Osama Bin Laden is DEAD

[anand99]

How is asking for a fair trial for OBL any form of sympathy? If anything it should be an open-shut case: OBL=bad man, lock him up/execute him

The worst criminals have trials for war crimes, don't they? Fair trials is something that should be offered to everybody, from the nicest old lady to the filthiest axe murderer.

If you want my answer, I believe in my armed forces more than OBL. If they shot him dead, there must a reason for it. And frankly, osama lifting a finger in protest would have been enough reason as far as I am concerned. He can rot in hell.

 

[1137moiz]

If you want my answer, I believe in my armed forces more than OBL. If they shot him dead, there must a reason for it. And frankly, obama lifting a finger in protest would have been enough reason as far as I am concerned. He can rot in hell.

Obama or Osama?

As far as believing goes, that's your call but both have a pretty rotten track record of civilian murders

 

[anand99]

Obama or Osama?

As far as believing goes, that's your call but both have a pretty rotten track record of civilian murders

I know who I trust more. I respect your opinion given where you are from as long you know to disagree respectfully instead of resorting to name calling. Then you are just acting silly. Not everyone is going to agree with you or me.

 

[GOAT]

I hate it when people resort to name calling and call someone a made up word like a radicalist and then complain about name calling later on in the same thread.

 

[Zohaib19]

Its ridiculous the amount of conspiracy theories that are springing up. Some people will never be satisfied.

Everyone is asking for pictures but the truth is if pictures were released, 90% of conspiracy theorists will say its fake and 10% will say that its the US just gloating as usual and they shouldn't have released the photos.

Before reports came out about what happened to his body, people were saying he should get the proper Islamic burial and once it was found what happened with the body, people are now asking why the US didn't keep his body for a few days for confirmation.

How about the fact that it would literally take the Taliban 2 minutes to say that Osama isn't dead if he were alive? What's that? You say, Osama has been dead for years? How about all his recordings explicitly referring to current events that have been released in the past couple of months? Let me guess, they hired an actor.

Seriously people will go to any length to believe what they want to believe and there is nothing you can do to convince them. And this hatred that Pakistanis seem to have for the US is just ridiculous.

 

[shaykh1985]

If you want my answer, I believe in my armed forces more than OBL. If they shot him dead, there must a reason for it. And frankly, osama lifting a finger in protest would have been enough reason as far as I am concerned. He can rot in hell.

Your argument is terrible.

There was a reason for shooting him dead. Execution or they just didn't want a trial. Many analysts have dealt with this killing an unarmed man thing by stating a trial may lead to national security issues and kidnapping etc so the best decision was to just kill him. This is not a justifiable argument and I take issue with an argument that states they couldn't apprehend an unarmed man without shooting him in the head.

And on your point about a trial. Basically we live in a world where if the US say something then we take it as gospel.

'In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".

Do you believe that to be an unreasonable request?

Anyway the reply:

George Bush dismissed this offer as non negotiable..."There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty"

This isn't anyone showing support for Osama but just taking issue with the fact that a nation feels it can act with impunity.

Since when did people stop viewing means as relevant.

 

[Fawad]

Its ridiculous the amount of conspiracy theories that are springing up. Some people will never be satisfied.

Everyone is asking for pictures but the truth is if pictures were released, 90% of conspiracy theorists will say its fake and 10% will say that its the US just gloating as usual and they shouldn't have released the photos.

Before reports came out about what happened to his body, people were saying he should get the proper Islamic burial and once it was found what happened with the body, people are now asking why the US didn't keep his body for a few days for confirmation.

How about the fact that it would literally take the Taliban 2 minutes to say that Osama isn't dead if he were alive? What's that? You say, Osama has been dead for years? How about all his recordings explicitly referring to current events that have been released in the past couple of months? Let me guess, they hired an actor.

Seriously people will go to any length to believe what they want to believe and there is nothing you can do to convince them. And this hatred that Pakistanis seem to have for the US is just ridiculous.

Like the fat yanks don't hate Pakistanis/Muslims, GTFO.

 

[shaykh1985]

How is asking for a fair trial for OBL any form of sympathy? If anything it should be an open-shut case: OBL=bad man, lock him up/execute him

The worst criminals have trials for war crimes, don't they? Fair trials is something that should be offered to everybody, from the nicest old lady to the filthiest axe murderer.

If they got Gaddafi that would have been two assassinations in a week...who needs trials when your the USA...

 

[Poison]

Really? Now are you sympathazing with OBL that he didn't get a fair trial. The fact that you cannot respond to someone's post without name calling says a lot about your maturity level.

Sympathizing? It's called general human rights friend.

