The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[BunnyRabbit]

Finally caught up with the matches from Crown Jewel I hadn't seen and RAW. Some brief thoughts...


Kross v McIntryre: Probably one of the dumbest matches I have seen in a long, long time. An absolute braindead match from a psychology standpoint. I already hate WWE Steel Cage matches because they defeat the purpose of a Steel Cage match by providing the competitors with the option to escape from the top of the cage or the door. This almost always leads to contrived spots where guys are crawling to the door and trying to escape from the top (eventhough they can just walk out the door) but this one was especially stupid because after weeks and weeks of these two guys being involved in a supposed blood feud where Drew even tried attempted murder by smashing his car into Kross's; Drew just decides that he'd rather escape the cage than beat the ever-living s**t out of his Kross inside a cage where Scarlett is taken out of the equation.

Judgement Day v OC: Pretty okay match that you would see on RAW on any given week. I liked AJ and Balor's work here. Dominik was not bad as a chicken**t heel and is improving significantly day by day. His character work in particular has improved massively ever since he turned heel and joined this group. Gallows and Anderson are arguably two of the most MID guys on the WWE roster. There is absolutely nothing special about them or their work, and they bring absolutely zilch to the table.

Omos v Strowman: For what this was, this was no bad. I thought it probably should have been a minute or two shorter. But for a match between two huge dudes, it was enjoyable. Omos has probably never looked as good as he did here. And I think that if you want to get some mileage out of him, you have to book him in squash matches and hoss fights against other big guys. You simply cannot put him in proper wrestling matches because he will be badly exposed. Side note: I was actually surprised at how much taller Omos was in comparison to Strowman, who is like 6'8 himself.

RAW was utter garbage. Probably one of the worst RAW episodes of the year. The Theory cash-in was by-far the worst thing on the show, and made Theory look like an utter geek. I'm utterly confused if Seth Rollins is suddenly a babyface now or not. All in all, a pretty forgettable week of wrestling.

Hunter's love affair with indie guys is becoming a little too formulaic. Like what's the point of bringing Mia Yim back to feud with Rhea. She isn't even that good to begin with. Tegan Nox would have been better as she can wrestle well.

Nikki Cross is getting literally no reactions which is funny. And the thing is she and Liv are both playing the same gimmick except the crowd cares more for Liv.

 

[shaz619]

I saw a clip of CM Punk back doing colour for some MMA organisation, he literally gives no eff's ) was smiling, happy and even made an interesting remark on the backstage stuff, it was pretty hilarious. Made my day LOL check it out, it's on social media my dawg's

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Hunter's love affair with indie guys is becoming a little too formulaic. Like what's the point of bringing Mia Yim back to feud with Rhea. She isn't even that good to begin with. Tegan Nox would have been better as she can wrestle well.

Nikki Cross is getting literally no reactions which is funny. And the thing is she and Liv are both playing the same gimmick except the crowd cares more for Liv.

Even more than indie guys it seems like he is intent on protecting his NXT guys and girls.

Agree completely. I hate Nikki Cross. She tries so hard to look like a crazy person...it just comes off as fake.

WWE has some special female talents on their roster. But Mia Yim, Nikki Cross, Teagen Nox...Sarah Logan. They ain't special at all.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I saw a clip of CM Punk back doing colour for some MMA organisation, he literally gives no eff's ) was smiling, happy and even made an interesting remark on the backstage stuff, it was pretty hilarious. Made my day LOL check it out, it's on social media my dawg's

LOL I'll check this out.

Btw did you check Sami Zayn's tweet about Cornette? I swear, I laughed my a** off

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Geek out moment for me

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well, that won't be hard to do. As soon as Reigns beats Logan Paul you have him do a segment on SmackDown where he boasts about how The Bloodline is ruling the roost and are on-top of WWE. That's a good enough entry point for Kevin Owens and/or Drew McIntryre to interrupt him and begin settling up that WarGames match.

They could do Bloodline v Brawling Brutes + McIntyre for WarGames as well.

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well boys, can't say I didn't told ya so.

I think H should do himself a favor and just hand the book over to me.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well boys, can't say I didn't told ya so.

I think H should do himself a favor and just hand the book over to me.

Yup you were right. I really don't want to see Drew taking another pin.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Even more than indie guys it seems like he is intent on protecting his NXT guys and girls.

Agree completely. I hate Nikki Cross. She tries so hard to look like a crazy person...it just comes off as fake.

WWE has some special female talents on their roster. But Mia Yim, Nikki Cross, Teagen Nox...Sarah Logan. They ain't special at all.

I think Io Shirai, Dakota Kai, Emma and Tegan Nox can wrestle well. Sarah Logan, Yim, Lacey, Shotzi, Bfab, Nikki etc can't. Liv isn't a good wrestler either but she is still over with the audience for some reason.

After the 4 nxt original females, Bianca, Io, Asuka, Rhea etc are top tier talent.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Even after being booked like a chump, Drew continues to get the crowd pumping and what they do is, they have him do a face off with Solo Sikoa who isn't even over yet.

Don't know how many stars have been able to survive such stupid booking at been able to be still over. Even Finn had stopped getting pops in his face run by the end.

Bryan was one. Jeff Hardy another. Hopefully Drew will push through it as well.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Well boys, can't say I didn't told ya so.

I think H should do himself a favor and just hand the book over to me.

Nice and I would defo support that, the less of Hunter the better I wonder what JC made of Theory’s burial

 

[shaz619]

LOL I'll check this out.

Btw did you check Sami Zayn's tweet about Cornette? I swear, I laughed my a** off

That was epic lol from JC’s comment, to Zayn’s reaction to JC’s subsequent reaction is a better love story then twilight

It would appear Sami was off TV due to a death in his family sadly

 

[shaz619]

Geek out moment for me

View attachment 117810

Wow, I am excited for the battles on the mic alone

 

[shaz619]

Even after being booked like a chump, Drew continues to get the crowd pumping and what they do is, they have him do a face off with Solo Sikoa who isn't even over yet.

Don't know how many stars have been able to survive such stupid booking at been able to be still over. Even Finn had stopped getting pops in his face run by the end.

Bryan was one. Jeff Hardy another. Hopefully Drew will push through it as well.

The fans were emotionally invested in Drew and despite the horrid booking at times, you have to admit they are also fickle when you look at how they treated his championship run

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Io Shirai, Dakota Kai, Emma and Tegan Nox can wrestle well. Sarah Logan, Yim, Lacey, Shotzi, Bfab, Nikki etc can't. Liv isn't a good wrestler either but she is still over with the audience for some reason.

After the 4 nxt original females, Bianca, Io, Asuka, Rhea etc are top tier talent.

Hard to think of a female wrestling talent in the business with more upside than Rhea Ripley. She has all the tools in the ring and on the mic, looks like an absolute beast physically and similar to MJF, is very advanced for her young age.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even after being booked like a chump, Drew continues to get the crowd pumping and what they do is, they have him do a face off with Solo Sikoa who isn't even over yet.

Don't know how many stars have been able to survive such stupid booking at been able to be still over. Even Finn had stopped getting pops in his face run by the end.

Bryan was one. Jeff Hardy another. Hopefully Drew will push through it as well.

Ever since Bryan's 2014 rise to the top/title run, WWE somehow got it through their thick heads that the best way to get a babyface over is to beat him to powder, and then right as you are about to scatter his ashes, you start giving them something. They are not sharp enough to know that Bryan was a special talent who got over inspite of the bad booking.

