The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[BunnyRabbit]

Goldberg was never trained properly, the WCW power-plant failed him and they made no effort to improve him in the ring.

Berg wasn’t a fan of the business and it may explain why he was clueless during his peak.

WCW were probably happy with the money he drew at the gate and how over he kept getting so made no effort to help him.

Goldberg isn’t a great worker but he was a huge huge star, the hype was real, even to this day. In his peak, his popularity was up there with Austin and Berg/Austin was a smarks wet dream when it came to fantasy booking during that period. Long after his run in WCW and his first run in WWE, his DVD became the best selling of all time for Vince or up there at least.

Bret made some good money but health comes first and I think after the stuff which happened with Owen to, it must have been too much. The period of inactivity fast tracks your decline to begin with and I think after the stroke as you say, it was the final nail in the coffin of his in-ring career.

What a damn shame.

Imagine these matches during RA era:

Bret v Shawn

Bret v Kurt Angle : This would be a match of the century candidate

Goldberg was a good athlete no doubt about that. He was pretty agile considering his size. Had an aura about him as well. I was really marked up for his 2016 return and him squashing Lesnar and even that Mania match against Lesnar to end to feud was pretty good. But again I think Brock sold the hell out to make it look all great. Plus that jump to avoid the spear was a spot that could have easily gone wrong considering Berg's ring rust and dangerous nature. But after that, all his returns have been underwhelming and repetitive. I did enjoy the Ziggler match though who is a pretty good seller as well and it was some good comic relief with Dolph telling him he got lucky.

But I'd agree with Bischoff that Goldberg wouldn't have been that big of a star if he were to debut in today's age. He was a product of the most successful era of pro wrestling.

Bret vs Angle (agreed would have been a barnstormer)
Bret vs Bryan
Bret vs Edge
Bret vs Brock
Bret vs Rey (don't know if that has happened already)


Regarding Austin vs Goldberg, think it would have been a spectacle but the match would have stunk. Goldberg is just too limited to have a good match at any time of his career.

Think the least talked about feud/triology of matches that we did get to see is still Austin vs Dwayne at Mania 15 17 19. Sports Entertainment at its very very best.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well congrats bros this thread is now 100 pages big.

On the other hand, was just scrolling through, found out Britt took shot on Punk recently saying the locker room is fine but one individual is toxic who thinks he is bigger than AEW. It's so hypocritical that she was over the moon last year when Punk mentioned her in his promos. AEW wrestlers are probably the biggest marks themselves.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well congrats bros this thread is now 100 pages big.

On the other hand, was just scrolling through, found out Britt took shot on Punk recently saying the locker room is fine but one individual is toxic who thinks he is bigger than AEW. It's so hypocritical that she was over the moon last year when Punk mentioned her in his promos. AEW wrestlers are probably the biggest marks themselves.

That’s crazy aha considering the old thread has been archived and it was pretty huge to.

There is no diplomacy on the wrestlers side because the leadership is so weak, everyone is best mates with the promoter and they say what they like. It exposes how toxic things are behind the scenes, Baker is part of the trampoline circle jerk, it would appear they all banded together in order to make sure Punk doesn’t work there again, which makes sense why TK is trying to sort a buyout, Punk working there again is not an option and I don’t know if Punk wants to anyway.

If there is anyone who thinks they are bigger then the company, it’s The Elite and their supporters. And lets just assume for a second Punk does think he is bigger than the company, it’s a fact; Punk is the biggest star they ever had, his ego is justified, but if you go back to the early part of this year, he wasn’t using it to bury talent but elevate them, ESPN did an article on it. On the other hand, the Elite have tried to sabotage anything that got over and think they are bigger then they actually are.

As much as I like Jericho, he’s a master politician now, it wouldn’t shock me if he banded with The Elite to get rid of their common enemy.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That’s crazy aha considering the old thread has been archived and it was pretty huge to.

There is no diplomacy on the wrestlers side because the leadership is so weak, everyone is best mates with the promoter and they say what they like. It exposes how toxic things are behind the scenes, Baker is part of the trampoline circle jerk, it would appear they all banded together in order to make sure Punk doesn’t work there again, which makes sense why TK is trying to sort a buyout, Punk working there again is not an option and I don’t know if Punk wants to anyway.

If there is anyone who thinks they are bigger then the company, it’s The Elite and their supporters. And lets just assume for a second Punk does think he is bigger than the company, it’s a fact; Punk is the biggest star they ever had, his ego is justified, but if you go back to the early part of this year, he wasn’t using it to bury talent but elevate them, ESPN did an article on it. On the other hand, the Elite have tried to sabotage anything that got over and think they are bigger then they actually are.

As much as I like Jericho, he’s a master politician now, it wouldn’t shock me if he banded with The Elite to get rid of their common enemy.

It's a Mark Circle. All these marks just suck up to TK and he buys into it and starts thinking of himself that grand. And then there's Meltzer who keeps telling them they are the biggest wrestling company in the world. It's gotten beyond hilarious now. They are not a global empire like WWE who can afford to let go of any star they want and it wouldn't hurt their revenue and business (not talking about product quality). Even if Punk was an elephant in the room, they needed to capitalize on his star power and grow the company. The Elite simply aren't as big as they think. If they leave AEW, they'll be back to doing indies. The only reason they were offered a big contract back in 2019 was because Vince didn't want to see a new promotion getting formed. Guess AEW will remain a small time wrestling promotion cause they don't have the vision to grow themselves. All they cater to is getting awards from Meltzer.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Tbh I think Bret always had more animosity towards Hunter then Vince.

Hunter came up with the screwjob, he suggested it to Vince.

Jim Cornette came up with the finish (LOL) but he had no idea what they were planning.

Vince made significant efforts to repair bridges with Bret, the screw job was a big event in their history and if you ignore that / Shawn being pushed when Bret was coming out of his major run with the top title, I think Bret had a good relationship with Vince. The two liked each other. Hunter on the other hand…..being associated with the Kliq long before he made that suggestion didn’t go down well with Bret in those days given their antics, the locker room was split and then for someone from the Kliq making the suggestion, it must have really rubbed him the wrong way over the years. Remember when Bret had a stroke, Vince was one of the first people to contact him.

You’re spot on that it’s a bit different here with Punk.

The final stretch of his run was disastrous backstage because the more he got over the more Hunter looked to put him down and as you say the issues continued long after he left with the lawsuit.

There are two things or a combination of both which may help sign Punk to the E:

- An apology from Trips for firing Punk on his wedding day

- Not much is said but they agree, let bygones be bygones, no specific apology but here’s a big big bag

The thing which tells me there might be a tiny chance something surrounding the second option could happen is that Punk was working with Fox who aimed to mediate between Punk and WWE in a bid to sign him, I don’t know what the conversation was but I believe Punk/HHH spoke to each other and am not sure they have some time after that.

WWE were bitter then to and Hunter had a huge ego, I also think Vince underestimated whether Punk could be as big a draw again.

HHH has reiterated that the desire has to be there on both sides implying Punk would never want to work there like ever, but am not sure that is entirely true now, Punk linking up with Fox was a smart move on his side, he knew he’d become a hot free agent, we could say he used WWE to leverage big money from the mark but I think he was open to accepting a big big bag from Vince potentially.

But still I’d be leaning towards a no to, but I believe they may talk, am sure both parties would be open to it, especially if things with AEW are sour. Punk is in a strong position, he can sue, he could be bought out of his contract and there could be more money if TK requests an NDA because he loves those, I don’t know if Punk will have the desire to work in a toxic environment in a place where he helped elevate talent and wanted to enjoy himself / continue doing so in the final part of his career. It may be better to take the step aside cash.

He doesn’t need the money always saved well, not from AEW or WWE, I do feel while money played a part he came back for the love of the business and the fans, when you read the vitriol online and the politics he had to deal with? he may just ride of into the sunset.

He once said to Vince, you need me, I don’t need you. And it’s true. At this point I think unless someone offers a really big bag, he will explore other opportunities, movies, comics, punditry etc people underestimate what a big star and draw Punk is, he doesn’t even need to wrestle.