Also sorry for hurting your feelings. Have a tissue.

 

[Poison]

Why can't it work the other way? We haven't seen any recent video of Obama walking around alive. Do you have any? If so, show it. Like I said, the US says he is dead and I believe the US. If you have any other info that leads you to believe Osama is alive then produce it.

1. Logic

If you say something, you have to have evidence to back it up. If you say something and don't have any evidence why in blue hell would I accept it? I'm not enforcing any beliefs on you here. Also, you seem to be confused, I don't doubt that Osama is dead, I however look upon the circumstances/timing with some scepticism.

But then again the USA (and you) don't really work on the principle of evidence; see Iraq and WMD's

 

[1137moiz]

If they got Gaddafi that would have been two assassinations in a week...who needs trials when your the USA...

As it was they got his innocent grandkids. How many innocent casualties does that make it now?

 

[Poison]

A million and counting ... I wonder how these people will answer God on the Day of Judgement

 

[shaykh1985]

Discussion on the legality of Osama's murder...

Gotta say that HRW reply is disgraceful...should be discussing means then ends...not ends then means...

BERLIN - WHILE many world leaders applauded the US operation that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, there were concerns in parts of Europe that the United States was wrong to act as policeman, judge and executioner.

US Attorney General Eric Holder defended the action as lawful on Tuesday, but some in Europe said Osama should have been captured and put on trial.

'It was quite clearly a violation of international law,' former West German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt told German TV. 'The operation could also have incalculable consequences in the Arab world in light of all the unrest.' Ehrhart Koerting, Interior Minister in the city-state of Berlin, said: 'As a lawyer, I would have preferred to have seen him put on trial at the International Criminal Court (ICC).' Gert-Jan Knoops, a Dutch-based international law specialist, said Osama should have been arrested and extradited to the United States. He drew parallels with the arrest of former Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic, who was put on trial at the war crimes tribunal in The Hague after his arrest in 2001.

'The Americans say they are at war with terrorism and can take out their opponents on the battlefield,' Mr Knoops said. 'But in a strictly formal sense, this argument does not stand up.'

Reed Brody, counsel at New York-based Human Rights Watch, said it was too early to say whether the US operation was legal because too few details were known. 'Is the world a better place because Osama is not here? People can obviously answer that question. But does that mean you have the right to violate protocols of human rights or international law to do that? Then no.'

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Ms Navi Pillay urged the United States to give the United Nations full details about Osama's killing. 'The United Nations has consistently emphasised that all counter-terrorism acts must respect international law,' she said. -- REUTERS

 

[saqlain]

The killing of OBL is absolutely justified. Too bad the other Al Qaeda leadership was not in the same compound. I have noticed that a lot of people here beleive that OBL is not killed in this operation. I think that is fine. No one should give any justification to others. Americans beleive that they got their man and that is one side of the story. Many people in Pakistan and around the world think otherwise. I think it is a good situation that US is not releasing the pictures. Especially for OBL fans they would live in believe that their star is still alive

 

[GOAT]

Majority of posters have expressed their doubts, but general consensus here is that he is indeed dead. The doubts have more to do with how and why, and the details of the operation so it's pretty unfair to say 'a lot' of people. That's just being selective.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Some Poeple Think America Speaks Truth all the time....

 

[Fawad]

The killing of OBL is absolutely justified. Too bad the other Al Qaeda leadership was not in the same compound. I have noticed that a lot of people here beleive that OBL is not killed in this operation. I think that is fine. No one should give any justification to others. Americans beleive that they got their man and that is one side of the story. Many people in Pakistan and around the world think otherwise. I think it is a good situation that US is not releasing the pictures. Especially for OBL fans they would live in believe that their star is still alive

Judge, jury and executioner, I see! I personally believe the killing of Obama/Bush/Cheney/Modi/Blair are totally justified. Can't wait to see their brains blown out.

 

[shaykh1985]

The killing of OBL is absolutely justified. Too bad the other Al Qaeda leadership was not in the same compound. I have noticed that a lot of people here beleive that OBL is not killed in this operation. I think that is fine. No one should give any justification to others. Americans beleive that they got their man and that is one side of the story. Many people in Pakistan and around the world think otherwise. I think it is a good situation that US is not releasing the pictures. Especially for OBL fans they would live in believe that their star is still alive

Do you mind providing an explanation for how violating a nations sovereignty and committing assassinations on foreign soil is absolutely justified.

 

[1137moiz]

Some Poeple Think America Speaks Truth all the time....

Of course yaar. If they were living in the 40s they would have imagined all Japanese immigrants to be potential spies/traitors. If they were living in the 50s they might've imagined that racial segregation was somehow justified. If they were living in the 60s they would've imagined the Vietnam war to be worth it, a great success and totally justified. And so on.