I can't blame Drew's booking too much on Hunter because the UK match with Roman was made long before he even took charge. But now I'm interested to see how he books him. I'm willing to look past the Kross feud because they were bringing in a new guy that they wanted to get over straightaway and be taken seriously by the crowd. And a for that you need a guy of Drew's caliber to lend credibility to someone like Kross.

But now, Drew's booking has to improve. H once called Roman v Drew, the 'Flair v Hogan' of this generation. A rivalry between two of the biggest stars of this generation that they would revisit quite a few times down the line. Let's see if he actually lives up to what he has says.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That was epic lol from JC’s comment, to Zayn’s reaction to JC’s subsequent reaction is a better love story then twilight

It would appear Sami was off TV due to a death in his family sadly

All we need is Sami putting on the El Generico mask one of these days to get Jim to turn heel on him. And with Hunter now in-charge, I wouldn't put this idea past em'.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The fans were emotionally invested in Drew and despite the horrid booking at times, you have to admit they are also fickle when you look at how they treated his championship run

To be fair to the fans, though, pretty much the entirety of Drew's run took place in the pandemic when there were no fans. I would say it's Vince who was fickle. Drew was the most over babyface in the company prior to the pandemic, and there's no reason why he couldn't still have been as over once the fans came back, if he was booked well. I actually loved his feud with Orton during that run...there was some other good stuff too. But instead, in pretty much the first match infront of a live crowd post-pandemic, he gets beaten clean in the ring by a Lashley: a heel...at WrestleMania...while being made to look like an absolute fool.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The fans were emotionally invested in Drew and despite the horrid booking at times, you have to admit they are also fickle when you look at how they treated his championship run

I think majority of the fans were reacting positively to Drew's run. Only the marks would have hated it. I hadn't followed any dirtsheets or twitter back then so I don't know what was going on with the so called hardcores.

His run was very credible especially when you consider how Braun was doing in his reign coincidentally.
Even Roman acknowledged Drew's run once he returned and debuted his tribal chief gimmick.

His reign only suffered a blow once they started to sneak Miz in consistently with failed finishes and would redo it even worse. The loss to Randy for a pointless 10 day reign was also stupid. Otherwise it was very much a Batista like reign of 2006. And Drew is toe to toe in almost every aspect even better in some to Batista.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

To be fair to the fans, though, pretty much the entirety of Drew's run took place in the pandemic when there were no fans. I would say it's Vince who was fickle. Drew was the most over babyface in the company prior to the pandemic, and there's no reason why he couldn't still have been as over once the fans came back, if he was booked well. I actually loved his feud with Orton during that run...there was some other good stuff too. But instead, in pretty much the first match infront of a live crowd post-pandemic, he gets beaten clean in the ring by a Lashley: a heel...at WrestleMania...while being made to look like an absolute fool.

All of his championship feuds were exciting and fresh to see. It only fell apart once they started sneaking Miz and Morrison in repeatedly and despite Miz losing they would give it back to him.

A great match with Rollins in Rollins' worst gimmick.
A feud with Dolph that had no right of being that good both promo wise and match wise.
The mini feud with Lashley/Lana was silly.
Orton feud was a banger.
Had a great match with Roman at SS.
The ladder match and EC were good as well. Just that Miz interfering crashed the momentum.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ever since Bryan's 2014 rise to the top/title run, WWE somehow got it through their thick heads that the best way to get a babyface over is to beat him to powder, and then right as you are about to scatter his ashes, you start giving them something. They are not sharp enough to know that Bryan was a special talent who got over inspite of the bad booking.

I can't blame Drew's booking too much on Hunter because the UK match with Roman was made long before he even took charge. But now I'm interested to see how he books him. I'm willing to look past the Kross feud because they were bringing in a new guy that they wanted to get over straightaway and be taken seriously by the crowd. And a for that you need a guy of Drew's caliber to lend credibility to someone like Kross.

But now, Drew's booking has to improve. H once called Roman v Drew, the 'Flair v Hogan' of this generation. A rivalry between two of the biggest stars of this generation that they would revisit quite a few times down the line. Let's see if he actually lives up to what he has says.

There was really no reason to book him here at SS as he'll be playing a second fiddle to Sheamus here. And they're already having him go after Solo (who is very green atm). I am guessing a triple threat leading to the RR or EC with Drew Sheamus and Reigns.

I can't really take Kross seriously because of how mediocre he is in the ring. He is like an upgrade of Jinder. Both have a good look, reasonable mic skills but can't put on a single good match. It's merely the presentation where Kross is ahead. I know it would sound extremely harsh but seriously his push in NXT messed everything in the top card their. Ciampa, Lee, Dijak, Escobar, Priest, Gargano, Balor all had to job to him and yet he still couldn't get over with the Nxt fanbase and his matches are a borefest.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hard to think of a female wrestling talent in the business with more upside than Rhea Ripley. She has all the tools in the ring and on the mic, looks like an absolute beast physically and similar to MJF, is very advanced for her young age.

Yes Rhea is great. But I think Becky is still ahead of everyone in terms of drawing power and all round skills. As good as Sasha is as an allround package, her fanbase is amongst the worst. Kinda like The Elite's.

Think they've done everything right to make Bianca rise to the ranks among the 4 nxt ones. She has gotten that John Cena booking at gets great reactions. Her rise and development has been one of the best done stuff in recent times. Mandy has done incredible work in nxt considering how generic she was in the main roster. Would just like her to get away from that stupid toxic attraction stable. Can't stand gigi dolin.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

To be fair to the fans, though, pretty much the entirety of Drew's run took place in the pandemic when there were no fans. I would say it's Vince who was fickle. Drew was the most over babyface in the company prior to the pandemic, and there's no reason why he couldn't still have been as over once the fans came back, if he was booked well. I actually loved his feud with Orton during that run...there was some other good stuff too. But instead, in pretty much the first match infront of a live crowd post-pandemic, he gets beaten clean in the ring by a Lashley: a heel...at WrestleMania...while being made to look like an absolute fool.

And Lashley is back to being a heel without any plausible reason. And Seth is a face now without any reason as well. Lashley was doing good as a face.

I do however think the fans are ready for a top tier face Seth run now. He is much more accomplished in the ring and knows and plays his gimmick extremely well.

Another thing I am impressed with has been Bray's presentation. The little tweaks have made him look like a megastar which wasn't the case under his Fiend gimmick even though he was booked like an unbeatable force earlier on.

 

[shaz619]

To be fair to the fans, though, pretty much the entirety of Drew's run took place in the pandemic when there were no fans. I would say it's Vince who was fickle. Drew was the most over babyface in the company prior to the pandemic, and there's no reason why he couldn't still have been as over once the fans came back, if he was booked well. I actually loved his feud with Orton during that run...there was some other good stuff too. But instead, in pretty much the first match infront of a live crowd post-pandemic, he gets beaten clean in the ring by a Lashley: a heel...at WrestleMania...while being made to look like an absolute fool.

I think majority of the fans were reacting positively to Drew's run. Only the marks would have hated it. I hadn't followed any dirtsheets or twitter back then so I don't know what was going on with the so called hardcores.

His run was very credible especially when you consider how Braun was doing in his reign coincidentally.
Even Roman acknowledged Drew's run once he returned and debuted his tribal chief gimmick.

