91:

Watching Binny bowl was just majestic. Poetry in motion :91:

Junaid for Pakistani standards has regressed badly. He is young and still has time but the writing is on the wall. If he still can't learn to swing the ball after all this coaching and game time then he will never learn.
 
This thread was once the msot active thread on PP back in 2013 but now it looks like history thanks to both :yk
 
The way Bhuvi is swinging ball miles both ways on those flat Indian road pitches , Jundaid Khan cannot bowl like this even in his dreams. Bhuvi will soon find a place in Indian test team but it seems like Kohli will be a big hurdle for him and will not choose him in playing 11.
 
The way Bhuvi is swinging ball miles both ways on those flat Indian road pitches , Jundaid Khan cannot bowl like this even in his dreams. Bhuvi will soon find a place in Indian test team but it seems like Kohli will be a big hurdle for him and will not choose him in playing 11.

Pitch has nothing to do with swing( conventional swing)

If conditions r perfect the ball will swing regardless of the pitch type, even on flat roads :akhtar
 
Kumar is miles ahead should be in the Indian test team to play west Indies. Junaid needs to improve big time otherwise Kumar will leave him for dust
 
People rating Kumar on the basis of IPL :)))


Just so you know, DJ Bravo was the best bowler of the IPL twice in the last three years. Performances in these leagues should be taken with a bucket of salt.
 
People rating Kumar on the basis of IPL :)))


Just so you know, DJ Bravo was the best bowler of the IPL twice in the last three years. Performances in these leagues should be taken with a bucket of salt.

Come on he's a decent bowler. Remember when they played England in 2014 he did well.
 
Bhuvneshwar seems to be getting back into his groove, can be a decent bowler. Gets swing and [can] bowl at the death.

Haven't seen much of Junaid recently.. hope he's working on building up his pace. Since he doesn't really swing the ball much, he needs to rely more on pace and accuracy.

Both aren't a part of their respective national teams atm... :afaq
 
Almost forgot that both these bowlers exist. Good to see Bhuvi doing well again.

How is Juni doing these days? :junaid
 
Bhuvi performed in last IPL too if I am not wrong. Looked amazing.

But didn't transfer the form to international cricket.

So fingers crossed that he does well in international cricket too.

Whatever happens Bilal ji will never ever ever ever accept Bhuvi is ahead of Juni. :))
 
Bhuvneshwar Kumar, the next James Anderson.

Junaid Khan, the next Umar Gul.
 
Bhuvi performed in last IPL too if I am not wrong. Looked amazing.

But didn't transfer the form to international cricket.

So fingers crossed that he does well in international cricket too.

Whatever happens Bilal ji will never ever ever ever accept Bhuvi is ahead of Juni. :))

Well , both are out if internationals and unfortunately junaid doesnt play ipl where he can be compared.
 
Bhuvneshwar Kumar, the next James Anderson.

Junaid Khan, the next Umar Gul.

Peak Gul was a very good ODI bowler and one of if not the greatest T20 pacer in history. He is obviously rubbish now. You are comparing him with mediocre Junaid?
 
“If I wanted to play Test cricket in India, I had to gain pace”

They come in with a reputation of bowling fast. In no time most of these bowlers end up being medium pacers. Fast bowlers — medium fast to be precise — losing pace is as consistent a phenomenon in Indian cricket as doctored wickets for Test matches.

Bhunveshwar Kumar has proven to be an exception to the rule. The swing bowler over the last year or so has managed to gain pace. In a chat with The Hindu, the Sunrisers Hyderabad bowler spells out the reasons, and the process, behind adding a few extra miles to his bowling speed.

Excerpts

How did you manage to gain pace?

When I came into the international circuit, pace wasn’t my strength. But when you spend some time at a particular level, you realise where you need to improve in order to succeed at that level and go even higher. That is where I decided to work on my pace.

It is one department which is usually hard to improve on at this level but I would sincerely like to thank the regime set for me by Indian team’s new trainer, Basu Shankar. He set a programme for me, power training, which helped me achieve my goal without losing the key skill.



What is power training?

I have been working on it for six months now. It’s nothing but a set of training method that has helped me a lot. And it’s not a short-term training programme as such, it’s become my usual training regime now.



Was there a particular moment that sparked off your decision to start working on speed?