Not that America is incapable of speaking the truth, but to take everything they say at face value is just foolish after a chequered record of twisting facts and justifying the means through the rarely-reached ends.

 

[saqlain]

Judge, jury and executioner, I see! I personally believe the killing of Obama/Bush/Cheney/Modi/Blair are totally justified. Can't wait to see their brains blown out.

If you have the courage go ahead. Americans show the courage and did it.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Judge, jury and executioner, I see! I personally believe the killing of Obama/Bush/Cheney/Modi/Blair are totally justified. Can't wait to see their brains blown out.

fast

 

[1137moiz]

If you have the courage go ahead. Americans show the courage and did it.

It's not about courage. It's about following procedures for justice. Yes OBL was a bad man and did deserve to pay for his crimes. But the fact that they had to violate another country's sovereignty, having already launched several destructive and botched campaigns in two other countries at the expense of lives and property on both sides, makes it hard to support the notions of America being courageous rather than a schoolyard bully with a self-contradictory mind.

Also, moderators, is it possible to "show the courage" to forcibly change our esteemed fellow's username? I have a feeling it downgrades his esteemed namesake

 

[Poison]

If you have the courage go ahead. Americans show the courage and did it.

Courage lol. He apparently was shot in the head after being held unarmed and in front of his child. I suppose you can justify the exemption and suspension of universal human rights in this case. If they took Saddam in alive (committed way more atrocities than Osama did), why couldn't they have taken in Osama?

:adnan

 

[Fawad]

If you have the courage go ahead. Americans show the courage and did it.

)

Yanks wouldn't know courage if it came up and hit them in their face. The Afghani freedom fighters are courageous, who despite being outgunned have pummelled the fat yanks for ten years.

 

[saqlain]

Courage lol. He apparently was shot in the head after being held unarmed and in front of his child. I suppose you can justify the exemption and suspension of universal human rights in this case. If they took Saddam in alive (committed way more atrocities than Osama did), why couldn't they have taken in Osama?

:adnan

I am glad that POS is gone and most of us are feeling much better. He brought all this himself.

 

[GOAT]

I once saw a guy smaller then me and kicked him in the nuts. Am I brave too?

 

[saqlain]

)

Yanks wouldn't know courage if it came up and hit them in their face. The Afghani freedom fighters are courageous, who despite being outgunned have pummelled the fat yanks for ten years.

Day dreaming is a bay habbit my friend. Its time to wake up

 

[GOAT]

I am glad that POS is gone and most of us are feeling much better. He brought all this himself.

You've got to be pretty pathetic to feel happy about killing someone when it took you 1-2 trillion dollars and upwards of 900,000 lives lost. Not to mention alienating the fastest growing religion as well as weakening your countries image abroad.

 

[1137moiz]

I once saw a guy smaller then me and kicked him in the nuts. Am I brave too?

You forgot mentioning the part where you beat up a couple of smaller passersby just in case, then had to run around looking for this guy for a decade and then kicked him in the nuts. Real courage

 

[GOAT]

You forgot mentioning the part where you beat up a couple of smaller passersby just in case, then had to run out looking for this guy and then kicked him in the nuts. Real courage

I kicked his son in the nuts too. Are I courageous wonderful wizard of Oz?

 

[Fawad]

Day dreaming is a bay habbit my friend. Its time to wake up

You can drop the act 'Saqlain'. Speaking of courage, why don't you grow a pair and let us PPers know who you really are. What's your real name, Shiva, Shankar, Sachin?

 

[Saad Hasan]

If you want my answer, I believe in my armed forces more than OBL. If they shot him dead, there must a reason for it. And frankly, osama lifting a finger in protest would have been enough reason as far as I am concerned. He can rot in hell.

Have you heard of a little thing called habeas corpus...

it's not as if true patriotic americans are having to contend with right fascist going all out trying to render US constitution obsolete...now one has to deal with extremist hindu transplants such as yourself exporting genocidal hinduvta ethos to america...

 

[PakPrince]

You've got to be pretty pathetic to feel happy about killing someone when it took you 1-2 trillion dollars and upwards of 900,000 lives lost. Not to mention alienating the fastest growing religion as well as weakening your countries image abroad.

do they care?

 

[Fawad]

I kicked his son in the nuts too. Are I courageous wonderful wizard of Oz?

Shankar, I'm sorry 'Saqlain' certainly thinks so!

 

[1137moiz]

do they care?

Probably not, but it's harmful to all concerned at the end of the day. Think of the thousands of US/Western soldiers who've lost their lives to this joke of a war.