His reign only suffered a blow once they started to sneak Miz in consistently with failed finishes and would redo it even worse. The loss to Randy for a pointless 10 day reign was also stupid. Otherwise it was very much a Batista like reign of 2006. And Drew is toe to toe in almost every aspect even better in some to Batista.

Drew was a champion during the pandemic, he was the only guy who could have held that title, there was so much goodwill. Baby face story telling 101 during dire straits in the world he was that all mighty face who gave people hope and inspiration, like Bruno for the Italians in the great depression or Jack Johnson for the black community when slavery was still accepted. From being that guy to being boo’d on TV when attendance returned was in poor taste, it got to a point where he was booked into a corner where the fans chanted for Lashley and he had to go over at WM. A guy like Drew should never have been boo’d to begin with, maybe booking played a part but I think the fans were extremely fickle turning on the guy who carried the company on his back during the pandemic

 

[shaz619]

I had a thought, we don’t know the situation for sure with either The Rock or Cody.

But I feel one if the names who has to be in the conversation to possibly win the Royal Rumble and challenge Roman at Wrestlemania is Sami Zayn, just think of the story telling; Sami by far has the most heat as a baby face right now in the company, there is nobody more over. We know The Rock match will happen eventually and fingers crossed Cody will have his moment to.

There is an argument to be made that Cody’s triumph could be cold with all the time out and not much of a window to build to something special. There is more heat in the chase and there wouldn’t be much of that when he does come back.

I’d still take him going over etc because I don’t trust Hunter.

But Sami surely has to be in the conversation now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I had a thought, we don’t know the situation for sure with either The Rock or Cody.

But I feel one if the names who has to be in the conversation to possibly win the Royal Rumble and challenge Roman at Wrestlemania is Sami Zayn, just think of the story telling; Sami by far has the most heat as a baby face right now in the company, there is nobody more over. We know The Rock match will happen eventually and fingers crossed Cody will have his moment to.

There is an argument to be made that Cody’s triumph could be cold with all the time out and not much of a window to build to something special. There is more heat in the chase and there wouldn’t be much of that when he does come back.

I’d still take him going over etc because I don’t trust Hunter.

But Sami surely has to be in the conversation now.

Think Sami will have a match with Roman but not at Mania. If Dwayne is available, they would have him over both Sami and Cody cause of all the money he draws. Don't see Sami winning from Roman. I can see Cody winning from Roman at Summerslam though. Sami vs Roman at Royal Rumble probs.

 

[shaz619]

Think Sami will have a match with Roman but not at Mania. If Dwayne is available, they would have him over both Sami and Cody cause of all the money he draws. Don't see Sami winning from Roman. I can see Cody winning from Roman at Summerslam though. Sami vs Roman at Royal Rumble probs.

Yeah Reigns v Sami is a stadium match, so it could still happen at the Rumble. But it wouldn't shock me if they build an angle towards Wrestlemania, I wouldn't be against it, even more so if Sami went over; they'd have created another main eventer.

There are some rumours that Austin could return, if he did who'd you like him to face? I think he should stay retired but he got that itch back perhaps. But if he done another match, AJ Styles is not a bad option, whatever they do, they have to make sure he is paired with someone who can bump all over the ring.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah Reigns v Sami is a stadium match, so it could still happen at the Rumble. But it wouldn't shock me if they build an angle towards Wrestlemania, I wouldn't be against it, even more so if Sami went over; they'd have created another main eventer.

There are some rumours that Austin could return, if he did who'd you like him to face? I think he should stay retired but he got that itch back perhaps. But if he done another match, AJ Styles is not a bad option, whatever they do, they have to make sure he is paired with someone who can bump all over the ring.

Facing Austin at Mania (maybe maineventing that) would be a dream of majority of 30 and 40 year olds who grew up watching him. AJ, Seth, Theory, Sami, Drew, Gable, Riddle even Cena all would be willing to do the job with him but the opponent should be someone with heat.

Although both of his last matches have been perfect send offs.

 

[shaz619]

Facing Austin at Mania (maybe maineventing that) would be a dream of majority of 30 and 40 year olds who grew up watching him. AJ, Seth, Theory, Sami, Drew, Gable, Riddle even Cena all would be willing to do the job with him but the opponent should be someone with heat.

Although both of his last matches have been perfect send offs.

Cena would be greta but with him being a part timer and perhaps not as agile as some of the others, Austin may not opt for him unless it was a one sided squash, but I don’t see Austin wanting to have that kinda match. It seems to me AJ Styles and Seth would be the best options. He should stay retired imo, that match and set up with KO was epic

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Cena would be greta but with him being a part timer and perhaps not as agile as some of the others, Austin may not opt for him unless it was a one sided squash, but I don’t see Austin wanting to have that kinda match. It seems to me AJ Styles and Seth would be the best options. He should stay retired imo, that match and set up with KO was epic

Aj would probably be actively going to Trips and be asking to be his opponent if Austin makes up his mind about wrestling again.

For some reason, AJ's mania matches haven't really delivered apart from his match again Shane (which wasn't expected to be a good match in the first place). The cinematic match against Taker has been the best one which wasn't really a match. Although I did like AJ vs Y2J (even though the result didn't make any sense)

 

[shaz619]

Aj would probably be actively going to Trips and be asking to be his opponent if Austin makes up his mind about wrestling again.

For some reason, AJ's mania matches haven't really delivered apart from his match again Shane (which wasn't expected to be a good match in the first place). The cinematic match against Taker has been the best one which wasn't really a match. Although I did like AJ vs Y2J (even though the result didn't make any sense)

Unless there is a special marquee match with a huge name or one hell of a build, I think it is difficult to work in the middle of the card which is effectively the dead spot and the stadium adds to the challenge, you essentially need to wing it. AJ’s matches have been pretty good but I get they could be better given the expectations from him. Opening or main eventing provide a better platform to play off the crowd energy. If he is given that main event slot again I see him delivering what we have come to expect.

AJ/Seth Rollins are the best options imo

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Unless there is a special marquee match with a huge name or one hell of a build, I think it is difficult to work in the middle of the card which is effectively the dead spot and the stadium adds to the challenge, you essentially need to wing it. AJ’s matches have been pretty good but I get they could be better given the expectations from him. Opening or main eventing provide a better platform to play off the crowd energy. If he is given that main event slot again I see him delivering what we have come to expect.

AJ/Seth Rollins are the best options imo

I had great expectations from AJ vs Edge this year but it didn't deliver. Edge vs AJ should have been the show stealer.
Apart from that, that whole Nakamura feud was butchered.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I was just thinking the word generational talent gets thrown around way too much these days both in cricket and pro wrestling.

Who do you think are or have been generational talents in wrestling? And what do you think gets taken under consideration to classify a guy as generational talent? Like what does it mean to be a generational talent.

No better generation to pick than the generation of John Cena, Randy etc.

So many guys from that group went on to become big names and ATGs.
John Cena, Randy Orton, CM Punk, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Tanahashi, Jeff Hardy, Sheamus, Samoa Joe, add any if i have missed.

Wanted to know what do you guys think about being a generational talent and who do you think it is from the listed generation. Not necessarily one but could be 2 as well.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I was just thinking the word generational talent gets thrown around way too much these days both in cricket and pro wrestling.

Who do you think are or have been generational talents in wrestling? And what do you think gets taken under consideration to classify a guy as generational talent? Like what does it mean to be a generational talent.

No better generation to pick than the generation of John Cena, Randy etc.