If I have to put it down to one moment, I would say it was because of Test cricket in India. When the wickets are assisting spinners, it is the fast bowlers who get preferred in the team instead of medium pacers. That was the main reason behind my decision to up the pace. I realised if I wanted to play Test cricket in India, I had to gain pace but not at the cost of swing. I was always clear I wanted to be known as a swing bowler but someone who could bowl decent pace. I worked with the same objective.



How difficult has it been to strike the balance of attaining pace but not losing swing?

If you see, I have managed to start bowling in the early or mid-130s from mid-120s, with an odd ball touching 140 (kmph). If I tried to bowl at 140 all the time, I knew I would lose swing because bowling fast genuinely becomes a different ball game. I would have had to change my action, and if I changed my action, I would have had to compromise on the swing. I wasn’t ready for that, so I targeted touching 135 and retaining swing. It’s coming off well.



Ever since the last IPL, you haven’t been getting opportunities in India’s eleven across formats. How challenging or frustrating has it been to be in the squad but not in the team?

I have looked at it from the positive side. Since I have not been a regular in the eleven, I have been focussing a lot of skill enhancement. When you are in the eleven, you are thinking more about how to trap a batsman. Since I haven’t been a regular in the side of late, it has given me an opportunity to turn myself into a more confident bowler and a more positive cricketer. I keep telling myself to keep working hard and be ready for the next opportunity.



Your death bowling came to the fore during the last IPL. Did you work specifically on it ahead of IPL 2015?

It wasn’t just the last IPL but I have been working on this aspect for the last two-three years. That was another side that I wasn’t so good at when I made my debut in international cricket, so I have been working towards improving my death bowling for two-three years now. Glad that it came off well in the last IPL. The IPL presents you with at least 14 opportunities to improve on a particular aspect of your game, and 14 is a huge number to make something work.



So what’s the target this season?

Team target is obviously to win the maiden title. I have also set an individual goal, which is to win the Purple Cap. If I can achieve that, it would help the team immensely and make me confident as well. At times, you bowl exceedingly well but are not rewarded with when it comes to the wickets column. But besides bowling economically, taking wickets is the key if I have to contribute handsomely to the team’s cause.



Ever since its debut in 2013, Sunrisers Hyderabad has continually carried the tag of an underdog. Does it bother you?

I haven’t really thought about it and I honestly don’t care about it. It doesn’t really matter how we are tagged, what matters is how we perform in the tournament. Whether you are favourites or underdogs, the training regime, the will to succeed and the hunger to perform at the best of your abilities remains the same. Eventually it’s the performance that matters and I hope we can continue to deliver the same way for the rest of the season.


http://www.thehindu.com/sport/crick...ace-says-bhuvneshwar-kumar/article8537671.ece
 
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Amazing...

A couple of years back, I posted here in PP that I would be very disappointed if Bhuvi (who has good brains) fades away.

Unfortunately he did fade away and I thought maybe its just not meant to be and felt bad.

But looks like the dude is slowly coming back.

A good pacer with brains is worth its weight in gold.

Hopefully Bhuvi becomes a regular in our ODI side and performs well.

Him, Bumrah and Shami (full form) will form a great combo.
 
Peak Gul was a very good ODI bowler and one of if not the greatest T20 pacer in history. He is obviously rubbish now. You are comparing him with mediocre Junaid?

Junaid had a decent peak too but not comparable to Gul's peak. Poor man's Gul perhaps.
 
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Bhuvneshwar Kumar, the next James Anderson.

Junaid Khan, the next Umar Gul.
I think comparing junaid khan with umar gul is a big compliment .... Gul was excellent in our 2009 world cup win .... I always remember him as a good servant of pak cricket

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
I think comparing junaid khan with umar gul is a big compliment .... Gul was excellent in our 2009 world cup win .... I always remember him as a good servant of pak cricket

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

His skill-set is similar to Gul's. Both are awful with the new ball and cannot swing the ball an inch but can seam and reverse the ball.

Good at the death with their yorkers.

However, Gul delivered on the big occasion while Junaid has always failed in ICC tournaments, and he was one of the best Limited Overs bowler around at Junaid's age.

Junaid declined very early, and his only legacy is an ODI in India, an over in SA and a couple of spells vs SL.
 
His skill-set is similar to Gul's. Both are awful with the new ball and cannot swing the ball an inch but can seam and reverse the ball.

Good at the death with their yorkers.

However, Gul delivered on the big occasion while Junaid has always failed in ICC tournaments, and he was one of the best Limited Overs bowler around at Junaid's age.