 

[saqlain]

It's not about courage. It's about following procedures for justice. Yes OBL was a bad man and did deserve to pay for his crimes. But the fact that they had to violate another country's sovereignty, having already launched several destructive and botched campaigns in two other countries at the expense of lives and property on both sides, makes it hard to support the notions of America being courageous rather than a schoolyard bully with a self-contradictory mind.

Also, moderators, is it possible to "show the courage" to forcibly change our esteemed fellow's username? I have a feeling it downgrades his esteemed namesake

Last time I checked, OBL was running from cave to cave and compund to compund only to save his life. I am not sure if that is call courage either. Someone is paying an awful amount of money to the country to so it is all squared. I must say going in to Iraq was not the ideal thing to do. Saddam could have been removed using other ways. But going in to Afghanistan was the right thing to do.

Just because I do not agree with you, you are asking the mods to change my name????? This is called "real courage".

 

[GOAT]

do they care?

Not yet, but when the empire finally falls and their grandchildren are left to pick up the pieces, I'm sure they'll rethink some of their decisions.

America will fall. Everything runs its due course.

 

[anand99]

1. Logic

If you say something, you have to have evidence to back it up. If you say something and don't have any evidence why in blue hell would I accept it? I'm not enforcing any beliefs on you here. Also, you seem to be confused, I don't doubt that Osama is dead, I however look upon the circumstances/timing with some scepticism.

But then again the USA (and you) don't really work on the principle of evidence; see Iraq and WMD's

So, you don't doubt Osama is dead. So what are you arguing about? My original post was about consiparcy theorists who would argue no matter what that Osama was still alive, even if the US produced the pictures. The day after those pictures are produced there will be a bunch of people claiming how this or that part of it is doctored or fake. Bottom line, there is no convincing these people and I don't think the US should even waste their time trying to. If you don't doubt Osama is dead, then what is your problem?

 

[saqlain]

You can drop the act 'Saqlain'. Speaking of courage, why don't you grow a pair and let us PPers know who you really are. What's your real name, Shiva, Shankar, Sachin?

You are really funny

 

[GOAT]

You are really funny

A lot of truth is said in jest

 

[Fawad]

You are really funny

So is your gimmick.

 

[1137moiz]

Last time I checked, OBL was running from cave to cave and compund to compund only to save his life. I am not sure if that is call courage either. Someone is paying an awful amount of money to the country to so it is all squared. I must say going in to Iraq was not the ideal thing to do. Saddam could have been removed using other ways. But going in to Afghanistan was the right thing to do.

Just because I do not agree with you, you are asking the mods to change my name????? This is called "real courage".

Yes he was, because like Bush, Cheney and the US armed forces etc he's a cowardly murderer. I've already said that OBL was a lowlife terrorist who deserved to pay for his crimes. You're the one glorifying his equally lowlife enemies. Both sides are wrong, I don't understand why it's not penetrating your skull

 

[anand99]

Have you heard of a little thing called habeas corpus...

it's not as if true patriotic americans are having to contend with right fascist going all out trying to render US constitution obsolete...now one has to deal with extremist hindu transplants such as yourself exporting genocidal hinduvta ethos to america...

When Navy SEALs are involved in an operation it is an extremely volatile situation. things can happen. Maybe Osama didn't hear what they said, maybe he said "wait, I give you money" and reached for something. Maybe he raised a finger in protest. Good enough for me to take him down. No regrets.

 

[saqlain]

You've got to be pretty pathetic to feel happy about killing someone when it took you 1-2 trillion dollars and upwards of 900,000 lives lost. Not to mention alienating the fastest growing religion as well as weakening your countries image abroad.

Why dont we just stop worrying about US spending billions or trillians and the image. There are some very intelligent and brilliant people in the US and they are doing just fine and know very well how to manage their country.

 

[Poison]

So, you don't doubt Osama is dead. So what are you arguing about? My original post was about consiparcy theorists who would argue no matter what that Osama was still alive, even if the US produced the pictures. The day after those pictures are produced there will be a bunch of people claiming how this or that part of it is doctored or fake. Bottom line, there is no convincing these people and I don't think the US should even waste their time trying to. If you don't doubt Osama is dead, then what is your problem?

Step 1 : Go into compound shoot million bullets

Step 2 : Claim it's Osama

Step 3 : Drop body into ocean

Step 4 : Provide no evidence of this

Don't you see a gap in evidence there? Osama could've been dead 5 years back, but nobody will ever know. I don't blame some people for not thinking he's dead, given that there is literally no evidence besides the word of Obama and a few Navy Seals. I think he's been dead for a while, this was just an ideal time for his body to pop up.