So many guys from that group went on to become big names and ATGs.
John Cena, Randy Orton, CM Punk, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Tanahashi, Jeff Hardy, Sheamus, Samoa Joe, add any if i have missed.

Wanted to know what do you guys think about being a generational talent and who do you think it is from the listed generation. Not necessarily one but could be 2 as well.

There are some great names there and if I am looking at the most recent generation and focusing on the 21st century, the word gets thrown around a lot, but when we say generational, to me we are describing a talent/star which doesn’t come around often or one whom we’ve not seen of that ilk. And with that in mind, Brock Lesnar just blows everyone out the water. And I don’t feel we will ever find someone quiet like him, from his freakish physicality and athletic ability to the realism he bought from winning the NCAA and then going on to have success in the UFC to then returning to be the biggest star of the last decade is taken for granted and he could do it all in the ring. He didn’t go to MMA or use that success to elevate pro wrestling but Kurt Angle is up there to, I edge towards Brock due to what he done outside wrestling to but it is insane looking back all these years that a future UFC world champion and Olympic Gold medalist were around at the same time.

Shawn Michaels might fall out the loop from the names you mention, but purely from an in-ring POV, it’s my opinion that no body can match him or his body of work, just watching his old matches is like witnessing a true master and artist.

But if I am going with one pick, I’d go with Brock.

 

[shaz619]

I had great expectations from AJ vs Edge this year but it didn't deliver. Edge vs AJ should have been the show stealer.
Apart from that, that whole Nakamura feud was butchered.

AJ/Edge should have opened one of the nights, I think it was positioned awkwardly, still a great match but it could have been better. I hope AJ gets to open one of the nights this time round.

AJ/Nak was booked to extend their feud as much as possible and done so via the matches themselves opposed to building during segments and that hurt them, however I enjoyed the blow off which was the last man standing match

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I was just thinking the word generational talent gets thrown around way too much these days both in cricket and pro wrestling.

Who do you think are or have been generational talents in wrestling? And what do you think gets taken under consideration to classify a guy as generational talent? Like what does it mean to be a generational talent.

No better generation to pick than the generation of John Cena, Randy etc.

So many guys from that group went on to become big names and ATGs.
John Cena, Randy Orton, CM Punk, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Tanahashi, Jeff Hardy, Sheamus, Samoa Joe, add any if i have missed.

Wanted to know what do you guys think about being a generational talent and who do you think it is from the listed generation. Not necessarily one but could be 2 as well.

Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit were all generational talents in my opinion. Guys who brought something to the ring that was simply unlike anything we had ever seen before. It's hard for me to come up with with a checklist of things that would qualify one as a generational talent beyond the fact that they were truly one-of-a-kind and stood out no matter where they wrestled or who they wrestled.

When I think of guys like Hogan, Cena, Batista...yeah they were great. Batista will always be one of my favorite wrestlers ever. But if someone else came around at the same time with something close to that look and promo ability would he have gotten over, as well? Probably.

Of the current generation of active wrestlers, I feel that Bryan Danielson and MJF are two guys who can be categorized as generational talents.

I think an argument can definitely be made for Rey Mysterio as well because of everything he has done to bring lucha libre to the mainstream and the role he has played in changing the perception of smaller wrestlers in the US.

But ultimately, at the end of the day its subjective. Which is why I'm not going to nitpick other people's choices for guys that they see as generational talents.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

All of his championship feuds were exciting and fresh to see. It only fell apart once they started sneaking Miz and Morrison in repeatedly and despite Miz losing they would give it back to him.

A great match with Rollins in Rollins' worst gimmick.
A feud with Dolph that had no right of being that good both promo wise and match wise.
The mini feud with Lashley/Lana was silly.
Orton feud was a banger.
Had a great match with Roman at SS.
The ladder match and EC were good as well. Just that Miz interfering crashed the momentum.

Agreed. A damn shame that the entirety of it took place infront of no fans. Me and shaz were even discussing (a year or so ago) what a pop Drew would have gotten if he actually beat Lesnar infront of a packed Raymond James Stadium.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There was really no reason to book him here at SS as he'll be playing a second fiddle to Sheamus here. And they're already having him go after Solo (who is very green atm). I am guessing a triple threat leading to the RR or EC with Drew Sheamus and Reigns.

I can't really take Kross seriously because of how mediocre he is in the ring. He is like an upgrade of Jinder. Both have a good look, reasonable mic skills but can't put on a single good match. It's merely the presentation where Kross is ahead. I know it would sound extremely harsh but seriously his push in NXT messed everything in the top card their. Ciampa, Lee, Dijak, Escobar, Priest, Gargano, Balor all had to job to him and yet he still couldn't get over with the Nxt fanbase and his matches are a borefest.

I didn't see that as him going after Solo though. Seemed more like he was angry at Solo for costing him the match at Clash at the Castle.

I really hope that doesn't happen. I mean they have already beaten Drew to powder. I've honestly lost count of how many times he has lost to Roman since WrestleMania 35. I think Sheamus v Roman would be a much better option. Sheamus is very over and can wrestle a physical match against Roman that might be fun to watch. But if they see any sort of future for Drew they need to keep him away from Roman until he is ready to beat him.

Yes, but remember this is the WWE. A place where your look, personality and presentation has always mattered far more than your match quality.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

And Lashley is back to being a heel without any plausible reason. And Seth is a face now without any reason as well. Lashley was doing good as a face.

I do however think the fans are ready for a top tier face Seth run now. He is much more accomplished in the ring and knows and plays his gimmick extremely well.

Another thing I am impressed with has been Bray's presentation. The little tweaks have made him look like a megastar which wasn't the case under his Fiend gimmick even though he was booked like an unbeatable force earlier on.

Yeah that's what I was saying the other day. It makes zero sense how both those guys have turned. If anything, its actually really confusing.

I also think that Seth is ready to go babyface. But can we please drop this weird gimmick where he acts like he is actively tripping on acid while he is cutting a promo? Like, why can't Seth Rollins be a normal human being?

I was actually a massive mark for that Fiend entrance, which I thought was very unique and cool. But I see your point. The guy definitely comes off as a big megastar whenever he comes on.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Drew was a champion during the pandemic, he was the only guy who could have held that title, there was so much goodwill. Baby face story telling 101 during dire straits in the world he was that all mighty face who gave people hope and inspiration, like Bruno for the Italians in the great depression or Jack Johnson for the black community when slavery was still accepted. From being that guy to being boo’d on TV when attendance returned was in poor taste, it got to a point where he was booked into a corner where the fans chanted for Lashley and he had to go over at WM. A guy like Drew should never have been boo’d to begin with, maybe booking played a part but I think the fans were extremely fickle turning on the guy who carried the company on his back during the pandemic

Okay I wasn't particularly well-aware of that. Probably because I can't tell if the crowd noise in WWE is real or piped-in. I think I've just tuned it out now that I think about it.

But yeah, I'm fairly certain that the garbage booking played its part in that too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Who do you guys think the 5th guy will be in the babyface team? Initially ofcourse I thought it has to be KO. He has history with The Bloodline, Sami Zayn and a bit of history with Drew, who he fought on RAW a couple of months back.

But after hearing that he might have picked up an injury at a recent house show, it seems improbable to me that he will be able to recover in just a couple of weeks.

So who do you guys think will be the 5th member of the team? And please don't say Riddle or one of the members of The New Day.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Liked what they did with Theory on RAW this week. For once something on this show made sense. Whether this supposed makeover actually sticks...only time will tell. But I'd much rather have this version of Theory rather than that Miz-like goof who comes out every week taking selfies and telling everyone how how great he is, before he gets his a** kicked by one of the babyfaces.

