New Zealand v England | 3rd Test | Auckland | March 22-26, 2013

[soso_killer]

Fell asleep around 3 AM and i wake up to this? Wow even the Wall (Finn) is gone?

This could be embarrassing for England. Without gloating but this will put into perspective South Africas 7 year undefeated streak away from home.

 

[Marshland]

This could be embarrassing for England. Without gloating but this will put into perspective South Africas 7 year undefeated streak away from home.

South Africa's away record is truly exemplary, consecutive wins against Australia and England and consecutive draws against India. And unlike England, they've taken the lesser opposition seriously as well, churning out wins in the West Indies and out here and in Pakistan. Pity Sri Lanka don't take test cricket seriously at all, that's their sole blot on their CV and the Saffas don't get an opportunity to play there.

 

[soso_killer]

Not even SA has won in both Australia and India of late.

hah? Am i hearing you correctly? Didn't SA just win in Australia recently (November/December)?
The last time we toured India was in 2010 at their peak and we drew 1-1 thrashing them by an innings in their backyard in one of those games, in fact we have won by an innings twice there. Something England could not do against an ailing team.

 

[soso_killer]

South Africa's away record is truly exemplary, consecutive wins against Australia and England and consecutive draws against India. And unlike England, they've taken the lesser opposition seriously as well, churning out wins in the West Indies and out here and in Pakistan. Pity Sri Lanka don't take test cricket seriously at all, that's their sole blot on their CV and the Saffas don't get an opportunity to play there.

Yeah we were supposed to tour there this year, instead the test tour will be played before/after the 2015 world cup. Ironicaly we will still tour there this year but only play LOI, which i dont understand, if SA is already there why not play the bloody test or cancell the whole tour

 

[Marshland]

Yeah we were supposed to tour there this year, instead the test tour will be played before/after the 2015 world cup. Ironicaly we will still tour there this year but only play LOI, which i dont understand, if SA is already there why not play the bloody test or cancell the whole tour

It's the SLC, they don't care about test cricket.

 

[James]

hah? Am i hearing you correctly? Didn't SA just win in Australia recently (November/December)?
The last time we toured India was in 2010 at their peak and we drew 1-1 thrashing them by an innings in their backyard in one of those games, in fact we have won by an innings twice there. Something England could not do against an ailing team.

Learn to read. I said no other team has done BOTH of late, except England. This is a fact.

 

[Marshland]

Learn to read. I said no other team has done BOTH of late, except England. This is a fact.

Guess which team has lost to both New Zealand and the West Indies? And a whitewash against Pakistan?

Face the facts, England don't seem to be taking teams ranked below #4 seriously at all.

 

[James]

Expecting Australia to even draw in India is pushing it. South Africa haven't toured India recently and they've drawn their last few series in India I believe.

You're right, but your statement was that England barely merit number 3, which is an untenable statement given that England beat Australia and India both home and away.

 

[James]

Guess which team has lost to both New Zealand and the West Indies? And a whitewash against Pakistan?

Face the facts, England don't seem to be taking teams ranked below #4 seriously at all.

Sure, I think 3 is fair for us at the moment.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

8 of 89 balls wow. the new javed omar belim

 

[style_guru]

Wow just Wow.

Saw Fulton & McCullum absolutely thrash the English attack to pieces earlier today. NZ deserves to win this match, as well as the series.

Personally I am so happy to see the progress NZ have made in last few months. Now I only wish that they somehow find a way to perform like this consistently enough. May be it's time Fleming accepts the coaching job & takes NZ up the ranks.

As for England, they've looked completely lost. May be the Ashes have started to play too much on their minds. They are a better team then what we've seen on this tour. But again, may be the NZ have raised their game by several notches.