 

[1137moiz]

Why dont we just stop worrying about US spending billions or trillians and the image. There are some very intelligent and brilliant people in the US and they are doing just fine and know very well how to manage their country.

So you're fine with US soldiers, who could've otherwise spent their days constructing genuinely useful, healthy lives, instead losing their lives in not one, but TWO unnecessary wars?

 

[anand99]

Your argument is terrible.

There was a reason for shooting him dead. Execution or they just didn't want a trial. Many analysts have dealt with this killing an unarmed man thing by stating a trial may lead to national security issues and kidnapping etc so the best decision was to just kill him. This is not a justifiable argument and I take issue with an argument that states they couldn't apprehend an unarmed man without shooting him in the head.

And on your point about a trial. Basically we live in a world where if the US say something then we take it as gospel.

'In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".

Do you believe that to be an unreasonable request?

Anyway the reply:

George Bush dismissed this offer as non negotiable..."There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty"

This isn't anyone showing support for Osama but just taking issue with the fact that a nation feels it can act with impunity.

Since when did people stop viewing means as relevant.

Osama killed many people. It's ok by me if he was executed to avoid a lengthy trial ala KSM. You may not like it, but I am glad he took a bullet. I hope they put two more in him just to be sure.

 

[saqlain]

Yes he was, because like Bush, Cheney and the US armed forces etc he's a cowardly murderer. I've already said that OBL was a lowlife terrorist who deserved to pay for his crimes. You're the one glorifying his equally lowlife enemies. Both sides are wrong, I don't understand why it's not penetrating your skull

Why are you so worried about a "lowlife terrorist"??? I mean there are people dying in Africa and I am sure people dying in the country where ever you life. Dont worry about OBL. He is taken care.

 

[1137moiz]

Osama killed many people. It's ok by me if he was executed to avoid a lengthy trial ala KSM. You may not like it, but I am glad he took a bullet. I hope they put two more in him just to be sure.

That's just the thing. OBL (wrongly) claimed that it was OK to kill US citizens because of the support of Israel, Gulf War etc etc. His image of the US is the same image that you have of him, ie that of an immoral scumbag who had to be taken. Yet it was completely wrong and cowardly for him to carry out such vicious attacks like 9/11.

Why is it OK for the Navy SEALs to do the same thing, only for 10 years longer?

 

[anand99]

Step 1 : Go into compound shoot million bullets

Step 2 : Claim it's Osama

Step 3 : Drop body into ocean

Step 4 : Provide no evidence of this

Don't you see a gap in evidence there? Osama could've been dead 5 years back, but nobody will ever know. I don't blame some people for not thinking he's dead, given that there is literally no evidence besides the word of Obama and a few Navy Seals. I think he's been dead for a while, this was just an ideal time for his body to pop up.

Has anyone seen Osama is walking around alive? There is no live video of him walking around. He's dead. If some people are not satisfied, its their problem. Osama was america's villain. The 9/11 families are satisfied. That is all that matters.

 

[saqlain]

So you're fine with US soldiers, who could've otherwise spent their days constructing genuinely useful, healthy lives, instead losing their lives in not one, but TWO unnecessary wars?

Comon... these are not unnecessary wars

 

[PakPrince]

That's just the thing. OBL (wrongly) claimed that it was OK to kill US citizens because of the support of Israel, Gulf War etc etc. His image of the US is the same image that you have of him, ie that of an immoral scumbag who had to be taken. Yet it was completely wrong and cowardly for him to carry out such vicious attacks like 9/11.

Why is it OK for the Navy SEALs to do the same thing, only for 10 years longer?

Revenge.

OBL was the one who started it.

And by attacking US embassies and then 9/11 it angered US..

And an angering the USA is never a good choice.

 

[1137moiz]

Comon... these are not unnecessary wars

How is invading Iraq not unnecessary when it didn't have a thing to do with OBL, who was sitting hiding in a cave a whole geographic region away?

 

[1137moiz]

Revenge.

OBL was the one who started it.

And by attacking US embassies and then 9/11 it angered US..

And an angering the USA is never a good choice.

Except that OBL claimed he was doing it to avenge the Gulf War, Israeli wars, etc etc--he killed thousands of innocents because he was angry about whatever grievances he had with America. America did the same thing--except they proved stronger. Either way it's wrong, considering there are codes and rules in place

 

[anand99]

That's just the thing. OBL (wrongly) claimed that it was OK to kill US citizens because of the support of Israel, Gulf War etc etc. His image of the US is the same image that you have of him, ie that of an immoral scumbag who had to be taken. Yet it was completely wrong and cowardly for him to carry out such vicious attacks like 9/11.