 

[shaz619]

Liked what they did with Theory on RAW this week. For once something on this show made sense. Whether this supposed makeover actually sticks...only time will tell. But I'd much rather have this version of Theory rather than that Miz-like goof who comes out every week taking selfies and telling everyone how how great he is, before he gets his a** kicked by one of the babyfaces.

The promo started with good intentions but it was written poorly, he basically justified the cash in by burying Seth.

Nobody can beat Reigns so I cashed in on Seth. because he is the weaker champion.

It’s going to take some time to recover from the worst cash in ever.

Theory was a chicken sh!t heel, it can work when you go all the way with it and he had been built up / protected quiet well. Seth in his first run as champion had a good heel gimmick imo and it was entertaining.

You’d have expected Theory to transition to a more serious character eventually though, over here I feel they done him dirty.

MITB can be a curse but very rarely do you get a cash in wrong. There are better ways to transition to a new persona, sometimes you can get really creative with it and build up some genuine motivation to do so. Being angry with a failed cash in makes sense but to have cashed in, the way that he did, was out of character and a poor reflection on the writing.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Who do you guys think the 5th guy will be in the babyface team? Initially ofcourse I thought it has to be KO. He has history with The Bloodline, Sami Zayn and a bit of history with Drew, who he fought on RAW a couple of months back.

But after hearing that he might have picked up an injury at a recent house show, it seems improbable to me that he will be able to recover in just a couple of weeks.

So who do you guys think will be the 5th member of the team? And please don't say Riddle or one of the members of The New Day.

I haven’t followed the angle as much tbh what’s the low down, I think either it’s a surprise or someone else who has a gripe or history with the bloodline ?

 

[shaz619]

Okay I wasn't particularly well-aware of that. Probably because I can't tell if the crowd noise in WWE is real or piped-in. I think I've just tuned it out now that I think about it.

But yeah, I'm fairly certain that the garbage booking played its part in that too.

It was piped in and long after the crowd returns which was so off putting, I don’t know if they still do that, it certainly wasn’t the case at clash of the castle, speaking of which they did a record gate here, when will we get a proper PPV…

But my take was, they needed a organic face during a tough situation in the world and he was that guy for the people who tuned in. Perhaps if we had a live audience each week maybe things would be better am not sure, Reigns still had heat despite that factor. The fans now do have short memories and attention spans. I think only someone like a Rey or a Bryan or a Mick Foley or Austin are so over as faces that they are beyond the fickle nature of fans, then again Bryan in his comeback wasn’t getting as much heat so he used that and turned into the planets champion, I wont rule out some criticism towards Drew then I suppose to but I feel that would be harsh

 

[shaz619]

Yeah that's what I was saying the other day. It makes zero sense how both those guys have turned. If anything, its actually really confusing.

I also think that Seth is ready to go babyface. But can we please drop this weird gimmick where he acts like he is actively tripping on acid while he is cutting a promo? Like, why can't Seth Rollins be a normal human being?

I was actually a massive mark for that Fiend entrance, which I thought was very unique and cool. But I see your point. The guy definitely comes off as a big megastar whenever he comes on.

Seth tried being a normal human being but he was just too vanilla, his best run as a face was when he was with the Shield. There are some missed booking opportunities where he could have been a good face like when he returned from injury but he required shrewd booking but on the whole he is a guy who has struggled to make people like him. Maybe they can give it another shot, do you see Seth being as big a success as a face as he has been in his heel roles?

There’s a funny episode from the broken skull sessions where Austin reviewed the entrances of Seth/Hunter, on one hand Hunter got all the raz mataz, came out on a bike etc and what not, and then there was Seth who came out with a torch looking like a dork. Seth “Freakin” Rollins is not a gimmick.

It is tougher to book and execute a face, maybe experience will help Seth. What kind of character could he do? would he limit trying too hard on the mic and premeditating emotion? he should be calling Heyman

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Liked what they did with Theory on RAW this week. For once something on this show made sense. Whether this supposed makeover actually sticks...only time will tell. But I'd much rather have this version of Theory rather than that Miz-like goof who comes out every week taking selfies and telling everyone how how great he is, before he gets his a** kicked by one of the babyfaces.

only watched 2 segments of raw.

I think Theory showed the "ability" there, his delivery, the expressions, amped up in ring style everything complemented well except the promo content was stupid. But i'd like to see this serious version of heel theory if he's to be built up for the top card which he should be. The cocky heel theory was good but it was hard to take him seriously as a main eventer in that gimmick. On one hand, he was booked like a scared heel hiding behind Vince all the time while at the same time he was beating the likes of Balor and others clean. It just didn't add up for me. I do think he has the ability to become a main eventer. But that character wasn't a going to do it that too suddenly. Would have been another Jack Swagger situation.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Seth tried being a normal human being but he was just too vanilla, his best run as a face was when he was with the Shield. There are some missed booking opportunities where he could have been a good face like when he returned from injury but he required shrewd booking but on the whole he is a guy who has struggled to make people like him. Maybe they can give it another shot, do you see Seth being as big a success as a face as he has been in his heel roles?

There’s a funny episode from the broken skull sessions where Austin reviewed the entrances of Seth/Hunter, on one hand Hunter got all the raz mataz, came out on a bike etc and what not, and then there was Seth who came out with a torch looking like a dork. Seth “Freakin” Rollins is not a gimmick.

It is tougher to book and execute a face, maybe experience will help Seth. What kind of character could he do? would he limit trying too hard on the mic and premeditating emotion? he should be calling Heyman

It was hard for me to seriously buy into the laughing Rollins character initially. But with time, he has grown into it exceptionally well and seems to be doing the best work of his career now. For some reason, he feels very genuine here and it's resonating with the crowd as well. The pops he gets now and how crowd gets behind him from the word go, he wasn't even getting back in 2016-19 period. The real Colby Lopez which was very much his gimmick from 2016-19 wasn't really getting that huge for some reason with the crowd. Maybe it was like there wasn't really any gimmick there, just Seth being himself. His booking was awful as well back(Baron Corbin especially) Now it does seem like what they call "larger than life". But I think his in ring work has become masterful now and complements his character very well. He's become more Edge like now with being able to tweak his style as to what stage of feud he is in. Before that, he would only work at one speed and intensity which was his fullest. The worst Seth was the Messiah version for me. It was good that it came at the time of pandemic cause the audience had started going extremely hostile on him and promos etc in empty arenas helped his delivery somewhat.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It was piped in and long after the crowd returns which was so off putting, I don’t know if they still do that, it certainly wasn’t the case at clash of the castle, speaking of which they did a record gate here, when will we get a proper PPV…

But my take was, they needed a organic face during a tough situation in the world and he was that guy for the people who tuned in. Perhaps if we had a live audience each week maybe things would be better am not sure, Reigns still had heat despite that factor. The fans now do have short memories and attention spans. I think only someone like a Rey or a Bryan or a Mick Foley or Austin are so over as faces that they are beyond the fickle nature of fans, then again Bryan in his comeback wasn’t getting as much heat so he used that and turned into the planets champion, I wont rule out some criticism towards Drew then I suppose to but I feel that would be harsh

The People's Champ bro. The only time he was booed was when he came out to help Roman in that awful Rumble. Initially the crowd popped thinking he was the surprise entrant but then started booing him after finding out he's just helping roman.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] Who do you guys think the 5th guy will be in the babyface team? Initially ofcourse I thought it has to be KO. He has history with The Bloodline, Sami Zayn and a bit of history with Drew, who he fought on RAW a couple of months back.