P.S:- It was funny to hear the Commies tear into English media which had termed Fulton as a walking wicket earlier, just to find the same guy hitting back to back 100's. At one point when Fulton was hammering away, the commies were saying that it seems like a case where the referee needs to soon stop the fight, as England seems to have been knocked down several times

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

omg well done kiwis

 

[Aman]

Fell asleep around 3 AM and i wake up to this? Wow even the Wall (Finn) is gone?

This could be embarrassing for England. Without gloating but this will put into perspective South Africas 7 year undefeated streak away from home.

You guys will dominate for world cricket for a few years while the others try to catch up, your bench strength is a worry though.

 

[Marshland]

You're right, but your statement was that England barely merit number 3, which is an untenable statement given that England beat Australia and India both home and away.

Outside of both Australia and India (who were the #4 ranked teams at the time of your tours), it's been rather bleak.

 

[James]

Wow just Wow.

Saw Fulton & McCullum absolutely thrash the English attack to pieces earlier today. NZ deserves to win this match, as well as the series.

Personally I am so happy to see the progress NZ have made in last few months. Now I only wish that they somehow find a way to perform like this consistently enough. May be it's time Fleming accepts the coaching job & takes NZ up the ranks.

As for England, they've looked completely lost. May be the Ashes have started to play too much on their minds. They are a better team then what we've seen on this tour. But again, may be the NZ have raised their game by several notches.

P.S:- It was funny to hear the Commies tear into English media which had termed Fulton as a walking wicket earlier, just to find the same guy hitting back to back 100's. At one point when Fulton was hammering away, the commies were saying that it seems like a case where the referee needs to soon stop the fight, as England seems to have been knocked down several times

Good post, agree with it. Credit to NZ and also much to ponder for us.

 

[Marshland]

P.S:- It was funny to hear the Commies tear into English media which had termed Fulton as a walking wicket earlier, just to find the same guy hitting back to back 100's. At one point when Fulton was hammering away, the commies were saying that it seems like a case where the referee needs to soon stop the fight, as England seems to have been knocked down several times

I'm not the greatest fan of Fulton, but I'll side with him against the English media - the sole reason why all neutrals hate the English cricket team.

 

[James]

Outside of both Australia and India (who were the #4 ranked teams at the time of your tours), it's been rather bleak.

Then on that basis I don't see which three teams you rank above us. Sri Lanka are infamously bad away from home; Australia just got whitewashed in India and we beat both of these teams home and away; Pakistan got a great win against us in UAE but they also lost three Tests a piece in SA, Australia and England. So I think that's point proven: England can't logically be less than number 3.

 

[NZcricketfan]

Imagine if Chris Cairns had been born English instead of this backwater.

 

[SL_Fan]

Hope NZ can pull this off. They deserve it after playing quality cricket throughout most of the series.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Poor stuff from england once again, just like previous tours to W.I and UAE england have turned up and just not show are real preparation and have show complacency and its come back to slap them in the face.

Massive task now for england to save this game and the series.

 

[soso_killer]

Learn to read. I said no other team has done BOTH of late, except England. This is a fact.

beating ageing teams does not mean anything your team is still pathetic away from home. Why make a comparison when SA has not played India in India in the same time period? Are you trying to make yourself feel good about your team? Because when you say SA has not won in "BOTH" countries you imply that your away record is better/superior than SA's which is clearly not the case.

 

[Marshland]

Then on that basis I don't see which three teams you rank above us. Sri Lanka are infamously bad away from home; Australia just got whitewashed in India and we beat both of these teams home and away; Pakistan got a great win against us in UAE but they also lost three Tests a piece in SA, Australia and England. So I think that's point proven: England can't logically be less than number 3.

Perhaps if the BCs can put up a similar fight in England during your summer, they will be pushed down to 4 or below regardless!

 

[Itachi]

Testing.

 

[James]

beating ageing teams does not mean anything your team is still pathetic away from home. Why make a comparison when SA has not played India in India in the same time period? Are you trying to make yourself feel good about your team? Because when you say SA has not won in "BOTH" countries you imply that your away record is better/superior than SA's which is clearly not the case.