Why is it OK for the Navy SEALs to do the same thing, only for 10 years longer?

Why do you think I cannot have a view of this that is different from you? Do you think of your pakistani military commando forces to be the same as Osama for doing their duty? Obviously you don't and I would never expect you to. That would be pretty low of you. Similary, I would not even dream of putting these seals in that category.

 

[PakPrince]

Except that OBL claimed he was doing it to avenge the Gulf War, Israeli wars, etc etc. Either way it's wrong.

OBL is a bad person and Im happy he is dead.

He is responsible for many deaths includinn the ones that happen due to bomb blasts in Pakistan everyday

 

[anand99]

How is invading Iraq not unnecessary when it didn't have a thing to do with OBL, who was sitting hiding in a cave a whole geographic region away?

Invading Iraq was unnecessary but do not blame the american forces for it. Blame the administration that was in charge at the time. But, you would be one of the last in line to do so. Many americans have already blamed that administration for years.

 

[Poison]

There are certain posters who seem to have an allergy to logic and/or reasoning.

 

[1137moiz]

OBL is a bad person and Im happy he is dead.

He is responsible for many deaths includinn the ones that happen due to bomb blasts in Pakistan everyday

Sure, but that doesn't mean the procedure of his death had to violate all international law.

the US could very easily have operated an above-board manhunt after 9/11; they had a strong case for capturing and punishing OBL. Instead they've invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, lost countless lives both of their own and of the inhabitants of their countries, and are launching drones into Pakistan day by day. Does that not strike you as a tragic waste?

 

[shaykh1985]

Comon... these are not unnecessary wars

You actually continue to make statements without really defending them...

I'll ask you again...

Is it acceptable to violate a nations sovereignty and commit an assassination on foreign soil?...

 

[Saad Hasan]

When Navy SEALs are involved in an operation it is an extremely volatile situation. things can happen. Maybe Osama didn't hear what they said, maybe he said "wait, I give you money" and reached for something. Maybe he raised a finger in protest. Good enough for me to take him down. No regrets.

You truly are a pathetic hinduvta peddler aren't you...

Did you give Bush the same deference when he was lying on Iraq or Obama when he said Raymond Davis was a diplomat

Plus, as a naturalized american, it's high time you purge yourself of your hindu extremist ideological baggage and internalized ideals that were framed by founders of this nation in the constitution

You should be worried, as to who gave Obama the f-ng right to violate international law and treaty...to assassinate people without any due process, to hold suspects indefinitely without access to lawyers, to undo any and all rights guaranteed to individuals under the bill of rights...

 

[shaykh1985]

Osama killed many people. It's ok by me if he was executed to avoid a lengthy trial ala KSM. You may not like it, but I am glad he took a bullet. I hope they put two more in him just to be sure.

And there goes human rights...killing an unarmed man instead of providing a trial...and you dare call yourself civilised...vengeance isn't legal and it isnt a civilised response...

 

[Saad Hasan]

There are certain posters who seem to have an allergy to logic and/or reasoning.

Adherence to extremist hinduvta ideology does that to people...

 

[shaykh1985]

Invading Iraq was unnecessary but do not blame the american forces for it. Blame the administration that was in charge at the time. But, you would be one of the last in line to do so. Many americans have already blamed that administration for years.

Is it acceptable for someone to go and shoot Bush or Blair in the head while he is asleep?...

 

[PakPrince]

Sure, but that doesn't mean the procedure of his death had to violate all international law.

the US could very easily have operated an above-board manhunt after 9/11; they had a strong case for capturing and punishing OBL. Instead they've invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, lost countless lives both of their own and of the inhabitants of their countries, and are launching drones into Pakistan day by day. Does that not strike you as a tragic waste?

Thing is that American forces took control of Baghdad, there were mass celebrations accross Iraq. And in symbolicism they even destroyed Saddam's statues

Same in Afghanistan. The local populace was very happy when the Taliban were thrown out.

So who am I or you to say these were unnecessary wars

 

[anand99]

And there goes human rights...killing an unarmed man instead of providing a trial...and you dare call yourself civilised...vengeance isn't legal and it isnt a civilised response...

The seals did their duty during a time of war. They shot and killed the enemy. End of story.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

History shows, most of the major empires bullied the enemies/weaker ones to their way to the top and continued to bully the enemies/weaker ones to remain at the top. The only exception to this, I can think of was Ashoka, the Indian emperor of 2nd century BC (after conquering Kalinga he abondoned wars). So, in the current case, US is also no exception, the same goes for Britain a century ago and not to forget, every invading army in history done the same by exterminating the local helpless population of the native lands.