But after hearing that he might have picked up an injury at a recent house show, it seems improbable to me that he will be able to recover in just a couple of weeks.

So who do you guys think will be the 5th member of the team? And please don't say Riddle or one of the members of The New Day.

Think it's either going to be KO. Or maybe a returning Randy. Cause it was actually his feud against The Bloodline where he was taken out. They are good at spreading false news to make it sound like he's severely injured and may be out of 6 more months or so etc etc. It could be Rey as well I think.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Agreed. A damn shame that the entirety of it took place infront of no fans. Me and shaz were even discussing (a year or so ago) what a pop Drew would have gotten if he actually beat Lesnar infront of a packed Raymond James Stadium.

Maybe the match could have been better than a 3 min finishers repeats if it were infront of the fans.

The crowd hasn't popped for a Rumble Winner that loud since I can't really remember when was the last time the rumble winner got such a wild reaction.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There are some great names there and if I am looking at the most recent generation and focusing on the 21st century, the word gets thrown around a lot, but when we say generational, to me we are describing a talent/star which doesn’t come around often or one whom we’ve not seen of that ilk. And with that in mind, Brock Lesnar just blows everyone out the water. And I don’t feel we will ever find someone quiet like him, from his freakish physicality and athletic ability to the realism he bought from winning the NCAA and then going on to have success in the UFC to then returning to be the biggest star of the last decade is taken for granted and he could do it all in the ring. He didn’t go to MMA or use that success to elevate pro wrestling but Kurt Angle is up there to, I edge towards Brock due to what he done outside wrestling to but it is insane looking back all these years that a future UFC world champion and Olympic Gold medalist were around at the same time.

Shawn Michaels might fall out the loop from the names you mention, but purely from an in-ring POV, it’s my opinion that no body can match him or his body of work, just watching his old matches is like witnessing a true master and artist.

But if I am going with one pick, I’d go with Brock.

Agreed. I would have said Lesnar as well. No one else would have been able to be the highest paid guy while being a part timer for 10 years now. Lesnar screams special. As good as Randy, Cena, Punk, AJ etc are, they are still essentially wrestlers. With Brock, it's like seeing a dinosaur in a zoo these days.

Jeff being far from a generational talent though, has probably been my second favorite all timer after Dwayne. Jeff doesn't even need a mic to get people rallying behind him. Has something strange about him. And he has always been someone who kids simply gravitate towards even when he was in the european title pic.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit were all generational talents in my opinion. Guys who brought something to the ring that was simply unlike anything we had ever seen before. It's hard for me to come up with with a checklist of things that would qualify one as a generational talent beyond the fact that they were truly one-of-a-kind and stood out no matter where they wrestled or who they wrestled.

When I think of guys like Hogan, Cena, Batista...yeah they were great. Batista will always be one of my favorite wrestlers ever. But if someone else came around at the same time with something close to that look and promo ability would he have gotten over, as well? Probably.

Of the current generation of active wrestlers, I feel that Bryan Danielson and MJF are two guys who can be categorized as generational talents.

I think an argument can definitely be made for Rey Mysterio as well because of everything he has done to bring lucha libre to the mainstream and the role he has played in changing the perception of smaller wrestlers in the US.

But ultimately, at the end of the day its subjective. Which is why I'm not going to nitpick other people's choices for guys that they see as generational talents.

I would agree about Kurt but not about Benoit or Bret (just my opinion). As good as Bret was, I think Owen was just as good. It's just a shame he never got to use the Game gimmick and passed away and Hunter took that gimmick. I do think Ric could have given Bret a good go for his money as well if Ric was 10 years younger. He was already 40 by the time WCW properly started around that Steamboat feud.

Kurt was simply all round and meshed with every single style of wrestling and not just that he was extremely inept at every thing, mic skills, drawing power, heel work, face, changing gimmicks, being the top guy etc

Agreed about Cena Hogan Batista, they were hardworking individuals who used their talent to its max but others could have done what they have done as well. Savage could have done Hogan's work IMO.

I am yet to see a generational talent from this current young generation. Too early to say I think. Won't categorize MJF as the one right now.

 

[shaz619]

It was hard for me to seriously buy into the laughing Rollins character initially. But with time, he has grown into it exceptionally well and seems to be doing the best work of his career now. For some reason, he feels very genuine here and it's resonating with the crowd as well. The pops he gets now and how crowd gets behind him from the word go, he wasn't even getting back in 2016-19 period. The real Colby Lopez which was very much his gimmick from 2016-19 wasn't really getting that huge for some reason with the crowd. Maybe it was like there wasn't really any gimmick there, just Seth being himself. His booking was awful as well back(Baron Corbin especially) Now it does seem like what they call "larger than life". But I think his in ring work has become masterful now and complements his character very well. He's become more Edge like now with being able to tweak his style as to what stage of feud he is in. Before that, he would only work at one speed and intensity which was his fullest. The worst Seth was the Messiah version for me. It was good that it came at the time of pandemic cause the audience had started going extremely hostile on him and promos etc in empty arenas helped his delivery somewhat.

No denying he is doing some of the best work of his career now as an all round performer although personally, I really enjoyed his run as a chicken sh!t heel. Maybe this persona can transition into a face character with adjustments if that’s the direction they want to go with, but right now I feel there is still life left in his current run

 

[BunnyRabbit]

No denying he is doing some of the best work of his career now as an all round performer although personally, I really enjoyed his run as a chicken sh!t heel. Maybe this persona can transition into a face character with adjustments if that’s the direction they want to go with, but right now I feel there is still life left in his current run

Which one are you referring to? The heel Seth with MITB and Authority or the current one?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

No denying he is doing some of the best work of his career now as an all round performer although personally, I really enjoyed his run as a chicken sh!t heel. Maybe this persona can transition into a face character with adjustments if that’s the direction they want to go with, but right now I feel there is still life left in his current run

He has turned face already while carrying the same gimmick since last week. He's thanking the crowd and not talking down anyone. Even wrestled as a face against a heel balor.

 

[shaz619]

Which one are you referring to? The heel Seth with MITB and Authority or the current one?

I’d agree his best work is now but I like the MITB/Authority run with J&J security, that was a lot of fun

The singles match with Cena at SS imo is still his best and the most important match of his career

 

[shaz619]

He has turned face already while carrying the same gimmick since last week. He's thanking the crowd and not talking down anyone. Even wrestled as a face against a heel balor.

Is he? I didn’t realise it tbh, will check out RAW

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I’d agree his best work is now but I like the MITB/Authority run with J&J security, that was a lot of fun

The singles match with Cena at SS imo is still his best and the most important match of his career

Yes it was. I liked the Kane-Seth storyline during that time.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Is he? I didn’t realise it tbh, will check out RAW

Yes he has. But there hasn't really been any reason as to why he has turned face all of a sudden just like Lashley has turned heel now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The promo started with good intentions but it was written poorly, he basically justified the cash in by burying Seth.

Nobody can beat Reigns so I cashed in on Seth. because he is the weaker champion.

It’s going to take some time to recover from the worst cash in ever.

Theory was a chicken sh!t heel, it can work when you go all the way with it and he had been built up / protected quiet well. Seth in his first run as champion had a good heel gimmick imo and it was entertaining.