I don't know, man. I'm sure that he has always despised Hunter. But Hunter was never big enough to affect him in any significant way. With Vince, first there was the case of Vince taking over his dad's territory, Stampede Wrestling, and not paying Stu Hart a single dime. That wasn't that major of an issue, but the Montreal Screwjob was a betrayal, double-cross annihilation of trust; all rolled into one for Bret. Precisely because Bret looked up to Vince like a father figure. I think at the end of the day, the people you don't care about; they don't mean anything anyway. But when the people you care about hurt you; that cuts deep.

Yeah, I guess there is a tiny chance that Punk might sign with WWE. But personally speaking, I would be very, very shocked if he does.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well congrats bros this thread is now 100 pages big.

On the other hand, was just scrolling through, found out Britt took shot on Punk recently saying the locker room is fine but one individual is toxic who thinks he is bigger than AEW. It's so hypocritical that she was over the moon last year when Punk mentioned her in his promos. AEW wrestlers are probably the biggest marks themselves.

LOL they're a freaking mob, this lot. A circle jerk of marks who think that they are responsible for bringing about some kind of revolution in the business, lol. The reality is that most of them mean precious little, and the biggest reason AEW is where it is today is Tony Khan, who somehow managed to get a show with largely jobber talent on national television three years ago. And say what you will about TK, but he is a great promoter who has been able to do grow his business in a market that WWE has dominated for years.

The way some of these AEW wrestlers behave is no different from the way that so many internet trolls behave. One idiot echoes an opinion and the rest of the mob reinforces it like a bunch of brainwashed imbeciles who don't have the ability to think for themselves. Something evident by how all of them can't stop talking about how toxic Punk was.

And Jericho, who completely went over the hill a long time ago, is no different. He is trying to fit in with the cool kids. Like an old man trying desperately to cling to the vestiges of his youth and stay relevant.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] well congrats bros this thread is now 100 pages big.

On the other hand, was just scrolling through, found out Britt took shot on Punk recently saying the locker room is fine but one individual is toxic who thinks he is bigger than AEW. It's so hypocritical that she was over the moon last year when Punk mentioned her in his promos. AEW wrestlers are probably the biggest marks themselves.

If it wasn't for Tony Khan, the Bucks would probably be working PWG and gaining notoriety among the small group of basement dwelling smart marks who still pay money to buy those DVDs. Excalibur would probably be calling their matches and working a second job to support that rinky dink promotion. Omega, if he wasn't fired by NJPW would probably be bouncing around between Japan, Mexico and the US indies...also having notoriety among no one but a small section of basement dwelling smart marks who think he is the "best bout machine" in wrestling. While the rest of the crew would probably be staring into the abyss of irrelevance in ROH.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

LOL they're a freaking mob, this lot. A circle jerk of marks who think that they are responsible for bringing about some kind of revolution in the business, lol. The reality is that most of them mean precious little, and the biggest reason AEW is where it is today is Tony Khan, who somehow managed to get a show with largely jobber talent on national television three years ago. And say what you will about TK, but he is a great promoter who has been able to do grow his business in a market that WWE has dominated for years.

The way some of these AEW wrestlers behave is no different from the way that so many internet trolls behave. One idiot echoes an opinion and the rest of the mob reinforces it like a bunch of brainwashed imbeciles who don't have the ability to think for themselves. Something evident by how all of them can't stop talking about how toxic Punk was.

And Jericho, who completely went over the hill a long time ago, is no different. He is trying to fit in with the cool kids. Like an old man trying desperately to cling to the vestiges of his youth and stay relevant.

*last vestiges

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s crazy aha considering the old thread has been archived and it was pretty huge to.

There is no diplomacy on the wrestlers side because the leadership is so weak, everyone is best mates with the promoter and they say what they like. It exposes how toxic things are behind the scenes, Baker is part of the trampoline circle jerk, it would appear they all banded together in order to make sure Punk doesn’t work there again, which makes sense why TK is trying to sort a buyout, Punk working there again is not an option and I don’t know if Punk wants to anyway.

If there is anyone who thinks they are bigger then the company, it’s The Elite and their supporters. And lets just assume for a second Punk does think he is bigger than the company, it’s a fact; Punk is the biggest star they ever had, his ego is justified, but if you go back to the early part of this year, he wasn’t using it to bury talent but elevate them, ESPN did an article on it. On the other hand, the Elite have tried to sabotage anything that got over and think they are bigger then they actually are.

As much as I like Jericho, he’s a master politician now, it wouldn’t shock me if he banded with The Elite to get rid of their common enemy.

The guys who can take leadership positions (Mox and Bryan) are not leaders. They are interested in wrestling rather than being involved in backstage B.S. Jericho on the other hand, is a politician looking out for his own interests. And someone who has decided that he will hold on to the last vestiges of his youth by any means necessary, Even if it means cozying up with the Bucks.

Omega is too much of a simpleton and an idiot to be taken seriously by anyone as a leader. So that basically gives the Bucks free-rein to go out here and bury/sabotage anyone they feel like burying/sabotaging. And if they can't bury someone in the ring or backstage, then they'll go to Meltzer and feed him their line of bullsh*t, which will go unchallenged and be accepted as fact since no one else takes Meltzer seriously enough to feed him anything.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If it wasn't for Tony Khan, the Bucks would probably be working PWG and gaining notoriety among the small group of basement dwelling smart marks who still pay money to buy those DVDs. Excalibur would probably be calling their matches and working a second job to support that rinky dink promotion. Omega, if he wasn't fired by NJPW would probably be bouncing around between Japan, Mexico and the US indies...also having notoriety among no one but a small section of basement dwelling smart marks who think he is the "best bout machine" in wrestling. While the rest of the crew would probably be staring into the abyss of irrelevance in ROH.

The only guy who was able to bring together All In was Cody Rhodes. I didn't like him back then as much as I do now because his in ring work wasn't as good back then as it is now. It was him who held all the talks and staged the event. And yet he was still gracious enough to let the bucks mainevent that show although I'd say Rey's presence would have something to do with it.

Jericho and Cody were the only 2 mainstream names earlier on in AEW history. And Tony was actually pretty smart in that he capitalized all the momentum generated by All In (which was basically an NJPW-ROH-indie show) to get guys from these promotions and start a promotion.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

*last vestiges

I liked how Jericho was in WWE where even though he had some influence due to his relationship with Vince but he was made to oblige with the set confines of WWE. Now he has a free run and is more like a big fish in a small pond where everyone lets him do whatever he wants to and he has gone a bit unhinged.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't know, man. I'm sure that he has always despised Hunter. But Hunter was never big enough to affect him in any significant way. With Vince, first there was the case of Vince taking over his dad's territory, Stampede Wrestling, and not paying Stu Hart a single dime. That wasn't that major of an issue, but the Montreal Screwjob was a betrayal, double-cross annihilation of trust; all rolled into one for Bret. Precisely because Bret looked up to Vince like a father figure. I think at the end of the day, the people you don't care about; they don't mean anything anyway. But when the people you care about hurt you; that cuts deep.

Yeah, I guess there is a tiny chance that Punk might sign with WWE. But personally speaking, I would be very, very shocked if he does.

I agree. Trips didn't gain proper influence till 2002 when his reign of terror started which also coincided with re signing of his old Kliq buddies esp HBK. Plus I believe it was around that time when he started a relationship with Steph in real life as well. Before that, he was simply a little bully in a group of big bullies.

Think Vince simply didn't want to sign Punk regardless of his drawing power, he said it back around the time he was on that Fox show. Punk was probably planning to use WWE as a ploy to get an even bigger deal with AEW that he eventually ended up with.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The guys who can take leadership positions (Mox and Bryan) are not leaders. They are interested in wrestling rather than being involved in backstage B.S. Jericho on the other hand, is a politician looking out for his own interests. And someone who has decided that he will hold on to the last vestiges of his youth by any means necessary, Even if it means cozying up with the Bucks.

Omega is too much of a simpleton and an idiot to be taken seriously by anyone as a leader. So that basically gives the Bucks free-rein to go out here and bury/sabotage anyone they feel like burying/sabotaging. And if they can't bury someone in the ring or backstage, then they'll go to Meltzer and feed him their line of bullsh*t, which will go unchallenged and be accepted as fact since no one else takes Meltzer seriously enough to feed him anything.

Think Mox will try to be a leader now. Him signing an extension and getting his wife in AEW is an indicator that he is being given more power backstage.