We are progressing fast in modern world with regards to science/technologies/gadgets etc., but our moral/ethical standpoint have always remained coloured and selective with regards to what we perceive wrong and right. Basically, we cherry pick the truth/half-truth/lies that suits for our psychological and moral well-being.

The only question that needs to be asked is, does the rest of the nations can sleep over the current issues happening all around the world whether in the name of religion/region/ideology etc., since it has not affected them? Or waiting for the WWIII to exterminate all living souls on this planet?

 

[1137moiz]

Why do you think I cannot have a view of this that is different from you? Do you think of your pakistani military commando forces to be the same as Osama for doing their duty? Obviously you don't and I would never expect you to. That would be pretty low of you. Similary, I would not even dream of putting these seals in that category.

I'm a huge supporter of the Pakistan army, but I'd be disgusted if they committed genocide on civilians (which they did in 1971 Bangladesh). There's nothing wrong with admitting when your side is doing something wrong. Doing your duty is one thing--it was the Americans' duty to capture OBL under the procedures outlined by international law. They didn't do that. They broke all manner of moral codes to capture him. Just because he's a sickening murderer doesn't put them in the right.

 

[shaykh1985]

The seals did their duty during a time of war. They shot and killed the enemy. End of story.

Lol they shot and killed an unarmed man...

 

[Poison]

This was not on the goddamn warfield.

 

[GOAT]

Some posters here are pretty immature and petty IMO. And no, I don't mean me for those who thought it'd be fun to quote this.

 

[anand99]

Lol they shot and killed an unarmed man...

So? Like I said, maybe he had the urge to go so the seal sent him on his way

 

[anand99]

I'm a huge supporter of the Pakistan army, but I'd be disgusted if they committed genocide on civilians (which they did in 1971 Bangladesh). There's nothing wrong with admitting when your side is doing something wrong. Doing your duty is one thing--it was the Americans' duty to capture OBL under the procedures outlined by international law. They didn't do that. They broke all manner of moral codes to capture him. Just because he's a sickening murderer doesn't put them in the right.

I don't believe my side is doing anything wrong. That's what you are not getting. I don't share your opinion. I am perfectly fine with the fact that OBL was shot and killed.

 

[1137moiz]

History shows, most of the major empires bullied the enemies/weaker ones to their way to the top and continued to bully the enemies/weaker ones to remain at the top. The only exception to this, I can think of was Ashoka, the Indian emperor of 2nd century BC (after conquering Kalinga he abondoned wars). So, in the current case, US is also no exception, the same goes for Britain a century ago and not to forget, every invading army in history done the same by exterminating the local helpless population of the native lands.

We are progressing fast in modern world with regards to science/technologies/gadgets etc., but our moral/ethical standpoint have always remained coloured and selective with regards to what we perceive wrong and right. Basically, we cherry pick the truth/half-truth/lies that suits for our psychological and moral well-being.

The only question that needs to be asked is, does the rest of the nations can sleep over the current issues happening all around the world whether in the name of religion/region/ideology etc., since it has not affected them? Or waiting for the WWIII to exterminate all living souls on this planet?

Er no.

Asoka's one example, what about:

1) Hebrew settlement of the Near East in about 1200 BC. Involved minimal bloodshed.

2) Muslim conquest of the Near East in the seventh century. Involved minimal bloodshed, at least during that timeframe (620-660); also Muslim expansion to Indonesia/SE Asia which was literallly carried forth by traders and sailors

3) Byzantine conquest of Ctesiphon in the early seventh century; relatively little bloodshed

4) Umayyad settlement of Spain in 750, minimal bloodshed.

5) Muslim Ayyubid takeover of Syria, Egypt and Palestine in the late 12th century. Minimal bloodshed.

6) Even the Mongols, known for their incredible savagery against their enemies, made it a point to stick to their treaties. If they allied themselves with somebody, they made it a point to respect that ruler's requests in the treaty. Those who refused alliance, though, were brutally slaughtered.

7) British takeover of S Asia. Involved relatively little bloodshed. The real bloodshed came when they disrespected local customs and the Indian citizens fought back in 1857; till then most of the bloodshed was confined to the battlefield.

8) American war of 1776. Involved generally close/intimate parties fighting and when possible, such as the siege of Yorktown, efforts were made for minimal bloodshed.

And these are just off the top of my head. The point is that although repression and cruelty is the norm (Romans, Barbary Corsairs, Normans, etc.) it is VERY possible to spread your influence and power without hacking and savaging anybody you feel like. Not to mention that America is a signer of dozens of international alliances and treaties, which they freely shun whenever they like.