No you're reading too much into it. We were debating the (limp) suggestion that England barely merit the number 3 rank.

 

[soso_killer]

You guys will dominate for world cricket for a few years while the others try to catch up, your bench strength is a worry though.

to be honest i dont see us dominating beyond 2015/2016. IMO we have been the best in the world since 2008 poor selection and our home record let us down with too many draws. That would have been 8 years of dominance. Unless we could produce an AB or Steyn/Donald esque player in the next 2/3 years, then who knows.

 

[James]

Perhaps if the BCs can put up a similar fight in England during your summer, they will be pushed down to 4 or below regardless!

Perhaps in the future, but I think this comment proves that your original suggestion of us barely meriting #3 has failed, so we can now move onto the next discussion.

 

[Marshland]

Perhaps in the future, but I think this comment proves that your original suggestion of us barely meriting #3 has failed, so we can now move onto the next discussion.

You are ranked 3, and that's hard fact. I was just reflecting my opinion - there's nothing for me to fail about there.

 

[style_guru]

Although this thread is not about who's the #1 or 2 or 3, but since people are raising their opinions on the issue, here are my 5 cents worth:-

Most teams these days (barring SA) are performing in patches. They're good at times, and poor again.

England has been no exception. It won in OZ, India. Won most matches at home, until SA came. But they've also lost to W.I, got slaughtered by Pakistan in UAE, and the latest debacle on offer is the current series in NZ.

India may be #2 officially after this series, but if you ask me, I do not rate them above England tbh. They've lost to England & OZ away, then again to England at home. They've won against NZ & then whitewashed OZ. Good stuff but still cannot beat England's record for me, which won in India, which is like India winning in England, very very difficult. They've narrowed the gap no doubt, but there's still some sunshine in between for me.

Pakistan is a force to reckon with in the UAE, but outside that, I am worried for them. They've won handsomely in the UAE, but lost to SL in SL & again were demolished by SA in SA. So they need to get a lot of things in order to climb into the top 3.

OZ have been rubbish.

NZ have shown a lot of improvement, but still not good enough to be in the top bracket.

WI are also like NZ. Great at times, and then back to being mediocre.

BD, the less we speak, the better.

So this practically leaves England as the #2 team for me. Or let's say #3 which shall please a lot of my Indian friends.

 

[soso_killer]

No you're reading too much into it. We were debating the (limp) suggestion that England barely merit the number 3 rank.

ok, then i agree with you its ridiculous to argue that England dont deserve the no. 3 ranking. They are still no.2 IMO, people will come up witha crazy phrases "SA is number 1 then daylight then England at number 2" the last time i checked "daylight" was not a cricket team.

What has really hurt you guys over the last year or so is getting carried away and looking too far ahead and treating teams with no respect whatsoever+ the media hype. Is it a coincidence that you lost 3-0 in the U.A.E when your media said you would/should win "easily"? Is it a coincidence that you lost 2-0 to South Africa when your media said "...but the big tour for England will be touring India late in the year", guess what you went to India and won, why? Coz you were mentaly prepared. However you neglected urgent matters i.e. beating the team that is/was currently in front of you.
Same applies here your media were making statement about the Ashes etc. with absolute disdain for NZ, guess what? You starring down the barrel.
When you have treated teams with respect you have fared much better like when you last toured SA your media expected you to lose 3-1, now tell what was the score line of that series?
I'm not saying you would have won in the U.A.E or against SA but i'm sure you will agree with me that your team could and should have performed better than they did.
English players needs to switch off from the media hype and concentrate at the task at hand and just play cricket and forget about the other nonsense. I'm sure they will win the Ashes home and away coz it is already being built up as the "big spectacle" and they will be mentaly prepared.

 

[MILLIONAIRE]

Even though I support England, I realy hope Newzealand wins this. Its great for them and for world cricket in general. We need stronger teams which can compete with each other. Im sick of seeing one sided matches.