Bryan on the other hand is probably just going to go back to WWE after witnessing how stuff is run in AEW backstage and stuff. The two reasons he stated for going to AEW was that he wanted to work with NJPW and reconnect with his indie style wrestling. WWE had offered him NJPW offer as well but AEW's offer was I think same amount of work with more money.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know, man. I'm sure that he has always despised Hunter. But Hunter was never big enough to affect him in any significant way. With Vince, first there was the case of Vince taking over his dad's territory, Stampede Wrestling, and not paying Stu Hart a single dime. That wasn't that major of an issue, but the Montreal Screwjob was a betrayal, double-cross annihilation of trust; all rolled into one for Bret. Precisely because Bret looked up to Vince like a father figure. I think at the end of the day, the people you don't care about; they don't mean anything anyway. But when the people you care about hurt you; that cuts deep.

Yeah, I guess there is a tiny chance that Punk might sign with WWE. But personally speaking, I would be very, very shocked if he does.

I find it amusing that Bret didn’t stop at criticising Hunter even when he had been employed by WWE, Bret never fails to speak his true feelings. He’d certainly come to despise him eventually, but in the late 90’s I don’t think Bret liked him due to the Kliq, am sure there are probably many stories out there about this. He was mad at Vince no doubt, but I feel due to that relation they had he was more willing to bury the hatchet, that’s a good point on the people you care about, that may have also played a part in his relation with Shawn in recent years. Bret barely has a bad word to say about Shawn, it’s generally Goldberg, Goldberg, Goldberg and then Hunter; all for good reason.

 

[shaz619]

I watched some of the Crown Jewel matches/segment:

Lesnar/Lashley, decent opener to kick of the show with two heavyweights, it was more of an angle to set up another match and am fine with that because I rather they have a big match in America

Reigns/Paul, this match was fine and while Logan’s natural athleticism played a part, you have to give Roman massive props for carrying the match, he practically has great matches with everyone and to produce this with a rookie is a testament to how special this run has been.

Logan has some good natural tools, but also a good reflection of how low standards have fallen in this era where you are judged on your sports; it says it all when he can do the same stuff others can on the roster in the ring, he does understand pacing but he shouldn’t be anywhere near the main event and I think what he/WWE do with his character will show me how far he will go. I personally think Jake Paul is more charismatic. Cole/Wade did a tremendous job selling the match.

I enjoyed Wyatt’s promo, maybe the best yet and arguably his most stripped back material

 

[shaz619]

What if Uncle Howdy is another Wyatt alter ego? I don’t know who else they could bring in who has a flair for the mic

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I find it amusing that Bret didn’t stop at criticising Hunter even when he had been employed by WWE, Bret never fails to speak his true feelings. He’d certainly come to despise him eventually, but in the late 90’s I don’t think Bret liked him due to the Kliq, am sure there are probably many stories out there about this. He was mad at Vince no doubt, but I feel due to that relation they had he was more willing to bury the hatchet, that’s a good point on the people you care about, that may have also played a part in his relation with Shawn in recent years. Bret barely has a bad word to say about Shawn, it’s generally Goldberg, Goldberg, Goldberg and then Hunter; all for good reason.

That's probably because they've buried the hatchet. That's kinda why he doesn't talk about Vince anymore either unless someone asks him to discuss Montreal. It did find it amusing in the recent WWE Rivals documentary that he and Shawn exchange texts on birthdays and holidays. But to his credit, Shawn has been remorseful about his behavior in the 90s and didn't end Bret's career.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched some of the Crown Jewel matches/segment:

Lesnar/Lashley, decent opener to kick of the show with two heavyweights, it was more of an angle to set up another match and am fine with that because I rather they have a big match in America

Reigns/Paul, this match was fine and while Logan’s natural athleticism played a part, you have to give Roman massive props for carrying the match, he practically has great matches with everyone and to produce this with a rookie is a testament to how special this run has been.

Logan has some good natural tools, but also a good reflection of how low standards have fallen in this era where you are judged on your sports; it says it all when he can do the same stuff others can on the roster in the ring, he does understand pacing but he shouldn’t be anywhere near the main event and I think what he/WWE do with his character will show me how far he will go. I personally think Jake Paul is more charismatic. Cole/Wade did a tremendous job selling the match.

I enjoyed Wyatt’s promo, maybe the best yet and arguably his most stripped back material

Paul is good for what he is. An athletic guy who can do some cool moves and has a basic understanding of how to work like a babyface. For a celebrity, he is great. But that's about it. I thought Roman sold a ton for him in this match, which wasn't really needed. But whatever it is, what it is.

I didn't like Lashley v Lesnar. Thought the finish sucked. Loved the Wyatt promo.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched some of the Crown Jewel matches/segment:

Lesnar/Lashley, decent opener to kick of the show with two heavyweights, it was more of an angle to set up another match and am fine with that because I rather they have a big match in America

Reigns/Paul, this match was fine and while Logan’s natural athleticism played a part, you have to give Roman massive props for carrying the match, he practically has great matches with everyone and to produce this with a rookie is a testament to how special this run has been.

Logan has some good natural tools, but also a good reflection of how low standards have fallen in this era where you are judged on your sports; it says it all when he can do the same stuff others can on the roster in the ring, he does understand pacing but he shouldn’t be anywhere near the main event and I think what he/WWE do with his character will show me how far he will go. I personally think Jake Paul is more charismatic. Cole/Wade did a tremendous job selling the match.

I enjoyed Wyatt’s promo, maybe the best yet and arguably his most stripped back material

Paul is good for what he is. An athletic guy who can do some cool moves and has a basic understanding of how to work like a babyface. For a celebrity, he is great. But that's about it. I thought Roman sold a ton for him in this match, which wasn't really needed. But whatever it is, what it is.

I didn't like Lashley v Lesnar. Thought the finish sucked. Loved the Wyatt promo though.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What if Uncle Howdy is another Wyatt alter ego? I don’t know who else they could bring in who has a flair for the mic

Could be. Does sounds like him.

Feels like it might be based off Barry Windham? Who is his uncle in real life and even had a cowboy gimmick at various points of his career.

 

[shaz619]

Paul is good for what he is. An athletic guy who can do some cool moves and has a basic understanding of how to work like a babyface. For a celebrity, he is great. But that's about it. I thought Roman sold a ton for him in this match, which wasn't really needed. But whatever it is, what it is.

I didn't like Lashley v Lesnar. Thought the finish sucked. Loved the Wyatt promo.

A lot of the matches tbh have a similar feel/vibe, Paul being able to stick to the formats evokes that sentiment, I don’t see how even Meltzer and others are able to give these matches 4* and above. Hopefully War Games is good.

I am really missing Punk already, looking back we took it for granted. We had not seen such creativity in the ring in years

 

[shaz619]

Could be. Does sounds like him.

Feels like it might be based off Barry Windham? Who is his uncle in real life and even had a cowboy gimmick at various points of his career.

That’s interesting, that’s a possibility for sure. Would you rather he have an alter ego or more of a traditional gimmick ?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I find it amusing that Bret didn’t stop at criticising Hunter even when he had been employed by WWE, Bret never fails to speak his true feelings. He’d certainly come to despise him eventually, but in the late 90’s I don’t think Bret liked him due to the Kliq, am sure there are probably many stories out there about this. He was mad at Vince no doubt, but I feel due to that relation they had he was more willing to bury the hatchet, that’s a good point on the people you care about, that may have also played a part in his relation with Shawn in recent years. Bret barely has a bad word to say about Shawn, it’s generally Goldberg, Goldberg, Goldberg and then Hunter; all for good reason.

For people with stroke, it becomes quite difficult to remain quiet on what they are thinking especially anger. The area that gives you control to keep quiet or hold back loses its power. So if Bret is basically saying he has forgiven Shawn and Vince, then it's probably true. That's another reason why he can't keep quiet about Goldberg cause even if when he wants to hold back, he is unable to.

Bret has a medical reason to not be able to hold back his feelings but for Punk, it's simply not trying to improve on that aspect in the name of straight edge something I don't like about him. The Punk subculture has very much gone away and the only thing left about that culture is music these days basically.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

A lot of the matches tbh have a similar feel/vibe, Paul being able to stick to the formats evokes that sentiment, I don’t see how even Meltzer and others are able to give these matches 4* and above. Hopefully War Games is good.