You’d have expected Theory to transition to a more serious character eventually though, over here I feel they done him dirty.

MITB can be a curse but very rarely do you get a cash in wrong. There are better ways to transition to a new persona, sometimes you can get really creative with it and build up some genuine motivation to do so. Being angry with a failed cash in makes sense but to have cashed in, the way that he did, was out of character and a poor reflection on the writing.

Yeah but he clarified that he decided to cash in on Seth only after he had been beaten within an inch of his life by Lashley. He did put over Seth as one of the great champions of the last decade or something, but his point seemed to be that he had a higher probability of cashing on a beaten Seth Rollins than a healthy Roman Reigns who is always surrounded by The Bloodline.

I'm not going to justify his cash-in. It was absolutely atrocious in every way. And its probably a moment that will follow him for the rest of his career. But in the context of them trying to move past an atrocity like that, and put it in the rear-view mirror, I felt this was probably the best way they could have explained it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but he clarified that he decided to cash in on Seth only after he had been beaten within an inch of his life by Lashley. He did put over Seth as one of the great champions of the last decade or something, but his point seemed to be that he had a higher probability of cashing on a beaten Seth Rollins than a healthy Roman Reigns who is always surrounded by The Bloodline.

I'm not going to justify his cash-in. It was absolutely atrocious in every way. And its probably a moment that will follow him for the rest of his career. But in the context of them trying to move past an atrocity like that, and put it in the rear-view mirror, I felt this was probably the best way they could have explained it.

Again, US championship doesn't require a person to win Rumble, EC or MITB to get a chance (storywise). He could have simply asked for a match against Seth and kept his MITB safe. If they wanted to get MITB off him, then could have simply have him lose to Roman at Crown Jewel or any other appearance that Roman makes. Roman is strong as hell(character wise) to avoid a successful MITB cash in and lose to Theory.

Giving Austin the MITB was just as dead end as giving Otis the briefcase last year.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah but he clarified that he decided to cash in on Seth only after he had been beaten within an inch of his life by Lashley. He did put over Seth as one of the great champions of the last decade or something, but his point seemed to be that he had a higher probability of cashing on a beaten Seth Rollins than a healthy Roman Reigns who is always surrounded by The Bloodline.

I'm not going to justify his cash-in. It was absolutely atrocious in every way. And its probably a moment that will follow him for the rest of his career. But in the context of them trying to move past an atrocity like that, and put it in the rear-view mirror, I felt this was probably the best way they could have explained it.

His reasoning may have seemed legitimate but in essence it also emphasised that Seth was the easier fish to catch, had they not mentioned the stuff surrounding Reigns his words would have had more weight regarding Seth being a star. But for a second lets just say the explanation was perfectly reasonable, however he lost and looked like a dork despite cashing in on a mid card belt. And it’s a big call for them to hit reset when he had all the heat in his previous gimmick which had been built up all year. Lets not forget how badly Mustafa Ali has been treated, who people thought Vince was against, I can’t remember a time he has been made to look like such a huge joke on national television until now.

WWE will have its highs, I expect the wrestling and PPV’s to deliver, but RAW/SD have reverted to type, Hunter has his favourites but it’s clear, running NXT and the A shows, two different kettle of fish and the test begins now.

 

[shaz619]

Again, US championship doesn't require a person to win Rumble, EC or MITB to get a chance (storywise). He could have simply asked for a match against Seth and kept his MITB safe. If they wanted to get MITB off him, then could have simply have him lose to Roman at Crown Jewel or any other appearance that Roman makes. Roman is strong as hell(character wise) to avoid a successful MITB cash in and lose to Theory.

Giving Austin the MITB was just as dead end as giving Otis the briefcase last year.

I feel though with Theory, Vince had big plans for him with the case, if he wasn’t going to win, the cash in would have been dramatic at least and the match would have put Theory over in some way and make him look like a star.

There is talk of Logan Paul wanting Cena at mania, that would be a travesty, I hope it’s Theory

 

[shaz619]

Has MJF turned face?

 

[shaz619]

I must admit, Full Gear looks like really strong card. I just hope they don’t get too excited on the night with ridiculous spots.

Excited for the main event and the return of Saraya, I never thought she’d wrestle again, I’ve followed her career since the documentary on her family which aired on FTA Channel 4, to see her grow from that point to making it in America and showcasing British womens strong style was incredible, to then along with Emma start a revolution in WWE tends to get overlooked due to the success of the stars which came after.

They could do with a few more singles matches but they getting all on the car, Wardlow’s triple threat should be interesting.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I feel though with Theory, Vince had big plans for him with the case, if he wasn’t going to win, the cash in would have been dramatic at least and the match would have put Theory over in some way and make him look like a star.

There is talk of Logan Paul wanting Cena at mania, that would be a travesty, I hope it’s Theory

If Cena faces Theory, he'll probably lose. If he faces Logan, there's a chance he might win.
For selfish reasons, I don't want to see Cena lose another match regardless if it makes sense or not. He hasn't won a match in 4 years. It's like he just comes back to lose.

Cena vs LA Knight could be a good feud with great promos.

Cena vs Mustafa Ali or Pat Macafee or Damien Priest could be good as well.

Cena vs Austin would be big draw only for the name value although would expect Austin to go over here.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

His reasoning may have seemed legitimate but in essence it also emphasised that Seth was the easier fish to catch, had they not mentioned the stuff surrounding Reigns his words would have had more weight regarding Seth being a star. But for a second lets just say the explanation was perfectly reasonable, however he lost and looked like a dork despite cashing in on a mid card belt. And it’s a big call for them to hit reset when he had all the heat in his previous gimmick which had been built up all year. Lets not forget how badly Mustafa Ali has been treated, who people thought Vince was against, I can’t remember a time he has been made to look like such a huge joke on national television until now.

WWE will have its highs, I expect the wrestling and PPV’s to deliver, but RAW/SD have reverted to type, Hunter has his favourites but it’s clear, running NXT and the A shows, two different kettle of fish and the test begins now.

I think Mustafa Ali was more of a Vince guy than Trips. He never did NXT. He came through 205 live and Vince saw money due to his Indo-Pak heritage.

Think it would have made sense for Theory to go after Lashley instead of Seth if they wanted to show a vicious side of him. Go head to head against Lashley provoke him and see the reactions. if the audience cares means it could be a success.

 

[shaz619]

I think Mustafa Ali was more of a Vince guy than Trips. He never did NXT. He came through 205 live and Vince saw money due to his Indo-Pak heritage.

Think it would have made sense for Theory to go after Lashley instead of Seth if they wanted to show a vicious side of him. Go head to head against Lashley provoke him and see the reactions. if the audience cares means it could be a success.

Yes, Mustafa Ali never made the initial world tournament cut, he got through only due to an injury. Vince admired Ali’s story and his grit.

There is time for them to recover but he needs strong booking now and like you say some big wins

 

[shaz619]

If Cena faces Theory, he'll probably lose. If he faces Logan, there's a chance he might win.
For selfish reasons, I don't want to see Cena lose another match regardless if it makes sense or not. He hasn't won a match in 4 years. It's like he just comes back to lose.

Cena vs LA Knight could be a good feud with great promos.

Cena vs Mustafa Ali or Pat Macafee or Damien Priest could be good as well.

Cena vs Austin would be big draw only for the name value although would expect Austin to go over here.