 

[1137moiz]

I don't believe my side is doing anything wrong. That's what you are not getting. I don't share your opinion. I am perfectly fine with the fact that OBL was shot and killed.

Yes but what you and I think doesn't matter. International guidelines which America supposedly upholds are what matters. And the USA has violated just about every one of those guidelines.

It might be hard for you to take in, but the world isn't America's playground. Especially not the innocent lives on both sides that have been wrecked in this joke of a war.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Some people wouldn't believe he's dead if OBL's brain got splattered over their faces.

There is no point arguing whether he's dead or not with the people demanding proof. They could come up with some other reason for not believing the videos/photos/etc.

The much more interesting question is what happens from here, given that the US govt believe he is dead and that many in the US believe Pak was sheltering him or incompetent at best. What happens with the Afghan war; will they use this as an excuse to withdraw, as some journalists and politicians are saying. What happens with the extreme pressure on Pak now - will we see the army go into n. waziristan? Will we see Pak re-double efforts to catch other al qaeda? What will happen to the already poor Pak-US relationship, etc.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

It would be interesting if USA do an operation against MOdi and kills him in India decalring him terrorist =(Which he is)===What would be my most of indians View Point?

 

[PakPrince]

It would be interesting if USA do an operation against MOdi and kills him in India decalring him terrorist =(Which he is)===What would be my most of indians View Point?

Has Modi attacked USA?

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Er no.

Asoka's one example, what about:

1) Hebrew settlement of the Near East in about 1200 BC. Involved minimal bloodshed.

2) Muslim conquest of the Near East in the seventh century. Involved minimal bloodshed, at least during that timeframe (620-660); also Muslim expansion to Indonesia/SE Asia which was literallly carried forth by traders and sailors

3) Byzantine conquest of Ctesiphon in the early seventh century; relatively little bloodshed

4) Umayyad settlement of Spain in 750, minimal bloodshed.

5) Muslim Ayyubid takeover of Syria, Egypt and Palestine in the late 12th century. Minimal bloodshed.

6) Even the Mongols, known for their incredible savagery against their enemies, made it a point to stick to their treaties. If they allied themselves with somebody, they made it a point to respect that ruler's requests in the treaty. Those who refused alliance, though, were brutally slaughtered.

7) British takeover of S Asia. Involved relatively little bloodshed. The real bloodshed came when they disrespected local customs and the Indian citizens fought back in 1857; till then most of the bloodshed was confined to the battlefield.

8) American civil war. Involved generally close/intimate parties fighting and when possible, such as the siege of Yorktown, efforts were made for minimal bloodshed.

And these are just off the top of my head. The point is that although repression and cruelty is the norm (Romans, Barbary Corsairs, Normans, etc.) it is VERY possible to spread your influence and power without hacking and savaging anybody you feel like. Not to mention that America is a signer of dozens of international alliances and treaties, which they freely shun whenever they like.

Hi moiz,

Thanks for sharing some of the above conquests, I was not aware of some of the above. Though in some of the above cases, I do not totally agree with minimal amount of bloodshed/treachery that was hatched to coerce the hapless local population in accepting the to the rules/regulations/orders of the "invading masters".

Anyway, that is besides the point. I totally agree with you that first and foremost there needs to be a respect for international law at least in this ear, wherein we proudly tap our backs for the great scientific progress we have made. If the parties involved in a conflict are part to an international agreement then those need to be respected, else the same case of "bullying" will continue in the future.


I respect the civility with which you and another poster shayk1985 (I have not seen him in any of the posts I read, to berate/provoke or make fun of anyone who does not agree with his view) have conducted yourselves with regards to debating in a civil manner rather than pointing fingers to the homeland/religion/ideology of the opposing person, if they do not agree with their viewpoint.

Thanks.

 

[1137moiz]

Hi moiz,

Thanks for sharing some of the above conquests, I was not aware of some of the above. Though in some of the above cases, I do not totally agree with minimal amount of bloodshed/treachery that was hatched to coerce the hapless local population in accepting the to the rules/regulations/orders of the "invading masters".

Anyway, that is besides the point. I totally agree with you that first and foremost there needs to be a respect for international law at least in this ear, wherein we proudly tap our backs for the great scientific progress we have made. If the parties involved in a conflict are part to an international agreement then those need to be respected, else the same case of "bullying" will continue in the future.


I respect the civility with which you and another poster shayk1985 (I have not seen him in any of the posts I read, to berate/provoke or make fun of anyone who does not agree with his view) have conducted yourselves with regards to debating in a civil manner rather than pointing fingers to the homeland/religion/ideology of the opposing person, if they do not agree with their viewpoint.

Thanks.

Thanks mate. I respect your civility.