I am really missing Punk already, looking back we took it for granted. We had not seen such creativity in the ring in years

Screw Meltzer honestly. Think Paul is only going to wrestle on the big shows for his mainstream appeal where he will draw his followers. That is probably the only reason they have signed him and generating more and more money has always been WWE's goal. It's a good thing that Paul has actually put in hard yards to actually do basic wrestling correctly. Mic skills is still very much lacking. The only babyface reactions he's got have been for his spots and none for his promos.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I watched some of the Crown Jewel matches/segment:

Lesnar/Lashley, decent opener to kick of the show with two heavyweights, it was more of an angle to set up another match and am fine with that because I rather they have a big match in America

Reigns/Paul, this match was fine and while Logan’s natural athleticism played a part, you have to give Roman massive props for carrying the match, he practically has great matches with everyone and to produce this with a rookie is a testament to how special this run has been.

Logan has some good natural tools, but also a good reflection of how low standards have fallen in this era where you are judged on your sports; it says it all when he can do the same stuff others can on the roster in the ring, he does understand pacing but he shouldn’t be anywhere near the main event and I think what he/WWE do with his character will show me how far he will go. I personally think Jake Paul is more charismatic. Cole/Wade did a tremendous job selling the match.

I enjoyed Wyatt’s promo, maybe the best yet and arguably his most stripped back material

Lesnar Lashley was definitely more of an angle. Lesnar sold so friggin well for Bobby.

The thing I love about Lesnar is regardless of how trashy or good the matches are, it's the feeling of grandiosity that all of his matches are. Like even all his matches since 2012 have been pretty methodical and if you watch them retrospectively, they don't really look that good at all (Cena vs Rollins vs Lesnar, Lesnar vs Taker HIAC, Lesnar vs Punk, Lesnar vs Bryan etc) but whilst we are watching it, they somehow feel really great.

Can see a HIAC or submission match for Lashley/Lesnar to be the feud ender. Would like to see in on SS or Rumble or even Mania.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Paul is good for what he is. An athletic guy who can do some cool moves and has a basic understanding of how to work like a babyface. For a celebrity, he is great. But that's about it. I thought Roman sold a ton for him in this match, which wasn't really needed. But whatever it is, what it is.

I didn't like Lashley v Lesnar. Thought the finish sucked. Loved the Wyatt promo though.

Saw a Matt Hardy tweet saying The Elite were the innocent ones all along and he watched it first hand.
If he saw it first hand, why wasn't he suspended?
Matt has been such a leech in last part of his career. First he had Jeff getting out of his WWE contract to get some spotlight on him to save his dead career ignoring all the implications of Jeff's troubles. And his wife is an even bigger leech than him as she has said multiple times all the broken universe success has been due to Matt and Jeff doesn't deserve any of it. Also said stupid stuff about Jeff being irresponsible during his recent DUI and stuff.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

A lot of the matches tbh have a similar feel/vibe, Paul being able to stick to the formats evokes that sentiment, I don’t see how even Meltzer and others are able to give these matches 4* and above. Hopefully War Games is good.

I am really missing Punk already, looking back we took it for granted. We had not seen such creativity in the ring in years

Yeah agreed. As for Meltzer, he has been overrating alot of WWE matches as well in recent times. I remember he gave 4.75 stars to the MITB match that Big E won last year. His star ratings have nosedived in credibility ever since he started awarding 6-7 stars to his favorite New Japan matches.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s interesting, that’s a possibility for sure. Would you rather he have an alter ego or more of a traditional gimmick ?

Seems like its going to be some kind of alter-ego. Though I wouldn't mind seeing Barry Windham again. Don't know what he looks like these days.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Lesnar Lashley was definitely more of an angle. Lesnar sold so friggin well for Bobby.

The thing I love about Lesnar is regardless of how trashy or good the matches are, it's the feeling of grandiosity that all of his matches are. Like even all his matches since 2012 have been pretty methodical and if you watch them retrospectively, they don't really look that good at all (Cena vs Rollins vs Lesnar, Lesnar vs Taker HIAC, Lesnar vs Punk, Lesnar vs Bryan etc) but whilst we are watching it, they somehow feel really great.

Can see a HIAC or submission match for Lashley/Lesnar to be the feud ender. Would like to see in on SS or Rumble or even Mania.

That's the Paul Heyman effect. He understands perfectly how to book Lesnar matches and, more importantly, Lesnar vs. 'another big guy' matches. By far the best example of this type of match was Lesanr v Goldberg at WrestleMania. This definitely seemed like a match to set up another match, so I can forgive the finish. But the rubber match needs to be a banger now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Saw a Matt Hardy tweet saying The Elite were the innocent ones all along and he watched it first hand.
If he saw it first hand, why wasn't he suspended?
Matt has been such a leech in last part of his career. First he had Jeff getting out of his WWE contract to get some spotlight on him to save his dead career ignoring all the implications of Jeff's troubles. And his wife is an even bigger leech than him as she has said multiple times all the broken universe success has been due to Matt and Jeff doesn't deserve any of it. Also said stupid stuff about Jeff being irresponsible during his recent DUI and stuff.

That doesn't surprise me. He's been friends with the Bucks for years, and he has hated Punk for years because Punk used to be in a relationship with Lita.

As far as his brain is concerned, I feel like it stopped working a decade ago.

 

[shaz619]

Lesnar Lashley was definitely more of an angle. Lesnar sold so friggin well for Bobby.

The thing I love about Lesnar is regardless of how trashy or good the matches are, it's the feeling of grandiosity that all of his matches are. Like even all his matches since 2012 have been pretty methodical and if you watch them retrospectively, they don't really look that good at all (Cena vs Rollins vs Lesnar, Lesnar vs Taker HIAC, Lesnar vs Punk, Lesnar vs Bryan etc) but whilst we are watching it, they somehow feel really great.

Can see a HIAC or submission match for Lashley/Lesnar to be the feud ender. Would like to see in on SS or Rumble or even Mania.

Lesnar is a one of a kind performer, he’s a student of the game and learned from some of the best in history / travelled on the road with them. He loves pro-wrestling, its history and is committed to respecting the history. His MMA success brings a degree of realism to his matches but it along with what a freak athlete he is overshadows how high Brock Lesnar’s in-ring IQ is, sometimes they stick to the usual and other times show us something else which is always by intention, but his individual performances are generally outstanding, I think we take him for granted and he will leave a massive hole when he is not here anymore

 

[shaz619]

That's the Paul Heyman effect. He understands perfectly how to book Lesnar matches and, more importantly, Lesnar vs. 'another big guy' matches. By far the best example of this type of match was Lesanr v Goldberg at WrestleMania. This definitely seemed like a match to set up another match, so I can forgive the finish. But the rubber match needs to be a banger now.

There is a certain formula which Paul enjoys with these guys and it has proven successful but Brock is very creative and has an understanding of how to get over and he has his say probably is held back against his wishes and we’ve seen him upset about this, his psychology is brilliant. He came up with Berg going over in 90 sec which essentially kick started his comeback which was successful in its initial stint

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Lesnar is a one of a kind performer, he’s a student of the game and learned from some of the best in history / travelled on the road with them. He loves pro-wrestling, its history and is committed to respecting the history. His MMA success brings a degree of realism to his matches but it along with what a freak athlete he is overshadows how high Brock Lesnar’s in-ring IQ is, sometimes they stick to the usual and other times show us something else which is always by intention, but his individual performances are generally outstanding, I think we take him for granted and he will leave a massive hole when he is not here anymore

Agreed. I think Brock gets a lot unnecessary flak for being only there for money. He is arguably the best seller in the business right now. And even his spots are perfect and he never misses. Plus he knows what he's worth and cashes in on it. Think there's been times when he hasn't wanted the results going his way like that 2018 Mania mainevent against Roman. He doesn't do no sells or injures wrestlers in his matches. Also heard that he wanted to have good match against Ricochet in KSA instead of a squash.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That doesn't surprise me. He's been friends with the Bucks for years, and he has hated Punk for years because Punk used to be in a relationship with Lita.

As far as his brain is concerned, I feel like it stopped working a decade ago.

As much as I liked the Broken Universe, Matt dragging his wife's family in it was pretty cringe.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There is a certain formula which Paul enjoys with these guys and it has proven successful but Brock is very creative and has an understanding of how to get over and he has his say probably is held back against his wishes and we’ve seen him upset about this, his psychology is brilliant. He came up with Berg going over in 90 sec which essentially kick started his comeback which was successful in its initial stint

I saw a video long time back where Heyman said it was actually Tazz who spotted Lesnar and brought him to Heyman and said a guy like him isn't supposed to move like this.