I know what you mean, perhaps they can do a two PPV deal, have Cena go over and then put someone over.

I am not a fan of two part timers wrestling and I feel at Austins age he would need someone to bump around for a decent match. Cena match could happen but it would be a squash, if it’s anything more, it could be Taker v Berg all over again

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I know what you mean, perhaps they can do a two PPV deal, have Cena go over and then put someone over.

I am not a fan of two part timers wrestling and I feel at Austins age he would need someone to bump around for a decent match. Cena match could happen but it would be a squash, if it’s anything more, it could be Taker v Berg all over again

Goldberg was reckless and awful throughout. Austin is a respectable and safe worker. Cena hasn't missed a step and can bump for Austin. He sold pretty well for Roman last year.

 

[shaz619]

Goldberg was reckless and awful throughout. Austin is a respectable and safe worker. Cena hasn't missed a step and can bump for Austin. He sold pretty well for Roman last year.

Cena’s great don’t get me wrong but he’s not Shawn Michaels, he was never the best seller even when he got so much better. I would be very surprise if he is picked, I feel Austin would have reservations to.

There’s a reason he personally handpicked KO, at first we were like that doesn’t get the juices flowing but Austin has such a high ring IQ, he knew what he wanted to get out the match and picked the right guy, it’s all on who Austin would want to face and I feel whoever it is, it will be good, maybe it will be Cena? if it is I trust his vision

 

[shaz619]

If we’re talking big names, I can see a match layout where these could work better:

Austin vs Orton

Reigns vs Austin - I know the chief has other plans but I could see this working

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would agree about Kurt but not about Benoit or Bret (just my opinion). As good as Bret was, I think Owen was just as good. It's just a shame he never got to use the Game gimmick and passed away and Hunter took that gimmick. I do think Ric could have given Bret a good go for his money as well if Ric was 10 years younger. He was already 40 by the time WCW properly started around that Steamboat feud.

Kurt was simply all round and meshed with every single style of wrestling and not just that he was extremely inept at every thing, mic skills, drawing power, heel work, face, changing gimmicks, being the top guy etc

Agreed about Cena Hogan Batista, they were hardworking individuals who used their talent to its max but others could have done what they have done as well. Savage could have done Hogan's work IMO.

I am yet to see a generational talent from this current young generation. Too early to say I think. Won't categorize MJF as the one right now.

I've seen MJF closely. Not just his promos and matches, but also the way he presents himself and the interviews he does. This guy has a remarkable understanding of what this business should be. At just 26 years of age, he is already a main-eventer, his promos are incredible, and he is a bonafide star based just about every conceivable metric except World Championships. Although that too could change soon.

I truly believe that he is someone whose promos and matches will be watched and appreciated decades from now. I mean just his feud with Punk is enough to put him in the annals of wrestling history but considering that he is only just getting started I feel like we will see many more incredible things in the future. So all those positives definitely make him a generational talent for me. Because I don't see someone as good(who is as accomplished in all areas and has that understanding) coming around in maybe another generation.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Again, US championship doesn't require a person to win Rumble, EC or MITB to get a chance (storywise). He could have simply asked for a match against Seth and kept his MITB safe. If they wanted to get MITB off him, then could have simply have him lose to Roman at Crown Jewel or any other appearance that Roman makes. Roman is strong as hell(character wise) to avoid a successful MITB cash in and lose to Theory.

Giving Austin the MITB was just as dead end as giving Otis the briefcase last year.

Yeah but again, he's a chickens**t hell. He knows he can't beat Roman or Seth in a fair fight. He knows he can't even beat Roman in an unfair fight where he has the advantage. He had been losing match after match for weeks and couldn't buy a win so when he saw that Seth was out in the ring he laid out, he figured he might as well take advantage of the situation.

I mean it was badly executed and they could have come up with a better idea if they wanted to get the briefcase off him. But his motivation was not the issue for me here. The hole in that whole plan was that why didn't he wait for Lashley to just leave? That felt a really stupid risk to take when his entire aim was to quite literally pick up the pieces without doing anything.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His reasoning may have seemed legitimate but in essence it also emphasised that Seth was the easier fish to catch, had they not mentioned the stuff surrounding Reigns his words would have had more weight regarding Seth being a star. But for a second lets just say the explanation was perfectly reasonable, however he lost and looked like a dork despite cashing in on a mid card belt. And it’s a big call for them to hit reset when he had all the heat in his previous gimmick which had been built up all year. Lets not forget how badly Mustafa Ali has been treated, who people thought Vince was against, I can’t remember a time he has been made to look like such a huge joke on national television until now.

WWE will have its highs, I expect the wrestling and PPV’s to deliver, but RAW/SD have reverted to type, Hunter has his favourites but it’s clear, running NXT and the A shows, two different kettle of fish and the test begins now.

Well I mean they've made no qualms about the fact that Roman is the number one guy in the company. They've pretty much been hammering that in our heads for the last two years so I didn't really have an issue with them saying Seth is easier to cash on than Roman. Because he is. And as good as Seth is, he is simply not on the level of Roman as a star. As a wrestler he is miles ahead but as far as being 'the guy' is concerned there's only one man at the top, in kayfabe and real life.

Yeah I agree. It weird how he is booking all these feuds between NXT guys and WWE guys. It like he's been planning this for 5 years lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Has MJF turned face?

They are playing around with the idea. I think it would be an absolutely bonehead move if they actually decide to go through with it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I must admit, Full Gear looks like really strong card. I just hope they don’t get too excited on the night with ridiculous spots.

Excited for the main event and the return of Saraya, I never thought she’d wrestle again, I’ve followed her career since the documentary on her family which aired on FTA Channel 4, to see her grow from that point to making it in America and showcasing British womens strong style was incredible, to then along with Emma start a revolution in WWE tends to get overlooked due to the success of the stars which came after.

They could do with a few more singles matches but they getting all on the car, Wardlow’s triple threat should be interesting.

Yup. And one thing I like about AEW is that they always deliver multiple great matches on their PPVs. There are definitely a few here that have the potential to be great.

End of the day though, Mox v MJF is the match I am most looking forward to. So if that doesn't deliver I would be pretty disappointed.

Wardlow v Joe v Hobbs really excites me too. And apparently Eddie Kingston is wrestling freakin' Akiyama on the Pre-Show.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes, Mustafa Ali never made the initial world tournament cut, he got through only due to an injury. Vince admired Ali’s story and his grit.

There is time for them to recover but he needs strong booking now and like you say some big wins

I LOLed when I saw he was representing Pakistan in the SmackDown World Cup. Somehow I had completely forgotten that he was of Pakistani heritage. Always good to see the green and white colors get some representation on the global stage of professional wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If we’re talking big names, I can see a match layout where these could work better:

Austin vs Orton

Reigns vs Austin - I know the chief has other plans but I could see this working

Honestly I hope he doesn't do another match. That match with Owens was the perfect last match that he could have hoped for at this age. I know WWE loves nothing more than the chasing mighty dollar but I think some times they should just leave well enough alone.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Definitely one of the better episodes of SmackDown in recent weeks today. I'm glad my prediction panned out completely. KO is in and I must say I am extremely excited for this WarGames match now. Mustafa Ali and Ricochet had a very entertaining match. The Bray-LA Knight segment was just amazing television. And on top of that, we had no Death Row or Lucha Suits on the show either. I was optimistic that there wouldn't be no New Day on the show either but I guess you can't have everything.