Hats of to Peter Fulton, what a innings last night. He smashed England bowlers round the park like if they were club bowlers, fair enough the pitch is good, but its the same pitch, Englands best batsmen like Cook, Trott, Bell have struggled.

Top stuff. Go the Kiwis!!!!

 

[soso_killer]

ABell de Villiers is key here, NZ should not allow him to make 30 from 230 balls. He is already on 8 from 86

 

[James]

You are ranked 3, and that's hard fact. I was just reflecting my opinion - there's nothing for me to fail about there.

Very nice for you to have your opinion and all, I was just helping the reader understand that it was tripe.

 

[ahmed778]

Very nice for you to have your opinion and all, I was just helping the reader understand that it was tripe.

It won't be tripe when you lose back back Ashes this year.

 

[ali bubba]

It won't be tripe when you lose back back Ashes this year.

We won't lose at home. Away from home maybe.

Our Batsmen need to sort their heads out but Swann and Pieterson add about 30% to this team. Especially when Pieterson's motivated, which he always is in an ashes series.

 

[ali bubba]

Poor stuff from england once again, just like previous tours to W.I and UAE england have turned up and just not show are real preparation and have show complacency and its come back to slap them in the face.

Massive task now for england to save this game and the series.

I don't think it's complacency. They''ve not been playing good cricket for over a year. I know the India series, but really it was a terrible Indian team.

Rubbish against Pakistan, mediocre against a weak Sri Lanka team, mediocre against a poor windies team at home, outclassed by the saffas and now in New Zealand being outplayed.

So only playing well in 1 out of our last 6 series. Yet I still think England are the 2nd best test team, which shows how bad the rest have been.

 

[ahmed778]

We won't lose at home. Away from home maybe.

Our Batsmen need to sort their heads out but Swann and Pieterson add about 30% to this team. Especially when Pieterson's motivated, which he always is in an ashes series.

I can't see Swann making a huge impact he was pretty ordinary in the Last Ashes.

 

[ali bubba]

I can't see Swann making a huge impact he was pretty ordinary in the Last Ashes.

He won't rip thorugh the Aussie batsmen, he'll just tie them down, they'll find it hard to score which will help the quicks.

 

[James]

It won't be tripe when you lose back back Ashes this year.

I don't think that will happen, and either way how does that negate my position? I'm arguing a case from fact, most of what I've been met with has been conjecture and bias.

 

[leatherface58]

Prior is the key. Thankfully, no Swann and a misfiring Broad = long tail.

 

[ahmed778]

I don't think that will happen, and either way how does that negate my position? I'm arguing a case from fact, most of what I've been met with has been conjecture and bias.

Well you never know, quite a few of you were saying that the English B Side would whitewash the NZ Team.
Performing in India on Rank turners is very different than performing on swinging/seaming conditions or even on Flat Tracks.

 

[James]

Well you never know, quite a few of you were saying that the English B Side would whitewash the NZ Team.
Performing in India on Rank turners is very different than performing on swinging/seaming conditions or even on Flat Tracks.

Who said anyone would whitewash anyone? Provide evidence is all I'm asking.

 

[Robert]

Guess which team has lost to both New Zealand and the West Indies? And a whitewash against Pakistan?

Face the facts, England don't seem to be taking teams ranked below #4 seriously at all.

The losers in WI were a side very much in transition, with a new bowling attack. England actually had them nine wickets down in each of the last two matches, so that 0-1 could easily have been 2-1 under slightly different circumstances.

England were trying hard to beat Pakistan in UAE and got them out cheaply most times. They were not well practiced against that type of bowling on those types of wicket, but they learned from the experience and defeated India away.

England haven't lost to NZ since 1999. Don't count your chickens. Bell, Root and Prior are capable of batting all day.

 

[ahmed778]

Who said anyone would whitewash anyone? Provide evidence is all I'm asking.