 

[shaz619]

I saw a video long time back where Heyman said it was actually Tazz who spotted Lesnar and brought him to Heyman and said a guy like him isn't supposed to move like this.

I don’t know who the person was to finally get Lesnar but since he won the NCAA championship, WWE were ruthlessly pursuing him amid the competition, they saw early on that he has the it factor and he was a right specimen. It got to a point where WWE exceeded their development budget to sign him, he was making something like 250k which was 5x more than anyone else. He met Heyman for the first time in OVW. Both Lesnar and Batista had huge ego’s back then / personal distractions, so never really put enough effort; Lesnar knew he was going to be treated like royalty so he had an ego complex, Batista on the other hand was sucking up to Hunter even while OVW; I’d say these guys probably didn’t learn as much from Jim like everyone else because he had a tendency to bring them down to earth and their growth mostly came during their main roster run.

 

[shaz619]

Anyone read this:

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/1...entation-of-the-way-that-he-runs-aew.html?p=1

Perfectly sums up Tony’s so called investigation into the backstage incident involving Punk, Omega and The Bucks etc

 

[shaz619]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Logan doing the buckshot was a dig at Punk on behalf of Hunter. These sort of jibes were not beyond Vince but Hunter has always been the King of them

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Logan doing the buckshot was a dig at Punk on behalf of Hunter. These sort of jibes were not beyond Vince but Hunter has always been the King of them

If they are looking to sign him up, then no. If not, then yes possible.

When I saw it, it didn't remind me of Punk. It was a very well delivered move possibly better than Page's as well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There is a certain formula which Paul enjoys with these guys and it has proven successful but Brock is very creative and has an understanding of how to get over and he has his say probably is held back against his wishes and we’ve seen him upset about this, his psychology is brilliant. He came up with Berg going over in 90 sec which essentially kick started his comeback which was successful in its initial stint

Yeah I don't mean to take anything from Brock either. He is what makes these matches so special and unique. His selling does not get enough credit for me. He, too, is of a dying breed of great sellers. And what makes his selling so great is that because his psychology is on-point and because he is such a beast who is rarely on the back foot, that when he is on the back foot, you're absolutely enthralled.

I don't feel like any other wrestler has that ability to make you take as much notice as Brock does when someone is taking him down.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Anyone read this:

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/1...entation-of-the-way-that-he-runs-aew.html?p=1

Perfectly sums up Tony’s so called investigation into the backstage incident involving Punk, Omega and The Bucks etc

Yup I did. Dave Scherer is one of the last wrestling journalists with any sort of spine. And I almost always find myself agreeing with his opinions.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Logan doing the buckshot was a dig at Punk on behalf of Hunter. These sort of jibes were not beyond Vince but Hunter has always been the King of them

I didn't notice it at the time, but now that you mentioned it, the moment came back to me instantly.

I, too, would not at all be surprised at this knowing Hunter. I mean, just a couple of months ago on SmackDown (after the All Out media scrum) when they were doing that stupid Ronda Rousey getting arrested by the police angle, Michael Cole said on-air that "WWE officials will be dealing with the matter internally because [they] believe in not airing their dirty laundry in public".

 

[shaz619]

I didn't notice it at the time, but now that you mentioned it, the moment came back to me instantly.

I, too, would not at all be surprised at this knowing Hunter. I mean, just a couple of months ago on SmackDown (after the All Out media scrum) when they were doing that stupid Ronda Rousey getting arrested by the police angle, Michael Cole said on-air that "WWE officials will be dealing with the matter internally because [they] believe in not airing their dirty laundry in public".

Oh yes, how could I forget that one. Remember when they re-enacted Punk’s loss to Mickey Gall on Smackdown as well. Vince isn’t around anymore and it is confirming my suspicions on the guy who is extremely petty and insecure.

Also, am all for, ok, maybe Theory as a main eventer is not in our plans right now but to use Stephanie’s special sizzors to cut the guys balls on live TV is a step too far. He made his point to Vince already but I am concerned his ego is getting in the way of shrewd booking sooner than expected.

 

[shaz619]

If they are looking to sign him up, then no. If not, then yes possible.

When I saw it, it didn't remind me of Punk. It was a very well delivered move possibly better than Page's as well.

I didn’t think of it at first but the thought has grown on me, this is Hunter 101

 

[shaz619]

Yup I did. Dave Scherer is one of the last wrestling journalists with any sort of spine. And I almost always find myself agreeing with his opinions.

Last great wrestling site left sadly, I use to love 411 but it’s not the same without Larry

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Logan doing the buckshot was a dig at Punk on behalf of Hunter. These sort of jibes were not beyond Vince but Hunter has always been the King of them

Hunter is the king of kings of passive-aggressive digs.

People always talk about how AEW keeps bringing up WWE, and how minor league that makes them look. I'm sure there's a highlight reel somewhere of every time AEW or AEW wrestlers were mentioned on WWE TV in a completely childish and passive-aggressive way....instances where I'm 99% sure that HHH was the one pushing for them to be said because a) Vince never gave a s**t about AEW, took them seriously or probably ever even watched their show and b) because Hunter is genuinely hurt that NXT was beaten by AEW in the ratings.

Atleast when Punk brought up WWE during his promos with MJF, or when Danielson brought it up during his feud with Page, it felt organic and had something to do with his promo. As opposed to Edge telling The Miz that "people on other shows talked about him" which was pure cringe.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Last great wrestling site left sadly, I use to love 411 but it’s not the same without Larry

Yup. 411 hasn't been great in a while. I read WrestlingINC for some interviews and listen to Keller from time to time for some inside scoops that aren't shrouded in B.S, but other than that, it's an absolute wasteland out there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Oh yes, how could I forget that one. Remember when they re-enacted Punk’s loss to Mickey Gall on Smackdown as well. Vince isn’t around anymore and it is confirming my suspicions on the guy who is extremely petty and insecure.

Also, am all for, ok, maybe Theory as a main eventer is not in our plans right now but to use Stephanie’s special sizzors to cut the guys balls on live TV is a step too far. He made his point to Vince already but I am concerned his ego is getting in the way of shrewd booking sooner than expected.

I actually didn't see that. But again, hardly surprised.

Yet to see RAW. But the entire idea sounded so bad to me. I don't think Theory is in any way ready to be a main-eventer. But there are other ways to take a briefcase off a guy without burying him six feet under.

Wrestling in general has been so mediocre recently. Dynamite last week was absolute dogs**t. Crown Jewel was a glorified house-show. RAW hasn't been good for months and SmackDown barring a Bray Wyatt promo, a Bloodline segment and a good match every other week, tends to be largely mediocre.

Survivor Series is too far away, so here's hoping Full Gear doesn't disappoint.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Hunter is the king of kings of passive-aggressive digs.

People always talk about how AEW keeps bringing up WWE, and how minor league that makes them look. I'm sure there's a highlight reel somewhere of every time AEW or AEW wrestlers were mentioned on WWE TV in a completely childish and passive-aggressive way....instances where I'm 99% sure that HHH was the one pushing for them to be said because a) Vince never gave a s**t about AEW, took them seriously or probably ever even watched their show and b) because Hunter is genuinely hurt that NXT was beaten by AEW in the ratings.

Atleast when Punk brought up WWE during his promos with MJF, or when Danielson brought it up during his feud with Page, it felt organic and had something to do with his promo. As opposed to Edge telling The Miz that "people on other shows talked about him" which was pure cringe.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is actually the interview I was basing my comments off. What this clip is missing though is the moment Helwani asked him about AEW beating NXT in the ratings, and you could just see the insecurity come up on Hunter's face "yeah they beat our developmental brand...big deal".

If it was Vince saying that, that'd be one thing, and I'd buy it. Not the same when the guy who ran NXT for more than a decade says it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw did you see Jericho wrestling Colt Cabana on Dynamite? If there was any doubt regarding Jericho completely losing his mind, I don't think there should be anymore.

I always pegged Tony to be an idiot. But this is a new bar even for him. Besides the fact that it was classless and disrespectful...and went against what Tony said in the media scrum, it could very easily cause Punk to initiate legal action against AEW.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hunter is the king of kings of passive-aggressive digs.