Junaid declined very early, and his only legacy is an ODI in India, an over in SA and a couple of spells vs SL.
Yes bcoz of decline of both players Pakistan is suffering in death overs .... no player in current team can bowl pin point yorkers

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
Bhuvneshwar Kumar, the next James Anderson.

Junaid Khan, the next Umar Gul.

You're overrating Bhuvi. That's a tall claim. Jimmy is God with the duke ball under overhead conditions. BK was very good in England too but it's difficult to emulate Jimmy's effectiveness in England.
 
Yes India have found a very good one. I rememeber only a few months ago how he used to dish up length at the death in mid 120s

Yeah. I felt very sad when he got that ankle injury because he is one of my favourite players in the Indian team (along with Rahane, both talented, down to earth and genuinely likeable guys). I felt his career was over and he was just another Indian trundler who came onto the scene for a few matches. But to his credit, he has improved his pace and has retained his potent weapon (new ball swing) as well. And he has improved his death bowling in leaps and bounds as well in the last one year or so. I hope he can have a good test tour of the windies.
.
 
Amazing...

A couple of years back, I posted here in PP that I would be very disappointed if Bhuvi (who has good brains) fades away.

Unfortunately he did fade away and I thought maybe its just not meant to be and felt bad.

But looks like the dude is slowly coming back.

A good pacer with brains is worth its weight in gold.

Hopefully Bhuvi becomes a regular in our ODI side and performs well.

Him, Bumrah and Shami (full form) will form a great combo.

I told you months back bro.

Have always bet on the right horses.

But India keeps choosing lulloo panju bowlers over him.

Guy's talent was obvious since his debut in late 2012, and then his good run from 2013-2014.
 
Bhuvi is very good bowler compared to other current Indian bowlers. I think Kohli have issues with Bhuvi and Pujara and they will always find it difficult to find a place in playing 11 in Tests which is sad. Kohli will always prefer his pals Ishant Sharma, Rohit, Stuart Binny, KL Rahul, Hacker dhawan and brainless phast bowler Umesh Yadav. Glad that other brainless phast bowler Varun Aron is not selected for the Tests otherwise we would have seen this idiot limping and playing all Test matches.
 
Bk is much better than junaid now he is bowling with good pace bowling yorkers perfectly can swing the ball.Good to see him performing
 
Junaid Khan had a stellar 2013 but fell off rather quickly due to an injury. He was a complete package in terms of a fast bowler as he had swing, reverse swing, pinpoint death bowling etc. It came to a point where Misbah said that Junaid was just as useful as Ajmal was. I feel that it would be a huge mistake to get rid of Junaid completely and to focus on trying to get the best bowling attack by brining him back to his best again.
 
You're overrating Bhuvi. That's a tall claim. Jimmy is God with the duke ball under overhead conditions. BK was very good in England too but it's difficult to emulate Jimmy's effectiveness in England.

Jimmy is a great, but Bhuvi has the same incredible gift of swing.

Young Jimmy was all over the place, swung the ball miles but had little control. However, the ingredients were there.

He truly came into his own in 2008-2009 when he learned to reverse the ball and improved his control.

With minor adjustments, Bhuvi can become a world class bowler. The potential is there.
 
Junaid Khan had a stellar 2013 but fell off rather quickly due to an injury. He was a complete package in terms of a fast bowler as he had swing, reverse swing, pinpoint death bowling etc. It came to a point where Misbah said that Junaid was just as useful as Ajmal was. I feel that it would be a huge mistake to get rid of Junaid completely and to focus on trying to get the best bowling attack by brining him back to his best again.

Will Junaid be in the starting XI for the England tour?

Junaid's fitness is damaging his career.
 
Will Junaid be in the starting XI for the England tour?

Junaid's fitness is damaging his career.

He is behind Amir, Wahab, Rahat and Imran in the pecking order, so it's highly unlikely that he will be playing.

It has pretty much damaged his career. He was overrated even in his peak, but he wasn't a waste of space like he is now.

Junaid's only hope of making a comeback is to deliver in F/C, PSL, Pakistan Cup etc., because he's not getting a chance in international cricket anytime soon.
 
Junaid Khan had a stellar 2013 but fell off rather quickly due to an injury. He was a complete package in terms of a fast bowler as he had swing, reverse swing, pinpoint death bowling etc. It came to a point where Misbah said that Junaid was just as useful as Ajmal was. I feel that it would be a huge mistake to get rid of Junaid completely and to focus on trying to get the best bowling attack by brining him back to his best again.

Junaid never had new ball swing, and that proved to be his downfall. Even in that famed spell in India, he was seaming the ball off the deck, not swinging in the air.