I am pretty sure Malakin said that.

 

[giri26]

First there are rankings and then the real ability. Rankings are barely number games. You can't really take them seriously. I remember in tennis when Thomas Muster was ranked one for sometime. The only surface he was comfortable with was Clay (He won French Open). That does not mean that he was the best player on view at that time.

So I would say that England and SA have been ahead of the pack in recent times. They have had more success away from home than any other team in recent times. So ability wise they are number 1 and 2. The next three are India, Australia and Pakistan, not in any order as they have struggled away from their comfort zone in recent times. SL and the rest come below them.

WI and NZ have shown tremendous improvement and I feel that they might do well in the next couple of years.

I think rankings and ability should not be confused. The number one ranking is mostly accurate but the rest can shuffle according to their respective results.

 

[James]

I am pretty sure Malakin said that.

Haha Malakian, yeah what a great exemplary catchall source you've got there.

 

[Anfield]

Guess which team has lost to both New Zealand and the West Indies? And a whitewash against Pakistan?

Face the facts, England don't seem to be taking teams ranked below #4 seriously at all.

you keep saying that but do you have any basis of that? Sorry to be blunt but your post is utter nonsense and shows your mentality where you don't want to credit the winning team but accuse England of deliberately playing poor cricket. Your hate for England is very visible.

England prepared for at least three months in advance for Pakistan series. They gave us a stern challenge in last two matches. Series was much closer than what the result shows. Anyone who saw that series and follows cricket won't buy your garbage about England not taking Pakistan seriously.

 

[vandokkum]

Test cricket is filled with some seriously poor teams at the moment, most teams have been getting slaughtered the moment they leave their shores

 

[Varun]

England are fast becoming the new Pakistan. Mercurial.

Go New Zealand, you deserve the win.

 

[ali bubba]

England are fast becoming the new Pakistan. Mercurial.

Go New Zealand, you deserve the win.

That's what I thought. England are becoming like Pakistan in that they're unpredictable.

A few pages back someone mentioned about the English fans complaining about the picthes being flat. Where is the evidence of this?

The English commies have been complaining about the flat pitch in the 1st test and 3rd test, both tests where we've been 2nd best. So it's not they're using excuses for England not winning as we've been outplayed on flat decks.

 

[ahmed778]

Test cricket is filled with some seriously poor teams at the moment, most teams have been getting slaughtered the moment they leave their shores

Wait till SA tour India or the U.A.E.
You'll see what slaughtering is.

 

[cricketindiafan]

hah? Am i hearing you correctly? Didn't SA just win in Australia recently (November/December)?
The last time we toured India was in 2010 at their peak and we drew 1-1 thrashing them by an innings in their backyard in one of those games, in fact we have won by an innings twice there. Something England could not do against an ailing team.

Just a reminder our middle order in that match had Vijay, Badrinath and Saha besides Sachin- Saha and Badri on debut and Vijay in his 4th test, so was not exactly our strongest side. The win in 2008 at Ahmedabad was way better imo.

When VVS (Dravid did not play the series) came back for the next test, SA were thrashed by an innings.

 

[vandokkum]

Wait till SA tour India or the U.A.E.
You'll see what slaughtering is.

You are right, SA have never won series away against Pakistan/ India while they have beaten us multiple times

 

[vandokkum]

Just a reminder our middle order in that match had Vijay, Badrinath and Saha besides Sachin- Saha and Badri on debut and Vijay in his 4th test, so was not exactly our strongest side. The win in 2008 at Ahmedabad was way better imo.

When VVS (Dravid did not play the series) came back for the next test, SA were thrashed by an innings.

SA's record in India and subcontinent is miles better than India's record in SA/ outside Asia.

 

[KingKhanWC]

NZ totally dominated England all test match. )

Poor bumble was about to burst into tears.

 

[Saurav]

Go Kiwis

 

[James]

England are fast becoming the new Pakistan. Mercurial.