People always talk about how AEW keeps bringing up WWE, and how minor league that makes them look. I'm sure there's a highlight reel somewhere of every time AEW or AEW wrestlers were mentioned on WWE TV in a completely childish and passive-aggressive way....instances where I'm 99% sure that HHH was the one pushing for them to be said because a) Vince never gave a s**t about AEW, took them seriously or probably ever even watched their show and b) because Hunter is genuinely hurt that NXT was beaten by AEW in the ratings.

Atleast when Punk brought up WWE during his promos with MJF, or when Danielson brought it up during his feud with Page, it felt organic and had something to do with his promo. As opposed to Edge telling The Miz that "people on other shows talked about him" which was pure cringe.

I do think Vince didn't like AEW or its presence but it turned out to be not that big as was earlier thought to be. If Vince never knew about it, he wouldn't have seen money in The American Nightmare version of Cody.

Hunter definitely is a petty guy, think no one would disagree to that.

Think the only time WWE reference was done in AEW in a positive light has been Bryan's referencing Mania or WWE, but off air even he said i know you guys are going to boo me for it knowing the tribal and fickle behavior of diehards.

Nothings more cringe than Britt's consistent references which is basically her every promo. She thinks it makes her look witty.

While MJF never took Cena's or Trips' name on air, Punk called him a less famous Miz which IMO was unfair to Miz cause if anything getting compared to him should be a complement for upcomers considering the decorated career he's had. It wasn't like he was comparing him to viscera or giant gonzalez or something.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw did you see Jericho wrestling Colt Cabana on Dynamite? If there was any doubt regarding Jericho completely losing his mind, I don't think there should be anymore.

I always pegged Tony to be an idiot. But this is a new bar even for him. Besides the fact that it was classless and disrespectful...and went against what Tony said in the media scrum, it could very easily cause Punk to initiate legal action against AEW.

That was similar to what WWE were doing exploiting Jeff's alcohol troubles in storyline. Very distasteful.
Saw a headline saying it was Tony's idea even though it was pathetic regardless who did that.

Plus all that for a no name like Cabana who hasn't done zilch for the business. He wasn't even a known name till the pipebomb.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw did you see Jericho wrestling Colt Cabana on Dynamite? If there was any doubt regarding Jericho completely losing his mind, I don't think there should be anymore.

I always pegged Tony to be an idiot. But this is a new bar even for him. Besides the fact that it was classless and disrespectful...and went against what Tony said in the media scrum, it could very easily cause Punk to initiate legal action against AEW.

AEW has just left such a sour taste in my mouth, I read about that. The whole shtick just shows Tony is a guy who is booking for the social media fan base and elite, that’s his market and Jericho exploits his ineptness

 

[shaz619]

Guys even Damien Sandow had a much better / dramatic cash in then Theory!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I do think Vince didn't like AEW or its presence but it turned out to be not that big as was earlier thought to be. If Vince never knew about it, he wouldn't have seen money in The American Nightmare version of Cody.

Hunter definitely is a petty guy, think no one would disagree to that.

Think the only time WWE reference was done in AEW in a positive light has been Bryan's referencing Mania or WWE, but off air even he said i know you guys are going to boo me for it knowing the tribal and fickle behavior of diehards.

Nothings more cringe than Britt's consistent references which is basically her every promo. She thinks it makes her look witty.

While MJF never took Cena's or Trips' name on air, Punk called him a less famous Miz which IMO was unfair to Miz cause if anything getting compared to him should be a complement for upcomers considering the decorated career he's had. It wasn't like he was comparing him to viscera or giant gonzalez or something.

I don't agree. I thought Punk's comment was perfectly worded because in one sentence he was simultaneously able to put over The Miz and bury him. He put him over in the sense that he is a poster-boy top heel for PG era WWE. And he buried him in the sense that, well, he is The Miz. And to the AEW fans in particular, that sentiment echoed perfectly.

The Miz is by no means terrible. But no matter how many years he has in the business, at the end of the day, he is not someone who will be taken seriously by the vast majority of hardcore wrestling fans. Because as Bryan once said (or maybe it was Cornette) he comes across as someone trying to play wrestler, rather than an actual wrestler.

Besides the fact that his wrestling is simply not good, he is always involved in the goofy, comic relief segments of the show that are mostly terrible. And it's been like that for years now. Nothing about him feels authentic or true to life. The guy feels like a sketch-comedy character come to life, rather than a guy I should take seriously.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

AEW has just left such a sour taste in my mouth, I read about that. The whole shtick just shows Tony is a guy who is booking for the social media fan base and elite, that’s his market and Jericho exploits his ineptness

Well, Jericho is Tony's friend. And you know how Tony feels about his friends.

The funniest thing about this entire deal is that this match made their show drop 40,000+ viewers. But I guess that's okay because the match generated significant buzz on wrestling twitter.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That was similar to what WWE were doing exploiting Jeff's alcohol troubles in storyline. Very distasteful.
Saw a headline saying it was Tony's idea even though it was pathetic regardless who did that.

Plus all that for a no name like Cabana who hasn't done zilch for the business. He wasn't even a known name till the pipebomb.

I dunno if it's similar to that. Because that was a case of them bringing real-life issues of a wrestler into a storyline. But I agree that it's incredibly distasteful and smacks of someone with the mental competence of a child.

More importantly, though, as Scherer said in his blog, it's in the wheelhouse of getting fired on your wedding day for a guy like Punk.

 

[shaz619]

Guys even Damien Sandow had a much better / dramatic cash in then Theory!

On this note, Theory has lost 17 out of his 19 matches since Huntdeep took over and cashing in and losing on a mid card belt should remove all doubt about what has been done here, this is pathetic to say the least

 

[shaz619]

Well, Jericho is Tony's friend. And you know how Tony feels about his friends.

The funniest thing about this entire deal is that this match made their show drop 40,000+ viewers. But I guess that's okay because the match generated significant buzz on wrestling twitter.

Social media doing a circle jerk over it and how Colt can work again when Tony barely used him before Punk was signed, it’s unreal the shear ignorance and the viewership drop should emphasise that even more. I tune in for MJF every now and then but I been off their program, to be fair not watched much E either besides a few matches

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On this note, Theory has lost 17 out of his 19 matches since Huntdeep took over and cashing in and losing on a mid card belt should remove all doubt about what has been done here, this is pathetic to say the least

LMAO this burial by Hunter has exceeded all burials that he dished out during his reign of terror. Even 2004 Randy Orton got nothing on Theory who looks like an absolute jobber ever since Vince left.

 

[shaz619]

LMAO this burial by Hunter has exceeded all burials that he dished out during his reign of terror. Even 2004 Randy Orton got nothing on Theory who looks like an absolute jobber ever since Vince left.

I am concerned for Cody.

His pettiness has no limit, Huntdeep is so easily rattled

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I am concerned for Cody.

His pettiness has no limit, Huntdeep is so easily rattled

Would be a shame if Cody's run takes a hit which seems very possible now.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Vince, think no one was better than making top guys in pro wrestling.

It's weird because both Theory and Drew have worked extensively in NXT and are supposed to be Trips' guys.

Theory is much better than Kross.

 

[shaz619]

Would be a shame if Cody's run takes a hit which seems very possible now.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Vince, think no one was better than making top guys in pro wrestling.

It's weird because both Theory and Drew have worked extensively in NXT and are supposed to be Trips' guys.

Theory is much better than Kross.

Cody is going to be jobbing in the mid card. Huntdeep is mainly protective of his NXT class and the nepotism is there to be seen. It is worrying given Cody’s comment in the past but am hoping the bending over he was doing for Hunter when he came back may yet save him.

Unfortunately for Theory, he never worked long enough with Hunter or kiss his behind like the rest and when you add in how he was Vinces personal project, Huntdeep will make sure he never gets over which is so petty on his side because the guy has star quality.

Yes, he always had an eye for the top guy, maybe he pushed them the wrong way or too hard too soon, but he always had that knack.

It doesn’t matter how hard he pushes Kross, he will always be Marc Mero’d because of how hot Scarlett is

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am concerned for Cody.