His stats in 2013 were great, but he got a lot of wickets of poor deliveries. He had a knack of taking wickets regardless of how he bowled. Ultimately mediocrity catches up with you and your luck runs out.

Yes he was a good exponent of reverse-swing, but then his knees gave up on him.

I would say that 2013 Junaid wasn't as good as his stats suggest. You would expect a 21-22 averaging bowler to be taking 5-fers and 6-fers and swinging the ball both ways, but he was mostly a 2-3 wickets bowler.
 
He is behind Amir, Wahab, Rahat and Imran in the pecking order, so it's highly unlikely that he will be playing.

It has pretty much damaged his career. He was overrated even in his peak, but he wasn't a waste of space like he is now.

Junaid's only hope of making a comeback is to deliver in F/C, PSL, Pakistan Cup etc., because he's not getting a chance in international cricket anytime soon.

To be honest he needs to get back on track and become fit as soon as possible. He's a specialist bowler and is a much better choice than Bhatti and Anwar whereas an in-form Junaid along with Aamir and Irfan in ODI's is devastating if you think about it. I wouldn't say he was overrated in 2013 but he was overrated somewhat due to his success mainly against SL but that's the only team he's played against the most. If fitness is not allowing him back then we might as well get Sohail Khan back in ODI's since he's a proper ODI bowler.
 
I wudnt take the IPL performances too seriously , he does look like hes in good rhythm , but can he translate this into performances at international level we will find out soon . Hes been the best bowler in this edition of IPL though
 
Peak Gul was a very good ODI bowler and one of if not the greatest T20 pacer in history. He is obviously rubbish now. You are comparing him with mediocre Junaid?

Gul at one point was better than Malinga at his peak , unfortunately it was a very short phase . A confidence bowler , may be should have been handled better when he wasnt doing well
 
Bhuvi is very good bowler compared to other current Indian bowlers. I think Kohli have issues with Bhuvi and Pujara and they will always find it difficult to find a place in playing 11 in Tests which is sad. Kohli will always prefer his pals Ishant Sharma, Rohit, Stuart Binny, KL Rahul, Hacker dhawan and brainless phast bowler Umesh Yadav. Glad that other brainless phast bowler Varun Aron is not selected for the Tests otherwise we would have seen this idiot limping and playing all Test matches.

Is this true?
 
Junaid hasnt developed skills in the few years I have seen him , he started as a good bowler and probably has regressed a bit .

In T20Is, main thing is death bowling for fast bowlers, and Junaid Khan is a proven death specialist, can bowl yorkers at will, so I think he can be better than Amir in this format.
 
Junaid hasnt developed skills in the few years I have seen him , he started as a good bowler and probably has regressed a bit .

I don't have much expectations from Junaid in ODIs and Tests, but in T20Is, I do believe he still has a lot to offer, looking at his past record of death bowling, if only he is utilised well by our management.
 
Is this true?

No its not , the fans targeted Dhoni for apparently favouring some players & they have started doing the same for Virat . Every captain will have his favourites , some players they actually have lot of belief in , there is nothing wrong in that .
Rahul is arguably the best batting talent in India right now .
We dont have anyone better than Ishant for tests .
Virat probably thinks we need a allrounder in the side , which he wants Binny to fill .
Opener who can give us quick starts in Dhawan .
Rohit ?



you may disagree with him , but its not difficult to see there is a reasoning beind it . I dont even think all these guys are great pals of Virat .
 
No its not , the fans targeted Dhoni for apparently favouring some players & they have started doing the same for Virat . Every captain will have his favourites , some players they actually have lot of belief in , there is nothing wrong in that .
Rahul is arguably the best batting talent in India right now .
We dont have anyone better than Ishant for tests .
Virat probably thinks we need a allrounder in the side , which he wants Binny to fill .
Opener who can give us quick starts in Dhawan .
Rohit ?



you may disagree with him , but its not difficult to see there is a reasoning beind it . I dont even think all these guys are great pals of Virat .

I rate Nitish Rana higher.
 
BK is in the mold of Mark Elham. Someone who isn't tall enough and bowls around 125 KPH. Would always remain as an average bowler at best in LOI and garbage in tests.
 
BK is in the mold of Mark Elham. Someone who isn't tall enough and bowls around 125 KPH. Would always remain as an average bowler at best in LOI and garbage in tests.

Bhuvneshwar doesn't bowl 125 km/h anymore.
 
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