Go New Zealand, you deserve the win.

I agree particularly with the second part of this post.

New Zealand deserves the win here, we have to respect the cricketing lesson we have been given. The series has been mostly rain-hit but this match has actually been exciting, hopefully the reverse fixture in May provides more good cricket.

 

[James]

you keep saying that but do you have any basis of that? Sorry to be blunt but your post is utter nonsense and shows your mentality where you don't want to credit the winning team but accuse England of deliberately playing poor cricket. Your hate for England is very visible.

England prepared for at least three months in advance for Pakistan series. They gave us a stern challenge in last two matches. Series was much closer than what the result shows. Anyone who saw that series and follows cricket won't buy your garbage about England not taking Pakistan seriously.

Most PPers with even modest critical reading skills stopped taking his embittered propaganda seriously long ago, don't worry about it.

 

[malakian]

England are an absolute disgrace. I want to punch each and every one of them in the face.

 

[malakian]

Oh, that rhymes! ^^

 

[cricketindiafan]

SA's record in India and subcontinent is miles better than India's record in SA/ outside Asia.

And who's denying that? Was responding to the point about that 2010 win being against the best Indian team, it clearly wasn't. Besides Sachin, the middle order had a total exp of 2 tests.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

) LOVE it. Nothing better than seeing the English struggling. Even an unlikely draw will feel like a loss

 

[leatherface58]

England are an absolute disgrace. I want to punch each and every one of them in the face.

 

[Executioner]

This goes to show that England's most important player is Graeme Swann. Swann brings useful variation in the bowlin attack and coudl prove lethal against this NZ batsmen who arent the best against spin

 

[malakian]

NZ have no right to play this well against us. Damn you McCullum.

 

[ali bubba]

NZ's dominance in this test reminds me of the first Ashes test in the 06/07 series at the Gabba. Completely crushed throughout.

 

[vandokkum]

NZ have no right to play this well against us. Damn you McCullum.

) England still better than South Africa?

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

oh man, i can't wait till the match starts.

 

[Fire Bird]

NZ have no right to play this well against us. Damn you McCullum.

Hey malakian Jimmy Andersen Mcgrath got 3/140 and Boult got 6/60

 

[Fire Bird]

) England still better than South Africa?

Dont you know Andersen is the no.2 bowler in the world and Broad is the same quality as Philander :rondu

 

[Fire Bird]

Test cricket is filled with some seriously poor teams at the moment, most teams have been getting slaughtered the moment they leave their shores

But even those teams have won a world cup or at the very least a knockout game in the world cup

 

[vandokkum]

But even those teams have won a world cup or at the very least a knockout game in the world cup

Touche

 

[Random Aussie]

England are an absolute disgrace. I want to punch each and every one of them in the face.

Woo, the great man shows when his team is losing! Gained some credit to day. Now long may you suffer this SERIES DEFEAT TO NEW ZEALAND.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is going to be a historic day in test cricket. Get Bell quickly and it could be all over like a flash.

 

[James]

Starts in a bit. Any point in watching it? I might just go to bed.

 

[Gunther]

Bell, Root, Bair and Prior make England proud lads

 

[Sledger]

Dead wicket, sun shining down.. slim chance of a draw still?


or are England mentally cooked without Cook and Trott?

 

[Gunther]

I would not have minded a brave defeat here over tamely going down playing for a draw. Drawing against NZ is as good as a defeat

 

[KingKhanWC]

England will fight but McCullum's men will be highly motivated, fighting harder for victory. Martin the left arm spinner needs to bowl well. NZ deserve the win.

 

[Fire Bird]

This is going to be a historic day in test cricket. Get Bell quickly and it could be all over like a flash.

IMO Prior and Root are the big wickets. Bell doesnt look they type that would survive in a tough situation. If he does though, other teams watch out, Bell has all the talent but mentally

 

[Fire Bird]

LOL @MCCullum loading the slips