His pettiness has no limit, Huntdeep is so easily rattled

Someone mentioned in a podcast I was listening to the other day, that Hunter is someone who likes to get his revenge. And though he may present a different public image, that isn't exactly true. This is why Punk telling him that a WrestleMania 30 match with him wasn't something Punk was especially excited about feels like something he might not forget.

With Cody I'm still on the fence. On one hand, you cannot put it past Hunter to bury Cody. But on the other hand, with the kind of run Cody has had ever since he stepped back into a WWE ring...I mean, you would have to be remarkably stupid, as a businessman to bury him. Especially when the dearth of big name stars in WWE is as evident as it is now and considering the ATG performance that Cody went out on at Hell in A Cell.

I mean, he is probably going to be the hottest babyface in the company when he returns. And I don't know how Hunter could bury him (even if he wanted to) without the fans turning on him rabidly.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Finally caught up with the matches from Crown Jewel I hadn't seen and RAW. Some brief thoughts...


Kross v McIntryre: Probably one of the dumbest matches I have seen in a long, long time. An absolute braindead match from a psychology standpoint. I already hate WWE Steel Cage matches because they defeat the purpose of a Steel Cage match by providing the competitors with the option to escape from the top of the cage or the door. This almost always leads to contrived spots where guys are crawling to the door and trying to escape from the top (eventhough they can just walk out the door) but this one was especially stupid because after weeks and weeks of these two guys being involved in a supposed blood feud where Drew even tried attempted murder by smashing his car into Kross's; Drew just decides that he'd rather escape the cage than beat the ever-living s**t out of his Kross inside a cage where Scarlett is taken out of the equation.

Judgement Day v OC: Pretty okay match that you would see on RAW on any given week. I liked AJ and Balor's work here. Dominik was not bad as a chicken**t heel and is improving significantly day by day. His character work in particular has improved massively ever since he turned heel and joined this group. Gallows and Anderson are arguably two of the most MID guys on the WWE roster. There is absolutely nothing special about them or their work, and they bring absolutely zilch to the table.

Omos v Strowman: For what this was, this was no bad. I thought it probably should have been a minute or two shorter. But for a match between two huge dudes, it was enjoyable. Omos has probably never looked as good as he did here. And I think that if you want to get some mileage out of him, you have to book him in squash matches and hoss fights against other big guys. You simply cannot put him in proper wrestling matches because he will be badly exposed. Side note: I was actually surprised at how much taller Omos was in comparison to Strowman, who is like 6'8 himself.

RAW was utter garbage. Probably one of the worst RAW episodes of the year. The Theory cash-in was by-far the worst thing on the show, and made Theory look like an utter geek. I'm utterly confused if Seth Rollins is suddenly a babyface now or not. All in all, a pretty forgettable week of wrestling.

 

[shaz619]

Someone mentioned in a podcast I was listening to the other day, that Hunter is someone who likes to get his revenge. And though he may present a different public image, that isn't exactly true. This is why Punk telling him that a WrestleMania 30 match with him wasn't something Punk was especially excited about feels like something he might not forget.

With Cody I'm still on the fence. On one hand, you cannot put it past Hunter to bury Cody. But on the other hand, with the kind of run Cody has had ever since he stepped back into a WWE ring...I mean, you would have to be remarkably stupid, as a businessman to bury him. Especially when the dearth of big name stars in WWE is as evident as it is now and considering the ATG performance that Cody went out on at Hell in A Cell.

I mean, he is probably going to be the hottest babyface in the company when he returns. And I don't know how Hunter could bury him (even if he wanted to) without the fans turning on him rabidly.

Extremely vindictive, he gets rattled so easily and doesn’t forget. On that match with Hunter at WM 30, on paper I don’t think it was awful if Punk was going over and if he won with the pepsi plunge off the top rope it would have been a decent WM moment but at the same time, I see Punk’s point, he kind of brushed Hunter aside as a 4/10 over rated worker who isn’t mania main event level, last year him working with Taker healed some of his ambitions to top the card but a year later, he didn’t want to settle for anything less and behind the scenes the relationship between the two wasn’t great, Hunter repeatedly attempted to sabotage his title run to and being petty with things like trying to get 2k to put Sheamus on the cover. Biggest difference between him and Vince is that Vince is more likely to put business first and historically made up with most of his enemies.

Hunter is still bitter that AEW beat NXT, man is so insecure like I actually loved the black and gold era, so what if AEW had more viewers, but he can’t get over it. Which is why I feel Cody’s comments will be at the back of his mind and with the control he has, I wouldn’t be shocked if Cody suffers, however Cody’s diplomacy might save him

 

[shaz619]

Finally caught up with the matches from Crown Jewel I hadn't seen and RAW. Some brief thoughts...


Kross v McIntryre: Probably one of the dumbest matches I have seen in a long, long time. An absolute braindead match from a psychology standpoint. I already hate WWE Steel Cage matches because they defeat the purpose of a Steel Cage match by providing the competitors with the option to escape from the top of the cage or the door. This almost always leads to contrived spots where guys are crawling to the door and trying to escape from the top (eventhough they can just walk out the door) but this one was especially stupid because after weeks and weeks of these two guys being involved in a supposed blood feud where Drew even tried attempted murder by smashing his car into Kross's; Drew just decides that he'd rather escape the cage than beat the ever-living s**t out of his Kross inside a cage where Scarlett is taken out of the equation.

Judgement Day v OC: Pretty okay match that you would see on RAW on any given week. I liked AJ and Balor's work here. Dominik was not bad as a chicken**t heel and is improving significantly day by day. His character work in particular has improved massively ever since he turned heel and joined this group. Gallows and Anderson are arguably two of the most MID guys on the WWE roster. There is absolutely nothing special about them or their work, and they bring absolutely zilch to the table.

Omos v Strowman: For what this was, this was no bad. I thought it probably should have been a minute or two shorter. But for a match between two huge dudes, it was enjoyable. Omos has probably never looked as good as he did here. And I think that if you want to get some mileage out of him, you have to book him in squash matches and hoss fights against other big guys. You simply cannot put him in proper wrestling matches because he will be badly exposed. Side note: I was actually surprised at how much taller Omos was in comparison to Strowman, who is like 6'8 himself.

RAW was utter garbage. Probably one of the worst RAW episodes of the year. The Theory cash-in was by-far the worst thing on the show, and made Theory look like an utter geek. I'm utterly confused if Seth Rollins is suddenly a babyface now or not. All in all, a pretty forgettable week of wrestling.

I didn’t even watch the other matches, I was interested to see what happened in Omos/Braun but didn’t get around to it. Am more interested in Scarlett then Kross as a star. WWE has been rubbish, only interesting this is The Bloodline and Bray Wyatt, speaking of which did you catch his promo at Crown Jewel?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn’t even watch the other matches, I was interested to see what happened in Omos/Braun but didn’t get around to it. Am more interested in Scarlett then Kross as a star. WWE has been rubbish, only interesting this is The Bloodline and Bray Wyatt, speaking of which did you catch his promo at Crown Jewel?

I love Scarlett. Besides being smoking hot, she has a real personality and presence that she can get across just by her facial expressions. I do think though that she and Kross come hand in hand, considering both are married in real life. Re: Kross, I know alot of people are not big fans of him or his in-ring work, but personally speaking, I like the guy and think he has the potential to be a good upper card heel. He's one of those guys whose presentation, promos and look is far more integral to the final product than his in-ring work, but that's fine. Not every guy has to be the second coming of Kurt Angle.

I loved Bray's promo. But I feel like I am more than ready now to see this storyline progress in a meaningful way, instead of Bray coming out every week and cutting these awesome and vague promos until he is interrupted by someone in a mask.

 

[shaz619]

I love Scarlett. Besides being smoking hot, she has a real personality and presence that she can get across just by her facial expressions. I do think though that she and Kross come hand in hand, considering both are married in real life. Re: Kross, I know alot of people are not big fans of him or his in-ring work, but personally speaking, I like the guy and think he has the potential to be a good upper card heel. He's one of those guys whose presentation, promos and look is far more integral to the final product than his in-ring work, but that's fine. Not every guy has to be the second coming of Kurt Angle.

I loved Bray's promo. But I feel like I am more than ready now to see this storyline progress in a meaningful way, instead of Bray coming out every week and cutting these awesome and vague promos until he is interrupted by someone in a mask.

I generally tend to prioritise a character, their aura/charisma and if they can work it’s a bonus, I think we have many good workers and if one puts in the work, it can be improved. But if you are lacking in charisma, you have to work harder in the ring and often it leads to more mistakes and matches which lack psychology. With Kross, his presentation is great but he is not someone who am going out of my way to see talk, I think compared to those around the same spot, he lacks charisma and his promos are one dimensional, they are a bit similar in structure to the material hunter use to recycle weekly during his reign of terror. If we look at someone like MJF, he wasn’t a special worked to begin with, but he forced you to tune in because he is such a good story teller and later his ring work began to improve to. With so much wrestling on these days, it is hard to spare a minute for Kross and that’s me not criticising his ring work or anything but like why tune into it to begin with, it’s a step down for someone like Drew to be working with this guy.

 

[shaz619]

I love Scarlett. Besides being smoking hot, she has a real personality and presence that she can get across just by her facial expressions. I do think though that she and Kross come hand in hand, considering both are married in real life. Re: Kross, I know alot of people are not big fans of him or his in-ring work, but personally speaking, I like the guy and think he has the potential to be a good upper card heel. He's one of those guys whose presentation, promos and look is far more integral to the final product than his in-ring work, but that's fine. Not every guy has to be the second coming of Kurt Angle.

I loved Bray's promo. But I feel like I am more than ready now to see this storyline progress in a meaningful way, instead of Bray coming out every week and cutting these awesome and vague promos until he is interrupted by someone in a mask.

I agree we need to move on now and get to the meat with Bray, maybe they will have something big planned at War Games, we need more clarity on the obstacle he needs to overcome in this feud because I gather he is a face now right unless we’ve got this completely wrong

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Extremely vindictive, he gets rattled so easily and doesn’t forget. On that match with Hunter at WM 30, on paper I don’t think it was awful if Punk was going over and if he won with the pepsi plunge off the top rope it would have been a decent WM moment but at the same time, I see Punk’s point, he kind of brushed Hunter aside as a 4/10 over rated worker who isn’t mania main event level, last year him working with Taker healed some of his ambitions to top the card but a year later, he didn’t want to settle for anything less and behind the scenes the relationship between the two wasn’t great, Hunter repeatedly attempted to sabotage his title run to and being petty with things like trying to get 2k to put Sheamus on the cover. Biggest difference between him and Vince is that Vince is more likely to put business first and historically made up with most of his enemies.

Hunter is still bitter that AEW beat NXT, man is so insecure like I actually loved the black and gold era, so what if AEW had more viewers, but he can’t get over it. Which is why I feel Cody’s comments will be at the back of his mind and with the control he has, I wouldn’t be shocked if Cody suffers, however Cody’s diplomacy might save him

Yeah Cody's diplomatic attitude might save him. And that's one of the things that might actually give him some longevity in this business too. Even when he left AEW he didn't say anything bad about The Elite, who themselves left no stone unturned in taking thinly veiled shots at Cody.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I generally tend to prioritise a character, their aura/charisma and if they can work it’s a bonus, I think we have many good workers and if one puts in the work, it can be improved. But if you are lacking in charisma, you have to work harder in the ring and often it leads to more mistakes and matches which lack psychology. With Kross, his presentation is great but he is not someone who am going out of my way to see talk, I think compared to those around the same spot, he lacks charisma and his promos are one dimensional, they are a bit similar in structure to the material hunter use to recycle weekly during his reign of terror. If we look at someone like MJF, he wasn’t a special worked to begin with, but he forced you to tune in because he is such a good story teller and later his ring work began to improve to. With so much wrestling on these days, it is hard to spare a minute for Kross and that’s me not criticising his ring work or anything but like why tune into it to begin with, it’s a step down for someone like Drew to be working with this guy.

I mean, that's a fair point. He's not exactly a great promo either. But that said, you've got to try and create new stars too. And Kross atleast has certain positives that you expect from a top guy. He's not highly developed, but he's not as green as someone like Theory either. There's something to work with there that you can mold into something more

 

[shaz619]

I mean, that's a fair point. He's not exactly a great promo either. But that said, you've got to try and create new stars too. And Kross atleast has certain positives that you expect from a top guy. He's not highly developed, but he's not as green as someone like Theory either. There's something to work with there that you can mold into something more

I see more upside with Theory then Kross who I doubt is going to be the next “guy” , but Kross is like Hunter’s personal project so we will see what happens, I see him in the mould of a Chinese Samoa Joe right now, Kross is getting the old monster heel push, once the novelty wears off and he is defeated a few times, then the biggest test of his career will come. For a guy like Joe, it worked because of his innovative offence and on the mic he was outstanding, even though during that run in ROH/TNA the mic side of things were not emphasises as much, less was more and he had the aura of a killer, does Kross ouse the same quality? maybe I will be wrong on him but right now not sure

 

[shaz619]

Yeah Cody's diplomatic attitude might save him. And that's one of the things that might actually give him some longevity in this business too. Even when he left AEW he didn't say anything bad about The Elite, who themselves left no stone unturned in taking thinly veiled shots at Cody.

I don’t see Cody as a guy to rant but at the same time am not sure, but Tony Khan may have got him to sign an NDA? Don’t know, JC might have mentioned it

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don’t see Cody as a guy to rant but at the same time am not sure, but Tony Khan may have got him to sign an NDA? Don’t know, JC might have mentioned it

He probably did but I'm guessing that only covers the interactions between Cody and TK, not Cody and The Elite. Besides that, Cody also mentioned in an interview that he and TK agreed to not talk badly about one another.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I see more upside with Theory then Kross who I doubt is going to be the next “guy” , but Kross is like Hunter’s personal project so we will see what happens, I see him in the mould of a Chinese Samoa Joe right now, Kross is getting the old monster heel push, once the novelty wears off and he is defeated a few times, then the biggest test of his career will come. For a guy like Joe, it worked because of his innovative offence and on the mic he was outstanding, even though during that run in ROH/TNA the mic side of things were not emphasises as much, less was more and he had the aura of a killer, does Kross ouse the same quality? maybe I will be wrong on him but right now not sure

In the long-term, Theory definitely has more upside. But if you look at WWE right now there is a serious dearth of major stars or guys who you can take seriously in a main-event spot. Right now ofcourse, it's too early to say much of anything about Kross, but I'll say that he definitely incites more interest in me than a number of guys who have been in that upper midcard/main-event spot in the company. Let's see how he does.

 

[shaz619]

In the long-term, Theory definitely has more upside. But if you look at WWE right now there is a serious dearth of major stars or guys who you can take seriously in a main-event spot. Right now ofcourse, it's too early to say much of anything about Kross, but I'll say that he definitely incites more interest in me than a number of guys who have been in that upper midcard/main-event spot in the company. Let's see how he does.

Is there a part of you that wants to see Scarlett powerbomb KK

 

[shaz619]

He probably did but I'm guessing that only covers the interactions between Cody and TK, not Cody and The Elite. Besides that, Cody also mentioned in an interview that he and TK agreed to not talk badly about one another.

The Bucks posted an image of them with Cody not long ago. I don’t know what that meant but from what I gathered, the sentiment to me was that Cody left due to the backstage landscape. Perhaps the relations were cordial but he left politely because he saw the level of unprofessionalism

 

[BunnyRabbit]

In the long-term, Theory definitely has more upside. But if you look at WWE right now there is a serious dearth of major stars or guys who you can take seriously in a main-event spot. Right now ofcourse, it's too early to say much of anything about Kross, but I'll say that he definitely incites more interest in me than a number of guys who have been in that upper midcard/main-event spot in the company. Let's see how he does.

Kross looks in a relatively poor shape than what he used to be in NXT. He looks floppy and his hair is hilarious to look at 5 mins into a match.

Kross simply can't wrestle what you need from a top carder. Neither is he that good on mic. He was the most heavily pushed guy in NXT. He has good presentation but he is just pretty hard to buy into as one of the top guys. Imagine him feuding with someone like Roman or Rollins, they'd be running circles around him.

I'd rather like him to feud with the likes of Braun and Omos.

I think Scarlett is a very good in ring worker. She had pretty good matches in TNA and indies. I'd say she's probably more talented than Kross. Kross seems like a great guy and a locker room leader and someone people like to share the locker room with. Similar to Roman, but Roman has improved his wrestling, mic skills massively in last 5 6 years.